this was a cool and interesting video! i know these numbers don't usually mean what people think they mean, but i know they mean something, so it's great to hear from a professional. would love to hear your perspective again once the results for the month/s after zzz's honeymoon phase is over. (PS your solo Calcharo ToA run was sick as hell)
Hoyo relentless advertising campaign also contributes massively to their games' popularity and revenue. Since early 2023, I've seen more hoyo ads on youtube than raid, nordvpn, squarespace, WoT, hello fresh, gamersupps, etc... combined, not to mention all the content creators they sponsored.
It is an interesting take, thanks for sharing. The revenue charts only shows so much since it's for mobile only. It's really hard to comment unless we have more data, I wish there's a way to get their annual reports. I also kind of wonder if WuWa's sales are worst on mobile since they were having so much optimization issues. Also, more IPs = more cost. They transferred their audiences but it is now more expensive to maintain them. I'd wait for a few months before looking at those revenue charts again to analyze. But anyway, interesting video from you. It is nice to hear the business perspective side of things from an expert.
This might be far fetched but if Hoyo now divided their player base to play all 3 games, is it easier to keep up with them f2p and it could be bad business prospects? You have less time for each game so many probably just do their dailies and log off. They end up accumulating the pull currencies since they're not bored trying to figure out what to do ending up pulling trying to find entertainment and potentially use money. I think it's an interesting possibility
@@SignOne this is not far fetched! It is a good observation too. In fact, just take a look at the biggest ZZZ proponent amongst the CCs : Mr.Pokke I don’t think he’s gone 10 minutes without reminding everyone that he is f2p. He also is the one who played the game blindfolded, despite defending its combat system. Odd.
@@horg7203so what if it's combat easy to pick up people have lives and some want to relax after work. That would explain why WUWA dropped like a rock. Wuwu is a month and so days old we already know it made more on oc but not by much with it already having a low with the next few patches looking just a low. If hot fire booba mommy doesn't ride past that July number then there are problems. Wuwu cost massively more to make and run the PGR
You brought up something I have never thought about before outside of gaming, with a company having such a good product that although the individual thing is a success, it can lead to a loss of sales in the other things offered. It makes me wonder if that is used as a guiding principle when making products and if some companies purposefully make sure one product doesn't stand out too much so they don't deter from the others, but good enough to feel new and exciting. Or, it makes me think of a company like Apple that makes all of its products so integrated within itself that they create a necessity for all the other products. Just interesting to think about the "games" within sales itself, within the same company - you are not always in competition with others but the cost of creating competition in your own company and how to compensate for potential losses even with a better product. Also kudos to you for handling the stress of sales - you seem so chill but maybe that's the superpower you need in sales lol
@@trashbuilds8351 thank you so much! And yes, unnaturally high stress tolerance and relentless optimism (bordering on delusional confidence, but ending one moment earlier…) are necessary traits. Luckily, the world has moved on from the wolf of Wall Street days, and tech sales are a very good environment for technical introverts who are good articulate value propositions clearly and concisely. Aside from that, yes it is unfortunately sometimes a guiding principle. Just look at how Apple designs their products, not to mention the planned obsolescence in their product suite!
There is another CC Kazahana covered about the matter of wuwa's changli banner's first 2 most profitable days were not counted, so i'm wondering if other games that have big dip in revenue are also having this problem too or is it just wuwa.
@@DT-bo1zk honestly I’m really not concerned. Even the player count is rarely covered by CCs. I’d love to see the revenue per user for each game, that would be very telling. This is all data that would be nearly impossible to get without a leak in every company though lol
Omg face reveal! - me realizing at 0:06 what this was; from the thumbnail I thought the VP of Sales was you lmao Hey man, so good to see the face to go with the voice. Handsome devil. Didn't match what I thought you'd looked like though lol (hold up, I meant, "still handsome, but in that Sufjan Stevens/Tom Misch kind of way" ;) Sorry, that's just how my brain processes cool indie/jazz guitarists lol). Thanks for the upload; now, to watch the rest of it. 👊 Edit: You are the VP of Sales lol I don't know why I thought VP of Sales, Kuro Games.
I would've preferred to just hear your take on this tbh. Content creators like gacha smack, tectone etc. are not people I want to spend my time seeing / listening to. Even if they have occasionally decent opinions, thr majority of the time I've come across their work they're just rage baiting and drama farming. Rather not spend the already limited time in my day to filter out such nonsense. I have only a handful of content creators that I keep up with in this 'space' and I'd like this channel to be one of those. But don't think that will be the case if I come to associate it with this likes of him. And to anyone who feels the need to @ me to give them the benefit of the doubt or be a better person - No. I don't want to. Even if im in the minority here, my life is too short to warrant such time and effort on people like them.
@@Makri9 this is a very fair point ! I’m always hesitant to give my own, unfiltered and stand-alone opinion on these things because…well to be perfectly honest, in the grand scheme of things I am a total nobody in this space (for now at least) Of course, from a visibility standpoint, I am far more likely to get my voice heard and get to a position where I can express my stand-alone thoughts in a sustainable way if I first integrate well into this space and begin at least having some type of exchange with the other creators here. My intent is to be as peaceful as possible here. That being said, for this particular issue, Gachasmack’s take is the one that resonates most with me. For the future, I promise I will at least try to create a fully stand-alone version of this first. If it works, then you will get the credit from me, that’s for sure ! Thanks again for all of your support and I hope this hasn’t turned you away from my channel. Your feedback is loud and clear to me.
But he can use Gacha Smack, a much bigger CC, to potentially grow his channel. Nothing wrong with that. I honestly would have never clicked on this or even seen it in the algorithm if he wasn’t reacting to Smack.
and Next month is the Big patch for Genshin and Star Rail while ZZZ and Wuwa is more of a smaller patch, QIngyi and Jane Doe, Free Xiangli Yao + sub DPS ZhenZhi.
the most thing that Hoyo gains from releasing more IP probably are BP and Monthly pass but it ran into same issues is that even i have limited money to spend and i have to move my spend from other game to another game. i won't touch any subject about Whale because i'm not a BIg whale myself but more like DOlphin that bought Monthly and BP regularly . they might gains more cap from these Monthly or BP but idk how much they actually gains.
@@Mr.MoriartyXIII yeah for sure, all I have is a razer blackshark for now! Even us sales guy’s have to start somewhere hahaha! I have way too many other priorities at the moment but will continue tweaking EQ until I can get a proper XLR mic
Excellent video. I'd be interested in seeing your analysis of the active player numbers. The data for all of these metrics are always questionable but I've found a source that's the top result if you search the information that I've been monitoring for about 2 years. Unfortunately, it never comes up in the community surrounding the revenue discussions and I think it leaves the discussion without key context when trying to explain behavior like Hoyoverse treatment of the Genshin IP and community compared to HSR and how successful they actually see their games.
@@nottyseel949 this is exactly the type of data I want to look at! If you have this please feel free to join my discord and share there. My discord link can be found on my twitch page. twitch.tv/horghorg
This just my personal opinion, but as a working professional I quite enjoy playing ZZZ. Setting aside an hour or so per day just casually playing the game on my phone after work. I really like the overall nostalgic vibes and atmosphere the game portrays. Not to mention I also do not mind spending a bit of money pulling for characters like Ellen and Zhu Yuan. Looking forward to the 1.1 livestream later today.
One thing Hoyo defenders love to say is "Without ZZZ, HSR and Genshin wouldn't have even made 160m last month (July), because both HSR and Genshin were on a filler patch". Well, the thing is, they're both on a filler patch because Hoyo was clearing the ways for ZZZ to make big numbers. It was intentional. If ZZZ didn't exist, Hoyo wouldn't be having both of their games on a filler patch. We also had a Furina's rerun in Genshin last month, an Archon, which is one of their strongest characters, and to see the number dipped that low, ZZZ was definitely just taking money from what would have been for Genshin and HSR.
Yeah, HSR and Genshin were deliberately planned to be filler to make way for ZZZ, but they absolutely still would be having filler patches even without ZZZ. Tell me a single gacha that doesn't have a "filler patch" where there are less desired units. The end goal to maximize profits in gacha isn't to constantly pump out characters that drain peoples' wallets because that would burn out the player base and lead to people quitting (powercreep). You think Hoyo can just pump out an Arlecchino or Firefly each patch and players will spend the same every time? There market is limited by the number of players and how much time they have. They need to have down periods to keep people interested in continuing the game. What ZZZ accomplishes is to bump up Hoyo's bottom line while keeping players in their ecosystem. Which seems like it worked for the first month, let's see what will happen the following months. But I would trust that the multi billion dollar company knows what they're doing over any of us making speculations. Btw Furina rerun started in June - vast majority of that revenue wasn't included in July, which was really just Nilou and Navia rerun.
@@lopiont123 yes they can. Because they had been making good money for the previous 6 months (and maybe even more but sadly we lack data). Now what big hitters do we have this year? We have Acheron, Firefly, and Alercchino, so that's 3 characters, for 3 months. So obviously the other 3 months they were still making big money without any meta breaking characters.
People really keep getting this wrong. If you've not been paying attention to the release cycle of genshin for the past 4 years, let me help. It's extremely predictable. Hoyo is very consistent with their release schedule. Around this time, every year, there is a "filler" summer event. Last year, we didn't even get a new character for 3.8. So, no, they didn't intentionally release a filler patch for genshin so that ZZZ could make more money. It's more like ZZZ was intentionally launched during a time period where they KNEW their other games didn't have much going on. This distinction is important because it dispels this idea that hoyo will intentionally tank the success of their previous games to make new ones seem more successful.
@@marvellousbalogun3826 they did intentionally tank their revenue. Why else would they rerun 2 units at the start of the patch, and not releasing the new unit (Emilie) first?
@YumiSumire Did you not read my comment? Last year, there wasn't even a new character in 3.8. The year before that 2.8, we got a 4 star. Everyone who played for years knows that the ladder patches are always "filler" cuz they getting ready for the new region. They know people are saving, so they just do reruns, cuz they know people gonna spend on the new region characters.
That's interesting, I was wondering how the game exploded all of a sudden. Then I realised I'm fairly new to genshin (been playing since February) and to me, this content is new. Older players might have a different experience. It's still crazy how much their mobile customers paid for the game. As the answer to your question, is most probably no. Hoyo is not putting enough effort into building the combat mechanics in their game(s), what they like to do is exactly what the dude said, make their bosses more tanky or even immune to certain characters. If you look up Venti for example, they did everything in their power to screw up the character with their bosses since he really was so strong. It's, in a way, pretty sad, but it's definitely a tactic for people to buy new characters all the time. I definitely keep on playing the old ones, just because I like them a lot character wise. Otherwise, it just adds to a bit more challenge ^^
Most of the people that did a reaction vid to gacha smack's video said he was either hating or couldn't see the bigger picture nice to see something diffrent.
@@horg7203no he doesn't he cherry pick the fuck out of stuff in those charts I seen genshin make that same amount multiple times even before HSR came out most genshin low patches are around 30 to 40 million this is nothing new for genshin
Great to see a kindred spirit from the software sales world join in the discussion. I feel like lots of people have a take on these numbers, but don’t have the professional knowledge or experience to dissect them well. I’m mostly in agreement. I think having different games that folks can spend money on is great for hoyo - makes ‘em stickier and less likely to churn from one given game. Granted, I don’t think ZZZ will hit mainstream because mainly their art direction - most folk don’t like lolis and furries.
@@apilgrim6907 1000% stickiness is exactly the term we would use! Unfortunately I just don’t think they hit the nail on the head just yet with it. Maybe future updates will help it out
Great reaction. This is what my friend and I have been talking about, because the overall revenue of hoyoverse of the 3 games is quite stagnant for the past months, +/- 10M every month on average. Would ZZZ be able to sustain the income that they have or is the money lost from the other 2 just being transferred? This is really the heart if the discussion because this observation is often overlooked.
My personal take is, this is Zenless best month and I don't see the game eclipsing it. The game will continue to lose more players than actually attract more new players. I just don't think it's the best Hoyo's game and the best game out there. It is more inclined to attracting casuals which is a great strategy. However, there are more really good gacha choices out these year than in previous years. Unlike Genshin, it didn't really have a real competition when it came out. Zenless Zone Zero will have to compete with other gacha games including including their own games Genshin and HSR. I think the average gacha games hardcore players play is three. For casuals, it's one. Since most of the playerbase of Hoyo are casuals, they will most likely choose one of the three. That means abandoning one to play the other.
Kuro small game company who cruised by making 2mil per month. Mihoyo, not so small game company that make 150-300mil per month. Ah yes, gotta defend Goliath against David.
@@zealgaming8161 ? I did not defend hoyo at all! Quite the contrary. I agree with you. Kuro is doing a fantastic job of carving out a space for themselves in the market
@@horg7203 I was just being sarcastic to the clouds. I'm a Kuro glazer now after picking up PGR and WuWa at same time and while WuWa is a great game, it has a long way to go to be on par with how absurdly good PGR is.
@@horg7203no it just got old genshin players in fact the game is close close to genshin it's not even different. It's just genshin with more grind and not it's not close to a souls like game it piss ass easy
Dam gacha smack actually pointed out something important, the hoyoverse shills who make them money, didn't go up. Personally i would never put a dime into any hoyoverse game ever again. Wuthering waves and kuro won me over, they care about their players and have a good product and also allows the people who are not able to pay, they allow them to enjoy the game to.
I think mid term we are going to see watering down of all IP's. ppl may just get burned out of hoyo formula. we are also for a first time in a competition cos Wuwa eat Genshin and ZZZ playerbase and there will be more similiar games. I also predict that HSR is going to go down significantly on average as revenue. Yeah there will be occasional spikes but even FF/RM didnt break any records. The game starts to feel stale and Luofu is just boring. Genshin will have 3 spikes - start of NAtlan, Mavuika, Capitano. Regarding Wuwa I consider 2 major weakness - the game is not theorycrafter friendly i.e. you dont have complex iteraction between teammates, elements, echoes etc. Secondly, Wuwa needs imo a content that is streamfriendly. something that you can do with minimum rewards but takes a lot of time and repeatable. something to grind and stream.
In the end u cant say much cause its 1 month, ZzZ is in honeymoon phase and has top up bonuses and the other 2 hoyo games are kinda flat atm. It will be much more interesting when Natlan comes out, how much Genshin is still able to make now with ZzZ and Wuwa as competition and on the other side how much WuWa and ZzZ make then.
hoyoverse in this month made 10% more revenue so do they actually canalized themself I don't think so. All I see is they found a way to make money in dead patchs of their games by rotating it.
Why arent we considering the theory of Wuwa being part of the same audience? It did have the same exposure ZZZ had or at least 60% give or take. I dont think gacha players are just hoyoverse plays vs non hoyv players I think at a point we had people being exposed to gacha through genshin but we had already had existing gacha players before that. Overtime the new gacha players found other niches that they liked...or they didnt. But I do think Wuwa was that similar game to genshin that a good number of hoyoverse players know/play. but lets consider the "Silent majority", the players who "for the sake of understanding what Im saying" only recieve hyv marketing, this is where I see the hyv games just passing around their revenue accross the 3 games without overall raising the bar. Although notice how I said 3, hyv actually has 5 games. Hi3 and tears of themis should've seen a boom due to that genshin exposure but why didnt they? I can see an argument that hi3 is too far into its life cycle and would be hard to get into, but Tears of Themis is an otome game...just like love and deepspace so why did Tot heavily underperform compared to a direct competitor? thoughts?
The problem about the space is if you're an average wuwa player asking a sincere question that this revenue doesn't cover PC/PS5 they think you're coping. It's pretty obvious that these gacha games have revenue on all platforms available to their current version. And no even if the combined revenue of wuwa it will not be able to topple a game from Hoyoverse Big 3 that's just a fact and only time will tell if Wuwa will garner a much larger playerbase as time goes by.
@@HazardTone in the case of WuWa I don’t think we’re coping. I firmly believe a large portion of the player base play exclusively on PC. I’m willing to bet in fact that many people who played in mobile in month 1 actually moved over to PC too!
@@horg7203 true their first month revenue was over 100 Million and 30% of those are in mobile devices that just meant that Their PC revenue is higher. And I too, if I just have a PC I would be playing this on PC there's just so much button to press. It's even harder than playing CODM
I'm surprised you say you play gacha games but didn't even take to into count money is base on the character on the banner. Genshin is in a full rerun patch with characters who have had multiple reruns and it's next big 5.0 patch with every time before in the past when a new nation drops the revenue before it drops. We have already seen genshin make that amount in the past to finish it's a open world game the only one hoyo has. Hsr had jade a character not many people wanted on top the patch before hsr made was over 90 million to think a gacha game will make 90 million ever patch is insane with hsr being a turn base game Gacha games have low patches but i do find it funny you didn't talk about wuthering waves at all even though smack does in that video. I'll tell you what happened hsr and genshin had patches many didn't want to spend on so if not for ZZZ that 96 million would have been lost right away making you and smack look stupid. Your what if doesn't matter it's just poisoning the well you nor i know if ZZZ would have made the same amount, less or more we have zero info on how much genshin and hsr made on pc/console except that one time genshin made more then PlayStation as a whole. ZZZ, HSR, GENSHIN are very different games a ZZZ a urban hack in slash, HSR a space fantasy turn base, Genshin a open world classic fantasy they completely different game genres I question your job base off your very lacking though you put in you just agree without doing any research and base off want you said it sounds more like you didn't agree with the other takes. It's clear you have a bias in fact to prove you wrong hoyo has other games that aren't making a increase in the games revenue. Those being honkai impact 3 and tears of themsis they also have GGZ but i have no idea how much money it makes. Comparing one game revenue to hoyo highest amount earned is stupid it should have been by a average which smack said was a 10% increase. Infact this was even brought up when star rail came out a genshin revenue dropped hard so why now does it matter so much I'll tell you because of wuthering waves. Smack went out of his way to discredit ZZZ revenue while at the same time justifying wuwa losing 20 million. This isn't hard to under and not that deep to figure out ZZZ made big because it caught some of the people were not going to spend in genshin or hsr in July.
@@eddieboston6540 I have clarified multiple times now in the comment section, the same one where you’ve left multiple comments now, that this is in fact my first ever gacha game. I come from shooters and sekiro and bloodborne. There is a lot I do not know, so I welcome all comments like this as long as they’re constructive!
What is the point tho? Do games have to bring more revenue when it's already making a sh*t ton other devs can onyl dream of, Hoyo then pours a majority of their prpfit into music, cultural programs, top of thr line music development. My real question is how a character thats so sexy thay it makes every young man sweat and wet couldnt do better when in reality that the gacha spending crowd is THAT big. That begs more of an observation than trying to figure out if Hoyo made money or not XD. FYI, im in advertising and marketing as well.
@@BrianCarreraShaw I’ll summarize the points : 1. Hoyo has effectively added more overhead and hasn’t gained any market share 2. WuWa has taken significant market share in the space 3. Regardless of all of this, ZZZ has performed well individually 4. Since they did not capture a new market and essentially shifted their already captive audience over to their new IP, I am not confident that ZZZ will keep up their revenue. Why? The points above and all of the sponsorship campaigns are pretty much over with. This is what viral marketing, as I’m sure you know, is for. Create a big wave for initial release. I am confident Mtashed will not touch this game anymore. Tectone very rarely. Asmongold straight up just said he dislikes it and then proceeded to 100% Wuthering waves instead. Mr.Pokke is basically the only CC still defending the game at this stage. Which is smart. Nobody else plays it from “their crowd”, so he gets the pocket of that audience who still enjoys ZZZ. He gets 100% of that psychographic if all of the other CCs in “their group” stop playing ZZZ and the audience only has him to go to. Strategically, there is no use for him to compete with Mtashed, Tectone, Fob, Gacha, etc etc if he could instead go ahead and focus on the game that none of them like and gain 100% of the audience who agrees with him instead of having 20% of the audience who agrees that ZZZ is not particularly great at the moment. That’s it.
@@horg7203ok so everything you just said wasn't facts just your opinion on top the people you named are only important in en the CN player base doesn't even know who some are. Then you just outright lied it take one TH-cam search to see multiple CC defending ZZZ.
Jesus. When will people learn that Hoyo games are overcensored trash with childish writing? When will other, newer, better games release to take the cake away from hoyo? WuWa had a chance, but they kind screwed it up and they also didn't really go far from hoyo censorship-wise... Anyway, I wish all the bad to Hoyo and all the best to Shift UP (NIKKE), because this is the only truly good, fun, well-written, uncensored gacha out there.
I'm no business man but I'm using more of a common sense point of view. so feel free to correct me if I'm off. Wouldn't Hoyo making the same revenue with an additional product be a loss in net revenue? Every game requires money to keep up, as well as advertising which they are aggressively pushing. I get so many ZZZ ads it makes my head spin lol. In a vacuum it looks like ZZZ is doing great and it did do great, but overall I don't see that as a win. Especially when they were making more with less mouths to feed so to speak.
@@CamronSaltado 1000%. That’s why the churn discussion is an important one. A company doesn’t set out to deliberately lower their margins. They’d only make these types of “concessions” if they believe the alternative is worse… The alternative would be : change nothing and lose more players to the gacha newcomers like Wuthering Waves and any other upcoming ones that have made waves! In other words : 50% of something isn’t 100% of it , but it’s still better than nothing !
@eddieboston6540 We're aware, and no one is arguing otherwise. But it is strange that this year, genshin had multiple dead patches in a row and performed much better than this. It's also strange that coincidentally, both Honkai and Genshin have some of the lowest revenue I've seen coinciding with ZZZ's launch. That could have very well been intentional on Hoyo's part. We don't know. Since we don't have multiple months of data to look at, we can't come to a conclusion yet only speculate. We'll have to see what happens to ZZZ's revenue once genshin drops Natlan and Honkai have better characters available. After a couple of months of data, we can come to a full conclusion.
People forget to look at the ( big Pic) IT STILL OVER 100 million dollars per month that Hoyo is making... end of the day they winning no matter how we look at it. ( personally hate hoyo refuse to give them a single dillar )
@@dragonkus6934 in my opinion the big picture is in fact that hoyo had a bit of a monopoly and WuWa genuinely took some of their market share and brought new players into the space. They carved out a piece of the pie for themselves whereas hoyo’s piece of the pie either stayed the same or actually shrank. I myself for example have never played any gacha games before WuWa. Kuro won me over as a net new player in this space, I was not even here before ! That’s “capturing a new market” as gachasmack would say.
@@horg7203see your doing it again you don't even think that ZZZ pulled new players when it did and most of WUWA players are old genshin players they didn't get anything new just the people hoyoverse loss.
I missed the part where this is a company vs company ranking? This is a single game ranking. The entire premise is flawed based on this ranking. Explain why hi3 is consistently low if it's just using the same playerbase? Zzz wouldn't make that money if it wasn't a good game.
You don't get the point. Smack is talking about the Hoyoverse as a whole there is barely increase in revenue is what's he talking about. Of course you can't deny ZZZ major success but of you look at the charts given on "MOBILE" CN players dominated that woth a whooping 70% of their total revenue which is not really that shocking cuz Hoyoverse is a popular Gacha company in CN and they will always pay no matter what. He also mentioned that if he wanted to grasp the full picture of it being a failure/success he will wait for a few months to judge.
@@HazardTone I think you are missing the point. It's a single game ranking. It's not a company ranking. It's a fallacy in argumentation because the list isnt ranking companies. Secondly, a crappy game wouldn't sell just because of who produced it. Just look at their games like hi3 and tears, they don't ever reach these heights. So it's a fallacy in reasoning to claim it only did well cause it's a hoyo game. Lastly, it's a cop out to claim that the success or failure of zzz is contingent on then getting a new audience. Whether they do or not is irrelevant to the success of a game that has the ability to rake in 100 mil a month from mobile alone. The game was clearly a success, regardless of who decided to spend and play the game. Additionally, we do not know the short term or even long term goals of hoyoverse. They have analytics of the industry we simply don't have. If the audience in the gacha space is capped then you'd best believe they have that knowledge. Therefore their goal may be to monopolize the gacha space rather than appealing to a new audience. This is another reason why gacha smacks arguments are fallacies on reasoning. Conclusion: the only way to assess this list is based on the information it's providing. And that information is how much a single game made for the month. Each game has its own team, own goals, own features, own revenue and own overheads. Merging different games together because it's one company is not how the list is made. What about the gacha players that are playing 3+ games at one time on the same list, buying the BP/monthly for different companies? An example would be: genshin, wuwa, nikke, dbz, etc... they aren't from the same company but one player can be playing them all and spending in all of them. So it's just a ridiculous argument to make and it's sad to see a professional sales VP make a video on it like it's something profound. It seems along with maths and market knowledge, he didn't learn critical thinking 101 Games don't just pull 100 mil as average games.
@@saiwaqa2573 I know that it's a single ranking and he obviously knows that as well. And you should understand he is the one making that statement and he didn't present it as facts. He also mentioned that in order to get the bigger picture, is to give it a few months cuz for now you can't really decide that much cuz it's a newly released game. in my perspective Hoyo is not really looking for more audience they just wanted to make their players cycle their money to their games that's why they're making a different type of genre, it's to cycle their player through dead patches of every game.
@@HazardTone to make his argument he assumes too many things. It's clear to anyone who has knowledge of argumentation that he made that fallacious argument to support his claim that even tho wuwa has lost money this month, overall it's a success because of how poorly pgr does. It's such a bad argument and can be demolished instantly, just as easily with the points I've laid out. But I wouldn't expect a cc to have any ability to make proper arguments. That being said, pushing his reaction as a VP of sales is really embarrassing and if I were this cc, no way I'd attach that title to my video if I'm agreeing with gacha smacks fallacious reasoning.
@@saiwaqa2573 to add smack is not really talking about revenue he is just using revenue as a basis cuz his main point did zzz gain a new audience and in that regards I think his ppint is valid. But revenue wise zzz still a major success not just successful like HSR and GI on their launch though.
ZZZ is not cheap to make either. It's rumored that the total cost of that game is somewhere between $150-200 million dollars with marketing being the majority of the cost. They can definitely recoup that budget but the game has significantly lower earnings than either Genshin and HSR in its first month alone.
We have to admit though, they funded it really well and made the game look really good on paper. They made both Genshin and HSR take the fall in numbers so that Hoyo's cult followers of spend their money on ZZZ for now
@@TheFreakinTrees I did enjoy the game while I played it though to be fair, that being said…I did not find myself drawn back to it the next day. Instead, I launched Wuthering waves and had fun!
@@horg7203WUWA does nothing new hell if not for genshin it wouldn't even exist and before you say it BOTW was not the first open world game far from it. WUWA is what I call 90% genshin and 10% original
Calcharo god, VP of sales, and musician? You're officially the most interesting man in the gacha space
@@forgey1298 thank you sir!!
The names bond, James Bond
@@horg7203😂 fcking killed it
wait, he is a musician too????
@@Mportella7 yes you can hear/see at the end of this video!
I often play guitar on stream as well
@@horg7203 I posted the comment as I was watching the video, and then... BAM guitar solos LMAO
I love this!
Very informative!
This review and deep explanation actually helped a lot in understanding how these works
@@lekoknightgaming8071 glad you enjoyed this !
this was a cool and interesting video! i know these numbers don't usually mean what people think they mean, but i know they mean something, so it's great to hear from a professional. would love to hear your perspective again once the results for the month/s after zzz's honeymoon phase is over.
(PS your solo Calcharo ToA run was sick as hell)
@@RansaMPratyaya thank you! And yeah I can make more of these. I do want to find player count data as well
Yo, this was very refreshing perspective. Thanks for the video!
@@doedoel035 my pleasure ! Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching !
Hoyo relentless advertising campaign also contributes massively to their games' popularity and revenue. Since early 2023, I've seen more hoyo ads on youtube than raid, nordvpn, squarespace, WoT, hello fresh, gamersupps, etc... combined, not to mention all the content creators they sponsored.
That’s very true !! I get ZZZ ads to this day on YT. ON MY OWN VIDEOS NO LESS
THAT OUTRO!!!! the "woo" was so funny and also great to see how much you enjoy that insane talent of yours
Now this is the take I like, thank you for the video
@@Ezelrize thank you!!
I love this content too and that outro wtf 100% depin dmg to the next resonator xD
@@19Andre87 hahahahahaha best comment
a VP in sales, plays guitar, looks nothing like a gamer & among all of the games he plays wuwa? subbed!
@@Bitz0 hahahaha thank you sir !
Gamers come in all shapes, sizes and vocations!
It is an interesting take, thanks for sharing.
The revenue charts only shows so much since it's for mobile only. It's really hard to comment unless we have more data, I wish there's a way to get their annual reports. I also kind of wonder if WuWa's sales are worst on mobile since they were having so much optimization issues.
Also, more IPs = more cost. They transferred their audiences but it is now more expensive to maintain them. I'd wait for a few months before looking at those revenue charts again to analyze.
But anyway, interesting video from you. It is nice to hear the business perspective side of things from an expert.
This might be far fetched but if Hoyo now divided their player base to play all 3 games, is it easier to keep up with them f2p and it could be bad business prospects?
You have less time for each game so many probably just do their dailies and log off. They end up accumulating the pull currencies since they're not bored trying to figure out what to do ending up pulling trying to find entertainment and potentially use money. I think it's an interesting possibility
@@SignOne this is not far fetched! It is a good observation too.
In fact, just take a look at the biggest ZZZ proponent amongst the CCs : Mr.Pokke
I don’t think he’s gone 10 minutes without reminding everyone that he is f2p. He also is the one who played the game blindfolded, despite defending its combat system.
Odd.
@@horg7203so what if it's combat easy to pick up people have lives and some want to relax after work.
That would explain why WUWA dropped like a rock.
Wuwu is a month and so days old we already know it made more on oc but not by much with it already having a low with the next few patches looking just a low. If hot fire booba mommy doesn't ride past that July number then there are problems.
Wuwu cost massively more to make and run the PGR
You brought up something I have never thought about before outside of gaming, with a company having such a good product that although the individual thing is a success, it can lead to a loss of sales in the other things offered. It makes me wonder if that is used as a guiding principle when making products and if some companies purposefully make sure one product doesn't stand out too much so they don't deter from the others, but good enough to feel new and exciting. Or, it makes me think of a company like Apple that makes all of its products so integrated within itself that they create a necessity for all the other products.
Just interesting to think about the "games" within sales itself, within the same company - you are not always in competition with others but the cost of creating competition in your own company and how to compensate for potential losses even with a better product.
Also kudos to you for handling the stress of sales - you seem so chill but maybe that's the superpower you need in sales lol
@@trashbuilds8351 thank you so much! And yes, unnaturally high stress tolerance and relentless optimism (bordering on delusional confidence, but ending one moment earlier…) are necessary traits.
Luckily, the world has moved on from the wolf of Wall Street days, and tech sales are a very good environment for technical introverts who are good articulate value propositions clearly and concisely.
Aside from that, yes it is unfortunately sometimes a guiding principle. Just look at how Apple designs their products, not to mention the planned obsolescence in their product suite!
There is another CC Kazahana covered about the matter of wuwa's changli banner's first 2 most profitable days were not counted, so i'm wondering if other games that have big dip in revenue are also having this problem too or is it just wuwa.
@@DT-bo1zk honestly I’m really not concerned. Even the player count is rarely covered by CCs. I’d love to see the revenue per user for each game, that would be very telling.
This is all data that would be nearly impossible to get without a leak in every company though lol
As someone who has very minimal knowledge and experience for sales, I too found this an interesting observation. ☕
Omg face reveal! - me realizing at 0:06 what this was; from the thumbnail I thought the VP of Sales was you lmao Hey man, so good to see the face to go with the voice. Handsome devil. Didn't match what I thought you'd looked like though lol (hold up, I meant, "still handsome, but in that Sufjan Stevens/Tom Misch kind of way" ;) Sorry, that's just how my brain processes cool indie/jazz guitarists lol). Thanks for the upload; now, to watch the rest of it. 👊 Edit: You are the VP of Sales lol I don't know why I thought VP of Sales, Kuro Games.
I’m the VP of sales indeed!
I would've preferred to just hear your take on this tbh.
Content creators like gacha smack, tectone etc. are not people I want to spend my time seeing / listening to. Even if they have occasionally decent opinions, thr majority of the time I've come across their work they're just rage baiting and drama farming. Rather not spend the already limited time in my day to filter out such nonsense.
I have only a handful of content creators that I keep up with in this 'space' and I'd like this channel to be one of those. But don't think that will be the case if I come to associate it with this likes of him.
And to anyone who feels the need to @ me to give them the benefit of the doubt or be a better person - No. I don't want to. Even if im in the minority here, my life is too short to warrant such time and effort on people like them.
@@Makri9 this is a very fair point ! I’m always hesitant to give my own, unfiltered and stand-alone opinion on these things because…well to be perfectly honest, in the grand scheme of things I am a total nobody in this space (for now at least)
Of course, from a visibility standpoint, I am far more likely to get my voice heard and get to a position where I can express my stand-alone thoughts in a sustainable way if I first integrate well into this space and begin at least having some type of exchange with the other creators here.
My intent is to be as peaceful as possible here. That being said, for this particular issue, Gachasmack’s take is the one that resonates most with me.
For the future, I promise I will at least try to create a fully stand-alone version of this first. If it works, then you will get the credit from me, that’s for sure !
Thanks again for all of your support and I hope this hasn’t turned you away from my channel. Your feedback is loud and clear to me.
But he can use Gacha Smack, a much bigger CC, to potentially grow his channel. Nothing wrong with that. I honestly would have never clicked on this or even seen it in the algorithm if he wasn’t reacting to Smack.
I am in the same boat. I used to watch them but mannn it’s just constant ego and fighting. Like man it’s just a game its not that deep.
Smack became a Tectone lackey. Once he made contact with Tectone he stopped being entertaining and shared the same braincell with the baldman
@@ranjnijan3446Seeing his body language and tone used, need I say more about his ego? He has the same aura as teccy.
and Next month is the Big patch for Genshin and Star Rail while ZZZ and Wuwa is more of a smaller patch, QIngyi and Jane Doe, Free Xiangli Yao + sub DPS ZhenZhi.
the most thing that Hoyo gains from releasing more IP probably are BP and Monthly pass but it ran into same issues is that even i have limited money to spend and i have to move my spend from other game to another game. i won't touch any subject about Whale because i'm not a BIg whale myself but more like DOlphin that bought Monthly and BP regularly . they might gains more cap from these Monthly or BP but idk how much they actually gains.
Love the vibes the audio needs work though,waiting for more content good luck and keep it real
@@Mr.MoriartyXIII yeah for sure, all I have is a razer blackshark for now!
Even us sales guy’s have to start somewhere hahaha! I have way too many other priorities at the moment but will continue tweaking EQ until I can get a proper XLR mic
@@horg7203 I know it's not easy to keep with everything I wish you good luck 🙏
Excellent video. I'd be interested in seeing your analysis of the active player numbers. The data for all of these metrics are always questionable but I've found a source that's the top result if you search the information that I've been monitoring for about 2 years.
Unfortunately, it never comes up in the community surrounding the revenue discussions and I think it leaves the discussion without key context when trying to explain behavior like Hoyoverse treatment of the Genshin IP and community compared to HSR and how successful they actually see their games.
@@nottyseel949 this is exactly the type of data I want to look at! If you have this please feel free to join my discord and share there.
My discord link can be found on my twitch page.
twitch.tv/horghorg
@@horg7203 A little late, but I posted it in gen chat.
Imagine GI community shitting ZZZ then the money they put in GI get the half to ZZZ and HSR😅
15:02 Forget the revenue chart. This is why I'm here.
Also, nice to see the face behind the world's best calacharo. 😂
@@hijodelsoldeoriente hahaha thank you!!
That's beautiful and unique way to end your video.
@@TabijiNori thank you!
Ye I watched that vid was interesting
@@Synocra agreed, I think it was a good summary of the report
This just my personal opinion, but as a working professional I quite enjoy playing ZZZ. Setting aside an hour or so per day just casually playing the game on my phone after work. I really like the overall nostalgic vibes and atmosphere the game portrays. Not to mention I also do not mind spending a bit of money pulling for characters like Ellen and Zhu Yuan. Looking forward to the 1.1 livestream later today.
@@icendia01 W perspective here. When played that way, it makes sense for sure !
About ZZZ, got to play the game for 3 hours and gave up. It's just so easy and simple I got bored and just came back to Wuthering Waves.
One thing Hoyo defenders love to say is "Without ZZZ, HSR and Genshin wouldn't have even made 160m last month (July), because both HSR and Genshin were on a filler patch".
Well, the thing is, they're both on a filler patch because Hoyo was clearing the ways for ZZZ to make big numbers. It was intentional.
If ZZZ didn't exist, Hoyo wouldn't be having both of their games on a filler patch.
We also had a Furina's rerun in Genshin last month, an Archon, which is one of their strongest characters, and to see the number dipped that low, ZZZ was definitely just taking money from what would have been for Genshin and HSR.
Yeah, HSR and Genshin were deliberately planned to be filler to make way for ZZZ, but they absolutely still would be having filler patches even without ZZZ. Tell me a single gacha that doesn't have a "filler patch" where there are less desired units. The end goal to maximize profits in gacha isn't to constantly pump out characters that drain peoples' wallets because that would burn out the player base and lead to people quitting (powercreep). You think Hoyo can just pump out an Arlecchino or Firefly each patch and players will spend the same every time? There market is limited by the number of players and how much time they have. They need to have down periods to keep people interested in continuing the game.
What ZZZ accomplishes is to bump up Hoyo's bottom line while keeping players in their ecosystem. Which seems like it worked for the first month, let's see what will happen the following months. But I would trust that the multi billion dollar company knows what they're doing over any of us making speculations.
Btw Furina rerun started in June - vast majority of that revenue wasn't included in July, which was really just Nilou and Navia rerun.
@@lopiont123 yes they can. Because they had been making good money for the previous 6 months (and maybe even more but sadly we lack data). Now what big hitters do we have this year? We have Acheron, Firefly, and Alercchino, so that's 3 characters, for 3 months.
So obviously the other 3 months they were still making big money without any meta breaking characters.
People really keep getting this wrong. If you've not been paying attention to the release cycle of genshin for the past 4 years, let me help. It's extremely predictable. Hoyo is very consistent with their release schedule. Around this time, every year, there is a "filler" summer event. Last year, we didn't even get a new character for 3.8. So, no, they didn't intentionally release a filler patch for genshin so that ZZZ could make more money. It's more like ZZZ was intentionally launched during a time period where they KNEW their other games didn't have much going on. This distinction is important because it dispels this idea that hoyo will intentionally tank the success of their previous games to make new ones seem more successful.
@@marvellousbalogun3826 they did intentionally tank their revenue. Why else would they rerun 2 units at the start of the patch, and not releasing the new unit (Emilie) first?
@YumiSumire Did you not read my comment? Last year, there wasn't even a new character in 3.8. The year before that 2.8, we got a 4 star. Everyone who played for years knows that the ladder patches are always "filler" cuz they getting ready for the new region. They know people are saving, so they just do reruns, cuz they know people gonna spend on the new region characters.
That's interesting, I was wondering how the game exploded all of a sudden. Then I realised I'm fairly new to genshin (been playing since February) and to me, this content is new. Older players might have a different experience. It's still crazy how much their mobile customers paid for the game.
As the answer to your question, is most probably no. Hoyo is not putting enough effort into building the combat mechanics in their game(s), what they like to do is exactly what the dude said, make their bosses more tanky or even immune to certain characters. If you look up Venti for example, they did everything in their power to screw up the character with their bosses since he really was so strong. It's, in a way, pretty sad, but it's definitely a tactic for people to buy new characters all the time.
I definitely keep on playing the old ones, just because I like them a lot character wise. Otherwise, it just adds to a bit more challenge ^^
Most of the people that did a reaction vid to gacha smack's video said he was either hating or couldn't see the bigger picture nice to see something diffrent.
@@vontecontroll1556 he absolutely sees the bigger picture
@@horg7203no he doesn't he cherry pick the fuck out of stuff in those charts I seen genshin make that same amount multiple times even before HSR came out most genshin low patches are around 30 to 40 million this is nothing new for genshin
Great to see a kindred spirit from the software sales world join in the discussion. I feel like lots of people have a take on these numbers, but don’t have the professional knowledge or experience to dissect them well.
I’m mostly in agreement. I think having different games that folks can spend money on is great for hoyo - makes ‘em stickier and less likely to churn from one given game. Granted, I don’t think ZZZ will hit mainstream because mainly their art direction - most folk don’t like lolis and furries.
@@apilgrim6907 1000% stickiness is exactly the term we would use! Unfortunately I just don’t think they hit the nail on the head just yet with it. Maybe future updates will help it out
Great reaction. This is what my friend and I have been talking about, because the overall revenue of hoyoverse of the 3 games is quite stagnant for the past months, +/- 10M every month on average. Would ZZZ be able to sustain the income that they have or is the money lost from the other 2 just being transferred? This is really the heart if the discussion because this observation is often overlooked.
ZZZ is too close to one of their older game called HI3rd. It's just a bit more polished than HI3rd.
@@ParafrostV very interesting. I’m fairly new to the space so I’m not familiar with it, but that’s very interesting for sure
I have to admit, the snappy QTE swap is a great tech but that's only one against many cons (TV, shared ult, etc.)
@@doedoel035TV's are gone now. Slap "hoyoverse" behined any game and it'll make billions because they're the best at it. No debating
@@Prodigal450no hoyo has games that most likely don't even make 100 million a year
Cheaply made games making more than most AAA titles releasing less actual content than most FTP games. What a time to be alive.
@@elimgarak1127 this.
My personal take is, this is Zenless best month and I don't see the game eclipsing it. The game will continue to lose more players than actually attract more new players. I just don't think it's the best Hoyo's game and the best game out there. It is more inclined to attracting casuals which is a great strategy. However, there are more really good gacha choices out these year than in previous years. Unlike Genshin, it didn't really have a real competition when it came out. Zenless Zone Zero will have to compete with other gacha games including including their own games Genshin and HSR.
I think the average gacha games hardcore players play is three. For casuals, it's one. Since most of the playerbase of Hoyo are casuals, they will most likely choose one of the three. That means abandoning one to play the other.
Kuro small game company who cruised by making 2mil per month.
Mihoyo, not so small game company that make 150-300mil per month.
Ah yes, gotta defend Goliath against David.
@@zealgaming8161 ? I did not defend hoyo at all! Quite the contrary. I agree with you. Kuro is doing a fantastic job of carving out a space for themselves in the market
@@horg7203 I was just being sarcastic to the clouds. I'm a Kuro glazer now after picking up PGR and WuWa at same time and while WuWa is a great game, it has a long way to go to be on par with how absurdly good PGR is.
@@horg7203no it just got old genshin players in fact the game is close close to genshin it's not even different. It's just genshin with more grind and not it's not close to a souls like game it piss ass easy
Dam gacha smack actually pointed out something important, the hoyoverse shills who make them money, didn't go up. Personally i would never put a dime into any hoyoverse game ever again. Wuthering waves and kuro won me over, they care about their players and have a good product and also allows the people who are not able to pay, they allow them to enjoy the game to.
Damn Kuro laggy buggy dick feel that good wuwa is ok but not some masterpiece no game is.
hoyo need taking love of deepspace playerbase , i think mihoyo need more promote tears of themis or creater another otome games
I think mid term we are going to see watering down of all IP's. ppl may just get burned out of hoyo formula. we are also for a first time in a competition cos Wuwa eat Genshin and ZZZ playerbase and there will be more similiar games.
I also predict that HSR is going to go down significantly on average as revenue. Yeah there will be occasional spikes but even FF/RM didnt break any records. The game starts to feel stale and Luofu is just boring. Genshin will have 3 spikes - start of NAtlan, Mavuika, Capitano.
Regarding Wuwa I consider 2 major weakness - the game is not theorycrafter friendly i.e. you dont have complex iteraction between teammates, elements, echoes etc. Secondly, Wuwa needs imo a content that is streamfriendly. something that you can do with minimum rewards but takes a lot of time and repeatable. something to grind and stream.
In the end u cant say much cause its 1 month, ZzZ is in honeymoon phase and has top up bonuses and the other 2 hoyo games are kinda flat atm. It will be much more interesting when Natlan comes out, how much Genshin is still able to make now with ZzZ and Wuwa as competition and on the other side how much WuWa and ZzZ make then.
hoyoverse in this month made 10% more revenue so do they actually canalized themself I don't think so. All I see is they found a way to make money in dead patchs of their games by rotating it.
Why arent we considering the theory of Wuwa being part of the same audience? It did have the same exposure ZZZ had or at least 60% give or take. I dont think gacha players are just hoyoverse plays vs non hoyv players
I think at a point we had people being exposed to gacha through genshin but we had already had existing gacha players before that. Overtime the new gacha players found other niches that they liked...or they didnt. But I do think Wuwa was that similar game to genshin that a good number of hoyoverse players know/play.
but lets consider the "Silent majority", the players who "for the sake of understanding what Im saying" only recieve hyv marketing, this is where I see the hyv games just passing around their revenue accross the 3 games without overall raising the bar. Although notice how I said 3, hyv actually has 5 games. Hi3 and tears of themis should've seen a boom due to that genshin exposure but why didnt they?
I can see an argument that hi3 is too far into its life cycle and would be hard to get into, but Tears of Themis is an otome game...just like love and deepspace so why did Tot heavily underperform compared to a direct competitor?
thoughts?
Hoyoverse has six games GGZ is still active
@@eddieboston6540 I somehow keep thinking that it's not...
The problem about the space is if you're an average wuwa player asking a sincere question that this revenue doesn't cover PC/PS5 they think you're coping. It's pretty obvious that these gacha games have revenue on all platforms available to their current version. And no even if the combined revenue of wuwa it will not be able to topple a game from Hoyoverse Big 3 that's just a fact and only time will tell if Wuwa will garner a much larger playerbase as time goes by.
@@HazardTone in the case of WuWa I don’t think we’re coping. I firmly believe a large portion of the player base play exclusively on PC. I’m willing to bet in fact that many people who played in mobile in month 1 actually moved over to PC too!
@@horg7203 true their first month revenue was over 100 Million and 30% of those are in mobile devices that just meant that Their PC revenue is higher. And I too, if I just have a PC I would be playing this on PC there's just so much button to press. It's even harder than playing CODM
I'm surprised you say you play gacha games but didn't even take to into count money is base on the character on the banner.
Genshin is in a full rerun patch with characters who have had multiple reruns and it's next big 5.0 patch with every time before in the past when a new nation drops the revenue before it drops. We have already seen genshin make that amount in the past to finish it's a open world game the only one hoyo has.
Hsr had jade a character not many people wanted on top the patch before hsr made was over 90 million to think a gacha game will make 90 million ever patch is insane with hsr being a turn base game
Gacha games have low patches but i do find it funny you didn't talk about wuthering waves at all even though smack does in that video.
I'll tell you what happened hsr and genshin had patches many didn't want to spend on so if not for ZZZ that 96 million would have been lost right away making you and smack look stupid.
Your what if doesn't matter it's just poisoning the well you nor i know if ZZZ would have made the same amount, less or more we have zero info on how much genshin and hsr made on pc/console except that one time genshin made more then PlayStation as a whole.
ZZZ, HSR, GENSHIN are very different games a ZZZ a urban hack in slash, HSR a space fantasy turn base, Genshin a open world classic fantasy they completely different game genres
I question your job base off your very lacking though you put in you just agree without doing any research and base off want you said it sounds more like you didn't agree with the other takes.
It's clear you have a bias in fact to prove you wrong hoyo has other games that aren't making a increase in the games revenue.
Those being honkai impact 3 and tears of themsis they also have GGZ but i have no idea how much money it makes.
Comparing one game revenue to hoyo highest amount earned is stupid it should have been by a average which smack said was a 10% increase. Infact this was even brought up when star rail came out a genshin revenue dropped hard so why now does it matter so much I'll tell you because of wuthering waves. Smack went out of his way to discredit ZZZ revenue while at the same time justifying wuwa losing 20 million.
This isn't hard to under and not that deep to figure out ZZZ made big because it caught some of the people were not going to spend in genshin or hsr in July.
@@eddieboston6540 I have clarified multiple times now in the comment section, the same one where you’ve left multiple comments now, that this is in fact my first ever gacha game.
I come from shooters and sekiro and bloodborne.
There is a lot I do not know, so I welcome all comments like this as long as they’re constructive!
What is the point tho? Do games have to bring more revenue when it's already making a sh*t ton other devs can onyl dream of, Hoyo then pours a majority of their prpfit into music, cultural programs, top of thr line music development. My real question is how a character thats so sexy thay it makes every young man sweat and wet couldnt do better when in reality that the gacha spending crowd is THAT big. That begs more of an observation than trying to figure out if Hoyo made money or not XD. FYI, im in advertising and marketing as well.
@@BrianCarreraShaw I’ll summarize the points :
1. Hoyo has effectively added more overhead and hasn’t gained any market share
2. WuWa has taken significant market share in the space
3. Regardless of all of this, ZZZ has performed well individually
4. Since they did not capture a new market and essentially shifted their already captive audience over to their new IP, I am not confident that ZZZ will keep up their revenue.
Why?
The points above and all of the sponsorship campaigns are pretty much over with. This is what viral marketing, as I’m sure you know, is for. Create a big wave for initial release.
I am confident Mtashed will not touch this game anymore. Tectone very rarely. Asmongold straight up just said he dislikes it and then proceeded to 100% Wuthering waves instead.
Mr.Pokke is basically the only CC still defending the game at this stage. Which is smart. Nobody else plays it from “their crowd”, so he gets the pocket of that audience who still enjoys ZZZ. He gets 100% of that psychographic if all of the other CCs in “their group” stop playing ZZZ and the audience only has him to go to.
Strategically, there is no use for him to compete with Mtashed, Tectone, Fob, Gacha, etc etc if he could instead go ahead and focus on the game that none of them like and gain 100% of the audience who agrees with him instead of having 20% of the audience who agrees that ZZZ is not particularly great at the moment.
That’s it.
@@horg7203ok so everything you just said wasn't facts just your opinion on top the people you named are only important in en the CN player base doesn't even know who some are. Then you just outright lied it take one TH-cam search to see multiple CC defending ZZZ.
Jesus. When will people learn that Hoyo games are overcensored trash with childish writing? When will other, newer, better games release to take the cake away from hoyo? WuWa had a chance, but they kind screwed it up and they also didn't really go far from hoyo censorship-wise...
Anyway, I wish all the bad to Hoyo and all the best to Shift UP (NIKKE), because this is the only truly good, fun, well-written, uncensored gacha out there.
Bullshit thank your childish take some where else
I'm no business man but I'm using more of a common sense point of view. so feel free to correct me if I'm off.
Wouldn't Hoyo making the same revenue with an additional product be a loss in net revenue? Every game requires money to keep up, as well as advertising which they are aggressively pushing. I get so many ZZZ ads it makes my head spin lol. In a vacuum it looks like ZZZ is doing great and it did do great, but overall I don't see that as a win. Especially when they were making more with less mouths to feed so to speak.
@@CamronSaltado 1000%.
That’s why the churn discussion is an important one. A company doesn’t set out to deliberately lower their margins. They’d only make these types of “concessions” if they believe the alternative is worse…
The alternative would be : change nothing and lose more players to the gacha newcomers like Wuthering Waves and any other upcoming ones that have made waves!
In other words : 50% of something isn’t 100% of it , but it’s still better than nothing !
@horg7203 I can definitely see that. It's basically trying to mitigate as much loss as possible?
@@CamronSaltado exactly !
@@CamronSaltadono money comes from people who pull or not making more in june then in July means a unit was wanted or not wanted
@eddieboston6540 We're aware, and no one is arguing otherwise.
But it is strange that this year, genshin had multiple dead patches in a row and performed much better than this. It's also strange that coincidentally, both Honkai and Genshin have some of the lowest revenue I've seen coinciding with ZZZ's launch. That could have very well been intentional on Hoyo's part. We don't know. Since we don't have multiple months of data to look at, we can't come to a conclusion yet only speculate. We'll have to see what happens to ZZZ's revenue once genshin drops Natlan and Honkai have better characters available. After a couple of months of data, we can come to a full conclusion.
People forget to look at the ( big Pic) IT STILL OVER 100 million dollars per month that Hoyo is making... end of the day they winning no matter how we look at it.
( personally hate hoyo refuse to give them a single dillar )
interms of revenues yes, but in terms of stock maybe not. but i don't buy Hoyo stocks so idk.
@@dragonkus6934 in my opinion the big picture is in fact that hoyo had a bit of a monopoly and WuWa genuinely took some of their market share and brought new players into the space.
They carved out a piece of the pie for themselves whereas hoyo’s piece of the pie either stayed the same or actually shrank.
I myself for example have never played any gacha games before WuWa. Kuro won me over as a net new player in this space, I was not even here before ! That’s “capturing a new market” as gachasmack would say.
@@horg7203see your doing it again you don't even think that ZZZ pulled new players when it did and most of WUWA players are old genshin players they didn't get anything new just the people hoyoverse loss.
I missed the part where this is a company vs company ranking? This is a single game ranking. The entire premise is flawed based on this ranking. Explain why hi3 is consistently low if it's just using the same playerbase? Zzz wouldn't make that money if it wasn't a good game.
You don't get the point. Smack is talking about the Hoyoverse as a whole there is barely increase in revenue is what's he talking about. Of course you can't deny ZZZ major success but of you look at the charts given on "MOBILE" CN players dominated that woth a whooping 70% of their total revenue which is not really that shocking cuz Hoyoverse is a popular Gacha company in CN and they will always pay no matter what. He also mentioned that if he wanted to grasp the full picture of it being a failure/success he will wait for a few months to judge.
@@HazardTone I think you are missing the point. It's a single game ranking. It's not a company ranking. It's a fallacy in argumentation because the list isnt ranking companies.
Secondly, a crappy game wouldn't sell just because of who produced it. Just look at their games like hi3 and tears, they don't ever reach these heights. So it's a fallacy in reasoning to claim it only did well cause it's a hoyo game.
Lastly, it's a cop out to claim that the success or failure of zzz is contingent on then getting a new audience. Whether they do or not is irrelevant to the success of a game that has the ability to rake in 100 mil a month from mobile alone. The game was clearly a success, regardless of who decided to spend and play the game.
Additionally, we do not know the short term or even long term goals of hoyoverse. They have analytics of the industry we simply don't have. If the audience in the gacha space is capped then you'd best believe they have that knowledge. Therefore their goal may be to monopolize the gacha space rather than appealing to a new audience. This is another reason why gacha smacks arguments are fallacies on reasoning.
Conclusion: the only way to assess this list is based on the information it's providing. And that information is how much a single game made for the month. Each game has its own team, own goals, own features, own revenue and own overheads. Merging different games together because it's one company is not how the list is made.
What about the gacha players that are playing 3+ games at one time on the same list, buying the BP/monthly for different companies? An example would be: genshin, wuwa, nikke, dbz, etc... they aren't from the same company but one player can be playing them all and spending in all of them. So it's just a ridiculous argument to make and it's sad to see a professional sales VP make a video on it like it's something profound.
It seems along with maths and market knowledge, he didn't learn critical thinking 101
Games don't just pull 100 mil as average games.
@@saiwaqa2573 I know that it's a single ranking and he obviously knows that as well. And you should understand he is the one making that statement and he didn't present it as facts. He also mentioned that in order to get the bigger picture, is to give it a few months cuz for now you can't really decide that much cuz it's a newly released game. in my perspective Hoyo is not really looking for more audience they just wanted to make their players cycle their money to their games that's why they're making a different type of genre, it's to cycle their player through dead patches of every game.
@@HazardTone to make his argument he assumes too many things. It's clear to anyone who has knowledge of argumentation that he made that fallacious argument to support his claim that even tho wuwa has lost money this month, overall it's a success because of how poorly pgr does. It's such a bad argument and can be demolished instantly, just as easily with the points I've laid out. But I wouldn't expect a cc to have any ability to make proper arguments.
That being said, pushing his reaction as a VP of sales is really embarrassing and if I were this cc, no way I'd attach that title to my video if I'm agreeing with gacha smacks fallacious reasoning.
@@saiwaqa2573 to add smack is not really talking about revenue he is just using revenue as a basis cuz his main point did zzz gain a new audience and in that regards I think his ppint is valid. But revenue wise zzz still a major success not just successful like HSR and GI on their launch though.
ZZZ is not cheap to make either. It's rumored that the total cost of that game is somewhere between $150-200 million dollars with marketing being the majority of the cost. They can definitely recoup that budget but the game has significantly lower earnings than either Genshin and HSR in its first month alone.
It's already over for Kurogames guys 🤣 ZZZ peaked
@@Noobster474 so…then it’s over for ZZZ? Hmm confusing sentence
@@horg7203 peak is like reaching the top of the ranks ✋😭🔥
@@Noobster474 It also means that it's only downhill from there.
Fake sale... ZZZ IS a shiit game and thats no 1 WTF bro... Confirm hoya has funded this sales... Dead sales graph..
We have to admit though, they funded it really well and made the game look really good on paper. They made both Genshin and HSR take the fall in numbers so that Hoyo's cult followers of spend their money on ZZZ for now
Nice excuse
Zzz does nothing interesting at all. It is the same old boring instanced gacha game.
@@TheFreakinTrees I did enjoy the game while I played it though to be fair, that being said…I did not find myself drawn back to it the next day. Instead, I launched Wuthering waves and had fun!
@@horg7203WUWA does nothing new hell if not for genshin it wouldn't even exist and before you say it BOTW was not the first open world game far from it. WUWA is what I call 90% genshin and 10% original
zzz is such a bad game , i have no clue why