It's Not Calories. It's Hormones. | Responding to Dr. Jason Fung | Educational Video | Biolayne
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Recently Dr. Jason Fung appeared on Tom Bilyeu's podcast "Impact Theory" to discuss his nutritional approaches. A 2:47 clip from this podcast was circulated widely on instagram regarding Jason's views on calories and hormones. In this clip he makes various dubious claims regarding energy balance (calories in vs. calories out), metabolic adaptation, and hormones. In this video I breakdown his claims and the science (or lack thereof) to support them.Get my new nutrition coaching app: www.joincarbon.com
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Here are my weight loss numbers if I only weighed myself once a week from last week.
Thur to Thur. Up 1.2 pounds
Fri to fri. Down 1 pound.
Sat to Dat Down 1 pound
Sun to Sun Down 4.2 pounds
Mon to mom down 2.8 pounds
Tue to Tue down 0.8 pounds
Wed to wed down 3 pounds.
This is why weighing yourself once a week is almost useless. I’m very consistent with my diet and exercise and each day of the week would have given me wildly different data.
I weigh myself once a week, consistently on Sunday morning. I wake up, I go to the bathroom, I drink one glass of water, and I weigh myself on a scale that also estimates body fat percentage. If you keep in mind that your weight will fluctuate a little this is still a useful method, over the course of a long period of time consistent results will emerge similar to what you'd see if you weighed daily and took an average.
For most people, knowing exactly how much you weigh isn't important. Weekly weighing is less accurate than daily and taking an average, but if you have no requirements on your actual weight, who cares? If we accept that we may be up a little or down a little on a daily basis, what does it even mean to say "I weigh X" at a specific moment in terms of accuracy? It'll probably only matter to people who undertake activities by weight class.
@@Melesniannon "most people" won't be watching layne.
You drink water before weighing yourself? Wack!
@@cgibbons2673 Why's that "wack"? You think the amount of water in a person's body who lives a normal life is somehow a constant factor? It's one of the things that causes such weight fluctuations.
Since I weigh in the morning and haven't typically hydrated for 7-8 hours I am more hydrated than I'd be under normal circumstances where my weight might actually matter, not that, and this is the point, in most practical situations for most people that 1-2 pounds actually matters.
So it doesn't really matter that I drink a bit of water before weighing, what matters is that I drink the same amount of water so I still have a consistent measurement. All that requires is using the same glass. What matters is that I compare my current state against my previous state in a consistent manner so I can track changes.
@@Melesniannon lol, you totally contradicted yourself. It is just plain dumb, I can't believe you shared this.
When you go on vacation do you take your glass away with you? Is it like a safety blanket
@@cgibbons2673 How did I contradict myself? Please cite the two statements which cannot simultaneously be true.
And no, obviously not, but then I don't take my scale with me on vacation either, doofus. What kind of obsessive person even thinks like that?
And what kind of narrowminded person wouldn't immediately understand that if I WOULD want to maintain consistency in that scenario, all I need to know is the volume of the glass? You think finding a 200 ml container is hard?
Try to make more sense instead of relying on desperate insults.
You can show me a million studies and tell me a bunch of technical jargon. But nothing beats the convenience of not having to eat every moment of the day.
why would you want to eat every moment of the day?
@@dadadudududa5500 Cope, stress eating, bingeing, general lifestyle of some people etc
I see low carb/fasting as a tool to lose weight, not a magic pill. For me, it massively controls my hunger and therefore makes it easier to keep calories in a deficit.
this
Bingo. It was especially beneficial during the winter when it was easier to fast due to shorter days. Bleaker days as well.
Yes! 👍😁
Exactly , and fasting doesn't cause the same crash I experienced when dieting for 7 years prior to fasting . I tried keto, low carb (low cal diet) I tried over ans over and always plateaued at a certain point felt like crap usually 3 months in and couldn't keep up which caused me to regain the weight back in a few months .
Fasting was the solution I was looking for my whole life. I do adf I don't count calories , I dropped 10 kilos from 87.5 to 77.5, weight loss stopped hunger went up a bit then it died down again now I'm perfectly adapted at around 80kg for like 7 months into it. I perform even better energy wise when fasted than fed. Will get blood work done and see how it has impacted my blood plasma in all this time.
These things are very complicated and it would be wrong to claim one superior over the other . Just try it all and see what works long term and stick to it I'd say .
I was constantly hungry & fatigued on Keto. It changed for me when I went low fat, high whole carb. I "only" fast for about 14 - 16 hours every day. So, I have the opposite experience. 🙂
Calorie matter. I've learned the hard way. I still love the keto/if lifestyle but it's misleading for people to say calories don't matter. When Fung starts telling people who have plateaued to completely fast three full days a week, that's when I realized this is a calorie restricted diet in disguise.
Fasting naturally puts you in a calorie deficit and it drives me bonkers that Fung and his crew won’t admit calories are part of the equation.. I actually heard a podcast where Megan Ramos stated you can eat to “satiety” and still lose weight. They stay carefully worded in this area but guess what - not eating 42hrs and then having 2 meals to “satiety” such as with ADF - puts you in a natural calorie deficit. I agree with Fung that fasting and hormones are a valuable part of the equation that has been overlooked when it comes to CICO. But he wants to act like he reinvented the wheel (likely for profit). I mean - who wants to go on another calorie restricted diet. In my opinion as an RDN, calories will always be part of the equation, but all the parts have to come together for it to work. Denial is not the answer.
Is the fasting results to lower insulin levels. If you don’t have an obesity diabetic problem your gym and diet works until you get older and that doesn’t work s as my more. Been there and done that.
You aren’t old enough s as md diabetic to understand it and give your opinion on this matter because you aren’t a scientist or a physician to give an educational podcast to give your research opinion 😊
@@Paloma1977 I am actually a type 1 diabetic and a practicing clinical dietitian in my 40s. I would gather that would give me more ground to comment than most, but I digress. I’m not exactly sure what your argument is? No one is denying fasting works by addressing hormone changes that occur with aging which contributes to its success. However it is completely obvious fasting 42hrs 3x/week is putting a person in a calorie deficit. It’s likely a combo of both that gets results. So if it looks, talks, walks like a duck, it’s a duck! Why the lack of transparency? I think it is because it pads the pockets of those not telling the full truth. Overall, glad you found something that works for you - no matter what you want to call it.
@@dianaflood968 completely agree. Fung looks completely dumb when he says that even in a caloric deficit you'll not lose weight if you eat constantly. Bro, just look at the gym bros. Most of them eat constantly, but they are experts at losing body fat, they know that you just need to cut calories. For me personally it's much easier to be in a caloric deficit when I eat just 1 or 2 meals. Because I tend to eat a lot at a time, so I couldn't eat just 1 orange and wait 3 hours. I'd rather eat 2 slices of whole bread with 2 eggs, 2 oranges, 1 banana and 1 apple, feel good then eat the next day.
@@Paloma1977
A calorie deficit does not “stop” working for people above 50.
That is a flat out lie.
No one needs fasting, it is just an optional tool to induce calorie deficit.
It would be great if you could have Dr. Jason Fung in your podcast and have an in-depth conversation about your points and his.
Agreed!
No chance .. all he does is slag people off
I somehow don't thing j fumg will want to be in this guys company he's a rip roaring narcississt.
Debate Prof Bart Kay too ..
he will rip lame a new one
@@tifqureshi3895 oh big time but it will never happen,narc Lane would never allow it as he knows what will happen.
I find that Dr. Jason Fung is correct in that food does affect hormones. It is definitely easier for me to fast or eat a keto diet, than to eat a diet that is low calorie but contains a lot of carbs. When I fast and/or eat keto it give me more will power, so I don't cheat. And I am also not as hungry, so I eat less food (and yes, less calories). For me, controlling my hormones through food has a HUGE benefit. If I just simply tried to limit my calories, I would not be able to lose weight and end up hating myself for not being able to control how much I eat. I think Dr. Fung realizes that there are a lot of people like me out there, who do not have a lot of medical or diet training and therefore he may be over simplifying his explanations. However, I still think a lot of what he says has value. When I watch Dr. Fung's videos, I understand him easily and when I apply what he says, I get results.
Keto does not affect hormones, well it affects insulin. You can stay on a keto diet because fat is more filling that’s why. But not because of insulin. There are people who don’t function without carbs, me being one of them.
It’s not the hormones it’s your body’s preferred source of energy. And most of the humans, biologically function on glucose.
Keto is just an adaptation where your body produces pseudo carbohydrates from fat. If you know the physiology behind it you will see it’s just an emergency survival
mechanism
Learn how to manipulate calories to your advantage . Volume eating + flexible dieting is the key to sustainable weight loss. Make lower calorie versions of the foods you love , I eat burritos , breakfast egg and potatos bowls , pastas , chili cheese fries , air fried chicken sandwiches , burgers etc. and allow them all to fit in a 2200 calorie diet . It’s not that hard I promise
" when I apply what he says, I get results." Because you are operating at a caloric deficit. Extended fasting and/or intermittent fasting is basically a cheat code for caloric restriction. If you aren't eating 2 days a week, for example, you're almost definitely gonna consume less calories per week. That doesn't mean his "science" isn't bogus, because most of it is.
@@ajejegroz9080 protein tends to be the satieting aspect of foods on a keto diet. Your body can make glucose from fat and from complete proteins. Most people won't eat everything in an animal so they will need some form of carbohydrate to get all their micronutrients and/or supplement it. People can do all meat diets and be fine. There is a transition phase to using fat as a preferred fuel source, it's not just a genetic factor it's a behavioral one.
@tanya Spot on. His target audience is lay people, not scientists. At the end it is energy balance, but, I found that IF is a lot easier to stick to. A year on and I down 35lbs at 152. Unfortunately 25% of that was lean body mass per my dexa scan so now I lift 4xweek. Love the content here.
I think its nicer to go have a talk with Jason (podcast?), because you state things, that I think is not matching the things Jason say. When understanding eachother precisely, the discussion would be very interesting >> new video? :D
Nice discussion, but I must say that Dr Fung benefitted me
I was never obese, and the highest i weighted was 180lbs (82 Kg), and I am 175 cm tall.
I decided to cut weight and my goal was 145-150 lbs. I started with the normal high carbs, low fat, high protein diet, only whole and natural foods that i cooked myself. I ate 5-6 meals a day as recommended and exercised 4-5 times a week. it was difficult, because I was always hungry and even cold, but I am with very high self-discipline so I was strict regardless of my hardship. Then, after 2 months however, I have heard Dr Jason Fung, and started intermittent fasting and keto. I must say, that it was much easier for me: I didn't feel hungry at all, and I didn't feel cold.
I agree with you. Dr.fungs approach helped me too. I don't exercise and have lost 25lb with low carb diet and intermittent fasting. I've done this 3 times. Everytime I go off of it I gain the weight back, but when I stick to this diet I lose weight.
@@HSS787 And that's awesome. Dr Fung has a philosophy. If he believes that, fine, if it helps SOME people, better again. The issue is Dr Fung, with no real evidence rubbishing pretty well established facts.
The thing with Dr Fung's advice is that it works but not what he thinks. Intermittent fasting and keto only works because you're still eating less calories. If you did those things but still overate you would gain fat anyway
@@JerseyJake98 as a biologist, i totally disagree with the construct and concept that you are repeating - by which i mean to calories. calorie is nothing but a measure of energy in a closed thermodynamic system. it has nothing to do with fat loss or fat gain. what you just said about ketogenic diet and fasting is exactly true about the calories rubbish - by which i mean that the only reason people lose weight or gain weight when they are in caloric deficit or surplus respectively, is because they are eating less or eating more respectively. there is nothing about calories themselves and its freaking nonsense to think of food as calories in a closed thermodynamic system like bomb calorimeter
@itamar.j.rachailovich As another biologist, you throwing around "closed energy system" as if ot bolsters your claim of how it affects fat loss or fat gain in a non appreciative way is off the fucking planet incorrect. Was physics also a part of your biology background? Because if it was, you'd understand the thermodynamics of how this works. Just because an isolated variable operates in a vacuum a certain way, does NOT negate the reality of its effect on a system with variances. You act like calories only work in a vacuum. Your body changing its ability to process calories does not negate the caloric argument. CICO is a PHYSICAL LAW, my g. Just because there are variables that change the equation does not mean the answer still isn't either net gain or net loss. This shit isn't that complicated....
he didnt say insulin makes you hungry. he said high glycemic carbs spike insulin which then causes blood sugar to fall so glucagon is blocked which raises ghrelin which signifies hunger.
All this video is misunderstanding every word Jason Fung says.
@@ReflejoPositivo9898 ya its more of a nitpicking rather than debunking. He needs to understand the context.
Even then studies showed that increase in insulin produced increased hunger and food take as well like sweet and sugary foods and on top of that a study showed that how different insulin levels produced by the type of food ingested may affect subsequent food intake
I agree with all the above comments. The best explanation I have ever heard of calories in vs calories out is how this is a complete oversimplification and if true and a person is always in a calorie deficit then eventually they'd whither away to nothing. Hormones supercede that equation. He makes too fine a point here and his argument whithers away to nothing
Medical doctor that sees patients daily vs some jerkoff with phd with no patient interaction and uses his phd to get people to buy supplements that u don’t need at all.
The thing about bmr I think Fung has the same mindset. I have seen all his videos I don't think he ever had the context of body simply deciding to not burn the 500 calorie. In his longer videos he does explain why slowly slowly the metabolism decreases. He never said metabolism would decrease in one day.
Have you seen the 100 dollars part? He literally says ''today'' @24:10
I believed this guy a couple of years ago. I did keto. I did IF. Neither of which were sustainable but worked because of calorie restriction. I returned to the gym 5 weeks ago after getting into running during COVID. I’m down 3.5 lbs eating a balanced diet w/ 1:1 g/protein to body weight (at least). I’m sure it’s not 5 pounds in 5 weeks due to some muscle re growth and/or inconsistency tracking. But it works. Thank you for continuing to get the message out. My wife and I wasted a lot of time traveling down rabbit holes
After all this time, people still don't understand the point of IF. They think it's about weight loss. It's not about weight loss. It's about autophagy, reducing inflammation, and blood glucose control over time. It's about improved focus and giving your body a respite to heal. Can those things help (keyword) while trying to achieve weight loss? Yes. But at the end of the day, calories in vs calories out is all that really matters for weight loss. If you eat 2500 calories per day, and burn 2500 calories per day, it doesn't really matter when you eat, you are not going to lose any meaningful weight. (all of this assumes you have no dysfunction)
Three rules to live by:
1. Move or die (exercise)
2. Calories in vs. calories out (weight management)
3. You are what you eat (overall health)
IF is a tool. It's not meant to be a weight loss tool.
One thing I'd like to see nutritionists start to push is the idea that consuming anything at all causes damage to your organs, and you need to give your body a chance to recover from that damage as well as control how much damage is being done by the food that is being consumed. The problem is that message is easily lost in transmission and can lead to very dangerous eating disorders if not understood properly. I'm not saying not to eat. I'm saying to be extremely picky about what calories you consume. The goal is to consume as few calories as possible while not sacrificing your goals.
(Also, eating absolutely nothing for extended periods of time can also damage organs. There's a balance.)
im having the opposite effect rn
after listening to dr fund ive lost 13 pounds in 1 week
sure half of it is water
hut thats almost as much as ive lost in the past year and a half doing other protocols.
look into rolling 72 hour fasts
it gets easier with time
and you get fast results
personally i love it
combining it with keto seems like the way to go
@@flyingbanana971272 hour fasts give your internal body (organs) a chance to recover from the damage you do to them every time you consume food. I think Keto is a fantastic diet to follow. But weight loss mainly boils down to calories in vs. calories out. Yes, there can be some extenuating factors there like water retention, bloating, etc that can be relieved through some other means and result in some quick wins. However, long term, calories in vs calories out is the big winner. When you couple that with picking the highest quality calories, or calories of a certain type (fats and proteins over carbs) then you can supercharge your health on top of losing weight and prevent destroying your body's insulin sensitivity.
@@user-ij5ky4lr3x - I both agree and disagree with you. The point of IF is different for different people. I IF strictly to control my blood sugar. I have gout, and keeping my blood sugar down reduces the uric acid in my body, which keeps the flare-ups away. I fell off the wagon recently, started eating way more sugar than I should (#*$!ed angel cream donuts!) and ignoring my fasting hours, and as a result, have been struggling with a gout attack for the past two days. I don't care if I lose a pound or healing my body, whatever that is. IF is a tool, true, but a tool isn't always used for the same purpose. It's like saying you can only use a screwdriver to turn a screw when you know darned well, you've used one as an icepick or to open a can of paint.
I.f. definitely helps weight loss but there's so many other benefits that come along with it
Maybe someone can explain to me?
Let's say someone's insulin is high all day (especially important for people with insulin resistance) due to frequent snacking of high GI carbs, but with a restricted daily calorie intake. Assuming insulin hinders fat oxidation, if the extra necessary energy is not coming from fat (because insulin is hindering that energy pathway), where is it coming from? Isn't this situation going to lead to a low energy state (where you can't mobilize fat, but at the same time you have low glucose) which is gonna make you feel miserable (low energy, high hunger)?
Isn't that the main point from Jason, that you need to give your body a window of low insulin to facilitate the mobilization of the fat, and as a result your calorie restriction will be more successful long term?
What studies contradict that idea?
That is exactly Fung’s thesis. And in my personal experience, he’s right. With IF and low carb diet I’ve lost 45 lbs and reversed my T2 diabetes in the last 4 months. I don’t feel hungry, I haven’t had to dick about with calorie counting and I have more energy and motivation to work out. I think the key point is that you need a calorie deficit AND a reduction in insulin to successfully lose fat, and for it to be sustainable. I’ve done calorie restriction before and lost a bit of weight, but felt lethargic, constantly tired, constantly hungry, cold and generally miserable AF. Inevitably my willpower eventually cracked and I piled the weight back on, and some extra.
After years of not really changing my body composition by eating the "right" foods that make my hormones the right way (though I do admit I wasn't so strict as guys like Dr. Domonic D'Agosinto would say is the "correct" way and probably never really got in ketosis), the changes began right away the moment I bought a food scale and ensured a calorie deficit.
Why you want calorie deficit u wanna get sick?
@@randyhollier A (small - 500 cal or less) calorie deficit will not make you sick. In actuality, small calorie deficits (+ as long as you are getting adequate nutrition!) are linked to anti-ageing in mammalian studies. Your body produces less mitochondrial free radicals/oxidative species - these are normally produced in small amounts through the mitochondrial electron transport chain. They're very reactive and cause damage to proteins (enzymes, transcription factors, etc.) and DNA. Over time, the damage accumulates, leading to symptoms of ageing like DNA mutations which create misfolded (dysfunctional) proteins and enzymes, and with age, the body's own clearance system of these proteins is less efficient, so those also build up and can aggregate leading to disease. Caloric restriction has shown to reduce the amount of free radicals produced vs. mammals on a non-restricted diet. If you're interested in reading more I can point you to some journal articles :)
@@pseudonym3733 i disagree. Hunger is a physiological response to low food intake it means your body is breaking homeostasis to survive the percieved food shortage
@@randyhollier Mild caloric restriction or hunger are not the same as starvation. Starvation is a type of caloric deficit technically, but an extremely large one that is much too low to function or obtain adequate nutrition. We are not taking about that. Maybe you overestimate how much 500 calories is? For instance, in my cupboard I have a bag of chocolate raisins (150g), this small bag is 630 calories. My maintenance is 2300 calories. If I eat 1800 in meals/other snacks, and this bag of raisins, I'll stay the same weight. But if I skip the bag of raisins, I'm in a 500 cal deficit with no issues. You can disagree with scientific evidence all you want - i offered to send you the articles - but don't fear monger and spread misinformation that is not based on fact or a true understanding of what is being suggested.
@@pseudonym3733 I am not spreading misinformation all the conclusion i reached are a priori logical deductions. If you disagree with logic thats your problem. Go to my vid and comment if you want proof this section is heavily moderated ...
Layne: "If you're somebody that paces or fidgets, that's NEAT."
Me: Well, thank you my dear sir.
4:56
Thanks for including the time stamp, I went back and listened
Layne is so nice lol
I did STRICTLY keto for 2 years! My LDL skyrocketed and that was it for me! Never over 20 grams of carbs daily
90 to 175 in a year on keto. When my doc called frantic for me to see a cardiologist, it scared me.
Low saturated fat, whole food plant-based & fish works really really well. LDL down below 60 now. BMI = 24. Massively diverse & exciting diet.
Very well done. Thorough, well researched & understandable to those of us newer to physiology.
Actually, his message along with several other doctors, researchers, etc., indicated that excessive, frequent eating increases insulin over time, leading to insulin resistance. Thus, causing metabolic syndrome and various other adverse effects. Hunger and satiety are controlled by hormones such as ghrelin and leptin, which also become dysfunctional when insulin remains chronically high. He mentions that in many lectures and his books. Im a grad student in nutrition and have done extensive research in this area. He isn't wrong. You do, however, bring up some good points.
A lot of this comes down to people getting too loyal to a particular ideology. The calorie guys are to blind to look at a different perspective.
Sausen, but is the root cause properly identified by saying insulin is the problem? Or is insulin a problem because (as you said) excessive frequent eating (excess caloric intake) causes the downstream effects that include increased insulin and fat storage?
Key word there is “excessive” frequent eating. Eating fewer calories more number of times a day will not cause weight gain
Insulin is a growth hormone.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18465354/
Excessive eating over YEARS and bad eating of course. If you have to eat 2000 kcal to lose weight it is imposible that you gain weight eating that amount, even if you eat them from junk food or healthy food. You won’t be that healthy like having deficients of vit/min, cholesterol, etc but you are not going to gain weight if you have a calorie deficit.
At the end of the day, i've only been able to lose weight doing some sort of intermittent fasting/lowering carbs, if i lower calories with high carbs I dont seem to lose weight or its too easy to fuck it up. Lower carbs (typically keto) stops hunger. IF makes you eat less too typically.
Keto is bullshit
@@chouchouyummies8861 Then explain how I and millions of others have lost plenty of fat from it? Explain why Drs recommend it to patients now like never before, explain how diabetes reverse their condition by doing keto and intermittent fasting?
Intermittent fasting closes that eating window, so you have fewer opportunities to consume more calories than you need. As for low carb, glycogen requires water, in fact, 1 gram of carbohydrates requires 3 grams of water, so if you are in a caloric deficit and still eat a high carb diet, you will weigh more due to the water, but that doesn’t mean your actual body fat percentage is any higher. It will just take time to see fat loss of you are on a high carb diet due to this as long as you are in a caloric deficit, so in the long term it won’t matter, but in the short term, you will probably see faster weight loss with keto due to cutting carbs, which means losing that 3 grams of water per stored gram of glycogen.
At the end of the day, I always say do what is sustainable for you. I’ve been able to lose over 125 pounds three different times with a high carb diet, because it is what’s sustainable for me. Now losing weight and keeping it off are two different things.
@@limitless484 That’s not true you can eat high calorie foods m fact that what a lot of body builder do when they Intermittently Fast.
@@justchilling704 I never said you couldn't eat high caloric foods during a feeding window, I said that having a feeding window provides less time to eat in a day which will likely equate to lower calories consumed. But the bottom line is, it is all about calories in/out, and if you consume more calories than your body needs in a feeding window, you will still gain fat, regardless of if it is keto, carnivore, or a high carb diet. Like Layne said, Protein has a higher thermic effect as opposed to fats, which means either a larger deficit if you consume a specific number of calories (given your diet is high in protein), or it also means you can consume more food because of the extra calories burned from digesting the protein. Protein also makes it easier for a recomp if that's what you want to do. The best diet to lose weight on is one that you can sustain, whether that is a high protein diet, keto, or a balanced approach, because it is all about the calories consumed/burned.
I actually never thought about it in that way, where if you replace carbohydrate, with protein, you actually get a smaller calorie intake because of the thermic effect of food, interesting and educational as always Hellyeah
The thermic effect of food is pretty tiny if you just eat protein all the time you might just save a hundred calories
@@williammclean6594 yeah, but protein makes you feel more full, so it displaces more calories that you would otherwise eat if you had carbs instead.
My only issue with protein is the increased aging/cancer risk. So I prefer to feel full from high fiber foods
@@gerardt3284 yeah if you look at bodybuilders who eat extreme protein there is evidence that really high levels of protein damages your body like your kidneys. There is also a lot of research that says you don't really need super high levels of protein to build muscle usually 100 grams or a little more is sufficient
@@williammclean6594 they take PED's thats why their organs are so bad, its not the protein intake lmao
Excellent content as usual. Thanks Layne...........
Peoples memories are short. What about Mark Haub the Twinkie guy? Lost 27 lbs eating only Debbie snacks to prove it was calories in calories out. The misinformation is getting to the point where you can’t use the internet anymore to figure things out on your own
Noway i am gonna finish this video. 14:30
Brother what are you talking about. One “big” meal vs eating all day. Why are assuming big meal would increase insulin more. Infact insulin is based on what you eat. If i eat a keto meal omad that will not get my insulin up as a high as someone eating breakfeast cereal or some high refined carb food.
Whenever someone says "calories doesn't matter" I involuntarily giggle a little. That's NEAT.
Very NEAT indeed. Hormones go bmrrrrrr
explaining the huge differences in metabolic rate by "random fiddling" is just a say to say you don't know what causes the difference
That. Also brain uses 20% of your body energy, if you use brain daily - math, software engineers, chess players, researchers and scientists, you study hard , STEM college students etc you consume a lot of energy because brain is a very expensive organ to run.
Brain is NEAT but it isn’t really included?
I'm not on Dr. Fung's payroll or anything, I listen to these "takedown" videos to get a different perspective on his claims. But it always feels like he's being held to a much higher standard than the vast majority of health "experts" online. And the arguments against him always feel like these nitpicky "gotcha!" moments. At 17:21 this video claims that Fung is saying that the body adapts to a 500 calorie deficit by burning 500 calories less. He's not saying that. The video then tries to tidy up the accusation by claiming that the metabolic adaptation that the body is making are real, just small (15%) while ignoring things like NEAT (for example). Also, and the video acknowledges this, the guy looks at research that study the insuligenic effect of food on fat metabolism when Fung's whole thing is fasting. The guy then need to make a few assumptions and leaps in logic to equate the two. Then the video claims that Fung is saying that intermittent fasting leads to weight loss in the absence of being in a caloric deficit. I haven't seen a ton of Fung's videos, but I don't think he's saying that at all. And indeed, the video rightly anticipates that it will be accused of straw-manning Fung's arguments. I think there's definitely some of that.
Perhaps I sympathize with Jason Fung because I'm a teacher and I think his videos are very much like many teachers' lectures. I don't think they're scripted, I think sometimes he's speaking on the fly, he invokes hypothetical or rhetorical numbers as examples to explain a concept to a lay audience. Only to have a bunch of TH-camrs, jump in, name drop, make obtuse interpretations of his claims and deliberately interpret what seems to be hyperbole for dishonesty. At the end of the day it feels like the video's biggest accusation is the effects of intermittent fasting that Fung's touting are small, not false. Also, Fung is a nephrologist who deals with diabetics. I wonder if the effects he claims he's observing are specific to people with high blood sugar, obesity, etc... I really feel as if there's a better way to discuss his claims and maybe tease out the nuance that he's missing, without making it seem like we're bending over backward to punch holes in his every sentence. I'll grant that Fung's not the best speaker, but he's not just some clown with a TH-cam channel either. He's a published scientist and physician.
They're all just trying to ride on the algorithm and get more clicks / views themselves. Shame.
sorry bro he is a quack. Yes his method works. But not for the reason you think. You follow his advice and fast for 20 hours and only eat for 4 you are essentially creating a calorie deficit. you cut carbs out and thats even more calories gone.
@@tomwilson666 Seems to me that doesn't make him a"quack". It's easy for TH-camrs to throw the word around for clicks. I'm going to go with "more research is needed". Especially for diabetics and people prone to high blood sugar. Someone isn't a "quack" because they prescribe a method that works (for whatever reason) and then propose a mechanism.
What bugs me is this guy getting clicks by putting pics of Fung and DeLauer in his thumbnails, dragging them through the mud. It's sleazy.
Fung literally makes several ridiculous claims that are blatantly false which you can figure out by a 5 minute google search. Calories in and calories out works. It’s the only method that works. When you follow Fungs method by fasting you you creating a calorie deficit. Fungs theory and explanation violates the law of conservation of energy and thermodynamics.
@@tomwilson666 Maybe you follow Fung closer than I do, but, from what I remember seeing, he does say you need to maintain a caloric deficit. I've seen (maybe) one click-baity title that implies otherwise, but actually listening to him, he does acknowledge a caloric deficit is necessary for weight loss.
Do these assertions take into the consideration of insulin resistance or obesity? I feel like a healthy person and an obese person have totally different metabolic behaviors. I hope you can address this for me. Thanks for your research!
You are correct. If you put on fat above your fat threshold you get type 2 diabetes. The only route out is weight loss.
Exactly.
They don't they lose weight just as fast.
Different dietary behaviors yes, metabolic behaviors no. You CAN cause permanent metabolic damage due to long term morbid obesity but that doesn't mean the mechanisms for weight loss are no longer there. You cannot sustain a specific body size without replenishing resources you constantly lose.
Insulin is a growth hormone.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18465354/
Interesting phenomenon about weighing and charting.
I weigh myself every morning also after leaving the wash room and chart the number. Fluctuations up and down occurs but I’m generally losing about 1% a week.
In daily meal preparation two of my many meals, that I divide into 4, I spice with a couple tablespoons of garlic powder.
I ran out of the powder and accidentally replaced the powder with garlic salt yesterday! Upon eating the meals I discovered my error and drank fluids like an ox before and after an intense workout and 45 minutes on the track.
This morning I gained seven pounds in water retention!
Hormones may play a bigger role when you are moderate to severely obese, but I think this has to do with compounding factors related to obesity, including insulin insensitivity and disruptions in sleep cycles from sleep apnea etc., leading to reduction in testosterone and an increase of cortisol from adrenal fatigue. It took me 9 months to go from 180 to 250 lbs in took me 2 1/2 months to go from 250 to 300 eating relatively the same thing (with no exercise) . loosing weight was still cals in cals out, with exercise.
I don't think i slept for 8 hours completly after I hit about 250 - 255
This comment right here is really useful
Your body can only burn so much fat in one day, but it's easy to binge and eat way more calories in a single day. This is why fat gain can happen so fast compared to fat loss.
I know you said you ate relatively the same thing, but if you didn't strictly count your calories, it's hard to tell
Adrenal Fatigue doesn't exist.
@@jesmondo5785 Ok, It's still a good catch all term for symptoms related to lack of sleep and an increase in stress hormones.
I’ve been waiting so long for this
So my endocrinologist was lying when he said that my insulin resistance was contributing to my difficulty in losing weight?
Can I sue him for malpractice?
Great video. My only addition is that at 13:04 you reference a study where the conclusion was people eating less on the high carb diet. The study is labeled "Ad Libitum Energy Intake..." Unlike the previous study you discuss where calorie intake is controlled the "Ad Libitum" study participants could eat as much as they wanted. (which is what Ad Libitum means - as much as desired). So the conclusion is more relevant considering that's the world most of us live in, one where we can eat however much we want.
I agree. My mom has diabetes. She was able to lost 20 kg while eating carbs all the time. She was eating the same but less. And the result was, after loosing weight- her insulin levels are now way better.
What carbs did she eat? Twinkies, pizza and pasta?
Numerous studies have found that weight loss, in particular fat loss can reverse diabetes, or at least significantly improve it, i.e. it almost normalizes glucose tolerance. Low carbs without weight/fat loss just mask the symptoms.
That is very encouraging to hear!
Do you understand that most carbs turn into sugar?!
@@rumble2468 most of what you’re saying is absolutely true but low carb being a mask is not true because one of the biggest problems a diabetes patient has is insulin resistance. And lowering your insulin helps your cells getting their sensitivity back.
Anyways at the end what is important is building muscle and eat as clean as possible ofcourse.
Very educational. Well done.
Great discussion on the misconception and confusions. As an engineer I find people confuse the basic law with their own measurements or the tools they use for measuring their own calorie input. And as a righteous human being that we are, of course the nature law doesn’t work and we are perfect! And this gives motivation to every person who want to find a niche that appeals to mass to undermine and muddles the facts.
The way I was introduced to IF yrs ago was a way to help reduce calories but as yrs go on it’s become something more. I love ADF because it’s the easiest way for me to personally control my calories. I use MFP to track my weekly calories. Making sure I’m in at least a 3500 calorie deficit. Also I have slow digestion and have a day break from eating helps with bloating and pain MASSIVELY. It’s saved me in multiple ways
I also don’t count my exercise calories in my calorie intake because I don’t believe the numbers lol
I burn more calories from pacing than I do from working out 🤣
I followed keto diet and did intermittent fasting per Jason Fung's advice and his books. I found that it was unsustainable for me. I got sick of eating eggs, meat, and nonstarchy vegetables. I would always crave carbs and ended up eating more than 50 grams carbs every few days. I kept restarting the keto diet and blaming myself that I couldn't stick to a strict keto diet. It wasn't until my husband tried keto and had the same problem with craving carbs that I decided it was the diet's fault. Despite what Jason Fung says the human body really likes carbs for energy. Overall I was miserable when I ate less than 50 grams of carbs a day. I feel so much better when I eat carbs with my meals. I now follow The Mayo Clinic Diabetes Diet book and I eat fruit with every meal and have smaller portions of carbs and protein at meals so I don't overeat calories. I lost weight doing this and feel much better doing this.
Excellent!!! A wealth of information.
So sick of doc fungus lack of accurately explaining info. I think he might be doign it on purpose. Glad Layne Norton does not back down from explaining truths
I’ve lost over 160 pounds using some of your advice.
@Greg Doucette i want to know if we eat 4000 calories of wooden chips would we get fat because of caloric surplus as per cico
Doc fungus =))) it's so true and annoying that normal people would rather listen to doctor idiot that has nothing to do with losing weight, but not listen to a bodybuilder that does that for his job
What's your thought on Type 2 diabetes and diet. That is what his specialty is, Half the population has Type 2
@@CathyRodriguez34 more than half the population is overweight and sedentary, I think that answers the question.
I could almost cry by watching this video, I’m on a weight loss journey myself and I’ve been trying hard to get from 280lb to 215lb and I came across yourself, Peter attia, Kevin hall and fung and I got a bit obsessed with fung and his IF fasting but there was just something that kept bugging me about the way he was talking about weight loss and I felt so overwhelmed thinking I have no idea what I’m doing and and I even bought his book and 500g of green tea and I am so so so glad I watched this video it has really helped put things into perspective. I’ve also read that Harvard review on IF for weight loss, I’ve never read a scientific publication before I just feel great after reading that! I think I’m going to go back to my breakfasts and not have to obsess over food as much. Thanks layne!!!!!
Good luck on the journey! Yeah it's sad that someone from the scientific community (Fung) makes so many claims that go against scientific evidence, and that to make a profit. Goes to show how important it is to hear different perspectives from multiple experts. Very cool that you sought out different views and read a science article!
th-cam.com/video/u77CeVIN-eI/w-d-xo.html eating a big breakfast might actually help you on your weight loss journey (for certain individuals)
th-cam.com/video/gFNJ-sNIu6U/w-d-xo.html
this one might be more sustainable long term
Breakfasts are not for everyone, if they are for you then eat them.
It won’t affect your weight loss given the daily/weekly calories are in a deficit.
Personally I eat fruit/fiber for breakfast and berries for late night snack with a protein shake.
This helps me stay full before breakfast and before lunch.
Fasting is a type of calorie restriction, however, fasting changes one's relationship with food, whereas, simply counting calories doesn't have this effect. At this very moment I'm doing serious dieting, serious meaning that if I don't get it right I die or at minimum something terrible happens, e.g. MI, stroke, kidney failure... I have to get this right. I carefully monitor my calories, exercise, and do my best to eat clean. The bottomline is that there are not a lot of fat old people walking around, we need to be lean to bend the odds in our favor toward longevity. I'm not a physiologist, however, I am an expert in behavior and understand that the reason for any problem we have in our life is we are unconscious. That's why calorie counting is important, it makes us conscious of what and how much food we are consuming. I get what Layne is saying but he clearly doesn't know the difference between what diabetic food cravings are and the normal food craving of a healthy person. The only reason I know is because I've been on both ends of the spectrum. I was once a college athlete, fit on a level most will never experience, to where I am now, a 60 year old, morbidly obese, type II diabetic. I am currently winning the battle to lose weight and restore my health; of all the methods I've tried, fasting alone worked best, however, it wasn't sustainable. The way I started winning was by listening to a variety of sources, like Fung et. al.. there is no cookie cutter approach to this, you must find a way that works for you and is logically sound.
I've lived long enough and known enough people, to have seen that vigilantly taking care of one's self backfire. We will all die, everyone in this feed will likely be forgotten when their last close relative dies. Think of it this way; if your life is short you may miss out on a lot of cool stuff but you will also miss out on a lot of suffering. If you live into old age, you will likely see every intimate relationship you've ever had, end. I was in an old folks home working, I'm an outside contractor; I had to quarantine a woman for ten days; "is there anyway you can get me out of quarantine?", she asked. I'm sorry mam, the restriction is required but it's only ten days. She looked me square in the eye and said; "ten days is a lot of time". She was right, when your life is at it's end, ten days may be the difference between seeing the sunlight again or dying alone in a hospital room. We love to think of how in control we are of this and that, we don't control anything, we are odds benders, at best. So don't panic, do your best, figure out what works for you, and you maybe you get a few more a good days.
aw bro been waiting for this
Important notes:
10:55
13:50
18:43
I weigh myself before lifting weights. I'm on a 3-day split, so I use that average for the week. Is interesting to see how much one's weight can fluctuate through the week.
I recently discovered the idea of alternate day fasting and it really appealed to me, I find when I start eating in the day I find it really hard to create a deficit because I feel hungry a lot of the time, with fasting I can create a nice deficit over 36hrs and when I eat I tend to not be able to go over 2500 calories when I eat decent food (stir fries, meats, fruit, Greek yoghurt etc) and I feel full. People should 100% think of these ways of eating as trying to find a meal plan that suits their lifestyle and fits in with their goals.
Awesome video, man! Thanks!
for me IF / time restricted eating is more sustainable than having to count calories on a daily basis and tracking my food. I always have fallen off the radar with the calorie counting method.
Both of course work and one does have so much health benefits as like Dr Fung said every religion world wide practise fasting . It’s a lifestyle and not a diet which for me works pretty well and potentially one would think that I would I be on a calorie deficit anyways without really knowing it, but I love what Dr fung says that IF is a lifestyle and don’t work your lifestyle around it but work it around your lifestyle.
Calorie counting takes time and for me I go of track and it isn’t sustainable long term . Etc I have a good friend who calorie counts to a tee and won’t even go out to a restaurant to eat because he said I quote ‘ I won’t know how many calories are in the meal or even a homemade meal’
That isn’t sustainable for life .
Both work
But I would choose Intermittent fasting over daily calorie counting 10 times out of 10.
Aswel
My sleep has been Amazing on IF
one thing I really notice for sure.
Balance’ that is the key to health and wellness.
My conclusion is try both and do what works for you but fasting all in all studies show have so much profound health benefits to your health and well-being .
I highly recommend Dr Jason fungs book called “The complete guide to fasting”
I highly recommend you read his book (obesity code) for full context for what he's trying to say. I agree calories matter and that hormones matter too. His short youtube video doesn't do justice to his work because he oversimplifies it for time i think. His main thing is that calories shouldn't be the only focus. The 500 calorie examples are for long term, not for short term, hence why most diets fail.
I’m not going to read his shitty book. I’m not putting words in his mouth. I literally showed you what he said
@@biolayne1 you can't say it's shitty if you haven't read it lol. I don't blindly follow anyone, but it's always good to read and research all view points and be skeptical on everyone.
I'm not saying you're putting words in his mouth. I'm saying he explains things better and more clearly in his book. He has the same exact energy equations that you mentioned there. I disagree with this video clip of his too.
@@biolayne1 Bullshit, you took a couple minute clip out of context and tried to refute it. You saying "his shitty book" just proves you're trying to create a name for yourself by being edgy and contrary. You will fail.
@@biolayne1 classy reply. Nice.
@@biolayne1 arrogant
Hey there my ADHD laden brethren! ...heard you on Dr. Peter Attia's podcast a few weeks ago and have been binge watching your TH-cam channel ever since. I sincerely appreciate the real science. I also heard Dr. Fung on Dr. Attia's podcast and thought he sounded pretty legit but I didn't dive into his stuff like I did yours. Thanks for shining a light into the fog...
You’re welcome
@@biolayne1 Is TEF calculated on nutritional facts on food packaging?
before the video starts I am enjoying a "bathroom habit" ad that makes you lean and happy. This alone already made my day.
Isn't it true that if you are having 3-6 meals a day then your insulin is constantly high throughout the day and if you spend less then you are bound to put on weight as insulin is storage hormone.
I believe the best approach is to combine IF and counting calories. I've been on/off the fasting train for years and have seen little success. I've come around to calorie counting. Some people say it's "soul sucking" and obsessive. Well, I find going hard at something for so long and seeing no results is soul sucking. Losing weight is a science and therefore you need to measure and be precise, as with any scientific. 😊 So glad I found this video.
20:52 Most people using CICO as a model do in fact assume that metabolic rate remain stable. No ordinary person uses 60 differential equations in their mental model of CICO. That's one of the many reasons CICO is not a good model to steer after for weight loss in particular.
Great video and explanation of a complicated subject , thank you for posting and going through the evidence,
Look I respect you both a ton. And have taken advice from you both. No doubt I'm so much healthier from it. Anyone can mispeak so what to do? I'll continue to listen to you both and believe I'll be better from it. Don't know which I'd choose if I could have only one. Don't think I'd be any graver danger from either of you. So both of you, keep doing what you think it best and I'll pick and choose without worry. By thes way the most important thing to my health is a low carb diet, exercise and IF.
I would be likely to agree with you if it weren't for a repetitive history of him saying completely erroneous claims and then refusing to admit it while also avoiding debate & attempting to get people fired from their jobs who disagree with him
Oh that part about trying to get people fired is terrible. Never a good sign. You will always be high on my trust list I think@@biolayne1
@@biolayne1None of that has any bearing on the scientific debate. There are a significant number of people with metabolic disease (80+% of the US pop) and CICO cannot treat it. That's a fact. The recidivism rate for CICO is nuts (90+%). Why even bother shopping that to people when it *maybe* helps 10% of them long term? Waste of time. You're only talking to the chicken and broccoli bodybuilding bro science crowd and you know it. This is one of those annoying flexes about being more disciplined than everyone else (eye roll) disguised as health advice.
Do calories matter? To some extent, of course. Does your metabolism strongly determine how those calories are utilized/stored? Yes. Did humans for most of history have access to food three times a day? Of course not. Was our body designed to flexibly deal with this? Yes. Is it a fundamental part of our metabolism? Absolutely.
It's not the "calorie deficit" that does it- it's the ketones. I know plenty of women, in particular, who eat low calorie and are still full of visceral fat, dumpy, and metabolically ill. CICO isn't going to save them, even with a ton of exercise. Only an IF meat-based diet with low/flexible/seasonal carbohydrate intake helped my metabolic health. I've never been fat in my life, but the diet most of you advocate for made me sick as fuck. Fasting and high fat, low carb for the win.
Everything else is a SAD diet.
I've done omad for over a year straight.
I've done the typical bb diet 6 meals a day.
Conclusion: calories in calories out is all it comes down to for weight gain and loss. If I ever sell a book I'll be sure to pick a side 🙃
I've done low carb for over a year, and I had better blood sugar levels, but not enough until I've lower calories. Then I've lost weight and brought mu blood sugar to normal level.
Mick dungeon It depends on the source of calories. Not all calories are equal.
You've explained this very well, thanks.
This was outstanding! Thank you. I’ll have to look at your site more - but have you covered Gin Stephen’s recommendation for “clean fasting.”
Do you see differences in body composition in terms of adipose placement?
I've been waiting for more people to talk about Dr. Jason Fung. Why can't more people do that
Yes, try to find anything on an internet search to back up your claims that Fung's a charlatan. All you get are people -- including RDs -- singing his praises. It's sick.
@@michelesatanove5781 Yeah, and there's hardly any info. Which makes it even more shady that he's supposedly really informative, yet isn't really known or critiqued. Hopefully that changes now lolol
@@michelesatanove5781 “I don’t understand” = must be fake.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you were also anti-vax
@@Seysande Your comment makes no sense at all, especially in light of my having given a 1-1/2-hour presentation yesterday on Covid and vaccines and why vaccines are so important. Fung's a scammer -- like so many of the self-proclaimed "expert" anti-vaxxers.
This is because he actively attacks the careers of people that speak out against him. He’s a sociopath.
Thanks again Layne
Very solid video all-around!🙌
For some people, like with PCOS, insulin goes up higher and faster than others and that just changes the game. And this is one example of what Fung is talking about, and why he has had so much success.
I have pcos or had and I lost 15 kilos in 6 months eating rice and rice based three times a day . Fung is bluffing .
@@libsonteresa5695 That is splendid. What was your strategy regarding meal timing and calorie count?
@@libsonteresa5695Do you still have PCOS? And have you managed to maintain your weight loss off of a very low calorie diet?
I think we've given the low fat, high carb, calorie counting diet a fair shot over the last 50 years, haven't we?
There are other factors that you're not considering. What has changed in the last fifty years? The ease of access of junk food, portion sizes, increase of desk jobs, more reliability on cars rather than walking; there are so many different factors that all lower a person's tdee. There's a reason that carbs are the preferred source of energy for the human body, which is evident by the body's ability to store carbs in the form of glycogen. Even though all carbs are converted into blood glucose, the importance lies within the rate at which that absorption and conversion occurs. If people want to do keto, I'm all for it because it is their choice. The simple truth is that all diets work as long as you are in a caloric deficit, and all diets will fail if you are not in a caloric deficit, the common denominator is a caloric deficit.
@@limitless484 I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, it would be a poor accountant who sat behind his desk and told his client that if he is broke, try getting more money. Boom, simple. I have a hard time believing that concurrently with the governments decision to demonize dietary fat and promote breads, pasta, and grains, people self control bombed and they became lazy pigs. After all, generations before them were not obese.
Btw I don't know if it matters but I calorie counted and loss 110lbs over the course of a few years. But I gained half of it back over the next few. In my opinion, you can't accurately gauge your own calories in, calories out with any precision. And thin people don't do it. They eat until their body says "enough." Yet the modern processed carb has all the satiety mechanisms bred out of it and processed it to the point where you might as well eat pure sugar.
@@philipekema4315 Overweight and obesity rates have been rising over the years, and the last time I checked, the obesity rate was like 33% and the percentage of overweight people in the US was 66%. I really think there are many factors that have caused this trend and not one single factor.
I totally get what you're saying about fats, but can you argue that if someone were to over consume on a keto diet or a protein diet, that they wouldn't gain fat? If that is true, then it is about calories and not just a particular macronutrient or insulin as all macronutrients induce insulin and can potentially increase the risk of insulin resistance. And I totally agree that it is impossible to get a very accurate number in terms of caloric TDEE, but I think it is a very useful tool that gives a good estimate that everyone can use if they are trying to lose fat, like a starting point.
I'm with you on the weight loss and regain. I've lost 125 pounds in 2008, gained it back, and lost 125 pounds in 2015, gained it back, I lost 75 pounds twice and 50 pounds probably 5 or more times in between that. I'm down 125 pounds again for the third time, and I can tell you with 100% confidence that taking a calculated approach to fat loss (calculating my TDEE and counting calories) has worked for me. My diet is about 50% carbs, 40% protein, and 10% fat (I don't handle fats well due to having gallbladder removed). But what I've learned (and always really knew) from past weight loss journeys is that I need to do what is sustainable for me. and everyone should do the same, whether that be Keto, carnivore, or a modified balanced diet.
It is all about sustainability in the long term and keeping it off, doing what you can sustain. I can't give up iced coffee, so I drink it everyday, but I found a way to make it lower in calories compared to starbucks. Appreciate the conversation and great job on the weight loss, hope you can lose that other half you regained! Losing it and maintaining it is a different ball game, but For myself it is all about sustainability and trigger foods and avoiding those foods at all costs and making physical activity a part of my life.
@@limitless484 Seems we are both part of the 100+ lbs club and the yoyo club! :) Congrats on the weight loss! We both know how much work and dedication it takes and I am really proud of you!
@@limitless484 And there are factors you're not considering.
* Calorie restriction diets are temporary
* Most thin people in the world are not doing keto
* Dr. Atkins is dead.
Yeah yeah, it was an accident, but he was found to be fat (which it seems he was hiding).
"What has changed in the last fifty years?"
What hasn't changed in 36 years is my weight. I'm 53, male, and weigh 135. I've always eaten a high carb AND usually a high-calorie diet
"all diets will fail if you are not in a caloric deficit"
Nope. Here's some terms I invented and teach on my channel and ebooks:
"Redundant Insulin" - the cause of diabetes.
"Fat-storage thermostat" - The body stores fat depending on how much the body thinks it may need that emergency storage.(lack of vitamins; lack of calories; general unhealthy lifestyle.
If those things are not present, the body will shed the fat. It will burn excess calories thru thermogenisis.
Question, if I eat maintenance calories for 3 months consisting only of ice cream and cookies vs meat and vegetables is there a difference in body fat percentage and or health markers at the end?
Yes, you would get less of the amino acids from protein you may need, on paper you could fiddle the numbers and buy high protein cookies, but the ratio of the amino acids would not be ideal (also vitamins/minerals), you could also have much less satiety.
Significantly less protein = significantly worse body composition. You will also probably get a lot of brain freeze. However, while that may have been a genuine question (in which case, fair play), if it was instead an attempt at presenting a simplified argument against what people think is meant by the CICO model, what you have done in that case is present a "straw man" argument - an over-the-top, extreme, exaggerated misrepresentation of an argument which is therefore easy to dismiss and shoot down. I don't think you will find a single health and nutrition expert that recommends for you to eat nothing but cookies and ice cream, so it's not really proving anything to say that you probably shouldn't. No proponents of the CICO model that i've ever seen say that micronutrients, macronutrients and fibre aren't important for HEALTH, only that calorie balance is what drives weight loss and weight gain. That's not the same thing as health markers, levels of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, essential fatty acids, levels of hunger, satiety, perceived energy levels throughout the day, etc.
God bless you Layne!
I don’t see how people don’t comprehend that the hormones determine if you take in more calories or less and burn more or less (if you don’t control for calories and just eat to hunger)
@@RaveyDavey people think somehow that that’s different from calories in calories out. If you don’t keep track of how much you are eating then you will gain or lose weight depending on those other factors that control hunger... but that doesn’t change if you’re in a caloric surplus you gain weight and if you’re in a caloric deficit you lose weight. They just determine if you naturally eat in a surplus or deficit. That and metabolically how much you burn. I mean maintenance calories aren’t a specific number, they’re a range really. So if you cut 100 calories out of your diet and don’t lose weight it isn’t because calories in calories out is incorrect, it just means it isn’t really a deficit and if it is it’s so small that it will become maintenance calories before you even notice a difference in weight.
If these “hormones alone control gaining or losing fat.” Zealots could comprehend counting calories and the law of thermodynamics/calories in calories out aren’t the same thing they would understand that it still is the number of calories you burn or store that matters, and the hormonal stuff is what determines the caloric needs of your body. It’s like they are incapable of 3D thinking or understanding multifactoral problems.
I've lost 102 lbs since I started listening to Fung.
Fasting and calorie restriction are both valid strategies for losing fat. Just because you found success with 1 method, doesn't mean the other way doesn't work.
That's amazing. You achieved a consistent calorie deficit for a sustained period.
@Ozzy1984_ I don't fast anymore but still maintain 150+ lb weight loss. Weight loss is easy, keeping off is the hard part.
@truth3404 I agree it's rough. I'm taking running pretty seriously, and I burn a Ron of calories, but still struggle to stay at a consistent race weight.
@@gerardt3284not really because your body starts to adjust to the deficit and becomes more efficient.
Cant remember the entire study, been a while since I read it, and the biochemistry adds up (insulin inhibits Neuropeptide Y release) but that study you showed on insulin demonstrating reductions in hunger was on Semaglutide. Which is a GLP-1-RA.
simple question if i eat 3000 calories and lifted weights, and then my twin brother eat 3000 calories lifted weights but took testosterone growth hormone, I'm sure it be safe to say my brother would gain more muscle lose more fat? so if that's the case is it the calories or is it the hormones? bodybuilders are a good example of the power of hormones as they take them to lose fat eg t3 they take them to gain muscle eg steroids, calories seem to be fuel and the hormones tell the body what to do? if not why not just increase calories to gain muscle and lose calories to lose fat for a bodybuilding show if hormones don't matter?
This is true. But do we really want to be taking drugs to stay lean and healthy? Fun fact- I was hyper thyroid in my twenties (the version that makes your metabolism go wild) my resting heart rate went up 20 points, I burned so hot I would steam up the car windows on my side, I barely slept. Yet I actually put on weight because I was so hungry I ate like a horse.
no matter what you say, what I heard from people on high carb restricted calorie diet, is it's hard, they feel low energy, they are hungry and the yo-yo effect
while Keto/faster say they LOVE it and can go on forever they are full of energy and less foggy mind..
After following my lifestyle journey over the last 6 years and following many styles of eating and many doctors' advice about food. My conclusion is that nobody really knows 100% the right way of eating because everyone counters information of the other and have valid arguments. So 6 years after my studies I'm more confused about my diet than I have ever been. :(
There are principles that's true for all diets, though. Like eating high protein
@@GoalOrientedLifting
Protein and fiber.
Carnivore diets are not the most healthy ones, exactly same as veganism.
Cutting out major food groups will only lead to micronutrients deficiency.
Some things all diets value (besides carnivore) is the important of fiber because of how it affects blood sugar+pressure and insulin.
Protein because it affects your recovery and muscle growth.
Your choice of energy source for carbs or fats is up to you.
Neither is inherently “better” given that the amount of protein and fiber is met every day.
For men the recommendation is 38g/day and for women 28g/day.
This leads to healthy blood levels and insulin.
Make animal based food your first choice then pick a leafy green and a few other above ground vegetables don't eat starches all the time but and don't eat processed crap. If you bloat, have gas or stomach issues cut back on the veggies a bit and or dairy. Raw dairy is best but hard cheese and yogurt may be ok from regular. Try to eat whole and clean.
This is the best video I’ve seen you do. Good stuff! 👌
Good points. Thank you. When every fat loss tips these days is about keto and IF , its brave to put the counter argument out there. Keto or IF are not miracles - your body also adapts to the IF schedules after a while and you’d have to increase and increase the fasting window until it gets unsustainable.
I guess that going from 215lbs to 150lbs and staying there for 8 years without IF was my imagination
Not imagination, just a calorie deficit 😁
It's called you created a calorie deficit. Good stuff on the weightloss tho.
Yeah people be crazy, thinking IF or anything like that matters
@@jonathanblacksmith I think that's what he's saying
Holy cow some people really don't understand sarcasm
How much experience have you had regarding type 2 diabetes?
Y’all are both correct!
Does protein powder also have a thermic effect of 20-30% or does this just apply to natural sources of protein?
yes
I think it's important to understand the lens people look through. Of course Jason Fung teaches this, it's how he LIVES, and it's the paradigm he sees the world through.
He worked with people with diabetes. he challenging the 100 year old medical system and the way they have taught calories incorrectly over time. He deals with fatally ill patients and people with multiple chronic diseases. He deals with poor uneducated people on disability and food stamps. He also greatly simplifies things for the benefit of people out there who find people like you insanely overwhelming and unrelatable. Context matters.
Layne doesn't care about this. He only cares about trying to seem "smarter" than an actual MD. Everyone who criticizes Dr. Fung takes everything he says out of context in order to make themselves look better. You really think someone who specializes in obese, diabetic, ERD patients doesn't know the simple TDEE? Of course he does.
What people CANT do. They CANT disprove he has helped thousands of diabetics lose weight and keep it off permanently. They CANT disprove that what he does actually works. They CANT disprove that insulin is a storage hormone and that too much of it inevitably leads to weight gain.
Lame norton just wants more views. He is really meh tbh trying to sound so woke haha
Couldn’t agree with you more. Fung is the man, and his method is saving lives, and reversing diabetes! Which the medical establishment is claiming to be a progressive chronic disease, for which there is no cure!
@@FastingFTW beautifully and eloquently stated. You’ve spoken the truth. Strawman arguments can’t stand to reality!
Lame Norton always puts Fung's work out of context. Of course you can always find something wrong when you create a situation for it to go wrong. Overall effects to health vs a microscopic view for weight loss arguements? Really? How low can you get? Mr Lame "Strawman" Norton should really go see a shrink.
Nobody can beat Thermodynamics!!! No amount of philosophizing will change this!
Oh really? So 2000 calories a day of broccoli and chicken are THE SAME as 2000 calories of donuts and cupcakes??? It doesn't take "philosophizing" to see what nonsense that is.
@@Jason_P agreed they’re different types of fat and those added sugars cause increase risk of many diseases I feel like this video is just nit picking what Jason says tbh
@@Jason_P if 2000 calories was a deficit, you’d lose weight no matter if it was all broccoli or donuts. Nobody is suggesting one isn’t better than the other, but as far as WEIGHT loss goes, it’s all the same
Until last year I was obese for 25 years. Understanding the very simple concept of calories in vs calories out is how I lost weight and maintain healthy bodyweight. I'm astonished I wasn't able to grasp the concept for so long. I would try dieting and eating "healthy" foods but wasn't able to lose and keep off weight. Now I eat foods I like, I just eat less and keep loose track of how many calories I'm eating vs how active I am each day. I've never been happier and I feel grateful to understand the concept of calories in vs calories out.
On a cut now. I am also using cico. Can you tell me how you got out of the diet? Did you regain weight?
@@gustavofring366 I'm still doing the same thing, but since I'm no longer trying to lose weight I just eat a little bit more each day. I've maintained the same weight for about a year now.
@@jacobthomas327 to maintain weight, do you still track calories?
@@gustavofring366 I still keep a general tab of how many calories I am consuming vs how active I am in a day. I've noticed once I got to my ideal body weight if I pay attention to what I am consuming and how active I am it's been pretty easy to maintain. I did slowly start adding back in some calories that I was avoiding when I was losing weight, like milk in my coffee, the occasional glass of orange juice etc.
@@jacobthomas327 great
And yet IF still helps me lose weight.
Studies equalising calories are great, but in the real world portion control when overweight is incredibly difficult
I've never failed to lose weight while tracking calories.
That's NEAT
@@SuperOCHomes *rimshot*
me too. I've lost 100 lbs counting calories, gained weight counting calories (intentionally and not regrettably). Everything worked exactly... as... fucking... predicted.
@@SuperOCHomes 🤣
Depends on the type of calories
Man.... I used to listen to Dr. Fung a lot. I knew he wasn't necessarily popular but somehow nobody really took the time to explain why his hypotheses weren't correct.
I wish there were actual debates between people like him and scientists who had a more conventional view... Both sides always seem to be preaching to the choir, and Fung has a god-like status in the IF and low carb realm.
This is probably the most clear headed comment in this section. Possibly including both Laynes and Fungs videos haha
You said that eating one meal instead of multiple throughout the day would increase your insulin significantly which is not completely true. I watch my blood glucose levels and if I eat protein and fat it barely moves the needle versus eating higher carbohydrates which will Skyrocket my blood sugar
I would love for you to actually make a video where you actually had an in person conversation with him. I feel like so many fitness gurus are so adamant that fasting only works because it lowers calories. I have Hashimoto’s and am severely hypothyroid, and I could not lose weight regardless of my diet. Once I tried fasting and low carb (while still considering that calorie do matter), I saw the changes I had been looking for. I was able to lose 70 pounds and now I have built muscle and actually have a physique I could have only dreamed of. I’m 45 years old and fasting actually worked for me. I believe I had to fix insulin resistance and get my body used to actually using my fat stores. Just like some of the long distance runners who actually train period of time while using the keto diet so they can more easily tap into their fat stores. I truly believe it is way more complicated than CICO!
I have invited Jason to debate me at least a dozen times, he has never responded. I’m glad you found something that works for you, but it likely worked because of improved adherence. In tightly controlled studies, type two diabetic’s actually lose the same amount of weight under the same caloric restriction as non-type two diabetics. Type two diabetes does not appear to inhibit weight loss.
@@biolayne1 well hopefully he responds to you eventually. I believe my Hashimoto’s is what’s really at play with my situation. My hormones were all messed up between the thyroid and super low testosterone as well as non existent estradiol. I don’t know, but it’s definitely more than just CICO in my situation because it wasn’t for lack of trying these past two decades.
@@heathmahaffey2342 as I said in the video, hormones can effect CICO. But NOTHING happens outside of CICO. You are confusing CICO (a physical law) with tracking calories (a tool to control intake)
@@biolayne1 I totally respect you and I think you have a lot of great points, that’s why I follow you. Maybe there is a lot of truth to what you’re saying, I definitely don’t have all the answers. All I know is that until I started following some of his advice I never saw results like this. Maybe he is wrong on some things, maybe science still hasn’t completely caught up yet. I think you can find a study to fit any narrative. I guess I just don’t understand all the hate for this guy if he is actually helping some people, and he clearly is.
@@heathmahaffey2342 that is not true, that's what people like Jason would have you believe. You can twist any study to fit your narrative which is why it's important to READ THE ACTUAL STUDY RESULTS. That is why if you go to my article EVERY SINGLE CITATION IS CLICKABLE so you can see for yourself
Just have to remember that Dr Jason Fung’s background is a nephrologist. These people tend to see patients with fairly far gone diabetes. Of course the most damage done to the body is that of excess insulin when you are a diabetic so naturally, that’s is Jason’s focus.
The truth is: everything works.
If you stick to something for a long enough time, you will get results.
“Don’t eat” is pretty boring and doesn’t sell a lot of supplements or products, but if you ask any 5 year old how to lose weight, they’d tell ya to stop eating so much. :)
I still like the video and it has some great points. I think high protein makes way more sense and even caloric restriction is a great idea.
It all works! :) we just have to stop looking for magic “perfect way” and just start today.
Am I not mistaken, or does your BMR just relate to the amount of calories burned at rest? Of course we are not at rest constantly… so he’s not technically wrong. Or am i missing something here?
One thing I want to point out: you agree insulin reduces fat loss and promotes fat storage. Now with the study you mentioned about the woman… if they’re raising their insulin by eating more then they’re clearly going to store that fat because of the raised insulin. Carbs don’t become a problem until you’re insulin resistant… which many Americans are because of all the processed sugars and carbs… once you become insulin resistant you’re body isn’t able to store that glucose and so it stores it as fat. Fructose, I’m sure you know this, is metabolized by the liver. If the liver can’t store it, it gets converted to fat and you end up with fatty liver desease. Human physiology is complicated and we are not just bound to the law of thermodynamics. Our ancestors survived and evolved from hunting and gathering and our physiology hasn’t strayed from it. Just skip the fast food and processed carbs, eat Whole Foods and be active and you’ll be just fine 😊
They get insulin resistant through being over fat. Weight loss reverses insulin resistance.
CICO is absolutely true but only determines the net lose or gain of tissues in the body. Macros, training, hormones, timing, sleep etc the composition of that weight
No shit. Never claimed otherwise
@@biolayne1 Ahahahahahah it wasn't clear but it was a comment in your favour. Because they strawman that for us cico is the only thing that matter
From my experience with diets, undiagnosed mental issues probably play a very significant role in diet adherence and probably even effect.
Do you know of any studies on that, specifically reviews and meta-analyses, Layne ?
look up andrew huberman. He talks about dopamine for example is what people want from food, not necesarily extra calories and such..I can +1 to your comment, I have the same experience :)
@@serban2139 Huberman fan right here, but I was thinking more along the lines of psychological research in my OC, rather than biomechanical
As a layman im trying to learn all I can about low carb / keto and Dr Chris Palmer MD (psychiatry) has credentials from Harvard and McLean hospital has been doing a ketogenic diet for treatment resistant mental disorders and has noted a patient of Dr Eric Westman who had chronic schizophrenia and started a ketogenic diet at age 70 after 53 yrs of having schizophrenia and being treatment resistant. They have long term data on this one patient after 13 years and she has been in full remission off all psychiatric meds and a ton of other positive things.
I don’t know if this helps with you OC and I understand it’s just one patient documented in literature. Chris Palmer I think is trying this with multiple patients and has a book coming out in November
Lots of great nuggets here sir. My n=1 test was going from 18 months on strict keto to high carb/low fat pescatarian. Reason = super high LDL & high AST liver enzyme on keto.
I was at an ideal weight on keto midway but did gain a few lbs towards the end when I had the poor blood work, but lean. When I switched to low fat to reduce LDL the fat loss was so evident. When your LDL goes from 175 to 60 in two months, your burning all excess fat fast. What I could notice was a leaning out of muscle or reduction in intramuscular fat. Striations in muscle and veins just started showing. I can quickly gain a few lbs with a week of extra calories and less surfing. But just as quickly loose it again if I purposely lower diet fat and increase activity. It's the best for my body from my keto experience. Funny about insulin. After the lower fat, high carb diet for a few months, my 12 hr fasting insulin was 2 and glucose 90. Think that rates as stellar insulin sensitivity when I had insulin resistance 4 years ago.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Dr Fung's work is aimed at people with severe health problems.
I have been a type 2 diabetic for over 20 years.
I've done all the eating fresh fruit and vegetables etc l used to be a greengrocer!
I have gone from eating the standard western diet to virtually a Carnivore diet.
Plants just don't agree with me.
You look to be a very fit and healthy man. You have probably exercised and kept your body within its normal peeamiters.
Doctor Fung is dealing with people who have abused their bodies for years.
Who's BMI is two or more times what it should be.
My fasting insulin level used to be in the teens (UK) on a regular basis, it's been as high as 30 (UK). I was doing hard physical work with it at that measurement.
As I said correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to be taking Dr Fung's comments out of context.
Doctor Fung has written some books.
May I suggest that before you make a video based on a couple of segments of another short video you read his books and then make a video based on that.
Perhaps looking at it from the view of a morbidity obese person with type two diabetes and or various other health problems.
I don't believe anywhere doctor Fung produces any fitness programs for people wanting to become athletes or Wight lifers etc.
His main concern is just to get people to be able to live a fairly normal life reduce their body fat to within normal parameters.
Ultimately to get healthy enough to live a fairly normal life
Exactly!! 💯
I would be interested to know what kind of fats were given to the high fat category. Makes a difference what type of fats they were given. Canola oil or grass fed steak could definitely make a different outcomes.
What else can you feed cattle apart from grass or dried grass products
@@rayparnell7432 Corn and soy, primarily grass is rarely given.
@@mynock250
I've been around cattle sheep and horses all my life all I've seen them fed on is grass hay. They might be given cereals Barley corn oats etc. All my sheep and horses eat are grass and hay. If the weather is really bad then I might give them some mixed feed.
Cattle horses etc need a large volume of food the eat almost continuously.
Carbohydrates trigger some people to eat a lot🤷♂️. Charles Poliquin was a huge believer in low carb eating, especially for 75% of all caucasians. He had to know something. He was a ripped beast year round.
A bit of an "argument from authority": "he had to know something, he was ripped year-round". What about someone like Joe Delaney who is also ripped year round and eats a high-carb diet and doesn't fast? It's like when people say you need to do heavy low-volume training because "that's what Dorian Yates did, and he was Mr Olympia", ignoring the fact that that's the exact opposite way Jay Cutler, Phil Heath and Big Ramy train, and they're also all Mr Olympia winners. You need to look at what all these people have in common, rather than just picking one example of one person who gets results doing something in a certain way. In the case of diet, it's not overeating calories and eating a healthy nutritious diet.
@@seanissomething That isn't a carbohydrate problem it's just a lack of discipline if someone overeats.
And he died at 56 from a heart attack.
Started IF 8 months ago. Lost 40lbs in 6 months. Didn't watch what I ate or count any calories. Began eating keto while IF 2 months ago and counting calories. Haven't lost a lb. Workout very hard daily during the keto diet phase. Didn't workout for the first 6 months. What's going on?
Wickid!! Good talk!
Question! I've lost just over 100 pounds from 2021-2022, what should my expected rate of fat loss be from here on out? I was calorie restricting by about 1000 calories a day 6 days a week and 500 calories 1 day a week for 8 months. I plan on restricting 500 a day and of course keep up my exercise of 10,000 steps a day plus 2 cardio sessions a week on top of that couple weight strength training exercises. I went from 5'4 285 pounds to 183 pounds.
No one could tell you the answer expect your online body bud. It really depends on your metabolic attenuation to your caloric deficit as well as any changes in macro composition , total activity, and NEAT. Just track your daily weight and calories as well as you can and see what your change in rate of weight loss might be. Also, remember the fact that weight-loss doesn’t always equate to fat loss.
Wow. This was brilliant. It articulates all the points I was thinking when listening to Dr. Fung, but nobody seemed to question. I thought I was the only one going “huh?”Thank you for highlighting the errors.
This doctor is actualy right. You have to look at the biochemestry of the food. And how the liver and other organ react to it. And what exact biochemestry action they do
The calories concept is just a very general not precise uncomplete concept you teach to high school students as an introduction to biology. But too much people assume this this stuff is the complete biology knowledge in science and people with arrogance like this youtuber talks 😂
Bread/potatoes/spaghetti/etc they have very long complex chain of sugar. Once brocken down it gives huge ammount of sugar
Since the body cannot consume that sugar right away. The liver store it in the body into fat. That can be brocken down later in case of hunger emergency or insane need of physical energy
The problem with calories is that the body will indeed with time adapt the metabolism to lower its calories burning. Cause the body is very stubborn into saving energy. It always have in mind you might go 3 weeks without eating or might have to do insane days long physical activity to survive about something.
Lower metabolism is very easy for the body to do
But something the body always does. Its burning fat reserve to convert it into glucose and energy when there is no food intake since a long time or that a very intensive physical acvitity consumed most of blood sugars. Why? Cause body dont have a choice! If you dont have sugar/glucose in the blood. Your body wont have energy to even move
The body does not work by calories. Its fuel is glucose/blood sugar. Fat is the storage version of sugar. The body isnt really using something called calorie. Its using glucose/blood sugar this is its fuel 😆
If you eat 500 calories less your body won't just go and say, "alright, I'm stopping everything, I got 500 less calories so I can't do anything whatsoever".
For rats in a lab that can’t physically access more food it’s completely different than getting humans to not WANT more calories. Hormones affect appetite
Another stupid strawman argument. But this is also not what fung is claiming