I'm a metalhead who enjoys the gothic aesthetic. I do not call myself goth as I don't listen to goth music specially. There is a difference and I agree with you. Love your videos!
Before people started calling it "goth rap", and making the lyrics about drugs and women and whatever else... there was a genre called horrorcore. In horrorcore, you could rap about darker themes like ghosts, suicide, and other elements like that. I will admit to listening to rap because I've been around enough people through the years, since I was in my 20's, that liked rap. I did listen to some horrorcore rap to help offset the fact I had to have rap on around them. One group was Gravediggaz. Why is it now acceptable that anything dark is suddenly goth? It wasn't that way to begin with, and really doesn't help other alternative genres. This journalist didn't take the time to really research what they were talking about it would seem. By the way I did hear one person that claimed to be "goth rap" back in the day, and that was Mizfit Da Menace. But he rapped about horror movie things. Anyways, good video as always
@@dryisshy you're welcome, and I fully agree with you. I think these days people are too obsessed with anything dark being "goth" suddenly. AFI have been called goth for an example
Alice Cooper did spooky and dark stuff but neither rap or goth. Just rock n roll. A lot of genres of rock I just call rock. Keeps it simple. Rap is rap even if it's not a complete clone of other new rap.
Besides there is industrial hip-hop (should have been called rap) with heavy, obscure themes in similar tone to horrorcore. Many years ago there was rapcore which influenced guitar music greatly. It's suits industrial more although I don't see problem with goth bands using harsher vocals in term of rap singing. Atonal voice can combine many things. There is a lot of experimental rap but I see where problem is.
Lyrics of goth music: *eloquent, melancholy, beautiful, pure poetry* Lyrics of "goth rappers": *slur, slur, slur, uwu, drugs, violence, slur, misogyny, slur, chains, guns, slur* The fact that there are people that genuinely can't tell the difference frightens me.
More like: mumble, bitch, hoe, I get high, I wanna die, bitch, hoe, thot, mumble some more, find other ways to poorly portray black people because I couldn’t make money in the rock/metal scene
This is why Goth Rap cant really be a thing. You could, conceivably, have goth lyrics with rap vocals - Gangsters Paradise comes pretty close in its mood - but raps focus on self promotion and dissing everyone else is completely the opposite of typical goth.
@@Anonymous-wb3nz goth music is far too broad a category to be "a SOUND" . There are multiple genres and bands as difetent to each other as Nephilim, Sopor Aeturnus, All About Eve, Alien Sex Fiend, Die Form. What do you suppose brings them together under one broad category?
Goth song about drugs : Sisters of Mercy - Amphetamine Logic. But it is tonally different and does not glorify drugs, it laments them. Plus on the Tik Tok meme front we had that well and truly covered already with so many featuring Sudno by Molchat Doma for at least a couple of years. Goth does not hold the patent on dark themes and aesthetics. Rapping about them doesn't make rap goth by default. Music genres don't work like that.
totally agree. and there’s been so many real goth (or goth-adjacent, at the very least) songs trending on tiktok. this journalist could’ve used anything else if they just did their research
Who wrote this article? Korn? Marilyn Manson? Corpse who has literally stated multiple times that he is not goth and the music he makes is not goth is all of a sudden goth now? It seems like this person literally saw 'spooky' and alternative music and just labeled it goth. And let's be honest I don't even think the vast majority of the rap and hip hop community claim that 'goth' rap nonsense.
Most of them don’t, but Lil Peep was a fan of The Cure and Joy Division. Ghostemane also stated that he enjoys Christian Death, Sisters Of Mercy, Cocteau Twins, The Cure, etc.
Quoting the author of this article: "I don't like walking on the beach, but I love playing the guitar and geeking out about music." I think he should geek out about goth a bit more before writing an expert article on it, hmm...
Exactly this! I was actually there to live through the early 2000's, and listened to both Korn and actual 80's goth music over the course of my life (gotta love Depeche Mode and Sisters of Mercy; both absolute legends, but some more modern bands modernizing old goth music like Long Night are definitely good as well). So I'd personally say that the two genres are VASTLY different. Like, for pete's sake, the whole-ass melody between the two doesn't even remotely sound alike!
You contrasting the lyrics of “goth rap” with actual goth music tells you all you need to know about how vastly different goth music is from this rubbish trying to push itself into our subculture. This video was brilliant, and making it was a great idea.
@@a.i.contacttracer305 not liking rap TRASH does not make one a racist, troll. P.S. there are many people of color that are Goths. Real, actual Goths who like real Goth music. Grow up.
@@nightchild4468 all the “musicians” she mentions are white also…. You’re right there are many poc in the scene especially in NYC where she is kinda from.
Story time. In 2008-2010, I was a young girl in my 20s living in San Francisco. As a Goth, I was attacked and beat up numerous times by random rap fans. I was called Vampire Bitch, Goth Freak, etc. Why the hell are the very people who used to torment us now trying to push their way into OUR world?! You are NOT welcome.
That’s horrible. I’m sorry that happened to you. It reminds me of the whole “black women and box braids are ghetto and twerking is disgusting!” Now those exact same people are speaking Ebonics, wearing the hairstyles and twerking poorly.
I’ve been sexually harassed by rap fans who called me “RaCiSt fOr bEiNg gOtH” because I was allegedly “trying to be white” for deviating from racist stereotypes as a biracial person and they wanted to rape me (one of them even implicitly called me the N-word which really pissed me off when I finally realized, and he called me “racist” for ALLEGEDLY “hating rap music”) and they sexualized every “alternative” thing about me (such as my side-shave) to make me feel like a dirty whore just for being alternative as a PoC
Actual goth music is poetic and magical especially with its lyrics and unique musical styles. This "goth rap" is just a bit like how violent and controversial can we make the lyrics? Then put those same lyrics to a cliche generic rap tune. Stop appropriating our subculture for your profitication.
these kind of comments sound like they're from people without much knowledge/interest in hip hop. i understand people who lean more towards goth would likely pick out the worst examples, but hip hop can be and is all of those things you described goth as too.
@@JNoMooreNumbers That's true---"Rapper's Delight" by the Sugarhill Gang has some pretty funny parts in it. I miss rap music like this. This was when rap was good. Now it's crap. (Jan Griffiths).
@@douglasgriffiths3534 You talk too much by Run DMC, Big Butts by MC Hammer. Even Blondie's Man from Mars was rapping but more musical was her style. 80s was the fun music like B52s and Talking Heads.
@@SiriPsychopomp NO. First off, I don't give a quasi-fart about Eminem, and please don't assume you aren't talking to someone who *actually* grew up in the era being discussed. Rap came out of hip-hop in the 70s. They would have block parties in NY where the MC - Master of Ceremonies - would RAP over records being spun and "scratched" by DJs - Disc Jockeys. For BLOCK PARTIES. The earliest "rebellious" group was probably NWA, though by then (80s), a lot of rap was going towards the violent, misogynistic side, aka "gangsta rap".
Good Gravy. Read this article and Dude can't write at all. Marilyn Manson? Korn? Neither of those are Goth bands. Clearly dude did NONE of the research I did when I was writing the Spinsterella Books. If he did his research he'd have talked about how Goth is a music based subculture started in the UK in the late 70s out of Punk rock. Goth bands are Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, Joy Division and Siouxisie and the Banshees. Goth has been around for over 40 years. it's not a new thing. Goth music doesn't promote drug use. AT ALL. Listened to lots of Goth music over the last 30 years and most of it is peaceful. Some of it is poetic. A lot of it is thought provoking. Goths are NOT violent. In 40 years of Goth events and there have been ZERO incidents of violence. And that's all over the world. Most Goths I've talked to are usually the shy kid who who collects comics and Manga, watches Horror movies, Anime, Sci-fi, and superhero movies and ain't looking for trouble. In most cases Goth kids are the ones who get bullied and harassed by Norms. What this crap calling itself an article is doing is promoting stereotypes about the Goth Scene and Goth Music that aren't true. What they're calling Goth Rap is Bad Rap music trying to put a label on itself to sell. I don't know how dude got this garbage past an editor. Because all the points in his article can easily be refuted by doing basic research. It's a shame that an indie writer like myself does a better job of research on Goth than a writer who is allegedly supposed to be a journalist.
This is an important video. I'm not a super avid internet user but all of the misinformation and genre label hijacked stuff seems to get pushed to the top where the mainstream is concerned. It's not that shocking to me they compared to 90s nu metal since that's the same stuff we got taken for back then.
Thank you for speaking out about it , I completely agree in addition to people my age swearing up and down Lil Peep , Lil Tracy , Corpse , Ext are goth but when you ask them about an actual goth rock band they became confused
Exactly! That's the same thing that I've encountered. People will see my look and ask me about the names you've mentioned and when I counter with ACTUAL goth bands they don't only become confused, some will flat out call you a fake goth or gatekeeper.
@@angelabenedict Likewise , The people my age are clearly brainwashed to think that because it's popular in the underground scene of rap , and they just pretty much bite off the style just to call themselves different , not trying to sound like a neckbeard
I think it’s cool that people try and experiment with different sounds, and get creative with mixing genres as inspiration. BUT, don’t take something that is established, and try to say it’s the same, because it’s not and it never will be. Goth is an established subculture and music genre and no one will change that ever. Just make a new label for your music y’all.
I feel like they are clearly trying to, specially with terms like egirl/boy rising to prominence, but some people are really stuck up about not calling THAT a new subculture kids end up seeking established subcultures for validation when it’s just not them. I feel like people are more preoccupied with boxes and them being seen as “good” or “bad” more than ever.
Damn its refreshing to hear this. Even in Facebook groups that from the name you would suppose would have the same opinion as you, there are always those ready to shriek 'gatekeeper' if you even hint at the fact that Goth is a defined subculture based around a defined set of music genres (Goth Rock, Darkwave, Deathrock etc), it is not some amorphous blob that can essentially fit any definition that you wish. The worst is when you get the whole 'Yes, but the Goth scene has evolved since the eighties so move on blah blah...' YES!!! No shit it has evolved! Lebanon Hanover, She Past away, Molchat Doma, Drab Majesty, Ash Code, Boy Harsher etc etc etc Have you even heard of these bands? Did you even know you can still actually go to Goth clubs, gigs and festivals, you know, the place where the ACTUAL Goth 'scene' is where you can listen to all the contemporary Goth bands that are still putting out amazing music? Nope! Go back to jerking off online over 'Goth Thots' doing Agehao faces then! Rant over!
I heard good things from Lebanon Hanover, Molchat Doma and Boy Harsher. I like how they’re keeping the goth flag flying, but even switched on normies can like them too. As far as gatekeepers go, you need them for quality control and making sure you’re not infiltrated by Britain’s tabloid journalists ,police, intelligence agencies, the British National Party or the SWP.
In defense of corpse, he never, to my knowledge, claimed to be goth or that his music is either. Alternative rap would be accurate, but it doesn't get the clicks this writer wanted I guess 🤷♀️🤦♀️
I've slept on this video and thought a lot more about the fetishization of goth women aspect of this type of rap that was pointed out and I think what I heard a few years ago in terms of referencing what they were referring to as "goth girls" at that time as a catch-all for any emo girl who wore black that they feared would reject their love wasn't as negatively entrenched and malignant and from the lyrics you read it sounds like it's now much less an unfortunate fashion descriptor and it has festered and exploded into something way more sinister and very dangerous for the women of the goth community (an open invitation to abuse all goth women because of shitty and completely wrong stereotypes). If this is the case, then nope nope NOPE, the goth community absolutely needs to be in their faces to tell them to GFTO. We have enough problems with oftentimes physically violent backlash because of dishonest stereotypes and misogyny from everywhere else, including at times from within our own community. The more I think about that article and the damage its existence is doing to legitimize rap language depicting violence towards goth women because of the twisted stereotype/fetish that we look the way we do because we're asking for it, the more angry I'm getting. Thank you for making this video, it is a very much needed public service announcement that hopefully a number of these cloud rap kids will run across at some point and hopefully learn from.
@@cranberrijuicc same, I hate it how many hyper political activists have used being Goth as their weapons and mistreat it as such. Subcultures should always be apolitical.
Plenty of gates, not a whole lotta fence in my opinion. New subcultures form, tastes evolve, and people find new ways of expressing themselves. And I'm watching my fellow oldschoolers tsk tsk at kids now and it just reminds me of how we felt back at that age...everything we did was overanalyzed and dissected by people who wanted to put us down...weird how it keeps happening.
what sucks is there are some really great goth bands/ solo acts out right now. The scene is so alive and vibrant, yet not very big compared to other genres. Yet these rappers, who by rap standards are trash, get so much more recognition.
I hate how the really bad stuff is publicised and the really good stuff is kept away from the eyes and ears of the great British public. When you show the great British public, they don't want to learn more about it.
There have always been bad trends that have attempted to attach themselves to the term.... trip hop, goth metal, nu metal, cyber-goth, hipsters, hipsterwave... and now this goth-rap... **sigh**, it's been a long time and some damage is done with each wave of nonsense since some industry people allow it... of course, there also has been some damage through chipping away at the legacy of Goth through other means, as with the revival of Death Rock (now called deathrock which some separatists have tried to put apart from goth while also claiming many bands), and the twisted marketing use of the multi-purpose and oxymoronic term Post Punk (so much can be written on it alone).
@Spookycide Me too. I love Evanescence to this day. 🖤 I know that many Goths really hate bands like Evanescence because they were falsely called Goth and also promoted as a Goth band in the mainstream. I'm grateful for them because otherwise I wouldn't have developed an interest in dark rock/metal music that eventually led me to the Goth scene.
Evanescence was my very first concert! I went as a minor with a friend and her “cool parents” who brought us teen goth kiddos up to the front (bar area) where I was within like 20 ft of Amy Lee circa 2002. Best first concert ever.
I never felt evanescence was goth (and I was a young teenager when they got big) and I literally hid my love for them like a dirty secret for years. Now? Everyone is showing their cards lo!! 😂
Can someone please tell me what is the proper classification for Evanescance at least from the goth perspective? Is it a specific type of rock band? I've never known what to make of them (though I'm fond of some of their tunes). Thanks.
Bauhaus's first single release was actually "Bela Lugosi's Dead" on 6 August 1979, 42 years ago (as of August 2021). Their debut album, "In the Flat Field" was released in November 1980. I remember buying it. I'm not nitpicking you on dates, I'm supporting your premise that Goth has been around longer than the guy who wrote the article has probably been alive, 42 years ago!
Wish I could hit the like button a million times, you made so many valid points supporting your thoughts toward the writer, in not a bashful way either, got to respect that.
As a German I believe my perception of what is "goth" may be much more forgiving and liberal than, say, that of a brit. After all our version of the subculture pretty much gained traction when the Cure became famous here in their Japanese Whispers pop days, and from the very beginning incorporated synth heavy new wave music and was open towards EBM and similar stuff. In the early 90's we expanded our subculture into the bizarrest directions introducing techno, metal, classical, medieval, cabaret, post-industrial avant-garde,... you name it (see Das Ich, Lacrimosa, Goethes Erben, Deine Lakaien, Covus Corax,...), and make no mistake: there's always been debate over whether XYZ is goth or not, and I myself am certainly not fond of all of them, but ALWAYS arguments could be made in what way the style in question shares themes or origins or atmospheres or whatever and there have always been people deep within the traditional subculture who opened up for them. Hell, listen to "Himmelgrau" by Goethes Erben: it even has quasi rapped lyrics and is considered a 90's classic by many. But EVEN HERE you would be VERY hard pressed to find ANYONE who would even consider stuff like Lil Peep could exist within Goth. It's not gate-keeping. It's not old people being close minded towards evolution. Fuck no! It's simply being honest with labels. There's is no amount of overlay or relationship. Zero. So why are they so desperate for the "goth" label? It doesn't automatically make something cool or edgy, it's not an honour to be considered "goth". Why do they want to be labelled by something they simply aren't? Why not be their own thing?
As much as this really pisses me off, I find myself also not at all surprised that something like this has happened given the current state of the internet right now and the piles upon piles of misinformation spreading around this brain rotting, addictive technological disaster. I know, not all the Internet is bad, we have great people like Angela here setting the record straight and just making cool vids for one example. But I'm an 80's kid at heart, I'm 47, grew up with the scene as best as I could given my geographical location, etc, saw it evolve in the 90's. Most Goth in the 80's still maintained a very post punk vibe musically, during the 90's the sound evolved. For instance there's quite a difference between the bands 45 Grave(late 70's), March Violets(80's) when compared to Rosetta Stone, Nosferatu(both 90's). Rap will never be Goth period. Musically, the two genres are just so alien to one another...I believe people are mistaking "dark & kinky", and the degradation and dehumanisation of women for our beloved "goth" subculture.
You really got the perfect time and place to see things grow and flourish! Back then whatever information we got, we had to work for and they could be morsels at best but what we had, we cherished and appreciated because we worked for it. The concept of just getting music, the wild goose chase, easter egg hunt and mail order nightmare but when we got that vinyl/tape/CD we fawned over it! Here we have the perfect medium for finding all things goth right at our fingertips but it's somehow harder now to find anything legitimate because trenders have saturated and muddied the waters with garbage. So long as we keep shouting and speaking about what we know and love - we can cut through the bullshit.
@@angelabenedict Oh, the 80's were such a struggle. As a isolated farm girl in New Zealand I was only able to listen to Goth bands when I caught them while staying up very late at night on an old NZ 80's music video show, "Radio with Pictures". They had vids of "The Cure", The Cult, "The Mission", Joy Division, Killing Joke, etc. I didn't even know what Goth really was cause of my location, but I loved the sound of those particular bands.....I was regarded as quite the "weirdo" while growing up back then as I would wear dark clothes and I was a bit of a metal head as well which I still am, though Goth is my fave genre to this day. I remember once moving to Auckland city, I was finally able to buy my very first true Goth album, "Vampire's Kiss" by the band Two Witches. Love that album. That was in the mid 90's. It wasn't long before I was attending the clubs and expanding my wardrobe with DIY, Op shops purchases, and make up look. I can't wear much make up if any these days, thanks to rosacea, milia, and facial eczema(lucky me, sobs,lol). But sometimes I just say the hell with it and go all Goth with the make up, not just the clothes. Times were definitely simpler back then. As you said Angela, the Internet has clouded and muddied the waters. And just don't get me started on the media and how they love to negatively spotlight our subculture whenever they can do so. Parasites. Anyways, you look beautiful as always. Let's keep shouting!
As a 46-year-old goth (yes, I’ve been in the scene for a very long time), I certainly concur with many of your thoughts about the stupidity of this article. For one, just dressing up in black clothing and talking about “hot goth chicks” does not make anyone “goth” by default and I have always hated how, no matter how covered up we might be when going out, being a goth is always sexualized by people outside the community. That being said, I am a huge Corpse fan. While his music would definitely never fall into what has traditionally been considered “goth,” the tone of many of his songs and the subject matter therein, do have some very traditional goth themes: depression, pain, sorrow, anger, disillusionment, angst (to name but a few) and though “E-girls” does play off the “bad-bitch” stereotype that goth girls often get labeled with, the only violence in his song is directed at himself, not the girl (the lyric with knife reference isn’t sung by Corpse). I’m a goth/gothic-industrial diehard fan and at least 95% of what I listen to would definitely fall into that genre description, but there are some artists outside of this scene who still speak to the goth in me, even if the accompanying music does not fit melodic structures we are used to hearing. As for the “goth rap” label, yeah, it’s stupid and should be purged. If it makes you feel better, Corpse has sometimes called himself Emo, never goth. :-)
Back in the 80's the only "rap" song I heard at the clubs I went to was "World Destruction" it was sung by Afrika Bambaataa and John Lydon. The song was very political: This is a world destruction, your life ain't nothing. The human race is becoming a disgrace. Countries are fighting with chemical warfare. Not giving a damn about the people who live.
I’m so confused on why the term ‘gatekeeping’ even has anything to do with this sort of instance. So are we supposed to begin pretending rap music is goth? What’s next, country music is metal? This generation is delusional as fuck.
@@miriamreinhardt8939Absolutely, sorry if you misunderstood me, I just don’t understand why posers refer to us as gatekeepers for simply correcting them. They use it like it’s derogatory or something.
A bit of gatekeeping is in order. Not the obnoxious "woke" gatekeeping that has taken over every subculture with the younger generations (20 something's trying to say Anti Nowhere League shouldn't be allowed in punk comes to mind)...but a reasonable gatekeeping to maintain the purity of the essential elements of the subculture enough that it isn't completely bastardized.
honestly tho, im almost 20 and sure, even though im trying to get more into the scene (amongst others)- the younger ones are turning goth into something it's really not and it's so??? frustrating???
Thanks for this, it needed to be said. As an elder goth 80’s goth music is what I listen to having been in my 20’s in that decade when it hit my country. 🖤
Sometimes I do wonder if some of those articles are trolling. I used to be a huge fan of Marilyn Manson, and I have always been a fan of goth music. I feel like even his fans never considered him goth? Same with Korn and Corpse. None of them - or their fans - ever said they are goth? I think Marilyn Manson was much more associated with "emo" (pop-punk) music, and Corpse too is more akin to that crowd. Or maybe I am too much out of the loop, since I am not using social media as much as I used to be. Very good video, I am just struggling to understand how anyone could associate Lip Peep or Corpse with goth music. Emo-rap and metal-rap are words I heard used much more. I absolutely loved the facial expressions when reading the rap lyrics aloud btw! EDIT: TH-cam played 'Our Subculture Is Not Your Hashtag' from 2019 after this video, and you mentioned goth rappers. So there are actually people believing in it :/ weird
From what a lot of people have been telling me about Corpse, it's not so much he who refers to himself as goth but those who listen to him - same soundcloud ilk. Marilyn Manson was kind of grandfathered in by some goths as adjacent but never considered goth, more of a novelty but never Korn.
@C J I'm not shitting on them, I'm saying that they're not Goth. This video is to illustrate that they are in fact part of the rap culture which is entirely different from the goth culture both musically and historically.
@C J the point wasn't to highlight good rappers the point was to show separation between goth music, The Goth subculture and those who advertise themselves as 'goth rappers ' who all by the way subsequently exist on SoundCloud hence my mentioning the platform.
I think the problem here chief is that this article mislabeled emo rap as goth because of course they did. What's worse is that trap metal gets shoved in with emo rap a lot of the time, which kind of brings back the whole argument to people confusing goth with emo and metal since forever.
Excellent video, Angela! We need more people in the community speaking out against this “goth rap” abomination. I’ve actually been called an “elitist gatekeeper” on social media for bringing up and suggesting actual goth music and they don’t even like it 🙄 It’s insane to me how they openly disrespect the core of the subculture but so badly want the label.
Terms like "gatekeeper" and "elitist" are frequently misused to allow horrible hipsterwave bands in... I am not surprised that people are now also using them to let in this goth-rap baloney too.
@@nightchild4468 When I come across this, I tell people too but I always get sh*t for it smh I have been reluctant for around 2 years to look up goth stuff because I see things like this and it makes me feel really bad..
Closest thing I can think of to an actual goth rap would be Andrew Eldritch doing the spoken word section at the end of Under The Gun (last Sisters of Mercy single, 1993).
Switchblade Symphony has some bits of vocals that to me at least sound like Tina Root is rapping. It's not surprising considering their huge Trip-Hop influences, which on itself is a genre heavily influenced by the wider Hip-Hop culture. I wouldn't be opposed to someone bringing Rap and ACTUAL goth music together, but that's not what the artists people currently refer to as "Goth Rap" are doing.
From the top of my head the band "Linea aspera" has some violent lyrics, but I don't really think it counts as "evidence" to claim that goth music as a whole promotes violence and drug use. Alot of goth bands base their lyrics on poetry they've written that they then put music to. There's a strong literary background aswell. So boiling it down to being about one theme doesn't really work when there's so many genres and sub genres that fits under the goth umbrella. I just don't understand why they feel the need to slap goth on things to make it sellable? Why not create something of your own. And I aslo don't get if they think it's a bad thing or a cool thing, depends on the day I guess lol.
It doesn't help when MGK, the Kardashians and MGK'S girlfriend keep promoting it as well with their, "Oh, I'm so Goth," cringe. Plus the whole, "spooky" season trend where everyone thinks they're Goth just because they listen to Lil Peephole and watch American Horror Story lol. Ugggh it's people like that that make me lose interest in my favorite holiday lol.
"...and a frying pan." I had to pause. I needed a moment before I could continue and hear anything because every time I think I am done, another giggle fit begins.
Videos like this are exactly why my socials are mainly posts of me linking people to your channel. You always hit the nail on the head! So wise and informative, getting the record set straight. At nearly 34 and having been in the gothic subculture pretty much since I was four (not even kidding, I still have photos of me dressed in all black on my first day of kindergarten lol) and moving through the decades, I'm constantly getting into arguments with people who think they know me better than I know myself. "Oh well goth is more of an umbrella term to describe a changing Era and is basically just emo now." ... like you said about this rap business, they don't sound anything alike, in any capacity. A point I often make is if one were to walk into a record store, you wouldn't find any of the bands I listen to in the rap or country or emo section. They're their own genres, keep them separate. And now these emo resurgence people are trying to say 80s traditional goth bands are basically just emo bands because, they're emo and they like one or two songs by them... if you want the biggest difference between the two, goths don't try to claim something is ours just because we like it. I'll listen to other 80s or 90s music or even 70s rock without trying to claim it as goth just because I resonate with the gothic subculture, I still acknowledge they are their own genres. But to tell an emo kid that something they like, which sounds nothing like their specific kind of music, doesn't qualify as "emo" music makes them cry. But they're emo and would do that anyway, I guess lol.
Oh my gawd! This shit is almost hilarious. Almost. Goth is older than these wet nosed babies. As far as corpse husband, he never ever claimed to be Goth. I used to listen to his horror narrations. He suddenly got big. He never ever said his music is Goth. He said his music came from deep depression and anxiety. He explained the egirls song. He said the song came from his sudden popularity. He avoids his face been seen. No one knows what he looks like. But these people who know nothing about goth but the Goth tag on him. I used to like him, but he has stopped his horror narrations because of health issues. He has several horrible medical conditions. He has major gard issues. A lot of people flock to his videos because of his insane low voice. I wish the best for him. Now on to the article. Goth is new but it's an old animal? Which is it? I remember goth bands in the 1980s. The Cure anyone? They were my first exposure to Goth. I remember seeing their video for the first time. I believe the video was Lullaby and I was hooked. Who what this strange man in red lipstick and hair that was wild? It was like Prince's music and Prince. It became a drug to me. Music was my drug. Goth music isn't about rage and other shit normal fucks want to tag onto it. Goth is more than that. Goth is seeing beauty in the dark and other things normal folks don't care for or fear. Now, its became popular for these assholes to slap Goth on every fucking thing that they don't understand. Nor care too. The other people mentioned. I never fucking heard of them. Their music sounds like fetish porn to be honest. Goth girls ha vcd e became a fetish to fuckers who don't understand consent. They think Goth girls are the best targets because we're already damaged goods. But, this isn't nothing new. Back in the 1990s I had to keep jocks off me because I was a fetish. It was like swatting flies away. I remember one of our Goth men getting into a fist fight with a jock because the jock got to touchy with one of us girls. Marilyn Manson and Korn are not Goth. Period. MM is a shock rocker. He used the Goth image to shock 1990s America and it fucking worked. I remember his tainted love video he had Goth Thug on the license plate of the care and dressed like Goth gang bangers which rubbed me the wrong way. MM will use any image to piss off people. It's like the shit he's pulling with Keyne West with the church shit. He has some serious accusations his way and he's trying his best to say look at me. I'm not the bad guy. Using MM as example of what Goth is by the media is infuriating. Not to mention the public opinion on Goth in general. They view goths as violent, depraved, depressed, psychotic, fetishist and ect. When real goths speak up saying that's not how we are, we are told to shut up. Stop being fucking gatekeepers. Well, my response is fuck you. I've been part of the Gothic community while most of these mother fucker where in diapers or not even a twinkle in their parents eyes. I've felt with the insane amount of harassment, bulling and threats. I've been fetishized and abused by these fuckers. Now these fuckers want our name? I think not. Rap and Goth are not sisters, not even friends. So I'm going to say this loud and fucking clear. I'm a fucking Gatekeeper. You better have the right pass to enter or you'll be put on blast. Signed an Old School Goth who's sick of their shit.
Anybody who is into violence, especially towards women, and drug use is most definitely not Goth. I was a Punk Rocker in my young teens here in London, and then moved into the Goth scene as a natural evolution around 1980. I have never known any Goth to be violent or a Smackhead. Rap is rap, and it sure ain't Goth.
Is this a joke? Violence towards women is what every shitty man is capable of. It's a crime that exists in EVERY country, done by every race, men of every social status, every imaginable like and dislike, every subculture. A rich doctor will do it just as a successful businessman will, just like some guy in a metal band will. I'm surprised at this naivety at your age and it smacks of "If I didn't see it. It doesn't happen". If any really young girl is reading. Please don't think "alternative" guys are in any way different and you're safe with absolutely all of them. Male violence towards women is a global problem. It's a problem of male entitlement and unchecked aggression, not of what kind of music he's into.
@@Maialeen - That is just a tad hysterical, and appears to paint all men as predatory monsters. Please don't include me in your propaganda. I also notice that you fail to mention the not uncommon problem of female violence towards men, or do you not believe such violence occurs? This is not a gender war. Violence against anybody is abhorrent, no matter who is doing the hitting.
I’m very late to this video. I’m usually on this account just to watch youtube for fun. I unfortunately was someone people would call a “goth rapper” I can’t believe I was so blind from everything, I can see how something like this is FARRRR from goth now. Thank you!
I physically face slapped (not palmed) when you said the bit about Lil whatever the fuck they're called inventing goth. Dear Lord. Who are these people?!
I was a babybat back when the goth scene where I lived was dying.. Though there was a group of babybats below the group I associated with.. I was lucky to catch the last breaths of a thriving scene though I had a lot to learn then, learned a lot after and am still learning! I claim Goth as a label because that's who I am at heart. The music speaks to me and is what i am mostly drawn to. I dress very dark witchy hippy with a goth twist. But I am not an 'Ubergoth' 90% of the time in the way I look. How I look though combined with the musical taste I have (while a lot veers away from gothic rock). Says who I am. But only because I was open to learning. And I am grateful to those that showed me the way. If you are recommended Goth music, told that Goth is a music subculture and are not willing to listen; you are not Goth and have no excuse. If you adopt the looks and themes. But if you refuse to learn what Goths are only too happy to share (It is not gatekeeping!).... Stop claiming a label that has nothing to do with what you claim to represent and find a new name for yourself. Sincerely, a now Eldergoth who listened and learned!!!! (I am 37 years old and don't justify myself to anybody, I am also accepted for who I am!)
Ooh, you start the comparison with one of my favourites; Switchable Symphony! Not even having listened, the SoundCloud shit can't compare! Edit; it didn't. Shock don't make it goth!
Now onto your 3rd choice, Faith and the Muse. My other favourite.. SoundCloud cRAP won't compare... Faith and the Muse; Fade and Remain Shattered in Aspect The Burning Season .. And... In Dreams of Mine.. A song about, .... drugs? No. A song about cats. Fellow beings. Spirituality. There is no real comparison... Those that won't look any further, find another label You. Are. Not. Goth!
Last comment, thank you Angela for this video, standing up for Goth. From, a Goth who listened to learn and claims the label because I cared to learn and it fits me. To those who won't listen or learn, we are not gatekeepers, in my experience we are more than happy, enthusiastic even to share, if you won't take the open hand willing to share, You Are Not Goth!
Unless he’s part of a disinformation campaign about the subculture, of course. As someone who’s worked as an editor, I’d definitely sack the bastard who wrote this piece, it’s the hallmark of a hack.
@@darkerthanblack8897 Dont feel pressured to label yourself, but thats how it happened for me! I started off not thinking i was goth, just outside the mainstream, then people started to call me goth and I felt bad so I started to listen to the music and I loved it.
If you like the music and dress the part. Most of all have the mentally of Goth. Chance are, you're Goth. But, you don't have to label yourself. I'm a Goth who adores Prince. Never let anyone tell you who you are. 😊
The truth is, a lot don't know what emo is at all, let alone goth. I usually defend the emo scene a lot but as I grew to love goth music, I definitely see how both genres are incredibly overlooked, misrepresented, and underappreciated. Hence why I always try to make it known what emo, punk, and goth actually are, since they all deserve recognition
Wow thanks for reminding me to listen to Soverign. It's so funny how people mistook numetal for original goth, and now numetal was referred to as the original with soundcloud rap being the "new evolution"
I met someone new at my school and they asked "what music do you like, lil peep right?" I didn't mind, just thought that was a bit random, but I didn't know people associated that guy with goth
@@nightchild4468 we don't talk now but if I meet anyone else who asks, or who tries to call me their fucking "goth bitch" for that matter like in these lyrics, I will
Loved this video so much!! it is ridiculous how much ignorant stuff and misconceptions are thrown around about our subculture. I get awful messages by people who fetishize goths and have to block a ton of creeps that sexually harass me and friends. Thank you for this video 🦇
Less than one minute in and all I can say is FUCKING THANK YOU!!! I've never been a goth myself, just a fly on the wall for over a couple decades...but still. I used to enjoy going to clubs on occasion when they existed. Regularly when I lived in a town that had a weekly goth night.
The mainstream doesn't care at all about the reality of, well, anything, but about guiding people towards consuming certain products. It's like when the teen magazines told the kids that to be a Punk they needed to get leather jackets with metal studs, and get particular accessories, and all that BS, when in reality the bands which were at the front of the movement were just kids wearing whatever they had, as simple as that. And now we had a new generation of kids wanting to be "rebels" and "edgy", and whom have also been terribly misguided by the mainstream to believe the brand of stupid self destructive (and also false, insincere) hedonism performers as these "goth rappers" represent/promote is the way to achieve that; to which they attach the term "goth" because it has been well established as a stereotype that being "a goth" is not something good boys and girls do, so it's all a massive BS scheme to exploit them. Aside from that; I just discovered (completely by accident) Actors, Mental Discipline, and I would say Glass Apple Bonsai, but I don't know what you would or do think about them. And aside from all that; your hair looks simply glorious like this. So beautiful!
I remember back in the day girl talk and shout was saying Avril Lavign was punk and that wearing ties as part of mainstream fashion was cool. Ummmm not unless you're in a DDlg relationship and that's private between consenting adults
@@FrankenFunder sorry, I don't know what "DDIg" means. And what you point out is just another example of what I'm saying. It's just mercantilism appropriating cultural elements for a profit.
Thank you! I feel like this has gotten so out of hand that we cant take a step back and correct all of this in mainstream culture like it’s too far gone which is unfortunate since, whatever it is, it needs its own name that doesn’t have “goth” in the title
This reminds me of something I saw in the 80's. My mother liked Country Music, she watched CMT all the time. One night on a Variety Show some guys were on doing "The Redneck Rap" - it was a silly send up of an incompatible Music Form being imposed on another music form. They were MOCKING this sort of attempt before it happened, with Goth it snuck in under the radar, the only thing for it is to mock those associations wherever they turn up.
Some lyrics should not be read without music and some not even with music. In Steampunk rap has become popular and has it's own 'Chap Hop' sub genre whose light hearted and comic themes are Steampunk related. I can't think of a Goth equivalent, but I hope if it existed it would have lyrics more tasteful and imaginative than the ones you read out,. I hope you recover from the experience. 😎
First of all - THANK YOU for being the goth warrior you are 🙏 I'm so grateful someone is speaking up and educating others when it comes to goth. You are so needed in this ongoing misinformed monologue... Because let's face it - It's not a debate when it's just banging one tone deaf drum... 🙄 So thank you 🙏 I really just feel like crying and screaming when you read the horrible sexistic misogynistic lyrics encouraging sexual abuse against women - Masquerading as goth music - When it's REALLY NOT! So not only do women have to deal with MORE ABUSE THAN WE ALREADY DO - We goths have to defend our subculture EVEN MORE THAN BEFORE ‼️😡🤬
Hi, this is just the latest in various forces in music trying to expand the Goth category way, way too much. Thanks for defending the boundaries and not knuckling under to the false "anyone can do anything" vibe that is being pushed today.
As a Lil peep fan, he’s definitely not goth. He’s usually considered to be under Emo rap, not “goth rap”. Anyone who thinks he’s goth knows nothing about the subculture. Everyone misuses the word goth now when they would really fall under e-kids, emos or just alt. It’s sad to see they know nothing.
Anyone who considers Lil Peep "goth rap" knows little to nothing about goth or rap. This is coming from a fan of both rap and goth (though I prefer goth).
I don't know who the other rappers are that were mentioned (I maybe have heard of Lil Peep?), but I can't believe that article called Corpse goth rap. Corpse doesn't call himself goth and does not promote his music as goth, so that writer pulled that out of their ass, because as we well know, most people don't seem to understand the difference between "dark themes" and "goth" in the least. Also, as another commenter mentioned, the particular Corpse song you read lyrics for was a bit of a literal joke (it's packed full of anime references, for example, that are rather silly if you get them). Not saying it doesn't have problematic lyrics, but it wasn't something Corpse was trying to make as "goth rap." NB: not trying to be a stan, I'm just a goth who also enjoys Corpse's horror and gaming content and has listened to some of his songs, and that article is bullshit.
I love Corpse's horror content, I actually first started following him when he was just a horror narrator on youtube. I haven't listened to his music too much but yeah, he has never claimed to be goth or to have done goth music, some of his songs are very tongue in cheek. I think he seems like a sweet person. The article is literal trash, I don't know most of the newer artists mentioned but judging by the state of research in this article in general, not sure most of the artists and bands ever claimed to be goth music.
I'm a metalhead who enjoys the gothic aesthetic. I do not call myself goth as I don't listen to goth music specially. There is a difference and I agree with you. Love your videos!
Before people started calling it "goth rap", and making the lyrics about drugs and women and whatever else... there was a genre called horrorcore. In horrorcore, you could rap about darker themes like ghosts, suicide, and other elements like that. I will admit to listening to rap because I've been around enough people through the years, since I was in my 20's, that liked rap. I did listen to some horrorcore rap to help offset the fact I had to have rap on around them. One group was Gravediggaz. Why is it now acceptable that anything dark is suddenly goth? It wasn't that way to begin with, and really doesn't help other alternative genres. This journalist didn't take the time to really research what they were talking about it would seem.
By the way I did hear one person that claimed to be "goth rap" back in the day, and that was Mizfit Da Menace. But he rapped about horror movie things. Anyways, good video as always
Thank you for mentioning horrorcore. It's sad that people often do not use that term anymore
@@dryisshy you're welcome, and I fully agree with you. I think these days people are too obsessed with anything dark being "goth" suddenly. AFI have been called goth for an example
Alice Cooper did spooky and dark stuff but neither rap or goth. Just rock n roll. A lot of genres of rock I just call rock. Keeps it simple.
Rap is rap even if it's not a complete clone of other new rap.
Besides there is industrial hip-hop (should have been called rap) with heavy, obscure themes in similar tone to horrorcore. Many years ago there was rapcore which influenced guitar music greatly. It's suits industrial more although I don't see problem with goth bands using harsher vocals in term of rap singing. Atonal voice can combine many things. There is a lot of experimental rap but I see where problem is.
Clive Barker actually gave props to Horrorcore genre when he was at a higher point in his career.
Lyrics of goth music: *eloquent, melancholy, beautiful, pure poetry*
Lyrics of "goth rappers": *slur, slur, slur, uwu, drugs, violence, slur, misogyny, slur, chains, guns, slur*
The fact that there are people that genuinely can't tell the difference frightens me.
More like: mumble, bitch, hoe, I get high, I wanna die, bitch, hoe, thot, mumble some more, find other ways to poorly portray black people because I couldn’t make money in the rock/metal scene
This is why Goth Rap cant really be a thing. You could, conceivably, have goth lyrics with rap vocals - Gangsters Paradise comes pretty close in its mood - but raps focus on self promotion and dissing everyone else is completely the opposite of typical goth.
@@mallencolly Goth music isn't a "mood", it's a SOUND.....
the "uwu" got me, oh my goodness
@@Anonymous-wb3nz goth music is far too broad a category to be "a SOUND" . There are multiple genres and bands as difetent to each other as Nephilim, Sopor Aeturnus, All About Eve, Alien Sex Fiend, Die Form. What do you suppose brings them together under one broad category?
Goth song about drugs : Sisters of Mercy - Amphetamine Logic. But it is tonally different and does not glorify drugs, it laments them.
Plus on the Tik Tok meme front we had that well and truly covered already with so many featuring Sudno by Molchat Doma for at least a couple of years.
Goth does not hold the patent on dark themes and aesthetics. Rapping about them doesn't make rap goth by default. Music genres don't work like that.
totally agree. and there’s been so many real goth (or goth-adjacent, at the very least) songs trending on tiktok. this journalist could’ve used anything else if they just did their research
Lucretia My Reflection: “Hot metal and methedrine”
50% of their songs are about Meth😂😂
Anyone who has dealt with drugs will never paint them in a healthy light.
Goth music is more likely to as you said lament it rather than glorify!
Someone was saying "Dance on Glass" was code for dancing on meth as well as the literal visual.
Who wrote this article?
Korn? Marilyn Manson? Corpse who has literally stated multiple times that he is not goth and the music he makes is not goth is all of a sudden goth now? It seems like this person literally saw 'spooky' and alternative music and just labeled it goth.
And let's be honest I don't even think the vast majority of the rap and hip hop community claim that 'goth' rap nonsense.
Most of them don’t, but Lil Peep was a fan of The Cure and Joy Division. Ghostemane also stated that he enjoys Christian Death, Sisters Of Mercy, Cocteau Twins, The Cure, etc.
Quoting the author of this article: "I don't like walking on the beach, but I love playing the guitar and geeking out about music." I think he should geek out about goth a bit more before writing an expert article on it, hmm...
"Who wrote this article?" - An idiot. :)
@@DarthVil Exactly.
Exactly this! I was actually there to live through the early 2000's, and listened to both Korn and actual 80's goth music over the course of my life (gotta love Depeche Mode and Sisters of Mercy; both absolute legends, but some more modern bands modernizing old goth music like Long Night are definitely good as well). So I'd personally say that the two genres are VASTLY different. Like, for pete's sake, the whole-ass melody between the two doesn't even remotely sound alike!
I swear my soul left my body when you were reading the rap lyrics! 🤣 Tears of laughter mixed with extreme frustration & sadness. 💀🖤
Hi Sara! I felt the same! It frustrates me that the misinformation is growing so quickly and they refuse to listen to reason.
The lyrics sound like they were written by a 12 year old.
It was hella dreadful
🖤 love you Sara!
@ Sara Monster pretty much the same. I "can't" believe what is being past off,so wrong
You contrasting the lyrics of “goth rap” with actual goth music tells you all you need to know about how vastly different goth music is from this rubbish trying to push itself into our subculture. This video was brilliant, and making it was a great idea.
@@a.i.contacttracer305 how?
@@a.i.contacttracer305 not liking rap TRASH does not make one a racist, troll. P.S. there are many people of color that are Goths. Real, actual Goths who like real Goth music. Grow up.
@@nightchild4468 all the “musicians” she mentions are white also…. You’re right there are many poc in the scene especially in NYC where she is kinda from.
@@chiralityraven337 uk, OK????? Why does it matter that the musicians she mentioned are white?
@@nightchild4468not sure why you’re being defensive when I’m Agreeing with you. Point being how is she racist?!
Story time. In 2008-2010, I was a young girl in my 20s living in San Francisco. As a Goth, I was attacked and beat up numerous times by random rap fans. I was called Vampire Bitch, Goth Freak, etc. Why the hell are the very people who used to torment us now trying to push their way into OUR world?! You are NOT welcome.
Look at how entitled those kinds of people are. I love rap personally, but I have to admit that out of all genres of music, rap fans are the worst.
That’s horrible. I’m sorry that happened to you. It reminds me of the whole “black women and box braids are ghetto and twerking is disgusting!” Now those exact same people are speaking Ebonics, wearing the hairstyles and twerking poorly.
I’ve been sexually harassed by rap fans who called me “RaCiSt fOr bEiNg gOtH” because I was allegedly “trying to be white” for deviating from racist stereotypes as a biracial person and they wanted to rape me (one of them even implicitly called me the N-word which really pissed me off when I finally realized, and he called me “racist” for ALLEGEDLY “hating rap music”) and they sexualized every “alternative” thing about me (such as my side-shave) to make me feel like a dirty whore just for being alternative as a PoC
Wow, that's sad. Did you carry a weapon afterwards? Also San Fran has problems with street fighting?
@@te9591 I carried pepper spray after that attack.
Actual goth music is poetic and magical especially with its lyrics and unique musical styles. This "goth rap" is just a bit like how violent and controversial can we make the lyrics? Then put those same lyrics to a cliche generic rap tune. Stop appropriating our subculture for your profitication.
Yup. Poetic like Burger Bar Baby with The Big Boobies.
Well said Aaron Brown
these kind of comments sound like they're from people without much knowledge/interest in hip hop. i understand people who lean more towards goth would likely pick out the worst examples, but hip hop can be and is all of those things you described goth as too.
What's sad is that even rap itself did not start out glamorizing drugs and demeaning women, it was block party music!
Early rap died then came back as gangsta rap. Ugh. Early rap was often humorous even.
@@JNoMooreNumbers That's true---"Rapper's Delight" by the Sugarhill Gang has some pretty funny parts in it. I miss rap music like this. This was when rap was good. Now it's crap. (Jan Griffiths).
@@douglasgriffiths3534 You talk too much by Run DMC, Big Butts by MC Hammer. Even Blondie's Man from Mars was rapping but more musical was her style. 80s was the fun music like B52s and Talking Heads.
No 🤦♂️ rap started out as rebellion music and is still largely rebellion music. Listen to less Eminem and more Run the Jewels.
@@SiriPsychopomp NO. First off, I don't give a quasi-fart about Eminem, and please don't assume you aren't talking to someone who *actually* grew up in the era being discussed. Rap came out of hip-hop in the 70s. They would have block parties in NY where the MC - Master of Ceremonies - would RAP over records being spun and "scratched" by DJs - Disc Jockeys. For BLOCK PARTIES. The earliest "rebellious" group was probably NWA, though by then (80s), a lot of rap was going towards the violent, misogynistic side, aka "gangsta rap".
Good Gravy. Read this article and Dude can't write at all. Marilyn Manson? Korn? Neither of those are Goth bands.
Clearly dude did NONE of the research I did when I was writing the Spinsterella Books. If he did his research he'd have talked about how Goth is a music based subculture started in the UK in the late 70s out of Punk rock. Goth bands are Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, Joy Division and Siouxisie and the Banshees. Goth has been around for over 40 years. it's not a new thing.
Goth music doesn't promote drug use. AT ALL. Listened to lots of Goth music over the last 30 years and most of it is peaceful. Some of it is poetic. A lot of it is thought provoking.
Goths are NOT violent. In 40 years of Goth events and there have been ZERO incidents of violence. And that's all over the world. Most Goths I've talked to are usually the shy kid who who collects comics and Manga, watches Horror movies, Anime, Sci-fi, and superhero movies and ain't looking for trouble. In most cases Goth kids are the ones who get bullied and harassed by Norms.
What this crap calling itself an article is doing is promoting stereotypes about the Goth Scene and Goth Music that aren't true. What they're calling Goth Rap is Bad Rap music trying to put a label on itself to sell.
I don't know how dude got this garbage past an editor. Because all the points in his article can easily be refuted by doing basic research. It's a shame that an indie writer like myself does a better job of research on Goth than a writer who is allegedly supposed to be a journalist.
You tell 'em, Queen!!
PS: Thank you for using our song for the video!
I've been binging your music. Sooooooo Good!
First minute in, and I am like yesssssssss! THANK YOU!
This is an important video. I'm not a super avid internet user but all of the misinformation and genre label hijacked stuff seems to get pushed to the top where the mainstream is concerned. It's not that shocking to me they compared to 90s nu metal since that's the same stuff we got taken for back then.
I have refrained from using this word since the 90's but here I go.......I'm gonna say it........*Charging up*
POOOOOOOOSSSEEERS!!!!!!!!!!
They are absolutely posers. They wouldn't dare step into a Goth club.
Amen!!!
Thank you for speaking out about it , I completely agree in addition to people my age swearing up and down Lil Peep , Lil Tracy , Corpse , Ext are goth but when you ask them about an actual goth rock band they became confused
Exactly! That's the same thing that I've encountered. People will see my look and ask me about the names you've mentioned and when I counter with ACTUAL goth bands they don't only become confused, some will flat out call you a fake goth or gatekeeper.
@@angelabenedict Likewise , The people my age are clearly brainwashed to think that because it's popular in the underground scene of rap , and they just pretty much bite off the style just to call themselves different , not trying to sound like a neckbeard
Ikr, people think goth and emo are the same and that those artists are emo rappers but they're not emo, they're just shit rap
@@arthurstuberculosis I can go on for days about this
These rappers and their fans have no idea what goth actually is, and absolutely no one can change my mind. Keep this shit out of goth.
I think it’s cool that people try and experiment with different sounds, and get creative with mixing genres as inspiration. BUT, don’t take something that is established, and try to say it’s the same, because it’s not and it never will be. Goth is an established subculture and music genre and no one will change that ever. Just make a new label for your music y’all.
I feel like they are clearly trying to, specially with terms like egirl/boy rising to prominence, but some people are really stuck up about not calling THAT a new subculture kids end up seeking established subcultures for validation when it’s just not them. I feel like people are more preoccupied with boxes and them being seen as “good” or “bad” more than ever.
Damn its refreshing to hear this. Even in Facebook groups that from the name you would suppose would have the same opinion as you, there are always those ready to shriek 'gatekeeper' if you even hint at the fact that Goth is a defined subculture based around a defined set of music genres (Goth Rock, Darkwave, Deathrock etc), it is not some amorphous blob that can essentially fit any definition that you wish. The worst is when you get the whole 'Yes, but the Goth scene has evolved since the eighties so move on blah blah...' YES!!! No shit it has evolved! Lebanon Hanover, She Past away, Molchat Doma, Drab Majesty, Ash Code, Boy Harsher etc etc etc Have you even heard of these bands? Did you even know you can still actually go to Goth clubs, gigs and festivals, you know, the place where the ACTUAL Goth 'scene' is where you can listen to all the contemporary Goth bands that are still putting out amazing music? Nope! Go back to jerking off online over 'Goth Thots' doing Agehao faces then! Rant over!
i agree, i’ve been called a gatekeeper because i said that artists that make trap or mumble rap are not goth.
I heard good things from Lebanon Hanover, Molchat Doma and Boy Harsher. I like how they’re keeping the goth flag flying, but even switched on normies can like them too. As far as gatekeepers go, you need them for quality control and making sure you’re not infiltrated by Britain’s tabloid journalists ,police, intelligence agencies, the British National Party or the SWP.
In defense of corpse, he never, to my knowledge, claimed to be goth or that his music is either. Alternative rap would be accurate, but it doesn't get the clicks this writer wanted I guess 🤷♀️🤦♀️
He has specifically stated more than once that his music is not Goth. I respect him for that.
I wouldn't say there's anything alternative about it. It's trap music
I've slept on this video and thought a lot more about the fetishization of goth women aspect of this type of rap that was pointed out and I think what I heard a few years ago in terms of referencing what they were referring to as "goth girls" at that time as a catch-all for any emo girl who wore black that they feared would reject their love wasn't as negatively entrenched and malignant and from the lyrics you read it sounds like it's now much less an unfortunate fashion descriptor and it has festered and exploded into something way more sinister and very dangerous for the women of the goth community (an open invitation to abuse all goth women because of shitty and completely wrong stereotypes). If this is the case, then nope nope NOPE, the goth community absolutely needs to be in their faces to tell them to GFTO. We have enough problems with oftentimes physically violent backlash because of dishonest stereotypes and misogyny from everywhere else, including at times from within our own community. The more I think about that article and the damage its existence is doing to legitimize rap language depicting violence towards goth women because of the twisted stereotype/fetish that we look the way we do because we're asking for it, the more angry I'm getting. Thank you for making this video, it is a very much needed public service announcement that hopefully a number of these cloud rap kids will run across at some point and hopefully learn from.
Any moment now, Gen Z will accuse us of “gatekeeping” goth culture.
Gatekeeping is a necessity; things like misogyny, homophobia, and classism don’t belong in the Goth scene and should be kept out
Hey now, lets not judge entire generations for some behavior some of us do, some of us really like the real goth music
Zoomer here, not all of us b like that 😭😭😭
@@cranberrijuicc same, I hate it how many hyper political activists have used being Goth as their weapons and mistreat it as such. Subcultures should always be apolitical.
Plenty of gates, not a whole lotta fence in my opinion. New subcultures form, tastes evolve, and people find new ways of expressing themselves. And I'm watching my fellow oldschoolers tsk tsk at kids now and it just reminds me of how we felt back at that age...everything we did was overanalyzed and dissected by people who wanted to put us down...weird how it keeps happening.
what sucks is there are some really great goth bands/ solo acts out right now. The scene is so alive and vibrant, yet not very big compared to other genres. Yet these rappers, who by rap standards are trash, get so much more recognition.
I hate how the really bad stuff is publicised and the really good stuff is kept away from the eyes and ears of the great British public. When you show the great British public, they don't want to learn more about it.
It's really sad that I miss the days when people would think Evanescence was the first goth band; compared to this crap.
There have always been bad trends that have attempted to attach themselves to the term.... trip hop, goth metal, nu metal, cyber-goth, hipsters, hipsterwave... and now this goth-rap... **sigh**, it's been a long time and some damage is done with each wave of nonsense since some industry people allow it... of course, there also has been some damage through chipping away at the legacy of Goth through other means, as with the revival of Death Rock (now called deathrock which some separatists have tried to put apart from goth while also claiming many bands), and the twisted marketing use of the multi-purpose and oxymoronic term Post Punk (so much can be written on it alone).
@Spookycide Me too. I love Evanescence to this day. 🖤 I know that many Goths really hate bands like Evanescence because they were falsely called Goth and also promoted as a Goth band in the mainstream. I'm grateful for them because otherwise I wouldn't have developed an interest in dark rock/metal music that eventually led me to the Goth scene.
Evanescence was my very first concert! I went as a minor with a friend and her “cool parents” who brought us teen goth kiddos up to the front (bar area) where I was within like 20 ft of Amy Lee circa 2002. Best first concert ever.
I never felt evanescence was goth (and I was a young teenager when they got big) and I literally hid my love for them like a dirty secret for years. Now? Everyone is showing their cards lo!! 😂
Can someone please tell me what is the proper classification for Evanescance at least from the goth perspective? Is it a specific type of rock band? I've never known what to make of them (though I'm fond of some of their tunes). Thanks.
Bauhaus's first single release was actually "Bela Lugosi's Dead" on 6 August 1979, 42 years ago (as of August 2021). Their debut album, "In the Flat Field" was released in November 1980. I remember buying it. I'm not nitpicking you on dates, I'm supporting your premise that Goth has been around longer than the guy who wrote the article has probably been alive, 42 years ago!
Wish I could hit the like button a million times, you made so many valid points supporting your thoughts toward the writer, in not a bashful way either, got to respect that.
As a German I believe my perception of what is "goth" may be much more forgiving and liberal than, say, that of a brit. After all our version of the subculture pretty much gained traction when the Cure became famous here in their Japanese Whispers pop days, and from the very beginning incorporated synth heavy new wave music and was open towards EBM and similar stuff. In the early 90's we expanded our subculture into the bizarrest directions introducing techno, metal, classical, medieval, cabaret, post-industrial avant-garde,... you name it (see Das Ich, Lacrimosa, Goethes Erben, Deine Lakaien, Covus Corax,...), and make no mistake: there's always been debate over whether XYZ is goth or not, and I myself am certainly not fond of all of them, but ALWAYS arguments could be made in what way the style in question shares themes or origins or atmospheres or whatever and there have always been people deep within the traditional subculture who opened up for them. Hell, listen to "Himmelgrau" by Goethes Erben: it even has quasi rapped lyrics and is considered a 90's classic by many.
But EVEN HERE you would be VERY hard pressed to find ANYONE who would even consider stuff like Lil Peep could exist within Goth.
It's not gate-keeping. It's not old people being close minded towards evolution. Fuck no! It's simply being honest with labels. There's is no amount of overlay or relationship. Zero. So why are they so desperate for the "goth" label? It doesn't automatically make something cool or edgy, it's not an honour to be considered "goth". Why do they want to be labelled by something they simply aren't? Why not be their own thing?
😂
Before dom Beginning IS XOTH ond Xoth is with Xod ond Xoth IS Xod!
I say this with the utmost respect. This video explains why gatekeeping is necessary at times.
As much as this really pisses me off, I find myself also not at all surprised that something like this has happened given the current state of the internet right now and the piles upon piles of misinformation spreading around this brain rotting, addictive technological disaster. I know, not all the Internet is bad, we have great people like Angela here setting the record straight and just making cool vids for one example.
But I'm an 80's kid at heart, I'm 47, grew up with the scene as best as I could given my geographical location, etc, saw it evolve in the 90's. Most Goth in the 80's still maintained a very post punk vibe musically, during the 90's the sound evolved. For instance there's quite a difference between the bands 45 Grave(late 70's), March Violets(80's) when compared to Rosetta Stone, Nosferatu(both 90's).
Rap will never be Goth period. Musically, the two genres are just so alien to one another...I believe people are mistaking "dark & kinky", and the degradation and dehumanisation of women for our beloved "goth" subculture.
You really got the perfect time and place to see things grow and flourish! Back then whatever information we got, we had to work for and they could be morsels at best but what we had, we cherished and appreciated because we worked for it. The concept of just getting music, the wild goose chase, easter egg hunt and mail order nightmare but when we got that vinyl/tape/CD we fawned over it! Here we have the perfect medium for finding all things goth right at our fingertips but it's somehow harder now to find anything legitimate because trenders have saturated and muddied the waters with garbage. So long as we keep shouting and speaking about what we know and love - we can cut through the bullshit.
@@angelabenedict Oh, the 80's were such a struggle. As a isolated farm girl in New Zealand I was only able to listen to Goth bands when I caught them while staying up very late at night on an old NZ 80's music video show, "Radio with Pictures". They had vids of "The Cure", The Cult, "The Mission", Joy Division, Killing Joke, etc. I didn't even know what Goth really was cause of my location, but I loved the sound of those particular bands.....I was regarded as quite the "weirdo" while growing up back then as I would wear dark clothes and I was a bit of a metal head as well which I still am, though Goth is my fave genre to this day.
I remember once moving to Auckland city, I was finally able to buy my very first true Goth album, "Vampire's Kiss" by the band Two Witches. Love that album. That was in the mid 90's. It wasn't long before I was attending the clubs and expanding my wardrobe with DIY, Op shops purchases, and make up look. I can't wear much make up if any these days, thanks to rosacea, milia, and facial eczema(lucky me, sobs,lol). But sometimes I just say the hell with it and go all Goth with the make up, not just the clothes.
Times were definitely simpler back then. As you said Angela, the Internet has clouded and muddied the waters. And just don't get me started on the media and how they love to negatively spotlight our subculture whenever they can do so. Parasites.
Anyways, you look beautiful as always. Let's keep shouting!
As a 46-year-old goth (yes, I’ve been in the scene for a very long time), I certainly concur with many of your thoughts about the stupidity of this article. For one, just dressing up in black clothing and talking about “hot goth chicks” does not make anyone “goth” by default and I have always hated how, no matter how covered up we might be when going out, being a goth is always sexualized by people outside the community.
That being said, I am a huge Corpse fan. While his music would definitely never fall into what has traditionally been considered “goth,” the tone of many of his songs and the subject matter therein, do have some very traditional goth themes: depression, pain, sorrow, anger, disillusionment, angst (to name but a few) and though “E-girls” does play off the “bad-bitch” stereotype that goth girls often get labeled with, the only violence in his song is directed at himself, not the girl (the lyric with knife reference isn’t sung by Corpse).
I’m a goth/gothic-industrial diehard fan and at least 95% of what I listen to would definitely fall into that genre description, but there are some artists outside of this scene who still speak to the goth in me, even if the accompanying music does not fit melodic structures we are used to hearing.
As for the “goth rap” label, yeah, it’s stupid and should be purged. If it makes you feel better, Corpse has sometimes called himself Emo, never goth. :-)
That corpse song should be called "e-girls are ruining my subculture"
You're not lying! They do my head in.
Some of these rap lyrics, I almost died laughing lol 😂😅
They are horrible.
I know I can’t believe some people actually take pride in listening to stuff like this.
This type of music is for people that couldn't even finish High School.....
This is why I carry a long cane umbrella with a metal point because they think we’re whores.
Yet they tell is 'It's not that deep".
Back in the 80's the only "rap" song I heard at the clubs I went to was "World Destruction" it was sung by Afrika Bambaataa and John Lydon. The song was very political:
This is a world destruction, your life ain't nothing.
The human race is becoming a disgrace.
Countries are fighting with chemical warfare.
Not giving a damn about the people who live.
I like that one, too!
I’m so confused on why the term ‘gatekeeping’ even has anything to do with this sort of instance. So are we supposed to begin pretending rap music is goth? What’s next, country music is metal? This generation is delusional as fuck.
Misogyny should definitely be gatekept out of Goth; we shouldn’t let misogynist music appropriate the label
@@miriamreinhardt8939Absolutely, sorry if you misunderstood me, I just don’t understand why posers refer to us as gatekeepers for simply correcting them. They use it like it’s derogatory or something.
A bit of gatekeeping is in order. Not the obnoxious "woke" gatekeeping that has taken over every subculture with the younger generations (20 something's trying to say Anti Nowhere League shouldn't be allowed in punk comes to mind)...but a reasonable gatekeeping to maintain the purity of the essential elements of the subculture enough that it isn't completely bastardized.
@@liamschaaf1608 .......You sound like a republican. Which is not very punk, I must say.
Off topic but I’m obsessed with your necklace
Gate keeping is quality control. I hate what my generation (I'm 23) has done to the word "goth".
honestly tho, im almost 20 and sure, even though im trying to get more into the scene (amongst others)- the younger ones are turning goth into something it's really not and it's so??? frustrating???
Thanks for this, it needed to be said. As an elder goth 80’s goth music is what I listen to having been in my 20’s in that decade when it hit my country. 🖤
Sometimes I do wonder if some of those articles are trolling.
I used to be a huge fan of Marilyn Manson, and I have always been a fan of goth music. I feel like even his fans never considered him goth?
Same with Korn and Corpse. None of them - or their fans - ever said they are goth? I think Marilyn Manson was much more associated with "emo" (pop-punk) music, and Corpse too is more akin to that crowd.
Or maybe I am too much out of the loop, since I am not using social media as much as I used to be. Very good video, I am just struggling to understand how anyone could associate Lip Peep or Corpse with goth music. Emo-rap and metal-rap are words I heard used much more.
I absolutely loved the facial expressions when reading the rap lyrics aloud btw!
EDIT: TH-cam played 'Our Subculture Is Not Your Hashtag' from 2019 after this video, and you mentioned goth rappers. So there are actually people believing in it :/ weird
From what a lot of people have been telling me about Corpse, it's not so much he who refers to himself as goth but those who listen to him - same soundcloud ilk. Marilyn Manson was kind of grandfathered in by some goths as adjacent but never considered goth, more of a novelty but never Korn.
@C J I'm not shitting on them, I'm saying that they're not Goth. This video is to illustrate that they are in fact part of the rap culture which is entirely different from the goth culture both musically and historically.
@C J the whole point is goth and rap are two entirely different genres of music that are also attached to two very strong subcultures.
@C J the point wasn't to highlight good rappers the point was to show separation between goth music, The Goth subculture and those who advertise themselves as 'goth rappers ' who all by the way subsequently exist on SoundCloud hence my mentioning the platform.
Forgot about switchblade symphony thank ya
You're very welcome.
They're the best.
I love 'An Eye for the Main Chance' by Rosetta, such a great song. Thanks for reading it to clear my ears from the other shit you read.
It's like the bite of pickled ginger to cleanse your palate between sushi's!
Rosetta Stone is definitely an underrated goth band.
@@angelabenedict I love that analogy!
My favorite from them is Subterfuge.
There is a reason why I prefer Bandcamp, it's a good way to avoid shit like that and find real goth artists.....
Bandcamp really needs more love.
Angela you are a book of knowledge of the GOTH culture you know exactly what you are talking about the GOTH scene you are amazing 😁👍
Whoever disliked this video doesn't understand the point at all. *eye roll*
Butthurt posers disliked this video.
I think the problem here chief is that this article mislabeled emo rap as goth because of course they did. What's worse is that trap metal gets shoved in with emo rap a lot of the time, which kind of brings back the whole argument to people confusing goth with emo and metal since forever.
Don’t forget “Baby Goth” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Gross.
Industry plant. Doesn’t count
No cap: Goths shouldn't allow these people to have careers if they're posers that are fucking up an entire scene.
@@Andrew-vn6ym if anything, that counts more because it's even worse, and evidence of fucked this situation is.
@@vallisdaemonumofficial exactly!
Excellent video, Angela! We need more people in the community speaking out against this “goth rap” abomination. I’ve actually been called an “elitist gatekeeper” on social media for bringing up and suggesting actual goth music and they don’t even like it 🙄 It’s insane to me how they openly disrespect the core of the subculture but so badly want the label.
I speak out about it daily.
Terms like "gatekeeper" and "elitist" are frequently misused to allow horrible hipsterwave bands in... I am not surprised that people are now also using them to let in this goth-rap baloney too.
@@nightchild4468 When I come across this, I tell people too but I always get sh*t for it smh
I have been reluctant for around 2 years to look up goth stuff because I see things like this and it makes me feel really bad..
I hear Lil Peep and think of those weird little yellow marshmallow candy birds 😂
Ikr?🤣
Or Twitter's baby....
Closest thing I can think of to an actual goth rap would be Andrew Eldritch doing the spoken word section at the end of Under The Gun (last Sisters of Mercy single, 1993).
Thats pretty interesting
Switchblade Symphony has some bits of vocals that to me at least sound like Tina Root is rapping. It's not surprising considering their huge Trip-Hop influences, which on itself is a genre heavily influenced by the wider Hip-Hop culture.
I wouldn't be opposed to someone bringing Rap and ACTUAL goth music together, but that's not what the artists people currently refer to as "Goth Rap" are doing.
I have been waiting for u to make this video for 4 years this how video is a mood
From the top of my head the band "Linea aspera" has some violent lyrics, but I don't really think it counts as "evidence" to claim that goth music as a whole promotes violence and drug use. Alot of goth bands base their lyrics on poetry they've written that they then put music to. There's a strong literary background aswell. So boiling it down to being about one theme doesn't really work when there's so many genres and sub genres that fits under the goth umbrella. I just don't understand why they feel the need to slap goth on things to make it sellable? Why not create something of your own. And I aslo don't get if they think it's a bad thing or a cool thing, depends on the day I guess lol.
The article doesn't exist any more so either they purge posts after a certain amount of time has passed or they realised it was bunk.
The article was older when I found it and it was deleted within a month or so of this video.
It doesn't help when MGK, the Kardashians and MGK'S girlfriend keep promoting it as well with their, "Oh, I'm so Goth," cringe. Plus the whole, "spooky" season trend where everyone thinks they're Goth just because they listen to Lil Peephole and watch American Horror Story lol. Ugggh it's people like that that make me lose interest in my favorite holiday lol.
Angela, thanks for calling these crazy things out. I have to just ignore it or I'll go crazy. Your work is appreciated.
"...and a frying pan." I had to pause. I needed a moment before I could continue and hear anything because every time I think I am done, another giggle fit begins.
That level of knowledge in the article can only come from an injury.
Agreed. Glad you’re bringing this up!
Preach sister! Although I am guilty of buying the now easily available spooky home decor 😅
It's easily available, now?? Cool!
Videos like this are exactly why my socials are mainly posts of me linking people to your channel. You always hit the nail on the head! So wise and informative, getting the record set straight. At nearly 34 and having been in the gothic subculture pretty much since I was four (not even kidding, I still have photos of me dressed in all black on my first day of kindergarten lol) and moving through the decades, I'm constantly getting into arguments with people who think they know me better than I know myself. "Oh well goth is more of an umbrella term to describe a changing Era and is basically just emo now." ... like you said about this rap business, they don't sound anything alike, in any capacity. A point I often make is if one were to walk into a record store, you wouldn't find any of the bands I listen to in the rap or country or emo section. They're their own genres, keep them separate. And now these emo resurgence people are trying to say 80s traditional goth bands are basically just emo bands because, they're emo and they like one or two songs by them... if you want the biggest difference between the two, goths don't try to claim something is ours just because we like it. I'll listen to other 80s or 90s music or even 70s rock without trying to claim it as goth just because I resonate with the gothic subculture, I still acknowledge they are their own genres. But to tell an emo kid that something they like, which sounds nothing like their specific kind of music, doesn't qualify as "emo" music makes them cry. But they're emo and would do that anyway, I guess lol.
Oh my gawd! This shit is almost hilarious. Almost. Goth is older than these wet nosed babies. As far as corpse husband, he never ever claimed to be Goth. I used to listen to his horror narrations. He suddenly got big. He never ever said his music is Goth. He said his music came from deep depression and anxiety. He explained the egirls song. He said the song came from his sudden popularity. He avoids his face been seen. No one knows what he looks like. But these people who know nothing about goth but the Goth tag on him. I used to like him, but he has stopped his horror narrations because of health issues. He has several horrible medical conditions. He has major gard issues. A lot of people flock to his videos because of his insane low voice. I wish the best for him.
Now on to the article. Goth is new but it's an old animal? Which is it? I remember goth bands in the 1980s. The Cure anyone? They were my first exposure to Goth. I remember seeing their video for the first time. I believe the video was Lullaby and I was hooked. Who what this strange man in red lipstick and hair that was wild? It was like Prince's music and Prince. It became a drug to me. Music was my drug. Goth music isn't about rage and other shit normal fucks want to tag onto it. Goth is more than that. Goth is seeing beauty in the dark and other things normal folks don't care for or fear. Now, its became popular for these assholes to slap Goth on every fucking thing that they don't understand. Nor care too. The other people mentioned. I never fucking heard of them. Their music sounds like fetish porn to be honest. Goth girls ha vcd e became a fetish to fuckers who don't understand consent. They think Goth girls are the best targets because we're already damaged goods. But, this isn't nothing new. Back in the 1990s I had to keep jocks off me because I was a fetish. It was like swatting flies away. I remember one of our Goth men getting into a fist fight with a jock because the jock got to touchy with one of us girls. Marilyn Manson and Korn are not Goth. Period. MM is a shock rocker. He used the Goth image to shock 1990s America and it fucking worked. I remember his tainted love video he had Goth Thug on the license plate of the care and dressed like Goth gang bangers which rubbed me the wrong way. MM will use any image to piss off people. It's like the shit he's pulling with Keyne West with the church shit. He has some serious accusations his way and he's trying his best to say look at me. I'm not the bad guy. Using MM as example of what Goth is by the media is infuriating. Not to mention the public opinion on Goth in general. They view goths as violent, depraved, depressed, psychotic, fetishist and ect. When real goths speak up saying that's not how we are, we are told to shut up. Stop being fucking gatekeepers. Well, my response is fuck you. I've been part of the Gothic community while most of these mother fucker where in diapers or not even a twinkle in their parents eyes. I've felt with the insane amount of harassment, bulling and threats. I've been fetishized and abused by these fuckers. Now these fuckers want our name? I think not. Rap and Goth are not sisters, not even friends. So I'm going to say this loud and fucking clear. I'm a fucking Gatekeeper. You better have the right pass to enter or you'll be put on blast. Signed an Old School Goth who's sick of their shit.
Never heard the word bitch so much in my life lol
Anybody who is into violence, especially towards women, and drug use is most definitely not Goth. I was a Punk Rocker in my young teens here in London, and then moved into the Goth scene as a natural evolution around 1980. I have never known any Goth to be violent or a Smackhead. Rap is rap, and it sure ain't Goth.
Drug addiction is a mental illness and Goths are not immune to it. Anyone can become a drug addict, not all Goths are the same.
Is this a joke? Violence towards women is what every shitty man is capable of. It's a crime that exists in EVERY country, done by every race, men of every social status, every imaginable like and dislike, every subculture. A rich doctor will do it just as a successful businessman will, just like some guy in a metal band will. I'm surprised at this naivety at your age and it smacks of "If I didn't see it. It doesn't happen". If any really young girl is reading. Please don't think "alternative" guys are in any way different and you're safe with absolutely all of them. Male violence towards women is a global problem. It's a problem of male entitlement and unchecked aggression, not of what kind of music he's into.
@@Maialeen I have yet to meet an abusive Goth boy or man, and I have been in the subculture for two decades. Try again.
@@darkblue9314 OK butthurt troll.....
@@Maialeen - That is just a tad hysterical, and appears to paint all men as predatory monsters. Please don't include me in your propaganda. I also notice that you fail to mention the not uncommon problem of female violence towards men, or do you not believe such violence occurs? This is not a gender war. Violence against anybody is abhorrent, no matter who is doing the hitting.
Angela, as always, I greatly appreciate you speaking out about this for all of us goth folk! Well said, indeed! 🥰🖤 Much love to you and yours!
I'm sorry but when you said "uwu" out loud, I nearly died. Those songs are terrible. I'm so sorry for the goths.
I feel like there's a way you're meant to say it. I just don't know what that way is lol.
Korn... lmfao I fucking hate Korn. There are ZERO standards now because standards are gatekeeping! Gatekeep, people. Gatekeep as hard as you can.
Fellow gatekeeper, here. Carry on!
I gatekeep often.
Who are your favorite goth bands?
-Korn and Marilyn Manson! :D hahahahahahaha
That article is such a pain to read 😭
I’m very late to this video. I’m usually on this account just to watch youtube for fun. I unfortunately was someone people would call a “goth rapper”
I can’t believe I was so blind from everything, I can see how something like this is FARRRR from goth now. Thank you!
I physically face slapped (not palmed) when you said the bit about Lil whatever the fuck they're called inventing goth. Dear Lord. Who are these people?!
We are gonna be fighting for our identity forever arent we :(
The Cure, and Susie started in the 70’s 🎃🖤
Joy Division and Bauhaus, too!
@@Anonymous-wb3nz yes! I wrote my comment as she was saying it and hit reply instead of cancel. Lol! I cannot delete my comments for some reason.
@@ghoulgoil5029 Hey, your comment is completely valid, too!
I was missing you..and you posted. Yay! 🤘
“Hernia biscuits” 💀💀hahahaha
I was a babybat back when the goth scene where I lived was dying..
Though there was a group of babybats below the group I associated with..
I was lucky to catch the last breaths of a thriving scene though I had a lot to learn then, learned a lot after and am still learning!
I claim Goth as a label because that's who I am at heart.
The music speaks to me and is what i am mostly drawn to.
I dress very dark witchy hippy with a goth twist.
But I am not an 'Ubergoth' 90% of the time in the way I look.
How I look though combined with the musical taste I have (while a lot veers away from gothic rock).
Says who I am.
But only because I was open to learning. And I am grateful to those that showed me the way.
If you are recommended Goth music, told that Goth is a music subculture and are not willing to listen; you are not Goth and have no excuse.
If you adopt the looks and themes.
But if you refuse to learn what Goths are only too happy to share (It is not gatekeeping!)....
Stop claiming a label that has nothing to do with what you claim to represent and find a new name for yourself.
Sincerely, a now Eldergoth who listened and learned!!!!
(I am 37 years old and don't justify myself to anybody, I am also accepted for who I am!)
Ooh, you start the comparison with one of my favourites;
Switchable Symphony!
Not even having listened, the SoundCloud shit can't compare!
Edit; it didn't.
Shock don't make it goth!
Now onto your 3rd choice,
Faith and the Muse.
My other favourite..
SoundCloud cRAP won't compare...
Faith and the Muse;
Fade and Remain
Shattered in Aspect
The Burning Season ..
And...
In Dreams of Mine..
A song about, .... drugs?
No.
A song about cats. Fellow beings.
Spirituality.
There is no real comparison...
Those that won't look any further, find another label
You. Are. Not. Goth!
Last comment, thank you Angela for this video, standing up for Goth.
From, a Goth who listened to learn and claims the label because I cared to learn and it fits me.
To those who won't listen or learn, we are not gatekeepers, in my experience we are more than happy, enthusiastic even to share, if you won't take the open hand willing to share,
You Are Not Goth!
Can you be goth if you’re deaf?
@@neurotika no, since Goth is MUSIC based. A Goth is someone who enjoys Goth music.
This "writer" SHOULD be fired for failing to do actual research, and for spreading false information about the subculture. He failed to do his job.
Unless he’s part of a disinformation campaign about the subculture, of course. As someone who’s worked as an editor, I’d definitely sack the bastard who wrote this piece, it’s the hallmark of a hack.
Wow Rosetta Stone and Faith in the Muse are true poets
OMG I grew up and the first song I learned to play on the guitar was "The Luxury of Tears" by Christian Death.....wasn't aware GOTH was something new
Thank you for this video. People need to be educated.
You're very welcome, I'm happy you enjoyed it!
I dont see myself as a goth but i wear all black and listen to the music.
It still hurts what some people do with the goth subculture
You are a Goth my friend. If you like Goth music, you are a Goth. Welcome.
@@nightchild4468 i dunno 😅
Tbh i like being called goth
@@darkerthanblack8897 🖤
@@darkerthanblack8897 Dont feel pressured to label yourself, but thats how it happened for me! I started off not thinking i was goth, just outside the mainstream, then people started to call me goth and I felt bad so I started to listen to the music and I loved it.
If you like the music and dress the part. Most of all have the mentally of Goth. Chance are, you're Goth. But, you don't have to label yourself. I'm a Goth who adores Prince. Never let anyone tell you who you are. 😊
love this video!! don't think I've ever seen you this mad before.... love your passion for goth
We need more people like her in the subculture. I myself am a proud gatekeeper.
Ah..if only they latched onto the Emo title
The truth is, a lot don't know what emo is at all, let alone goth. I usually defend the emo scene a lot but as I grew to love goth music, I definitely see how both genres are incredibly overlooked, misrepresented, and underappreciated. Hence why I always try to make it known what emo, punk, and goth actually are, since they all deserve recognition
Wow thanks for reminding me to listen to Soverign. It's so funny how people mistook numetal for original goth, and now numetal was referred to as the original with soundcloud rap being the "new evolution"
I met someone new at my school and they asked "what music do you like, lil peep right?" I didn't mind, just thought that was a bit random, but I didn't know people associated that guy with goth
You should educate them on what Goth actually is. Who knows, they might like the music....
@@nightchild4468 we don't talk now but if I meet anyone else who asks, or who tries to call me their fucking "goth bitch" for that matter like in these lyrics, I will
@@_noctivagus_ keep speaking out, for all of us.
I noticed that goth used to be outcasts but now people are turning "goth" to fit in and its all so weird
The curse of the internet fad.
Loved this video so much!! it is ridiculous how much ignorant stuff and misconceptions are thrown around about our subculture. I get awful messages by people who fetishize goths and have to block a ton of creeps that sexually harass me and friends. Thank you for this video 🦇
"Hernia biscuits" 💀😂
Less than one minute in and all I can say is FUCKING THANK YOU!!!
I've never been a goth myself, just a fly on the wall for over a couple decades...but still. I used to enjoy going to clubs on occasion when they existed. Regularly when I lived in a town that had a weekly goth night.
Btw Bauhaus were amazing on Saturday on the 30th of October in London
This is a touchy subject for some, but I think you nailed it.
Off topic: I love your top 😊!
The mainstream doesn't care at all about the reality of, well, anything, but about guiding people towards consuming certain products. It's like when the teen magazines told the kids that to be a Punk they needed to get leather jackets with metal studs, and get particular accessories, and all that BS, when in reality the bands which were at the front of the movement were just kids wearing whatever they had, as simple as that.
And now we had a new generation of kids wanting to be "rebels" and "edgy", and whom have also been terribly misguided by the mainstream to believe the brand of stupid self destructive (and also false, insincere) hedonism performers as these "goth rappers" represent/promote is the way to achieve that; to which they attach the term "goth" because it has been well established as a stereotype that being "a goth" is not something good boys and girls do, so it's all a massive BS scheme to exploit them.
Aside from that; I just discovered (completely by accident) Actors, Mental Discipline, and I would say Glass Apple Bonsai, but I don't know what you would or do think about them.
And aside from all that; your hair looks simply glorious like this. So beautiful!
I remember back in the day girl talk and shout was saying Avril Lavign was punk and that wearing ties as part of mainstream fashion was cool. Ummmm not unless you're in a DDlg relationship and that's private between consenting adults
@@FrankenFunder sorry, I don't know what "DDIg" means.
And what you point out is just another example of what I'm saying. It's just mercantilism appropriating cultural elements for a profit.
Thank you! I feel like this has gotten so out of hand that we cant take a step back and correct all of this in mainstream culture like it’s too far gone which is unfortunate since, whatever it is, it needs its own name that doesn’t have “goth” in the title
This reminds me of something I saw in the 80's.
My mother liked Country Music, she watched CMT all the time.
One night on a Variety Show some guys were on doing "The Redneck Rap" - it was a silly send up of an incompatible Music Form being imposed on another music form.
They were MOCKING this sort of attempt before it happened, with Goth it snuck in under the radar, the only thing for it is to mock those associations wherever they turn up.
Some lyrics should not be read without music and some not even with music. In Steampunk rap has become popular and has it's own 'Chap Hop' sub genre whose light hearted and comic themes are Steampunk related. I can't think of a Goth equivalent, but I hope if it existed it would have lyrics more tasteful and imaginative than the ones you read out,. I hope you recover from the experience. 😎
Chap Hop owes a lot to the English music hall tradition.
First of all -
THANK YOU for being the goth warrior you are 🙏
I'm so grateful someone is speaking up and educating others when it comes to goth.
You are so needed in this ongoing misinformed monologue...
Because let's face it -
It's not a debate when it's just banging one tone deaf drum... 🙄
So thank you 🙏
I really just feel like crying and screaming when you read the horrible sexistic misogynistic lyrics encouraging sexual abuse against women -
Masquerading as goth music -
When it's REALLY NOT!
So not only do women have to deal with MORE ABUSE THAN WE ALREADY DO -
We goths have to defend our subculture EVEN MORE THAN BEFORE ‼️😡🤬
Hi, this is just the latest in various forces in music trying to expand the Goth category way, way too much. Thanks for defending the boundaries and not knuckling under to the false "anyone can do anything" vibe that is being pushed today.
Loved this video.
She speaks the truth.
As a Lil peep fan, he’s definitely not goth. He’s usually considered to be under Emo rap, not “goth rap”. Anyone who thinks he’s goth knows nothing about the subculture. Everyone misuses the word goth now when they would really fall under e-kids, emos or just alt. It’s sad to see they know nothing.
Anyone who considers Lil Peep "goth rap" knows little to nothing about goth or rap.
This is coming from a fan of both rap and goth (though I prefer goth).
My heart almost stopped when you mentioned wallflower! Serpentine Gallery is such a beautiful album!
I don't know who the other rappers are that were mentioned (I maybe have heard of Lil Peep?), but I can't believe that article called Corpse goth rap. Corpse doesn't call himself goth and does not promote his music as goth, so that writer pulled that out of their ass, because as we well know, most people don't seem to understand the difference between "dark themes" and "goth" in the least. Also, as another commenter mentioned, the particular Corpse song you read lyrics for was a bit of a literal joke (it's packed full of anime references, for example, that are rather silly if you get them). Not saying it doesn't have problematic lyrics, but it wasn't something Corpse was trying to make as "goth rap." NB: not trying to be a stan, I'm just a goth who also enjoys Corpse's horror and gaming content and has listened to some of his songs, and that article is bullshit.
I love Corpse's horror content, I actually first started following him when he was just a horror narrator on youtube. I haven't listened to his music too much but yeah, he has never claimed to be goth or to have done goth music, some of his songs are very tongue in cheek. I think he seems like a sweet person.
The article is literal trash, I don't know most of the newer artists mentioned but judging by the state of research in this article in general, not sure most of the artists and bands ever claimed to be goth music.
Absolutely Joy Division.. they were the first band to use Goth in their marketing too.
No matter how off the rails it goes…I know can always count you on to set people straight and tell people what’s up! 🖤 u my fellow 42 yr old goth!!