Stretching Doesn't Reduce Injury. So What Does? | Educational Video | Biolayne
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Stretching does not reduce injuries:
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Warm up effect on injury incidence
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Sleep reduces injury risk:
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I reduced my injury risk to 0% by sleeping 100% of the time.
Sleeping 100% of the time increases injury risk the most, especially the shoulders. Muscle weakness is the biggest risk factor.
This is revolutionary science
Solid strategy.
Based
Bed sores
Discipline isn't always about showing up and doing the work. It's sometimes about cutting training volume or customize the training when injuries happens.
Exactly. Showing up and doing the work regardless of pain or injury is not discipline, its ego.
Only the best athletes understand this. I would add too humbling yourself to stick to a plan to commit to it in the long run.
I am doing that right now because of a shoulder tear. And at first, it hurt because I couldn't even squat 45 lbs. (bar) without pain...
Amen, learning all about this right now. Thank you Layne.
Discipline is about consistency, the amount of work is irrelevant
As someone who is a massage therapist and has a stretching certification, I always try to push my clients to focus on strength training to deal with pain. Massage feels great and is no super relaxing but people who get them are often times don’t want to do any work for themselves.
As someone who is a lifter I can also confirm getting stronger in general has reduced my injuries and made me more resistant to them as well
Great to hear a massage therapist say this. Guarantee there are alot of them that would tout the injury prevention of the practice
Way to judge your clients SMH
@@soulsearch1234 he's just sharing some empirical data (his observations) it's ok.
Unfortunately you will not break up the densifications, adhesions in the tissue and between the tissues with exercise alone. When you get densifications and adhesions you need a compressive and tensile force often combined with movement and load to break them up.
"If you don't want to get injured don't get out of bed in the morning" that was hilarious
wrong. staying in bed will result in bed sores. worst kind of injury ever, which oftentimes won't heal.
i’m hypermobile (ehlers danlos) and before i was diagnosed there was a series of non-lifting injuries which caused me to fully decondition for years. i was scared to lift again. you’re truly right that this is not just physical exposure therapy but mental exposure therapy. only seeing other people with my condition successfully powerlifting and research that stresses the benefits of resistance training for my condition did i decide to come back. would love to see more content on hypermobility and injury! i know it could change a lot of lives
Fellow EDSer here, good on you lifting heavy! So many of us are terrified of lifting, my belief is that packing muscle around our less than ideal joints helps stabilize. However scientifically true, idk, but in my experience I'm so much better off when routinely lifting.
How did you find out? The only thing I've done consistently in the past couple years at the gym is injure myself and having to take a month or so off and come back weaker, and it's frustrating because I used to be so fit and now I can't even squat the bar without my back hurting.
I dislocated my shoulder looking backwards reversing my car. Kept happening. Rather than it being just stupid flexible, I think a bit was lack of strength in some muscles not holding it in place.
@@_lil_lilcan you asain squat and back bridge. I dare say if you can, you should be able to squat pain free
Also hypermobile, shoulders are especially bad. So bad they dislocate when I turn during the night. Over time I figured out some tricks that make it way better. First, j never ever do passive stretching. Some active stretching (like crab pose/bridges) helps. I sleep on my back and try to externally rotate my arms as I fall asleep, that tends to keep the shoulders happy overnight. I can't do certain exercises like the front squat, the way the bar is supposed to rest forces my humerus out of it's socket. Be very strict with retracting shoulders when benching.
Oh, and bodyweight facepulls are a game changer. I always warm up with them and my shoulders feel just fine during workouts. They used to hurt and feel uncomfortable and tight after workouts, but the facepulls fixed them completely.
Fudge Layne - then how does BatMan remain in peak physical condition with only microsleep? Huh? CHECKMATE! 😂
Love this comment.
how do you know batman never slept? did he have a cam on him 24/7? it would have been alfred in disguise, which he was shown to do many times.
There are so many videos of physicians talking about how to rehab bulging disks, and even though what they prescribe isn't necessarily bad, it's directed at the general public who aren't gym rats.
I always thought "how is doing cat/cow pose and dead bugs going to make a dent in the recovery of someone who can deadlift and squat 500+ lbs".
This makes so much more sense.
He was doing cats camel and bird dogs with dr mcgill.
@pickwickiansyndrome1546 I know, but he also utilized regressions. Many physicians just tell you to avoid specific lifts all together.
physiotherapy has its own scope nowadays and physicians with up-to-date education will know when to refer to them. and you are right, their priority is to help unwell people with activities of daily living rather than get you PRs
Love the combo of taking research and showing how you incorporate it. Its crazy how much a simple thing like sleep helps with everything
I’m a sports and msk Physio and have to say, this is completely correct. Mostly the approach I use with my patients and clients now.
His warmup sets are my goal working sets 😂
Even though I have a huge respect for Layne, this is one of those topics where I don't care what science says, I know my stretching before each section helps me in terms of pain and reduce injury risk. I do it, pain goes alway in case I have it, my range of motion improves and I feel it in my body, not with my feelings, that it helps me to perform my workout.
Science is great and all, but no amount of paper or data will tell me not to static stretch.
The same things will happen if you just do a sport specific warm-up (light squatting before squats); that will save time and give you actual practice. Try it!
Yeah that’s the thing about “the science”… it’s always behind what you can see with your own eyes.
@j2asper ... Doing sets of an exercise that has a deep stretch to the movement IS stretching.
totally agree with you
this is honestly one of the best videos for people EVER!!!!!!!
Have a shoulder injury, it’s been months but slowly getting better through mobility training, increasing range of motion and strengthening. I’m keeping it moving. I look forward to when I can sleep in my left side and not wake up in pain, it’s very close
Same
Great video Layne. If I had to boil it down to one thing, it would be a load management. Obviously acute injuries are going to happen, but the majority of injuries that I see every day are from inappropriate load management.
This is my favorite video from you now. So much insight into your logical troubleshooting around rehabilitation
Strengthening the antagonist weaker muscles helped me most on this matter. For example sitting too much put my hamstrings in a slightly flexed position and a slight stretch on my quads. Hammy stretches were super ineffective, but strengthening quads and hip flexors automatically improved my hammy flexibility. It's all about the balance of the muscles, especially the antagonist muscles like the quads or hammies. Same happened to my shoulders when I started doing external rotation exercises and strengthening the lower and mid traps to create balance up there after all those heavy push days. Good luck and let me know if something else better worked for you!
you ever tried strengthening your stabilizer muscles? I did nothing but suspension training for one year then moved on to kettlebells. i was able to progressive to the heaviest bells in a relatively short period of time. no injuries, except for banging the wrists until i got the clean perfected.
That was really useful. More of this type of video would be great. The debunking videos are great too, but these are better and ultimately more useful. Thanks Layne.
“Active Isolated Stretching” (dynamic) is great option.
Love it. Found the same when I pulled a tendon off the bone. Slow weight bearing training over time compared to an immobilised similar patient produced significantly quicker and better recovery.
I think it's really helpful that you provided a couple of examples of how you've worked through your injuries.
I was literally looking for information related to injury prevention! This is awesome Thanks Layne!!!
Layne might (for sure) be the most balanced exercise scientist and nutritionist I’ve ever read or heard
On the topic of streching and injury risks, there are literature to support both directions. I believe a big reason for the divergent results depends on the context. The primary one is the type of sports. Cases where static stretching is believed to increase risks of injury seem to involve sports that do not rely on large range of motion, and/or rely more on strength. I have been dancing ballet for many years. I can state with a very high level of certainty that stretching before dance rehearsals is absolutely necessary to reduce injury risks. It is common to see students stretching to close to end range of motion before dance classes to improve performance. Another context pertains to the fitness level of the individual. My observation is that a sedentary individual seems to benefit from some forms of stretching before exercises to avoid accidentally pulling something. It would be nice of this channel can cover the nuances on this topic in more depth.
I'm a physical therapist, and I approve this message
This is so important for those who take training seriously.
5:09 I think getting that mental connection dialed in is key to any warm up! There are days I go through the motions without getting my mind invested and the workouts always suck.
This is gold. I currently have injured wrists from boxing and sprained ankles from running
best video so far i've been a fan for years
I avoid squats, deadlifts and bench. Haven't had any injuries since.
Truth!
Hip thrust is another one to be careful.
@TranceMusic20 I've never done those to even know tbh
I feel like bench doesn't have to be excluded here as long as you do it properly but yeah deadlift is an injury nightmare and squat isn't much better
I squat, deadlift and bench and havent had an injury yet.
Excellent video and really helpful! I’m definitely going to implement a good warm up and dynamic stretching routine before my training session and focus a lot more on sleeping and not doing junk volume. 👍💪
This is great information and spot on with current research. Love it when others are preaching the truth out there. There’s a lot of misinformation floating around, and it's refreshing to see someone who reads and understands the literature on fitness, recovery, and building strength.
And your natural too. Very impressive. I tore my left pec in 2011 and came back stronger. However I had help. Now I have injured my left shoulder. Injury unfortunately is inevitable if you lift long enough. I started at 15 and now I’m 40
You’re natural
i started in my 50s and now in my 60s.
@@C0d0ps autocorrect… I also didn’t spell pectoral either. Mind as well point it all out since this post is about the English language
@@Know-nx5yo awesome 👏 💪
I got low-key worried when i saw you working with Stu McGill a few years back. Happy to see you adopt a biopsychosocial approach to pain and injury!
An important thing is to note is sometimes a form of dynamic stretching might be all you can do for a while. I hurt my back 4 months doing 720 lb farmers holds and kept trying to start light with just the bar or 135 lb, but it never really improved much. I couldn’t walk more than 20 steps without feeling nauseous for the first month. Recently, I started doing some simple dynamic stretching, a good amount of walking and laying on my stomach, not my back, and nordic curls (yes, a hamstring exercise, but my back is the limiting factor currently) along with upright loading, such as Bulgarian split squats (just did 415 lb today). I’m finally starting to recover.
I have no idea what is wrong with my back since MRI dyes make me super sick, but nothing showed on the X-ray so it must be soft tissue.
15 min brisk walk with exaggerated arm swing. Your welcome.
You did a 415lb bulgarian split squat? All credit to you. Torture!!!!
Great video! I always continue my workouts with injury with the same method as well, but the cause of the injury made totally sense now! Thank you for another no BS video
In the off season on my secondary squat and bench day I intensely stretch my main movers with the intent to decrease force production and artificially weaken myself as a form of load management. Bodybuilders have been doing it for years and I've seen great gains.
Thank you for this. Now I know I was on the right track when I would hurt something and change the routine by lightening up whatever I was doing and work back up. It's hard to overcome the desire to keep pushing when you are in pain as our egos fight us. My start includes a slant board before I start doing my routine. I do deep knee bends and step offs which helps stretch my hips, hamstrings, ankles, and calves so I can do deep split squats with the back leg stretched as far as I can starting with no weight and working towards weighted pushes. I really enjoy your vids. Keep it up.
that was awesome Dr Norton, added this to a playlist, and will watch a few times more
Well-earned wisdom. It's welcome! Thank you!
Great video. I didn’t know that about the sleep, but makes perfect sense and lines up with my previous injuries
I do dynamic stretching, in my experience it helps a lot .. I always pulled something before I started to do proper warmups.
This was so helpful to hear from a professional's POV. I'm just a hobby gym goer, but very attached to my strength gains. Recently I've had some "injuries" (extreme soreness and inability to recover but for no apparent reason) and was feeling quite depressed at going backwards in my loads and volume, seeing my progress get erased. I felt like such a failure. Your commentary puts it into a different perspective, and really helps me refocus on what I've achieved over the last few years coming from nothing, rather than what is happening this week.
That is extremely important for tendon injuries and injury preventions as well!
Thank you for this. Very helpful and informative. There is so much misinformation around injury. Are there any benefits at all to stretching then? I love stretching, not for injury prevention, but just feels good for the muscles.
Awesome. I appreciate all the videos. But the generous explanation of process in thos one was fantastic.
Restoring range of if motion can definitely help with injuries
Static stretching may not reduce injury rates if done prior to to exercise, but maintaining appropriate muscle length, muscle strength balance and joint ROM of which static stretching can be used as one of the tools to accomplish these factors does reduce injury rates.
On stretching I'd like to hear Layne's view in regards to joint ROM for certain movements. I'm extremely stiff and inflexible, if I don't do certain stretches regularly or as part of my warm-up, I don't have the ROM to perform the movement correctly and overtime do get certain injuries, it's as simple as that... e.g.. rowing, squatting movements and running ..
Actually he kinda answered my question later in the Vid... 😊
I do both Sumo and Barbell Squats. Really appreciate the details on this one. Thanks, Dr. Norton!❤🙏🏻❤️
Outstanding video Layne!! Thanks for helping out, this is some I’ve been struggling with for long now. Keep it up man, what a legend of the game💪🏼💪🏼
Would ❤to see a warmup video blog layne 🤗
I’m a veterinarian who’s been involvedin orthopedic surgeries. The same goes with bone fracture healing. Te bone needs to feel a bit of pressure in order for it to heal. But if you put too much pressure the bone will break. But you never let the dog be inactive.
As someone who knows absolutely nothing about a whole lot...
Anyhow - love the content. Here's for the Algo'.
@0:50 Exactly this. I used to train quite a bit when I was younger, then when I was in my mid 20s I broke my Spine. It required a Spinal Fusion. I spent a number of years recovering, even returned to work but other joints started to fail on me so I gave up my Labor intensive Job and Training. Then COVID hit. I will tell you right now, it's worse to suffer because your inactive.. becoming Immobile and Stiff then to suffer through wear and tear while Training intelligently. Having returned to Walking (No Jogging for me because of the Fusion) and Resistance Training smartly, god I feel better, alive again. Yeah some things on me get get sore and tender but it's better than the agony of barely being able to get out of bed, trust me. Dr Layne is spot on here.
Your body is stronger then you will ever realize and if you feed it the right nutrition, get good rest, don't over train and train smartly it can bounce back from almost anything it just needs time to recover and the discipline of good habits.
Stretching may not, but there certainly is a baseline of flexibility required for certain lifts that will increase your risk if you don’t have it.
Most would agree, including yourself, Layne, that there is no one person who is the sum total of all knowledge or has a market cornered on understanding their field of expertise. But what's most refreshing Layne is your stand alone honesty, integrity and transparency and last but not least, your vast experience that makes your existence here amongst a vast amount of disingenuous charlatans and self agrandizing so called gurus..your a welcome staple in many people's lives! I'll leave u with a most poignant quote.." The greatness of a man is not in the amount of wealth he acquires ,but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively." Be proud of your legacy Layne!🏋️♂️
The algorithm reduces the risk of injury.
Static stretching doesn't prevent injury. But dynamic stretching does reduce injury.
Great video. Thank you Layne.
Why the hate on stretching? Layne this is in the conclusion of the study you screen shot. Did you miss it SS and "PNF show no overall effect on all-cause injury or overuse injuries, but there may be a benefit in reducing acute muscle injuries with running, sprinting, or other repetitive contractions"
From my knowledge data around stretching is poor. Bespoke stretching prior to specific movements can alter biomechanics,plausibly improving efficiency or changing loads on specific structures.
I'll give you a really easy example. I developed golfers elbow from squats. The rack position caused a quickly escalating discomfort over the course of weeks. How did i address it? I stretched the shit out of my pecs before squats which relieved forces going through my elbow immediately reducing pain and settling the issue over about 4 weeks.
This stuff is complex and all these studies throw "high school" stretching programmes at the wall hoping they'll stick.
Absolutely fantastic information. Thanks Dr. Norton.
For the algorythm, and I fancy this one. Currently getting through injury, and trully happened during stresful period.
The only injury ive had in the past 10 years was when i was talked into static stretching before squats. I pulled something in my groin while i was warming up and could barely get in/out of my car for a week.
Gave the video a like after you described your injuries and that you are still lifting crazy weight.
Can you do a video on optimal recovery? Being able to squat heavy 4 times a week is completely insane to me.
I'd be willing to bet he will say sleep.
@@Ryan-wx1bi Im averaging 9 a night and I cant imagine squatting more than twice in a week without my quads exploding like popped balloons
@@BHFFS If you're squatting more days, lower the amount of sets. I used to squat 3 times a week and rarely felt sore. Instead of doing 5x5, I did 3 sets of 5 reps... My PR shot up quick during that time too
You may not want to do more for the sake of it. Are you progressing at a decent pace? If yes, probably no need to change anything.
Reduce volume increase duration maybe add variations
While the advice given here is probably great for powerlifters I think the majority of us are just individuals who train regularly and want to increase strength and gain muscle. And for this audience, I think, the single best thing that we can do to reduce injury risk is to do less ego lifting. If you’re not competing or aiming to compete, there is no need to do lifts with less than 10 reps. As force increases with lifted weight, I believe the best thing we can do is to properly warm up a movement and not hit muscular failure in every set, but only in the last set. I‘ve seen great success since I started to prioritise form over weight and started to train more in the 20-10RM range.
Man, when I switched to “Easy Strentgh” routine by Pavel and Dan John, I never had an injury.
And my strength was climbing literally faster than ever.
But, we get bored and forget and now I’m nursing some sore af shoulders.
I have been a Competitive Swimmer for 10 years and Lacrosse Player for 2 years. I stretch every day and have never been injured.
one of your most informative videos , thank you layne!
Good to hear. I've been doing likewise.
On leg day I start with the elliptical machine; then light weights and work my way up to the heavy sets; then drop-set back down.
Pure Gold Layne….just as usual. 👌💪
That is really interesting. Thanks for sharing Layne. I read that another strategy for minimizing injury risk is to use BFR bands, which allow you to train with lighter volume/load while still stimulating muscle atrophy. Also, some body builders claim that when they switched from progessive resistance training using free weights to progressive resistance training using resistance bands they were able to make similar gains in muscle atrophy with much less risk of injury. Some body building coaches claim the same with newbie clients. Again, before someone decides to blindside or sucker punch me for posting this, I am not suggesting this to be true. I am not speaking from personal experience. I just started experimenting with BFR bands, and don’t have enough experience with BFR bands or resistance band training to even anecdotally make such claims.
hypertrophy, not atrophy
I can’t do squats or leg press without groin pain, but I found out I can do the quad extension machine and walking lunges pain free. I’m sticking with those two for now. I’ll try to do squats and/or leg press again in a couple of weeks.
How did it go?
I can’t overemphasize the point about progressing slowly into your heavy set. On leg day, if squatting is my first exercise, I can spend 20 to 30 minutes on sub max sets. I start with 100 lbs, crank out 20 reps, add more weight, 17 reps, add more, 15 reps, add more, 13 reps, add more, 10 reps. Now ready for the 3 working heavy sets.
it depends on how you condition your body. but then, everyone is different. on leg day, i start with 1/4 the max weight and do the regular amount of reps. increase to 1/2 and do same amount of reps, then fully load up the weights and do the regular amount of reps. rest for at least 1 minute, then do 6 sets at the regular amount of reps. regular reps=25. legs were conditioned by doing kettlebell swings, backward and forward lunges with kettlebells, med ball slams with side sprints, gimbala 20-sec on 2-min off on elliptical machine, official tabata doing burpees, crab kicks, kick throughs, mountain climbers.
Great topic Layne very much appreciated.
When I was recovering from two ruptured Achilles they only had me do dynamic stretches. I also did yoga with very little static stretches. It’s all a movement. I always noticed when I did static stretching my athleticism and explosiveness went down noticeably.
Static stretching does not harm performance when done after or hours an away from activity. And in fact, we see athletes outside of studies that stretch hips and calves increases mobility and allows better movement patterns. I’d say that qualifies as risk reduction. Studies aren’t everything. They’re a good starting guide.
PFFFFTTTTT! I've been lifting hard for 10 years. of course, i had injuries at the beginning. it all stopped when I stretched, foam rolled, warmed up, cooled down, and lifted with proper form. never had an injury ever again. stretching included BOTH static and dynamic stretching, depending on what was being stretched. finally, i've NEVER done a 1-rep max, EVER! so many guys at the gym get injured doing that.
Outstanding info thanks Dr. Layne
Thank you for another wonderful and informative video.
Dr Andrew huberman made a video on stretching that seems to contradict what you're saying. I looked up some studies on stretching and it does seem to help with certain things. For example a meta-analysis on neck pain showed its to be beneficial in reducing the pain. If you respond to this I'll send you the links to some studies 😄
Dr stefi Cohen also recommends using stretching to improve squats and prevent injury. I assume she knows what she is talking about since she has a doctorate in physical therapy and has 20 world records in weight lifting
Great advice! 👍
Totally attest to this! All of my injuries happened when I underslept.
One thing to keep in mind is that stretching still has other benefits. For example, stretching your hamstrings can reduce lower back pain caused by pelvic displacement from hamstrings being too tight.
Physio here, what even is pelvic displacement? Are you talking about the mythical lower-cross syndrome?
I do agree with you, static stretching definitely has a time and place, but I am very VERY reserved with it in my practice. I almost only use it for post-surgical patients who need to recover their ROM.
Needs evidence.
@@RostamTorki I mean, it’s not a full displacement but tight hamstrings can cause lower back pain. I used to work with quite a few physical therapists at our hospital and one of them told me this and it’s worked for me ever since. I realize placebo could be at play here.
Thank you Layne, I've been trying to find a good way to spend more time locked in a room with hoards of spiders. Great suggestions!
BIG UP FROM FRANCE Bro !
This information was very helpful.
I did my first hamstring injury and did what you are saying, it improved, but not properly really. I did it again pulling a light trailer, I was run down. I started incorporating some deep massage into the region, it seems to have pretty much got to 100%, in the same period. I wasn't one for massage, but I now think it can have its uses. I wouldn't totally discount static stretching, like you can do a static, then the dynamic and move back to the static, then the dynamic again. After a hard day and you don't have energy for dynamic, some static can make you feel good
Watching biolayne reduces injury
Amazing video! Thank you! 🙏
thank you, very helpful! lunges are causing knee pain so ill try your tips
As always gteat stuff from the Jedi Master of training information...You and Dr Mike are gods in my training universe :-)
To avoid injuries I prefer high rep, about 15 and focus on eccentrics. It's just as effective for building muscle as low rep and I'm not going to rip any muscles because the load is much lower than I would use on a 8 rep.
Great video as always. I was doing this active recovering without knowing. Basically I don't want to give up on those gains, so I try to make the exercise "easier" for the muscle, while still doing it. Often worked out great.
This is excellent. Thank you
Yeah this makes sense with what I've seen so far. I'm way less experienced, but with my shoulder/elbow issues, the answer seems to have been to stay mobile and keep working the muscles in a way that does not hurt, while also fixing muscular imbalances / strengthening stabilizing muscles or whatever my coach suspects is the underlying issue. But taking a long break from training as a whole is not usually necessary or helpful. And that's really a good thing-I'm able to be much more consistent on maintaining my overall physique now, since I'm not letting my training totally fall off at any point. Even with injuries, I'm working out and keeping most of my muscles doing something.
This is a very interesting video. Couple of comments:
1. If you suffer a serious traumatic tear to a muscle- say a hamstring, there is no way you will be able to work through it like this. The body will send massive amounts of blood to the affected area which will swell and turn black. The only initial treatment that works is ice, compression and elevation. Yes it’s best to maintain motion as much as possible from the get go. Also applies to medium tears; that’s why you see footballers and rugby players hobbling off the field and immediately getting ice cling filmed onto the affected muscle to minimise the severity.
2. Agree that stretching is not an effective injury prevention technique and is counter productive prior to strength training due to loss of muscular tendon stiffness. However for pre-existing conditions it can be highly effective in keeping mobile and preventing triggers of muscle spasms eg with unstable lumbar vertebrae.
Can you do another video around other modalities people think reduces injury risk like massage, acupuncture, ice baths etc?
Jesse macLeay Dr of Kinesiology spoke of this 50 years ago as Summation of Stress
Dynamic warmup >>> static stretching