Blade Steel Tier List
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ค. 2019
- cedric-ada-store.creator-spri...
Good gravy its bricky on things
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docs.google.com/spreadsheets/... - Full steel testing list for my cut test videos, free to all.
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Damn bruh. Your dedication to steel knowledge is absolutely and uniquely unparalleled. And we all appreciate it. Cheers man. Saitama for Life.
@Jacob Dawson far from clueless man, the list is partially based on subjective preference.
@Jacob Dawson yep, just sayin that there's an element of preference in what properties you prefer, every steel has different properties, and people prefer different things, edge retention isn't the only factor that determines the steels perceived value, there is also rust resistance, chemical makeup that determines whether an edge rolls or chips, those differences also determine the type of edge that some super steels prefer, some are toothier, ease of sharpening is a factor, it's a lot. This particular list isn't the be all end all, just one dudes take, but I just wanted to validate the stance he's not clueless, because he has done a lot of testing, and also clarified a lot of what I said just know throughout the video. I dunno man
I'm just impressed you have used all of them. A lot of these were "never heard of it" for me.
surprised 14c28n was so low. i really like it
I agree. It is a budget steel but it's strong, corrosion resistant and holds a decent edge
It has rather low edge retention. Unless you just enjoy spending time sharpening, it's a rather important factor. If I'm processing an animal, I want to spend more time cutting than sharpening. There's just so many steels that do toughness and stainlessness about as well that it can't rank but so high.
nice to see people say they appreciate budget steels and test them instead of saying they're "barely adequate". Yes because we all need s90v to open letters and cut apples and cheese at work.
This video has an insane amount of valuable knowledge for the knife scene and I come back to it every so often when I feel like buying a new blade. Thanks for making it!
This is a brilliant idea. Love tier lists from fighting games and CCGs
I knew youd love it Tony😃
Awesome video. Thanks mate. Couldn't ask for more. Love the different / official fonts and presentation. Kudos to you!!!
What kind of idiot buys stainless steel tweezers? The MINIMUM steel you should buy for tweezers is 52100 SPRING STEEL. As for nail clippers I only use CPM CRUWEAR for superior impact resistance.
Damn brother, sounds like your trimming T-Rex toes!🙃
I buy SS tweezers for hygiene purposes, I don't care about it springing I prefer to apply the pressure by squeezing if it gets me SS
Ah yes, I prefer to go with the 1738femboy-resistant clippers.
Nick Shabazz reviewed a comb in S35VN 😂
After buying a ton of knives and living in Florida, these are my priorities in steel. No rust and doesn't chip......... I don't care if it's hard to sharpen or easy. I've figured out the sharpening skills. Thank you for your hard work and dedication.
1095 below 440c? That just pisses me off, lmao. Awesome video, man.
2 years deep into your chanel, seen all your content, but this video never stops amazing me! Constantly come back to the last frame to validate my purchases (little ashamed, but sincere!). Thanks once again for the great service to the Knife Community!
Personally I would have put 14c28n in the C Tier. It has some benefits over other steels like D2 or N690 you might be unaware of, as does 12c27. Both of those steels excell at thin geometries. I have a Manly Wasp in 12c27 that is 8/1000 (0.2mm) behind the edge. A lot of steels wouldn`t be able to handle that, but the Sandvik steels do.
thank you !
I agree that the Sandvik steels are good stuff. 13c is the best one they make for his purposes, but 14c is a close second just slightly more stainless at the expense of sharpness. You gotta realize he values wear/abrasion resistance over everything else. He's all about edge retention. That said, any steel with the hardness to support it benefits from thinner geometry. literally if you look at an equation for edge retention the biggest factor is geometry, even more so than the type of steel.
Definately agree!!
14c28n heat treated properly in thin blades (folders, slicers) can take a very keen edge, good steel I like it.
Edge retention is one criteria but not all SS can take a keen, ultra polished apex.
It would be nice to test a straight razor made out of it, where many SS go in crisis (I prefer carbon steel for razors).
Sandwik and Böhler make good stuff.
🇮🇹
14c is an amazing steel for slicey 3in blades. Extremely well balanced for an edc folder.
I'm so happy. Thank you for making this 😂. It's hilarious looking at these comments where almost nobody gets the reference
I can't agree on your grade for 14c28n....I put it slightly ahead of nitro v. It doesn't warp like nitro v and it is slightly cleaner when finishing the knife.... and it's not just me either...knife steel nerds rates it higher than Nitro v and have rated it their favourite budget to mid range steel!
This is a good idea, very good way to check steel at a glance
NeeeeEEEEEEeeeerrrrrd
Great content Pete, just a couple of things, considering edc and knives you actually use, I feel it would have been really useful to employ a two axis rating matrix with edge retaining/toughness and corrosion resistant qualities, this would have allowed others to interpret your experience with knife steels and balance it with their needs.
I'm from a different part of Australia than you, but there are some words you pronounce in completely different ways, I find very difficult to interpret.....like (@17:44 prodigiously)
Keep up the good work, thanks for sharing
Love it, appreciate your dedication and presentation, sometimes gets new through the day. I found it interesting the disparity you made between Vanadis 4E and CPM-4V, because they are supposed to be identical compositions IE 20CV, M390.
If I knew how to make a Knife Video Tier List, your steel review videos would be at the top
Fantastic video and a perfect reference with concise explanations for each ranking. This will now be my go-to video link to send to anyone that asks me about blade steels for now on. REALLY appreciate you uploading this, Pete. To borrow a line from AdvancedKnifeBro: this is the Trucks Balls.
Thank you so much for doing this, this is the first time I’ve really understood why one steel is better than another, super kudos
Steel geeking at its best! Cheers Pete!
Very cool. I’m fairly new to knife collecting, but I am lucky enough to be able to afford some higher end knifes. Your videos are very informative and helpful I believe you have a very broad knowledge of metallurgy I appreciate time and effort very much. Thanks a lot.
Great video been waiting for this video for ever! Thanks for the upload !
I checked your rating for K390 Spyderco para2 before I ordered one.Thanks for making this video and all the others too.
Your disregard for M4 angers me.
Love ya Pete.
Agreed, a good heat treat on m4 is unbelievable
I see you tend to prefer the high carbide steels in particular. They are great steels, but I feel that for most applications they are way too lacking in toughness. I find the Cru-wear, V4E, M4, V4 to be a great sweet spot for edge retention and toughness balance, myself. If you are using a high edge retention steel like Rex121, you are going to have chipping issues if your bevel angle gets too low. If you are comparing 40 degree bevels in those steels, it's all well and good, but drop down to 30 degrees (inclusive) and it's a whole different story. Toughness is more important than I think many give it credit. Of course, personal preference and application plays a massive role in this. I also don't understand a lot of your ranking disparity between steels that are nearly and effectively identical. A good example being 4v and V4E.
cruwear is a beautiful steel imo. as is magnacut, it’s essentially completely rust proof 4v steel, so it’s got the toughness and edge retention of cruwear with no worry about rust
@@acid6urns Yeah, most of the knives I am making these days are Magnacut. Larren Thomas really made an amazing steel! And Magnacut can be heat treated to 64-65 Rockwell, which gives it the edge retention of a lot of the high chromium carbide steels but with double the toughness. Cruwear/Z-Wear still slightly outperforms Magnacut, and so I still often use it when I don't care about the level of stainless that Magnacut provides.
3v is also an amazing steel if you get it at 63+ Rockwell.
@@joshcoar7386magnacut is so easy to sharpen, i have a spyderco native in it and it was honestly baffling. i also have a cruwear pm2 and that was also ridiculously easy to sharpen. i’m a big fan of the medium edge retention high toughness steels. i do own some k390 which is ridiculously high edge retention and decent enough toughness, but i haven’t tried it much yet. i’m a huge fan of traditional slipjoint knives as well, and i also like a lot of the very simple carbon/stainless steels in those. case tru sharp and well treated 440a on rough ryder knives may not have outstanding edge retention but the edges im able to get on those steels is absolutely INSANE.
Nice video👍🏻 I’m just getting into knives and had been going by benchmade’s list on like edge,toughness,corrosion. Would be nice if you did a list kinda like that for noobies
Great work this is an excellent reference point that I'm sure I'll use and share a lot
I love the steel ranking videos and is why I am a patreon for this channel.
Awesome as always. It does look like you're taking guff for your 52100 ranking. It's simple and it rusts but at 62-64 hrc it's an amazing steel.
Is it brittle at all? I actually have a Cold Steel Drop Forged Boot Knife in that steel, and I'm curious. I'm not that worried about the rust because it's a coated blade.
Agree with you on almost all of these! 👍only one I outright and strongly disagree with is 52100! Should be a little higher imo. In my observations there are only a handful of factory production knives with this steel and based on that, keep your mind open when you finally get a properly heat treated custom optimised for cutting in 52100. I've seen some amazing hunting knives in this steel. Several Finnish Smith's also do wonders with it. 😊
Run around 62-63, it's a wonderful steel for edc. I've used mine extensively for cutting cardboard this last month and it still shaves hair. It's a great steel, there's a reason it's one of Sal's favorites
Another good comparison would be the same steels from different manufacturers. They all use different processes with the steels which has a tremendous impact on the performance of the product.
Additionally, the sharpening process for each steel will have an affect on the performance as well. So, another comparison would be great.
Very cool video! I’ll haven’t tried a lot of the steels you ranked. I’ll have to play around with it
Gooooood Looooooord!!!! I had no idea there were so many useable steels for cutlery. My lands I'm lost.
I think you bias far too heavily toward edge retention when judging knives. Some of these steels will snap when you drop them. Some people are doing more than cutting tomatoes and cardboard.
I kind of agree with you, but there are some caveats here.
Maxamet, for instance, is basically as brittle as glass and I just don't want there to be a day where I'll need to sharpen it, but, it's edge retention is just god tier. It does not dull whatsoever.
Feel the same for D2. Don't know why it's hyped as much but I feel like that steel is basically good for nothing. Retention might be good for cheap price but, literally chips away as you sharpen. The only stable d2 manufacturers in my book are Steel Will and CJRB, wherein atleast their performance is consistent across multiple knives. Whereas knives like the infamous Ontarios in D2 are so inconsistent that you buy 10 Rats, all 10 will perform differently. I would much rather get the Aus8 versions of them.
I have only used like 3 of these steels to open boxes and cut string off my shirts but I SOME OPINIONS ON YOUR RANKINGS
I really enjoy your videos and this is great wealth of information... i know this is a old video ive seen case has up'd theyre steel in a couple knifes i hope they continue because i really enjoy those trapper style of knife.
Interesting rankings! I can see your logic and basically agree with a lot of the choices, however since my personal use is more geared to fixed blades for bushcraft (though I also like folders), I would have had different priorities. It seems edge retention and stainlesses for folders were your main criteria (more than toughness or ease of sharpening, or ease/potential of heat treat, getting into the custom realm). I thought 10v and a11 were the same - can someone clarify? Also, thought 52100 would rank one higher. It seems you got much better wear resistance with 52100 than A2 (like 100 more cuts). Compared to other basic steels you tend to see in fixed blades (like 1095, O-1, or 5160, maybe even A2) 52100, I believe, has the most potential for bringing out different qualities in the heat treat; I think it can be ran harder, while also remaining tough, and you tend to see it in custom knives (Winkler, comes to mind, though know he's moved on to 80cr I think...also some custom kitchen knives). Not sure if it is shallow hardening or takes well to differential heat treat (which can make for a tough core with a hard edge in a fixed blade) compared to others.
Great idea... S tier is of course awesome. Probably 95% agreement from me on the steels I've played with. I was eagerly awaiting the K390 placement. I might put it above Maxamet for the better toughness and maybe move a couple of other A tier steels around. The groupings look very solid.
I enjoyed the bejezus out of this. Thanks!
I was surprised that VG-10 couldn't crack into C tier. How about the Acuto 440 that Tangram uses? Is it enough of an improvement over 440C to reach the next tier?
I think ill do a similar video, although ill focus more on toughness and sharpenability based on fixed blade use, and i will have a LOT less steels on there. Good video, and good idea!
Great tier list. I probably would shift S110V up a bit personally, but then you are much more of an expert than I. Now to save and find knives in your S list.
Great list, definitely would've put 5160 in high c tier due to it's toughness and ease of honing in the field.
why is this channel so small i dont get it, are there so lil nerds out there? lovely job! this video is exactly how i had it in mind.
ofc its hard to rank steels as it all comes down to what you prefer, toughness 3v would shine, corrosion resistance lc200n wud be way higher..
i came to find myself care about these 2 a bit more then wear resistance as i like resharpening knives anyway ;] and realistic even s30v would keep a good edge for a week of hard use and who cant realisticly get to a sharpening source in a week time if they wanted to right. great vid tho!!
Great job, really enjoyed the video.
Would it be beneficial to record how much time it takes you to sharpen? That might give us an idea, when combined with cut test results of how "hard" the steels are to sharpen.
Now can you do a correlation based on this of knife steels that sit in a box for bragging rights versus ones that actually get used.
Lowballing the 52100. And I think Maxamet should be an S. 2nd highest wear resistance on the planet. I can see your points though, and how you were working the tiers. Fun video
True, also k390 up in the S
@@CJ-hw4zc I'm ok with it being the very top of the A tier, but I could see making it an S. Or move some of the A's to B, and some of the B's to C. I'd have to make my own tiers to sort it all out lol
I just added a Spydiechef to my collection and I love that LC200N steel so far!
Appreciate the video and all your effort it took to get here. Could you provide a download for your list,pretty please.
Loved this video! You should do another one ranking them by stainlessness, or another one based solely on edge retention.
This is a very, very, interesting presentation. Thanks.
Good list Pete. Wanted to add that N695 is the inferior steel to N690/N690Co due to its added cobalt - similar to a BDZ1 to BD1, but not to that extent. Agree not to pay too much for either 'N' steels. Surprised Maxamet wasn't in the top row though
Ive never been impressed with N690/CO. It just doesnt offer anything over much cheaper steels in my experience. 440C or perhaps VG-10 level edge holding, decent toughness but it rolls too much for my uses. Atleast thats the case with my Boker and LionSteel knives in it.
Fantastic table.
I suggest you revisit this given one year has lapsed and beyond. Good idea to provide criteria on each level so that you can provide slightly more objectiveness, otherwise this is great.
Keep in mind K390, A11 and CPM10V are all (practically) the same alloy.
The Molybdenum and Cobalt in K390 is probably just there to make it a High Speed steel: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_speed_steel which allows it to retain hardness at high heat (Red-Hardness), such as for use in drill bits. Different foundries have different PM processes, but the biggest difference between the three is probably going to be in the heat treat by the knife maker.
That is so cool!!, I agree with you mostly, except I would put 52100 higher and Haitch 1 lower lol, but great tier!!
Yes...52100 got hosed.
52100 is my favorite. Holds a shaving edge extremely well and beyond easy to sharpen. One of the best steels ever made imo
52100 is probably lower than it should be because it has a finicky heat treat that few companies really nail. It’s like benchmades 3v puuko. Great steel technically, buts it’s original heat treat was disappointing
Excellent video bro!!!!! Thank you from Canada!
Fine list (no hate) and I get that this is basically just edge retention and then other factors after, but I would have liked to have seen a more overall judgement and including price, how easy something is to sharpen, how stain resistant, etc. as a bit more of a factor.
This is your best video. Can you make this an annual thing?
Nice video! I would prob put 52100 slightly higher in C and I could definitely see S35VN and XHP being A tier as well
Very informative video, even though I'm a few years late. Where would you put M398, s60v, and Magnacut?
can you do an updated tier list?
I agree with you on the no name steels. Though I have been slightly impressed by the Ozark Trail folders believe it or not. Not a bad knife to beat the crap out of.
My first pocket knife was an Ozark trail and it got really sharp. That was back in 2004 or 2005. It has a wood handle and recurve blade.
Informative & helpful, especially coming from a guy whose obsession with practical testing makes his opinions on blade steels as reliable as anyone else in the knife geek sphere. I was surprised with a few of the results, like seeing Elmax rank higher than S110V; the latter has performed well in terms of edge retention, & Elmax has issues with corrosion resistance, at least according to a couple isolated TH-cam tests I've seen. Maybe separate tiers would be appropriate for these steels in terms of application... i.e. folders & fixed blades. Toughness isn't as important for folders, while edge retention & stainless properties clearly are.
Outstanding video mate!
Like your list Pete. Well reasoned. 🙂
Awesome video! My new steel bible.
This is a very valuable video for referencing.
That A tier got pretty packed!
If you just wanted a blade for chopping and batoning through tough hard knotty wood that won’t chip or snap after years of use what is the best to choose? 5160? I’m considering the Ontario SP 50 Bowie or 53 Bolo.
Something I’ll be happy to beat on rather than a collector closet princess.
It needs to be very reliable and last a long time at processing wood.
Open to tomahawks and hatchets in the toughest steels if necessary. Thanks
Based on edge retention I agree, for hunting vanadis4E, M4, Elmax, cruwear and m390 variants maybe. Everything else in A and S is useless in my opinion. For camping and such I would limit myself to 3v, 4v, elmax, sleipner, cruwear, A2, 80crv2 and even though I’ve not had very good experience based on other people maybe M4, large chopper I would limit myself to the tough low edge retention easy to sharpen steels and everything else for folders. The A and S tiers seem great until you have to reprofile them or take out a large chip.
SInce you often note that the Buck BOS Heat Treated 420HC is a notch above, perhaps you should differentiate on your chart with a 420HC and a Buck BOS 420HC. Thanks for all your hard work!
Do you have any experience with K720? I'm looking at traditional bushcraft knives under $160, and I'm looking at the Casstrom No. 10 in K720, the Enzo Trapper 95 in 01 or n690, or the Lionsteel m4 in M390. Is K720 more wear resistant than O1?
It's hard to find information on Bohler K110. Any thoughts? I've got a Maxace Goliath with that steel and feel it's around D2 or just below.
Ver helpful vid, thanks for that.
Have you come across MV-58? Supposed to be similar to Z60 🤔
I can tell a lot of this is based on the specific knives and not the steels. That is to say, much of this is going to be based on the heat treatment where you can find 440c from kershaw being pretty meh but from Buck 440c or older Bokers that stuff is really another tier up from what you'd get with Kershaw. And even then, the Kershaw stuff might come out different based on where it was made (US vs China) etc etc. So while it's neat to see this list I'd say the most important thing is to look at the steel in question when applied to a specific knife or manufacturer. Just seeing something like the difference between M390 from WE (which is an awesome maker and the steel is great) compared to M390 from Adam Purvis can really be eye opening and goes to show there is more to it than just the name (especially with stuff like D2 where CJRB, Civivi, and Steelwill are all producing it with mixed results).
I'm satisfied with your tier list. I personally would rate edge retention then toughness then rust resistance , but thats just me. You can only rate them based on your own experience ( lot more than mine ) & the priorities for your use. Overall very informative , thanks.
I agree. The only thing is, that if you rate by edge retention, or toughness, or rust resistance, then you would have three different tier lists. For example, in my experience I have a knife made out of O1 that holds an edge better than some of 8cr13mov. But it’s more rust resistant than the O1.
there's a couple kershaws I have. one in 6055 & the other in 4030TIKVT. where do these sit in tier?
😵💫🙄 Back watching this again. 🧐 Well organized data. 💯
I have a knife with s30v and it has held up very well and I am very rough on it I have swam in the gulf with no rust and it holds an edge very well
blade steel tier list ❌
edge retention tier list ✅
Nice. Next thing we need is a legiiiIIIIIIIIiiiiiiit knife bushcraft review
Need an updated list!
Great video idea loved it
Curious where Hap40 and Superblue would rank in your estimation?
Only one question about it. Why is 4v so far away from vanadis 4e , since they are so similar?
@Event Horizons I have since tried both. It depends on the heat treatment and geometry of the blade. If the 2 steels are treated the same and ground thin, then the difference can be negligable. This is my opinion, from my experience so far. I am no expert. Please take it only for what it is.
@Event Horizons You are right. It is better to enjoy the knives that we have already than trying to figure out which is the next super steel addition to the collection.
14c28n is better than D2. I was looking at blade steels for a chef knife im going to make and I was surprised to see that 14c28n is the cheapest stainless steel material I could find. Not the best I could find, but literally the cheapest. I carried just one knife, a Kershaw OD-1, as my EDC for 9 years in 14c28n. It works great with a thin edge and was produced for razor blades.
Chromium carbides make a larger grain steel. 14c29n takes a very fine edge.
Have you considered doing cut tests for ZT's CPM-20CV now that it's their main steel? I remember when their S35VN performed poorly and I'm curious how they would do with CPM-20CV. Would also love to see a cut test for CPM-20CV with the Bos heat treat which you can find on SK Blades editions of the 110 called the Silver Fox.
Josh W check out my zt0479 review - thats got cut test in it 😊
@@CedricAda Thanks for the info. It looks like their CPM-20CV underperformed but not as dramatically as their S35VN. I suspect they may run their steels softer than other manufacturers to make them more durable for hard use but honestly that's at best an amateur's guess and at worst a fan's excuse.
@@CedricAda and I think you mean ZT0470
From the tests I've seen it performed well. It beat out Spyderco and Benchmade. Then again it was the ZT 456 which has an advantage in tests due to it's curved edge shape and that it's a shorter blade.
Noob question: where does S35VN fall? Is it part of something that is already there? Maybe I missed it. There are a lot of numbers on that screen.
I made my knife out of a 5cm length of 25mm D hex wrench, AISI S2 tool steel. Tough steel, easy to strop up, quite hard. Rusts. But it's great on a bushcraft knife. 55c but I think it takes on more carbon during forging. Convex edge is a plus.
i find it to be a very agreeable tiering and think it would be a useful chart for the less geeky knife buyer - provided they subsequently looked into "use-case" factors (stain-resistance, toughness and capability to sharpen).
CPM M4 is still my favorite. I love its edge holding and edge taking ability. I just get crazy sharp edges out of M4 and they have that sticky sharpness i really love and its toughness is all i could need for a folder.
It will stain or even rust if youre not careful but who cares. Its character.
If i could only have one steel id probably go with CTS XHP or 154 CM or even Elmax but for max performance M4 is my baby. CPM S110V and S90V will also work.
Dutch Bushcraft knives tested Maxamet against K390 and it outperformed it by quite a lot.
Hap 40 ? How does it rank
Is X50CRMOV15 good steel for kitchen knife, or in general?
Uhhh Petie, it's been 2 years can you please give us an updated list! I would like to know where S45vn stands. Thanks you are the best!
I wanna see aus10a
Have you updated this with Magnacut?
I have had great experience with O1 in my Randall Made, it is a great blade, high carbon so it will rust, but it will take a beating. I love s30, s35 and 3v. I have a fixed blade in 3v, that is tough steel, will hold an edge a long time.