The Omnipresent Fear of Death
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ย. 2023
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As far back as we have literary reports -- beginning with the Epic of Gilgamesh, our earliest surviving narrative, written centuries before the oldest accounts of the Bible -- humans have feared death more than almost anything. Many people fear the process of dying; others fear facing eternal torment; yet others fear the void, the idea of non-existence. In this episode we talk about ancient reflections on death and about why some stalwart souls insisted that in fact there was nothing to fear.
This week Megan asks Bart--
-How far back can we trace the fear of death in human culture?
-What about Greek and Jewish culture? Was there anything to fear about the afterlife?
-The ancient afterlife sounds like a pretty grim place, regardless of what gods you followed! Does the Bible speak at all about a fear of death?
-Christian tradition was obviously influenced by the cultures around it, particularly Greek and Israelite culture - how did ancient Greek and Jewish thinkers try to deal with the fear of death?
-What would early Christians have believed about life after death?
-Do the earliest Christians seem to have the idea of an e-clusive resurrection, one just for followers of Jesus?
-Is the book of Daniel the original source for our modern understanding of heaven and hell?
-When did the idea of a spiritual resurrection start to take over from the bodily resurrection?
-When you start to get this idea of spiritual resurrection, would the idea of heaven have presented an attractive option to non-Christians, especially in contrast to their own afterlife?
-Did this role change substantially over time?
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After seeing this title uploaded 3 times now, I’m renaming it The Omnipresent Fear of Megan and Bart! 😂.
or perhaps the omnipresent fear of reincarnation
Maybe they should change the title😂
😂😂😂
😅
Monty Python: “It’s the Mind”.
I have a fear of this episode being uploaded again 😮
😂😂😂
Previous one was th-cam.com/video/hSvmw9SXbcw/w-d-xo.html
I was raised catholic but I lost my faith, I used to be depressed that I no longer believed “and they all lived happily ever after”, childish I know, but I got over that by changing the phrase in my head to “and they all lived happily”
I’m missing the context here. To what particular story do you refer?
I was raised Catholic too. I kind of knew it was bullshit at around 8 when they tried to tell me that unbaptized babies that died did not go directly to heaven, they went to "Limbo" because they carried "Original Sin" What a crock of shit.
“Who wants to live forever anyway?”
~ (Freddy Mercury) 🎶
I do
And don't forget the joker
It is good to hear Bart talk about the process of dying in addition to death itself. Science has been beneficial in some ways but has created new problems. The ability to prolong life sadly brings the issue of quality of life into focus. Few of us want to be hooked up to machines. We don’t want to be wearing diapers. Drooling. Brain dead. Death is a welcome prospect when it means the end of suffering. Religion makes death fearful when it creates the prospect of endless suffering.
The idea of non-existence is not frightening to me since I've already done it before. I suspect that after I die, it will be very similar to what it was like before I was born.
Same here. Getting old scares me, but dying doesn't.
Except this time your non-existence won't be followed by existence as it was before you were born. And it will last forever (compared to the 14 billion years of your pre-life). Death should be feared.
Nonsense. You are merely rationalizing. Fear of death is innate. We all have it.
@@jeffryphillipsburns How can you possibly know or prove that?
@@jeffryphillipsburnsfear of the act of dying maybe, but being dead maybe not
Im a Southern Baptist minister who believes in inerrancy of Scripture, yet I buy every Ehrman book I can get my hands on. Its refreshing to have someone actually tell me what's going on with the Bible instead of having to wade through biases and propaganda! God bless you Dr. Ehrman.
Don't you have any fear that you'll lost your faith?
Therefore do you believe in supernatural literalism?
When examining the supernatural aspects of Scripture, if this was in a non-Abrahamic context, these aspects might be described in Western academia as myths, legends and in some cases as superstitions.
However, Abrahamic culture is much more dominant and taken more literally. Therefore we have terms such as Greek myths but not Hebrew myths. Good luck to anyone openly using the term Arabic myths, unless mentioning it was outside of the Muslim context.
@@LeoPriester not at all. I havent read anything from Ehrman that has made me question my faith. I cherish scripture and I havent read anything from Ehrman that has caused that to change. I doubt he would want that to change. I believe in God. I believe all truth is God's truth. If something is true, it reflects God's nature. Unfortunately many theologians try to cover up the truth because they think they are helping God. Read what happened to Uzzah in 2 Samuel 6 when he did that.
@@fortpark-wd9sx I believe God speaks to His people through the stories we have in scripture.
@@kirbinator5000
You don't need this fools interpretation of the word.
This is like the third time I've seen this video uploaded... and they've all been different every single time
Hi Megan! So glad you are our host! You are tops!
This is the 3rd time being uploaded what's going on?
🤷♂️
(It isn't groundhog day is it?!)
Whats funny is I watch it each time
Excellent dialog! Well structured! Thanks Bart and Megan!
The double meaning verse, wow just wow! You two are treasures!
Why would non existence be so fear inspiring? Given the size of the multiverse all things must repeat again and again. Non existence is a welcome break.
I love Megan's glasses. I wish I could have a fun rotation like that, but the frame change would probably distract me.
Hey Bart! Are you okay? What's going on?
Suffering the side effects of being Psalm 14:1..
I will now write down my own pview of life and death as I experienced it and being 80 +
Starts 3:27. Seems to be a re-up. And BTW, the literacy podcadst announced at the end will also be a re-up. I am not sure why they do that.
Fear of death aside, I am more afraif of bad life (which I am actually doing, so I know what to fear).
I really enjoyed this episode. Instead of focusing in on one aspect of the Bible/Christian origins, it was more sweeping in its perspective of the fear of "non-being".
P.S. Should the 'b' of 'being' be capitalised...RE: Heidegger?
Sartre would be more apropos: “Etre et neant” (“Being and Nothingness”-v. “Being and Time”)
Concerning the universality of the fear of death, might I recommend Ernest Becker’s “The Denial of Death”?
@NichaelCramer - Does that book teach us HOW to deny death? ^_^
Any ideas as to why this keeps getting reuploaded?
I have a fear of the video starting at 3:28
megan....where did you get ur cup??
*sigh* welp, here we go again
It's kind of shocking to me to hear that the pagans largely didn't believe in an afterlife, when so many of the myths of Greek and Roman mythology are rife with references to it, all the way back to the Odyssey. I mean, there is a literal god of the underworld, Hades, and a three-headed dog and the river Styx, and all those terrible tortures described for figures like Tantalus and Sisyphus. And these are mentioned in multiple sources, from Homer to Plutarch to Virgil and Ovid.
Homer also mentions the fields of Elysium, and Hesiod and Pindar, among others, mention Isles of the Blessed, meaning that their religion also seems to have recognized a sense of "the good place" as opposed to "the bad place" for death. So I'm so confused that Christians would have to sell the idea of an afterlife to pagans before convincing them that they needed Jesus to avoid a bad afterlife, since the Greeks did have that concept.
But maybe these were old myths by the time of Jesus, ones no longer believed by the general public. Certainly Plato in his Gorgias seems to imply that he believes the stories of the "Isles of the Blessed" but that the people he is dialoguing with probably don't believe it.
Or maybe they were only beliefs held by literate elites, and the vast majority of Roman citizens at the time of Jesus would have held more "primitive" beliefs based on their own local areas' mythologies that largely didn't include afterlives?
3:27 discussion begins
3:23 to skip small talk
There's a degree of over reliance on the phrase, "non fui, fui, non sum, non curo." This was common among Epicureans. Not all or even necessarily a majority of people over the course of pre-Christian Roman history were Epicureans. And of course, Epicureanism ebbed and flowed in popularity, as did other philosophies. Some of those philosophies had a concept of an afterlife and others which did not. There's notably no source for the assertion that early Christians "marketed a new product" by proclaiming the prospect of hell if people didn't convert. In other videos, Bart even discusses beliefs in universal salvation as in the Apocalypse of Peter. And in this video, Bart talks about concepts of an afterlife that pre-date Christianity by quite a bit! So the idea of an afterlife is nothing new, or nor is the idea of punishment for living badly. (We see that in the Odyssey and Vergil.)
So why is this episode being uploaded for the third time??? Are we in purgatory???
One question mark is sufficient, thank you very much. If you had bothered to watch any part of these rather than merely reading the titles, you would have noticed immediately that these are three separate and distinct episodes.
Bart is trying to give us a taste of what it’s like to live forever…sort of like Groundhog Day. SSDD.
Wasn't this already uploaded a few days ago?
{:o:O:}
ATTENTION: The video that is uploaded today "Was Jesus Literate?" is set on private, so nobody can watch it. The link in de mail doesn't work.
We do NOT know when it happens so there's no benefit in fearing.
16:39
Dear Megan, I am getting to like your fashion, especially your glasses and hair style more and more as I watch your show. It is really refreshing to see new fashions. Actually it became boring for me to see the conventional styles of other people. Thanks.
I find it totally distracting
How does Megan have time for her family between the application of disguises.😂
It takes me maybe 15 minutes to do my makeup before recording, and the children are all at school :) they don't lack attention.
Hello Doc. I have a question about this " Romans 13:1 " Politicians use it all of the time as an excuse to get out of a jam, or as cover for ruthlessness and being hypocrites. I would like to know who and when from your knowledge of these writings were added or was it always there in the historical text and not a counterfeit, forgery addition to this bible. Thanks. I would ask on your website, but I can't afford it.
Man, here comes the rooster, 😳
I realise that most people.in America still believe in heaven and hell but that is certainly not the case here in Europe.
An whole episode on death and not a single mention of purgatory? Very strange!
Why?
@@colincampbell4261 Why what? This talk on death mentions heaven at least 15 times and hell at least 10 times and purgatory zero times. You don't think that is strange? Do many Christians believe in purgatory after death or not?
@devious7771 I think most Christians believe absence of the body, present with the lord.
@@dirtypickle77 I thought Catholics are a majority - they are supposed to believe in purgatory (as well as hell)
er. everyone seems to assume satan is going to be horrid. if i go to hell then GOD is "punishing me" for my sins, but why would satan want to punish me too? satan hates christians. if i'm being punished by satan, then satan is doing god's work - that makes zero sense, hell is eternity having WAY MORE FUN than you ever could on earth, this is what god hates, god wants you to suck his toes for eternity, satan is SAVING you from singing amazing grace for eternity. hell is where satan thumbs his nose at god and gives everyone a good time, no mind control, no ten commandments to follow, just eternal life that you can probably quit if you get bored with learning guitar from hendrix or trying to grasp relativity from einstein. why would hell be undesirable? why would satan want to torment me - he hates god and christians, not sinners.
Presumably Satan is some kind of sadist.
Not a Christian. But many people, even Bible-believing Christians, seem to envision Satan as a kind of cartoonish prison warden, lording over his impish subordinates as he commands them to keep impaling the souls of the damned with pitchforks.
He isn't. He's a fellow inmate that is being punished as much as any other damned soul. He just happens to be the biggest, toughest guy in prison.
When it comes to death, fear of the unknown (what happens before the afterlife and the nature of another level of existence) is the primary factor for most people
Come again? Isn’t “what happens before the ‘afterlife’ “ just life? How is that “unknown”? In any case, no one is afraid of “the nature of another level of existence”. Everyone, rather, (no matter how much they may profess otherwise) is afraid of NON-existence. When I say everyone, that’s precisely what I mean. People who blather about heaven do it only because they’re afraid of non-existence. It isn’t something that can be reasoned or rationalized away. It’s primal. It’s how we’re biologically programmed by nature-for that simple and obvious reason that a species with individuals who don’t fear death is not a species that can survive.
What happened before you were born? Eternal means no beginning and no end. You end up where you started.
@@SlaveRebellion-yn5wy That's a nonsequitur
@jeffryphillipsburns Everyone, rather (no matter how much they profess otherwise) is afraid of being held accountable for the bad they've done in their life. When l say everyone, that's precisely what l mean. People who blather about the supremacy of death do it only because they're afraid of being judged for their sins. Fear of hell isn't something that can be reasoned for rationalized away. Most accept that reality, others would rather take the reactionary -- ultimately irrational position of being death supremacists. Same rhetorical effect.
God instilled our fear of death precisely so we and future generations can survive on earth
@@paradisecityX0
In Orthodox Judaism the only thing eternal is the Jewish God. Eternal means that you had no beginning or end. You are not eternal no matter what the church tells you.
The thought of not existing is not at all terrifying for me, living forever is. All of these spurious narratives that people come up with are more terrifying than either of those alone!
death is the biggest lie
I’m so happy that I’ve found lovely people to learn from. This will probably save my marriage! Thank you!
Megan… are you trying to drop a hint or something? Bart I’d watch your back if I were you
Surely Megan must be doing some amount of damage to her hair dyeing it as frequently as she does?
It'll grow back.😂
*The Fear of Death is based on NOT knowing the DIFFERENCE, between the human body, and "LIFE The Real Self" an Offspring and Child of "The LIGHT, The LIFE of GOD"... When Jesus used the word " I " or " Me ", He was NOT referring to his flesh, but instead to ether "The LIFE of GOD" or "The SON of MAN", a Component of the SOUL, depending on the contents of the verse...*
In Orthodox Judaism the only thing in existence that is eternal is the Jewish God. Eternal means, no beginning and no end. You are not eternal no matter what the church tells you.
There is no afterlife in Judaism. Instead they believe in resurrection and so they had ossuaries to preserve bones of the dead.
According to Judaism you, a Torah observant Jew would be resurrected with the age of the Messiah as a reward for upholding the Law. Even the resurrected were not eternal.
The church invented eternal life in spite of the contradiction of Judaism.
MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN ALL:
JESUS SAID, “AND I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE AND THEY SHALL NOT DIE, NEITHER CAN ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.” JESUS SAID, “MY FATHER WHICH GAVE THEM TO ME, IS GREATER THAN ALL AND NO MAN IS ABLE TO PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHER'S HAND.” JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE AS ONE IN AGREEMENT IN ALL THINGS (JOHN 10:30). JESUS ONLY SPEAKS AND DOES WHAT THE FATHER COMMANDS OF HIM (JOHN 12:48-50).
*Jesus said I and My Father are One... The word " I " does NOT refer to Jesus but instead "The LIFE of GOD" !*
*From The Gospel [ ACCORDING TO ] John in chapter 1, verse 4, Quote;*
*4. In Him ( GOD ) was LIFE; and the LIFE was the LIGHT of Men. End Quote*
*NOTE: It is NOT written; In Him ( GOD ) was Jesus; and Jesus was the LIGHT of Men. Period !*
Stop shrieking, please.
@@jeffryphillipsburns *Do you always insult your senior citizens ??? I am an oldy near 80 years old, and I use this type of print, so I don't strain my old eyes, unlike yourself which has yet to grow up !*
@@johnb8854 READ HIS WORDS AND STOP SIMPLY REPLACING THE WORD "WORD" WITH "JESUS" AND CALLING IT A DAY TO EXPLAIN HIS WORD. THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS TO UNDERSTANDING HIS WORD; IT IS REVEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, NOT YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING. YOUR PLACING OF WORDS DISTORTS HIS MEANING.
JOHN 1:14 CLEARLY SAYS JESUS IS THE "GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER," WHICH MEANS JESUS HAS COME AS THE WORD OF GOD TO PROCLAIM HIS FATHER’S GLORY. EVERYTHING JESUS SAID WAS FROM THE FATHER, NOT HIMSELF (JOHN 12:49-50). JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM GOD. JESUS WAS THE ONE MANIFESTED TO SPEAK THE WORDS OF HIS FATHER. GOD THE FATHER HAS NEVER MANIFESTED HIMSELF ON THE EARTH; HIS SON DID…AND HE AND HIS SON ARE NOT THE SAME ENTITY, BUT THEY AGREE
Fear can exist only in the presence of ignorance.
That's a bit of an oversimplification. If a man see's a lion starting to charge at him, it's not ignorance causing the fear, it's the knowledge that other's have died from lion attacks that causes the fear.
@@markadams7046
That's not death. That's pain. Death is the state beyond pain.
You’d might as well maintain that hunger can only exist “in the presence of ignorance”. If we didn’t feel hunger and fear, the human race would have died out long ago.
@jeffryphillipsburns
Fear of death is being ignorant of the fact that you are not your body.
I disagree, while pain is fearful, I've lived through pain before. Believe me, it's death that would be my biggest fear. If you didn't fear death than you would most likely be dead by now. It's the guy who doesn't fear death that every soldier hates to have on their own side, because that is the man most likely to get them all killed.@@daodejing81
Jesus said the kingdom of God, not the kingdom of heaven. The Cathars were not confused by the conflation of born again.
لا يوجد دين حقيقي الا الاسلام
القران الكريم لم يتغير
هو نفسه منذ ١٤٠٠ سنة مضت
هو الحقيقة في هذا العالم
Yea only truth I've seen from that religion is rape and murder
Stop preaching nonsense.