David, here in the USA the simplest solution for recoil is to shoot a smaller caliber. I shoot 4 Gun Skeet and most of the competitors use sub caliber tubes to fill out the 4 gun requirement. The end result of tubing a 12 gauge shotgun for 410 is a 10 lbs. gun sending 1/2 ounce of lead at the target at about 1200 fps. Note, Skeet shooters don't really need too much speed for the sport so we spare our shoulders and wallets by loading to a 1200 fps standard but some do like 1300 fps shells. Me, I discovered in 2021 that I'm too old to shoot a 4 gun match with 100 rounds for each caliber while swinging a 10 lbs. shotgun. So I shoot 3 different guns, a 12, 20, and 28/410 combo. The result is a 6 1/2 lbs. gun for 410 and at the end of a match I still have plenty of Pep. I'll also note that due to the cost of reloading components the 410 is now my primary practice caliber. It does force one to become a more precise shooter but it's a lot of fun when I'm hitting well and it's a lot more responsive when it gets windy.
Heavy, gas operated semi auto ,ported barrel, mercury recoil reducer, limb saver pad, extended forcing cone with over bored barrel,parallel stock. The system has little or no recoil even with 3 1/2 inch duck loads. I shoot an old Beretta 391 Teknys with this system for sporting clays.
David thanks for another video. There are 3 variables that determine measured foot pounds of recoil. Firearm weight, ejecta weight, and ejecta velocity. Change any of those up or down and foot pounds of recoil changes up or down. The recoil that we feel is changed greatly by gun fit, stock shape, type of load, and firearm action. A fixed breech gun will almost always have more felt recoil than an automatic with a gas gun having less felt recoil compared to a recoil operated gun. I own a few examples of guns that due to how they're setup are PUNISHING to shoot for me. The example that comes to mind is an Ithaca model 37 in 20 gauge with an aluminum receiver. It weighs just over 5 lb and is very light in the front end. That little thing is wonderful to carry in a hunting situation but SUCKS with just about anything I send down range. I also own one gun that due to it's light weight and such SHOULD be a hard recoiling gun but due to how it fits me and several other shooters at my local club is surprisingly soft to the point where we all shake our collective heads. That particular gun is a 1937 Superposed Trap gun. The original owner ordered it with non standard stock dimensions. And although the gun weighs just 7 lb 5 oz which is light for a target gun. It is just easy on the shoulder and face regardless of the loadings I've put through it. It's a very cool subject and a deep rabbit hole that you touched on!
Missed the most important factor that is responsible for felt recoil- gun fit, recoil pads etc do bugger all, the lop, pitch and drop are the main causes for an excessive felt recoil, pick a gun that fits and mount it properly and doesn't matter what pad etc you have
I’m kind of surprised that one factor hasn’t been touched on and a lot of manufacturers have changed this over the last few years, and that’s forcing cones and internal dimensions. Several years ago I had the forcing cones lengthened in a 12 guage and it tamed the recoil greatly. Reading up on it I found that doing this reduced felt recoil up to 40%. What it did for me was soften the punch and make that gun much more enjoyable to shoot. Browning now makes some of their guns with vector pro forcing cones or barrels and I notice the difference in them. As you said, porting also has an effect and helps a lot with muzzle flip. The back bored barrels that were advertised years ago have become commonplace, giving the charge more space to travel in. All these adjustments along with the extended choke tubes have generated a more uniform pattern , seemingly as a by product of the technology. I’m now 66 and recoil can leave me sore for a few days with the wrong gun. Thankfully, I’ve found a recent manufacture browning CXS that is comfortable to shoot and I enjoy my time with my friends at the club.
Don't forget that 21gram cartridges have less recoil, cost less and will still break any clay on any ground. You don't need 28gram it's just currently the most used.
A friend of mine had neck surgery and could not shoot a 12 ga with 24 grams Beretta 868 because of the pain. He is now shooting a Beretta A400 Xplor with no disconfort. In extreme cases, semiautos are a solutuion.
The wad type is a point I haven't considered before. Thank you. A very good discussion. When I want to run a 12-gauge, I use a IWI TS12 bullpup shotgun. While it's pretty far removed from a traditional skeet or trap scattergun, the soft shooting nature of it is impressive for a 3" magnum 12-gauge. It's a gas-operated semi-auto, which helps bleed that extra gas from the barrel after the shot/wad has moved down the barrel, similar to ported guns (or even Metro Guns which take that concept to an extreme for silencing/suppressing the report of the shot)... that's definitely a useful feature to reduce recoil. I'll admit, a 10-pound bullpup does dampen that impulse fairly well from the added weight (especially with 17 shells loaded to go), but the Benelli/Beretta Mobil choke threading also allows for muzzle breaks that help moderate the recoil pulse from the gas thrust out the front of the muzzle (the claims are that 20 to 50% of recoil is from this jet-engine-thrust like effect from the gas leaving the muzzle, even after the shot/bullet leaves the firearm). Using a muzzle break choke in tactical shotguns has a noticeable recoil reduction (maybe almost 10% or so?). I know it's not an option for most trap or skeet, but this isn't lost on makers of extended chokes that can incorporate ported/muzzle break angled holes for turkey or other hunting chokes. I appreciate you're comments about proper shoulder pocket placement as well, that my biggest concern with padded jackets (and padded inserts)... I'll definitely check out the flexible one in your video. Thank you.
My problems with recoil comes from gun fit i now shoot semi autos for everything cartridge wise i would say 21 or 24 gram cartridges are all you need for practice. poor gun fit and cheap 28g cartridges are probably always going to = recoil and a bad experience for people starting out i use to use a lot of gamebore velocity + when i started shooting clays i soon learnt less is more or to use a more premium cartridge.
I have a Browning Ultra XTR which I bought secondhand in 2014. It came with a solid hard rubber recoil pad and it hurt! Two years ago I bought a new Browning recoil pad and it totally transformed the gun. It is now so soft in the shoulder so as to be not even thinking about.
According to a top UK manufacturer Longthorn. The reason their ligh guns have reduced recoil is because metal to metal fit and double lock, is excellent, tolerances are very very fine. Hence a lot of manufacturers can adjust the fit, when metal wears.
I just switched from an Akkar game gun to a Beretta DT11 Sporting and there no real recoil...totally awesome! Another less expensive solution would be to switch to a gas gun such as Beretta A400.... No recoil at all!
I've shot for over 40 years and I do not like recoil. I recently bought a Zoli Kronos and it's the softest shooting over/under shotgun that I have ever shot. It's all due the boring of the barrels, a brilliant shotgun.
Great content again. Keep up the good work! Would love to find some skeet vests for a 12 year old, with a pocket for a recoil pad. My son has a 20g 525 with a new browning pad which helps a great deal, and this is used with 21/22 gram Hull Pro Twenty.
I have extended ported blackened stainless steel Turlock chokes on my Browning Feather 12 gauge with 26 inch barrels. One in improved cylinder and one in improved modified. And the Browning Inflex recoil pad.
Don't forget about the mercury tube that goes in the butt stock adds a little weight and drops recoil quite a bit. Along with limbsaver recoil pad I believe I've dropped recoil 50 percent
What's the range of pounds? Light range? Heavy range? I just put 3 pounds of ballast weight in a 12g with plastic hollow stock and haven't fired it yet. It was 8 pounds now it's closer to 11. Can't wait to try it out. The 8 pounds was messing me up, even with a nice cushion.
With the sole exception of when she used a semi-auto, every gun my wife has shot (instructors at game fairs) has led to her to have a bruised chest and cheek. She’s petite, narrow shouldered with a large bust and not the strongest; is it that standard dimension guns just don’t fit her? She’s been totally put off by the whole experience!
Man I have a stoeger 20 gauge coach sxs gun it was never a problem before but I was welding farm equipment slipped off the jack and crushed my shoulder and now I'm recoil sensitive it sux because I love that gun but having trouble finding low recoil ammo I'd sure hate to have to switch to 410
Why do you not recommend 21 gram for young beginners. On a previous video you stated that the 525 light had a special recoil reducer, still waiting for the system as would like to install it on my 525
The "push pull" method. Pull with trigger hand, push w support hand. Get into it, only do it when you're about to shoot and when you shoot tho, as it can get tiring.
bought a xs pro 30" shot it sunday 100 esp reg enjoyed it but sunday night neck ache and headache gun weighs 8.0 oz i was using fiochi f blues 28g any ideas ?
Teaching with plastic wad cartridges? i thought your ground was fibre only, i suffer with a rotator cuff injury so to solve the pain problem I use a beretta a400 xcel with 24g cartridges recoil what's that then 👍😁
so my son struggles with bruising on his shoulder,he wears a shoulder pad and we only use 21gs which has helped,i have been told a semi auto has less kick to it but i was thinking of getting a 20 bore?which one would you say was less kicky????
Hi Steve, I would say your son is getting bruised because the gun is not fitted to him. Gun fit is absolutely vital and I advise anyone to have the gun fitted professionally. A good DIY method I advise is to simply shut both eyes and mount the gun, open your right eye( given shooting from right shoulder and right master eye) you should now be looking STRAIGHT down the rib. If not the gun does not fit. It needs work on the stock. Best wishes.
@@redhunterknives6675 thanks for the advice i guess the only issue i should of mentioned is hes using my gun as hes not got a license so wouldn't want to make to many changes to my gun which is why i was thinking of a 20g or semi to pop in the cupboard for when he wants to come?
David, here in the USA the simplest solution for recoil is to shoot a smaller caliber. I shoot 4 Gun Skeet and most of the competitors use sub caliber tubes to fill out the 4 gun requirement. The end result of tubing a 12 gauge shotgun for 410 is a 10 lbs. gun sending 1/2 ounce of lead at the target at about 1200 fps. Note, Skeet shooters don't really need too much speed for the sport so we spare our shoulders and wallets by loading to a 1200 fps standard but some do like 1300 fps shells. Me, I discovered in 2021 that I'm too old to shoot a 4 gun match with 100 rounds for each caliber while swinging a 10 lbs. shotgun. So I shoot 3 different guns, a 12, 20, and 28/410 combo. The result is a 6 1/2 lbs. gun for 410 and at the end of a match I still have plenty of Pep. I'll also note that due to the cost of reloading components the 410 is now my primary practice caliber. It does force one to become a more precise shooter but it's a lot of fun when I'm hitting well and it's a lot more responsive when it gets windy.
Heavy, gas operated semi auto ,ported barrel, mercury recoil reducer, limb saver pad, extended forcing cone with over bored barrel,parallel stock. The system has little or no recoil even with 3 1/2 inch duck loads. I shoot an old Beretta 391 Teknys with this system for sporting clays.
Having a gun that fits, ie stock length/cast/comb height etc is right up there on the list of reducing felt recoil.
Spot on
David thanks for another video. There are 3 variables that determine measured foot pounds of recoil. Firearm weight, ejecta weight, and ejecta velocity. Change any of those up or down and foot pounds of recoil changes up or down. The recoil that we feel is changed greatly by gun fit, stock shape, type of load, and firearm action. A fixed breech gun will almost always have more felt recoil than an automatic with a gas gun having less felt recoil compared to a recoil operated gun.
I own a few examples of guns that due to how they're setup are PUNISHING to shoot for me. The example that comes to mind is an Ithaca model 37 in 20 gauge with an aluminum receiver. It weighs just over 5 lb and is very light in the front end. That little thing is wonderful to carry in a hunting situation but SUCKS with just about anything I send down range. I also own one gun that due to it's light weight and such SHOULD be a hard recoiling gun but due to how it fits me and several other shooters at my local club is surprisingly soft to the point where we all shake our collective heads. That particular gun is a 1937 Superposed Trap gun. The original owner ordered it with non standard stock dimensions. And although the gun weighs just 7 lb 5 oz which is light for a target gun. It is just easy on the shoulder and face regardless of the loadings I've put through it.
It's a very cool subject and a deep rabbit hole that you touched on!
Missed the most important factor that is responsible for felt recoil- gun fit, recoil pads etc do bugger all, the lop, pitch and drop are the main causes for an excessive felt recoil, pick a gun that fits and mount it properly and doesn't matter what pad etc you have
I’m kind of surprised that one factor hasn’t been touched on and a lot of manufacturers have changed this over the last few years, and that’s forcing cones and internal dimensions. Several years ago I had the forcing cones lengthened in a 12 guage and it tamed the recoil greatly. Reading up on it I found that doing this reduced felt recoil up to 40%. What it did for me was soften the punch and make that gun much more enjoyable to shoot. Browning now makes some of their guns with vector pro forcing cones or barrels and I notice the difference in them. As you said, porting also has an effect and helps a lot with muzzle flip. The back bored barrels that were advertised years ago have become commonplace, giving the charge more space to travel in. All these adjustments along with the extended choke tubes have generated a more uniform pattern , seemingly as a by product of the technology. I’m now 66 and recoil can leave me sore for a few days with the wrong gun. Thankfully, I’ve found a recent manufacture browning CXS that is comfortable to shoot and I enjoy my time with my friends at the club.
Don't forget that 21gram cartridges have less recoil, cost less and will still break any clay on any ground. You don't need 28gram it's just currently the most used.
Ik but 28 have a wider spread
A friend of mine had neck surgery and could not shoot a 12 ga with 24 grams Beretta 868 because of the pain. He is now shooting a Beretta A400 Xplor with no disconfort. In extreme cases, semiautos are a solutuion.
I LOVE MY SEMIAUTOMATICS!!
unfortunately not in NY state unless you get a BS license!
The wad type is a point I haven't considered before. Thank you. A very good discussion.
When I want to run a 12-gauge, I use a IWI TS12 bullpup shotgun. While it's pretty far removed from a traditional skeet or trap scattergun, the soft shooting nature of it is impressive for a 3" magnum 12-gauge. It's a gas-operated semi-auto, which helps bleed that extra gas from the barrel after the shot/wad has moved down the barrel, similar to ported guns (or even Metro Guns which take that concept to an extreme for silencing/suppressing the report of the shot)... that's definitely a useful feature to reduce recoil.
I'll admit, a 10-pound bullpup does dampen that impulse fairly well from the added weight (especially with 17 shells loaded to go), but the Benelli/Beretta Mobil choke threading also allows for muzzle breaks that help moderate the recoil pulse from the gas thrust out the front of the muzzle (the claims are that 20 to 50% of recoil is from this jet-engine-thrust like effect from the gas leaving the muzzle, even after the shot/bullet leaves the firearm). Using a muzzle break choke in tactical shotguns has a noticeable recoil reduction (maybe almost 10% or so?). I know it's not an option for most trap or skeet, but this isn't lost on makers of extended chokes that can incorporate ported/muzzle break angled holes for turkey or other hunting chokes.
I appreciate you're comments about proper shoulder pocket placement as well, that my biggest concern with padded jackets (and padded inserts)... I'll definitely check out the flexible one in your video. Thank you.
My problems with recoil comes from gun fit i now shoot semi autos for everything cartridge wise i would say 21 or 24 gram cartridges are all you need for practice. poor gun fit and cheap 28g cartridges are probably always going to = recoil and a bad experience for people starting out i use to use a lot of gamebore velocity + when i started shooting clays i soon learnt less is more or to use a more premium cartridge.
I have a Browning Ultra XTR which I bought secondhand in 2014. It came with a solid hard rubber recoil pad and it hurt! Two years ago I bought a new Browning recoil pad and it totally transformed the gun. It is now so soft in the shoulder so as to be not even thinking about.
According to a top UK manufacturer Longthorn. The reason their ligh guns have reduced recoil is because metal to metal fit and double lock, is excellent, tolerances are very very fine. Hence a lot of manufacturers can adjust the fit, when metal wears.
I just switched from an Akkar game gun to a Beretta DT11 Sporting and there no real recoil...totally awesome!
Another less expensive solution would be to switch to a gas gun such as Beretta A400.... No recoil at all!
I've shot for over 40 years and I do not like recoil. I recently bought a Zoli Kronos and it's the softest shooting over/under shotgun that I have ever shot. It's all due the boring of the barrels, a brilliant shotgun.
Great content again. Keep up the good work!
Would love to find some skeet vests for a 12 year old, with a pocket for a recoil pad.
My son has a 20g 525 with a new browning pad which helps a great deal, and this is used with 21/22 gram Hull Pro Twenty.
In the US we have the Limbsaver butt pad. The Limbsaver Air is the best. Around $35 US. Made a big difference on my Beretta A300 Outlander.
I have the browning recoil pad and have to say it works !! More so when using heavy loads
I have extended ported blackened stainless steel Turlock chokes on my Browning Feather 12 gauge with 26 inch barrels. One in improved cylinder and one in improved modified. And the Browning Inflex recoil pad.
Every time I've experienced bad recoil is when I've not mounted the gun properly. That can be 46gram 10 gauge or 21gram 20gauge.
Don't forget about the mercury tube that goes in the butt stock adds a little weight and drops recoil quite a bit. Along with limbsaver recoil pad I believe I've dropped recoil 50 percent
Eley Amber 24gram are excellent low recoil shells.
Who makes the vest in the video that you recommend.
Hi David I am surprised you didn't mention a gas semi auto for reducing recoil. A good review anyway.
I believe also barrel length effect on recoil and check ring shape.
Wow, its amazing this vidio turns up the very day i am off to the gunshop for a new recoil pad on my spanish side by side!
What's the range of pounds? Light range?
Heavy range? I just put 3 pounds of ballast weight in a 12g with plastic hollow stock and haven't fired it yet. It was 8 pounds now it's closer to 11.
Can't wait to try it out. The 8 pounds was messing me up, even with a nice cushion.
What are your thoughts on mercury tubes?
With the sole exception of when she used a semi-auto, every gun my wife has shot (instructors at game fairs) has led to her to have a bruised chest and cheek. She’s petite, narrow shouldered with a large bust and not the strongest; is it that standard dimension guns just don’t fit her? She’s been totally put off by the whole experience!
Man I have a stoeger 20 gauge coach sxs gun it was never a problem before but I was welding farm equipment slipped off the jack and crushed my shoulder and now I'm recoil sensitive it sux because I love that gun but having trouble finding low recoil ammo I'd sure hate to have to switch to 410
Semi-Autos are low recoil also! 👍🏻
Good video too by the way
do you have advice on shooting in a wheelchair?, i have strength issues and can't lean forward either
Would it be safe to shoot with the wheelchair brake off so the gun could roll u back on level ground or put the chair in sand so it gives a bit?
@@johnmoore5293 don't think so and i would get stuck in sand because my wheels are not thick enough
Why do you not recommend 21 gram for young beginners. On a previous video you stated that the 525 light had a special recoil reducer, still waiting for the system as would like to install it on my 525
In the UK can you only own single and dou le shot shot guns or can you own pump shot guns also.
You can own shotguns up to 3 shots on a standard shotgun license, anything more than that you have to apple for another type of license.
Gas operated semi auto will reduce recoil more than any of your suggestions .
If the shotgun fits you properly then there is no recoil problem. That's all.
Thear is nothing wrong with black gold cartridges i shoot black gold and dark storm in my browning and my k 80 no recoil problem 🤔
The "push pull" method. Pull with trigger hand, push w support hand. Get into it, only do it when you're about to shoot and when you shoot tho, as it can get tiring.
ported chokes that works.
bought a xs pro 30" shot it sunday 100 esp reg enjoyed it but sunday night neck ache and headache gun weighs 8.0 oz i was using fiochi f blues 28g any ideas ?
Thanks for your comment try lifting the comb up a bit if you would like to call David on 01844 238 308 he would help you out.
After heart surgery I started shooting a 28 gauge 686. Great little gun, light weight, low recoil.
Gun fit. Fundamental. Everything else mentioned in the video is secondary.
Teaching with plastic wad cartridges? i thought your ground was fibre only, i suffer with a rotator cuff injury so to solve the pain problem I use a beretta a400 xcel with 24g cartridges recoil what's that then 👍😁
i have a yildiz spz me any recommendations to reduce recoil for this one?
The same techniques as mentioned in this video! What cartridges are you using
so my son struggles with bruising on his shoulder,he wears a shoulder pad and we only use 21gs which has helped,i have been told a semi auto has less kick to it but i was thinking of getting a 20 bore?which one would you say was less kicky????
Hi Steve, I would say your son is getting bruised because the gun is not fitted to him. Gun fit is absolutely vital and I advise anyone to have the gun fitted professionally. A good DIY method I advise is to simply shut both eyes and mount the gun, open your right eye( given shooting from right shoulder and right master eye) you should now be looking STRAIGHT down the rib. If not the gun does not fit. It needs work on the stock. Best wishes.
@@redhunterknives6675 thanks for the advice i guess the only issue i should of mentioned is hes using my gun as hes not got a license so wouldn't want to make to many changes to my gun which is why i was thinking of a 20g or semi to pop in the cupboard for when he wants to come?
Porting barrels does make the gun a lot louder to all persons on the station 🙉
the best to reduce recoil is to shoot rifles that have cartridges with lighter bullets and less powder in the cartridge. Ta Da!
Avoid Sub-sonic Grounds? I’m sure the owners of those grounds will be delighted to hear of your advice to new shooters! A ridiculous suggestion!
If you can have any 3 shotguns in the world, what would you have?
Perazzi Hi-tech, Cosmi semi-automatic, Browning BSS
Porting doesn’t work
Intro music yuk lol
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