agree. discussing cars the other day online and trying to explain to all the korean suv lovers, the REAL truth is the truth in 10 years. what is still working? what is still not peeled or cracked? what looks outdated and screams 10 years old or is that an 8 track??? keep it simple, stupid. car reviewers want it both ways. they adore the modern car and then dismiss a simple interior as poor.
I wish Mitsubishi could make an Evo 9 today AS IT IS from the factory today, it's one of my dream cars, a simple interior with a proper engine and transmission with a rally AWD system in a C segment 4 door saloon body, no gimmicks, no nonsense and excessive safety gizmos, but I'll keep dreaming or find an example that hasn't been raped and abused with cheap mods put into them
I’ve owned 2011 C2S 6sp and 2012 GTS 6sp. And have extensively driven almost every series generation. 997.2 is a very special car and will do very well over the long-term. Bullet proof engine and excellent drive feel with some good soul. Also have a 951s and love it.
Not sure you should jinx them by calling them bulletproof. I'm a 996.2 owner and as a close follower of Jake Raby, he's seeing the bore scoring issues that first appeared in the M96 engines working it's way into the newer engines. To me, bullet proof implies you can treat them carelessly and they'll be fine. Instead, I'd say that if you keep the cylinders properly oiled and cooled, then they'll last a long time. This means keeping injectors from leaking and changing the oil every 6 months if you're not driving it much. Also, Raby has said that the DI engines are suffering from problems caused by detonation. Regardless of vintage, I think we'll all agree that a failed engine in a Porsche is going to cost big bucks to resolve.
From 1903-1985, coloured interiors were normal and available in all cars, even the least espensive ones. It wasn't until recently that colours were removed to save money and keep choices to a minimum. Now we are offered, grey, beige, taupe, neutral, charcoal etc. All crap. Another thing is even if you do get a coloured interior, 50% of the parts are still black regardless, because it limits cost and inventory.
@@georgiapatriot4575 I live in that area and drive the rural roads of McHenry County quite often and have never had any deer run out in front of me, they tend to prefer more wooded areas.
This is one of my dream cars. I managed to own a 987.2 Manual Cayman for a bit before committing to a mortgage and owning a house. I now own a ND MX5 (cheaper car/cheaper insurance etc). The Mazda puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, but I miss the Porsche everyday.
FORGETFULFOOT I just got a 987.2 Cayman and sold my ND. I agree with you. The ND is a fantastic car and super fun. I wish I could have kept it. But the Porsche has a layer of soul and specialness that the ND lacks. Mods and parts are insanely more expensive though.
I had a 987.1 S. My only complaint was the tall gearing. It also wasn’t a great daily as it was quite loud and stiff, but man, it was such a connected car.
@@RobSchlegel Yeah I actually went from an ND MX5, to a 987.2 in Aqua Blue Metallic, then had a few more cars, then back to the ND again. The main reason I think MX5s are so great is that you can still have a great time if you unfortunately need to put your finances in other more important places. Its a good compromise car for the dude on a average/slightly above average income.
I sold my 1992 NA in 1999 to get into Porsches, all of which I've loved... but I also missed my Miata every day. I finally bought a 1999 NB1 to add to the 997.2 C2S , and find it refreshing to drive a car I can run up to the limiter shift after shift yet barely break the speed limit, or drift around a roundabout without going some insane speed.
Porsche are doing OEM retro fit Apple car play infotainment units now for older models. Might answer one of your concerns around old tech and connectivity 👍
Jack: It has been an absolute pleasure watching you grow as a presenter. Now your ability to convey the information is as compelling as your depth of knowledge. Congrats!
I've been to a few Porsche Club of America autocross events this year and this model always stuck out to me. Like he was saying, it seems like the perfect balance of modern (without being obnoxious) yet old enough to make it feel like an actual car.
Not unlike comparing an E90 BMW with actual steering feel and a playful chassis, to the F30 with the artificial, chalky-steering feel from the electric rack, and soggy road dynamics.
Love your videos. Masterful production value without taking yourselves too seriously. Honest reviews for real car guys, focusing on what real car guys care about. And Mark's demeanor, which says "I love cars but I'm disappointed that the asteroid hasn't hit yet"
@@lightness1701 lol I'm EVERYWHERE Pleasure to meet you I haven't been on the comment section for a while I've been busy but glad to meet a fellow commenter from TG forums
After years of looking, I finally found my perfect first 911. It’s a 2011 997.2 series 911 Carrera S Cabriolet 6-sp manual in triple black. It’s still under 40k miles but I do drive it often. I’ve had it almost 2 yrs and it seems values on this one are stable if not increasing. I don’t care, I love it & hope to keep it!
Love this car! I have a 997.2 carrera MT with low mileage and has gone up 5~10k in value in just 6 months 😝crazy! I wish I could afford and maintain an air cooled 911 but I am very happy with this 2010!👍🏼 enjoy your 911’s if you’re fortunate enough to own one. Safe driving to all✌🏼
These types of reviews are the best content for me. A car I could actually own, it's origin and it's weak spots all in one video is amazing. I enjoy the hell out of history and besides Top Gear, Grand Tour and Throttle House ya'll are the very best in the car journalism industry. Speaking of history tell your partner thank you for the railroad......
Very informative and useful. These are THE cars to own now as they are set to go up as every good dealer out there that specialises in this generation cannot get enough of them; regularly showing 'deposit taken' , 'reserved' or 'sold' within days of being listed on-line.
Compliments on the pitch of this video. I feel like you bring the experience and technical highlights of the car to life in a really engaging and somehow more informative way than most other videos reviewing the same car!
I hope they do go down in the next 2 years. I'm really wanting buy one and the one he has in the video for 50k is immaculate. The ones for 50k now are 15 years old and have 100k miles
A note for the brakes. The first gen pccb were available on the 996 turbo. Second the 997.2 base did see a slight caliper redesign on the 997.2 base. They also went to 330mm+28mm rotors front and rear vs the .1 base was 318mmx28mm front and 299mm×24mm rear. Both used 4 piston calipers front and rear
These things hold their value stupidly well. They're great to drive and reliable as well. I'd argue that they're probably the safest investment that you can actually enjoy on a daily basis in terms of depreciation.
I agree. This generation 911 and the subsequent Cayman (987.2) all hold their values so well. They are all reliable and provide an engaging driving experience for the money.
@Koala Man good choice on the RC-F. Will be the most reliable car you could buy out of all of them. I purchased a BMW once before and had the same issues. Leaking coolant and oil everywhere (only owned it for 7 months-purchased as a CPO) and the roof liner fell apart.
Wow, been about 6 months since I watched some savagegeese and all of the sudden your almost 500k subs! Glad your getting the recognition you deserve guys!
2010 997.2 C4S, put 50k miles on it in the 7 years I've owned it. Tires, oil/filter, wipers, and more tires. Then the high pressure fuel pump went this year. As far as I know it was original to the car. Still, 7 years and 50k miles with virtually no problems, and my bluetooth connects every time. The size and styling are great, as is the build quality. Overall, it makes me smile and I still turn around to look back at it every time I get out of it.
These 997s are definitely gonna start increasing in value for nice ones with the manual most likely. If u can get one in the 40s with lower mileage I think its a solid investment
I have to say, the production quality of this video really is what stands out to me. I love cars, I love driving, car care and wrenching, however by all accounts I am otherwise an underachieving buffoon who will likely die just as broke as I live today, but NOT without the joy of having owned a Porsche 911. Thanks to your video, my sights are set on the goal of a financially responsible purchase of a 997.2 machine, by hook or by crook. Thank you for the inspiration, John
Yes. Early Boxster or Cayman. Reasonably affordable, and many were not daily driven. Great value today, but won't stay that way long. As the price of entry into modern sports cars climbs, and production numbers drop, early 2000's and late '90's sporting hardware will continue to appreciate in value. Let some attorney eat the depreciation, and accumulate a stack of dealer service records. Then swoop in and reap the benefits of his/her financial folly.
Just came here as suggested by Google and, Wow. What a beautifully put together vid, with what is still one hell of a beautiful car. Definitely subscribing.
I've been watching these for a while now, and their prices are going up. This is further compounded by the fact that the 997.2 was sold during the last recession and are very rare. Meanwhile, 991 prices are still going down, so at some point, I think the 991 looks better but this is the last of the more "mechanical" 911s.
Yeah man they are. My uncle has a clean fairly low mileage one he loves (silver on black manual 997.2) and I was surprised how much he's selling it for (around 60ish last I checked). Holding they're value stupid well. Just a carrera.
There are simply more than twice as many 997.1s. 15,146 Carrera and 35,570 Carrera S models in the 997.2 compare to 34,401 Carrera and 73,496 Carrera S models before the facelift. About 20% 997.2’s are manual.
Its the best 911 since the SC. Which owning a 79SC is saying a lot. It does everything right, and most crucially feels right while doing it. Yes the newer cars are even faster, quieter, handle even better, and are more refined. That is what your extra hundred grand gets you. What it does not get you is much if anything in the way of a more involving driving experience. The 997.2 just feels like the way you know a Porsche should feel. Its not that the newer ones don't, but this one does, and in spades, and for a lot less money. You tracked down a good one here. Great video.
Great vid, I traded my 997.2 C2 for a 991.2 C4S this past summer and this video makes me miss my 997.2 and wish I could have kept it. The video is spot on, as the carrera base model is all the power you really need. After 10 years, you just want more but really not necessary items such as more exhaust note, more power, more tech, but you pay for it. But for someone who dreams of 911 - definitely the best car to start out with if you dont want the IMS bearing issues of the previous years. PDK is the best transmission for LA traffic and the stick for everywhere else. But everyone just wants the 992 GT3 when it comes out next year!
I drove a 997 gt3 on the track and I had a 'never meet your heros' moment. Shifter felt vauge, steering wasnt as its been touted, terminal untersteer, unless you lift your foot a millimeter, then is becomes a whiplash machine. This was on ps4s's. I hopped back in my s2000 and enjoyed my razor sharp front end and wicked lateral G's I could pull.
I used to track old 911s. When you understand what they want, they are great, but there is a learning curve. It's very different to an FR car. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. Have another go with an instructor and you may enjoy it more.
Just bought one..I love this dream car..it’s truly the best therapy..handles & is the most beautiful car I have ever owned..I’m older & waited to finally buy one to enjoy w out any regrets..❤️❤️🏎🏎
Beautiful 997! Love the color combo! One of my favorite color combos. This car is definitely worth the $50k fee. It ages well, drives well, looks good, what else can you ask for? Will other modern $50k look this good after 10yrs? Don’t think so.
Dude, I saw the title and tapped on it. While waiting for the page to load I said aloud "ooh I hope this is a savage geese! ... Yeah-haha!" You do a great job, buddy. Congrats on your success.
Great video as usual! One thing to clarify that may be confusing is when you talk about the engine improvements (around 8:18) is that from 2005-2008 (997.1), the 911s used the M97 engines which are not direct injected (and still have the IMS). You mention in 2005 they started to use DI, which isn't the case. The major engine changes are not in these years, but started in 2009 (beginning of the 997.2) using the 9A1 engine with all of the "all new engine designs" you talk about during the engine discussion. Yes, the 997.2 variant is a big difference, but you are incorrectly mentioning the 997.2 improvements during the 997.1 production years. Long time fan, and keep the excellent videos coming!
I bought my 997 in 2005 and it does not do rain it has never been washed I clean it with distilled water and use a steamer for the wheels it is covered in my garage when not being used and does not have scratch on it My neighbours give me grief after every drive I clean the ca even spraying the tyres with high gloss foam. 50 k miles full serviced history I am 75 and a farmer friend of mine has offered to Bury me in the car when my time is up I have now got a mini Cooper due this month so I can use it daily. First fell in love with 911 when delivering papers in 1964 saw one and got the sack as I spend 30 minutes just looking at the car A sad old man who still feels as I did driving a fire engine in city of London in 1971 when I just drive in norfolk countryside where cars are rare The only fault is that my Bruce springstein greatest hits is in the cd and will not eject Porsche said it would cost too much to remove Any suggestions are welcome
Loved this video - watched it a few times!! I haven't driven a manual in decades but when dude was about to put the hammer down and was in reverse, I hit the floor!! Great video and love the 997.2!!
Great video as usual, thanks. Your comment at 17min is that it wasn’t exciting enough, no screaming engine, too refined. The Z4 M Coupe from the same time gives you all of that! One shares space in my garage with a 996.2 C2 manual, a less refined more analogue car than this too, although either would do :)
Awesome video like always! It just wouldve been really nice to distinguish better between the 997.1 and the 997.2. The motor in the 997.1 was far from bombproof. It actually had more and more important way more expensive failures than the motor of the 996.2 which was actually really reliable
I second. It’s so good. My white whale is the 997.2 S, manual. It’s the first car I fell in love with during the test drive. It was like seeing the future. The controls are perfect. Clutch pedal feels engineered. Shifter is perfect. The power is deceptive, and omg the noises. Closest to the spirit of 993. Love, love, love it.
My father always told me.. ( Porsche and Jag specifically ) Whatever the car cost's to buy... Save double that ! Because more than likely that is what you will be spending in maintenance and repairs.
Mark's exhaust noise complaint is easily remedied with the Sharkwerks center muffler bypass and added to a model that has the Porsche Sports Exhaust it sounds great (or any number of other aftermarket exhausts). Also, the 'S' adds another 40hp which is for sure noticeable as well as larger brakes and PASM is standard. I picked an 997.2 'S' 6-speed last year for a weekend car with a bit more than double the miles of the car featured for less than $50k but still in mint-ish condition. Because PDK came out this generation and because of the lower numbers of production due to the recession a 6-speed 997.2 is a bit rare. I also strongly considered a 991.1 S. The 991 is more refined without the harsh tire noise, arguably better looking and the interior is much more modern, but I felt they were not fully depreciated yet (may be getting close now). For those arguing that $50k is a lot of money for a 10 year old car, you are correct. But you need to factor in depreciation. If you get a good deal, the car will still be worth 90% of its value 5 years hence. Buy something new-ish for $60k and it will be worth half in 5 years - that is $30k of real money. Also the 997.2 is fairly reliable when compared other 10 year old high performance German models. My only complaint is the interior can be prone to rattles which is very annoying given the quality expectations. Oh, and my phone works fine with the bluetooth and it does have USB audio integration.
Have been looking for 997.2 C4S manual but they're super rare . The pdk is good but not as engaging and age related issues that are potentially non serviceable are scary.
Thanks guys for the great video. I just bought my 2012 C4 base cabriolet PDK wide body, one of the last 997.2 made before the change over to the 991 about a year ago, late March of 2022, car only had 25,025 miles on it, I now have 27,050 on it. I very much love putting the top down on a nice day versus a coupe, can't do that in a coupe. I'm glad that I bought the .2 for all those reasons you had mentioned in your video.
One more thing - due to the recession these 997.2's had relatively low production numbers. They're not exactly rare, but if you're looking for specific options it can take years to find the right one. C4S's are definitely the hardest to find out of all the models
All of my iPhones pair to my 997.2 PCM3 and have done for the 12 years I've owned it... the issue is you can only use them for phone calls, not music/audio.
Cross shopped the 997.2 and 991.1 and ended with an 997.2 C2S manual. As a summer car, this is just the perfect car in my opinion. It's one of the very good 911.
This channel has some of the most accurate evaluations of cars online, and better than probably all auto journalists. journalists are all mostly wrong, even chris harris and evo magazine. but this guy knows. he is correct. the 997 controls are ok, but that is all. better than most? yes, but not what they should be.
It was an option in these cars. My 997.2 has no tech/bluetooth/aux funtion but the cars with the option have all the connectivity ports in the armrest storage compartment. After doing the fister muffler bypass and billy boat center muffler delete I don’t ever feel the need to connect to Bluetooth tho 😏
The iPhone 12 Pro seems to pair and function normally (just got the phone so no long term testing done, but so far it seems to function as well as with the X) That’s for phone only, no bluetooth audio streaming. Using an Invery Airdual dongle for that stuff, connects to the USB and AUX ports under the armrest. Works pretty well, gives me track names from Spotify/Podcast/Apple Music/whatnot in the PCM :-) (This is a .2 2011 PCM 3)
A truly classy, elegant sports car. Wonderful review. Was getting so tired of SUV's or Korean cars. This is a car I really enjoy watching a story about. It reminds me of my 2007 987 Boxster.
I’m gonna say it. I like the red interior a lot particularly on a dark color. It’s not a super bright shade at all and you kinda gotta put red on everything at that point or else like a lot of e46 M3s and M coupes with the two tone it’ll look like autozone seat covers or some tasteless Barrett Jackson resto mod.
I love my 911 2009 PDK C4 I went looking back in early 2018 because of the engineering changes its an unbelievable value so happy it is my favorite drive this is a car you drive across the country so comfortable the price keeps going up regardless of mileage love your video thank you
@TheImperfectGuy @need metal Exactly - you hope. My friend had one, immaculate condition, low miles, but it still had problems regularly such as faulty sensors. A visit to the dealership to diagnose and fix was an automatic $1,000-$2,000.
@@stonecoldcustoms With so many great indy pcar shops around, there should be no reason to take a 10year old car to the dealership for anything. I'm super happy with my 997.2 that I got this past July!
@@allanchu264 Depends on where you live - not so many great Indy car shops around in Canada. All of eastern canada has a population of like 2,000,000 people for 4 provinces.
there's an Aux/USB in the center console arm rest. you can buy a bluetooth receiver that plugs directly into this and make the car up-to-date, and the sound quality is not bad either
It's good because it's not half-assed. When I saw two other cars there showed where it was mostly the upper half of the seats only, like a tongue on them or something, I didn't like that.
I have a manual 997.2 Carrera and it is so sweet to drive on our roads here in the UK. With the back seats folded down it also carries a surprising amount of luggage. It is the ultimate road-trip car for two people. Love it!
Yes, on the wide roads in the US, Savage never talks about width.... on your classic B roads, you feel every mm of width! The new 992 versions especially will seem huge on a UK road, as they are all the wide-body now.
Finally, a car I can eat spaghetti in without worry
😂😂😂
Not that one, its too nice
🍝💯
Bad advice, my 911 smells like spaghetti sauce.
Mrs Spaghetti would be so proud.
The lack of buttons, a busy dash and stupid screen is refreshing
agree.
discussing cars the other day online and trying to explain to all the korean suv lovers, the REAL truth is the truth in 10 years.
what is still working?
what is still not peeled or cracked?
what looks outdated and screams 10 years old or is that an 8 track???
keep it simple, stupid.
car reviewers want it both ways.
they adore the modern car and then dismiss a simple interior as poor.
That thing still does have a lot of buttons 😂. It’s just not stupid is all.
i noticed that too. no steering wheel buttons is a great look . i love that look
I wish Mitsubishi could make an Evo 9 today AS IT IS from the factory today, it's one of my dream cars, a simple interior with a proper engine and transmission with a rally AWD system in a C segment 4 door saloon body, no gimmicks, no nonsense and excessive safety gizmos, but I'll keep dreaming or find an example that hasn't been raped and abused with cheap mods put into them
The manual handbrake is also great to see.
I’ve owned 2011 C2S 6sp and 2012 GTS 6sp. And have extensively driven almost every series generation. 997.2 is a very special car and will do very well over the long-term. Bullet proof engine and excellent drive feel with some good soul. Also have a 951s and love it.
Cheers for the 951 club, i miss mine now.
Not sure you should jinx them by calling them bulletproof. I'm a 996.2 owner and as a close follower of Jake Raby, he's seeing the bore scoring issues that first appeared in the M96 engines working it's way into the newer engines. To me, bullet proof implies you can treat them carelessly and they'll be fine. Instead, I'd say that if you keep the cylinders properly oiled and cooled, then they'll last a long time. This means keeping injectors from leaking and changing the oil every 6 months if you're not driving it much. Also, Raby has said that the DI engines are suffering from problems caused by detonation. Regardless of vintage, I think we'll all agree that a failed engine in a Porsche is going to cost big bucks to resolve.
@@georgiapatriot4575 I have switched exclusively to Driven DI synthetic per Baby's advice.
Is the GTS with the extra $15k-20k? I’m in the market for a 997.2 C2S or Gts 6mt to replace my 09 c2 pdk
How do you find the 997.2 compared to the 991?
What trim pieces and accents would you like to be in red?
Owner: yes
Wtf its not funny anymore gtfo
@@r7z859 It's not even the worst application of that tiresome unwitty meme that I have found. In this case, I can kinda see it work.
As it should be.
@@Dowlphin talks a guy with profile pic of my little pony? Tf
From 1903-1985, coloured interiors were normal and available in all cars, even the least espensive ones. It wasn't until recently that colours were removed to save money and keep choices to a minimum. Now we are offered, grey, beige, taupe, neutral, charcoal etc. All crap. Another thing is even if you do get a coloured interior, 50% of the parts are still black regardless, because it limits cost and inventory.
The guy with the red barn has to be tired of Mark's shenanigans by now
LoL! Maybe Mark owns it and shoots videos on animal husbandry there. But don't look in the cellar :)
I keep expecting a deer to pop out of one of those fields and dart a cross in front of him.
@@georgiapatriot4575 I live in that area and drive the rural roads of McHenry County quite often and have never had any deer run out in front of me, they tend to prefer more wooded areas.
This is one of my dream cars. I managed to own a 987.2 Manual Cayman for a bit before committing to a mortgage and owning a house. I now own a ND MX5 (cheaper car/cheaper insurance etc). The Mazda puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, but I miss the Porsche everyday.
FORGETFULFOOT I just got a 987.2 Cayman and sold my ND. I agree with you. The ND is a fantastic car and super fun. I wish I could have kept it. But the Porsche has a layer of soul and specialness that the ND lacks. Mods and parts are insanely more expensive though.
Same here...one day it'll happen again.
I had a 987.1 S. My only complaint was the tall gearing. It also wasn’t a great daily as it was quite loud and stiff, but man, it was such a connected car.
@@RobSchlegel Yeah I actually went from an ND MX5, to a 987.2 in Aqua Blue Metallic, then had a few more cars, then back to the ND again. The main reason I think MX5s are so great is that you can still have a great time if you unfortunately need to put your finances in other more important places. Its a good compromise car for the dude on a average/slightly above average income.
I sold my 1992 NA in 1999 to get into Porsches, all of which I've loved... but I also missed my Miata every day. I finally bought a 1999 NB1 to add to the 997.2 C2S , and find it refreshing to drive a car I can run up to the limiter shift after shift yet barely break the speed limit, or drift around a roundabout without going some insane speed.
Porsche are doing OEM retro fit Apple car play infotainment units now for older models. Might answer one of your concerns around old tech and connectivity 👍
Jack: It has been an absolute pleasure watching you grow as a presenter. Now your ability to convey the information is as compelling as your depth of knowledge. Congrats!
Thank you chadd. I appreciate it
@@jackholmes8105 it has made these videos that much better, your presentation with mark is not something found anywhere else
So.. why are you Jack "Singapore"!?
Big thank you, Joe, for letting them have their way with this car and the Z3 clown shoes
Such a beautiful car, even 10 years later. Love that interior and exterior.
The look of disappointment on Jack's face as Mark breaks down the car at 17:55 is hilarious
Great review. One note: Everybody always who claims 2+2s don’t have space in the rear don’t have kids.
Yes, this was actually a great "family sports car" until this year - my 12yo no longer fits in the back, and the 10yo wouldn't be very comfortable.
I fit in the back of one of these. Not "comfy", but I'd do it for an hour or so just because its fun to ride in.
I honestly would love a 2+2 just because it has space in the back for my stuff so I don't have to use the trunk all the time.
Great video as always, I love watching these videos before work.
Before, during, after . . .
:-D
I love watching them at work. And by work I mean at home in my pajamas muted on conferences calls
@@negahplz1156 can confirm, it's the best time to watch these
@@negahplz1156 lol ,,,, me too one earbud youtube, other conf call
I love watching them during work...LOL.
I love watching these videos before work.
I love watching at work
weirdshibainu 😂😅
I absolutely love the “Marry a Doctor or a Stripper” analogy!
Can't believe that line made it to the final cut loll
Better yet, marry the doctor who paid her way through medical school by moonlighting as a stripper. 😏
@@CarlVandenberg what car would that be?
@@palmermonsen9098 That car has to be the new C8 Corvette !
@@CarlVandenberg .. Give that man a cigar! Correct answer is; Marry a Doctor who’s afforded medical school as a Striper. That cracks me up.
I've been to a few Porsche Club of America autocross events this year and this model always stuck out to me. Like he was saying, it seems like the perfect balance of modern (without being obnoxious) yet old enough to make it feel like an actual car.
Not unlike comparing an E90 BMW with actual steering feel and a playful chassis, to the F30 with the artificial, chalky-steering feel from the electric rack, and soggy road dynamics.
E90 has crap steering feel too
0:55 It's like a 90's intro montage to a serial show. Love it & the 996/997. Really diggin the Porsche love. :-)
Love you guys' dry wit and the sort of review style that's relevant to the everyman.
Love your videos. Masterful production value without taking yourselves too seriously. Honest reviews for real car guys, focusing on what real car guys care about. And Mark's demeanor, which says "I love cars but I'm disappointed that the asteroid hasn't hit yet"
Thank you for letting Mark and Jack review this car! These Porsches are ageless and just beautiful.
The 997 is one of the best looking Porsches ever made
Man it has aged so well!
It looks like a big eyed fish. I always hated that design. I don’t know why they keep that on every porsche
Beautiful proportions rival Aston Martins
The Audi 5 coupe is also timeless
Dang, I never expected to see you outside of the TG forums. (Janitor_genie here)
@@lightness1701 lol I'm EVERYWHERE
Pleasure to meet you I haven't been on the comment section for a while I've been busy but glad to meet a fellow commenter from TG forums
Peak of Jack’s reviews - man has become a great reviewer.
Thanks. It has been a constant struggle. I appreciate the kind words
I owned and drove a manual 997.2 C2S daily for 5 years, put 50,000km on it. It was the best car I have ever owned in over 40 years of driving. Period.
Another commenter here said he owned one for a year and will never own another.
After years of looking, I finally found my perfect first 911. It’s a 2011 997.2 series 911 Carrera S Cabriolet 6-sp manual in triple black. It’s still under 40k miles but I do drive it often. I’ve had it almost 2 yrs and it seems values on this one are stable if not increasing. I don’t care, I love it & hope to keep it!
Watching this 2 years later makes me want to cry......because NOW 997.2s are $$$$$$$$
Wish they were still 40 to 60k for a really nice one.
The best in the business in terms of the engineering review (in the shoppe segment). Also like how they summarize the review BRAVO.
Love these car. And I agree that this is from the golden era of driving engagement. Thanks to the owner!
You want that emotional connection. All you need is a drive after a rainy day in an E36 M3 or a Honda S2000. Best times ever!
Love this car! I have a 997.2 carrera MT with low mileage and has gone up 5~10k in value in just 6 months 😝crazy! I wish I could afford and maintain an air cooled 911 but I am very happy with this 2010!👍🏼 enjoy your 911’s if you’re fortunate enough to own one. Safe driving to all✌🏼
These types of reviews are the best content for me.
A car I could actually own, it's origin and it's weak spots all in one video is amazing. I enjoy the hell out of history and besides Top Gear, Grand Tour and Throttle House ya'll are the very best in the car journalism industry. Speaking of history tell your partner thank you for the railroad......
Very informative and useful. These are THE cars to own now as they are set to go up as every good dealer out there that specialises in this generation cannot get enough of them; regularly showing 'deposit taken' , 'reserved' or 'sold' within days of being listed on-line.
Compliments on the pitch of this video. I feel like you bring the experience and technical highlights of the car to life in a really engaging and somehow more informative way than most other videos reviewing the same car!
Crazy how the prices went up from only like 1 1/2 years ago. Would love to get to drive one of these one day.
Like 90k to 100k now
I hope they do go down in the next 2 years. I'm really wanting buy one and the one he has in the video for 50k is immaculate. The ones for 50k now are 15 years old and have 100k miles
They were under valued for too long, the values will stay high because 911’s age well
The research these guys put into the videos is mind-gurgling.
A note for the brakes. The first gen pccb were available on the 996 turbo. Second the 997.2 base did see a slight caliper redesign on the 997.2 base. They also went to 330mm+28mm rotors front and rear vs the .1 base was 318mmx28mm front and 299mm×24mm rear. Both used 4 piston calipers front and rear
This is the only channel i need to watch when i need to learn a new car or interested in a used car that i would like to buy in 2021
The GT 911’s are the screaming hard edge cars, the Carrera isn’t supposed to be ‘this’ it’s the every day 911.
Joe you are special dude! Both your cars are great. Thanks for letting SG thrash you babies.
These things hold their value stupidly well. They're great to drive and reliable as well. I'd argue that they're probably the safest investment that you can actually enjoy on a daily basis in terms of depreciation.
I agree. This generation 911 and the subsequent Cayman (987.2) all hold their values so well. They are all reliable and provide an engaging driving experience for the money.
@Koala Man Other German sports cars. Not to a corolla.
@@pranavp386 you understand.
@Koala Man RC-F is beauty.Great choice 👍
@Koala Man good choice on the RC-F. Will be the most reliable car you could buy out of all of them. I purchased a BMW once before and had the same issues. Leaking coolant and oil everywhere (only owned it for 7 months-purchased as a CPO) and the roof liner fell apart.
Wow, been about 6 months since I watched some savagegeese and all of the sudden your almost 500k subs! Glad your getting the recognition you deserve guys!
“Analog” was the first word that came to mind when I drove my friend’s 997.
2010 997.2 C4S, put 50k miles on it in the 7 years I've owned it. Tires, oil/filter, wipers, and more tires. Then the high pressure fuel pump went this year. As far as I know it was original to the car. Still, 7 years and 50k miles with virtually no problems, and my bluetooth connects every time. The size and styling are great, as is the build quality. Overall, it makes me smile and I still turn around to look back at it every time I get out of it.
These 997s are definitely gonna start increasing in value for nice ones with the manual most likely. If u can get one in the 40s with lower mileage I think its a solid investment
Agreed. But as of right now, low mileage 997.2s with manual for $40k simply don’t exist. They are now north of $60k.
I have to say, the production quality of this video really is what stands out to me. I love cars, I love driving, car care and wrenching, however by all accounts I am otherwise an underachieving buffoon who will likely die just as broke as I live today, but NOT without the joy of having owned a Porsche 911. Thanks to your video, my sights are set on the goal of a financially responsible purchase of a 997.2 machine, by hook or by crook.
Thank you for the inspiration,
John
Requesting a 987 boxster review. Trying to bring that $$ amount even lower haha
Yes. Early Boxster or Cayman. Reasonably affordable, and many were not daily driven. Great value today, but won't stay that way long. As the price of entry into modern sports cars climbs, and production numbers drop, early 2000's and late '90's sporting hardware will continue to appreciate in value. Let some attorney eat the depreciation, and accumulate a stack of dealer service records. Then swoop in and reap the benefits of his/her financial folly.
This looks absolutely gorgeous from every angle, the perfect 911 to me
Thanks Joe, That's a great daily driver.
Just came here as suggested by Google and, Wow. What a beautifully put together vid, with what is still one hell of a beautiful car. Definitely subscribing.
I've been watching these for a while now, and their prices are going up. This is further compounded by the fact that the 997.2 was sold during the last recession and are very rare. Meanwhile, 991 prices are still going down, so at some point, I think the 991 looks better but this is the last of the more "mechanical" 911s.
Yeah man they are. My uncle has a clean fairly low mileage one he loves (silver on black manual 997.2) and I was surprised how much he's selling it for (around 60ish last I checked). Holding they're value stupid well. Just a carrera.
They produce about 76k and twice as many .1s
These are far from rare.
There are simply more than twice as many 997.1s. 15,146 Carrera and 35,570 Carrera S models in the 997.2 compare to 34,401 Carrera and 73,496 Carrera S models before the facelift. About 20% 997.2’s are manual.
Its the best 911 since the SC. Which owning a 79SC is saying a lot. It does everything right, and most crucially feels right while doing it. Yes the newer cars are even faster, quieter, handle even better, and are more refined. That is what your extra hundred grand gets you. What it does not get you is much if anything in the way of a more involving driving experience. The 997.2 just feels like the way you know a Porsche should feel. Its not that the newer ones don't, but this one does, and in spades, and for a lot less money. You tracked down a good one here. Great video.
Well done gentlemen......good points all, as usual.....agree with Samsgarden, lack of useless tech and distracting computer screen is refreshing
Great vid, I traded my 997.2 C2 for a 991.2 C4S this past summer and this video makes me miss my 997.2 and wish I could have kept it. The video is spot on, as the carrera base model is all the power you really need. After 10 years, you just want more but really not necessary items such as more exhaust note, more power, more tech, but you pay for it. But for someone who dreams of 911 - definitely the best car to start out with if you dont want the IMS bearing issues of the previous years. PDK is the best transmission for LA traffic and the stick for everywhere else. But everyone just wants the 992 GT3 when it comes out next year!
I drove a 997 gt3 on the track and I had a 'never meet your heros' moment. Shifter felt vauge, steering wasnt as its been touted, terminal untersteer, unless you lift your foot a millimeter, then is becomes a whiplash machine. This was on ps4s's. I hopped back in my s2000 and enjoyed my razor sharp front end and wicked lateral G's I could pull.
I used to track old 911s. When you understand what they want, they are great, but there is a learning curve. It's very different to an FR car. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. Have another go with an instructor and you may enjoy it more.
Just bought one..I love this dream car..it’s truly the best therapy..handles & is the most beautiful car I have ever owned..I’m older & waited to finally buy one to enjoy w out any regrets..❤️❤️🏎🏎
Beautiful 997! Love the color combo! One of my favorite color combos. This car is definitely worth the $50k fee. It ages well, drives well, looks good, what else can you ask for? Will other modern $50k look this good after 10yrs? Don’t think so.
Dude, I saw the title and tapped on it. While waiting for the page to load I said aloud "ooh I hope this is a savage geese! ... Yeah-haha!" You do a great job, buddy. Congrats on your success.
Great video as usual! One thing to clarify that may be confusing is when you talk about the engine improvements (around 8:18) is that from 2005-2008 (997.1), the 911s used the M97 engines which are not direct injected (and still have the IMS). You mention in 2005 they started to use DI, which isn't the case. The major engine changes are not in these years, but started in 2009 (beginning of the 997.2) using the 9A1 engine with all of the "all new engine designs" you talk about during the engine discussion. Yes, the 997.2 variant is a big difference, but you are incorrectly mentioning the 997.2 improvements during the 997.1 production years. Long time fan, and keep the excellent videos coming!
I bought my 997 in 2005 and it does not do rain it has never been washed I clean it with distilled water and use a steamer for the wheels it is covered in my garage when not being used and does not have scratch on it
My neighbours give me grief after every drive I clean the ca even spraying the tyres with high gloss foam.
50 k miles full serviced history
I am 75 and a farmer friend of mine has offered to Bury me in the car when my time is up
I have now got a mini Cooper due this month so I can use it daily.
First fell in love with 911 when delivering papers in 1964 saw one and got the sack as I spend 30 minutes just looking at the car
A sad old man who still feels as I did driving a fire engine in city of London in 1971 when I just drive in norfolk countryside where cars are rare
The only fault is that my Bruce springstein greatest hits is in the cd and will not eject
Porsche said it would cost too much to remove
Any suggestions are welcome
Loved this video - watched it a few times!! I haven't driven a manual in decades but when dude was about to put the hammer down and was in reverse, I hit the floor!! Great video and love the 997.2!!
As always, very informative! Looking forward to the 992 review
Great video as usual, thanks. Your comment at 17min is that it wasn’t exciting enough, no screaming engine, too refined. The Z4 M Coupe from the same time gives you all of that! One shares space in my garage with a 996.2 C2 manual, a less refined more analogue car than this too, although either would do :)
Awesome video like always! It just wouldve been really nice to distinguish better between the 997.1 and the 997.2. The motor in the 997.1 was far from bombproof. It actually had more and more important way more expensive failures than the motor of the 996.2 which was actually really reliable
I couldn't stay with the video after 2mins looking at that interior. I'm sure someone loved it, but that's a psychedelic visual I can do without.
The manuals are rare....
Probably one of the best cars ever made imho.
I second. It’s so good. My white whale is the 997.2 S, manual. It’s the first car I fell in love with during the test drive. It was like seeing the future. The controls are perfect. Clutch pedal feels engineered. Shifter is perfect. The power is deceptive, and omg the noises. Closest to the spirit of 993. Love, love, love it.
That's on my "bucket list" for dream cars. You guys did a great video as usual.
Remember: It may be a 50k car now, but still requires parts for a 120k car.
That's what makes it a 50k buy-in
My father always told me..
( Porsche and Jag specifically )
Whatever the car cost's to buy...
Save double that !
Because more than likely that is what you will be spending in maintenance and repairs.
😭
Engine in the back means you have to bend over to fix it.
Good thing Porsches are pretty damn reliable. But it is indeed pricey.
For me.. Definitely a 997 in the garage! This one,just may be lust worthy as you mentioned.
Thanks for letting all of us check out your sweet car, Joe! Too bad it's "too good" for Mark to like 🤣
His voice sounded really soothing in this presentation, fitting for a Porsche.
Mark's exhaust noise complaint is easily remedied with the Sharkwerks center muffler bypass and added to a model that has the Porsche Sports Exhaust it sounds great (or any number of other aftermarket exhausts). Also, the 'S' adds another 40hp which is for sure noticeable as well as larger brakes and PASM is standard. I picked an 997.2 'S' 6-speed last year for a weekend car with a bit more than double the miles of the car featured for less than $50k but still in mint-ish condition. Because PDK came out this generation and because of the lower numbers of production due to the recession a 6-speed 997.2 is a bit rare. I also strongly considered a 991.1 S. The 991 is more refined without the harsh tire noise, arguably better looking and the interior is much more modern, but I felt they were not fully depreciated yet (may be getting close now). For those arguing that $50k is a lot of money for a 10 year old car, you are correct. But you need to factor in depreciation. If you get a good deal, the car will still be worth 90% of its value 5 years hence. Buy something new-ish for $60k and it will be worth half in 5 years - that is $30k of real money. Also the 997.2 is fairly reliable when compared other 10 year old high performance German models. My only complaint is the interior can be prone to rattles which is very annoying given the quality expectations. Oh, and my phone works fine with the bluetooth and it does have USB audio integration.
Great comment. Should have gotten more 👍s.
Have been looking for 997.2 C4S manual but they're super rare . The pdk is good but not as engaging and age related issues that are potentially non serviceable are scary.
Thanks guys for the great video. I just bought my 2012 C4 base cabriolet PDK wide body, one of the last 997.2 made before the change over to the 991 about a year ago, late March of 2022, car only had 25,025 miles on it, I now have 27,050 on it. I very much love putting the top down on a nice day versus a coupe, can't do that in a coupe. I'm glad that I bought the .2 for all those reasons you had mentioned in your video.
40-60k, this is something you and I could afford to buy.
Not me lol
What a peasant, lol
You can get a decent 997 for less.
Not us!
Does this guy think we are all rich?? Most of us fight to put food in the table each meal...
40-60k is way more accessible than 125k. It’s all relative.
I am fortunate to own two of the greatest cars ever built - the 2011 997.2 and the 1979 MBZ 450SL - Thank you, Jesus!
One more thing - due to the recession these 997.2's had relatively low production numbers. They're not exactly rare, but if you're looking for specific options it can take years to find the right one. C4S's are definitely the hardest to find out of all the models
Definitely true. Took me 6+ months to find my 09 manual C4S, and I had to road trip to another state to get it!
I got lucky and found the manual C4S convertible with the lap timer. Daily driver.
All of my iPhones pair to my 997.2 PCM3 and have done for the 12 years I've owned it... the issue is you can only use them for phone calls, not music/audio.
Thank you for doing a base C2!
997.2 is the perfect and the cleanest body style of all modern post 2000s Porsche 911s.
Thank you Joe!!
Cross shopped the 997.2 and 991.1 and ended with an 997.2 C2S manual. As a summer car, this is just the perfect car in my opinion. It's one of the very good 911.
Great video as always! Hopefully we could also see a review of the 991.2 GT3 with a manual one day.
This channel has some of the most accurate evaluations of cars online, and better than probably all auto journalists. journalists are all mostly wrong, even chris harris and evo magazine. but this guy knows. he is correct. the 997 controls are ok, but that is all. better than most? yes, but not what they should be.
As owner of this car I have never had a problem pairing my IPhone X with it. Not sure what Jack is referring to in his comment.
It was an option in these cars. My 997.2 has no tech/bluetooth/aux funtion but the cars with the option have all the connectivity ports in the armrest storage compartment. After doing the fister muffler bypass and billy boat center muffler delete I don’t ever feel the need to connect to Bluetooth tho 😏
The iPhone X is the last iPhone to pair reliably. Believe me. The iPhone 11seems to connect, but constantly cuts out. It's a known problem.
Same. My 987.2 has the same PCM 3.0 and I never had trouble pairing my 2 year old LG android.
I never have a problem with pairing my android either!
The iPhone 12 Pro seems to pair and function normally (just got the phone so no long term testing done, but so far it seems to function as well as with the X)
That’s for phone only, no bluetooth audio streaming. Using an Invery Airdual dongle for that stuff, connects to the USB and AUX ports under the armrest. Works pretty well, gives me track names from Spotify/Podcast/Apple Music/whatnot in the PCM :-)
(This is a .2 2011 PCM 3)
A truly classy, elegant sports car. Wonderful review. Was getting so tired of SUV's or Korean cars. This is a car I really enjoy watching a story about. It reminds me of my 2007 987 Boxster.
I’m gonna say it. I like the red interior a lot particularly on a dark color. It’s not a super bright shade at all and you kinda gotta put red on everything at that point or else like a lot of e46 M3s and M coupes with the two tone it’ll look like autozone seat covers or some tasteless Barrett Jackson resto mod.
I have a 997.2 4S and love it. Grew up in WI and miss those roads. Now in Boston and we just don’t have those roads. Kudos.
Hey Mark and Jack, thank you for putting out high quality videos and reviews week in and out. Could you say when the 992 review will be coming out?
Within the next 3 weeks
@@jackholmes8105 I have a quick question. The 991 or is 991.2 more reliable and better car overall.
I love my 911 2009 PDK C4 I went looking back in early 2018 because of the engineering changes its an unbelievable value so happy it is my favorite drive this is a car you drive across the country so comfortable the price keeps going up regardless of mileage love your video thank you
Repair costs keep it from being a "beater". Nice car though
I mean, not real repairs needed outside of the most basic maintenance
And parts in case of a crash
@@TheImperfectGuy that's the hope
@TheImperfectGuy @need metal Exactly - you hope. My friend had one, immaculate condition, low miles, but it still had problems regularly such as faulty sensors. A visit to the dealership to diagnose and fix was an automatic $1,000-$2,000.
@@stonecoldcustoms With so many great indy pcar shops around, there should be no reason to take a 10year old car to the dealership for anything. I'm super happy with my 997.2 that I got this past July!
@@allanchu264 Depends on where you live - not so many great Indy car shops around in Canada. All of eastern canada has a population of like 2,000,000 people for 4 provinces.
Love the pictures of apparently Wisconsin landscape. Good memories to my year in WI. 997.2 is awesome! Love mine to pieces.
Awesome video! I’ve been waiting foe impressions of this car.
Can y’all do the M240i next?
there's an Aux/USB in the center console arm rest. you can buy a bluetooth receiver that plugs directly into this and make the car up-to-date, and the sound quality is not bad either
The red interior is brilliant. If you think otherwise you're a barbarian.
Hideous red interior is hideous.
OMGWTFLOL but kind of cool?
😬
I'll tell you what's best in life... To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the girly men.
It's good because it's not half-assed.
When I saw two other cars there showed where it was mostly the upper half of the seats only, like a tongue on them or something, I didn't like that.
Then consider me Conan because that interior is gaaaahhhd-awful.
I have a manual 997.2 Carrera and it is so sweet to drive on our roads here in the UK. With the back seats folded down it also carries a surprising amount of luggage. It is the ultimate road-trip car for two people. Love it!
Yes, on the wide roads in the US, Savage never talks about width.... on your classic B roads, you feel every mm of width! The new 992 versions especially will seem huge on a UK road, as they are all the wide-body now.
Ahh finally something I can afford. I see it now... Just me, my porsche and my cup noodles for dinner every night.
It's a great car, I will never forget the first time I sat in my uncles 997.2 Carrera S Sport Chrono.
Am I the only one who went straight to the classifieds to see what there is for the 997.2 on the market?
Always looking myself! Lol but then reality hits hard.
@@erikhaw7313 you can always go for a .1 at 15-20k less
As soon as this video is over.....🤣
SavageGeese, brought to you by Patagonia
😆
Loving that Guards Red (I think). Beautiful interior and well maintained.
Looks like Basalt Black to me. Guards Red is an exterior paint color.
@@OMGWTFLOLSMH I stand corrected. Watching too many Porsche West Broward videos....so many colors.
These make great daily’s but wouldn’t scratch the itch for a weekend car. For some perfection is the goal. For others it becomes boring.
Finally something interesting. I can only suffer through corolla videos for so long.