From 1903-1985, coloured interiors were normal and available in all cars, even the least espensive ones. It wasn't until recently that colours were removed to save money and keep choices to a minimum. Now we are offered, grey, beige, taupe, neutral, charcoal etc. All crap. Another thing is even if you do get a coloured interior, 50% of the parts are still black regardless, because it limits cost and inventory.
I’ve owned 2011 C2S 6sp and 2012 GTS 6sp. And have extensively driven almost every series generation. 997.2 is a very special car and will do very well over the long-term. Bullet proof engine and excellent drive feel with some good soul. Also have a 951s and love it.
Not sure you should jinx them by calling them bulletproof. I'm a 996.2 owner and as a close follower of Jake Raby, he's seeing the bore scoring issues that first appeared in the M96 engines working it's way into the newer engines. To me, bullet proof implies you can treat them carelessly and they'll be fine. Instead, I'd say that if you keep the cylinders properly oiled and cooled, then they'll last a long time. This means keeping injectors from leaking and changing the oil every 6 months if you're not driving it much. Also, Raby has said that the DI engines are suffering from problems caused by detonation. Regardless of vintage, I think we'll all agree that a failed engine in a Porsche is going to cost big bucks to resolve.
This is one of my dream cars. I managed to own a 987.2 Manual Cayman for a bit before committing to a mortgage and owning a house. I now own a ND MX5 (cheaper car/cheaper insurance etc). The Mazda puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, but I miss the Porsche everyday.
FORGETFULFOOT I just got a 987.2 Cayman and sold my ND. I agree with you. The ND is a fantastic car and super fun. I wish I could have kept it. But the Porsche has a layer of soul and specialness that the ND lacks. Mods and parts are insanely more expensive though.
I had a 987.1 S. My only complaint was the tall gearing. It also wasn’t a great daily as it was quite loud and stiff, but man, it was such a connected car.
@@RobSchlegel Yeah I actually went from an ND MX5, to a 987.2 in Aqua Blue Metallic, then had a few more cars, then back to the ND again. The main reason I think MX5s are so great is that you can still have a great time if you unfortunately need to put your finances in other more important places. Its a good compromise car for the dude on a average/slightly above average income.
I sold my 1992 NA in 1999 to get into Porsches, all of which I've loved... but I also missed my Miata every day. I finally bought a 1999 NB1 to add to the 997.2 C2S , and find it refreshing to drive a car I can run up to the limiter shift after shift yet barely break the speed limit, or drift around a roundabout without going some insane speed.
Jack: It has been an absolute pleasure watching you grow as a presenter. Now your ability to convey the information is as compelling as your depth of knowledge. Congrats!
Porsche are doing OEM retro fit Apple car play infotainment units now for older models. Might answer one of your concerns around old tech and connectivity 👍
I've been to a few Porsche Club of America autocross events this year and this model always stuck out to me. Like he was saying, it seems like the perfect balance of modern (without being obnoxious) yet old enough to make it feel like an actual car.
Not unlike comparing an E90 BMW with actual steering feel and a playful chassis, to the F30 with the artificial, chalky-steering feel from the electric rack, and soggy road dynamics.
@@lightness1701 lol I'm EVERYWHERE Pleasure to meet you I haven't been on the comment section for a while I've been busy but glad to meet a fellow commenter from TG forums
Love your videos. Masterful production value without taking yourselves too seriously. Honest reviews for real car guys, focusing on what real car guys care about. And Mark's demeanor, which says "I love cars but I'm disappointed that the asteroid hasn't hit yet"
My father always told me.. ( Porsche and Jag specifically ) Whatever the car cost's to buy... Save double that ! Because more than likely that is what you will be spending in maintenance and repairs.
I hope they do go down in the next 2 years. I'm really wanting buy one and the one he has in the video for 50k is immaculate. The ones for 50k now are 15 years old and have 100k miles
I second. It’s so good. My white whale is the 997.2 S, manual. It’s the first car I fell in love with during the test drive. It was like seeing the future. The controls are perfect. Clutch pedal feels engineered. Shifter is perfect. The power is deceptive, and omg the noises. Closest to the spirit of 993. Love, love, love it.
I drove a 997 gt3 on the track and I had a 'never meet your heros' moment. Shifter felt vauge, steering wasnt as its been touted, terminal untersteer, unless you lift your foot a millimeter, then is becomes a whiplash machine. This was on ps4s's. I hopped back in my s2000 and enjoyed my razor sharp front end and wicked lateral G's I could pull.
It was an option in these cars. My 997.2 has no tech/bluetooth/aux funtion but the cars with the option have all the connectivity ports in the armrest storage compartment. After doing the fister muffler bypass and billy boat center muffler delete I don’t ever feel the need to connect to Bluetooth tho 😏
The iPhone 12 Pro seems to pair and function normally (just got the phone so no long term testing done, but so far it seems to function as well as with the X) That’s for phone only, no bluetooth audio streaming. Using an Invery Airdual dongle for that stuff, connects to the USB and AUX ports under the armrest. Works pretty well, gives me track names from Spotify/Podcast/Apple Music/whatnot in the PCM :-) (This is a .2 2011 PCM 3)
Beautiful 997! Love the color combo! One of my favorite color combos. This car is definitely worth the $50k fee. It ages well, drives well, looks good, what else can you ask for? Will other modern $50k look this good after 10yrs? Don’t think so.
One more thing - due to the recession these 997.2's had relatively low production numbers. They're not exactly rare, but if you're looking for specific options it can take years to find the right one. C4S's are definitely the hardest to find out of all the models
These types of reviews are the best content for me. A car I could actually own, it's origin and it's weak spots all in one video is amazing. I enjoy the hell out of history and besides Top Gear, Grand Tour and Throttle House ya'll are the very best in the car journalism industry. Speaking of history tell your partner thank you for the railroad......
Very informative and useful. These are THE cars to own now as they are set to go up as every good dealer out there that specialises in this generation cannot get enough of them; regularly showing 'deposit taken' , 'reserved' or 'sold' within days of being listed on-line.
Its the best 911 since the SC. Which owning a 79SC is saying a lot. It does everything right, and most crucially feels right while doing it. Yes the newer cars are even faster, quieter, handle even better, and are more refined. That is what your extra hundred grand gets you. What it does not get you is much if anything in the way of a more involving driving experience. The 997.2 just feels like the way you know a Porsche should feel. Its not that the newer ones don't, but this one does, and in spades, and for a lot less money. You tracked down a good one here. Great video.
Awesome video like always! It just wouldve been really nice to distinguish better between the 997.1 and the 997.2. The motor in the 997.1 was far from bombproof. It actually had more and more important way more expensive failures than the motor of the 996.2 which was actually really reliable
Mark's exhaust noise complaint is easily remedied with the Sharkwerks center muffler bypass and added to a model that has the Porsche Sports Exhaust it sounds great (or any number of other aftermarket exhausts). Also, the 'S' adds another 40hp which is for sure noticeable as well as larger brakes and PASM is standard. I picked an 997.2 'S' 6-speed last year for a weekend car with a bit more than double the miles of the car featured for less than $50k but still in mint-ish condition. Because PDK came out this generation and because of the lower numbers of production due to the recession a 6-speed 997.2 is a bit rare. I also strongly considered a 991.1 S. The 991 is more refined without the harsh tire noise, arguably better looking and the interior is much more modern, but I felt they were not fully depreciated yet (may be getting close now). For those arguing that $50k is a lot of money for a 10 year old car, you are correct. But you need to factor in depreciation. If you get a good deal, the car will still be worth 90% of its value 5 years hence. Buy something new-ish for $60k and it will be worth half in 5 years - that is $30k of real money. Also the 997.2 is fairly reliable when compared other 10 year old high performance German models. My only complaint is the interior can be prone to rattles which is very annoying given the quality expectations. Oh, and my phone works fine with the bluetooth and it does have USB audio integration.
Have been looking for 997.2 C4S manual but they're super rare . The pdk is good but not as engaging and age related issues that are potentially non serviceable are scary.
I’m gonna say it. I like the red interior a lot particularly on a dark color. It’s not a super bright shade at all and you kinda gotta put red on everything at that point or else like a lot of e46 M3s and M coupes with the two tone it’ll look like autozone seat covers or some tasteless Barrett Jackson resto mod.
Great video as usual, thanks. Your comment at 17min is that it wasn’t exciting enough, no screaming engine, too refined. The Z4 M Coupe from the same time gives you all of that! One shares space in my garage with a 996.2 C2 manual, a less refined more analogue car than this too, although either would do :)
Cross shopped the 997.2 and 991.1 and ended with an 997.2 C2S manual. As a summer car, this is just the perfect car in my opinion. It's one of the very good 911.
Just bought one..I love this dream car..it’s truly the best therapy..handles & is the most beautiful car I have ever owned..I’m older & waited to finally buy one to enjoy w out any regrets..❤️❤️🏎🏎
Great video as usual! One thing to clarify that may be confusing is when you talk about the engine improvements (around 8:18) is that from 2005-2008 (997.1), the 911s used the M97 engines which are not direct injected (and still have the IMS). You mention in 2005 they started to use DI, which isn't the case. The major engine changes are not in these years, but started in 2009 (beginning of the 997.2) using the 9A1 engine with all of the "all new engine designs" you talk about during the engine discussion. Yes, the 997.2 variant is a big difference, but you are incorrectly mentioning the 997.2 improvements during the 997.1 production years. Long time fan, and keep the excellent videos coming!
I have to say, the production quality of this video really is what stands out to me. I love cars, I love driving, car care and wrenching, however by all accounts I am otherwise an underachieving buffoon who will likely die just as broke as I live today, but NOT without the joy of having owned a Porsche 911. Thanks to your video, my sights are set on the goal of a financially responsible purchase of a 997.2 machine, by hook or by crook. Thank you for the inspiration, John
there's an Aux/USB in the center console arm rest. you can buy a bluetooth receiver that plugs directly into this and make the car up-to-date, and the sound quality is not bad either
It's good because it's not half-assed. When I saw two other cars there showed where it was mostly the upper half of the seats only, like a tongue on them or something, I didn't like that.
Dude, I saw the title and tapped on it. While waiting for the page to load I said aloud "ooh I hope this is a savage geese! ... Yeah-haha!" You do a great job, buddy. Congrats on your success.
Just came here as suggested by Google and, Wow. What a beautifully put together vid, with what is still one hell of a beautiful car. Definitely subscribing.
I just sold my 991.1 Carrera S and switched to a 997 Turbo. The 991 never did it for me. Felt too big, too wooden and inert. The 991.2 is better. But the 997 just has that connection to the older 911’s that the 991 and 992 don’t have. The details are small, but they add up. The size and shape of the greenhouse. The flat door cards. The window switches mounted up near the door handle. The low center console. The windshield seemingly right at the back of the gauge binnacle. Hell, even the way the gas cap cover opens. All those details were thrown out with the 991. The 991 is a great car, but it’s missing that connection to the past. Couldn’t be happier with going “backwards”. A 997.2 Carrera or S is just such a joy to drive. Everything just feels “good”. Oh, and avoid the Carbon Fiber in the 997 generation. It cracks pretty badly and regularly.
I will never forget getting into a 993 Turbo. It was Air cooled and I was shocked a car that fast didn’t need a radiator. I like 911 cars and maybe I will own one soon. For me I gotta get the Turbo model. Even a 996 Turbo. Yes even with it’s hated looks. I like Turbo Porsches. (:
Yes! Yes!! the cross from air cooled to current!!! Had a 997.1, made a mistake, sold it. 997.2...has to be the answer. This was an epic comparison or review!!,👍👍👍😎😎 Had a 991, traded back for my 997. Great review. How do you go wrong with any 911? . The steering .. analog...epic👍👍
Loved this video - watched it a few times!! I haven't driven a manual in decades but when dude was about to put the hammer down and was in reverse, I hit the floor!! Great video and love the 997.2!!
Thanks guys for the great video. I just bought my 2012 C4 base cabriolet PDK wide body, one of the last 997.2 made before the change over to the 991 about a year ago, late March of 2022, car only had 25,025 miles on it, I now have 27,050 on it. I very much love putting the top down on a nice day versus a coupe, can't do that in a coupe. I'm glad that I bought the .2 for all those reasons you had mentioned in your video.
7s29 ...Sad, isn’t it. And seemingly for no reason, beyond the initial price being savagely taxed and this initial high buy-in keeps the car beyond mere mortals.
Thank your governments taxation for that... especially the LCT that successfully supported all those dozens of Aussie car makers.... oh wait they are all gone right?
I have a manual 997.2 Carrera and it is so sweet to drive on our roads here in the UK. With the back seats folded down it also carries a surprising amount of luggage. It is the ultimate road-trip car for two people. Love it!
Yes, on the wide roads in the US, Savage never talks about width.... on your classic B roads, you feel every mm of width! The new 992 versions especially will seem huge on a UK road, as they are all the wide-body now.
I bought a 997.2 C2 in April during the shutdown. Best decision I made this year. I’m in love with it. It’s loud and it’s very analog for it only being 10 years old. I think they’re only going to shoot up in price. I think the story of how too many weren’t made because of the recession it makes it very cool.. It was really the key for putting Porsche back on the map after they had the ims bearing issue looming over their shoulders. Once they fixed it and released the 997.2, I think people respected them again and gained buyers trust. The gauges are analog, it’s just such a cool car. I hardly see any for sale now in the US market unless it has bad carfax.
This channel has some of the most accurate evaluations of cars online, and better than probably all auto journalists. journalists are all mostly wrong, even chris harris and evo magazine. but this guy knows. he is correct. the 997 controls are ok, but that is all. better than most? yes, but not what they should be.
Isn’t it true that like 40-50% of Americans have enough savings to last them one week lol, but yet this is a car we can all afford? A $50k used Porsche?
Wrong choice of words but you seem to miss what they are trying to say. It's in the Corvette price range which was always labeled as the "common or poor man's supercar." The price is within reach for some in the middle class. A brand new 911 isn't.
Navigation, BT phone connectivity, BT voice control and USB /aux inputs ("universal audio interface") were separate options. All of my modern phones connect to BT with no issues. I don't believe BT audio was an option, but can be added by purchasing a factory iPod integration cable and a BOVEE Tune2Air module. I've had my 997.2 C2S for over 5 years, it's a super-practical everyday sports car.
Great video and great car (look so new)! I have a 997 CS Gen 1. Agree that it is a great mechanical feeling Porsche. On public roads, I enjoy driving it more than my BMW M4. My 997 is a keeper!
Great video, ’m gonna disagreeing with you on the lack infotainment system, I also own a 2009 Carrera S, the BT phone connectivity works perfectly, also I’m using a INVERY Bluetooth music adapter through the iPod port for the Bluetooth music streaming.
A lot of misinformation in the shop section. The 997.1 was the introduction is PASM, not the 997.2. PSM was introduced on the 996 but was improved every generation. The 993 was the first 911 with ceramic brakes, not the 997. The 997.1 was not direct injected on the base or S model. DFI came with the completely new MA1 engine in the 997.2. The 997.1 just had a revised version of the M96 from the 996 called the M97. Still port injected, still susceptible to bore scoring.
All of our info came directly from Porsche USA Press releases and from our north American porsche press rep. The 997 were the first Carrera and Carrera S models offered with PCS "For the first time, Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes are available on the 911 Carrera and 911 Carrera S. Previously, they were available only on special models, such as the Porsche 911 Turbo."- quote from Porsche official north american press release circa 2005 for the 997 911. When we spoke about the engine we only were speaking about the 997.2 not referring to the 997.1. We should of done a better job of specifying which generation we were talking about at any time which is our fault. Not sure what was wrong with the PSM statement. As their improvements to PSM from the 996 into the 997 did make it modern In regards to PASM, i said one of the first generations not the first generation of PASM, again should of specified more specifically.
Not knocking any of the brands you listed, but JD Power is one of the worst sources of info. Their ratings are chock full of confirmation bias at best, and sold to the highest bidder at worst.
@@drewgo224 Ok you said your piece. Now, do you expect me to ask you to quantify your claims or just conclude you a troll who doesn't actually care about facts and figures but wants to post shock/awe comments to smear someone else?
@@exothermal.sprocket woah, trying to be helpful. My comment wasn't trying to challenge you, but to challenge JD Power. No need to escalate, I'm pro-consumer here and on your side. I thought it was something thats well known in the car community but here are some sources www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/can-you-trust-those-awards-you-see-in-auto-ads/ wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/why-consumer-reports-and-j-d-power-are-so-different/ www.google.com/amp/s/jalopnik.com/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-jd-power-a-1818818969/amp amp.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/6j2v6h/are_jd_power_awards_mostly_bullshit/ www.google.com/amp/s/iamcorrect.wordpress.com/2016/12/14/jd-powers-is-a-scam/amp/ www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-goods/2018/11/27/18105479/jd-power-car-commercials Long story short they have horrible practices to ever come close to a legitimate ratings agency.
@@drewgo224 Thanks for clearing your motives more thoroughly. And for providing the links. So what would you offer as a good rating in the most recent years about brands?
@@exothermal.sprocket Consumer Reports hands down. They keep their name from being associated with advertisements, perform long term proper journalism and studies, and exist to serve the people.
I've owned one of these for last 2 years, basically same spec as this one (Black 6spd base Carrera, no PASM) but with black interior and no carbon bits, bought with 115k miles on the clock (so was cheap for a .2), now has 135k on the clock, has cost me about $5k in maintenance over the 2 years (at Porsche dealer rates), so yeah, not 'cheap' but not awful really either. My 2yr old Pixel 3 pairs just fine with the bluetooth, and mine has factory USB, iPod classic interface, just have an old HDD iPod in the centre console as jukebox. It is a really lovely car, don't regret my purchase one bit, it drives fantastic and the interior has just the right level of tech to be useable without feeling ancient... Except the Nav... That is terrible! Enjoyed the vid, thanks.
Great review, have a low mileage, 2009 carrera, it's great on the road and track, and it seems like an extension of your body, everything works and feels good.
![Last Of Its Kind - Porsche 911 Carrera (997.2) [911OBSESSED]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BUmH5LVaGQc/mqdefault.jpg)
What trim pieces and accents would you like to be in red?
Owner: yes
Wtf its not funny anymore gtfo
@@r7z859 It's not even the worst application of that tiresome unwitty meme that I have found. In this case, I can kinda see it work.
As it should be.
@@Dowlphin talks a guy with profile pic of my little pony? Tf
From 1903-1985, coloured interiors were normal and available in all cars, even the least espensive ones. It wasn't until recently that colours were removed to save money and keep choices to a minimum. Now we are offered, grey, beige, taupe, neutral, charcoal etc. All crap. Another thing is even if you do get a coloured interior, 50% of the parts are still black regardless, because it limits cost and inventory.
Finally, a car I can eat spaghetti in without worry
😂😂😂
Not that one, its too nice
🍝💯
Bad advice, my 911 smells like spaghetti sauce.
Mrs Spaghetti would be so proud.
I’ve owned 2011 C2S 6sp and 2012 GTS 6sp. And have extensively driven almost every series generation. 997.2 is a very special car and will do very well over the long-term. Bullet proof engine and excellent drive feel with some good soul. Also have a 951s and love it.
Cheers for the 951 club, i miss mine now.
Not sure you should jinx them by calling them bulletproof. I'm a 996.2 owner and as a close follower of Jake Raby, he's seeing the bore scoring issues that first appeared in the M96 engines working it's way into the newer engines. To me, bullet proof implies you can treat them carelessly and they'll be fine. Instead, I'd say that if you keep the cylinders properly oiled and cooled, then they'll last a long time. This means keeping injectors from leaking and changing the oil every 6 months if you're not driving it much. Also, Raby has said that the DI engines are suffering from problems caused by detonation. Regardless of vintage, I think we'll all agree that a failed engine in a Porsche is going to cost big bucks to resolve.
@@georgiapatriot4575 I have switched exclusively to Driven DI synthetic per Baby's advice.
Is the GTS with the extra $15k-20k? I’m in the market for a 997.2 C2S or Gts 6mt to replace my 09 c2 pdk
How do you find the 997.2 compared to the 991?
This is one of my dream cars. I managed to own a 987.2 Manual Cayman for a bit before committing to a mortgage and owning a house. I now own a ND MX5 (cheaper car/cheaper insurance etc). The Mazda puts a smile on my face every time I drive it, but I miss the Porsche everyday.
FORGETFULFOOT I just got a 987.2 Cayman and sold my ND. I agree with you. The ND is a fantastic car and super fun. I wish I could have kept it. But the Porsche has a layer of soul and specialness that the ND lacks. Mods and parts are insanely more expensive though.
Same here...one day it'll happen again.
I had a 987.1 S. My only complaint was the tall gearing. It also wasn’t a great daily as it was quite loud and stiff, but man, it was such a connected car.
@@RobSchlegel Yeah I actually went from an ND MX5, to a 987.2 in Aqua Blue Metallic, then had a few more cars, then back to the ND again. The main reason I think MX5s are so great is that you can still have a great time if you unfortunately need to put your finances in other more important places. Its a good compromise car for the dude on a average/slightly above average income.
I sold my 1992 NA in 1999 to get into Porsches, all of which I've loved... but I also missed my Miata every day. I finally bought a 1999 NB1 to add to the 997.2 C2S , and find it refreshing to drive a car I can run up to the limiter shift after shift yet barely break the speed limit, or drift around a roundabout without going some insane speed.
Jack: It has been an absolute pleasure watching you grow as a presenter. Now your ability to convey the information is as compelling as your depth of knowledge. Congrats!
Thank you chadd. I appreciate it
@@jackholmes8105 it has made these videos that much better, your presentation with mark is not something found anywhere else
So.. why are you Jack "Singapore"!?
Porsche are doing OEM retro fit Apple car play infotainment units now for older models. Might answer one of your concerns around old tech and connectivity 👍
Great review. One note: Everybody always who claims 2+2s don’t have space in the rear don’t have kids.
Yes, this was actually a great "family sports car" until this year - my 12yo no longer fits in the back, and the 10yo wouldn't be very comfortable.
I fit in the back of one of these. Not "comfy", but I'd do it for an hour or so just because its fun to ride in.
I honestly would love a 2+2 just because it has space in the back for my stuff so I don't have to use the trunk all the time.
I've been to a few Porsche Club of America autocross events this year and this model always stuck out to me. Like he was saying, it seems like the perfect balance of modern (without being obnoxious) yet old enough to make it feel like an actual car.
Not unlike comparing an E90 BMW with actual steering feel and a playful chassis, to the F30 with the artificial, chalky-steering feel from the electric rack, and soggy road dynamics.
E90 has crap steering feel too
Big thank you, Joe, for letting them have their way with this car and the Z3 clown shoes
I absolutely love the “Marry a Doctor or a Stripper” analogy!
Can't believe that line made it to the final cut loll
Better yet, marry the doctor who paid her way through medical school by moonlighting as a stripper. 😏
@@CarlVandenberg what car would that be?
@@palmermonsen9098 That car has to be the new C8 Corvette !
@@CarlVandenberg .. Give that man a cigar! Correct answer is; Marry a Doctor who’s afforded medical school as a Striper. That cracks me up.
Such a beautiful car, even 10 years later. Love that interior and exterior.
The 997 is one of the best looking Porsches ever made
Man it has aged so well!
It looks like a big eyed fish. I always hated that design. I don’t know why they keep that on every porsche
Beautiful proportions rival Aston Martins
The Audi 5 coupe is also timeless
Dang, I never expected to see you outside of the TG forums. (Janitor_genie here)
@@lightness1701 lol I'm EVERYWHERE
Pleasure to meet you I haven't been on the comment section for a while I've been busy but glad to meet a fellow commenter from TG forums
Thank you for letting Mark and Jack review this car! These Porsches are ageless and just beautiful.
Love your videos. Masterful production value without taking yourselves too seriously. Honest reviews for real car guys, focusing on what real car guys care about. And Mark's demeanor, which says "I love cars but I'm disappointed that the asteroid hasn't hit yet"
Remember: It may be a 50k car now, but still requires parts for a 120k car.
That's what makes it a 50k buy-in
My father always told me..
( Porsche and Jag specifically )
Whatever the car cost's to buy...
Save double that !
Because more than likely that is what you will be spending in maintenance and repairs.
😭
Engine in the back means you have to bend over to fix it.
Good thing Porsches are pretty damn reliable. But it is indeed pricey.
I love watching these videos before work.
I love watching at work
weirdshibainu 😂😅
Love you guys' dry wit and the sort of review style that's relevant to the everyman.
0:55 It's like a 90's intro montage to a serial show. Love it & the 996/997. Really diggin the Porsche love. :-)
Peak of Jack’s reviews - man has become a great reviewer.
Thanks. It has been a constant struggle. I appreciate the kind words
Crazy how the prices went up from only like 1 1/2 years ago. Would love to get to drive one of these one day.
Like 90k to 100k now
I hope they do go down in the next 2 years. I'm really wanting buy one and the one he has in the video for 50k is immaculate. The ones for 50k now are 15 years old and have 100k miles
They were under valued for too long, the values will stay high because 911’s age well
The manuals are rare....
Probably one of the best cars ever made imho.
I second. It’s so good. My white whale is the 997.2 S, manual. It’s the first car I fell in love with during the test drive. It was like seeing the future. The controls are perfect. Clutch pedal feels engineered. Shifter is perfect. The power is deceptive, and omg the noises. Closest to the spirit of 993. Love, love, love it.
I drove a 997 gt3 on the track and I had a 'never meet your heros' moment. Shifter felt vauge, steering wasnt as its been touted, terminal untersteer, unless you lift your foot a millimeter, then is becomes a whiplash machine. This was on ps4s's. I hopped back in my s2000 and enjoyed my razor sharp front end and wicked lateral G's I could pull.
As owner of this car I have never had a problem pairing my IPhone X with it. Not sure what Jack is referring to in his comment.
It was an option in these cars. My 997.2 has no tech/bluetooth/aux funtion but the cars with the option have all the connectivity ports in the armrest storage compartment. After doing the fister muffler bypass and billy boat center muffler delete I don’t ever feel the need to connect to Bluetooth tho 😏
The iPhone X is the last iPhone to pair reliably. Believe me. The iPhone 11seems to connect, but constantly cuts out. It's a known problem.
Same. My 987.2 has the same PCM 3.0 and I never had trouble pairing my 2 year old LG android.
I never have a problem with pairing my android either!
The iPhone 12 Pro seems to pair and function normally (just got the phone so no long term testing done, but so far it seems to function as well as with the X)
That’s for phone only, no bluetooth audio streaming. Using an Invery Airdual dongle for that stuff, connects to the USB and AUX ports under the armrest. Works pretty well, gives me track names from Spotify/Podcast/Apple Music/whatnot in the PCM :-)
(This is a .2 2011 PCM 3)
Watching this 2 years later makes me want to cry......because NOW 997.2s are $$$$$$$$
Wish they were still 40 to 60k for a really nice one.
Beautiful 997! Love the color combo! One of my favorite color combos. This car is definitely worth the $50k fee. It ages well, drives well, looks good, what else can you ask for? Will other modern $50k look this good after 10yrs? Don’t think so.
“Analog” was the first word that came to mind when I drove my friend’s 997.
The best in the business in terms of the engineering review (in the shoppe segment). Also like how they summarize the review BRAVO.
One more thing - due to the recession these 997.2's had relatively low production numbers. They're not exactly rare, but if you're looking for specific options it can take years to find the right one. C4S's are definitely the hardest to find out of all the models
Definitely true. Took me 6+ months to find my 09 manual C4S, and I had to road trip to another state to get it!
I got lucky and found the manual C4S convertible with the lap timer. Daily driver.
These types of reviews are the best content for me.
A car I could actually own, it's origin and it's weak spots all in one video is amazing. I enjoy the hell out of history and besides Top Gear, Grand Tour and Throttle House ya'll are the very best in the car journalism industry. Speaking of history tell your partner thank you for the railroad......
Very informative and useful. These are THE cars to own now as they are set to go up as every good dealer out there that specialises in this generation cannot get enough of them; regularly showing 'deposit taken' , 'reserved' or 'sold' within days of being listed on-line.
Well done gentlemen......good points all, as usual.....agree with Samsgarden, lack of useless tech and distracting computer screen is refreshing
Its the best 911 since the SC. Which owning a 79SC is saying a lot. It does everything right, and most crucially feels right while doing it. Yes the newer cars are even faster, quieter, handle even better, and are more refined. That is what your extra hundred grand gets you. What it does not get you is much if anything in the way of a more involving driving experience. The 997.2 just feels like the way you know a Porsche should feel. Its not that the newer ones don't, but this one does, and in spades, and for a lot less money. You tracked down a good one here. Great video.
Awesome video like always! It just wouldve been really nice to distinguish better between the 997.1 and the 997.2. The motor in the 997.1 was far from bombproof. It actually had more and more important way more expensive failures than the motor of the 996.2 which was actually really reliable
The research these guys put into the videos is mind-gurgling.
Mark's exhaust noise complaint is easily remedied with the Sharkwerks center muffler bypass and added to a model that has the Porsche Sports Exhaust it sounds great (or any number of other aftermarket exhausts). Also, the 'S' adds another 40hp which is for sure noticeable as well as larger brakes and PASM is standard. I picked an 997.2 'S' 6-speed last year for a weekend car with a bit more than double the miles of the car featured for less than $50k but still in mint-ish condition. Because PDK came out this generation and because of the lower numbers of production due to the recession a 6-speed 997.2 is a bit rare. I also strongly considered a 991.1 S. The 991 is more refined without the harsh tire noise, arguably better looking and the interior is much more modern, but I felt they were not fully depreciated yet (may be getting close now). For those arguing that $50k is a lot of money for a 10 year old car, you are correct. But you need to factor in depreciation. If you get a good deal, the car will still be worth 90% of its value 5 years hence. Buy something new-ish for $60k and it will be worth half in 5 years - that is $30k of real money. Also the 997.2 is fairly reliable when compared other 10 year old high performance German models. My only complaint is the interior can be prone to rattles which is very annoying given the quality expectations. Oh, and my phone works fine with the bluetooth and it does have USB audio integration.
Great comment. Should have gotten more 👍s.
Have been looking for 997.2 C4S manual but they're super rare . The pdk is good but not as engaging and age related issues that are potentially non serviceable are scary.
Joe you are special dude! Both your cars are great. Thanks for letting SG thrash you babies.
I’m gonna say it. I like the red interior a lot particularly on a dark color. It’s not a super bright shade at all and you kinda gotta put red on everything at that point or else like a lot of e46 M3s and M coupes with the two tone it’ll look like autozone seat covers or some tasteless Barrett Jackson resto mod.
Great video as usual, thanks. Your comment at 17min is that it wasn’t exciting enough, no screaming engine, too refined. The Z4 M Coupe from the same time gives you all of that! One shares space in my garage with a 996.2 C2 manual, a less refined more analogue car than this too, although either would do :)
Thanks Joe, That's a great daily driver.
Cross shopped the 997.2 and 991.1 and ended with an 997.2 C2S manual. As a summer car, this is just the perfect car in my opinion. It's one of the very good 911.
Just bought one..I love this dream car..it’s truly the best therapy..handles & is the most beautiful car I have ever owned..I’m older & waited to finally buy one to enjoy w out any regrets..❤️❤️🏎🏎
Thanks for letting all of us check out your sweet car, Joe! Too bad it's "too good" for Mark to like 🤣
997.2 is the perfect and the cleanest body style of all modern post 2000s Porsche 911s.
Great video as usual! One thing to clarify that may be confusing is when you talk about the engine improvements (around 8:18) is that from 2005-2008 (997.1), the 911s used the M97 engines which are not direct injected (and still have the IMS). You mention in 2005 they started to use DI, which isn't the case. The major engine changes are not in these years, but started in 2009 (beginning of the 997.2) using the 9A1 engine with all of the "all new engine designs" you talk about during the engine discussion. Yes, the 997.2 variant is a big difference, but you are incorrectly mentioning the 997.2 improvements during the 997.1 production years. Long time fan, and keep the excellent videos coming!
This looks absolutely gorgeous from every angle, the perfect 911 to me
I have to say, the production quality of this video really is what stands out to me. I love cars, I love driving, car care and wrenching, however by all accounts I am otherwise an underachieving buffoon who will likely die just as broke as I live today, but NOT without the joy of having owned a Porsche 911. Thanks to your video, my sights are set on the goal of a financially responsible purchase of a 997.2 machine, by hook or by crook.
Thank you for the inspiration,
John
As always, very informative! Looking forward to the 992 review
there's an Aux/USB in the center console arm rest. you can buy a bluetooth receiver that plugs directly into this and make the car up-to-date, and the sound quality is not bad either
I was between a Base .2 or an S .1 ... opted for the S, what a car! Love it too much!
On the fence about this call currently but getting a .2 base.
The red interior is brilliant. If you think otherwise you're a barbarian.
Hideous red interior is hideous.
OMGWTFLOL but kind of cool?
😬
I'll tell you what's best in life... To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the girly men.
It's good because it's not half-assed.
When I saw two other cars there showed where it was mostly the upper half of the seats only, like a tongue on them or something, I didn't like that.
Then consider me Conan because that interior is gaaaahhhd-awful.
Dude, I saw the title and tapped on it. While waiting for the page to load I said aloud "ooh I hope this is a savage geese! ... Yeah-haha!" You do a great job, buddy. Congrats on your success.
Hey Mark and Jack, thank you for putting out high quality videos and reviews week in and out. Could you say when the 992 review will be coming out?
Within the next 3 weeks
@@jackholmes8105 I have a quick question. The 991 or is 991.2 more reliable and better car overall.
I couldn't stay with the video after 2mins looking at that interior. I'm sure someone loved it, but that's a psychedelic visual I can do without.
Great video as always! Hopefully we could also see a review of the 991.2 GT3 with a manual one day.
At the risk of sounding like a Boomer about the 60's cars, but mid 2000's cars were the sweet spot for me, analog yet modern enough 🙏🏻
I am fortunate to own two of the greatest cars ever built - the 2011 997.2 and the 1979 MBZ 450SL - Thank you, Jesus!
Just came here as suggested by Google and, Wow. What a beautifully put together vid, with what is still one hell of a beautiful car. Definitely subscribing.
Ahh finally something I can afford. I see it now... Just me, my porsche and my cup noodles for dinner every night.
I just sold my 991.1 Carrera S and switched to a 997 Turbo. The 991 never did it for me. Felt too big, too wooden and inert. The 991.2 is better. But the 997 just has that connection to the older 911’s that the 991 and 992 don’t have. The details are small, but they add up. The size and shape of the greenhouse. The flat door cards. The window switches mounted up near the door handle. The low center console. The windshield seemingly right at the back of the gauge binnacle. Hell, even the way the gas cap cover opens. All those details were thrown out with the 991. The 991 is a great car, but it’s missing that connection to the past.
Couldn’t be happier with going “backwards”. A 997.2 Carrera or S is just such a joy to drive. Everything just feels “good”.
Oh, and avoid the Carbon Fiber in the 997 generation. It cracks pretty badly and regularly.
I will never forget getting into a 993 Turbo. It was Air cooled and I was shocked a car that fast didn’t need a radiator. I like 911 cars and maybe I will own one soon. For me I gotta get the Turbo model. Even a 996 Turbo. Yes even with it’s hated looks. I like Turbo Porsches. (:
Thank you Joe!!!
Yes! Yes!! the cross from air cooled to current!!! Had a 997.1, made a mistake, sold it. 997.2...has to be the answer. This was an epic comparison or review!!,👍👍👍😎😎 Had a 991, traded back for my 997. Great review. How do you go wrong with any 911? . The steering .. analog...epic👍👍
“This is the equivalent of marrying a doctor instead of a stripper.” 😂😂😂 bravo!
Funny! I just used that same analogy today.
Loving that Guards Red (I think). Beautiful interior and well maintained.
Looks like Basalt Black to me. Guards Red is an exterior paint color.
@@OMGWTFLOLSMH I stand corrected. Watching too many Porsche West Broward videos....so many colors.
there is WAY too much red in that cabin.
Let’s bring sexy back
for YOU, maybe--i DIG it
subjective
I LOVE the red!
Any amount of bright red in a cabin is too much, for me. I hate red interiors. If you love red though, I guess this is your dream cabin.
Loved this video - watched it a few times!! I haven't driven a manual in decades but when dude was about to put the hammer down and was in reverse, I hit the floor!! Great video and love the 997.2!!
Thanks guys for the great video. I just bought my 2012 C4 base cabriolet PDK wide body, one of the last 997.2 made before the change over to the 991 about a year ago, late March of 2022, car only had 25,025 miles on it, I now have 27,050 on it. I very much love putting the top down on a nice day versus a coupe, can't do that in a coupe. I'm glad that I bought the .2 for all those reasons you had mentioned in your video.
In Australia that car sells for $150k - $200k. The average person will never own one.
7s29 ...Sad, isn’t it. And seemingly for no reason, beyond the initial price being savagely taxed and this initial high buy-in keeps the car beyond mere mortals.
A 4S would be 150 but a plain Carrera should be a fair bit less. But literally zero manual Carreras for sale in Australia right now.
Thank your governments taxation for that... especially the LCT that successfully supported all those dozens of Aussie car makers.... oh wait they are all gone right?
C Macd kind of. I mean that is part of it but Porsche in Australia is particularly overpriced compared to say BMW or whatever.
same in Brazil, kinda impossible for a "normal" worker.
It's a great car, I will never forget the first time I sat in my uncles 997.2 Carrera S Sport Chrono.
I have a manual 997.2 Carrera and it is so sweet to drive on our roads here in the UK. With the back seats folded down it also carries a surprising amount of luggage. It is the ultimate road-trip car for two people. Love it!
Yes, on the wide roads in the US, Savage never talks about width.... on your classic B roads, you feel every mm of width! The new 992 versions especially will seem huge on a UK road, as they are all the wide-body now.
That's on my "bucket list" for dream cars. You guys did a great video as usual.
I sold my '10 Carrera S 2 years ago. WTF was I thinking?
If I could afford one I would never sell it.
Im sure your marriage is better
I have a 997.2 4S and love it. Grew up in WI and miss those roads. Now in Boston and we just don’t have those roads. Kudos.
I bought a 997.2 C2 in April during the shutdown. Best decision I made this year. I’m in love with it. It’s loud and it’s very analog for it only being 10 years old. I think they’re only going to shoot up in price. I think the story of how too many weren’t made because of the recession it makes it very cool.. It was really the key for putting Porsche back on the map after they had the ims bearing issue looming over their shoulders. Once they fixed it and released the 997.2, I think people respected them again and gained buyers trust. The gauges are analog, it’s just such a cool car. I hardly see any for sale now in the US market unless it has bad carfax.
This channel has some of the most accurate evaluations of cars online, and better than probably all auto journalists. journalists are all mostly wrong, even chris harris and evo magazine. but this guy knows. he is correct. the 997 controls are ok, but that is all. better than most? yes, but not what they should be.
Base carrera with euro spec suspension with 6 speed is tough to beat when it comes to driving sensation when pushed without arrest me speed!!!😍
Awesome video! I’ve been waiting foe impressions of this car.
Can y’all do the M240i next?
Loving the music as always, just adds an extra layer of enjoyment to the already stellar reviews!
Isn’t it true that like 40-50% of Americans have enough savings to last them one week lol, but yet this is a car we can all afford? A $50k used Porsche?
these guys are calling it a Beater so...
Wrong choice of words but you seem to miss what they are trying to say. It's in the Corvette price range which was always labeled as the "common or poor man's supercar."
The price is within reach for some in the middle class. A brand new 911 isn't.
The magic of finance :)
It’s obvious you haven’t been in the market for one...
the red interior looks like japanese Ultraman 😍
***THANKS JOE*** (Owner)
Thanks Joe for letting us check out your cars. 👍
God knows I love this channel so much. Thanks for delivering so much every damn time.
I really really like these reviews on older cars. This one, the Viper and the F-type videos were phenomenal.
Navigation, BT phone connectivity, BT voice control and USB /aux inputs ("universal audio interface") were separate options. All of my modern phones connect to BT with no issues.
I don't believe BT audio was an option, but can be added by purchasing a factory iPod integration cable and a BOVEE Tune2Air module.
I've had my 997.2 C2S for over 5 years, it's a super-practical everyday sports car.
Great video and great car (look so new)! I have a 997 CS Gen 1. Agree that it is a great mechanical feeling Porsche. On public roads, I enjoy driving it more than my BMW M4. My 997 is a keeper!
They cost 40 to 50?? How come every time I see one at a carmax theyre like 75?
Maybe the non-S models are that cheap
A 991 S is around 75k right now.
Those online dealers mark up heavily. Never buy from them.
Great video, ’m gonna disagreeing with you on the lack infotainment system, I also own a 2009 Carrera S, the BT phone connectivity works perfectly, also I’m using a INVERY Bluetooth music adapter through the iPod port for the Bluetooth music streaming.
A lot of misinformation in the shop section. The 997.1 was the introduction is PASM, not the 997.2. PSM was introduced on the 996 but was improved every generation. The 993 was the first 911 with ceramic brakes, not the 997. The 997.1 was not direct injected on the base or S model. DFI came with the completely new MA1 engine in the 997.2. The 997.1 just had a revised version of the M96 from the 996 called the M97. Still port injected, still susceptible to bore scoring.
All of our info came directly from Porsche USA Press releases and from our north American porsche press rep.
The 997 were the first Carrera and Carrera S models offered with PCS "For the first time, Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes are available on the 911 Carrera and 911 Carrera S. Previously, they were available only on special models, such as the Porsche 911 Turbo."- quote from Porsche official north american press release circa 2005 for the 997 911.
When we spoke about the engine we only were speaking about the 997.2 not referring to the 997.1. We should of done a better job of specifying which generation we were talking about at any time which is our fault.
Not sure what was wrong with the PSM statement. As their improvements to PSM from the 996 into the 997 did make it modern
In regards to PASM, i said one of the first generations not the first generation of PASM, again should of specified more specifically.
yay, finally a 997. I enjoy my 997.1 but would honestly rather have a 987 cayman R or 987 boxster spyder.
Thanks a ton for offering up your cars Joe!
2019 JD Power dependability study, Porsche came in #2, only to Lexus at #1 and Toyota at #3.
Not knocking any of the brands you listed, but JD Power is one of the worst sources of info. Their ratings are chock full of confirmation bias at best, and sold to the highest bidder at worst.
@@drewgo224 Ok you said your piece. Now, do you expect me to ask you to quantify your claims or just conclude you a troll who doesn't actually care about facts and figures but wants to post shock/awe comments to smear someone else?
@@exothermal.sprocket woah, trying to be helpful. My comment wasn't trying to challenge you, but to challenge JD Power. No need to escalate, I'm pro-consumer here and on your side.
I thought it was something thats well known in the car community but here are some sources
www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/can-you-trust-those-awards-you-see-in-auto-ads/
wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/why-consumer-reports-and-j-d-power-are-so-different/
www.google.com/amp/s/jalopnik.com/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-the-jd-power-a-1818818969/amp
amp.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/6j2v6h/are_jd_power_awards_mostly_bullshit/
www.google.com/amp/s/iamcorrect.wordpress.com/2016/12/14/jd-powers-is-a-scam/amp/
www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-goods/2018/11/27/18105479/jd-power-car-commercials
Long story short they have horrible practices to ever come close to a legitimate ratings agency.
@@drewgo224 Thanks for clearing your motives more thoroughly. And for providing the links.
So what would you offer as a good rating in the most recent years about brands?
@@exothermal.sprocket Consumer Reports hands down. They keep their name from being associated with advertisements, perform long term proper journalism and studies, and exist to serve the people.
Carbon ceramic brakes were actually a very expensive option on the 996.2 and Standard on the 996 Turbo S. So this wasn't the first 911 to have them.
2010 is my favorite year for cars. So many great vehicles.
The interior looks like a mcdonalds play place
Nah.
I've owned one of these for last 2 years, basically same spec as this one (Black 6spd base Carrera, no PASM) but with black interior and no carbon bits, bought with 115k miles on the clock (so was cheap for a .2), now has 135k on the clock, has cost me about $5k in maintenance over the 2 years (at Porsche dealer rates), so yeah, not 'cheap' but not awful really either. My 2yr old Pixel 3 pairs just fine with the bluetooth, and mine has factory USB, iPod classic interface, just have an old HDD iPod in the centre console as jukebox. It is a really lovely car, don't regret my purchase one bit, it drives fantastic and the interior has just the right level of tech to be useable without feeling ancient... Except the Nav... That is terrible! Enjoyed the vid, thanks.
Love the 997.2, no IMS issues and the last "small" 911.
i wouldn't call a 50k Porsche a beater though
Track beater, maybe
Damned good review. Insightful and informative. Appreciated the under car chat about the improvements over the 997.1.
Great review, have a low mileage, 2009 carrera, it's great on the road and track, and it seems like an extension of your body, everything works and feels good.