My grandmother was starting to feel a bit stiff and started doing Tai Chi in her early 70s. She's now 95 yers old and she still attends class 3 times a week. She also walks to her classes there and back, and socialises with most of the other students. I'm absolutely convinced that her health, fluidity of movements, and halted physical decrepitude is largely down to the practice of Tai Chi.
I agree. I trained with a guy who had trained Chen Tai Chi with Ren Guan Yi......he trained Silat with me and we weren't much different in weight but there was an arm wrap takedown attempt I tried while he had loose arms and relaxed body and I couldn't unbalance him at all. I couldn't even make his weight shift to his heels or stumble. When I did the takedown on me all he did was shook his waist and I flew around his body like a little kid. His striking techniques felt like getting hit with a delayed battering ram........like one.....TWO! Initial hit then huge percussive thud/reverberation
Maybe significantly skilled is a better word, but I know what you mean. Isn't it best to train with a significantly trained partner. How else to get better?
Finally SOMEONE SAID IT!I learned Hung Gar Kung Fu and Tai Chi as one of my first serious arts and frankly couldnt really make heads or tails of it. I have now been learning Muay Thai and wrestling for the past two years and EVERYTHING from those arts started to click. Tai Chi has so much potential, lost be hind shit teachers and mysticism. Taichi is a great art to learn as a secondary or tertiary art and i think people really need to let go of it being trash.
@@neutrino78x where is Tai chi fighter? Hung gar fighter? No fighter wants to practice it as the only martial art to bring his bread to the table, and we all see it, ok.
Lets get heavy on the real tai chi , theres amazing chen and yang style masters, come on bring it let's see a tai chi master schooling mma dongs! Please! 🤙
@@neutrino78x actually there are a lot of moves in especially traditional martial arts that simply are not effective for what they're trying to achieve. Doesn't detract from the good moves, but when the focus of an art shifts from application to preservation, it's only logical that overall functionality will suffer. Also why ask a Chinese American guy? By your logic shouldn't we only consult Chinese masters? People foreign to the original culture can become experts at a martial art, you know. If that weren't the case, taekwondo, muay thai, judo, etc. would be relegated to their home countries and BJJ simply wouldn't exist.
Hello Ramsey. I have found that a MMA fight is fought by people that train eight hours a day. That is why they are tough. It's not that one style is better than another. Tai chi is effective if you train daily and understand how and when to apply it. I practise Kung Fu, Tai chi and recently chin na. I have a daughter and a job. I no longer want to fight, but still enjoy practise. I was watching some MMA jiu jitsu. I saw a lot of what I practise with slight variations. As humans we have a limited range of movements. It's about the right move at the right time. Like practical chess. I have just subscribed to your channel. Thank you for appreciating tradition.
Hot take: even as it is taught now, Tai chi IS one of the best martial arts ever because it has been proven extremely effective. Effective against sedentarism that is. As sad as it is that the meaning and practical applications of the art have been misunderstood, it is a net positive that thousands of older people practice the forms because it keeps them active. And that's worth more than even the best trained punching technique for the vast majority of people.
@E The point of the video is that, when properly practiced and trained, Tai chi is a great practical martial art. My take is that even poorly taught larping is great because of the health benefits.
I remember a capoeira mestre getting asked (as usual) whether capoeira was any good for self defence: "First of all, let's be realistic - most of us are going to die in hospital with tubes stikcing out of us."
Extremely well said! I started my martial art career doing tai chi chuan and my first teacher, the first lesson, has been very very honest. He went: "Traditionally Tai Chi was a secret discipline, taught to family members and to people who were already black belts (whatever it meant at that time) in an 'external martial art'. Nowadays...well...let's start the lesson". It took me two decades of martial arts with contact and your video where you grab the foot of the opponent and do the circular movement, to understand what my first teacher meant. Thanks!
Real Tai Chi is an internal martial art that is deadly. Now think about it, why would someone teach a lot of people how to go around killing other people? They wouldn't, and didn't... they just taught a fake version of it so they got PAID for classes. To learn real Tai Chi you have to do years of meditation (Nei Gong) along with years or decades of hard wrestling or boxing and fighting along with years of the kata (Tai Chi forms.) Most masters I've seen went from the HARD martial arts then to the SOFT martial arts... because you have to build up tremendous power to be soft. Being soft takes HARD... it's the Yin/Yang... It won't work unless your teacher is a real master and willing to teach you the real secrets that could allow you to kill him. Traditionally real martial arts masters never taught the real things just out of self preservation. And the internal aspect is the hardest part of the whole thing and borders on spiritual possession, that's why I stopped training martial arts. This two part series explains more, but not everything, since they don't teach everything to everyone, like I said. The master show in in this video is just a student but everyone sees him as a master which he even says he is not when he says he doesn't know how it works. th-cam.com/video/WGEP5X78G1w/w-d-xo.html
As someone that taught traditional Tai Chi (Yang style) and Kung Fu (Choy Li Fut) for five years, I LOVE this video and I'm so happy someone is acknowledging that Tai Chi is a grappling style. I'd love to hear your thoughts on Choy Li Fut in a video, too.
I'll tell you what my CLF instructor told me when I asked about how CLF should look in application. He said, "Watch Marvin Hagler". I can be a little more specific than that. Watch Marvin Hagler's footwork and turn all those big arm circles in the form into smaller, tighter circles. The big circles teach the full range of motion and force good body mechanics, but are not application. This YT channel has great breakdowns of mechanics. I'd also say watch Ramon Dekkers as well. Slight lateral shifts open holes in the opponent's defense. th-cam.com/video/xnLMUy2ifFs/w-d-xo.html
I have to say, this was great, because I saw that previous video about the 80-year-old person, and that he was an expert grappler, and I think about that more and more as I get more grappling experience. And no joke, the other day one of the white belts straight-up said "sometimes it looks like you're doing kung fu", or something like that. Mind blown. Thanks for the great videos!
This is one of the things I appreciated about my Soo Bahk Do instructors. The Kyo Sa (head instructor) was a patrol officer in a violent area for ten-years and used his art in the real-world and the Sa Bom (Master instructor, dojang owner) was a US ranked fighter in the '80s. We learned the applications for everything as we were learning. For example, you know that thing that looks like you're two-hand punching (or throwing a hyoducken) someone with your rear hand over your head, punching to their face, and your lead hand punching their chest? Wrong application. It's a high block and an upper cut (or shovel jab), thrown at the same time. That block can be hard style like blocking a round kick in kickboxing or it can be soft style and redirect into a grab, while the strike disrupts their reaction for a moment... and maybe KO's them if you're fortunate. The important thing to remember is that, in practical application, you won't perform this the same way you do while it's in the hyung (kata). It has to be free-sparred and trained to work in practical application before you can use it. We can see this practical application in Muay Thai's long guard. The lead-hand blocks an incoming rear-hand from your opponent and you respond with a cross. You can clinch from that block or you can clear. Same same, different arts.
No one uses long guard to throw a cross in Muay Thai, and certainly not at the same time, it would be long guard, then cross. Link a single video where someone uses a long guard and punches at the same time please.
6:12 "Tang lang" (螳螂) means Praying Mantis in Mandarin, "Zhang Lang" (蟑螂) means cockroach in Mandarin, just to clear up the confusion. Thanks for the vids coach, keep up the good work 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
My first introduction into martial arts was 7 years ago when I started learning tai chi from a friend who had studied it his whole life and had even spent some months at the Chen village in China. I’ve trained it ever since. Alongside it however, I devolved a deep passion for all martial arts and began practicing wing chun, Brazilian jiu jitsu, and baguazhang. In the begging, martial was vastly too complex for me to fathom in it’s entirety but I’ve come to learn that it is the absolute truth in life and that it applies in all contexts. That being said, Tai Chi has gifted me with not only its physical movements and flexibility, but if you take the time to dive into the true tradition of what Tai Chi is the wealth of information and perspective it has to offer is unparalleled in my eyes. It is the art of fighting without fighting and using the opponent to offset himself, not only physically but mentally and spiritually. A master is masterful regardless of his style, not because of what he knows, but how he knows it. There are many ways to plow a field but Tai Chi will teach you to plow it well, as efficiently as you can, with a smile on your face. And that is something I’ve carried through the door of every martial arts class I’ve had since. Thank you very much for your Videos Ramsey, blessings be with you, the people of China and the whole world. We are all one family. To anyone who actually read this, thank you sincerely and good luck on your journey. I would like nothing more for us all to hold hands at the top of the mountain.
Woah you also do Baguazhang!! I agree with many things that you said but not about Taichi being unparalleled on the ways you described it. There are many arts that do or try to do exactly what you described, fighting without fighting, using their power against them, defeating them spirituallly and such, you are describing Aikido! Judo also tries to get into the same ground. But yes, yes Taichi is awesome and it deserves better, many Chinese martial arts do (like Baguazhan and Bajiquan) but they are labeled as useless because of bad teachers and lost training methods (i think)
@@jestfullgremblim8002 you’re correct. It was a bit arrogant for me to put it that way. I believe what I meant was that it was the one branch of teachings that allowed me to see things clearly for the first time and so it is one I hold very dear. Thank you
I taught taijiquan for years privately. People have serious misunderstandings about taijiquan. I told students if you want to fight in 6 mth go learn boxing or muay Thai but if you want to be able to defend yourself in your 80s ok, train with me. Students that had martial arts background grasp the combat aspect at beginner level first, however they focus on the form as shadow boxing (beginner level). Yes at beginner level there are grappling, striking ect contained in each posture but focusing on applications you won't get taiji and you will never be able to use "applications " under real chaotic combat. Each posture is to teach principles in power generation and is done internally, the posture shape helps you learn that principle and can then be tested for quality etc. Taijiquan is a set of combat/power generating principles, fighting with taijiquan will not look like a Donny Yen movie it will look like fighting. How do I know this? I lived as an inner door disciple with my sifu and Dai Sifu, and worked as a bouncer in Phuket bars (Southern Thailand). Taiji works, few understand it, fewer have the authentic transmission and even less can identify the authentic from hand waving slow steppers. I also recommend serious taijiquan boxing students after a couple of years start gently sparring with mma, muay Thai etc. increasing intensity over time as confidence builds. Here is the kicker - my first taijiquan sifu made me spar different styles every class and taught us a bit of boxing, judo, shaolin style boxing etc so we could deal with them better, most taijiquan schools don't so the combat tradition is broken. An authentic taijiquan master will have a verifiable lineage and high level of skill that will seem magical to those that don't understand (it's not magical, it's movement is just so refined it looks like that), learn the principles of taijiquan (supreme ultimate fist) then go to a mma gym to learn the principles of actual combat. Here is a test for you to find a "master" ( of which I am not ) - if he claims he is a taijiquan master offer him your forearm, if without an almost imperceptible touch take your centre and balance (it should feel like marbles under your feet) he won't be able to teach the combat aspects, if he can't can't "pop" or bounce you with a small movement he won't be able to teach authentic taijiquan. However remember this, any movement is good for you so whether it's authentic martial taijiquan or arm waving slow stepping tai chi in the park it is good for you. 99% will never be in a situations where they will need authentic taijiquan skill anyway. Respect from a retired single dad on the Thai/Laos border.
So true. I have the honor of meeting several masters who by respect of the form and culture would not call themselves such. However the feeling of them taking you off balance to show you concepts and the internal realities, I will never ever forget. It was the weirdest feeling, but super inspiring for where one can go with the form.
I'm not sure most people get that from training Tai Chi, at least I didn't despite training for several years, including in China with some pretty good teacher's. I did get that from training Gymnastics though, which also gives you many other benefits like crazy strength.
@@HiroIndo16 nah, i'm no Taijiquan person, but let me tell you that even 25+ years aren't enough to master Judo, so as Taichi is another art that tries to use the opponent's momentum against them and also some strikes, i can actually see it taking a lot of time to actually "master" all of it. Now then, there are a lot of Judo techniques, i do not know how many are there for Taiji
I’m with ya one what you said around the 9 minute mark about people thinking Tai Chi is something else besides grappling. I’ve had so many people look at me in shock when they ask me to teach them and they find out Tai Chi is only 2 things. Grappling and hard work. Lots and lots of hard work.
I see taichi as a wrestling based art with some "dirty" close range strikes and some moves can make a lot of sense with a dagger. Today it has evolved as a physical and mental health art for people who are not able to do the harder ones.
I'm getting close to 70 and it's about all I can practice anymore. If I get in a fight at the nursing home, it's going to be a lot of slow moving and pushing anyway. Perfect.
Ramsey, early on I didn’t have much respect for your opinion but your channel and your perspective of martial arts has grown so much over the years, I’ve completely changed my opinion. Thank you for the channel brother.
Great video! I've always said that Tai Chi is the most practical martial art I've ever studied. It is definitely applicable to combat imo, but also so applicable to every day life in teaching your body to move through space and exert force efficiently and safely for your body. As most of us don't fight daily, that is much more useful for pushing things, lifting things, opening and closing things, etc. As far as teachers, I believe William C.C. Chen is still alive and teaching in NYC. I did not study from him directly but some of his students and it was an awesome experience.
This is a great perspective coach. No one regains Tai Chi's combat applications like you do. Let's hope combat-effective Tai Chi grappling becomes more popular over time. That's the best way to preserve its history P.s. Tanglang 螳螂 is mantis, zhanglang 蟑螂 is cockroach ;)
I know a tai chi instructor who is also a yoga instructor, he took up BJJ and got his purple belt really quickly (from a uk based adcc competitor), it wasn't just the flexibility but also like you mentioned before in another video movement unlocking those movements had been hardwired into his brain/body so from standing he was working on speed and detail.
If the author of the question sees this, I went through the same questioning as you and went through different kung fu and taiji and modern combat teachings including a few years of full-time training. Here are my two cents: Check out the video 'Introduciton to authentic Taiji' on the Tri-Essence Martial Arts channel. You will find there a down to earth introduction from someone who has actual fighting skill, has insight into chinese culture, and has met many masters of the internal martial arts and devoted most of his life to it. Additionally check out the channel Ziran Men: another of the internal Chinese martial arts (neijiaquan) which is the system I ended up training currently after extensive research. The good teachers are out there but really rare and hard to find, don't go for a preference of style go for a good teacher. Ask them to demonstrate, if they can't do much they won't guide you very far. You don't really have a reason to trust me on this, but don't reverse engineer the forms, don't learn forms on the internet, don't even do forms. Taiji is something else, it is specific mechanics and conditioning, not a set of moves.
Ramsey, Matt’s (long!) lifetime martial artist dad here. Still study including on YT to refine my art and to adapt it to getting older. Yours is one of just a small handful of channels that are always useful and always interesting. If you haven’t discovered Chadi check out his amazing historical martial arts videos collection. I knew a direct student of Professor Cheng and I have experienced how powerful and subtle true tai chi is. All the best to you. Praying for you and the dicey situation where you are. Just for a laugh, you are probably the Stephon Marbury (“Starbury”) of martial arts.
Taiji has just as much striking as it does grappling. Many more people focus on the grappling side, but there are still very good teachers out there who teach the striking.
I like how Ramsey shows his true respect for Tai chi because he knows from experience what it really is for, there is combat with proper breathing (the "Chi" part). He's explained so much and respects those who enjoying the forms because now he can play with them to see how they can be applied in combat. Hope to see Ramsey talk about Bajiquan, the eight extremities fist and known as the art of the bodyguard.
The “chi” part of tai chi is a confusing spelling error thanks to the antiquated Wade Giles romanization of Mandarin. It’s not really tai chi, it’s taiji 太极 (not 太气）
Thanks for the fair comments on the sad state of Taijiquan as it is commonly practised nowadays and how the art actually has lots to offer to close combat. Sharing my thoughts as a Taijiquan practitioner, started from back before I did Judo and Kudo MMA, and also as a native Chinese speaker who reads the classic texts. There are 3 components to Taijiquan: (1) The forms, techniques and movements which people usually see as what they believe is Taijiquan. As Ramsey said, lots of valuable reference materials for grappling (unbalancing, throws, standing joint locks, etc.) as well as striking and footwork. They really came to life for me after I trained in Judo and later Korindo Aikido. (2) The biomechanical principles and methodology. Most people, even amongst Taijiquan practitioners, don't know much about this and in many cases frankly got it wrong. For example, the popular modern teaching of constantly relaxing is not found in the old Taijiquan classic texts. No, it has to do with using connective tissues to get the joints into specific alignments and rotations, kinetic linking, breathing in specific ways and often holding in air and compress it with the diaphragm and other muscles to manipulate intra-abdominal pressure, manipulating other fluid pressure in the torso and limbs and basically utilising the body as a hydraulic drive system. (3) The strategic, tactical and philosophical aspect. At its core is the concept of taiji, which in classical Chinese philosophy means unity or "oneness". (Yes, the characters separately mean "grand extreme" - well, what is bigger than the ultimate oneness that we call the universe?) Taijiquan's combative approach is based on integrating opposing things, not separating the whole into yin and yang. The main one is enabling and controlling the interaction between force/momentum/velocity in three dimensions and the dimensionless pressure in the body. Taijiquan in its purest form does not like evading or parrying an incoming attack. Instead it prefers to intercept it and thereby "merging with" its force and repelling it, not with an opposing force but with fluid pressure, hence with the efficiency you'd expect from a hydraulic drive system.
So I was blessed to have studied under a tai chi instructor that was one of the original students of the Wu Tan academy from Taiwan. He would have us stand in posture for upwards to 20 minutes. Let me tell you if you are not used to that after about a minute and you are done. Having a black belt in judo I found that after just a month of this my grappling game was elevated x . Talk about rooted! So tai chi, if not practiced as a whole ie with weapons sparring and push hands ( resistance training) it ain't taichi. 🙏Thank you Dewey for all your passion for the truth within the martial community.
My uncle has been doing various martial arts since the early 70s. Started off in Karate he’s a black belt. Did Wushu for awhile. But he has been doing Tai Chi for 40 years. He says it is by far its the best style he has learned. My uncle would go all over the states to exhibition and competitions. But he did always tell me you better learn how to fight on the ground though. When he would train me we would just wear sweat pants and a tee shirt. He showed me things he thought were useful out of all the styles he learned. But we would always do Tai chi exercises and kata. Then we would lightly spare what he showed me. I was 11when I stated and he was in his late 30s. Even now he is in way better shape than most 20 year olds and he’s in his late 60s.
I followed a similar path. I spent many years studying hard fighting. After about 15 years, I stated in on Tai-Chi. There was little by way of 'technique' in it that was applicable to the combatives I had previously used (at least not where I trained), but there were some very subtle 'principles' which I got to practice and focus on. It was after many years of such Tai-Chi that I unfortunately found myself in a few situations in which I had to apply my martial arts. Interestingly, each time it was the time I had spent in Tai-Chi that did the job. It was the principles I had 'mastered' in Tai-Chi that swayed the day.
It seems the founders of tai chi were also seasoned fighters or bladesmen with high fight IQs who fazed into tai chi, The use of most soft combat systems, BJJ being an exception, require a good fight IQ in order to understand how to realistically apply them with combat force and effectiveness.
I would love to see Coach Ramsey one day do HEMA. I think he would absolutely dominate everyone! Love from a fellow MMA, HEMA and medieval enthusiast, cheers!
I dunno if that's in his wheelhouse, but it'd be cool! I strongly recommend you check out his video on sword and shield fighting though. He's got like one or two videos demonstrating how sword/shield fighting have essentially the same concepts as barehanded fighting.
Fun fact... one of BJJ Legend Marcelo Garcia's best students is Josh Waitzkin (former child prodigy in Chess), Josh is a fantastic Taiji Push Hands champion, as well as being a phenomenal BJJ player. His style is "William C.C. Chen" style. Jan Lucanus is a Taiji student of Josh and has a youtube channel where he shows fantastic takedown defense and control using his Taiji vs BJJ and Judo/MMA competitors.
Wetting my pants for the HEMA name-drop! I'm a HEMAist and I've studied MMA for decades now, and I love when there's crossover and mutual respect between the two arts. Also, just wanted to say that I appreciate your passionate syncretism. I love the context you give to traditional Asian martial arts that illuminates why they are the stylized forms they are and the ways in which they tie into real combat arts. Clearly the folks who practiced these arts in the past didn't set out with the intention to make them bullshido, and it's awesome to deconstruct and recontextualize their intended original purpose. Love your channel, my friend. Cheers!
As someone who trained for years in a traditional kung fu school (mostly Yang style Tai Chi and Northern Praying Mantis) I can say that I agree pretty much 100% with what you've said. There were some people in our school who could actually use Tai Chi for fighting but all of them, no exception whatsoever, had had a lot of experience in combat sports such as MMA, boxing, wrestling, etc. Most of the other students (myself included) were pretty unathletic and would, without a doubt, get destroyed in anything close to a real fight. And this was not a McDojo but a traditional school with a qualified teacher. Thing is, most people who decide to pick up Tai Chi these days are not interested in fighting but instead they do it for health, longevity, spiritual reasons, etc. And while the mysticism of Tai Chi might be a delusion, the health&longevity aspect can be real - our Sifu was already in his late 60s but could still do full splits and head kicks, was strong as hell, and in great shape overall.
You changed my view of fighters, thank you. Your the only one I follow. Not because of your fighting ability, but rather because of your authenticity and work ethic. Thank you for your example.
Great video. Thank you! I teach Chen taiji in USA. It always seemed weird to me that forms are generally taught without applications. At the foundation of taiji are the six harmonies which includes intention leading your energy. How can a student learn a movement in a form with out applications so they have intention when they practice? Some teachers believe applications should not be taught until students are proficient in form. I disagree. How can a student become proficient in form if they have no intention behind it?
Taiji doesn't really mean "the highest form of combat" at all. The "Taiji" of Taijiquan is a reference to the cosmological principle of an absolute state where space and time expand to their maximum extent as opposed to the "Wuji", or void, that precedes it. The state of Taiji ultimately collapses to relativity and infinite change (yin-yang [light-dark, up-down, left-right] and wuxing [five element rotations]) respectively, creating the reality as we experience it. Taijiquan is only named after this principle. This is also a technical description of Taijiquan, since it teaches one to expand their posture "internally" to the six direction, extending the spine simultaneously up and down and opening and stretching the joints of the limbs. This kind of body has no weak angles and can be dictated and guided by the movement of one's center of gravity, ie. dantian. That's why standing post training and the _long_ solo form are so emphasized in the practice: you can only do postural adjustment via solo work.
The name taijiquan was first given to Yang Luchan's boxing (previously known as cotton fist/Yang family fist) by a poet in the Qing court because his boxing was like a physical expression of the Taoist concept of taiji.
Yes that is right, I'm not sure why a video being critical of this excellent system of martial art has been posted by someone who doesn't even know what the name means. Very odd and rather arrogant.
@@TheRetroman68 the problem is few people have the authentic transmission of taijiquan and even less are able to manifest the principles under the stress combat because lineages have been broken over the last 100 yrs. Yang taijiquan has not produced any real fighters that live up to the reputation of supreme ultimate fist since Yang Shao Hao (his younger brother Yang Cheng Fu was not interested in fighting and most Yang style taiji today comes down from him) and his uncle Yang Ban Hao. Chen(if you include Chen as taiji) hasnt produced a real fighter that takes challenges since Chen Fa Ke and I don't think Sun style has produced a serious fighter since its founder Sun Lutang.
I'm not great at fighting by any stretch of the imagination--not against a real fighter, anyway (I'd get absolutely crushed by a real fighter). Most bullies aren't real fighters, so they usually just back down when I stand my ground and show I'm willing to defend myself. But I've loved Taijiquan ever since I got interested in martial arts as a kid, even though it didn't make a lot of sense to me as a combat art the way it was being taught (other than improving my balance and coordination). It wasn't until I learned a few grappling techniques when I was older that some of the Taijiquan forms made more sense to me. I had a couple of "Oh, that's how it's supposed to work," moments. I love that you've done a few videos on the topic--it feels a bit like vindication. Lol!
Hello everyone, I'd like to say I really appreciate your videos they have brought me joy and calm through these tough times and also push me to keep working on stuff even when I have set backs. The other thing is after watching this video and going to the gym I think I had one of those lightbulb moments. I was shadow boxing between sets and was nearing the end when I tried incorporating the punch kata from taekwondo from a jab and my cross felt more crisp, faster, and a bit more powerful and then it hit me that I think you had a video on this, gabriel varga had one, sylvie von Douglass of the muai thai library, and a few others talk about not just throwing the punch out but the retraction is also important and I tried to remember that and practice it but it never hit me at to other reasons why other that defense until watching this video and trying it with a new thought process. Thank you again, your videos are much appreciated. Sorry for the long comment I was just kungfu panda excited after getting my light bulb moment lol.
The way I practice my Tai Chi is that I don't think of it as practicing a "technique", it's practicing a movement. Techniques can be used at the wrong time, but movements are different. When do you use that movement? You use it when you do it, movement usually doesn't require a lot of planning. It's easy to get distracted with technique and doing them "right" or proper. But an actual fight is so mobile and chaotic, you can only REALLY practice moving in that mobile/chaotic environment. So when you move in that way, you've practiced moving in that way from Tai Chi, so your movement is efficient and you're not mentally noting that your technique is terribly wrong. That is what Martial Arts is about. Being Artistic in your Martial movements. Any movement you make, as a martial artist, is part of your art. Tai Chi helps me see every movement as a technique as opposed to "Footwork is required for Positioning which is required for proper Technique". It's challenging to even try to describe the perspective in which Tai Chi has it's most value. If you were to ask me "should I learn Tai Chi so I can fight", my answer would be "heck no". However, if I knew you practiced fighting or any martial art, I would likely recommend learning Tai Chi. It is a supplement that quickly takes its place as the implement as soon as the practitioner realizes it. I hope that makes sense. Thanks for your content Ramsey, I learn a lot from you.
Description like from some anime episode ...at the moment when someone knocks you to the ground and starts choking your joints, you need to know exactly what technique is attacking you, otherwise you won't do anything
@@TH-camChillZone I agree with you in essence, you do need to know how to render an attack ineffective. However, you do not need to disassemble every detail of a technique to render it ineffective, you only need to know which smaller movements disassemble certain parts of the technique. This is kind of why Tai Chi is so difficult to really explain why it works so well, definitions of words get in the way, of it relies on abstract application to a certain degree. That's really where people get turned off as they think that immediately means it's woo woo.
Most of the Bodyguards and Escorts that served the Emperors Practiced Shuai Jiao, Bagua(Yin Fu), Xinyi and Tai Chi. It's great to see the research on the effectiveness of what's hidden in the form or failed to be properly taught.
I do Kyokushin, judo and muay thai. Would love it if you made some videos on applying some of the kyokushin kata. While i feel that doing kata has helped me develop more control, snap and body sensitivity when it comes to striking, i often feel kind of confused as to what the purpose of some of the movements are.
I do Okinawan Karate and I know exactly what you mean. I've found, after years of looking for answers, that a good rule of thumb is, if it doesn't seem to make sense, it's probably a grappling move.
@@varanid9 yeah, i was often confused by many of the circular, flowing techniques of goju style kata (Sanchin, tensho etc.) but find that they tend to be some kind of pummeling, hand fighting or clinching. I love discovering the many different ways the same techniques can be applied.
I think the issue with Karate kata is that they've been so changed from the original form (though Kyokushin isn't as bad as Shotokan in that regard), that working out exactly what the movements correspond to is very difficult. Especially because you might already be training some of the Bunkai in sparring without even realizing. It's also very difficult because all Karate has become far more striking focused, and the kata reflects this, the traditional style was more focused on grappling however. The majority of techniques are intended to be used around standup grappling, and the approach leading up to this, much like traditional Boxing. Fast linear strikes to the face and body, with some low kicks to damage mobility or target the lower abdomen, followed by clinching, where short powerful strikes like elbows, knees, or hook-/uppercut-like strikes with the hands (which do exist in Karate kata), attacks to the legs to try and off-balance your opponent, throws and sweeps after you gain an advantage in the clinch, and finishing strikes to the floored opponent, or even standing submissions. This is the focus of Karate, and so this is how you should approach the Kata. Usually they proceed along a simulated sequence of events where you strike, grapple, sweep/throw/trip, and finish in some way, but since these were adapted by people in recent generations with striking in mind, this isn't always obvious. Kyokushin at least fights heavily around clinch range, and you learn those lovely chest to chest high kicks, so I'd say have a look at the Kata you want to dissect, and think of it in terms of an open (i.e. limited or no rules) fight. Consider distance, where your hands are, and what the next action is likely to be. Then get a friend to spar with, ask them to attack you lightly, with takedowns and clinching allowed, and see where it goes. Kata will definitely help you with the basics of technique though, if only because you learn good hip movement, footwork, and relaxation/contraction timing. I had that even with Shotokan, which also gave me pretty good timing, but trying to work out what they actually meant is almost always more effort than it's worth unless you are someone like Iain Abernathy who makes money from doing so haha. I think as a rule of thumb though, circular movements are likely to be involved with grappling techniques, such as moving arms out of the way to establish a controlling position, stuffing a strike in the clinch, fighting for hooks or ties as Ramsey has said before, or being used to setup a throw (such as a morote or ippon seoi nage where the arms move around and under the arm or shoulder) or joint lock.
@@WilliamTheViking I did Uechi Ryo for a while, but it wasn't 'till I met a Southern Mantis boxing instructor that I understood what a lot of it was actually supposed to be.
I've practiced martial arts for 23 years now and I never saw Taijiquan for what it is. I never gave it any credibility for being useful in a fight so I never trained in it much less really analyzed the movements. Once you said that about grappling a light bulb went off. If you were to practice clench fighting by yourself a lot of it looks like Taijiquan. That just blows my mind. I cant believe I never made the connection. Thanks for the video!
I'm a Tai Chi Chuan practitioner, and phisiotherapist using Tai Chi with my patients. I agree with you Ramsey! In order to practice sparring I train with friends at a bare knuckle boxing gym for stiking and Judo and Ju Jutsu practitioners for grappling. To this day I can't think of a Tai Chi practitioner with whom I'd spar to mantain my (waning) fighting skills. When it comes to health it's EVEN WORSE!!! I actualy treated patients with Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, and neurological as well as orthopedic conditions, so I do know how to usee Tai Chi for health; I do not tell my patients I teach them Tai Chi! I just get them to do movements they are familiar, using the principles and leg stances of tai chi. most of famous "masters" i hear quoting papers found on pub med are basically using them for marketing their prodct. Very few can provide a living proof of someone recovering from a condition! I'd add to your advice to question any claims and ask for tangible proof!
A long time judo man once told me that he wished he had done Tai Chi instead of judo, so he would be free of injuries in his old age. That is something to think about. Yes, martial arts are very interesting and people should not get impairments through them. Cheers.
I mean wear and tear is unavoidable if you want to actually learn how to fight, because it requires significant athletic training. Tai Chi does not spar, it doesn't involve high impact athletic training, and it certainly doesn't involve conditioning. So yes, you aren't likely to get injured, but you also don't really gain anything practical either. Judo is a hard style, it involves being thrown on the floor, and throwing other's, thousands upon thousands of hours, and there isn't really anything you can do to avoid that. The same goes for wrestling or Sambo, it's pretty inevitable, just like striking puts serious stress on the knees and wrists. You can avoid injury and stay fit, but you will never get to a high level unless you push your body hard. It's an unfortunate aspect of life, our bodies degrade over time, and you can certainly do a lot to prevent or slow this, but it is somewhat inevitable. There's always a cost to anything we gain in life, you just need to decide on what's important to you.
“Tai Chi does not spar” FALSE. People who don’t know how to fight don’t spar. I still have injuries from sparring with a master of taiji and getting repeatedly thrown on stone tiles.
@@RamseyDewey My point was more to do with the fact that the wear and tear from athletic conditioning is unavoidable, as is the damage you build up from sparring, and any form of conditioning that somewhat resembles an actual fight is always going to be high impact. Judo is obviously far more high impact that Tai Chi as it is trained now, and I would argue that if you were training Tai Chi like the grappling/striking hybrid style it is, instead of just a form of choreography, then it would most definitely be high impact because you would be throwing, being thrown, and eating strikes, as you describe. I think that would definitely cause the same problems when you are older, and any real practice for any martial art is going to have the same consequences. I think you can definitely lessen them through softer training, but I mean there's some level of unavoidable stress on the body, right? If we both trained in different martial arts but we both hard sparred, did athletic conditioning, and fought, we'd both end up taking inevitable injuries over time, and there is much you can do to prevent damage to cartilage aside from trying to avoid impact. OP seemed like he was saying that Tai Chi is preferable to Judo due to the injuries, I was just trying to point out that most people don't train Tai Chi like they train Judo, and if it was, you'd see the same injuries occur. If you get me? I also mean in a general context, I believe you could state this and be true most of the time. Are there some people who practice Tai Chi and they do spar, doing more practical variations of push hands? Absolutely! But I think the vast majority of people who train Tai Chi do not do so in a way in which it would be practical, even if they do practice push hands. You could also make an argument that the only people who actually do spar with Tai Chi are those who've been trained in other martial arts (as the guy you talked about was) and then translated that knowledge to Tai Chi itself in order to find the practical elements, because, correct me if I'm wrong, but Tai Chi as a style was fundamentally changed during the Cultural Revolution, much like the vast majority of Chinese Martial Art's, and was saved largely because Mao found it very aesthetic, but it was saved in a non-practical form, with only the choreography of the forms being kept somewhat intact. The style is largely extinct as it was practiced before this as a result, and we certainly don't have guys like Yang Luchan running around anymore, and it's super uncommon to find someone that can actually grapple, let alone fight, with any of the Tai Chi styles. I mean I remember asking my Chen Tai Chi teacher about it when I lived in Hunan, and he just told me something along the lines of "if you want to fight go learn Sanda, but your body might not thank you for it". He was very strong for his age, and he had an extremely solid base with great balance, he probably could have been a very good grappler due to his years of training, we just never did the training like I had done in BJJ or Judo, it was all forms, and that's really my experience over years of Tai Chi, and I think it is most people's as a whole. If I could find a practical teacher, I'd of course love a few lesson's! I know people who practice Aikido, and who can fight, but can they fight because they know Aikido? Or can they use Aikido in a fight because they already knew how to fight. I've had the same to be true with Tai Chi as well, and the only people I've known from training the style in China who actually had any idea what to do had trained Sanda, in the UK this was generally even worse, but I did have a teacher who was a blackbelt in old-school Taekwondo (the power-era style, and he had several teeth missing as a result of eating head kicks), and he could fight (though he was getting older), but I'd say that was due to the years of experience he had sparring in TKD. You can make almost anything work if you have enough experience, but most people might not have that experience or knowledge to do so, and might not train in the same way. My experience with Tai Chi is probably different to your's, and I don't think many people are so fortunate as you to meet someone like that. It's pretty rare to find a really competent martial artist in these kind of styles.
I once got hurt by a taichi master who I had inadvertently offended due to a translation misunderstanding in China. He did something to my wrist, and it hasn't been 100% since. That was about 15 years ago.
We actually train tai chi with live sparring and grappling. Funnily enough our teacher is a black belt in Judo who then learned Kung fu and Tai Chi. So kind of seems like that is the way to go.
I read many years ago a quote by a Chinese Tai Chi Chuan master named Cheng Man Ching, ( traditional Yang style) who wrote he first studied Hsing I, then when he mastered this he studied Pa Kua, and finally Tai Chi Chuan. Because without the foundations of the others Tai Chi was beyond learning. I believe Tai Chi Chuan translates as Supreme Ultimate.
That's not Cheng Man Ching. He never learned Xing Yi Quan nor Bagua Zhang. You're talking about Sun Lu Tang. The grandmaster of the three internal martial arts.
I’ve possibly remembered the correct name of the founder of the Yang style in the west but misapplied the quote . The principle still applies though and is my error in crediting his saying it when another did. @@KelGhu
I really liked the background of applications played in combat sport training and sparring. Showing you're more than your words. well played and well made.
I've had a heavily experienced Tai chi teacher. He's had a giant gut, invisible grappling powers and boy he controlled his striking since there was only one student as tall as him. That student could fight 3 guys at a time (gloves and all).
@@Off-Brand_Devin most of his grappling, which is pulling, pushing, locking and pins were done at angles where I couldn't force myself out of them. It made impression of invisible forces, where his body didn't exert strength to roll his students into pretzels.
This is so interesting to me, because I found your channel while researching for Tai Chi application. I'll throw a huge text wall here, but it's ok if you don't find this interesting. Now I'm not even a fighter and probably will never be, I'm an Aikido practitioner. But I've always been a thinker (I guess), I like to understand how things work and why they work. I only have 10 years of practice and a couple years ago I graduated Shodan which, as you know, it means I know the (basic) form. All this time I've only practiced Aikido for what it is, because I enjoy the logical thinking behind it and studying biomechanics, but since my graduation I've been getting tired of the same old practices. I noticed that even worse than putting aside pressure testing, most instructors are bound to the form. The practice is always about the movements included in the form with some variations and whatnot, but always the same form (and here I'm not criticizing my Sensei, which is quite good and I enjoy her teachings. She actually started in Kung Fu, although I don't know her style). Sometimes we even get to practice some variations that are hard to work even in a non pressure environment, mind you. So I started to question it. What's the deal here? Why we do this? Why this way? Are the techniques flawed? Are the teachings flawed? Then there was this day I was watching the Shang-Chi movie, where some peculiar martial arts movements were depicted and felt to me very reminiscent of the elder people's Tai Chi. And it got my attention not only due to the beautiful movements but also because I noticed a certain circular movement pattern and pushing of arms that would result in locks. I couldn't avoid to realize how similar that was from what I've been practicing all these years. Now I knew what I had to do and how to find back my interest for the art. So I started looking for information about Tai Chi application. Right at the beginning, I found this one channel of a guy who offers a lot of content related to Tai Chi and internal martial arts. There's a lot of "magician teachings" there, but there's this one video I found very interesting with Sifu Adam Hsu where he speaks about some practical use of Tai Chi and how, according to him, the true techniques are hidden in the form. The piece of information I found most interesting was that (from memory, so maybe not 100% accurate) "Chinese Kung FU is not about throwing fists, that's Kung Fu movie. Chinese Kung Fu don't let go of the arms, it's always keeping in contact". This made so much sense in my head. Looking into this, found a few more videos of Dr. Yang from YMAA about the same subject, which not only served to demonstrate how the arms are always in contact with the opponent but, to my surprise, I knew many of his movements from my own practices. Then suddenly I knew where those odd variations I've practiced came from and also the correct way to apply them, the correct movement to study. Moving on, I've been going deeper and deeper into Kung Fu, even if not a practitioner. I also consume lots of information regarding martial arts in general, from many content creators. Nowadays I'm studying Qin Na for the same reasons I initially looked into Tai Chi and my mind keep being blown away with all I've been learning. It's so great, such a good feeling. My point with all this is just to contrast with what Ramsey said about reverse engineering. It seems to me more and more that it's crucial for any martial artist, of any style or practice, to always have critical thinking and never limit themselves to a style. Always go deeper, always look around, always learn more. Anyway. I won't be sorry for my huge text wall because you teached not to be xD I'm grateful for your teachings. I love how I always come to your channel for the martial arts content and always leave with far more than it. Have a great day.
Its in interesting discussion to be had about this. I use to do Tai Chi, Kung Fu and San Da. I turned 20 and had a sort of mid life crises concerning the fact I never did martial arts. I gravitated towards a Shaolin school because of the energy it gave. It was fun but eventually I injured myself and had to stop after oh give or take 2 years. It would take around 10 to get a black belt at that school so I wasnt high in rank so take what I say with a grain of salt. With 20/20 hindsight I wanted to believe in the art yet there was a lingering doubt in my heart about it. You would do things and not understand why or what for. Mcdojos are rampant in the tradition MA community. This doesnt help if you have issues with imposter syndrome as well. Later after I got better I became a hema fencer because I was envious of not doing martial arts and fencing with longswords sounded awesome. I felt sort of safe doing it because I wasnt doing advanced calisthenics and gymnastics because alot of those techniques would agitate my back injury. My favorite treatises were Italian, mainly Fiore. It was Fiore that made everything click, it was almost like a plateau breaker. The grappling in Fiore rhymes Heavily with Tai Chi. The legend on the Fiore map helped me find where tai chi was in the territory even though it was a different tradition, region and era. Tai Chi and other eastern martial arts are REAL! It is merely A victim of its own success and modern happenstance like many other TMA's. what I mean by victim is this: -Tai Chi was out shadowed by itself. Its health benefits washed out its martial culture. Really its the same with other TMA's. The health benefits are important but it cant be stressed enough how it accidentally watered down the arts. -TMA's in general dont understand this key rule of thumb. TMA's in the east had THREE branches which were all important and needed in their own way. Those branches being Martial, Religious and Theater. In the modern era they have been fused together in this messed up Frankenstein and instead of synergizing and complementing each other they are parasitic to each other. These three branches are important in their own way and must be respected in their own context. This does not occur and now the house is divided. You are not allowed to separate them in their own context now. Dont think im picking on China either. This can be argued about other traditions. Sumo is actually a perfect example because it also has a internal conflict of all three of these branches. A sumo Yokozuna has to be the martial artist, a religious avatar of shinto warding evil spirits with salt and stomps yet is also being a theater performer with their matches then being a host at charities for their stables. They wear many hats, have many responsibilities, cannot do all of them at once, thus they feel under appreciated and overworked. This rhymes heavily with their Chinese counterparts. -Their living traditions overshadowed their written traditions. This may surprise people but actually they have a large source of treatises as well. They just arent really represented. There are some channels that discuss it. two examples being The Scholar-General 墨將點兵 and ChineseLongsword. Perhaps there are more on non English speaking channels? It seems like its not really mentioned at all. Living traditions are important. But the written tradition is just as important in my opinion. -Politics have derailed their art. and example being Xu Xiaodong pointing out clear issues in his mma community but being accused of being a traitor and get blacklisted from everything. They fail to understand the three branches of eastern martial arts. Xu is absolutely correct in his concerns. If people mistake the other two branches for the martial tradition it will only make their countries MA weaker yet they believe he is attacking tradition. He is merely trying to maintain its balance. But it appears its a cultural taboo for him to speak out. I have no problem being the "loud American" the east seems to like to hire to negate that issue. -They need to lay back on other miscellaneous issues. An example being meat eating. It would be hard for a lot of martial artists to compete if they ate a meatless diet. Perhaps they were fine in previous eras but now its a large handicap. It also needs to be socially acceptable for a martial artist to lose. It seems like they disown you if you fail which shouldnt be the case. failure is a great friend and teacher. They need to revolve these issues if they want to survive and thrive. On paper it should be easy for practitioners to separate into these categories but certain religious or theater type masters probably dont want to lose the status of the martial type masters. If it was socially acceptable for martial types to simply beat them in matches the issue would resolve itself but this is perceived as an attack on their country and religion.
Being able to remember/recall is a double edged sword - remembering training and mis-comprehension many years prior allows current learning to make sense. Rhee Taekwondo is a variant of Taekwondo but the discussion of blocks are strikes and kata dissection gives new light on other styles and practices. Thank you for your dissemination on what a martial art is. Practicing fencing it introduced me to the art of swordplay - each weapon has a style because of its design - a foil is not an effective slashing weapon, a sabre however is - each weapon requires knowledge and practice to be effective. For 'us' to be effective we need knowledge and practice - in all manner of things.
I've been doing taiji for a decade now. I can say that I really started understanding the form when I went to Sanda, Muay thai and wrestling. A lot of obscure movements made a lot more sense. And I believe now that you don't want to retro ingeneer the forms into fighting, but you actually want to learn techniques and sparr and then you'll find the meaning of the forms. And to have a global understanding of the form, you need to explore a lot of different techniques. Training mma, basically, will give substance to the taijiquan form. And a big secret is that the form becomes a like mind palace where you store and review your techniques. So for me each posture is like a folder with a bunch of different applications I learned in class. It also makes learning new techniques so much easier. I just have to refer the new technique to a posture that uses the same body mechanics.
Well said, Ramsey. I chuckled when you talked about people who wear jackets with the knot buttons, calling themselves “Shifu” because I made a similar point to someone yesterday. Rule of thumb for me in TCMA: the prettier the jacket and the more they talk about “energy”, the less they know.
In fact, scratch that, Peter. This is Ramsey’s comments section and we should comment on his video, not on each other. Feel free to critique me on my own channel. I respond to structured, reasoned arguments. All the best.
When comes to tai chi i recomend chanel of ian sinclair he knows how fight and also he knows tai chi to a high degree and he not only teaches meanings of a movement but he focuses more of fighting principles in those movements that are pretty realistic
Hey authentic Chen Style Taijiquan Coach here! Really great video, Taiji is really applicable as long as you actually practice live application. There are alot of loud fakes out there but there are hidden gems as well. You should look up famous Taiji masters. Like Yang Lu Chan was the creator of Yang Style Taiji. He learned Chen Style for 10 years + in Chen Village and travelled to Beijing and became known as Yang the Invincible. The guy who created Chen Style Taiji was a ming dynasty military officer, Chen Wang Ting cool stuff
Question: 1.Have you ever tried sparring two or more people at once? 2. If so, are there any unique strategies or concepts that you discovered to be effective? 3. Would you ever want to train with the express purpose of becoming better at fighting multiple attackers for a month or three?
Some tips, learned from experience: Mobility is EVERYTHING, avoid going to the ground, avoid wrestling if at all possible. Striking is your friend, in fact, insert the kobra kai mantra here. You need to take down one opponent as soon as you can, because once they are out of the fight, your wrestling and ground game comes back online. Be aware of obstacles and use both them, and your opponent to frame your other opponent. Try to escape if you can, any outnumbered unarmed fight is overwhelmingly against you unless you're big, really big, and your opponents aren't. Consider the value of taking hits you wouldn't normally take, to decisively land one of your own if you think it can stop your opponent. You cannot win unless you first secure an incapacitation.
Tai Chi Chuan is translated to Supreme Ultimate Fist. The name is not a boast that it is the best system of fighting, but rather that it is a fighting system based on the supreme ultimate philosophy.. I fully agree that historical European martial arts do not get the recognition they should.
Taijiquan practiononer of 24 years in Chen Man Ching style. Competitor and gold medalist in multiple competitions in form, fixed and moving push hands.. Taijiquan must be understood as the embodiment of the tao manifesting in a martial movement with the emphasis as an art. Taijiquan is not singularly a "grappling" technique - however, due to the philosophy it may be expressed as one when the concepts and philosophers are applied. Other than that, great video I enjoy your video. Cheers.
YMAA (Yang Martial Arts Association) has schools in various countrys teaching Combat Tai Chi Chuan, and yes, is mostly a grappling art with a few punchs and kicks in the middle.
Personally I think Taijiquan, specifically Chen Style Taijiquan, is a valid/practical fighting style. That being said, it is probably one of the more difficult styles to apply because of it's overall combat strategies
Depends on the lineage. Some of them actually don't have any martial content, so they import Judo and Sanda stuff and sell it as "Taiji". And people will buy into it, thinking: "Oh! It's all the same." A good thing for people to realize is to not confuse fame with skill - which is what most people do. I think people believe that there's some positive correlation between fame and skill, but I think that's wrong.
I couldn’t agree more! I’m a Taekwondo 4th dan and instructor, but only started to understand some of the shapes in the forms and their grappling applications when I started learning BJJ. It shouldn’t even be too surprising, given that most of the WTF Taekwondo pioneers were also black belts kn Judo. Thank you for a wonderful explanation, Sir!
Ramsey, My ontological (i.e., "Zen") teacher, Peter Ralston, was a student of Wong Chia Man (Wong Jack Man) and William CC Chen, among others, and was the first non-Asian to win the world full contact martial arts championship in China in 1978. He advised me, and others, that the primary reason that Taijiquan gained popularity was that "back in the day" it was a more effective way to kill. The result of the "Internal Training", back then, resulted in the ability to rupture internal organs. Apparently, back then, striking was the primary skill of the Art. Not trying to take any of the validity of what you're saying away, but just wanted to add this into the mix. Thank you for posting this.
You are amazing RD! I wish to make it one day to China and do some training with you. I have been practicing taijiquan for many years since 1996. I am not a master… I have met several great masters though who taught me lots of useful things in connection to the practice of taiji. I have never fought ‘taij way’ until I joined a combined martial arts club and realised how natural the grappling is for me and my likeness for it! It all makes complete sense to me and you are a great hint of the fine vinegar to my life-long mastering knowledge. Xie xie!
This was really interesting and informative, thanks. I don’t know where the person you were speaking with is located, but I think that William C.C. Chen’s taiji school in NY still puts the gloves on and spars, FWIW.
Thank you, Ramsey for this great story! I'm proud to practice Yang Family Taiji Quan with a direct disciple ot The Grandmaster Yang Jun -beautiful and powerful soft martial art! There is all takedowns from the freestyle wrestling, some knees and elbows from Muay Thai and even a gillotine and rear naked choke from BJJ,but with so less effort than the muay thai and wrestling moves i 've practiced before! ! Glad that finally a real MMA fighter and coach said the big truth! I hope many people in the martial arts and combat sports world see this video and understand the truth! Traditional chinese internal martial arts are the best! THANKS!
The guy who taught me tai chi and aikido is also a Warriors fan since the 60s, and so his teaching gets peppered not just with philosophy through the lens of Steph Curry, but with how my teacher watches games and sees this person doing a Ward Off Left from tai chi, that person moving though a Single Whip pose for a moment, and a lot of the entry and wrestler-shooting principles in aikido being demonstrated in how Steph shakes a defender or clears enough space to shoot around them. I find it inspiring and mention it here specifically because it feels like this same reverse-engineering process.
Ramsey, thank you so much for this video. I have been practicing Chinese Kung fu since very young age (I used to base in Hong Kong and my grandfather was a fighter, who practiced mostly mantis style and taijiquan, similar to the master you mentioned in the video) Since then I moved on to practice jiu-jitsu, Kali and a little bit of boxing. But deep down in my heart, Chinese Kung Fu had a special place. For quite a while I thought those are just for show and heartbroken on how people trashed it. However seeing this video, one day I will definitely go back to doing Chinese Kung Fu and make them "useful" as per say
Ramsey, All I know as far as Gung Fu, I trained it in MMA gyms, sparring, with high level fighters. Tested outdoors on the streets too. So, cause I understand what and how to apply these ancient systems, I enjoy listening to the truth you speak. Tai Chi like all TMA must be tested, against all styles and evolved or out to use!!! My friends were a good help because they were Muay Thai fighters, Kickboxing champions, MMA champions, and my family too. Good luck to anyone seeking to use Gung Fu. Gung Fu is nature, that's why I love it. MMA is a must tool to test any art.
The taekwondo form demonstrated around 18:45 is one that we did in class. Like the other forms we did, the purpose of any of it was never explained. The self defense portion of that class was more like krav maga or mma, but was explicitly separated from the traditional forms and moves. "One is for history and discipline, one is for utility." It drove me crazy that even my instructor, one of the heads of one of the largest organizations in the world, had no interest in or knowledge of the origins of combative taekwondo, seeing it as a relic. Ironically, his own instructor taught the South Korean military unarmed combat for a time. At least I got props for incorporating a ridgehand in sparring.
After decades of doing Chinese martial arts, I came to the conclusion that Tai Chi is a type of Shuai Chiao, with advanced mechanics and additional strategies.
While Chen Style Taiji has two forms (Yi Lu and Er Lu), all the other Taiji styles are really only a subset of Yi Lu and never inherited Er Lu. And, Er Lu, built on top of the foundation of Yi Lu, is the form that has a lot of striking, impact, hardness, jumping, lunging, etc... - which does not sound like "Tai Chi" at all. People may not even recognize this (a small section of Er Lu) as Taiji: th-cam.com/video/xNHwlJ66z0o/w-d-xo.html
This video is great! my favorite part is all of the movement that happens behind the talking! I assume you are doing various forms and showing how it would be used in real fighting? Breakdowns of what is happening right there would be very very popular! Thanks so much for the content!
Yes that is the “secret” of internal arts. It’s not about technique per se but about skills. Internal martial arts like taijiquan have core skills like rooting, holding structure, touch sensitivity ( listening , following), connecting, power release ( jing). When you have learned all of those to a certain degree and can use them in combat/sparring, then you will find most other opponents( without such knowledge or skills) can not really do much against you. The only problem is finding a teacher with that knowledge willing to instruct you. Even then I have had to “ reverse engineer” or adapt neijia skills to particular situations since none of my teachers taught me all the different aspects of practical use.
Can you talk more about the connections between capoeira and wrestling? I suspect that like tai chi, due to the method of transmission the fullness of the martial art is largely forgotten. It seems capoeira is well suited to allow someone to deliver big kicks or wrestle from a low center of gravity. Love your capoeira videos btw. Praying for Shanghai.
I mean, Capoeira itself has a few takedowns (many ways of doing the scissor takedown, a few sweeps, kicks meant for unbalancing) and the way they move just looks like it could help on a ground fighting scenario. Just like many old martial arts, Capoeira was meant to be a complete one, which means using grappling and hitting with any part of the body (and in any part of the body), so yeah, it probably did have wrestling. Just look at N'golo (the martial art that Capoeira comes from), their practitioners will actually grapple a lot!!! So yeah, Capoeira was always linked to grappling if that's what you mean by "wrestling"
Taijiquan is fundamentally a counter attacking style using low kicks, strikes, grappling and throwing techniques. Simply train with someone like Dan Docherty (full contact fighter) or one of his students.
I've never met Dan Docherty, but teachers I know generally have a high opinion of his fighting technique (though sometmies a low oinion of his manners). I remember when he was going round pissing off taiji players back in the 1980s, when he was doing a Xu Xiaodong - except that he actually was a taiji player.
@@RobinTurner Unfortunately he died last December, he was a great teacher. At times he was harsh and rude, with terrible manners, and at other times he was very generous. Once after he had polished off half a bottle of whiskey, he told me he was Billy no mates in the Tai Chi world 😃
@@liang3102 I'm sorry to hear that. He certainly was abrasive (one of my few ventures into martial arts writing was a response to Dan shooting his mouth off) but he did a great service to the British taijiquan community by making people get serious about applications, not to mention setting up the first national pushing hands competition.
For my first introduction to Tai Chi, a little old lady who, practicing for 30 years, had excellent posture, good reflexes, good stepping, and who never fell down. For martial application? Jiu-Jitsu gym. For crossing from Tai Chi theory to the beginning of martial application? Check out Ian Sinclair's channel. For the next step getting physical with Tai Chi? Check out Coach Jan Lucanus' channel, and the sports push hands scene (again this is mostly balance play and *very* sport oriented).
Interesting, not first time I have heard Tai Chi is a grappling system. But my question is why is Dim Mak and Chi na grabbing and tearing included in this system of grappling?
Taijiquan is actually both striking and standup grappling, but the striking aspect is a dying component to the degree that people stereotypically associate it with just grappling. Part of this is probably also because people confuse Tuishou competitions to be the same thing as taijiquan - which they're not by any stretch of the imagination. Dim Mak or diǎnxué has to do with pressing certain points on the body - often to inflict pain or discomfort, but if you're thinking like the scene in Kill Bill where you make someone's heart explode, then, that's fiction. How would you even train for that? A new practice partner per successful attempt? As for Qinna... doesn't BJJ, Judo, Aikido, etc... all have small joint manipulation stuff in their curriculum? Why would it be weird for Taijiquan to have their own arsenal of it too?
@@ShadowParalyzer I think it’s the opposite!! Most people believe TC to be a striking art and as stated in this video, Movies and Arcade games promote that image. Striking arts are so much more popular because practitioners of martial arts tend to want to train at a safe distance, they don’t want to get up close and hug another sweaty training partner.
@@ShadowParalyzer GJJ, Judo, and most wrestling systems do not have sealing the vein, pressure point striking and other things stated that Chinese arts have. Chi Na as far as I have been taught is seizing the pressure points, muscles, flesh and not just small joint manipulation. Again, Instead of these lovely slim tall women practicing the forms I constantly see online I’d like to see APPLICATIONS being shown followed by sparring. I’m yet to be pointed in the direction of a Master who’s Instagram, TH-cam channel, FB etc bulging with this content!! Show me, convince me and I’m open to train in it. One of the few Masters I’ve heard has the real stuff is John Ding in the U.K. is he willing to share the “Real Stuff” is another matter as still this BS secrecy around Chinese martial arts. That’s why they practical fighting arts are dying out and GJJ/Bjj who are happy to share and spread their system are probably the number one martial art system practiced these days.
@@adam28171 The smartass side of me wants to point out that BJJ’s rear naked choke is technically all about crushing the side arteries on the side of the neck, right? That sounds like sealing the veins to me. (I’m joking here.) I have never heard of Qinna having anything to do with trying to seal someone’s veins. Lovely women practicing form, you say? Sounds like, you didn’t saw any Taijiquan then. What you saw is called Performance Wushu. Those are performance arts, not martial arts. They care about aesthetics. Like… if you go to the International Wushu Federation’s rules… you LITERALLY get deducted points for NOT having music… or having vocal in your music as you do the form. Like… those are not traditional martial arts. Now, here is a video of applications, but bear in mind that these applications is referring to one very specific drill. So, this is, by no stretch of the imagination, representative of the martial art: th-cam.com/video/VJzb8uMEeUw/w-d-xo.html Real or not, honestly, I don’t recommend others to learn Taijiquan. I have zero faith that they will find it.
@@adam28171 Interesting! That's new to me that people have thought it's a striking focused art. This video seems to think otherwise. You're right in the sense that Taijiquan don't like being at hugging-distance with an opponent.... especially that if that opponent is much bigger and heavier than you. So they do tend to operate at a Judo-like range - as opposed to like College Wrestling range where they're just hugging each other with their heads pressed up against each other.
Agreed! As a tai chi and qi gong instructor I practice aiming to heal and empower my whole self. I would say that the main benefit from tai chi is to train the body to move with both power and relaxation. I can't assure tai chi will teach you how to fight; nonetehless, it will teach you how to balance and direct your body/mind. It is also a very good excercise for overall fitness and well-being.
I've always seen older martial arts as clinch based judo-wrestling type arts. Because taichi forms always looks like cheeky clinch techniques that are amazing for the clinch. They also feel dirty to use because you're just basically manipulating someone's balance with your balance which is literally judo and wrestling, i hope taiji gets the recognition as a legitimate art.
I agree that the easiest application to understand for self-defense purposes is grappling, and you're absolutely correct about that, but I disagree that it is only grappling. The same principles apply to striking. It goes as deep as you want it to go.
Dude, you are among the best. You are so insightful and very well spoken. The only thing wrong is that you do not study Daito Ryu. Hey man, I'm joking. Love your stuff. I never knew anyone that Tai Chi had wrestling moves are that it was basically wrestling. Thanks a million.
I've said it before, things changed a lot over the past 20-30 years in martial arts schools and mostly not for the better. When I started practicing wushu (in the early 90s) things like tai chi and various punching forms (a.k.a. "shadow boxing") were an integral part of it just as much as sparring, we didn't thought of them separately like today. The proportions (of time invested into each of these during a training session) varied depending on individual goals and skill level, but until much more recently I didn't even thought possible to learn just forms for example, that made no sense to me. That said, there is a specific application of non-combat forms practice derived from traditional Chinese martial arts that I've seen developing and I wholeheartedly support: medical rehabilitation. Here in Bucharest handful of dedicated wushu masters worked for years together with physical therapists and medical doctors to use some specific whushu forms (including tai chi) for improving/accelerating physical rehabilitation of patients recovering from major trauma and more recently cerebral stroke and cardiac infarction as well. It's an ongoing work with great results from the medical standpoint and similar studies done elsewhere proved equally successful (according to the published results). But this has little to do with actual martial arts training and I despise people who tarnish the reputation of wushu by splitting it into small worthless pieces.
I've supplemented my Karate with what I was told was Tai chi over 20 years, and it's helped me maintain flexibility as I've aged and taught me the value of doing movements so slowly that you are consciously aware of what each muscle is doing and how each part of the body is aligned. For fighting it teaches you to listen to what an opponent is doing, which helps with timing. But in terms of actually applying Tai chi techniques......in a real fist fight. Not a chance. It's great healthy exercise for older folks but otherwise it's not a system of fighting. So worthwhile, as long as you're honest about what it is and what it's not. Guess what the Master you met was teaching was more authentic Tai Chi, that is useful, but it isn't distinct from grappling. Unless someone's training with that guy, I doubt it would be useful as anything but a supplemental training - and definitely not a replacement for actual grappling/striking.
My grandmother was starting to feel a bit stiff and started doing Tai Chi in her early 70s. She's now 95 yers old and she still attends class 3 times a week. She also walks to her classes there and back, and socialises with most of the other students. I'm absolutely convinced that her health, fluidity of movements, and halted physical decrepitude is largely down to the practice of Tai Chi.
Beautiful, I hope you are still encouraging her to attend the classes.✌️
Based granny. 🙏
Cool.
It is INSANELY difficult to unbalance anyone significantly trained in Tai Chi. Their root is amazing.
It's called a double leg.
Who wants to unbalance them. Just a one two will do it and that will unbalance them anyway
I agree. I trained with a guy who had trained Chen Tai Chi with Ren Guan Yi......he trained Silat with me and we weren't much different in weight but there was an arm wrap takedown attempt I tried while he had loose arms and relaxed body and I couldn't unbalance him at all. I couldn't even make his weight shift to his heels or stumble. When I did the takedown on me all he did was shook his waist and I flew around his body like a little kid. His striking techniques felt like getting hit with a delayed battering ram........like one.....TWO! Initial hit then huge percussive thud/reverberation
Maybe significantly skilled is a better word, but I know what you mean. Isn't it best to train with a significantly trained partner. How else to get better?
@@neutrino78x is he your sifu? How many other masters have you trained with?
Finally SOMEONE SAID IT!I learned Hung Gar Kung Fu and Tai Chi as one of my first serious arts and frankly couldnt really make heads or tails of it. I have now been learning Muay Thai and wrestling for the past two years and EVERYTHING from those arts started to click. Tai Chi has so much potential, lost be hind shit teachers and mysticism. Taichi is a great art to learn as a secondary or tertiary art and i think people really need to let go of it being trash.
Tai chi for the life win !
Showcase it, and they will learn
WHERE did you learn Hung Gar?
@@teamfingahs4907 a school on Long Island in New York!
@@neutrino78x where is Tai chi fighter?
Hung gar fighter?
No fighter wants to practice it as the only martial art to bring his bread to the table, and we all see it, ok.
Ramsey! Context is for "Kings," as this makes shadow boxing, shadow wrestling, etc. meaningful. Thank you for the lesson. Pure respect.
Context is King!
Ramsey, I would LOVE more breakdowns of specific tai chi movements as true fighting techniques. Please do more videos on this!
Lets get heavy on the real tai chi , theres amazing chen and yang style masters, come on bring it let's see a tai chi master schooling mma dongs! Please! 🤙
Check out Ken Gullette if you want some fighting applications of tai chi!
Those who know generally don’t tell and if they do desire to tell their usually just getting familiar with the internet.
@@neutrino78x actually there are a lot of moves in especially traditional martial arts that simply are not effective for what they're trying to achieve. Doesn't detract from the good moves, but when the focus of an art shifts from application to preservation, it's only logical that overall functionality will suffer.
Also why ask a Chinese American guy? By your logic shouldn't we only consult Chinese masters? People foreign to the original culture can become experts at a martial art, you know. If that weren't the case, taekwondo, muay thai, judo, etc. would be relegated to their home countries and BJJ simply wouldn't exist.
Hello Ramsey. I have found that a MMA fight is fought by people that train eight hours a day. That is why they are tough. It's not that one style is better than another. Tai chi is effective if you train daily and understand how and when to apply it. I practise Kung Fu, Tai chi and recently chin na. I have a daughter and a job. I no longer want to fight, but still enjoy practise. I was watching some MMA jiu jitsu. I saw a lot of what I practise with slight variations. As humans we have a limited range of movements. It's about the right move at the right time. Like practical chess. I have just subscribed to your channel. Thank you for appreciating tradition.
Hot take: even as it is taught now, Tai chi IS one of the best martial arts ever because it has been proven extremely effective.
Effective against sedentarism that is. As sad as it is that the meaning and practical applications of the art have been misunderstood, it is a net positive that thousands of older people practice the forms because it keeps them active. And that's worth more than even the best trained punching technique for the vast majority of people.
It helps millions win the fight against heart disease and diabetes.
@E The point of the video is that, when properly practiced and trained, Tai chi is a great practical martial art.
My take is that even poorly taught larping is great because of the health benefits.
I remember a capoeira mestre getting asked (as usual) whether capoeira was any good for self defence: "First of all, let's be realistic - most of us are going to die in hospital with tubes stikcing out of us."
Came here to say this
It is so effective that a university in TEXAS has a coach making people practice it so they could hit high speed better.
Extremely well said!
I started my martial art career doing tai chi chuan and my first teacher, the first lesson, has been very very honest. He went: "Traditionally Tai Chi was a secret discipline, taught to family members and to people who were already black belts (whatever it meant at that time) in an 'external martial art'. Nowadays...well...let's start the lesson".
It took me two decades of martial arts with contact and your video where you grab the foot of the opponent and do the circular movement, to understand what my first teacher meant.
Thanks!
Real Tai Chi is an internal martial art that is deadly. Now think about it, why would someone teach a lot of people how to go around killing other people? They wouldn't, and didn't... they just taught a fake version of it so they got PAID for classes. To learn real Tai Chi you have to do years of meditation (Nei Gong) along with years or decades of hard wrestling or boxing and fighting along with years of the kata (Tai Chi forms.) Most masters I've seen went from the HARD martial arts then to the SOFT martial arts... because you have to build up tremendous power to be soft. Being soft takes HARD... it's the Yin/Yang... It won't work unless your teacher is a real master and willing to teach you the real secrets that could allow you to kill him. Traditionally real martial arts masters never taught the real things just out of self preservation. And the internal aspect is the hardest part of the whole thing and borders on spiritual possession, that's why I stopped training martial arts.
This two part series explains more, but not everything, since they don't teach everything to everyone, like I said. The master show in in this video is just a student but everyone sees him as a master which he even says he is not when he says he doesn't know how it works.
th-cam.com/video/WGEP5X78G1w/w-d-xo.html
It is not magic
@@jacobmansfield-go9fz of course it's not...once you know how it works.
As someone that taught traditional Tai Chi (Yang style) and Kung Fu (Choy Li Fut) for five years, I LOVE this video and I'm so happy someone is acknowledging that Tai Chi is a grappling style.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Choy Li Fut in a video, too.
I'll tell you what my CLF instructor told me when I asked about how CLF should look in application. He said, "Watch Marvin Hagler". I can be a little more specific than that. Watch Marvin Hagler's footwork and turn all those big arm circles in the form into smaller, tighter circles. The big circles teach the full range of motion and force good body mechanics, but are not application. This YT channel has great breakdowns of mechanics. I'd also say watch Ramon Dekkers as well. Slight lateral shifts open holes in the opponent's defense.
th-cam.com/video/xnLMUy2ifFs/w-d-xo.html
I have to say, this was great, because I saw that previous video about the 80-year-old person, and that he was an expert grappler, and I think about that more and more as I get more grappling experience. And no joke, the other day one of the white belts straight-up said "sometimes it looks like you're doing kung fu", or something like that.
Mind blown. Thanks for the great videos!
This is one of the things I appreciated about my Soo Bahk Do instructors. The Kyo Sa (head instructor) was a patrol officer in a violent area for ten-years and used his art in the real-world and the Sa Bom (Master instructor, dojang owner) was a US ranked fighter in the '80s. We learned the applications for everything as we were learning. For example, you know that thing that looks like you're two-hand punching (or throwing a hyoducken) someone with your rear hand over your head, punching to their face, and your lead hand punching their chest? Wrong application. It's a high block and an upper cut (or shovel jab), thrown at the same time. That block can be hard style like blocking a round kick in kickboxing or it can be soft style and redirect into a grab, while the strike disrupts their reaction for a moment... and maybe KO's them if you're fortunate. The important thing to remember is that, in practical application, you won't perform this the same way you do while it's in the hyung (kata). It has to be free-sparred and trained to work in practical application before you can use it. We can see this practical application in Muay Thai's long guard. The lead-hand blocks an incoming rear-hand from your opponent and you respond with a cross. You can clinch from that block or you can clear. Same same, different arts.
Thank you for the explanation.
No one uses long guard to throw a cross in Muay Thai, and certainly not at the same time, it would be long guard, then cross. Link a single video where someone uses a long guard and punches at the same time please.
@@cheeks7050 I would also like to see the presentations to understand better
Can you record presentations?
I think Ramsey will be happy to show on his channel after all, we're all here to learn something new
Cockroach kung fu would be pretty awesome. They're really hard to kill.
LMAOOOO
Where can I learn 😂😂😂😂😂😂 ????
6:12 "Tang lang" (螳螂) means Praying Mantis in Mandarin, "Zhang Lang" (蟑螂) means cockroach in Mandarin, just to clear up the confusion.
Thanks for the vids coach, keep up the good work 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
My first introduction into martial arts was 7 years ago when I started learning tai chi from a friend who had studied it his whole life and had even spent some months at the Chen village in China. I’ve trained it ever since. Alongside it however, I devolved a deep passion for all martial arts and began practicing wing chun, Brazilian jiu jitsu, and baguazhang. In the begging, martial was vastly too complex for me to fathom in it’s entirety but I’ve come to learn that it is the absolute truth in life and that it applies in all contexts. That being said, Tai Chi has gifted me with not only its physical movements and flexibility, but if you take the time to dive into the true tradition of what Tai Chi is the wealth of information and perspective it has to offer is unparalleled in my eyes. It is the art of fighting without fighting and using the opponent to offset himself, not only physically but mentally and spiritually. A master is masterful regardless of his style, not because of what he knows, but how he knows it. There are many ways to plow a field but Tai Chi will teach you to plow it well, as efficiently as you can, with a smile on your face. And that is something I’ve carried through the door of every martial arts class I’ve had since. Thank you very much for your Videos Ramsey, blessings be with you, the people of China and the whole world. We are all one family. To anyone who actually read this, thank you sincerely and good luck on your journey. I would like nothing more for us all to hold hands at the top of the mountain.
I was with you until the last sentence, lol. How about a nod or a smile instead, on the top of the mountain?
Woah you also do Baguazhang!!
I agree with many things that you said but not about Taichi being unparalleled on the ways you described it. There are many arts that do or try to do exactly what you described, fighting without fighting, using their power against them, defeating them spirituallly and such, you are describing Aikido! Judo also tries to get into the same ground.
But yes, yes Taichi is awesome and it deserves better, many Chinese martial arts do (like Baguazhan and Bajiquan) but they are labeled as useless because of bad teachers and lost training methods (i think)
@@jestfullgremblim8002 you’re correct. It was a bit arrogant for me to put it that way. I believe what I meant was that it was the one branch of teachings that allowed me to see things clearly for the first time and so it is one I hold very dear. Thank you
@@shawnmorgan7834 Oh that's alright, pal. Taichi sure has a lot that people just don't see, it happens with many martial arts :'(
I taught taijiquan for years privately. People have serious misunderstandings about taijiquan. I told students if you want to fight in 6 mth go learn boxing or muay Thai but if you want to be able to defend yourself in your 80s ok, train with me. Students that had martial arts background grasp the combat aspect at beginner level first, however they focus on the form as shadow boxing (beginner level). Yes at beginner level there are grappling, striking ect contained in each posture but focusing on applications you won't get taiji and you will never be able to use "applications " under real chaotic combat. Each posture is to teach principles in power generation and is done internally, the posture shape helps you learn that principle and can then be tested for quality
etc. Taijiquan is a set of combat/power generating principles, fighting with taijiquan will not look like a Donny Yen movie it will look like fighting.
How do I know this? I lived as an inner door disciple with my sifu and Dai Sifu, and worked as a bouncer in Phuket bars (Southern Thailand).
Taiji works, few understand it, fewer have the authentic transmission and even less can identify the authentic from hand waving slow steppers.
I also recommend serious taijiquan boxing students after a couple of years start gently sparring with mma, muay Thai etc. increasing intensity over time as confidence builds. Here is the kicker - my first taijiquan sifu made me spar different styles every class and taught us a bit of boxing, judo, shaolin
style boxing etc so we could deal with them better, most taijiquan schools don't so the combat tradition is broken. An authentic taijiquan master will have a verifiable lineage and high level of skill that will seem magical to those that don't understand (it's not magical, it's movement is just so refined it looks like that), learn the principles of taijiquan (supreme ultimate fist) then go to a mma gym to learn the principles of actual combat.
Here is a test for you to find a "master" ( of which I am not ) - if he claims he is a taijiquan master offer him your forearm, if without an almost imperceptible touch take your centre and balance (it should feel like marbles under your feet) he won't be able to teach the combat aspects, if he can't can't "pop" or bounce you with a small movement he won't be able to teach authentic taijiquan.
However remember this, any movement is good for you so whether it's authentic martial taijiquan or arm waving slow stepping tai chi in the park it is good for you. 99% will never be in a situations where they will need authentic taijiquan skill anyway.
Respect from a retired single dad on the Thai/Laos border.
Random Tai Chi dad your words will not be forgotten ans will be annulled in a kung fu knowledge folder
@@ppp123asdf even better if the prospective student is song and has a slippery centre. Even better test of skill.
So true. I have the honor of meeting several masters who by respect of the form and culture would not call themselves such. However the feeling of them taking you off balance to show you concepts and the internal realities, I will never ever forget. It was the weirdest feeling, but super inspiring for where one can go with the form.
Taijiquan is a fantastic supplement to all those other arts you mention. Taiji teaches you how to make your waist strong and flexible.
I'm not sure most people get that from training Tai Chi, at least I didn't despite training for several years, including in China with some pretty good teacher's. I did get that from training Gymnastics though, which also gives you many other benefits like crazy strength.
It helps with everyday stuff too, like sinking into the ground when you trip over something.
@@AveSicarius I got 25+ years, still not even close to mastering it.
@@rolandotillit2867 sounds like you got bad teacher if you're learning 25+ years but never mastered it
@@HiroIndo16 nah, i'm no Taijiquan person, but let me tell you that even 25+ years aren't enough to master Judo, so as Taichi is another art that tries to use the opponent's momentum against them and also some strikes, i can actually see it taking a lot of time to actually "master" all of it. Now then, there are a lot of Judo techniques, i do not know how many are there for Taiji
I’m with ya one what you said around the 9 minute mark about people thinking Tai Chi is something else besides grappling. I’ve had so many people look at me in shock when they ask me to teach them and they find out Tai Chi is only 2 things. Grappling and hard work.
Lots and lots of hard work.
I see taichi as a wrestling based art with some "dirty" close range strikes and some moves can make a lot of sense with a dagger. Today it has evolved as a physical and mental health art for people who are not able to do the harder ones.
I'm getting close to 70 and it's about all I can practice anymore. If I get in a fight at the nursing home, it's going to be a lot of slow moving and pushing anyway. Perfect.
@@sweynforkbeard8857 Who knows,maybe in a emergency situation you can still concentrate the chi and deliver a deadly fingers strike to a weak spot.
@@clementfleury1913 Good idea, I will attack their oxygen hose. That stops them every time.
It is very wrestling based. When I first learned tai chi, it was heavily connected to shuai jiao(basically Chinese Wresling) for applications.
Dirty? Lol
Ramsey, early on I didn’t have much respect for your opinion but your channel and your perspective of martial arts has grown so much over the years, I’ve completely changed my opinion. Thank you for the channel brother.
Great video! I've always said that Tai Chi is the most practical martial art I've ever studied. It is definitely applicable to combat imo, but also so applicable to every day life in teaching your body to move through space and exert force efficiently and safely for your body. As most of us don't fight daily, that is much more useful for pushing things, lifting things, opening and closing things, etc. As far as teachers, I believe William C.C. Chen is still alive and teaching in NYC. I did not study from him directly but some of his students and it was an awesome experience.
This is a great perspective coach. No one regains Tai Chi's combat applications like you do. Let's hope combat-effective Tai Chi grappling becomes more popular over time. That's the best way to preserve its history
P.s. Tanglang 螳螂 is mantis, zhanglang 蟑螂 is cockroach ;)
I know a tai chi instructor who is also a yoga instructor, he took up BJJ and got his purple belt really quickly (from a uk based adcc competitor), it wasn't just the flexibility but also like you mentioned before in another video movement unlocking those movements had been hardwired into his brain/body so from standing he was working on speed and detail.
The sparring session in the background speaks volumes to your skill knowledge. Please keep doing what you’re doing and sharing these videos.
If the author of the question sees this, I went through the same questioning as you and went through different kung fu and taiji and modern combat teachings including a few years of full-time training.
Here are my two cents:
Check out the video 'Introduciton to authentic Taiji' on the Tri-Essence Martial Arts channel. You will find there a down to earth introduction from someone who has actual fighting skill, has insight into chinese culture, and has met many masters of the internal martial arts and devoted most of his life to it.
Additionally check out the channel Ziran Men: another of the internal Chinese martial arts (neijiaquan) which is the system I ended up training currently after extensive research.
The good teachers are out there but really rare and hard to find, don't go for a preference of style go for a good teacher. Ask them to demonstrate, if they can't do much they won't guide you very far.
You don't really have a reason to trust me on this, but don't reverse engineer the forms, don't learn forms on the internet, don't even do forms. Taiji is something else, it is specific mechanics and conditioning, not a set of moves.
Ramsey, Matt’s (long!) lifetime martial artist dad here. Still study including on YT to refine my art and to adapt it to getting older. Yours is one of just a small handful of channels that are always useful and always interesting.
If you haven’t discovered Chadi check out his amazing historical martial arts videos collection.
I knew a direct student of Professor Cheng and I have experienced how powerful and subtle true tai chi is.
All the best to you. Praying for you and the dicey situation where you are.
Just for a laugh, you are probably the Stephon Marbury (“Starbury”) of martial arts.
Taiji has just as much striking as it does grappling. Many more people focus on the grappling side, but there are still very good teachers out there who teach the striking.
The key point is that the striking is executed in conjunction with grappling.
Otherwise it's not a good striking system.
Grapple-boxing? @@BWater-yq3jx
I like how Ramsey shows his true respect for Tai chi because he knows from experience what it really is for, there is combat with proper breathing (the "Chi" part). He's explained so much and respects those who enjoying the forms because now he can play with them to see how they can be applied in combat.
Hope to see Ramsey talk about Bajiquan, the eight extremities fist and known as the art of the bodyguard.
The “chi” part of tai chi is a confusing spelling error thanks to the antiquated Wade Giles romanization of Mandarin. It’s not really tai chi, it’s taiji 太极 (not 太气）
@@RamseyDewey oh I see. Makes sense now. Thanks for that tidbit!🙂😁
Thanks for the fair comments on the sad state of Taijiquan as it is commonly practised nowadays and how the art actually has lots to offer to close combat. Sharing my thoughts as a Taijiquan practitioner, started from back before I did Judo and Kudo MMA, and also as a native Chinese speaker who reads the classic texts. There are 3 components to Taijiquan:
(1) The forms, techniques and movements which people usually see as what they believe is Taijiquan. As Ramsey said, lots of valuable reference materials for grappling (unbalancing, throws, standing joint locks, etc.) as well as striking and footwork. They really came to life for me after I trained in Judo and later Korindo Aikido.
(2) The biomechanical principles and methodology. Most people, even amongst Taijiquan practitioners, don't know much about this and in many cases frankly got it wrong. For example, the popular modern teaching of constantly relaxing is not found in the old Taijiquan classic texts. No, it has to do with using connective tissues to get the joints into specific alignments and rotations, kinetic linking, breathing in specific ways and often holding in air and compress it with the diaphragm and other muscles to manipulate intra-abdominal pressure, manipulating other fluid pressure in the torso and limbs and basically utilising the body as a hydraulic drive system.
(3) The strategic, tactical and philosophical aspect. At its core is the concept of taiji, which in classical Chinese philosophy means unity or "oneness". (Yes, the characters separately mean "grand extreme" - well, what is bigger than the ultimate oneness that we call the universe?) Taijiquan's combative approach is based on integrating opposing things, not separating the whole into yin and yang. The main one is enabling and controlling the interaction between force/momentum/velocity in three dimensions and the dimensionless pressure in the body. Taijiquan in its purest form does not like evading or parrying an incoming attack. Instead it prefers to intercept it and thereby "merging with" its force and repelling it, not with an opposing force but with fluid pressure, hence with the efficiency you'd expect from a hydraulic drive system.
So I was blessed to have studied under a tai chi instructor that was one of the original students of the Wu Tan academy from Taiwan. He would have us stand in posture for upwards to 20 minutes. Let me tell you if you are not used to that after about a minute and you are done. Having a black belt in judo I found that after just a month of this my grappling game was elevated x . Talk about rooted! So tai chi, if not practiced as a whole ie with weapons sparring and push hands ( resistance training) it ain't taichi. 🙏Thank you Dewey for all your passion for the truth within the martial community.
My uncle has been doing various martial arts since the early 70s. Started off in Karate he’s a black belt. Did Wushu for awhile. But he has been doing Tai Chi for 40 years. He says it is by far its the best style he has learned. My uncle would go all over the states to exhibition and competitions. But he did always tell me you better learn how to fight on the ground though. When he would train me we would just wear sweat pants and a tee shirt. He showed me things he thought were useful out of all the styles he learned. But we would always do Tai chi exercises and kata. Then we would lightly spare what he showed me. I was 11when I stated and he was in his late 30s. Even now he is in way better shape than most 20 year olds and he’s in his late 60s.
tanglang is mantis, zhanglang is roaches, love ur content man
I followed a similar path. I spent many years studying hard fighting. After about 15 years, I stated in on Tai-Chi. There was little by way of 'technique' in it that was applicable to the combatives I had previously used (at least not where I trained), but there were some very subtle 'principles' which I got to practice and focus on. It was after many years of such Tai-Chi that I unfortunately found myself in a few situations in which I had to apply my martial arts. Interestingly, each time it was the time I had spent in Tai-Chi that did the job. It was the principles I had 'mastered' in Tai-Chi that swayed the day.
This mirrors my experience as well. If it wasn't for taichi I would have had some very unpleasant experiences.
Sounds like a load of bollocks.
It seems the founders of tai chi were also seasoned fighters or bladesmen with high fight IQs who fazed into tai chi, The use of most soft combat systems, BJJ being an exception, require a good fight IQ in order to understand how to realistically apply them with combat force and effectiveness.
I would love to see Coach Ramsey one day do HEMA. I think he would absolutely dominate everyone! Love from a fellow MMA, HEMA and medieval enthusiast, cheers!
I dunno if that's in his wheelhouse, but it'd be cool! I strongly recommend you check out his video on sword and shield fighting though. He's got like one or two videos demonstrating how sword/shield fighting have essentially the same concepts as barehanded fighting.
@@ChateauLonLon I’ve seen those! Excellent videos!
Fun fact... one of BJJ Legend Marcelo Garcia's best students is Josh Waitzkin (former child prodigy in Chess), Josh is a fantastic Taiji Push Hands champion, as well as being a phenomenal BJJ player. His style is "William C.C. Chen" style.
Jan Lucanus is a Taiji student of Josh and has a youtube channel where he shows fantastic takedown defense and control using his Taiji vs BJJ and Judo/MMA competitors.
th-cam.com/users/WorldPushHands
I did taiji after learning karate and MMA and your right, it's good to reverse engineer.
Wetting my pants for the HEMA name-drop! I'm a HEMAist and I've studied MMA for decades now, and I love when there's crossover and mutual respect between the two arts. Also, just wanted to say that I appreciate your passionate syncretism. I love the context you give to traditional Asian martial arts that illuminates why they are the stylized forms they are and the ways in which they tie into real combat arts. Clearly the folks who practiced these arts in the past didn't set out with the intention to make them bullshido, and it's awesome to deconstruct and recontextualize their intended original purpose. Love your channel, my friend. Cheers!
As someone who trained for years in a traditional kung fu school (mostly Yang style Tai Chi and Northern Praying Mantis) I can say that I agree pretty much 100% with what you've said. There were some people in our school who could actually use Tai Chi for fighting but all of them, no exception whatsoever, had had a lot of experience in combat sports such as MMA, boxing, wrestling, etc. Most of the other students (myself included) were pretty unathletic and would, without a doubt, get destroyed in anything close to a real fight. And this was not a McDojo but a traditional school with a qualified teacher. Thing is, most people who decide to pick up Tai Chi these days are not interested in fighting but instead they do it for health, longevity, spiritual reasons, etc. And while the mysticism of Tai Chi might be a delusion, the health&longevity aspect can be real - our Sifu was already in his late 60s but could still do full splits and head kicks, was strong as hell, and in great shape overall.
You changed my view of fighters, thank you. Your the only one I follow. Not because of your fighting ability, but rather because of your authenticity and work ethic. Thank you for your example.
Great video. Thank you! I teach Chen taiji in USA. It always seemed weird to me that forms are generally taught without applications. At the foundation of taiji are the six harmonies which includes intention leading your energy. How can a student learn a movement in a form with out applications so they have intention when they practice? Some teachers believe applications should not be taught until students are proficient in form. I disagree. How can a student become proficient in form if they have no intention behind it?
Only just got to watch this, thank you so so much for answering!!! I never imagined it would be enough to make a video, I'm truly honored.
You are welcome! Thanks for the great question!
Taiji doesn't really mean "the highest form of combat" at all. The "Taiji" of Taijiquan is a reference to the cosmological principle of an absolute state where space and time expand to their maximum extent as opposed to the "Wuji", or void, that precedes it. The state of Taiji ultimately collapses to relativity and infinite change (yin-yang [light-dark, up-down, left-right] and wuxing [five element rotations]) respectively, creating the reality as we experience it. Taijiquan is only named after this principle.
This is also a technical description of Taijiquan, since it teaches one to expand their posture "internally" to the six direction, extending the spine simultaneously up and down and opening and stretching the joints of the limbs. This kind of body has no weak angles and can be dictated and guided by the movement of one's center of gravity, ie. dantian. That's why standing post training and the _long_ solo form are so emphasized in the practice: you can only do postural adjustment via solo work.
The name taijiquan was first given to Yang Luchan's boxing (previously known as cotton fist/Yang family fist) by a poet in the Qing court because his boxing was like a physical expression of the Taoist concept of taiji.
@@emptyemptiness8372 Which is very much in line with my previous comment as well! :)
Yes that is right, I'm not sure why a video being critical of this excellent system of martial art has been posted by someone who doesn't even know what the name means. Very odd and rather arrogant.
@@TheRetroman68 the problem is few people have the authentic transmission of taijiquan and even less are able to manifest the principles under the stress combat because lineages have been broken over the last 100 yrs.
Yang taijiquan has not produced any real fighters that live up to the reputation of supreme ultimate fist since Yang Shao Hao (his younger brother Yang Cheng Fu was not interested in fighting and most Yang style taiji today comes down from him) and his uncle Yang Ban Hao. Chen(if you include Chen as taiji) hasnt produced a real fighter that takes challenges since Chen Fa Ke and I don't think Sun style has produced a serious fighter since its founder Sun Lutang.
@@emptyemptiness8372 I'm from the Cheng Tin Hung Wudang Tai Chi. It has produced full contact fighters .
Yes, demonstrating what these forms do in a fight would be really informative.
I'm not great at fighting by any stretch of the imagination--not against a real fighter, anyway (I'd get absolutely crushed by a real fighter). Most bullies aren't real fighters, so they usually just back down when I stand my ground and show I'm willing to defend myself. But I've loved Taijiquan ever since I got interested in martial arts as a kid, even though it didn't make a lot of sense to me as a combat art the way it was being taught (other than improving my balance and coordination).
It wasn't until I learned a few grappling techniques when I was older that some of the Taijiquan forms made more sense to me. I had a couple of "Oh, that's how it's supposed to work," moments. I love that you've done a few videos on the topic--it feels a bit like vindication. Lol!
Hello everyone, I'd like to say I really appreciate your videos they have brought me joy and calm through these tough times and also push me to keep working on stuff even when I have set backs. The other thing is after watching this video and going to the gym I think I had one of those lightbulb moments. I was shadow boxing between sets and was nearing the end when I tried incorporating the punch kata from taekwondo from a jab and my cross felt more crisp, faster, and a bit more powerful and then it hit me that I think you had a video on this, gabriel varga had one, sylvie von Douglass of the muai thai library, and a few others talk about not just throwing the punch out but the retraction is also important and I tried to remember that and practice it but it never hit me at to other reasons why other that defense until watching this video and trying it with a new thought process. Thank you again, your videos are much appreciated. Sorry for the long comment I was just kungfu panda excited after getting my light bulb moment lol.
The way I practice my Tai Chi is that I don't think of it as practicing a "technique", it's practicing a movement. Techniques can be used at the wrong time, but movements are different. When do you use that movement? You use it when you do it, movement usually doesn't require a lot of planning. It's easy to get distracted with technique and doing them "right" or proper. But an actual fight is so mobile and chaotic, you can only REALLY practice moving in that mobile/chaotic environment. So when you move in that way, you've practiced moving in that way from Tai Chi, so your movement is efficient and you're not mentally noting that your technique is terribly wrong. That is what Martial Arts is about. Being Artistic in your Martial movements. Any movement you make, as a martial artist, is part of your art. Tai Chi helps me see every movement as a technique as opposed to "Footwork is required for Positioning which is required for proper Technique".
It's challenging to even try to describe the perspective in which Tai Chi has it's most value. If you were to ask me "should I learn Tai Chi so I can fight", my answer would be "heck no". However, if I knew you practiced fighting or any martial art, I would likely recommend learning Tai Chi.
It is a supplement that quickly takes its place as the implement as soon as the practitioner realizes it. I hope that makes sense.
Thanks for your content Ramsey, I learn a lot from you.
Description like from some anime episode ...at the moment when someone knocks you to the ground and starts choking your joints, you need to know exactly what technique is attacking you, otherwise you won't do anything
@@TH-camChillZone I agree with you in essence, you do need to know how to render an attack ineffective. However, you do not need to disassemble every detail of a technique to render it ineffective, you only need to know which smaller movements disassemble certain parts of the technique. This is kind of why Tai Chi is so difficult to really explain why it works so well, definitions of words get in the way, of it relies on abstract application to a certain degree. That's really where people get turned off as they think that immediately means it's woo woo.
😊pppj
Most of the Bodyguards and Escorts that served the Emperors Practiced Shuai Jiao, Bagua(Yin Fu), Xinyi and Tai Chi. It's great to see the research on the effectiveness of what's hidden in the form or failed to be properly taught.
I do Kyokushin, judo and muay thai. Would love it if you made some videos on applying some of the kyokushin kata. While i feel that doing kata has helped me develop more control, snap and body sensitivity when it comes to striking, i often feel kind of confused as to what the purpose of some of the movements are.
Man, I miss doing Kyokushin
I do Okinawan Karate and I know exactly what you mean. I've found, after years of looking for answers, that a good rule of thumb is, if it doesn't seem to make sense, it's probably a grappling move.
@@varanid9 yeah, i was often confused by many of the circular, flowing techniques of goju style kata (Sanchin, tensho etc.) but find that they tend to be some kind of pummeling, hand fighting or clinching. I love discovering the many different ways the same techniques can be applied.
I think the issue with Karate kata is that they've been so changed from the original form (though Kyokushin isn't as bad as Shotokan in that regard), that working out exactly what the movements correspond to is very difficult. Especially because you might already be training some of the Bunkai in sparring without even realizing.
It's also very difficult because all Karate has become far more striking focused, and the kata reflects this, the traditional style was more focused on grappling however. The majority of techniques are intended to be used around standup grappling, and the approach leading up to this, much like traditional Boxing. Fast linear strikes to the face and body, with some low kicks to damage mobility or target the lower abdomen, followed by clinching, where short powerful strikes like elbows, knees, or hook-/uppercut-like strikes with the hands (which do exist in Karate kata), attacks to the legs to try and off-balance your opponent, throws and sweeps after you gain an advantage in the clinch, and finishing strikes to the floored opponent, or even standing submissions. This is the focus of Karate, and so this is how you should approach the Kata. Usually they proceed along a simulated sequence of events where you strike, grapple, sweep/throw/trip, and finish in some way, but since these were adapted by people in recent generations with striking in mind, this isn't always obvious. Kyokushin at least fights heavily around clinch range, and you learn those lovely chest to chest high kicks, so I'd say have a look at the Kata you want to dissect, and think of it in terms of an open (i.e. limited or no rules) fight. Consider distance, where your hands are, and what the next action is likely to be. Then get a friend to spar with, ask them to attack you lightly, with takedowns and clinching allowed, and see where it goes.
Kata will definitely help you with the basics of technique though, if only because you learn good hip movement, footwork, and relaxation/contraction timing. I had that even with Shotokan, which also gave me pretty good timing, but trying to work out what they actually meant is almost always more effort than it's worth unless you are someone like Iain Abernathy who makes money from doing so haha.
I think as a rule of thumb though, circular movements are likely to be involved with grappling techniques, such as moving arms out of the way to establish a controlling position, stuffing a strike in the clinch, fighting for hooks or ties as Ramsey has said before, or being used to setup a throw (such as a morote or ippon seoi nage where the arms move around and under the arm or shoulder) or joint lock.
@@WilliamTheViking I did Uechi Ryo for a while, but it wasn't 'till I met a Southern Mantis boxing instructor that I understood what a lot of it was actually supposed to be.
I've practiced martial arts for 23 years now and I never saw Taijiquan for what it is. I never gave it any credibility for being useful in a fight so I never trained in it much less really analyzed the movements. Once you said that about grappling a light bulb went off. If you were to practice clench fighting by yourself a lot of it looks like Taijiquan. That just blows my mind. I cant believe I never made the connection. Thanks for the video!
I'm a Tai Chi Chuan practitioner, and phisiotherapist using Tai Chi with my patients.
I agree with you Ramsey!
In order to practice sparring I train with friends at a bare knuckle boxing gym for stiking and Judo and Ju Jutsu practitioners for grappling. To this day I can't think of a Tai Chi practitioner with whom I'd spar to mantain my (waning) fighting skills.
When it comes to health it's EVEN WORSE!!!
I actualy treated patients with Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, and neurological as well as orthopedic conditions, so I do know how to usee Tai Chi for health; I do not tell my patients I teach them Tai Chi! I just get them to do movements they are familiar, using the principles and leg stances of tai chi.
most of famous "masters" i hear quoting papers found on pub med are basically using them for marketing their prodct. Very few can provide a living proof of someone recovering from a condition!
I'd add to your advice to question any claims and ask for tangible proof!
That was beautiful Ramsay. Thanks for giving Taiji a bit of love that was deserved.
A long time judo man once told me that he wished he had done Tai Chi instead of judo, so he would be free of injuries in his old age. That is something to think about. Yes, martial arts are very interesting and people should not get impairments through them. Cheers.
I mean wear and tear is unavoidable if you want to actually learn how to fight, because it requires significant athletic training. Tai Chi does not spar, it doesn't involve high impact athletic training, and it certainly doesn't involve conditioning. So yes, you aren't likely to get injured, but you also don't really gain anything practical either. Judo is a hard style, it involves being thrown on the floor, and throwing other's, thousands upon thousands of hours, and there isn't really anything you can do to avoid that. The same goes for wrestling or Sambo, it's pretty inevitable, just like striking puts serious stress on the knees and wrists.
You can avoid injury and stay fit, but you will never get to a high level unless you push your body hard. It's an unfortunate aspect of life, our bodies degrade over time, and you can certainly do a lot to prevent or slow this, but it is somewhat inevitable.
There's always a cost to anything we gain in life, you just need to decide on what's important to you.
“Tai Chi does not spar” FALSE. People who don’t know how to fight don’t spar. I still have injuries from sparring with a master of taiji and getting repeatedly thrown on stone tiles.
@@RamseyDewey
My point was more to do with the fact that the wear and tear from athletic conditioning is unavoidable, as is the damage you build up from sparring, and any form of conditioning that somewhat resembles an actual fight is always going to be high impact. Judo is obviously far more high impact that Tai Chi as it is trained now, and I would argue that if you were training Tai Chi like the grappling/striking hybrid style it is, instead of just a form of choreography, then it would most definitely be high impact because you would be throwing, being thrown, and eating strikes, as you describe. I think that would definitely cause the same problems when you are older, and any real practice for any martial art is going to have the same consequences. I think you can definitely lessen them through softer training, but I mean there's some level of unavoidable stress on the body, right? If we both trained in different martial arts but we both hard sparred, did athletic conditioning, and fought, we'd both end up taking inevitable injuries over time, and there is much you can do to prevent damage to cartilage aside from trying to avoid impact. OP seemed like he was saying that Tai Chi is preferable to Judo due to the injuries, I was just trying to point out that most people don't train Tai Chi like they train Judo, and if it was, you'd see the same injuries occur. If you get me?
I also mean in a general context, I believe you could state this and be true most of the time. Are there some people who practice Tai Chi and they do spar, doing more practical variations of push hands? Absolutely! But I think the vast majority of people who train Tai Chi do not do so in a way in which it would be practical, even if they do practice push hands. You could also make an argument that the only people who actually do spar with Tai Chi are those who've been trained in other martial arts (as the guy you talked about was) and then translated that knowledge to Tai Chi itself in order to find the practical elements, because, correct me if I'm wrong, but Tai Chi as a style was fundamentally changed during the Cultural Revolution, much like the vast majority of Chinese Martial Art's, and was saved largely because Mao found it very aesthetic, but it was saved in a non-practical form, with only the choreography of the forms being kept somewhat intact. The style is largely extinct as it was practiced before this as a result, and we certainly don't have guys like Yang Luchan running around anymore, and it's super uncommon to find someone that can actually grapple, let alone fight, with any of the Tai Chi styles. I mean I remember asking my Chen Tai Chi teacher about it when I lived in Hunan, and he just told me something along the lines of "if you want to fight go learn Sanda, but your body might not thank you for it". He was very strong for his age, and he had an extremely solid base with great balance, he probably could have been a very good grappler due to his years of training, we just never did the training like I had done in BJJ or Judo, it was all forms, and that's really my experience over years of Tai Chi, and I think it is most people's as a whole. If I could find a practical teacher, I'd of course love a few lesson's!
I know people who practice Aikido, and who can fight, but can they fight because they know Aikido? Or can they use Aikido in a fight because they already knew how to fight. I've had the same to be true with Tai Chi as well, and the only people I've known from training the style in China who actually had any idea what to do had trained Sanda, in the UK this was generally even worse, but I did have a teacher who was a blackbelt in old-school Taekwondo (the power-era style, and he had several teeth missing as a result of eating head kicks), and he could fight (though he was getting older), but I'd say that was due to the years of experience he had sparring in TKD. You can make almost anything work if you have enough experience, but most people might not have that experience or knowledge to do so, and might not train in the same way. My experience with Tai Chi is probably different to your's, and I don't think many people are so fortunate as you to meet someone like that. It's pretty rare to find a really competent martial artist in these kind of styles.
I once got hurt by a taichi master who I had inadvertently offended due to a translation misunderstanding in China. He did something to my wrist, and it hasn't been 100% since. That was about 15 years ago.
We actually train tai chi with live sparring and grappling. Funnily enough our teacher is a black belt in Judo who then learned Kung fu and Tai Chi. So kind of seems like that is the way to go.
I read many years ago a quote by a Chinese Tai Chi Chuan master named Cheng Man Ching, ( traditional Yang style) who wrote he first studied Hsing I, then when he mastered this he studied Pa Kua, and finally Tai Chi Chuan. Because without the foundations of the others Tai Chi was beyond learning. I believe Tai Chi Chuan translates as Supreme Ultimate.
That's not Cheng Man Ching. He never learned Xing Yi Quan nor Bagua Zhang.
You're talking about Sun Lu Tang. The grandmaster of the three internal martial arts.
Nope. Chen Man Ching is someone else.
I’ve possibly misremembered his name but I don’t think so. I had the book written by his student .@@joshpickles9022
I’ve possibly remembered the correct name of the founder of the Yang style in the west but misapplied the quote . The principle still applies though and is my error in crediting his saying it when another did. @@KelGhu
I think it was my quote that has been misattributed to him when it was another’s , my error .hands up !
I really liked the background of applications played in combat sport training and sparring. Showing you're more than your words. well played and well made.
I've had a heavily experienced Tai chi teacher.
He's had a giant gut, invisible grappling powers and boy he controlled his striking since there was only one student as tall as him.
That student could fight 3 guys at a time (gloves and all).
Was that supposed to be "invincible grappling powers"? If no, could you explain what invisible grappling powers are?
@@Off-Brand_Devin most of his grappling, which is pulling, pushing, locking and pins were done at angles where I couldn't force myself out of them.
It made impression of invisible forces, where his body didn't exert strength to roll his students into pretzels.
@@manubishe Ah, cool. Thanks for the explanation.
This is so interesting to me, because I found your channel while researching for Tai Chi application.
I'll throw a huge text wall here, but it's ok if you don't find this interesting.
Now I'm not even a fighter and probably will never be, I'm an Aikido practitioner. But I've always been a thinker (I guess), I like to understand how things work and why they work.
I only have 10 years of practice and a couple years ago I graduated Shodan which, as you know, it means I know the (basic) form.
All this time I've only practiced Aikido for what it is, because I enjoy the logical thinking behind it and studying biomechanics, but since my graduation I've been getting tired of the same old practices. I noticed that even worse than putting aside pressure testing, most instructors are bound to the form. The practice is always about the movements included in the form with some variations and whatnot, but always the same form (and here I'm not criticizing my Sensei, which is quite good and I enjoy her teachings. She actually started in Kung Fu, although I don't know her style). Sometimes we even get to practice some variations that are hard to work even in a non pressure environment, mind you.
So I started to question it. What's the deal here? Why we do this? Why this way? Are the techniques flawed? Are the teachings flawed?
Then there was this day I was watching the Shang-Chi movie, where some peculiar martial arts movements were depicted and felt to me very reminiscent of the elder people's Tai Chi. And it got my attention not only due to the beautiful movements but also because I noticed a certain circular movement pattern and pushing of arms that would result in locks. I couldn't avoid to realize how similar that was from what I've been practicing all these years.
Now I knew what I had to do and how to find back my interest for the art. So I started looking for information about Tai Chi application.
Right at the beginning, I found this one channel of a guy who offers a lot of content related to Tai Chi and internal martial arts. There's a lot of "magician teachings" there, but there's this one video I found very interesting with Sifu Adam Hsu where he speaks about some practical use of Tai Chi and how, according to him, the true techniques are hidden in the form. The piece of information I found most interesting was that (from memory, so maybe not 100% accurate) "Chinese Kung FU is not about throwing fists, that's Kung Fu movie. Chinese Kung Fu don't let go of the arms, it's always keeping in contact". This made so much sense in my head.
Looking into this, found a few more videos of Dr. Yang from YMAA about the same subject, which not only served to demonstrate how the arms are always in contact with the opponent but, to my surprise, I knew many of his movements from my own practices. Then suddenly I knew where those odd variations I've practiced came from and also the correct way to apply them, the correct movement to study.
Moving on, I've been going deeper and deeper into Kung Fu, even if not a practitioner. I also consume lots of information regarding martial arts in general, from many content creators. Nowadays I'm studying Qin Na for the same reasons I initially looked into Tai Chi and my mind keep being blown away with all I've been learning. It's so great, such a good feeling.
My point with all this is just to contrast with what Ramsey said about reverse engineering. It seems to me more and more that it's crucial for any martial artist, of any style or practice, to always have critical thinking and never limit themselves to a style. Always go deeper, always look around, always learn more.
Anyway. I won't be sorry for my huge text wall because you teached not to be xD
I'm grateful for your teachings. I love how I always come to your channel for the martial arts content and always leave with far more than it.
Have a great day.
Its in interesting discussion to be had about this. I use to do Tai Chi, Kung Fu and San Da. I turned 20 and had a sort of mid life crises concerning the fact I never did martial arts. I gravitated towards a Shaolin school because of the energy it gave. It was fun but eventually I injured myself and had to stop after oh give or take 2 years. It would take around 10 to get a black belt at that school so I wasnt high in rank so take what I say with a grain of salt. With 20/20 hindsight I wanted to believe in the art yet there was a lingering doubt in my heart about it. You would do things and not understand why or what for. Mcdojos are rampant in the tradition MA community. This doesnt help if you have issues with imposter syndrome as well. Later after I got better I became a hema fencer because I was envious of not doing martial arts and fencing with longswords sounded awesome. I felt sort of safe doing it because I wasnt doing advanced calisthenics and gymnastics because alot of those techniques would agitate my back injury.
My favorite treatises were Italian, mainly Fiore. It was Fiore that made everything click, it was almost like a plateau breaker. The grappling in Fiore rhymes Heavily with Tai Chi. The legend on the Fiore map helped me find where tai chi was in the territory even though it was a different tradition, region and era. Tai Chi and other eastern martial arts are REAL! It is merely A victim of its own success and modern happenstance like many other TMA's.
what I mean by victim is this:
-Tai Chi was out shadowed by itself. Its health benefits washed out its martial culture. Really its the same with other TMA's. The health benefits are important but it cant be stressed enough how it accidentally watered down the arts.
-TMA's in general dont understand this key rule of thumb. TMA's in the east had THREE branches which were all important and needed in their own way. Those branches being Martial, Religious and Theater. In the modern era they have been fused together in this messed up Frankenstein and instead of synergizing and complementing each other they are parasitic to each other. These three branches are important in their own way and must be respected in their own context. This does not occur and now the house is divided. You are not allowed to separate them in their own context now. Dont think im picking on China either. This can be argued about other traditions. Sumo is actually a perfect example because it also has a internal conflict of all three of these branches. A sumo Yokozuna has to be the martial artist, a religious avatar of shinto warding evil spirits with salt and stomps yet is also being a theater performer with their matches then being a host at charities for their stables. They wear many hats, have many responsibilities, cannot do all of them at once, thus they feel under appreciated and overworked. This rhymes heavily with their Chinese counterparts.
-Their living traditions overshadowed their written traditions. This may surprise people but actually they have a large source of treatises as well. They just arent really represented. There are some channels that discuss it. two examples being The Scholar-General 墨將點兵 and ChineseLongsword. Perhaps there are more on non English speaking channels? It seems like its not really mentioned at all. Living traditions are important. But the written tradition is just as important in my opinion.
-Politics have derailed their art. and example being Xu Xiaodong pointing out clear issues in his mma community but being accused of being a traitor and get blacklisted from everything. They fail to understand the three branches of eastern martial arts. Xu is absolutely correct in his concerns. If people mistake the other two branches for the martial tradition it will only make their countries MA weaker yet they believe he is attacking tradition. He is merely trying to maintain its balance. But it appears its a cultural taboo for him to speak out. I have no problem being the "loud American" the east seems to like to hire to negate that issue.
-They need to lay back on other miscellaneous issues. An example being meat eating. It would be hard for a lot of martial artists to compete if they ate a meatless diet. Perhaps they were fine in previous eras but now its a large handicap. It also needs to be socially acceptable for a martial artist to lose. It seems like they disown you if you fail which shouldnt be the case. failure is a great friend and teacher.
They need to revolve these issues if they want to survive and thrive. On paper it should be easy for practitioners to separate into these categories but certain religious or theater type masters probably dont want to lose the status of the martial type masters. If it was socially acceptable for martial types to simply beat them in matches the issue would resolve itself but this is perceived as an attack on their country and religion.
This is one of the more truly educational videos I've seen recently. I had no clue that there was so much to this art.
You were right to say Táng Láng(mantis), Zhāng Láng(cockroach) also has the Láng.
There is a mantis boxing school in my city. We need to learn chinese language so that we can troll them properly.
Being able to remember/recall is a double edged sword - remembering training and mis-comprehension many years prior allows current learning to make sense. Rhee Taekwondo is a variant of Taekwondo but the discussion of blocks are strikes and kata dissection gives new light on other styles and practices. Thank you for your dissemination on what a martial art is. Practicing fencing it introduced me to the art of swordplay - each weapon has a style because of its design - a foil is not an effective slashing weapon, a sabre however is - each weapon requires knowledge and practice to be effective. For 'us' to be effective we need knowledge and practice - in all manner of things.
I've been doing taiji for a decade now. I can say that I really started understanding the form when I went to Sanda, Muay thai and wrestling.
A lot of obscure movements made a lot more sense.
And I believe now that you don't want to retro ingeneer the forms into fighting, but you actually want to learn techniques and sparr and then you'll find the meaning of the forms.
And to have a global understanding of the form, you need to explore a lot of different techniques.
Training mma, basically, will give substance to the taijiquan form.
And a big secret is that the form becomes a like mind palace where you store and review your techniques.
So for me each posture is like a folder with a bunch of different applications I learned in class.
It also makes learning new techniques so much easier.
I just have to refer the new technique to a posture that uses the same body mechanics.
Well said, Ramsey.
I chuckled when you talked about people who wear jackets with the knot buttons, calling themselves “Shifu” because I made a similar point to someone yesterday.
Rule of thumb for me in TCMA: the prettier the jacket and the more they talk about “energy”, the less they know.
It speaks volumes that this is coming from a guy whose profile picture is a sitting Buddha.
@@peterwang5660 And what volumes does it speak?
Could you be explicit? Because your comment does not speak volumes.
In fact, scratch that, Peter. This is Ramsey’s comments section and we should comment on his video, not on each other. Feel free to critique me on my own channel. I respond to structured, reasoned arguments. All the best.
When comes to tai chi i recomend chanel of ian sinclair he knows how fight and also he knows tai chi to a high degree and he not only teaches meanings of a movement but he focuses more of fighting principles in those movements that are pretty realistic
Hey authentic Chen Style Taijiquan Coach here! Really great video, Taiji is really applicable as long as you actually practice live application. There are alot of loud fakes out there but there are hidden gems as well. You should look up famous Taiji masters. Like Yang Lu Chan was the creator of Yang Style Taiji. He learned Chen Style for 10 years + in Chen Village and travelled to Beijing and became known as Yang the Invincible. The guy who created Chen Style Taiji was a ming dynasty military officer, Chen Wang Ting
cool stuff
Question:
1.Have you ever tried sparring two or more people at once?
2. If so, are there any unique strategies or concepts that you discovered to be effective?
3. Would you ever want to train with the express purpose of becoming better at fighting multiple attackers for a month or three?
Some tips, learned from experience:
Mobility is EVERYTHING, avoid going to the ground, avoid wrestling if at all possible.
Striking is your friend, in fact, insert the kobra kai mantra here. You need to take down one opponent as soon as you can, because once they are out of the fight, your wrestling and ground game comes back online.
Be aware of obstacles and use both them, and your opponent to frame your other opponent.
Try to escape if you can, any outnumbered unarmed fight is overwhelmingly against you unless you're big, really big, and your opponents aren't.
Consider the value of taking hits you wouldn't normally take, to decisively land one of your own if you think it can stop your opponent. You cannot win unless you first secure an incapacitation.
"Run like hell" is how you effectively deal with more than one person at a time. Even untrained folks are dangerous if they outnumber you.
Tai Chi Chuan is translated to Supreme Ultimate Fist. The name is not a boast that it is the best system of fighting, but rather that it is a fighting system based on the supreme ultimate philosophy.. I fully agree that historical European martial arts do not get the recognition they should.
Taijiquan practiononer of 24 years in Chen Man Ching style. Competitor and gold medalist in multiple competitions in form, fixed and moving push hands.. Taijiquan must be understood as the embodiment of the tao manifesting in a martial movement with the emphasis as an art. Taijiquan is not singularly a "grappling" technique - however, due to the philosophy it may be expressed as one when the concepts and philosophers are applied.
Other than that, great video I enjoy your video. Cheers.
YMAA (Yang Martial Arts Association) has schools in various countrys teaching Combat Tai Chi Chuan, and yes, is mostly a grappling art with a few punchs and kicks in the middle.
Ian Sinclair has some good stuff on YT
So glad someone like you is out here educating people what Tai Chi is for real because it is so widely misunderstood. Thank you sir!
Personally I think Taijiquan, specifically Chen Style Taijiquan, is a valid/practical fighting style. That being said, it is probably one of the more difficult styles to apply because of it's overall combat strategies
Depends on the lineage. Some of them actually don't have any martial content, so they import Judo and Sanda stuff and sell it as "Taiji". And people will buy into it, thinking: "Oh! It's all the same." A good thing for people to realize is to not confuse fame with skill - which is what most people do. I think people believe that there's some positive correlation between fame and skill, but I think that's wrong.
@@ShadowParalyzer I agree. Especially with confusing Skill with Fame
I couldn’t agree more! I’m a Taekwondo 4th dan and instructor, but only started to understand some of the shapes in the forms and their grappling applications when I started learning BJJ. It shouldn’t even be too surprising, given that most of the WTF Taekwondo pioneers were also black belts kn Judo. Thank you for a wonderful explanation, Sir!
Ramsey, My ontological (i.e., "Zen") teacher, Peter Ralston, was a student of Wong Chia Man (Wong Jack Man) and William CC Chen, among others, and was the first non-Asian to win the world full contact martial arts championship in China in 1978.
He advised me, and others, that the primary reason that Taijiquan gained popularity was that "back in the day" it was a more effective way to kill. The result of the "Internal Training", back then, resulted in the ability to rupture internal organs. Apparently, back then, striking was the primary skill of the Art.
Not trying to take any of the validity of what you're saying away, but just wanted to add this into the mix.
Thank you for posting this.
You are amazing RD! I wish to make it one day to China and do some training with you. I have been practicing taijiquan for many years since 1996. I am not a master… I have met several great masters though who taught me lots of useful things in connection to the practice of taiji. I have never fought ‘taij way’ until I joined a combined martial arts club and realised how natural the grappling is for me and my likeness for it! It all makes complete sense to me and you are a great hint of the fine vinegar to my life-long mastering knowledge. Xie xie!
It is very refreshing to finally hear someone else say this!!!!…Great Job Brother!
This was really interesting and informative, thanks. I don’t know where the person you were speaking with is located, but I think that William C.C. Chen’s taiji school in NY still puts the gloves on and spars, FWIW.
Yes indeed! His son Max Chen, students like BJJ master Josh Waitzkin, and competitor Jan Lucanus all come from the William C.C. Chen lineage.
Thank you, Ramsey for this great story! I'm proud to practice Yang Family Taiji Quan with a direct disciple ot The Grandmaster Yang Jun -beautiful and powerful soft martial art! There is all takedowns from the freestyle wrestling, some knees and elbows from Muay Thai and even a gillotine and rear naked choke from BJJ,but with so less effort than the muay thai and wrestling moves i 've practiced before! ! Glad that finally a real MMA fighter and coach said the big truth! I hope many people in the martial arts and combat sports world see this video and understand the truth! Traditional chinese internal martial arts are the best! THANKS!
The guy who taught me tai chi and aikido is also a Warriors fan since the 60s, and so his teaching gets peppered not just with philosophy through the lens of Steph Curry, but with how my teacher watches games and sees this person doing a Ward Off Left from tai chi, that person moving though a Single Whip pose for a moment, and a lot of the entry and wrestler-shooting principles in aikido being demonstrated in how Steph shakes a defender or clears enough space to shoot around them.
I find it inspiring and mention it here specifically because it feels like this same reverse-engineering process.
Always, a, pleasure to listen to your views Ramsey.
I hope, things, improve for you there, in Shang Hai too
Don't be safe, be free
Ramsey, thank you so much for this video. I have been practicing Chinese Kung fu since very young age (I used to base in Hong Kong and my grandfather was a fighter, who practiced mostly mantis style and taijiquan, similar to the master you mentioned in the video)
Since then I moved on to practice jiu-jitsu, Kali and a little bit of boxing. But deep down in my heart, Chinese Kung Fu had a special place. For quite a while I thought those are just for show and heartbroken on how people trashed it. However seeing this video, one day I will definitely go back to doing Chinese Kung Fu and make them "useful" as per say
The soft style moving meditation that is Tai Chi will add so much to any other sport you try. If nothing else it’s a nice way to warm up or cool down.
Ramsey,
All I know as far as Gung Fu,
I trained it in MMA gyms, sparring, with high level fighters. Tested outdoors on the streets too. So, cause I understand what and how to apply these ancient systems, I enjoy listening to the truth you speak.
Tai Chi like all TMA must be tested, against all styles and evolved or out to use!!! My friends were a good help because they were Muay Thai fighters, Kickboxing champions, MMA champions, and my family too.
Good luck to anyone seeking to use Gung Fu. Gung Fu is nature, that's why I love it. MMA is a must tool to test any art.
The taekwondo form demonstrated around 18:45 is one that we did in class. Like the other forms we did, the purpose of any of it was never explained. The self defense portion of that class was more like krav maga or mma, but was explicitly separated from the traditional forms and moves. "One is for history and discipline, one is for utility." It drove me crazy that even my instructor, one of the heads of one of the largest organizations in the world, had no interest in or knowledge of the origins of combative taekwondo, seeing it as a relic. Ironically, his own instructor taught the South Korean military unarmed combat for a time. At least I got props for incorporating a ridgehand in sparring.
After decades of doing Chinese martial arts, I came to the conclusion that Tai Chi is a type of Shuai Chiao, with advanced mechanics and additional strategies.
While Chen Style Taiji has two forms (Yi Lu and Er Lu), all the other Taiji styles are really only a subset of Yi Lu and never inherited Er Lu. And, Er Lu, built on top of the foundation of Yi Lu, is the form that has a lot of striking, impact, hardness, jumping, lunging, etc... - which does not sound like "Tai Chi" at all.
People may not even recognize this (a small section of Er Lu) as Taiji: th-cam.com/video/xNHwlJ66z0o/w-d-xo.html
This video is great! my favorite part is all of the movement that happens behind the talking! I assume you are doing various forms and showing how it would be used in real fighting? Breakdowns of what is happening right there would be very very popular! Thanks so much for the content!
Those are clips from various technique videos on my channel. They’re organized into convenient playlists.
@@RamseyDewey thanks so much! I think the way you move is really beautiful to watch!
Techniques are just a scratch on the surface. Many more revelations when the internal is applied to fighting.
Yes that is the “secret” of internal arts. It’s not about technique per se but about skills. Internal martial arts like taijiquan have core skills like rooting, holding structure, touch sensitivity ( listening , following), connecting, power release ( jing). When you have learned all of those to a certain degree and can use them in combat/sparring, then you will find most other opponents( without such knowledge or skills) can not really do much against you. The only problem is finding a teacher with that knowledge willing to instruct you. Even then I have had to “ reverse engineer” or adapt neijia skills to particular situations since none of my teachers taught me all the different aspects of practical use.
Can you talk more about the connections between capoeira and wrestling? I suspect that like tai chi, due to the method of transmission the fullness of the martial art is largely forgotten. It seems capoeira is well suited to allow someone to deliver big kicks or wrestle from a low center of gravity. Love your capoeira videos btw. Praying for Shanghai.
I mean, Capoeira itself has a few takedowns (many ways of doing the scissor takedown, a few sweeps, kicks meant for unbalancing) and the way they move just looks like it could help on a ground fighting scenario. Just like many old martial arts, Capoeira was meant to be a complete one, which means using grappling and hitting with any part of the body (and in any part of the body), so yeah, it probably did have wrestling. Just look at N'golo (the martial art that Capoeira comes from), their practitioners will actually grapple a lot!!! So yeah, Capoeira was always linked to grappling if that's what you mean by "wrestling"
Taijiquan is fundamentally a counter attacking style using low kicks, strikes, grappling and throwing techniques. Simply train with someone like Dan Docherty (full contact fighter) or one of his students.
I've never met Dan Docherty, but teachers I know generally have a high opinion of his fighting technique (though sometmies a low oinion of his manners). I remember when he was going round pissing off taiji players back in the 1980s, when he was doing a Xu Xiaodong - except that he actually was a taiji player.
@@RobinTurner Unfortunately he died last December, he was a great teacher. At times he was harsh and rude, with terrible manners, and at other times he was very generous. Once after he had polished off half a bottle of whiskey, he told me he was Billy no mates in the Tai Chi world 😃
@@liang3102 I'm sorry to hear that. He certainly was abrasive (one of my few ventures into martial arts writing was a response to Dan shooting his mouth off) but he did a great service to the British taijiquan community by making people get serious about applications, not to mention setting up the first national pushing hands competition.
For my first introduction to Tai Chi, a little old lady who, practicing for 30 years, had excellent posture, good reflexes, good stepping, and who never fell down.
For martial application? Jiu-Jitsu gym.
For crossing from Tai Chi theory to the beginning of martial application? Check out Ian Sinclair's channel.
For the next step getting physical with Tai Chi? Check out Coach Jan Lucanus' channel, and the sports push hands scene (again this is mostly balance play and *very* sport oriented).
I know a guy who did a lot of Tai Chi. Got mugged in a park. Got his ass severely beat. However he was very calm and relaxed during the beat down.
What a wonderful video. I feel like this is a big piece of the puzzle of reclaiming traditional martial arts for combat.
It is a crying shame that taiji chuan has so many unique and useful concepts that have now been buried in a martial arts tradition where nobody fights
Interesting, not first time I have heard Tai Chi is a grappling system. But my question is why is Dim Mak and Chi na grabbing and tearing included in this system of grappling?
Taijiquan is actually both striking and standup grappling, but the striking aspect is a dying component to the degree that people stereotypically associate it with just grappling. Part of this is probably also because people confuse Tuishou competitions to be the same thing as taijiquan - which they're not by any stretch of the imagination.
Dim Mak or diǎnxué has to do with pressing certain points on the body - often to inflict pain or discomfort, but if you're thinking like the scene in Kill Bill where you make someone's heart explode, then, that's fiction. How would you even train for that? A new practice partner per successful attempt?
As for Qinna... doesn't BJJ, Judo, Aikido, etc... all have small joint manipulation stuff in their curriculum? Why would it be weird for Taijiquan to have their own arsenal of it too?
@@ShadowParalyzer I think it’s the opposite!! Most people believe TC to be a striking art and as stated in this video, Movies and Arcade games promote that image.
Striking arts are so much more popular because practitioners of martial arts tend to want to train at a safe distance, they don’t want to get up close and hug another sweaty training partner.
@@ShadowParalyzer GJJ, Judo, and most wrestling systems do not have sealing the vein, pressure point striking and other things stated that Chinese arts have. Chi Na as far as I have been taught is seizing the pressure points, muscles, flesh and not just small joint manipulation.
Again, Instead of these lovely slim tall women practicing the forms I constantly see online I’d like to see APPLICATIONS being shown followed by sparring. I’m yet to be pointed in the direction of a Master who’s Instagram, TH-cam channel, FB etc bulging with this content!!
Show me, convince me and I’m open to train in it.
One of the few Masters I’ve heard has the real stuff is John Ding in the U.K.
is he willing to share the “Real Stuff” is another matter as still this BS secrecy around Chinese martial arts.
That’s why they practical fighting arts are dying out and GJJ/Bjj who are happy to share and spread their system are probably the number one martial art system practiced these days.
@@adam28171 The smartass side of me wants to point out that BJJ’s rear naked choke is technically all about crushing the side arteries on the side of the neck, right? That sounds like sealing the veins to me. (I’m joking here.) I have never heard of Qinna having anything to do with trying to seal someone’s veins.
Lovely women practicing form, you say? Sounds like, you didn’t saw any Taijiquan then. What you saw is called Performance Wushu. Those are performance arts, not martial arts. They care about aesthetics. Like… if you go to the International Wushu Federation’s rules… you LITERALLY get deducted points for NOT having music… or having vocal in your music as you do the form. Like… those are not traditional martial arts.
Now, here is a video of applications, but bear in mind that these applications is referring to one very specific drill. So, this is, by no stretch of the imagination, representative of the martial art: th-cam.com/video/VJzb8uMEeUw/w-d-xo.html
Real or not, honestly, I don’t recommend others to learn Taijiquan. I have zero faith that they will find it.
@@adam28171 Interesting! That's new to me that people have thought it's a striking focused art. This video seems to think otherwise.
You're right in the sense that Taijiquan don't like being at hugging-distance with an opponent.... especially that if that opponent is much bigger and heavier than you. So they do tend to operate at a Judo-like range - as opposed to like College Wrestling range where they're just hugging each other with their heads pressed up against each other.
Agreed! As a tai chi and qi gong instructor I practice aiming to heal and empower my whole self.
I would say that the main benefit from tai chi is to train the body to move with both power and relaxation. I can't assure tai chi will teach you how to fight; nonetehless, it will teach you how to balance and direct your body/mind. It is also a very good excercise for overall fitness and well-being.
I've always seen older martial arts as clinch based judo-wrestling type arts. Because taichi forms always looks like cheeky clinch techniques that are amazing for the clinch. They also feel dirty to use because you're just basically manipulating someone's balance with your balance which is literally judo and wrestling, i hope taiji gets the recognition as a legitimate art.
I agree that the easiest application to understand for self-defense purposes is grappling, and you're absolutely correct about that, but I disagree that it is only grappling. The same principles apply to striking. It goes as deep as you want it to go.
Dude, you are among the best. You are so insightful and very well spoken. The only thing wrong is that you do not study Daito Ryu. Hey man, I'm joking. Love your stuff. I never knew anyone that Tai Chi had wrestling moves are that it was basically wrestling. Thanks a million.
I think you're onto something. You may be venturing into uncharted waters. You going to have to be the Pioneer on this one.
I've said it before, things changed a lot over the past 20-30 years in martial arts schools and mostly not for the better. When I started practicing wushu (in the early 90s) things like tai chi and various punching forms (a.k.a. "shadow boxing") were an integral part of it just as much as sparring, we didn't thought of them separately like today. The proportions (of time invested into each of these during a training session) varied depending on individual goals and skill level, but until much more recently I didn't even thought possible to learn just forms for example, that made no sense to me.
That said, there is a specific application of non-combat forms practice derived from traditional Chinese martial arts that I've seen developing and I wholeheartedly support: medical rehabilitation. Here in Bucharest handful of dedicated wushu masters worked for years together with physical therapists and medical doctors to use some specific whushu forms (including tai chi) for improving/accelerating physical rehabilitation of patients recovering from major trauma and more recently cerebral stroke and cardiac infarction as well. It's an ongoing work with great results from the medical standpoint and similar studies done elsewhere proved equally successful (according to the published results). But this has little to do with actual martial arts training and I despise people who tarnish the reputation of wushu by splitting it into small worthless pieces.
I've supplemented my Karate with what I was told was Tai chi over 20 years, and it's helped me maintain flexibility as I've aged and taught me the value of doing movements so slowly that you are consciously aware of what each muscle is doing and how each part of the body is aligned. For fighting it teaches you to listen to what an opponent is doing, which helps with timing. But in terms of actually applying Tai chi techniques......in a real fist fight. Not a chance. It's great healthy exercise for older folks but otherwise it's not a system of fighting. So worthwhile, as long as you're honest about what it is and what it's not.
Guess what the Master you met was teaching was more authentic Tai Chi, that is useful, but it isn't distinct from grappling. Unless someone's training with that guy, I doubt it would be useful as anything but a supplemental training - and definitely not a replacement for actual grappling/striking.