Warptorio: Evolved HomeWorld #4: the Ultimate Mortal Combat Combo...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
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Chapters:
"Factorio 1.1.110 (Date: 16.08.2024): Fixed a bonus productivity exploit when crafting machine ingredients were force returned"
Nice job xD
AKA, "The Hendriks Bug"
Wait a god damn second, I know you
I love how the "more" link actually links to his yt video rather than a forum post
I saw that in the log, too, and thought well... that was quick.
@@ChrisBigBad I've been calling it the Hendriks Hack.
Congrats Michael! That's not A line in a change log, that's YOUR line in a change log. Well done!
Looking into the items a bit, the spidertron item is an "item with entity data", while the armor is an "item with inventory". The spidertrons data is (from what I can tell) initialized lazily, IE after you change the spidertron in some way (putting equipment inside or changing the color). At that point the item becomes unstackable in the assembler due to the data, but before it's a "blank slate" that can stack with other blank slates because their data matches. With the armor the data has to exist immediately, so it's never stackable, either because the comparison checks fail or because something in the code is telling "item with inventory" to just never stack while "item with entity data" is allowed to stack as long as the data of the two stacks matches up
To be honest, that spider barely survived stepping into the upper world, and just hinged on structural integrity during the encounter... 😅
It's but a scratch!
@@MichaelHendriks The only hit point that matters is the last!
That close call would probably have me replacing one or two exoskeletons (legs) with two or four shield modules (bonus HP).
22:25 YOU ABSOLUTELY WOULD do that, we all know it, you just didn't do it THIS TIME
Exactly what I was thinking.
Wow that endgame Warptorio kit is OP! Maybe print out a few dozen spidertrons with laser defenses and rockets to sit around the mining platforms for defense?
That is [would have been] a good idea...
The battle for UPS has begun !
Possible solution, throw some more silicon at it.
UPS Rises
Predicting the next warptorio patch notes: "Finished product productivity capped at 100%"
16:50 Power armor has additional internal data with the armor modules, so even without any inside, each one is considered a 'unique' item and therefore can't be stacked. Normal armor isn't like that, the inability to stack those in the player's inventory is because of a data tag that prevents stacking under normal circumstances. When being used in a craft that isn't the case.
That doesn't explain why spidertrons can stack but power armors cannot.
They both have internal space for modules.
@KekkusMaximus it's probably a difference between armor and vehicles for that. Likely something deep in the coding which treats them very differently.
@@KekkusMaximus If I remember right the armors have a persistent inventory, while the spiders have not. As in if you pick up a spider its contents are removed, as such all spiders in an inventory are identical, while armors may have uniqe contents.
That legged monster is outrageously expensive, 9 ENTIRE FISH!!? In this economy??
This will definitely affect the trout population.
19:20 "And that is our warp-armors combat-loudout complete"
Laughing quite a bit too much about that here :D
For the generous demonstration of the Strider, I was just sitting there agape. 0_0 ...ooooo(Boom? Yes, boom!)
2:30 Wube could've fixed this by making it so bonus products only got produced once the real one is produced (and thus all of the inputs are consumed) instead of whenever a bonus progress bar is complete. Doing so would make >100% productivity bonus work as expected and unexploitable.
Nvm, that would prevent
Meh not like anything in base game ever go over 100% prod anyway (except miner). Doing that could also require rewrite the code instead of just adding some checks. And the real expensive item where said exploit is actually worth it (y'know, instead of just up production and make bigger factory) are end products which you can't even put prod in to begin with, soooo... Just the check for under 100% prod is enough.
@@raizors1331
The expansion has a productivity cap of 300% and over 100% would easily be possible.
i like this solution; just have productivity multiply the number of items that the are given when the main crafting bar fills; so, something like this (in psuedo code):
declare variable craft_mul;
initial craft_mul = 1;
on product_bar_fill: craft_mul += 1;
on main_bar_fill: {clear ingredients; yield(recipe_result.multiply(craft_mul)); set craft_mul = 1;}
There's everything to be said for getting to the point in a playthrough where explosive exponential growth becomes realized.
Playing Mike: "Do they really expect me to make a complete mockery of myself by exiting through the back door of my own warp platform?"
This series has been going on for 8 months, insane
It's funny how an upgrade may be only an incremental increase in damage, but it is the difference between needing one rocket and two, doubling your damage output or halving your consumption rate, however you choose to keasure things.
This is exactly why those miniscule upgrades in many RPGs (or maybe more likely action games with RPG elements like looter shooters for example) can feel unrewarding and stale if said upgrades don't translate to actual gameplay because 1x dmg or 1.5x dmg it's still requiring same amount of attacks.
Then he proceeds to use 16 rockets on one small expansion. True Michael Hendriks style
Hahaha he actually managed to get the devs to fix his exploit. NICE!
I think the best bet here will be to clear out the area around home base, set up some walls with mass repair bots, laser turrets, and flame throwers. Than artillery... fill the entire base with flamethrower fuel and artillery production, destroy everything, artillery range upgrades until there's enough room to expand the base, expand in one direction at a time with the same walls and artillery.
I literally just clicked onto your channel to check if the next of these had been uploaded after noticing how long it'd been since the last one, and I found this uploaded 18 minutes ago. I'm beginning to think I have some sort of sixth sense for detecting your videos.
A Strider-Sense?
22:25 You had me worried there for a second, you're a good bro (:
My guess for the not stack-able armor is: Items are stored with metadata. Items with no special metadata can easily be stacked. However Armor with inventory and with possible items in that inventory would be a horror to implement to be stack-able since you would need to track each inventory in the item stack. An Item stack probably only can store one items worth of metadata and the amount of items in the stack.
Edit: Assumption 2. The spidertron has been forgotten to be not allowed to stack? Does the inventory grid break when stacking them?
Interesting idea, I'll check if their (different) inventory grids get deleted/messed up after stacking and unstacking
Spiders only stack if their equipment grid is empty (even similar grids won't stack), and thus preserves the equipment grid. Armors never stack despite empty equipment grids. Speculation: Feels like putting something in an equipment grid sets a flag as unstackable, and seems like armor has this flag set even if grid is empty
@@MichaelHendriks the armors are "ArmorPrototype"s, which appear to not be stackable if their prototype gives them an equipment grid, even if its empty. Spidertrons, like cars, tanks, trains, and other vehicles, are "ItemWithEntityDataPrototype"s, which are stackable unless the item is storing any so-called entity data (such as the vehicle's grid). the item prototypes are different, so the functions used to determine if the item is stackable are different.
Sounds like a bug/oversight that needs to be addressed.
@Penguin_Spy That must be the difference indeed, still seems unintended/undesirable that the stacking behaviour is different
When you said “oh but let’s not hand craft this spidertron…” I GASPED OUT LOUD
Burning trough over 2700 Rockets in this amazing real finale episode. Make it over 9000 NEXT TIME
Tjjjsh
Wow! Amazing! Incredible!
I think that it IS the inventory grid, but the spidertron only has a grid while it's in the world as an entity, whereas armour always exists as an item instead.
It could still be the inventory grid no? If spidey & armor grids work differently due to the all too familiar spaghetti code, it could be the case.
16:60 - it is because power armor contains metadata about it's modules/contents. That is why each power armor is unique and two of them can not be places in one slot because they aren't equal. It is easier to implement it that way.
This is a great series, I just finished a warptorio 2 save using the same starting strategy
i've waited so long for this, another warptorio vid! keep up the content mate
For once I'd say nuclear weapons would have been a more.. efficient choice here.
If a bit risky because some guy can't figure out how to make a rocket big enough for longer range lmao
Nuke time? Nuke time!
"Kaboom?"
"Yes Rico, Kaboom"
EN: This promises to be more interesting than the Rampant mod. I wonder what will come out faster? Michael's video where the last one came out 5 days ago. Or Dosh Doshington's video which I've been waiting for over a month... Cool. On the one hand, it's good that exploits are fixed, but on the other hand, I like them. Okay, while there are servers on versions lower than 1.1. 100, it will be possible to make a splash there. :)) (It's a pity that they are trying to slow down TH-cam in Russia, but there are already a lot of bypasses :))))))
RU: Это обещает быть интереснее даже, чем мод Rampant . Интересно что выйдет быстрее? Видео Мичаеля где поледнее выходило 5 дней назад. Или видео Дош Дошингтона которое я уже жду больше месяца... Класс. С одной стороны хорошо что эксплоиты фиксятся, но с другой я люблю их. Ладно, пока есть сервера на версии меньше 1.1.100, можно будет навести там шумихи. :)) (Жалко что ютуб в России пытаются замедлять но обходов уже куча :))))). Тот кто сейчас сидит в России, напишите в ответы, чтобы я мог поглядеть кого сюда занесло.)
16:44 My guess is it's because they have an equipment grid.
edit: and aren't spidertrons?? hmm
Really love your videos ❤
I think you could do parallel 3d printing by using electric disconnect/connect to work with multiple assembler
🕷️🕷️🕷️
Clearly the solution to safe mining is to retrieve raw materials directly from the Warp?
New rule: You are only allowed to exploit productivity bugs if you spend hundreds of hours making amazing youtube content out of factorio! XD
The Factorio API does provide a flag to make items non-stackable in the way that modular armor is non-stackable, but strangely enough, I cannot find this flag being set anywhere in the modular armor's item prototype. It _could_ be the case that there is a special hard-coded case for armors where they are made non-stackable if they have an equipment grid, but that would be weird and extremely unfriendly to modders. Or it could be that I am blind and modular armors really do have this flag set, for some reason.
Non-modular armor and spidertrons demonstrate normal stacking behaviour with the stack limit set to 1.
If you check the armor prototype in the Prototype Explorer [ctrl]+[shift]+F, you'll see that the flag is set there, despite the base game code in the GitHub not having the flag set.
I'm sure it won't be quite that OP, but I am really looking forward to playing around with the expansion and figuring out how much improvement one can make to things like the spidertron with all the new items in the games and the quality!~
the 3d printing tech is just so funny
so is the wrap strider
Oh goodness, I'm imagining Warp Modules combined with Space Age Item Quality.
Ten of 'em in the Warp Beacon going from +100% productivity, now to +250% for that entire factory floor.
and THEN the new effect with Beacons having a stronger effect in smaller numbers, the warp Beacon would be multiple times stronger.
idea: likely the modular aspect of the armor makes all 5 have different ids and as such unstackable
yknow, i half expected you to delay starting your assault on the biters to go get more uranium to make nukes...
16:50 Probably because they have individual equipment grids
Re: spidertrons
I know some mods add equipment grids to vehicles, so I suspect they asked Wube to make vehicles stack if they have an empty grid since otherwise adding the equipment grid to locomotives would make them unstackable. And I further suspect Spidertrons being vehicles inherit that logic but armors don't.
So for whatever reason i was suggested a video of yours from a year ago that i had already watched but i wasnt told about this video. I only found it was out because i checked when i realized the other video wasnt your latest.
The armours that CAN'T be stacked just so happen to be the same armours that have an equipment grid, which means they necessarily have to be distinct items in factorio's mind, I'd imagine.
EDIT: Ahahaha, I see :D
The unstackable armor thing has to do with the fact that they have an equipment grid. Like in Krastorio2, where you can't stack locomotives once their grid is non-empty. But, weirdly, the game doesn't care that power armors have an empty grid
Well, now we know why the latest FFF says they're buffing nest HP.
Yes
Do the spiders retain their inventory when you pick them up?
no
@@MichaelHendriks then you have a feasible explanation for why they stack while the power armours don't :p
Though I realize I was talking about the inventory grid / power armour like grid, which was maybe not obvious.
Ah, they do keep their equipment grid I think
@@MichaelHendriks I would do some testing on this if I could, unfortunately it's gonna be a week until then
Tested: Spiders only stack if their equipment grid is empty (even similar grids won't stack), and thus preserves the equipment grid. Armors never stack despite empty equipment grids. Speculation: Feels like putting something in an equipment grid sets a flag as unstackable, and seems like armor has this flag set even if grid is empty
Oh, I think I know the answer to the mystery of the unstackable power armors yet stackable Spidertrons. It's because you can't modify a Spidertron's equipment grid while it's in your inventory, only while it's placed down. Imagine if those power armors _did_ stack: what would happen if you tried to insert equipment into them while they were stacked? It would be a huge mess.The spidertron, however, is safe from this, since you can't open its equipment grid while it's an item.
...Or _can_ you? If you pick up a Spidertron that has equipment inside of it, you actually _can_ right-click it to open up its equipment grid. Even if you empty the grid completely, it still keeps the property that allows its equipment to be modified... unless you place the emptied-out Spidertron down and pick it up again, at which point its grid once again becomes inaccessible. Very bizarre behavior.
Also, opening up a spidertron item's equipment grid doesn't make the noise that opening a power armor equipment grid does, or even the sound of opening up a Spidertron's trunk. It's completely silent.
Weird stuff huh
Exceltorio ;-)
My guess is that equipment grid items probably don't stack because the attached equipment means that each armor is potentially distinguishable. Maybe the game could check if the equipment grids were the same and allow two possibly-distinguishable items stack, but why would the devs spend time writing that check for a case that ever comes up in vanilla?
Edit: You're not my mum, you can't tell me what to do.
A disappointing lack of nuclear missiles :D
Regardless of whether it's actually a limitation of the engine or a bug in the code, if the argument is that 3D printing mechanic was intended, then the inability to use it on the highest tier equipment would make sense. Barring something introduced by a version change, did the mod designer really fail to notice that these expensive recipes couldn't be crafted in an assembler?
Meanwhile we've learned that it may be that armors have inventory grid hardcoded in even if empty, which causes this behaviour to be unchangable
I bet the stacking issue with the modular armor + is due to them having their own inventory grid.
edit: oh dang lol
Modular armor and later have equipment grids. That would be why. If you stack them, information about the contents of the equipment, grids is lost.
EDIT: damnit
Can you pick up spidertrons including their equipment grid? Because if you can't, or it gets put in your inventory, that's your answer. If you can.... Beats me, probably a bug from the olden times when meta data was handled differently for items with equipment grids attached or something.
Power armors probably don't stack because they have inventory grids.
Aa! My ears!
Gonk :D
nuke would be sooooooo entertaining there
Heh, WarpStrider has 9001 Health
To bad personal laser defense have been nerfed into oblivion in 2.0
To be honest 8 spidertrons seems more powerful than a single warp spider
Being able to evade biters and spit attacks with all those legs is way more valuable than raw firepower.
17:44
Next time
I wonder how much of that damage you took on your initial foray was self-inflicted by rocket AOEs
Zero
i am almost up to date on your twitch vods for the 10k spm....i think you should tap in to like 10 stone make it all in to land fill then get 50k bots to just fill in the lakes to place all your builds...you will not have to worry about building over ores and you say all the time you have time in the game...lol someone said "keep it simple stupid"
How come your comments are so often asking questions and making remarks about a different video than under which one you're posting?
@@MichaelHendriks well in this particular case I cannot leave a comment on a twitch vod but I know you read the TH-cam comments.
im disappointed in the end. . . when he did not show how many hundreds of biters he murdered in the course of a few minutes D:
Are the red squares at 2:23 editing mistakes or are you trying to hide something.
i checked the game files and power armors does not contain the flag "not-stackable" which does the thing you experience. weird. maybe warptorio related?
According to other comment: the armors are "ArmorPrototype"s, which appear to not be stackable if their prototype gives them an equipment grid, even if its empty. Spidertrons, like cars, tanks, trains, and other vehicles, are "ItemWithEntityDataPrototype"s, which are stackable unless the item is storing any so-called entity data (such as the vehicle's grid). the item prototypes are different, so the functions used to determine if the item is stackable are different.
edit: oh oops it looks like MichaelHendriks already copy pasted my comment from the other thread sorry :p
original:
the armors are "ArmorPrototype"s, which appear to not be stackable if their prototype gives them an equipment grid, even if its empty. Spidertrons, like cars, tanks, trains, and other vehicles, are "ItemWithEntityDataPrototype"s, which are stackable unless the item is storing any so-called entity data (such as the vehicle's grid). the item prototypes are different, so the functions used to determine if the item is stackable are different
The armors probably dont stack because of the equipment grid in each of them
Oh...
Maybe vehicles are handled differently?
My guess is that any modular armor is not stackable in assembler bc in code each same modular armor is still different item, like id-wise bc there still may be different modules inside
Huh, got me
I'm curious - can insert Warp Modules into regular beacons? Could that lead to a further +120% productivity?
No
why not use nuclear missiles ... those one shot everything and have a huge area of effect and range ...
one shot everything --> that's the problem
@@MichaelHendriks that's why we have warp nukes. Check them out, they're the OG weapon of Warptorio
"With 110% productivity bonus, the intended ..."
You are joking, right? Obviously, the devs try to fix bugs where you can get items for free. The INTENDED way is to open the editor and "honestly cheat" in your modules, if you want things for free.
Really. There is nothing wrong if you want to play in a creative-cheating mode, if you enjoy that better. And there is an audience for this as well (i.e. the factorio technical community). Why don't you make honest videos about interesting technical builds and topics and skip this "ooh, look.. I am such a tough guy and can do challenges" - pretending non-sense when you plan to exploit bugs anyway? That is just sad..
About your self-justification: Just because the mod-makers want you to be able to exceed 100% doesn't mean they want you to be able to obtain items for free (it just means, they are fine with more than two items per batch). With the same line of argument, you can say: "Since /editor works everywhere, obviously everyone wants you to cheat in any item you want."
In the end, you have to draw your own line where you think something is exploiting bugs and where something is a challenge. In my books, sadly you are now a guy who pretends to do challenging runs but actually are an exploiter to cut corners.
Fair enough. In my book there's a clear distinction between abusing game mechanics and typing in cheat codes/console commands.
@MichaelHendriks There's a very, very clear difference between abusing intended game mechanics, and just cheating in the items. Achieving over 100% productivity bonus is utterly game breaking, but intended. Abusing it isn't cheating because you still need to get to the point where it can be abused.
I think of it like speedrunning. Game breaking exploits are abused to achieve an end goal, but cheating outright isn't an exploit of game mechanics, so it isn't allowed. On top of just not being very interesting or fun.
This exploit was niche, and very entertaining to see in action. Challenge runs should absolutely be for personal satisfaction, but challenge runs for content have the added need for entertainment value. Thus, the exploit is fair game for a variety of reasons, in my books.
Did this guy miss the first two dozen episodes? You earned 3d printing.