😂 totally valid 😂Throughout the ages, we evolved, we survived, we outlasted and outsmarted humans' pesky poisons and traps. One day we will rise and claim our power!!! First, we just have to agree on a theme song- one goth anthem to rule them all🎶🪳🎶
lol, I do cook at night and sometimes when I am lucky, the little bats greet me flying around the house when I "wake" up in the late evening... sadly true. but also, very stupidly romantic. sad that they are so fast one can hardly see them, but I do... at least a bit of them. yeah I know I am bats. (found that phrase lately and love it to bits.) 😁☺🤭
Just the other day I was explaining to someone that this incessant need to put goth into this box regarding purely aesthetics does way more harm than good. In this fight to include everyone it becomes a form of isolation and competition on who's the darkest of them all! Just listen to the music for crying out loud and have fun!
@@angelabenedict Very true Angela. We don't need to be hindered by Normies who think they can isolate us from the subculture and like minded people we can feel comfortable with.
Throwing a label based on music, is like picking your videogame character. Just be you... My 12year daughter is going through a lot trying to find herself. She loves the goth kids on south park.... I'm like it's not like that., But it's like that. Just be yourself.
It becomes more about the fashion rather than the music too, as example I'm in my 30s and have whole my life seen goths (even if I remember emo being bigger when I was younger) and it took many years before I actually found out it's a music and not a fashion style, I thought it was like as example the Japanese fashion style Lolita where the fashion more becomes like a lifestyle, though I assumed that they probably listened to darker music like darker metal, rock or electronic music.
I made the mistake of trying to box myself into a goth subtype when I was younger. It got very boring very quickly. Some days I want to go more traditional, other days I feel more inspired by ethereal wave and renaissance gowns. Sometimes I don’t even want to look visibly goth at all. What matters is the music, above all else. It is the heart and soul of the subculture. The only use I’ve gotten out of these sub-styles is when I’m online shopping lol. They’re helpful keywords, but that’s about it.
I'm glad you've found your way free of that. I didn't realize how much of a thing it was until I started my channel. I got to communicate with and hear from all of the new/younger goths and their views and experiences. Some of them gave me whiplash! Unfortunately with the over saturation of people with bigger platforms, if they decide they want an opinion on goth - their content buries ours and new goths will find theirs before they find ours. Luckily a ton are smarter than we really give them credit for because they tend to sense something amiss and find their way.
This is me too! I have days where the attire just changes based on my mood, overall I just genuinely like to wear black (I've been very darkly-inclined since late high school and am now getting more into goth the past few years). Totally agree, it all just comes down to the music, which I am also still exploring and I'm about tired of all these 'boxes'. And yes, they are helpful keywords online :P.
Ah, shit, here we go again :flashbacks of those artworks with the goth (stereo) types: I feel like this is a part of the tiktok obsession with -cores and aesthetics that need to be more and more obscure. I expect to start seeing "Goth forest mushroom ivy hag-core" but also "Pastel latex barbie blonde bimbo goth". Some people want to _belong_ to a subculture, but _only_ if they also get to be super special and unique. You know, "not like other goths" :DD
i came across a tiktok -core thing the other day and it was the stupidest shite like muppetcore or something, like i understand wanting to be a part of something but how many unoriginal tacked on -core “aesthetics” need to be made. sometimes what you like doesn’t need to be labeled (or it’s so niche that just saying you like it is better than adding -core to it).
Careful, we don't wanna give anyone ideas. That's the last thing we need...Well, one of the last things. The world has a funny way of playing the 'Hold my beer' game.
I'm a goth and that's all I am. I'm someone who loves the music and I'm also someone you'll mostly see in a black t-shirt and black sweatpants. I'm a goth who also likes metal and rave music. I'm phrasing it like that because goth is the subculture I personally align with because the music hits me on a soul level I can never quite put into words.
. rave is more about not putting it into words while goth music often has still stories to tell and I always hated it when people told me stories while singing, so I enjoyed the rave music more since it left me alone, but the goth music has the sad moment, the melancholy that is well appreciated so the stories aren't that crucial and unnerving that much... or something like that. it is well about the sound, the voices are more a plus or a nice give-away on top of it. it is how I see it. both has it's justification. edit: I forgot, then at the time there was also the industrial coming up which was a middle between rave and goth, I'd say, so some people did dwell inside that, cause it connected the two genres a bit... but sadly it vanished quite soon. it was just like a "blip", a very short one... I even forgot it existed but just came to my mind just now, like a flash, lol... it had the dark aesthetic of goth music but the slight craziness of the rave music as well, that is what I would describe industrial. ( I am not a music expert but music and sounds were always important to me. only heavy metal could never fetch me anywhere... too brutal. )
This!! This is me too! The only goth “subtype” I would consider myself would I guess be babybat since despite being nearly 30 I’m still relatively new to goth lol. But after finding the music a couple of ago I immediately knew that it was special and that’s why i call myself goth
There are only two things that qualify someone to be a goth, and one is non-negotiable. The important one is listening to the music. The lesser one is sacking Italy.
Aaaahhh, I remember that huge list from the late 90s! 😂. I find myself on instagram often reassuring baby bats that they can wear t shirts and cargo shorts with stompy boots and be goth. Goodness, those fetish models have the poor newbies thinking they can’t ever wear comfortable clothes.
I was a fetish model in the early 2000's rocking the latex. There was that weird period where the fashion and the subculture overlapped and there were combined events. As for the tees, cargo shorts and stompy boots - You just described many a goth from my area in the 90s.
@@angelabenedict i meant the IG “goths” who do it for the brand sponsorship ;) Yep, pretty much every goth I spent time with in the 90s wore the tshirt + cargo shorts + stompy boots! Sometimes there were fishnets if it wasn’t super hot outside.
My style fluctuates so much, I can't imagine sticking to just one "subtype". Somedays I wake up and want to go all out trad, somedays I want to look deathrock, some days I want to look like a vampire. Some days I wake up wanting to imitate one of my goth or goth adjacent idols. The "goth types" are interesting to me, but if you see them as categories to they become so harmful and restrictive. I see them like a closet of various things that I can take inspiration from and channel into my look for the day. But the labels don't actually matter because goth is goth :)
Hey, does anyone else remember those facebook quizzes where they were supposed to help you discover what type of goth you were? Gosh, I can't believe I ever took them seriously. I remember teen me, who really enjoyed rock and metal and had only a little bit of tipped into goth music, feeling weird because they made me feel like a poser. Because I wasn't dressing like that since I was a minor and couldn't afford to buy my own clothes, plus the insecutiry of knowing that I wouldn't look good in "goth" outfits. When I first discovered your channel quite a few years ago, and I heard you saying "goth is goth, doesn't matter how you dress, just enjoy the music, goth subgenres when it comes to fashion are BS" that was very liberating 💙
all of this reminds me of like when people see someone in all black and think “oh that’s a goth”, like no the clothing isn’t everything especially now with people in techwear/egirl/alternative styles that are also all black based. and heck sometimes goths just feel like wearing an oversized white shirt. there’s this anime-style webcomic that ticks me off so so much because the main girl is dressed like an egirl/scene and her room is mcr/emo themed and yet the comic is called Goth Girl and the Jock, and it’s so easy to see that the creator really does not know shite about goth music or the culture behind it 🙄 but ooo people will click on it because of the title, especially after the “big tiddy goth gf” crazy (in the anime community it was so..so very bad, talk about people who feel “misunderstood” then promptly not giving af about learning other peoples’ interests)
I don't mind the notion of goth subtypes as long as it is 100% understood by everyone in the conversation that it is descriptive, and not prescriptive. That is to say, it's ok to look at someone dressed in an accurate 19th century outfit and refer to them as a victorian goth, as long as you understand this doesn't raise any expectation of them. They wanna go cyber tomorrow, or listen to EBM or industrial bands, that is their prerogative, and it's nobody's business boxing them into a stereotype just because they saw them wearing a corset and lace once. Edit: After seeing the list Angela ran through in the latter part of the video, i realized we may not be speaking about the same thing. That thing is definitely a joke, tongue-in-cheek, and meant as such. I was referring mostly to certan specific aesthetic/musical interest combos in the subculture, like victorian, steampunk, romantic, trad, aetherial, etc. It's useful to have words for these, to describe the many ways in which the folks within the subculture express themselves. It's not so useful to use these words to box them in to preconceived notions.
Agreed! Seeing the goth types from 95 reminded me of the old "Goth Code" some of us used at the bottom of forum posts online back then to tell others what we were specifically into
Well said Angela! Thans for addressing the whole goth "sub type" thing and what it really came from. That list was too funny. I can't tell you how many anoying af goth "sub type" hash tags I've seen🙄😒 I hope those people people see this video🖤
Glad you enjoyed it! It's so weird seeing people take that concept to heart and I'm thinking about the ophidagoth and coughgoth having a battle with wheezing and legless reptiles.
I tend to call myself a Deathrocker just to signal to people that I still have a foot in Punk culture. Having said this, I agree with what you're saying here. The number of misconceptions that people still have about Goth culture is pretty astounding!
I gotta say, you're makeup is gorgeous. And thank you for pointing out that goth and metal are not the same thing. There is a tendancy for some people to lump goths and metalheads together, and it kinda drives me up the wall, because not all goths listen to metal and not all metalheads listen to goth music, and they don’t all look and dress the same either. - from a metalhead
Thank you! Not worries. It's a strange misconception considering how different the genres are. For contrast, can you imagine following up 'Lycia' with 'Cannibal Corpse'?
You always articulate yourself so well. 100% agree with what you’re saying. Goth is a music based sub culture 1st. Also as a goth you’re allowed to listen to other generes, not just goth. Imagine just listening to 1 music genre your whole life? That would get absolutely boring. My music shuffle can go from the sisters of mercy to wutang clan real quick because I’m not boxed into 1 music genre. Same thing with aesthetics we don’t have to be boxed into 1 thing and just stay into it like how the younger crowd thinks we need to. My outfits are all over the place. The most important thing about goth is the music. If you listen to goth you’re goth. Everything else is just secondary and not mandatory.
Honestly from everything I gathered the people who live their lives mostly on the internet are the ones who convolute, debate, or try to change the subculture to their own fitting. But people who actually listen to the music, and just want to hang out in real life with people that like to jam out to some good goth tunes too know it’s all a bunch of nonsense.
100% it took me actually attending goth artists' concerts to see that. the people i saw enjoying the whole thing the most, were people you wouldn't tell they're in the subculture based on how they look.
@@desireesmith862 initially I thought it was a joke when I was told people were taking it seriously. This is back when I first started my TH-cam channel. I had people commenting from both sides of the camp, one saying that they needed to choose their subtype and the other side feeling bullied and excluded because they didn't want to choose a subtype. That's when I started looking into it and saw that it blew up into this thing where a joke for many years ago, somehow got spun into truth.
Well spoken Angela. It is about the music. Goth fashion is a personal choice. When I chose to create a fashion choice that combines Corp Goth and LDS , I chose classical music and neo classical darkwave. I am still open to learning from other Goth subculture choices. Encouraged to keep with Goth subculture appreciation.
Thank you! I personally love seeing the styles that come out of peoples personalities. It's a reflection of the way the music makes them feel. It's like art.
When I went to goth nights 20-30 years ago, I honestly don't think people thought of labeling each other by look. It was all varied, but similar. If anything was labeled it was the sounds of various of bands - Goth rock, death rock, industrial, ebm etc. You could kind of tell by a persons look what bands they were more into, but it wasn't important. Not everyone enjoyed the same sound, but it was nice to mix it up in a similarly minded group. Of course, the passers-by often mentioned "Rocky Horror night again, eh?" which always drew a good laugh out of us.
Like Angela, I became involved in the goth subculture as a teen in the mid-90s ('95-'96) and still am to this day. This practice of labeling and placing people in strictly defined aesthetic boxes exists solely on social media and within some online communities, in my experience. It's funny, but also kind of sad to think that something that was intended as a lighthearted attempt by goths to poke fun at the scene, became so misconstrued. While social media/online communities are a vital tool to discuss and learn about new music, the best way to use them is for finding and interacting with your own local goth community through events/shows/meet-ups in your area. For baby bats nervous about interacting with other goths face to face, just remember as long as you have a love of the music and desire to learn you will be welcomed with open arms by your local goth community. You certainly don't have to conform to a cookie cutter aesthetic or spend a fortune on your wardrobe to belong. DIY has always been a beloved part of the subculture.
Con mucho respeto y gratitud. Solo quería dejar comentarios y decir que esto funcionó . He tenido tanta lucha estos últimos tres años. ¡Gracias, Maestro Unicornio Negro! 💜
If you would have asked me in 1981 as a wee high school sophomore, if goth would still be around, let alone still be one 40+ years later, I would have emphatically said said yes! I’m so glad I was right. Also, its really fun to see the evolution 😊
It's one thing to have a preferred go to style (such as preffering elegant or punk-like styles), but to feel obligated to just one seems rather soul destroying.
As a goth since 1985 I love the idea of subtypes... I used to call myself a Visigoth! 🤪 We are Goth we are one individual and together. Non conformity is the norm.
Please post this video EVERYWHERE. It’s so interesting how much you see/hear the more “tame” names on this list get thrown around with sincerity. Great Video Angela!
This is why I like your theory about being Goth is to be into Goth Music. The fashion was kinda not as accessible to me being in a blue collar rural area who couldn’t always just wear all black (like having to wear high visibility orange for work) . I knew what defined me a goth was my love for Bauhaus, SOM and Souxsie.
as a baby bat, thank you!!! I had no idea! I wasn't really prescribing to one style o was just taking elements of my own style and goth creators and goth trends of the 80s and mashing them together into something I liked lmao. i just wear whatever i think looks cool, and am currently trying to diy some more pieces i can wear since i heard its very encouraged since this is how they used to do it and also i dont have money so this is much easier anyway but since i cant go out to any goth clubs or anything irl to get away from the chronically online goths its really hard to find out whats true and whats just bullshit. i really appreciate people like you helping us baby bats out with navigating a subculture thats become so much bigger and more muddled than what it actually was. im just mostly trying to listen to elder goths and people like you who seem much more in line with what goth actually is
The way you explained the power that music has for us at 6:48 is truly beautiful. So many times I wish I could tell how goth music makes me feel and the bond it has given me with my friends in the scene.
It's a bit like when punk first started in the late 70s. At first I recall it was a very creative movement where the uniform was what ever you felt like donning that day. T-shirt, jeans and converse. Sport jacket with sticky up hair. A cardigan with a safety pin. It was a be yourself music based movement. But then media got it, sanitized the safety pin as it were and happened to codify the look into leather jacket, jeans and maybe docs. Then, you couldn't really be punk unless you had the leather jacket. I'm afraid to say I never had the leather jacket. Oh well.
Agree with you Angela. Those boxes kills creativity and own style. When I was younger I mixed things after what I loved (or if I could get the stuff or make it myself). I think I already been bored by looks, if I had to stay in one box. Boxes stop the limit of being individual and creative. Only box I have is Goth (the music box including all types). But I still listen to other music too, depending on mood. We used to joke also about those stereotypes when I was younger. And had our laughs about it. Nothing we didn't take serious at all. I am like you, love to see the variety of all. Stay safe gorgeous Angela 🦇🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🦇
Yes! When you put yourself inside a box, you're leaving so many other great things outside it and isolating yourself. DIY was great because it's customized from your very soul. What's better than that?
I consider myself goth adjacent, it’s hard to find Goth events here in Australia that don’t involve night clubs and even they are few and far between. I’ve always loved live music and music festivals in general. When I started seeing videos of the big festivals happening in Germany, I wanted in. In 2017 I took the plunge and purchased a ticket to WGT in Leipzig. I then booked my plane ticket and accomodation. A few days before I flew out, I went to Gallery Serpentine to get my outfit. When I finally arrived I felt like I had landed on another planet. Friday afternoon at my first Victorian Picnic and I was completely overwhelmed and on the verge of tears. I just could not believe the effort people put into their outfits and how surreal the whole experience felt. I have been to scores of trippy festivals and i considered myself a very experienced recreational drug user but this was different. There were no drugs in my system and no one around was high, but looking around, I felt like I had landed in a real Alice in Wonderland.
I'm both a Goth and a Metalhead for almost 15 years... I love Goth Rock and Darkwave and Deathrock as well as Technical Death Metal, Progressive Metal and Black Metal.. I would say I'm a mixture of a happy Goth I mainly wear dark colors but sometimes I wear medium colors. I have blue, green and silver hair... I have lots of spiked hand cuffs on my wrists and different color nails from black and purple to light blue and golden.. I work 2 jobs one I can dress the way that I want, but the other is a collard polo grey shirt and jeans... I change before I leave that job lol.. I like Pastel Goth, Trad Goth, and Cybergoth which i mix into my aesthetic here and there.
When I was younger I would tell people that I was a vampire 🧛🏻♂️ goth because I would wear big white frilled shirts and trench coats. As I got older I started experimenting with different styles but I would always tell people that I was a romantic trad vampire goth because I liked the way it sounded and not because I literally thought that I was a vampire or that I had to dress that way to be goth I always treated it with a huge pinch i on f salt 😅. My love of the Sisters of Mercy, the Fields of the Nephilim , the cult , the cure, Siouxie and the banshees, alien sex fiend and the Damned was the underlining ties that conceded me to the subculture even when I wasn’t dressing Goth.
I’ve loved the gothic style before I started listening to goth music. I found bands I absolutely love! I keep finding more. I live the fact more people are saying “you don’t need to dress gothic to be goth.” I actually found a goth club in my city that I can’t wait to go to!
It would be so exhausting for me to choose one goth style. I have been part of the scene since the end of the 90s and I have been a glam and 90s rock fan long before that. I love the whole long dress and corset style as well as ripped jeans and oversized shirts. it depends on my mood that day
I feel like a fraud. I'm not goth. But here I am, nodding along learning about it acting like I knew this the whole time 😂😂 From what I've gathered: Goth is goth is goth is goth. What's goth? A subculture based around goth music.
Been watching you alot lately and really glad youtube put you in my reccs. I'll admit I love metal as much as goth. It's an even split for me. Kinda thought of myself as a metal goth since this old book I had by Raven Digitalis that I got when I was young had a whole section of these subtypes and I did think they were legit for awhile. One good thing though was each one had a list of bands and it was my early exposure to real goth music - Christian Death, Inkubus Sukkubus, Sopor Aeternus, etc. But yeah I understand now those subtypes aren't for real, just fashion inspiration at best. Also I love that your vids have been showing me songs I never heard before. The Ghost of Me has been on repeat for me for the last couple days now :D
It confused me at first too.. even though Goth is Goth.. I remember scrolling down Facebook and people said "I thought Goth were Goth, but now I know now there is more subgenres in the Goth Culture" No it's not, Goth is listening to the Gothic Music, that's all.
no, thats not right either. some where their for the aesthietic, some looking to push boundries. some to experiment. what united us wasn't just music, it was a level of acceptance and inclusion, and peace, you couldnt get anywhere else.
@@LadyFrostsUniverse nah, dont worry. it all grew hand in hand. it all fed into each other. i really miss the days when people could just show up, and they where your brother and sister. i remember when i first started going to goth clubs in detroit. i was a real wall flower, but no one bothered me, so i kept coming. it was like three months until i talked to someone. turned out, alot of people larped masquerade. by standing to the side with my arms crossed, apparently i was signaling that i was invisible😄 it was embarrassing, but everyone, larper or not repected it. somewhere along the way we let ourselves be divided. doesnt have to be forever though.
Absolutely! We'll never forget where we came from. It's crazy to see the evolution. Born of punk to modern day ethereal. It's crazy to see but it fits so well!
I saw it for the first time a few years back I thought it was very odd seeing most openly wanting to pigeon whole themselves and getting flustered they didn’t fit solely in one style. Few including myself educated on the matter of course were called elitist and gatekeepers 🤣. Could you imagine if the normy keyboard warriors met an actual aul hardass around in the 80s now in their 60s. They’d curl up in a ball of mush at the interrogation questioning on their knowledge while trying to act all knowing like Jeebus 🤣. Edit: I will be referring baby bats as goth sprouts now 😩🥺 that was the cutest 🌱🥺.
I think it was in the late 90's or early nillies that they came up with all those sub-types you could search out which one you belonged, a bit like how people now try to figure out what kind of dog they are, after answering 20 questions... It left me puzzled because I belonged to none... Got a hang for the Trad Goth-music, I liked Christian Death, Virgin Prunes and esp. Fields of the Nephilim... but also Current 93, PTV & Coil... 23 Skidoo, Nurse With Wound, ... but also Glam Rock and 70's Prog Rock (esp. King Crimson)... And it all bleeded into my clothes (DIY bandshirts, flared jeans, long Bolan hair, bracelets, DIY necklaces, ...)... Seriously toned down at the age of 49, but proud wearer of a 'not even a real goth' button, because it is alright to fit in not looking the part...
I would consider myself a minimalist goth ever since the 90s. I remember reading that long goth types list in the early 2000s. I am def no. 167 - DM for life!
I understand completely! I listen to such a variety of music, I can go from Nick Cave to Taylor Swift lmao. Love me my haunting, dark and poetic novels but I love lighthearted warm clean ones too. I can rock a pretty black outfit but I’ve got pets and don’t have the pleasure of doing so that often, in fact I love pink! I like a simple makeup look simply because I don’t like spending a lot of time doing so. You don’t have to “look” the part all the time to be it. Like you said in my own words, it comes down to the music first and foremost
Was literally caught off guard this past weekend when I got drug to the Goth club with literally nothing to wear. I was out of town visiting my girlfriend when one of our mutual friends asked us to come to club to see Dead Cool play. I've been listening to them for 2 years now and really did want to see them. So.... the only garb in my bag was a pair of black converse, a pair of blue jeans and a black v-neck t short. Not very goth lol. But I went and still got the open arms and hugs you would expect at the club. I even got into an hour conversation with both members of Dead Cool. We talked about synths, and their exposure on Yami and Communion After Dark. As per usual.... I had a blast!!!! Did I miss my Propaganda, TKK or Skinny Puppy shirts? My chunky Demonia boots? My strappy pants? Not as much as I thought I would have. I will however make sure that I'm completely prepared for future last minute plans 🖤
I'm glad you did this video to help baby bats, and other people who may have self esteem issues. The list you showed is insane and no one could fit into these without going completely insane. The sad fact that so many people have lost their sense of self, and not been able to do what they want because of this list and others; because of gate keepers/elitists, is just wrong. Helping people who are new or as I said, have self esteem issues is so important. Being young and impressionable makes it hard to know what to feel for many people. In the end, if a person can learn to love themselves the way they are, and have freedom of expression, it will be so much better for them. Individuality is what makes the world interesting and fun; without it, and being stuck in a mold is so boring. If you haven't already done it, and are interested in doing so; maybe you could next tackle helping baby bats with the differences between Goth music and other types of music. I think many people don't really understand the differences. Just a thought. Take care Sweetie
I was a young kid I just into the 50s and 60 music sand I got into music like the B-52's Echo & the Bunnymen and the one and only David Bowie I start listen to his stuff and I love a lot of industrial stuff now 67 years old and I still listen to my music New Wave Punk goth industrial but real live at nowhere to go and dress up in here. This music I order a tons of gotham music New Wave Punk I celebrate at home don't wear any makeup you too and I love it who not lived in Miami I did cuz he went to all the clubs and all the concerts I consider myself Gothic Industrial but I does a lot of bands that I love glitter Rock dance to
Im A gothhead (goth metalhead) and it sucks cause it feels like to meet people that are also this is if you are dressed in a substyle and i cant do that
@@angelabenedict i currently dont dress like any subculture due to life atm and when i have free time to diy i just feel to depressed to actually do it
I'm a traditional Goth, I absolutely love the 80"s Batcave days and bands like Sisters of Mercy, Bahaus, and Siouxsie and the Banshees. But I'll also listen to Switchblade symphony, London after midnight, and The Bolshoi. Goth is all about the music, not about what someone wears 🖤🖤🖤👻👻👻🦇🦇🦇😁😁😁😁🎃🎃☠️☠️
Very good video and important to know if you're fan of goth music you can call yourself goth even if you don't dress like it. I listen to guite a lot goth and industrial music (at the moment at least) but I wouldnt personally call myself a goth (maybe in the future who knows though the fashion style is really not me I'm more into flower dresses and colour rather than black) because I don't feel I have a favourite music style that I mostly listen to, I have never dressed as a goth or been part of the subculture either, it probably mainly has to do with that I don't know any goths so I just don't feel like part of the subculture even if I have started to explore the music.
that list made me silent laugh 😂. honestly the older i get, the less inclined i am to even use the label, because i pretty much *never* hear it in reference to music. it means *one* thing, and yet, it *feels* like it means a plethora of things. i’m not over the music, but i’m SO over the “label” as it currently stands. however, i think “Existential Goth” is the most hilariously fitting title for me personally. 😂
This reminds me a bit of the vaporwave scene and how it's facing something of a similar problem. Though the oddly honest irony of that particular resulting joke would be something the community appreciates lmao, I know I certainly do. There's a metaphor I've cooked up to help explain more or less how it all works, and I feel it functions for any genre and/or subculture, especially those that find its roots in music. The Fruit Metaphor, if you will. So you have your berries, your citrus, the tropical, the familiar, the exotic, fruit pretending to be veggies (tomatoes and cucumbers i'm looking at you) etc. ad infinitum. You can try to break up the fruit into all these smaller and increasingly ridiculous categories, but at the end of the day these kinds of labels don't really matter, it's all just fruit, and it's all equally delightful.
How i got in to goth was some magazines or fanzine in 90s some ill get in Mexico im Mexican/American and remember and article about the types of goth that were around the time like vampire deathrock and cyber etc but subtypes nowadays are mind blogglin goth 4 life 🦇🦇
I hope they don't invent anything else 😅 because I thought it would reach 200 😬 Changing the subject... you're almost reaching 90K 🥰🖤💜🦇 Let's hope for 100k 🥳😌😽👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻🤜🏻🤛🏻
I’m a Screamsneezergoth. Garlic bread goth. An occasional joint pain goth. But really, it’s getting ridiculous. I still find it fun calling myself “AntiqueMallGoth” though. 😂
this is why i tell people i just dress alternative since that is such a broad blanket term that has everything that isn't considered the "normal" fashion trends
ahh convergence 13 was fun one for road crew stories.. remember when youtube had all the next day omg videos of bill onstage doing social deception as a last minute yep ... and we know where skuppy' will have final home show good chance of coinciding with a birthday visit home but alas luvafair is gone
This made my left eyebrow twitch and I got a good laugh. I once had someone observe that I don't always dress in the same dark aesthetic and they thought that goths were suppose to dress only in one dark aesthetic. I got into an hour long educational rant about how goths can dress however they want, it's about the music. You also don't need to ONLY listen to goth music. In their mind goth was when they saw me wearing a corset, skirt and knee high platform boots, NOT the me working in the lab in a trench coat, black t-shirt and black leggings with combat boots. They basically missed the whole point about it being a music based subculture and that the music can influence how we choose to dress. Not the other way around. I've known goths who dressed "cottage core" or in all pastels. Point is, they love goth music. You do you boo boo and proudly blast some good goth tunes on Spotify as you drive through downtown traffic jams. ;)
I've never been the type to wear makeup or anything. I just wear black everything and leather jackets and combat boots. I've been into the scene since the late 80s. But I love the people who dress to the nines. I love this community. It's always been about accepting everyone and anyone. We're all freaks in our own special way.
3:00 Yea, I remember that. I think I have that meme somewhere. I saw that and it was right, at least how I dress. CASUAL GOTH. AKA: black docs, black jeans, black shirts: concert or club nylon black. Yeah til this day that's how I tend to dress to the club or hang out at home or out in about. The only time I would get into a goth custom was in Halloween. Other than that, I don't have that look of what supposed look like a goth...Then the pagans started to get their influence around mid 2000s, like 2004-02006, Mid-2000s, all of a sudden, then there after the, the Pentagrams Wiccan, satanist infiltrated goth club land from Black Metal. Prior to that, Celtic/roman/German crosses where the accessories with your gothic/or Victorian dress. You can see these goths in some videos in youtube wearing them. I'm just a GenX born in 1972, goth that started in the scene, through Depeche mode, back in 1989/Violator album. Great time to be 19 years old when Kurt Cobain brought ALL Alternative music to the masses! Prior I was into thrash/Metal rock. Going to a alternative dance venue changed my trajectory. And hear I am typing this.
7:45 One last thing... It's about our MUSIC... style, is part of it. Many think Goth is only term to those in the post punk look era. it's NOT. I grew up in the 1990s with the WAXTRAX Industrial/EBM/Synthpop/Coldwave/ NewWave Era. We don't have spiky hair. We're called Rivetheads. Actually they are two camps, the Death rock Goths and the Rivet-heads. Today I guess you can still add the Agrotechers... but that's a dying breed. I never did like that phase back in 2005 to 2009. Something happen in 2010s, nothing really accrued in the scene. Then around 2019 the scene came back, and here we are today in the Summer of 2023.
This was actually really informative. I don’t consider myself a baby bat anymore because I have been listening and further diving into the music and culture for almost 5 years now but there is still a lot to learn and more bands to find. However lately, I have been trying to figure out in what subculture I am in. Am I a vampire goth or a romantic goth? The feelings this has brought up is very similar feelings when I was trying to figure out my sexuality and find the specific label. But you do not need a label. You can just be you and do your own thing.
I do use sub types but most to find specific pieces and describe what music I'm listening to or vibe I am feeling at the time. I feel like if you are trying to be specific it's useful.
Anti-Gatekeeping queen for FOREVER. We love ya for it. Edit, does anyone remember Stripey Tights and Dark Delightz (I think the z was there instead of an s, it's been like...13-15 years since I went to the site!)
I’ve gotten so fed up with all the goth types nonsense lately; it was definitely a thing to “pick a type” when I was a babybat but at the time people didn’t take it quite so seriously. Now I see people absolutely insisting that you *have* to pick a type, or arguing over whether or not somebody is a “vampire goth” or a “trad goth”. I’ve even had a couple people ask me - in real life! - what kind of goth I am. I don’t know how to answer that because I didn’t “pick a type”, I just wear things that I like. And what kind of a question is that to begin with? I know they don’t mean anything rude by it, but as somebody who got involved before micro-aesthetics became a huge thing it makes me feel so old and confused - and I’m not even old I’m tempted to just tell people I’m not a goth at all when they ask; I don’t much care about labeling myself anyways unless we’re talking about music, and I’d be lying if said I didn’t find the idea of giving someone a deadpan “no” while I’m all decked out a little bit funny. Anymore I just start talking about music and those who know, know.
In my hometown the biggest goth store had a motto on all their t-shirts that said " la conformité est la mort de l'âme" witch means conformity is death of the soul. I always found it funny to go to huge goth events like when cradle of filth came to town, and all the goths that were used to be the only outcasts in their suburb or their own little town, with maybe 2 or 3 friends, ALL flocked together, and they all looked exactly the same, or closely. I decided then to try once, to go to the craddle show dressed like I used to when I went to underground raves, so nylon pants so wide they hid my feet, plastic chocker chains, so tight it could rip appart sleeveless t-shirt, all in whiter than white.,I think I even had reflective stripes down the side of my pants. I bet not many non comformists always used to stand out and be stared at ever experienced as much as I did that night, what it truly means to stand out, and stared at. Literally the one and only person in the venue wearing all white in a sea of black velvet, leather and fishnets. Fun night. 10/10 would recommend if you feel confident enough😂
lol apparently not. i do not believe i have ever heard "goth music" as a term for describing a specific and self contained musical genre. i doubt that it is a thing, or it would mean that there is a complete and unique whole musical genre that i have somehow never heard a song of, never heard any one refer to and am still completely unaware of. it so, i cant wait to discover a new sound, so please enlighten me. on a more realistic note, goth is more an aesthetic, a style, and an exgremely wide variety of mediums are appreciated by people who think of themselves as goths, usualy tweeking it a bit more on their tastes and giving it a feel that of unmistakable goth touch. you may not accept this as aloud in your true pure goth pantheon, but it still doesnt make you arbiter of gothness. the fact is that there is a hell of a lot more goths in the croud of a craddle kf filth show than there is metalheads. one could even argue that no true obsessed fan of craddle of filth can ever claim to be metalhead. i would point out also that there are bands that are way fucking more metal than craddle and still be as goth as could be. dimu borgir for example. if 10inch spikes on leather full body suites, black and white facepaint, nightly winter walks deep in the woodlans doesnt feel goth as fuck, i dont know what does.
The larger a group and the longer it's been around, the more prone it is to fragmentation. This is a normal process but, it is, perhaps, a good idea to resist that fragmentation as long as possible for the purpose of keeping said group strong and relevant.
Sounds a lot like the evolution (?) of all the ridiculous "categories"/"genres" of metal. Never mind the many examples where a band easily spans a dozen pigeonholes, much less the songs that casually violate the imaginary boundaries. A very enjoyable video. 👍
I think Andrew Eldritch & Sisters of Mercy covering the Stooges’ 1969 is an indicator of long-term “been around, gonna stay around.” Bauhaus covering Bowie, too: takes fortitude to claim that song, and it’s not insignificant that they do it really exceptionally well…
I always took those lists as starting out as a description of some general categories of fashion design found among goths, which ultimately got so long that the compilers got punchy and made some funny conjectural categories that never showed up in reality. The whole idea that you have to pick one (one!) and that defines you forever really strikes me as absurd. EDIT: I'd never seen that specific list you found. Hilarious stuff.
I'm kind of a closeted goth. Grew up loving the music and outfits, but I was too young to pick out my own clothes and now as an adult I make my own clothes. Unfortunately I grew up learning about this list and how serious people were taking it. Since I was so young, I felt like I needed to follow it and I felt like I'm not goth enough. I'm glad it's bullshit.
I'm a Roach Goth, I scurry out of the darkness and nibble on scraps of food left out, then freeze in place when the lights go on so you won't see me.
😂🤣
😂 totally valid 😂Throughout the ages, we evolved, we survived, we outlasted and outsmarted humans' pesky poisons and traps. One day we will rise and claim our power!!! First, we just have to agree on a theme song- one goth anthem to rule them all🎶🪳🎶
lol, I do cook at night and sometimes when I am lucky, the little bats greet me flying around the house when I "wake" up in the late evening... sadly true. but also, very stupidly romantic. sad that they are so fast one can hardly see them, but I do... at least a bit of them. yeah I know I am bats. (found that phrase lately and love it to bits.) 😁☺🤭
Brilliant
I resemble this.
I think those terms are useful for describing different types of outfits, but not so much different types of people
Very true! They're useful for scoping out clothing but other than that, it's aesthetic not identity. Never let the clothes wear you.
Just the other day I was explaining to someone that this incessant need to put goth into this box regarding purely aesthetics does way more harm than good. In this fight to include everyone it becomes a form of isolation and competition on who's the darkest of them all!
Just listen to the music for crying out loud and have fun!
Exactly! When you put yourself inside a box, you're leaving a ton of people outside of it. It's not being unique it's creating isolation and division.
@@angelabenedict Very true Angela. We don't need to be hindered by Normies who think they can isolate us from the subculture and like minded people we can feel comfortable with.
Throwing a label based on music, is like picking your videogame character.
Just be you...
My 12year daughter is going through a lot trying to find herself. She loves the goth kids on south park.... I'm like it's not like that., But it's like that.
Just be yourself.
@@Biosynthnut Exactly you are correct, be yourself and choose the subculture you can associate with.
It becomes more about the fashion rather than the music too, as example I'm in my 30s and have whole my life seen goths (even if I remember emo being bigger when I was younger) and it took many years before I actually found out it's a music and not a fashion style, I thought it was like as example the Japanese fashion style Lolita where the fashion more becomes like a lifestyle, though I assumed that they probably listened to darker music like darker metal, rock or electronic music.
I made the mistake of trying to box myself into a goth subtype when I was younger. It got very boring very quickly. Some days I want to go more traditional, other days I feel more inspired by ethereal wave and renaissance gowns. Sometimes I don’t even want to look visibly goth at all. What matters is the music, above all else. It is the heart and soul of the subculture.
The only use I’ve gotten out of these sub-styles is when I’m online shopping lol. They’re helpful keywords, but that’s about it.
I'm glad you've found your way free of that. I didn't realize how much of a thing it was until I started my channel. I got to communicate with and hear from all of the new/younger goths and their views and experiences. Some of them gave me whiplash! Unfortunately with the over saturation of people with bigger platforms, if they decide they want an opinion on goth - their content buries ours and new goths will find theirs before they find ours. Luckily a ton are smarter than we really give them credit for because they tend to sense something amiss and find their way.
This is me too! I have days where the attire just changes based on my mood, overall I just genuinely like to wear black (I've been very darkly-inclined since late high school and am now getting more into goth the past few years). Totally agree, it all just comes down to the music, which I am also still exploring and I'm about tired of all these 'boxes'. And yes, they are helpful keywords online :P.
Ah, shit, here we go again :flashbacks of those artworks with the goth (stereo) types:
I feel like this is a part of the tiktok obsession with -cores and aesthetics that need to be more and more obscure. I expect to start seeing "Goth forest mushroom ivy hag-core" but also "Pastel latex barbie blonde bimbo goth". Some people want to _belong_ to a subculture, but _only_ if they also get to be super special and unique. You know, "not like other goths" :DD
"blonde bimbo gith' love it😄😄
i came across a tiktok -core thing the other day and it was the stupidest shite like muppetcore or something, like i understand wanting to be a part of something but how many unoriginal tacked on -core “aesthetics” need to be made. sometimes what you like doesn’t need to be labeled (or it’s so niche that just saying you like it is better than adding -core to it).
There is surround sound goth, headphone goth, basic speaker goth (poseurs), subwoofer goth
Careful, we don't wanna give anyone ideas. That's the last thing we need...Well, one of the last things. The world has a funny way of playing the 'Hold my beer' game.
Muppets?!
I'm a goth and that's all I am. I'm someone who loves the music and I'm also someone you'll mostly see in a black t-shirt and black sweatpants. I'm a goth who also likes metal and rave music. I'm phrasing it like that because goth is the subculture I personally align with because the music hits me on a soul level I can never quite put into words.
. rave is more about not putting it into words while goth music often has still stories to tell and I always hated it when people told me stories while singing, so I enjoyed the rave music more since it left me alone, but the goth music has the sad moment, the melancholy that is well appreciated so the stories aren't that crucial and unnerving that much... or something like that. it is well about the sound, the voices are more a plus or a nice give-away on top of it. it is how I see it. both has it's justification. edit: I forgot, then at the time there was also the industrial coming up which was a middle between rave and goth, I'd say, so some people did dwell inside that, cause it connected the two genres a bit... but sadly it vanished quite soon. it was just like a "blip", a very short one... I even forgot it existed but just came to my mind just now, like a flash, lol... it had the dark aesthetic of goth music but the slight craziness of the rave music as well, that is what I would describe industrial. ( I am not a music expert but music and sounds were always important to me. only heavy metal could never fetch me anywhere... too brutal. )
I feel like you just described me 😂
This!! This is me too! The only goth “subtype” I would consider myself would I guess be babybat since despite being nearly 30 I’m still relatively new to goth lol. But after finding the music a couple of ago I immediately knew that it was special and that’s why i call myself goth
There are only two things that qualify someone to be a goth, and one is non-negotiable.
The important one is listening to the music.
The lesser one is sacking Italy.
I first read that as 'snacking' Italy which I am all for. Caprese, anyone? Get in!
i'll bring the tomatoes! You sack the Italians!/j
@@angelabenedict I'm in more of a snacking mood (as opposed to a sacking mood), so I'll just have the bruschetta.
Being goth is what you make of it. Its up to interpretation. I dont dress goth anymore like i used to but still the music is what i still listen to.
dang it not the goths again! (I'm italian)
Aaaahhh, I remember that huge list from the late 90s! 😂. I find myself on instagram often reassuring baby bats that they can wear t shirts and cargo shorts with stompy boots and be goth. Goodness, those fetish models have the poor newbies thinking they can’t ever wear comfortable clothes.
I was a fetish model in the early 2000's rocking the latex. There was that weird period where the fashion and the subculture overlapped and there were combined events. As for the tees, cargo shorts and stompy boots - You just described many a goth from my area in the 90s.
@@angelabenedict i meant the IG “goths” who do it for the brand sponsorship ;)
Yep, pretty much every goth I spent time with in the 90s wore the tshirt + cargo shorts + stompy boots! Sometimes there were fishnets if it wasn’t super hot outside.
not me living in cargo pants, various tops and stompy boots when its not 100 fucking degrees outside XD
@@monicaprzestrzelski4677 I’d be doing the same if my knees didn’t need surgery! No pants for me for a while.
My style fluctuates so much, I can't imagine sticking to just one "subtype". Somedays I wake up and want to go all out trad, somedays I want to look deathrock, some days I want to look like a vampire. Some days I wake up wanting to imitate one of my goth or goth adjacent idols. The "goth types" are interesting to me, but if you see them as categories to they become so harmful and restrictive. I see them like a closet of various things that I can take inspiration from and channel into my look for the day. But the labels don't actually matter because goth is goth :)
Hey, does anyone else remember those facebook quizzes where they were supposed to help you discover what type of goth you were? Gosh, I can't believe I ever took them seriously. I remember teen me, who really enjoyed rock and metal and had only a little bit of tipped into goth music, feeling weird because they made me feel like a poser. Because I wasn't dressing like that since I was a minor and couldn't afford to buy my own clothes, plus the insecutiry of knowing that I wouldn't look good in "goth" outfits.
When I first discovered your channel quite a few years ago, and I heard you saying "goth is goth, doesn't matter how you dress, just enjoy the music, goth subgenres when it comes to fashion are BS" that was very liberating 💙
all of this reminds me of like when people see someone in all black and think “oh that’s a goth”, like no the clothing isn’t everything especially now with people in techwear/egirl/alternative styles that are also all black based. and heck sometimes goths just feel like wearing an oversized white shirt.
there’s this anime-style webcomic that ticks me off so so much because the main girl is dressed like an egirl/scene and her room is mcr/emo themed and yet the comic is called Goth Girl and the Jock, and it’s so easy to see that the creator really does not know shite about goth music or the culture behind it 🙄 but ooo people will click on it because of the title, especially after the “big tiddy goth gf” crazy (in the anime community it was so..so very bad, talk about people who feel “misunderstood” then promptly not giving af about learning other peoples’ interests)
Goth is supposed to be freeing and being alternative is all about embracing yourself. Not just copy and paste
Exactly! Don't let the clothing wear you.
I've recently taken the Andrew Eldritch approach and don't even bother calling myself goth anymore. So new goth type unlcoked: not-a-goth.
Yup.... I'm so goth I'm not actually goth lol. Still goth dad to my kids or goth-core to my friends, I just find it odd😂
@@boris1387"Goth core"? No. That's not a thing.
"The Andrew Eldrich approach," lol
@@Anonymous-wb3nz anything can be a 'thing'. Besides, I've just made it up for a bit of a laugh. Chill out and stop taking everything so serious.
There is this button > 'not even a real goth'... which I do like...
I don't mind the notion of goth subtypes as long as it is 100% understood by everyone in the conversation that it is descriptive, and not prescriptive. That is to say, it's ok to look at someone dressed in an accurate 19th century outfit and refer to them as a victorian goth, as long as you understand this doesn't raise any expectation of them. They wanna go cyber tomorrow, or listen to EBM or industrial bands, that is their prerogative, and it's nobody's business boxing them into a stereotype just because they saw them wearing a corset and lace once.
Edit: After seeing the list Angela ran through in the latter part of the video, i realized we may not be speaking about the same thing. That thing is definitely a joke, tongue-in-cheek, and meant as such. I was referring mostly to certan specific aesthetic/musical interest combos in the subculture, like victorian, steampunk, romantic, trad, aetherial, etc. It's useful to have words for these, to describe the many ways in which the folks within the subculture express themselves. It's not so useful to use these words to box them in to preconceived notions.
Agreed! Seeing the goth types from 95 reminded me of the old "Goth Code" some of us used at the bottom of forum posts online back then to tell others what we were specifically into
Well said Angela! Thans for addressing the whole goth "sub type" thing and what it really came from. That list was too funny. I can't tell you how many anoying af goth "sub type" hash tags I've seen🙄😒 I hope those people people see this video🖤
Glad you enjoyed it! It's so weird seeing people take that concept to heart and I'm thinking about the ophidagoth and coughgoth having a battle with wheezing and legless reptiles.
I tend to call myself a Deathrocker just to signal to people that I still have a foot in Punk culture.
Having said this, I agree with what you're saying here.
The number of misconceptions that people still have about Goth culture is pretty astounding!
I call myself MetalGoth because I listen to both Metal and Goth(among other styles) and it shows in my outfits and lifestyle.
I agree
@@starscreamthecruel8026. I miss Peter Steele 😢
@@miahconnell23 Agreed. Type O Negative were an awesome band
I gotta say, you're makeup is gorgeous. And thank you for pointing out that goth and metal are not the same thing. There is a tendancy for some people to lump goths and metalheads together, and it kinda drives me up the wall, because not all goths listen to metal and not all metalheads listen to goth music, and they don’t all look and dress the same either. - from a metalhead
*your
@@Anonymous-wb3nz yes, that's what I meant. Whoops 😂
Thank you! Not worries. It's a strange misconception considering how different the genres are. For contrast, can you imagine following up 'Lycia' with 'Cannibal Corpse'?
@angelabenedict I know, right? And you're welcome by the way 😁
You always articulate yourself so well. 100% agree with what you’re saying. Goth is a music based sub culture 1st. Also as a goth you’re allowed to listen to other generes, not just goth. Imagine just listening to 1 music genre your whole life? That would get absolutely boring. My music shuffle can go from the sisters of mercy to wutang clan real quick because I’m not boxed into 1 music genre. Same thing with aesthetics we don’t have to be boxed into 1 thing and just stay into it like how the younger crowd thinks we need to. My outfits are all over the place. The most important thing about goth is the music. If you listen to goth you’re goth. Everything else is just secondary and not mandatory.
Honestly from everything I gathered the people who live their lives mostly on the internet are the ones who convolute, debate, or try to change the subculture to their own fitting. But people who actually listen to the music, and just want to hang out in real life with people that like to jam out to some good goth tunes too know it’s all a bunch of nonsense.
100%
it took me actually attending goth artists' concerts to see that. the people i saw enjoying the whole thing the most, were people you wouldn't tell they're in the subculture based on how they look.
Honestly the difference between online and IRL is huge in almost all areas and topics. It's quiet interesting to check out if you ever try to compare
Wait people take this seriously? I always thought it was a way to find clothes you like…
So seriously. It's great to use on places like ebay or poshmark but they let the clothes wear them.
That’s what I thought too. Gosh I guess you learn something new everyday.
@@desireesmith862 initially I thought it was a joke when I was told people were taking it seriously. This is back when I first started my TH-cam channel. I had people commenting from both sides of the camp, one saying that they needed to choose their subtype and the other side feeling bullied and excluded because they didn't want to choose a subtype. That's when I started looking into it and saw that it blew up into this thing where a joke for many years ago, somehow got spun into truth.
Shout out to the message boards “Gothic Preservation Society” and “Necrotic Obsession”. Crucial for my baby bat days
Well spoken Angela. It is about the music. Goth fashion is a personal choice. When I chose to create a fashion choice that combines Corp Goth and LDS , I chose classical music and neo classical darkwave. I am still open to learning from other Goth subculture choices. Encouraged to keep with Goth subculture appreciation.
Thank you! I personally love seeing the styles that come out of peoples personalities. It's a reflection of the way the music makes them feel. It's like art.
@@angelabenedict I agree with you .❤️
When I went to goth nights 20-30 years ago, I honestly don't think people thought of labeling each other by look. It was all varied, but similar. If anything was labeled it was the sounds of various of bands - Goth rock, death rock, industrial, ebm etc. You could kind of tell by a persons look what bands they were more into, but it wasn't important. Not everyone enjoyed the same sound, but it was nice to mix it up in a similarly minded group. Of course, the passers-by often mentioned "Rocky Horror night again, eh?" which always drew a good laugh out of us.
Like Angela, I became involved in the goth subculture as a teen in the mid-90s ('95-'96) and still am to this day. This practice of labeling and placing people in strictly defined aesthetic boxes exists solely on social media and within some online communities, in my experience. It's funny, but also kind of sad to think that something that was intended as a lighthearted attempt by goths to poke fun at the scene, became so misconstrued. While social media/online communities are a vital tool to discuss and learn about new music, the best way to use them is for finding and interacting with your own local goth community through events/shows/meet-ups in your area. For baby bats nervous about interacting with other goths face to face, just remember as long as you have a love of the music and desire to learn you will be welcomed with open arms by your local goth community. You certainly don't have to conform to a cookie cutter aesthetic or spend a fortune on your wardrobe to belong. DIY has always been a beloved part of the subculture.
Like in advance. 🗽🇺🇸❤️ Angela not dead!
Con mucho respeto y gratitud.
Solo quería dejar comentarios y decir que esto funcionó . He tenido tanta lucha estos últimos tres años. ¡Gracias, Maestro Unicornio Negro! 💜
If you would have asked me in 1981 as a wee high school sophomore, if goth would still be around, let alone still be one 40+ years later, I would have emphatically said said yes! I’m so glad I was right. Also, its really fun to see the evolution 😊
It's one thing to have a preferred go to style (such as preffering elegant or punk-like styles), but to feel obligated to just one seems rather soul destroying.
As a goth since 1985 I love the idea of subtypes... I used to call myself a Visigoth! 🤪 We are Goth we are one individual and together. Non conformity is the norm.
Please post this video EVERYWHERE. It’s so interesting how much you see/hear the more “tame” names on this list get thrown around with sincerity. Great Video Angela!
Thank you so much, I'm glad you enjoyed it! Let's hope it makes the rounds appropriately.
This is why I like your theory about being Goth is to be into Goth Music. The fashion was kinda not as accessible to me being in a blue collar rural area who couldn’t always just wear all black (like having to wear high visibility orange for work) . I knew what defined me a goth was my love for Bauhaus, SOM and Souxsie.
as a baby bat, thank you!!! I had no idea! I wasn't really prescribing to one style o was just taking elements of my own style and goth creators and goth trends of the 80s and mashing them together into something I liked lmao. i just wear whatever i think looks cool, and am currently trying to diy some more pieces i can wear since i heard its very encouraged since this is how they used to do it and also i dont have money so this is much easier anyway
but since i cant go out to any goth clubs or anything irl to get away from the chronically online goths its really hard to find out whats true and whats just bullshit. i really appreciate people like you helping us baby bats out with navigating a subculture thats become so much bigger and more muddled than what it actually was. im just mostly trying to listen to elder goths and people like you who seem much more in line with what goth actually is
Knew it..knew u would pop up today
Pop!
I’m a “geribatric goth” I’m old AF and seen it all!! 🤣🦇
you'd never know it by looking at you! You're like fine wine.
The way you explained the power that music has for us at 6:48 is truly beautiful. So many times I wish I could tell how goth music makes me feel and the bond it has given me with my friends in the scene.
Two decades later, I still have these same feelings. It never goes away.
It's a bit like when punk first started in the late 70s. At first I recall it was a very creative movement where the uniform was what ever you felt like donning that day. T-shirt, jeans and converse. Sport jacket with sticky up hair. A cardigan with a safety pin. It was a be yourself music based movement. But then media got it, sanitized the safety pin as it were and happened to codify the look into leather jacket, jeans and maybe docs. Then, you couldn't really be punk unless you had the leather jacket. I'm afraid to say I never had the leather jacket. Oh well.
Always glad to see you again Angela.
Glad to see you too!
You are amazing. I love all the topics that you discuss.
Glad you like them!
Agree with you Angela. Those boxes kills creativity and own style. When I was younger I mixed things after what I loved (or if I could get the stuff or make it myself). I think I already been bored by looks, if I had to stay in one box.
Boxes stop the limit of being individual and creative. Only box I have is Goth (the music box including all types). But I still listen to other music too, depending on mood.
We used to joke also about those stereotypes when I was younger. And had our laughs about it. Nothing we didn't take serious at all.
I am like you, love to see the variety of all.
Stay safe gorgeous Angela 🦇🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🦇
Yes! When you put yourself inside a box, you're leaving so many other great things outside it and isolating yourself. DIY was great because it's customized from your very soul. What's better than that?
I consider myself goth adjacent, it’s hard to find Goth events here in Australia that don’t involve night clubs and even they are few and far between. I’ve always loved live music and music festivals in general. When I started seeing videos of the big festivals happening in Germany, I wanted in. In 2017 I took the plunge and purchased a ticket to WGT in Leipzig. I then booked my plane ticket and accomodation. A few days before I flew out, I went to Gallery Serpentine to get my outfit. When I finally arrived I felt like I had landed on another planet. Friday afternoon at my first Victorian Picnic and I was completely overwhelmed and on the verge of tears. I just could not believe the effort people put into their outfits and how surreal the whole experience felt. I have been to scores of trippy festivals and i considered myself a very experienced recreational drug user but this was different. There were no drugs in my system and no one around was high, but looking around, I felt like I had landed in a real Alice in Wonderland.
*shrug* catergorize me all you want, I'll be over here listening to the music and having fun.
I'm both a Goth and a Metalhead for almost 15 years... I love Goth Rock and Darkwave and Deathrock as well as Technical Death Metal, Progressive Metal and Black Metal.. I would say I'm a mixture of a happy Goth I mainly wear dark colors but sometimes I wear medium colors. I have blue, green and silver hair... I have lots of spiked hand cuffs on my wrists and different color nails from black and purple to light blue and golden.. I work 2 jobs one I can dress the way that I want, but the other is a collard polo grey shirt and jeans... I change before I leave that job lol.. I like Pastel Goth, Trad Goth, and Cybergoth which i mix into my aesthetic here and there.
When I was younger I would tell people that I was a vampire 🧛🏻♂️ goth because I would wear big white frilled shirts and trench coats. As I got older I started experimenting with different styles but I would always tell people that I was a romantic trad vampire goth because I liked the way it sounded and not because I literally thought that I was a vampire or that I had to dress that way to be goth I always treated it with a huge pinch i on f salt 😅. My love of the Sisters of Mercy, the Fields of the Nephilim , the cult , the cure, Siouxie and the banshees, alien sex fiend and the Damned was the underlining ties that conceded me to the subculture even when I wasn’t dressing Goth.
I am so vexxed here. Make up adds so much angular depth and nuance. So beautiful!
I’ve loved the gothic style before I started listening to goth music. I found bands I absolutely love! I keep finding more. I live the fact more people are saying “you don’t need to dress gothic to be goth.” I actually found a goth club in my city that I can’t wait to go to!
It would be so exhausting for me to choose one goth style. I have been part of the scene since the end of the 90s and I have been a glam and 90s rock fan long before that. I love the whole long dress and corset style as well as ripped jeans and oversized shirts. it depends on my mood that day
I feel like a fraud. I'm not goth. But here I am, nodding along learning about it acting like I knew this the whole time 😂😂
From what I've gathered:
Goth is goth is goth is goth. What's goth? A subculture based around goth music.
You got it in one! That's why I'm always so confused when people try to turn it into a scientific formula. It's really not a complicated thing.
You know I sent you a message on TikTok partially about this. I’m glad you made this video!
Been watching you alot lately and really glad youtube put you in my reccs. I'll admit I love metal as much as goth. It's an even split for me. Kinda thought of myself as a metal goth since this old book I had by Raven Digitalis that I got when I was young had a whole section of these subtypes and I did think they were legit for awhile. One good thing though was each one had a list of bands and it was my early exposure to real goth music - Christian Death, Inkubus Sukkubus, Sopor Aeternus, etc. But yeah I understand now those subtypes aren't for real, just fashion inspiration at best. Also I love that your vids have been showing me songs I never heard before. The Ghost of Me has been on repeat for me for the last couple days now :D
Glad to see you 😄🖤
Glad to see you too!
It confused me at first too..
even though Goth is Goth..
I remember scrolling down Facebook and people said "I thought Goth were Goth, but now I know now there is more subgenres in the Goth Culture"
No it's not, Goth is listening to the Gothic Music, that's all.
When there's enough of it out there it's hard not to take things seriously, especially when you're knew and impressionable.
no, thats not right either. some where their for the aesthietic, some looking to push boundries. some to experiment. what united us wasn't just music, it was a level of acceptance and inclusion, and peace, you couldnt get anywhere else.
@@sorejack Idk what to say then anymore
@@LadyFrostsUniverse nah, dont worry. it all grew hand in hand. it all fed into each other. i really miss the days when people could just show up, and they where your brother and sister. i remember when i first started going to goth clubs in detroit. i was a real wall flower, but no one bothered me, so i kept coming. it was like three months until i talked to someone. turned out, alot of people larped masquerade. by standing to the side with my arms crossed, apparently i was signaling that i was invisible😄 it was embarrassing, but everyone, larper or not repected it. somewhere along the way we let ourselves be divided. doesnt have to be forever though.
I used to travel to Detroit from Chicago to go to city club😁
over all it has roots in Punk i tend to like Death Rock Post punk & etheral the most good video angela as always
Absolutely! We'll never forget where we came from. It's crazy to see the evolution. Born of punk to modern day ethereal. It's crazy to see but it fits so well!
@@angelabenedict well said
I saw it for the first time a few years back I thought it was very odd seeing most openly wanting to pigeon whole themselves and getting flustered they didn’t fit solely in one style. Few including myself educated on the matter of course were called elitist and gatekeepers 🤣. Could you imagine if the normy keyboard warriors met an actual aul hardass around in the 80s now in their 60s. They’d curl up in a ball of mush at the interrogation questioning on their knowledge while trying to act all knowing like Jeebus 🤣.
Edit: I will be referring baby bats as goth sprouts now 😩🥺 that was the cutest 🌱🥺.
*hole
I think it was in the late 90's or early nillies that they came up with all those sub-types you could search out which one you belonged, a bit like how people now try to figure out what kind of dog they are, after answering 20 questions... It left me puzzled because I belonged to none... Got a hang for the Trad Goth-music, I liked Christian Death, Virgin Prunes and esp. Fields of the Nephilim... but also Current 93, PTV & Coil... 23 Skidoo, Nurse With Wound, ... but also Glam Rock and 70's Prog Rock (esp. King Crimson)... And it all bleeded into my clothes (DIY bandshirts, flared jeans, long Bolan hair, bracelets, DIY necklaces, ...)... Seriously toned down at the age of 49, but proud wearer of a 'not even a real goth' button, because it is alright to fit in not looking the part...
I would consider myself a minimalist goth ever since the 90s. I remember reading that long goth types list in the early 2000s. I am def no. 167 - DM for life!
I understand completely! I listen to such a variety of music, I can go from Nick Cave to Taylor Swift lmao. Love me my haunting, dark and poetic novels but I love lighthearted warm clean ones too. I can rock a pretty black outfit but I’ve got pets and don’t have the pleasure of doing so that often, in fact I love pink! I like a simple makeup look simply because I don’t like spending a lot of time doing so. You don’t have to “look” the part all the time to be it. Like you said in my own words, it comes down to the music first and foremost
Was literally caught off guard this past weekend when I got drug to the Goth club with literally nothing to wear. I was out of town visiting my girlfriend when one of our mutual friends asked us to come to club to see Dead Cool play. I've been listening to them for 2 years now and really did want to see them. So.... the only garb in my bag was a pair of black converse, a pair of blue jeans and a black v-neck t short. Not very goth lol. But I went and still got the open arms and hugs you would expect at the club. I even got into an hour conversation with both members of Dead Cool. We talked about synths, and their exposure on Yami and Communion After Dark. As per usual.... I had a blast!!!! Did I miss my Propaganda, TKK or Skinny Puppy shirts? My chunky Demonia boots? My strappy pants? Not as much as I thought I would have. I will however make sure that I'm completely prepared for future last minute plans 🖤
I'm glad you did this video to help baby bats, and other people who may have self esteem issues. The list you showed is insane and no one could fit into these without going completely insane. The sad fact that so many people have lost their sense of self, and not been able to do what they want because of this list and others; because of gate keepers/elitists, is just wrong. Helping people who are new or as I said, have self esteem issues is so important. Being young and impressionable makes it hard to know what to feel for many people. In the end, if a person can learn to love themselves the way they are, and have freedom of expression, it will be so much better for them. Individuality is what makes the world interesting and fun; without it, and being stuck in a mold is so boring. If you haven't already done it, and are interested in doing so; maybe you could next tackle helping baby bats with the differences between Goth music and other types of music. I think many people don't really understand the differences. Just a thought. Take care Sweetie
I was a young kid I just into the 50s and 60 music sand I got into music like the B-52's Echo & the Bunnymen and the one and only David Bowie I start listen to his stuff and I love a lot of industrial stuff now 67 years old and I still listen to my music New Wave Punk goth industrial but real live at nowhere to go and dress up in here. This music I order a tons of gotham music New Wave Punk I celebrate at home don't wear any makeup you too and I love it who not lived in Miami I did cuz he went to all the clubs and all the concerts I consider myself Gothic Industrial but I does a lot of bands that I love glitter Rock dance to
Im A gothhead (goth metalhead) and it sucks cause it feels like to meet people that are also this is if you are dressed in a substyle and i cant do that
Gothhead! I love that term! You prefer to dress differently than the usual goth or metal aesthetic?
@@angelabenedict i currently dont dress like any subculture due to life atm and when i have free time to diy i just feel to depressed to actually do it
I'm a traditional Goth, I absolutely love the 80"s Batcave days and bands like Sisters of Mercy, Bahaus, and Siouxsie and the Banshees. But I'll also listen to Switchblade symphony, London after midnight, and The Bolshoi.
Goth is all about the music, not about what someone wears 🖤🖤🖤👻👻👻🦇🦇🦇😁😁😁😁🎃🎃☠️☠️
Angel fire! I haven't thought about that in a long time! The early Internet was a strange place!!
Very good video and important to know if you're fan of goth music you can call yourself goth even if you don't dress like it. I listen to guite a lot goth and industrial music (at the moment at least) but I wouldnt personally call myself a goth (maybe in the future who knows though the fashion style is really not me I'm more into flower dresses and colour rather than black) because I don't feel I have a favourite music style that I mostly listen to, I have never dressed as a goth or been part of the subculture either, it probably mainly has to do with that I don't know any goths so I just don't feel like part of the subculture even if I have started to explore the music.
that list made me silent laugh 😂.
honestly the older i get, the less inclined i am to even use the label, because i pretty much *never* hear it in reference to music.
it means *one* thing, and yet, it *feels* like it means a plethora of things. i’m not over the music, but i’m SO over the “label” as it currently stands.
however, i think “Existential Goth” is the most hilariously fitting title for me personally. 😂
This reminds me a bit of the vaporwave scene and how it's facing something of a similar problem. Though the oddly honest irony of that particular resulting joke would be something the community appreciates lmao, I know I certainly do.
There's a metaphor I've cooked up to help explain more or less how it all works, and I feel it functions for any genre and/or subculture, especially those that find its roots in music.
The Fruit Metaphor, if you will.
So you have your berries, your citrus, the tropical, the familiar, the exotic, fruit pretending to be veggies (tomatoes and cucumbers i'm looking at you) etc. ad infinitum. You can try to break up the fruit into all these smaller and increasingly ridiculous categories, but at the end of the day these kinds of labels don't really matter, it's all just fruit, and it's all equally delightful.
Pleased to hear you mention the overlooked traffic-cone goth subgenre. :)
They're out there and they need our support.
Thank you for this video! I've been trying to get this type of info for years
Thank you for this video🖤🥀
You’re welcome 😊
How i got in to goth was some magazines or fanzine in 90s some ill get in Mexico im Mexican/American and remember and article about the types of goth that were around the time like vampire deathrock and cyber etc but subtypes nowadays are mind blogglin goth 4 life 🦇🦇
Nice to see that there is also another Mexican goth 🖤🇲🇽
Thank you
I’ve been Goth since 1981 or so. I’m clad in black daily yet no make up. I don’t believe we need specialized categories. Just enjoy the beauty of it.
I hope they don't invent anything else 😅 because I thought it would reach 200 😬 Changing the subject... you're almost reaching 90K 🥰🖤💜🦇 Let's hope for 100k 🥳😌😽👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻🤜🏻🤛🏻
I’m a Screamsneezergoth. Garlic bread goth. An occasional joint pain goth.
But really, it’s getting ridiculous.
I still find it fun calling myself “AntiqueMallGoth” though. 😂
Lmao
Godzillagoth. I can identify with that. 🤣
I love this ! Thank you !
this is why i tell people i just dress alternative since that is such a broad blanket term that has everything that isn't considered the "normal" fashion trends
ahh convergence 13 was fun one for road crew stories.. remember when youtube had all the next day omg videos of bill onstage doing social deception as a last minute yep ... and we know where skuppy' will have final home show good chance of coinciding with a birthday visit home but alas luvafair is gone
This made my left eyebrow twitch and I got a good laugh. I once had someone observe that I don't always dress in the same dark aesthetic and they thought that goths were suppose to dress only in one dark aesthetic. I got into an hour long educational rant about how goths can dress however they want, it's about the music. You also don't need to ONLY listen to goth music. In their mind goth was when they saw me wearing a corset, skirt and knee high platform boots, NOT the me working in the lab in a trench coat, black t-shirt and black leggings with combat boots. They basically missed the whole point about it being a music based subculture and that the music can influence how we choose to dress. Not the other way around. I've known goths who dressed "cottage core" or in all pastels. Point is, they love goth music. You do you boo boo and proudly blast some good goth tunes on Spotify as you drive through downtown traffic jams. ;)
I've never been the type to wear makeup or anything. I just wear black everything and leather jackets and combat boots. I've been into the scene since the late 80s. But I love the people who dress to the nines. I love this community. It's always been about accepting everyone and anyone. We're all freaks in our own special way.
Thanks for doing this again - always helpful and always needed!!!
You're very welcome! With all the unrelated garbage burying the legitimate stuff it's always good to try and combat it with more info.
3:00 Yea, I remember that. I think I have that meme somewhere. I saw that and it was right, at least how I dress. CASUAL GOTH. AKA: black docs, black jeans, black shirts: concert or club nylon black. Yeah til this day that's how I tend to dress to the club or hang out at home or out in about. The only time I would get into a goth custom was in Halloween. Other than that, I don't have that look of what supposed look like a goth...Then the pagans started to get their influence around mid 2000s, like 2004-02006, Mid-2000s, all of a sudden, then there after the, the Pentagrams Wiccan, satanist infiltrated goth club land from Black Metal. Prior to that, Celtic/roman/German crosses where the accessories with your gothic/or Victorian dress. You can see these goths in some videos in youtube wearing them. I'm just a GenX born in 1972, goth that started in the scene, through Depeche mode, back in 1989/Violator album. Great time to be 19 years old when Kurt Cobain brought ALL Alternative music to the masses! Prior I was into thrash/Metal rock. Going to a alternative dance venue changed my trajectory. And hear I am typing this.
7:45 One last thing... It's about our MUSIC... style, is part of it. Many think Goth is only term to those in the post punk look era. it's NOT. I grew up in the 1990s with the WAXTRAX Industrial/EBM/Synthpop/Coldwave/ NewWave Era. We don't have spiky hair. We're called Rivetheads. Actually they are two camps, the Death rock Goths and the Rivet-heads. Today I guess you can still add the Agrotechers... but that's a dying breed. I never did like that phase back in 2005 to 2009. Something happen in 2010s, nothing really accrued in the scene. Then around 2019 the scene came back, and here we are today in the Summer of 2023.
9:40 YES. The Black metal heads stole our Gothic look. Especially, their women!!! They are not GOTH. It's METAL rock.
The queen of video titles. Love the creativity. Gets me intrigued every time
I like to keep em short and sweet now. I used to go all poetic album title. I'm over it lol
This was actually really informative. I don’t consider myself a baby bat anymore because I have been listening and further diving into the music and culture for almost 5 years now but there is still a lot to learn and more bands to find. However lately, I have been trying to figure out in what subculture I am in. Am I a vampire goth or a romantic goth? The feelings this has brought up is very similar feelings when I was trying to figure out my sexuality and find the specific label. But you do not need a label. You can just be you and do your own thing.
Love this!!!
I do use sub types but most to find specific pieces and describe what music I'm listening to or vibe I am feeling at the time. I feel like if you are trying to be specific it's useful.
This is great. thank you 🖤
i think the subgenres are absolutely ridiculous. everyones so divided. im glad i dont live in that bubble in my head lol
Anti-Gatekeeping queen for FOREVER. We love ya for it.
Edit, does anyone remember Stripey Tights and Dark Delightz (I think the z was there instead of an s, it's been like...13-15 years since I went to the site!)
I’ve gotten so fed up with all the goth types nonsense lately; it was definitely a thing to “pick a type” when I was a babybat but at the time people didn’t take it quite so seriously. Now I see people absolutely insisting that you *have* to pick a type, or arguing over whether or not somebody is a “vampire goth” or a “trad goth”. I’ve even had a couple people ask me - in real life! - what kind of goth I am. I don’t know how to answer that because I didn’t “pick a type”, I just wear things that I like. And what kind of a question is that to begin with? I know they don’t mean anything rude by it, but as somebody who got involved before micro-aesthetics became a huge thing it makes me feel so old and confused - and I’m not even old
I’m tempted to just tell people I’m not a goth at all when they ask; I don’t much care about labeling myself anyways unless we’re talking about music, and I’d be lying if said I didn’t find the idea of giving someone a deadpan “no” while I’m all decked out a little bit funny. Anymore I just start talking about music and those who know, know.
In my hometown the biggest goth store had a motto on all their t-shirts that said " la conformité est la mort de l'âme" witch means conformity is death of the soul. I always found it funny to go to huge goth events like when cradle of filth came to town, and all the goths that were used to be the only outcasts in their suburb or their own little town, with maybe 2 or 3 friends, ALL flocked together, and they all looked exactly the same, or closely. I decided then to try once, to go to the craddle show dressed like I used to when I went to underground raves, so nylon pants so wide they hid my feet, plastic chocker chains, so tight it could rip appart sleeveless t-shirt, all in whiter than white.,I think I even had reflective stripes down the side of my pants. I bet not many non comformists always used to stand out and be stared at ever experienced as much as I did that night, what it truly means to stand out, and stared at. Literally the one and only person in the venue wearing all white in a sea of black velvet, leather and fishnets. Fun night. 10/10 would recommend if you feel confident enough😂
Cradle of Filth is not a Goth band, poser! They are Metal.
Cradle of Filth are metal, not Goth..You don't know what Goth music sounds like?
lol apparently not. i do not believe i have ever heard "goth music" as a term for describing a specific and self contained musical genre. i doubt that it is a thing, or it would mean that there is a complete and unique whole musical genre that i have somehow never heard a song of, never heard any one refer to and am still completely unaware of. it so, i cant wait to discover a new sound, so please enlighten me.
on a more realistic note, goth is more an aesthetic, a style, and an exgremely wide variety of mediums are appreciated by people who think of themselves as goths, usualy tweeking it a bit more on their tastes and giving it a feel that of unmistakable goth touch. you may not accept this as aloud in your true pure goth pantheon, but it still doesnt make you arbiter of gothness. the fact is that there is a hell of a lot more goths in the croud of a craddle kf filth show than there is metalheads. one could even argue that no true obsessed fan of craddle of filth can ever claim to be metalhead. i would point out also that there are bands that are way fucking more metal than craddle and still be as goth as could be. dimu borgir for example. if 10inch spikes on leather full body suites, black and white facepaint, nightly winter walks deep in the woodlans doesnt feel goth as fuck, i dont know what does.
The larger a group and the longer it's been around, the more prone it is to fragmentation. This is a normal process but, it is, perhaps, a good idea to resist that fragmentation as long as possible for the purpose of keeping said group strong and relevant.
Late nineties Connecticut goth, I only knew two types: goth, and rivet. That's it.
Sounds a lot like the evolution (?) of all the ridiculous "categories"/"genres" of metal. Never mind the many examples where a band easily spans a dozen pigeonholes, much less the songs that casually violate the imaginary boundaries. A very enjoyable video. 👍
I think Andrew Eldritch & Sisters of Mercy covering the Stooges’ 1969 is an indicator of long-term “been around, gonna stay around.” Bauhaus covering Bowie, too: takes fortitude to claim that song, and it’s not insignificant that they do it really exceptionally well…
Amen ❤
I always took those lists as starting out as a description of some general categories of fashion design found among goths, which ultimately got so long that the compilers got punchy and made some funny conjectural categories that never showed up in reality. The whole idea that you have to pick one (one!) and that defines you forever really strikes me as absurd.
EDIT: I'd never seen that specific list you found. Hilarious stuff.
I don't think the originals would have believed a lot of things happening had you told them in 83.
I don't know where I'd start!
If I knew today how much I could sell my old Limelight shirt for.....why did I let that shirt go? 1993 was a good year.
Vampire freaks was a weird place back in the mid 2000s
I'm kind of a closeted goth. Grew up loving the music and outfits, but I was too young to pick out my own clothes and now as an adult I make my own clothes. Unfortunately I grew up learning about this list and how serious people were taking it. Since I was so young, I felt like I needed to follow it and I felt like I'm not goth enough. I'm glad it's bullshit.