I like to think Milton, despite his sadistic tendencies, tried to uphold some code of honor. He didn't immediately try to kill Arthur and the rest of the gang and offered them 3 chances at running away. Ross didn't even try to hide what a vindictive bastard he was.
@Rdr2449 Did you just completely blackout the part where Milton and Ross march into Clemen's Point to tell everyone to leave and live and normal life? That was the chance he gave them. Pay attention.
I get the "haha funny" thing about this, but given Milton's response to it, He knew John was bullshitting him and that John responding with "Rip van Winkle" was just his own way of saying "Go Fuck Yourself" to him.
@@tylerwisner8682But it would be funny to entertain the idea that maybe he did, I mean I just played through that part yesterday and Milton didn’t seem to be fazed at all by John, to the point where I wasn’t sure if Milton knew it was sarcasm or not.
@@FrtordelsBut would they even know his name after capturing him? The fact that Milton didn’t know who he was shows that John had likely flown under the radar in the eyes of the law, and it’s not like they could DNA test him to see who he was in 1899. John could easily have given them another fake name and they could really do nothing except maybe try torturing it out of him if they thought he was lying, such was the challenges of an age before DNA databases and social security numbers and driver’s licenses. You know come to think of it, if John hadn’t been captured at that bank he might’ve not been hunted down later, but would he have left the gang if they hadn’t left him for dead?
Milton was never a bad guy. He was doing his job in general as an officer of the state. Wanna be technical we are the bad people. However after Milton was killed it sent Ross on a diffrent path and he became corrupt after realizing there is no hope for scum
I’d say Milton was a neutral guy doing a bad job well. When you take a step back and really think about it, Milton saying he enjoyed killing the Van Der Linde members really isn’t that bad considering how awful most of them were. How was he supposed to know Hosea wasn’t that bad a guy? He was one of the founding members of the gang.
The reason why I believe that Ross was so brutal in RDR 1 was because he learnt from Milton’s mistakes being that Milton gave the gang chance after chance to turn themselves but they refused so he when caught John he knew from the start that Ross was going to take out John
it might also have to do with the fact that, well, the gang is responsible for Agent Milton's death. He was Edgar's mentor, to some extent at least. So he might've seen taking out the last high profile Van der Linde members as revenge for Milton. ANd that included John. For Milton, taking out the Van der Linde Gang was, at least at first, solely "professional", and he handles it pragmatically: He knows that, without Dutch as unifying force, the gang would splinter apart. Some will return to crime, like Micah, probably Arthur, maybe Hosea, etc. And without the gang, they'd be much easier to hunt down and take out. The rest, for all he cares, can go and live happily as civilians. Without Dutch to drive them on, they are harmless. And if Dutch gets turned in, he doesn't have to get into a shootout with a highly armed, highly competent bunch of outlaws. Also has to be rememebred: Agent Ross is set on the whole "Hunt down Williamson!" thing by Nate Johns for his electoral campaign. Nate Johns wants to "clean up" as to be elected governor, and puts Ross at Williamson. A nice feather in Ross' cap. Ross handles it by sending out John. Two birds, one stone (or rather, 4 birds, one stone). John takes out Williamson, and in the process also nets Escuella. THen, Dutch returns... Three of the last hgih profile members... And finally, John himself. Revenge for Milton and a job well dne.
Personally I feel like Milton would’ve let them live their lives peacefully if they’d taken his offer. Milton is a direct reflection of society itself. He is accommodating and respectful, but if you don’t play by his rules he will hunt you to the ends of the earth and the end of time. I feel Milton would’ve let the rest of the gang go because it would be the civilized thing to do, not to break a deal. Ross was motivated purely by greed and pride. He most likely never intended to let John live. John was the only person on earth who could contest the idea that Edgar Ross had tracked and killed the remaining outlaws himself. John was always the final loose end Ross had to clean up at some point.
In rdr2 Emmet Granger was apparently allowed to live a peaceful life and given a bit of land because of a deal with the government. The only government agents we see in RDR2 are Milton and Ross so it’s possible that Granger took their offer up and was spared.
@@Jose-ue1ss In this case yes. Granger talks about how tough he is, but as soon as Arthur starts threatening him he comes clean about being a government witness, also Theodore writes on the back of Emmet Grangers picture “Federal pardon - WHY?” So he’s probably being completely honest about being a rat.
@@simoneidson21 they were cartoonishly evil true, but they absolutely followed the letter of the law most of the time. The vast majority of their killing was allowed by the government.
You can really see the big difference between Milton and Ross during the first time you meet them in RDR2. Milton finds a wanted criminal taking a child out on a fishing trip, announces his arrival and approaches them unarmed, informs Arthur of his intentions and explains his reasons, offers Arthur an exchange for his freedom, informs Arthur of Mac's passing, remains calm and collected even after Arthur shows aggression, threatens the adult and only the adult, walks away calmly. Ross finds a wanted criminal taking a child on a fishing trip, approaches them with a shotgun in hand and says absolutely nothing, aims the gun when Arthur shows the slightest bit of anger after finding out his friend died, threatens not the guilty adult, but the innocent powerless child who doesn't understand what's going on, leaves. Milton is honest, calm, offers mercy even to the undeserving, and is collected even when threatened by someone who could easily overpower him, and does it all for his country. Ross is egotistical, smug, unforgiving, quick to intimidate, and gets off from talking down on those he knows he can beat, and he does it all for fame and fortune.
Maybe just because I’m stupid but personally I trust Milton would have kept his word early on. I say it was all business with him unlike Ross. I do believe that’s the biggest difference between the two.
I agree. Milton probably would’ve let them live normal lives, he says it himself “I enjoy society, flaws and all”. He probably would’ve let them live simply because it would’ve been the civilized thing to do.
@@star4326i still think he would have gotten the main gunslingers of the gang put in jail. on the beach with arthur he says “you have my word you won’t swing” while i do think he would hold true to that part, i still think he would have had arthur put away
When I think about it, Ross may have reflected on the way Milton gave the Van Der Lind gang chances and decided to not make the same mistake by being sparing. I like that for the narrative of the overall series.
Thing is Ross watched Milton he learned from him he learned what to do and not to do even before the start of the second game then in the first he used all he had learned from the gang and his former boss
Unfortunate that Ross took the route of traitor instead of Milton’s. At least had Milton taken John family, he would at least kept his promise. And not turn on John after.
@@RyanTheDark Milton always said that he wanted just Dutch, Hosea only died to prove that he was willing to kill anyone Dutch cared about to get to Dutch
Controversial opinion: It’s totally understandable why Ross betrayed John in the end, especially after RDR2. If gameplay during missions is canon, which it probably isn’t but whatever, the Van der linde gang is responsible for killing *hundreds* of people including dozens and dozens of Pinkertons. Ross probably lost a lot of friends, as well as his mentor Milton. Many of the people killed by the gang were totally innocent, like the girl Dutch killed in Blackwater. Yeah Ross is an asshole, but I can understand not just letting things slide. John doesn’t just get to live a normal happy life after everything he’s done. His kill count is probably in the thousands, he’s like a walking 9/11, there need to be consequences.
@@KingAlternatewitness protection doesn't protect you if a different group is tipped off, or the practice isn't fully developed. John and his family did absolutely nothing that indicated witness protection. Not to mention John is still an outlaw meaning he is exempt from any form of legal protection
@@KingAlternate that's not how witness protection works, get that GTA V misconception out of here. The goal of witness protection is to allow people to safely testify in court against someone or a group of people if doing so would put them in danger otherwise. There is no witness protection if the courts are not involved! Michael in GTA V wasn't in witness protection either, that's just what he told Lester, Trevor and Franklin to try to cover up what he actually did. In reality he took a deal with a corrupt FIB agent: Michael would fake his death, Trevor would be killed, burried in Michael's place and signed off by Dave to be lost somewhere in the federal prison system while Brad would go to prison to bear witness in front of both the law and criminal world to this line of events. Dave gets the glory, Michael gets a new life for himself. But Brad was shot instead and Trevor ran off, which screwed up the entire plan and set the events of the entire game into motion.
Milton isn’t an awful man, he does questionable things but gave the gang several chances to give up Dutch and live their lives in peace, even in the end I didn’t hate Milton I was mainly just happy to see him go for Hosea.
Dont forget Milton let the members go after he interrogated them despite not getting info. Many often forget Milton let Molly go after not getting the info he needed despite "sweating her". They only started dying after Milton died and Ross took over, even going so far as to torture Strauss to death. This gives me reason to believe that whether or not he was lying about letting them go they have Dutch in, he still had somewhat of a heart whereas Ross enjoyed torture and instilling fear. As also showing his sadistic tendencies with not just torture but that joke about Abigail dying in prison in RDR1. Milton never wasted time with unnecessarily sadism. The closest being him telling Arthur about his "mercy kill" which arguably was the truth. Anyway youre my fav red dead channel and you earned a subscribe despite my depression usually holding me back from doing so for other channels.
Milton let 2 Members go: Molly, because she didn't have anythin of value and she isn't really anyone useful as far as they can see. She was Dutch's lover, nothing more as far as the Pinkerton's know. They basically couldn't nail her for anything, except for "running with the gang". And if they let her go, she might proof useful in other ways. ANd MIcah, because he would supply information to him. Also, Ross is "just" an agent. He didn't take over the Pinkerton Detective Agency. It might have been under Ross' orders how Strauss was treated... or it might have been someone else. Also, anyone remembering how he shot Hosea in cold blood?
@@undertakernumberone1 Hosea was a deadly outlaw who had also shot many others in cold blood. Ross was replaced as the head of the field team for the vanderline gang sense milton was killed.
Yeah he knew it too when Abigail first mentioned it. Her leaving him made him feel like he'd rather go down with his family rather then hiding out alone by himself as long as he could. Johns ending was the best ending because all the wrong he's done had to catch up to him at some point. He died protecting his family.
I think that we only really see these two from the Outlaws point of view. One must remember that in a traditional western these two are the good guys. If you think about it the cycle of murder degrades everyone involved. Milton's death likely changed Ross for the worse in the same way as John's death turned Jack into the killer his father never wanted him to be. One can assume that at some point Jack was also killed by someone avenging Ross.
Probably as a very old man due to several theories saying otherwise, mainly the book one. But Yeah i wouldn’t be suprised he is shot, just not very likely with how things are put.
@@nordicgaming5429 I saw the ending as a grim message of "Things change, but violence is forever." In another game it would be the beginning, not the end.
@@theprelate4219 I seriously doubt that Jack was hunted down by somebody wanting to avenge Ross... Ross was killed in Mexico, in a border region which, in the game, is called out, iirc, evne in 1911 as a.... turmultous area with a banditry issue. Jack never gives his name. THe best the the Beauro or anyone would ahve to work on would be his description, and if he shaves and cuts his hair, that's already less useful. "Ross was killed in Mexico! Last I know, some young lad tried to find him... Never saw him again. Said he was from the BoI!" Well, while the BoI, if they even could investigate in Nuevo Paraiso, would know that the part that he was from the Bureau was a lie, they might as well believe that, considering the fame Ross has, he wanted to meet a RL hero or something like that. And then? Maybe they got robbed by a bunch of bandidos! Ross got killed and the lad kidnapped for hwatever reason. If we had a Ledger article on it, it wouldn't surprise me if it was framed as "Edgar Ross - Hero dies a Hero's death! Famed former BoI agent Edgar Ross has been found murdered in Nuevo Paraiso, at the mexican coast of the San Luis River. He was shot multiple times. A young man, who had been looking for him, is disappeared. It seems to be the logical conclusion that the young man had found Agent Ross and the two had been attacked by mexican outlaws. Ross, judging by the guns near him, had tried to fight back, most likely to defend his young acquaintance, and was killed. It is unknown what happened to the other man." And that's ignoring the issue of Ross' corpse potentially falling into the river and just disappearing. And until news of that move back to anyone wanting to avenge him, days, if not weeks would have passed. The trail would be cold before the search even starts. This is a pre-internet, pre-TV time.said
@@undertakernumberone1 Ross was a Pinkerton, and the Pinkertons were a cut above what passed for a detective at the time. I doubt his collegues would just let the matter go. Jack either left a witness in Ross's wife or he became the sort of man who murdered her as well. It is entirely possible that Jack got away with it but that does not make for a good story and Red Dead is above all things a story. It is unlikely in any case that Jack lived a peaceful life. Given that this is the Grand Theft Auto universe the 1920's and 1930's are not going to be easy times to live through. That is the golden age of the Mafia. If this game gets another installment do not expect Marston to survive. For Jack to grow old and die in bed surrounded by family breaks the theme regardless of how possible it is.
@@theprelate4219 If the game gets another installment, there is no indication we go any further than 1914. If we get another Red Dead, I want it to have nothing to do with anyoen connected to the Van der Linde Gang. I want a game of its own taking place in the 1870s. Or, if we really need to to connect it to the Van der Linde Gang: "Heigh days" in the early 1890s. Honeslty "end of the west" used too much might become stale. And if that is the GTA universe (which is a bit doubtful, since we have California and New York instead of San Andreas and Liberty City), then Jack wrote the novel "Red Dead", as seen in GTA V. Ross WAS a Pinkerton. By the time he retired, he was an Agent of the BoI. Jack left 3 Wittnesses: The BoI Agent in Blackwater, Ross' wife and Ross' Brother. However, again, none of them know his name. All he has to do is shave and put on some other clothes. If they even assume that he had done anything, considering, again, it happened in Mexico... In an area where banditry still was rampant. They have nothing to follow on after Ross' brother can tell them "I told that young fella that Edgar was hunting ducks down at the river." About the heart times coming: I mean, depending on what you do, Jack can have a load of gold bars and the money made by the hunting of the legendary animals etc. He can be pretty much set. Also: Screw the theme. So often I'Ve heard "but that's for the theme!" and imho, sometimes you need to break with conventions. And RDRII already broke its own theme, by allowing Charles and Sadie to get away (while John alone paid the price)
I liked that milton always played it straight with the gang and im glad you mentioned that, Milton was honest with the gang and never fed them false promises, Ross literally killed a man who gave up his life to assist him
Execpt he did killed hosea but one again. His POV he already tired of the gang bs doing more stupid shit. Dutch led hosea to his death. Wasn't Hosea the one thinking robbing a bank again was a terrible idea?
Honestly, the story is about villains VS villains, lawfull villains hunting down outlaws villains. But Milton was somewhat human in all of this, remember he even let Molly go because she didn't say a word on the gang. He said "I got to let her go" because If he was such a monster, he could just k1ll her.
Milton was run down by the stubborness of Arthur and Dutch. His first few encounters with the gang shows how willing he was to let everyone but Dutch go free. In Saint Denis, Milton shoots Hosea as a final warning to the gang, and when he next finds where they are hidden, Milton has lost all hope for the gang. His patience and mercy collapses, giving way to his sadism and anger as where before he was above threatening Arthur directly when near a child, now Milton only gives a count of ten before shooting up the house holding the gang.
As for capturing Abigail to be tried for murder, that would explain how she managed to escape Saint Denis during the bank robbery. Also, Abigail would have valuable information on the gang so it makes sense that there's a bunch of protection
This is my thoughts on Ross’s corruption and evil and dissing the saying of Milton “Just doing his job” Milton also did horrible stuff like torturing Mac after a time he knew he would stay loyal to Dutch but still killed him instead of putting him in prison or having him be executed in a more lawful way. Fired a machine gun in a shack with women and a child inside the shack he knew they were there because he had visited the gang’s camp multiple times and knew what people were there he even saw Jack directly one time and still fired the minigun without a warning or hesitation at all. He also said he enjoyed killing Hosea and Lenny which yes he completed the job of killing 2 very important gang members you are supposed to fill fullfilled and accomplished yes but he got sadistic pleasure out of their deaths which is totally different from feeling well at completing a job that you wanted to complete for years. So yeah Milton is not doing it “By the law that's BS. But he still has morals that Ross doesn't have He mostly talks with the gang with the utmost respect, unlike Ross who is just a prick to John for the whole game and treats him like a robot disregarding the fact that the guys he ordered John to kill people he called family and wanting him to kill or capture the gang members with no hesitation or remorse like John never cared about them. Also, Ross has John do all his dirty work by unlawfully kidnapping Abigail and Jack and forcing John to capture Javier, Bill, and Dutch, Milton can have informants but he doesn't order them to kill or do all his dirty work in capturing the criminals no they can help like informing about the gang’s hideout, talking about the gang’s plan etc Ross does the complete opposite. Milton gave Dutch 2 warnings before going psycho mode and he also wouldn't have done all these things if it wasn't for Cornwall pressuring him to give results. Ross captured John’s family without warning he just did and forced John to do all his work for him. Milton also gave the gang 2 warnings and 3 whole days to turn their life around and if they helped Milton they would have a new life which I believe is true and Milton is going to stick with his word. Ross says this to John but is nothing but a lie Ross says to John that this is his chance for redemption but then kills him as soon as he reunites with his family like just 3 weeks later. I'm saying that Milton is not a good person not in the slightest but he’s much of a better person than Ross. Milton is the personification of ends justify the means while Ross is the personification of Corruption. Hope this gives you a bigger understanding on both of their characters.
Red Dead Redemption II gives great insight into Ross’ character. I think that had Milton lived, he would’ve blackmailed John just the same. Whether he would’ve killed him, I don’t know but I don’t believe he would’ve let Arthur go scot-free if he turned Dutch in because of his high bounty. Look at how much more ruthless Micah became and how big of a menace he was. Milton never would’ve taken that chance. I do believe that what Ross did was under orders and not out of personal pleasure. Both of them followed orders. Both of them were ruthless and were killed for their duty. However the biggest difference is how they were both perceived by the audience - Milton appeared reasonable when Ross appeared to be a scumbag from the beginning. But in fact, they both were guided by very powerful men (Leviticus Cornwall and Nate Johns who arguably had more influence and authority than Cornwall.
@@BoiAlt He shot old Man in a back in front his friends? He took part or at least agreed with genocide of natives? He tortured wounded guy? He shot with a fucking gattling gun to the shed where women and kid were hiding?
Glad Milton is being accurately disscussed. Not just seeing him as a antagonist on the side of the law. A good but utterly brutal man who meets the Dutch Van Der Linde Gangs own brutality. Personally I see Milton took Abigail as a tool as she worked as a agent for the Pinkerton agency.
Ross is legit my favorite character because of how he makes the player hate him by proxy of the story and not really his character itself. He has seen where mercy and grace gets you in the case with Milton so has disregarded that idea. He also doesn’t sugar coat how nasty he can be and doesn’t try to make himself seem larger than the whole thing just understands his place in it all. He also apparently was a good man as evidence by NPC who aren’t outlaws say. I love how to us he is a nasty antagonist but from the “moral” perspective Ross is the hero .
Yeah, I think the reason of why the pikertons don't know about John is because he became absent for 1 year and probably was the bridge of time where Milton and his crew started looking at Dutch's gang
I think that when it comes down to it, Milton truly believes in his ideals of a “lawful civil society devoid of outlaw gangs”. Meanwhile, Ross just simply wants to enhance his career and doesn’t care how many people he needs to step on in order to do so.
Milton isn’t a bad guy he’s a saint compared to the gang y’all are just seeing him trough the eyes of the protagonist the gang are murderers and thief’s don’t forget that and he also gave them multiple chances of fleeing but they didn’t take them
I honestly think Milton would have held up his end of the deal he could have killed all of them multiple times the reason he got vindictive post the bank is because they killed so many of his men. As for capturing Abigail I think he saw that as a moral victory sorta thing “oh I’m not going to get Dutch but I got a van Der lin” kinda thing because if she wasn’t guilty of murder (which she could have been) she was certainly guilty of conspiring to commit (and because gang laws in the uk also guilty by association)
Milton wasn’t a good man but he did at least seem to understand that Dutch manipulated these guys and gave them a few chances to walk away. I do think he would’ve kept true to his word and mostly became so furious at them refusing his offers every single time. Ross is a self righteous, elitist pig who thinks being a lawman makes him above others and justifies everything he does. He didn’t just lie and break his promise to John, he tried to have John’s whole family executed for his crimes.
Milton is a perfect example of “the bad guy in someone’s story” because most of the public would be pleased wit his actions of trying to save others lives but the gang would see him as evil
Well, I think if Milton had survived the second game and the other guy had died I think Milton would still make John do the dirty walk, but I won’t think he hold his family hostage, but maybe he would but I also think he would’ve kept his and not attack, JohnI think someone should do it. What if agent Milton had survived and the other guy did not in the second game?
Milton seems nicer but is considerably more incompetent than his partner Ross. And just to make it clear, Ross didn't hold anything personal against John, he was just following orders from Nate Johns to wipe out the remaining outlaws, Van der Linde gang leftovers between them. It does make sense to use an outlaw to take out other outlaws to stop more innocent lifes being taken away. Maybe an arrest would've been more fair, but in the end he finished what Milton couldn't.
oh, i think it's a mix. He had a dislike for John because of his affiliations. But Nate Johns is the one that put Ross into action, that gave him a reason to use John Marston.
Would be cool to have a sort of L.A Noire type of game but with Edgar Ross when he was young. Seeing how he rose the ranks amongst the Pinkerton Detectives prior to hunting the Van Der Linde gang.
I remember when RDR2 first came out and after learning how things played out, I thought John was always doomed one way or another. I always thought if American Venom didn't happen, Fordham and Ross were going to send Micah to hunt down Dutch's gang, which would've included John and his family, and in the game when you confront him, Micah mentioned he's going to go after Abigail and Jack after killing John, so if Ross didn't come knocking at the Marston family's door, Micah will, and even if John didn't go after Micah, law enforcement was likely going to pay him a visit eventually anyway considering how many crimes John committed.
Milton to me seems to relay on intimidation and force. His offers to the gang were merely him trying to intimidate the gang into surrender. He knew Arthur was loyal to Dutch and so thought by relaying the message through Arthur it might scare the gang, the second was him directly riding into camp as a an act of pure intimidation. Showing how he has no fear of them and exuding control through his ability to ride into their home and try and scare them, showing how he KNOWS where they are and try to scare them into surrender. Milton shooting Hosea was another act of intimidation. He went for the oldest and weakest member to try and show his power which shows Milton as the coward he is. He shot and killed Hosea, who is not only unarmed but also old and when he attacks Arthur who is sick with TB. The only times Milton seems to take an active part is when he KNOWS he has the upper hand regardless. Ross has seen what force can do. It ultimately got Milton killed so Ross goes a more tactful if distasteful route. He kidnaps Abigail and Jack, after seeing how effective it was when Milton did it so then he can make John do his bidding. Ross believes he is doing right but Ross embody's the worst of civilisation. Enforcing ones will on another to live by the code he dictates while being exempt from consequences. When he goes after John at the end it''s because he was ordered to so some governor can be re-elected. The first time it was personal when he had John hunt down Bill, Javier and Dutch, the second time he was contracted to. I believe Ross knew he would be back for John and just wanted to let him off so then he could come back and finish the job. Ross' distain for others trying to live their lives is obvious from how he talks to John and even though he admits several faults and even saying he's vindictive, he says it like it's something funny, quaint. However, Ross had no intention of letting John go as right from the start I believe Ross knew about the governors re-election campaign and saw it as a chance to gain some glory by bringing in the the Van der Linde gain or what remains of them. So he has John do his dirty work so then there's only John to remove. But one thing always stuck with me, one thing Ross said which seemed to foreshadow his own demise. "We all pay for what we have done Mr Marston." Ross probably said that to try and sound like a moral person but the thing is Ross thought he was immune from that. Turns out NO ONE is. We all pay, it depends on if we pay through money, time or blood.
Well, Milton gave a lot of chances to the gang to deliver them Dutch, a chance to be spared. And Ross wanted to kill everyone at the beginning, sent John to make his dirty job, and not respecting his contract
Man the set up so much for another prequel. I dont care what other peoplel have said about an rdr3, could bery easily do a "stories" style game on someone near milton
Milton didn’t experience the gang like we did, his experience was people murdered and robbed over nothing and some money, seeing these vagabonds living free without any consequences and continuing to do their trade, I can understand the law here.
Milton did fair law to chase and pursue the gang eventually killing many of them and causing disorganization in the group. Ross did unfair botched attempts often illegal, or treacherous. although he did. He was the one who killed John.
There were no actions Milton did throughout the story of Red Dead redemption 2 that made me believe he was going to go back on his word of letting them go had they turned on Dutch, the problem is the gang was too set in their ways they didn't want to change. Milton on three different occasions tried to give them a chance to get out and even at lakay lake he tried to give them a chance to come out until they didn't come out then opened fire. And with the Jack argument from their point of view Jack could be taught to just do all these criminal things that they're trying to stop, that or tried to prevent revenge from the child which Red Dead 3 would be if it were Jack's story it would be Red Dead revenge I would accept no other title.
I always knew there wouldn’t be an escape from the law. RDR showed us the feds will catch up with you eventually. At times I feel like Milton either had a honor code or didn’t like resorting to violence unless it was deemed a necessity. Yet I sit on the fence, thinking he was just playing good cop and Ross’ ruthless behavior came from watching his superior get killed while trying to take this gang down. This is why I love this game, even the antagonists are morally grey enough that you consider them good or bad
Ross is no different than Abraham Reyes. They preach about justice but all they care about behind the scenes is fame and fortune. Reyes is a dictator no different than Allende and Ross is a thug no different than Dutch. That is the point. Savagery always takes a new form. Ross is a savage in civilization.
basically milton had a lot more code and actually believed in what he did while ross was much more realistic and sadistic with it like milton would do things out of honour and code unless something REALLY needed to be done like he told arthur who the rat was and he also let one of the members they roughed up which was molly leave even tho she didn't speak a word and although he does execute some people on the spot instead of the way he should he was probably doing it to irritate the gang and get more of them down the line or being influenced by ross just like dutch was influenced by micah and honestly milton was still very sadistic but he actually believed that what he did was the right thing while ross knew what they were doing was wrong but prefered it towards just no order
Bruh so Edgar Ross went to John after 8 years wtf that don’t make sense if he was spying on him in 1899 why would he wait so long this shit don’t make sense 😂
I think of Milton as a foil to Dutch, more than anything else. While Dutch wants a world that's wild and free, Milton wants a world that's ordered and civilized. Both of them stoop to ruthless extremes in order to create the world they want. The only real difference is Milton is completely honest about who he is and what he wants. I don't think there's a moment where Milton ever truly lies about what he's doing. The only time I think he could have been lying was about Mac, though he could easily have been taunting Arthur with the truth as well. He is what Dutch fears: civilization making his way of life obsolete, with no emotion or reservation.
I always had the idea if Ross had bit the bullet and if it was Milton, he would’ve kept his end of the deal with John. John (least the high honor) does plenty of good on his path on killing/capturing the rest of the gang. Ross was a bitter, hateful, scum of a human being who enjoyed the death of anyone he was paid to handle. Milton didn’t want to kill but Dutch had pushed his luck far enough. John would have made up for ending the problem, and seeing how John wanted to just raise his family right and live in a society... Milton would have been pleased.
I feel with miltion he was tired of giving this gang a chance over and over and over again, and since he knew he couldn't ger through to them, they had to die, The public execution of hosea was shown that he was done being the nice guy, and to prove to Dutch, he wasn't so smart after all Ross, on the other hand, didn't care if Jack or Abigail or Uncle or John died they were the last of the gang that needed to die. Ross member had the slightest thing to want to help John. It was literally just an entire game to make his career look much much much better. As hit and Bing alone, gunman, who killed the biggest gang member.
It was an entire game to make NATE JOHNS campaign for governor look good. Nate JOhns tells Ross to cut down on crime, and this leads to ROss nabbing John to do the dirty work. Milton was getting tired of giving the Van der Linde Gang chances over and over... and Ross was with him during that. Ross, at RDR1's time, has been pusehd ove rthe "give them a chance" edge long ago. Ross didn't care if Jack, ABigail, John or UNcle died... neither dir MIlton, when he had his Agents hose down the hut in which they hid with automatic weaponry! Milton was passed being nice. ANd Ross knew: THey could'Ve killed the Van der Linde Gang at Clemens Point, probably already at Horseshoe. Milton would have survived, less people, including COrnwall would have died... why take the risk again?
@undertakernumberone1 Yes, he gave them multiple chance to give up and hand him over. He was tired of looking like a fool for being civil and trying to help them multiple times having more lives die to the mad man Dutch. Ross would have just blasted them or gotten them to kill each other, making it look like it was his work.
@undertakernumberone1 besides that the story would have been a lot more different if they just shot Arthur during the time of Jack and his fishing he was civil. If it was Ross, he would have cornered Arthur into helping him like John We don't know if he would have kept his word, but from how he sounded, he was fine with letting the people he didn't know leave and start anew and said it in lakay Also, compared to John, Arthur really had nothing to lose. He had no family. Dutch was the only person that he had so his thing. Was to inform them that they were coming.
Milton offered a gang of criminals their freedom more than once and was working within legal boundaries. Edgar Ross sent an entire army to John’s house after John did what he wanted.
Ross learned from Milton. He saw what Milton did and how it didn't work and learned that outlaws can't be trusted. I think this lends itself to the theory about abigail being the 2nd rat which i kinda believe but if not that i do think micah was a rat just to try and get the cash and bluster his own reputation before he turncoat
Milton was just doing his job as he honorably can gave Arthur his word he wouldn't swing by turning in Dutch and giving the gang 3 days to run off by just having Dutch alone maybe Hosea too since he was well known but Milton tends to play fair.
Milton: Reveals just about everything he is going to do but is merciful in some ways. Ross: A manipulative liar that uses others as a tool. Who knows truly of Milton did lie about Micah because in death, he truly is the fate of the gang.
everything they did seemed justifiable to me. ofc its a video game so they gotta paint narratives but realistically in that time period, the law *mostly* wanted to just maintain peace. if the people youre hunting are known theives and murderers and have been for 20 years, you sure as shit better fight fire with fire because thats the only way youre going to get them everyone associated with the gang had conscious decisions to stay or not and to bring jack to an actual safe place but no. they put him and themselves in harms way so then they gotta pay for it. even the way they treated marston is justifable, he never reaped what he sowed from his actions so he had to face the consequences and then some. there are no storybook endings in life. dont get expect a happy ending if youre going to actively choose to commit actions that offend more than the law
The irony is john was the first man to see Dutch true colors but he fell for Ross lies about him leting him go after getting Dutch ,while Arthur fell for Dutch lies But he would never fell for miltons or even ross if had the chance.
I think that Milton, for all of his many flaws, did take his iob seriously and wanted to get it done as efficiently as possible. Ross was more like Zapp Brannigan and willing to brute force his way through, no matter the cost, no matter the harm to both sides, as long as he came out on top.
Both were crooked on some level. Offering deals made sense logically. When that didn't work, Milton would resort to full fledged assault, pressure that when applied, eventually crippled the gang. Even if it got Milton killed. Ross basically just got to do cleanup for what Milton largely accomplished, and took his sweet time at it. 12 years to be exact, but still took the credit. Despite not wanting to get his hands dirty, Ross ate it in the end by having his half assed retirement cut short by a 19 year old.
They’re villains because the protagonist are criminals. If we could see the pain and damage we wreak throughout the storyc Arthur, John and the van der linden gang has earned its death several times over. Offering them any clemency was a kindness they took and returned it, by brutalizing several communities and continuing to kill hundreds of lawmen. Of course, a lawman is gonna know all this and realizing he has the chance to kill the man responsible for it? He’s gonna take it and all morality be damned
Let's not forget that the Pinkertons are "Technically" the good guys. Dutch and the gang have robbed and killed for decades. Milton was more than justified going after them. We only see the gang as heros because the story wants us too. Its not until chapter 6, when Arthur and John decide too change
6:09 in Red Dead Redemption 1 Nate Johns is running for governor and is promising to cut down on crime. To do this he has Ross extort Marston into doing their bidding
@OmaewamouShindeiru-oy7vi I’m confused what do you mean? Nate Johns is running for governor and has promised to cut down crime. Ross extorts John do their job cause he has leverage
@OmaewamouShindeiru-oy7vi It is the reason that drives Ross into action. The reason he is choosing Marston? Probably a combination of things... Convenience: Marston is expandable, and so he doens't have to risk himself or any agents (pretty justified after RDR2). Revenge for Milton, to get a nice feather in his cap for wiping out the last leftovers of the Van der Linde Gang, and the knowledge, that John is a one man army that can get the job done, because he killed Micah Bell. Probably also helped by the fact that he has family that allows him to put pressure on John.
Because of what I suspect it's caused by a bug. Everytime Arthur or John uses a bandana, the beard disappears till the bandana is removed. I think the same happens with Uncle at that mission, since his beard only disappears once the gang have to put the bandana. So I suppose the bandana is there, just invisible, showing that cursed thing Uncle is without his beard.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Milton is a good cop while Ross is bad cop. Milton was lying all time and way too many people have eaten it up.
I like to think Milton, despite his sadistic tendencies, tried to uphold some code of honor. He didn't immediately try to kill Arthur and the rest of the gang and offered them 3 chances at running away. Ross didn't even try to hide what a vindictive bastard he was.
Milton didn’t kill molly and he only gave them one chance
@@XtraOrdinar-y 1)with Arthur as he would tell the camp 2)when he went to the camp directly 3) at St Denis bank
I like to think Milton would uphold his end of the bargain. It's kind of boring to make Fordham and Milton like Ross.
@Rdr2449 Did you just completely blackout the part where Milton and Ross march into Clemen's Point to tell everyone to leave and live and normal life? That was the chance he gave them. Pay attention.
@@XtraOrdinar-y🤦🏻♂️
That moment when you realise Milton died thinking Johns name was actually Rip Van Winkle
I think the got his name when John got arrested
I get the "haha funny" thing about this, but given Milton's response to it, He knew John was bullshitting him and that John responding with "Rip van Winkle" was just his own way of saying "Go Fuck Yourself" to him.
@@tylerwisner8682But it would be funny to entertain the idea that maybe he did, I mean I just played through that part yesterday and Milton didn’t seem to be fazed at all by John, to the point where I wasn’t sure if Milton knew it was sarcasm or not.
@@FrtordelsBut would they even know his name after capturing him? The fact that Milton didn’t know who he was shows that John had likely flown under the radar in the eyes of the law, and it’s not like they could DNA test him to see who he was in 1899. John could easily have given them another fake name and they could really do nothing except maybe try torturing it out of him if they thought he was lying, such was the challenges of an age before DNA databases and social security numbers and driver’s licenses.
You know come to think of it, if John hadn’t been captured at that bank he might’ve not been hunted down later, but would he have left the gang if they hadn’t left him for dead?
Considering John was later hunted down by Ross, and the fact that John was arrested, I highly doubt.
Milton was a bad guy doing his job right.
Ross was an even worse guy doing his job wrong but still getting paid.
Milton was never a bad guy. He was doing his job in general as an officer of the state. Wanna be technical we are the bad people. However after Milton was killed it sent Ross on a diffrent path and he became corrupt after realizing there is no hope for scum
I’d say Milton was a neutral guy doing a bad job well. When you take a step back and really think about it, Milton saying he enjoyed killing the Van Der Linde members really isn’t that bad considering how awful most of them were. How was he supposed to know Hosea wasn’t that bad a guy? He was one of the founding members of the gang.
@@star4326milton also warned the entire gang to leave before they all got hunted by the pinkertons in chapter 3, showing some level of good
Federal agents and Pinkertons are no different, both are organized to protect property over people. Both were utter psychopaths
People need to understand the differences being
Bad vs Evil they're huge differences.
Considering how many chances Milton gave to the gang, he practically saint.
Plus he was even honest he would chase them after doing more crimes later like giving them a three day start
The reason why I believe that Ross was so brutal in RDR 1 was because he learnt from Milton’s mistakes being that Milton gave the gang chance after chance to turn themselves but they refused so he when caught John he knew from the start that Ross was going to take out John
it might also have to do with the fact that, well, the gang is responsible for Agent Milton's death. He was Edgar's mentor, to some extent at least. So he might've seen taking out the last high profile Van der Linde members as revenge for Milton. ANd that included John.
For Milton, taking out the Van der Linde Gang was, at least at first, solely "professional", and he handles it pragmatically: He knows that, without Dutch as unifying force, the gang would splinter apart. Some will return to crime, like Micah, probably Arthur, maybe Hosea, etc. And without the gang, they'd be much easier to hunt down and take out. The rest, for all he cares, can go and live happily as civilians. Without Dutch to drive them on, they are harmless. And if Dutch gets turned in, he doesn't have to get into a shootout with a highly armed, highly competent bunch of outlaws.
Also has to be rememebred: Agent Ross is set on the whole "Hunt down Williamson!" thing by Nate Johns for his electoral campaign. Nate Johns wants to "clean up" as to be elected governor, and puts Ross at Williamson. A nice feather in Ross' cap.
Ross handles it by sending out John. Two birds, one stone (or rather, 4 birds, one stone). John takes out Williamson, and in the process also nets Escuella. THen, Dutch returns... Three of the last hgih profile members... And finally, John himself. Revenge for Milton and a job well dne.
No, he didn’t learn from Milton’s mistake, he learnt from Milton’s own tactics
Personally I feel like Milton would’ve let them live their lives peacefully if they’d taken his offer. Milton is a direct reflection of society itself. He is accommodating and respectful, but if you don’t play by his rules he will hunt you to the ends of the earth and the end of time. I feel Milton would’ve let the rest of the gang go because it would be the civilized thing to do, not to break a deal.
Ross was motivated purely by greed and pride. He most likely never intended to let John live. John was the only person on earth who could contest the idea that Edgar Ross had tracked and killed the remaining outlaws himself. John was always the final loose end Ross had to clean up at some point.
In rdr2 Emmet Granger was apparently allowed to live a peaceful life and given a bit of land because of a deal with the government. The only government agents we see in RDR2 are Milton and Ross so it’s possible that Granger took their offer up and was spared.
@@JosephMaddoxJoyceyou believe emmet Granger?
@@Jose-ue1ss In this case yes. Granger talks about how tough he is, but as soon as Arthur starts threatening him he comes clean about being a government witness, also Theodore writes on the back of Emmet Grangers picture “Federal pardon - WHY?” So he’s probably being completely honest about being a rat.
I don’t believe that for a second. The Pinkertons were and are cartoonishly evil. Milton isn’t better than Ross, he’s simply nicer
@@simoneidson21 they were cartoonishly evil true, but they absolutely followed the letter of the law most of the time. The vast majority of their killing was allowed by the government.
You can really see the big difference between Milton and Ross during the first time you meet them in RDR2.
Milton finds a wanted criminal taking a child out on a fishing trip, announces his arrival and approaches them unarmed, informs Arthur of his intentions and explains his reasons, offers Arthur an exchange for his freedom, informs Arthur of Mac's passing, remains calm and collected even after Arthur shows aggression, threatens the adult and only the adult, walks away calmly.
Ross finds a wanted criminal taking a child on a fishing trip, approaches them with a shotgun in hand and says absolutely nothing, aims the gun when Arthur shows the slightest bit of anger after finding out his friend died, threatens not the guilty adult, but the innocent powerless child who doesn't understand what's going on, leaves.
Milton is honest, calm, offers mercy even to the undeserving, and is collected even when threatened by someone who could easily overpower him, and does it all for his country.
Ross is egotistical, smug, unforgiving, quick to intimidate, and gets off from talking down on those he knows he can beat, and he does it all for fame and fortune.
Perfect.
Maybe just because I’m stupid but personally I trust Milton would have kept his word early on. I say it was all business with him unlike Ross. I do believe that’s the biggest difference between the two.
I agree. Milton probably would’ve let them live normal lives, he says it himself “I enjoy society, flaws and all”. He probably would’ve let them live simply because it would’ve been the civilized thing to do.
@@star4326i still think he would have gotten the main gunslingers of the gang put in jail. on the beach with arthur he says “you have my word you won’t swing” while i do think he would hold true to that part, i still think he would have had arthur put away
Yes they're different
Bad vs Evil
That's their differences.
When I think about it, Ross may have reflected on the way Milton gave the Van Der Lind gang chances and decided to not make the same mistake by being sparing. I like that for the narrative of the overall series.
Yeah the gang killed him in the end
Thing is Ross watched Milton he learned from him he learned what to do and not to do even before the start of the second game then in the first he used all he had learned from the gang and his former boss
Unfortunate that Ross took the route of traitor instead of Milton’s. At least had Milton taken John family, he would at least kept his promise. And not turn on John after.
@@elperrodelautumo7511I doubt that because Milton was fine with arresting Abigail with false charges
@@XtraOrdinar-yyeah l mean Milton kidnapped Abigail in the end he is a bad dude
I like to think Milton would uphold his end of the bargain. It's kind of boring to make Fordham and Milton like Ross.
@@RyanTheDark Milton always said that he wanted just Dutch, Hosea only died to prove that he was willing to kill anyone Dutch cared about to get to Dutch
The real problem was Miltons atrocious haircut
Nearly bald man with a high taper fade
For real
@KeyUploadsim going to key your car
@KeyUploads with the hat on that is, without it, he looks like Mr clean but with a strand of hair like that one kid from cocomelon
Belive it or not those were the hair styles back then
Controversial opinion: It’s totally understandable why Ross betrayed John in the end, especially after RDR2. If gameplay during missions is canon, which it probably isn’t but whatever, the Van der linde gang is responsible for killing *hundreds* of people including dozens and dozens of Pinkertons. Ross probably lost a lot of friends, as well as his mentor Milton. Many of the people killed by the gang were totally innocent, like the girl Dutch killed in Blackwater. Yeah Ross is an asshole, but I can understand not just letting things slide. John doesn’t just get to live a normal happy life after everything he’s done. His kill count is probably in the thousands, he’s like a walking 9/11, there need to be consequences.
There’s something called a “witness protection” which was promised to John in a way
@@KingAlternatewitness protection doesn't protect you if a different group is tipped off, or the practice isn't fully developed. John and his family did absolutely nothing that indicated witness protection. Not to mention John is still an outlaw meaning he is exempt from any form of legal protection
@@Matt_History The agency promised him and his family protection categorically, if he hunted down his gang members
@@KingAlternate that's not how witness protection works, get that GTA V misconception out of here.
The goal of witness protection is to allow people to safely testify in court against someone or a group of people if doing so would put them in danger otherwise. There is no witness protection if the courts are not involved!
Michael in GTA V wasn't in witness protection either, that's just what he told Lester, Trevor and Franklin to try to cover up what he actually did. In reality he took a deal with a corrupt FIB agent: Michael would fake his death, Trevor would be killed, burried in Michael's place and signed off by Dave to be lost somewhere in the federal prison system while Brad would go to prison to bear witness in front of both the law and criminal world to this line of events. Dave gets the glory, Michael gets a new life for himself.
But Brad was shot instead and Trevor ran off, which screwed up the entire plan and set the events of the entire game into motion.
@@Dawid23_Gamer I know Michael wasn’t in witness protection, get that word outta here before DarkViperAU comes in and smashes us all!
Milton isn’t an awful man, he does questionable things but gave the gang several chances to give up Dutch and live their lives in peace, even in the end I didn’t hate Milton I was mainly just happy to see him go for Hosea.
You were happy to see him take out Hosea?
@@drysoup3017 nah that aint what he said
He gave them one chance. If there was any chance at all.
@@drysoup3017I mean on the surface hosea was a notorious criminal and founding member of a marauding gang for 25 ish years
Dont forget Milton let the members go after he interrogated them despite not getting info. Many often forget Milton let Molly go after not getting the info he needed despite "sweating her".
They only started dying after Milton died and Ross took over, even going so far as to torture Strauss to death. This gives me reason to believe that whether or not he was lying about letting them go they have Dutch in, he still had somewhat of a heart whereas Ross enjoyed torture and instilling fear. As also showing his sadistic tendencies with not just torture but that joke about Abigail dying in prison in RDR1. Milton never wasted time with unnecessarily sadism. The closest being him telling Arthur about his "mercy kill" which arguably was the truth.
Anyway youre my fav red dead channel and you earned a subscribe despite my depression usually holding me back from doing so for other channels.
Milton let 2 Members go: Molly, because she didn't have anythin of value and she isn't really anyone useful as far as they can see. She was Dutch's lover, nothing more as far as the Pinkerton's know. They basically couldn't nail her for anything, except for "running with the gang". And if they let her go, she might proof useful in other ways.
ANd MIcah, because he would supply information to him.
Also, Ross is "just" an agent. He didn't take over the Pinkerton Detective Agency. It might have been under Ross' orders how Strauss was treated... or it might have been someone else.
Also, anyone remembering how he shot Hosea in cold blood?
@@undertakernumberone1 Hosea was a deadly outlaw who had also shot many others in cold blood. Ross was replaced as the head of the field team for the vanderline gang sense milton was killed.
Lenny and Hosea were killed Milton was alive
Milton was the harbinger of doom. Ross was doom.
Good way to put it
Milton is willing to let a group of Outlaws free to live a normal life if it means sacrificing their snake's head so to speak
John buying property 10 feet outside of Blackwater and going to Bank just down street from the Bureau didn't help either
Yeah he knew it too when Abigail first mentioned it. Her leaving him made him feel like he'd rather go down with his family rather then hiding out alone by himself as long as he could. Johns ending was the best ending because all the wrong he's done had to catch up to him at some point. He died protecting his family.
I think that we only really see these two from the Outlaws point of view. One must remember that in a traditional western these two are the good guys. If you think about it the cycle of murder degrades everyone involved. Milton's death likely changed Ross for the worse in the same way as John's death turned Jack into the killer his father never wanted him to be. One can assume that at some point Jack was also killed by someone avenging Ross.
Probably as a very old man due to several theories saying otherwise, mainly the book one.
But Yeah i wouldn’t be suprised he is shot, just not very likely with how things are put.
@@nordicgaming5429 I saw the ending as a grim message of "Things change, but violence is forever." In another game it would be the beginning, not the end.
@@theprelate4219 I seriously doubt that Jack was hunted down by somebody wanting to avenge Ross...
Ross was killed in Mexico, in a border region which, in the game, is called out, iirc, evne in 1911 as a.... turmultous area with a banditry issue.
Jack never gives his name. THe best the the Beauro or anyone would ahve to work on would be his description, and if he shaves and cuts his hair, that's already less useful.
"Ross was killed in Mexico! Last I know, some young lad tried to find him... Never saw him again. Said he was from the BoI!"
Well, while the BoI, if they even could investigate in Nuevo Paraiso, would know that the part that he was from the Bureau was a lie, they might as well believe that, considering the fame Ross has, he wanted to meet a RL hero or something like that.
And then? Maybe they got robbed by a bunch of bandidos! Ross got killed and the lad kidnapped for hwatever reason. If we had a Ledger article on it, it wouldn't surprise me if it was framed as "Edgar Ross - Hero dies a Hero's death! Famed former BoI agent Edgar Ross has been found murdered in Nuevo Paraiso, at the mexican coast of the San Luis River. He was shot multiple times. A young man, who had been looking for him, is disappeared. It seems to be the logical conclusion that the young man had found Agent Ross and the two had been attacked by mexican outlaws. Ross, judging by the guns near him, had tried to fight back, most likely to defend his young acquaintance, and was killed. It is unknown what happened to the other man."
And that's ignoring the issue of Ross' corpse potentially falling into the river and just disappearing.
And until news of that move back to anyone wanting to avenge him, days, if not weeks would have passed. The trail would be cold before the search even starts.
This is a pre-internet, pre-TV time.said
@@undertakernumberone1 Ross was a Pinkerton, and the Pinkertons were a cut above what passed for a detective at the time. I doubt his collegues would just let the matter go. Jack either left a witness in Ross's wife or he became the sort of man who murdered her as well. It is entirely possible that Jack got away with it but that does not make for a good story and Red Dead is above all things a story. It is unlikely in any case that Jack lived a peaceful life. Given that this is the Grand Theft Auto universe the 1920's and 1930's are not going to be easy times to live through. That is the golden age of the Mafia. If this game gets another installment do not expect Marston to survive. For Jack to grow old and die in bed surrounded by family breaks the theme regardless of how possible it is.
@@theprelate4219 If the game gets another installment, there is no indication we go any further than 1914. If we get another Red Dead, I want it to have nothing to do with anyoen connected to the Van der Linde Gang. I want a game of its own taking place in the 1870s. Or, if we really need to to connect it to the Van der Linde Gang: "Heigh days" in the early 1890s. Honeslty "end of the west" used too much might become stale.
And if that is the GTA universe (which is a bit doubtful, since we have California and New York instead of San Andreas and Liberty City), then Jack wrote the novel "Red Dead", as seen in GTA V.
Ross WAS a Pinkerton. By the time he retired, he was an Agent of the BoI.
Jack left 3 Wittnesses: The BoI Agent in Blackwater, Ross' wife and Ross' Brother. However, again, none of them know his name. All he has to do is shave and put on some other clothes. If they even assume that he had done anything, considering, again, it happened in Mexico... In an area where banditry still was rampant.
They have nothing to follow on after Ross' brother can tell them "I told that young fella that Edgar was hunting ducks down at the river."
About the heart times coming: I mean, depending on what you do, Jack can have a load of gold bars and the money made by the hunting of the legendary animals etc. He can be pretty much set.
Also: Screw the theme. So often I'Ve heard "but that's for the theme!" and imho, sometimes you need to break with conventions. And RDRII already broke its own theme, by allowing Charles and Sadie to get away (while John alone paid the price)
I liked that milton always played it straight with the gang and im glad you mentioned that, Milton was honest with the gang and never fed them false promises, Ross literally killed a man who gave up his life to assist him
Ross seems like a pure evil man. He made John do his dirty work, he shot him 'like a dog', and was willing to do the same to Jack.
Rickets teaching to jack saves jack from Ross in their duel.
Milton was an asshole but was fair with giving them chances to run.
Ross was everything wrong with bureaucracy.
The main antagonist in the Red Dead series is the same antagonist which plagues us all: The passage of time, and the changing of eras.
Milton was fine with taking the gang down and letting the others go. Ross did the opposite
Execpt he did killed hosea but one again. His POV he already tired of the gang bs doing more stupid shit. Dutch led hosea to his death. Wasn't Hosea the one thinking robbing a bank again was a terrible idea?
Honestly, the story is about villains VS villains, lawfull villains hunting down outlaws villains. But Milton was somewhat human in all of this, remember he even let Molly go because she didn't say a word on the gang. He said "I got to let her go" because If he was such a monster, he could just k1ll her.
Milton was run down by the stubborness of Arthur and Dutch. His first few encounters with the gang shows how willing he was to let everyone but Dutch go free.
In Saint Denis, Milton shoots Hosea as a final warning to the gang, and when he next finds where they are hidden, Milton has lost all hope for the gang.
His patience and mercy collapses, giving way to his sadism and anger as where before he was above threatening Arthur directly when near a child, now Milton only gives a count of ten before shooting up the house holding the gang.
As for capturing Abigail to be tried for murder, that would explain how she managed to escape Saint Denis during the bank robbery. Also, Abigail would have valuable information on the gang so it makes sense that there's a bunch of protection
This is my thoughts on Ross’s corruption and evil and dissing the saying of Milton “Just doing his job” Milton also did horrible stuff like torturing Mac after a time he knew he would stay loyal to Dutch but still killed him instead of putting him in prison or having him be executed in a more lawful way. Fired a machine gun in a shack with women and a child inside the shack he knew they were there because he had visited the gang’s camp multiple times and knew what people were there he even saw Jack directly one time and still fired the minigun without a warning or hesitation at all. He also said he enjoyed killing Hosea and Lenny which yes he completed the job of killing 2 very important gang members you are supposed to fill fullfilled and accomplished yes but he got sadistic pleasure out of their deaths which is totally different from feeling well at completing a job that you wanted to complete for years. So yeah Milton is not doing it “By the law that's BS. But he still has morals that Ross doesn't have He mostly talks with the gang with the utmost respect, unlike Ross who is just a prick to John for the whole game and treats him like a robot disregarding the fact that the guys he ordered John to kill people he called family and wanting him to kill or capture the gang members with no hesitation or remorse like John never cared about them. Also, Ross has John do all his dirty work by unlawfully kidnapping Abigail and Jack and forcing John to capture Javier, Bill, and Dutch, Milton can have informants but he doesn't order them to kill or do all his dirty work in capturing the criminals no they can help like informing about the gang’s hideout, talking about the gang’s plan etc Ross does the complete opposite. Milton gave Dutch 2 warnings before going psycho mode and he also wouldn't have done all these things if it wasn't for Cornwall pressuring him to give results. Ross captured John’s family without warning he just did and forced John to do all his work for him. Milton also gave the gang 2 warnings and 3 whole days to turn their life around and if they helped Milton they would have a new life which I believe is true and Milton is going to stick with his word. Ross says this to John but is nothing but a lie Ross says to John that this is his chance for redemption but then kills him as soon as he reunites with his family like just 3 weeks later. I'm saying that Milton is not a good person not in the slightest but he’s much of a better person than Ross. Milton is the personification of ends justify the means while Ross is the personification of Corruption. Hope this gives you a bigger understanding on both of their characters.
Your content is amazing, it would be really interesting to watch the same type of content but on topic of detroit become human
I got rdr1 a few months ago it was awesome I loved the part where Dutch escaped to Tahiti and shot John in the head and started dancing
Ha ha very funny
@@mehshutup3041 thank you
I honestly feel lucky getting to play 2 then 1. It's satisfying to get the whole story without an 8 year break in the middle.
Red Dead Redemption II gives great insight into Ross’ character. I think that had Milton lived, he would’ve blackmailed John just the same. Whether he would’ve killed him, I don’t know but I don’t believe he would’ve let Arthur go scot-free if he turned Dutch in because of his high bounty. Look at how much more ruthless Micah became and how big of a menace he was. Milton never would’ve taken that chance. I do believe that what Ross did was under orders and not out of personal pleasure. Both of them followed orders. Both of them were ruthless and were killed for their duty. However the biggest difference is how they were both perceived by the audience - Milton appeared reasonable when Ross appeared to be a scumbag from the beginning. But in fact, they both were guided by very powerful men (Leviticus Cornwall and Nate Johns who arguably had more influence and authority than Cornwall.
Milton was a flawed but honorable man while Ross was a vindictive evil little man.
What you mean honorable?
@@piotr3580 I misspoke. I meant that he gave the gang chances to escape. When the gang members were captured they were given proper sentences.
@@Trash_Cat21 That bitch was capping. If Dutch agreeded to be arrested Milton would kill everyone
@@piotr3580 How was he not honorable?
@@BoiAlt He shot old Man in a back in front his friends? He took part or at least agreed with genocide of natives? He tortured wounded guy? He shot with a fucking gattling gun to the shed where women and kid were hiding?
Glad Milton is being accurately disscussed. Not just seeing him as a antagonist on the side of the law. A good but utterly brutal man who meets the Dutch Van Der Linde Gangs own brutality. Personally I see Milton took Abigail as a tool as she worked as a agent for the Pinkerton agency.
Ross is legit my favorite character because of how he makes the player hate him by proxy of the story and not really his character itself. He has seen where mercy and grace gets you in the case with Milton so has disregarded that idea. He also doesn’t sugar coat how nasty he can be and doesn’t try to make himself seem larger than the whole thing just understands his place in it all. He also apparently was a good man as evidence by NPC who aren’t outlaws say. I love how to us he is a nasty antagonist but from the “moral” perspective Ross is the hero .
Looking forward to seeing Agent Milton in Red Dead Redemption 3
If it comes out
Andrew Milton should've been like his brother, the ranch hand of Proghorn ranch, Jim Milton. He would've been more successful.
Yeah, I think the reason of why the pikertons don't know about John is because he became absent for 1 year and probably was the bridge of time where Milton and his crew started looking at Dutch's gang
I was waiting for a video like this because I always wondered the same thing. Great video!
I think that when it comes down to it, Milton truly believes in his ideals of a “lawful civil society devoid of outlaw gangs”. Meanwhile, Ross just simply wants to enhance his career and doesn’t care how many people he needs to step on in order to do so.
You should make a video about what if Dutch and Hosea both died and Arthur became the leader
Milton isn’t a bad guy he’s a saint compared to the gang y’all are just seeing him trough the eyes of the protagonist the gang are murderers and thief’s don’t forget that and he also gave them multiple chances of fleeing but they didn’t take them
I honestly think Milton would have held up his end of the deal he could have killed all of them multiple times the reason he got vindictive post the bank is because they killed so many of his men. As for capturing Abigail I think he saw that as a moral victory sorta thing “oh I’m not going to get Dutch but I got a van Der lin” kinda thing because if she wasn’t guilty of murder (which she could have been) she was certainly guilty of conspiring to commit (and because gang laws in the uk also guilty by association)
I always thought Abigail had probably killed someone while escaping saint Denise.
Milton wasn’t a good man but he did at least seem to understand that Dutch manipulated these guys and gave them a few chances to walk away. I do think he would’ve kept true to his word and mostly became so furious at them refusing his offers every single time.
Ross is a self righteous, elitist pig who thinks being a lawman makes him above others and justifies everything he does. He didn’t just lie and break his promise to John, he tried to have John’s whole family executed for his crimes.
Milton is a perfect example of “the bad guy in someone’s story” because most of the public would be pleased wit his actions of trying to save others lives but the gang would see him as evil
Milton was right about thew gang being equally guilty, even the women (except jack obviously)
Well, I think if Milton had survived the second game and the other guy had died I think Milton would still make John do the dirty walk, but I won’t think he hold his family hostage, but maybe he would but I also think he would’ve kept his and not attack, JohnI think someone should do it. What if agent Milton had survived and the other guy did not in the second game?
Milton seems nicer but is considerably more incompetent than his partner Ross. And just to make it clear, Ross didn't hold anything personal against John, he was just following orders from Nate Johns to wipe out the remaining outlaws, Van der Linde gang leftovers between them. It does make sense to use an outlaw to take out other outlaws to stop more innocent lifes being taken away. Maybe an arrest would've been more fair, but in the end he finished what Milton couldn't.
oh, i think it's a mix. He had a dislike for John because of his affiliations. But Nate Johns is the one that put Ross into action, that gave him a reason to use John Marston.
Man, I love these 2 games and this kind of breakdown just make them even better. Cheers
Would be cool to have a sort of L.A Noire type of game but with Edgar Ross when he was young. Seeing how he rose the ranks amongst the Pinkerton Detectives prior to hunting the Van Der Linde gang.
milton gave a chance to the gang to fle ros manipulated and broke his promise
Milton was nothing more then brutal merciless mercenary
I really like how we sounded genuinely confused here 13:13
Micah was a Pinkerton agent the whole time
I remember when RDR2 first came out and after learning how things played out, I thought John was always doomed one way or another. I always thought if American Venom didn't happen, Fordham and Ross were going to send Micah to hunt down Dutch's gang, which would've included John and his family, and in the game when you confront him, Micah mentioned he's going to go after Abigail and Jack after killing John, so if Ross didn't come knocking at the Marston family's door, Micah will, and even if John didn't go after Micah, law enforcement was likely going to pay him a visit eventually anyway considering how many crimes John committed.
Milton to me seems to relay on intimidation and force. His offers to the gang were merely him trying to intimidate the gang into surrender. He knew Arthur was loyal to Dutch and so thought by relaying the message through Arthur it might scare the gang, the second was him directly riding into camp as a an act of pure intimidation. Showing how he has no fear of them and exuding control through his ability to ride into their home and try and scare them, showing how he KNOWS where they are and try to scare them into surrender. Milton shooting Hosea was another act of intimidation. He went for the oldest and weakest member to try and show his power which shows Milton as the coward he is. He shot and killed Hosea, who is not only unarmed but also old and when he attacks Arthur who is sick with TB. The only times Milton seems to take an active part is when he KNOWS he has the upper hand regardless.
Ross has seen what force can do. It ultimately got Milton killed so Ross goes a more tactful if distasteful route. He kidnaps Abigail and Jack, after seeing how effective it was when Milton did it so then he can make John do his bidding. Ross believes he is doing right but Ross embody's the worst of civilisation. Enforcing ones will on another to live by the code he dictates while being exempt from consequences. When he goes after John at the end it''s because he was ordered to so some governor can be re-elected. The first time it was personal when he had John hunt down Bill, Javier and Dutch, the second time he was contracted to. I believe Ross knew he would be back for John and just wanted to let him off so then he could come back and finish the job. Ross' distain for others trying to live their lives is obvious from how he talks to John and even though he admits several faults and even saying he's vindictive, he says it like it's something funny, quaint. However, Ross had no intention of letting John go as right from the start I believe Ross knew about the governors re-election campaign and saw it as a chance to gain some glory by bringing in the the Van der Linde gain or what remains of them. So he has John do his dirty work so then there's only John to remove. But one thing always stuck with me, one thing Ross said which seemed to foreshadow his own demise.
"We all pay for what we have done Mr Marston."
Ross probably said that to try and sound like a moral person but the thing is Ross thought he was immune from that. Turns out NO ONE is. We all pay, it depends on if we pay through money, time or blood.
"Civilization may be dull, but the alternative is hell."
Reminded me of Gary Oldman playing villains
Well, Milton gave a lot of chances to the gang to deliver them Dutch, a chance to be spared. And Ross wanted to kill everyone at the beginning, sent John to make his dirty job, and not respecting his contract
Man the set up so much for another prequel. I dont care what other peoplel have said about an rdr3, could bery easily do a "stories" style game on someone near milton
Milton didn’t experience the gang like we did, his experience was people murdered and robbed over nothing and some money, seeing these vagabonds living free without any consequences and continuing to do their trade, I can understand the law here.
Milton did fair law to chase and pursue the gang eventually killing many of them and causing disorganization in the group. Ross did unfair botched attempts often illegal, or treacherous. although he did. He was the one who killed John.
There were no actions Milton did throughout the story of Red Dead redemption 2 that made me believe he was going to go back on his word of letting them go had they turned on Dutch, the problem is the gang was too set in their ways they didn't want to change. Milton on three different occasions tried to give them a chance to get out and even at lakay lake he tried to give them a chance to come out until they didn't come out then opened fire. And with the Jack argument from their point of view Jack could be taught to just do all these criminal things that they're trying to stop, that or tried to prevent revenge from the child which Red Dead 3 would be if it were Jack's story it would be Red Dead revenge I would accept no other title.
Ross is the guy to force Milton to kill one of his Gang Member when he Met Mac Callander
I always knew there wouldn’t be an escape from the law. RDR showed us the feds will catch up with you eventually. At times I feel like Milton either had a honor code or didn’t like resorting to violence unless it was deemed a necessity. Yet I sit on the fence, thinking he was just playing good cop and Ross’ ruthless behavior came from watching his superior get killed while trying to take this gang down.
This is why I love this game, even the antagonists are morally grey enough that you consider them good or bad
Ross is no different than Abraham Reyes. They preach about justice but all they care about behind the scenes is fame and fortune.
Reyes is a dictator no different than Allende and Ross is a thug no different than Dutch.
That is the point. Savagery always takes a new form. Ross is a savage in civilization.
I like how Ross and Milton were both killed by a Marston. Both Jack and Abigail
Ross was a corrupt official using john to do his dirty work than killed him and took all the credit
phenomenal channel!
basically milton had a lot more code and actually believed in what he did while ross was much more realistic and sadistic with it like milton would do things out of honour and code unless something REALLY needed to be done like he told arthur who the rat was and he also let one of the members they roughed up which was molly leave even tho she didn't speak a word and although he does execute some people on the spot instead of the way he should he was probably doing it to irritate the gang and get more of them down the line or being influenced by ross just like dutch was influenced by micah and honestly milton was still very sadistic but he actually believed that what he did was the right thing while ross knew what they were doing was wrong but prefered it towards just no order
Bruh so Edgar Ross went to John after 8 years wtf that don’t make sense if he was spying on him in 1899 why would he wait so long this shit don’t make sense 😂
Milton offered everyone a deal to take Dutch in and that they all would be free, seeing how things ended up they should of taken it
Honestly if milton lived in rdr 1 instead of Ross John may have got the chance to live despite his tendencies he would have kept his word
I think of Milton as a foil to Dutch, more than anything else. While Dutch wants a world that's wild and free, Milton wants a world that's ordered and civilized. Both of them stoop to ruthless extremes in order to create the world they want. The only real difference is Milton is completely honest about who he is and what he wants. I don't think there's a moment where Milton ever truly lies about what he's doing. The only time I think he could have been lying was about Mac, though he could easily have been taunting Arthur with the truth as well.
He is what Dutch fears: civilization making his way of life obsolete, with no emotion or reservation.
Milton gave them a chance
It was lie
I always had the idea if Ross had bit the bullet and if it was Milton, he would’ve kept his end of the deal with John. John (least the high honor) does plenty of good on his path on killing/capturing the rest of the gang. Ross was a bitter, hateful, scum of a human being who enjoyed the death of anyone he was paid to handle. Milton didn’t want to kill but Dutch had pushed his luck far enough.
John would have made up for ending the problem, and seeing how John wanted to just raise his family right and live in a society... Milton would have been pleased.
I feel with miltion he was tired of giving this gang a chance over and over and over again, and since he knew he couldn't ger through to them, they had to die,
The public execution of hosea was shown that he was done being the nice guy, and to prove to Dutch, he wasn't so smart after all
Ross, on the other hand, didn't care if Jack or Abigail or Uncle or John died they were the last of the gang that needed to die.
Ross member had the slightest thing to want to help John. It was literally just an entire game to make his career look much much much better.
As hit and Bing alone, gunman, who killed the biggest gang member.
It was an entire game to make NATE JOHNS campaign for governor look good. Nate JOhns tells Ross to cut down on crime, and this leads to ROss nabbing John to do the dirty work.
Milton was getting tired of giving the Van der Linde Gang chances over and over... and Ross was with him during that. Ross, at RDR1's time, has been pusehd ove rthe "give them a chance" edge long ago.
Ross didn't care if Jack, ABigail, John or UNcle died... neither dir MIlton, when he had his Agents hose down the hut in which they hid with automatic weaponry! Milton was passed being nice. ANd Ross knew: THey could'Ve killed the Van der Linde Gang at Clemens Point, probably already at Horseshoe. Milton would have survived, less people, including COrnwall would have died... why take the risk again?
@undertakernumberone1 Yes, he gave them multiple chance to give up and hand him over.
He was tired of looking like a fool for being civil and trying to help them multiple times having more lives die to the mad man Dutch.
Ross would have just blasted them or gotten them to kill each other, making it look like it was his work.
@undertakernumberone1 besides that the story would have been a lot more different if they just shot Arthur during the time of Jack and his fishing he was civil. If it was Ross, he would have cornered Arthur into helping him like John
We don't know if he would have kept his word, but from how he sounded, he was fine with letting the people he didn't know leave and start anew and said it in lakay
Also, compared to John, Arthur really had nothing to lose. He had no family.
Dutch was the only person that he had so his thing. Was to inform them that they were coming.
Milton offered a gang of criminals their freedom more than once and was working within legal boundaries. Edgar Ross sent an entire army to John’s house after John did what he wanted.
Ross learned from Milton. He saw what Milton did and how it didn't work and learned that outlaws can't be trusted. I think this lends itself to the theory about abigail being the 2nd rat which i kinda believe but if not that i do think micah was a rat just to try and get the cash and bluster his own reputation before he turncoat
Milton was just doing his job as he honorably can gave Arthur his word he wouldn't swing by turning in Dutch and giving the gang 3 days to run off by just having Dutch alone maybe Hosea too since he was well known but Milton tends to play fair.
I dont know what's wrong with Milton. He just did his job and he was quite honorable. He gave them multiple chances to surrender.
the only creator who brings both games into a combine!
Milton: Reveals just about everything he is going to do but is merciful in some ways.
Ross: A manipulative liar that uses others as a tool.
Who knows truly of Milton did lie about Micah because in death, he truly is the fate of the gang.
everything they did seemed justifiable to me. ofc its a video game so they gotta paint narratives but realistically in that time period, the law *mostly* wanted to just maintain peace. if the people youre hunting are known theives and murderers and have been for 20 years, you sure as shit better fight fire with fire because thats the only way youre going to get them
everyone associated with the gang had conscious decisions to stay or not and to bring jack to an actual safe place but no. they put him and themselves in harms way so then they gotta pay for it. even the way they treated marston is justifable, he never reaped what he sowed from his actions so he had to face the consequences and then some. there are no storybook endings in life. dont get expect a happy ending if youre going to actively choose to commit actions that offend more than the law
The irony is john was the first man to see Dutch true colors but he fell for Ross lies about him leting him go after getting Dutch ,while Arthur fell for Dutch lies But he would never fell for miltons or even ross if had the chance.
bro sounds like shino from naruto
Yall know the song name from 3:50 to 6:50 i think? I've been looking through the soundtrack I can't find it 💀
I think that Milton, for all of his many flaws, did take his iob seriously and wanted to get it done as efficiently as possible. Ross was more like Zapp Brannigan and willing to brute force his way through, no matter the cost, no matter the harm to both sides, as long as he came out on top.
I heard Milton are about to hit Florida. Better watchout everyone. Especially if you’re Lucia or Jason
Both were crooked on some level. Offering deals made sense logically. When that didn't work, Milton would resort to full fledged assault, pressure that when applied, eventually crippled the gang. Even if it got Milton killed.
Ross basically just got to do cleanup for what Milton largely accomplished, and took his sweet time at it. 12 years to be exact, but still took the credit. Despite not wanting to get his hands dirty, Ross ate it in the end by having his half assed retirement cut short by a 19 year old.
Lore of Was Milton Really better than Ross? Momentum 100
They’re villains because the protagonist are criminals. If we could see the pain and damage we wreak throughout the storyc Arthur, John and the van der linden gang has earned its death several times over. Offering them any clemency was a kindness they took and returned it, by brutalizing several communities and continuing to kill hundreds of lawmen. Of course, a lawman is gonna know all this and realizing he has the chance to kill the man responsible for it? He’s gonna take it and all morality be damned
Ross was a man who didn’t care about John at all he used him for his dirty work and then execute him
Let's not forget that the Pinkertons are "Technically" the good guys.
Dutch and the gang have robbed and killed for decades. Milton was more than justified going after them. We only see the gang as heros because the story wants us too. Its not until chapter 6, when Arthur and John decide too change
6:09 in Red Dead Redemption 1 Nate Johns is running for governor and is promising to cut down on crime. To do this he has Ross extort Marston into doing their bidding
@OmaewamouShindeiru-oy7vi I’m confused what do you mean? Nate Johns is running for governor and has promised to cut down crime. Ross extorts John do their job cause he has leverage
@OmaewamouShindeiru-oy7vi It is the reason that drives Ross into action. The reason he is choosing Marston? Probably a combination of things... Convenience: Marston is expandable, and so he doens't have to risk himself or any agents (pretty justified after RDR2). Revenge for Milton, to get a nice feather in his cap for wiping out the last leftovers of the Van der Linde Gang, and the knowledge, that John is a one man army that can get the job done, because he killed Micah Bell. Probably also helped by the fact that he has family that allows him to put pressure on John.
Honestly wouldn't be surprised
If milton and Ross were.......buddies
20:26 whats the music in this part?
7:02 why does uncle have no beard
Because of what I suspect it's caused by a bug.
Everytime Arthur or John uses a bandana, the beard disappears till the bandana is removed.
I think the same happens with Uncle at that mission, since his beard only disappears once the gang have to put the bandana.
So I suppose the bandana is there, just invisible, showing that cursed thing Uncle is without his beard.
I don't think Milton was really a villain, he was an antagonist to the Van Der Linde gang, but he was more like an anti-hero to the rest of society
I don't care they are among my top four most hated characters, in a prefect world Arthur kills Milton and John kills Ross.
Milton would have let John live with his family and not betray him
Milton was pretty reasonable until Lakay. I don't believe he would have truly left the rest of gang alone even if they handed over Dutch though.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Milton is a good cop while Ross is bad cop. Milton was lying all time and way too many people have eaten it up.