another problem is that dps characters aren't the only ones affected by powercreep. silver wolf was tauted as a cheat code character in 1.1 due to the weakness implant but even if you ignore that half the dps characters nowadays having weakness implant/ignore baked into their kits, her debuffs simply aren't strong enough to compete with what the current harmony supports bring to the table and she's single target locked on top.
This … Supports being powercrept this quickly too is kinda scary although after Ruan Mei… harmony characters are seemingly having certain niches isn’t bad but… it’s a slippery slope we are already sliding down
A side note too is that players not having any alternatives other than a 5 star currently, we really lack 4 stars in the game and every banner feels like we only pull for 5 stars now, spending our resources just for 5 stars for the players who been playing the game and got all the 4 stars maxed out already.
The only 4 star preservation is march 7th and the only free alternative to Lanceblazer which is always sad. One can only give single target shield and the other gives minimal shield and is easily replaced by their dance alt because they're better support.
I don't look much at leaks, but as far as I know, are there any 4 stars promoted at all in any way for Amphoreus? It looks to me like since almost all the characters are variants of HI3 characters or collab with FGO, there won't be any 4 stars? Even the new characters for 3.0 and 3.1 are just 5 stars (THerta, Aglaea, Tribbie, Mydei)...
@@nabilhusainimohdkamalulabr3088 There is one coming in 3.1 I think, their rate of 4 stars also seems to be stuck at 4 per patch cycle(1.0-1.6 had Yukong, Luka, Xueyi and Hanya, 2.0-2.7 was Misha, Gallagher, Hunt march and Moze)
True, WHERE are the 4 stars? I have a hard time believing that any of the unrevealed Chrsynos (?) Heirs are a 4 star. The last 4 star we got was Moze and the last Preservation unit we got was Aven, alllll the way back in 2.1. XDD
I hate how "pull for you like" has basically become bad advice for star rail. Don't have Robin? Ruan Mei? Aventurine? Huohuo? Sunday? Too fuckin bad, you wont be able to clear MoC without them because the teams that use them are super relevant and almost necessary to clear endgame content.
@Pawel_215 See, that's what I wish I could do as the opposite (someone who generally likes male characters more than female characters.) Personally, I didn't like Sparkle's character at all, but I needed to pull her to make my DHIL competitive. Topaz and Robin was okay, I like them as characters okay-ish, but the reason I pulled them was to support my Dr. Ratio (I pulled his LC), then when Feixiao released as a direct upgrade, I pulled her too, because she was just straight up better in the exact same team (before I had played the quest featuring her/knew anything about her other than her mechanics.) It's great if your faves are meta, but like many others, I find myself spending my jades on characters that make my teams stronger rather than for any lore reason at all.
Pulling for who you like is now choosing your archetype dps. Superbreak has three of them and you're free to choose any as they all perform well, other archetypes will be the same.
Its gonna be hilarious when people like this are gonna start shaming people for pulling firefly feixiao and acheron and then say they invested wrong because they didnt use fu xuan matrix of prescience to see the newest hottest dps that was coming out in 3.6
@@syidibuzzbuzz962 hmm dunno bout others but im fine with it, i played cuz i liked da girls anyway and since when i started playin at firefly banner i only pulled for 2 dps that is firefly and yunli, the rest is support :p and it's going fine for now and imma continue to minmax my 2 teams. Strategies are fun to make \( * ^ *)/
@@silverhawkscape2677 Already got out of ZZZ after HSR. Only Genshin still got me in its claws and even then the powercreep is getting more and more annoying
Getting a unit you like, and then getting told two patches later that its my fault that i didnt know they would suck is isnane to me. Like sorry i wanted a character i liked
If performance was the major reason why you liked a character, then it's difficult to believe you liked that character, and not just the fact that they performed. If this is the mindset, then I think you're doomed to always feel bad about your previous pulls
@@gameplayerone3917I had forgotten to put the rest of my comment in. Like i had it in my head and thought i had written it. Though my point is that, its insane to me that, people will blame others for not knowing that a character they liked would be worse then a character that came out 3 months later. And then by 6 months they are gonna be irrelevant, and have a hard time clearing the content that is made is just frustrating. "Just invest more" Im trying! Its just wired to blame others for liking a character, and then to tell them that "Yeah its your fault that they are bad. I have invested my character with the best gear with 0 off stat roles and mine still does great"
@@FakeStuff5 I really like Silverwolf, but I don't feel that same frustration because I knew what I signed up for. I use her plenty in the overworld and SU, and that's enough for me, and should be enough for other people as well. Even if she was powercrept 3 months later, she was still viable enough in those 3 months to earn back what I spent on her.
Oh my god, you don't have to always have the best units in the game, saying a character "sucks" after 2 patches is so laughably hyperbolic, please tell me one character who SUCKED after 2 patches.
I think one of the issues here is 2 characters per patch. We are drowning in the new characters so we don't have enough time to save for the characters we like because the ones we like and are saving for get rerun with their new best supports, causing you to either get the characters you like or having to get a new character and skipping their rerun for Eidolons. We get way too many characters way too quickly to have time to save for the characters we want.
Especially bad when they only give us the pulls to get to a single 50/50 per patch. "Just save up and pull strategically" is not actually that helpful of advice when sometimes your luck is just THAT cooked. Sometimes the game just hates you and takes you to hard pity with lost 50/50s for multiple banners.
agreed! I really want a couple patches scattered here and there where they don't release new 5 star characters in order to give players a breather and let older characters have reruns. additionally, the amount of 5 star characters greatly outweigh the number of 4 stars, and that fact just does not sit right with me
Mr.Pokke, the guy who earns his living and gacha pulls from viewers(players) has the audacity to call other players greedy when voicing concerns about powercreep. This guy's ego is just... Unfortunately his mindset is also the type of mindset Hoyo would listen to consider it's also the one that they wanted from the first place.
What? All he said is that if your account is at a point where it cannot clear endgame is probably because you pulled for random units or because you were greedy and ran out of pulls so you couldn't pull for important units like Robin that will help you clear.
this is why I never trust HSR CC in general. I take their advice and guide with a grain of salt. If I found the powercreep to be too much I would just quit. The problem with gatcha games in general if you want significant change people need to stop playing altogether but its impossible because the game practices predeatory gambling tactics. I watched a couple of Mr. Pokke video and I feel he is nothing more than a whale shill.
I don't play Reverse1999, but I just saw how they introduced a system called 'Euphoria' that massively buffs older characters to the point some of them are even stronger than the current meta ones. No supports required, no extra investment on pulls, just a few easily farmable resources to unlock the upgrades. No creating the problem and selling the solution. As I've seen a lot of people comment, let's stop blaming predatory practices on the consumers.
@@UltimateRed-bj7mo I've been playing it since day one. To put it bluntly, when I play Reverse 1999 I feel like I'm playing a game. When I play HSR, or any other Hoyo game for that matter, I feel like I'm playing a psy-op.
Plus the game spices up game play with the first unit to act will be stunned in some stages. Some end game is just see how long you can survive. Low rarity units have use like taunting Fool and aliEnT, Leilani is like Tingyun
that wouldn't solve much . if said boss is only able to clear with specific style , you'll still have to invest and pull more character for specific boss , which might be worse than now .
@@Koyuki_Yukihime It's not like that, take genshin as a example: X boss has disvantage against nightsoul But this doesn't mean you need characters with nightsoul to beat him, in genshin is balanced to the point of even a weaker character can clear the stage with a good time Unlike star rail that literally bring stronger characters then make the bosses even stronger to the point of older characters have to grind their a** to do a smoth 5 cycle , and then they create supports for that fit that new powerfull character to sell more and MAKE THE BOSSES EVEN STRONGER like wth
@@Koyuki_Yukihime pulling diversity isn't a bad thing that's what gachas are all about collection. Plus it would make older characters relevant again. They could do that by simply introducing faction buffs. Like when characters of the same faction are in a team they get buffed or bosses weak to said factions/paths.
They've been there, done that and been maligned for it though. DoT is the perfect example, PF and MoC during its heyday were difficult for anyone who was lacking Swan or Kafka and a genuine beating for most who lacked both. In retrospect I retain my position that it wasn't too hard since you could brute force with hyper-carry teams (which anyone who didn't board the DoT express at the time should have excelled at given it was the only other prominent archetype around) and gotten by with the 4* DoT representatives if you had meaningfully invested into them previously even though the fewest myself included had. Reception would be even worse these days, if they dropped a PF rotation that was this skewed towards DoT these days then the players who moaned about it during 2.0-2.1 era would be faced with the same issue and also be accompanied by a swath of new players that arguably NEVER had any incentive to roll for Kafka or Swan over stronger units they ran next to, i.e Robin. It's too polarising to be a one size fits all solution and just replaces one problem with another.
Very well said. A lot of the arguments that Pokke makes as counters to why powercreep isn’t a problem seem to exist in a vacuum where extenuating factors are conveniently ignored. Blaming players for the game’s highly predatory practices is not it.
Plus, let's keep in mind that Mr. Pokke isn't relatable to the Majority of the HSR player base. He gets access to things most of us will never. Spending on what he wants is a non issue
He never even said powercreep isn't a problem lmao, you heard him talk about all of this for over an hour, left multiple comments on it and you still don't even understand what he said. This is ridiculous.
@@sct77 Bruh. His original post literally translates to “powercreep isn’t a problem unless…” That is literally saying powercreep isn’t a problem and putting the responsibility entirely on the player, calling them stupid and greedy if they feel like powercreep is a problem. I’m not sure what your interpretation of his point is then. I wanted to engage with your comments but decided it wasn’t worth it since there are better uses of my time. But if you understand his point so well, enlighten me please. You can’t just keep saying people don’t “understand” everytime the argument faces pushback.
@@Glast04 He said powercreep is bad but only turns into a problem (problem in this context means not being able to clear endgame) if you mismanage your account. Is that simple. It's just basic reading comprehension but everyone is too emotional about powercreep to think straight.
@@sct77 Ok. Firstly. "Mismanaging your account" is an entirely different evaluation than "Greedy and stupid", as he said in his post, and doubled down on multiple times in the 1 hr 30 min video. Secondly, no, powercreep does not "only turn into a problem" if you mismanage your account. It is the context in which the powercreep exists that dictates whether or not it is a "problem". Powercreep exists whether you "mismanage your account" or not, and you are forced to reckon with the reality of powercreep whether you "mismanage your account" or not. You are just conveniently interpreting Pokke's wording in a way that paints his argument in the best light and justifies your defense of it. By definition, "problem" means, "a matter or situation regarded as unwelcome or harmful and needing to be dealt with and overcome." The reality is that Pokke did not identify what he meant by "problem" in this context, so the phrase "powercreep problem" is left to the interpretation of each reader. Whether or not Pokke intended for the "problem" to mean "an inability to clear endgame content", is known by him alone, and frankly doesn't matter. We can only discuss what has been stated, not assume what he means. And going by what has been stated, Pokke is wrong in the statement he shared in his post, and has reiterated in his video.
I completely agree. The "just don't give up on your DPS and team comp and continue investing!" argument irritates me so much. Cause you can only invest so much. I have been playing DHIL since his first banner, cause I was absolutely in love in his character and his lore. I got his signature LC, then I built Tingyun and Hanya for him. I got FX for more crit rate in his team. I got Ruan Mei on her first banner not cause of break characters or DOT comps, but for DHIL. Later I pulled for Aventurine, mostly for DHIL teams as well. Then I pulled for Sparkle with her signature only for my DHIL team. You can say, I could've also pulled for constellations for DHIL, but at this point, I think there's no use. He got powercreeped by Acheron and later by Rappa for imaginary-weak enemies. Now, E4 DHIL with the best supports is as useful as an usual E0 Rappa team. And even his BIS, Sparkle, was powercreeped by Sunday. What I'm supposed to do? To pull for E6 DHIL, only for him got powercreeped even at E6? I know, it's not always correct to compare HSR with Genshin, but in this case, it's not "Genshin could never" - it's "HSR could never". I played Genshin for freaking four years and I got 36* in abyss with Childe National. All of those characters are 4 years old. They were released in 1.x, and they are still more than effective in end-game content. Top-tier supports, such as Bennett, Nahida, Raiden, Furina, Kazuha and etc. are not powercreeped and very effective even with the newest characters. At the same time, DHIL and Jinglu were released only one year ago, and they're already powercreeped. And supports like Sparkle too. How you suppose to pull for characters, DPS or supports, if by the time you built their team and pulled for their BIS, they're already not viable? I hate to see HSR going in this direction, and I'm not hopeful about the future. I'm sure as hell, that the brand new Rememberence teams will be powercreeped in the next years, and Acheron and Firefly will be relics of the past. I hope I'm wrong.
I agree SO MUCH with you my fella. This may be a hot take but, even if Genshin gives out less free pulls than Star Rail, long-term I find Genshin to be overall better? Because like you said, in Genshin characters from 4 years ago still clear content meanwhile Blade, DHIL and Jingliu from only 1 year ago even with their best supports are already powercrept :(
As a DHIL lover, this hit hard. Seeing this MOC I assumed he will just obliterate everything in second half, especially since I pulled E1 sparkle for him together with a Sunday and Fu Xuan. Guess what? 200k attack at most with 30 buffs on him. 9 cycles to clear. What the fuck hoyo?
@tipithedhedhistar4132 since Rappa was released, no. I tried his usual teams with Sparkle, I tried with my Sunday with signature LC and Sparkle, and never got 3*. 6 months ago, he was closing this content easily.
Saying that all of a sudden the right thing to do all along was to hyper invest is so dishonest. When the game started out there was a pretty clear notion that you will want to match the weakness type of the enemies which means your goal is to eventually have a roster that covers most if not all of the weakness types. You get Jingliu to have an answer to content weak to ice, DHIL for imaginary etc. because they only really perform as expected when the enemies are weak to their element and don't have higher resistance. This was good because it meant there is room to sell a large number of characters without directly powercreeping, everyone would just get their time to shine. Nobody could have predicted that hoyo would throw all this out of the window and start releasing Character after character that either ignores the weakness types or implants their own while also making them do so much damage that they make having Jingliu, DHIL and others completely redundant as they outperform them even in their best scenario. That just feels like shit and having to pull dupes or light ones just to clear in 10 cycles while the new shiny unit does it twice as fast at e0s0 also feels like shit.
Actually insane that the one unique mechanic they had(weaknesses) was just scrapped in the name of shilling a few characters. Maybe they've learned bc THerta doesn't have it, but she also does so much damage I don't think it matters anyway lol
LITERALLY. While collecting Kafka, Ratio, DHIL, BS, Seele, I always did it because Genshin heavily emphassised having a DPS for every element. Who would've thought that in less than a year, 5 units would not give a sh about weakness types? They could've just kept making a single target-blast-aoe DPS for every single element and we would've been happy, instead of pulling characters in spite of the powercreep.
@@fl2ur It wasn't completely scrapped, female players who prefer the guys still have to deal with it just like in 1.0. The only guy with weakness implant is Boothill and his is worse than Silver Wolf's. We still use Dhil and Jing Yuan and Ratio. Nothing changed.
blade is my favorite character, he's the only 5 stars that i pulled for his lightcone, i'm an f2p who lives by the genshin mindset who thought that the 4 star options are as good as the 5 stars, so when i pull for a lightcone it's out of love, it broke my heart to see him become absolutely usless overtime, no matter what i did he can never be as good as my firefly or feixiao, when i pulled acheron in her rerun i was so happy because i liked her playstyle so much, only to realize that it hasn't been a year since her release since she was dethroned from best in slot, i literally pulled for sunday and fugue not out of love, but because i thought ''oh, they'll let me clear the endgame content quicker'' and that's sad to say the least, i miss back when i could've used blade as a full on dps, and not a secondary dmg ouput if i have an empty slot, and now with the game's 8 banners mindset, and having very good units that'll make significant downgrade if i don't have them, combined with the fact that i'm f2p, i started to believe that this game is for pay to wins at least
Blade is actually still viable but he needs alot of investment plus most of blade main has it wrong you need Blade E1 with secret vow not his LC. My E1 Blade E1S1 Ruanmei E2 Bronya and E1 Huohuo is still able to do 3,4 cycles MOC12 when enemy is weak to wind(except for the new wolf that thing takes me 8 cycles💀) but yea playing him and older units feels terible even if i could clear the content.
Thank you so much for making this video. It's not greedy to want your favorites. That Mr Pokke be like "how dare you pull for the characters you like?"
That is literally the exact opposite argument he made in the 1v4 debate on livestream today. Pull your favorite character. Make sure if you want that favorite character to 3-star clear endgame content pull based on said characters needs. If you want to pull for the sake of pulling or because waifu or husbando and are incapable of clearing endgame as a result. And this is assuming you even care about endgame in the first place since only 8 - 10 % of the player base play MOC12 anyway. And casuals who do not grind the hell out of game to get the max amount of pulls per patch, nor do they care about endgame. Then you as a player made your personal choice on what matters to your individual game experience of HSR. Also remember every new character will be meta, as the most significant thing to performance of a new character is Turbulence Buffs which multiply the rate up characters performance by a factor of 2X - 3X.
While its true that Pokke's delivery was a bit harsh to an extent, but that's not his point. You are free to pull whoever you like whenever you like, however, don't expect them to perform at the same caliber as the new shiny things. It just boils down to a personal decision to stick with your favorites or optimizing your pulls in order to stomp the endgame. And being a gacha game, that power creep is basically inevitable. The way things are developing, Hoyo is basically telling us you can't have both. You either sacrifice your favorite or go all in on them for the extra 100-300 jades. And frankly, its their nature as a company to do sh* like this. It's not unexpected, its just happening at a faster rate because of the 2 new units per patch, and those who have attachments to the characters will ultimately feel frustrated because of the power spikes not only cuz their mains can't clear, but cuz the newer ones do better. That's fair, I've certainly felt that seeing Jing Yuan being outperformed by everyone. (he's still inferior to other DPSS even with churchguy) But what can I do lol? I can't expect every character to be able to ABSOLUTELY DOMINATE every single patch. Especially with all the newer gimmicks and sh*. The new will always be more busted than the old, most especially for DPSs. It's not greedy to want your favorites, what's greedy is expecting said favorite to be META and always be META. (Sorry for this, I agree that the powercreep thing is getting overkill. But it's also true that it is possible to work around it as F2P, albeit at a steep price of abandoning your favorite or vertical investment around their achetype. I understand that this not for everyone, which is why I said it is a decision. PF,MoC12,ApoC are optional, though it is a shame that they're turning into some kind of paywall.)
I agree. DHIL is is fave I got his E2 with lightcone and all his best supporters with their lightcones and he still struggles with the content. And now The Herta is releasing and Dan's E2 is in her base kit.. Makes me sad.
I think Hoyo was used to higher profits. Powercreep is a short term strategy to bring profit but in long way it repulses the players. Regarding HSR I still remember Zajef prediction - its turn based game with 4 chars in 1 year there will be severe powerceep. Main reason is that they can sell you new chars based only in numbers and there is practically no skill expression.
which is kinda crazy to me, i would argue genshins slow powercreep is one of the reasons the game did so well, there is a reason hu tao, a 1.x character, is not on the upcoming chronical wish. she is a character that aged really well trought the years despite being twice powercreeped and is very popular, she is still worth the solo rerun banner for hoyo. Meanwhile Acheron, this games raiden mei, had nowhere near the sales her rerun was expected to get. its already acepted you dont bother with dps reruns in hsr. feixiaos rerun is imo a big bait because content has been shifting to favor aoe, i dont think she will do well during early 3.x at the very least
@@bea7038 I never played Genshin myself, but I've heard plenty about its slow power creep. So when I started playing HSR back in 1.0, I had hoped for something similar. I guess I was wrong. I feel very much disillusioned these days. :/
@@venn2001adsome of genshin's slow power creep was definitely a mistake from over or under tuning characters (all the 1.0 4 stars that still see heavy use) but because elemental reactions actually matter you can actually make a ton of teams and characters work, with only a few characters having a niche only they fill (nilou bloom, xianyun plunge, etc.) And 5* weapons aren't nearly as good as starrail light cones, plus weapons are just generally more universal and just feel less necessary to pull for, so your pulls can all go for characters.
@@venn2001ad I still clear endgame using Keqing Kazuha Fischl and Yaoyao, not only that but the 1.X 4 stars are better than actual five stars.(we are in 5.3 now).
The biggest problem is that the meta shifting way too fast and older unit can’t have a way to keep up. Like superbreak meta, older dps units aren’t gonna keep up with someone like Firefly or Rappa. Or SW who was the only one has the ability to implant weakness even though RNG based on the variety of elements. Now everyone can either ignore weakness or implant it themselves.
At this point i don't want to further augment the discussion because i think what needs to be said has already been said. I just want to leave my thanks to you and all the other creators for voicing our concerns. We are all here striving for a better game experience for everyone and hopefully, we'll see those changes in a near future. Thanks again, peace
These gacha games really need sidegrades. You can slow down powercreep by giving alternative teammates in each slot that only have a marginal impact on performance. This way we get more variety too. Pretty much all the time you hear people asking "do I really need x teammate who I don't like to play my favourite character?" The answer is pretty much always "yes", unless you're ok with the performance of the team dropping drastically. There's honestly so little variety between people's accounts, it's like we're all playing one of a handful of preset accounts with no personality whatsoever.
@xenoemblem7 That's not a gacha game issue, hell it's not even a Hoyo issue. I play ZZZ, while we have powercreep but it doesn't matter because you can clear endgame with 4 stars
@@maughtayo but zzz also has the skill player ceiling to bypass Hsr, u cant dodge etc so the kkey is to have the correct units instead of strategizing w the already available options
@@xenoemblem7 this is not a gacha game problem, but hsr problem in particular. hsr wants synergy between each member of the team and those synergies are formed only by small amount of combinations. you don't have choice in team building
I'm tired of Pokke running his mouth, the dude doesnt even play his HSR account on the daily. Only actually plays it for 0 cycle MOC nonsense. His account managers and his chat funds everything else for him. fl2ur you hit all the points I resonant with man.
Literally every video: "1 sub for ___" "5 subs for ___" "10 subs for ___" Dude begs for subs every video to make certain decisions. Like his recent Herta run in MoC. "1 sub and I'll save Mem." That's crazy
Biggest gripe about HSR since 2.X is how its a team based game but there is a "fixed team" for every archtype. Since 2.X their design philosphy changed. Every new unit perfectly fit the missing piece of the parcel and alternatives are a significant downgrade. Hence 1.X unit just falls so hard compared to their 2.X counterpart as they're just in a awkward place. One of my favourite things about JRPGs like Trails (which inspired hsr) is the teambuilding aspect where we can be creative with our team and builds and everyone gaming experience is different. But its just so shallow in HSR since 2.X because I no longer have options. All the old units are a serious step down and the HP inflation makes them fustrating to use. It's aritifical difficulty and lazy design at best. "Skill expression" in HSR albeit minimal is largely in its teambuilding which is slowly being taken away. Most players end up running similar "flavour of the month" team which hoyo wants to promote. This makes it so boring especially since our gameplay options in battle are already very limited. All can be fixed if they just buff old units which is not unfair to ask given how expensive gacha is in this game. Not even 2 years in and majority of the cast are barely passable. It's one thing if its a 1.X unique thing where we can say sure game was new, Hoyo didn't know how to design character kits. Moving forward, 3.X characters scaling will be similar to 2.X surely. But reality is, Hoyo has no plans to pull the brake but accelerate the powercreep. Just look at THerta kit and especially the eidolon creep (E2). Her kit is so overloaded with such bs multipliers its laughable how she blows every other dps out of the water. It really seems like an overreaction but its not to anyone that has done calcs with her. She is that insane and almost feels like bad joke. Soon content will be adjusted to fit this new tier of dps with older units suffering the brunt of it. The cycle repeats. As a day 1 player, its just so disappointing to see how HSR decided to go about developing the game. I loved this game but starting to feel really disillusioned. Sorry for the yap guys :(
This is the big thing. I think all this war and drama has deflected from the real problem. The game is becoming less fun. It feels like a numbers and character check rather than a strategy and team building check. And like you were saying, it feels like we have fixed teams so there’s not much strategy to have fun with
@@itsdakingofkings2550 Yup 100%. People always argue in HSR, each characters only have 3 actions (Basic/Skill/Ult), game is for babies no strategy but its not true at all. Majority of "skills" lies in preparing your team. The battle itself is just executing what you planned. Old units had drawback which made them interesting. Yukong low buff uptime, Dhil drains SP etc. You can mix and match your units. My earliest 0 cycles were using Yukong, Jing Liu and Seele where tuning for each MoC was unique and you could use different supports for the same dps. You were rewarded for thinking instead of just being sold the solution. It is teamcomp cherrypicking, but now compared it to running FF, HMC, Ruanmei and 1 sustain. The difference between you and others running similar team/autoplay is minimal. Difference largely depends on how much you wanna spend on their BiS team and eidolon. Play other units and the game penalise you with HP inflation. People will then tell you "skill issue, that's not how your meant to play the game, you need to run x unit with y or your bricked." Its ironic certain creators say this as any semblance of skills have become tied to whether you can pull x unit. Yes its a gacha game, but it shows why having teambuilding options is so important. Powercreep is a serious issue in a game like HSR and exacerbate the flaws in its combat system.
@@itsdakingofkings2550 You are right. I cleared this MOC with 5 E0S0, 1 E0S1 and HMC (6 cycles). But I am truly not having fun at all. I cleared it simply because i have the best tools available currently, not because I’m smart or my builds are OP 😢
Heavy on that. Robin fitting FUA teams more than other teams because of her extra trace or whatever, while still being regarded as a "massive ATK boosting harmony that can fit everywhere" (true, still) is crazy. Same with Aventurine's blind bet stacking being increased by FUAs. Same with Acheron benefitting from Debuffers. Same with Jiaoqiu amping ultimates and AOE debuffing (literally inclining more towards a character he's never met in lore rather than his own general lmao) to the point he's seen as a weird choice in Feixiao teams and a staple in Acheron teams. Same with Feixiao benefitting more from FUA teams due FUA characters being the ones that charge her ultimate the fastest.....They're literally made from each other. Back in 1.X, Bronya was for main DPSes with Crit, and ASTA for anything else. God help the future version 3.X to have versatile characters but not so braindead overpowered characters like Aventurine and Ruan Mei, or Feixiao Moze Acheron with 30 thousand dmg increases in their kit.
3:40, this is the same argument for all those Topaz mains that are smug because they pulled in 1.4 with "we knew all along". No, you didn't, its Hoyo that shilled for FuA and Superbreak for most of 2.X and it still took 194 for Topaz to have a full dedicated Follow up team.
Basically that, because you can't say the same with Silverwolf and Sparkle. Both of them also looked like they had a future archetype in mono quantum and other characters they'll work with, but those never came. Silverwolf was Acheron cope option till Jiaoqiu eviscerated her and Sparkle helps DHIL, E2+ Acheron and Seele I guess but Robin or Sunday do that better, and Robin was released like 2 patches after Sparkle.
I fell on my ass when I've heared the argument of "oh if you played since launch you'd have 2 guaranteed functioning teams even as a f2p by now". Yeah, you know what those teams would be? Spoiler alert: not the teams that are now meta. We had no idea what will become of the game when we pulled Silver Wolf only for her to die in an agonizing death when the dev team was like "You know what? F@ck it, let's give every new DPS a weakness ignore". We had no idea what will happen if we pull for Blade and not get any supports for him for years. We didn't know Jingyuan will only become bearable when Sunday comes out 2 years later. How were we supposed to "invest smarter"? ESPECIALLY when CCs hype up every single unit in the game. And WE are not greedy for that. We SPENT on these f@cking units, I think we earned the right to be a little f@cking entitled when these units are starting to age very badly.
Yup it’s not guaranteed that your two functioning teams would be the best choice. And let’s say for example someone had divine foreign and picked up E0 S1 Seele and Jingyuan, with Fu Xuan Huo huo at e0 and Robin e2 S1 Sunday e1 S1 and Ruan mei E2 S1 you are now stuck playing two teams for eternity which defeats the purpose of these games which is to collect and play with characters you like
Pulling units in 1.x made me realize just how bad the investment value is in hsr so for 2.x up the only dps I got was E0 S1 Acheron because I didn't wanna repeat my mistakes I made in 1.x and I'm still paranoid to pull in 3.0 so I'm just gonna save up everything for Castorice whenever she drops and whatever support comes my way
well as a day 1 player my teams are Seele team - Seele, Fuxuan, Sparkle, Robin Kafka+BS - Kafka, BS, Ruan Mei + Flex got f-ed in the FUA meta - My only FUA team Himeko+Herta for the points thing Acheron team - Acheron, Kafka/BS, Support+flex Got f-ed in the Break meta - My only break team right now is Himeko + Fugue + mc+ Ruan Yunli team - Still building, but is something like Yunli, Fuxuan, Sparkle/Bronya + Flex lost the 50/50 of Aventurine (both) Sunday Rappa TopAss...¬¬ everything else skipped or didn't have enough to roll The thing is that i rolled for those characters because i like them, when alot of them launched like Kafka she was incredible but felt balanced she made DoT work, Seele felt like what i expected from Hunt, i spend alot of time farming got some of their LCs and supports, but right now feels like it doesn't matter like Hoyo just want that all players to have the same sh*t, because new enemy just can be defeated with X character if you don't have it bad luck, meanwhile they create supports that are worth 3 characters and DPS that have huge %atk and weakness implant making bigger and bigger dps checks...
I can easily clear all contents on Auto full stars as a day 1 F2P Doesn't mean the powercreep in this game is not a problem, honestly might quit the game soon if it keeps getting more and more ridiculous, on top of heavy decline on the main stories.
@@ryzhik9608 “how were we supposed to invest smarter” To maximize the AVERAGE. Yeah JY is the unforeseen excellent investment, but the problem is HOW MANY of such outliers? (Spoiler: just him lol) Investment plays with the average, not outliers
Pokke does not offer a solution, he offers a way to cope and calls everyone who says they don't like it greedy. Does it work? Yes. Is it enjoyable? To some people, yeah, but as you can see, most find it absurd. It is a very detached (unrelatable, if you will) take that completely ignores human psychology. This is a game, and the fact that this is even discussed is depressing. Imagine a new player, coming from yet another HSR ad on youtube that promotes blade (yep, they still do those a lot), only to find out, that if he wants the unit he downloaded the game for to compete, he needs to spend like 3 times more then if he were to use any other new unit. For oldies who already have him. Right, okay, you can manage that for sure, but for newcomers it's asking way too much. It's not some poor lad's fault he wasn't around when blade got released, he should be able to get him and play with him even now (without getting him, signature, a couple of limited supports and eidolons). Is he stupid or greedy for liking an old character? His cope does work, it's just that it is NOT a solution and there are still holes in this strategy And for instance, if you are yet another idiot who says "it's a gacha game bro what did you expect", there are somehow gacha games, where you can clear ALL content with on-release units, without getting them e6s5 bullshittery (absolutely base units, not copies at all) like arknights. Gacha does not mean bad, gacha is just a way of monetization. Hoyo is the biggest company, if anything, they of all must be held to higher standards.
This is fundamentally a mindset problem. No matter how dressed up it is, it's ultimately gambling. The fun comes from the gambling, not winning, everyone knows you don't win. The solution is to change your mindset, it's as simple as that.
@@vnmememan8657 You do 'win' at gambling too, but you ultimately always lose. Same concept, different skin, and it's one of the main reasons why it's so addictive in the first place, and why you need to have the proper mindset going in to avoid catastrophe.
you can only cope though, you are playing a gacha game regardless. even if the power creep was happening slower, that doesn't change the fact that older units get less viable and need more investment to work. take genshin, the game people say has had little to no power creep until recently... that's a flat out lie. like yeah you can use diluc and easily clear the current content, just as easy or even easier then you could back in 1.0... but his supporting team is literally 100% different, even his best in slot weapon has changed. sure it was slower, but you literally need very highly specific 5 star limited characters, and in a game where they give out less then half the pulls star rail gives out per patch. in my mind, its literally the exact same issue, its just happening in a different time frame, and causes as many issues for players, and a lot of the same issues, but its just spread out over a longer time so you don't notice... boiling the frog so to speak.
@@xXzman9000Xx if you cope, you admit that and not force it down everyone's throats as if you are him for saying, what ultimately is, not that hard to grasp
Im gonna say it Defense Reduction/Shred/Ignore should have been an Exclusive debuff for Nihility characters only The fact harmony characters have these is ridiculously OP for no reason at all since they also have the significancalty stronger playstyle of Ally buffing rather then Enemy debuffing and the better Lightcones Blackswan e1 and JQ are good steps in the right direction but they STILL lose out because they are fully tied down to their niche
When I rejoined in 1.5 the common sentiment from nearly everyone was that the game was super F2P friendly and as long as you had Bronya, Tingyun, or Silver you could brute force with any dps in the game hell I used Hook to get alot of scuffed MOC clears. That is no longer the case now you need a team comp and you team comp has to be next to perfect or you are doomed. I have been smart with my pulls I was F2P for a long time I hard saved for Adventurine, Topaz, Robin even got Topaz LC. So when I finally got Feixiao I felt like all my hard work and saving had finally payed off. But the most recent MoC has put doubt in my mind and the reality that all that hard work will not last long. I had envisioned a fantasy that now that I had my broken comp I could just pull purely for fun hell I even started spending recently because I thought I could get away with some dumb pulls and investing in For Fun stuff. I imagine alot of other people feel that way too. And the thing that really sucks is from a gameplay perspective its only harder because they just jacked up HP pool, I could excuse Hoolay he is a boss certain thinks work really well again like counters and you could exploit that with Aventurine, Clara, or Yunli . But a 2mil HP Svarog??? he doesn't have any beneficial gameplay mechanics in fact every part of his kit makes it harder for your team to function so when a boss like that shows up with an elite with a million hp as well it just sucks because the content is just harder for the sake of making my characters worse and less fun. And if my character just end up less fun at some point I have to ask myself why I am still here and I currently can not recommend anyone to pick up HSR because I don't want them to experience this level of disappointment and anxiety of having to be perfect with your pull and even when you are perfect you can never just take it easy.
Yeah the power creep has been speeding up. Power creep is normal but the rate that it’s increasing at is getting worse and I fear for what 3.x will bring
Current endgame sucks for single target dps (has been sucking for a while now because the hard shilling for the shiny new erudition units), but also I wanted to pull for Feixiao on rerun because I already have her bis team ready and now... I kinda feel forced to just wait for the new and shiny dps they're gonna shill hard in the future. At this point pulling at reruns is just a joke, they might as well not bother
I was surprised when my E0S1 Feixiao, E1 Robin, Aventurine, E6 Moze took 5 cycles in the 1st phase. How are people who didn't spend money supposed to clear? Thankfully my E2S1 IL slapped with E0S1 Sunday but it made me realize this game is not for f2p anymore. I uninstalled anyways because i lose all 50/50s.
"Upgrading" your team doesn't even feel like an upgrade. Its more like taking them back to where they were pre HP inflation. Thats another reason why the powercreep feels so bad. Its not about getting improvements its about playing catch up
i guess i'll share my own experience as well. i started playing in 1.0 and my favorite character is blade. i pour THOUSANDS of fuels into his build, pulled his light cone, got his e1 and e6 on rerun, bronya, sparkle e2s1, ruan mei e1, luocha... i really did everything i could to keep him up to par with the current meta at the time. and then i pulled acheron and her lc.. i did a run of her on moc 12 and had forgotten to level up her lc, i cleared in two cycles whilst my blade did in five. over the summer i started playing less and less, and i'm happy to say i'm honkai free now! good luck to those still playing and hope you survive :')
fellow Blade fan here (second fave after JY), it took me so long to build him due to being unlucky with relics that by the time I was done he wasn't even meta anymore. I had Luocha, I had Bronya, he was basically doing nothing. Also honkai free now and I've never felt better lol
No way that with a well built e6 you are clearing slower than with an e0s1 Acheron. I got e6 Kafka (the rest of the team is e1 at most) and she still clears way faster than Acheron or Feixiao even on the MoCs designed for them (now they are starting to clear slower than before, 1 cycle instead of 0). I doubt that there's that big a difference between e6 Kafka and e6 Blade, 5 more cycles is a lot, 5 cycles is what it took me with e6s2 Kafka and e1s1 Huohuo (no one else) to clear a MoC 12 9 months ago
@thomasdean8047 earlier today I did current MoC first half in 4 cycles with super break e3 Himeko with a 4* LC (e0s1 Fugue, e1s1 Ruan Mei and Gallagher). So either original comment has got a big skill issue or e3 Himeko is significantly better than e6 Blade
Pokke calling people greedy when he has lost so much quality and humility from when he first started is honestly at best hypocrisy and at worst complete delusion. This just proves that if you hang around the wrong group they drag you down, the drama farmer CCs genuinely changed how he does content because the CC of the gacha space honestly sucks. But Pokke accepted being lesser just for his own growth and he has the audacity to call his audience greedy, who accepted the worse quality drama BS just because they thought he was entertaining. Then he has a ego trip because he thinks he’s “intellectually superior” to those who don’t spend their life planning around a stupid game that has predatory practice and also victim blames people who fell to gambling addiction… it’s honestly insane the lack of self awareness I’m not giving CCs ANY a benefit of the doubt, they are their audience at best, saying off the wall BS when you have the control over so many people then back peddling like he doesn’t is genuinely insanity and lack of accountability that is shown by one other CC we all know who it is… that dude never shuts up about worthless drama because he is nothing without and seeing other CCs become more like shows how bad the CCs in this space are. What’s even the point of discussing any topic in this community when it’s guided by people like that?
The problem with that guy (the one that said greed and stupidity) is he live with ability to pull every single character and their copies DAY 1. For example ,he pulled E2 DHIL and now E2 Robin on the first day or release. Worse take from the guy who never understand how powercreep affecting f2p. We slowly getting to the point of E1 or S1 is mandatory or else you will struggle. HSR player count will surely drop this year.
@@Liauw2806they're likely talking about the fate/stay night collab, which as far as i'm aware, will feature Saber (Artoria) and Archer (Emiya) as their two new shiny dps. And that (unfortunately) will get people to spend the big bucks
Ngl when i was listenting to pokke his entire point of "invesment into a core achetype" completely falls apart if we look at dot U pull kafka and her LC, shes the dot unit U pull hou hou, good atk buff and energy is nice U pull ruan mei and her lightcone, a very good DOT buffer U pull black swan and her LC, a char that brings dot to meta Then u pull robin and her LC, atk support that can subsititue ruan mei U did every single thing RIGHT and invested in that team......and oh look its taking that team 7 cycles to clear
My dot without any lcs and bs clears this moc in 7 cycles... And I havent touched their relics in months. If you have all these lcs and chars it wont take you that long. This is a bad argument.
@@blues6304 DOT deserved to have a support ages ago instead of the archetype being left to rot for an actual year. Are they really supposed to be grateful for crumbs of leaks for a unit that might come in the middle of version 3?
I think a thing that really should be highlighted the most is the speed of these things getting cycled out. You can mitigate it with proper planning sure but you wont always win a 50/50 and if you lose one on a support for a character you like it feels even worse when that character struggles super hard. If you lost the 50/50 on Jiaoqiu as an Acheron owner it feels miserable as the character has fallen off hard without him.
I feel this in my soul, because by the time I finish building a character they've already been powercreeped. Like I enjoyed them for maybe ONE patch 😭 and then I'm struggling to clear content again...
it is insanely unrealistic to ask someone to spend all their jades on 2 teams with their best in slot support and investing in them, because the point of the game is to collect characters that you find fun and interesting, and being if all you do is focusing on investing in supports for a character like seele, then you end up not focusing on you seele, but on your e2 supports. Also, it is not a players fault for wanting to play the characters that they like. It isn't greedy at all, because the point of the game is to play your favorite characters. And it isn't like you can know exactly what is going to happen in the future either: like how is it the player's fault if we had no idea that acheron was 2 times as strong as Jingliu because no leaks came out on her until 2.0, and because we had no idea who was even going to be next. Calling players bad and greedy for wanting to play their favorite characters is insane, and because their is little to no way that we can "play smarter other than get good luck on our relic rolls and actual enemy attacks. I have been playing for over a year, and I have great artifacts on all of my characters, and i can still barely clear with my favorite teams. It isnt like zenless or wuwa where we can learn perfect rotations and combos to increase our damage by 3x. And speed tuning isn't the players problem either. Speed tuning is entirely luck dependent, because of relic rng.
saw a comment saying that mr pokke is taking the tectone route where every type of drama is good for him and kinda have to agree with all the recent shenanigans he's been in and it's such a big disconnect between him and an average player because getting a 5 star like and like any 5 star with their lightcone if even possible is beyond luxury for the like of them
also we always talk about dps powercreep, but let´s talk about supports powercreep. my favorite character when i began to play the game was luocha, i pulled him back on 1.1 and he was deemed as "must have" because he made everything easier, and then fu-xuan came in which i wasn´t affected because i pulled her as well and on top of sustaining the team she gave very meaningfull offensive buffs, then huo-huo came and well i got her as well because i liked her design but my point still stands she was still a better sustainer than luocha, then gallagher A 4 STAR GAVE OUT FOR FREE was able to be more usefull than luocha on top of having a niche, than aventurine came in and became the best sustainer in the game, then lingsha came and powercrept gallagher. I still love luocha and think he´s the hottest man in all of star rail, but i still use him only because of the fact i love him, since i have all the abundance and preservation characters. i´m just really bitter than they made a 4 star better than luocha, and i´m not here to say that i think gallagher should be weak, i´m happy they´re making good 4 stars but still it stings a little when the character you had to spend 90 pulls or more to get is surpassed by a 4 star. that´s why i think characters should had given kit redesigns in order to at least make them usefull, for example giving luocha´s ultimate a res-pen on the enemies or def reduction since his kit at the time was said to be a "mix between abundance and nihility"
Sparkle is living proof that support powercreep is worse than usual DPS powercreep as that weak DPS can still be save by new meta harmony but new meta DPS will use already meta harmony. Now, even Dhil wants Sunday more than her and the only DPS that left for her being only Seele and QQ and we already know how bad these 2 quantum DPS are.
@@syidibuzzbuzz962 yeah also her crit dmg buff is almost useless on any new dps, since we have plenty of it in relics, lightcones, character's kit. Honestly if they just copied pasted bronya's kit and added the skill points, sparkle would be legit strong
I guess it is sad, but it’s not like Luocha is useless. He is still works really well to this day. And you can clear content with him. You might not 0 cycle but you are clearing
Mr. Pokke has single handedly woke me up from my slumber to squeeze out a video because his takes were terrible. Thank you for this video. I agree 100%.
Sparkle is living proof that support powercreep is worse than usual DPS powercreep as that weak DPS can still be save by new meta harmony but new meta DPS will use already meta harmony. Now, even Dhil wants Sunday more than her and the only DPS that left for her being only Seele and QQ and we already know how bad these 2 quantum DPS are.
@dante19890 so you just put it like sparkle issues and not powercreep issues ok. Then why Sunday literally more so positive than he with S1. Plus, if you follow the leaks, new dps after the herta and aglea still best in slot with Sunday and have really bad synergy with sparkle so it's her issues. So why Devs not making a dps for her like every other harmony? I already seen so many people regret pulling sparkle thinking that there will be a DPS that best use with her but no you just got scam by pulling sparkle. Just ask anyone is sparkle worthy of pulling and the answer will straight up no 10/10 unless your are a Waifu collectors but pulling Waifu considering as greedy and idiots
@@syidibuzzbuzz962E1S1 Sparkle owner who 1 Cycled current Moc 12 with E2S1 Acheron and E0 JQ, E0 Gallagher. And yes i have also a E1S1 Sunday which is benched since his Release. Didnt used him once.
Powercreep is main reason why I stopped spending any money in HSR. Treating game like excel sheet where you need to hyper optimize your jade funds doesn't sound fun for majority of playerbase. On top of obvious logic fallacy with it. Should I spend jades on X, what if Y release in few months or Z which I'm gonna like more etc. Let's be honest, I know it's supposed to be "worst almost impossible luck", but getting 8 characters as day 1 player sounds incredibly bad. It's literally 2 teams, where there is huge chance that at least one of them barely works for X content. Another point I want to make. HSR is not generous at all, which is common thing, I see online. Let's compare It to Genshin(cause people love to do this). HSR is literally releasing almost twice as many units with a little bit more pulls(Definietly not twice as much as Genshin), on top of powercreep being so much worse.
My rule when playing HSR : E0S1 is the limit, no pulls for Eidolons. Get new characters over investing vertically, enjoy as much as you can. Never spend money on banners because of Powercreep. If I can't clear MoC so be it. I've never tried to clear it. My characters are all lv.70 and I can clear MoC floor 9 and I'm happy with that
@@adnanbillychrysostome7003 I agree. Maybe my only exception is for that very special character (in my case, Ayaka in Genshin at C6), I will be very happy with a C0R0/E0S0. I rarely ever pull for 5* weapons and light cones. I try to claw myself back with great artifact/relic luck.
For me Jing Yuan is the best example of that. Most of his dmg is in the fua? Dw we made Topaz. Not enough dmg? Here is a brand new meta support ruan mei. You need to use his skill a lot to make stacks? We made Sparkle. Still not enough dmg? We got Robin now! And now Sunday. All of that just to keep him alive a little bit longer before another big pp dmg dealers take his place and supports and deal more dmg simply because all of these characters were made for them not for the general. So many investments, so much time passed bcs farming and the most importantly a lot of pulls spent and it will not be enough a few patches later since u've decided to invest in someone who's already "old"
To be completely fair, one could just ignore the highest levels of endgame and clear as much of it as they can. They would still get most of the reward jades, and while they would miss some, it's not the end of the world. The issue is that it just feels bad to not be able to clear endgame. It's a bit like playing a single-player RPG and not being able to beat the final boss, which is required for the best ending, then settling for a worse ending. 99% of players would do all they can to get the best ending when finishing a game like that, and while HSR endgame is by no means the end of the entire game, it IS effectively the final boss (it's just a final boss that happens to change every once in a while). But if you want to clear endgame, you need high numbers, and the highest numbers belong to the highest tier of characters - a tier that characters YOU like may not belong to. The argument "invest in your favorites and you will clear" doesn't work for me not only because of the points already mentioned in the video, but also because it's difficult to overlook one painful truth: "Great supports are even better when paired with great DPSes." Sure, you could give Blade - or Jingliu, who was the example in the video - the best possible support characters and the best possible relics. But I bet that if you gave the same kind of support to a top-tier meta DPS, such as Feixiao, you would end up with significantly higher damage numbers, as well as with faster clear times. It's difficult to consider that, then look at your favorite and not feel bad about your choice of character. You pulled the best possible supports for them, but you KNOW those supports would work a lot better if they had the best possible DPS partner as well, instead of... whoever you selected. I also think an underdiscussed problem is that most content is tailored to the meta, including story content, and there are encounters whose difficulty changes massively depending on whether you have the right tool against them. I'll avoid mentioning specific fights here to avoid story spoilers, but suffice it to say, I think the bosses who were added later into the game's lifespan are significantly more difficult to farm for weekly materials than previous ones, because they were balanced at a different point of the powercreep curve. They have bigger numbers, they have more challenging mechanics, and when tackling them, you are far more reliant on a good support character from a friend if your DPSes aren't up to par. "Up to par" often meaning "new enough." And I say this as someone who benefitted from pulling new DPSes; I pulled Rappa, for example, and a certain Penacony boss became a joke, both in the overworld and in AS. Before Rappa, I couldn't 3-star that boss in AS. That's how much of a difference having the "right character" makes.
@@watchwood That's the exact issue I encountered which was why I dropped the game. I was playing some of these bosses that were clearly screaming at me to have a Ruan Mei or Firefly and it was kinda ridiculous. The worst part was clearing them was required to build some extremely important characters. I only got as far as I did into Penacony due to my E1S1 Sunday. I pulled for him out of love, but it became increasingly noticeable that I would struggle tremendously the further I got if he was not there.
This sums up my frustrations quite aptly. Like as someone who did invest like multiple pities (4 5 stars 2 LC's no eidolons) into DoT cuz "i like Kafka" / "it was strong (at the time)" / etc. and feeling like i needed to drop it for this MoC for some random super break core I halfheartedly threw pities at "because they were modern supports" that did more faster and much more comfortably without much stress, being met with statements like "yup thats how it is wait for them to release a dedicated dot support" or "thats what you get for investing into dot" is beyond taxing.
Reason why hoyo has too powercreep is because their combat system in this game is way too simple and frankly bad, people say hoyo should add enemies that require strategy to beat but the combat system is too simple to allow any skill expression, 80% of the game is decided by your stats and half of the characters just spam their skill or basic every turn
Thats the reason I quite HSR at 1.2. the combat was too simple and I spent my time watching yt while pc autocombats in background. wtf? Heroes 3 had instant autocombat 20 y ago. I returned after an year and will stick until 3.0 then delete the game cos there are just better games.
One of my biggest problems with hsr combat is that the universal mechanics suck. One example being the break bar debuffs are way too samey with only the turn delay and the standard dot dmg if you dont count quantum, ice and imaginary debuffs. But the real problem is that 90% of the dps in the game dont give a shit about the dot debuff, so why does everyone has it? This is why characters have overloaded kits nowadays from my perspective
It baffles me that people play a waifu/guyfu game, and treat it as a spreadsheet simulator-- but somehow it's the players that love and want their characters (and the time and money spent on them) to be relevant that are "crazy".
As a 1.x limited haver, it's genuinely grim how Seele and Jingliu feels ass to use compared to current DPS units Had like 4 limiteds and their cones in the early years and it feels so tiring to use Seele and Jingliu compared to just having a subpar built FF clear in the same time
U know, even now there wud be many who'll justify this issue by saying it's a turn based game - HP inflation is the only way or as long as u clear within 10 cycles, powercreep is normal or its just 80/160 jades, not a big deal. But they all forget one simple thing, this is a casual game & a person shud be able to enjoy their favs char in a somewhat balanced team (a team of 4 healers is a bit difficult to execute). Also, regarding investment - we forget that it's finite & limited - E6S5 as well as max relic rolls. If the trend continues, we'll need relics/planars/supports that buff dmg upto 5-10 times the dps' current value.
Pokke didn’t directly address his statement either. He went on to say people have made attacks towards him, then proceeded to double down. He didn’t offer any suggestions to the problem either. He baited and farmed the drama while insulting fans in the process
Very well said. I think Pokke's comment was dumb but he's not the bad guy. Hoyo and any gacha devs thrive on FOMO and the players not having enough information to "choose wisely" on every banner. We get to see like 3-6 weeks ahead realistically and then the character is only around for 3 weeks for us to save enough currency (or buy it), and see whether the charact is worth it. That's just not enough time to seriously test every character as they come up to see how they'll do. No one would have predicted Jing Yuan of all characters would be buffed continuously while Jingliu would not. No one knew that kits would get continuously overloaded/powercrept, like the difference between Tingyun and Sunday. No one even knows when e.g. Blade will rerun. No one has a crystal ball and it's impossible to keep up with every banner and it's all by design so you spend more.
It's a shame that the game just refuses to release sidegrades. Every new DPS character has to be better than the last in some way or another and every new support has to be more broken than the last. And I wouldn't mind this if the game modes weren't so absurdly biased in favor of the new shiny thing to the point that trying to complete anything without them is an uphill battle.
It's painful because it's like 1. Get the character 2. Get their team 3. Use the character in content catered around them 4. The content changes faster than character strength increases(no more brute forcing) 5. The content probably will outscale your character before you have their full team On every point, except 3, t's the player getting screwed.
I honestly think the best way to "combat" powercreep is trying to cope with getting 33 or 30 stars out of 36 from MoC/PF/AS, as that lowers the power level required to achieve those goals, so you could continue to use those characters you care so much about. Spending hundreds of rolls on characters you don't really like just to make one unit viable, just so you can get an extra 80/160 jades every two weeks is just a horrible return on investment. I don't like that solution, but it's probably the best way to remain relatively happy in a game like this. Let's just hope those parameters hold up a year or two from now, where it *is* possible to get all but the last couple rewards from endgame content without rolling for a bunch of units you don't like: missing out on ~200 jades isn't that big a deal, but when it becomes the full 800 every reset, it becomes a big problem.
Mate, until just a few months ago I literally never did any of the endgame modes at all. I basically didn't bother with keeping up with the game's "meta". Until I started the Hoolay Luofu Arc quests, where all of a sudden everything had much higher HP pools and was taking me literally minutes to finish random fodder mobs. This shit is leaking into the story content and that's fucked
@@Liauw2806I picked blade cause I saw wind weakness after a long time in story Lol. I was like Idk anything about this boss let's pick the most tanky dps and lol he was fun with hoolay in story 😂
Something I really wish Hoyo games would try is take a leaf out of games such as FGO and Dokkan: Go back and buff old characters. It's crazy that 5 star AND low rarity characters in FGO released in it's 1st year (now coming on it's 10th) can be among the best characters in the game even now. All because they go back and enhance the old units. It would be so refreshing and be a breath of fresh air for all players, especially those that invested heavy early on. Imagine using a Seele now to 0 cycle the current MOC (for example). Limitless possibilities.
This company is terrified of direct buffs when it will only help them make more money. Everyone has their favorites, as you said. To know that you can acquire your favorite as a playable character, while also having them be strong on their own, or decent, is a good feeling. Every other gacha I play buffs their characters so they don’t fall behind, so while they might get new partners, they are still fine without them. When I first found out Hoyo didn’t buff characters, it already gave me a bad feeling of how they might run their games. I enjoy HSR, but I feel like what people said about the game in the past is coming true, the idea that the devs put on a generous facade, and now they slowly watch how much they can get away with in the game.
People will call you having skills issues of wanting weak characters getting buffs in this game. But no amount of skills can save a bad units such as silver wolf
I lost all of my 50/50s from 2.1 to 2.7, 5 times in a row. two of which were Feixiao and Firefly, so I didn't get them. I cannot clear content bc my 5* dps are Seele, Jing Yuan, Himeko, Jingliu and Dr. Ratio, only 1.X units. I am a support rail, I have every single harmony character bc I like to collect them. Now I am saving for The Herta, but what if I lose the 50/50 on hard pity again? what am I supposed to do, to try to clear content with Jing Yuan and Himeko? Bc the only usable dps I have are Ratio, JY and HImeko. Seele and Jingliu cannot clear content at all and its frustrating. Mr. Pokee says that we should plan ahead, but how could I know I would lose the 50/50 on hard pity for Feixiao? I pulled Jiaoqiu right before using a guaranteed bc I have been waiting for him since the first leaks of him being a pink foxian healer. Why would I play if I don't get my faves???? the whole point on clearing content is to get jades to get more characters. What is the point in chasing the meta if I dont have fun??? Another powercreep that affected me was the sustain powercreep. I had luocha and Fu Xuan, yet I still had to pull aventurine bc those two alone couldn't keep me fully alive or give me enough damage to clear content at all. I seriously hope they start giving more jades and stop releasing new characters so frquently. Two new 5* per patch is absurd, and is the reason why the meta keeps changing so quickly besides from the clear lack of care when they make characters. They simply add an absurd multiplier even bigger than the last and call it a day.
I lost 6 50/50s out of 8 between 2.0 to 2.7 at 75+ pity. I took 8 cycles this MoC and that's because i spent money on E2S1 IL back in 1.3 paired with E0S1 Sunday. My E0S1 Feixiao, Aven, E1 R obin, E6 Moze with great builds were struggling for some reason.
I typically start a gacha game because I like a specific character's design and really want to pull them. Take this game- I started right around 2.0 because I particularly loved Sparkle's design. Now Sunday is almost a straight upgrade to Sparkle in most scenarios, and we're only in 2.7. I love HSR, but it's not gonna survive if it continues to make peoples' favorite characters irrelevant within a year.
At this point, i already accept the reality that if i want to get my favorite character, i must ignore full star end game content. That's all about it. By the end of the day, this is just a game and i want to enjoy it, not to be depressed because of it.
The term "HSR is more generous than Genshin" didn't age well. HSR is significantly more expensive. Powercreep becomes a real problem if the game turns into "pull who you need, instead of pull who you want." Genshin despite having powercreep, it's still a game where you can pull who you want, instead of who you need. Theater is clearable if you're a long term player even if you only pull who you want, abyss as well. The argument of keep investing worked for me in Genshin with C3 Raiden who I'm still using every abyss reset to full clear with since 2.0, despite being weaker than modern c0 dps. I have no firsthand experience in HSR with this so I can't comment on that.
Heck, Gaming and Heizou are still really solid 4 star DPS. You can literally wipe abyss with just 4 stars Despite having one of the strongest characters in the game, which is Neuvi, I still enjoy playing my Wanderer, Xiao, Cyno, Tighnari, etc. Literally units from years ago, some of which were labeled as mediocre even upon release, and one is a standard 5 star. Of course I have good and invested supports, but most of those supports are also either old units or 4 stars. My Wanderer is still strong at C2. All of those characters are still good, and I don't even yet have Xianyun, Furina, or Xilonen. That's how good those older units are. DILUC got an absolute blessing of a team with just Furina and Xianyun, very universal supports that can fit into a lot of teams and change your gameplay in fun ways We have none of that in HSR. Break is the closest we have to a team that's good with mostly 4 stars, and which can turn any character into a break unit (Break Himeko for example). That's about all. It used to be generous, but now it's more like hideous. I genuinely enjoyed HSR when I first started playing, even though it was just moments before Acheron's release. Even upon her release some units were still good. I could easily clear content with my Dr. Ratio, but now I can't even do that. It used to be generous because they let us breathe between new characters, the endgame content was much easier (used to clear AS at maximum difficulty, can't even clear difficulty 3 with full stars now). It used to be more generous because the rewards we were given were enough to let us get at least some of the characters we wanted. Now it's near impossible, and with bloated difficulty of endgame content, getting jades is becoming harder and harder
I think part of why people like Pokke are out of touch with the reality of the majority of players is just the fact that these people have the funds to pull EVERYONE. They'll make their little jokes about it draining their wallets, so relatable! But the fact is that a lot of big name content creators have almost every limited 5* in the game. That's NOT going to happen for most players. Most players have a budget. Most players aren't making money via content creation. Most players aren't getting twitch donations to pull for certain characters. But this reality is often lost on bigger names because it's different from their own reality of having everything.
one thing I want to point out, is that main story HP inflation /powercreep also exists. But as I can best recall, in every significant combat-related story mission, there was always an additional support mechanic that would allow teams to catch up (but not necessarily all the time, think back to the tik-tok Aventurine Boss fight, the only handicap was the ability for 6th grade reading). Even our previous combat events, although we got pretty much nothing recently, always had a way for teams to achieve the bare minimum/full requirements. It was only me and other try-hard sweaters who aimed for S or SS-rank with then-meta-pull teams. All your rant is still valid though, but if someone wanted to make the conscious decision to completely cut out the 3 endgame modes from where this rant originated from, then the issues currently present have a very low chance of ever rearing their ugly heads in other combat content of HSR. But even with that, the FOMO, the Sunk Cost Fallacy, and all sorts of normal human emotional responses to missing out on lost opportunities will still be there, just not as immediately present for us now.
I feel this video because i want to be one of those guys who invests like crazy in one character (Firefly) to keep her relevant but i'm afraid because she will fall off one day although at least in my case she's had a great run (she's my strongest DPS at E2S1 after like 6 months of her release but maybe the fact that i keep minmaxxing her relics and keep pulling characters for her team like Lingsha or Fugue are helping more than i'm willing to notice) so it keeps like trying to run on a ground that is constantly collapsing and if you slow down at all you will fall into the void but eventually you WILL fall because you can't keep up anymore no matter how hard you try
And from all this powercreep discussion not one person has mentioned the second biggest contributor to powercreep… the god damn relic system Edit: also forgot to mention how Hoyo nerfs story mode immediately after a few complains of being difficult (they even went out of their way to make an easy mode) but any difficulty complains towards endgame goes straight to the spam folder
"you can't just keep shilling jades for supports" huh... That's... A good way of putting things. HSR doesn't really give us any solid all-rounder 4 stars the same way genshin does, heck there's probably other gachas that are nicer with their 4 star cast. This is something I noticed, every clear I see from my friends and the characters I bring are all 5 stars. 4 stars are very rare to see, and when they do show up it's usually Gallagher or Tingyun. I know people joked about genshin could never... But honestly, genshin could never make me pull for a 5 star I don't like. My only Pyro DPS was Xiangling for nearly 2 years until Lyney came out and his BiS team at the time had Xiangling in it. In HSR, I was looking at Sunday Banner right in front of me, knowing he's Jing Yuan's premium support... But I just couldn't get myself to do it. I don't like Sunday. My E0S1 Jing Yuan will have to stay benched against my will, but I don't want to pull for a character I don't like. It feels bad that in spite of my investment into the game, I will never be able to full clear any of the endgame modes. But I've simply accepted HSR to be a greedy Gacha, there's simply no funny T21 run with +10 Halloween Nils or 36 star Abyss with Heizou Taser in this game 😔
So MoC was doable for me as a casual not up to date, but AS is just undoable for me. I wish more would focus on adding more synergies that elevate older characters. Hell, let me *enjoy* investing in older and weaker characters. Make it 100% on the 5-star banner and make it cost 100-120 jades instead. Investing just isn't fun for those weaker characters and I feel like I really want to invest in the modern best. Which is a STUPID sentiment for a single player game
it's honestly so sad because seele is my favorite character in the game, i liked her even before starting, but i know that when she has a rerun i'll get her, build her, give her a team, and then continue to use my acheron because seele wouldn't be able to clear anything.
to all the people that disliked the video. can you explain your point of view. i feel like all of his points make total sense. What do you see that we dont see?
I mean something that is important to consider is that even with seele, which from your own video can be easily considered one of the worst dps in the game, there are people out here clearing the current MOC 12 with e0s0 seele, e0 robin, and e0 sunday. Like you don't need dozens of eidolons and mega whaling to make these characters work, you need to do smart pulls, and *invest* . EVEN seele can clear moc 12 within 10 cycles if you pull for good characters, and I fee like expecting to pull only DPS characters with 0 synergy, refusing to pull any supports and then blaming the game for not being able to 3 star MOC 12 is frankly ridiculous. MOC 12 (and all the other end game modes) are just that, *end game modes* . They are designed for the hard core players who want a challenge, not for the casual player who just wants to pull all their favorites and doesn't want to think about the meta. If we take out clearing the hardcore end game content, that player who wants to "do well with a team of 3 dps" can do that easily in simulated universe and the story, along with traditional exploration. I understand your sentiment but getting mad at the developers because the worst 5* dps' in the game only work when you pull good supports (no eidolons required) just seems nonsense to me. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You *CAN* make bad characters like seele work and clear the content *WITHOUT* whaling, but to do that you have to care about the meta, and pull the good meta supports like robin or sunday. If you want to ignore the meta and only pull your favorites, then why are you trying to do the pinnacle of end game content? the difference between a 20 cycle run of MOC 12 and a 10 cycle is literally only 60 jade. If you're this theoretical casual player who doesn't give a damn about the meta and just wants to pull the pretty faced characters, brother it's 60 JADE. Getting mad at seele only being able to clear MOC 12 with good e0 supports is akin to getting mad that a single target character like boothill is literally unplayable in pure fiction. Each game mode has it's own meta, and if you ignore it you won't be able to clear the pinnacle of that content. With that in mind there is absolutely *nothing* stopping you from getting like 80-90% of the seasons rewards in spite of ignoring the meta, as MOC 10 and below is a literal joke to clear if you just *invest* in your teams. Keep in mind this is a *gacha game* and a free one at that. Wanting to get every character you want for free and having them clear the absolute highest difficulty content without having to think about the meta whatsoever is the *definition* of greed that pooke mention IMO. With all this in mind I don't deny that hp inflation is pretty rediculous in this game, and annoying to deal with, but I completely agree with pooke that if you pull smart (don't ignore the meta breaking supports when they come around), you can 100% play this game f2p. EVEN if you pulled seele as your first teams main dps, if you played smart and didn't skip all the insanely good supports that everyone was saying *DO NOT SKIP UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES* , you can clear MOC 12 without insane eidolon investment. Maybe the occasional light cone for a support if they're super busted like sundays, but that's all you'd need. If you want to make a dozen teams with the characters you like, go ahead and do that, but wanting that to ignore the meta and spread your resources poorly while having your teams capable of clearing the *hardest content in the game* intended for the hardcore players is just frankly ridiculous, as even if you didn't foresee the future and pulled some of the bad dps character who used to be meta breaking, you can still make them work with proper pulling of supports
TLDR: Have EZAs like dokkan that buff older units, add more mechanics and animations like active skills so the game isn’t just skill skill ultimate boredom. Stay with me really quick. Dokkan is a game that has minimal skill expression and gameplay but it excels in animations and you are able to run different teams and still clear content. This game could be more fun if they added more mechanics or even animations like active skills or intro animations(idk how) than just skill ultimate skill ultimate etc.. For heavens sake dokkan has EZAs that give old units an omega boost(most of the time) FOR FREE after you beat it’s event and they still always hit top grossing no reason for greedy hoyo to not buff older units..
Dokkan Majin Buu Saga team rn is made of like 80% EZAs. Units that are 3 years old or more and they perform BETTER than newer units. This is the way imo. Make traces/ascensions for old characters. It's that easy. Multipliers are a problem? Now you get level 12 traces that massively boost the %. Make new unique traces that give new abilities: I play Jingliu, make a trace that for every point you use in her enhanced state she gets + X% damage X times. Make Seele get stackable buffs for every kill she gets. Also, with this, you'd make an event for it, like a side-story quest for the character with story. It would be cool af!
I feel this deeply and have nothing to add aside from a lil bit of humour - that jing Yuan is the only "shit" unit that was worth not giving up for since he became "meta" now (and I love him). Can't wait for him to be probably unusable in 3.1 or something. Literally Fuege came out and she's lovely but then I ask myself, am I gonna pull a support for my Boothill when they're probably gonna kill break meta in 3.0
That was my take on Fugue as well. I wanted to pull her for Boothill, but atp it just doesn't feel like it's worth the investment when someone like Firefly or Rappa can do it easier even without Fugue, and especially because we're going into new meta and there's just no point in investing into poor Boothill. I enjoy him a lot, but I have to bench him because he's just struggling so hard. But at the same time I can't, because all of my other units want either Sunday, Robin, or Aventurine, and his team is the only team that needs completely different units. So I'm just stuck using an archetype that is going to be outdated in a couple of patches if not in the next one, and I'm having no luck with Firefly so far
@DeadVoxel I don't have FF or Rappa or RM so getting Fuege especially E1 for Booty is amazing and he is an amazing unit if you do have his supports and I do like him enough that I pulled Fuege for him anyway, just with no hopes for the future lol. I know I won't ever catch up with meta so I'll just keep pulling my favorite characters and that's it, current MoC solidified for me that even if you have perfect teams, well built, sig LCs etc, if you don't have specific ones for specific MoC you're shit out of luck anyway so ehh I really can't care anymore
@@Szczurzyslawa yeah fair point. It just feels awful to play single target characters nowadays, the game is punishing you for it even outside of MoC And congrats on getting Fugue! I would've considered but I'm quite literally too broke for that atm, but I have seen that she's good with him. Perhaps in the future
@@DeadVoxel Yeah ST feels awful but tbh Boothill feels like the only ST unit that can brute force stuff with it. And thank you! I actually won both 50-50s and got her E1 on "accident" so 😭at least Boot got his perfect support, gotta enjoy it while it lasts lmaoo.
@@Szczurzyslawa heck yeah, congrats again! He's eating well now And that's true, he does kind of brute force through it. I've easily reached over 100k-200k with him from his enhanced basic attack alone. It's very good against boss and elite enemies, but when it comes to multiple enemies... yeah it gets tricky. Another thing I struggle to figure out still is how to sustain him, because his base stats are pretty low, so he gets easily killed a lot
0:49 it's possible for SOME Seeles. Not mine tho. I'm strugling with myngood teams already. I don't care what some youtuber or nolifer can do with a powercrept unit. They play this side game more seriously than what most people put into their jobs. Some guy can clear all dark souls games in a row without geting hit once... does that make dark souls easy? Not for me.
i feel like what would solve this problem is imaginarium theater in genshin- not only does it motivate you to build your characters of the selected elements but it also makes you explore some team comps. this is probably a stupid argument but if they introduced an endgame content where you have to use most of your characters then it will probably solve like idk 20% of the problem? it will also motivate you to pull so hoyo would be winning. another thing that would solve this powercreep problem is if they slowed down on the next new dps release, atleast give the current dps a chance to shine and work on more preservation + abundance + new path characters and mechanics.
I actually talk about this in the video releasing next week! You're right that it probably wont really solve the problem, but it would be something hoyo could do that makes it less annoying, because every character would have their place.
No need to invest in characters, just pull for E0 Herta, knowing she will be powercrept by Castorice after 2 patches. Don’t even bother with team building. Just use any supports you already have
Once again this is the time where I want to bring up FGO, because in terms of investing in a character or team it is miles better than HSR. First off, both have gacha related investment where rolling multiple copies of the same unit can improve their abilities. The difference is that in FGO the NP level upgrade is mainly to upgrade one aspect of their kit numberswise, rather than unlocking a mechanic or passive like in HSR. People may argue about Append Skills, but the recent changes made it so even NP1 can unlock multiple key skills with enough Bond grinding. Secondly, the investment options in FGO is much more varied than in HSR. FGO has: - Grails, Fous and paws which raises the overall base stats - Command Codes which adds new effects to each of their normal attacks - The aforementioned Append Skills that offers buffs that you can now pick and choose freely after unlocking it - Class Score that gives even more passive buffs to a whole class(Like a buff for all your Destruction/Hunt/Erudition units instead of just 1 unit) - And this year we are getting Bond CEs turned into passive. For certain units, it's like having parts of their signature LC become their base kit if we're talking in HSR equivalent And no, Artifact/Relic substats optimization is a pretty shit example of investment to improve your units due to the RNG nature of it Thirdly, the SQ/Interlude upgrade system, which can buff certain skill or NP of a Servant, which can be a numbers upgrade and/or additional effects that can change how the unit plays significantly. HSR obviously has none beyond adding new supports that can help the old units or stronger artifact sets, but they can never compare to the newest units that can also utilize those new things All these makes the powercreep in FGO less of an issue, since some newer units are indeed better than old ones, but you never really feel pressed because with enough investments your old characters can still crush the latest contents in FGO. That said, both games still have the same issue of having certain supports unit being borderline mandatory, example Castoria or Ruan Mei. An Arts team or a Break team without one of them is very different even if you can cope with the other options.
Also, another thing It's not related to the characters, but the way FGO allows you to borrow a unit from your friends to fill in a spot/role helps immensely in teambuilding and alleviate the need to roll for new characters all the time to keep up, like we're experiencing in HSR If they actually let us use a friend support unit for challenging endgame contents in HSR, I'm pretty sure people won't be complaining about powercreep as hard as it is lately. Will that just make them borrow the strongest E6S5 characters? Obviously, but I do think it's better to have that options rather than the barely used Support system we currently have in HSR
Insanely good video. Im a new player of honkai, only been playing for like 2 months, so i havent been much affected by this, but i still can obviously see the issue the game has in an outsiders perspective. Of course its a case of how the game functions as a turn base RPG that hp inflations is so prevalent, but even then the amount of change in powercreep is still clearly ridiculous and way too over the top, and its only done so people pull for more modern characters out of necessity rather than interest in personality or actual kit. Small amounts of powercreep is not a bad thing and can be even considered a good thing in some cases {just look at how many people wanted xiangling to finally be powercreeped in genshin} but still, there are levels to this and honkai just goes way too far only for the sake of money.
You cannot imagine how bad players feels about powercreep who since launch start playing hsr. I guess pulling only the character that I LIKES is the wrong approach to play this game. But why in other gacha game I don't have this problem. Easy because they amount of powercreep is not as much as hsr.
This conversation always brings up the different sides of the community. Even though I spend a lot on this game because it’s my personal favorite Gacha game, I always see how crazy the power creep even with every single good character that I own, like E2 Firefly, or E2 Acheron, I struggle with the content sometimes. It is very apparent and I do wish that the power creep for this game slows down severely. I know it won’t but I can only hope. I want to be able to play this game without the need of getting every single character because I didn’t look at leaks or didn’t plan harshly on the teams
How does E2 acheron and firefly struggle? Unless you're using them solo maybe lol. If my E0S1 Acheron can clear all content I don't know how E2 would ever struggle. Not disagreeing with your thoughts about powercreep though, I definitely think it should slow down
@@leightonx7430 Well, I should've said that I'm not really struggling with E2 Acheron and Firefly, but it feels like it after every update. Like it feels like every single MoC, or ApoS, or PF make these characters feel worse and worse, even if it's only slightly. For me personally, its feels that way. I should've rephrased it, but overall I'm not "struggling," more as noticing the curve of not doing better than last update
This is where genshin, and I say this as a hsr player, beats hsr. Powercreep is much more manageable. Is it there ? Yeah let's not sugarcoat it. But hot damn if I want to beat the abyss with my diluc team I fucking can. I can't even imagine pulling out my blade or my jingliu again now against current moc. And I think they are the coolest looking characters in the game. Seeing them barely hit 300k while my acheron (i love her but still wtf) dishes out 1 million twice per turn is depressing. And now she's gonna get completely powercrept in the next few months.
Another very sad thing imo is not seeing 4 star clearing endgame videos anymore. The powerscaling of the endgame is just too high. In other gacha games like Genshin and Wuwa i still see 4 star pnly clears which just shows that anyone could clear with the right build. In hsr the endgame is scaled on the power of the latest 5 star. Making others practically useless
Hi fl2ur, love your videos and thank you for bringing awareness over the state Star Rail is heading to. I quit HSR on day 1 of the Rappa patch, after an almost uninterrupted streak, too tired of the story content and the rampant power creep. I am that Seele player, I played the entirety of Hi3rd and Seele is my absolute favorite, my Seele was reaching a level where she was out damaging my Acheron and Firefly with her dedicated team (E2S1 Seele, E2S1 Sparkle, E0 Silver Wolf, E0S1 Fu Xuan), I had lots of fun forcing content with her, but it became stale quickly because my second team was dying because the poor endgame decisions. With this comment I kinda want to add pointers to your videos especially the "HP inflation is the symptom argument", I hope you see this! As someone who came from having played Genshin ever since basically 1.2 (played a bit before but not too much), and HI3rd (only for the story, barely touched endgame), I entered with the opinion that endgame in HSR would be treated as Genshin, aka: power creep is a circle and not a line, a new character can valorize old teams, but here we are talking expectations, I didn't expect them to go HI3rd route where they make old units straight up useless (and apparently the ramp in HSR is FASTER than Hi3rd currently for this); The argument: "Well if you don't like the power creep just don't play endgame and stick with your characters!", in the HSR case, this is completely nuts, for a variety of reasons: - first, the OVERWORLD CONTENT gets worse, every time a new area was released I felt an immense amount of HP increase, and enemies getting gimmicky for the new characters released (good luck to anyone trying to do feixiao boss with only the two free healers we get, on a realistic scene where the player doesn't even optimize units but plays for story); - second, the patch content, HSR patches are empty like no patch in a hoyo game ever felt, all the content is packed up at the start and it's usually 6+ dialogue quests (handled poorly for me but that's another thing), the rest of the patch is: 2 x2 on mats event where one in the middle in the patch, one login event like expeditions or give materials for gems, and one combat event which basically forces you to use the trial characters (or your version if you have them) to force it, all on a very slow release pace, which only really leaves the endgame as content where you can actually do something in the game, considering most of the time in HSR you login -> autofarm -> log out; These two problems create a feedback loop where you will just end up needing new characters to do basic progression or worse find activity to do in the game at all. The "HP inflation is the symptom argument", I wholeheartedly agree with you with that one! I must add that the explanation you gave in that video however (the kits being more and more a mechanics mash), is also a symptom. Why that? Because what causes HSR is the game's lack of main mechanics and focus on its combat system, to explain this better let's use Genshin as an example, whichhas an Elemental Reactions system that you play around with, even characters like Eula and Lyney cannot escape this (application always exists no matter what character and you have to manage that). In HSR one would think that the core mechanic is the break bar, but that is false, because it was optional for a long time, enemies can LOCK it, the only thing that HSR has that doesn't make it go fully barebones combat system is the ultimate mechanic which "breaks" turn order, that's it. A lack of main game mechanic to play around with generates character based expression, aka the mechanics are put on the characters themselves and the metas become artificial and separate because there isn't a common ground of interaction. DoT cannot interact with Super Break, because the mechanics are tied to the character, so the teams become very specific for each character and that generates the overvalue of those super generic supports like Robin, but hoyo has to sell, so the next support has even more general buffs. That's a symptom of a lack of core mechanic/system to play around with. When I provided this example with friends I had this suggestion always in mind: what if break bar was always on, everything could break it but "vulnerable elements" just broke it faster, breaking it gave a big advantage to everyone and DoT also broke it? That would have made the game play around the break bar and the characters would have been made around it. Hope you like this read (if you read it ahah) and keep having fun in HSR and don't get too much burnout, the train has stopped for me sadly because I couldn't bear this and the scarce story quality that I have been feeling past 1.0 ahahahah, my heart's in Belobog.
Read the whole thing, thank you for your thought out response! Always love to hear takes from the community. I do actually agree with what you said; character kits are a symptom of a larger problem too. Really, the problem seems like a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" thing - did hp inflation happen because of kits or vice versa? But, it really comes from the design decisions hoyo made when they made the game originally, or I guess lack thereof.
@@fl2urdo you also agree with the power creep flowing into the casual/overworld part of the game or do you feel it's different? My example for this would be that I know multiple people who were in the aventurine boss fight for literal 30 minutes because they didn't have the right units for it I personally tried to experience everything, including endgame, but a perspective from a f2p player that doesn't do endgame but logs in constantly would be interesting to verify how the actual base game power creep is handled lol
Just saw this now, apologies for the late response! Personally, I think that powercreep affects everyone, not just those clearing end game content. Here's a hypothetical example - Imagine a player that has never done end game at all, and casually plays the game just for the story. They go through the story to the point that they can fight the Feixiao Weekly Boss(released in 2.5) with their favorite character Argenti. For whatever reason, whether that's argenti is bad, skill issue, poor relics, etc, they don't clear, so they get frustrated with the game and give up for two patches. Now that more story is released in 2.7, they want to come back to the game and play more, and when they came back they roll on the current banners in 2.7(firefly + tingyun). Those two as a combo lets them clear the Feixiao boss they were stuck on. Theoretically, Argenti should've been able to clear the feixiao boss, it's physical weak right? But they couldn't do it. After not playing the game for two patches, they return and get the hot new thing(tingyun) and a DPS that works with her(firefly), and they do. That's an extreme hypothetical, but it illustrates how powercreep can affect everyone - you don't have to be a meta chaser or end game player for powercreep to be relevant, because current content(including story) is *always* catered around whatever is new.
3:53 I kind of disagree. I came into star rail from other gacha games like Epic Seven, Grand Summoner and Last Cloudia. Most of the time when pulling you should always look at the kit after deciding if you like the character and do a bit of compare and contrast. If you already have a working DPS even if they are from older patches you should be going for what you don’t have or what you need. If I’ve pulled five DPS back to back and try to complete endgame with subpar sustain and supports, that’s my own fault. Yes, the games shouldn’t be looked with an investment mindset but at the same time if you are actively not trying to evaluate what you have on your account and pull accordingly you will end up lacking in some areas. This happened to me when I was pushing for endgame in epic seven. What was working for the story(which was at the time very difficult) didn’t work for the other modes like hall of trials or certain expedition bosses. If you’ve played epic seven you would know that the majority of the endgame is complex, infinitely more so than star rail. This forced me to look at my collection of mostly non-cleanse soul weavers and look at the base summon list for options. The point I’m trying to make is that these games should have more nuance for who you pull. Though for this to happen they have to make more complex mechanics that are specific to endgame. This would really prevent HP inflation and force the player to work around or with the given mechanic. Also another thing they really need to add more units to standard banners. Not limited characters moved to the standard banner, characters made that are non limited that will be moved immediately after the rate up period is over. Epic seven does this and its the best system for releasing story related characters I’ve seen.
Rather than a game, HSR has become a platform to deliver new gacha. This might sound funny at first read, because "haha, obviously the gacha game is about delivering new gacha, duh", and that's true, but it's often not the full and only truth about these games. Plenty of gacha games have great story, characters, and/or gameplay without snuffing them out for supposed profit the way HSR does. This became abundantly clear to me when Penacony's potential as a story was butchered in favour of promoting a new character every patch. I'd place Penacony's beginning up there with FGO main story chapters in terms of intrigue, but the latter half was handled with all the subtlety of an FGO 4fun event. I straight up felt like the writers weren't given enough space to finish what they started in favour of promoting new characters. You know when you listen to a dubbed show, but the audio quality is kinda poor and the voice acting isn't all hat good or fitting, so you imagine the VAs recording lines in the studio, rather than being immersed in the characters and story? Think old kids' anime dubbed in your local language (i find it endearing when i watch them nowadays). That's what HSR has become to me, lol (not so endearing tho).
Nevermind that, let me gorge on more product. e: Even if you are lucky and spend all your rolls to make your faves better, including eidolons, LCs, and lots of gear farming, it won't be enough. Good luck making up the difference in base multipliers and buffs, when in 2 years the new premium team clears the 30mil hp boss in like 1-2 cycles with ease. And for the people who argue that old characters must be rotated out or Hoyo will go under, an extremely small % of the playerbase will stick to 1-2 teams for multiple years like that. People will roll new characters either for the novelty or because they like them. I'd argue that focusing on new mechanics rather than sheer power gaps would encourage players to roll more.
Worst part is,i pulled each of the "best" units and even got lucky enough to get them after losing the 50/50 and i STILL cant clear because i cant hyperinvest Back when i got DHIL and kafka,they were top-tier(i started in 1.6) and then got BS for kafka....when i started getting into endgame i thought i was set but no. I couldn't clear at all so i got FF and ruan mei through sheer luck.....fast forward to today i got forced to pull acheron and her sig cause i don't have any other option but i STILL cant clear because i dont have jq or fugue for my ff....currently saving for aglea in hopes of maybe,maybe being able to clear with her just one MOC(i got sunday for her aswell)
I have all the best units too btw. Robin sunday ruan mei huohuo aventurine etc. But because i dont have e2s1 acheron with jq,because i dont have e1s1 ff with fugue i can't clear...its bs because i got punished for pulling what's the best for me almost each patch but unable to keep up simply because i dont have enough jades to constantly get the new "best" thing
TLDR i got punished for playing late in 1.6 and i need to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars to be able to keep up. Say hsr is generous all you want but it is a fact that f2p and low spenders dont have nearly enough jades and resources to keep up with endgame unless they've been playing since day 1 Whales are so out of touch man,and i lost all my respect for pokke after his horrid tweet
I don't often comment here but I was ranting to my friend on multiple occasions about how I hated the direction that HSR is moving towards right now. I really liked Silverwolf and hearing everyone sing their praises during her launch truly made me feel as if she wasn't ever going to be not relevant until characters that can implant their own types to the enemies came out. And its not just Silverwolf, what happened to Seele? I don't get why we need to invest in getting so many copies of a support(s) just to attempt to make a character to be near viable. I also dislike the over-reliance of pulling a support unit just to make your favourite character work like I don't see myself doing well with inbibitor lunae without Sparkle. Im really happy that you brought this powercreep rant up as I believe that we need a "voice" for Hoyoverse to realize and perhaps do something about this.
I don't think I've heard you sound this exasperated before and it's making me laugh. You usually sound so calm and collected. You know powercreep is getting out of hand when fl2ur changes his tone edit: couldn't agree more btw, you're hitting the nail on the head as usual
I'm glad it came across that way because I wanted to make it clear how it made me feel - I think the only other time I got close to this was my original recording of the simulated universe video, though I ended up re-recording it to tone it down in the end. I appreciate you watching and giving your thoughts a ton!🙏
@@fl2ur I loved it! Powercreep is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, issues in the game, and while I'm pessimistic and doubt that we'll see changes anytime soon, the average player needs creators like you speaking up for them and keeping the discussion alive. So thank you
I appreciate you being one of the only people talking about this from the perspective of an actual average player. One that pulls people they like and sometimes other ones that make their favorites better and want to use them without having to clock hundreds of hours in grinding or studying. I used to main monoquantum and Jingliu but had to give them up, if I have to give up Rappa and Yunli I might just quit, I don't like Robin or Sunday so I am basically giving up crit and summon teams now. My girlfriend already doesn't want to play anymore after her "meta defining" Acheron and Kafka take more and more just to 3 star.
I’ve always been someone who is relatively unpicky when it comes to rolling characters since I also like to have a good array of options. When a game resorts to making me feel like I need to pull characters as more of means to an end rather than the enjoyment of testing out different playstyles, you begin to lose me as someone who wants to actively enjoy your game. Star Rail is the first gacha I’ve played where I seriously have to go into research on a character two patches in the future just to make sure I’m not gonna get screwed in the next 4-6 months and to me that’s not fun. I’ve been playing Cyberpunk 2077 lately and what that lad is doing just reminds me of some characters in that game being Arasaka mouthpieces. But in the end, the corpo don’t give a damn about you.
Mihoyo are the greedy ones, Pokke is just sucking them off because he wants to bully people into spending money and he thinks Mihoyo will reward him for it.
im still going to get the characters i like even if they get powercreep in only 2 versions, but yeah rn tribbie the new character is really op now altmost all people are saying "she is a must pull you have to pull for her" but i dont really like the chracter, i dont hate her bc well its a game but i dont like much for pull for her even if i plan to main herta, i can say that she will have powercreep in the end of amphoreus or even in versions like 3.6 after her first rerun. and i have to say that for the first time i worry for this kind of thing like in my 2 years in genshin i never have a problem with powercreep i even can say that i pass all the abbys and theather with a c6 xiangling (a 4 star character from 1.0 now we are in 5.3) meanwhile here what was the last 4 star? gallagher he is still a good healer but dint he relase in 2.2 or 2.3? like we are already in 3.0 and no new 4 star i think you guys get the point
another problem is that dps characters aren't the only ones affected by powercreep. silver wolf was tauted as a cheat code character in 1.1 due to the weakness implant but even if you ignore that half the dps characters nowadays having weakness implant/ignore baked into their kits, her debuffs simply aren't strong enough to compete with what the current harmony supports bring to the table and she's single target locked on top.
Agreed. I love SilverWolf but I can't use her much due to this fact that weakness implant just does nothing
Sparkle powercreep was the most offensive. Sunday is superior to sparkle, even on all of her "bis" teams.
@citizen4610 yeah I totally understand. My E1 sparkle doesn't even do as well as Sunday :( 😞
This … Supports being powercrept this quickly too is kinda scary although after Ruan Mei… harmony characters are seemingly having certain niches isn’t bad but… it’s a slippery slope we are already sliding down
@@citizen4610this is not the case for IL
A side note too is that players not having any alternatives other than a 5 star currently, we really lack 4 stars in the game and every banner feels like we only pull for 5 stars now, spending our resources just for 5 stars for the players who been playing the game and got all the 4 stars maxed out already.
The only 4 star preservation is march 7th and the only free alternative to Lanceblazer which is always sad. One can only give single target shield and the other gives minimal shield and is easily replaced by their dance alt because they're better support.
Can't agree more with this take.
I don't look much at leaks, but as far as I know, are there any 4 stars promoted at all in any way for Amphoreus? It looks to me like since almost all the characters are variants of HI3 characters or collab with FGO, there won't be any 4 stars? Even the new characters for 3.0 and 3.1 are just 5 stars (THerta, Aglaea, Tribbie, Mydei)...
@@nabilhusainimohdkamalulabr3088 There is one coming in 3.1 I think, their rate of 4 stars also seems to be stuck at 4 per patch cycle(1.0-1.6 had Yukong, Luka, Xueyi and Hanya, 2.0-2.7 was Misha, Gallagher, Hunt march and Moze)
True, WHERE are the 4 stars? I have a hard time believing that any of the unrevealed Chrsynos (?) Heirs are a 4 star. The last 4 star we got was Moze and the last Preservation unit we got was Aven, alllll the way back in 2.1. XDD
I hate how "pull for you like" has basically become bad advice for star rail. Don't have Robin? Ruan Mei? Aventurine? Huohuo? Sunday? Too fuckin bad, you wont be able to clear MoC without them because the teams that use them are super relevant and almost necessary to clear endgame content.
I got just both meis and hou hou, males are skip for me.
@@Paweł_215What the men do?
@Pawel_215 See, that's what I wish I could do as the opposite (someone who generally likes male characters more than female characters.) Personally, I didn't like Sparkle's character at all, but I needed to pull her to make my DHIL competitive. Topaz and Robin was okay, I like them as characters okay-ish, but the reason I pulled them was to support my Dr. Ratio (I pulled his LC), then when Feixiao released as a direct upgrade, I pulled her too, because she was just straight up better in the exact same team (before I had played the quest featuring her/knew anything about her other than her mechanics.) It's great if your faves are meta, but like many others, I find myself spending my jades on characters that make my teams stronger rather than for any lore reason at all.
This is exactly what I think, thanks dude.
Pulling for who you like is now choosing your archetype dps. Superbreak has three of them and you're free to choose any as they all perform well, other archetypes will be the same.
Its gonna be hilarious when people like this are gonna start shaming people for pulling firefly feixiao and acheron and then say they invested wrong because they didnt use fu xuan matrix of prescience to see the newest hottest dps that was coming out in 3.6
Love your videos ax (im still not subscribing to you)
LMAOOO
True, but meta is temporary, waifu/husbando is eternal. * ^ *) 7
@@AyazakaTaitobut in hsr shills eyes, meta is forever and people who pull for Waifu or husbando is stupid and greedy 😂
@@syidibuzzbuzz962 hmm dunno bout others but im fine with it, i played cuz i liked da girls anyway and since when i started playin at firefly banner i only pulled for 2 dps that is firefly and yunli, the rest is support :p and it's going fine for now and imma continue to minmax my 2 teams.
Strategies are fun to make
\( * ^ *)/
Powercreep is crazy in HSR , but what's crazier is People defending this shit
Triple the HP inflation of Genshin.
People should know that they ar playing a predatory gacha game.
Sadly next Patch in ZZZ will feature Doible characters again. Zenless Zone Zero is heading in the same direction.
@@silverhawkscape2677 Already got out of ZZZ after HSR. Only Genshin still got me in its claws and even then the powercreep is getting more and more annoying
@@jijidu69 Wouldn't call it Powercreep since Genshin Encourages you now to Horizontally invest in characters.
Getting a unit you like, and then getting told two patches later that its my fault that i didnt know they would suck is isnane to me. Like sorry i wanted a character i liked
If performance was the major reason why you liked a character, then it's difficult to believe you liked that character, and not just the fact that they performed. If this is the mindset, then I think you're doomed to always feel bad about your previous pulls
@@gameplayerone3917I had forgotten to put the rest of my comment in. Like i had it in my head and thought i had written it. Though my point is that, its insane to me that, people will blame others for not knowing that a character they liked would be worse then a character that came out 3 months later. And then by 6 months they are gonna be irrelevant, and have a hard time clearing the content that is made is just frustrating. "Just invest more" Im trying! Its just wired to blame others for liking a character, and then to tell them that "Yeah its your fault that they are bad. I have invested my character with the best gear with 0 off stat roles and mine still does great"
@@FakeStuff5 I really like Silverwolf, but I don't feel that same frustration because I knew what I signed up for. I use her plenty in the overworld and SU, and that's enough for me, and should be enough for other people as well. Even if she was powercrept 3 months later, she was still viable enough in those 3 months to earn back what I spent on her.
Oh my god, you don't have to always have the best units in the game, saying a character "sucks" after 2 patches is so laughably hyperbolic, please tell me one character who SUCKED after 2 patches.
@@obamna225sparkle who already lose to robin and now even worse with Sunday. So now who being hyperbolic here😂. Such a hsr shill you are
I think one of the issues here is 2 characters per patch. We are drowning in the new characters so we don't have enough time to save for the characters we like because the ones we like and are saving for get rerun with their new best supports, causing you to either get the characters you like or having to get a new character and skipping their rerun for Eidolons. We get way too many characters way too quickly to have time to save for the characters we want.
True, the word "limited" characters now became too predatory for hsr as a gacha games
Especially bad when they only give us the pulls to get to a single 50/50 per patch. "Just save up and pull strategically" is not actually that helpful of advice when sometimes your luck is just THAT cooked. Sometimes the game just hates you and takes you to hard pity with lost 50/50s for multiple banners.
Bingo. HSR going down a dangerous route
agreed! I really want a couple patches scattered here and there where they don't release new 5 star characters in order to give players a breather and let older characters have reruns. additionally, the amount of 5 star characters greatly outweigh the number of 4 stars, and that fact just does not sit right with me
@0rangess555 exactly. In Genshins 5 years they have a little over 80 characters. In HSR's 2 years we almost have 60
Mr.Pokke, the guy who earns his living and gacha pulls from viewers(players) has the audacity to call other players greedy when voicing concerns about powercreep. This guy's ego is just...
Unfortunately his mindset is also the type of mindset Hoyo would listen to consider it's also the one that they wanted from the first place.
What? All he said is that if your account is at a point where it cannot clear endgame is probably because you pulled for random units or because you were greedy and ran out of pulls so you couldn't pull for important units like Robin that will help you clear.
bro is so out of touch cuz of his oilers lmao
this is why I never trust HSR CC in general. I take their advice and guide with a grain of salt. If I found the powercreep to be too much I would just quit. The problem with gatcha games in general if you want significant change people need to stop playing altogether but its impossible because the game practices predeatory gambling tactics.
I watched a couple of Mr. Pokke video and I feel he is nothing more than a whale shill.
Never believe in a Firefly hater, that cinnamon roll don't deserve it
@@sct77 🤡 Nah, I'd play Qingque
I don't play Reverse1999, but I just saw how they introduced a system called 'Euphoria' that massively buffs older characters to the point some of them are even stronger than the current meta ones. No supports required, no extra investment on pulls, just a few easily farmable resources to unlock the upgrades. No creating the problem and selling the solution.
As I've seen a lot of people comment, let's stop blaming predatory practices on the consumers.
I keep seeing that game pop up in conversations like these. Maybe I'll check it out.
@@UltimateRed-bj7mo I've been playing it since day one. To put it bluntly, when I play Reverse 1999 I feel like I'm playing a game. When I play HSR, or any other Hoyo game for that matter, I feel like I'm playing a psy-op.
@@Satyr42 I see. I've been rather frustrated with hoyo games lately as well. Change of pace might be good.
Plus the game spices up game play with the first unit to act will be stunned in some stages. Some end game is just see how long you can survive.
Low rarity units have use like taunting Fool and aliEnT, Leilani is like Tingyun
@@Satyr42 Is it too late play Reverse 1999 now? 😅
They should make more bosses that encourage different playstyles then just pushing out a stronger boss that can be cleared by the new shiny DPS
yes i really hope they do and the banana boss would have been a good example here had he not been a rappa check ngl
that wouldn't solve much .
if said boss is only able to clear with specific style ,
you'll still have to invest and pull more character for specific boss , which might be worse than now .
@@Koyuki_Yukihime It's not like that, take genshin as a example:
X boss has disvantage against nightsoul
But this doesn't mean you need characters with nightsoul to beat him, in genshin is balanced to the point of even a weaker character can clear the stage with a good time
Unlike star rail that literally bring stronger characters then make the bosses even stronger to the point of older characters have to grind their a** to do a smoth 5 cycle , and then they create supports for that fit that new powerfull character to sell more and MAKE THE BOSSES EVEN STRONGER like wth
@@Koyuki_Yukihime pulling diversity isn't a bad thing that's what gachas are all about collection. Plus it would make older characters relevant again. They could do that by simply introducing faction buffs. Like when characters of the same faction are in a team they get buffed or bosses weak to said factions/paths.
They've been there, done that and been maligned for it though.
DoT is the perfect example, PF and MoC during its heyday were difficult for anyone who was lacking Swan or Kafka and a genuine beating for most who lacked both. In retrospect I retain my position that it wasn't too hard since you could brute force with hyper-carry teams (which anyone who didn't board the DoT express at the time should have excelled at given it was the only other prominent archetype around) and gotten by with the 4* DoT representatives if you had meaningfully invested into them previously even though the fewest myself included had.
Reception would be even worse these days, if they dropped a PF rotation that was this skewed towards DoT these days then the players who moaned about it during 2.0-2.1 era would be faced with the same issue and also be accompanied by a swath of new players that arguably NEVER had any incentive to roll for Kafka or Swan over stronger units they ran next to, i.e Robin.
It's too polarising to be a one size fits all solution and just replaces one problem with another.
Very well said. A lot of the arguments that Pokke makes as counters to why powercreep isn’t a problem seem to exist in a vacuum where extenuating factors are conveniently ignored. Blaming players for the game’s highly predatory practices is not it.
Plus, let's keep in mind that Mr. Pokke isn't relatable to the Majority of the HSR player base. He gets access to things most of us will never. Spending on what he wants is a non issue
He never even said powercreep isn't a problem lmao, you heard him talk about all of this for over an hour, left multiple comments on it and you still don't even understand what he said. This is ridiculous.
@@sct77 Bruh. His original post literally translates to “powercreep isn’t a problem unless…” That is literally saying powercreep isn’t a problem and putting the responsibility entirely on the player, calling them stupid and greedy if they feel like powercreep is a problem. I’m not sure what your interpretation of his point is then. I wanted to engage with your comments but decided it wasn’t worth it since there are better uses of my time. But if you understand his point so well, enlighten me please. You can’t just keep saying people don’t “understand” everytime the argument faces pushback.
@@Glast04 He said powercreep is bad but only turns into a problem (problem in this context means not being able to clear endgame) if you mismanage your account.
Is that simple. It's just basic reading comprehension but everyone is too emotional about powercreep to think straight.
@@sct77 Ok. Firstly. "Mismanaging your account" is an entirely different evaluation than "Greedy and stupid", as he said in his post, and doubled down on multiple times in the 1 hr 30 min video.
Secondly, no, powercreep does not "only turn into a problem" if you mismanage your account. It is the context in which the powercreep exists that dictates whether or not it is a "problem". Powercreep exists whether you "mismanage your account" or not, and you are forced to reckon with the reality of powercreep whether you "mismanage your account" or not.
You are just conveniently interpreting Pokke's wording in a way that paints his argument in the best light and justifies your defense of it. By definition, "problem" means, "a matter or situation regarded as unwelcome or harmful and needing to be dealt with and overcome." The reality is that Pokke did not identify what he meant by "problem" in this context, so the phrase "powercreep problem" is left to the interpretation of each reader. Whether or not Pokke intended for the "problem" to mean "an inability to clear endgame content", is known by him alone, and frankly doesn't matter. We can only discuss what has been stated, not assume what he means. And going by what has been stated, Pokke is wrong in the statement he shared in his post, and has reiterated in his video.
I completely agree. The "just don't give up on your DPS and team comp and continue investing!" argument irritates me so much. Cause you can only invest so much.
I have been playing DHIL since his first banner, cause I was absolutely in love in his character and his lore. I got his signature LC, then I built Tingyun and Hanya for him. I got FX for more crit rate in his team. I got Ruan Mei on her first banner not cause of break characters or DOT comps, but for DHIL. Later I pulled for Aventurine, mostly for DHIL teams as well. Then I pulled for Sparkle with her signature only for my DHIL team. You can say, I could've also pulled for constellations for DHIL, but at this point, I think there's no use. He got powercreeped by Acheron and later by Rappa for imaginary-weak enemies. Now, E4 DHIL with the best supports is as useful as an usual E0 Rappa team. And even his BIS, Sparkle, was powercreeped by Sunday. What I'm supposed to do? To pull for E6 DHIL, only for him got powercreeped even at E6?
I know, it's not always correct to compare HSR with Genshin, but in this case, it's not "Genshin could never" - it's "HSR could never". I played Genshin for freaking four years and I got 36* in abyss with Childe National. All of those characters are 4 years old. They were released in 1.x, and they are still more than effective in end-game content. Top-tier supports, such as Bennett, Nahida, Raiden, Furina, Kazuha and etc. are not powercreeped and very effective even with the newest characters. At the same time, DHIL and Jinglu were released only one year ago, and they're already powercreeped. And supports like Sparkle too. How you suppose to pull for characters, DPS or supports, if by the time you built their team and pulled for their BIS, they're already not viable?
I hate to see HSR going in this direction, and I'm not hopeful about the future. I'm sure as hell, that the brand new Rememberence teams will be powercreeped in the next years, and Acheron and Firefly will be relics of the past. I hope I'm wrong.
I agree SO MUCH with you my fella. This may be a hot take but, even if Genshin gives out less free pulls than Star Rail, long-term I find Genshin to be overall better? Because like you said, in Genshin characters from 4 years ago still clear content meanwhile Blade, DHIL and Jingliu from only 1 year ago even with their best supports are already powercrept :(
As a DHIL lover, this hit hard. Seeing this MOC I assumed he will just obliterate everything in second half, especially since I pulled E1 sparkle for him together with a Sunday and Fu Xuan. Guess what? 200k attack at most with 30 buffs on him. 9 cycles to clear. What the fuck hoyo?
But does Dhil still clear moc for you?
@@kajs867Now MR Pokke will tell you to get e1/e2 Robin and pull E2 Dhil if you want to “continue using him” lol it’s disheartening
@tipithedhedhistar4132 since Rappa was released, no. I tried his usual teams with Sparkle, I tried with my Sunday with signature LC and Sparkle, and never got 3*. 6 months ago, he was closing this content easily.
Saying that all of a sudden the right thing to do all along was to hyper invest is so dishonest. When the game started out there was a pretty clear notion that you will want to match the weakness type of the enemies which means your goal is to eventually have a roster that covers most if not all of the weakness types. You get Jingliu to have an answer to content weak to ice, DHIL for imaginary etc. because they only really perform as expected when the enemies are weak to their element and don't have higher resistance. This was good because it meant there is room to sell a large number of characters without directly powercreeping, everyone would just get their time to shine. Nobody could have predicted that hoyo would throw all this out of the window and start releasing Character after character that either ignores the weakness types or implants their own while also making them do so much damage that they make having Jingliu, DHIL and others completely redundant as they outperform them even in their best scenario. That just feels like shit and having to pull dupes or light ones just to clear in 10 cycles while the new shiny unit does it twice as fast at e0s0 also feels like shit.
Actually insane that the one unique mechanic they had(weaknesses) was just scrapped in the name of shilling a few characters. Maybe they've learned bc THerta doesn't have it, but she also does so much damage I don't think it matters anyway lol
@@fl2urthis is, potentially how they'll powercreep Therta down line 👀
LITERALLY. While collecting Kafka, Ratio, DHIL, BS, Seele, I always did it because Genshin heavily emphassised having a DPS for every element. Who would've thought that in less than a year, 5 units would not give a sh about weakness types? They could've just kept making a single target-blast-aoe DPS for every single element and we would've been happy, instead of pulling characters in spite of the powercreep.
@@fl2ur It wasn't completely scrapped, female players who prefer the guys still have to deal with it just like in 1.0.
The only guy with weakness implant is Boothill and his is worse than Silver Wolf's.
We still use Dhil and Jing Yuan and Ratio. Nothing changed.
blade is my favorite character, he's the only 5 stars that i pulled for his lightcone, i'm an f2p who lives by the genshin mindset who thought that the 4 star options are as good as the 5 stars, so when i pull for a lightcone it's out of love, it broke my heart to see him become absolutely usless overtime, no matter what i did he can never be as good as my firefly or feixiao, when i pulled acheron in her rerun i was so happy because i liked her playstyle so much, only to realize that it hasn't been a year since her release since she was dethroned from best in slot, i literally pulled for sunday and fugue not out of love, but because i thought ''oh, they'll let me clear the endgame content quicker'' and that's sad to say the least, i miss back when i could've used blade as a full on dps, and not a secondary dmg ouput if i have an empty slot, and now with the game's 8 banners mindset, and having very good units that'll make significant downgrade if i don't have them, combined with the fact that i'm f2p, i started to believe that this game is for pay to wins at least
I also got Blade and LC. I hope hoyo will make him viable again
@thesparklegirl3236 same
I also got his cone, and holy what a disappointment they made him last like nothing at all, I'm never going to pull for a DPS lightcone again
Blade is actually still viable but he needs alot of investment plus most of blade main has it wrong you need Blade E1 with secret vow not his LC. My E1 Blade E1S1 Ruanmei E2 Bronya and E1 Huohuo is still able to do 3,4 cycles MOC12 when enemy is weak to wind(except for the new wolf that thing takes me 8 cycles💀) but yea playing him and older units feels terible even if i could clear the content.
@@bikshrimp i said i'm f2p bro, the amount of the investment i have to do just so he'd be decent is unreasonable, hence the point of the video
Thank you so much for making this video. It's not greedy to want your favorites. That Mr Pokke be like "how dare you pull for the characters you like?"
That is literally the exact opposite argument he made in the 1v4 debate on livestream today. Pull your favorite character. Make sure if you want that favorite character to 3-star clear endgame content pull based on said characters needs.
If you want to pull for the sake of pulling or because waifu or husbando and are incapable of clearing endgame as a result. And this is assuming you even care about endgame in the first place since only 8 - 10 % of the player base play MOC12 anyway. And casuals who do not grind the hell out of game to get the max amount of pulls per patch, nor do they care about endgame. Then you as a player made your personal choice on what matters to your individual game experience of HSR. Also remember every new character will be meta, as the most significant thing to performance of a new character is Turbulence Buffs which multiply the rate up characters performance by a factor of 2X - 3X.
Dont have the dream to clear content also bcz u are dumb for thta and as a f2p i am saying that.
While its true that Pokke's delivery was a bit harsh to an extent, but that's not his point. You are free to pull whoever you like whenever you like, however, don't expect them to perform at the same caliber as the new shiny things. It just boils down to a personal decision to stick with your favorites or optimizing your pulls in order to stomp the endgame. And being a gacha game, that power creep is basically inevitable.
The way things are developing, Hoyo is basically telling us you can't have both. You either sacrifice your favorite or go all in on them for the extra 100-300 jades. And frankly, its their nature as a company to do sh* like this. It's not unexpected, its just happening at a faster rate because of the 2 new units per patch, and those who have attachments to the characters will ultimately feel frustrated because of the power spikes not only cuz their mains can't clear, but cuz the newer ones do better. That's fair, I've certainly felt that seeing Jing Yuan being outperformed by everyone. (he's still inferior to other DPSS even with churchguy)
But what can I do lol? I can't expect every character to be able to ABSOLUTELY DOMINATE every single patch. Especially with all the newer gimmicks and sh*. The new will always be more busted than the old, most especially for DPSs.
It's not greedy to want your favorites, what's greedy is expecting said favorite to be META and always be META.
(Sorry for this, I agree that the powercreep thing is getting overkill. But it's also true that it is possible to work around it as F2P, albeit at a steep price of abandoning your favorite or vertical investment around their achetype. I understand that this not for everyone, which is why I said it is a decision. PF,MoC12,ApoC are optional, though it is a shame that they're turning into some kind of paywall.)
@@SOSmania what's thta??
@@XenonDante🤡
Dread it. Run from it. The Honkai powercreep curse has arrived.
I agree. DHIL is is fave I got his E2 with lightcone and all his best supporters with their lightcones and he still struggles with the content.
And now The Herta is releasing and Dan's E2 is in her base kit.. Makes me sad.
Can't wait for Castorice xD
@AsunoWa To be honest me too. She will work better with Sunday.
And she'll likely be power crept in 4.0
@@safffzz3636 if she wasn't powercreeped un 3.6 already.
@@safffzz3636she prob be powercrept by phainon 😭
Next: get his e6 🔥
I think Hoyo was used to higher profits. Powercreep is a short term strategy to bring profit but in long way it repulses the players.
Regarding HSR I still remember Zajef prediction - its turn based game with 4 chars in 1 year there will be severe powerceep. Main reason is that they can sell you new chars based only in numbers and there is practically no skill expression.
which is kinda crazy to me, i would argue genshins slow powercreep is one of the reasons the game did so well, there is a reason hu tao, a 1.x character, is not on the upcoming chronical wish. she is a character that aged really well trought the years despite being twice powercreeped and is very popular, she is still worth the solo rerun banner for hoyo. Meanwhile Acheron, this games raiden mei, had nowhere near the sales her rerun was expected to get. its already acepted you dont bother with dps reruns in hsr. feixiaos rerun is imo a big bait because content has been shifting to favor aoe, i dont think she will do well during early 3.x at the very least
@@bea7038 I never played Genshin myself, but I've heard plenty about its slow power creep. So when I started playing HSR back in 1.0, I had hoped for something similar. I guess I was wrong. I feel very much disillusioned these days. :/
@@venn2001adsome of genshin's slow power creep was definitely a mistake from over or under tuning characters (all the 1.0 4 stars that still see heavy use) but because elemental reactions actually matter you can actually make a ton of teams and characters work, with only a few characters having a niche only they fill (nilou bloom, xianyun plunge, etc.)
And 5* weapons aren't nearly as good as starrail light cones, plus weapons are just generally more universal and just feel less necessary to pull for, so your pulls can all go for characters.
@@venn2001ad I still clear endgame using Keqing Kazuha Fischl and Yaoyao, not only that but the 1.X 4 stars are better than actual five stars.(we are in 5.3 now).
I didn't believe what zajj said at that time but bro really did predict the hsr meta spot on
The biggest problem is that the meta shifting way too fast and older unit can’t have a way to keep up. Like superbreak meta, older dps units aren’t gonna keep up with someone like Firefly or Rappa. Or SW who was the only one has the ability to implant weakness even though RNG based on the variety of elements. Now everyone can either ignore weakness or implant it themselves.
At this point i don't want to further augment the discussion because i think what needs to be said has already been said. I just want to leave my thanks to you and all the other creators for voicing our concerns. We are all here striving for a better game experience for everyone and hopefully, we'll see those changes in a near future.
Thanks again, peace
These gacha games really need sidegrades. You can slow down powercreep by giving alternative teammates in each slot that only have a marginal impact on performance. This way we get more variety too. Pretty much all the time you hear people asking "do I really need x teammate who I don't like to play my favourite character?" The answer is pretty much always "yes", unless you're ok with the performance of the team dropping drastically. There's honestly so little variety between people's accounts, it's like we're all playing one of a handful of preset accounts with no personality whatsoever.
Maybe don't play gacha games? The characters aren't guaranteed u like most RPGs
@xenoemblem7 That's not a gacha game issue, hell it's not even a Hoyo issue. I play ZZZ, while we have powercreep but it doesn't matter because you can clear endgame with 4 stars
@@maughtayo but zzz also has the skill player ceiling to bypass
Hsr, u cant dodge etc so the kkey is to have the correct units instead of strategizing w the already available options
@@xenoemblem7 this is not a gacha game problem, but hsr problem in particular. hsr wants synergy between each member of the team and those synergies are formed only by small amount of combinations. you don't have choice in team building
I'm tired of Pokke running his mouth, the dude doesnt even play his HSR account on the daily. Only actually plays it for 0 cycle MOC nonsense. His account managers and his chat funds everything else for him.
fl2ur you hit all the points I resonant with man.
It's so easy for him to be a whale with other people's money.
Literally every video:
"1 sub for ___"
"5 subs for ___"
"10 subs for ___"
Dude begs for subs every video to make certain decisions. Like his recent Herta run in MoC. "1 sub and I'll save Mem." That's crazy
Biggest gripe about HSR since 2.X is how its a team based game but there is a "fixed team" for every archtype. Since 2.X their design philosphy changed. Every new unit perfectly fit the missing piece of the parcel and alternatives are a significant downgrade. Hence 1.X unit just falls so hard compared to their 2.X counterpart as they're just in a awkward place.
One of my favourite things about JRPGs like Trails (which inspired hsr) is the teambuilding aspect where we can be creative with our team and builds and everyone gaming experience is different. But its just so shallow in HSR since 2.X because I no longer have options. All the old units are a serious step down and the HP inflation makes them fustrating to use. It's aritifical difficulty and lazy design at best. "Skill expression" in HSR albeit minimal is largely in its teambuilding which is slowly being taken away. Most players end up running similar "flavour of the month" team which hoyo wants to promote. This makes it so boring especially since our gameplay options in battle are already very limited. All can be fixed if they just buff old units which is not unfair to ask given how expensive gacha is in this game. Not even 2 years in and majority of the cast are barely passable.
It's one thing if its a 1.X unique thing where we can say sure game was new, Hoyo didn't know how to design character kits. Moving forward, 3.X characters scaling will be similar to 2.X surely. But reality is, Hoyo has no plans to pull the brake but accelerate the powercreep. Just look at THerta kit and especially the eidolon creep (E2). Her kit is so overloaded with such bs multipliers its laughable how she blows every other dps out of the water. It really seems like an overreaction but its not to anyone that has done calcs with her. She is that insane and almost feels like bad joke. Soon content will be adjusted to fit this new tier of dps with older units suffering the brunt of it. The cycle repeats.
As a day 1 player, its just so disappointing to see how HSR decided to go about developing the game. I loved this game but starting to feel really disillusioned. Sorry for the yap guys :(
This is the big thing. I think all this war and drama has deflected from the real problem. The game is becoming less fun. It feels like a numbers and character check rather than a strategy and team building check. And like you were saying, it feels like we have fixed teams so there’s not much strategy to have fun with
@@itsdakingofkings2550 Yup 100%. People always argue in HSR, each characters only have 3 actions (Basic/Skill/Ult), game is for babies no strategy but its not true at all. Majority of "skills" lies in preparing your team. The battle itself is just executing what you planned. Old units had drawback which made them interesting. Yukong low buff uptime, Dhil drains SP etc. You can mix and match your units. My earliest 0 cycles were using Yukong, Jing Liu and Seele where tuning for each MoC was unique and you could use different supports for the same dps. You were rewarded for thinking instead of just being sold the solution.
It is teamcomp cherrypicking, but now compared it to running FF, HMC, Ruanmei and 1 sustain. The difference between you and others running similar team/autoplay is minimal. Difference largely depends on how much you wanna spend on their BiS team and eidolon. Play other units and the game penalise you with HP inflation. People will then tell you "skill issue, that's not how your meant to play the game, you need to run x unit with y or your bricked." Its ironic certain creators say this as any semblance of skills have become tied to whether you can pull x unit. Yes its a gacha game, but it shows why having teambuilding options is so important. Powercreep is a serious issue in a game like HSR and exacerbate the flaws in its combat system.
@@itsdakingofkings2550 You are right. I cleared this MOC with 5 E0S0, 1 E0S1 and HMC (6 cycles). But I am truly not having fun at all. I cleared it simply because i have the best tools available currently, not because I’m smart or my builds are OP 😢
The best part is Herta is only the first unit. They will get worse as we get to the middle of 3.x lmao
Heavy on that. Robin fitting FUA teams more than other teams because of her extra trace or whatever, while still being regarded as a "massive ATK boosting harmony that can fit everywhere" (true, still) is crazy. Same with Aventurine's blind bet stacking being increased by FUAs. Same with Acheron benefitting from Debuffers. Same with Jiaoqiu amping ultimates and AOE debuffing (literally inclining more towards a character he's never met in lore rather than his own general lmao) to the point he's seen as a weird choice in Feixiao teams and a staple in Acheron teams. Same with Feixiao benefitting more from FUA teams due FUA characters being the ones that charge her ultimate the fastest.....They're literally made from each other. Back in 1.X, Bronya was for main DPSes with Crit, and ASTA for anything else. God help the future version 3.X to have versatile characters but not so braindead overpowered characters like Aventurine and Ruan Mei, or Feixiao Moze Acheron with 30 thousand dmg increases in their kit.
3:40, this is the same argument for all those Topaz mains that are smug because they pulled in 1.4 with "we knew all along".
No, you didn't, its Hoyo that shilled for FuA and Superbreak for most of 2.X and it still took 194 for Topaz to have a full dedicated Follow up team.
Basically that, because you can't say the same with Silverwolf and Sparkle. Both of them also looked like they had a future archetype in mono quantum and other characters they'll work with, but those never came. Silverwolf was Acheron cope option till Jiaoqiu eviscerated her and Sparkle helps DHIL, E2+ Acheron and Seele I guess but Robin or Sunday do that better, and Robin was released like 2 patches after Sparkle.
@@blazikenfury8852sparkle haters love lying
I fell on my ass when I've heared the argument of "oh if you played since launch you'd have 2 guaranteed functioning teams even as a f2p by now".
Yeah, you know what those teams would be? Spoiler alert: not the teams that are now meta. We had no idea what will become of the game when we pulled Silver Wolf only for her to die in an agonizing death when the dev team was like "You know what? F@ck it, let's give every new DPS a weakness ignore". We had no idea what will happen if we pull for Blade and not get any supports for him for years. We didn't know Jingyuan will only become bearable when Sunday comes out 2 years later. How were we supposed to "invest smarter"? ESPECIALLY when CCs hype up every single unit in the game.
And WE are not greedy for that. We SPENT on these f@cking units, I think we earned the right to be a little f@cking entitled when these units are starting to age very badly.
Yup it’s not guaranteed that your two functioning teams would be the best choice. And let’s say for example someone had divine foreign and picked up E0 S1 Seele and Jingyuan, with Fu Xuan Huo huo at e0 and Robin e2 S1 Sunday e1 S1 and Ruan mei E2 S1 you are now stuck playing two teams for eternity which defeats the purpose of these games which is to collect and play with characters you like
Pulling units in 1.x made me realize just how bad the investment value is in hsr so for 2.x up the only dps I got was E0 S1 Acheron because I didn't wanna repeat my mistakes I made in 1.x and I'm still paranoid to pull in 3.0 so I'm just gonna save up everything for Castorice whenever she drops and whatever support comes my way
well as a day 1 player my teams are
Seele team - Seele, Fuxuan, Sparkle, Robin
Kafka+BS - Kafka, BS, Ruan Mei + Flex
got f-ed in the FUA meta - My only FUA team Himeko+Herta for the points thing
Acheron team - Acheron, Kafka/BS, Support+flex
Got f-ed in the Break meta - My only break team right now is Himeko + Fugue + mc+ Ruan
Yunli team - Still building, but is something like Yunli, Fuxuan, Sparkle/Bronya + Flex
lost the 50/50 of
Aventurine (both)
Sunday
Rappa
TopAss...¬¬ everything else skipped or didn't have enough to roll
The thing is that i rolled for those characters because i like them, when alot of them launched like Kafka she was incredible but felt balanced she made DoT work, Seele felt like what i expected from Hunt, i spend alot of time farming got some of their LCs and supports, but right now feels like it doesn't matter like Hoyo just want that all players to have the same sh*t, because new enemy just can be defeated with X character if you don't have it bad luck, meanwhile they create supports that are worth 3 characters and DPS that have huge %atk and weakness implant making bigger and bigger dps checks...
I can easily clear all contents on Auto full stars as a day 1 F2P
Doesn't mean the powercreep in this game is not a problem, honestly might quit the game soon if it keeps getting more and more ridiculous, on top of heavy decline on the main stories.
@@ryzhik9608 “how were we supposed to invest smarter”
To maximize the AVERAGE. Yeah JY is the unforeseen excellent investment, but the problem is HOW MANY of such outliers? (Spoiler: just him lol)
Investment plays with the average, not outliers
Silverwolf was one of my favorite characters when her first banner rolled around and i was so happy when i got her, but now shes basically useless
At least she looks pretty, sitting on the bench.
Same with me and Sparkle. Sparkle is strong but she might be the weakest harmony among the limited harmony characters and DHIL is getting powercreep.
@@Ao-vj9pzsparkle haters love lying
Pokke does not offer a solution, he offers a way to cope and calls everyone who says they don't like it greedy. Does it work? Yes. Is it enjoyable? To some people, yeah, but as you can see, most find it absurd. It is a very detached (unrelatable, if you will) take that completely ignores human psychology. This is a game, and the fact that this is even discussed is depressing. Imagine a new player, coming from yet another HSR ad on youtube that promotes blade (yep, they still do those a lot), only to find out, that if he wants the unit he downloaded the game for to compete, he needs to spend like 3 times more then if he were to use any other new unit. For oldies who already have him. Right, okay, you can manage that for sure, but for newcomers it's asking way too much. It's not some poor lad's fault he wasn't around when blade got released, he should be able to get him and play with him even now (without getting him, signature, a couple of limited supports and eidolons). Is he stupid or greedy for liking an old character? His cope does work, it's just that it is NOT a solution and there are still holes in this strategy
And for instance, if you are yet another idiot who says "it's a gacha game bro what did you expect", there are somehow gacha games, where you can clear ALL content with on-release units, without getting them e6s5 bullshittery (absolutely base units, not copies at all) like arknights. Gacha does not mean bad, gacha is just a way of monetization. Hoyo is the biggest company, if anything, they of all must be held to higher standards.
This is fundamentally a mindset problem. No matter how dressed up it is, it's ultimately gambling. The fun comes from the gambling, not winning, everyone knows you don't win.
The solution is to change your mindset, it's as simple as that.
@@gameplayerone3917except you do win, thats what pity is, gambling doesn't have pity. You pull to receive a character, not to pull
@@vnmememan8657 You do 'win' at gambling too, but you ultimately always lose. Same concept, different skin, and it's one of the main reasons why it's so addictive in the first place, and why you need to have the proper mindset going in to avoid catastrophe.
you can only cope though, you are playing a gacha game regardless. even if the power creep was happening slower, that doesn't change the fact that older units get less viable and need more investment to work.
take genshin, the game people say has had little to no power creep until recently... that's a flat out lie. like yeah you can use diluc and easily clear the current content, just as easy or even easier then you could back in 1.0... but his supporting team is literally 100% different, even his best in slot weapon has changed.
sure it was slower, but you literally need very highly specific 5 star limited characters, and in a game where they give out less then half the pulls star rail gives out per patch.
in my mind, its literally the exact same issue, its just happening in a different time frame, and causes as many issues for players, and a lot of the same issues, but its just spread out over a longer time so you don't notice... boiling the frog so to speak.
@@xXzman9000Xx if you cope, you admit that and not force it down everyone's throats as if you are him for saying, what ultimately is, not that hard to grasp
Im gonna say it
Defense Reduction/Shred/Ignore should have been an Exclusive debuff for Nihility characters only
The fact harmony characters have these is ridiculously OP for no reason at all since they also have the significancalty stronger playstyle of Ally buffing rather then Enemy debuffing and the better Lightcones
Blackswan e1 and JQ are good steps in the right direction but they STILL lose out because they are fully tied down to their niche
so true !!
First mistake was giving anything Mr. Pokke has to say the time of day.
When I rejoined in 1.5 the common sentiment from nearly everyone was that the game was super F2P friendly and as long as you had Bronya, Tingyun, or Silver you could brute force with any dps in the game hell I used Hook to get alot of scuffed MOC clears.
That is no longer the case now you need a team comp and you team comp has to be next to perfect or you are doomed. I have been smart with my pulls I was F2P for a long time I hard saved for Adventurine, Topaz, Robin even got Topaz LC. So when I finally got Feixiao I felt like all my hard work and saving had finally payed off. But the most recent MoC has put doubt in my mind and the reality that all that hard work will not last long.
I had envisioned a fantasy that now that I had my broken comp I could just pull purely for fun hell I even started spending recently because I thought I could get away with some dumb pulls and investing in For Fun stuff. I imagine alot of other people feel that way too.
And the thing that really sucks is from a gameplay perspective its only harder because they just jacked up HP pool, I could excuse Hoolay he is a boss certain thinks work really well again like counters and you could exploit that with Aventurine, Clara, or Yunli . But a 2mil HP Svarog??? he doesn't have any beneficial gameplay mechanics in fact every part of his kit makes it harder for your team to function so when a boss like that shows up with an elite with a million hp as well it just sucks because the content is just harder for the sake of making my characters worse and less fun.
And if my character just end up less fun at some point I have to ask myself why I am still here and I currently can not recommend anyone to pick up HSR because I don't want them to experience this level of disappointment and anxiety of having to be perfect with your pull and even when you are perfect you can never just take it easy.
Yeah the power creep has been speeding up. Power creep is normal but the rate that it’s increasing at is getting worse and I fear for what 3.x will bring
Current endgame sucks for single target dps (has been sucking for a while now because the hard shilling for the shiny new erudition units), but also I wanted to pull for Feixiao on rerun because I already have her bis team ready and now... I kinda feel forced to just wait for the new and shiny dps they're gonna shill hard in the future.
At this point pulling at reruns is just a joke, they might as well not bother
I was surprised when my E0S1 Feixiao, E1 Robin, Aventurine, E6 Moze took 5 cycles in the 1st phase. How are people who didn't spend money supposed to clear? Thankfully my E2S1 IL slapped with E0S1 Sunday but it made me realize this game is not for f2p anymore. I uninstalled anyways because i lose all 50/50s.
@ I didn’t spend same team cleared in 3 cycles
"Upgrading" your team doesn't even feel like an upgrade. Its more like taking them back to where they were pre HP inflation. Thats another reason why the powercreep feels so bad. Its not about getting improvements its about playing catch up
i guess i'll share my own experience as well.
i started playing in 1.0 and my favorite character is blade. i pour THOUSANDS of fuels into his build, pulled his light cone, got his e1 and e6 on rerun, bronya, sparkle e2s1, ruan mei e1, luocha... i really did everything i could to keep him up to par with the current meta at the time. and then i pulled acheron and her lc.. i did a run of her on moc 12 and had forgotten to level up her lc, i cleared in two cycles whilst my blade did in five.
over the summer i started playing less and less, and i'm happy to say i'm honkai free now! good luck to those still playing and hope you survive :')
So happy for you tbh; I'm f2p and currently saving for mydei and phainon, getting them and then saying bye bye too
fellow Blade fan here (second fave after JY), it took me so long to build him due to being unlucky with relics that by the time I was done he wasn't even meta anymore. I had Luocha, I had Bronya, he was basically doing nothing. Also honkai free now and I've never felt better lol
No way that with a well built e6 you are clearing slower than with an e0s1 Acheron. I got e6 Kafka (the rest of the team is e1 at most) and she still clears way faster than Acheron or Feixiao even on the MoCs designed for them (now they are starting to clear slower than before, 1 cycle instead of 0). I doubt that there's that big a difference between e6 Kafka and e6 Blade, 5 more cycles is a lot, 5 cycles is what it took me with e6s2 Kafka and e1s1 Huohuo (no one else) to clear a MoC 12 9 months ago
@@janbiel1221 Yeahhh, this one is reeking of a skill issue.
I have done MoC12s on acherons last rerun in less then 5 cycles E0S0
@thomasdean8047 earlier today I did current MoC first half in 4 cycles with super break e3 Himeko with a 4* LC (e0s1 Fugue, e1s1 Ruan Mei and Gallagher). So either original comment has got a big skill issue or e3 Himeko is significantly better than e6 Blade
Pokke calling people greedy when he has lost so much quality and humility from when he first started is honestly at best hypocrisy and at worst complete delusion.
This just proves that if you hang around the wrong group they drag you down, the drama farmer CCs genuinely changed how he does content because the CC of the gacha space honestly sucks. But Pokke accepted being lesser just for his own growth and he has the audacity to call his audience greedy, who accepted the worse quality drama BS just because they thought he was entertaining.
Then he has a ego trip because he thinks he’s “intellectually superior” to those who don’t spend their life planning around a stupid game that has predatory practice and also victim blames people who fell to gambling addiction… it’s honestly insane the lack of self awareness
I’m not giving CCs ANY a benefit of the doubt, they are their audience at best, saying off the wall BS when you have the control over so many people then back peddling like he doesn’t is genuinely insanity and lack of accountability that is shown by one other CC we all know who it is… that dude never shuts up about worthless drama because he is nothing without and seeing other CCs become more like shows how bad the CCs in this space are.
What’s even the point of discussing any topic in this community when it’s guided by people like that?
I guess people who talk fast like that are genetically and inherently arrogant with a superiority complex, lol.
is cc = content creator?
Insert problems, Sell the solution, Repeat.
The problem with that guy (the one that said greed and stupidity) is he live with ability to pull every single character and their copies DAY 1. For example ,he pulled E2 DHIL and now E2 Robin on the first day or release.
Worse take from the guy who never understand how powercreep affecting f2p. We slowly getting to the point of E1 or S1 is mandatory or else you will struggle. HSR player count will surely drop this year.
I don't think that will happen. Most people would like having a Saber or a Archer in their accounts
Who? @@Yawar25
@@Liauw2806fate charecters
@@Liauw2806they're likely talking about the fate/stay night collab, which as far as i'm aware, will feature Saber (Artoria) and Archer (Emiya) as their two new shiny dps. And that (unfortunately) will get people to spend the big bucks
Ngl when i was listenting to pokke his entire point of "invesment into a core achetype" completely falls apart if we look at dot
U pull kafka and her LC, shes the dot unit
U pull hou hou, good atk buff and energy is nice
U pull ruan mei and her lightcone, a very good DOT buffer
U pull black swan and her LC, a char that brings dot to meta
Then u pull robin and her LC, atk support that can subsititue ruan mei
U did every single thing RIGHT and invested in that team......and oh look its taking that team 7 cycles to clear
Dot clears Svarog in 3 cycles
tbf DOT is leaked to get a new unit in 3.0, as a dot enjoyer we'd have that to look forward to ig
Dot with robin does 2-3 cycles
My dot without any lcs and bs clears this moc in 7 cycles... And I havent touched their relics in months. If you have all these lcs and chars it wont take you that long. This is a bad argument.
@@blues6304 DOT deserved to have a support ages ago instead of the archetype being left to rot for an actual year. Are they really supposed to be grateful for crumbs of leaks for a unit that might come in the middle of version 3?
Destructibles in game need to start giving us jades
The day Acheron and Firefly get powercreeped… LOL
I’m already feeling it with this new moc
It's already happening with Feixiao and next The Herta and Aglaea. Herta does more damage in single target than Acheron.
@@nat6lbg440 Hold up......an ERUDITION character does more single target damage than the strongest DPS....?
Acheron without E2S1 is pretty useless ngl
That mr pokke video was so hard to watch... The mental gymnastics to say that take and then defend it is crazy
He’s probably being paid by hoyo to defend HSR. He was getting sponsored by hoyo through his content so I won’t be surprised
I think a thing that really should be highlighted the most is the speed of these things getting cycled out.
You can mitigate it with proper planning sure but you wont always win a 50/50 and if you lose one on a support for a character you like it feels even worse when that character struggles super hard. If you lost the 50/50 on Jiaoqiu as an Acheron owner it feels miserable as the character has fallen off hard without him.
And by the time you rebuild your jade stock to try again during a rerun, who knows where the meta has moved to by then?
I have an Ache team without JQ
Still can clear content easily on Auto, but I can feel the age when I see the gameplay.
I feel this in my soul, because by the time I finish building a character they've already been powercreeped. Like I enjoyed them for maybe ONE patch 😭 and then I'm struggling to clear content again...
it is insanely unrealistic to ask someone to spend all their jades on 2 teams with their best in slot support and investing in them, because the point of the game is to collect characters that you find fun and interesting, and being if all you do is focusing on investing in supports for a character like seele, then you end up not focusing on you seele, but on your e2 supports. Also, it is not a players fault for wanting to play the characters that they like. It isn't greedy at all, because the point of the game is to play your favorite characters. And it isn't like you can know exactly what is going to happen in the future either: like how is it the player's fault if we had no idea that acheron was 2 times as strong as Jingliu because no leaks came out on her until 2.0, and because we had no idea who was even going to be next. Calling players bad and greedy for wanting to play their favorite characters is insane, and because their is little to no way that we can "play smarter other than get good luck on our relic rolls and actual enemy attacks. I have been playing for over a year, and I have great artifacts on all of my characters, and i can still barely clear with my favorite teams. It isnt like zenless or wuwa where we can learn perfect rotations and combos to increase our damage by 3x. And speed tuning isn't the players problem either. Speed tuning is entirely luck dependent, because of relic rng.
saw a comment saying that mr pokke is taking the tectone route where every type of drama is good for him and kinda have to agree with all the recent shenanigans he's been in and it's such a big disconnect between him and an average player because getting a 5 star like and like any 5 star with their lightcone if even possible is beyond luxury for the like of them
also we always talk about dps powercreep, but let´s talk about supports powercreep. my favorite character when i began to play the game was luocha, i pulled him back on 1.1 and he was deemed as "must have" because he made everything easier, and then fu-xuan came in which i wasn´t affected because i pulled her as well and on top of sustaining the team she gave very meaningfull offensive buffs, then huo-huo came and well i got her as well because i liked her design but my point still stands she was still a better sustainer than luocha, then gallagher A 4 STAR GAVE OUT FOR FREE was able to be more usefull than luocha on top of having a niche, than aventurine came in and became the best sustainer in the game, then lingsha came and powercrept gallagher. I still love luocha and think he´s the hottest man in all of star rail, but i still use him only because of the fact i love him, since i have all the abundance and preservation characters. i´m just really bitter than they made a 4 star better than luocha, and i´m not here to say that i think gallagher should be weak, i´m happy they´re making good 4 stars but still it stings a little when the character you had to spend 90 pulls or more to get is surpassed by a 4 star. that´s why i think characters should had given kit redesigns in order to at least make them usefull, for example giving luocha´s ultimate a res-pen on the enemies or def reduction since his kit at the time was said to be a "mix between abundance and nihility"
Sparkle is living proof that support powercreep is worse than usual DPS powercreep as that weak DPS can still be save by new meta harmony but new meta DPS will use already meta harmony. Now, even Dhil wants Sunday more than her and the only DPS that left for her being only Seele and QQ and we already know how bad these 2 quantum DPS are.
Fellow Luocha mains
@@syidibuzzbuzz962 yeah also her crit dmg buff is almost useless on any new dps, since we have plenty of it in relics, lightcones, character's kit. Honestly if they just copied pasted bronya's kit and added the skill points, sparkle would be legit strong
i will always love my luocha
I guess it is sad, but it’s not like Luocha is useless. He is still works really well to this day. And you can clear content with him. You might not 0 cycle but you are clearing
Mr. Pokke has single handedly woke me up from my slumber to squeeze out a video because his takes were terrible. Thank you for this video. I agree 100%.
Sparkle is living proof that support powercreep is worse than usual DPS powercreep as that weak DPS can still be save by new meta harmony but new meta DPS will use already meta harmony. Now, even Dhil wants Sunday more than her and the only DPS that left for her being only Seele and QQ and we already know how bad these 2 quantum DPS are.
@@syidibuzzbuzz962 it's not really a support issue just a sparkle issue. The 50% action advance is the main issue. That's why bronya aged better
@dante19890 so you just put it like sparkle issues and not powercreep issues ok. Then why Sunday literally more so positive than he with S1. Plus, if you follow the leaks, new dps after the herta and aglea still best in slot with Sunday and have really bad synergy with sparkle so it's her issues. So why Devs not making a dps for her like every other harmony? I already seen so many people regret pulling sparkle thinking that there will be a DPS that best use with her but no you just got scam by pulling sparkle. Just ask anyone is sparkle worthy of pulling and the answer will straight up no 10/10 unless your are a Waifu collectors but pulling Waifu considering as greedy and idiots
E2S1 Sparkle haver here, was pulling her for my Seele and future Achebruh 🥲
And worse, I don't even like her lol
@@syidibuzzbuzz962 it's more of a kit issue. Sparkle never really powercreept bronya. But Sunday powercreept them both
@@syidibuzzbuzz962E1S1 Sparkle owner who 1 Cycled current Moc 12 with E2S1 Acheron and E0 JQ, E0 Gallagher. And yes i have also a E1S1 Sunday which is benched since his Release. Didnt used him once.
Powercreep is main reason why I stopped spending any money in HSR.
Treating game like excel sheet where you need to hyper optimize your jade funds doesn't sound fun for majority of playerbase. On top of obvious logic fallacy with it. Should I spend jades on X, what if Y release in few months or Z which I'm gonna like more etc.
Let's be honest, I know it's supposed to be "worst almost impossible luck", but getting 8 characters as day 1 player sounds incredibly bad. It's literally 2 teams, where there is huge chance that at least one of them barely works for X content.
Another point I want to make. HSR is not generous at all, which is common thing, I see online. Let's compare It to Genshin(cause people love to do this). HSR is literally releasing almost twice as many units with a little bit more pulls(Definietly not twice as much as Genshin), on top of powercreep being so much worse.
My rule when playing HSR :
E0S1 is the limit, no pulls for Eidolons. Get new characters over investing vertically, enjoy as much as you can. Never spend money on banners because of Powercreep.
If I can't clear MoC so be it. I've never tried to clear it. My characters are all lv.70 and I can clear MoC floor 9 and I'm happy with that
@@adnanbillychrysostome7003 🤝🏼 absolutely agree, I'm not going to give a game my money if they lock my ability to enjoy it behind a paywall
@ZaniWuwa they'll never stop doing it, money needs to keep flowing after all. We just need to stop playing the way they want us to play the game
The only time spending money on gacha games is tolerable is on monthly passes and nameless honor
@@Condensed_rock yes, that is the limit when you play Hoyo games
@@adnanbillychrysostome7003 I agree. Maybe my only exception is for that very special character (in my case, Ayaka in Genshin at C6), I will be very happy with a C0R0/E0S0. I rarely ever pull for 5* weapons and light cones. I try to claw myself back with great artifact/relic luck.
For me Jing Yuan is the best example of that. Most of his dmg is in the fua? Dw we made Topaz. Not enough dmg? Here is a brand new meta support ruan mei. You need to use his skill a lot to make stacks? We made Sparkle. Still not enough dmg? We got Robin now! And now Sunday. All of that just to keep him alive a little bit longer before another big pp dmg dealers take his place and supports and deal more dmg simply because all of these characters were made for them not for the general. So many investments, so much time passed bcs farming and the most importantly a lot of pulls spent and it will not be enough a few patches later since u've decided to invest in someone who's already "old"
To be completely fair, one could just ignore the highest levels of endgame and clear as much of it as they can. They would still get most of the reward jades, and while they would miss some, it's not the end of the world.
The issue is that it just feels bad to not be able to clear endgame. It's a bit like playing a single-player RPG and not being able to beat the final boss, which is required for the best ending, then settling for a worse ending. 99% of players would do all they can to get the best ending when finishing a game like that, and while HSR endgame is by no means the end of the entire game, it IS effectively the final boss (it's just a final boss that happens to change every once in a while).
But if you want to clear endgame, you need high numbers, and the highest numbers belong to the highest tier of characters - a tier that characters YOU like may not belong to. The argument "invest in your favorites and you will clear" doesn't work for me not only because of the points already mentioned in the video, but also because it's difficult to overlook one painful truth:
"Great supports are even better when paired with great DPSes."
Sure, you could give Blade - or Jingliu, who was the example in the video - the best possible support characters and the best possible relics. But I bet that if you gave the same kind of support to a top-tier meta DPS, such as Feixiao, you would end up with significantly higher damage numbers, as well as with faster clear times. It's difficult to consider that, then look at your favorite and not feel bad about your choice of character. You pulled the best possible supports for them, but you KNOW those supports would work a lot better if they had the best possible DPS partner as well, instead of... whoever you selected.
I also think an underdiscussed problem is that most content is tailored to the meta, including story content, and there are encounters whose difficulty changes massively depending on whether you have the right tool against them. I'll avoid mentioning specific fights here to avoid story spoilers, but suffice it to say, I think the bosses who were added later into the game's lifespan are significantly more difficult to farm for weekly materials than previous ones, because they were balanced at a different point of the powercreep curve. They have bigger numbers, they have more challenging mechanics, and when tackling them, you are far more reliant on a good support character from a friend if your DPSes aren't up to par. "Up to par" often meaning "new enough." And I say this as someone who benefitted from pulling new DPSes; I pulled Rappa, for example, and a certain Penacony boss became a joke, both in the overworld and in AS. Before Rappa, I couldn't 3-star that boss in AS. That's how much of a difference having the "right character" makes.
Except some of the story boss fights are tuned so that you kind of need an endgame team to get through them, or you're not completing the story.
@@watchwood That's the exact issue I encountered which was why I dropped the game. I was playing some of these bosses that were clearly screaming at me to have a Ruan Mei or Firefly and it was kinda ridiculous. The worst part was clearing them was required to build some extremely important characters. I only got as far as I did into Penacony due to my E1S1 Sunday. I pulled for him out of love, but it became increasingly noticeable that I would struggle tremendously the further I got if he was not there.
This sums up my frustrations quite aptly. Like as someone who did invest like multiple pities (4 5 stars 2 LC's no eidolons) into DoT cuz "i like Kafka" / "it was strong (at the time)" / etc. and feeling like i needed to drop it for this MoC for some random super break core I halfheartedly threw pities at "because they were modern supports" that did more faster and much more comfortably without much stress, being met with statements like "yup thats how it is wait for them to release a dedicated dot support" or "thats what you get for investing into dot" is beyond taxing.
Reason why hoyo has too powercreep is because their combat system in this game is way too simple and frankly bad, people say hoyo should add enemies that require strategy to beat but the combat system is too simple to allow any skill expression, 80% of the game is decided by your stats and half of the characters just spam their skill or basic every turn
Limbus Company is the opposite in a lot of ways
Thats the reason I quite HSR at 1.2. the combat was too simple and I spent my time watching yt while pc autocombats in background. wtf? Heroes 3 had instant autocombat 20 y ago.
I returned after an year and will stick until 3.0 then delete the game cos there are just better games.
One of my biggest problems with hsr combat is that the universal mechanics suck. One example being the break bar debuffs are way too samey with only the turn delay and the standard dot dmg if you dont count quantum, ice and imaginary debuffs. But the real problem is that 90% of the dps in the game dont give a shit about the dot debuff, so why does everyone has it? This is why characters have overloaded kits nowadays from my perspective
@@luizpedro5801i love elemental reaction 😂
It baffles me that people play a waifu/guyfu game, and treat it as a spreadsheet simulator-- but somehow it's the players that love and want their characters (and the time and money spent on them) to be relevant that are "crazy".
As a 1.x limited haver, it's genuinely grim how Seele and Jingliu feels ass to use compared to current DPS units
Had like 4 limiteds and their cones in the early years and it feels so tiring to use Seele and Jingliu compared to just having a subpar built FF clear in the same time
U know, even now there wud be many who'll justify this issue by saying it's a turn based game - HP inflation is the only way or as long as u clear within 10 cycles, powercreep is normal or its just 80/160 jades, not a big deal. But they all forget one simple thing, this is a casual game & a person shud be able to enjoy their favs char in a somewhat balanced team (a team of 4 healers is a bit difficult to execute).
Also, regarding investment - we forget that it's finite & limited - E6S5 as well as max relic rolls. If the trend continues, we'll need relics/planars/supports that buff dmg upto 5-10 times the dps' current value.
Pokke didn’t directly address his statement either. He went on to say people have made attacks towards him, then proceeded to double down. He didn’t offer any suggestions to the problem either. He baited and farmed the drama while insulting fans in the process
sounds like content creator content to me 😢
Very well said.
I think Pokke's comment was dumb but he's not the bad guy. Hoyo and any gacha devs thrive on FOMO and the players not having enough information to "choose wisely" on every banner. We get to see like 3-6 weeks ahead realistically and then the character is only around for 3 weeks for us to save enough currency (or buy it), and see whether the charact is worth it. That's just not enough time to seriously test every character as they come up to see how they'll do.
No one would have predicted Jing Yuan of all characters would be buffed continuously while Jingliu would not. No one knew that kits would get continuously overloaded/powercrept, like the difference between Tingyun and Sunday. No one even knows when e.g. Blade will rerun. No one has a crystal ball and it's impossible to keep up with every banner and it's all by design so you spend more.
It's a shame that the game just refuses to release sidegrades.
Every new DPS character has to be better than the last in some way or another and every new support has to be more broken than the last.
And I wouldn't mind this if the game modes weren't so absurdly biased in favor of the new shiny thing to the point that trying to complete anything without them is an uphill battle.
It's painful because it's like
1. Get the character
2. Get their team
3. Use the character in content catered around them
4. The content changes faster than character strength increases(no more brute forcing)
5. The content probably will outscale your character before you have their full team
On every point, except 3, t's the player getting screwed.
I honestly think the best way to "combat" powercreep is trying to cope with getting 33 or 30 stars out of 36 from MoC/PF/AS, as that lowers the power level required to achieve those goals, so you could continue to use those characters you care so much about. Spending hundreds of rolls on characters you don't really like just to make one unit viable, just so you can get an extra 80/160 jades every two weeks is just a horrible return on investment.
I don't like that solution, but it's probably the best way to remain relatively happy in a game like this. Let's just hope those parameters hold up a year or two from now, where it *is* possible to get all but the last couple rewards from endgame content without rolling for a bunch of units you don't like: missing out on ~200 jades isn't that big a deal, but when it becomes the full 800 every reset, it becomes a big problem.
Mate, until just a few months ago I literally never did any of the endgame modes at all. I basically didn't bother with keeping up with the game's "meta". Until I started the Hoolay Luofu Arc quests, where all of a sudden everything had much higher HP pools and was taking me literally minutes to finish random fodder mobs.
This shit is leaking into the story content and that's fucked
@@Reydriel Story? How bad at the game are you bro?
@@xenoemblem7nah they got a point, the Luofu mobs (especially hoolay) were brutal lol
@@Liauw2806I picked blade cause I saw wind weakness after a long time in story Lol. I was like Idk anything about this boss let's pick the most tanky dps and lol he was fun with hoolay in story 😂
@@Reydriel I pray to god this isn't true, either a joke, overexaggeration, or something 🙏😭
The solution to powercreep is to buff characters a bit whenever they rerun, so early players won't feel shafted for investing in their characters.
Something I really wish Hoyo games would try is take a leaf out of games such as FGO and Dokkan: Go back and buff old characters.
It's crazy that 5 star AND low rarity characters in FGO released in it's 1st year (now coming on it's 10th) can be among the best characters in the game even now. All because they go back and enhance the old units.
It would be so refreshing and be a breath of fresh air for all players, especially those that invested heavy early on. Imagine using a Seele now to 0 cycle the current MOC (for example). Limitless possibilities.
This company is terrified of direct buffs when it will only help them make more money. Everyone has their favorites, as you said. To know that you can acquire your favorite as a playable character, while also having them be strong on their own, or decent, is a good feeling. Every other gacha I play buffs their characters so they don’t fall behind, so while they might get new partners, they are still fine without them. When I first found out Hoyo didn’t buff characters, it already gave me a bad feeling of how they might run their games. I enjoy HSR, but I feel like what people said about the game in the past is coming true, the idea that the devs put on a generous facade, and now they slowly watch how much they can get away with in the game.
People will call you having skills issues of wanting weak characters getting buffs in this game. But no amount of skills can save a bad units such as silver wolf
I lost all of my 50/50s from 2.1 to 2.7, 5 times in a row. two of which were Feixiao and Firefly, so I didn't get them. I cannot clear content bc my 5* dps are Seele, Jing Yuan, Himeko, Jingliu and Dr. Ratio, only 1.X units. I am a support rail, I have every single harmony character bc I like to collect them. Now I am saving for The Herta, but what if I lose the 50/50 on hard pity again? what am I supposed to do, to try to clear content with Jing Yuan and Himeko? Bc the only usable dps I have are Ratio, JY and HImeko. Seele and Jingliu cannot clear content at all and its frustrating. Mr. Pokee says that we should plan ahead, but how could I know I would lose the 50/50 on hard pity for Feixiao? I pulled Jiaoqiu right before using a guaranteed bc I have been waiting for him since the first leaks of him being a pink foxian healer. Why would I play if I don't get my faves???? the whole point on clearing content is to get jades to get more characters. What is the point in chasing the meta if I dont have fun???
Another powercreep that affected me was the sustain powercreep. I had luocha and Fu Xuan, yet I still had to pull aventurine bc those two alone couldn't keep me fully alive or give me enough damage to clear content at all.
I seriously hope they start giving more jades and stop releasing new characters so frquently. Two new 5* per patch is absurd, and is the reason why the meta keeps changing so quickly besides from the clear lack of care when they make characters. They simply add an absurd multiplier even bigger than the last and call it a day.
Cleared fine with JY 4*TY Sunday Luocha 1st half and Ratio Sparkle Pela and Aventurine 2nd half though.
I lost 6 50/50s out of 8 between 2.0 to 2.7 at 75+ pity. I took 8 cycles this MoC and that's because i spent money on E2S1 IL back in 1.3 paired with E0S1 Sunday. My E0S1 Feixiao, Aven, E1 R obin, E6 Moze with great builds were struggling for some reason.
@@Zendelxex Good now try without Sunday 🤡 Imma see that "fine"
@@dvornikovalexei and why should I? Will you also try and clear with your Feixiao without Robin?
@@Zendelxex Sorry, may I ask if u have eidolons or signature light cones???? like genq makes me curious
I typically start a gacha game because I like a specific character's design and really want to pull them. Take this game- I started right around 2.0 because I particularly loved Sparkle's design. Now Sunday is almost a straight upgrade to Sparkle in most scenarios, and we're only in 2.7.
I love HSR, but it's not gonna survive if it continues to make peoples' favorite characters irrelevant within a year.
At this point, i already accept the reality that if i want to get my favorite character, i must ignore full star end game content. That's all about it. By the end of the day, this is just a game and i want to enjoy it, not to be depressed because of it.
The term "HSR is more generous than Genshin" didn't age well. HSR is significantly more expensive.
Powercreep becomes a real problem if the game turns into "pull who you need, instead of pull who you want."
Genshin despite having powercreep, it's still a game where you can pull who you want, instead of who you need.
Theater is clearable if you're a long term player even if you only pull who you want, abyss as well.
The argument of keep investing worked for me in Genshin with C3 Raiden who I'm still using every abyss reset to full clear with since 2.0, despite being weaker than modern c0 dps.
I have no firsthand experience in HSR with this so I can't comment on that.
Heck, Gaming and Heizou are still really solid 4 star DPS. You can literally wipe abyss with just 4 stars
Despite having one of the strongest characters in the game, which is Neuvi, I still enjoy playing my Wanderer, Xiao, Cyno, Tighnari, etc. Literally units from years ago, some of which were labeled as mediocre even upon release, and one is a standard 5 star. Of course I have good and invested supports, but most of those supports are also either old units or 4 stars. My Wanderer is still strong at C2. All of those characters are still good, and I don't even yet have Xianyun, Furina, or Xilonen. That's how good those older units are. DILUC got an absolute blessing of a team with just Furina and Xianyun, very universal supports that can fit into a lot of teams and change your gameplay in fun ways
We have none of that in HSR. Break is the closest we have to a team that's good with mostly 4 stars, and which can turn any character into a break unit (Break Himeko for example). That's about all. It used to be generous, but now it's more like hideous. I genuinely enjoyed HSR when I first started playing, even though it was just moments before Acheron's release. Even upon her release some units were still good. I could easily clear content with my Dr. Ratio, but now I can't even do that. It used to be generous because they let us breathe between new characters, the endgame content was much easier (used to clear AS at maximum difficulty, can't even clear difficulty 3 with full stars now). It used to be more generous because the rewards we were given were enough to let us get at least some of the characters we wanted. Now it's near impossible, and with bloated difficulty of endgame content, getting jades is becoming harder and harder
Literally, have been using Childe for years and he still clears
I think part of why people like Pokke are out of touch with the reality of the majority of players is just the fact that these people have the funds to pull EVERYONE. They'll make their little jokes about it draining their wallets, so relatable! But the fact is that a lot of big name content creators have almost every limited 5* in the game. That's NOT going to happen for most players. Most players have a budget. Most players aren't making money via content creation. Most players aren't getting twitch donations to pull for certain characters.
But this reality is often lost on bigger names because it's different from their own reality of having everything.
I like to watch these types of videos to feel better about myself losing 50/50 to bailu for the 7th time
one thing I want to point out, is that main story HP inflation /powercreep also exists. But as I can best recall, in every significant combat-related story mission, there was always an additional support mechanic that would allow teams to catch up (but not necessarily all the time, think back to the tik-tok Aventurine Boss fight, the only handicap was the ability for 6th grade reading). Even our previous combat events, although we got pretty much nothing recently, always had a way for teams to achieve the bare minimum/full requirements. It was only me and other try-hard sweaters who aimed for S or SS-rank with then-meta-pull teams.
All your rant is still valid though, but if someone wanted to make the conscious decision to completely cut out the 3 endgame modes from where this rant originated from, then the issues currently present have a very low chance of ever rearing their ugly heads in other combat content of HSR. But even with that, the FOMO, the Sunk Cost Fallacy, and all sorts of normal human emotional responses to missing out on lost opportunities will still be there, just not as immediately present for us now.
I feel this video because i want to be one of those guys who invests like crazy in one character (Firefly) to keep her relevant but i'm afraid because she will fall off one day although at least in my case she's had a great run (she's my strongest DPS at E2S1 after like 6 months of her release but maybe the fact that i keep minmaxxing her relics and keep pulling characters for her team like Lingsha or Fugue are helping more than i'm willing to notice) so it keeps like trying to run on a ground that is constantly collapsing and if you slow down at all you will fall into the void but eventually you WILL fall because you can't keep up anymore no matter how hard you try
And from all this powercreep discussion not one person has mentioned the second biggest contributor to powercreep… the god damn relic system
Edit: also forgot to mention how Hoyo nerfs story mode immediately after a few complains of being difficult (they even went out of their way to make an easy mode) but any difficulty complains towards endgame goes straight to the spam folder
I started crying when I heard the pain in ur voice and the bgm really didn't help in holding back my tears.🥺
"you can't just keep shilling jades for supports" huh... That's... A good way of putting things. HSR doesn't really give us any solid all-rounder 4 stars the same way genshin does, heck there's probably other gachas that are nicer with their 4 star cast. This is something I noticed, every clear I see from my friends and the characters I bring are all 5 stars. 4 stars are very rare to see, and when they do show up it's usually Gallagher or Tingyun.
I know people joked about genshin could never... But honestly, genshin could never make me pull for a 5 star I don't like. My only Pyro DPS was Xiangling for nearly 2 years until Lyney came out and his BiS team at the time had Xiangling in it. In HSR, I was looking at Sunday Banner right in front of me, knowing he's Jing Yuan's premium support... But I just couldn't get myself to do it. I don't like Sunday. My E0S1 Jing Yuan will have to stay benched against my will, but I don't want to pull for a character I don't like. It feels bad that in spite of my investment into the game, I will never be able to full clear any of the endgame modes. But I've simply accepted HSR to be a greedy Gacha, there's simply no funny T21 run with +10 Halloween Nils or 36 star Abyss with Heizou Taser in this game 😔
So MoC was doable for me as a casual not up to date, but AS is just undoable for me. I wish more would focus on adding more synergies that elevate older characters.
Hell, let me *enjoy* investing in older and weaker characters. Make it 100% on the 5-star banner and make it cost 100-120 jades instead. Investing just isn't fun for those weaker characters and I feel like I really want to invest in the modern best. Which is a STUPID sentiment for a single player game
it's honestly so sad because seele is my favorite character in the game, i liked her even before starting, but i know that when she has a rerun i'll get her, build her, give her a team, and then continue to use my acheron because seele wouldn't be able to clear anything.
I forwarded this in the survey. To buff the old characters. If many players doing this, maybe the dev will do something.
@@kokoro212 I doubt because it's hoyo
to all the people that disliked the video. can you explain your point of view. i feel like all of his points make total sense. What do you see that we dont see?
I mean something that is important to consider is that even with seele, which from your own video can be easily considered one of the worst dps in the game, there are people out here clearing the current MOC 12 with e0s0 seele, e0 robin, and e0 sunday. Like you don't need dozens of eidolons and mega whaling to make these characters work, you need to do smart pulls, and *invest* . EVEN seele can clear moc 12 within 10 cycles if you pull for good characters, and I fee like expecting to pull only DPS characters with 0 synergy, refusing to pull any supports and then blaming the game for not being able to 3 star MOC 12 is frankly ridiculous. MOC 12 (and all the other end game modes) are just that, *end game modes* . They are designed for the hard core players who want a challenge, not for the casual player who just wants to pull all their favorites and doesn't want to think about the meta. If we take out clearing the hardcore end game content, that player who wants to "do well with a team of 3 dps" can do that easily in simulated universe and the story, along with traditional exploration. I understand your sentiment but getting mad at the developers because the worst 5* dps' in the game only work when you pull good supports (no eidolons required) just seems nonsense to me. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You *CAN* make bad characters like seele work and clear the content *WITHOUT* whaling, but to do that you have to care about the meta, and pull the good meta supports like robin or sunday. If you want to ignore the meta and only pull your favorites, then why are you trying to do the pinnacle of end game content? the difference between a 20 cycle run of MOC 12 and a 10 cycle is literally only 60 jade. If you're this theoretical casual player who doesn't give a damn about the meta and just wants to pull the pretty faced characters, brother it's 60 JADE. Getting mad at seele only being able to clear MOC 12 with good e0 supports is akin to getting mad that a single target character like boothill is literally unplayable in pure fiction. Each game mode has it's own meta, and if you ignore it you won't be able to clear the pinnacle of that content. With that in mind there is absolutely *nothing* stopping you from getting like 80-90% of the seasons rewards in spite of ignoring the meta, as MOC 10 and below is a literal joke to clear if you just *invest* in your teams. Keep in mind this is a *gacha game* and a free one at that. Wanting to get every character you want for free and having them clear the absolute highest difficulty content without having to think about the meta whatsoever is the *definition* of greed that pooke mention IMO. With all this in mind I don't deny that hp inflation is pretty rediculous in this game, and annoying to deal with, but I completely agree with pooke that if you pull smart (don't ignore the meta breaking supports when they come around), you can 100% play this game f2p. EVEN if you pulled seele as your first teams main dps, if you played smart and didn't skip all the insanely good supports that everyone was saying *DO NOT SKIP UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES* , you can clear MOC 12 without insane eidolon investment. Maybe the occasional light cone for a support if they're super busted like sundays, but that's all you'd need. If you want to make a dozen teams with the characters you like, go ahead and do that, but wanting that to ignore the meta and spread your resources poorly while having your teams capable of clearing the *hardest content in the game* intended for the hardcore players is just frankly ridiculous, as even if you didn't foresee the future and pulled some of the bad dps character who used to be meta breaking, you can still make them work with proper pulling of supports
TLDR: Have EZAs like dokkan that buff older units, add more mechanics and animations like active skills so the game isn’t just skill skill ultimate boredom.
Stay with me really quick. Dokkan is a game that has minimal skill expression and gameplay but it excels in animations and you are able to run different teams and still clear content. This game could be more fun if they added more mechanics or even animations like active skills or intro animations(idk how) than just skill ultimate skill ultimate etc.. For heavens sake dokkan has EZAs that give old units an omega boost(most of the time) FOR FREE after you beat it’s event and they still always hit top grossing no reason for greedy hoyo to not buff older units..
Dokkan Majin Buu Saga team rn is made of like 80% EZAs. Units that are 3 years old or more and they perform BETTER than newer units.
This is the way imo.
Make traces/ascensions for old characters. It's that easy. Multipliers are a problem? Now you get level 12 traces that massively boost the %.
Make new unique traces that give new abilities: I play Jingliu, make a trace that for every point you use in her enhanced state she gets + X% damage X times. Make Seele get stackable buffs for every kill she gets. Also, with this, you'd make an event for it, like a side-story quest for the character with story.
It would be cool af!
I feel this deeply and have nothing to add aside from a lil bit of humour - that jing Yuan is the only "shit" unit that was worth not giving up for since he became "meta" now (and I love him). Can't wait for him to be probably unusable in 3.1 or something. Literally Fuege came out and she's lovely but then I ask myself, am I gonna pull a support for my Boothill when they're probably gonna kill break meta in 3.0
That was my take on Fugue as well. I wanted to pull her for Boothill, but atp it just doesn't feel like it's worth the investment when someone like Firefly or Rappa can do it easier even without Fugue, and especially because we're going into new meta and there's just no point in investing into poor Boothill. I enjoy him a lot, but I have to bench him because he's just struggling so hard. But at the same time I can't, because all of my other units want either Sunday, Robin, or Aventurine, and his team is the only team that needs completely different units. So I'm just stuck using an archetype that is going to be outdated in a couple of patches if not in the next one, and I'm having no luck with Firefly so far
@DeadVoxel I don't have FF or Rappa or RM so getting Fuege especially E1 for Booty is amazing and he is an amazing unit if you do have his supports and I do like him enough that I pulled Fuege for him anyway, just with no hopes for the future lol. I know I won't ever catch up with meta so I'll just keep pulling my favorite characters and that's it, current MoC solidified for me that even if you have perfect teams, well built, sig LCs etc, if you don't have specific ones for specific MoC you're shit out of luck anyway so ehh I really can't care anymore
@@Szczurzyslawa yeah fair point. It just feels awful to play single target characters nowadays, the game is punishing you for it even outside of MoC
And congrats on getting Fugue! I would've considered but I'm quite literally too broke for that atm, but I have seen that she's good with him. Perhaps in the future
@@DeadVoxel Yeah ST feels awful but tbh Boothill feels like the only ST unit that can brute force stuff with it. And thank you! I actually won both 50-50s and got her E1 on "accident" so 😭at least Boot got his perfect support, gotta enjoy it while it lasts lmaoo.
@@Szczurzyslawa heck yeah, congrats again! He's eating well now
And that's true, he does kind of brute force through it. I've easily reached over 100k-200k with him from his enhanced basic attack alone. It's very good against boss and elite enemies, but when it comes to multiple enemies... yeah it gets tricky. Another thing I struggle to figure out still is how to sustain him, because his base stats are pretty low, so he gets easily killed a lot
0:49 it's possible for SOME Seeles. Not mine tho. I'm strugling with myngood teams already. I don't care what some youtuber or nolifer can do with a powercrept unit. They play this side game more seriously than what most people put into their jobs. Some guy can clear all dark souls games in a row without geting hit once... does that make dark souls easy? Not for me.
i feel like what would solve this problem is imaginarium theater in genshin- not only does it motivate you to build your characters of the selected elements but it also makes you explore some team comps. this is probably a stupid argument but if they introduced an endgame content where you have to use most of your characters then it will probably solve like idk 20% of the problem? it will also motivate you to pull so hoyo would be winning.
another thing that would solve this powercreep problem is if they slowed down on the next new dps release, atleast give the current dps a chance to shine and work on more preservation + abundance + new path characters and mechanics.
I actually talk about this in the video releasing next week! You're right that it probably wont really solve the problem, but it would be something hoyo could do that makes it less annoying, because every character would have their place.
No need to invest in characters, just pull for E0 Herta, knowing she will be powercrept by Castorice after 2 patches. Don’t even bother with team building. Just use any supports you already have
Once again this is the time where I want to bring up FGO, because in terms of investing in a character or team it is miles better than HSR.
First off, both have gacha related investment where rolling multiple copies of the same unit can improve their abilities. The difference is that in FGO the NP level upgrade is mainly to upgrade one aspect of their kit numberswise, rather than unlocking a mechanic or passive like in HSR.
People may argue about Append Skills, but the recent changes made it so even NP1 can unlock multiple key skills with enough Bond grinding.
Secondly, the investment options in FGO is much more varied than in HSR. FGO has:
- Grails, Fous and paws which raises the overall base stats
- Command Codes which adds new effects to each of their normal attacks
- The aforementioned Append Skills that offers buffs that you can now pick and choose freely after unlocking it
- Class Score that gives even more passive buffs to a whole class(Like a buff for all your Destruction/Hunt/Erudition units instead of just 1 unit)
- And this year we are getting Bond CEs turned into passive. For certain units, it's like having parts of their signature LC become their base kit if we're talking in HSR equivalent
And no, Artifact/Relic substats optimization is a pretty shit example of investment to improve your units due to the RNG nature of it
Thirdly, the SQ/Interlude upgrade system, which can buff certain skill or NP of a Servant, which can be a numbers upgrade and/or additional effects that can change how the unit plays significantly. HSR obviously has none beyond adding new supports that can help the old units or stronger artifact sets, but they can never compare to the newest units that can also utilize those new things
All these makes the powercreep in FGO less of an issue, since some newer units are indeed better than old ones, but you never really feel pressed because with enough investments your old characters can still crush the latest contents in FGO.
That said, both games still have the same issue of having certain supports unit being borderline mandatory, example Castoria or Ruan Mei. An Arts team or a Break team without one of them is very different even if you can cope with the other options.
Also, another thing
It's not related to the characters, but the way FGO allows you to borrow a unit from your friends to fill in a spot/role helps immensely in teambuilding and alleviate the need to roll for new characters all the time to keep up, like we're experiencing in HSR
If they actually let us use a friend support unit for challenging endgame contents in HSR, I'm pretty sure people won't be complaining about powercreep as hard as it is lately.
Will that just make them borrow the strongest E6S5 characters? Obviously, but I do think it's better to have that options rather than the barely used Support system we currently have in HSR
Insanely good video. Im a new player of honkai, only been playing for like 2 months, so i havent been much affected by this, but i still can obviously see the issue the game has in an outsiders perspective. Of course its a case of how the game functions as a turn base RPG that hp inflations is so prevalent, but even then the amount of change in powercreep is still clearly ridiculous and way too over the top, and its only done so people pull for more modern characters out of necessity rather than interest in personality or actual kit. Small amounts of powercreep is not a bad thing and can be even considered a good thing in some cases {just look at how many people wanted xiangling to finally be powercreeped in genshin} but still, there are levels to this and honkai just goes way too far only for the sake of money.
You cannot imagine how bad players feels about powercreep who since launch start playing hsr. I guess pulling only the character that I LIKES is the wrong approach to play this game. But why in other gacha game I don't have this problem. Easy because they amount of powercreep is not as much as hsr.
This conversation always brings up the different sides of the community. Even though I spend a lot on this game because it’s my personal favorite Gacha game, I always see how crazy the power creep even with every single good character that I own, like E2 Firefly, or E2 Acheron, I struggle with the content sometimes. It is very apparent and I do wish that the power creep for this game slows down severely. I know it won’t but I can only hope. I want to be able to play this game without the need of getting every single character because I didn’t look at leaks or didn’t plan harshly on the teams
How does E2 acheron and firefly struggle? Unless you're using them solo maybe lol. If my E0S1 Acheron can clear all content I don't know how E2 would ever struggle. Not disagreeing with your thoughts about powercreep though, I definitely think it should slow down
@@leightonx7430 Well, I should've said that I'm not really struggling with E2 Acheron and Firefly, but it feels like it after every update. Like it feels like every single MoC, or ApoS, or PF make these characters feel worse and worse, even if it's only slightly. For me personally, its feels that way. I should've rephrased it, but overall I'm not "struggling," more as noticing the curve of not doing better than last update
This is where genshin, and I say this as a hsr player, beats hsr. Powercreep is much more manageable. Is it there ? Yeah let's not sugarcoat it.
But hot damn if I want to beat the abyss with my diluc team I fucking can. I can't even imagine pulling out my blade or my jingliu again now against current moc.
And I think they are the coolest looking characters in the game.
Seeing them barely hit 300k while my acheron (i love her but still wtf) dishes out 1 million twice per turn is depressing. And now she's gonna get completely powercrept in the next few months.
Another very sad thing imo is not seeing 4 star clearing endgame videos anymore. The powerscaling of the endgame is just too high. In other gacha games like Genshin and Wuwa i still see 4 star pnly clears which just shows that anyone could clear with the right build. In hsr the endgame is scaled on the power of the latest 5 star. Making others practically useless
Hi fl2ur, love your videos and thank you for bringing awareness over the state Star Rail is heading to. I quit HSR on day 1 of the Rappa patch, after an almost uninterrupted streak, too tired of the story content and the rampant power creep. I am that Seele player, I played the entirety of Hi3rd and Seele is my absolute favorite, my Seele was reaching a level where she was out damaging my Acheron and Firefly with her dedicated team (E2S1 Seele, E2S1 Sparkle, E0 Silver Wolf, E0S1 Fu Xuan), I had lots of fun forcing content with her, but it became stale quickly because my second team was dying because the poor endgame decisions.
With this comment I kinda want to add pointers to your videos especially the "HP inflation is the symptom argument", I hope you see this!
As someone who came from having played Genshin ever since basically 1.2 (played a bit before but not too much), and HI3rd (only for the story, barely touched endgame), I entered with the opinion that endgame in HSR would be treated as Genshin, aka: power creep is a circle and not a line, a new character can valorize old teams, but here we are talking expectations, I didn't expect them to go HI3rd route where they make old units straight up useless (and apparently the ramp in HSR is FASTER than Hi3rd currently for this);
The argument: "Well if you don't like the power creep just don't play endgame and stick with your characters!", in the HSR case, this is completely nuts, for a variety of reasons:
- first, the OVERWORLD CONTENT gets worse, every time a new area was released I felt an immense amount of HP increase, and enemies getting gimmicky for the new characters released (good luck to anyone trying to do feixiao boss with only the two free healers we get, on a realistic scene where the player doesn't even optimize units but plays for story);
- second, the patch content, HSR patches are empty like no patch in a hoyo game ever felt, all the content is packed up at the start and it's usually 6+ dialogue quests (handled poorly for me but that's another thing), the rest of the patch is: 2 x2 on mats event where one in the middle in the patch, one login event like expeditions or give materials for gems, and one combat event which basically forces you to use the trial characters (or your version if you have them) to force it, all on a very slow release pace, which only really leaves the endgame as content where you can actually do something in the game, considering most of the time in HSR you login -> autofarm -> log out;
These two problems create a feedback loop where you will just end up needing new characters to do basic progression or worse find activity to do in the game at all.
The "HP inflation is the symptom argument", I wholeheartedly agree with you with that one! I must add that the explanation you gave in that video however (the kits being more and more a mechanics mash), is also a symptom.
Why that? Because what causes HSR is the game's lack of main mechanics and focus on its combat system, to explain this better let's use Genshin as an example, whichhas an Elemental Reactions system that you play around with, even characters like Eula and Lyney cannot escape this (application always exists no matter what character and you have to manage that). In HSR one would think that the core mechanic is the break bar, but that is false, because it was optional for a long time, enemies can LOCK it, the only thing that HSR has that doesn't make it go fully barebones combat system is the ultimate mechanic which "breaks" turn order, that's it. A lack of main game mechanic to play around with generates character based expression, aka the mechanics are put on the characters themselves and the metas become artificial and separate because there isn't a common ground of interaction. DoT cannot interact with Super Break, because the mechanics are tied to the character, so the teams become very specific for each character and that generates the overvalue of those super generic supports like Robin, but hoyo has to sell, so the next support has even more general buffs. That's a symptom of a lack of core mechanic/system to play around with.
When I provided this example with friends I had this suggestion always in mind: what if break bar was always on, everything could break it but "vulnerable elements" just broke it faster, breaking it gave a big advantage to everyone and DoT also broke it? That would have made the game play around the break bar and the characters would have been made around it.
Hope you like this read (if you read it ahah) and keep having fun in HSR and don't get too much burnout, the train has stopped for me sadly because I couldn't bear this and the scarce story quality that I have been feeling past 1.0 ahahahah, my heart's in Belobog.
Read the whole thing, thank you for your thought out response! Always love to hear takes from the community. I do actually agree with what you said; character kits are a symptom of a larger problem too.
Really, the problem seems like a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" thing - did hp inflation happen because of kits or vice versa?
But, it really comes from the design decisions hoyo made when they made the game originally, or I guess lack thereof.
@@fl2urdo you also agree with the power creep flowing into the casual/overworld part of the game or do you feel it's different?
My example for this would be that I know multiple people who were in the aventurine boss fight for literal 30 minutes because they didn't have the right units for it
I personally tried to experience everything, including endgame, but a perspective from a f2p player that doesn't do endgame but logs in constantly would be interesting to verify how the actual base game power creep is handled lol
Just saw this now, apologies for the late response! Personally, I think that powercreep affects everyone, not just those clearing end game content.
Here's a hypothetical example - Imagine a player that has never done end game at all, and casually plays the game just for the story. They go through the story to the point that they can fight the Feixiao Weekly Boss(released in 2.5) with their favorite character Argenti. For whatever reason, whether that's argenti is bad, skill issue, poor relics, etc, they don't clear, so they get frustrated with the game and give up for two patches.
Now that more story is released in 2.7, they want to come back to the game and play more, and when they came back they roll on the current banners in 2.7(firefly + tingyun). Those two as a combo lets them clear the Feixiao boss they were stuck on. Theoretically, Argenti should've been able to clear the feixiao boss, it's physical weak right? But they couldn't do it. After not playing the game for two patches, they return and get the hot new thing(tingyun) and a DPS that works with her(firefly), and they do.
That's an extreme hypothetical, but it illustrates how powercreep can affect everyone - you don't have to be a meta chaser or end game player for powercreep to be relevant, because current content(including story) is *always* catered around whatever is new.
3:53 I kind of disagree. I came into star rail from other gacha games like Epic Seven, Grand Summoner and Last Cloudia. Most of the time when pulling you should always look at the kit after deciding if you like the character and do a bit of compare and contrast. If you already have a working DPS even if they are from older patches you should be going for what you don’t have or what you need. If I’ve pulled five DPS back to back and try to complete endgame with subpar sustain and supports, that’s my own fault. Yes, the games shouldn’t be looked with an investment mindset but at the same time if you are actively not trying to evaluate what you have on your account and pull accordingly you will end up lacking in some areas.
This happened to me when I was pushing for endgame in epic seven. What was working for the story(which was at the time very difficult) didn’t work for the other modes like hall of trials or certain expedition bosses. If you’ve played epic seven you would know that the majority of the endgame is complex, infinitely more so than star rail. This forced me to look at my collection of mostly non-cleanse soul weavers and look at the base summon list for options.
The point I’m trying to make is that these games should have more nuance for who you pull. Though for this to happen they have to make more complex mechanics that are specific to endgame. This would really prevent HP inflation and force the player to work around or with the given mechanic.
Also another thing they really need to add more units to standard banners. Not limited characters moved to the standard banner, characters made that are non limited that will be moved immediately after the rate up period is over. Epic seven does this and its the best system for releasing story related characters I’ve seen.
In Limbus Company, you can buy (shard) SRRs (000s) for grinding.
Rather than a game, HSR has become a platform to deliver new gacha. This might sound funny at first read, because "haha, obviously the gacha game is about delivering new gacha, duh", and that's true, but it's often not the full and only truth about these games. Plenty of gacha games have great story, characters, and/or gameplay without snuffing them out for supposed profit the way HSR does.
This became abundantly clear to me when Penacony's potential as a story was butchered in favour of promoting a new character every patch. I'd place Penacony's beginning up there with FGO main story chapters in terms of intrigue, but the latter half was handled with all the subtlety of an FGO 4fun event. I straight up felt like the writers weren't given enough space to finish what they started in favour of promoting new characters.
You know when you listen to a dubbed show, but the audio quality is kinda poor and the voice acting isn't all hat good or fitting, so you imagine the VAs recording lines in the studio, rather than being immersed in the characters and story? Think old kids' anime dubbed in your local language (i find it endearing when i watch them nowadays). That's what HSR has become to me, lol (not so endearing tho).
Nevermind that, let me gorge on more product.
e: Even if you are lucky and spend all your rolls to make your faves better, including eidolons, LCs, and lots of gear farming, it won't be enough. Good luck making up the difference in base multipliers and buffs, when in 2 years the new premium team clears the 30mil hp boss in like 1-2 cycles with ease. And for the people who argue that old characters must be rotated out or Hoyo will go under, an extremely small % of the playerbase will stick to 1-2 teams for multiple years like that. People will roll new characters either for the novelty or because they like them. I'd argue that focusing on new mechanics rather than sheer power gaps would encourage players to roll more.
Nobody forces you to do ALL the endgame
Worst part is,i pulled each of the "best" units and even got lucky enough to get them after losing the 50/50 and i STILL cant clear because i cant hyperinvest
Back when i got DHIL and kafka,they were top-tier(i started in 1.6) and then got BS for kafka....when i started getting into endgame i thought i was set but no. I couldn't clear at all so i got FF and ruan mei through sheer luck.....fast forward to today i got forced to pull acheron and her sig cause i don't have any other option but i STILL cant clear because i dont have jq or fugue for my ff....currently saving for aglea in hopes of maybe,maybe being able to clear with her just one MOC(i got sunday for her aswell)
I have all the best units too btw. Robin sunday ruan mei huohuo aventurine etc. But because i dont have e2s1 acheron with jq,because i dont have e1s1 ff with fugue i can't clear...its bs because i got punished for pulling what's the best for me almost each patch but unable to keep up simply because i dont have enough jades to constantly get the new "best" thing
TLDR i got punished for playing late in 1.6 and i need to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars to be able to keep up. Say hsr is generous all you want but it is a fact that f2p and low spenders dont have nearly enough jades and resources to keep up with endgame unless they've been playing since day 1
Whales are so out of touch man,and i lost all my respect for pokke after his horrid tweet
Gacha CC's avoiding fl2ur like the plague because he happens to have the rare sickness of common sense.
Thank you for making this video. It appeals to the human side of the situation. Video games aren't jobs -- at least not for most of us.
I don't often comment here but I was ranting to my friend on multiple occasions about how I hated the direction that HSR is moving towards right now. I really liked Silverwolf and hearing everyone sing their praises during her launch truly made me feel as if she wasn't ever going to be not relevant until characters that can implant their own types to the enemies came out. And its not just Silverwolf, what happened to Seele? I don't get why we need to invest in getting so many copies of a support(s) just to attempt to make a character to be near viable. I also dislike the over-reliance of pulling a support unit just to make your favourite character work like I don't see myself doing well with inbibitor lunae without Sparkle. Im really happy that you brought this powercreep rant up as I believe that we need a "voice" for Hoyoverse to realize and perhaps do something about this.
I don't think I've heard you sound this exasperated before and it's making me laugh. You usually sound so calm and collected. You know powercreep is getting out of hand when fl2ur changes his tone
edit: couldn't agree more btw, you're hitting the nail on the head as usual
I'm glad it came across that way because I wanted to make it clear how it made me feel - I think the only other time I got close to this was my original recording of the simulated universe video, though I ended up re-recording it to tone it down in the end.
I appreciate you watching and giving your thoughts a ton!🙏
@@fl2ur I loved it! Powercreep is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, issues in the game, and while I'm pessimistic and doubt that we'll see changes anytime soon, the average player needs creators like you speaking up for them and keeping the discussion alive. So thank you
I appreciate you being one of the only people talking about this from the perspective of an actual average player. One that pulls people they like and sometimes other ones that make their favorites better and want to use them without having to clock hundreds of hours in grinding or studying. I used to main monoquantum and Jingliu but had to give them up, if I have to give up Rappa and Yunli I might just quit, I don't like Robin or Sunday so I am basically giving up crit and summon teams now. My girlfriend already doesn't want to play anymore after her "meta defining" Acheron and Kafka take more and more just to 3 star.
I’ve always been someone who is relatively unpicky when it comes to rolling characters since I also like to have a good array of options. When a game resorts to making me feel like I need to pull characters as more of means to an end rather than the enjoyment of testing out different playstyles, you begin to lose me as someone who wants to actively enjoy your game. Star Rail is the first gacha I’ve played where I seriously have to go into research on a character two patches in the future just to make sure I’m not gonna get screwed in the next 4-6 months and to me that’s not fun.
I’ve been playing Cyberpunk 2077 lately and what that lad is doing just reminds me of some characters in that game being Arasaka mouthpieces. But in the end, the corpo don’t give a damn about you.
As a long gacha veteran player, powercreep will never be flat and always be climbing. Gacha game is a collecting characters game.
Mihoyo are the greedy ones, Pokke is just sucking them off because he wants to bully people into spending money and he thinks Mihoyo will reward him for it.
im still going to get the characters i like even if they get powercreep in only 2 versions, but yeah rn tribbie the new character is really op now altmost all people are saying "she is a must pull you have to pull for her" but i dont really like the chracter, i dont hate her bc well its a game but i dont like much for pull for her even if i plan to main herta, i can say that she will have powercreep in the end of amphoreus or even in versions like 3.6 after her first rerun. and i have to say that for the first time i worry for this kind of thing like in my 2 years in genshin i never have a problem with powercreep i even can say that i pass all the abbys and theather with a c6 xiangling (a 4 star character from 1.0 now we are in 5.3) meanwhile here what was the last 4 star? gallagher he is still a good healer but dint he relase in 2.2 or 2.3? like we are already in 3.0 and no new 4 star i think you guys get the point