Greeting Kindred, tonight we take a look at one of the most devious disciplines available to the Kindred. Why the Toreador are feared by any vampire with half a mind. Presence.
That is a true concern. The idea that your existance is all that is truly comprehensible in the world is a trap that this discipline can put you in. The idea of clan Toreador being full of narcissists does come from something after all. But there is another side to this aswell. The idea that the user of Presence uses the power so much that they can't tell if anyone is ever being genuine. There's a loneliness there.
You can buy level 1 powers as level 2. you don't have to take lingering kiss before dread gaze, Awe and Daunt (or Awe and Serpent's kiss, ect) will suffice. I'm pretty certain some of the NPC/SPC sheets presented have 'no powers of a particular level.
Thank you for that Skye. Seriously that has been one of the things that I have beein trying to wrap my head around since I started using this system. I knew you could go back and by earlier levels but the mechanics of it just didn't make sense to me.
@@VoivodeMekhet I'm with you. It was a bit of a trip for me as well, coming from V20 and first ed Requiem, this was odd to me, but it clicked eventually.
Back in the day when we all were young and unexperienced, we all thought presence is a BS discipline with no value in combat. Boy, were we wrong! I actually learned in LARP how crazy powerful it can be. Meating a Toreador elder, using presence to get the attention an approval of an entire room full of vampires, basically the entire domain, was impressive. Later in a Requiem LARP I played a character who was completely build around the idea of having Majesty (the VtR equivalent to presence) as his only but well-developed tool. Having only, it I came up with a new way to use it creatively about every other session. That would also be my recommendation for everyone to try. Just every once in a while, make a character with very limited abilities, only one discipline for example (V5 does not really allow that but having only one good one and another dot in a second is close) and then try to figure out what you achieve with this alone. It has certainly allowed me to appreciate majesty/presence a lot more, and it is just fun to use your brain and creativity instead of just numbers on your character sheet and ready-made descriptions in the rule book.
Absolutely! Playing a character that has chosen to specialize in one power can be a challenge to overcome because if you're not careful it can get boring after a time.
About discipline levels and powers, you don’t need to have a power of each level to move on, you just need to have the discipline at the respected level. See it that way: you basically raise your discipline level like an attribute or a skill and you get an empty slot for a power on top. The power you chose can be of any level equal or lower than your level in this discipline. That becomes obvious when you look at how you make rolls for discipline effects in this edition. You don’t use skills for it anymore but the discipline rating itself. The discipline kind of becomes a skill. That is why raising your discipline is pretty powerful now, because you don’t just get a new power but you automatically get better in each power you already poses (another reason why there will never be a discipline level above 5 in this edition because it would make characters crazy powerful). You have many disciplines with just one power at e certain level, that is not a problem since you can always pick a power from the level below if the only power presented does not suits your needs or taste. That sometimes may feel like vesting something, since you are stuck with the entrance level stuff while other might already move on, but keep in mind, that the level of the discipline will raise, no matter what, and therefore most available powers rise in their effectiveness too, as if they would be of a higher level.
What is your opinion about multiple sources of presence working together? For example a group of ghouls playing music with awe being the center of attention. Maybe two dancers adding extra oomph to each others performance like a tango. Or a good cop bad cop using awe and daunt but with an audience…
There are pretty great ghoul rules in the players guide. I would love to run a full ghoul game at some point. I'm actually sitting on a plotline for that exact setting. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will hire me to run it, lol.
I wish. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like that's going to happen. Many of the WoD NPC elders that have either returned from the Backoning or just never went don't seem to have anything over the fifth level of any given discipline. I really hope this isn't something that stays the way it is because Elder Disciplines have always been something I've loved about VtM. Even if they make it so that Vampires of 5th Gen and lower start getting stronger powers and anyone who is an elder can just buy the skipped powers within the already provided material I'd be happy.
Great video, as always! I can’t help but think how damaging Presence can be to its user. If abused, it could become a one-way trip to solipsism.
That is a true concern. The idea that your existance is all that is truly comprehensible in the world is a trap that this discipline can put you in. The idea of clan Toreador being full of narcissists does come from something after all. But there is another side to this aswell. The idea that the user of Presence uses the power so much that they can't tell if anyone is ever being genuine. There's a loneliness there.
You can buy level 1 powers as level 2. you don't have to take lingering kiss before dread gaze, Awe and Daunt (or Awe and Serpent's kiss, ect) will suffice. I'm pretty certain some of the NPC/SPC sheets presented have 'no powers of a particular level.
Thank you for that Skye. Seriously that has been one of the things that I have beein trying to wrap my head around since I started using this system. I knew you could go back and by earlier levels but the mechanics of it just didn't make sense to me.
@@VoivodeMekhet I'm with you. It was a bit of a trip for me as well, coming from V20 and first ed Requiem, this was odd to me, but it clicked eventually.
Dread gaze was a level 2 power in Revised edition. And it should be level 2 here. Major oversight
Back in the day when we all were young and unexperienced, we all thought presence is a BS discipline with no value in combat. Boy, were we wrong! I actually learned in LARP how crazy powerful it can be. Meating a Toreador elder, using presence to get the attention an approval of an entire room full of vampires, basically the entire domain, was impressive. Later in a Requiem LARP I played a character who was completely build around the idea of having Majesty (the VtR equivalent to presence) as his only but well-developed tool. Having only, it I came up with a new way to use it creatively about every other session.
That would also be my recommendation for everyone to try. Just every once in a while, make a character with very limited abilities, only one discipline for example (V5 does not really allow that but having only one good one and another dot in a second is close) and then try to figure out what you achieve with this alone. It has certainly allowed me to appreciate majesty/presence a lot more, and it is just fun to use your brain and creativity instead of just numbers on your character sheet and ready-made descriptions in the rule book.
Absolutely! Playing a character that has chosen to specialize in one power can be a challenge to overcome because if you're not careful it can get boring after a time.
About discipline levels and powers, you don’t need to have a power of each level to move on, you just need to have the discipline at the respected level. See it that way: you basically raise your discipline level like an attribute or a skill and you get an empty slot for a power on top. The power you chose can be of any level equal or lower than your level in this discipline.
That becomes obvious when you look at how you make rolls for discipline effects in this edition. You don’t use skills for it anymore but the discipline rating itself. The discipline kind of becomes a skill. That is why raising your discipline is pretty powerful now, because you don’t just get a new power but you automatically get better in each power you already poses (another reason why there will never be a discipline level above 5 in this edition because it would make characters crazy powerful).
You have many disciplines with just one power at e certain level, that is not a problem since you can always pick a power from the level below if the only power presented does not suits your needs or taste. That sometimes may feel like vesting something, since you are stuck with the entrance level stuff while other might already move on, but keep in mind, that the level of the discipline will raise, no matter what, and therefore most available powers rise in their effectiveness too, as if they would be of a higher level.
That is an amazing description of the way V5 discipline trees work.
Daunt always reminds me of that scene from PeeWee Herman’s Big Adventure when he hisses at the street toughs and scares them off
lol, PeeWee's Dread Gaze.
Thank you sir!
You are very welcome.
What is your opinion about multiple sources of presence working together? For example a group of ghouls playing music with awe being the center of attention. Maybe two dancers adding extra oomph to each others performance like a tango. Or a good cop bad cop using awe and daunt but with an audience…
Great question and I think it is a great example of why groups with powers are dangerous and add a lot to a game. I say bring coop on.
@@VoivodeMekhet heh this is why we need a ghoul game
There are pretty great ghoul rules in the players guide. I would love to run a full ghoul game at some point. I'm actually sitting on a plotline for that exact setting. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will hire me to run it, lol.
Do you think there will be powers higher than 5 in next books?
I wish. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like that's going to happen. Many of the WoD NPC elders that have either returned from the Backoning or just never went don't seem to have anything over the fifth level of any given discipline. I really hope this isn't something that stays the way it is because Elder Disciplines have always been something I've loved about VtM. Even if they make it so that Vampires of 5th Gen and lower start getting stronger powers and anyone who is an elder can just buy the skipped powers within the already provided material I'd be happy.