David, recoil is felt differently by people depending on a number of factors, including principally shooting procedure, gun fit, cartridges , build of person and attire. Volume of shooting also makes a difference, as recoil cumulates. In the UK, shooting vests, often with a sweater underneath, are common. Here in the states, particularly warm places like Southern California, people tend to shoot over a thin T shirt or polo shirt, and almost no one shoots less than 28 gram loads. So, recoil sensation is more pronounced here. Perry Pappous, Southern California, USA
Id like someone to do a mechanical measurement of recoil, for example placing a shotgun into a device that could measure the backward and upwards recoil. Then different pads, cartridges, guns etc could be compared.
Recoil reducers are great. Please watch the video and you’ll see your shoulder on both shots barely move with the recoil reducer. You also started to take your first shot quicker with the recoil reducer. My buddy had some lower back issues and he had to start using a much lighter gun, with the recoil reducer he was able to make it work.
My daughter shoots trap, with a field gun, no less! 😂 Last year we added a Falcon Strike recoil system. Her scores went from 135, and increased 10+ every competition. This year, she's shooting 197, with that same field gun, with the Falcon Strike. Yes, they do work! But, it's probably the adjustability of the pad that's the real magic. Now, when we get her an actual trap or sporting gun, maybe not so much. Of course, there are other factors that contribute to recoil, and she does try to mitigate them. But, the recoil system is pretty popular over here, and we think to some degree, at least, they're worth it.
If it fits and still kicks to much, then lower the gram weight of your cartridge, likewise its FPS rating... it's simple physics. If you must have the weight and power, (pest or game shooting), then's the time to look at padding and recoil absorbers... my view for what it's worth.
A good gun that fits that has reasonable weight shouldn't kick I personally like shooting semi autos because of the lack of recoil I use to get beat up with most guns including my silver pigeon even with 28gram 7.5s
I have a Titanium right shoulder , as a result I am now recoil sensitive . I shoot a Beretta A400 Xcell 30" sporter ( the bright blue one ) with the kickoff stock . It is quite the softest 12ga target gun I have ever used , funnily enough I notice recoil and the stock movement less when using 28 gm 1250 , or 1300 fps loads than when using 1200 fps loads
Liked the video. Would it make more sense to shoot two of the same lighter shotguns that recoil is felt, instead of a heavier gun that it was much less to begin with? I shoot a Beretta A300 Outlander. Hunt with 3 inch BB Goose loads. I added a Limbsaver butt pad and it made a big difference by reducing felt recoil. The new pad only added 1/8 th of an inch to the gun’s LOP. $32 and two screws in 5 minutes. For additional comfort, I bought a Browning shirt that has a pocket for it”s G3 recoil reducer gel pad. This pad also goes in my clays vest.
Each to their own, but I use a Grayco recoil reducer. If I shoot 150 cartridges a day, with out one after three days I cannot lift up my left arm. With the Grayco I can shoot all day every day , no problem. Works for me.
Thanks for the video. You hit on a very important and good point which is proper gun fit along with good instruction. Many of us have seen new shooters that were being "helped" by well meaning but uninformed friends/family just get pounded into the ground due to firearms that were poorly mounted, with stock dimensions that were WAY outside of what would be close. The firearm would also tend to be a light field gun firing what on my side of the pond would be promotional shot shells which tended to be 11/8 ounce running 1250-1300 fps. I don't want to run those shells through my 8.5lb well fitted semi auto much less a 7lb fixed breech field gun with a hard butt plate. The area where I've seen the type of recoil reducer that you're showing in the video is with ATA shooters. Many of those people still tend to run 11/8 ounce at 1250 when shooting handicap events. They also tend to shoot several hundred rounds during an average shoot. For them it makes sense given the cumulative effects of recoil. The thing with these recoil reducers and in a similar vein gas operated auto loaders do is they spread the recoil impulse out over more time when compared to a fixed breech firearm. I know people that put mercury recoil reducers in the stock or on the barrel of their firearm. This essentially adds weight but doesn't do anything to lengthen the recoil impulse.
I am seventy-six years old, and worked as a toolmaker all my life, and started to work as trap boy at eleven years old. I have seen, and heard a lot of discussion about recoil, during those seven years, and when my wife and I restarted shooting American trap, skeet, and some sporting clays, the same discussions were still going on. Recoil is the application of the physics law, that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. There are ways to actually reduce the recoil force. Reduce the shot charge, use a slower burning powder, reduce the friction between the wad and bore, which can call up some dangerous practices like back boring the barrels. Anything, other than modifying internal factors, is found under the heading of recoil/time management. Pressure against the breech face causes the recoil, which is a fixed quantity for any barrel and load combination. The effects of recoil are cumulative. One shot is not a problem. Five hundred rounds fired over a period of 5-6 hours is another issue. There is a part of the brain that wants to go shooting. There is another part that wants to save your body from pain. “A” yells pull. The target appears, and “B”, will not allow your finger pull the trigger. “FLINCH” Once that starts, your game changes. Flinches come in different types, from different causes. If you have strong healthy shoulders, and do not shoot much, a standard recoil pad will likely suit your needs. A recoil pad, does not reduce the energy forced against the breech face, it causes the recoil energy to be felt by the shoulder at a slower velocity, over a longer period of time. A push, rather than a punch. From here you can choose different pad materials. The next step in recoil management, are the various mechanical (spring hydraulic) devices installed in the butt stock. The device that I personally had great success with, but others that I talked to, did not like, was a “ Soft-Touch” from Shooter’s Emporium In Oregon. Expensive? Is owning a good shotgun, and the other expenses of the shotgun sports, expensive? That is a person choice. First, do as the host stated several times, learn about stock fit. It is better to have a stock bent for the proper cast, length of pull, drop at the comb, and pitch of the butt, rather than experiencing pain and a bruised or bleeding cheek, while you try to adapt to a stock with a pretty piece of wood. Keep your eyes open, and your head on the comb.
How about simply butting a Browning Inflex pad on the standard MK38 instead? That will cost you 25£ and probably give you 80% of the effect of the expensive recoil reducer, at a fraction of the cost?
A properly fitted gun, with as high a comb as you can manage, would be better than a recoil reducer in my view. I have found this to be so on the advice of a trusted and well respected gunsmith. I think the test would have been perhaps more revealing, had you been shooting faster cartridges, for example, 28g Black Gold, or 28g Pro Fibre. You might have seen more of a difference then!
Why "as high a comb as you can manage"? Through trial and error, I have found that I tend to shoot better with as high a comb/ as straight a stock as possible, but I can't get my head around why that is? When I practice drymounting at home, my relatively low comb Beretta 687 fits me fine and I mount it correctly. But when it comes to actual shooting, I just shot a bit better with my straight as a plank Winchester SX2 semi-auto. I just don't know why :)
Agreed , modern guns have decent enough recoil systems compared to older guns and of course you can find lower recoil cartridges ( Amber Eley ) etc . If you are new to shooting it’s definitely worth seeing a shooting school and they will find the right gun for you saving time and money . I went through 4 guns before settling on a Benelli 828U Silver 30inch . I would have saved about £5k if I’d gone to a school where I could try them first .
If browning made a recoil system. For after market use. Am sue David would say it’s best thing since sliced bread. It’s physics off corse they reduce recoil
Well done David, nice to see a comparison review by someone who knows what they're talking about. I think you're right though, you shouldn't need one if your gun fits properly.
Rightly or rongly I thought that a gun only bothers you with recoil if your not correctly mounted or it doesn't fit you which again causes mounting issues 🤔
I put a Mercury Recoil Suppressor into the buttock of my Yildiz 20 gauge. It made a nice difference. Only $60. It moved the balance point back 3/4 inch.
Anybody who pays £2000 for a gun and cuts circa £200 off it needs their head examined imo. I looked at a mk38 that had one of them fitted and it put me off buying it. Dont be a big girls blouse. Companies always want to try and sell you something to solve a perceived issue, but if you want less recoil then change the ammo. I like to know a 12 gauge has gone off, so bit of clout is part of the experience.
It maybe the design of that particular reducer but it didn't have any return on it and just bottomed out on the first shot, would be useless on a pair. Other makes have adjustable springs/ shock absorbers eg ISIS recall system.
I actually don’t feel recoil From clay cartridges to game cartridges very little difference for me I’ve heard plenty ppl complain about but never really experienced it myself
I hate recoil pads of any description, they often look awful, some snag a gun mount, and shooting up to an ounce, do you really need it? I shoot 32 - 34 gram at Pigeons especially if they don’t want to decoy or flightline shooting, certainly roost shooting through my DT10EELL with just a wooden heel plate, and because it fits me correctly and it’s a heavy weight, never encounter problems.
I have a pacemaker implanted near my shooting shoulder. The device is durable but the 3 wires that extend into my heart are somewhat fragile. I can easily tolerate the 410 recoil but no more 12 gauges for me.
Don't shoot trap, just a Hunter. Just got back from bird camp. A family member was commenting on my wingmaster 12 vs his Benelli auto saving him recoil. I'm like, we're using 8 shot. Another family member decided to eliminate all recoil by losing a piece off the gas vent on HIS Benelli. Of course, he was practicing the single shot challenge after that.
Interesting - same person, same load, same gun with two different recoil mitigating "devices" - the person said, "not difference in feeling of recoil - ! " the david was having a numbed shoulder and forgot the physics of recoil. LMAO !
This would be a video showing " perceived recoil " as there isn't an accurate way shown to measure recoil. Perhaps using a device between the gun pad and a stationary object such as a brick wall to measure the actual foot pound force of recoil would be a better comparison. No disrespect fellas. Just my 2 cents worth. Have a good day gents.
There's an equation that calculates foot pounds of recoil. It's based on 3 variables which are firearm weight, projectile weight, and projectile speed. Change any one thing and recoil either goes up or down. There are several articles in publications that outline this. Felt or perceived recoil can be more or less depending greatly on how the gun fits and action type. One of the reasons a semi auto feels softer is due to the moving parts of the action lengthens the recoil impulse time wise. That generally translates to more of the "push" that semi autos are known for.
David, recoil is felt differently by people depending on a number of factors, including principally shooting procedure, gun fit, cartridges
, build of person and attire. Volume of shooting also makes a difference, as recoil cumulates. In the UK, shooting vests, often with a sweater underneath, are common. Here in the states, particularly warm places like Southern California, people tend to shoot over a thin T shirt or polo shirt, and almost no one shoots less than 28 gram loads. So, recoil sensation is more pronounced here. Perry Pappous, Southern California, USA
Id like someone to do a mechanical measurement of recoil, for example placing a shotgun into a device that could measure the backward and upwards recoil. Then different pads, cartridges, guns etc could be compared.
Recoil reducers are great. Please watch the video and you’ll see your shoulder on both shots barely move with the recoil reducer. You also started to take your first shot quicker with the recoil reducer. My buddy had some lower back issues and he had to start using a much lighter gun, with the recoil reducer he was able to make it work.
The tension on that is set to soft, you can see it in the close up, definitely won't get much of a recoil reduction with it set that way.
Looks like that recoil reducer is in need of a recharge. Is it a gas or spring system. Looks more like a dead blow than an absorber
My daughter shoots trap, with a field gun, no less! 😂 Last year we added a Falcon Strike recoil system. Her scores went from 135, and increased 10+ every competition. This year, she's shooting 197, with that same field gun, with the Falcon Strike. Yes, they do work! But, it's probably the adjustability of the pad that's the real magic. Now, when we get her an actual trap or sporting gun, maybe not so much. Of course, there are other factors that contribute to recoil, and she does try to mitigate them. But, the recoil system is pretty popular over here, and we think to some degree, at least, they're worth it.
If it fits and still kicks to much, then lower the gram weight of your cartridge, likewise its FPS rating... it's simple physics.
If you must have the weight and power, (pest or game shooting), then's the time to look at padding and recoil absorbers... my view for what it's worth.
A good gun that fits that has reasonable weight shouldn't kick I personally like shooting semi autos because of the lack of recoil I use to get beat up with most guns including my silver pigeon even with 28gram 7.5s
I have a Titanium right shoulder , as a result I am now recoil sensitive . I shoot a Beretta A400 Xcell 30" sporter ( the bright blue one ) with the kickoff stock . It is quite the softest 12ga target gun I have ever used , funnily enough I notice recoil and the stock movement less when using 28 gm 1250 , or 1300 fps loads than when using 1200 fps loads
Liked the video. Would it make more sense to shoot two of the same lighter shotguns that recoil is felt, instead of a heavier gun that it was much less to begin with? I shoot a Beretta A300 Outlander. Hunt with 3 inch BB Goose loads. I added a Limbsaver butt pad and it made a big difference by reducing felt recoil. The new pad only added 1/8 th of an inch to the gun’s LOP. $32 and two screws in 5 minutes. For additional comfort, I bought a Browning shirt that has a pocket for it”s G3 recoil reducer gel pad. This pad also goes in my clays vest.
Each to their own, but I use a Grayco recoil reducer. If I shoot 150 cartridges a day, with out one after three days I cannot lift up my left arm. With the Grayco I can shoot all day every day , no problem. Works for me.
Thanks for the video. You hit on a very important and good point which is proper gun fit along with good instruction. Many of us have seen new shooters that were being "helped" by well meaning but uninformed friends/family just get pounded into the ground due to firearms that were poorly mounted, with stock dimensions that were WAY outside of what would be close. The firearm would also tend to be a light field gun firing what on my side of the pond would be promotional shot shells which tended to be 11/8 ounce running 1250-1300 fps. I don't want to run those shells through my 8.5lb well fitted semi auto much less a 7lb fixed breech field gun with a hard butt plate.
The area where I've seen the type of recoil reducer that you're showing in the video is with ATA shooters. Many of those people still tend to run 11/8 ounce at 1250 when shooting handicap events. They also tend to shoot several hundred rounds during an average shoot. For them it makes sense given the cumulative effects of recoil.
The thing with these recoil reducers and in a similar vein gas operated auto loaders do is they spread the recoil impulse out over more time when compared to a fixed breech firearm. I know people that put mercury recoil reducers in the stock or on the barrel of their firearm. This essentially adds weight but doesn't do anything to lengthen the recoil impulse.
I am seventy-six years old, and worked as a toolmaker all my life, and started to work as trap boy at eleven years old. I have seen, and heard a lot of discussion about recoil, during those seven years, and when my wife and I restarted shooting American trap, skeet, and some sporting clays, the same discussions were still going on.
Recoil is the application of the physics law, that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. There are ways to actually reduce the recoil force. Reduce the shot charge, use a slower burning powder, reduce the friction between the wad and bore, which can call up some dangerous practices like back boring the barrels.
Anything, other than modifying internal factors, is found under the heading of recoil/time management. Pressure against the breech face causes the recoil, which is a fixed quantity for any barrel and load combination. The effects of recoil are cumulative. One shot is not a problem. Five hundred rounds fired over a period of 5-6 hours is another issue.
There is a part of the brain that wants to go shooting. There is another part that wants to save your body from pain. “A” yells pull. The target appears, and “B”, will not allow your finger pull the trigger. “FLINCH” Once that starts, your game changes. Flinches come in different types, from different causes.
If you have strong healthy shoulders, and do not shoot much, a standard recoil pad will likely suit your needs. A recoil pad, does not reduce the energy forced against the breech face, it causes the recoil energy to be felt by the shoulder at a slower velocity, over a longer period of time. A push, rather than a punch. From here you can choose different pad materials. The next step in recoil management, are the various mechanical (spring hydraulic) devices installed in the butt stock. The device that I personally had great success with, but others that I talked to, did not like, was a “ Soft-Touch” from Shooter’s Emporium In Oregon. Expensive? Is owning a good shotgun, and the other expenses of the shotgun sports, expensive? That is a person choice.
First, do as the host stated several times, learn about stock fit. It is better to have a stock bent for the proper cast, length of pull, drop at the comb, and pitch of the butt, rather than experiencing pain and a bruised or bleeding cheek, while you try to adapt to a stock with a pretty piece of wood. Keep your eyes open, and your head on the comb.
How about simply butting a Browning Inflex pad on the standard MK38 instead?
That will cost you 25£ and probably give you 80% of the effect of the expensive recoil reducer, at a fraction of the cost?
A properly fitted gun, with as high a comb as you can manage, would be better than a recoil reducer in my view. I have found this to be so on the advice of a trusted and well respected gunsmith. I think the test would have been perhaps more revealing, had you been shooting faster cartridges, for example, 28g Black Gold, or 28g Pro Fibre. You might have seen more of a difference then!
Why "as high a comb as you can manage"? Through trial and error, I have found that I tend to shoot better with as high a comb/ as straight a stock as possible, but I can't get my head around why that is? When I practice drymounting at home, my relatively low comb Beretta 687 fits me fine and I mount it correctly. But when it comes to actual shooting, I just shot a bit better with my straight as a plank Winchester SX2 semi-auto. I just don't know why :)
Agreed , modern guns have decent enough recoil systems compared to older guns and of course you can find lower recoil cartridges ( Amber Eley ) etc . If you are new to shooting it’s definitely worth seeing a shooting school and they will find the right gun for you saving time and money . I went through 4 guns before settling on a Benelli 828U Silver 30inch . I would have saved about £5k if I’d gone to a school where I could try them first .
Shoot 2 3/4
Yes kickeez pads are good I think, but use the thickest as there is more recoiling material!
Try that on a snow goose hunt. You are shooting very light trap loads. Go out and shoot a case of 3" 1's and i bet you change your mind.
You should try ported barrels against standard barrels next.
If browning made a recoil system. For after market use. Am sue David would say it’s best thing since sliced bread. It’s physics off corse they reduce recoil
tbh we didnt see the difference either camera should be side of looking at the recoil great camera work!!!!
More than just a recoil pad, it can add adjustability if the butt pad for better fit to the shoulder
Great vid guys, very informative
Glad you enjoyed it
Nah. No load you use for clays in a 7 or 8 lb sporting gun kicks much with a correct mount.
Well done David, nice to see a comparison review by someone who knows what they're talking about. I think you're right though, you shouldn't need one if your gun fits properly.
Thank your for your nice comment and we are glad you enjoyed the film.
Rightly or rongly I thought that a gun only bothers you with recoil if your not correctly mounted or it doesn't fit you which again causes mounting issues 🤔
Great topic and vid...I guess there is some merit in fitting one of these, probably would be of some benefit when using hotter field / game loads etc.
I put a Mercury Recoil Suppressor into the buttock of my Yildiz 20 gauge. It made a nice difference. Only $60. It moved the balance point back 3/4 inch.
Anybody who pays £2000 for a gun and cuts circa £200 off it needs their head examined imo. I looked at a mk38 that had one of them fitted and it put me off buying it. Dont be a big girls blouse. Companies always want to try and sell you something to solve a perceived issue, but if you want less recoil then change the ammo. I like to know a 12 gauge has gone off, so bit of clout is part of the experience.
Agreed wouldnt buy a gun with 2 inches missing and that rubbish stuck on the end. Horrible
It maybe the design of that particular reducer but it didn't have any return on it and just bottomed out on the first shot, would be useless on a pair. Other makes have adjustable springs/ shock absorbers eg ISIS recall system.
Needs winding up a bit. Looks like a Graycoil to me, best thing since sliced bread in my opinion.
I actually don’t feel recoil
From clay cartridges to game cartridges very little difference for me
I’ve heard plenty ppl complain about but never really experienced it myself
Great video, am I the only one who thinks that he looks like hell boy when he hasn't got them on his ears! 😁😁😁😁😁
can you pls review the weatherby orion sporter.. an the citori cx.. it would be greatly appreciated.
I hate recoil pads of any description, they often look awful, some snag a gun mount, and shooting up to an ounce, do you really need it? I shoot 32 - 34 gram at Pigeons especially if they don’t want to decoy or flightline shooting, certainly roost shooting through my DT10EELL with just a wooden heel plate, and because it fits me correctly and it’s a heavy weight, never encounter problems.
I have a pacemaker implanted near my shooting shoulder. The device is durable but the 3 wires that extend into my heart are somewhat fragile. I can easily tolerate the 410 recoil but no more 12 gauges for me.
You would have thought a regular thump thump, would have kept the old ticker pumping!.. Ha Ha.
if you are shooting geese in Canada w/t 3.5" you might want a limbsaver
I say the pads aid when shooting waterfowl loads.
Don't shoot trap, just a Hunter. Just got back from bird camp. A family member was commenting on my wingmaster 12 vs his Benelli auto saving him recoil. I'm like, we're using 8 shot. Another family member decided to eliminate all recoil by losing a piece off the gas vent on HIS Benelli. Of course, he was practicing the single shot challenge after that.
Can anyone tell if a recoil pad off the dhelf for b425 Browning please
It looked like you reset faster with the recoil pad.
Check slo mo. Reducer actually trapped your shirt.
Interesting - same person, same load, same gun with two different recoil mitigating "devices" - the person said, "not difference in feeling of recoil - ! " the david was having a numbed shoulder and forgot the physics of recoil. LMAO !
This would be a video showing " perceived recoil " as there isn't an accurate way shown to measure recoil.
Perhaps using a device between the gun pad and a stationary object such as a brick wall to measure the actual foot pound force of recoil would be a better comparison.
No disrespect fellas.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Have a good day gents.
There's an equation that calculates foot pounds of recoil. It's based on 3 variables which are firearm weight, projectile weight, and projectile speed. Change any one thing and recoil either goes up or down. There are several articles in publications that outline this.
Felt or perceived recoil can be more or less depending greatly on how the gun fits and action type. One of the reasons a semi auto feels softer is due to the moving parts of the action lengthens the recoil impulse time wise. That generally translates to more of the "push" that semi autos are known for.
This guys gun mount is terrible. Get the gun fitted man. You are mounting it in your armpit
Totally agree, gun not mounted correctly.
Try this test with a 375 meg with 300 grain! Also the only true test is to measure it. Just saying
RC50 through a Beretta Ultralight on a typical day fox hunting. What is this lightweight cartridge rubbish?