Cool thanks, I just took a educated guess on that set. I actually ordered its weaker sister spring just in case a couple days ago. I measure a stock spring that was cut 3 coils and hung a 3.8 or so lbs receiver set off of it. It moved a little more than an inch, so stock springs are probably rated at 2.5 to 4 lbs. The set you use is over 9 lbs! So, with bro science it should be 3 times as strong as a stock spring. Thanks again.
Could you explain why there is a solid bushing under the spur gear and ball bearing on the top? Are there ball bearings on all the other ones, including under the sector gear? Would really like to know if this is something I should do on my builds from now on.
Great video, I learned a lot. Didn't know about the timing being able to affect fps. Seems like a stiffer tappet plate spring is a no brainer for every gearbox.
Before they had tappet delays for the sector gear, we used to use the old school 6mm plastic mech box bushings, sand them into a nice shape and glue them in. It was a little tedious, but they fit and worked great if you did it right. For $0 you decreased the friction and wear on the tappet plate while improving the timing. -- Happy Hunting
When operating a stock AEG on semi-only using stock trigger contacts with cut off lever and SSG, where should the nozzle rest at the end of each cycle between shots? Should the nozzle be at its furthest rearward position as shown @1:17 in the video? Just curious when the cut off lever resets the contact shuttle and cuts power, what position should the sector gear and tappet plate be at rest in between shots and whether final nozzle position has any effect on double feeding. Thanks.
It depends what type of battery you are using among other things like an electronically regulated cycle etc. The more juice the bat has, the farther back the nozzle will be. I've tested it with 11,1V 25C and 30/60C+ batteries and the difference is appr. 3mm. The nozzle will be pre cocked most of the time in semi auto. I would say for a good functioning airsoft the nozzle should be at least halfway visible through the BB feeding port. You could try removing the delayer chip on the sector gear, stiffer tappet plate spring or weaker battery to reduce the pre cocking.
@@venusairsoft6783 ....less then 10 seconds with a dremel will fix that... Lonex has the same reinforcements inside the shell and people have been “modding” different tappets for years upon years in them. They aren’t proprietary
@@opairsoft8100 I’m kind of a stickler I want to keep the part 100% unmodified so I know that’s it’s not compromised in any way. Although several people have suggested that,. I found it easier to replace with OEM.
@@venusairsoft6783 then airsoft tech work is not for you. Literally 99.9% of upgrading/changing parts/improve performance is about modifying them to work with each other due the the horrific standards that are in airsoft.
Another important thing: Shimming of the sector gear and/or the thickness of the part of the tappet plate that has any kind of contact with the sector gear because the back arm of the tappet plate can get pinched between the sector gear and the gearbox shell if there's not enough shimming or if the tappet plate is too thick at that point.
Hello 👋🏻 Do you know why the Nozzle does not make the complete cycle? I mean, sometimes the Nozzle gets all the way to the back and other times it doesn't causing misfeeding of bbs in the Hop Up chamber. Thanks for your time and share your knowledge with us. Best regards.
So what do you do in place of using a delayerchip? If the purpose is to hold the nzzle back longer to feed a bb, how do you tune the tappet plate without the usebof a delayer? And what tappet plates do you recomend? Thats always been a grey area, and ive never had any issues with any of the main brands. Very helpful episode on a subject that most dont cover, thanks!
Thank you for the info. Im having the same issue in my retro arms gb. Im drfianrely think of trimming down the tappet plate fin a tiny bit to release early. I am having the same fps inconsistency whenever i had the sector delayer in place after remving it. Semi works great about a 10fps +- but full auto has a hard time kewping up.
Hey man, great video. I just bought a G&G ARP 2.0 S-AEG and changed ther spring to an M130 and the original nozzle to an 21.25mm nozzle with o-rings. Since then i am having feeding issues where most of the time it doesn't feed the bb at all or double feeds. interesting to mention is, that the G&G MidCap feeds worse than the Classic Army ones I bought. Can you think of anything that causes this problem ? It was my first ever SAEG Tuning but i am pretty sure I reassembled the gearbos correctly .. Thank you in advance
After replacing the spring to SHS120 and engine to ASG custom 30k i have had misfeeds in my krytac. After i slapped the delayer chip everything was fixed. How to overcome such thing without the delayer chip?
@@parky6031 One of the sets I ordered seems to be the exact one the Tech uses (9654K959). The other is a weaker spring (9654K958). I crudely measured a cut stock spring in lb/inch to be about 3 or so lbs. The strong spring is close to 10 lbs and the weaker is almost 6 lbs.
Any chance you know what a good stiffer tappet plate spring for a KWA would be? I have ordered one from KoA but shipping from overseas is crazy long right now.
Have you encountered tappet PME? i.e. where the tappet gets retracted before the piston has returned? I have found SS from release can alleviate this issue but do you have any thoughts to add?
Awsome video.. I have recently rebuilt my FN-FNC G&K gear box. 16:1 Gears SHS + CNC SHS cylinder + SHS piston + M130 spring. But the nozzle always stays a bit back in resting. And i have redicolous air loss?? Could my tappet plate be slower than the piston?
I gotta ask, I think thats a patch on you pfp. Is that somthing you'v custom ordered or was that some old merch and is there something similar that I could buy.
I have a SHS 12 tooth gear with the shs tappet v2 (purple one) plate + a brushless motor (xpert GP-350)that pre-cocks on semi. On pre-cock it seems that my tappet Plate is not as forward (towards the hopup) as possible… causing BB feeding issues. Would trimming the tappet plate like a DSG build help?
Thanks for sharing that information, I had tappet issues before and now I'm starting to build a dsg so this comes very handy. What are your thoughts on POM or Aluminum tappet plates?are they worth?the aluminum can create potential issues?
I’m not an expert, but from my understanding the aluminum tappet plates aren’t very good. Tappet plates are supposed to have some bend to them I’m pretty sure, and I’d imagine the slight extra weight could cause issues for tappet timing potentially? I’ve heard another big gripe is the anodizing wearing off over time and getting that in the gearbox
@@roycedoll115 hmm yeah I guess they have to bend to compensate for the height of the sector gear but regarding the weight I guess it shouldn't affect that much, and for the timing maybe using a reinforced tappet spring with a coil or two less will make it return fast enough without breaking it against the gb shell.
In so many cases plastic is actually better than metal in an airsoft gun this will annoy alot of people, but those people havent been playing a decade like myself so they can kindly go do one, il say this, if the plastic parts last half as long as the metal ones, but cost half as much, it is always better to pickup plastic parts in my opinion, (other than gears, bushings, gearbox case and other required metal parts), parts like metal bearing spring guides are good, like its got major benifits over the plastic non bearing ones, it makes full sense to get one but not all parts are better metal imo... the easiest one to explain is a piston. Pistons strip and when a metal toothed piston strips it can often take gears with it, and even if it doesnt imediately, if you dont know one tooth is gone that tooth will be flinging around your gearbox every shot and will surely take out a gear tooth some day or another. A platic one will die sooner, sure but you can buy 2/3 pistons for the price of one gearset and the plastic will easily just get crushed by the gears and wont damage them so easily so why risk your gears for it? Another one is metal piston heads, they are louder and dont absorb as much of the impact of the piston as plastic do, so over time a metal piston head is more likely to crack a gearbox shell, or cylinder head, sure itl last longer than a plastic one, but the price of a new GB shell can get you like 3-6 piston heads depending on brand and other variables. Id imagine with a metal tappet plate again it would be louder, youd need to grease more as the friction between metal and metal is higher, if you didnt metal shavings in the gearbox which would just shred any o rings over time, if it ever warped it could jam your whole GB and at the RPS of a DSG like your on about who knows what that could cause, burnt out motor maybe? Dont get me wrong, there are applications for metal parts, over where I am from in the UK our full auto AEGs have to fall typically around 350fps with a 0.2g even outdoors so alot lower than other countries but higher than some, for us id say metal parts like metal piston heads, full metal teeth piston and so on are only really useful for DMRs, hey its my opinion but its just what ive found... Im the sorta guy thats always bushings over bearings because reliability to me is of the upmost and repairability too TL:DR In short airsoft parts are expendible sometimes its smart to choose what parts to make more expendible than others (plastic vs metal) to keep other parts in tact and to keep your maintainance costs down
Nice video man! :) You have any suggestion to what may cause feeding issues in m14 cyma? Right now first 30 or so bb's from mid cap / hi cap mag shoots for about 2 meters / 150fps, after that fps goest to 410-420 on m120 spring and gun shoots OK. Only when I load 10 bbs into midacp it feeds and shoots ok. Could you help me resolve my issue? :)
Not sure if you've found a solution yet, but to me that sounds like textbook "midcap syndrome". It happens when your bbs are pushing up so hard that they force your air nozzle into the top of your hopup chamber. A tell tell way to check this is to see if you've got scuffs on the top of your hopup chamber where the nozzle goes in or excess wear on the neck of your nozzle near the tip. Fix it by clipping coils off your tappet spring or replace with a stronger one as mentioned in the video. You will also want to check the play in the nozzle on the cylinder head when it is fully extended. More than a few mm up or down play and you'll want either a new nozzle (be sure to match the new nozzle's length to your old one) or a new cylinder head. Finding a combo that allows the nozzle to slide freely but not have excess play will likely be very much trial and error involving buying a few different brands of each to find the right combination for your build. Hope this helps.
Part number for thicc’r tappet plate spring:
9654K959
www.mcmaster.com/9654K959/
Cool thanks, I just took a educated guess on that set. I actually ordered its weaker sister spring just in case a couple days ago. I measure a stock spring that was cut 3 coils and hung a 3.8 or so lbs receiver set off of it. It moved a little more than an inch, so stock springs are probably rated at 2.5 to 4 lbs. The set you use is over 9 lbs! So, with bro science it should be 3 times as strong as a stock spring. Thanks again.
You should make a video about where you source other AEG machined parts 🤓
The “Mc” is pronounced like ‘McDonalds’, not like MC Hammer. Hurts my ear-balls to hear it mispronounced.
Could you explain why there is a solid bushing under the spur gear and ball bearing on the top? Are there ball bearings on all the other ones, including under the sector gear?
Would really like to know if this is something I should do on my builds from now on.
@@KAG2203 bushing where the forces are. Bearings where the speed it.
I've watched a lot of videos on timing, this is by far the best I've found!
Great video, I learned a lot. Didn't know about the timing being able to affect fps. Seems like a stiffer tappet plate spring is a no brainer for every gearbox.
Babe wake up, theairsoft tech posted
Getting back to airsoft. I love your channel. Thank you for all the knowledge!
Before they had tappet delays for the sector gear, we used to use the old school 6mm plastic mech box bushings, sand them into a nice shape and glue them in. It was a little tedious, but they fit and worked great if you did it right. For $0 you decreased the friction and wear on the tappet plate while improving the timing.
-- Happy Hunting
When operating a stock AEG on semi-only using stock trigger contacts with cut off lever and SSG, where should the nozzle rest at the end of each cycle between shots? Should the nozzle be at its furthest rearward position as shown @1:17 in the video? Just curious when the cut off lever resets the contact shuttle and cuts power, what position should the sector gear and tappet plate be at rest in between shots and whether final nozzle position has any effect on double feeding. Thanks.
It depends what type of battery you are using among other things like an electronically regulated cycle etc. The more juice the bat has, the farther back the nozzle will be. I've tested it with 11,1V 25C and 30/60C+ batteries and the difference is appr. 3mm.
The nozzle will be pre cocked most of the time in semi auto. I would say for a good functioning airsoft the nozzle should be at least halfway visible through the BB feeding port. You could try removing the delayer chip on the sector gear, stiffer tappet plate spring or weaker battery to reduce the pre cocking.
HE IS BACK
Perfect timing! Should be getting my new proprietary v2 Tappet plate for a G2H gearbox and I have to trim the fin for DSG. Thanks so much!
Those aren’t proprietary
@@opairsoft8100 they are, they have cutouts toward the nozzle brace where the gearbox is reinforced. And a normal Tappet plate will not fit.
@@venusairsoft6783 ....less then 10 seconds with a dremel will fix that...
Lonex has the same reinforcements inside the shell and people have been “modding” different tappets for years upon years in them.
They aren’t proprietary
@@opairsoft8100 I’m kind of a stickler I want to keep the part 100% unmodified so I know that’s it’s not compromised in any way. Although several people have suggested that,. I found it easier to replace with OEM.
@@venusairsoft6783 then airsoft tech work is not for you. Literally 99.9% of upgrading/changing parts/improve performance is about modifying them to work with each other due the the horrific standards that are in airsoft.
Great video! You allowed me to fix the fps problem I was having completely. Thank you!
Great video, I learned a lot man!
Another important thing: Shimming of the sector gear and/or the thickness of the part of the tappet plate that has any kind of contact with the sector gear because the back arm of the tappet plate can get pinched between the sector gear and the gearbox shell if there's not enough shimming or if the tappet plate is too thick at that point.
Thnx for all your absolutely helpfully videos!!! Greetings from Berlin ;)
Hello 👋🏻
Do you know why the Nozzle does not make the complete cycle? I mean, sometimes the Nozzle gets all the way to the back and other times it doesn't causing misfeeding of bbs in the Hop Up chamber.
Thanks for your time and share your knowledge with us.
Best regards.
will be putting this info to good use in one of my upcoming videos. thanks!
So what do you do in place of using a delayerchip? If the purpose is to hold the nzzle back longer to feed a bb, how do you tune the tappet plate without the usebof a delayer?
And what tappet plates do you recomend? Thats always been a grey area, and ive never had any issues with any of the main brands.
Very helpful episode on a subject that most dont cover, thanks!
move the tappet timing
cut the small rod move it to 1st gear or 2nd gear
What is the McMaster-Carr spring part number? Great video bud. Any Downsides to a stronger tappet plate spring i should be aware of?
Very informative, ty
Thank you for the info. Im having the same issue in my retro arms gb. Im drfianrely think of trimming down the tappet plate fin a tiny bit to release early. I am having the same fps inconsistency whenever i had the sector delayer in place after remving it. Semi works great about a 10fps +- but full auto has a hard time kewping up.
Try the SHS dsg tappet plate works great in RA gb
@@SpeedSim_ i will give that a try
Hey man, great video. I just bought a G&G ARP 2.0 S-AEG and changed ther spring to an M130 and the original nozzle to an 21.25mm nozzle with o-rings. Since then i am having feeding issues where most of the time it doesn't feed the bb at all or double feeds. interesting to mention is, that the G&G MidCap feeds worse than the Classic Army ones I bought. Can you think of anything that causes this problem ? It was my first ever SAEG Tuning but i am pretty sure I reassembled the gearbos correctly .. Thank you in advance
After replacing the spring to SHS120 and engine to ASG custom 30k i have had misfeeds in my krytac. After i slapped the delayer chip everything was fixed. How to overcome such thing without the delayer chip?
What is the McMaster-Carr spring part number? I ordered two sets I think will work but want to compare what you use.
I would like to know too
Mcmaster car part number?
@@parky6031 One of the sets I ordered seems to be the exact one the Tech uses (9654K959). The other is a weaker spring (9654K958). I crudely measured a cut stock spring in lb/inch to be about 3 or so lbs. The strong spring is close to 10 lbs and the weaker is almost 6 lbs.
@@Taseden so should I get the first one for a dsg then?
i thought the delayer chip helps give extra time for the tappet plate to pull back and put bb in chamber in high rof setups
More time allowed to the bb enter in chamber, less Time for the TP to achieve a good air seal
Any chance you know what a good stiffer tappet plate spring for a KWA would be? I have ordered one from KoA but shipping from overseas is crazy long right now.
Have you encountered tappet PME? i.e. where the tappet gets retracted before the piston has returned? I have found SS from release can alleviate this issue but do you have any thoughts to add?
I second this! Im fighting to solve a tappet timing issue, piston hits right as tappet gets pulled back and full auto is worse...causing misfeeds.
So what your saying is I should try to use my m249 without the delayer chip?
I mean it does only shoot full auto 😅
Awsome video.. I have recently rebuilt my FN-FNC G&K gear box. 16:1 Gears SHS + CNC SHS cylinder + SHS piston + M130 spring. But the nozzle always stays a bit back in resting. And i have redicolous air loss?? Could my tappet plate be slower than the piston?
v7 tapper plate from shs on a m14 for example, may be fixed
I gotta ask, I think thats a patch on you pfp. Is that somthing you'v custom ordered or was that some old merch and is there something similar that I could buy.
Can a dsg tappet plate release too soon? I believe i cut the fin too short
I have a SHS 12 tooth gear with the shs tappet v2 (purple one) plate + a brushless motor (xpert GP-350)that pre-cocks on semi.
On pre-cock it seems that my tappet
Plate is not as forward (towards the hopup) as possible… causing BB feeding issues.
Would trimming the tappet plate like a DSG build help?
Do you what kind of delayed tappet that for magazine with no motor?
Thanks for sharing that information, I had tappet issues before and now I'm starting to build a dsg so this comes very handy.
What are your thoughts on POM or Aluminum tappet plates?are they worth?the aluminum can create potential issues?
I’m not an expert, but from my understanding the aluminum tappet plates aren’t very good. Tappet plates are supposed to have some bend to them I’m pretty sure, and I’d imagine the slight extra weight could cause issues for tappet timing potentially? I’ve heard another big gripe is the anodizing wearing off over time and getting that in the gearbox
@@roycedoll115 hmm yeah I guess they have to bend to compensate for the height of the sector gear but regarding the weight I guess it shouldn't affect that much, and for the timing maybe using a reinforced tappet spring with a coil or two less will make it return fast enough without breaking it against the gb shell.
In so many cases plastic is actually better than metal in an airsoft gun this will annoy alot of people, but those people havent been playing a decade like myself so they can kindly go do one, il say this, if the plastic parts last half as long as the metal ones, but cost half as much, it is always better to pickup plastic parts in my opinion, (other than gears, bushings, gearbox case and other required metal parts), parts like metal bearing spring guides are good, like its got major benifits over the plastic non bearing ones, it makes full sense to get one but not all parts are better metal imo... the easiest one to explain is a piston. Pistons strip and when a metal toothed piston strips it can often take gears with it, and even if it doesnt imediately, if you dont know one tooth is gone that tooth will be flinging around your gearbox every shot and will surely take out a gear tooth some day or another. A platic one will die sooner, sure but you can buy 2/3 pistons for the price of one gearset and the plastic will easily just get crushed by the gears and wont damage them so easily so why risk your gears for it?
Another one is metal piston heads, they are louder and dont absorb as much of the impact of the piston as plastic do, so over time a metal piston head is more likely to crack a gearbox shell, or cylinder head, sure itl last longer than a plastic one, but the price of a new GB shell can get you like 3-6 piston heads depending on brand and other variables. Id imagine with a metal tappet plate again it would be louder, youd need to grease more as the friction between metal and metal is higher, if you didnt metal shavings in the gearbox which would just shred any o rings over time, if it ever warped it could jam your whole GB and at the RPS of a DSG like your on about who knows what that could cause, burnt out motor maybe?
Dont get me wrong, there are applications for metal parts, over where I am from in the UK our full auto AEGs have to fall typically around 350fps with a 0.2g even outdoors so alot lower than other countries but higher than some, for us id say metal parts like metal piston heads, full metal teeth piston and so on are only really useful for DMRs, hey its my opinion but its just what ive found... Im the sorta guy thats always bushings over bearings because reliability to me is of the upmost and repairability too
TL:DR In short airsoft parts are expendible sometimes its smart to choose what parts to make more expendible than others (plastic vs metal) to keep other parts in tact and to keep your maintainance costs down
How about the piston in tsg do u cut the teeth also..?
Nice video man! :) You have any suggestion to what may cause feeding issues in m14 cyma? Right now first 30 or so bb's from mid cap / hi cap mag shoots for about 2 meters / 150fps, after that fps goest to 410-420 on m120 spring and gun shoots OK. Only when I load 10 bbs into midacp it feeds and shoots ok. Could you help me resolve my issue? :)
Not sure if you've found a solution yet, but to me that sounds like textbook "midcap syndrome". It happens when your bbs are pushing up so hard that they force your air nozzle into the top of your hopup chamber. A tell tell way to check this is to see if you've got scuffs on the top of your hopup chamber where the nozzle goes in or excess wear on the neck of your nozzle near the tip. Fix it by clipping coils off your tappet spring or replace with a stronger one as mentioned in the video. You will also want to check the play in the nozzle on the cylinder head when it is fully extended. More than a few mm up or down play and you'll want either a new nozzle (be sure to match the new nozzle's length to your old one) or a new cylinder head. Finding a combo that allows the nozzle to slide freely but not have excess play will likely be very much trial and error involving buying a few different brands of each to find the right combination for your build. Hope this helps.
What magz do you use for 45 rps???
Ngl you saved me 😂
What’s the McMaster-Carr part number for the springs?
I need to know also
is drilling the piston to make it lighter any good? should i do it on mine? ty
Just buy a lightweight piston shs is okay but i use the real deal airsoft piston
drilling the piston to make it lighter is good for avoiding pme
What tappet plate is that? The first example, the blue one?
shs prolly
Shs
Pardon, but would anyone have the part number for a P90 gearbox? More specifically the Krytac P90 gearbox? Thanks
A tappet plate?
@isaachewitt3415 my bad, should've said tappet plate spring for the P90 GB.
@@DerpHWimbleton ah do you still need the spring?
@isaachewitt3415 funny enough yeah. Haven't actually looked for one as I pretty much forgot about it. Lol
My piston doesn’t fire. It winds up but no pop. Driving me cra cra
天梯不要切吗？
My tappet plate broke bro. Why is that?
Me being the lucky tech having major tappet plate timing issues on a trigger response ssg build lol
So much insight into a simple tappet plate. Who would have thought?
Why the fuck should one have TSG?
80% Things About Tappet Plate Timing :)))
u abandoned your channel 🤦🏾♂️