It's interesting how she justifies misgendering Ethel by appealing to their supposed aggression when you consider how she dismissed my criticism: she asserted that I thought I was right just because I presented myself calmly, she accused me of having fragile masculinity, and she continues to disparage me as an over-sensitive man. Indeed, this is how she speaks of many (most?) of the men she critiques. While I'm not about to defend the likes of Josh Scorcher, Dr Wolf, Silverquill and Toonkritic, I will point out that each of these men have been bashed as sensitive and fragile, *not* aggressive, even though half of them are predators and predation is an intrinsically aggressive act. Lily has demonstrated a consistent pattern of relying on the stereotype of men having fragile egos and demanding to be coddled and catered to, not the stereotype of them being aggressive and violent. Yet, the moment a transfem person is involved, she suddenly and completely changes her framing. I won't say this is a blatant example of transmisogyny. I will, however, heavily imply it.
I'm passingly familiar with the Toonkritic problem, but I haven't heard much of anything about the other three mentioned. (I tend to miss a lot of fandom drama, since I"m not heavily involved.) I tried to watch some of Lily Orchard's earlier stuff, and found it to be at best shallow and inconsequential; and at worst to be profoundly and glaringly bad, very self-serving and full of gross and blatant misrepresentations of her targets. I never understood why she was so popular.
@@EphemeralTao | So, Josh Scorcher (AKA Josh Burner) is a former friend of hers (and a fellow predator, for the record) who she quite literally uses as the face of fragile masculinity. Have you ever seen that picture of a man crying in a bathtub that Lily mockingly uses whenever she thinks people are too sensitive? That was Josh, and the reason that picture exists is because he did that to mock the idea of being personally offended by nothing (e.g. cartoon criticism). So yeah, irony. As for Dr Wolf and Silverquill, I don't know anything about them outside of what happened with Toonkritic. What I'm referring to is how Lily criticised them for preaching "forgiveness as the path to healing" not out of any regard for Toonkritic's victims, but because conflict makes them uncomfortable. Now, that criticism is absolutely valid, but it doesn't have to be built on framing Dr Wolf and Silverquill as particularly fragile, and that framing actually does Toon's victims (and, in fact, all victims) a disservice. How is it a disservice? Because the vast majority of people buy into the idea of forgiveness as a path to healing in order to avoid holding abusers accountable or reckoning with the abuse that occurred, and that's not a result of fragility but of abuse culture, a structural problem with society. Saying that it's fragility is like saying that transmisia is a result of a personal lack of empathy or respect, but no, the fact that this empathy/respect deficit only occurs when a trans person is involved (e.g. preferred names for people who hate their legal names are fine, until a trans person shows up, then suddenly legal names are mandatory) shows that this is a targeted attack on trans people. The way she talks about men she dislikes comes across to me as an attempt to give off 'girlboss energy': a woman calling men out for being fragile is very attractive to certain people (and this may or may not include young girls and other young people assigned female at birth, just sayin'), and it helps bolster Lily's image as a strong woman who, despite being marginalised, takes no shit. It's not just a personal choice: it's a framing that she chooses even when it's wrong, because it benefits her. So, hopefully you can see why it's a red flag that she pivots to the "aggressive" framing the moment a transfem person is involved. Hopefully this helps to contextualise what I was saying. By the way, sorry if I went off on a bit of a tangent. It's just that your response gave me an opportunity to expand on what I was saying in a way that I thought others could benefit from. P.S. Our coverage of Josh's predatory behaviour, and Lily enthusiastically encouraging it, for anyone who's interested: th-cam.com/video/qQTvw1L258U/w-d-xo.html
I will add that calling a Trans man overly emotional and as having fragile masculinity. . . Not. A good look there, lily. It's somewhat mitigated by the fact she is using it on cis men too, but... It still irks me the wrong way.
@@theaureliasys6362 | "It's somewhat mitigated by the fact she is using it on cis men too …" I also felt that way but, after taking a moment to think about it, I don't think that's true at all. After all, it's not like she accuses me of fragile masculinity in a misguided attempt to be affirming; it's not like she's treating me the same way as cis men because that's the only way she knows how to treat a man. She's doing it to erase that I'm trans so that she can dismiss me as an ignorant, privileged misogynist. She was rather explicit about it, too: when I first criticised her, she told her fans that she refused to listen to 40 minutes of "mansplaining" about sexual assault, as if I wasn't speaking from years of lived experience. This is actually what motivated me to independently coin the term 'transmisandry'. Even if we ignore that, though, I think it's very difficult to call a trans man fragile per se without being harmful. We have to remember that trans men experience a lifetime of being dismissed as too emotional. Not only does that condition us to second-guess ourselves and downplay our grievances when we're accused of fragility, but it's something that never actually stops. Even after medical transition, I've noticed that, almost every time I call cis men out on their misogyny, they stop treating me like a man and start treating me like I'm making something out of nothing or even like I'm mentally ill. Actually, even though Lily isn't a cis man, she did this exact same thing: she accused me of being delusional when I called her out on perpetuating patriarchal structures. It's not like Lily is unaware of this harmful stereotype: she's banking on it. (Though, to be clear, Lily's approach is distinct from cis men's approach: she didn't offer to reward me with Dude Acceptance Points for dropping my criticism and agreeing with her. I just want to make that clear so that this can't be used to paint Lily as a cis man when she isn't one.) Honestly, the more I think about it, the more it feels like Lily called me 'hysterical' but with a hastily added coat of blue paint.
It's so fucking interesting that Lily apparently thinks 'queer' is a slur, but has no issue tossing around terms like 'tenderqueer' without any thought.
I rushed to see if anyone was talking about this in the comments as soon as I heard her say it. Like what??? Wdym you think queer is a slur and don’t like it when people use it but you’re fully willing to call other people tenderqueers as an insult??????
i know this is a year old but it's almost as if she wants it to be one so she can use it as one. was also super telling that she called people freaks imo
Queer isn't a slur but more so a term used for certain demographics and while it has been used as an insult is isn't inherently a slur. The fa- word however is one
I find it telling that Lily constantly misgenders you because you "act like a debate bro" and yet when SHE is misgendered for her aggressive tendencies it's unforgivable transphobia and she constantly points out that no one would willingly misgender someone if they knew they were cis.
Perhaps she thinks her own transness gives her the right to make tranphobic remarks about her critics. Ironically The way she reacts to complaints about her predatory behavior is very similar to how Vaush does. She is the last person who should be arguing that misgendering is ok based on how similar a person acts to Vaush.
That's the part that really gets me. A lot of her critics that make TH-cam videos like EOT call out people who misgender her and only really hate on Lily to a strong extent as an excuse to be transphobic, so it is frustrating to see that when it comes to trans content creators she doesn't get along with she instantly misgenders and demeans their identity.
Lily sounds exactly like the hundreds of douchy dudebro unrepentant predator cis men on this fucking site, so the fact that she justifies misgendering someone because of how they sound is fucking hilarious to me, especially since, in my subjective opinion, Essence has a MUCH more feminine voice than Lily does.
I mean, on its own that's just character. Not all black people are nice, just like not all white people are nice. Now, in _context,_ however, yeah, I definitely see where you're coming from.
@@fructosecornsyrup5759 [TL;DR at the end] I know you get where OP is coming from, but I hope it's okay I add my own two cents as well to further elaborate on this. In a general sense, yes, there are people part of marginalized groups that are terrible people, I mean we're talking about Lily Orchard here, a predatory trans woman. However, when it comes to creating characters and a world to place them in, while it's fine to include bad people that just happen to be marginalized, personally I think you should also include a character that's a good person of the same marginalized group. So, if you were to write a predatory trans woman, and that's the only transfemme rep you have, that's a pretty big issue considering that society is constantly painting transfemmes as "men in dresses/wigs that want to diddle your kids". It furthers the stigma against these people, you feel? Stockholm Twilight being the only portrayal of a black woman in the story (one with a main role, anyway) and being an abusive r*pist, even forgetting the kind of person Lily is, doesn't leave the best taste in the reader's mouth. Especially when in the story, she's written as a character worthy of sympathy and praise for trying to get better despite harming Ascentia severely. Not to mention Rainbow Dash being a darker skinned intersex woman and also being a predator, with the cause being her intersexism. Which is not only a blatant misrepresentation of intersex folk, but a very harmful one. People with a brain know that anyone can be an arse or a nonce regardless of race, sexuality, and religion, but in media as it is now with representing minorities, you need a foil to the ones that ARE reprehensible. When we see abusive or predatory white people on the screen, we know not all white people are like that, but minorities are not given that same courtesy. Bigots are very loud, after all. TL;DR: We know not every marginalized person is kind, but as you said, context matters and in media we need an opposition to also show not every marginalized person is a complete freakazoid for those in the back that lack common sense. Else stigmas are further pushed against these people and causes more real life harassment.
Conflating "minors seeking out adult content" with "a specific person coaxing minors to interact with them sexually" is such a scummy thing to do for Lily, because those two things aren't even remotely the same. I was a horny 14-year-old, too. I watched quite a bit of porn, I read erotic fanfiction, I pirated R-rated movies and tv shows. Those experiences always felt very safe to me because my actions were entirely my own - I was merely a curious observer, the people who created said content didn't even need to know I was there. If I was uncomfortable, I could immediately opt out with the click of a button. This would NOT have been the case if these experiences were interactive, with another (potentially much older) person on the other side, using their life experience or my trust in them to push past my boundaries and coerce me into engaging with material I wasn't ready for or interested in. You know ... exactly what Lily is doing to her audience. THAT'S the real issue at hand.
Yup, but Lily can't be honest with the situation since, if she were... well there goes her entire defense. That's why she has to constantly revise reality to suit her narrative, changing the story slightly more each time it's told.
THIS!! I joke about how when I was 16, I wrote my first ero-fanfic and how bad it was. But I never posted it an it was in the safety of my own journal (because I wrote fanfics in little journals you could buy anywhere. I guess to me it made it feel more like an authentic book). If it was a person who showed me a fanfic without my consent or were completely aware of what they were doing, yeah I'd be terrified even back then.
The ONLY people who don’t understand this are either creeps who wilfully misunderstand the point, or self blaming victims who are brainwashed by trauma/toxic cultures. Something tells me Lily Orchard isn’t in the second group.
yes, exactly this! teenagers seeking out explicit content isn't a new thing, but it needs to be in the safety of their own space/time or with people their own age that they trust or else it becomes a weaponization of power and a grooming tactic
Ah yes, my favorite TERF commentator: a well spoken trans woman girlboss. Lily calling you a TERF is so unbelievably funny to me and never won't be. Thanks for being a reasonable and lovely voice for our trans community on TH-cam
Maybe it's just me, but MLMs have completely ruined the word girlboss for me. Though Ethel (I hope I got her name right and that's not just the name of one of her admins. If it is, I mean no offense, this is the second video from Essence of Thought that I watched and I don't know much about her channel) definitely appears to be a well spoken and meticulous person that makes sure not to make unfounded accusation. Edit: Nvm, maybe I should just fucking listen.
I keep thinking back to that time Lily said about her audience "I don't THINK I'm smarter than you, I KNOW I'm smarter than you. You wouldn't be following me otherwise."
I very much feel like Lily preaches a view that Loyalty to her is something that should be expected, and making sure her audience isn't smarter than her so that they can remain loyal. It's fascinating to observe, and speaking as someone who jumped the fence at one point, it can be intoxicating to experience first-hand.
My first exposure to Lily was her video about Korra, and I always found one of her statements to be really "whistle-blowy": When she's talking about the fight scenes, she mentions how several of Korra's opponents pin her arms down, and says that it's the show being "rape-coded". Which I always took that as "it's a fight with someone who can literally control the elements with their breath, why would you not try to restrain them"
That’s such a dumb and baffling complaint on Lily’s part. Avatar is an action show. How the hell else should people fight? You’re going to get someone pinned down by an opponent. Korra fights with her arms, and controls the elements with her arms. What else should they pin down, her legs? Would it be more appropriate to grab her by the waist? How else do you restrain someone?
What I really dislike about Lily constantly misgendering you is that there's people who latch themselves into drama surrounding Lily Ochard specifically to be transphobic and content creators like you call them out, yet she doesn't do the same when it comes to people being misgendered on her behalf and in fact misgenders others herself. Hypocritical and deplorable.
She blocked me on Tumblr for unapologetically declining to scan all my letter cards at the door and IDing as queer, then characterized me as "self-flagellating" because I said it's an important word to people who don't neatly fit into a single box. As if not being able to fit neatly into a box is anything to be ashamed of.
Rewatching this and I just realized In the part talking about tender-queers, Lily is perfectly comfortable saying queer despite insisting it's a slur So essentially, she's perfectly fine calling her detractors what she things is a slur when it's convenient for her
@VeraBrightfeatherAfter she ragged on the creator of Steven Universe nonstop for the whole "redeeming the Diamonds" plotline and called her a nazi? Dude the hypocrisy
2020: wow I sure dislike that bad-take video essay by lily orchard. 2021: wow lily orchard really shouldn’t be giving people writing advice but at least it’s funny 2022: what’s all this about her writing about kids??? 2023: fuckign CHRIST lily DELETE UR ACCOUNT 😭
oh my gosh real, at first i was like "oh, she gives really.. bad advice and has bad essays that don't understand anything, but y'know, whatever." and then i found out she apparently sexually abused her sibling as CHILDREN, groomed children, and just. wow! 😃
@@Idkanymore9029Basically 2021-2023 for the people who haven't heard about Lily Orchard since deciding she was overly negative in 2017. It's too bad, all the small town Canadians I root for at the back of my mind end up being crappy people.
It's very rich that Lily calls you a terf when I recall that she said that she's not transphobic because she doesn't benefit from it. So basically "I'm trans so being transphobic is stupid", not "being transphobic is bad whether I'm trans or not"
Well i saw just a portion of Stockholm in a youtube video (a MLP fanfict she wrote) and i saw a disturbing link between pedo love and incest. It pretty much a running theme. So yeah ...
To add on, apparently Lily misgenders her own family, not just her critics. Meaning she misgenders the people that she loves. Like a TERF would. Lily has talked about habjng a "sister" who ran away. Turns out, this "sister" is actually non-binary, and Lily is just refusing to call them her sibling. Also, the sibling was assigned female at birth and raised to be a girl, so it's not a case of the sibling being transfem and Lily using a more femme term for them. She's deliberately misgendering her sibling. She also admitted that as kids she would physically abuse this sibling over very small things. While I, as an older brother and a person with autism, understand that some kids may become more upset kver seemingly little things or fight with their siblings more, Lily allegedly laughs about these things. While i cant confirm that the sibling does or doesn't find it funny, i think the fact that Lily alleges that they ran away and havent been in contact with Lily or their parents in a long time to speak volumes about this
There is a terrifying difference between lily orchard in her scripted and edited videos and her unscripted off the cuff comments on twitter, tumbler and streams, its enough to make my stomach rise. I remember watching her when I was 15 and loving her I remember feeling so happy with a mlp TH-camr will to call out creeps and bullys in the fandom. But watching these videos makes me wonder how much of her content was bull.
Even when they don't refer to you as "he", Lily and her audience only use "they" to refer to you. Whilst I don't know your pronouns and you may go by just "they/them"; I've seen it wayyy too commonly people adressing transfems they don't like by "they/them" and not "she/her" in a way to misgender them and also having the defense of they/them being gender neutral. So many people, including OTHER TRANS FEMS refuse to call non-passing transfems "she/her". Calling someone by "they/them" when you know they don't go by it is still misgendering even if its a gender nuetral pronoun. I think Lily refuses to acknoledge you as a trans person because it makes her victimhood of being a "poor trans women bullied by transphobic crtitics" a less acceptable excuse. (edit, i missed the fact that someone in Lily's audience says you go by "she/they". If this is true, I still feel like they refuse to refer to you as "she")
As a non-binary person who hates the Q-word and does not want to be specifically referred to by it, I also will not police anyone else from using it to refer to themselves or identifying with it. If doing this gives anyone joy or makes them feel seen, then I have zero issue with them doing so. Me attempting to stop that would be incredibly toxic, and the fact that Lily does is something that has honestly hacked me off about Lily for a long time.
Yeah, see, this is literally the entire difference between just not liking a word and someone who is an outright bigot to people who identify with it. I honestly feel so sad for any baby queer on her audience that will feel ashamed for finally finding an identity that makes them comfortable.
It was her comparing it to wanting to be fucked by fascists that really took me by surprise (00:45:44), though it probably shouldn't have at this point.
i'm nonbinary and use the q-word to identify myself, but i won't tell anyone who dislikes it off for it. everyone has their own labels or lackthereof that they want to use and that's okay! massive respect.
It’s so gross how Lily loves to sneer at anyone who throws criticism toward her way and write it off as, “they’re having a temper tantrum.” She is utterly incapable of owning up to her bad behavior.
There are legitimate streaming platforms where people in “spicy work” can stream NSFW and be tipped for it. I don’t understand why it has to be on TH-cam when it goes against Terms of Service.
I used to watch Lily because of her Disney videos. She talked about Beauty and the Beast and talked about how much she didn't like it. Now with THIS information, I think it's not because of the fact that it "gives a narrative of a woman having to fix a man". I think it's because she didn't like how after a moment, she realized that it was about open communication and trying to better yourself in order to become healthier and happier.
Especially when the writers had been extremely careful to make Belle falls in love with the beast when he stopped being a jerk, saves her life, gives her a library and tries to be better. She didn't fix him. He fixed himself because he saw how unfair he was.
Something I realize about lily that made me alienate myself from her is that she only cares about trans right and racism when it comes to her and making her look good. As soon as someone criticizes her, it's all out the window
Listening to her constantly misgendering you is ticking me off so freaking bad and I'm not even trans. I can't imagine how infuriating this is for you. Good grief.
I'm so happy you pointed out how white people have taken the terms "tenderqueer" and "Karen" from the Black community and used them to attack people they don't like. This is the first time I've seen a white person with a platform define them correctly, which is important because content made by Black people often doesn't reach white viewers. Black people have told me they've been saying this for years and no one listens, which is discouraging, so it's great to see that some white people who have the ability to reach others ARE listening. I just learned who Lily Orchard is through watching your videos, but I don't think anyone needs to know her specifically to understand the patterns and themes you are discussing. Abuse is so widespread and normalized in societies with a lot of influence in the world, so it's important that people can recognize when and how it occurs. Thank you all for doing this work.
It's sad, enraging in fact, to see members of an oppressed and exploited group participating in the oppression and exploitation as Lily is doing. Something about how the lack of a liberating education leaves the oppressed dreaming of becoming the oppressor, to badly paraphrase Paulo Freire.
Yeah. She and Blair White are doing active harm to the community and it's so upsetting because transphobic people will see them and think that they represent the entire trans community. And since trans people are a part of the lgbt community, it reflects badly on the entire movement, making it way harder for people to stop hating us, and also giving them what they think is a valid reason to hate us.
Seems Lily and Mikaila have been having some trouble running damage control on our recent exposés, making numerous (oftentimes internally contradictory) assertions to justify Lily’s predatory behaviour, as well as racist and transmisic remarks.
At this point Lily's just a bad person using the "good guy" label of being trans as a shield. Transpeople are still people, and just like cispeople, they can do messed up stuff.
I don't get people who can't just answer a simple question without exploding into a "ur dumb if ur asking" rant. Just say "sometimes I show my boobs" or whatever. One sentence. Two seconds to say. Thanks for the informative video. I unsubscribed from her after seeing this. Very grateful TH-cam recommended me this video, I can't stand creators who treat their younger audience members like that.
I think it stops being confusing when you realize that lily is fucking lying and the reason she said what she said was probably because she derives sick enjoyment out of directing a minor to watch a stream where she flashes people
I was a minor once upon a time who would lie about my age to get into 18+ websites. I was a minor when I wrote my first NSFW fanfic. Knowing this, I know that people who are minors might follow or interact with me, which is why I keep all of my socials relatively PG-13 (with occasional things that could be considered NSFW, like me telling a scientific fact about sperm cells. And that was because someone wondered if a microscope they planned on buying for Christmas COULD see sperm cells out of morbid curiosity). Just because teens do stuff doesn't mean I need to enable that. This is also why if I do anything like write or draw NSFW, I never ever put it on my public socials. Lily should know this and try to make the internet BETTER for minors.
With the first bit about claiming to say "Click the fuck around" even IF she were telling the truth, that doesn't exhonorate her. If someone asks, you tell them. Even if they weren't a minor.
Me and my friends always say this. As someone who uses both he/him and they/them, it's incredibly telling that someone doesn't respect your pronouns, if they always default to the "they/them" My friends will usually default to my he/him and sometimes use they/them because I am very masculine presenting, I wish to be viewed in a masculine way and so on. Based off your avatar you might present in a more fem way, and it's just weird to me that. Lily out of everyone, goes "he... sorry THEY" Just the refusal to use the she/her at all despite how much they talk about you is so odd. It's nothing as bad as half of the things they're doing cause it's literally grooming children and such with their platform, but it gives really bad vibes of "I don't actually respect you"
it’s the same thing ben shartiro does, say the completely wrong pronoun and then default to they EVERY SINGLE TIME so that they can be transmisic while they technically cannot be called out for being transmisic.
As someone who's he/him but went by she/he/they at one point, ya, its real easy to tell when someone takes the cop oit of not actually referring to you correctly
I just real quick wanna say years ago after I heard about her mlp fanfics, I remember going to her tumblr and telling her just how disgusted I was in her actions and how she makes trans people look bad and makes me ashamed to be trans. She just responded by calling me a trump support I know going to her tumblr was a bad idea, but I was 14 and very upset by what I’d found
the part where you said she targets children who are LGBT+ or have been bullied hit me so hard. I grew up on her content and have been on and off for a while, I felt like a part of my identity was formed by her videos and now hearing this really disgusts me. I'm glad I found this video.
Got to the part about the "only 7% of Lily's audience are registered as minors" and holy fuck thats the exact same thing she said was bad to do, because the brony fandom claimed that only ".1% of the fanfics are child porn", which she did the math on to show that it was a lot of child pornography because of how many fanfics there actually were on the site, and she makes the exact same argument regarding her subsciber base?? Wtf?? Before i was disgusted, now im also angry. I mean i was angry before, but its worse now
Im gonna keep my comments connected to 1 comment that i original sent, got to the part where she misgendered you, and all i can think of is her Contrapoints video. To quote something she herself agreed with, in the editing of her video and a point she was trying to make, "if somebody asks you to call them they, you call them they."
Ikr? Its such bs.. its still hard to take in everything, im having to rewatch the video a third time now actually. You're doing good work to call everything out to keep others like glade aware of what Lily and her wives do. Oh! Um, im unsure if you plan to go over this, but a channel named opal has a video from Patchwork about their own experience with Lily, which is another testimony about Lily's behaviour around minors
Yeah, about that: Opal wasn't happy with our usage of the word grooming or that victim testimony constitutes evidence. As for Patchie, I had originally planned to give him a place to speak after the Glade video but he then approached Glade under false pretenses before exploiting him to try and one up me after I criticized Jess aka Trans Girl Therapist and Luxander for talking about defending Lily (admitting to having not listened to Glade's testimony) and laughing about the fact that I was giving Glade a platform since I'm apparently like Lily. Before I called Jess out Patchie was only singing praise of the Glade video, and it's worth mentioning that Patchie constantly refers to Jess as his internet mum. Both Patchie and Opal set about attacking the idea that a person can use their platform to groom their audiences as well as arguing that you can't believe victims and that victim testimony doesn't constitute actual evidence. Opal and Patchie were the two critics I quoted at the end of the Mackenzii piece, the ones whose name I left out as I explained Parasocial Audience Grooming in hopes that they'd back down, but they haven't. Suffice to say, I doubt they'd be very happy with me touching their testimonies.
At this point Lilly is coming across The Big Bad Wolf - a dangerous predator who preys on children by adopting a harmless disguise which lures them in with a sense of safety. Then she pounces.
I'm Cis/AFAB Bisexual, and I just wanted to say that your voice is much more feminine than even mine. I think a lot of it has to do with your cadence and tone, but regardless I find it very soothing and I hope that it is not something that brings you any kind of dismorphia. I love your videos and enjoy getting your POV on things. ❤
I have to say I raised an eyebrow when she called you right wing. Isn’t Lily herself pretty much a liberal? I’m just shocked. I never watched her because I didn’t too much care for how she talked to her audience, but it sounds like she’s trying to prime her audience to ignore everything you have to say. Why would she do that if she had nothing to hide?
From her arguments she seems more neoliberal than general liberal, which is to say she wants to be free to use whatever power she can scrounge to hurt people with impunity.
From her Korra video I assumed she is a tankie. She says the worst system in the world is anarchism, followed by fascism and capitalism, which leaves only a few options.
To me it is telling a lot that she ask what youtubers don´t engage sexually with their audience... I mean it is clear she is lying by naming these youtubers but that statement is so baseless.
I'm binge watching all of these videos but the bit at 58:37 hits so hard! TW: talk of misgendering My Nan has known I'm trans for 2 and a bit years, and no progress to her not misgendering me has been made. The last time I saw her, on my birthday, my mum actively shut me when down when I went to correct nan by saying "do you see her very often? no, so don't expect her to get it right." Which hurt, especially when I had specifically bought a badge to wear that labelled me the birthday BOY! I am constantly forced to accept that nan misgenders me by my mum and pretend it's "okay". So ye, that bit hits way too hard.
For correction the woman in the stream used throughout this video with Lily is some British woman named Lola not Mikayla. I am just stating this for the record.
Gotta love how everytime anyone calls her out including misgendering Ethel just because she has an issue with her, she acts like the kind of person who'd drive a car through a parade and then proceed to blame the car for running people over and the people running the parade for being in the car's way when the cops pull her over for it.
There are many arguments that reasonable people can discuss around what mental faculties are needed to consent, how to create laws which allow for the complexities of consensual contact between minors and those who have recently passed the age of consent, how to protect legal adults from predation, where to draw the line between transgressing social norms and unwanted sexual contact...and absolutely none of them are relevant to Lily's behaviour, and she goddamn knows it. Lily Orchard intentionally posted NSFW in a SFW chat; she doesn't have any answer for that, so she has to deflect. On a legal and moral basis, nobody but the most extremist of libertarians would argue that adults have no obligation to protect children. Her multiple callouts of predators only demonstrates that Lily Orchard does understand this, if not emphatically agrees with it. Instead of disputing the provided arguments and evidence, she intentionally deceives her audience over and over in self-contradictory ways. Anyone who has the ability to think critically removes themselves from the audience, so the only ones left are vulnerable people who aren't able to critically assess her claims and rely on her to dictate what's happening. It's like she's trying to be some Hot Topic Tucker Carlson. If she isn't doing it on purpose, then she has profound problems with impulsivity, understanding the consequences of her actions, poor intellectual empathy, and compulsive lying. Either way she needs an intervention and to stay the hell away from children and the rest of her fanbase for the foreseeable future. *I specify intellectual empathy, because lacking emotional empathy is a neurodivergency and doesn't make one immoral. Having a non-reaction to others' pain doesn't force one to hurt others; what she has done is wrong, whatever she feels in her heart. "Intellectual empathy" is using observation and deductive reasoning to reason how others feel, and anyone with the capacity for reason can practice intellectual empathy. I assume if she read this, she'd respond with a medical source like the DSM that states autistics have little to no intellectual empathy or theory of mind. This certainly is the orthodox thought on the matter, but this was a weak theory based on a litany of assumptions. It has been rejected in favour of the Double Empathy Problem by many scientists, including allistics, and seems to line up far better with the experiences of the vast majority of autistics. Footnote: I disagree strongly with your take on ID for websites (due to a litany of practical concerns such as technical implementation, the inaccessibility of IDs, guardian (parent) overreach, and increasing the ability for governments to censor content) - but PornHub is a totally disingenuous analogy for her to make either way, and it's got absolutely no bearing on her flashing minors.
As an autistic person I am so so so glad u made the distinction on emotional and intellectual empathy!! I have a hard time with emotional empathy but any decent person can practice intellectual empathy.
@@paranormeow I'm the opposite, hyperempathetic. Anecdotally, hyperempathety seems more common in the autistic community than a typical or below average level of emotional empathy, funny as that sounds. I've had entire evenings taken up by empathetic reactions to someone describing their own breakup before. If I relied purely on emotional empathy, I would be way too forgiving of people who don't deserve it. It's a skill we all need to learn 💛
Just so you know, the person that is talking with Lily on those clips is someone on her community called Lolo. Mikaila didn't appear on any of them. It's still concerning that Lolo would defend Lily. They were the person that said to be 10 when they started following her and Lily pretends to be shocked.
@@EssenceOfThought No worries, I am sure it was an honest mistake and it's not like it made any of their words any less wrong. Mikaila has joined on Lily flashing to the audience so I think she would have agreed with everything if she had been there.
I hate the fact that the Lolo you mentioned here is the EXACT LOLO I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT A WHILE BACK! I mentioned this in a large comment on the previous video (even got a response from Levi Bird) and in another large comment on this video. Now the thing here is... How are we supposed to tell her this...
58:07 Its interesting listening to this as an agender who has stopped trying to tell my coworkers to use they/them. Never once did my coworkers try to go on about how hard it was, they just never seemed to remember. My friends were the ones who would self depreciate as they learned to use they/them for me, as people who had known me for years as she/her. They have since completely got my pronouns and new name down, and are among the few I feel safe being out with.
the insanity of lily with her transmisogyny towards ethel is like. never once does she use she. its always they, or he. ben shapiro literally does that to trans ppl he reacts to so he avoids A. misgendering obviously so ppl get on his ass and B. he doesnt have to use their pronouns because he hates trans ppl so its yippee for him, like great, even lily is utilizing how transphobes refuse to use our prns. i mean i dont expect her to alternate but seeing the context of her CONSTANT misgendering it feels like shes just doing it so she can avoid being called out for it lol shes viscious
A message to any people who think that what Lily said or did in the claims made “wasn’t that bad”: yes it is that bad. Yes it is transphobic to reinforce the idea that NonBinary people’s pronouns are difficult, as an example. No, this isn’t ‘making a big deal out of nothing’, it’s calling out and dismantling his a predictor acts and the harm that predator does to multiple communities while under the guise of championing and supporting said communities. Try to unwire your brain from the Cis/heteronormative ideals you’ve had ingrained subconsciously in you. Small acts of violence are still violence. Keep fighting
when you have so few logical counterarguments that you think you’ll get one-up on the person calling you out by purposefully giving them a childish nickname really? “absence of thought” as a stand in for “essence of thought?” bet lily was real proud of herself for that one, so childish
ironic how she tries to claim that you being aggressive is an excusable reason to keep misgendering you as a man even though shes been wayyyy more aggressive than youve ever been
I can’t believe she’s still on youtube after all of this. Apparently she’s been deleting all the comments that are calling her out. I seriously don’t know how some people still defend her, she literally said she wrote stockholm, she posted that nsfw stream in a space where it wasn’t meant to be seen (and refused to warn people of what it was, knowing that a child would see it,) she misgendered you *very clearly on purpose,* she encouraged someone to groom a child and we know for a fact that all of this happened. I’m so frustrated I swear to god-
I mean everything else aside, lily misgendering you is just so like.... Slimey and gross. There are trans ppl in my life who I HATE who I've accidentally misgendered, and I genuinely still feel guilty about that. But she just doubles down so hard. If someone treated her like this she'd lose her mind. But you're very mature and put together through all of this!! Thank u for bringing this behavior to light!!
im probably beating the same drum you've heard many times over at this point but thanks again for this series. i'm one of the folks who found lily as a young (then) girl, i started watching her before she even transitioned and only stopped a couple years ago. like to give reference on how long ago i started watching her, i remember when Glass of Water as a series was introduced and i originally disliked it. i'm 21 now, so i spent my entire teenager-dom in her audience. ive been working my way through your playlist, collecting my thoughts before i bring it up in my next therapy appointment. im not sure why im even commenting this. i guess just, thanks for making this series. even tho i stopped engaging with her nearly 2 years ago (i think she blocked me on tumblr? idk exactly why, but i have had suspicions that make more sense now) i am only now letting myself reevaluate my relationship to her and her content, and how being in that environment affected me.
I don't get disturbed by a lot, I can watch some really disturbing stuff and I'm not phased, but this creeps me out because something like this happened to me. She makes my blood boil.
As someone who was aware of the whole controversy behind her and yet was convinced for a month of trying out her videos that she was alright, let me tell you, she is especially good at proposing a facade of the "brutally honest mother-like person who simply wants the best for everyone" I've come across another youtuber who had a similar attitude, along with an old friend who manipulated me like that and my own mother (except my mother is not as cunning and does a bad job at hiding her red flags when she plays the savior role). Oftentimes, the most real/honest seeming people are the most fake.
Thank you for introducing me to the term "transmisia." I looked it up, got annoyed for a second that they made a term to replace "transphobia," realized that I've always been lowkey annoyed by transphobia/homophobia being called "phobias" as if they were the same as being afraid of spiders/dirt/etc, and now I'll adopt that into my vocabulary along with homomisia. Sometimes I need a wake-up call to keep an open mind.
As an Asexual person I've always preferred the term "queer" for the LGBTQ+ community. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against gay people, I just find using "Gay" as an umbrella term for the LGBTQ+ as exclusionary. I mean I'm obviously not straight and never have been (I mean when I grew up reading Harry Potter I thought everyone going "OMG! Harry/ Draco is so hot!" missed the important points of the books (Magic, dragons & deep themes)) but I'm not gay either. Literally my thoughts about sexuality are "meh" so I prefer using Queer to describe myself.
I was able to bypass the restrictions when I was 15 by making a google account where I said I was 18. You don't need I.D at all whatsoever. I am also Canadian so there's that, that is scary knowing that my country doesn't have basic child protection like that.
i noticed a tone indicator in one of the other videos, thought that was nice. you cant exactly tell when something is sarcasm when you're reading it- saved me some confusion.
there's also the angle that lily's style of video appeals a lot to younger tweens and teens-- i consumed HUGE amounts of rant/analysis videos at that age because i was mad at the world and loved to see someone just as mad as me. coincidentally, as soon as i grew out of that, i stopped watching her content nearly as much. the specific way she frames herself as smarter, more correct, and more marginalized than anyone else reminds me a Lot of onision, actually, who i watched at the same time (i grew out of both as soon as i developed higher levels of empathy and cognitive reasoning). she's nowhere near as bad, but the pattern is strikingly similar.
Thank you for this series. Its something that bothered me when i saw a video tracing lily's username history and evelution linking her to stalkhome and the stuff in that first put doubts in my head. Then your first video came out and i dropped my patron of her. And now its just more and more evedence.
Thank you and your team for your continuous work covering this topic. I discovered your channel because of your videos on Lily Orchard, not really knowing of or expecting the severity of what herself and her partners have perpetuated. It's seriously disturbing and it's very much evident with the few videos you've done alone that a person such as Lily shouldn't have a platform, especially one that revolves around or attracts minor's attention.
I was about to comment about the IDing bit. I swear I don't remember EVER having being IDed, but then again Lily Admits that Grandfathering people in is a thing, which may have happened with this minor, defending on HOW new this system is. Again, if we were to believe her. The suggestion of using TH-cam analytics for ages...even if we're to take it at fact value as true, I highly doubt your sudden increase in minors when you covered Lily was coincidental... In regards to Queer, I did disagree with both of you for different reasons. As a kid I remember it being used in the same way as people would say "That's gay" in a negative connetation and to insult, however, I have also soon so many people of the community use it that it has been reclaimed so I disagreed with EoT that it was never really a slur, but I disagree with Lily the idea that the word hasn't been reclaimed by the LGBT+ community. Wow, to call you "Right Wing" would be like calling Brois Johnson "Completely competent and honest individual who does all he can to help people and cares more for everyone than anyone else." which is just a total denial of reality. Didn't about the Karen thing. I only know "Karen" as a term for making fun of white/white passing women (who are often the majority) screaming about something due to their extreme privilege, usually being anti-maskers and complaining to the store manager about the cashier being black.
Oh, I never said it was never really a slur, I merely talked about who was largely responsible for normalizing it in allocishet culture. Until then the word 'homosexual' was mostly used, but then when the allocishets heard the gays™ use it, they went ahead and pejoratised both since they had no desire to differentiate between the two. I went into more detail in the original video.
@@EssenceOfThought ahh I must've remembered it wrong. I did make a comment at the time. That said, still agree that it's not a slur and has been reclaimed that I use it myself as a descriptor.
I first came across lily with a video that was talking about the flaws in legend of korra, 5 minutes in I had to stop watching as she had already lied and misrepresented parts of the show and as far as I knew she was just a dishonest youtuber... I have since learned she is way worse than that (I liked legend of korra and was curious about what criticism of it was out there but just couldn't watch through a long video when they were lying out the gate about the show)
ah wow I remember the beef with Josh and Lily. Even 12 year old me felt like it was just two sad adults yelling at each other. I used to like Josh's content. Its stuff like this that makes me glad I stayed out of the brony fandom as a kid beyond being a passive observer.
Didn't expect a video abt a predator to teach me the true origins of the slur Queer, and why we have reclaimed it. You have made me more confident and happy in using the term queer to define my sexual and romantic attraction, and even the type of relationships I desire - Queerian, a queer loves queer relationship :) You earned a sub just for that validation, thanks for the early-morning happy tears :D Much love, can't wait to binge watch more of your content and see how your video production improves, I adore it so far and I can sense the potential and future you hold!
TY for making these videos on LilyOrchard. I watch her content and I had no idea about the vast majority of this. A lot of the critical content of her seems to come from the far-right or just extremely transphobic people. So I was never very sure what to take as fact or not. Regarding queer though, that may be the history regarding the word "queer" in other countries. But in my country, it is basically used in place of the F slur. It is very much used as a slur here and would be the main homophobic + transphobic slur targeted at LGBT+ people.
Tbf it’s not uncommon for people to F-slur themselves either, in English, anyway. People were doing it before social media, and if you hang around in mlm spaces they’re definitely doing it now, too, and not in a sexual way, in a matter-of-fact way.
I'm so lucky i never watched that SU video of lily's i got reccomended when i was younger. I was so much of a rabid Steven universe fan that i never would've touched some one who hated it with a 50ft pole and i'm kinda thankful for it now
While there’s some truth to her video in a very a broken clock can right twice day way it’s her sheer vitriol is what makes it feel so off. Critique and criticism should always be about how the creator and/or current and/or future creation should work and better their work in the future, unbias and all. Using yourself to say your better than said work is not something you should use in critique. Atleast my two cents
Same!! Unfortunately as a young brony I got into her earlier stuff and read Stockholm out of pure curiosity, took me years later when I was about 16 to realise how utterly fucked up it all was. The fact she still has an active fanbase v much concerns me
The TH-cam age verification system is very broken. I'm a minor, yet by only putting my debit card info in, I have access to everything 18+. (havent watched the whole video yet so dont know if this is brought up but hey, its here now)
It doesn't come up since it's largely besides the point to her audience which is mostly from the US and (possibly) Canada since they don't have said restrictions in place to begin with, though thanks for informing me! It's good to be aware of this stuff.
Just to add to this! A lot of minors end up getting their own debit card at around the age of sixteen. That was the age I obtained one and I reside within the EU.
its kind of hilarious that Lily compares you to Vaush because thats exactly who she immediately reminded me of lol when you played clips of her. Condescending, self absorbed, self righteous, rude, a bully, with a voice that is grating to listen to. the list goes on.
just a little thing. Lilly said calling kh a kids game is reductive, but she has said in her videos multiple times that calling content for kids what it is (content for kids) isn’t reductive, and is what people who want to creep on kids insist on saying so they can be in kids’ spaces. Just food for thought
I really admire how you took the horrible things she said about you and used them to make this well structured argument that will educate people on serious issues. You're amazing.
Discovered Lili earlier this week. This video popped up today because of the algorithm most likely. I was going to brush it off as youtuber drama, but I'm glad I clicked. Never slammed the unsub so hard and fast in my life.
*Apologies if any of this information is mentioned in the video. I have not yet watched the entire thing, and am only near the timestamp listed. I simply wanted to share a point I believe is relevant.* 32:34 It is funny that Lily uses this as an argument. A a Canadian man myself, I am *also* aware of my laws. Her claim that Canada's age of consent is void of "close in age" restrictions/exemptions is false. Though the third I mention is not an age restriction/exemption specifically, it still relevantly applies so I will consider for convenience of conversation that there are, 'technically,' three. 1. A minor twelve or thirteen years of age can legally consent to sexual activity with a partner less than two years older than them. 2. A minor fourteen or fifteen years of age can legally consent to sexual activity with a partner who is less than five years older than them. Now, the previous two are technically not relevant, but already contradict her claim that none exist whatsoever and is more my pettiness to bring up. But, while the third isn't specifically a "close in age" restriction, it certainly applies to her argument. Section 153 of the Criminal Code of Canada prohibits sexual activity with a person *under eighteen* if: 1. If they are in "a position of trust or authority" over the minor, 2. If they are in "a relationship of dependency" with said minor, and 3. *If the relationship is considered "exploitative".* This was a law expanded on in Bill C-2 in 2005. The definition of "exploitative" in this case is to be defined by the judge presiding over a case and are circumstantial, but they depend on the age of the minor and the age gap over-all, and the power dynamic/circumstance of development of a relationship. An example of relationships deemed "exploitative" have been relationships developed through a power dynamic of a media figure/influence, or *over the internet.* Mind you, these were made before the age of consent was changed, and still applies between adults and people under eighteen, despite the age of consent. It may not apply directly to the streams in question, but it would, technically, apply regardless to the countless other sexual interactions she has had over the internet with minors. This doesn't even count the child pornography. Little fun fact! While it is not in several regions, in Canada, possession, creation, or distribution of fictional and/or non-visual child pornography is *illegal.* To quote section 163.1 of the Criminal Code of Canada, "In this section, child pornography means (a) a photographic, film, video or other visual representation, *whether or not it was made by electronic or mechanical means,* (i) that shows a person who is or is depicted as being under the age of eighteen years and is engaged in or is depicted as engaged in explicit sexual activity, or (ii) the dominant characteristic of which is the depiction, for a sexual purpose, of a sexual organ or the anal region of a person under the age of eighteen years; (b) any *written material,* visual representation or audio recording that advocates or counsels sexual activity with a person under the age of eighteen years that would be an offence under this Act; (c) any *written material whose dominant characteristic is the description, for a sexual purpose, of sexual activity with a person under the age of eighteen years that would be an offence under this Act; or* (d) any audio recording that has as its dominant characteristic the description, presentation or representation, for a sexual purpose, of sexual activity with a person under the age of eighteen years that would be an offence under this Act." Note that (b) also includes works that advocate towards sexual activity with a minor. The creation, distribution, and access of child pornography is, obviously, also prohibited under the Criminal Code. This would, likely, be applicable to "Stockholm" and other works of hers, considering the several graphic and intentionally sexually gratifying descriptions of the intercourse involving the CMC, both with each-other and adults. Therefore, she is not only contradicting herself, but contradicting the written, set in stone law in her statements. Will she likely be charged for any of this? No. Does the fact remain that it is illegal regardless? Yes. Understandably, in some cases, many may decide to argue that just because the law condemns something, it does not mean it is morally wrong. Though, in cases like this, as a transgender, gay, - or should I say to the queen of throwing hissy fits, *queer* - disabled man whose accommodation and mere existence has been pushed against by the law, I stand to argue that some laws are there for a god damn reason. I'm in no way a patriot, quite the opposite, but god is this woman an embarrassment to my country.
@EssenceOfThought Normally I don't comment on videos, but the part about what Queer truly means blows me away. As someone who has recently come as a trans man (especially a trans man of color), I never knew I needed such an important and vital piece of information. Unfortunately I wish the circumstances of which I learned this information could have been different. I was never a fan of Lilly, but I guess I watched their videos because I was young and uninformed and I felt like no one had the same views about LGBT rights. It's awful learning that she's like this and I'm glad I'm getting this information from a reliable source.
44:13 @EssenceOfThought baby, you literally have taught me something new today here! I honestly had no idea that queer historically meant that! Been out for 7 years; however, I was raised within a VERY conservative independent fundamental baptist church environment and being afro-latin (African and Latin descent), we ofc don’t have access to quality education, let alone LGBTQ+ education. I always used queer, but only here and there. As I learned more about the LGBTQ+ “community”, ive SEEN and experienced how Gay^TM “men” (meaning white cis men from well-off backgrounds) has colonized everything that black/brown trans, queers, and women both fought for and EARNED (as an LGBTQ+ activist myself, primarily for queers), only to be left out of the celebrations that all these gay men did NOTHING to help with. Gay men steal our spaces, discriminate against our skin tones, gender identities, and bodies, and fucking price us out of them! Truly disgusting. Think ill be using Queer alot more now. There, thats my New Years Resolution 😂🎉
Man I remember being a fan of lily before she came out as Trans and was friends with joshscorcher...then it just got worse and worse with being a bad friend,not taking critisism,being rude and abusive to people and now this....
Been following Lily Orchard's videos for a long time (like back in her MLP days, before the big Steven Universe vid that she made) and I noticed both on her videos and on her tumblr, she always, *always* defaulted to using ableist language such as Stupid/Moron/Idiot etc. I've kindly tried asking her to stop, but she just plain does not care. Even if you had sources on why such words are rooted in ableism, she just genuinely doesn't care at all. I'm now understanding why that is. Because abusive people don't care if they are speaking to others in an abusive way. They are un-apologetically abusive.
that part about joshscorcher is gut-wrenching. i used to watch his old top 10 videos all the time as an adolescent, they were a major source of comfort for me
The Picture of her in the thumbnail is totally traced from an episode of the Harley Quinn show. Idk if that is important but it's just something I noticed
As a trans woman who has a past with grooming and abuse, thank you for taking a stand against her. I really can't express enough my disdain for the trans people who do genuinely fucked up shit and hide behind their queerness acting like any criticism of them is homophobic/transphobic because it's an effective emotionally manipulative way to sway people to their side and make the person speaking out be quiet: behavior I've encountered plenty from real world abusers (almost always conservative and privileged people, though not always as she seems to be keen to mimic them). She really can't be trusted with an audience like she has that believes only what she says, she knows exactly how to be dogmatic and emotionally twist people into defending her (which is especially twisted since she knows that's a real persecution most of her audience and she herself faces, and would be sympathetic and believable). I'm a hypersexual kinkster (this shit either does that or makes you sex-repulsed and unable to enjoy most of your sexuality) and seeing this behavior and type of content defended so commonly by proshippers and the people taken in by that rhetoric who will die on the hill of defending it has disillusioned me and made me distance myself from online queer and adult communities (despite the closest thing to a job I have being as a NSFW commission artist). You handle content trigger warnings much better than a good half of them anyways (most people don't like thinking about the unspeakably horrible worst thing that will probably ever happen to them (as someone who's also severely disabled and has been in an actual car accident since that gave me PTSD that made it near impossible to get around in the USA and made me bedridden, I'd rather go through that again and than have gone through the sexual trauma I went through)).
I'm not done with this video. In fact, it's late and I'm going to bed, so I'll get back to it. That being said, I used to be a fan of Lily's. I found it strange that I kept seeing statements she's been "harassed" and/or "stalked," so I started looking for things to see why this happens SO. MANY. TIMES because yeah, this is a pattern at this point. Color me shocked when *this* is what I find, and yes, I've found those videos about the fanfic, too. Thoroughly disgusted. Thank you for making this and providing proof.
I am so sorry that the furry community pushed you out. As a furry myself, I wish I could say that I couldn't believe it. But there is no community that is able to escape toxicity.
I don’t know if this has been pointed out, but I despise her use of the word “malding” against you- with it being a combination of the words “mad” and “balding” it doesn’t sit well with me to use this term on trans people at all considering how real of a struggle balding is for many walks of trans people. This may be nitpicky but it really bothered me
It's interesting how she justifies misgendering Ethel by appealing to their supposed aggression when you consider how she dismissed my criticism: she asserted that I thought I was right just because I presented myself calmly, she accused me of having fragile masculinity, and she continues to disparage me as an over-sensitive man.
Indeed, this is how she speaks of many (most?) of the men she critiques. While I'm not about to defend the likes of Josh Scorcher, Dr Wolf, Silverquill and Toonkritic, I will point out that each of these men have been bashed as sensitive and fragile, *not* aggressive, even though half of them are predators and predation is an intrinsically aggressive act.
Lily has demonstrated a consistent pattern of relying on the stereotype of men having fragile egos and demanding to be coddled and catered to, not the stereotype of them being aggressive and violent. Yet, the moment a transfem person is involved, she suddenly and completely changes her framing.
I won't say this is a blatant example of transmisogyny. I will, however, heavily imply it.
I'm passingly familiar with the Toonkritic problem, but I haven't heard much of anything about the other three mentioned. (I tend to miss a lot of fandom drama, since I"m not heavily involved.)
I tried to watch some of Lily Orchard's earlier stuff, and found it to be at best shallow and inconsequential; and at worst to be profoundly and glaringly bad, very self-serving and full of gross and blatant misrepresentations of her targets. I never understood why she was so popular.
@@EphemeralTao | So, Josh Scorcher (AKA Josh Burner) is a former friend of hers (and a fellow predator, for the record) who she quite literally uses as the face of fragile masculinity. Have you ever seen that picture of a man crying in a bathtub that Lily mockingly uses whenever she thinks people are too sensitive? That was Josh, and the reason that picture exists is because he did that to mock the idea of being personally offended by nothing (e.g. cartoon criticism). So yeah, irony.
As for Dr Wolf and Silverquill, I don't know anything about them outside of what happened with Toonkritic. What I'm referring to is how Lily criticised them for preaching "forgiveness as the path to healing" not out of any regard for Toonkritic's victims, but because conflict makes them uncomfortable. Now, that criticism is absolutely valid, but it doesn't have to be built on framing Dr Wolf and Silverquill as particularly fragile, and that framing actually does Toon's victims (and, in fact, all victims) a disservice.
How is it a disservice? Because the vast majority of people buy into the idea of forgiveness as a path to healing in order to avoid holding abusers accountable or reckoning with the abuse that occurred, and that's not a result of fragility but of abuse culture, a structural problem with society. Saying that it's fragility is like saying that transmisia is a result of a personal lack of empathy or respect, but no, the fact that this empathy/respect deficit only occurs when a trans person is involved (e.g. preferred names for people who hate their legal names are fine, until a trans person shows up, then suddenly legal names are mandatory) shows that this is a targeted attack on trans people.
The way she talks about men she dislikes comes across to me as an attempt to give off 'girlboss energy': a woman calling men out for being fragile is very attractive to certain people (and this may or may not include young girls and other young people assigned female at birth, just sayin'), and it helps bolster Lily's image as a strong woman who, despite being marginalised, takes no shit. It's not just a personal choice: it's a framing that she chooses even when it's wrong, because it benefits her. So, hopefully you can see why it's a red flag that she pivots to the "aggressive" framing the moment a transfem person is involved.
Hopefully this helps to contextualise what I was saying. By the way, sorry if I went off on a bit of a tangent. It's just that your response gave me an opportunity to expand on what I was saying in a way that I thought others could benefit from.
P.S. Our coverage of Josh's predatory behaviour, and Lily enthusiastically encouraging it, for anyone who's interested: th-cam.com/video/qQTvw1L258U/w-d-xo.html
I will add that calling a Trans man overly emotional and as having fragile masculinity. . .
Not. A good look there, lily.
It's somewhat mitigated by the fact she is using it on cis men too, but...
It still irks me the wrong way.
@@theaureliasys6362 | "It's somewhat mitigated by the fact she is using it on cis men too …"
I also felt that way but, after taking a moment to think about it, I don't think that's true at all. After all, it's not like she accuses me of fragile masculinity in a misguided attempt to be affirming; it's not like she's treating me the same way as cis men because that's the only way she knows how to treat a man. She's doing it to erase that I'm trans so that she can dismiss me as an ignorant, privileged misogynist.
She was rather explicit about it, too: when I first criticised her, she told her fans that she refused to listen to 40 minutes of "mansplaining" about sexual assault, as if I wasn't speaking from years of lived experience. This is actually what motivated me to independently coin the term 'transmisandry'.
Even if we ignore that, though, I think it's very difficult to call a trans man fragile per se without being harmful. We have to remember that trans men experience a lifetime of being dismissed as too emotional. Not only does that condition us to second-guess ourselves and downplay our grievances when we're accused of fragility, but it's something that never actually stops. Even after medical transition, I've noticed that, almost every time I call cis men out on their misogyny, they stop treating me like a man and start treating me like I'm making something out of nothing or even like I'm mentally ill.
Actually, even though Lily isn't a cis man, she did this exact same thing: she accused me of being delusional when I called her out on perpetuating patriarchal structures. It's not like Lily is unaware of this harmful stereotype: she's banking on it. (Though, to be clear, Lily's approach is distinct from cis men's approach: she didn't offer to reward me with Dude Acceptance Points for dropping my criticism and agreeing with her. I just want to make that clear so that this can't be used to paint Lily as a cis man when she isn't one.)
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more it feels like Lily called me 'hysterical' but with a hastily added coat of blue paint.
I’m sorry Silver Quill is a WHAT
*calls you a terf* - *also calls you a guy in the same breath*
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
Hypocritical...
It's so fucking interesting that Lily apparently thinks 'queer' is a slur, but has no issue tossing around terms like 'tenderqueer' without any thought.
I rushed to see if anyone was talking about this in the comments as soon as I heard her say it. Like what??? Wdym you think queer is a slur and don’t like it when people use it but you’re fully willing to call other people tenderqueers as an insult??????
i know this is a year old but it's almost as if she wants it to be one so she can use it as one. was also super telling that she called people freaks imo
This would be like if someone said Black people shouldn't reclaim the N word while in the same breath calling another black person a House-(Hard R)
Queer isn't a slur but more so a term used for certain demographics and while it has been used as an insult is isn't inherently a slur.
The fa- word however is one
I find it telling that Lily constantly misgenders you because you "act like a debate bro" and yet when SHE is misgendered for her aggressive tendencies it's unforgivable transphobia and she constantly points out that no one would willingly misgender someone if they knew they were cis.
Perhaps she thinks her own transness gives her the right to make tranphobic remarks about her critics. Ironically The way she reacts to complaints about her predatory behavior is very similar to how Vaush does. She is the last person who should be arguing that misgendering is ok based on how similar a person acts to Vaush.
That's the part that really gets me. A lot of her critics that make TH-cam videos like EOT call out people who misgender her and only really hate on Lily to a strong extent as an excuse to be transphobic, so it is frustrating to see that when it comes to trans content creators she doesn't get along with she instantly misgenders and demeans their identity.
Lily sounds exactly like the hundreds of douchy dudebro unrepentant predator cis men on this fucking site, so the fact that she justifies misgendering someone because of how they sound is fucking hilarious to me, especially since, in my subjective opinion, Essence has a MUCH more feminine voice than Lily does.
And by Lily’s standards, “acting like a debate bro” means “you’re holding me accountable for my actions and I don’t like it” lmao
In regards to her racism: she also wrote Twilight as a black woman who violently abuses her white wife in one of her vile fanfictions.
Oh yeah, Stockholm...That was a thing
Oh good lord really? WTF?!?!
I mean, on its own that's just character. Not all black people are nice, just like not all white people are nice. Now, in _context,_ however, yeah, I definitely see where you're coming from.
@@fructosecornsyrup5759 [TL;DR at the end] I know you get where OP is coming from, but I hope it's okay I add my own two cents as well to further elaborate on this.
In a general sense, yes, there are people part of marginalized groups that are terrible people, I mean we're talking about Lily Orchard here, a predatory trans woman.
However, when it comes to creating characters and a world to place them in, while it's fine to include bad people that just happen to be marginalized, personally I think you should also include a character that's a good person of the same marginalized group. So, if you were to write a predatory trans woman, and that's the only transfemme rep you have, that's a pretty big issue considering that society is constantly painting transfemmes as "men in dresses/wigs that want to diddle your kids". It furthers the stigma against these people, you feel?
Stockholm Twilight being the only portrayal of a black woman in the story (one with a main role, anyway) and being an abusive r*pist, even forgetting the kind of person Lily is, doesn't leave the best taste in the reader's mouth. Especially when in the story, she's written as a character worthy of sympathy and praise for trying to get better despite harming Ascentia severely. Not to mention Rainbow Dash being a darker skinned intersex woman and also being a predator, with the cause being her intersexism. Which is not only a blatant misrepresentation of intersex folk, but a very harmful one.
People with a brain know that anyone can be an arse or a nonce regardless of race, sexuality, and religion, but in media as it is now with representing minorities, you need a foil to the ones that ARE reprehensible. When we see abusive or predatory white people on the screen, we know not all white people are like that, but minorities are not given that same courtesy. Bigots are very loud, after all.
TL;DR: We know not every marginalized person is kind, but as you said, context matters and in media we need an opposition to also show not every marginalized person is a complete freakazoid for those in the back that lack common sense. Else stigmas are further pushed against these people and causes more real life harassment.
Because making stockholm worse was necessary apparently
Conflating "minors seeking out adult content" with "a specific person coaxing minors to interact with them sexually" is such a scummy thing to do for Lily, because those two things aren't even remotely the same.
I was a horny 14-year-old, too. I watched quite a bit of porn, I read erotic fanfiction, I pirated R-rated movies and tv shows. Those experiences always felt very safe to me because my actions were entirely my own - I was merely a curious observer, the people who created said content didn't even need to know I was there. If I was uncomfortable, I could immediately opt out with the click of a button.
This would NOT have been the case if these experiences were interactive, with another (potentially much older) person on the other side, using their life experience or my trust in them to push past my boundaries and coerce me into engaging with material I wasn't ready for or interested in. You know ... exactly what Lily is doing to her audience.
THAT'S the real issue at hand.
Yup, but Lily can't be honest with the situation since, if she were... well there goes her entire defense. That's why she has to constantly revise reality to suit her narrative, changing the story slightly more each time it's told.
Say it louder for the Lily Orchard stans in the back bro
THIS!! I joke about how when I was 16, I wrote my first ero-fanfic and how bad it was. But I never posted it an it was in the safety of my own journal (because I wrote fanfics in little journals you could buy anywhere. I guess to me it made it feel more like an authentic book). If it was a person who showed me a fanfic without my consent or were completely aware of what they were doing, yeah I'd be terrified even back then.
The ONLY people who don’t understand this are either creeps who wilfully misunderstand the point, or self blaming victims who are brainwashed by trauma/toxic cultures. Something tells me Lily Orchard isn’t in the second group.
yes, exactly this! teenagers seeking out explicit content isn't a new thing, but it needs to be in the safety of their own space/time or with people their own age that they trust or else it becomes a weaponization of power and a grooming tactic
Ah yes, my favorite TERF commentator: a well spoken trans woman girlboss.
Lily calling you a TERF is so unbelievably funny to me and never won't be. Thanks for being a reasonable and lovely voice for our trans community on TH-cam
Maybe it's just me, but MLMs have completely ruined the word girlboss for me. Though Ethel (I hope I got her name right and that's not just the name of one of her admins. If it is, I mean no offense, this is the second video from Essence of Thought that I watched and I don't know much about her channel) definitely appears to be a well spoken and meticulous person that makes sure not to make unfounded accusation.
Edit: Nvm, maybe I should just fucking listen.
if anything, id argue LILY is a terf lmaoo
I keep thinking back to that time Lily said about her audience "I don't THINK I'm smarter than you, I KNOW I'm smarter than you. You wouldn't be following me otherwise."
All I will say to that is "yikes".
I very much feel like Lily preaches a view that Loyalty to her is something that should be expected, and making sure her audience isn't smarter than her so that they can remain loyal. It's fascinating to observe, and speaking as someone who jumped the fence at one point, it can be intoxicating to experience first-hand.
Yh she is kind of a dick. One time her voice was fucked up and she was angry at people wishing her good health instead of talking about the video
@attilamert6973 God she is so miserable lmao
💀💀💀 Wouldn't it be ironic if fuckin rocket scientists followed her for some odd reason
My first exposure to Lily was her video about Korra, and I always found one of her statements to be really "whistle-blowy": When she's talking about the fight scenes, she mentions how several of Korra's opponents pin her arms down, and says that it's the show being "rape-coded". Which I always took that as "it's a fight with someone who can literally control the elements with their breath, why would you not try to restrain them"
That’s such a dumb and baffling complaint on Lily’s part. Avatar is an action show. How the hell else should people fight? You’re going to get someone pinned down by an opponent. Korra fights with her arms, and controls the elements with her arms. What else should they pin down, her legs? Would it be more appropriate to grab her by the waist? How else do you restrain someone?
@@gregjayonnaise8314 clearly the best move is to conk Korra on the head with an anvil like in Looney Tunes!
Oh no I guess every grappling martial art is rape coded by that logic
Bumi was able to bend with just his chin, limiting a bender in any aspect should be seen as an absolute necessity.
@@thomasraines1396 to say nothing of the water bender who literally didn't have arms lol
What I really dislike about Lily constantly misgendering you is that there's people who latch themselves into drama surrounding Lily Ochard specifically to be transphobic and content creators like you call them out, yet she doesn't do the same when it comes to people being misgendered on her behalf and in fact misgenders others herself. Hypocritical and deplorable.
Essence is a million times classier than lily could ever hope to be.
@@dyvfsdgdrgkhgderx9282 agree
She blocked me on Tumblr for unapologetically declining to scan all my letter cards at the door and IDing as queer, then characterized me as "self-flagellating" because I said it's an important word to people who don't neatly fit into a single box. As if not being able to fit neatly into a box is anything to be ashamed of.
Rewatching this and I just realized
In the part talking about tender-queers, Lily is perfectly comfortable saying queer despite insisting it's a slur
So essentially, she's perfectly fine calling her detractors what she things is a slur when it's convenient for her
@VeraBrightfeatherAfter she ragged on the creator of Steven Universe nonstop for the whole "redeeming the Diamonds" plotline and called her a nazi? Dude the hypocrisy
2020: wow I sure dislike that bad-take video essay by lily orchard.
2021: wow lily orchard really shouldn’t be giving people writing advice but at least it’s funny
2022: what’s all this about her writing about kids???
2023: fuckign CHRIST lily DELETE UR ACCOUNT 😭
Haha ikr, like when I first found out who lily was, she at least seemed like a pretty decent youtuber, but now Shes just, terrible. ugh.
oh my gosh real, at first i was like "oh, she gives really.. bad advice and has bad essays that don't understand anything, but y'know, whatever." and then i found out she apparently sexually abused her sibling as CHILDREN, groomed children, and just. wow! 😃
And what about 2024?
@@Idkanymore9029 “Damn, she’s still latching onto her account huh?…”
@@Idkanymore9029Basically 2021-2023 for the people who haven't heard about Lily Orchard since deciding she was overly negative in 2017.
It's too bad, all the small town Canadians I root for at the back of my mind end up being crappy people.
It's very rich that Lily calls you a terf when I recall that she said that she's not transphobic because she doesn't benefit from it. So basically "I'm trans so being transphobic is stupid", not "being transphobic is bad whether I'm trans or not"
At one point lily mentioned she might want kids soon. If that isn’t horrifying, I don’t know what is.
oh no
Nonononononono
Well i saw just a portion of Stockholm in a youtube video (a MLP fanfict she wrote) and i saw a disturbing link between pedo love and incest.
It pretty much a running theme.
So yeah ...
She molested her younger sister. She absolutely wants to molest her own kids next.
That is completely horrifying and terrifying
I don't want kids, and my parental instincts kicked in when she said that
To add on, apparently Lily misgenders her own family, not just her critics. Meaning she misgenders the people that she loves. Like a TERF would.
Lily has talked about habjng a "sister" who ran away. Turns out, this "sister" is actually non-binary, and Lily is just refusing to call them her sibling. Also, the sibling was assigned female at birth and raised to be a girl, so it's not a case of the sibling being transfem and Lily using a more femme term for them. She's deliberately misgendering her sibling.
She also admitted that as kids she would physically abuse this sibling over very small things. While I, as an older brother and a person with autism, understand that some kids may become more upset kver seemingly little things or fight with their siblings more, Lily allegedly laughs about these things. While i cant confirm that the sibling does or doesn't find it funny, i think the fact that Lily alleges that they ran away and havent been in contact with Lily or their parents in a long time to speak volumes about this
Surprise Surprise, said sibling had admitted that there was sexual abuse so that's even worse.
There is a terrifying difference between lily orchard in her scripted and edited videos and her unscripted off the cuff comments on twitter, tumbler and streams, its enough to make my stomach rise.
I remember watching her when I was 15 and loving her I remember feeling so happy with a mlp TH-camr will to call out creeps and bullys in the fandom.
But watching these videos makes me wonder how much of her content was bull.
Yup, it's pretty telling on which parts of her seemingly contradictory persona are acts and which parts are genuine.
Even when they don't refer to you as "he", Lily and her audience only use "they" to refer to you. Whilst I don't know your pronouns and you may go by just "they/them"; I've seen it wayyy too commonly people adressing transfems they don't like by "they/them" and not "she/her" in a way to misgender them and also having the defense of they/them being gender neutral. So many people, including OTHER TRANS FEMS refuse to call non-passing transfems "she/her". Calling someone by "they/them" when you know they don't go by it is still misgendering even if its a gender nuetral pronoun.
I think Lily refuses to acknoledge you as a trans person because it makes her victimhood of being a "poor trans women bullied by transphobic crtitics" a less acceptable excuse.
(edit, i missed the fact that someone in Lily's audience says you go by "she/they". If this is true, I still feel like they refuse to refer to you as "she")
As a non-binary person who hates the Q-word and does not want to be specifically referred to by it, I also will not police anyone else from using it to refer to themselves or identifying with it. If doing this gives anyone joy or makes them feel seen, then I have zero issue with them doing so. Me attempting to stop that would be incredibly toxic, and the fact that Lily does is something that has honestly hacked me off about Lily for a long time.
Yeah, see, this is literally the entire difference between just not liking a word and someone who is an outright bigot to people who identify with it. I honestly feel so sad for any baby queer on her audience that will feel ashamed for finally finding an identity that makes them comfortable.
It was her comparing it to wanting to be fucked by fascists that really took me by surprise (00:45:44), though it probably shouldn't have at this point.
It’s a very “only if you know me personally thing” I don’t want a stranger to call me that
i'm nonbinary and use the q-word to identify myself, but i won't tell anyone who dislikes it off for it. everyone has their own labels or lackthereof that they want to use and that's okay! massive respect.
*deep bow* As someone with the complete opposite position who maintains so much respect for my own, you give me hope for humanity.
It’s so gross how Lily loves to sneer at anyone who throws criticism toward her way and write it off as, “they’re having a temper tantrum.” She is utterly incapable of owning up to her bad behavior.
There are legitimate streaming platforms where people in “spicy work” can stream NSFW and be tipped for it. I don’t understand why it has to be on TH-cam when it goes against Terms of Service.
Because that's where her prey is. Sorry, I mean audience.
@@EssenceOfThoughtwhy haven’t TH-cam done anything yet?
I used to watch Lily because of her Disney videos. She talked about Beauty and the Beast and talked about how much she didn't like it. Now with THIS information, I think it's not because of the fact that it "gives a narrative of a woman having to fix a man". I think it's because she didn't like how after a moment, she realized that it was about open communication and trying to better yourself in order to become healthier and happier.
Sometimes I think that Lily is actually a vampire, since she can't look in a mirror to save her life
Especially when the writers had been extremely careful to make Belle falls in love with the beast when he stopped being a jerk, saves her life, gives her a library and tries to be better. She didn't fix him. He fixed himself because he saw how unfair he was.
Something I realize about lily that made me alienate myself from her is that she only cares about trans right and racism when it comes to her and making her look good. As soon as someone criticizes her, it's all out the window
Listening to her constantly misgendering you is ticking me off so freaking bad and I'm not even trans. I can't imagine how infuriating this is for you. Good grief.
I'm so happy you pointed out how white people have taken the terms "tenderqueer" and "Karen" from the Black community and used them to attack people they don't like. This is the first time I've seen a white person with a platform define them correctly, which is important because content made by Black people often doesn't reach white viewers. Black people have told me they've been saying this for years and no one listens, which is discouraging, so it's great to see that some white people who have the ability to reach others ARE listening.
I just learned who Lily Orchard is through watching your videos, but I don't think anyone needs to know her specifically to understand the patterns and themes you are discussing. Abuse is so widespread and normalized in societies with a lot of influence in the world, so it's important that people can recognize when and how it occurs. Thank you all for doing this work.
Glad I could be of help.
wait what, Karen comes from POC culture? I had no clue tbh
I thought Karen came from those r/entitled parents videos that were really popular a few years ago
I never knew Karen was rooted from the the Black community and I feel like I did half of my ancestors a disservice 😭
@@asapling those are where they were popularized in mainstream media
It's sad, enraging in fact, to see members of an oppressed and exploited group participating in the oppression and exploitation as Lily is doing. Something about how the lack of a liberating education leaves the oppressed dreaming of becoming the oppressor, to badly paraphrase Paulo Freire.
It is incredibly disturbing.
Yeah. She and Blair White are doing active harm to the community and it's so upsetting because transphobic people will see them and think that they represent the entire trans community. And since trans people are a part of the lgbt community, it reflects badly on the entire movement, making it way harder for people to stop hating us, and also giving them what they think is a valid reason to hate us.
Seems Lily and Mikaila have been having some trouble running damage control on our recent exposés, making numerous (oftentimes internally contradictory) assertions to justify Lily’s predatory behaviour, as well as racist and transmisic remarks.
always stay consistent and never back down
Burglary is still burglary even if the victim left the door unlocked.
Grooming is still grooming even if the parents let their child on the internet.
At this point Lily's just a bad person using the "good guy" label of being trans as a shield. Transpeople are still people, and just like cispeople, they can do messed up stuff.
I... appreciate the tactfulness on display of saying "more than 9000 minors", instead of "over" 9000.
It would’ve been so funny but so strange
I don't get people who can't just answer a simple question without exploding into a "ur dumb if ur asking" rant. Just say "sometimes I show my boobs" or whatever. One sentence. Two seconds to say. Thanks for the informative video. I unsubscribed from her after seeing this. Very grateful TH-cam recommended me this video, I can't stand creators who treat their younger audience members like that.
I think it stops being confusing when you realize that lily is fucking lying and the reason she said what she said was probably because she derives sick enjoyment out of directing a minor to watch a stream where she flashes people
I was a minor once upon a time who would lie about my age to get into 18+ websites. I was a minor when I wrote my first NSFW fanfic. Knowing this, I know that people who are minors might follow or interact with me, which is why I keep all of my socials relatively PG-13 (with occasional things that could be considered NSFW, like me telling a scientific fact about sperm cells. And that was because someone wondered if a microscope they planned on buying for Christmas COULD see sperm cells out of morbid curiosity). Just because teens do stuff doesn't mean I need to enable that.
This is also why if I do anything like write or draw NSFW, I never ever put it on my public socials.
Lily should know this and try to make the internet BETTER for minors.
With the first bit about claiming to say "Click the fuck around" even IF she were telling the truth, that doesn't exhonorate her. If someone asks, you tell them. Even if they weren't a minor.
Yup.
Feels like lily is grooming her audience to accept abuse. So hostile and mean all the time
Me and my friends always say this. As someone who uses both he/him and they/them, it's incredibly telling that someone doesn't respect your pronouns, if they always default to the "they/them"
My friends will usually default to my he/him and sometimes use they/them because I am very masculine presenting, I wish to be viewed in a masculine way and so on.
Based off your avatar you might present in a more fem way, and it's just weird to me that. Lily out of everyone, goes "he... sorry THEY" Just the refusal to use the she/her at all despite how much they talk about you is so odd. It's nothing as bad as half of the things they're doing cause it's literally grooming children and such with their platform, but it gives really bad vibes of "I don't actually respect you"
it’s the same thing ben shartiro does, say the completely wrong pronoun and then default to they EVERY SINGLE TIME so that they can be transmisic while they technically cannot be called out for being transmisic.
As someone who's he/him but went by she/he/they at one point, ya, its real easy to tell when someone takes the cop oit of not actually referring to you correctly
They/them pronouns are suddenly very easy to use and be understood the second a transphobe doesn't want to she/her a trans woman.
I just real quick wanna say years ago after I heard about her mlp fanfics, I remember going to her tumblr and telling her just how disgusted I was in her actions and how she makes trans people look bad and makes me ashamed to be trans. She just responded by calling me a trump support
I know going to her tumblr was a bad idea, but I was 14 and very upset by what I’d found
the part where you said she targets children who are LGBT+ or have been bullied hit me so hard. I grew up on her content and have been on and off for a while, I felt like a part of my identity was formed by her videos and now hearing this really disgusts me. I'm glad I found this video.
I am sorry to hear that, best regards ❤
Got to the part about the "only 7% of Lily's audience are registered as minors" and holy fuck thats the exact same thing she said was bad to do, because the brony fandom claimed that only ".1% of the fanfics are child porn", which she did the math on to show that it was a lot of child pornography because of how many fanfics there actually were on the site, and she makes the exact same argument regarding her subsciber base?? Wtf?? Before i was disgusted, now im also angry. I mean i was angry before, but its worse now
Im gonna keep my comments connected to 1 comment that i original sent, got to the part where she misgendered you, and all i can think of is her Contrapoints video. To quote something she herself agreed with, in the editing of her video and a point she was trying to make, "if somebody asks you to call them they, you call them they."
It's amazing how many times Lily calls upon 'rules for thee but not for me'.
Ikr? Its such bs.. its still hard to take in everything, im having to rewatch the video a third time now actually. You're doing good work to call everything out to keep others like glade aware of what Lily and her wives do. Oh! Um, im unsure if you plan to go over this, but a channel named opal has a video from Patchwork about their own experience with Lily, which is another testimony about Lily's behaviour around minors
Yeah, about that: Opal wasn't happy with our usage of the word grooming or that victim testimony constitutes evidence. As for Patchie, I had originally planned to give him a place to speak after the Glade video but he then approached Glade under false pretenses before exploiting him to try and one up me after I criticized Jess aka Trans Girl Therapist and Luxander for talking about defending Lily (admitting to having not listened to Glade's testimony) and laughing about the fact that I was giving Glade a platform since I'm apparently like Lily. Before I called Jess out Patchie was only singing praise of the Glade video, and it's worth mentioning that Patchie constantly refers to Jess as his internet mum.
Both Patchie and Opal set about attacking the idea that a person can use their platform to groom their audiences as well as arguing that you can't believe victims and that victim testimony doesn't constitute actual evidence. Opal and Patchie were the two critics I quoted at the end of the Mackenzii piece, the ones whose name I left out as I explained Parasocial Audience Grooming in hopes that they'd back down, but they haven't. Suffice to say, I doubt they'd be very happy with me touching their testimonies.
Oh.. i wasn't aware of all that.. apologies for the suggestion i just figured it helps the case..
At this point Lilly is coming across The Big Bad Wolf - a dangerous predator who preys on children by adopting a harmless disguise which lures them in with a sense of safety.
Then she pounces.
The wolf from Little Red Riding Hood, right?
as a Canadian mixed enby person…
even my medical records have “Genderqueer” on them. And sometimes it’s “Non-Binary / Genderqueer” 🤞🏼☠️
How does it feel to live my dream?! *screaming*
Wow! Mine just don’t include a gender marker!
I'm Cis/AFAB Bisexual, and I just wanted to say that your voice is much more feminine than even mine. I think a lot of it has to do with your cadence and tone, but regardless I find it very soothing and I hope that it is not something that brings you any kind of dismorphia. I love your videos and enjoy getting your POV on things. ❤
I have to say I raised an eyebrow when she called you right wing. Isn’t Lily herself pretty much a liberal? I’m just shocked. I never watched her because I didn’t too much care for how she talked to her audience, but it sounds like she’s trying to prime her audience to ignore everything you have to say. Why would she do that if she had nothing to hide?
From her arguments she seems more neoliberal than general liberal, which is to say she wants to be free to use whatever power she can scrounge to hurt people with impunity.
From her Korra video I assumed she is a tankie. She says the worst system in the world is anarchism, followed by fascism and capitalism, which leaves only a few options.
Considering her talk about wanting to lower the age of consent....sounds Libertarian to me.
@@Ranixo286 She said WHAT?
To me it is telling a lot that she ask what youtubers don´t engage sexually with their audience...
I mean it is clear she is lying by naming these youtubers but that statement is so baseless.
Not to mention “everyone does it” has always been a shitty excuse
@@paranormeow and it’s a very revealing excuse bc everyone who uses it clearly _wants_ their behaviour to be normal.
Everyone can be doing something bad
I'm binge watching all of these videos but the bit at 58:37 hits so hard! TW: talk of misgendering
My Nan has known I'm trans for 2 and a bit years, and no progress to her not misgendering me has been made. The last time I saw her, on my birthday, my mum actively shut me when down when I went to correct nan by saying "do you see her very often? no, so don't expect her to get it right."
Which hurt, especially when I had specifically bought a badge to wear that labelled me the birthday BOY! I am constantly forced to accept that nan misgenders me by my mum and pretend it's "okay".
So ye, that bit hits way too hard.
For correction the woman in the stream used throughout this video with Lily is some British woman named Lola not Mikayla. I am just stating this for the record.
Well ahead of you. (Check the description, script, subtitles, and the following link.) - th-cam.com/video/XJ7Ewwi6034/w-d-xo.html
Gotta love how everytime anyone calls her out including misgendering Ethel just because she has an issue with her, she acts like the kind of person who'd drive a car through a parade and then proceed to blame the car for running people over and the people running the parade for being in the car's way when the cops pull her over for it.
There are many arguments that reasonable people can discuss around what mental faculties are needed to consent, how to create laws which allow for the complexities of consensual contact between minors and those who have recently passed the age of consent, how to protect legal adults from predation, where to draw the line between transgressing social norms and unwanted sexual contact...and absolutely none of them are relevant to Lily's behaviour, and she goddamn knows it.
Lily Orchard intentionally posted NSFW in a SFW chat; she doesn't have any answer for that, so she has to deflect. On a legal and moral basis, nobody but the most extremist of libertarians would argue that adults have no obligation to protect children. Her multiple callouts of predators only demonstrates that Lily Orchard does understand this, if not emphatically agrees with it.
Instead of disputing the provided arguments and evidence, she intentionally deceives her audience over and over in self-contradictory ways. Anyone who has the ability to think critically removes themselves from the audience, so the only ones left are vulnerable people who aren't able to critically assess her claims and rely on her to dictate what's happening. It's like she's trying to be some Hot Topic Tucker Carlson. If she isn't doing it on purpose, then she has profound problems with impulsivity, understanding the consequences of her actions, poor intellectual empathy, and compulsive lying. Either way she needs an intervention and to stay the hell away from children and the rest of her fanbase for the foreseeable future.
*I specify intellectual empathy, because lacking emotional empathy is a neurodivergency and doesn't make one immoral. Having a non-reaction to others' pain doesn't force one to hurt others; what she has done is wrong, whatever she feels in her heart. "Intellectual empathy" is using observation and deductive reasoning to reason how others feel, and anyone with the capacity for reason can practice intellectual empathy. I assume if she read this, she'd respond with a medical source like the DSM that states autistics have little to no intellectual empathy or theory of mind. This certainly is the orthodox thought on the matter, but this was a weak theory based on a litany of assumptions. It has been rejected in favour of the Double Empathy Problem by many scientists, including allistics, and seems to line up far better with the experiences of the vast majority of autistics.
Footnote: I disagree strongly with your take on ID for websites (due to a litany of practical concerns such as technical implementation, the inaccessibility of IDs, guardian (parent) overreach, and increasing the ability for governments to censor content) - but PornHub is a totally disingenuous analogy for her to make either way, and it's got absolutely no bearing on her flashing minors.
Thank you for making the distinction on empathy and explaining it.
Random, but you sound like a smart person, dang 😭
As an autistic person I am so so so glad u made the distinction on emotional and intellectual empathy!! I have a hard time with emotional empathy but any decent person can practice intellectual empathy.
@@paranormeow I'm the opposite, hyperempathetic. Anecdotally, hyperempathety seems more common in the autistic community than a typical or below average level of emotional empathy, funny as that sounds. I've had entire evenings taken up by empathetic reactions to someone describing their own breakup before. If I relied purely on emotional empathy, I would be way too forgiving of people who don't deserve it. It's a skill we all need to learn 💛
Just so you know, the person that is talking with Lily on those clips is someone on her community called Lolo. Mikaila didn't appear on any of them. It's still concerning that Lolo would defend Lily. They were the person that said to be 10 when they started following her and Lily pretends to be shocked.
Thanks for letting me know. I have added a note to the top of the description along with fixed the script.
@@EssenceOfThought No worries, I am sure it was an honest mistake and it's not like it made any of their words any less wrong. Mikaila has joined on Lily flashing to the audience so I think she would have agreed with everything if she had been there.
th-cam.com/video/XJ7Ewwi6034/w-d-xo.html
I hate the fact that the Lolo you mentioned here is the EXACT LOLO I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT A WHILE BACK!
I mentioned this in a large comment on the previous video (even got a response from Levi Bird) and in another large comment on this video.
Now the thing here is... How are we supposed to tell her this...
58:07 Its interesting listening to this as an agender who has stopped trying to tell my coworkers to use they/them. Never once did my coworkers try to go on about how hard it was, they just never seemed to remember. My friends were the ones who would self depreciate as they learned to use they/them for me, as people who had known me for years as she/her. They have since completely got my pronouns and new name down, and are among the few I feel safe being out with.
bring an airhorn and honk it when someone gets your pronouns wrong
they'll learn REALLL fast
the insanity of lily with her transmisogyny towards ethel is like. never once does she use she. its always they, or he. ben shapiro literally does that to trans ppl he reacts to so he avoids A. misgendering obviously so ppl get on his ass and B. he doesnt have to use their pronouns because he hates trans ppl so its yippee for him, like great, even lily is utilizing how transphobes refuse to use our prns. i mean i dont expect her to alternate but seeing the context of her CONSTANT misgendering it feels like shes just doing it so she can avoid being called out for it lol shes viscious
The more I learn, the worse it gets
Yeah.
That's generally how life works.
A message to any people who think that what Lily said or did in the claims made “wasn’t that bad”: yes it is that bad. Yes it is transphobic to reinforce the idea that NonBinary people’s pronouns are difficult, as an example.
No, this isn’t ‘making a big deal out of nothing’, it’s calling out and dismantling his a predictor acts and the harm that predator does to multiple communities while under the guise of championing and supporting said communities.
Try to unwire your brain from the Cis/heteronormative ideals you’ve had ingrained subconsciously in you.
Small acts of violence are still violence.
Keep fighting
when you have so few logical counterarguments that you think you’ll get one-up on the person calling you out by purposefully giving them a childish nickname
really? “absence of thought” as a stand in for “essence of thought?” bet lily was real proud of herself for that one, so childish
ironic how she tries to claim that you being aggressive is an excusable reason to keep misgendering you as a man even though shes been wayyyy more aggressive than youve ever been
I can’t believe she’s still on youtube after all of this. Apparently she’s been deleting all the comments that are calling her out. I seriously don’t know how some people still defend her, she literally said she wrote stockholm, she posted that nsfw stream in a space where it wasn’t meant to be seen (and refused to warn people of what it was, knowing that a child would see it,) she misgendered you *very clearly on purpose,* she encouraged someone to groom a child and we know for a fact that all of this happened. I’m so frustrated I swear to god-
I mean everything else aside, lily misgendering you is just so like.... Slimey and gross. There are trans ppl in my life who I HATE who I've accidentally misgendered, and I genuinely still feel guilty about that. But she just doubles down so hard. If someone treated her like this she'd lose her mind. But you're very mature and put together through all of this!! Thank u for bringing this behavior to light!!
im probably beating the same drum you've heard many times over at this point but thanks again for this series. i'm one of the folks who found lily as a young (then) girl, i started watching her before she even transitioned and only stopped a couple years ago. like to give reference on how long ago i started watching her, i remember when Glass of Water as a series was introduced and i originally disliked it. i'm 21 now, so i spent my entire teenager-dom in her audience. ive been working my way through your playlist, collecting my thoughts before i bring it up in my next therapy appointment. im not sure why im even commenting this. i guess just, thanks for making this series. even tho i stopped engaging with her nearly 2 years ago (i think she blocked me on tumblr? idk exactly why, but i have had suspicions that make more sense now) i am only now letting myself reevaluate my relationship to her and her content, and how being in that environment affected me.
I don't get disturbed by a lot, I can watch some really disturbing stuff and I'm not phased, but this creeps me out because something like this happened to me. She makes my blood boil.
I honestly don’t know how they’re still on tumblr cause I big chunk of the site dislikes her.
Everyday I wonder how she got me to watch her content and trust her
Because she is a master of manipulation with a literal decade of practice under her belt. So don't be hard on yourself, she fooled me too.
As someone who was aware of the whole controversy behind her and yet was convinced for a month of trying out her videos that she was alright, let me tell you, she is especially good at proposing a facade of the "brutally honest mother-like person who simply wants the best for everyone"
I've come across another youtuber who had a similar attitude, along with an old friend who manipulated me like that and my own mother (except my mother is not as cunning and does a bad job at hiding her red flags when she plays the savior role).
Oftentimes, the most real/honest seeming people are the most fake.
"Essence is some weird fucking terf"
Essence: marked green on shinigami eyes
me: *intense thinking emoji*
Thank you for introducing me to the term "transmisia." I looked it up, got annoyed for a second that they made a term to replace "transphobia," realized that I've always been lowkey annoyed by transphobia/homophobia being called "phobias" as if they were the same as being afraid of spiders/dirt/etc, and now I'll adopt that into my vocabulary along with homomisia. Sometimes I need a wake-up call to keep an open mind.
As an Asexual person I've always preferred the term "queer" for the LGBTQ+ community. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against gay people, I just find using "Gay" as an umbrella term for the LGBTQ+ as exclusionary. I mean I'm obviously not straight and never have been (I mean when I grew up reading Harry Potter I thought everyone going "OMG! Harry/ Draco is so hot!" missed the important points of the books (Magic, dragons & deep themes)) but I'm not gay either. Literally my thoughts about sexuality are "meh" so I prefer using Queer to describe myself.
this, i never even realized people considered queer a slur until now
I was able to bypass the restrictions when I was 15 by making a google account where I said I was 18. You don't need I.D at all whatsoever. I am also Canadian so there's that, that is scary knowing that my country doesn't have basic child protection like that.
Not related to the video but I really appreciate that you captioned this whole thing properly, thank you for that :0
seconding this!!
i noticed a tone indicator in one of the other videos, thought that was nice. you cant exactly tell when something is sarcasm when you're reading it- saved me some confusion.
there's also the angle that lily's style of video appeals a lot to younger tweens and teens-- i consumed HUGE amounts of rant/analysis videos at that age because i was mad at the world and loved to see someone just as mad as me. coincidentally, as soon as i grew out of that, i stopped watching her content nearly as much. the specific way she frames herself as smarter, more correct, and more marginalized than anyone else reminds me a Lot of onision, actually, who i watched at the same time (i grew out of both as soon as i developed higher levels of empathy and cognitive reasoning). she's nowhere near as bad, but the pattern is strikingly similar.
I love the fact that the tenderqueer label (as used properly) just refers specifically to the Lily and the type of person Lily is, in general.
did she really call a trans girl a turf omg get a grip
Thank you for this series. Its something that bothered me when i saw a video tracing lily's username history and evelution linking her to stalkhome and the stuff in that first put doubts in my head. Then your first video came out and i dropped my patron of her. And now its just more and more evedence.
No problem! Glad I could be of help.
If liberation were a scaffolding, Lily would step on everyone else to get to the mid-level, then kick the ladders out.
Thank you and your team for your continuous work covering this topic. I discovered your channel because of your videos on Lily Orchard, not really knowing of or expecting the severity of what herself and her partners have perpetuated. It's seriously disturbing and it's very much evident with the few videos you've done alone that a person such as Lily shouldn't have a platform, especially one that revolves around or attracts minor's attention.
Thank you for taking the time to listen, it's greatly appreciated.
I was about to comment about the IDing bit. I swear I don't remember EVER having being IDed, but then again Lily Admits that Grandfathering people in is a thing, which may have happened with this minor, defending on HOW new this system is. Again, if we were to believe her.
The suggestion of using TH-cam analytics for ages...even if we're to take it at fact value as true, I highly doubt your sudden increase in minors when you covered Lily was coincidental...
In regards to Queer, I did disagree with both of you for different reasons. As a kid I remember it being used in the same way as people would say "That's gay" in a negative connetation and to insult, however, I have also soon so many people of the community use it that it has been reclaimed so I disagreed with EoT that it was never really a slur, but I disagree with Lily the idea that the word hasn't been reclaimed by the LGBT+ community.
Wow, to call you "Right Wing" would be like calling Brois Johnson "Completely competent and honest individual who does all he can to help people and cares more for everyone than anyone else." which is just a total denial of reality.
Didn't about the Karen thing. I only know "Karen" as a term for making fun of white/white passing women (who are often the majority) screaming about something due to their extreme privilege, usually being anti-maskers and complaining to the store manager about the cashier being black.
Oh, I never said it was never really a slur, I merely talked about who was largely responsible for normalizing it in allocishet culture. Until then the word 'homosexual' was mostly used, but then when the allocishets heard the gays™ use it, they went ahead and pejoratised both since they had no desire to differentiate between the two. I went into more detail in the original video.
@@EssenceOfThought ahh I must've remembered it wrong. I did make a comment at the time. That said, still agree that it's not a slur and has been reclaimed that I use it myself as a descriptor.
I first came across lily with a video that was talking about the flaws in legend of korra, 5 minutes in I had to stop watching as she had already lied and misrepresented parts of the show and as far as I knew she was just a dishonest youtuber... I have since learned she is way worse than that
(I liked legend of korra and was curious about what criticism of it was out there but just couldn't watch through a long video when they were lying out the gate about the show)
ah wow I remember the beef with Josh and Lily. Even 12 year old me felt like it was just two sad adults yelling at each other. I used to like Josh's content. Its stuff like this that makes me glad I stayed out of the brony fandom as a kid beyond being a passive observer.
Same, glad my interest in mlp never really compelled me to find a community
holy shit i never knew about the origins of “queer is a slur” beyond “its terf dogwhistle” so thank you for further explaining it!
Didn't expect a video abt a predator to teach me the true origins of the slur Queer, and why we have reclaimed it. You have made me more confident and happy in using the term queer to define my sexual and romantic attraction, and even the type of relationships I desire - Queerian, a queer loves queer relationship :)
You earned a sub just for that validation, thanks for the early-morning happy tears :D
Much love, can't wait to binge watch more of your content and see how your video production improves, I adore it so far and I can sense the potential and future you hold!
TY for making these videos on LilyOrchard. I watch her content and I had no idea about the vast majority of this. A lot of the critical content of her seems to come from the far-right or just extremely transphobic people. So I was never very sure what to take as fact or not.
Regarding queer though, that may be the history regarding the word "queer" in other countries. But in my country, it is basically used in place of the F slur. It is very much used as a slur here and would be the main homophobic + transphobic slur targeted at LGBT+ people.
Tbf it’s not uncommon for people to F-slur themselves either, in English, anyway. People were doing it before social media, and if you hang around in mlm spaces they’re definitely doing it now, too, and not in a sexual way, in a matter-of-fact way.
I'm so lucky i never watched that SU video of lily's i got reccomended when i was younger. I was so much of a rabid Steven universe fan that i never would've touched some one who hated it with a 50ft pole and i'm kinda thankful for it now
While there’s some truth to her video in a very a broken clock can right twice day way it’s her sheer vitriol is what makes it feel so off. Critique and criticism should always be about how the creator and/or current and/or future creation should work and better their work in the future, unbias and all. Using yourself to say your better than said work is not something you should use in critique. Atleast my two cents
Same!! Unfortunately as a young brony I got into her earlier stuff and read Stockholm out of pure curiosity, took me years later when I was about 16 to realise how utterly fucked up it all was. The fact she still has an active fanbase v much concerns me
the most relatable thing I have read in a while. I just couldn't watch two hours of railing on my (ex)favorite show.
The TH-cam age verification system is very broken. I'm a minor, yet by only putting my debit card info in, I have access to everything 18+. (havent watched the whole video yet so dont know if this is brought up but hey, its here now)
It doesn't come up since it's largely besides the point to her audience which is mostly from the US and (possibly) Canada since they don't have said restrictions in place to begin with, though thanks for informing me! It's good to be aware of this stuff.
Just to add to this! A lot of minors end up getting their own debit card at around the age of sixteen. That was the age I obtained one and I reside within the EU.
its kind of hilarious that Lily compares you to Vaush because thats exactly who she immediately reminded me of lol when you played clips of her. Condescending, self absorbed, self righteous, rude, a bully, with a voice that is grating to listen to. the list goes on.
She's the new Onision
lily is just a nasty, hateful person in general. even if none of this were true (and I mean NONE of it), I'd still despise her.
just a little thing. Lilly said calling kh a kids game is reductive, but she has said in her videos multiple times that calling content for kids what it is (content for kids) isn’t reductive, and is what people who want to creep on kids insist on saying so they can be in kids’ spaces. Just food for thought
I really admire how you took the horrible things she said about you and used them to make this well structured argument that will educate people on serious issues. You're amazing.
I mean lily orchard did write those fucked up mlp fanfics sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not that surprised
Discovered Lili earlier this week. This video popped up today because of the algorithm most likely. I was going to brush it off as youtuber drama, but I'm glad I clicked. Never slammed the unsub so hard and fast in my life.
*Apologies if any of this information is mentioned in the video. I have not yet watched the entire thing, and am only near the timestamp listed. I simply wanted to share a point I believe is relevant.*
32:34 It is funny that Lily uses this as an argument. A a Canadian man myself, I am *also* aware of my laws. Her claim that Canada's age of consent is void of "close in age" restrictions/exemptions is false. Though the third I mention is not an age restriction/exemption specifically, it still relevantly applies so I will consider for convenience of conversation that there are, 'technically,' three. 1. A minor twelve or thirteen years of age can legally consent to sexual activity with a partner less than two years older than them. 2. A minor fourteen or fifteen years of age can legally consent to sexual activity with a partner who is less than five years older than them.
Now, the previous two are technically not relevant, but already contradict her claim that none exist whatsoever and is more my pettiness to bring up. But, while the third isn't specifically a "close in age" restriction, it certainly applies to her argument. Section 153 of the Criminal Code of Canada prohibits sexual activity with a person *under eighteen* if: 1. If they are in "a position of trust or authority" over the minor, 2. If they are in "a relationship of dependency" with said minor, and 3. *If the relationship is considered "exploitative".* This was a law expanded on in Bill C-2 in 2005. The definition of "exploitative" in this case is to be defined by the judge presiding over a case and are circumstantial, but they depend on the age of the minor and the age gap over-all, and the power dynamic/circumstance of development of a relationship. An example of relationships deemed "exploitative" have been relationships developed through a power dynamic of a media figure/influence, or *over the internet.* Mind you, these were made before the age of consent was changed, and still applies between adults and people under eighteen, despite the age of consent.
It may not apply directly to the streams in question, but it would, technically, apply regardless to the countless other sexual interactions she has had over the internet with minors.
This doesn't even count the child pornography.
Little fun fact! While it is not in several regions, in Canada, possession, creation, or distribution of fictional and/or non-visual child pornography is *illegal.*
To quote section 163.1 of the Criminal Code of Canada,
"In this section, child pornography means
(a) a photographic, film, video or other visual representation, *whether or not it was made by electronic or mechanical means,*
(i) that shows a person who is or is depicted as being under the age of eighteen years and is engaged in or is depicted as engaged in explicit sexual activity, or
(ii) the dominant characteristic of which is the depiction, for a sexual purpose, of a sexual organ or the anal region of a person under the age of eighteen years;
(b) any *written material,* visual representation or audio recording that advocates or counsels sexual activity with a person under the age of eighteen years that would be an offence under this Act;
(c) any *written material whose dominant characteristic is the description, for a sexual purpose, of sexual activity with a person under the age of eighteen years that would be an offence under this Act; or*
(d) any audio recording that has as its dominant characteristic the description, presentation or representation, for a sexual purpose, of sexual activity with a person under the age of eighteen years that would be an offence under this Act."
Note that (b) also includes works that advocate towards sexual activity with a minor.
The creation, distribution, and access of child pornography is, obviously, also prohibited under the Criminal Code.
This would, likely, be applicable to "Stockholm" and other works of hers, considering the several graphic and intentionally sexually gratifying descriptions of the intercourse involving the CMC, both with each-other and adults.
Therefore, she is not only contradicting herself, but contradicting the written, set in stone law in her statements.
Will she likely be charged for any of this? No. Does the fact remain that it is illegal regardless? Yes.
Understandably, in some cases, many may decide to argue that just because the law condemns something, it does not mean it is morally wrong. Though, in cases like this, as a transgender, gay, - or should I say to the queen of throwing hissy fits, *queer* - disabled man whose accommodation and mere existence has been pushed against by the law, I stand to argue that some laws are there for a god damn reason. I'm in no way a patriot, quite the opposite, but god is this woman an embarrassment to my country.
i didnt even know the original meaning of karen was something like that! thank you for teaching me something new :D
i guess it only goes to show how much the original meaning has changed :o.. sad, yt ppl take stuff from poc so much.
@EssenceOfThought Normally I don't comment on videos, but the part about what Queer truly means blows me away. As someone who has recently come as a trans man (especially a trans man of color), I never knew I needed such an important and vital piece of information. Unfortunately I wish the circumstances of which I learned this information could have been different. I was never a fan of Lilly, but I guess I watched their videos because I was young and uninformed and I felt like no one had the same views about LGBT rights. It's awful learning that she's like this and I'm glad I'm getting this information from a reliable source.
44:13 @EssenceOfThought baby, you literally have taught me something new today here! I honestly had no idea that queer historically meant that! Been out for 7 years; however, I was raised within a VERY conservative independent fundamental baptist church environment and being afro-latin (African and Latin descent), we ofc don’t have access to quality education, let alone LGBTQ+ education. I always used queer, but only here and there. As I learned more about the LGBTQ+ “community”, ive SEEN and experienced how Gay^TM “men” (meaning white cis men from well-off backgrounds) has colonized everything that black/brown trans, queers, and women both fought for and EARNED (as an LGBTQ+ activist myself, primarily for queers), only to be left out of the celebrations that all these gay men did NOTHING to help with. Gay men steal our spaces, discriminate against our skin tones, gender identities, and bodies, and fucking price us out of them! Truly disgusting. Think ill be using Queer alot more now. There, thats my New Years Resolution 😂🎉
Man I remember being a fan of lily before she came out as Trans and was friends with joshscorcher...then it just got worse and worse with being a bad friend,not taking critisism,being rude and abusive to people and now this....
Been following Lily Orchard's videos for a long time (like back in her MLP days, before the big Steven Universe vid that she made) and I noticed both on her videos and on her tumblr, she always, *always* defaulted to using ableist language such as Stupid/Moron/Idiot etc. I've kindly tried asking her to stop, but she just plain does not care. Even if you had sources on why such words are rooted in ableism, she just genuinely doesn't care at all. I'm now understanding why that is. Because abusive people don't care if they are speaking to others in an abusive way. They are un-apologetically abusive.
that part about joshscorcher is gut-wrenching. i used to watch his old top 10 videos all the time as an adolescent, they were a major source of comfort for me
The Picture of her in the thumbnail is totally traced from an episode of the Harley Quinn show. Idk if that is important but it's just something I noticed
As a trans woman who has a past with grooming and abuse, thank you for taking a stand against her. I really can't express enough my disdain for the trans people who do genuinely fucked up shit and hide behind their queerness acting like any criticism of them is homophobic/transphobic because it's an effective emotionally manipulative way to sway people to their side and make the person speaking out be quiet: behavior I've encountered plenty from real world abusers (almost always conservative and privileged people, though not always as she seems to be keen to mimic them). She really can't be trusted with an audience like she has that believes only what she says, she knows exactly how to be dogmatic and emotionally twist people into defending her (which is especially twisted since she knows that's a real persecution most of her audience and she herself faces, and would be sympathetic and believable).
I'm a hypersexual kinkster (this shit either does that or makes you sex-repulsed and unable to enjoy most of your sexuality) and seeing this behavior and type of content defended so commonly by proshippers and the people taken in by that rhetoric who will die on the hill of defending it has disillusioned me and made me distance myself from online queer and adult communities (despite the closest thing to a job I have being as a NSFW commission artist). You handle content trigger warnings much better than a good half of them anyways (most people don't like thinking about the unspeakably horrible worst thing that will probably ever happen to them (as someone who's also severely disabled and has been in an actual car accident since that gave me PTSD that made it near impossible to get around in the USA and made me bedridden, I'd rather go through that again and than have gone through the sexual trauma I went through)).
hey your mini lesson on the q phrase being empowering really helped me today, i needed to here it. thanks.
I'm not done with this video. In fact, it's late and I'm going to bed, so I'll get back to it.
That being said, I used to be a fan of Lily's. I found it strange that I kept seeing statements she's been "harassed" and/or "stalked," so I started looking for things to see why this happens SO. MANY. TIMES because yeah, this is a pattern at this point.
Color me shocked when *this* is what I find, and yes, I've found those videos about the fanfic, too. Thoroughly disgusted. Thank you for making this and providing proof.
Im so fucking disappointed :(
I was really into her content due to the Steven Universe rant but all this shit coming out about her is heart breaking.
I am so sorry that the furry community pushed you out. As a furry myself, I wish I could say that I couldn't believe it. But there is no community that is able to escape toxicity.
I don’t know if this has been pointed out, but I despise her use of the word “malding” against you- with it being a combination of the words “mad” and “balding” it doesn’t sit well with me to use this term on trans people at all considering how real of a struggle balding is for many walks of trans people. This may be nitpicky but it really bothered me