I like how Austin encourages Richard to talk about the specifics that he loves even if he didn't connect with it in the same way. That's how you foster good discussion. Going to miss these - As a big WoT fan, I both enjoy people loving and hating the series. It's a weird thing.
I don''t think it's weird at all, I also like reading or watching negative reviews of media I love, it's good to get a different perspective in my opinion.
Genuinely, Austin should not be reading the wheel of time at this point in his life. No one should feel like they're forced to read something or feel pressured to because it takes all of the enjoyment out of it. If he later decides to pick it up and enjoys it, that's wonderful, but forcing yourself to read a 14 book series because other people want you to read it is hell.
This is actually a good idea. I don’t think people should read books they don’t love. I have listened to the series all the way through twice since the pandemic and I didn’t love it as much the second time. I still really really love it, but it gets a bit too gender role specific at many points in the series. If you can get past this, and the generic ness of calling the bad guy the “dark one” it’s the best book ever written. 😊
An older video of yours popped up in my feed, and I gotta say, Richard is looking phenomenal. I’m not sure if it’s because he’s talking about wheel of time, he’s more comfortable on camera, or if it’s the weight loss, but he’s coming across as far happier and energetic. I’m happy to see that you two are thriving (or at least, appearing to be) with this podcast!
Hes doing great. Seriously health-wise and personal. Proud of him (in a non condescending way) (Or actually make it condescending bc screw him) hes doing awesome
YESSS, I’ve been waiting for this video since I found your channel and watched your other 3 WoT videos; so excited to hear you guys talks about this book, especially since I just finished reading it a couple weeks ago! 🎉
Boo, if Austin has a million haters I’m one of them. If Austin has ten haters then i am one of them. If Austin has one hater then that hater is me. If Austin has no haters then I am no longer on Earth. If the world is supporting Austin then I am against the world. You HAVE to like the same books as me 😡
I would rather have no other hater. You weote your hate so poetically Im actually quite proud to call you my #1 hater. Brings a tear to my eye, a beautiful tear
The thing about the importance of men and women working together is that this book (and arguably the series) isn't supposed to be an example of how they can best work together, it's a cautionary tale of what happens when they don't.
Yes! The Gathering Storm is my favorite and the series could have ended there. I mentioned to John@ Talking Story that when he decides to pick up the books again he should invite you on for discussion. He read the first 6 books before he created his channel and had no one to share it with. When you were discussing WOT on his channel I loved all your insights! A John & Richard WOT collaboration would be booktube heaven!
I finally finished Wheel of Time recently after reading it over a 3 year period. I both loved it and hated it in equal measures but the journey was epic. I agree entirely with all of Austin's points and all of Richard's points.
@@BBNBRM-mt4gsPacing is not even the worst aspect, as bad as it is. The worst aspect is I can't take the books seriously because everyone and I mean everyone (forsaken, aes sedai characters 500+ years old etc, every character) besides Moraine and occasionally Rand, reads like they're a fucking child. George RR Martin does cleverness very well, Tolkien does wisdom very well, Jordan fails abysmally at both. The ideas are grand, the character work (if condensed) is great but everything else is terrible, from prose to pacing, to the logic of events. Definitely regret reading 14 of these books, especially annoying because the potential really was there, the author just wasn't the right one.
I’d love to see a series of videos where instead of talking about one book, Richard and Austin each talk about a book they really enjoy but the other might not have read. Essentially, take the older one sided reviews from the channel, like The Blade Itself, but both guys pitch a book and talk about it. It could be a nice solution for those who want to hear Richard talk more about Wheel of Time, while also providing Austin an opportunity to talk about something he enjoys and is excited about.
Loving these reviews. I started reading Wheel of Time when I was a teenager and I've re-read the series maybe 4-5 times now. I definitely enjoy it for different reasons now as an adult. I found out that a coworker also read the full series and it was the first time I ever met anyone IRL that read the WoT. We talked about it for days during our break time at work. It was so fun to have a discussion. Been loving you guys review it and its so interesting to have someone who has read the book vs. perspective of someone who has not.
This review reminded me why I love this book series! I’ve been on break from the series since reading The Shadow Rising because I wanted to finish the storm light archives, but I’m definitely reading the Fires of Heaven when I finish Rhythm of War!
Richard, thank you for your passionate telling, and Austin, you get the best out of him telling his views! I really enjoy viewing this video´s, I´m sorry to hear this won´t continue
Now that I’ve read them all, 4 is one of the better ones. The Battle of Emonds Field went from 60 to 0 though for me because as soon as Faile brought the reinforcements the battle ended abruptly. It’s like if the Rohirrim showed up at Pellenor and Theoden gives his speech and then we jump cut to Scruffy sweeping long dead orc corpses away. I concur Gathering Storm was probably my favorite.
Love your guys channel! In terms of reviews I’d love to see, I know you mention the name of the wind quite a lot and I’d love to see that considering your differing opinions, as well as the assassin apprentice! The elderlings series is my fave
I just finished Shadow Rising and immediately began watching your review and just for that you’ll have to physically kick me out of the patreon… I refuse to leave 😂 I really enjoyed The Shadow Rising and have requested The Fires of Vengeance from my library. I should get it mid-august unless I break and buy it for myself before then (I’ll buy them eventually anyway 😅)
Austin I’m kinda in your boat; however, I’ve stuck with it and am on book 8. I’m here for the world building and because I want to be a part of the community overall.
Been excitedly waiting on this for a while... in the time between your book 2 and 4 reviews I've read the first 7 and am loving it. Even if Austin has the worst opinions I love getting both your perspectives on the content. Make him finish it. For us.
I feel like I remember @iangubeli saying he wanted to get around to WoT? He always has such a positive attitude and open mind, I think it’d be really fun to see him and Richard together!
@@ivorv5063idk if it’s so much a matter of “he can’t” read wot and more he’s just not liking it. Malazan while deep and complicated does have a much different feel to it. I think if he could get hooked by it he’d like it
I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I know a while back they mentioned really wanting to do First Law by Joe Abercrombie. So that might be what's next. Just a heads up!
Well it´s been an awesome journey and it makes me kinda sad that I´ll probably never watch a WOT podcast anytime soon but at the same time it´s absolutely understandable. I´m grateful to Austin´s patience with a series he didn´t like because if he hadn´t endured this many reviews I wouldn´t have met or followed you guys.
Austin needs to be reminded of the line from Stormlight and think how it applies to WoT: Journey before destination on my first read I didn't enjoy book 4 (and 5) that much mainly because of the Aiel. Learning their history, culture, etc it just didn't click for me but on a reread, damn. Appreciating the history so much more, and realizing who they are talking about being the forsaken before they took new names. The moment the bore was made. How the cultures are, how they relate to each other and the world it's a shame Austin won't be continuing for some time, if ever. No docks, no box for him
I actually exclusively listened to the audio book and it is among my favourite series -- i think the things that make the character frustrating to alot of people is also what makes them very human, this includes their inability to learn their lessons and the fact that sometimes information will be repeatedly discussed as to properly convey it to multiple peoples. Alot of my frustrations on first read were actually positives on second and third reads -- ive gone through this series three tines so far and loved it each time. The start is always slow tho
On the topic of men and women working together. I don't think the theme is fully realized in book 4. The platonic relationships between men and women, and the respect between the genders that grows through the series, is the full realization. The best relationships in WoT are the ones that allow freedom and trust. Characters have lives and duties outside of their loved one, and romantic relationships thrive when there is mutual respect.
1:28:00 I respectfully disagree. I would't say, that the hierarchy of the Dark One works good in any way. The Forsaken aren constantly throwing each other under the bus, struggeling for power. Which ist, interestingly, how most totalitarian systems look on the inside. I'm German and I have a degree in history. Trust me, is you look behind the facade of the Third Reich, if you put way the courtain of all the propaganda about "German efficency", "fast and decisive action", bational unitty" and "unstoppable soldiers" you will find a bunch of weak pathetic men, sontantly stabbing each other in the back (sometimes literally) and squabbeling for power. For me the politics-part of WoT is in fact aout the opposite: Democracy (or at least a more egalitarian form of monarcy, because its still fantasy) in the end is the stronger system. It is just sooooo much harder to build and maintain. Rand in the beginning constaltly struggels with his friends and all of tehir inetrests, which are often understandable but really get in his way. And with all of the nations ist basically the same. But the good guy actually do it. They bite their teeth and they bargain. They learn about all these annoying cultures and values, they often heavily disagree with. And this makes their progress much slower, than the Shadow. But once it is built, it is also much stronger.
Don't worry too much about it. I spent years reading untill I finished wheel of time. In between I read all of the cosmere, first law, wittcher and several other series. Its a good series to read a book, put it away, and then pick it back up once you hear it calling for you again
I commend Austins perseverance in getting this far and completely understand him wanting to pull the plug, at least for the foreseeable anyway. There are too many good books out there and not enough time to read them all to be stuck reading something youre not enjoying.
Ah, the Shadow Rising. I’d put it smack dab in the middle to slightly above average point in The Wheel of Time. When I read it I had no idea it was almost universally praised as the best book, I had a good time but it wasn’t anything special. The Fires of Heaven and The Lord of Chaos though… THOSE are what REALLY got me into The Wheel of Time and are probably the only reason I actually made it through the slog. And the slog is real Austin, the slog is real. None compare to The Gathering Storm though, that’s the best book in the series. Btw, when are you guys gonna read The Will of the Many??? I think you guys would really enjoy it. I was OBSESSED with that book.
If austin didn't enjoy book 4, he'd HATE book 5. I binged the first five books this year and i'm ready for a break too. I feel what you said about these books killing your reading momentum. Same here. I'll get back to book 6 in 3-4 months.
I'm glad he actually agrees the world-building is great finaly. Sad that he doesn't connect with the characters. I think Jordan was fantastic with characters and even the secondary and tertiary characters had interesting stories and motivations.
Personally I'd say its a good call to pause/stop if book 4 isnt your cup of tea. Theres 10 more and book 4 is one of my top 3 in the series. And if your not into the length then I wouldnt recommend it either: I loved it as an audiobook series since I would be doing other things anyway.
It may just be a generational or environmental thing. I grew up in a small town in the 80’s, a lot of these things are familiar to me. I’ve seen women and men with attitudes like these. Also, with Rand and his women, I’ve always felt like they were the splintered soul of his previous love.
So many thoughts and feelings here. Come on Austin. Did you dislike Words of Radiance and Oathbringer because of the love triangle? Richard, you should just do reviews alone if he isn't enjoying the series.
Id agree with bigboy on this and I think from my POV - the message of the Wheel of Time is going for a critical message between men and women working together, with other themes of course, but I see this as a primary driver of the series - the relationship between men and women. While Stormlight is primarily about mental health (multiple personality disorder, redeeming oneself from guilt, suicide/depression) while the love triangle is hardly a drop in the bucket and didnt distract me from the main themes. Whereas in WOT it’s very distracting because it is the main purpose, in my opinion. And if the romance doesn’t connect, the story wont. And I see the romance as very superficial and am not invested. But hey - just my 2 cents
Man, I just finished The Shadow Rising and jumped right into The Fires of Heaven and it starts out pretty strong. Sucks to see I probably wont get to hear your guys thoughts on that, I get it though. I feel like you maybe caught it at the wrong time, like you aren't vibing with the slow burn of the WoT
Actually, I'm not watching this because I like WoT. I'm watching because I like Austin and Richard. 😁 But for the record, I fully agree with Austin on this one.
Yeah!🎉 ... 😂😂😂... It took me 12 years... the first 10 was books 1 through 5... I almost gave up at book 7... but listened to my cousin and gave it to Winter's Heart... then there was no stopping me... I threw in New Spring just before reading the final book... no regrets... The final battle made it all worth it... but so glad I had some Gwynne and Cahill going on because, The Faithful and The Fallen and The Bound and the Broken was just what I needed to keep me out of a epic fantasy reading funk. Just saying... I think I'm in the middle ground. I understand Austin's struggle... so much. But also appreciate why Richard holds this series in such esteem... but I won't be rereading.
I could’ve seen this coming based on earlier reviews, it’s okay not to like the wheel of time! I personally think it’s the best fantasy series ever written but it has some flaws that drive people crazy so I understand.
At the risk of becoming WoT fandom's enemy #1, it is so refreshing to hear someone share my opinions on WoT, Austin! At the end of the day, we don't all like the same cup of tea, but gaddam if it isn't nice to occasionally get some validation for your own perspective. 😂 I am currently in-between books 7 and 8 at the moment. Every now and then something happens that gives me hope, but overall I'm not optimistic about the rest of the series. I think maybe if I had started reading it 15 years ago, I might have found a lot of the things that now seem sort of dated and cliche more tolerable. I feel like it's the sort of series that would leave an impression on you and stick with you if it was your first foray into epic fantasy, but since that's not my experience with it, I'm really struggling to see why it's held in such high regard by so many fantasy fans. To its credit, it does have a fascinating magic system, but unfortunately my opinion of the worldbuilding crumbled a bit after watching Dune (no, I haven't read it yet, sue me). I think the characters are well fleshed-out, consistent, and mostly believable (albeit ridiculous), and we get arguably the most in-depth look into their differing perspectives that I've ever read in any book before. That being said, after a few books the character dynamics start to feel like watching a bad reality TV show on repeat (something that I've never actually done because the thought of it is torturous). I know some people who would find that endlessly entertaining, but for me, it stresses me out, and those little rewards when the characters finally come together in understanding are just not big enough or often enough to make up for it. I had really high hopes for the series when I started it, and in some ways those were met (magic system, -worldbuilding- ), but disappointingly I am not yet a fan.
I'm a few months behind on this read through. It's my first read through of this series ever. (I'm also coming back from an 11 year reading hiatus) I'm enjoying the series. Though after this book I'm gonna take a break. Not a big reader though I'm trying to change that. I feel like an 8 year old learning video games with Dark Souls when I read this series.
Daniel Greene. Do a book by book review with Daniel Greene. From what I’ve seen he’s one of the biggest WOT TH-camrs and he is absolutely in love with the series I’m sure you all would have PLENTY to talk about
The Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones, and a dash of Feist were my Teenage years. Fires of Heaven was my favorite but yeah reviewing it straight through us too tall of an ask. Also I love Matt if my profile shot didn’t give that away
I totaly get why Rand distrusts Moraine. I don‘t think she is a Darkfriend, but I have no doubt that she tries to control him and use him. And of course Rand isn‘t cool with that.
I also stopped reading WoT after book 4 about a year ago. I hated the first book, really liked books 2 and 3 and was meh/middle of the road on 4. I dunno why the series didn’t click with me, because It had everything I love about fantasy. Idk it was pacing or authors voice or what, But someday I really hope to finish them all. It’s just a really daunting task when there are so many and I don’t feel as invested as I do was most books. I commend Austin for getting thru 4 books tho! Tis no easy task
Richard - I'm reading and reviewing one Wheel of Time book a month, just finished The Shadow Rising, would love for you to join my full spoiler discussion series with another booktuber!
Funny enough, I'm quite enjoying the series reading alongside you guys, but somehow I'm still reading at a slower pace than Austin (just have a couple chapters left now) 😅 By the way, I agree that maybe going forward (if it happens) not using the audiobook could help. I tried it for a bit, and I found my attention kept wandering much more than just reading the book physically.
Honestly I loved the first five books but Lord of Chaos put me into a reading slump. Wheel of Time is so damn slow it’s infuriating. I may return and complete the series later but at this point reading Wheel of Time has become a chore
Same, i forced myself to read all the way to book 9 cause people kept saying it gets better, but at this point i actively hate half the main characters i doubt i will finish the series
@@Kari-qv1wn why force yourself if you dont enjoy it, i somehow managed to finish it and i almost regret it. there are so many great fantasy books out there and so little time.
I think I will like the series more when I listen to it on audiobook specifically because I find the prose is so long winded that it drives me into a reading slump but I plan to continue VERY soon (I reached halfway through book 5 before knowing it will send me into a reading slump and I hate those) Edit: I just started wondering- how different would gay people vs straight people view this series? I’m curious because of what the story wants to tackle between men and women and I imagine people who are gay would view the series differently from someone like me- who is a straight guy.
Not sure if they'll see this, but I can give my thoughts. I've only read Blood Song, but it's a fantastic character-driven story told in a frame setting. It follows Vaelin, a young man whose nobleman father drops him off at the doors of the Sixth Order, a religious soldier training camp for young boys to become warriors. You follow Vaelin through his life as he becomes brothers with the boys in his group, unravels mysteries, falls in love, and becomes a servant of the King. Unfortunately, from everything I have heard, the other two books in the Trilogy are god-awful. You get the occasional person who says they're great, but that's the equivalent of saying Dark Souls 2 is your favorite Souls game, or Annette is your favorite Nightwish singer (if you're in either of those niches. If not, just know it's an unpopular opinion.) 2toRamble reviewed The Pariah, and Richard gave it a 6 and Austin gave it a 5. Overall, from everything I know, the concensus is that Blood Song us amazing and everything else is just OK to below average.
Yeah I’ve read 1-5 so far, like it a lot, and I’m reading it physically… I don’t think I would like it nearly as much if I was listening to the audiobooks.
Bro is skimming through the story for sure, wouldn't be surprised if it's all audiobooks, but even then, if he was, he wouldn't call Selene "Sylene" either. I don't understand how you can read ~1 million words and comprehend close to none of it 😂
Reading through this series was very strange (I just finished the last book a couple months ago), because I'm generally more of a reader like Austin, but I could see where Richard was coming from while reading this series. Generally when I'm thinking about Wheel of Time, my conclusion winds up being that it is the most important 5.5/10 series out there. It is so obvious how formative the series was to the fantasy genre and the strength it can have in literature, yet it is so dramatically flawed that at times it just straight hurts. For me, the bulk of my issue with Jordan's writing style comes with his pacing and timing. I genuinely think that you could get the entire series, all of its messages, the nuance, and the (intended) emotions, in 7-8 books instead of the 14 (technically 15) that the series wound up being. The best things about the worldbuilding that seems to have caught Richard when he was originally reading it could have still been in there, while still being more efficient and holding on to the attention of readers like Austin and me. Comparing fantasy series can be difficult, but if we think about the worldbuilding of the other big hitters of fantasy (I'm thinking Stormlight, ASOIAF, LOTR) and we think about how they were get their worldbuilding and messages across, with some of the most impressive worlds and themes in the Fantasy genre, and then we think about how long those series are, then I think that the flaw with Jordans writing could be a bit more understandable. When I got to this point in WOT, I was happy that the book finally felt much better to me, but it wound up being more of a "finally we're getting somewhere" than anything else, which felt great at the time, but in hindsight is not the kind of feeling I want to feel again when reading a series. It is strange to read books where the characters are moving forward and are changing, yet rarely feel like they are at the time. This made the series so difficult to read, since because of that the character arcs took forever, which considering how few POV characters there actually are in WOT and how long the series is, I genuinely thought was a major flaw with it. It was just so strange to experience a world so completely made, yet so badly paced as a story, at least for me. Apology comment for fans of the series coming forthwith.
Oh that's sad you guys are stopping with the reviews. I just finished TSR and I was intimidated by WOT for years and finally started it this year and it is the best fantasy series/books I have ever read so far. I keep thinking back to moments from dragon reborn and the ending of the great hunt
Richard. When I first read the story in the 90s and 00s as a teen and 20 something lad from a literal farm village of 300 people I couldn't stand Nyneave. As a 40 something now she might be my favorite non Mat character. Did you feel anything similar in your reread?
I sadly agree with Austin, I can see the story moving forward and I’m sure that if Richard could tell the story it would be better. I’ll finish the series someday cause I need to read the Sanderson climax, but I really feel like the story itself moves forward just because it has to, and it is not organic at all. Even when Rand proclaims himself with the Aiel wise dudes, I didn’t feel any shiver. It was just happening because it had to plot wise. I’m so sad about this cause I was so hyped, it is just not ment for me…
Aw and the flashback chapter in the desert, the most incomprehensible thing I’ve read. I don’t know if it’s fault of the Italian translation. Lots of love from Tuscany guys, keep going you’re fire ✌️🤩🔥
See, i want something different from everyone else. Let austin read the next book and really review it, go in on what he doesnt like, give it a review kinda like they did with a court of thorns and roses, then have richard react to his pre recorded review. Best of both worlds.
I am like Austin on this one, I don't like the series. BUT I am now on book... 8 maybe? Because I really want to know what the fuss is about ahah So I hope you continue with it eventually!
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
Let's just accept that Austin does not like good literature, and be happy with the fact that he found Red Rising.
😂😂
I like how Austin encourages Richard to talk about the specifics that he loves even if he didn't connect with it in the same way. That's how you foster good discussion. Going to miss these - As a big WoT fan, I both enjoy people loving and hating the series. It's a weird thing.
I don''t think it's weird at all, I also like reading or watching negative reviews of media I love, it's good to get a different perspective in my opinion.
Genuinely, Austin should not be reading the wheel of time at this point in his life. No one should feel like they're forced to read something or feel pressured to because it takes all of the enjoyment out of it. If he later decides to pick it up and enjoys it, that's wonderful, but forcing yourself to read a 14 book series because other people want you to read it is hell.
I’d love to see richard just solo review the rest of the series or do the review with the alternate book tuber!
I was thinking the same thing. I love hearing Richard’s takes involving the series!!!
As much as personally I’d love that, I don’t want to see Andre and BigBoi move to opposite ends of the Country.
This is actually a good idea. I don’t think people should read books they don’t love. I have listened to the series all the way through twice since the pandemic and I didn’t love it as much the second time. I still really really love it, but it gets a bit too gender role specific at many points in the series. If you can get past this, and the generic ness of calling the bad guy the “dark one” it’s the best book ever written. 😊
I kind of like the contrast of their perspectives better than just having someone who loves the series.
Richard, I think you know what you have to do. Lock Austin in your basement and only let him see his family once he finishes the series.
This is actually quite fair, all things considered
Would you turn Richard into Duolingo?!
Finally!!! Been waiting for this for so long.
Edit: Austin is now public enemy number 1
😁
An older video of yours popped up in my feed, and I gotta say, Richard is looking phenomenal. I’m not sure if it’s because he’s talking about wheel of time, he’s more comfortable on camera, or if it’s the weight loss, but he’s coming across as far happier and energetic. I’m happy to see that you two are thriving (or at least, appearing to be) with this podcast!
Hes doing great. Seriously health-wise and personal. Proud of him (in a non condescending way) (Or actually make it condescending bc screw him) hes doing awesome
YESSS, I’ve been waiting for this video since I found your channel and watched your other 3 WoT videos; so excited to hear you guys talks about this book, especially since I just finished reading it a couple weeks ago! 🎉
Boo, if Austin has a million haters I’m one of them. If Austin has ten haters then i am one of them. If Austin has one hater then that hater is me. If Austin has no haters then I am no longer on Earth. If the world is supporting Austin then I am against the world.
You HAVE to like the same books as me 😡
I would rather have no other hater. You weote your hate so poetically Im actually quite proud to call you my #1 hater. Brings a tear to my eye, a beautiful tear
@@2ToRamble Jokes aside love the channel. 🖤
The thing about the importance of men and women working together is that this book (and arguably the series) isn't supposed to be an example of how they can best work together, it's a cautionary tale of what happens when they don't.
And yeah, I would say that that is not the main theme or even one of the top 3.
Yes! The Gathering Storm is my favorite and the series could have ended there. I mentioned to John@ Talking Story that when he decides to pick up the books again he should invite you on for discussion. He read the first 6 books before he created his channel and had no one to share it with. When you were discussing WOT on his channel I loved all your insights! A John & Richard WOT collaboration would be booktube heaven!
So glad you dropped this today since I reread Shadow last week. Perfect timing
I finally finished Wheel of Time recently after reading it over a 3 year period. I both loved it and hated it in equal measures but the journey was epic.
I agree entirely with all of Austin's points and all of Richard's points.
🤝
Agree with the pacing. The series did not need to be 14 books.
@@BBNBRM-mt4gs in story the series is only like 2 years long
@@BBNBRM-mt4gsPacing is not even the worst aspect, as bad as it is. The worst aspect is I can't take the books seriously because everyone and I mean everyone (forsaken, aes sedai characters 500+ years old etc, every character) besides Moraine and occasionally Rand, reads like they're a fucking child. George RR Martin does cleverness very well, Tolkien does wisdom very well, Jordan fails abysmally at both. The ideas are grand, the character work (if condensed) is great but everything else is terrible, from prose to pacing, to the logic of events. Definitely regret reading 14 of these books, especially annoying because the potential really was there, the author just wasn't the right one.
@@alb0zfinest Logic of events ?
This video saved my marriage.
Your welcome
I’d love to see a series of videos where instead of talking about one book, Richard and Austin each talk about a book they really enjoy but the other might not have read. Essentially, take the older one sided reviews from the channel, like The Blade Itself, but both guys pitch a book and talk about it. It could be a nice solution for those who want to hear Richard talk more about Wheel of Time, while also providing Austin an opportunity to talk about something he enjoys and is excited about.
Thank you for the idea on this! We actually have a video series in mind that will be just like this
@@2ToRamble hell yeah, I’m excited
Finally. Been waiting for so long. Love your content/channel
Loving these reviews. I started reading Wheel of Time when I was a teenager and I've re-read the series maybe 4-5 times now. I definitely enjoy it for different reasons now as an adult.
I found out that a coworker also read the full series and it was the first time I ever met anyone IRL that read the WoT. We talked about it for days during our break time at work. It was so fun to have a discussion. Been loving you guys review it and its so interesting to have someone who has read the book vs. perspective of someone who has not.
This review reminded me why I love this book series! I’ve been on break from the series since reading The Shadow Rising because I wanted to finish the storm light archives, but I’m definitely reading the Fires of Heaven when I finish Rhythm of War!
Fires of heaven is great
Richard, thank you for your passionate telling, and Austin, you get the best out of him telling his views! I really enjoy viewing this video´s, I´m sorry to hear this won´t continue
Now that I’ve read them all, 4 is one of the better ones.
The Battle of Emonds Field went from 60 to 0 though for me because as soon as Faile brought the reinforcements the battle ended abruptly. It’s like if the Rohirrim showed up at Pellenor and Theoden gives his speech and then we jump cut to Scruffy sweeping long dead orc corpses away.
I concur Gathering Storm was probably my favorite.
Also, this was the one where I planted my feet and decided to finish the series out of spite.
I had been waiting for this wayyyy toooo longg!!! Hope FOH doesn't take much time
They are not doing it
I would love to see Richard review the wheel of time books, on his own with someone I don’t mind please carry on 😢
Holding out my hope before I watch that Austin pulled a 180 and rated this above an 8
Oh no….
@@Sisyphaded xD he did nottt...
😂😂
Austin, I fully agree with everything you say. Thank god I’ve finally found someone who doesn’t like this series. Stay strong!
We stand together!
Love your guys channel! In terms of reviews I’d love to see, I know you mention the name of the wind quite a lot and I’d love to see that considering your differing opinions, as well as the assassin apprentice! The elderlings series is my fave
F.I.N.A.L.L.Y.
Holy mother of braid tugging, I have been waiting for this for so long !
Sad to see the reviews go though... Whelp
I just finished Shadow Rising and immediately began watching your review and just for that you’ll have to physically kick me out of the patreon… I refuse to leave 😂 I really enjoyed The Shadow Rising and have requested The Fires of Vengeance from my library. I should get it mid-august unless I break and buy it for myself before then (I’ll buy them eventually anyway 😅)
😂
I love how teh Aiel twisted the rule of "not take up arms" to become "not weild a sword"
Austin I’m kinda in your boat; however, I’ve stuck with it and am on book 8. I’m here for the world building and because I want to be a part of the community overall.
Been excitedly waiting on this for a while... in the time between your book 2 and 4 reviews I've read the first 7 and am loving it. Even if Austin has the worst opinions I love getting both your perspectives on the content. Make him finish it. For us.
I feel like I remember @iangubeli saying he wanted to get around to WoT? He always has such a positive attitude and open mind, I think it’d be really fun to see him and Richard together!
So maybe malazan next? I've only read book 1 so far but it would be cool to read it alongside your reviews
If Austin couldnt finish wot i dont think he will with malazan
@@ivorv5063idk if it’s so much a matter of “he can’t” read wot and more he’s just not liking it. Malazan while deep and complicated does have a much different feel to it. I think if he could get hooked by it he’d like it
I'm not sure if this is still the case, but I know a while back they mentioned really wanting to do First Law by Joe Abercrombie. So that might be what's next. Just a heads up!
We may do this next as a long series! (But are going to tackle shorter series in the meantime)
@@2ToRamble Maybe go for the Earthsea books cause they are short reads
What happened to the 10-point Rambler Rating scale???
We are using stars now and will explain in a future video - but using it to be more understandable and helps us with rating things!
Austin is actually pretty spot on with the Paul-fremen Rand-Aiel comparison with what happens in later books
Omg I swear I've been super expecting this. Once I finish watching I'll edit or comment this video!
Oh my God...
Well it´s been an awesome journey and it makes me kinda sad that I´ll probably never watch a WOT podcast anytime soon but at the same time it´s absolutely understandable.
I´m grateful to Austin´s patience with a series he didn´t like because if he hadn´t endured this many reviews I wouldn´t have met or followed you guys.
Austin needs to be reminded of the line from Stormlight and think how it applies to WoT: Journey before destination
on my first read I didn't enjoy book 4 (and 5) that much mainly because of the Aiel. Learning their history, culture, etc it just didn't click for me but on a reread, damn. Appreciating the history so much more, and realizing who they are talking about being the forsaken before they took new names. The moment the bore was made. How the cultures are, how they relate to each other and the world
it's a shame Austin won't be continuing for some time, if ever. No docks, no box for him
I actually exclusively listened to the audio book and it is among my favourite series -- i think the things that make the character frustrating to alot of people is also what makes them very human, this includes their inability to learn their lessons and the fact that sometimes information will be repeatedly discussed as to properly convey it to multiple peoples.
Alot of my frustrations on first read were actually positives on second and third reads -- ive gone through this series three tines so far and loved it each time.
The start is always slow tho
On the topic of men and women working together. I don't think the theme is fully realized in book 4. The platonic relationships between men and women, and the respect between the genders that grows through the series, is the full realization. The best relationships in WoT are the ones that allow freedom and trust. Characters have lives and duties outside of their loved one, and romantic relationships thrive when there is mutual respect.
1:28:00 I respectfully disagree. I would't say, that the hierarchy of the Dark One works good in any way. The Forsaken aren constantly throwing each other under the bus, struggeling for power. Which ist, interestingly, how most totalitarian systems look on the inside. I'm German and I have a degree in history. Trust me, is you look behind the facade of the Third Reich, if you put way the courtain of all the propaganda about "German efficency", "fast and decisive action", bational unitty" and "unstoppable soldiers" you will find a bunch of weak pathetic men, sontantly stabbing each other in the back (sometimes literally) and squabbeling for power.
For me the politics-part of WoT is in fact aout the opposite: Democracy (or at least a more egalitarian form of monarcy, because its still fantasy) in the end is the stronger system. It is just sooooo much harder to build and maintain. Rand in the beginning constaltly struggels with his friends and all of tehir inetrests, which are often understandable but really get in his way. And with all of the nations ist basically the same. But the good guy actually do it. They bite their teeth and they bargain. They learn about all these annoying cultures and values, they often heavily disagree with. And this makes their progress much slower, than the Shadow. But once it is built, it is also much stronger.
Don't worry too much about it. I spent years reading untill I finished wheel of time. In between I read all of the cosmere, first law, wittcher and several other series. Its a good series to read a book, put it away, and then pick it back up once you hear it calling for you again
1:31:07 funny enough, I haven't read the wheel of time, I just like the banter between you two. :)
🙏🙏
Oh my god! Okay it’s happening! Everybody stay calm! 😂
STAY F****** CALM!!!
I commend Austins perseverance in getting this far and completely understand him wanting to pull the plug, at least for the foreseeable anyway.
There are too many good books out there and not enough time to read them all to be stuck reading something youre not enjoying.
Thank you - exactly how Im looking at it, hoping to pick up a series ill love soon
I started wheel of time and found you two at the same time. i finished Lord of Chaos for the first time this morning. review wheel of time with me
Too respectful, I wanted to see blood!! Two friends fighting each other till the end to see who survived. But nooo. Austin, you are too nice 😅
Next time we’ll being the boxing gloves lol
Ah, the Shadow Rising. I’d put it smack dab in the middle to slightly above average point in The Wheel of Time. When I read it I had no idea it was almost universally praised as the best book, I had a good time but it wasn’t anything special. The Fires of Heaven and The Lord of Chaos though… THOSE are what REALLY got me into The Wheel of Time and are probably the only reason I actually made it through the slog. And the slog is real Austin, the slog is real. None compare to The Gathering Storm though, that’s the best book in the series.
Btw, when are you guys gonna read The Will of the Many??? I think you guys would really enjoy it. I was OBSESSED with that book.
Richard read that, once I read it we will definitely review!
Austin hurt me today I dont know if I could ever recover from hearing him say he didn't like this book it is my favorite book of all time!
Nooo! Sorry to disappoint - whats your second favorite, maybe we’ll agree there 😁
@@2ToRamble It's Words of Radiance I got into wheel of tie because I heard Sanderson finished it!
@@NolanRichardson-u7s Phew, we are back on track. Stormlight is top tier
The pain I feel is immeasurable😭. Damn you Austin
Im sorry 😭😭 (maybe) 😈
If austin didn't enjoy book 4, he'd HATE book 5. I binged the first five books this year and i'm ready for a break too. I feel what you said about these books killing your reading momentum. Same here. I'll get back to book 6 in 3-4 months.
I'm glad he actually agrees the world-building is great finaly. Sad that he doesn't connect with the characters. I think Jordan was fantastic with characters and even the secondary and tertiary characters had interesting stories and motivations.
I read all of the Wheel of Time and completely agree with Austin here.
🤝
Personally I'd say its a good call to pause/stop if book 4 isnt your cup of tea. Theres 10 more and book 4 is one of my top 3 in the series.
And if your not into the length then I wouldnt recommend it either: I loved it as an audiobook series since I would be doing other things anyway.
HONEY WAKE UP NEW 2TORAMBLE REVIEW!
WOOO
It may just be a generational or environmental thing. I grew up in a small town in the 80’s, a lot of these things are familiar to me. I’ve seen women and men with attitudes like these. Also, with Rand and his women, I’ve always felt like they were the splintered soul of his previous love.
I cant wait to see yall review Gardens of the Moon
So many thoughts and feelings here.
Come on Austin. Did you dislike Words of Radiance and Oathbringer because of the love triangle?
Richard, you should just do reviews alone if he isn't enjoying the series.
It’s not the fact that’s it’s a love triangle, it’s a love triangle written by Robert Jordan, bro cannot write romance
Id agree with bigboy on this and I think from my POV - the message of the Wheel of Time is going for a critical message between men and women working together, with other themes of course, but I see this as a primary driver of the series - the relationship between men and women. While Stormlight is primarily about mental health (multiple personality disorder, redeeming oneself from guilt, suicide/depression) while the love triangle is hardly a drop in the bucket and didnt distract me from the main themes. Whereas in WOT it’s very distracting because it is the main purpose, in my opinion. And if the romance doesn’t connect, the story wont. And I see the romance as very superficial and am not invested. But hey - just my 2 cents
Man, I just finished The Shadow Rising and jumped right into The Fires of Heaven and it starts out pretty strong. Sucks to see I probably wont get to hear your guys thoughts on that, I get it though. I feel like you maybe caught it at the wrong time, like you aren't vibing with the slow burn of the WoT
Definitely could be the case. Maybe in the future theres a time where Ill enjoy it
Actually, I'm not watching this because I like WoT. I'm watching because I like Austin and Richard. 😁
But for the record, I fully agree with Austin on this one.
Finally a book review of a book I’ve read! Lol 😂
Yeah!🎉
... 😂😂😂...
It took me 12 years... the first 10 was books 1 through 5... I almost gave up at book 7... but listened to my cousin and gave it to Winter's Heart... then there was no stopping me... I threw in New Spring just before reading the final book... no regrets... The final battle made it all worth it... but so glad I had some Gwynne and Cahill going on because, The Faithful and The Fallen and The Bound and the Broken was just what I needed to keep me out of a epic fantasy reading funk. Just saying... I think I'm in the middle ground. I understand Austin's struggle... so much. But also appreciate why Richard holds this series in such esteem... but I won't be rereading.
The only thing I’m having issues with listening to this series is how many names rhyme. It makes all the story lines harder to keep track of.
True, there are a lot like that!
I could’ve seen this coming based on earlier reviews, it’s okay not to like the wheel of time! I personally think it’s the best fantasy series ever written but it has some flaws that drive people crazy so I understand.
At the risk of becoming WoT fandom's enemy #1, it is so refreshing to hear someone share my opinions on WoT, Austin! At the end of the day, we don't all like the same cup of tea, but gaddam if it isn't nice to occasionally get some validation for your own perspective. 😂 I am currently in-between books 7 and 8 at the moment. Every now and then something happens that gives me hope, but overall I'm not optimistic about the rest of the series. I think maybe if I had started reading it 15 years ago, I might have found a lot of the things that now seem sort of dated and cliche more tolerable. I feel like it's the sort of series that would leave an impression on you and stick with you if it was your first foray into epic fantasy, but since that's not my experience with it, I'm really struggling to see why it's held in such high regard by so many fantasy fans. To its credit, it does have a fascinating magic system, but unfortunately my opinion of the worldbuilding crumbled a bit after watching Dune (no, I haven't read it yet, sue me). I think the characters are well fleshed-out, consistent, and mostly believable (albeit ridiculous), and we get arguably the most in-depth look into their differing perspectives that I've ever read in any book before. That being said, after a few books the character dynamics start to feel like watching a bad reality TV show on repeat (something that I've never actually done because the thought of it is torturous). I know some people who would find that endlessly entertaining, but for me, it stresses me out, and those little rewards when the characters finally come together in understanding are just not big enough or often enough to make up for it. I had really high hopes for the series when I started it, and in some ways those were met (magic system, -worldbuilding- ), but disappointingly I am not yet a fan.
Glad to validate you here! Definitely in the minority but theres some of us
I'm a few months behind on this read through. It's my first read through of this series ever. (I'm also coming back from an 11 year reading hiatus) I'm enjoying the series. Though after this book I'm gonna take a break. Not a big reader though I'm trying to change that. I feel like an 8 year old learning video games with Dark Souls when I read this series.
Daniel Greene. Do a book by book review with Daniel Greene. From what I’ve seen he’s one of the biggest WOT TH-camrs and he is absolutely in love with the series I’m sure you all would have PLENTY to talk about
I was thinking the same thing! Having Daniel’s chaos mixed with these two would be hilariously entertaining
The Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones, and a dash of Feist were my Teenage years. Fires of Heaven was my favorite but yeah reviewing it straight through us too tall of an ask. Also I love Matt if my profile shot didn’t give that away
Still going through the series but book 4 & 5 is when the wheel of time started to click for me
I see Austin reding it again far from now and actually kinda liking it. Now that's what I would call a slow burn
🤌
Hello from uk 🇬🇧 my first message to you both… liking ur videos a lot!! Just subscribed to ur channel.. happy reading to you both!! 😊
Thanks very much!!
I totaly get why Rand distrusts Moraine. I don‘t think she is a Darkfriend, but I have no doubt that she tries to control him and use him. And of course Rand isn‘t cool with that.
I think Richard could review the rest with Daniel Greene. He used to be one of the biggest Wheel of Time youtubers.
I also stopped reading WoT after book 4 about a year ago. I hated the first book, really liked books 2 and 3 and was meh/middle of the road on 4. I dunno why the series didn’t click with me, because It had everything I love about fantasy. Idk it was pacing or authors voice or what, But someday I really hope to finish them all. It’s just a really daunting task when there are so many and I don’t feel as invested as I do was most books. I commend Austin for getting thru 4 books tho! Tis no easy task
I’m so excited for this one!!! Can’t wait to see Austin finally convert🥳
👀👀
shadow rising is the pinnacle of fantasy literature.
absolutely not! one of the most overrated books i've ever read.
Richard - I'm reading and reviewing one Wheel of Time book a month, just finished The Shadow Rising, would love for you to join my full spoiler discussion series with another booktuber!
My major major issue with wheel of time (it’s a minor inconvenience that irritates me) I just wish I was told who the pov is 😭😂😂
I'm curious what you both think of it. It is quite different from the first three books, Robert Jordan really breaks open the world
This is what I’ve been waiting for 😤
Funny enough, I'm quite enjoying the series reading alongside you guys, but somehow I'm still reading at a slower pace than Austin (just have a couple chapters left now) 😅 By the way, I agree that maybe going forward (if it happens) not using the audiobook could help. I tried it for a bit, and I found my attention kept wandering much more than just reading the book physically.
This is when the modern Fantasy era started back in 92'
really enjoy your dynamic
Thankyou!
Honestly I loved the first five books but Lord of Chaos put me into a reading slump. Wheel of Time is so damn slow it’s infuriating. I may return and complete the series later but at this point reading Wheel of Time has become a chore
Same, i forced myself to read all the way to book 9 cause people kept saying it gets better, but at this point i actively hate half the main characters i doubt i will finish the series
@@Kari-qv1wn why force yourself if you dont enjoy it, i somehow managed to finish it and i almost regret it. there are so many great fantasy books out there and so little time.
Finished book 7 and now halfway through 8. I love Rand too much to quit.
I think I will like the series more when I listen to it on audiobook specifically because I find the prose is so long winded that it drives me into a reading slump but I plan to continue VERY soon (I reached halfway through book 5 before knowing it will send me into a reading slump and I hate those)
Edit: I just started wondering- how different would gay people vs straight people view this series? I’m curious because of what the story wants to tackle between men and women and I imagine people who are gay would view the series differently from someone like me- who is a straight guy.
The reading slumps are the worst! And yea - curious what others would think as well
christmas came early between getting the episode ive been cyberbullying u guys for and the new taylor swift album ON THE SAME DAY :D
Well, I like one of those things lol. But thank you for cyberbullying Austin into submission! Best thing you could have done!
I aways see the Anthony Ryan books behind Richard, I've never heard of them. Do you mind sharing your thoughts on those?
Not sure if they'll see this, but I can give my thoughts. I've only read Blood Song, but it's a fantastic character-driven story told in a frame setting. It follows Vaelin, a young man whose nobleman father drops him off at the doors of the Sixth Order, a religious soldier training camp for young boys to become warriors. You follow Vaelin through his life as he becomes brothers with the boys in his group, unravels mysteries, falls in love, and becomes a servant of the King. Unfortunately, from everything I have heard, the other two books in the Trilogy are god-awful. You get the occasional person who says they're great, but that's the equivalent of saying Dark Souls 2 is your favorite Souls game, or Annette is your favorite Nightwish singer (if you're in either of those niches. If not, just know it's an unpopular opinion.) 2toRamble reviewed The Pariah, and Richard gave it a 6 and Austin gave it a 5. Overall, from everything I know, the concensus is that Blood Song us amazing and everything else is just OK to below average.
Thank you Kal for answering!!! Great thoughts and Richard read the books and thinks more highly of Anthony Ryans other series than the Pariah
@@2ToRamble I'm practicing for when I replace you guys with A.I.
@@KALtheHighstorm117 Thank you!! I think I'll give Anthony Ryan a shot
Yeah I’ve read 1-5 so far, like it a lot, and I’m reading it physically… I don’t think I would like it nearly as much if I was listening to the audiobooks.
55:01 really are you saying Rand has no reason to mistrust ae sedais ? have you read the books up to this point?
Bro is skimming through the story for sure, wouldn't be surprised if it's all audiobooks, but even then, if he was, he wouldn't call Selene "Sylene" either. I don't understand how you can read ~1 million words and comprehend close to none of it 😂
Reading through this series was very strange (I just finished the last book a couple months ago), because I'm generally more of a reader like Austin, but I could see where Richard was coming from while reading this series. Generally when I'm thinking about Wheel of Time, my conclusion winds up being that it is the most important 5.5/10 series out there. It is so obvious how formative the series was to the fantasy genre and the strength it can have in literature, yet it is so dramatically flawed that at times it just straight hurts. For me, the bulk of my issue with Jordan's writing style comes with his pacing and timing. I genuinely think that you could get the entire series, all of its messages, the nuance, and the (intended) emotions, in 7-8 books instead of the 14 (technically 15) that the series wound up being. The best things about the worldbuilding that seems to have caught Richard when he was originally reading it could have still been in there, while still being more efficient and holding on to the attention of readers like Austin and me. Comparing fantasy series can be difficult, but if we think about the worldbuilding of the other big hitters of fantasy (I'm thinking Stormlight, ASOIAF, LOTR) and we think about how they were get their worldbuilding and messages across, with some of the most impressive worlds and themes in the Fantasy genre, and then we think about how long those series are, then I think that the flaw with Jordans writing could be a bit more understandable. When I got to this point in WOT, I was happy that the book finally felt much better to me, but it wound up being more of a "finally we're getting somewhere" than anything else, which felt great at the time, but in hindsight is not the kind of feeling I want to feel again when reading a series. It is strange to read books where the characters are moving forward and are changing, yet rarely feel like they are at the time. This made the series so difficult to read, since because of that the character arcs took forever, which considering how few POV characters there actually are in WOT and how long the series is, I genuinely thought was a major flaw with it. It was just so strange to experience a world so completely made, yet so badly paced as a story, at least for me.
Apology comment for fans of the series coming forthwith.
Great points here - curious what Richard thinks!
Do you guys have a database of ratings and breakdowns for each book you have reviewed?
We dont yet but will once we get a rating site up and running!
Oh that's sad you guys are stopping with the reviews. I just finished TSR and I was intimidated by WOT for years and finally started it this year and it is the best fantasy series/books I have ever read so far. I keep thinking back to moments from dragon reborn and the ending of the great hunt
Finally got the review! You guys gotta work on the prose ratings, they're all over the place
Richard. When I first read the story in the 90s and 00s as a teen and 20 something lad from a literal farm village of 300 people I couldn't stand Nyneave. As a 40 something now she might be my favorite non Mat character. Did you feel anything similar in your reread?
what is the tablet thing Richard has in front of him on the table?
perfect timing I just finished the book 😭😭😭 time to see Austin hate on this amazing piece of fiction
😁😁
I sadly agree with Austin, I can see the story moving forward and I’m sure that if Richard could tell the story it would be better. I’ll finish the series someday cause I need to read the Sanderson climax, but I really feel like the story itself moves forward just because it has to, and it is not organic at all. Even when Rand proclaims himself with the Aiel wise dudes, I didn’t feel any shiver. It was just happening because it had to plot wise. I’m so sad about this cause I was so hyped, it is just not ment for me…
Aw and the flashback chapter in the desert, the most incomprehensible thing I’ve read. I don’t know if it’s fault of the Italian translation.
Lots of love from Tuscany guys, keep going you’re fire ✌️🤩🔥
Thanks for watching! (Especially bc you agree with me 😂) Cheers 🥂
Finally, but Austin is being contrarian at this point 😂
FINALLY AUSTIN I THOUGHT YOU GAVE UP
See, i want something different from everyone else. Let austin read the next book and really review it, go in on what he doesnt like, give it a review kinda like they did with a court of thorns and roses, then have richard react to his pre recorded review. Best of both worlds.
I am like Austin on this one, I don't like the series. BUT I am now on book... 8 maybe? Because I really want to know what the fuss is about ahah So I hope you continue with it eventually!
It took me a little over two years to do the entire series on audible. It was my favorite series until I started ASOIAF..
Too bad game of thrones will never be finished 😅😭
@@theirishman7792 so original!