Want some more Japanese tank content? Check out my newest video over on my gaming channel where I play some Japanese tanks in War Thunder: th-cam.com/video/54PS3zxG6P0/w-d-xo.html
@@panzerlite8108 Durring the WW2 Czechs has made a project of medium tank called T-25. It was never build as Germans had no interest in it. But the autoloading gun, which was designed for it (Skoda A18), was built after the war and tested by mounting it to one of the Tigers Germans were so generous to leave behind.
the Chi-To SP was most likely made as it is for tech tree homogenous gameplay style as if the Ka-To was used if would have the only open top turreted in the whole line
When I first heard Chi-To SP, I thought of the vehicle from WT. But that's the Chi-Ha LG, I think. So, they could have TWO open top turreted vehicles in the line. ;)
@@jwenting Or possibly a second branch for turreted TDs with the Na-To and Ka-To, and the Komatsu B78 105GSR. And whatever fictional vehicle Wargaming might invent to fill Tier 10 (probably a Type 61 hull with fictional "120GSR" turret). And the Chi-Ha Long Gun could be the premium turreted TD.
The Japanese TDs really aren't that bad looking at it, tier 8 to 10 kinda stretch it a lot though. But the Tier 5 and 6 TDs were pretty good, especially with Tier 5 actually existing as it is depicted in game. Honestly I think Tier 3 to 7 is the best range of tiers for historical tanks with Tiers one and two being filled by concepts, early interwar prototypes, or lighter tanks that were outdated by WW2. Tier 8 has hit or miss tanks depending on the nation, and Tier 9 and 10 are pretty much they either actually existed or were complete fabrications by Wargaming.
I recall Jingles featured a replay about a month ago with the main player in a Ho-Ni III, and he was railing on it about being "a 3rd version of a tank that didn't exist." I am pleased you managed to correct that.
I think the reason for Wargaming being more on the fiction side now, is that all the major tanks are already in World of Tanks. But it is still a shame they have to do it like they now are.
A little disappointed the Japanese TD line was added well after Wargaming ditched low tier TDs, would've been neat to see the Type 5 Ho-Ru in the game. Very little documentation on it exists much like the Ho-Ris but that hasn't stopped Wargaming before, and it's not stopping them now.
These aren't all brand new, the tier 7-10 tanks have been in blitz for years now, but the first two are both new and exclusive to pc afaik. The only difference in the trees is their layout, with the type 2 being tier 9 and type 1 tier 10. You should also probably cover the polish heavy tanks now that they've been out for a while, I personally think that the first two (40/45tp habicha) are the most realistic designs within their line while the rest are mainly fictional.
If I'm not wrong there was some simple drawings for tier VII 45TP Habicha, and I saw somewhere drawing of the turret for 53TP Markowskiego, 50TP Tyszkiewicza and 60TP Lewandowskiego from what I found are completely fictional speaking about design, but there were some assumptions made, for example gun caliber, frontal amour thickness and engine power.
@@anotheryoutubeidiot8785 I wouldn't be that sure about that, Polish community digged everywhere just to find something, but at the same time it's not impossible that somebody just made up most of the data, and even WG got rolled out.
Good job exposing these Fakies of The Rising Sun, Cone. Ever try to do a video on Helghast tanks from the Killzone games? I'd reckon you'll be interested as they are reasonably practical for sci-fi war tech and have some historical basis (the hovertanks of "Killzone" were advanced designs meant to enable the Helghast to quickly defeat the Vektans but those tanks and the hover APCs as well were surprisingly easy to take out - unconfirmed reports from the field suggested they could be destroyed easily by mere hand grenades (a rather clever way of saying I personally pulled it off by playing the original PS2 game - I was blowing up Helghast armour by lobbing hand grenades at them. Three grenades will take out a Helghast tank, while four will wipe an APC 😊), while the Helghast by the time of the war coming to their planet were using the WW2 German approach of modifying their mining vehicles into improv tanks Marder-class-style by giving them missile launchers) & making them appealing for your channel.
I agree with you that wargaming doesn't care about reality any more,I mean they put G.I. joe tanks in there that no way could exist,like the gi Joe scout tank with a 4 barreled weapon system,there would be no room for ammunition,engine,fuel,radio and the crew,yeah they are beyond caring since they moved out of Belarus,where they tried to keep it as real as possible
Huh, you said the Ji-Ro used the Type 14 105mm, while in War Thunder they said it's the 1898 Schneider-Canet 120mm (whatever that means), meanwhile Taki wrote on his website that it's an obsolete, yet unknown 10cm. Personally I believe it's a 120mm custom-order derivative of the Canon de 100 mm mle 1891, but I can't say for sure. It might even be a Type 41 12cm/40, a.k.a Japanese-made QF 4.7-inch.
The 120mm Model 1898 (actually 1897 but okay) is a French older field gun made by the French company Schneider-Canet, which seems an odd choice for a Japanese vehicle. I've never found information regarding that particular gun sale to Japan, but maybe I was missing something
The entire czech heavy line is fake, they took mid cold war soviet tanks and made "possible guesses" into what they would have been had they been designed as heavy tanks. vz55's turret is based on the t-62m with a raised cupola. the vz 51 has a stock turret based on the t-55 while its top turret is a t-55am turret with an elongated back, presumably to make room for the autoloader(on pc, at least). The skoda t56 is a n interesting spin on the early t-54 mod 1947 with the gunner sight from later models also slapped on. The tnh 105/1000, meanwhile, maybe a one of the variants for the tvp project that ckd made, or was a spin based on the tvp vtu(which is also part of the same project). Or it was a design by praga, also in the same TVP project and was designsted TNH tA(no clue what it means)
Hey can you look at the tanks and "mobile tanks" of Mobile Suit Gundam. For example the Type 61 mbt, Zaku Tank, Hldolfr, Guntank and Assault Guntank of the UC Gundam timeline. The game Gundam Battle Operation 2 has them.
The Japanese tank destroyers was taken from the blitz property. The tanks previously exist in blitz, but they placed it in the console version, with some changes. You should add the blitz version as well. Sad you didn't include it
@@anotheryoutubeidiot8785 probably, but it wouldn't hurt though if he included it. Although it's up to him to do it or not, I think he hasn't yet look on the origin of these tanks. Which is unfortunate.
@@anotheryoutubeidiot8785 also he didn't talk about the armour thickness and how accurate it is, or even another components like the engine placement and crew layout. I think this video is too short tbh
Another one is Tier 8 Premium Ka-Ri WG originally call it Ho-To, but change it when player tell them there is already real tank with the same name I think they name it like that, because WG made it with Chi-To chasis
They did have something that vaguely approximated historically accurate loadouts and team compositions. It was called "Historical Battles", was a separate game mode, and was a collosal failure, because the teams were hopelessly unbalanced and after a while even getting a game going was difficult, because nobody wanted to be on the shit side (which to my memory was usually anything other than USSR).
Was USSR really that good? I recall that Germans usually had it better than the guys they fight. Fighting Jagdtigers and quick loading Tiger Is in T-34-85s and IS2s was pretty nasty.
@@shellshockedgerman3947 It was a long time ago, so I don't have very clear memories of those times. Might've been different nations being favoured, but I do recall it being very one sided regardless.
No no it was low tier UK vs Germany. UK got Matilda and valentines vs early German Panzer 4s and 3s. Oh yeah and you got historical ammo loadouts too so if you played the panzer 4 you would have like 80% HE 15% AP and 5% HEAT. Good luck penning ANYTHING.
I think they should just add a tag system for historical and finctional, like what Warthunder have for skin In Warthunder every skin have a tag telling players that the skin is historical, semi historical or finctional Although Gaijin also mess up the tag system by labeling most skin semi historical which mean nothing, but I think the system itself is good
Fun Fact: The Japanese TD were first introduced in Worlds of Tanks Blitz and its a Underrated Tank Unlike in PC the WoTB Jap TDs doesnt have a full line like in the game you begin with the Chi To SPG in Tier VII and you make it to the Last 3 Ho Ri The Ho Ri III being the Tier X instead of the Ferdinand looking one Its considered to be Underrated in WoTB cause they didn't explain how Shell normalization work but seriously the Premium shell of the Ho-Ri can butter through a Maus and has a very troll armor which is frustrating when fighting it from long range
I mean the armor is troll and that, but the amount of penetration and reload the Ho-ri III (ferdinand looking one) has in blitz is technically crazy, having more premium pen than a JGe100. Sadly the reality, for me, is that the tank is just a troll armor glass canon.
@@sekai2914 its really a Hit or miss when your playing it Offensively Your basically going to be a FV 183 which heavily relies on your team to make those enemies pop out of their hiding spots However in a Defense.... Ohoho you gonna have much fun because of the Reload of the Ho Ri
not all the time, I actually use this thing as a close quarters support occasionally and it's so funny to see people so confused why a Ho-Ri III is able to bully a few mediums in 10 seconds flat
You can build some vehicles as close to history as possible for Example the more well know tanks like Shermans, Tigers, Panthers etc. But then they would just be bad at the game or at least much more difficult to play.
The japanese tank destroyers already existed on world of tanks blitz, funny since you mentioned about the japanese heavy tank line on blitz, anyway the differences that i noticed between pc and blitz is that the tier 7 chi-to sp is kinda named weird since the blitz version it's called chi-to SPG (meaning Self Propelled Gun), also the tier 10 and 9 were switched, it kinda irritates me since the tier 9 (on blitz it's the tier 10 ho-ri type 3) the tank could fit a more bigger gun than the tier 10 ho-ri 3
I played the World of Tanks Blitz versions of the Ho-Ri and all of them are given an odd designation the Jagdtiger Style Fighting compartment is called the Type 1 the Angular Rear Mount is called the Type 2 and the Ferdinand/Elefant Style compartment is called the Type 3 honestly seeing them mount the 149mm Canon on the tier 9 and 10 has to be the most internally difficult concerning the Breach of each of the guns and the recoil it would've handled also the Tier 8 using the 127mm also sounds dumb too despite the gun being real too, the breach would've made it cramp too
@@johnnymigouel7228 I mean yeah, but wasn't it that the tier 9 had troll armor? the tier 9 in blitz (WotPC tier 10) as far as I know is slower than the tier 10 (tier 9 in PC) the traverse is Worse and the velocity it's too unless they changed the values there. Also, is the Tier 10 in WoT PC penentration the same as blitz?
Do we not have evidence that the Ji-Ro was built as a prototype and tested although did not meet expectations but we do not have pictures of it?🤔 also the "Chi-To SP" is kinda real, it's more or less "Chi-Ri Casemate" version which was based on the late Chi-Ri that had a lot in common with Chi-To ? 🤨 the fully fake one is T8 premium "Ka-Ri"...
most of the tanks in WOT re fantasy tanks designed on a napkin after a few drinks in a bar in Mink; even that they anounce the game as a "realistic tank game" it has nothing to do with real tanks or real physics adding to that theres a 25% rng for penetration and damage, the game is more like a ground armored combat
Man Wargaming shoulda have added a feature where player's can design tanks using modules, turrets, hulls, tracks, and cannons since wargaming already make fictional tanks, tanks that never existed, slapping cannons on tanks that aren't even proposed for it, cannons that defeats the purpose of the tank, engines that wasn't meant to be mounted, making tanks from a paragraph, making up stats for tanks where it's records of it's armor and performance specification Aren't known, putting random turrets on tanks, incorrect classifcation for tanks, autoloader on tanks that never was designed to have one, and making some inaccurate historical info for tanks and just passing it off as historically accurate
I feel like a lot of this could be explained by adding fake in game lore, like at the start of the fictional war in game, Japan swapped out the 105 for a 149 and there would be little confusion over what's going on. Doesn't even have to be a smartly named war, could just be WW12 or the Global Revolution or something
Hey @ConeOfArk, I love your content but Miss your historical stuff, your warthunder video are are nice but I love just hearing the long stories of old prototypes
While there were three different designs for the Ho-Ri but there was no Ho-Ri III ! The Ho-Ri with rear superstructure that resembled the Elephant tank destroyer were both the Ho-Ri I but they existed in different configurations namely the first version that existed as mockup was purposed with sloped armor, while the second version was to remove the sloped armor to keep the hull mounted 37 mm gun just like the Chi-Ri. The Ho-Ri II, the selected variant for mass-production resembled the Jagdtiger tank destroyer with superstructure placed in the center, it would not have sloped armor because they wanted to keep the 37mm for secondary armament, it would also be equipped with twin 20mm Type 4 AA gun mounted on the back above the engine deck similar to how the MG-42 is mounted on the engine deck of Jagdtiger. Ho-Ri I Alt.1 = rear mounted casemate with sloped armor. Ho-Ri I Alt.2 = rear mounted casemate without sloped armor and equipped with hull mounted type 1 3,7cm gun. Ho-Ri II = center mounted casemate without sloped armor, equipped with hull mounted type 1 3.7 cm gun and a twin type 4 20mm AA gun. Btw it is weird that none of the Ho-Ri in WoT got access to the historical Type 5 10cm gun that was developed just for the Ho-Ri project, not even as a stock gun, really WeeGee ? Regarding why they didn't bother with the Ka-To is probably because they wanted this as a heavy TD branch so that is why not even the real vehicle like Na-To is in the TT because it is a soft skinned TD just like the Ka-To, but maybe they could be added in a altenative TD branch ? but you can bet that they might be added them as premium instead cuz ''i love money !'' ....
One thing that I loved when I played WoT were realistic battles events made by the community. You basically made a predetermined layout of vehicles based on how many tanks each army had at X time, and you could only use them with realistic modules. I recall playing a match with a Panther, where the team was 1 Tiger, 3 Panthers and a mix of Pz IV (modules based on the ausf. G) and StuG III G. It was usually unbalanced, given how WoT works, but still funny.
The Chi-To SP was chosen largely because it was a tier VII they could port from World of Tanks Blitz, and they picked it there because there it is the first tank in the line, coming after the tier VI Chi-To.
I think with WoT they know that they lean more towards arcade rather than sim so it's harder to justify the extra effort of trying to provide a historically accurate product. That sort of thing is more likely to be done by War Thunder since being (somewhat) historically accurate is something they have pushed harder on.
The issue is not that they have made up tanks but that they try to pass them off as real life designs when they are completely made up. If they just said "This is a concept tank that we designed that we believe could had been an evolution of this tank" or something along those lines then it would all be fine. But what they are doing now is more tricking people into believing that some of these made up tanks existed. I believe that a lot of people get interested in tanks because of games like War thunder and WoT and having them get inaccurate information passed on as real is not the best way to start learning about tanks.
As long as someone has made a concept drawing or a written description, it's historical enough. And for a game like WoT, sure, why not? It would be very boring sticking only with stuff that was actually built or even worse, only those taken into active service.
@@Fretti90 No, that's the thing, they almost never take something that is "COMPLETELY made up", they're just very free in how they interpret stuff that might have a single halffinished drawing or maybe a vague "how about this" PM sent to a boss somewhere sometime and never taken further. Those are not made up, they're fictional in STATS, not in existance, because someone did think them up.
@@DIREWOLFx75 warhammer tanks are completely fictional, most of their premiums have only a loose grasp on real tanks, and half of them are only realistic in naming, they have an entire tech tree branches that are completely made up, as well as a batch of premiums that are all their own creations. TLDR: wargaming has and will continue making fake tanks for as long as their game makes money.
@@DIREWOLFx75 So i made a pretty long reply on the matter but when i watched the clip again i think Cone really sums up my feelings on the matter pretty well at 5:40 so watch that again to see how i feel about it. I will leave the "reply" at the bottom if you want to read it. "As long as someone has made a concept drawing or a written description, it's historical enough." - But look at the Tier 9 and Tier 10 in the video. As far as i understand it, no plans were made or designed for the Ho-ri to mount those guns with the Tier 10 version not even having a gun that existed. Thats not historical, thats just made up. "And for a game like WoT, sure, why not? It would be very boring sticking only with stuff that was actually built or even worse, only those taken into active service. " - That is fine, its their game they can do what they want. But make it clear in the descriptions that its a fictional tank so that people do not believe that these were built or designed. Because the way they phrase it in the descriptions it make it sound like there is evidence for a lot of these designs. Watch Cone's video on Japanese tanks in WoT Blitz, he sums it up well there as well on how they make it seem like many of their fictional designs existed. I just want to make it clear, i have no issue with the tanks being fictional or just "a vague pm to a boss", i would just want them to be absolutely clear in the descriptions that "There is little to no evidence that this existed" or "This is a 'what if' that we made up based off of..." etc.
WOT Arty Noobs covered all the Japanese Self Propelled Guns back in 2016/2017 in the hope that Wargaming would introduce them as Arty. Always the Bridesmaid and never the Bride, Wargaming let us down by making them into tank destroyers instead of the SPGs they were supposed to be.
At this rate of making up things, I've been wondering why they didn't make Potei-To, Tomei-To, Buri-To and much more. I'd say it's a missed opportunity.
Problem is to design tank that slso competitive in the game While warthunder for ww2, to early cold war ddint have this issue because you can one hit one kill so easily. In WoT its diffrent you need to make tank that have HP to trade with other tank soo MOSTLY ALL HISTORICAL ASPECT WILL BE THROWED OFF WINDOW
I don't see what's so wrong about having a description like "This is a concept for a self propelled gun using the (REAL GUN) on the chassis of the (REAL TANK) While this combination never existed, plans were drawn for a vehicle of this broad design"
Not that it matters now but in that Sherman Hunter video, anything coming from the Sensha Blog/ Seon Eun-Ae/ Mai_Waffentrager should be securitized. They have made some false claims about where they get the information regarding Japanese tanks from. A lot of the information, pictures, and articles they pass as their own research comes from the Japan Center for Asian Historical Records or JACAR.
Well World of Tanks is known to be a pay to win with completely faked Tanks that weren't even a concept like war thunder with the American T-34, T-29 and many other Tanks and like Gaijin did with the Tiger 10.5 which is a gun never mounted on a tiger 2H because the gun itself is massive to fit inside of a turret
Not gonna lie, really wish War Thunder would add the rest of the Japanese TD. Only if the data parts of the vehicle is available, since they already add the the Wooden mockup variant. Would like to CAS it into submission with 5 ton bomb But hey it's Gaijin, so it's top tier first policy
Have NOT played a single second of "World of Tanks" or "War Thunder" or whatever the most popular game is out there now. I build plastic model kits of armored vehicles and have noticed the influx of various designs of vehicles - regardless of country - onto the plastic model building industry. Must admit, plenty of vehicles that have NEVER seen before, so whenever I dust off all my reference materials trying to re-educate myself on some of these vehicles, am finding out that they do not nor ever existed!! Get it - nice to see the "paper panzers" or those very rare vehicles and such in scale plastic and are fun to build, as long as there is some type of evidence that they existed or were on the drawing board, but some of these other vehicles..... So, now I know WHY there are a plethora of make-believe vehicles suddenly flooding the plastic model building market - silly games are dictating now. Well, in defense of these silly games - at least they are creating something interesting to try and learn about and build.
played em all...if you've got the german casemate td line ground out then I wouldn't bother....bit better speed and better reload on t9,10 big guns is about it really....
Can we count on new British medium wheeled tanks introduced in WoT in Fake Tank Friday? Most of vehicles are real, but wonder how much they made up, e.g. the way how they turn
I also like playing the tanks in their historical configuration. Typically I can achieve this with a few minutes on Google and then mounting the appropriate components. The game is of course about balance and arcade-like fun. So I understand that the historical components may not be the most powerful components (typically the real engine is the base engine).
Wargaming love to take the piss out of players , make the new lines fast and manoeuvrable , give them fantasy guns but keep the old lines like the UK and USA TD's slow and often hideously outclassed
why make realistic tanks when you can make a fake premium tanks and get quick money? I hate the WG scum so much... stopped playing 2 years ago and never felt better about my choice
With WoT being such an offering of material - have you thought about exploring tanks they havent included yet? ... If there is any left in the relevant timescales!
I think the Japanese army would of chosen development of tank destroyer that had turret like an up gun Chi Ri. Because in combat a casemate tank might get bogged in sand or stuck in thick jungle making it’s gun useless because there are no large open plans like Europe in pacific island warfare. This is why the Japanese stuck sticking with small to medium tanks because of logistics
Want some more Japanese tank content? Check out my newest video over on my gaming channel where I play some Japanese tanks in War Thunder: th-cam.com/video/54PS3zxG6P0/w-d-xo.html
Hey cone, how bout looking to the American T110 designs? Yes the E3, E4 and E5 of WoT's.
the delete post image thing label the vehicle as Ho RI-I
The japanese TD's were first introduced in wotb 3 years ago
isn't Ka-To just bigger Na-To?
@@lonemarkkingoftypos3722 don't forget T110HT (E6) from tank company,T110e5 with slope frontal armor and better engine similar to M48 engine
could be definitely interesting to also look into czechoslovak heavies and how real those are
That would be a short look.
As real as dirty napkins they were drawn on as a joke
There was never heavy tank program in Czechoslovakia, so its all fake. Only heavy tank we "developed" was Tiger with 75mm autoloading gun.
@@Makrelacz |Tell me more about that Tiger please
@@panzerlite8108 Durring the WW2 Czechs has made a project of medium tank called T-25. It was never build as Germans had no interest in it. But the autoloading gun, which was designed for it (Skoda A18), was built after the war and tested by mounting it to one of the Tigers Germans were so generous to leave behind.
the Chi-To SP was most likely made as it is for tech tree homogenous gameplay style as if the Ka-To was used if would have the only open top turreted in the whole line
I see a premium Ka-To in the future... $100
When I first heard Chi-To SP, I thought of the vehicle from WT. But that's the Chi-Ha LG, I think. So, they could have TWO open top turreted vehicles in the line. ;)
Same for the guns I guess, 105mm at T10 isn't really something most ppl would enjoy.
@@Yautah It would have to have incredible handling stats and a really quick reload for a 105 on an open top TD to be worth it at 10
@@jwenting Or possibly a second branch for turreted TDs with the Na-To and Ka-To, and the Komatsu B78 105GSR. And whatever fictional vehicle Wargaming might invent to fill Tier 10 (probably a Type 61 hull with fictional "120GSR" turret). And the Chi-Ha Long Gun could be the premium turreted TD.
the Chi-To is so Obviously fake they couldl've used the Na-To and I would've been accepting of it
They should have given it a bright orange skin.
If they use Na-To, it's gonna one of the most painful vehicle to play in the game
@@Kethploy maybe Na-To will be comfortable at 3-4 tier
cheeto
Flamen hot chi-to
The Japanese TDs really aren't that bad looking at it, tier 8 to 10 kinda stretch it a lot though. But the Tier 5 and 6 TDs were pretty good, especially with Tier 5 actually existing as it is depicted in game.
Honestly I think Tier 3 to 7 is the best range of tiers for historical tanks with Tiers one and two being filled by concepts, early interwar prototypes, or lighter tanks that were outdated by WW2. Tier 8 has hit or miss tanks depending on the nation, and Tier 9 and 10 are pretty much they either actually existed or were complete fabrications by Wargaming.
I recall Jingles featured a replay about a month ago with the main player in a Ho-Ni III, and he was railing on it about being "a 3rd version of a tank that didn't exist." I am pleased you managed to correct that.
I like jingles but he does make some silly mistakes in his videos from time to time. Iirc he called the Maus fake in one
He does admit he’s crap, bless him.
I think the reason for Wargaming being more on the fiction side now, is that all the major tanks are already in World of Tanks. But it is still a shame they have to do it like they now are.
It really isn't a shame. All of their worldbuilding and event lore is very alt history/ scifi/ supernatural.
Some of us want to see some concept design in action, it's being dissed by "realistic" players.
WoT never been realistic, never been
@@zairukoonxom4797 and there is nothing wrong about it
I'm not sure what you were expecting of a game where you've always been able to get kills by jumping on top of another tank
@@jimjamauto and there is nothing wrong with it too
A little disappointed the Japanese TD line was added well after Wargaming ditched low tier TDs, would've been neat to see the Type 5 Ho-Ru in the game. Very little documentation on it exists much like the Ho-Ris but that hasn't stopped Wargaming before, and it's not stopping them now.
They'll be adding more soon
The funniest thing about this tech tree is actually not the tanks, but their ammo
sPeCiAl aP rOuNdS
These aren't all brand new, the tier 7-10 tanks have been in blitz for years now, but the first two are both new and exclusive to pc afaik. The only difference in the trees is their layout, with the type 2 being tier 9 and type 1 tier 10.
You should also probably cover the polish heavy tanks now that they've been out for a while, I personally think that the first two (40/45tp habicha) are the most realistic designs within their line while the rest are mainly fictional.
If I'm not wrong there was some simple drawings for tier VII 45TP Habicha, and I saw somewhere drawing of the turret for 53TP Markowskiego, 50TP Tyszkiewicza and 60TP Lewandowskiego from what I found are completely fictional speaking about design, but there were some assumptions made, for example gun caliber, frontal amour thickness and engine power.
@@cikuI00 probably made by wargaming, if I'm not mistaken they tend to make fake blueprints for their fake tanks to tease them sometimes
@@anotheryoutubeidiot8785 I wouldn't be that sure about that, Polish community digged everywhere just to find something, but at the same time it's not impossible that somebody just made up most of the data, and even WG got rolled out.
Huh. More historically accurate than I was expecting.
Some of the japanese destroyers were already existing in World of Tanks Blitz in a very simillar line
Japan tanks ahh yes those things that tank tank
Good job exposing these Fakies of The Rising Sun, Cone.
Ever try to do a video on Helghast tanks from the Killzone games? I'd reckon you'll be interested as they are reasonably practical for sci-fi war tech and have some historical basis (the hovertanks of "Killzone" were advanced designs meant to enable the Helghast to quickly defeat the Vektans but those tanks and the hover APCs as well were surprisingly easy to take out - unconfirmed reports from the field suggested they could be destroyed easily by mere hand grenades (a rather clever way of saying I personally pulled it off by playing the original PS2 game - I was blowing up Helghast armour by lobbing hand grenades at them. Three grenades will take out a Helghast tank, while four will wipe an APC 😊), while the Helghast by the time of the war coming to their planet were using the WW2 German approach of modifying their mining vehicles into improv tanks Marder-class-style by giving them missile launchers) & making them appealing for your channel.
i don't mind fake tanks in world of tanks as long as they are semi balanced aka not Waffle E100s
I once again kindly request looking at the Ice Spitter, Sonic Tank, and Kharkov Rampager from War Front Turning Point
I agree with you that wargaming doesn't care about reality any more,I mean they put G.I. joe tanks in there that no way could exist,like the gi Joe scout tank with a 4 barreled weapon system,there would be no room for ammunition,engine,fuel,radio and the crew,yeah they are beyond caring since they moved out of Belarus,where they tried to keep it as real as possible
Huh, you said the Ji-Ro used the Type 14 105mm, while in War Thunder they said it's the 1898 Schneider-Canet 120mm (whatever that means), meanwhile Taki wrote on his website that it's an obsolete, yet unknown 10cm. Personally I believe it's a 120mm custom-order derivative of the Canon de 100 mm mle 1891, but I can't say for sure. It might even be a Type 41 12cm/40, a.k.a Japanese-made QF 4.7-inch.
The 120mm Model 1898 (actually 1897 but okay) is a French older field gun made by the French company Schneider-Canet, which seems an odd choice for a Japanese vehicle. I've never found information regarding that particular gun sale to Japan, but maybe I was missing something
Can you analyze Italian tank destroyers from World of Tanks next?
they are real, at least some of them. the semovente was on par with the stug and saw action.
After tier 7 they aren't real
@@adanenedary7350 Wait, so the tier 7 is?😮😮😮 I thought the 7 to 10 were all fabrications.
tier 5 6 real and then rest are fabricated from mbt-70 lolz
I hope you could make one about the new Czech heavy tanks in World of Tanks Blitz
The entire czech heavy line is fake, they took mid cold war soviet tanks and made "possible guesses" into what they would have been had they been designed as heavy tanks.
vz55's turret is based on the t-62m with a raised cupola. the vz 51 has a stock turret based on the t-55 while its top turret is a t-55am turret with an elongated back, presumably to make room for the autoloader(on pc, at least). The skoda t56 is a n interesting spin on the early t-54 mod 1947 with the gunner sight from later models also slapped on.
The tnh 105/1000, meanwhile, maybe a one of the variants for the tvp project that ckd made, or was a spin based on the tvp vtu(which is also part of the same project). Or it was a design by praga, also in the same TVP project and was designsted TNH tA(no clue what it means)
@@nvduceii yoo thanks for all this. I already thought they were fake, but this explains a lot
Plus the czech heavy tanks also existed on pc even before blitz
@@Chris.K.M so did the Japanese TDS in WoTB..
@veliijzendoorn5976 yeah that was strange
Hey can you look at the tanks and "mobile tanks" of Mobile Suit Gundam. For example the Type 61 mbt, Zaku Tank, Hldolfr, Guntank and Assault Guntank of the UC Gundam timeline. The game Gundam Battle Operation 2 has them.
New Jap TDS? This Guys was Olds Asf in WOT Blitz
Thank you for sharing your research!
The Japanese tank destroyers was taken from the blitz property. The tanks previously exist in blitz, but they placed it in the console version, with some changes.
You should add the blitz version as well. Sad you didn't include it
Blitzs Japanese tds start at tier 7, so it would've been a much shorter video if he had used that tree
@@anotheryoutubeidiot8785 "included it as well" means aside from the console version I asked him to mention the blitz version in the video.
@@SonaNerikov he already covered them, it's the exact same tanks from tier 7 onwards with only a minor difference of two tanks swapping places
@@anotheryoutubeidiot8785 probably, but it wouldn't hurt though if he included it. Although it's up to him to do it or not, I think he hasn't yet look on the origin of these tanks. Which is unfortunate.
@@anotheryoutubeidiot8785 also he didn't talk about the armour thickness and how accurate it is, or even another components like the engine placement and crew layout. I think this video is too short tbh
"New" WoT blitz TDs ported to normal wot
Another one is Tier 8 Premium Ka-Ri
WG originally call it Ho-To, but change it when player tell them there is already real tank with the same name
I think they name it like that, because WG made it with Chi-To chasis
I actually laughed when I saw how cartoonishly large that gun is on the Ho-ri, lmao
They did have something that vaguely approximated historically accurate loadouts and team compositions.
It was called "Historical Battles", was a separate game mode, and was a collosal failure, because the teams were hopelessly unbalanced and after a while even getting a game going was difficult, because nobody wanted to be on the shit side (which to my memory was usually anything other than USSR).
Was USSR really that good? I recall that Germans usually had it better than the guys they fight. Fighting Jagdtigers and quick loading Tiger Is in T-34-85s and IS2s was pretty nasty.
@@shellshockedgerman3947 It was a long time ago, so I don't have very clear memories of those times. Might've been different nations being favoured, but I do recall it being very one sided regardless.
No no it was low tier UK vs Germany. UK got Matilda and valentines vs early German Panzer 4s and 3s. Oh yeah and you got historical ammo loadouts too so if you played the panzer 4 you would have like 80% HE 15% AP and 5% HEAT. Good luck penning ANYTHING.
I think they should just add a tag system for historical and finctional, like what Warthunder have for skin
In Warthunder every skin have a tag telling players that the skin is historical, semi historical or finctional
Although Gaijin also mess up the tag system by labeling most skin semi historical which mean nothing, but I think the system itself is good
I love how the Japanese TDs are more real than the Chinese TDs.
Actually, the first appearance of this in Wargamming was in WOT Blitz with a more realistic (Ho Ri Type I,ll,lll) Line, just like the Yoh line
Fun Fact: The Japanese TD were first introduced in Worlds of Tanks Blitz and its a Underrated Tank
Unlike in PC the WoTB Jap TDs doesnt have a full line like in the game you begin with the Chi To SPG in Tier VII and you make it to the Last 3 Ho Ri
The Ho Ri III being the Tier X instead of the Ferdinand looking one
Its considered to be Underrated in WoTB cause they didn't explain how Shell normalization work but seriously the Premium shell of the Ho-Ri can butter through a Maus and has a very troll armor which is frustrating when fighting it from long range
I mean the armor is troll and that, but the amount of penetration and reload the Ho-ri III (ferdinand looking one) has in blitz is technically crazy, having more premium pen than a JGe100.
Sadly the reality, for me, is that the tank is just a troll armor glass canon.
@@sekai2914 its really a Hit or miss when your playing it Offensively
Your basically going to be a FV 183 which heavily relies on your team to make those enemies pop out of their hiding spots
However in a Defense.... Ohoho you gonna have much fun because of the Reload of the Ho Ri
not all the time, I actually use this thing as a close quarters support occasionally and it's so funny to see people so confused why a Ho-Ri III is able to bully a few mediums in 10 seconds flat
I believe Mai Waffentrager posted on reddit awhile back a blueprint/drawing? of the Chi-To SPG
Some kid somewhere makes a crayon drawing of something that resembles a vehicle. WOT "Hmm new tank line based on this!"
Can u make a fake tank friday on the japanese super heavts in WoT also? plz
You can build some vehicles as close to history as possible for Example the more well know tanks like Shermans, Tigers, Panthers etc. But then they would just be bad at the game or at least much more difficult to play.
Bro just talked about the realism of Wargaming, while tanks in WoTB can almost fly. 💀
The japanese tank destroyers already existed on world of tanks blitz, funny since you mentioned about the japanese heavy tank line on blitz, anyway the differences that i noticed between pc and blitz is that the tier 7 chi-to sp is kinda named weird since the blitz version it's called chi-to SPG (meaning Self Propelled Gun), also the tier 10 and 9 were switched, it kinda irritates me since the tier 9 (on blitz it's the tier 10 ho-ri type 3) the tank could fit a more bigger gun than the tier 10 ho-ri 3
I played the World of Tanks Blitz versions of the Ho-Ri and all of them are given an odd designation
the Jagdtiger Style Fighting compartment is called the Type 1
the Angular Rear Mount is called the Type 2
and the Ferdinand/Elefant Style compartment is called the Type 3
honestly seeing them mount the 149mm Canon on the tier 9 and 10 has to be the most internally difficult concerning the Breach of each of the guns and the recoil it would've handled also the Tier 8 using the 127mm also sounds dumb too despite the gun being real too, the breach would've made it cramp too
Alright the KV6 is the most famous tank for being fake
Ho-Ri reminds me of that infamous person, going far as providing forged documents to get the idea through...and Warthunder falling for it.
You forgot the Type 5 Ka-Ri the premium one
I mean, technically Japanese TD's are originally from World of Tanks Blitz and I don't know why they switched the tier 9 and tier 10 tanks.
The armour layout on the wotpc tier 10 is better than that of the wotb tier 10 so they switched them
@@johnnymigouel7228 I mean yeah, but wasn't it that the tier 9 had troll armor?
the tier 9 in blitz (WotPC tier 10) as far as I know is slower than the tier 10 (tier 9 in PC) the traverse is Worse and the velocity it's too unless they changed the values there. Also, is the Tier 10 in WoT PC penentration the same as blitz?
Fun fact: in blitz the hori 1 is the tier x and hori 3 is ix and they have the gun swapped
Great video! How about making one covering all German fake designs?
The Ho-Ris also have way more hull armour in game compared to the Chi-Ri. Would up armouring the casemate TD's hulls been a realistic possibility?
Well at least Wargaming acknowledges that the Japanese tree exists.
You forgot the tier 8 premium with an autoloader equipped 20 cm cannon called the Ho-Ri-Shet
Do we not have evidence that the Ji-Ro was built as a prototype and tested although did not meet expectations but we do not have pictures of it?🤔
also the "Chi-To SP" is kinda real, it's more or less "Chi-Ri Casemate" version which was based on the late Chi-Ri that had a lot in common with Chi-To ? 🤨
the fully fake one is T8 premium "Ka-Ri"...
most of the tanks in WOT re fantasy tanks designed on a napkin after a few drinks in a bar in Mink; even that they anounce the game as a "realistic tank game" it has nothing to do with real tanks or real physics adding to that theres a 25% rng for penetration and damage, the game is more like a ground armored combat
Throw in noob players like yourself and your points are more valid
Can you do italian TDs? Theyre obviously fake but maybe they took inspiration from some blueprint designs
Fake Tank Friday! Fake Tank Friday! Fake Tank Friday!
you really dont get world of tanks. Its not a historical game, i could care less about historical facts.
“new”
Wot blitz : y are we here just to suffer
Man Wargaming shoulda have added a feature where player's can design tanks using modules, turrets, hulls, tracks, and cannons since wargaming already make fictional tanks, tanks that never existed, slapping cannons on tanks that aren't even proposed for it, cannons that defeats the purpose of the tank, engines that wasn't meant to be mounted, making tanks from a paragraph, making up stats for tanks where it's records of it's armor and performance specification Aren't known, putting random turrets on tanks, incorrect classifcation for tanks, autoloader on tanks that never was designed to have one, and making some inaccurate historical info for tanks and just passing it off as historically accurate
Since you did a video on the AAT I assume Syfy is allowed so I want you to check out the mammoth tank from command and conquer
The prototype was pushed into a lake, so we built another prototype which burned down, got bombed, and then fell into the lake.
"No you can't go look for it in the lake which we pushed it into"
基本上， WOT的坦克60%都是"完全的造假"連製造計畫都沒有，藍圖也沒有，改造計畫也沒有，就依據研發報告說:希望OOXX能夠更好，就直接打造出來不存在的東西賣
I feel like a lot of this could be explained by adding fake in game lore, like at the start of the fictional war in game, Japan swapped out the 105 for a 149 and there would be little confusion over what's going on. Doesn't even have to be a smartly named war, could just be WW12 or the Global Revolution or something
You should look at some of the british tank destroyers. The excalibur is pretty cool
Hey @ConeOfArk, I love your content but Miss your historical stuff, your warthunder video are are nice but I love just hearing the long stories of old prototypes
While there were three different designs for the Ho-Ri but there was no Ho-Ri III !
The Ho-Ri with rear superstructure that resembled the Elephant tank destroyer were both the Ho-Ri I but they existed in different configurations namely the first version that existed as mockup was purposed with sloped armor, while the second version was to remove the sloped armor to keep the hull mounted 37 mm gun just like the Chi-Ri.
The Ho-Ri II, the selected variant for mass-production resembled the Jagdtiger tank destroyer with superstructure placed in the center, it would not have sloped armor because they wanted to keep the 37mm for secondary armament, it would also be equipped with twin 20mm Type 4 AA gun mounted on the back above the engine deck similar to how the MG-42 is mounted on the engine deck of Jagdtiger.
Ho-Ri I Alt.1 = rear mounted casemate with sloped armor.
Ho-Ri I Alt.2 = rear mounted casemate without sloped armor and equipped with hull mounted type 1 3,7cm gun.
Ho-Ri II = center mounted casemate without sloped armor, equipped with hull mounted type 1 3.7 cm gun and a twin type 4 20mm AA gun.
Btw it is weird that none of the Ho-Ri in WoT got access to the historical Type 5 10cm gun that was developed just for the Ho-Ri project, not even as a stock gun, really WeeGee ?
Regarding why they didn't bother with the Ka-To is probably because they wanted this as a heavy TD branch so that is why not even the real vehicle like Na-To is in the TT because it is a soft skinned TD just like the Ka-To, but maybe they could be added in a altenative TD branch ? but you can bet that they might be added them as premium instead cuz ''i love money !'' ....
Going to assume the Ka-Ri is almost entirely fabricated.
Tier X is a monster. Very fun to play with that big gun!
this is just like with the Italian TD's the are so fake from tier 8 - 10
Excellent,so much information you had to go through!!!
japamse be like we wish it would be real sadly we dont even have the steel for that
Can u make a video on wot blitz Chinese tech tree BC I wanna know that they r real or not ?
Like half of wot tanks.
Either "they were on paper" or straight "what if"
The Chi-To SP seems to be based on the "Chi-Ri tank destroyers". However how real they actually are seems up in the air.
One thing that I loved when I played WoT were realistic battles events made by the community. You basically made a predetermined layout of vehicles based on how many tanks each army had at X time, and you could only use them with realistic modules. I recall playing a match with a Panther, where the team was 1 Tiger, 3 Panthers and a mix of Pz IV (modules based on the ausf. G) and StuG III G.
It was usually unbalanced, given how WoT works, but still funny.
The Chi-To SP was chosen largely because it was a tier VII they could port from World of Tanks Blitz, and they picked it there because there it is the first tank in the line, coming after the tier VI Chi-To.
I think with WoT they know that they lean more towards arcade rather than sim so it's harder to justify the extra effort of trying to provide a historically accurate product. That sort of thing is more likely to be done by War Thunder since being (somewhat) historically accurate is something they have pushed harder on.
The issue is not that they have made up tanks but that they try to pass them off as real life designs when they are completely made up.
If they just said "This is a concept tank that we designed that we believe could had been an evolution of this tank" or something along those lines then it would all be fine. But what they are doing now is more tricking people into believing that some of these made up tanks existed.
I believe that a lot of people get interested in tanks because of games like War thunder and WoT and having them get inaccurate information passed on as real is not the best way to start learning about tanks.
As long as someone has made a concept drawing or a written description, it's historical enough.
And for a game like WoT, sure, why not? It would be very boring sticking only with stuff that was actually built or even worse, only those taken into active service.
@@Fretti90 No, that's the thing, they almost never take something that is "COMPLETELY made up", they're just very free in how they interpret stuff that might have a single halffinished drawing or maybe a vague "how about this" PM sent to a boss somewhere sometime and never taken further.
Those are not made up, they're fictional in STATS, not in existance, because someone did think them up.
@@DIREWOLFx75 warhammer tanks are completely fictional, most of their premiums have only a loose grasp on real tanks, and half of them are only realistic in naming, they have an entire tech tree branches that are completely made up, as well as a batch of premiums that are all their own creations.
TLDR: wargaming has and will continue making fake tanks for as long as their game makes money.
@@DIREWOLFx75
So i made a pretty long reply on the matter but when i watched the clip again i think Cone really sums up my feelings on the matter pretty well at 5:40 so watch that again to see how i feel about it. I will leave the "reply" at the bottom if you want to read it.
"As long as someone has made a concept drawing or a written description, it's historical enough." - But look at the Tier 9 and Tier 10 in the video. As far as i understand it, no plans were made or designed for the Ho-ri to mount those guns with the Tier 10 version not even having a gun that existed. Thats not historical, thats just made up.
"And for a game like WoT, sure, why not? It would be very boring sticking only with stuff that was actually built or even worse, only those taken into active service.
" - That is fine, its their game they can do what they want. But make it clear in the descriptions that its a fictional tank so that people do not believe that these were built or designed. Because the way they phrase it in the descriptions it make it sound like there is evidence for a lot of these designs. Watch Cone's video on Japanese tanks in WoT Blitz, he sums it up well there as well on how they make it seem like many of their fictional designs existed.
I just want to make it clear, i have no issue with the tanks being fictional or just "a vague pm to a boss", i would just want them to be absolutely clear in the descriptions that "There is little to no evidence that this existed" or "This is a 'what if' that we made up based off of..." etc.
Pov : its 2029 and Wargaming seeing no problem to add a Jadgtiger with 305 mm anti tank cannon (only source is a 8 year old kid drawing it )
The Chi-To’s insanely OP in the game, so it doesn’t bother me too much. I love playing it
Great vid ConeofArc, I recently unlocked the Ho-Ni 3 and glad to hear how historical it is.
the tanks came from blitz so its all to fake, except for tier5-6
Not really, all the Ho-Ri atleast had a drawing and a Wooden Mock up
@@yi_hou3092 yes, but we're their guns real?
@@cheesetonk yes, but their mountings aren't
WOT Arty Noobs covered all the Japanese Self Propelled Guns back in 2016/2017 in the hope that Wargaming would introduce them as Arty.
Always the Bridesmaid and never the Bride, Wargaming let us down by making them into tank destroyers instead of the SPGs they were supposed to be.
At this rate of making up things, I've been wondering why they didn't make Potei-To, Tomei-To, Buri-To and much more. I'd say it's a missed opportunity.
I guess the next line is going to be open top TDs with the Type 4 Ha-To as an Tier 10 TD :). would be fun... yes, i know it's rocket artillerie
What if you cover the DD Tank and the Type 2 Amphibious Tank from KanColle?
Problem is to design tank that slso competitive in the game
While warthunder for ww2, to early cold war ddint have this issue because you can one hit one kill so easily. In WoT its diffrent you need to make tank that have HP to trade with other tank soo MOSTLY ALL HISTORICAL ASPECT WILL BE THROWED OFF WINDOW
Fake?!?! You wanna talk fake?!?!?! 90% of the tanks in world of tanks are fake lol
OMG, a video game is not real!?!?!? 😳😳😳😳😳 What a shock!!! (dude, grow up) 🤦🏻♂
I don't see what's so wrong about having a description like
"This is a concept for a self propelled gun using the (REAL GUN) on the chassis of the (REAL TANK)
While this combination never existed, plans were drawn for a vehicle of this broad design"
Not that it matters now but in that Sherman Hunter video, anything coming from the Sensha Blog/ Seon Eun-Ae/ Mai_Waffentrager should be securitized. They have made some false claims about where they get the information regarding Japanese tanks from. A lot of the information, pictures, and articles they pass as their own research comes from the Japan Center for Asian Historical Records or JACAR.
Well World of Tanks is known to be a pay to win with completely faked Tanks that weren't even a concept like war thunder with the American T-34, T-29 and many other Tanks and like Gaijin did with the Tiger 10.5 which is a gun never mounted on a tiger 2H because the gun itself is massive to fit inside of a turret
Not gonna lie, really wish War Thunder would add the rest of the Japanese TD. Only if the data parts of the vehicle is available, since they already add the the Wooden mockup variant. Would like to CAS it into submission with 5 ton bomb
But hey it's Gaijin, so it's top tier first policy
Why no type 60 or other atgm carriers? Are they in a different category or something. Idk, I don’t play WOTs.
Have NOT played a single second of "World of Tanks" or "War Thunder" or whatever the most popular game is out there now. I build plastic model kits of armored vehicles and have noticed the influx of various designs of vehicles - regardless of country - onto the plastic model building industry. Must admit, plenty of vehicles that have NEVER seen before, so whenever I dust off all my reference materials trying to re-educate myself on some of these vehicles, am finding out that they do not nor ever existed!! Get it - nice to see the "paper panzers" or those very rare vehicles and such in scale plastic and are fun to build, as long as there is some type of evidence that they existed or were on the drawing board, but some of these other vehicles..... So, now I know WHY there are a plethora of make-believe vehicles suddenly flooding the plastic model building market - silly games are dictating now. Well, in defense of these silly games - at least they are creating something interesting to try and learn about and build.
I mean... it's World of Tanks, so the default assumption of 'very' probably holds up
played em all...if you've got the german casemate td line ground out then I wouldn't bother....bit better speed and better reload on t9,10 big guns is about it really....
Can we count on new British medium wheeled tanks introduced in WoT in Fake Tank Friday? Most of vehicles are real, but wonder how much they made up, e.g. the way how they turn
I also like playing the tanks in their historical configuration. Typically I can achieve this with a few minutes on Google and then mounting the appropriate components. The game is of course about balance and arcade-like fun. So I understand that the historical components may not be the most powerful components (typically the real engine is the base engine).
Wargaming love to take the piss out of players , make the new lines fast and manoeuvrable , give them fantasy guns but keep the old lines like the UK and USA TD's slow and often hideously outclassed
why make realistic tanks when you can make a fake premium tanks and get quick money? I hate the WG scum so much... stopped playing 2 years ago and never felt better about my choice
Could you do a video on the Polish paper tanks in WOT?
With WoT being such an offering of material - have you thought about exploring tanks they havent included yet? ... If there is any left in the relevant timescales!
World of Tanks: It's just a game! War Thunder: It's an inaccurate simulation here are the leaked designs to prove it!
I think the Japanese army would of chosen development of tank destroyer that had turret like an up gun Chi Ri. Because in combat a casemate tank might get bogged in sand or stuck in thick jungle making it’s gun useless because there are no large open plans like Europe in pacific island warfare. This is why the Japanese stuck sticking with small to medium tanks because of logistics