I am 65 and have been hearing these terms from the guys since I was 10 years old (rock crusher, ratios, Ford 9", etc) but no one could explain it, leaving me with a passive knowledge at best; I only knew it was good to have. I finally understand and you explained it all in 30 min! Thank You.
My buddy worked in an engine shop around 1980, the seasoned owner used to always say you young guys always start at the wrong end of the vehicle which is good for my business
I went from 2.73 to 4.11 with my Camaro! I was a dumb kid when I started my project and thought I'd be upgrading my tranny to a t-56 viper spec. Cash ran out so I left in the super t-10. (thought I had the regular t-10 at the time) With the gear swap, I gained a whole gear off the line, but lost a gear on top! Literally. Going in second gear now with the 4.11 is literally the same as first gear with the 2.73!
@@leonardfoster6252 Yup. I'd be right around 5300 rpm or so with 4.11. 2.73 would be only at 3400 rpm or so, in 4th gear and 28.75" tall tires. 4.11 gears is also much nicer on my clutch!
Excellent information. Some of the information I had read and heard about over the years. This really cleared up some of my misunderstandings. I am sure I will watch this several times. I took a picture of the spreadsheet so I can calculate this for my 1955 Chevy. I have a 700R4 transmission and a Ford 9" Diffential with 3:73 gears. I am installing a new 427 small block that makes 560 hp and 580 lbs. of torque. I will use this information in the video to run the same computation. Thank you.
When I bought my 65 vette(l78/396) back in the early 90's, it still had it's oem trans(m-21), and it's oem rear gears(3.08). ARGH!! What a combination that was. You had to literally drag it out of a stop, forget about starting on an incline. But boy was it nice on the highway. It was actually hard to hit the redline with those gears. That's probably why it still had it's original motor. Of course I changed out the rears to 3.55's. Also tried different tranny's in it. M20, M21, Tremec 5 speed. I often wondered who, and why, ordered it with that original combination.
"Rock crusher" is also an industrial service factor classification of gear boxes, factoring in high shock and torque loads. A very appropriate term for the M 22
Had a m-22 behind my 327-55 Chevy, 2 x 4 barrels, Duntov cam with 11.25 compression, Mallory double life 4 lobe with 4.10 Pontiac rear. That trans was a screamer too, loved that sound. Engine was at 7000 with those big meats I had on the back coming off the line, would tote the front wheels for about three car lengths. Fantastic engine and transmission. Made that shoe box run.
They weren't that great,When Buick had a pro stock program with the stage 2 engine,they used the Mopar 4 speeds because the M-22 couldn't handle the Buick Torque and high rpm launches
Very good vid as always, I do have to mention the reason for the popularity of the Ford 9 inch is so misunderstood. Ford designed the 9 inch to be quiet and strong, how did they do that, by using a Hypoid gear or lowering the pinion gear lower on the ring gear, instead of on a Bevel gear which is on the the C/L. What this did was to allow for more gear tooth contact (stronger) and quieter running gear set. But here is where the big misunderstanding really comes in. With the advent of the modern Pro stock car, the wanted to lower the drive train, so the Ford 9 inch was 2.250 lower off the C/L, so now the drive train can sit lower in the car. The gears are stronger yes but they do take more power to rotate. One of the most over looked rear ends for street cars is the 8 3/4 Chrysler, strong and light and very inexpensive to build for at least 75% of your builds. In the 70s we ran a H/G Nova with a Dana 60 rear end, it had a 7.17 gear which only had 3 teeth on the pinion gear. 10 runs and you needed to change gears.
Funny, you say that because this M2 two came out of a 71 or 72 big block Chevelle, the guy wrecked the car and I mean wrecked the engine wasn’t any good he got hit so hard in the front did it bent the crankshaft. I had it in my 442 for about a month just to make sure it worked OK, and nothing was bent, my M20 was leaking, so I wanted to reseal the whole thing. Then I put it back in and took the M22 out and put it in my garage on the second floor where there’s no traffic. It’s funny I remember putting it up there. It still had oil in it because I put a old piece of driveshaft in where the tail shift comes out so it wouldn’t leak and I’ve never seen any stains in the ceiling so I guess it’s still full. Because of its age I guess I should put bearings in it if I’m gonna sell it. Thanks again for the video was really cool.
in the mid 70's i put a 12 bolt in a 66 GTO for the simple reason it was shorter from one end to the other than a 10 bolt and it was nice that it had 3.73 posi too . being shorter allowed me to put fatter tires on and the wheel wells didnt chew them up
Alan, thanks for doing what you do, I like all your content. I wish I had kept my Z-28, it was the quickest car in town back in 1973... It was a '70 model. They put the M22 in those but was also the last year for the 12 bolt rear differential. I think first gear was absolutely useless in my Zed sled. You did a good job explaining why that 2.20 first gear was used in those car's. I think my account thumb nail has a picture of the old Camaro. One more thing, I keep having to subscribe to your channel, is this a problem you have come across.
Thanks Cliff. Beautiful Z, 1970 was actually the fastest, last year for high compression. Thanks for the info about having to keep subscribing, I have not heard of that before. I will try to look into it? AG
I watching two brothers race, the guy had a 60s firebird and the brother has a newer firebird. The newer firebird had taller gears and couldn't beat the older firebird in the quarter mile. This was on pinks. The brother with the newer firebird asked if he could move his car back from the starting line and the brother agreed. They raced and the old firebird ran the same numbers but the newer firebird beat him over the finish line even though he was farther back. Ever since then I'm convinced that a higher gear ratio should be faster as long as you have the power.
Great video! I wish I'd had access to your knowledge when I was building a power train combo on my first car. As a kid, all I had was Hot Rodding magazines and I made all the wrong decisions! 😆 Would be great if you could do a follow up video about gear vendors (and is it worth the big price tag).
Great video, Uncle Al! Some of the younger guys in my shop could really benefit from this. I think I’m gonna start a “Learn With My Uncle Allan” hour at least once a week and gather them all around my iMac to watch your channel! 😉
11:00 I get that helical gears are smoother and quieter but you also said stronger. I could see with multiple teeth engaged simultaneously that might happen but racing transmissions have noisy straight cut gears. I've always been told that's for strength.
Another good question Genifer. Helix angle generates thrust. The M21 rock crusher for example has a lower helix angle to reduce thrust. Racing transmission use a less diametrical pitch (DP) . This means there are less teeth per inch of pitch diameter. The pitch diameter is the circular centerline of the tooth contact pattern. Since there are less teeth, those teeth are larger, and so they are stronger. They are also noisier than more smaller teeth in the same application. AG
I thought it was great that you talked about cruise rpm and with an automatic so many people just suggest a 3500 stall no matter what the cam or car specs. I was taught never to put a stall converter taller than cruise rpm due to the excessive heat it will create. This is why a project has to be looled at from many aspects before it is started IMHO. Maybe something has changed, I am unaware of or maybe that could be a future video for you. Good stuff 👍
Good info on grears. Great recommendations to stay organized. I learned a few things about gears, but I got great advice on how to stay focused and organized. And that I can use on every project. Thanks
What gear ratio would you choose if where me? 78 Trans Am 383 stroker, 10:1, about 500hp, 6.700 redline rpm M21 transmission 26" tire Just street fun, some trackdays, fun drag racing with friends, and not driving around the country because I have a trailer Actually has 3.08 and can't decide between 3.42 or more gear
Your M21 transmission has a 2.20 first gear. I would suggest 3.73 or higher numerically. This will give you 8.2 torque multiplication in first gear. AG
You were talking about rock crushers, I have one up on the second floor in my garage. I think I have owned it since the early 70s and never used it. My 442 has an M20 in it and I have no desire to change it so I guess I’m gonna bring the M22 downstairs put it on my bench take it apart. I’ll put all new bearings and blocker rings in it.
Thanks Tucker, I use an M20 also because it has a 2.52 first gear compared to 2.20 for the rock crusher. That said, i bet it is pretty valuable. Thanks for sharing. AG
M22's I think would be quite rare. I don't think they were introduced until 1970 in passenger cars. Many were used in Trans AM road racing. 6 speeds are great, but for a 60's or 70's muscle car I would still prefer the original Muncie's. AG
Well I really liked your tip at the end staying organized is so very important and you philosophy on a clean workbench is the same one I use it works I sweep the floor of my shop every day and put things away so that the next day is a fresh start if applicable, I guess I'm in trouble with my gear ratio on my 1966 Chevelle 4 speed Saginaw with 308 gears probably get great fuel mileage with the stock 350 though I know I need to change the ring and pinion but currently just trying to get the car built and driving do you think 355 gears or 377 ? She's my baby so maybe a little burnout once in a while but more for cruising and going to the beach. I live in Las Vegas lol. Thanks guys👍👍
Hey Randy, i like 3.55:1. That is what I have in my Camaro and unless you have an overdrive transmission that is what I would suggest. According to my Moroso Slide rule, 3000 RPM with a 28" tire is 71MPH. With a 3.73 it is 64MPH. Also, if you have an M20 transmission you won't find a speedo drive gear for 3.73. As far as I know, all cars supplied with M20, had 3.55 and down. All cars supplied with M21 or M22 had 3.73 and up numerically. Hope this helps. AG
Here's a fun fact about first gear multiplication; The 2 older overdrive transmissions from the General need to have a minimum of 9.5:1 first gear multiplication ratio for them to be able to shift into overdrive @ 45 mph. This brings both the 700R4 and 200R4 very close to what the th350 first gear multiplication ratio would be with a 3.73:1 rear gear matched to it. The 700 would only need a 3.08:1 rear gear to achieve close to the 9.5:1 first gear multiplication ratio. The 200 would need a 3.42:1 to get close to the 9.5:1 first gear multiplication ratio.😎👍
@@goldsgarage8236 It is 2.74:1. 3.42 x 2.74 = 9.3708 .1292:1 away from 9.5:1 Is why the General usually teamed up a 200R4 with a 3.42:1 rear gear ratio. 😎👍
Thanks David. Unfortunately we didn't take many pictures then. We only had a Kodak instamatic camera. Taking and processing pictures was not a simple as we do on our phone now. However i do have one picture of me coming off the line at the dragstrip in my Z28 which i will show in the next video. AG
My 91 Chevy Short Bed has a positive Trac Rearend with a 3.73 Gear Ratio. Now im ready for a decently built 350 for Street. Maybe 400 Horses. Maybe with a Power Shot of Nitrous. 😅
Why leave out the Mopar 8 3/4 rear end on par with the Ford 9 ...even thou the 9 has three bearings supporting the pinion... And the 8 3/4 was used in early funny cars running the 727.
good point Moparnut. No offense intended. I do know the Mopar gear was very good as well. Is this also called Dana? The Ford 9" is just more common. AG
Another great video Al & Mike! Great info as my 84 C10 currently has a 700R4 with 2.73 and a 20x11 rear tire at 28.4” tall….curious what my dyno numbers will be and then I can figure out truck curb weight and calculate overall torque calculation. Keep the videos coming!!👏🏻👏🏻
Had the same 700 r-4 truck several years but with a 2.56 rear gear. Installed a 3.73 rearend out of a suburban. Picked up both performance AND mileage.
for driving lower output engines at track ,(NHRA Stock class racers use) more 1st and following gears to get to engines rpm range sooner. I can not see much different if a 3 speed automatic is 1:1 in 3rd gear. and drive higher munerical 1st and second
Thanks for the comment TheHoule. I have been to Sherwood Park. I did some consulting for IPSCO steel there. I might be called EVRAZ or something else now. Merry Christmas. AG
AG, I put a 3.55 gear in my 73 Corvette and took out the 3.08 or 3.36? The 3.55 is an all around gear, but var would of ran much faster if I had put a 3.73 in it. Turbo 400 trans with a B&M 3,000 stall converter...
Good question. The driveshaft must be offset, or have pinion angle, (same thing) so that the needles in the universal joints rotate. Typically pinion angles are closer to 4 degrees, depending on the application. Hope this is what you were looking for. AG
Enjoyed your video, my set up is a 454ci with a NP440/MY6 and 10 bolt posi 3.8:1 gear. The final drive in first is 9.52:1 and 2.25 in forth which is .73:1 all in a 78 nova. I don't think a street car can do much better other than go up to 3.42:1 gear for a better OD ratio. I have a 2.41:1 gear set if I want to go for a land speed record.
The 2.20 ratio is for cars with a lower gear rearend... I always like the wide ratio with a 2.54 ratio first gear... Later 10 bolts are strong as a 12 bolt rearend. Early 10 bolts break fairly easy, especially if they are a single track...
I did not know it's likely you will use the same shim for a different gear set. Maybe not physically the same shim but the dimensions might be very similar. Does this hold true for a 9 inch?
Thanks for the question Jenifer. No Ford 9" are set up differently in a separate housing, sometimes called a Pumpkin. They can then be installed (front loaded) already set up and adjusted. GM and other similar differentials with the rear cover must be installed and adjusted (shimmed) in the car. AG
@goldsgarage8236 You were talking about how precisely. The gears were machined and you could use the same shim pinion and bearing and it should sit in the same exact location, Or at least a very close starting point. With this be the same on a Ford 9 inch? I realize it's a separate center section. Even so it's still has a similar design. I'm just asking about a new gear set being machined to similar tolerances of the original gearset And likely be able to use a similar shim.
Man just yesterday I was wondering how rpm is limited in an msd and here it is! fires every other spark hey? Thanks! Next question is, "why exactly do people say that hitting the chip can be hard on the engine? Please explain! I could google, but I enjoy your videos.
Good question Umakeme, lots of interest in this subject. Here is my take on it. If the driver stays on the throttle, fuel and air mixture continues to flow into the cylinder but is not ignited. This can cause hydrolocking and/or excessive pressures. Then when it does fire, the MEP, (Mean effective Pressure) in the cylinder may be excessive. Also the misfire throws the engine off balance every time it misfires. All the other comments, which I will get to, are correct, this is not good for an engine, but in short track circle track racing pretty much everyone does it, especially underpowered cars that need more RPM in the corner. Typically they choose a gear ratio that will get the engine to the max RPM just before the point where they should lift and get on the brakes. I don't like it either, but testing proves that lap times are better when you hit the chip twice every lap. Hope this helps. AG
The worst thing you can do is continually use the revlimeter chip when the ignition box shuts off cylinders it creates vibrations in the engine and wears out the engine prematurely. Read the Rehe and Morrison engine building book. They can tell that every time they tear down an engine, the same engine used for same type of racing engine that uses the revlimeter all the time that engine is completely worn out. Then engine that dose not bump against the revlimeter is always still in good shape
I totally agree @jims. The problem is that drivers and racers care more about lap times and winning than about the engine. This is especially true with underpowered cars that need the RPM's coming out of the corner. Testing has proven that lap times are best when they hit the chip, so that is what they do. AG
I have a 1988 chevy 4x4 with 700r4 trans and 200 hp 350 engine with 3.42 gears if I change to 4.11 I have more bottom end torque plus towing power Correct
Also, the higher you go numerically with the rear end gear ratio, the less likely you will blow up your tranny, but, the more pressure you put on the actual axle shafts. (depending on how much power you make and how heavy the car is)
I broke alot of muncie trans with a 2.73 rearend... 9" Ford rearend is the best, thats what I run in my fast car with a bigblock! 35 spline axles 10 bolt pinion support Ultra case Strange and axles... 4.86 gear for a 8 sec. car...
Right... 3.73 gear usually on rpm at 60 mph it is at 3,000... Depends on tire height. 4.88 is not good for street unless you have a lot of HP and torque, a lot of rpm involved. I know, I have a 8 sec. car in the 1/4 mile... 1/8th runs 5.62 at 123 mph... 1/4 runs 8.82 at 152.52 mph. 66 Chevelle tube chassis car and is light. 2,370 lbs. with driver. Car will run around 5.40's in the 1/8 th. 468 cu.in. on race gas and a single carb, SV1 made by Pro Systems, they have the world's fastest carb. Billet carb, one butter fly, round, two spray bars to discharge fuel into engine. It's better than the best 4500 dominator, makes 10 more HP over a dominator...
I don’t know why, but did Dana 60 I know it is tough as the Ford 9 inch and it’s like half the price can’t understand why nobody uses that. Maybe it’s a little bit heavier I don’t know but it sure is as strong and it sure is cheap.
Rock-crusher is definitly a word over used and randomly thrown around, I`m 71yrs old and was the drive line Mr. Goodwrench in the 70`s In 12 yrs at the chevy dealership I only saw 2 of them, only needed clutches and both behind aluminum headed big blocks.........The whine they made was asume!
Many muscle cars had big block engines with 4 spd transmissions. The same car with a 6 cylinder water heater only came with three on the tree. My Dad always said the 6 cylinder cars needed the 4 spd trans as they did not have the torque the big engines did. I know a guy that had a 68 Mustang with 390 and 4 gear. When out on a date he could drive around in 3rd gear. Proved what Dad said.
My sister had a '64 Dart GT convertible with a slant 6 and a four speed. It was a fun little thing. That transmission had a 3.09 first gear unlike the typical 833 that had a 2.69.
@@craigbenz4835Yes, there are some. The US market may have gotten the slant with 4 spd longer than Canada. After about 1962 the 4 spd was not optioned for 6 cylinder Mopar cars. Trucks could get the 4 spd truck trans. When the gas crisis hit, all the OEM's added OD to 3 spd transmissions for economy. Then there was the numb nutz that shifted to "4th" at 45 MPH because that is what they had always done. Hammered the trans input bearing out from the low RPM.
You won't ever find a gear with an exact ratio. Gear manufacturers always use a "hunting tooth" so that the same teeth on the pinion don't always contact the same teeth on the gear. Instead of say a 3.0 which might have 10 teeth on the pinion and 30 on the gear, they would use a 10:31 ratio for 3.1. AG
@goldsgarage8236 I looked into this & found the teeth count to be 39-13 to make the 3.00 gear. So I think what u was meaning is not the ratio but the teeth count. However I found that the 3.50 gear is 35-10. 10 being a even number. But the 35 teeth on the ring gear is odd, is this what u meant?
Good research on your part Jesse. The 39-13 3.0:1 is an exception. So when the pinion rotates each tooth on the pinion will contact the same 3 teeth on the gear every revolution. This is not desirable for wear or noise. The number of teeth on the pinion should not divide into the number of teeth on the gear. By adding one extra "hunting tooth" the contact and therefore wear would be more evenly distributed. Hope this helps, let me know. AG
Never ever ever set up a race engine to run off of the chip and only use the chip to protect the drive train. The cylinder chamber pressure becomes very inefficient and dangerous to the piston when the spark plug only fires intermittently on the chip. Piston damage is a sure thing.
Thanks sqr. I agree with you, but drivers care more about lap times and winning races. Especially if they are underpowered and need the torque coming out of the corner. Testing has shown that lap times are better when they hit the chip, so they do it anyway. AG
2004r or 4L80. I blew up so many 700r4 it wasn;t funny.. My built 2004r has lived quite a few years now behind 1300 hp engine. Going 4L80 when I up it to 1600. I wouldn;t put a 700 in anything with more than 400 hp. The gear splits suck too.
@@robr5786 weaker, if you have a gear that's 1" wide and gears are straight cut, gear is 1" wide. If gears diagonally cut then gears are about 1.25" wide and case needs to be stronger because of the side load that's created and then there's the heat involved 🧐
A helical gear in a transmission is not stronger than a straight cut gear. Wrong about that. Also, the Dana 60 is the ultimate differential for a drag car. Not a 9 inch Ford. Also the pinion on a 9 inch is lower thus causing more parasitic power loss than other diffs.
Steve Mossis has a really good video about why you NEVER want to hit the rev limiter. It is so hard on engines that he will replace the rods asap if one of his engines hits the limiter hard.
Thanks for the info Bdd. Circle tracks and sanctioning organizations impose RPM limits to equalize the competition. They enforce them using rev limiters. They test the chips and rev limiters routinely as part of Teck inspection. I don't like it either but racers know that they will get the best lap times when they hit the chip so that is what they do. This is especially true with underpowered cars that need all the torque they can get out of the corner. Actually our experience is that we get 3-4 years (About 10,000 laps on 1/2 mile track) on our engine without touching it. We do a leak down and compression test, change the valve springs, and dyno it every year. It often makes more power than the year before. If the power falls off, we freshen it. I think drag racers also use rev limiters routinely on the launch.
Not really a solid comparison on Dave and Gary's cars. It could only be if the two engines were making the same torque at the same RPM- linear. That 427 looks like it has a cam sacrificing some low end grunt where the 2.52 ratio wants to live. I always tell people, I don't care about peak numbers, I care about where the values are throughout the whole range on the chart.
Okay so after you multiply the first gear ratio times your torque I get that part but after that none of your math makes any sense. It says torque at rear wheels foot pounds times weight and then you got car weight next to that you're not explaining that properly. I like your channel I wish you would explain that
Thanks for the question Richard. Torque at the rear axle in first gear is torque at the flywheel x overall gear ratio. (transmission first gear ratio x rear end gear ratio.) So if I have 400ft.lb at the flywheel and a 2.52 first gear and 3.55 rear end it would be 400x2.52x3.55= 3578ft.lb. (of course there is an efficiency loss due to friction and heat along the way) Next is the ratio of the weight of the car to torque. Acceleration =Force/mass. If you look at the chart we posted, it might help you to understand. Hope this helps. AG
"If you don't want to re-use the cast shims you can use other shims equal to the thickness." You can tell this guy genenerally only shims garage queens and weekend warriors. Almost always on a driver with mileage the cast iron shims are worn to the point where it requires little effort to remove/reinsert them. What do you expect when hearing the auto gospel from a guy who continuously has hands as clean and soft as a baby's azz, a clean uniform with a square collar, and employees... Just for the record- I have over 200k on my gears from the late 90s and for sure would expect gears to hold up on a low mileage gear swap. I have heart though, never have I been in a position to have to "buy my car back."
Ur explanation is so damn confusing. There has to be a way easier way to understand. Maybe u can touch back on this one day and make it less confusing 😂😂😂
I. Drove 67 -- 68 - 69 z-28s junk my 69 nova 396-375 was bad - hard on squirrel nuts then moroso nu ts , be careful what u say I was there - I learned in 12th grade without u- tube , in 1970 the big mtrs put me 3 links even though I had .540 - 560. Chev service cam 😅
I am 65 and have been hearing these terms from the guys since I was 10 years old (rock crusher, ratios, Ford 9", etc) but no one could explain it, leaving me with a passive knowledge at best; I only knew it was good to have. I finally understand and you explained it all in 30 min! Thank You.
Thanks for the comment Ken, we can never stop learning. AG
I am 73, had my Sunbeam Tiger for 48 years and the 3:54 rear end made all the difference with a 375hp 289 build.
Great advice in your closing AG..
Thank you for another great video!👍
My buddy worked in an engine shop around 1980, the seasoned owner used to always say you young guys always start at the wrong end of the vehicle which is good for my business
Changing from a 2.73 to a 3.55 is like day and night on the power of the car!
I went from 2.73 to 4.11 with my Camaro! I was a dumb kid when I started my project and thought I'd be upgrading my tranny to a t-56 viper spec. Cash ran out so I left in the super t-10. (thought I had the regular t-10 at the time)
With the gear swap, I gained a whole gear off the line, but lost a gear on top! Literally.
Going in second gear now with the 4.11 is literally the same as first gear with the 2.73!
@@jakefriesenjake you are right, there
is alot more rpm with the 4.11 and it will scream at 110 mph!
@@leonardfoster6252 Yup. I'd be right around 5300 rpm or so with 4.11.
2.73 would be only at 3400 rpm or so, in 4th gear and 28.75" tall tires.
4.11 gears is also much nicer on my clutch!
@@62guitarguy right on!
@@62guitarguy yup!
Back in the day had a 66 Beaumont with a powerslide & a 12 bolt 4.56's. 55 MPH on the highway with G60-15's!
Thanks alleyoop. 4.56 is fun on the street, might be a little noisy on the highway. AG
In Low or drive
Yea about 3500 rpm at 50, not good on the highway. Usually no air and a hot box.
With 4.88 mine felt like the rpm matched the mph.. 5500 seemed like only 55mph 😆
A little wordy, but likely the best explanation of things I thought I knew/ understood. Thank you Sir.
Thanks for watching and commenting Steven. AG
Excellent information. Some of the information I had read and heard about over the years. This really cleared up some of my misunderstandings. I am sure I will watch this several times. I took a picture of the spreadsheet so I can calculate this for my 1955 Chevy. I have a 700R4 transmission and a Ford 9" Diffential with 3:73 gears. I am installing a new 427 small block that makes 560 hp and 580 lbs. of torque. I will use this information in the video to run the same computation. Thank you.
Thanks Neil, the 55 will always be a favorite and you will have a killer hot rod with that combination. AG
When I bought my 65 vette(l78/396) back in the early 90's, it still had it's oem trans(m-21), and it's oem rear gears(3.08). ARGH!! What a combination that was. You had to literally drag it out of a stop, forget about starting on an incline. But boy was it nice on the highway. It was actually hard to hit the redline with those gears. That's probably why it still had it's original motor. Of course I changed out the rears to 3.55's. Also tried different tranny's in it. M20, M21, Tremec 5 speed. I often wondered who, and why, ordered it with that original combination.
Thanks for the info Raa. It mist have been a special order. My understanding is that with 3.55 and down, you got M20, 3.73 and up you got M21. AG
Clutch eater.
"Rock crusher" is also an industrial service factor classification of gear boxes, factoring in high shock and torque loads. A very appropriate term for the M 22
Thanks Jay. AG
Had a m-22 behind my 327-55 Chevy, 2 x 4 barrels, Duntov cam with 11.25 compression, Mallory double life 4 lobe with 4.10 Pontiac rear. That trans was a screamer too, loved that sound. Engine was at 7000 with those big meats I had on the back coming off the line, would tote the front wheels for about three car lengths. Fantastic engine and transmission. Made that shoe box run.
They weren't that great,When Buick had a pro stock program with the stage 2 engine,they used the Mopar 4 speeds because the M-22 couldn't handle the Buick Torque and high rpm launches
Thanks Did not know that@@robr5786
Getting quench height right would be a great video! Keep em coming.. great video!
Thanks for the suggestion Ponga. I will do that. AG
thanks Alan, I knew most of this, but you taught me a few things extra that is good to know and remember
Thanks for watching and commenting. AG
Very good vid as always, I do have to mention the reason for the popularity of the Ford 9 inch is so misunderstood. Ford designed the 9 inch to be quiet and strong, how did they do that, by using a Hypoid gear or lowering the pinion gear lower on the ring gear, instead of on a Bevel gear which is on the the C/L. What this did was to allow for more gear tooth contact (stronger) and quieter running gear set.
But here is where the big misunderstanding really comes in. With the advent of the modern Pro stock car, the wanted to lower the drive train, so the Ford 9 inch was 2.250 lower off the C/L, so now the drive train can sit lower in the car. The gears are stronger yes but they do take more power to rotate.
One of the most over looked rear ends for street cars is the 8 3/4 Chrysler, strong and light and very inexpensive to build for at least 75% of your builds. In the 70s we ran a H/G Nova with a Dana 60 rear end, it had a 7.17 gear which only had 3 teeth on the pinion gear. 10 runs and you needed to change gears.
Great information @racer. Thanks for the input. AG
I really like your content. I learn something from every episode
Thanks Mike. More to come so please keep watching. This weekend we will be making a video of Bill Little's 565 big block on the Dyno. AG
Funny, you say that because this M2 two came out of a 71 or 72 big block Chevelle, the guy wrecked the car and I mean wrecked the engine wasn’t any good he got hit so hard in the front did it bent the crankshaft. I had it in my 442 for about a month just to make sure it worked OK, and nothing was bent, my M20 was leaking, so I wanted to reseal the whole thing. Then I put it back in and took the M22 out and put it in my garage on the second floor where there’s no traffic. It’s funny I remember putting it up there. It still had oil in it because I put a old piece of driveshaft in where the tail shift comes out so it wouldn’t leak and I’ve never seen any stains in the ceiling so I guess it’s still full. Because of its age I guess I should put bearings in it if I’m gonna sell it. Thanks again for the video was really cool.
Tucker, thanks for the rest of the story. If there is oil in it the bearings should be fine. AG
in the mid 70's i put a 12 bolt in a 66 GTO for the simple reason it was shorter from one end to the other than a 10 bolt and it was nice that it had 3.73 posi too . being shorter allowed me to put fatter tires on and the wheel wells didnt chew them up
Thanks for sharing your experience TnGuy. Ag
Alan, thanks for doing what you do, I like all your content. I wish I had kept my Z-28, it was the quickest car in town back in 1973... It was a '70 model. They put the M22 in those but was also the last year for the 12 bolt rear differential. I think first gear was absolutely useless in my Zed sled. You did a good job explaining why that 2.20 first gear was used in those car's. I think my account thumb nail has a picture of the old Camaro. One more thing, I keep having to subscribe to your channel, is this a problem you have come across.
Thanks Cliff. Beautiful Z, 1970 was actually the fastest, last year for high compression. Thanks for the info about having to keep subscribing, I have not heard of that before. I will try to look into it? AG
I watching two brothers race, the guy had a 60s firebird and the brother has a newer firebird. The newer firebird had taller gears and couldn't beat the older firebird in the quarter mile. This was on pinks.
The brother with the newer firebird asked if he could move his car back from the starting line and the brother agreed. They raced and the old firebird ran the same numbers but the newer firebird beat him over the finish line even though he was farther back. Ever since then I'm convinced that a higher gear ratio should be faster as long as you have the power.
Cool, thanks for the info 488. I used to watch Pinks, haven't seen it for a while. AG
just gotta say I love the channel and the wealth of info you are giving away for free is invaluable.
Nice compliment, thanks Juri. More to come. AG
Loved my m20 matched up with a 3.36 gear.
28” tires.
Worked well with a high rpm, hot little 283 small block.
Fun car.
Good combination @b.s. So I said a 3.55 would be 3000 RPM at 60 MPH, a 3.36 would be 2839RPM. A 283 has a 3" stroke so you can rev them more. AG
Great video! I wish I'd had access to your knowledge when I was building a power train combo on my first car. As a kid, all I had was Hot Rodding magazines and I made all the wrong decisions! 😆 Would be great if you could do a follow up video about gear vendors (and is it worth the big price tag).
Gearvendors are for drag racers. So they can drive on the streets at a lower rpm. Seem to cause as many issues as the solve.
Thanks for the comment J.R. AG
Great video, Uncle Al! Some of the younger guys in my shop could really benefit from this. I think I’m gonna start a “Learn With My Uncle Allan” hour at least once a week and gather them all around my iMac to watch your channel! 😉
Thanks Ron. I am hoping to get down to your shop sometime next spring. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 That’s great news! Hopefully, we’ll be in our NEW headquarters by then… 😉 I’m currently designing the new facilities!
11:00 I get that helical gears are smoother and quieter but you also said stronger.
I could see with multiple teeth engaged simultaneously that might happen but racing transmissions have noisy straight cut gears.
I've always been told that's for strength.
Another good question Genifer. Helix angle generates thrust. The M21 rock crusher for example has a lower helix angle to reduce thrust. Racing transmission use a less diametrical pitch (DP) . This means there are less teeth per inch of pitch diameter. The pitch diameter is the circular centerline of the tooth contact pattern. Since there are less teeth, those teeth are larger, and so they are stronger. They are also noisier than more smaller teeth in the same application. AG
Genifer, i meant M22 not M21.
I thought it was great that you talked about cruise rpm and with an automatic so many people just suggest a 3500 stall no matter what the cam or car specs. I was taught never to put a stall converter taller than cruise rpm due to the excessive heat it will create. This is why a project has to be looled at from many aspects before it is started IMHO. Maybe something has changed, I am unaware of or maybe that could be a future video for you. Good stuff 👍
Thanks Kris. I didn't get into converters in this video, but you are giving me some ideas for the future. AG
Good info on grears. Great recommendations to stay organized. I learned a few things about gears, but I got great advice on how to stay focused and organized. And that I can use on every project. Thanks
Thanks David, glad it was helpful. AG
What gear ratio would you choose if where me?
78 Trans Am
383 stroker, 10:1, about 500hp, 6.700 redline rpm
M21 transmission
26" tire
Just street fun, some trackdays, fun drag racing with friends, and not driving around the country because I have a trailer
Actually has 3.08 and can't decide between 3.42 or more gear
Your M21 transmission has a 2.20 first gear. I would suggest 3.73 or higher numerically. This will give you 8.2 torque multiplication in first gear. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 that's what I was thinking. Thanks!
You were talking about rock crushers, I have one up on the second floor in my garage. I think I have owned it since the early 70s and never used it. My 442 has an M20 in it and I have no desire to change it so I guess I’m gonna bring the M22 downstairs put it on my bench take it apart. I’ll put all new bearings and blocker rings in it.
Thanks Tucker, I use an M20 also because it has a 2.52 first gear compared to 2.20 for the rock crusher.
That said, i bet it is pretty valuable. Thanks for sharing. AG
Why are the M22 bringing so much money. I thought everyone wanted all these std trans with 6 speeds and overdrive
M22's I think would be quite rare. I don't think they were introduced until 1970 in passenger cars. Many were used in Trans AM road racing. 6 speeds are great, but for a 60's or 70's muscle car I would still prefer the original Muncie's. AG
Actually, the right rear wheel will unload and spin with an open differential... unless you are launching in reverse.
Thanks @elebeu. You are correct about that. I got it backwards. Thanks for pointing this out. AG
Going to have to go and try the reverse launch now!
Well I really liked your tip at the end staying organized is so very important and you philosophy on a clean workbench is the same one I use it works I sweep the floor of my shop every day and put things away so that the next day is a fresh start if applicable, I guess I'm in trouble with my gear ratio on my 1966 Chevelle 4 speed Saginaw with 308 gears probably get great fuel mileage with the stock 350 though I know I need to change the ring and pinion but currently just trying to get the car built and driving do you think 355 gears or 377 ? She's my baby so maybe a little burnout once in a while but more for cruising and going to the beach. I live in Las Vegas lol. Thanks guys👍👍
Hey Randy, i like 3.55:1. That is what I have in my Camaro and unless you have an overdrive transmission that is what I would suggest. According to my Moroso Slide rule, 3000 RPM with a 28" tire is 71MPH.
With a 3.73 it is 64MPH. Also, if you have an M20 transmission you won't find a speedo drive gear for 3.73.
As far as I know, all cars supplied with M20, had 3.55 and down. All cars supplied with M21 or M22 had 3.73 and up numerically. Hope this helps. AG
Correction, with a 3.73:1 it would be 67MPH. AG
Here's a fun fact about first gear multiplication;
The 2 older overdrive transmissions from the General need to have a minimum of 9.5:1 first gear multiplication ratio for them to be able to shift into overdrive @ 45 mph. This brings both the 700R4 and 200R4 very close to what the th350 first gear multiplication ratio would be with a 3.73:1 rear gear matched to it.
The 700 would only need a 3.08:1 rear gear to achieve close to the 9.5:1 first gear multiplication ratio. The 200 would need a 3.42:1 to get close to the 9.5:1 first gear multiplication ratio.😎👍
Thanks for your input as always Itseither. I checked your math on the 700, What is first the gear ratio on the 200? AG
@@goldsgarage8236
It is 2.74:1.
3.42 x 2.74 = 9.3708
.1292:1 away from 9.5:1
Is why the General usually teamed up a 200R4 with a 3.42:1 rear gear ratio. 😎👍
Great info, keep it coming!
Thanks for the encouragement Neil. AG
Pure gold! Great video and great explanation.
Thanks so much for the nice compliment Shanman. AG
No pressure but I think it would be cool see pictures of z28 back in day , thanks for videos.
Thanks David. Unfortunately we didn't take many pictures then. We only had a Kodak instamatic camera. Taking and processing pictures was not a simple as we do on our phone now.
However i do have one picture of me coming off the line at the dragstrip in my Z28 which i will show in the next video. AG
My 91 Chevy Short Bed has a positive Trac Rearend with a 3.73 Gear Ratio. Now im ready for a decently built 350 for Street. Maybe 400 Horses. Maybe with a Power Shot of Nitrous. 😅
Why leave out the Mopar 8 3/4 rear end on par with the Ford 9 ...even thou the 9 has three bearings supporting the pinion... And the 8 3/4 was used in early funny cars running the 727.
good point Moparnut. No offense intended. I do know the Mopar gear was very good as well. Is this also called Dana? The Ford 9" is just more common. AG
Another great video Al & Mike!
Great info as my 84 C10 currently has a 700R4 with 2.73 and a 20x11 rear tire at 28.4” tall….curious what my dyno numbers will be and then I can figure out truck curb weight and calculate overall torque calculation.
Keep the videos coming!!👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks Roland. you have the right transmission to start with, your engine will like more gear. AG
Had the same 700 r-4 truck several years but with a 2.56 rear gear. Installed a 3.73 rearend out of a suburban. Picked up both performance AND mileage.
for driving lower output engines at track ,(NHRA Stock class racers use) more 1st and following gears to get to engines rpm range sooner. I can not see much different if a 3 speed automatic is 1:1 in 3rd gear. and drive higher munerical 1st and second
Thanks for sharing your experience. AG
My 1984 cutlass has a cammed rebuilt 5.3 with 4L60e with 3:73 posi from a grand national it’s one fun fast car
Thanks Chad, I am sure it was. AG
Love your content I’m in Sherwood park Alberta I’m working on a real numbers 74 nova ss 350 4 speed car has a 355 now 13sec motor
Thanks for the comment TheHoule. I have been to Sherwood Park. I did some consulting for IPSCO steel there. I might be called EVRAZ or something else now. Merry Christmas. AG
A 13 second car on the street is a fun ride. AG
@@goldsgarage8236That’s cool,I work on pipelines here in British Columbia and I believe a lot of the pipe comes from EVRAZ in Regina 😊
I got a 88 caprice with 5.3 motor thinking bout 3:73 gears next
Thanks for the comment. I think you will like it. AG
AG, I put a 3.55 gear in my 73 Corvette and took out the 3.08 or 3.36? The 3.55 is an all around gear, but var would of ran much faster if I had put a 3.73 in it. Turbo 400 trans with a B&M 3,000 stall converter...
Thanks for the info Leonard. AG
It depends size of tire 3.55 is with 25 high tire
Thanks for the input Steve. AG
I have a question for you how come when you do a drive shaft people usually set the pinion angle of the drive shaft between 1 to 2°?
Good question. The driveshaft must be offset, or have pinion angle, (same thing) so that the needles in the universal joints rotate. Typically pinion angles are closer to 4 degrees, depending on the application. Hope this is what you were looking for. AG
Pinion angle is also necessary to compensate for the difference in elevation of the transmission output shaft and the differential in the chassis.AG
Enjoyed your video, my set up is a 454ci with a NP440/MY6 and 10 bolt posi 3.8:1 gear. The final drive in first is 9.52:1 and 2.25 in forth which is .73:1 all in a 78 nova. I don't think a street car can do much better other than go up to 3.42:1 gear for a better OD ratio. I have a 2.41:1 gear set if I want to go for a land speed record.
Thanks Joe, sounds like you have it figured out pretty good. AG
Correction, rear gear 3.08:1
First gear is a lot different between the m20 and the m21. Well second one third also, but the leave of the m20 is the ticket.
Correct David, that's why i have an M20 in the car and my M21 is in my basement. AG
The 2.20 ratio is for cars with a lower gear rearend... I always like the wide ratio with a 2.54 ratio first gear... Later 10 bolts are strong as a 12 bolt rearend. Early 10 bolts break fairly easy, especially if they are a single track...
Thanks Leonard. I think for standard order, GM required at least 3.73 rear with the M21 2.20 first gear. AG
Excellent information
Thanks for your comment @justin. AG
I did not know it's likely you will use the same shim for a different gear set.
Maybe not physically the same shim but the dimensions might be very similar.
Does this hold true for a 9 inch?
Thanks for the question Jenifer. No Ford 9" are set up differently in a separate housing, sometimes called a Pumpkin. They can then be installed (front loaded) already set up and adjusted. GM and other similar differentials with the rear cover must be installed and adjusted (shimmed) in the car. AG
@goldsgarage8236 You were talking about how precisely. The gears were machined and you could use the same shim pinion and bearing and it should sit in the same exact location, Or at least a very close starting point.
With this be the same on a Ford 9 inch? I realize it's a separate center section. Even so it's still has a similar design. I'm just asking about a new gear set being machined to similar tolerances of the original gearset And likely be able to use a similar shim.
Genifer, to be clear, Ford 9" use adjustable threaded collars, they do no use shims. AG
@goldsgarage8236 there are shims and a crush collar on the pinion gear.
Man just yesterday I was wondering how rpm is limited in an msd and here it is! fires every other spark hey? Thanks! Next question is, "why exactly do people say that hitting the chip can be hard on the engine? Please explain! I could google, but I enjoy your videos.
Good question Umakeme, lots of interest in this subject. Here is my take on it.
If the driver stays on the throttle, fuel and air mixture continues to flow into the cylinder but is not ignited. This can cause hydrolocking and/or excessive pressures. Then when it does fire, the MEP, (Mean effective Pressure) in the cylinder may be excessive. Also the misfire throws the engine off balance every time it misfires.
All the other comments, which I will get to, are correct, this is not good for an engine, but in short track circle track racing pretty much everyone does it, especially underpowered cars that need more RPM in the corner.
Typically they choose a gear ratio that will get the engine to the max RPM just before the point where they should lift and get on the brakes.
I don't like it either, but testing proves that lap times are better when you hit the chip twice every lap.
Hope this helps. AG
The worst thing you can do is continually use the revlimeter chip when the ignition box shuts off cylinders it creates vibrations in the engine and wears out the engine prematurely. Read the Rehe and Morrison engine building book. They can tell that every time they tear down an engine, the same engine used for same type of racing engine that uses the revlimeter all the time that engine is completely worn out. Then engine that dose not bump against the revlimeter is always still in good shape
I totally agree @jims. The problem is that drivers and racers care more about lap times and winning than about the engine. This is especially true with underpowered cars that need the RPM's coming out of the corner. Testing has proven that lap times are best when they hit the chip, so that is what they do. AG
I have a 1988 chevy 4x4 with 700r4 trans and 200 hp 350 engine with 3.42 gears if I change to 4.11 I have more bottom end torque plus towing power
Correct
You sure will. AG
Also, the higher you go numerically with the rear end gear ratio, the less likely you will blow up your tranny, but, the more pressure you put on the actual axle shafts. (depending on how much power you make and how heavy the car is)
correct, tanks for the input Jake. AG
You are using the shim to setup the pinion depth into the ring gear...
Correct, we used the original shim and got a nice contact pattern. AG
thank you for the video
Thanks you for watching and commenting Nerrad! AG
This guy is the Man!!! Thanks
Nice compliment. Thanks for watching and commenting Pee.AG
Why the r4 over a 4L?
What's with the Zeb
Thanks for the comment Tim, but not sure what you are referring to? AG
Why do you say Zeb are the letter z
Hey Tim! That is just the Canadian pronunciation. It works both ways. AG
I forgot about trans ratios too... converter stall.
AG, it takes more hp to pull a high gear or lower gear... It takes more for a lower gear because engine runs out of power, too much rpm...
Gear ratio depends on the weight of car and how much hp and torque the engine puts out, tire size also...
Correct, it all matters. Thanks Leonard. AG
What about the crush sleeve AG? 9" Ford doesn't have a crush sleeve...
Wrong wrong
I broke alot of muncie trans with a 2.73 rearend... 9" Ford rearend is the best, thats what I run in my fast car with a bigblock! 35 spline axles 10 bolt pinion support Ultra case Strange and axles... 4.86 gear for a 8 sec. car...
Thanks Leonard, a 9" Ford is what you need in an 8 second car. AG
Pontiac 9.3 works well
Right... 3.73 gear usually on rpm at 60 mph it is at 3,000... Depends on tire height. 4.88 is not good for street unless you have a lot of HP and torque, a lot of rpm involved. I know, I have a 8 sec. car in the 1/4 mile... 1/8th runs 5.62 at 123 mph... 1/4 runs 8.82 at 152.52 mph. 66 Chevelle tube chassis car and is light. 2,370 lbs. with driver. Car will run around 5.40's in the 1/8 th. 468 cu.in. on race gas and a single carb, SV1 made by Pro Systems, they have the world's fastest carb. Billet carb, one butter fly, round, two spray bars to discharge fuel into engine. It's better than the best 4500 dominator, makes 10 more HP over a dominator...
Thanks Leonard, an 8 second car is a serious hot rod. It would be a fun ride for sure. AG
Almost confused when referring to a front loader diff as a Quick Change because of the "Winters Quick Change" brand.
I don’t know why, but did Dana 60 I know it is tough as the Ford 9 inch and it’s like half the price can’t understand why nobody uses that. Maybe it’s a little bit heavier I don’t know but it sure is as strong and it sure is cheap.
Thanks Tucker, they are both more than you need for most street applications. AG
I like 3.73 gears!
They are fun in town! AG
older Ford econolines had 9" and 4.11's in the 6 cyls.
Good info @91, I bet many of them ended up in hot rods. AG
Rock-crusher is definitly a word over used and randomly thrown around, I`m 71yrs old and was the drive line Mr. Goodwrench in the 70`s In 12 yrs at the chevy dealership I only saw 2 of them, only needed clutches and both behind aluminum headed big blocks.........The whine they made was asume!
Thanks Ed, I always like to hear a real life experience. You had a cool job. AG
Tearend gear needs to be within the power range the car is being driven in AG.
I agree Leonard. AG
The rock crusher has straight cut gears instead of helical cut gears, thats why it whines !
Many muscle cars had big block engines with 4 spd transmissions. The same car with a 6 cylinder water heater only came with three on the tree. My Dad always said the 6 cylinder cars needed the 4 spd trans as they did not have the torque the big engines did. I know a guy that had a 68 Mustang with 390 and 4 gear. When out on a date he could drive around in 3rd gear. Proved what Dad said.
My sister had a '64 Dart GT convertible with a slant 6 and a four speed. It was a fun little thing. That transmission had a 3.09 first gear unlike the typical 833 that had a 2.69.
@@craigbenz4835Yes, there are some. The US market may have gotten the slant with 4 spd longer than Canada. After about 1962 the 4 spd was not optioned for 6 cylinder Mopar cars. Trucks could get the 4 spd truck trans.
When the gas crisis hit, all the OEM's added OD to 3 spd transmissions for economy. Then there was the numb nutz that shifted to "4th" at 45 MPH because that is what they had always done. Hammered the trans input bearing out from the low RPM.
Thanks for sharing your experience Dale. AG
Dont they have a 3.00 gear in a 9 inch???
I am sorry, I do not know but i would expect they will have something close to that. AG
You won't ever find a gear with an exact ratio. Gear manufacturers always use a "hunting tooth" so that the same teeth on the pinion don't always contact the same teeth on the gear. Instead of say a 3.0 which might have 10 teeth on the pinion and 30 on the gear, they would use a 10:31 ratio for 3.1. AG
@goldsgarage8236 I looked into this & found the teeth count to be 39-13 to make the 3.00 gear. So I think what u was meaning is not the ratio but the teeth count. However I found that the 3.50 gear is 35-10. 10 being a even number. But the 35 teeth on the ring gear is odd, is this what u meant?
Good research on your part Jesse. The 39-13 3.0:1 is an exception. So when the pinion rotates each tooth on the pinion will contact the same 3 teeth on the gear every revolution. This is not desirable for wear or noise. The number of teeth on the pinion should not divide into the number of teeth on the gear. By adding one extra "hunting tooth" the contact and therefore wear would be more evenly distributed. Hope this helps, let me know. AG
Yes I changed a dozen z sto 4.56 Impalas to. 4.88 an 5.13s glides would change at 15 mph ! Good gas was ..23 a gallon !
Never ever ever set up a race engine to run off of the chip and only use the chip to protect the drive train. The cylinder chamber pressure becomes very inefficient and dangerous to the piston when the spark plug only fires intermittently on the chip. Piston damage is a sure thing.
Thanks sqr. I agree with you, but drivers care more about lap times and winning races. Especially if they are underpowered and need the torque coming out of the corner. Testing has shown that lap times are better when they hit the chip, so they do it anyway. AG
2004r or 4L80. I blew up so many 700r4 it wasn;t funny.. My built 2004r has lived quite a few years now behind 1300 hp engine. Going 4L80 when I up it to 1600. I wouldn;t put a 700 in anything with more than 400 hp. The gear splits suck too.
Thanks Paul. You are in a different league with 1300HP. The 2004r is a great choice, I should have mentioned it also. AG
I have no problem with gear whine. Timing gears especially.
Rock crushers were cool, you could hear them coming. AG
Just to be clear, a higher rear end ratio will give you better fuel economy.
Yes, within limits, lower numerically. A 3.08:1 is higher than a 4.10:1. AG
Ok everything he is talking about as far as gears are GM 10 and 12 bolt type differentials.
thanks for watching and commenting Carolyn.
M22 has straight cut gears which are noisy, weaker but run cooler
Thanks for your comment Ben. AG
Stronger
@@robr5786 weaker, if you have a gear that's 1" wide and gears are straight cut, gear is 1" wide. If gears diagonally cut then gears are about 1.25" wide and case needs to be stronger because of the side load that's created and then there's the heat involved 🧐
When I was young I broke my 8.2 10 bolt twice out on the street..
It didn’t like 30 mph 6000 rpm clutch drops.. go figure.
Thanks @b.s. I guess you can break anything if you try hard enough. AG
My 66 442 with 3:90’s at 60 mph it turns 2900 rpm
A helical gear in a transmission is not stronger than a straight cut gear. Wrong about that. Also, the Dana 60 is the ultimate differential for a drag car. Not a 9 inch Ford. Also the pinion on a 9 inch is lower thus causing more parasitic power loss than other diffs.
The Pontiac/Olds 9.3 is right about there in strength with Dana 60, unfortunately they quit making make in 64 and parts are expensive these days
Steve Mossis has a really good video about why you NEVER want to hit the rev limiter. It is so hard on engines that he will replace the rods asap if one of his engines hits the limiter hard.
Thanks for the info Bdd. Circle tracks and sanctioning organizations impose RPM limits to equalize the competition. They enforce them using rev limiters. They test the chips and rev limiters routinely as part of Teck inspection.
I don't like it either but racers know that they will get the best lap times when they hit the chip so that is what they do. This is especially true with underpowered cars that need all the torque they can get out of the corner.
Actually our experience is that we get 3-4 years (About 10,000 laps on 1/2 mile track) on our engine without touching it. We do a leak down and compression test, change the valve springs, and dyno it every year. It often makes more power than the year before. If the power falls off, we freshen it.
I think drag racers also use rev limiters routinely on the launch.
3.36 gears for me!
3.36 is pretty good too, not much difference. AG
Wonder why they make the ford 9" with a 3.0:1 ratio
thanks Jesse. It might work well on a 1.5 mile track. AG
We had a F100 with a 9 inch rear end and 3.00.1 gears. It was well over 300K miles on it.
Not really a solid comparison on Dave and Gary's cars. It could only be if the two engines were making the same torque at the same RPM- linear. That 427 looks like it has a cam sacrificing some low end grunt where the 2.52 ratio wants to live. I always tell people, I don't care about peak numbers, I care about where the values are throughout the whole range on the chart.
Okay so after you multiply the first gear ratio times your torque I get that part but after that none of your math makes any sense. It says torque at rear wheels foot pounds times weight and then you got car weight next to that you're not explaining that properly. I like your channel I wish you would explain that
Thanks for the question Richard. Torque at the rear axle in first gear is torque at the flywheel x overall gear ratio. (transmission first gear ratio x rear end gear ratio.) So if I have 400ft.lb at the flywheel and a 2.52 first gear and 3.55 rear end it would be 400x2.52x3.55= 3578ft.lb. (of course there is an efficiency loss due to friction and heat along the way) Next is the ratio of the weight of the car to torque. Acceleration =Force/mass. If you look at the chart we posted, it might help you to understand. Hope this helps. AG
"If you don't want to re-use the cast shims you can use other shims equal to the thickness." You can tell this guy genenerally only shims garage queens and weekend warriors. Almost always on a driver with mileage the cast iron shims are worn to the point where it requires little effort to remove/reinsert them. What do you expect when hearing the auto gospel from a guy who continuously has hands as clean and soft as a baby's azz, a clean uniform with a square collar, and employees... Just for the record- I have over 200k on my gears from the late 90s and for sure would expect gears to hold up on a low mileage gear swap. I have heart though, never have I been in a position to have to "buy my car back."
A dana 60 is the strongest rear ,with a 9 3/4 " ring gear it is way stronger than a 9" ford!
Thanks for the comment Andrew. AG
Yes a Dana IS stronger than a Ford 9".
It's also heavier and a LOT harder to work on .
Ur explanation is so damn confusing. There has to be a way easier way to understand. Maybe u can touch back on this one day and make it less confusing 😂😂😂
Thanks for the comment Melvin. Can you tell me what part is confusing you and I will try to help you with it! AG
Real cars don't have a clutch or stupid names like rock rockcrusher.
The rock crusher is legendary!
Thanks for your comment Hector. AG
I added .005 to the left side when the backlash was right
I. Drove 67 -- 68 - 69 z-28s junk my 69 nova 396-375 was bad - hard on squirrel nuts then moroso nu
ts , be careful what u say I was there - I learned in 12th grade without u- tube , in 1970 the big mtrs put me 3 links even though I had .540 - 560. Chev service cam 😅
Ford in high school sold mismatched. Ring an pinions for diffrent ratios gvm doesn't but same rule
U should know from ex perience back up straight to line u
Line up the spiders for posi for those cheapese3
Wrong not a 4.88 pinion gear not 11 teeth ,in 69 I was in hi school changing gears and 110 needle bearings inside the clusters of munchies 4 fake !!!
A 4.88:1 is 8-39. I will demonstrate it on the next video. AG
Get ur son to this fake !!!!!