Thanks everyone for the comments! For this video, I've defined "British Invasion" as bands that reached the USA in 1964 to 1966, so bands like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin etc were post-(First) Invasion. Seems fair enough? If you want to listen to some of the Kinks/Who songs DURING that 1964-66 timeframe, I made this Spotify playlist that is sequenced chronologically open.spotify.com/playlist/2HP9vjOIR1SuGaoSbDxA3E?si=f0851fcd55b44a48
Later Psychedelic bands like Pink Floyd were unfortunately classed British Invasion, when they came out too late for that, and were part of the Psychedelic boom that exploded later in the sixties, and out-fashioned most of the British Invasion.
@@RobertsRecordCorner okay that makes sense. However u went through there whole carrier so found that a little confusing. But probably me not listening 😁. And that being the case ,yeh the kinks makes sense. Consider the kinks beat the Who to the punch by best part of a year. And the Who didn't have hits in the USA unti. l 67 . So I think the Hollies are contenders there in that mid 60s period. Maybe not for song writing. But hits ,vocals, musicianship they are there abouts.
@@matthewashman1406 Hollies were awesome; I think they had the best vocals of the Brit Invasion. They also did really well in the UK. I wonder myself why The Moody Blues are not mentioned? They did not have many hits in the UK but many in the US and sold a boatload of albums in both countries.
Hot take: Paul McCartney's best lyrics are equal to Ray's average lyrics I think the Beatles are the #1 British Invasion band just by virtue of being the trailblazers, and the Rolling Stones are #2 just because they were seen as the rivals to the Beatles, but imo the Kinks are the best overall
God Save the Kinks!!!! The Who are great, by God, no doubt about that. "Live at Leeds" is my favorite live album of all time. But you hit the nail on the head. The Who were singing about a pinball playing messiah. The Kinks were singing about a working class girl who buys a hat like Princess Marina. She'll never wear it Ascot, but she wears it while she's cleaning the stairs. And she is so proud of it. That is real life my friend, and making art of it, which is the greatest thing art can do. Both bands are great, but the Kinks....they are truly great.
Steve Marriott was a really good pal of this guy named Keith Richards. Keith asked Marriott to join The Stones, but apparently Mick Jagger threw a full-out fit, and told Keith Richards if that'd would happen, he would straight up quit The Rolling Stones! The otherworldly voice and electric stage presence of Marriot, as Jagger expressed, would make it impossible for Marriott to take the backseat to even Micky-boy! I mean, Mick Jagger was right, but I always just like to think, "What if...!..."
Interesting in light of my recent discovery that the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Kinks & Who were the British Invasion bands who made it into the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame on the 1st Ballot. Led Zeppelin was the other 60s UK band to accomplish that feat. Fine bands like the Animals & Dave Clark Five performed great songs but were not generally known for great albums or songwriting and did not last; although the Animals had a psychedelic rebirth as Eric Burdon and the Animals! I'm a massive Kinks fans who thinks the Kinks songwriting craft speaks much more to everyday people than the Who; or even the Beatles. Would any famous rock star write a song like 'Only A Dream' about being a nerd afraid to approach a woman?
As much as I love the Kinks, and they were a huge inspiration for Pete, the raw power of the Who's live gigs were legendary and their influence is still prevalent and relevant
I gotta give the edge to The Kinks. That run of albums from Face to Face through Muswell Hillbillies is unmatched. The Who stepped it up with Tommy and their live performances, but Ray Davies songwriting muscle is second only to Lennon/McCartney in my opinion.
Agree completely. Muswell Hillbillies is severely underrated. Everybody’s in Show-Biz disappoints but it has the majestic Celluloid Heroes. Preservation Act 1 harks back to VGPS, but Act 2 went off the rails. Soap Opera hits bottom and Schoolboys in Disgrace is a rebound, but the peak years were past. Still, there were flashes of brilliance ahead.
I'm a fan of both. I have all the albums of both bands (except the very latest one by the Who). And I think you nailed it. Over the decades, the Kinks have given us far more timeless songs-and there's more emotion and introspection in those songs: Oddly enough, I've never really liked "Waterloo Sunset" all that much, but there's so much more: "Days", "Shangri-La", "Animal Farm", "This Time Tomorrow", and on and on. Pete Townshend is a great, great songwriter, but even he didn't come up with "I miss the morning dew/Fresh air, and Sunday School".
@@PFNel Well said. I have also struggled to love Waterloo as much as everyone else. "Autumn Almanac" slays me. "Shangri-La" is probably my fav. Thank you for watching!
@@RobertsRecordCorner I was in the car with a friend, and "Autumn Almanac" came on (my iPod was set to play random songs). She hated it and said it should never even have been issued! Subjectivity - what are you gonna do? For me, the Kinks are third, and perhaps not even third ... but that depends very much on your definition of greatness. Which, of course, is a whole other discussion.
@@RobertsRecordCornerOh wow. Really disagree there. Waterloo Sunset is one of the greatest songs ever written in my view. Best single song of the 60’s, even allowing for all the Beatles magnificent songs.
@@PFNel Funny, my girlfriend at the time threatened to break up with me if I didn't stop playing THE KINK KRONICLES album. I showed her the door. Never saw her since.
The Kinks … I’ve seen them in London, England & Toronto … I saw Ray Davies do his solo theatrical show and several small shows with Ray fronting a new band playing Kinks music
Just don’t forget that The Who had one of the worlds best drummer and bassist. And Pete did a pretty good job combining song writing, guitar work and stage performance. Adding revord sales and longivity, I vote for The Who.
My six top five favorite bands (made in the 80's) are The Who, The Kinks, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and The Doors. Not necessarily in that order but The Who are also my favorite band. I do not have any problem putting The Kinks first. God save The Kinks and the preservation society. I did buy that album.
this is much harder question than "ginger or mary ann"? i couldn't do without either. i'm tempted to give the nod to the who for continuing the band and for having the two main players show each other respect and love...i can't leave either band out but the correct stranded on a desert island with answer is mary ann...i heard a VC member saying that "who's next" was something he never needed to hear again. i could still listen to it every other day...but the kinks might mean more overall. next question please!
I appreciate both bands for various reasons. The Who to me anyway has a slight edge because they were featured at USA's Super bowl half time show and that's my marker if you really made it big in the world. I do like The Kinks 'Dandy' , 'Death of a Clown', 'Hatred' songs but overall I tend to play more music from The Who. Superb video.
kinks...I am a fan since 64...your facts are wrong ....KINKS had the first concept album in 1968...Village Green Preservation Society! 700 songs in the kinks catalog with 20 new ones coming!
I see VG as more thematic than conceptual. There is no set story here. But, hey, if it gets another point for the Kinks, I'll take it! Thanks for watching.
There were concept albums before either of those; I don't think it's so important who got what out the door. And yes, _Arthur_ very much tells a story, it was commissioned to do just that, after all.
Depending on the day of the week these are my two favorite bands. As far as song writing I just want to point out something that people overlook. Look how many bands have hits doing Kinks kovers vs. even The Beatles. The Kinks are a band's band and the reason that they should always be in the argument for the pinnacle of rock's pantheon.
The Who may be my favorite band ever. Largely because I was turning 13 when Who’s Next was released and it perfectly captured my male pre-teen/teen angst and energy. Yet I agree that defined as “British Invasion” band definitely The Kinks. And The Kinks are one of the most underrated bands ever
I"m 71, and was 12 in 1965 when we all had transistor radios to listen to the top 40. No cell phones, no walkmans, just RADIO, and you didn't get to choose your songs like today's XM. No doubt the Beatles and Rolling Stones dominated early, with the Dave Clark Five right in there, too. The DC5 had a few really catchy hits, but they really didn't progress much. The Kinks blew us all away with "You Really Got Me" and "All Day and All of the NIght:", and they were definitely the third most popular group once those songs hit the U.S. in '65 and '66. The Who came later, and they did eventually pass the Kinks in popularity in the U.S., partly due to the Kinks ban, but also due to their wild live performances. I think Robert sells the Who a bit short on their music and songwriting, but I will agree that overall, the Kinks songs are more intimate and their lyrics more meaningful. With Tommy and Quadrophenia and Who's Next, the Who reached higher heights, but I can't put either group ahead of the other. They were both extremely influential, and AWESOME in different ways! The Kinks were a bit more offbeat and hip, while the Who were brash showmen. Kind of apples and oranges.
Its a fair assessment. I cant argue w/you Bud. So glad you included that clip of Pete's quote. I couldnt remember where or when i heard, saw, or read that until now. Thanks
I played Tommy hundreds of times as a teen in the 80s. I still listen to it all the way through maybe once or twice a year. I have so much more music now than I did then, but Tommy will always have a place in the rotation. Great album beginning to end despite them flubbing the timing in the very first chord. Kit Lambert as "producer" was more concerned with keeping costs down than making a perfect record.
The KINKS of course ! But can I be objective as I am a Kinks fan since 1966 and I knew them personally ? I used to run the Kinks French Konnektion in the years 1977-84 ! Thanks for this story, very fair analysis of the British invasion. Great video montage. Keep up the good job !
I love them both so much. They are different kind of bands. The who are louder and more bombastic, rock n roll. The kinks have beautiful lyrics about real life. Theres a lot more to both of them too, of course. But i couldn't possibly choose, you simply need both of them and we are so lucky we have!
Nicely worked out and makes perfect sense. Sure I liked a few Who songs when they were Top 40 radio singles - My Generation, I Can See For Miles, Call Me Lightning and Magic Bus - but those were anger-driven songs I liked on the radio. I related far more to the Kinks records at home on my record player. In Canada you really had to hunt for their Pye Lp and single releases. Allied Records out of Montreal would release their discs but never in large enough quantities. Phonodisc out of Toronto nabbed Pye in 1968 and were not much better. So there was a real and proper reward in discovering their obscure B-sides and lesser known Lp tracks in the late Sixties and very early 1970s. In mid 1968, you could pick up 3 great deleted Kinks Pye singles for about 39 cents (Dead End Street, Waterloo Sunset, Mister Pleasant). Those 6 singles tracks amounted to half an LP. Face To Face remains my favourite Kinks LP bar none. They enjoyed a dedicated underground following in Canada, wearing their unpopularity relative to The Stones and The Beatles almost as a badge of honour. Had the good fortune to meet both Peter Quaife and Ray Davies in Toronto around the time that Peter played a reunion gig with The Kinks at Maple Leaf Gardens (1981). The Kinks of course soldiered on without Peter and became more of a stadium band after Arthur, Lola and Percy when the Pye years ended.
The best live rock band I ever heard was The Who at the Village Theatre (later the Fillmore East) in NYC. This includes The Beatles who I saw on August 23, 1966, at Shea Stadium (terrible P.A., screams and all), The Stones a few times at Madison Square Garden, and the Byrds (not generally considered to be a great live band) who I saw at a local beach club in 1967 I’ve also seen Cream, Zep, Deep Purple, The Rascals, Badfinger, Procul Harem, Mountain, Queen, CSN&Y, The Moody Blues, Janis, Jimi, James Brown, and many more. All were great and I enjoyed their shows, but the energy and sound that The Who delivered eclipsed them all
Very nice. If you would have gone with the Who I wouldn't have thought less of you, but I made up my mind many years ago that I rate the Kinks higher. For basically the reasons you articulated.
The Who is the greatest band of all time. They may not have sold as many albums as some of their contemporaries, but if you saw them in their prime or even today, you will know. They have made movies. They have been on Broadway. The have put out albums as early as 1965 and as late as 2020 and they all are great. If John Lennon had lived, maybe there would be competition for The Who.
Born 1955, I love both as I do with Beatles & Stones. It started with the Fab 4, followed by The Stones. Loved the Kinks until The Who released „Live at Leeds“ Couldn’t stop listening to it until „Who‘s Next“. Many prefer The Kinks - anyone is allowed to have his personal preferences. Abbey Road & The White Album, above mentioned Who LP‘s and Dark Side of The Moon are my all time favourites. Cheers and stay tuned
The Who Gets a lot of attention because of their rhythm section of Entwistle and Moon, both of which who are on most people's top ten bass player/drummer lists. You don't really see that with the Kinks, but if you ever hear Peter Quaife's Bass on Wicked Anabella on the "The Kinks are the Village Green Preservation Society", he should be on everyone's favorite bass player list.
This is one of the best videos I've seen about this topic. I will forward this to many people very close to The Kinks. Dave Davies and Mick Avory will get the link within the afternoon. Thanks Robert! I'm a subscriber to your channel now.
The Who. The Kinks have killer records as do The Who--Maybe The Kinks cornered them as far as the quality of the records during the 60's, but The Who surpassed them by the 70's, and they were already a killer live act that almost couldn't be beaten save for a few performers.
Ray Davies has the definite edge in the songwriting department, no question. He will be immortalized for his songs. But each member of The Who is top of the class in regards to their instruments. Moon & Entwistle in particular are master Jedi level. And at their peak, no one could touch The Who for live performance. Look what they did to The Stones on the 1968 Rock N Roll Circus, devastating.
I love The Rolling Stones. But for me as a kid growing up in the 70’s and 80’s with older brothers with huge record collections, my favorites were in this order: The Beatles The Who The Kinks The Rolling Stones But I also really dug The Monkees
This is tough. I always thought the Kinks had an edge for songwriting, The Who for live shows, and a tie overall. I can't deny Entwhistle and Moon, so I give The Who a slight overall edge. The Kinks had a better catalog until Tommy, though.
The biggest charting single in the US between the Who and Kinks was actually Herman's Hermits cover of The Kink's 'Dandy' which hit #5 and was their 9th straight Top 10 hit. Well, unless you count the Doors 'Hello I Love You' which went #1 and was ruled by a UK court to be a copy of All Day and All of the Night. The Kink's have their own 5 Top 10 hits and can lay some claim to 2 'covers'. The Who has their single Top 10, 'I Can See For Miles' which charted at #9. Makes you wonder what the Kinks might have done if they had not been banned at the height of their creativity; heck, Sunny Afternoon was the #1 song in the UK in the summer of 1966 and I think would have charted higher than #14 in the US if the band could have actually made appearances in the US. Instead the Who finally caught on in America. If the Who had been banned similarly, they would have been a minor figure in the US like The Small Faces. As you can guess, I am a resounding The Kinks in this debate LOL!
The Kinks! Though Village Green is not thought of as a concept album, there is a unified vibe about it, much like Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper, or Kate Bush’s The Dreaming, for example, where it seems like more than *just* a collection of great songs. I saw them in1974 at the Felt Forum which was adjacent to Madison Square Garden, and was a relatively more intimate venue. My friend and l managed to get right up to the front of the stage ( from which, after the show, l was able to snatch one Ray’s empty Coors cans). They previewed the wonderful Mirror of Love, with Ray using a framed mirror to reflect a purple spotlight back at the audience. Such a great show. My friend and l used our ticket stubs to get into the second show, and back down again to the front! I saw them again about 6 months late, performing Preservation Act Two, which I loved … and it was, sadly, awful. Awful because Ray had all these other folks singing the parts of the various characters! But those prior shows (along with Jethro Tull in ‘73 at MSG) are the magical standouts of my concert-going history. God save The Kink Kronikles!
The Tremeloes had many top hits like The Kinks.... I was born in 1953, I love both Kinks and Who but my #3 and #4 are Moody Blues and Led Zeppelin, The Who is #5 and then Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, The Sweet...
@@televinv8062 The two bands had their different strengths and weaknesses and it depends on what you value more, I'd say. Live the Who were untouchable but I like the Kinks' songs more.
I totally agree................It is definitely The Kinks. The Who didn't come along until at least a year later and were more contempories of The Small Faces. The Who didn't even first tour the USA until 1967. I also whole heatedly agree with you regarding Arthur. Although I love Tommy, I can kind of relate more to Arthur. What's interesting about Arthur is that it was originally commisioned to be made into a 'play for today' type movie for ITV who sadly pulled the plug on the project.
The Kinks never could really catch a break around them, reg Arthur TV special. The album is pretty obscure these days, particularly in the US. It's my favorite Kinks album. Thanks for watching!
Great video, I have only just come across your channel. I agree that The Who and The Kinks were among the greatest British Invasion bands of the mid sixties. But easily up there with them were The Yardbirds, but who just didn't last as long. The Who were classed as one of the mid sixties British Invasion bands outside the States where they immediately exploded. But in the States, it was different, as they never exploded there until mid to late 1967, after Psychedelia exploded. But I can tell you are from the States, as you showed a U.S. copy of the first album by The Who which had a much different cover to the UK release, and one track altered, their way out version of Bo Diddley's I'm A Man replaced by a Pete Townshend original, mistakenly titled Instant Party, and the order of the side two tracks slightly altered. You said it was issued in 1966, when it was released in the UK in December 1965, but issued in the States a few months later. You stated it was their only album until 1967, when their second album was issued in the UK in December 1966,, A Quick One, ridiculous title for an album. But that album was not released in the States until around mid 1967. By then, their really dreadful version of Martha And The Vandellas' Heatwave from the UK release, was sensibly replaced by the A side of their recent hit single Happy Jack for the U.S. release, and the whole album was very sensibly re-titled Happy Jack when released in the States. Just those two minor alterations completely polished the U.S. release.
As far as the Kinks 70's concept records, Schoolboys in Disgrace is the best, some great rocking tunes and Ray's whimsical look back on Schooldays. Also the gem of The Great Lost Kinks Album of outtakes released in 1973 are beautiful songs like Lavender Hill, Till Death Do Us Part, Rosemary Rose, Misty Water, etc. songs most bands would die for. For me its 1. Kinks 2. The Who 3. Stones 4. Beatles, 5. Zombies, 6. Animals
Huge fan of the Lost Album. Must admit my favorite '70s concept album is a hybrid of Pres Act 1&2. Too much there, but my fav of the period is scattered on both. Thanks for your list!
I rate The Who above The Stones -- far more creative across a huge range of styles. The Kinks were amazing for creativity, but never had the same level of impact in the USA. The Stones are amazing at what they do, but sort of a one-trick pony ... what a great trick though, none better! :-) So I'd put The Stone in #4, so Kinks at #3.
The Kinks had WAY more impact in the US than the WHO originally; 8 Top 40s in 1964-1966 to zero for the Who. It was the ban from America that torched the Kink's momentum. Kinks are the great 'what if'; just this side of the Hendrix's etc who passed away young.
Great analysis! This raises the great conundrum. Both were superb. Both were very British in lyrics and outlook/ sound whereas the Beatles and the Stones were universal. I'd go for the Who, although Mod bias influences me!
Beatles obviously too but I feel the kinks, Who and the Stones are equal because I love them all and can’t choose a favorite…all three contributed to the pop culture society we all live in today this changing the world. So to pick one would be unthinkable for me.
I had The Kinks in mind from the beginning and I totally agree. I am a big fan of both and at 78 am still doing cover versions at open mics and community suppers. The Kinks. I think someone dealt them a dirty pool maneuver when they were banned. They Bersted back through with Lola. I listen to and play songs from The Kinks and The Who way more than Led Zep and the rest. Beatles, Early Stones and The Kinks. Yeah! Yeah! Let's Do It Again!
The Pretty Things, another band that didn’t do America, were definitely in the top tier of English bands. Plus, their S.F. Sorrow was the first concept album and it is better than Tommy or Arthur IMHO. Also, don’t forget about the Move.
Growing up The Who hit my sweet spot. Attitude. Energy. Everything. Loved them. Still do. In fact I listened to Who's Next start to finish the other day for the first time in years. Sounded so good -- better than anything out today. Still fresh, vibrant and original, even after the umpteenth thousandth listening. I knew The Kinks and liked a few of their songs. You'd hear them on the radio butcher that great Van Halen song (HA!). But over the past few years I've gotten to know their music. What a fool I've been to be without the Kinks for so long. Their records speak to me the way the Beatles and the Stones do. Still. I'm going for a total BS list: 1. The Beatles. Without the Beatles there is no Brisitish invasion. 2. It's a tie. Rolling Stones, the Kinks and the Who. The reason I give them a tie is because they've all had such lengthy careers. The Beatles rule the 60's with the Stones close 2nd. But throughout the 70's and into the 80's, at any given time either of these bands could be considered the greatest. Depended on what year or album.
It's always fun when you find a whole back catalog to explore. I'm an obsessive. So when I figure I need to get into someone -- Beach Boys for example -- I'm suddenly getting everything and piecing together their whole career narrative. Thanks for watching.
The Who Sell Out-1967,Tommy 1969, Who’s Next- 1971, Quadrophenia -1973. Any British band have a artistically productive 6 years like The Who had1967-73. All the time they were constantly touring. Do you want to compare the musicianship of The Who to The Beatles and Stobes. John Entwhistle VS Paul McCartney and Bill Wyman. Keith Moon VS Ringo and Charlie Watts. Peter Dennis Townshend VS John,George and Keith Richards.Did The LSO London Symphony Orchestra ever record a version of an album by The Beatles and The Stones like they recorded Tommy. Did The Beatles or The Rolling Stones play thei Rock Opera at The Metropolitan Opera House??!!
I like both bands, but hard pressed I would choose The Who. They were a bit more mad and outrageous - and artsy. Right at the beginning, when both bands mainly were singles bands, The Kinks might have the upper hand
Listening to your evaluation of Tommy is like hearing you argue the glass is half empty. Tommy and Author are both extraordinary on many levels and each have there own merits. The merits of Tommy were noticeably absent from or under-appreciated in your evaluation. Its worth pointing out that over my lifetime there has been far more said about Tommy than of Author. I say this as someone who was blessed to witness the evolution of these bands from their beginnings and who has a tremendous love for both. I credit them along with The Beatles and The Stones as forming the four pillars of British Rock.
I can agree with the Kinks as being more significant in 1964-1966, but after that the Who were much more prevalent on AM radio until the early '70's, since the Kinks were so unfairly blacklisted for years here in the U.S.. I would have said Herman's Hermits if you asked me in 1966, but hey, I was just a little kid, what did I know! "Mrs. Brown, You've Got A Lovely Daughter" was one of my favorite songs back then. By 1973 we had FM radio, which changed things by allowing us to hear new music in high fidelity and allowing the D.J.s more freedom in song selection. Then, besides the radio, I was often listening to Tommy repeatedly on an endlessly looping 8-track tape cartridge, and also literally wearing the grooves out of my copy of Muswell Hillbillies on thinly pressed vinyl that RCA called the "Flexi-disk".
IMHO The Kinks best album was 'Something Else' from 1967, Included besides Waterloo Sunset was Dave's Death of a Clown, I'm Not Like Everybody Else, David Watts, Two Sisters and Dave's Love Me Till the Sun Shines. The Kinks hit their stride on this album.
I agree I like the Kinks better as well. I didn’t know much more than Lola until I discovered village green which became an all time favorite of mine. Interesting story behind King Arthur! I’m going to relisten with that in mind.
The Kinks all the way! At their absolute best, they were certainly equal to, if not better than, the Beatles or the Stones. The Who had a lot of musical firepower, but I never found them particularly relatable beyond their first three albums. They lost me when they put out "Tommy" -- and the later Who just sounded turgid and bombastic to my ears. However, the Kinks' "Arthur" (released at the same time as "Tommy") was sheer brilliance -- a pinnacle of great British songwriting and muscianship.
"You really got me" was the best song of 1964 and has one of the best and most powerful riffs of all time but that was more of a fluke than anything since the Kinks never managed to progress in that direction. In 1966 they created their own style and made 4 excellent albums in a row from Face to Face to Arthur. The Who invented a new way to play guitar/bass/drums and sing rock music. The were the first punkers lyric wise. Townshend proved himself as a great songwriter of pop music and rock operas with Sell out, Tommy and Quadrophenia meanwhile creating one of the best classic rock albums with Sell out. Besides the Who were maybe the best live band of all time with the best live album of all time (Live at Leeds) So i give it to Who but not by so much since those 4 Kinks albums are so good
@@gunnarkarlgunnarsson2775 I fully agree about 1964. I have thought about talking about best album/song of the 1960s or something at point. The only thing for sure I know is 1964. Thanks for watching!
Brilliant analysis, and as much as I love the Who and appreciate their greatness (and still listen to them regularly), I think you're right. Pete longed to speak for his whole generation, and for rock (and succeeded to an amazing degree). but Ray speaks for foolish little me.
Interesting debate, I never really ranked rock bands, I liked most of the bands that were played on WMMR and WYSP in Philadelphia, where I grew up. I liked having a bunch of different radio stations playing rock music. You could always hear different bands and a bunch of different types of music. I miss that that era because you could hear a bunch of other music as well. My best man at my wedding was a huge Kinks fan and I agree that their lyrics and music were more sophisticated and varied compared to the Who. The Who had more songs played on the radio. Please do a video on U2 and keep up the great videos on this channel!
I agree with you and your video. I believe that the kinks by being banned for almost 5 years from playing in the US cultivated the most British sound. It's ironic that by banning them from America, they were able to create such a unique catalog.
After my premature comment yesterday, I watched your vid and gave it some thought, and I would agree that during the “Invasion” the Kinks deserve to be #3. But in the long run I think The Who outrank them. For extra credit: Kinks ~ my top 10: 1. Celluloid Heroes 2. Lola 3. Shangri-La 4. Sunny Afternoon 5. Waterloo Sunset 6. Victoria 7. Tired Of Waiting For You 8. Where Have All The Good Times Gone 9. See My Friends 10. Set Me Free Who ~ my top 10: 1. I Can See For Miles 2. The Acid Queen 3. Behind Blue Eyes 4. Baba O’Riley 5. Going Mobile 6. Won’t Get Fooled Again 7. I’m Free 8. The Seeker 9. Long Live Rock 10. Join Together
Terrific video. Well argued and interesting. I've been a fan of all four from the start. I have every LP and 45 all four bands ever released. The Kinks hold a special place in my heart. Ray Davies is one of the finest songwriters of the rock era, but then so is Pete Townshend. Lennon had McCartney and Jagger had Richards. But Ray and Pete were on their own. Amazing body of work from all of them. As for which band ranks #3 and #4, I just can't decide. On any given day it can be the Kinks. But the next day it is the Who. The Kinks were far more prolific than the Who and that run of late 60s/early 70s Kinks albums is amazing. But so are Sell Out (one of my favorite LPs of all time) through Quadrophenia (better than Tommy). But the Kinks' RCA concept albums--especially Preservation Act II and Soap Opera--are a slog to get through. But then they had a fine run until the end. Bottom line, we are fortunate to have both of them. And I've become a subscriber.
Agreed. Both, wonderful groups but the edge for me goes to TheKinks due to that magical period from ‘66-‘71 (Arthur, VillageGreen, SomethingElse, FacetoFace, MuswellHillbillies, Powerman). However, my favorite Who record to play is SellOut or Tommy or Quad or Next…like I said, both are wonderful!! Gimme some early Floyd over either band tho!!!
Like them both. The Kinks are very underrated. I've never actually heard the album Aurthur. Maybe compare it more with Quadrophenia. A lot was changing in the UK people got toilets of their own not shared with others on the landing. The new council houses had a, cludgie with a sitting toilet and bath, bedrooms, hot water. I like the way Davies in a politically non partisan way highlights for him the good and bad in the break down of the old uk and empire. For me it's akin to asking who's better The Beatles or Bob Dylan?
@@billywitwhistle202eh. The Kinks were the first of them to do the narrative type of songs and albums !!! So, they laid the foundation !!!! Their English centred songs have to have inspired Pete . ..They are so important for British music . I say that has a big fan of The Who . No Kinks, No The Who
Both great bands. While a good argument can be put forth for the Kinks, I find that Ray’s voice quickly wears out its welcome with me. I can only take him in small doses. The Who win it for me.
12:15 I caught the hat tip to Lou Reed ('Walk On The Wild Side') as I'm sure anyone around my age also did, but, for the youngin's that might find themselves interested in 60 year old rock music, I figured someone should point out that riff is not from a Davies Bros composition. I'll leave it to you to explore from here. Also, The Kinks were contemporaries of The Beatles/The Rolling Stones and it was brother Dave Davies slicing his amps speaker, unique, then never heard before being played throughout a song by the lead instrument, giving that distorted guitar sound on 'You Really Got Me' which Richards took it for the lead riff of 'Satisfaction' (a Fuzz tone box to make a cooler version of the sound). 'So whats the point grandpa ?'. Just pointing out that Dave Davies had created a sound never heard before by human ears (as far as we know) just a few short months after The Beatles landed in NYC and almost a year before 'Satisfaction' was released. The point being, again, they didn't come along after the Beatles or Stones or Animals for that matter, they were right there with them. The Dave Clark 5 were another huge hit making machine back then also. I still have their 45 rpms (along with Beatles/Stones/Kinks). To Robert: Its late (2am) and I'm dying to get to bed while typing the above. I hope I came across ok, I only want to contribute to your already great video, not step on your toes. It was a LONG LONG time ago, different perspectives, memories, 'bits and pieces' of info. etc. Oh yeah, personally, from what I heard, the Kinks lost out due to some problem that I can't remember right now. No doubt you do. They missed out on the initial rush to JFK Airport because of it. Maybe it was a delay in playing on Sullivan ? I do remember seeing them on TV at some point though but the impression I was left with ids that they came along a little later (at that time. even a month was 'later'). Anyhow, thanks again for your great, informative video and your interesting perspective, learned some things I did not know about The Who.
To address the question of whether The Kinks or The Who was the better band, as opposed to which had the better catalogue of records, it's worth mentioning that Shel Talmy stated that he used session drummers with every band he produced, except The Who. All the Kinks early hits feature the brilliant Bobby Graham on drums instead of The Kinks' Mick Avory. Bobby came from a jazz background, which is why those early Kinks 45s have such a great groove. Keith Moon, on the other hand, is intrinsic to the sound of The Who.
Very interesting video. I have always been on the side of The Kinks. I like The Who, but they were never a "go-to" band for me. I tend to like idiosyncrasies and The Kinks were full of them. In fact, I prefer them to The Beatles. I am not saying they are better than The Beatles, but I would rather put on The Village Green Preservation Society over Sgt. Peppers.
Thanks everyone for the comments! For this video, I've defined "British Invasion" as bands that reached the USA in 1964 to 1966, so bands like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin etc were post-(First) Invasion. Seems fair enough? If you want to listen to some of the Kinks/Who songs DURING that 1964-66 timeframe, I made this Spotify playlist that is sequenced chronologically open.spotify.com/playlist/2HP9vjOIR1SuGaoSbDxA3E?si=f0851fcd55b44a48
Later Psychedelic bands like Pink Floyd were unfortunately classed British Invasion, when they came out too late for that, and were part of the Psychedelic boom that exploded later in the sixties, and out-fashioned most of the British Invasion.
@@RobertsRecordCorner okay that makes sense. However u went through there whole carrier so found that a little confusing. But probably me not listening 😁. And that being the case ,yeh the kinks makes sense. Consider the kinks beat the Who to the punch by best part of a year. And the Who didn't have hits in the USA unti. l 67 . So I think the Hollies are contenders there in that mid 60s period. Maybe not for song writing. But hits ,vocals, musicianship they are there abouts.
@@matthewashman1406 Hollies were awesome; I think they had the best vocals of the Brit Invasion. They also did really well in the UK. I wonder myself why The Moody Blues are not mentioned? They did not have many hits in the UK but many in the US and sold a boatload of albums in both countries.
@@theglavine sure yeh moodies were Great 👍. But I guess they didn't sell big till later on
You are right to do so, and thanks for mentioning the Animals and THEM, a personal favorite of mine
Lyrically, Ray Davies is incredible. I prefer The Kinks over the Stones, the Beatles, and The Who. Ray has penned a huge catalog of amazing music.
And Peter Townshend hasn’t been prolific the last 60 years?
I sometimes prefer The Who, The Kinks and The Yardbirds over The Beatles and The Stones, although both of those bands made great material.
Hot take: Paul McCartney's best lyrics are equal to Ray's average lyrics
I think the Beatles are the #1 British Invasion band just by virtue of being the trailblazers, and the Rolling Stones are #2 just because they were seen as the rivals to the Beatles, but imo the Kinks are the best overall
Dave Dee& Co and the Kinks!! 😃😃😃
Jagger had high praise for 'Lola'
If Ray Davies had done nothing else other than Waterloo Sunset he would go down as a legendary songwriter. And of course he did do so much more.😊
God Save the Kinks!!!! The Who are great, by God, no doubt about that. "Live at Leeds" is my favorite live album of all time. But you hit the nail on the head. The Who were singing about a pinball playing messiah. The Kinks were singing about a working class girl who buys a hat like Princess Marina. She'll never wear it Ascot, but she wears it while she's cleaning the stairs. And she is so proud of it. That is real life my friend, and making art of it, which is the greatest thing art can do. Both bands are great, but the Kinks....they are truly great.
REALLY was disappointed to learn The Who over-dubbed Background vocals on Live at Leeds which were un-believable!!!
The Kinks hands down. Ray Davies is on another level. Dig your channel.
@@tomrobinson5776 Thank you!
The Who are the Who. But the Kinks? Man, they’re the KINKS.
Love The Who, Love The Kinks but don’t forget The Small Faces, The kings of Cockney Rock!
Agree. The Small Faces were terrific but unfortunately down to dodgy management were not part of the USA invasion.
But the question was, “Who’s the best British band besides the Beatles and the Stones?” It didn’t mention the British Invasion of America.
@@georgecapote6374 He mentioned the British invasion in the opening sentence.
Yep!
Steve Marriott was a really good pal of this guy named Keith Richards. Keith asked Marriott to join The Stones, but apparently Mick Jagger threw a full-out fit, and told Keith Richards if that'd would happen, he would straight up quit The Rolling Stones! The otherworldly voice and electric stage presence of Marriot, as Jagger expressed, would make it impossible for Marriott to take the backseat to even Micky-boy! I mean, Mick Jagger was right, but I always just like to think, "What if...!..."
I think I prefer the Kinks but it's hard to choose. I also love The Zombies.
I love The Kinks! Especially I also love Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac as well!
You make a great case for The Kinks. well done !
Love The Kinks, but The Who (particularly from 1970 on ) were up on another level both live and on record via classics like Who’s Next & Quadrophenia.
@@stevejohnston8254 The '70s made the Who. The '60s made the Kinks. Maybe?
Interesting in light of my recent discovery that the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Kinks & Who were the British Invasion bands who made it into the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame on the 1st Ballot. Led Zeppelin was the other 60s UK band to accomplish that feat. Fine bands like the Animals & Dave Clark Five performed great songs but were not generally known for great albums or songwriting and did not last; although the Animals had a psychedelic rebirth as Eric Burdon and the Animals! I'm a massive Kinks fans who thinks the Kinks songwriting craft speaks much more to everyday people than the Who; or even the Beatles. Would any famous rock star write a song like 'Only A Dream' about being a nerd afraid to approach a woman?
The Kinks, denied from touring the U.S. for four long years, but you can't keep a good band down!
FYI The Who were banned in Australia from 1968 - 2000!!!!
As much as I love the Kinks, and they were a huge inspiration for Pete, the raw power of the Who's live gigs were legendary and their influence is still prevalent and relevant
The Kinks in the studio and the Who live.
@@soldmeout Hard to argue
💯
@@soldmeout Spoken like a man who has never owned a copy of a Quadrophenia
@@markallen2984 Not that I'm siding with anyone here, but Quadrophenia is in a league all on its own.
I gotta give the edge to The Kinks. That run of albums from Face to Face through Muswell Hillbillies is unmatched. The Who stepped it up with Tommy and their live performances, but Ray Davies songwriting muscle is second only to Lennon/McCartney in my opinion.
@@rsdemarco Agree about the run. Not sure any albums after Muswell quite reconnects with Ray's best. Though I enjoy it all. Thanks for watching
Third. Dylan is first
Ray is first in my opinion !
Ray Davies is a far superior Songwriter.
Agree completely. Muswell Hillbillies is severely underrated. Everybody’s in Show-Biz disappoints but it has the majestic Celluloid Heroes. Preservation Act 1 harks back to VGPS, but Act 2 went off the rails. Soap Opera hits bottom and Schoolboys in Disgrace is a rebound, but the peak years were past. Still, there were flashes of brilliance ahead.
I'm a fan of both. I have all the albums of both bands (except the very latest one by the Who). And I think you nailed it. Over the decades, the Kinks have given us far more timeless songs-and there's more emotion and introspection in those songs: Oddly enough, I've never really liked "Waterloo Sunset" all that much, but there's so much more: "Days", "Shangri-La", "Animal Farm", "This Time Tomorrow", and on and on. Pete Townshend is a great, great songwriter, but even he didn't come up with "I miss the morning dew/Fresh air, and Sunday School".
@@PFNel Well said. I have also struggled to love Waterloo as much as everyone else. "Autumn Almanac" slays me. "Shangri-La" is probably my fav. Thank you for watching!
@@RobertsRecordCorner I was in the car with a friend, and "Autumn Almanac" came on (my iPod was set to play random songs). She hated it and said it should never even have been issued! Subjectivity - what are you gonna do? For me, the Kinks are third, and perhaps not even third ... but that depends very much on your definition of greatness. Which, of course, is a whole other discussion.
@@RobertsRecordCornerOh wow. Really disagree there. Waterloo Sunset is one of the greatest songs ever written in my view. Best single song of the 60’s, even allowing for all the Beatles magnificent songs.
I used to like Waterloo Sunset. But it has been played too often. So I stick to the rest of their catalog.
@@PFNel Funny, my girlfriend at the time threatened to break up with me if I didn't stop playing THE KINK KRONICLES album. I showed her the door. Never saw her since.
SEPTEMBER 2024
Both of them for me, just love their music.
🇬🇧Ⓜ️🇬🇧🎼🎶🎵🎵🎵🎶🎤🎸🥁🎸🎹🎬📽️🎞️🎥🎧🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
Imao, The kinks is criminally underrated. their musical creativity and storytelling is untouchable. nobody can compare to them
Brilliant band . Maybe if Ray and Dave played the game a little …. They’d have got the respect that they deserved
My two favorite bands!! Tied for first!! Gotta have everything by these bands!!! Killer music 🎵
The Kinks …
I’ve seen them in London, England & Toronto … I saw Ray Davies do his solo theatrical show and several small shows with Ray fronting a new band playing Kinks music
I am so jealous! I have seen The Kinks twice. I had a ticket for the Think Visual tour which sadly was cancelled in Houston, Texas.
More Kinks videos? More Kinks videos!
@@trott Yes! Thanks for watching senor.
Just don’t forget that The Who had one of the worlds best drummer and bassist. And Pete did a pretty good job combining song writing, guitar work and stage performance. Adding revord sales and longivity, I vote for The Who.
Ok about the musical technique and live performances but Ray Davies songwriting is unrivaled.
My six top five favorite bands (made in the 80's) are The Who, The Kinks, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and The Doors. Not necessarily in that order but The Who are also my favorite band. I do not have any problem putting The Kinks first. God save The Kinks and the preservation society. I did buy that album.
Ox was indeed a great player. Moon the Loon was a fantastic percussionist who wasn’t the best timekeeper.
this is much harder question than "ginger or mary ann"? i couldn't do without either. i'm tempted to give the nod to the who for continuing the band and for having the two main players show each other respect and love...i can't leave either band out but the correct stranded on a desert island with answer is mary ann...i heard a VC member saying that "who's next" was something he never needed to hear again. i could still listen to it every other day...but the kinks might mean more overall. next question please!
BOTH BRILLIANT.
@@23theseeker50 Undeniable!
I appreciate both bands for various reasons. The Who to me anyway has a slight edge because they were featured at USA's Super bowl half time show and that's my marker if you really made it big in the world. I do like The Kinks 'Dandy' , 'Death of a Clown', 'Hatred' songs but overall I tend to play more music from The Who. Superb video.
kinks...I am a fan since 64...your facts are wrong ....KINKS had the first concept album in 1968...Village Green Preservation Society! 700 songs in the kinks catalog with 20 new ones coming!
I see VG as more thematic than conceptual. There is no set story here. But, hey, if it gets another point for the Kinks, I'll take it! Thanks for watching.
Don't be rude, it's a very good video montage and a beautiful tribute to our favorites !
There were concept albums before either of those; I don't think it's so important who got what out the door. And yes, _Arthur_ very much tells a story, it was commissioned to do just that, after all.
Depending on the day of the week these are my two favorite bands. As far as song writing I just want to point out something that people overlook. Look how many bands have hits doing Kinks kovers vs. even The Beatles. The Kinks are a band's band and the reason that they should always be in the argument for the pinnacle of rock's pantheon.
The Who may be my favorite band ever. Largely because I was turning 13 when Who’s Next was released and it perfectly captured my male pre-teen/teen angst and energy. Yet I agree that defined as “British Invasion” band definitely The Kinks. And The Kinks are one of the most underrated bands ever
I"m 71, and was 12 in 1965 when we all had transistor radios to listen to the top 40. No cell phones, no walkmans, just RADIO, and you didn't get to choose your songs like today's XM. No doubt the Beatles and Rolling Stones dominated early, with the Dave Clark Five right in there, too. The DC5 had a few really catchy hits, but they really didn't progress much. The Kinks blew us all away with "You Really Got Me" and "All Day and All of the NIght:", and they were definitely the third most popular group once those songs hit the U.S. in '65 and '66. The Who came later, and they did eventually pass the Kinks in popularity in the U.S., partly due to the Kinks ban, but also due to their wild live performances. I think Robert sells the Who a bit short on their music and songwriting, but I will agree that overall, the Kinks songs are more intimate and their lyrics more meaningful. With Tommy and Quadrophenia and Who's Next, the Who reached higher heights, but I can't put either group ahead of the other. They were both extremely influential, and AWESOME in different ways! The Kinks were a bit more offbeat and hip, while the Who were brash showmen. Kind of apples and oranges.
Its a fair assessment. I cant argue w/you Bud. So glad you included that clip of Pete's quote. I couldnt remember where or when i heard, saw, or read that until now. Thanks
I played Tommy hundreds of times as a teen in the 80s. I still listen to it all the way through maybe once or twice a year. I have so much more music now than I did then, but Tommy will always have a place in the rotation. Great album beginning to end despite them flubbing the timing in the very first chord. Kit Lambert as "producer" was more concerned with keeping costs down than making a perfect record.
The KINKS of course ! But can I be objective as I am a Kinks fan since 1966 and I knew them personally ?
I used to run the Kinks French Konnektion in the years 1977-84 !
Thanks for this story, very fair analysis of the British invasion. Great video montage. Keep up the good job !
@@procol14 Thank you'd
I love them both so much. They are different kind of bands. The who are louder and more bombastic, rock n roll. The kinks have beautiful lyrics about real life. Theres a lot more to both of them too, of course. But i couldn't possibly choose, you simply need both of them and we are so lucky we have!
Nicely worked out and makes perfect sense. Sure I liked a few Who songs when they were Top 40 radio singles - My Generation, I Can See For Miles, Call Me Lightning and Magic Bus - but those were anger-driven songs I liked on the radio. I related far more to the Kinks records at home on my record player. In Canada you really had to hunt for their Pye Lp and single releases. Allied Records out of Montreal would release their discs but never in large enough quantities. Phonodisc out of Toronto nabbed Pye in 1968 and were not much better. So there was a real and proper reward in discovering their obscure B-sides and lesser known Lp tracks in the late Sixties and very early 1970s. In mid 1968, you could pick up 3 great deleted Kinks Pye singles for about 39 cents (Dead End Street, Waterloo Sunset, Mister Pleasant). Those 6 singles tracks amounted to half an LP. Face To Face remains my favourite Kinks LP bar none. They enjoyed a dedicated underground following in Canada, wearing their unpopularity relative to The Stones and The Beatles almost as a badge of honour. Had the good fortune to meet both Peter Quaife and Ray Davies in Toronto around the time that Peter played a reunion gig with The Kinks at Maple Leaf Gardens (1981). The Kinks of course soldiered on without Peter and became more of a stadium band after Arthur, Lola and Percy when the Pye years ended.
The best live rock band I ever heard was The Who at the Village Theatre (later the Fillmore East) in NYC. This includes The Beatles who I saw on August 23, 1966, at Shea Stadium (terrible P.A., screams and all), The Stones a few times at Madison Square Garden, and the Byrds (not generally considered to be a great live band) who I saw at a local beach club in 1967
I’ve also seen Cream, Zep, Deep Purple, The Rascals, Badfinger, Procul Harem, Mountain, Queen, CSN&Y, The Moody Blues, Janis, Jimi, James Brown, and many more. All were great and I enjoyed their shows, but the energy and sound that The Who delivered eclipsed them all
I try to answer the order emotionally for myself. I've seen both bands live and "The Who" simply left a bigger impression on me.
I am still listening t Muswell Hillbillies. Might be a subjective choice,but I love that album.
Its one of their most under-rated efforts.
Very nice. If you would have gone with the Who I wouldn't have thought less of you, but I made up my mind many years ago that I rate the Kinks higher. For basically the reasons you articulated.
The Who is the greatest band of all time. They may not have sold as many albums as some of their contemporaries, but if you saw them in their prime or even today, you will know. They have made movies. They have been on Broadway. The have put out albums as early as 1965 and as late as 2020 and they all are great. If John Lennon had lived, maybe there would be competition for The Who.
Born 1955, I love both as I do with Beatles & Stones. It started with the Fab 4, followed by The Stones. Loved the Kinks until The Who released „Live at Leeds“ Couldn’t stop listening to it until „Who‘s Next“. Many prefer The Kinks - anyone is allowed to have his personal preferences.
Abbey Road & The White Album, above mentioned Who LP‘s and Dark Side of The Moon are my all time favourites.
Cheers and stay tuned
No one better then The Kinks!!! Pure art, from Face to Face to Muswell Hillbillies! Amazing music and lyrics!!
The Who Gets a lot of attention because of their rhythm section of Entwistle and Moon, both of which who are on most people's top ten bass player/drummer lists. You don't really see that with the Kinks, but if you ever hear Peter Quaife's Bass on Wicked Anabella on the "The Kinks are the Village Green Preservation Society", he should be on everyone's favorite bass player list.
This is one of the best videos I've seen about this topic. I will forward this to many people very close to The Kinks. Dave Davies and Mick Avory will get the link within the afternoon. Thanks Robert! I'm a subscriber to your channel now.
@@bjrneilertmork7504 Wow, thank you!!
@@RobertsRecordCorner Already got a thumb up from Dave Davies’ partner, and people from the inner circle of fans (family and friends of the band).
The Who. The Kinks have killer records as do The Who--Maybe The Kinks cornered them as far as the quality of the records during the 60's, but The Who surpassed them by the 70's, and they were already a killer live act that almost couldn't be beaten save for a few performers.
Ray Davies has the definite edge in the songwriting department, no question. He will be immortalized for his songs. But each member of The Who is top of the class in regards to their instruments. Moon & Entwistle in particular are master Jedi level. And at their peak, no one could touch The Who for live performance. Look what they did to The Stones on the 1968 Rock N Roll Circus, devastating.
Kinks are unmatched
@@HEWHOTAWNS True. Surpassed, but unmatched. 😁
What a fantastic video have a great day also happy first week of fall ❤😊🎸🇺🇸🍂🏴🇬🇧
The WHO !!! I love them as much easily as Beatles Stones Zeppelin Cream Pink Floyd.
The Who every day of the week! Love the Kinks as well, but The Who are legends!
I love The Rolling Stones. But for me as a kid growing up in the 70’s and 80’s with older brothers with huge record collections, my favorites were in this order:
The Beatles
The Who
The Kinks
The Rolling Stones
But I also really dug The Monkees
This is tough. I always thought the Kinks had an edge for songwriting, The Who for live shows, and a tie overall. I can't deny Entwhistle and Moon, so I give The Who a slight overall edge. The Kinks had a better catalog until Tommy, though.
Kinks or The Who? Impossible to decide.
The biggest charting single in the US between the Who and Kinks was actually Herman's Hermits cover of The Kink's 'Dandy' which hit #5 and was their 9th straight Top 10 hit. Well, unless you count the Doors 'Hello I Love You' which went #1 and was ruled by a UK court to be a copy of All Day and All of the Night. The Kink's have their own 5 Top 10 hits and can lay some claim to 2 'covers'. The Who has their single Top 10, 'I Can See For Miles' which charted at #9. Makes you wonder what the Kinks might have done if they had not been banned at the height of their creativity; heck, Sunny Afternoon was the #1 song in the UK in the summer of 1966 and I think would have charted higher than #14 in the US if the band could have actually made appearances in the US. Instead the Who finally caught on in America. If the Who had been banned similarly, they would have been a minor figure in the US like The Small Faces. As you can guess, I am a resounding The Kinks in this debate LOL!
The Kinks! Though Village Green is not thought of as a concept album, there is a unified vibe about it, much like Pet Sounds, Sgt. Pepper, or Kate Bush’s The Dreaming, for example, where it seems like more than *just* a collection of great songs.
I saw them in1974 at the Felt Forum which was adjacent to Madison Square Garden, and was a relatively more intimate venue. My friend and l managed to get right up to the front of the stage ( from which, after the show, l was able to snatch one Ray’s empty Coors cans).
They previewed the wonderful Mirror of Love, with Ray using a framed mirror to reflect a purple spotlight back at the audience. Such a great show. My friend and l used our ticket stubs to get into the second show, and back down again to the front!
I saw them again about 6 months late, performing Preservation Act Two, which I loved … and it was, sadly, awful. Awful because Ray had all these other folks singing the parts of the various characters! But those prior shows (along with Jethro Tull in ‘73 at MSG) are the magical standouts of my concert-going history.
God save The Kink Kronikles!
The Tremeloes had many top hits like The Kinks.... I was born in 1953, I love both Kinks and Who but my #3 and #4 are Moody Blues and Led Zeppelin, The Who is #5 and then Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, The Sweet...
God Save the Kinks! Well presented.
I think even Pete Townshend would concede that The Kinks should go before them.
You're probably right....but I'd disagree with him. The Who was on a different level for me.
@@televinv8062 The two bands had their different strengths and weaknesses and it depends on what you value more, I'd say. Live the Who were untouchable but I like the Kinks' songs more.
@Scotttyist yes and it really comes down to personal preferences.
I totally agree................It is definitely The Kinks. The Who didn't come along until at least a year later and were more contempories of The Small Faces. The Who didn't even first tour the USA until 1967. I also whole heatedly agree with you regarding Arthur. Although I love Tommy, I can kind of relate more to Arthur. What's interesting about Arthur is that it was originally commisioned to be made into a 'play for today' type movie for ITV who sadly pulled the plug on the project.
The Kinks never could really catch a break around them, reg Arthur TV special. The album is pretty obscure these days, particularly in the US. It's my favorite Kinks album. Thanks for watching!
The Kinks, the Moody Blues, The who, pink floyd,
Great video, I have only just come across your channel. I agree that The Who and The Kinks were among the greatest British Invasion bands of the mid sixties. But easily up there with them were The Yardbirds, but who just didn't last as long. The Who were classed as one of the mid sixties British Invasion bands outside the States where they immediately exploded. But in the States, it was different, as they never exploded there until mid to late 1967, after Psychedelia exploded.
But I can tell you are from the States, as you showed a U.S. copy of the first album by The Who which had a much different cover to the UK release, and one track altered, their way out version of Bo Diddley's I'm A Man replaced by a Pete Townshend original, mistakenly titled Instant Party, and the order of the side two tracks slightly altered. You said it was issued in 1966, when it was released in the UK in December 1965, but issued in the States a few months later. You stated it was their only album until 1967, when their second album was issued in the UK in December 1966,, A Quick One, ridiculous title for an album. But that album was not released in the States until around mid 1967. By then, their really dreadful version of Martha And The Vandellas' Heatwave from the UK release, was sensibly replaced by the A side of their recent hit single Happy Jack for the U.S. release, and the whole album was very sensibly re-titled Happy Jack when released in the States. Just those two minor alterations completely polished the U.S. release.
As far as the Kinks 70's concept records, Schoolboys in Disgrace is the best, some great rocking tunes and Ray's whimsical look back on Schooldays. Also the gem of The Great Lost Kinks Album of outtakes released in 1973 are beautiful songs like Lavender Hill, Till Death Do Us Part, Rosemary Rose, Misty Water, etc. songs most bands would die for. For me its 1. Kinks 2. The Who 3. Stones 4. Beatles, 5. Zombies, 6. Animals
Huge fan of the Lost Album. Must admit my favorite '70s concept album is a hybrid of Pres Act 1&2. Too much there, but my fav of the period is scattered on both. Thanks for your list!
you changed my mind about the Kinks. time to relisten to their discography
I rate The Who above The Stones -- far more creative across a huge range of styles. The Kinks were amazing for creativity, but never had the same level of impact in the USA. The Stones are amazing at what they do, but sort of a one-trick pony ... what a great trick though, none better! :-) So I'd put The Stone in #4, so Kinks at #3.
The Kinks had WAY more impact in the US than the WHO originally; 8 Top 40s in 1964-1966 to zero for the Who. It was the ban from America that torched the Kink's momentum. Kinks are the great 'what if'; just this side of the Hendrix's etc who passed away young.
Yeah, THE WHO!!!
Great analysis! This raises the great conundrum. Both were superb. Both were very British in lyrics and outlook/ sound whereas the Beatles and the Stones were universal. I'd go for the Who, although Mod bias influences me!
Beatles obviously too but I feel the kinks, Who and the Stones are equal because I love them all and can’t choose a favorite…all three contributed to the pop culture society we all live in today this changing the world. So to pick one would be unthinkable for me.
I had The Kinks in mind from the beginning and I totally agree. I am a big fan of both and at 78 am still doing cover versions at open mics and community suppers. The Kinks. I think someone dealt them a dirty pool maneuver when they were banned. They Bersted back through with Lola. I listen to and play songs from The Kinks and The Who way more than Led Zep and the rest. Beatles, Early Stones and The Kinks. Yeah! Yeah! Let's Do It Again!
@@frankperry1111 What cover versions do you do!? Thanks for watching
I can see for miles what you did at the end of your comment...viva la Kinks! The music video for "Do it Again" is one of the best, EVER!
The Pretty Things, another band that didn’t do America, were definitely in the top tier of English bands. Plus, their S.F. Sorrow was the first concept album and it is better than Tommy or Arthur IMHO. Also, don’t forget about the Move.
Nice mentions. My favorite underrated UK band is the Creation. 40 songs that sound like freakbeat Who!
@@theglavine Love The Creation.
Growing up The Who hit my sweet spot. Attitude. Energy. Everything. Loved them. Still do. In fact I listened to Who's Next start to finish the other day for the first time in years. Sounded so good -- better than anything out today. Still fresh, vibrant and original, even after the umpteenth thousandth listening.
I knew The Kinks and liked a few of their songs. You'd hear them on the radio butcher that great Van Halen song (HA!). But over the past few years I've gotten to know their music. What a fool I've been to be without the Kinks for so long. Their records speak to me the way the Beatles and the Stones do. Still.
I'm going for a total BS list:
1. The Beatles. Without the Beatles there is no Brisitish invasion.
2. It's a tie. Rolling Stones, the Kinks and the Who.
The reason I give them a tie is because they've all had such lengthy careers. The Beatles rule the 60's with the Stones close 2nd. But throughout the 70's and into the 80's, at any given time either of these bands could be considered the greatest. Depended on what year or album.
It's always fun when you find a whole back catalog to explore. I'm an obsessive. So when I figure I need to get into someone -- Beach Boys for example -- I'm suddenly getting everything and piecing together their whole career narrative. Thanks for watching.
I love both The Kinks and The Who. For different reasons. It’s too hard to choose.
The Who every day of the week in every year and every decade.
The Who Sell Out-1967,Tommy 1969, Who’s Next- 1971, Quadrophenia -1973. Any British band have a artistically productive 6 years like The Who had1967-73. All the time they were constantly touring. Do you want to compare the musicianship of The Who to The Beatles and Stobes. John Entwhistle VS Paul McCartney and Bill Wyman. Keith Moon VS Ringo and Charlie Watts. Peter Dennis Townshend VS John,George and Keith Richards.Did The LSO London Symphony Orchestra ever record a version of an album by The Beatles and The Stones like they recorded Tommy. Did The Beatles or The Rolling Stones play thei Rock Opera at The Metropolitan Opera House??!!
THE WHO… I put them over all British bands. Their use of rock, blues, jazz and rock opera. Totally original. The best!
I like both bands, but hard pressed I would choose The Who. They were a bit more mad and outrageous - and artsy.
Right at the beginning, when both bands mainly were singles bands, The Kinks might have the upper hand
Both bands are incredible and each have their own style.
The Who!
To all of those who enjoy this excellent analysis, you should also understand that your host it the legendary Robbo!!!!!
@@markstiggs4471 Legendary? Not so sure but thank you!!!
Listening to your evaluation of Tommy is like hearing you argue the glass is half empty. Tommy and Author are both extraordinary on many levels and each have there own merits. The merits of Tommy were noticeably absent from or under-appreciated in your evaluation. Its worth pointing out that over my lifetime there has been far more said about Tommy than of Author. I say this as someone who was blessed to witness the evolution of these bands from their beginnings and who has a tremendous love for both. I credit them along with The Beatles and The Stones as forming the four pillars of British Rock.
I can agree with the Kinks as being more significant in 1964-1966, but after that the Who were much more prevalent on AM radio until the early '70's, since the Kinks were so unfairly blacklisted for years here in the U.S.. I would have said Herman's Hermits if you asked me in 1966, but hey, I was just a little kid, what did I know! "Mrs. Brown, You've Got A Lovely Daughter" was one of my favorite songs back then.
By 1973 we had FM radio, which changed things by allowing us to hear new music in high fidelity and allowing the D.J.s more freedom in song selection. Then, besides the radio, I was often listening to Tommy repeatedly on an endlessly looping 8-track tape cartridge, and also literally wearing the grooves out of my copy of Muswell Hillbillies on thinly pressed vinyl that RCA called the "Flexi-disk".
IMHO The Kinks best album was 'Something Else' from 1967, Included besides Waterloo Sunset was Dave's Death of a Clown, I'm Not Like Everybody Else, David Watts, Two Sisters and Dave's Love Me Till the Sun Shines. The Kinks hit their stride on this album.
I agree I like the Kinks better as well. I didn’t know much more than Lola until I discovered village green which became an all time favorite of mine. Interesting story behind King Arthur! I’m going to relisten with that in mind.
The Kinks all the way! At their absolute best, they were certainly equal to, if not better than, the Beatles or the Stones. The Who had a lot of musical firepower, but I never found them particularly relatable beyond their first three albums. They lost me when they put out "Tommy" -- and the later Who just sounded turgid and bombastic to my ears. However, the Kinks' "Arthur" (released at the same time as "Tommy") was sheer brilliance -- a pinnacle of great British songwriting and muscianship.
"You really got me" was the best song of 1964 and has one of the best and most powerful riffs of all time but that was more of a fluke than anything since the Kinks never managed to progress in that direction.
In 1966 they created their own style and made 4 excellent albums in a row from Face to Face to Arthur.
The Who invented a new way to play guitar/bass/drums and sing rock music. The were the first punkers lyric wise.
Townshend proved himself as a great songwriter of pop music and rock operas with Sell out, Tommy and Quadrophenia meanwhile creating one of the best classic rock albums with Sell out.
Besides the Who were maybe the best live band of all time with the best live album of all time (Live at Leeds)
So i give it to Who but not by so much since those 4 Kinks albums are so good
@@gunnarkarlgunnarsson2775 I fully agree about 1964. I have thought about talking about best album/song of the 1960s or something at point. The only thing for sure I know is 1964. Thanks for watching!
Brilliant analysis, and as much as I love the Who and appreciate their greatness (and still listen to them regularly), I think you're right. Pete longed to speak for his whole generation, and for rock (and succeeded to an amazing degree). but Ray speaks for foolish little me.
I love the Who and the Kinks. I'd give the nod to the Kinks there but think it was Pink Floyd
Did PF even tour the US during the Barrett years?
@@timburns5967 yes
Interesting debate, I never really ranked rock bands, I liked most of the bands that were played on WMMR and WYSP in Philadelphia, where I grew up. I liked having a bunch of different radio stations playing rock music. You could always hear different bands and a bunch of different types of music. I miss that that era because you could hear a bunch of other music as well. My best man at my wedding was a huge Kinks fan and I agree that their lyrics and music were more sophisticated and varied compared to the Who. The Who had more songs played on the radio. Please do a video on U2 and keep up the great videos on this channel!
I agree with you and your video.
I believe that the kinks by being banned for almost 5 years from playing in the US cultivated the most British sound. It's ironic that by banning them from America, they were able to create such a unique catalog.
After my premature comment yesterday, I watched your vid and gave it some thought, and I would agree that during the “Invasion” the Kinks deserve to be #3.
But in the long run I think The Who outrank them.
For extra credit:
Kinks ~ my top 10:
1. Celluloid Heroes
2. Lola
3. Shangri-La
4. Sunny Afternoon
5. Waterloo Sunset
6. Victoria
7. Tired Of Waiting For You
8. Where Have All The Good Times Gone
9. See My Friends
10. Set Me Free
Who ~ my top 10:
1. I Can See For Miles
2. The Acid Queen
3. Behind Blue Eyes
4. Baba O’Riley
5. Going Mobile
6. Won’t Get Fooled Again
7. I’m Free
8. The Seeker
9. Long Live Rock
10. Join Together
Wow! Thank you for the extra credit. I think Shangri-La is my fav Kinks song, maybe Eminence Front for the Who
Terrific video. Well argued and interesting. I've been a fan of all four from the start. I have every LP and 45 all four bands ever released. The Kinks hold a special place in my heart. Ray Davies is one of the finest songwriters of the rock era, but then so is Pete Townshend. Lennon had McCartney and Jagger had Richards. But Ray and Pete were on their own. Amazing body of work from all of them. As for which band ranks #3 and #4, I just can't decide. On any given day it can be the Kinks. But the next day it is the Who. The Kinks were far more prolific than the Who and that run of late 60s/early 70s Kinks albums is amazing. But so are Sell Out (one of my favorite LPs of all time) through Quadrophenia (better than Tommy). But the Kinks' RCA concept albums--especially Preservation Act II and Soap Opera--are a slog to get through. But then they had a fine run until the end.
Bottom line, we are fortunate to have both of them.
And I've become a subscriber.
Agreed. Both, wonderful groups but the edge for me goes to TheKinks due to that magical period from ‘66-‘71 (Arthur, VillageGreen, SomethingElse, FacetoFace, MuswellHillbillies, Powerman). However, my favorite Who record to play is SellOut or Tommy or Quad or Next…like I said, both are wonderful!! Gimme some early Floyd over either band tho!!!
The Who
Like them both. The Kinks are very underrated. I've never actually heard the album Aurthur. Maybe compare it more with Quadrophenia. A lot was changing in the UK people got toilets of their own not shared with others on the landing. The new council houses had a, cludgie with a sitting toilet and bath, bedrooms, hot water. I like the way Davies in a politically non partisan way highlights for him the good and bad in the break down of the old uk and empire. For me it's akin to asking who's better The Beatles or Bob Dylan?
You should give Arthur a listen. Great l.p.
Arthur is my fav Kinks album (and I do prefer Quadrophenia to Tommy fwiw).Thanks for commenting!
Kinks. Their influence on later British bands like Madness, Blir, Pulp and the entire Britpop movement in the 90:s is undisputable.
Quadrophenia puts an end to any questions
It catapult's them over the stones, kinks and close to beatles but firmly at #2! Live The Who tops all bands
@@billywitwhistle202 👍💯
Quadrophenia is unmatched by anyone.
@@billywitwhistle202eh. The Kinks were the first of them to do the narrative type of songs and albums !!! So, they laid the foundation !!!! Their English centred songs have to have inspired Pete . ..They are so important for British music . I say that has a big fan of The Who .
No Kinks, No The Who
Quadrophenia contains every human emotion.
Both great bands. While a good argument can be put forth for the Kinks, I find that Ray’s voice quickly wears out its welcome with me. I can only take him in small doses. The Who win it for me.
12:15 I caught the hat tip to Lou Reed ('Walk On The Wild Side') as I'm sure anyone around my age also did, but, for the youngin's that might find themselves interested in 60 year old rock music, I figured someone should point out that riff is not from a Davies Bros composition. I'll leave it to you to explore from here. Also, The Kinks were contemporaries of The Beatles/The Rolling Stones and it was brother Dave Davies slicing his amps speaker, unique, then never heard before being played throughout a song by the lead instrument, giving that distorted guitar sound on 'You Really Got Me' which Richards took it for the lead riff of 'Satisfaction' (a Fuzz tone box to make a cooler version of the sound). 'So whats the point grandpa ?'. Just pointing out that Dave Davies had created a sound never heard before by human ears (as far as we know) just a few short months after The Beatles landed in NYC and almost a year before 'Satisfaction' was released. The point being, again, they didn't come along after the Beatles or Stones or Animals for that matter, they were right there with them. The Dave Clark 5 were another huge hit making machine back then also. I still have their 45 rpms (along with Beatles/Stones/Kinks).
To Robert: Its late (2am) and I'm dying to get to bed while typing the above. I hope I came across ok, I only want to contribute to your already great video, not step on your toes. It was a LONG LONG time ago, different perspectives, memories, 'bits and pieces' of info. etc. Oh yeah, personally, from what I heard, the Kinks lost out due to some problem that I can't remember right now. No doubt you do. They missed out on the initial rush to JFK Airport because of it. Maybe it was a delay in playing on Sullivan ? I do remember seeing them on TV at some point though but the impression I was left with ids that they came along a little later (at that time. even a month was 'later'). Anyhow, thanks again for your great, informative video and your interesting perspective, learned some things I did not know about The Who.
Lola was in deed a couple of years before Walk on The Wild Side, but it was a year after Candy Says.
@@ericwinlol True, though VU didn't exactly have "hits." Not that always matters. Big fan of Candy Says
To address the question of whether The Kinks or The Who was the better band, as opposed to which had the better catalogue of records, it's worth mentioning that Shel Talmy stated that he used session drummers with every band he produced, except The Who. All the Kinks early hits feature the brilliant Bobby Graham on drums instead of The Kinks' Mick Avory. Bobby came from a jazz background, which is why those early Kinks 45s have such a great groove. Keith Moon, on the other hand, is intrinsic to the sound of The Who.
@@johnthepickford Love Keith Moon. No one compares.
The kinks are my favorite British Invention band for sure!
Very interesting video. I have always been on the side of The Kinks. I like The Who, but they were never a "go-to" band for me. I tend to like idiosyncrasies and The Kinks were full of them. In fact, I prefer them to The Beatles. I am not saying they are better than The Beatles, but I would rather put on The Village Green Preservation Society over Sgt. Peppers.