Ford Crown Victoria Redesign - The resurrection of a LEGEND

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
  • What would the Ford Crown Victoria look like if it was built today? The resurrection of a legend.
    Ford Crown Victoria redesign.
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ความคิดเห็น • 323

  • @hershy314
    @hershy314 3 ปีที่แล้ว +158

    Having owned a Crown Vic in the past, I'd drive the redesign til the wheels fell off.

    • @TheIcyWulf
      @TheIcyWulf 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Then slap some new ones on, and wait for those to wear out lmao

    • @hershy314
      @hershy314 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@TheIcyWulf damn straight

    • @DavidLLambertmobile
      @DavidLLambertmobile 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I have a used Ford CV sedan LX sport model. It has a few ⬇️s but the engine, transmission run strong. The V8 4.6L is thirsty ⛽ but very comfortable.

    • @hershy314
      @hershy314 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@DavidLLambertmobile I had a 97 CV P71, great car till the frame got a crack in it.

    • @isaacsrandomvideos667
      @isaacsrandomvideos667 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeag, it ain’t bad

  • @nothinghere7391
    @nothinghere7391 3 ปีที่แล้ว +203

    Let's be honest. The massive overhangs are one of the reasons this car looks the way it looks. And it looks beautiful

    • @T-REALB.H.N.B
      @T-REALB.H.N.B 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I love em

    • @jackyboy2593
      @jackyboy2593 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      That is also the reason I like the 90s Caprices

    • @4.6lv8victoria2
      @4.6lv8victoria2 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yeah

    • @Daize504
      @Daize504 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I don't like the bumper lips but it is beautiful. I love mine

    • @stunnaxhigh360
      @stunnaxhigh360 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I love that bubble butt

  • @tylertlg
    @tylertlg 3 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    As a current owner of a Vic I absolutely love everything about this redesign, great work

  • @MyLife-so1jl
    @MyLife-so1jl 3 ปีที่แล้ว +82

    this looks 100 times COOLER than any modern jellybean sedan out there.

  • @brx3649
    @brx3649 3 ปีที่แล้ว +78

    It's amazing how much more we appreciate the Crown Vic now than we did back then. True work horse.

    • @vegascvpiaaron6807
      @vegascvpiaaron6807 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yep

    • @SnoopEastwood
      @SnoopEastwood 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Because we know how badass and reliable they are I still own one 2004

  • @AdamBrunson
    @AdamBrunson 3 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    That’s just a 90s infinity now.

    • @GaryKetchum808
      @GaryKetchum808 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Lmao yeah, it doesn’t look modern.

    • @FrostTheGlaceon
      @FrostTheGlaceon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I never watch this guy anymore, when he gets reccomended I take a look at the end of the vide to have a good laugh and then go to see if anyone shares the same opinions

    • @aaron_k4787
      @aaron_k4787 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@FrostTheGlaceon He has this formula of 'being modern' which he had established in his college year and applies it to every car he touches. It might satisfy the general public but no one in the car industry will take him seriously. However I still enjoy his content for car's history (he's an exellent story teller) and good chuckles at the end.

    • @empathetic4100
      @empathetic4100 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@FrostTheGlaceon at-lease he has passion in what he’s making, not many you tubers have that now a days

  • @RazvanMihaeanu
    @RazvanMihaeanu 3 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    Crown Vic today: Ford Explorer 2020 Interceptor with cut D-pillars.
    Sedan!
    That's right, Ford Explorer 2020...Sedan!

    • @TheIcyWulf
      @TheIcyWulf 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      You might be onto something there…

    • @RazvanMihaeanu
      @RazvanMihaeanu 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@TheIcyWulf I hope SM (SketchMonkey) also stands for..."Sedan Mafia"!

    • @mravocadoman2904
      @mravocadoman2904 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@RazvanMihaeanu sedan mafia let's gooo!

    • @ocashflo
      @ocashflo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The last model Taurus and Explorer were on the same platform. So your design idea is very feasible.

  • @ISOCZAR
    @ISOCZAR 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Congratulations you made an Acura Legend

    • @Revenant7n
      @Revenant7n 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Came here to say the same. Or if they'd made a 5th gen Prelude sedan, which is basically an Accord. And yep, that checks out, this is the exact design language of the 6th gen Accord stretched to RWD proportions. Those are all handsome cars, so no complaint here.

    • @chrishayes8197
      @chrishayes8197 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      yup - and it looks great. I had a '93 Legend, my favorite car I've owned. I'd love to have a Vic sized one today.

  • @smokeycat132
    @smokeycat132 3 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Also I like the older design better. Just modernize the lights to LEDs and just leave it. It was perfect

  • @BaDArxz
    @BaDArxz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I took my driving test in a Grand Marquess… The thing drove like a dream

  • @mikepetersons1319
    @mikepetersons1319 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    how to turn a crown vic rear-end into a modern looking 90s Oldsmobile regency/88 rear-end

  • @DemeDemetre
    @DemeDemetre 3 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    year 2 of asking him to turn a Gaz-21 series 3 into a retro SUV. come on!

    • @mirisch64
      @mirisch64 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Year 2 answering: we already have GAZ-22 on the UAZ chassis, which looks good, and was successfully produced for some government organisations.

    • @DemeDemetre
      @DemeDemetre 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mirisch64 im asking for him to merge the Gaz 21 with some old SUV, for example the ford bronco.

    • @rippy4260
      @rippy4260 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Year 2 of asking a s12 modern redesign
      Yet nowdays i think it will be more interesting seeing a mazda cosmo redesign

    • @mirisch64
      @mirisch64 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@DemeDemetre so, you don't indentify UAZ 469 as an old SUV? Interesting opinion!

    • @DemeDemetre
      @DemeDemetre 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mirisch64 no, it is an old retro SUV, but that car is not rare where i live and that's why I want him to do it with a Bronco or some other foreign car

  • @Susan-vp1qk
    @Susan-vp1qk 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That looks like MY 2004 Vic I’ve owned since 2007. I LOVE my VIC!

  • @abrahamcasanova9901
    @abrahamcasanova9901 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    That’s a car I wold definitely want to drive.

  • @cody4417
    @cody4417 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    god this is amazing, that rear design is almost perfect. i think it would have looked even better with larger-sidewall tires fitted, but that's just me.

    • @calebmastruserio7811
      @calebmastruserio7811 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I 100% agree. If ford put a 5.0 rear wheel drive wit this I’m sold

  • @FinalLuigi
    @FinalLuigi 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    If the Panthers ever made a comeback, regulations and market changes have made sure it would never be a sedan again. They were body on frame, rear wheel drive, and shared their drivetrains with trucks and vans, they are more of a 'truck' than all these front wheel drive, unibody 'SUVs'. Chrysler claimed the PT Cruiser was a 'light truck', I don't see why Ford couldn't lie about this.

  • @TheZProtocol
    @TheZProtocol 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That rear end looks a lot like the rear end off a last gen Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme sedan!

    • @hotrodray6802
      @hotrodray6802 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thats exactly what I said. 👍👍

  • @itsmaize9626
    @itsmaize9626 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I love this car I have an 07 Lincoln towncar and it has been amazing it is so comfortable and I would definitely recommend for a first car

    • @jasonchristopher2977
      @jasonchristopher2977 ปีที่แล้ว

      So do i. A designer. I got 118k miles. Cashmere tri coat, carriage top, Love the car. How about u? Saw 1 today that went 842k miles. Insane.

  • @woodswolfairsoft347
    @woodswolfairsoft347 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Dude this car was just amazing truly one of the best modern day cars back then

  • @pantherplatform
    @pantherplatform 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love backing my Panthers up to the curb so it blocks the entire sidewalk. The hitch adds another 1½' to the rear so it's even worse. Got all 2003 Panthers, including a mint 2003 Marauder. They're all real 03's too. Some 03's are really 04's and there's a considerable difference.

  • @keikun6969original
    @keikun6969original 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    You were talking about how a Honda hit the Volvo and was destroyed essentially, I have a similar story. I have a 1994 F-250 with the chrome bumpers front and back, it's an extended cab, and One of those little Smart Cars slammed into me at 35 mph in the right side of my rear bumper. My bumper had a small dent in it as in it was bent slightly up at an angle and he was so far under the bed of my truck, that it literally was sitting on his lap. Luckily the guy was not hurt but it did take some time to get his ass out of the vehicle lol.

  • @BobKenge
    @BobKenge 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    @TheSketchMonkey
    How about taking the current Lincoln Continental and converting it into a Crown Vic?

    • @bobb7993
      @bobb7993 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Change the badge. Voila! Done

  • @michaeldamon7500
    @michaeldamon7500 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That large overhang is to allow for big trunk space which in turn allows you too comfortably store a dead body 😊

  • @fredkennedy8435
    @fredkennedy8435 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I think I prefer the 2019 remodel you did with the silver car. Looked muscle carish.

  • @superzati3285
    @superzati3285 3 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Please do an episode where you fix the UGLY design of the Ford edsel ( the 1958 model)

  • @Poopsticle_256
    @Poopsticle_256 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I will say, I absolutely love that rear end. The taillights remind me of a fifth generation Honda Accord, a first generation Dodge Neon, and also especially with the black piece in the middle, an Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme.

  • @OECEntertainment
    @OECEntertainment 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I think it looks really cool! I wish the trunk reverse lights could’ve still been included in some modern way

  • @puff5074
    @puff5074 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You should seriously make a wagon version of the Crown Vic

  • @samingram897
    @samingram897 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I drive a 2011 LX. If I ever have the money, I'll build your design. I love the look. Great job and mad photoshop skills.

  • @DS71547
    @DS71547 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    you just made a 90s ES300. love it!!
    I miss long, low cars, they don't make them like this any more...

  • @sreher098
    @sreher098 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Love the crown Vic I wish you could still get one for 600 in good condition they going for like 2000+

  • @coldinwisconsin2017
    @coldinwisconsin2017 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Please please please modernize a 2001 Grand Prix GTP. I would love a vision of what a modern Pontiac would look like!!

  • @dkruitz
    @dkruitz 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I am on my 2nd Grand Marquis. 500,000 miles between the two of them. 240 Volvo a true classic too, had an 86 wagon.

  • @georgivanev7466
    @georgivanev7466 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Say whatever you want but the Crown Victoria is one of the best cars humans ever made.

  • @5amH45lam
    @5amH45lam 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    _Volvo 240_ in Sweden ≈ _Ford Crown Vic_ in the US. 👍

  • @owenjahn
    @owenjahn 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You kinda made us look like an LS400, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that!😂 great work

    • @DS71547
      @DS71547 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      ah I literally just posted that it looks like my ES300 😊

  • @beauxguidry5373
    @beauxguidry5373 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The difference between this car and something made today when you are talking about the rear of the car is that it is long enough so that everyone in the back seat, and yes that would include Basketball players, are comfortable.

  • @mohamudmohamud8557
    @mohamudmohamud8557 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Please @ford make this Crown Victoria design come alive, absolutely stunning for 2024

  • @TheHabibalby
    @TheHabibalby 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm ready to pay upfront if i can purchase this car and get it next year, perhaps 😂😂

  • @suzieq9009
    @suzieq9009 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I still own a 2001 Mercury grand marquis smooth ride I'm 3rd owner only put 20,000 miles on it. I've owned it for 4 years has always been well serviced and taken care of great car

  • @Friedrich-Wilhelm-1980
    @Friedrich-Wilhelm-1980 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i think one of the worst things about modern cars is lack of visibility small windows = fatalities i love my 1982 and 1986 F150-F250 because the cab is like a glass bubble and you have full 360 degree vision no blind spots no foot wide pillars obstructing your view

  • @bhicks566
    @bhicks566 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I still have my Grand Marquis and it has a 351 Windsor, with a P71 short throw tranny in it. She's a real beast! 💯

  • @schultzdivision6749
    @schultzdivision6749 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Make an Ellert in a modern style

  • @TheAtb85
    @TheAtb85 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think that a coupe version would be interesting. Something like a Ford Silvia. :D

  • @roadsofhahnisland2007
    @roadsofhahnisland2007 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My dad has a '03 Lincoln Towncar, it's a great car

  • @minutemanproductions8029
    @minutemanproductions8029 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well done mate, that is a worthy redesign

  • @FalconTerritory
    @FalconTerritory 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    in Australia the car similar to the crown vic would probably be the BF-BA ford falcon or even the ford fairlane. btw the crown vic is one of the most beautiful cars ever made.

  • @paullopez7561
    @paullopez7561 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I liked very much the re--design
    If FORD would have built it
    I would buy it

  • @gabrielgomez731
    @gabrielgomez731 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I absolutely love your videos!! I just wish you did front and back on your redesign

  • @joshjack6127
    @joshjack6127 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Those are Chrysler 300C SRT Design wheels 👍 great redesign as always!

  • @randybourdon2791
    @randybourdon2791 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great transformation!

  • @ayedayedh
    @ayedayedh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The Ford Crown Victoria, Ford Grand Marquis and Ford Lincoln Town Car were preserved on the original American prestige.🇺🇸 🇨🇱 100 %
    Other than General Motors, its car has become similar to Korean and Japanese cars

  • @jefffagans5798
    @jefffagans5798 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    He focus so much on the back and bottom of redesign of the car that he forgotten about the head light that he delete so I guess this car don't need it anymore.

  • @leviridgeway5873
    @leviridgeway5873 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I feel like the new Vic would come with like 300hp stock if it were real, and it would probably compete with the Chevy ss

  • @axelmallet1957
    @axelmallet1957 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Amazing video, I've always been a huge fan of the Crown Vic, but 8:25 for your info, is the 1998 to 2011 model. The 1991-1997 is slightly different.

  • @Tom-to5xt
    @Tom-to5xt 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I would like to see the 90s golf country redesign.

  • @texknight67
    @texknight67 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Flattering our the trunk is a mistake. That little bit up up tilt in the trunk lid served a purpose. I was driving a '94 pegged out and it drifted between two lanes of interstate. After the change on 96 or whenever it was, it was much better. Plus you need rear side marker lights for it to be legal.

  • @shazboz
    @shazboz 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    actually looks sick.

  • @saftpackerl
    @saftpackerl 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Looks great.
    Very sleek.
    You have included the front bumper split line, but not the rear one.

  • @wyattwalker7988
    @wyattwalker7988 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That one with the weird camper topper I see all the time in Missoula, MT. That's cool it some how got in this video.

  • @luckyPiston
    @luckyPiston 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Blacking out the B-pillars changes the whole look of the top half of the car ! kooool ....

  • @ivarpm
    @ivarpm 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Please, make a modern version of the Chevrolet Caprice!

  • @TheAutisticOwl
    @TheAutisticOwl 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Crown Vic has one dumptruck 🍑 of an overhang.

  • @jamiekelly552
    @jamiekelly552 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Panther platform is just reliability at its finest.. all 3 cars crown vic. Grand marquis. Town car all tanks and all will last you alot longer then most modern electrical junk piles

  • @AishwaryamArchitectsTips
    @AishwaryamArchitectsTips 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    good job

  • @steverobsondiecast
    @steverobsondiecast 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I like the redesign. Too bad the overall design of the car (full frame, etc) would have to given up and take away some of the tuff car feel that the old one had. The look itself is one it would drive. BTY I live in the area where the Crown Vic was built (Talbotville, ON ) and have meet a some of the line workers. The factory that built the car is no more. It was taken down a few years ago. When it was up and running it was nice seeing the newly built cars on the lot ready to going to there final places.

  • @stevenwilhite4026
    @stevenwilhite4026 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I love your changes. I always felt like Ford failed to take any risks with it. I suppose, considering the buyers, that was intentional

  • @ModestNeophyte
    @ModestNeophyte 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    That taillight shape makes it look like a 1992 Oldsmobile 88

  • @horaciomanuelreyesgonzalez555
    @horaciomanuelreyesgonzalez555 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    For Mexico, historic cars would be the VW Sedan and Nissan Tsuru being both very popular cars and long year productions for both of them

  • @chernikov_vlad
    @chernikov_vlad 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice work!

  • @mikehill5301
    @mikehill5301 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I dont do much videos but you managed to combine several super irritating things in one video congratulations. You are a winner this is the most irritating thing I've seen all day you sir are number 1.

  • @thegooddoctor6719
    @thegooddoctor6719 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dude - WTF - You did this before - Remember: "Ford Crown Vic Re-design - Modernizing a Legend" on •Dec 21, 2019 - SHEEEEEEESH

  • @user-xd9xh2gy7v
    @user-xd9xh2gy7v 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice cars! I love you, Ford Crown Victoria.

  • @Calebnelson24
    @Calebnelson24 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    In the redesign I’m seeing the rear based off the 1993-1994 aero Vic. The overall shape is still the whale Vic, and the front is a mix of the aero, and the whale

  • @vegascvpiaaron6807
    @vegascvpiaaron6807 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I remember when you did this a while ago also I think you meant you were focusing on the 98 to 11 model lol

  • @TheIcyWulf
    @TheIcyWulf 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Gorgeous.

  • @kadenolson9612
    @kadenolson9612 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I drove a crown Vic for a couple months and it was great… until I drove it off a ditch at about 35 and very quickly relocated the radiator to under the engine. It still ran but it didn’t have any fluids in the motor.

  • @imvivalamilo
    @imvivalamilo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Combine a Porsche Cayenne with the new 911 GT3!

  • @corrado9683
    @corrado9683 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Not bad. The guy’s got talent. I’d probably be afraid that I would lose the full size feeling while driving.

    • @priscillaharden2236
      @priscillaharden2236 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Right. Just purchased a 99' CV and I wouldn't change much about it other then the usual wheels, add tint and update the radio sys. Unless they start selling cassette tapes again

  • @krabstickle
    @krabstickle 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    As I said - with challenges: Modernize a VW Type-3 Squareback but coloured in Peanut Butter and Jelly colours... Guess why?

  • @FreFa-ch
    @FreFa-ch 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You can't improve what has already been perfect. They should add a modern drive-train to it and sell it as it was back in the days.

  • @benscott7871
    @benscott7871 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    11:25 introducing the all new Chrysler 120😂

  • @ocashflo
    @ocashflo 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wish you could have given it the current modern Blue Oval design. Giving it a place in the line up.

  • @computerman3004
    @computerman3004 ปีที่แล้ว

    Everyone needs the crown victoria back from the dead 💀

  • @ayedayedh
    @ayedayedh 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Ford Crown Victoria and Ford Grand Marquis are sacred cars in the Middle East and more sales in the Gulf countries and America

  • @mr.rosenberg9047
    @mr.rosenberg9047 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your Volvo 240 SUV also showed up when you googled Volvo 240

  • @salrossi2576
    @salrossi2576 ปีที่แล้ว

    They should make this for 2024 and then make a 4 dr convertible version with different color tops. Perfection. It will be the resurrection of the 4 dr convertible and Crown Victoria at the same time. They haven't had the 4 dr convertible since the 67 Lincoln Continental I believe in the U.S.

  • @allendavis8836
    @allendavis8836 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love the look of this crown Vic wow I would love to have 1.

  • @aidaaliten8817
    @aidaaliten8817 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wont be surprised if they bring it back as a suv

  • @TheColosiss
    @TheColosiss 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a 2004 lincoln town car Ultimate in red. It's a fantastic vehicle.

  • @GTFORDMAN
    @GTFORDMAN 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    you just created a 2002 Australian Ford Fairlane!

  • @imortalkingpoe
    @imortalkingpoe 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awd and a v8, v10, and v12 options. Raise it up a bit for more clearance. Almost a small truck clerance.

  • @storm8663
    @storm8663 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    6th Gen Honda Accord???👀
    I’ll say your “2019 Crown Vic redesign” was sick!!!

  • @cemsengul16
    @cemsengul16 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Every Crown Victoria needs a Coyote swap stat!

  • @Onimalap
    @Onimalap 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Looks cool, well done. Last piece is fuel cap. Only few cars have them round these days.

  • @Feidler97
    @Feidler97 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good good.. now Crown Vic as a ✨cross-over✨! 🤣

  • @millerkiller6496
    @millerkiller6496 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do a redesign of a Packard if it isn’t too much trouble

  • @hotrodray6802
    @hotrodray6802 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Bug me. Now Im gonna have to do mine 👍
    Ive been looking for a 10-11 but I might just fix the one I have.

  • @joemoney6962
    @joemoney6962 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Add a moderate engine too boost the speed with that new design and im at the car lot asap...

  • @smolcaleb
    @smolcaleb 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    now you have to do the front too