@@ChriswithaK yes, I got that. I should have stated that I meant I hope they don’t close it for any new attraction idea in the future. I really enjoy your videos on both channels and your thorough explanations. I have learned so much! ❤️
Oh, cool, let’s remove something that’s a timeless centerpiece and replace it with an old IP that will be changed 15 years from now. Totally makes sense…
A solution may be to go behind Big Thunder Railroad as there is a rather wide buffer zone there. Create a "mountain pass" from the frontier train station to the left of the train tracks with a high mountain wall on the west side and a barrier between the pathway and the railroad tracks. A new pedestrian bridge can be built along side of the train crossing. This would actually put you inside the expansion area without having to cross the tracks. As far as the riverboat is concerned and the maintenance cost, just a make modern replica that looks and sounds like the real thing but is actually electric, diesel or natural gas. I think the real problem is that Disney does not want to do the hard part. No new permits, no new land prep, no new infrastructure (bathrooms, food service). Just level an existing area and put in something new whether it fits or not.
Yes, you’re absolutely right. I made the video with the assumption that the land was feasible to build on and that Disney was able to get the areas around the river rezoned. Without that, there is no elegant way of getting people back behind the river like at Disneyland
I just hope the current unfair plan ain’t because of well thei recent proposed rainwater tax laws in some us states, akak if anyone hasn’t read the news!!
Initially there was an expansion plan many years ago that literally placed a new walking path behind Big Thunder and the Train station. That way they would easily be able to access the expansion pads and not have to mess with the River at all. If I remember correctly, they planned to have it dump out next to Small World.
Honestly they should've just made a bridge into tom sawyer but (it would've probably looked bad) and removed half the river and made Liberty bell to be stationed into a walkthrough and or moved
That was my thought too. Can shorten the river and permanently dock the Liberty Bell. Then the pathway size issue by Big Thunder wouldn’t be an issue. I’m overall fine getting rid of Tom Sawyer Island and the boat as a ride as they didn’t seem that popular, but keeping part of it for the aesthetics would have been nice.
Best and only? If by your explanation, there is no access to a behind Big Thunder Mountain Carsland, then why not replace the Tomorrowland Speedway, which no one particularly likes anyhow, with Carsland? As Fresh Baked noted, Carsland is any area with cars that have eyes. They aren't limited to a Southwest or Western theme. That said, couldn't guests access a new Carsland by going to the left of Big Thunder Mountain, where all of those trees are currently? Removing RoA is one of the worst ideas Disney has ever had and with recent decisions, that's saying a lot. It's completely scatter brained. I thought demolishing Innoventions West was a big mistake, but this Americana destruction takes the cake!
As I said in the video, this is the only solution if you were to do Beyond Big Thunder. In fact, in the beginning of the video I expressed my distaste with the idea of Cars Land being right in the middle of Frontierland. I also never said there weren't other places this expansion couldn't go.
@@ChriswithaK Unless I'm missing some aspect of the topography, I don't see why a large path can't be made to the left of BtM, with a draw bridge over the little canal and as for Villians land, there are many ways to get to that area to the left of the Haunted Mansion and from Fantasyland.
I understand what you are saying, however, I think that there are solutions for many of these issues that you bring up. I would start by moving the train station beyond Big Thunder and mark it as the split between Car’s area and Frontierland. The walkway does not have to be on the River of America side of Big Thunder it can be near the train tracks, under, over and around the area. I can think of 3 or 4 options there. On the Haunted Mansion side, I would take out the current queue. Turn that space into a walkway and along the side of the Haunted Mansion build a split-level haunted town. The upper level would have shops and a haunted bar/restaurant. The lower level would be the HM queue and walkway to the new area.
That would require bulldozing the train station, haunted mansion queue, and Tiana’s queue while also building lower down into the utilidoors. You have to remember, imagineers do not control the park, there are multiple groups of people this has to go through like operations, maintenance, horticulture, local government bodies, and multiple others just to be approved. ALL parties must agree when doing something that major. The pathway I showed in the video has the least amount of resistance, destroying very little of the park without adding much complexity. Once you start repositioning and rebuilding structures, it becomes significantly harder to get something approved. Arm chair imagineering is one thing, but real life is a completely different story.
@@ChriswithaK I am sorry if I gave the impression that I thought my suggestions were going to be easy or cheap. No, it would take lots of money and someone with strong leadership to pull this off, along with getting everyone to sign off on this. I hope that you didn’t take my post as an attack on your information. You position is 100% solid and well presented.
Why couldn’t Disney just shorten the river and installed a dock like they have at Disneyland for the repairs? This could allow for the installation of wider paths, solve the issue of getting the boat out of the magic kingdom, and keep the rivers of America in some form.
Exactly! Or make the River a loop at each end connected by a stream that would allow the boat to travel each way. That way you solve the width problems and still have access to the connecting canals.
Ive never been to Magic Kingdom in my life, but this announcement makes me mad as if ive been there before. Theres plenty of useable land BEHIND BIG THUNDER that could be used! Or what about using Tom Sawyer Island as a mini Cars Land or something? Really mad at this, and hopefully it NEVER HAPPENS at my home park Disneyland.
“The only way to bring Beyond Thunder Mountain to life is to destroy Rivers of America.” Maybe don’t bring Beyond Thunder Mountain to life…. Steve Jobs and Walt Disney were great at telling imbeciles like this “NO”. Being able to shut down idiotic, be it logical, ideas was both of those men’s greatest asset into their design philosophy. Unfortunately, when you remove the intelligent overseers, you end up with Lightning McQueen, unannounced, in your driveway.
it’s called parking the boat, turning that into a restaurant, and building bridges if that’s the case, but filling the river in ruins one of the only parts of the park that feels breathable
This was a great video and I can totally see your point of view. And it makes sense why Disney is going this route because all they care about is cost-cutting at every turn. I think in the end it’s gonna come back to bite them.
We’ve constructed 1,000-foot skyscrapers, sent men to the moon, and built the entire Magic Kingdom area, complete with two hotels and a monorail, in roughly four years (admittedly with much less focus on health and safety). Nothing is impossible, as you said. We could easily remove the boat and keep the river scenery which is what sets them apart from the rest of the competition. The truth is, they simply don’t want to spend the money to do it. From a financial standpoint, I don’t blame them, but it’s still disappointing as these pushed back land expansions will help spread the guests out over bigger distances making it all feel less crowded.
And Replace Galaxy’s Edge in Disneyland for Discoveryland: Replace Rise of the Resistance for an Expedition Everest Style Journey to the Center of the Earth, Replace Millennium Falcon’s Smuggler Run for A reimagined 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, and Change the Batuu aesthetic for a Jules Verne aesthetic!
The best part of your video is explaining how difficult it is to service the Liberty Belle. What a shame they didn't learn from Disneyland and build a suitable dry dock nearby like Disneyland has with Fowler's Harbor. So, I "buy" the argument they needed to retire the Liberty Belle. But I absolutely do not buy the argument that they couldn't then dramatically modify the shape of the river and islands to accommodate a walkway on either side: a rustic boardwalk of suitable width by Big Thunder Mountain and a path along Haunted Mansion. Once the river is drained, the earth-moving is straight-forward, as we saw at Disneyland. The entire queue could have been moved above Haunted Mansion and in fact combined with an incredibly popular Haunted Mansion bar or restaurant to pay for it. (The Cars attractions will cost $200-$300 million so these paths are the least of the budgetary concerns.) They could have retired the Liberty Belle, built these paths, enhanced Tom Sawyer's Island with new interactive discoveries (re-name it if necessary) and create a bridge from the new cross-path from HM to BTM to get to it. That would have preserved the river as a scenic element (no more wasteful than World Showcase Lagoon and many other bodies of water in theme parks worldwide). Then the Cars attraction could have gone where the upper portion of the lake was and Villains land to the right connecting to Fantasyland. Or put the Cars land in Hollywood Studio or replacing Tomorrowland speedway with a planetary explorers/rovers theme with fantastical other-worldly landscape. And if they absolutely, absolutely HAD to put an attraction right exactly where Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer's Island are in the heart of Frontierland, they should have dreamed up a WATER RIDE so that it...had water still! They could have innovated on the decades old "river rapids" style ride with such features as: 1. Three rows of forward-facing seating with increasing "water shield" side panels from front to back. Sit in the back if you want to stay dry, sit up front if you want to get wet. 2. Elevator lift. Boat goes into a perforated elevator basket/cage and is lifted directly up (inside the mountain) and release up high, saving land. Theme it like you'r being blasted up by a geyser or in a mine or mill. 3. Like other "water coaster" attractions at other parks, have exciting drops. With these, and other, innovations, Disney could have created essentially Rivers of America 2.0 ... an exciting new take on the Rivers of America. It could have linked all the different biomes around Frontierland together from New England's rushing rivers to the exciting bayou to desert old west rapids. It could have been *the* signature E-ticket attraction that made all of Frontierland make sense. And best of all, people would not be rejecting it like the anthropomorphic Cars ride, because it would make sense. It would look and feel "right" in Frontierland. Give its a Woody, Jessie, Bullseye theme, if IP is necessary. That franchise has more movies and has made more money than Cars anyway.
Really cool ideas man. I mean, I would have started with keeping the entire river and plussing the whole thing, but even if you had to cut off the back 3rd like at Disneyland's, your key point about doing ROA 2.0 is spot on! And you mentioned a number of cool ideas if they felt obliged to drop in an e ticket in that ROA space. Big Thunder in Paris boards off the island and goes through an underground tunnel. I know Florida has a high water table but get that imagination and engineering ramped up! Hire you to get us ROA 2.0 integrated properly.
What I would have done was build a New Orleans land behind Tina bayou adventure that would then lead to cars land. The villain land entrance would just be at tangled bathrooms.
I’m an old (60+) and classic Disney fan. For me, PIXAR is not Disney, for example. Put all these brands (Marvels, Star Wars and so) at Hollywood Studios. Or in the already messy DCA. The park launched the Theming Nightmare Age! And thinking that Walt Disney invented a theme park exactly for being tired of the mess of visual information at those old carnival fairs!!! Disney should create new things for the Magic Kingdom following It’s original ideas! Walt Disney was smart enough to not tie any of the original lands of his first theme park, Disneyland, to any movie in particular. The rides could be related to some movies, but not the lands. It’s a safer way not to became outdated fast. They already ruined the fantastic Epcot Center from the 80’s. Now is the Magic Kingdom in jeopardy!!!!! They have enough land at WDW to build new things without eliminating some Walt Disney’s classic creations. It seems that the “Today Disney” doesn’t care or respects the real legacy of It’s once whole world beloved name! So sad!!! ☹️
I make a lot of great points. Of course, they could build a different path to your 8:46 proposed site for Cars Land and Villians Land via a themed tunnel from Fantasy Land like the tunnel to Star Wars. That would allow them to keep the Liberty Bell and the construction (which will take a long time) will be out of site.
I wish they'd just start another small park (of which Villains might be a large part) that could use the same parking lots and hotels around Seven Seas It wouldn't have to be a full size park at the beginning and could grow. heck. they could build Monsters, inc, Cars, and Villains, Tropical Americas there. Done. and leave Hollywood to Hollywood, Animal Kingdom to animals and Frontier to frontier. Plus charge a whole new ticket price to pay for it rather than their current plan which does not cost one more day ticket.
This isn’t California where they can just add another theme park across from Disneyland without issue, this is Walt Disney World. The only way for guests to get from one place to another is by using Disney’s transportation systems. The bus transportation system is one of the biggest expenses at the Walt Disney World resort. Adding a new theme park would mean adding a new bus route to every Disney hotel plus Disney Springs and the other parks in the resort for park hopping. The number 1 way of making more money in business is not to raise prices or add more options for consumers, it’s to reduce costs. It’s the reason why the skyliner was added and partially the reason why the magical express was removed. Also the parks at Walt Disney World have a significantly lower attendance than the Magic kingdom, with Hollywood studios and animal kingdom being extremely close to islands of adventure at USF. If they were to add an additional park, they would even further reduce people coming to those parks. It would be much smarter to increase the capacity of their current parks before expanding to another park. I don’t agree with what they’re doing to the river, but adding a new theme park just compounds all the issues Disney is already having.
Yea, not crazy about all of this. Wish it could be preserved pretty much as is. I thought maybe keep a bit of river in front loading area for looks and aster is, keep shop permanently docked as a walk on/off attraction and/or a food service, if filling in the remainder were necessary. At least that would maintain the facade of the land and time setting. The rover would just “fade out” around the bend. That idea could also lend itself to some water spray or evening show.
It was fine for 50 years. They could built outside of the berm. Our tastes are in rapid decline if they think this is acceptable. They are destroying the Magic Kingdom significantly. It is starting to not look like Disney World. I got the album The Legacy Collection: Disneyland just so I can listen to the rides I remember from my memories, many of which don't or won't exist anymore. They want to remove everything scenic, romantic, and peaceful in place of thrill rides. This ride could be enjoyed by grandparents and the youngest of children together, and they just threw it into a dust bin.
Also, they have the money to build two entirely new lands, they can afford to build a new walkway if this project really does matter to the company. They took a financial risk with Galactic Starcruiser and plenty of other high stakes ventures with Galaxy's Edge.
Putting a Cars ride in HWS would be the best place for it, but where? Star Wars Launch Bay. How important is it? Important enough that the ones in Disneyland and Shanghai are both closed. The only issue is I have no clue what the rest of the building is for, but say they get rid of it, along with the two small parking lots next to it. That will be giving Cars about over 6 acres of land compared to the 4 acres in Rivers of America. From this spot, Cars could also have 3 entrances from Toy Story Land, Animation Courtyard, and Sunset Blvd. Still, what is that building for? Can it just be relocated?
They were just lazy to think where they could put Cars...They prefer to erase a great cool historic theming for just entertainerment. If you want to a lot of ride, go to a funfair 💁
What will happen to the ship? Discovery Island is large enough they could move the ship, Tom Sawyer Island and even Frontier land there. The Liberty Belle could give a few long tours of Bay Lake and such. Or will it sail The Sassagoula River?
I can think of one idea that would save Rivers of America. Remove Small World, store it away for a while, then, you can make a much larger path through right to the area where these new lands are being built. And as for Small World, it won't be completely gone. For it will be remade in this new area with a better facade like the one at Disneyland. That's what I would do.
The cost & difficulty of moving the riverboat to dry dock are a real issue, but the other reasons for getting rid of the ROA don't seem insurmountable. My hunch is the main reason they're ripping out the river is for the same reason they tore out Epcot's Fountain of Nations. Or why they're wasting big dollars on ripping out a perfectly good attraction, Splash Mountain, in order to satisfy some odd creative-political agenda. Back in 2001, the Disney Co poured hundreds of millions of $$ into their very mediocre California Adventure. IOW, the planners back then actually didn't think they were creative clods. So the past predicts the future.
I originally answered that in video. You can not build a tunnel that goes under the river/thunder mountain that is Ada compliant, it’s going to be too steep. The only way to do it is to start the tunnel back where the exit is in Thunder Mountain. There is also foundation work under thunder mountain unless you expect Disney to burrow through it and cause issues for the attraction. Additionally, this is Florida, the state where rain is a massive issue. Disneyland has a sort of tunnel leading to Mickey’s ToonTown and that gets flooded during rain storms. Imagine loosing one of your major entrances because it rains.
2:45 Triss plan better can work out and though remove few trees but leave thousands more unscaved in the area even when seeing the park form google maps, akak mix inbetween sparks and trees good ecosystem and life support in the area ( houghnpeopsed dubailand was all clustered together due to lifelessness in the current desert, though taking its time to build though)
Let’s also not forget the fact that guests often already take a boat to get to the Magic Kingdom. Most guests are not going to waste time going on a second boat given that they will have already used a boat to get to or leave the magic kingdom.it’s basically a redundant attraction for the magic kingdom, especially in comparison to Disneyland.
@@mikeohawk95 but once again, Disney does not care about the guests who basically don’t want to be in the park. They are trying to increase capacity that way they can fill more people into the park and therefore sell more tickets.
@@SagaciousSilence and additional land usage up tot eh limits(to evade eco disters) is the proper way to hosue more stuff and guests + built up to the lad limits and not waste the alrady made rivers is the best way to buid a best cars wilderness and and villions land!!
@@SagaciousSilence "Disney does not care about the guests..." Sell more tickets when the park is already at an atrocious capacity. Many, many people go to Disney World because of the nostalgia they have for it. It becomes alot less compelling when more and more of the rides they remember from their childhood are not there to visit any longer. Disney World is not Six Flags which updates each year by building another roller coaster. I want to ride Pirates, or the Haunted Mansion, because I remember having an awesome time, 20, 15, 10 years ago on it and want to pass those memories to my own children. Universal is building an entirely new park while the original park still keeps many older rides even though most of theirs are not as beloved as Disney's are. The Riverboat is not as redundant as you think. Most people actually take the monorail. The Riverboat seldom if ever has capacity issues, pulls weight off busier attractions within the area like Splash Mountain (don't gaf about the refurb) or Big Thunder Mountain, and allows a wide variety of people, especially elderly or young children, a chance to enjoy the park for its atmosphere and atmosphere alone. Removing the boat is a big L for Disney when considerably less prestigious parks like Busch Gardens will keep their boats in operation, just as stupid as it was to take down the skyride in the 1990s. This is as big as removing the Disney World Railroad. It forms the physical geography of the park, the hub and spoke model that makes the park easy to navigate.
What are you talking about? Im looking at roads connecting to lands on the map. Also Toontown in Disneyland is behind the the rail road track. So they built a bridge so we walk under the tracks into Toon town. Then do the same here or build a nice long bridge with a low incline over the tracks. Wide and sturdy for cars and guests and some effects in tunnel for the train. The better idea would be to put it in the Hollywood park, but the best idea is to not do it all and fix park instead. Magic Kingdom will be another Six Flags soon.
At this stage Disney should scrap Cars all together, focus on Villains given the fandom have been asking for this for years, and focus on the rumoured Moana attraction behind Pirates instead.
I don't see any reason why the riverboat needs to be moving on the river. It could simply be docked and serve as a restaurant. The river could be adjusted, perhaps made narrower, with the back end disappearing to create access points. I believe that imagineerings skilled designers could address any traffic flow issues effectively. It seems unlikely that imaginary involved in the decision to destroy the river. this seems very much like a money grab from the likes of Joel, Bob, and Jeff
This is going to backfire ... mark my words. The MK has been losing less and less green space to merchandise carts, etc. It is starting to feel more like a carnival or state fair. Somewhere you go, walk around rides and then can't wait to leave because you are overwhelmed by crowds. This area is like the 'Central Park' of the MK ... an oasis away from crowds and hoards and lines. It might not seem crowded ... but that's the idea. It gives people a little time to recharge and escape and makes it feel more like a KINGDOM and less like a theme park. By putting a noisy track with speeding cards there, not only do you lose a little relaxation green space ... now you're going to go to the Haunted mansion and hear car engines. The whole idea of MK and DL was to create a themepark, which felt like a magical land of fairy tales and mystery. You were transported to a magical KINGDOM ... and did not feel like you were in the middle of a crowded carnival. If I am visiting Disney, I can't wait to do the rides and get the heck out of there because of all the people. Recharging my batteries in that space might allow me the sanity to have a meal (counter-service or restaurant), linger for an extra ride, or just walk around and/or shop a little. There's no going back from this change. And it's clear Disney doesn't give a squat about anything other than IP ... the whole idea behind Rivers of AMERICA was to inspire kids through the spirit of the founding of this country. Now, it's trash talking cars. Lame Disney.
Wow! you are completely wrong. 1. You can go behind BTM to the west. 2. You could modify the island by narrowing it. 3. You can use the Riverboat as transportation to get to the area behind BTM 4. Saying they would have to destroy structures to make pathways. Well that's 100% better than destroying the Rivers of America for a knockoff Cars ride. 5. The Tomorrow Land Speedway is a much better option for a Cars themed area. The real reason for the removal. Disney decision makers hate expansionist America and this area is completely associated with that tine period. They Hate America.
Firstly yall are blind. You wouldn't add a path and modify the island since it would look ugly and yall are completely against the river being made into something worse right? Making the river boat into a transportation vehicle it would probably break down more since probably more people will ride it and will quickly get replaced by a ferry probably but who knows they could fix it. Secondly they don't have america because if they did they wouldn't theme the cars road trip into an expedition into American mountains and would've removed fourth of July fireworks a long time ago. You should've just said "just dont add a land in the back" since they wouldn't touch the river.
@ascallednobody Modification to the Rivers of America is completely different than filling it in and placing an out of place knockoff version of Cars in it. Why would it have too look ugly? Expansion era America. You haven't been paying attention to political agendas being pushed by this company if you can with a clear conscious say that the decision makers inside Disney respect America. They clearly hate it and the people who love it. Both are undesirable now. Yes the River boat would be used more and would require more maintenance. It would still require a physical walking path to get behind BTM. The monorail, trains, busses, skyway, boats all require maintenance. That area behind BTM should be the new Frontier Land Disney can put all the undesirable problematic stuff in a Frontier Rivertown. Move the train north add a boat dock. For the island, add a swing bridge for more convenient access.
Yes, I'm beginning to believe that "Westward Ho!" and "Manifest Destiny" are an inconvenient truth that Disney is quietly trying to erase. Thanks DEI Disney folk. Look, our history is kind of messy and at times cruel, but the America we know today wouldn't exist if our ancestors had stopped at the Louisiana Purchase. That said, this new plan is really pathetic. Frontierland is all but pushed to the periphery like some ugly afterthought.
@phillyguy199 Everywhere has a messy history. Look at Adventure Land for the messy history of 3 empires British, French, Spanish. Don't see Jungle Boat Cruise or Pirates being removed small changes sure but not removal.
You act like the imagineers can do anything they want to the park. You have to remember, imagineers do not control the park, there are multiple groups of people this has to go through like operations, maintenance, horticulture, local government bodies, and multiple others just to be approved. ALL parties must agree when doing something that major. The pathway I showed in the video has the least amount of resistance, destroying very little of the park without adding much complexity. Once you start repositioning and rebuilding structures, it becomes significantly harder to get something approved. You need to critically think about these things. Also, this video has to do with beyond big Thunder and the logistical challenges that come with it, idk why are you trying to convince me it should go into Tomorrowland lol
A company with massive land holdings and nearly unlimited money doesn't "need to" destroy major aspects of the parks to add lame rides that no one is asking for. Weird cope.
I feel like it would’ve been better if Cars Land had moved to Disney Hollywood Studios to replace Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge (since Disney doesn’t handle Star Wars well) so we can have a Pixar Land!
Do you really believe your ridiculous opinion or is this just click bait? To suggest Disney can't build bridges, when it's built many of them, is nonsense. As a former cast member, I know there is a very simple way to get to those areas. Tron and Space Mountain are also outside of the railroad tracks. I'm reporting you for a misleading title and clickbait to TH-cam also.
@@ChriswithaKhe's right. They can build a path west of TM under the train tracks. Remove that train station. Widen the path and relocate the station north of TM to the new cars land above TM. Rivers is SAVED. The RIVER WAS NEVER THE PROBLEM. It's Disney's apathy and lying to the public. There is room as stated above to take people into cars land behind TM.
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For a few days, I honestly thought this was a joke. They’d better not mess with Disneyland’s Rivers of America. It’s iconic to our original park ❤
As explained in the video, they didn’t need to alter Disneyland’s Rivers of America too much since the infrastructure was already there
@@ChriswithaK yes, I got that. I should have stated that I meant I hope they don’t close it for any new attraction idea in the future. I really enjoy your videos on both channels and your thorough explanations. I have learned so much! ❤️
@@tinkershell1856they wouldn't they knew not to touch it since it's the original that's why they have disneyland forward and they already modified
I thought it was a joke too, you’re not alone. Stupid decision to remove ROA, plain and simple.
They already have a Cars Land in Disney’s Cashgrab Adventure!
Oh, cool, let’s remove something that’s a timeless centerpiece and replace it with an old IP that will be changed 15 years from now. Totally makes sense…
It’s even worse that it had to be a Pixar IP in the middle of a castle park
Exactly, and in the meantime we'll be getting straight-to-streaming Cars 5, Cars 15, Cars 72 - all for the sake of keeping the IP "relevant."
@@thomasismail1066 probably because people don’t know how to respect experiences like those
It definitely makes sense, but it doesn’t make it any less fucking stupid.
A solution may be to go behind Big Thunder Railroad as there is a rather wide buffer zone there. Create a "mountain pass" from the frontier train station to the left of the train tracks with a high mountain wall on the west side and a barrier between the pathway and the railroad tracks. A new pedestrian bridge can be built along side of the train crossing. This would actually put you inside the expansion area without having to cross the tracks.
As far as the riverboat is concerned and the maintenance cost, just a make modern replica that looks and sounds like the real thing but is actually electric, diesel or natural gas.
I think the real problem is that Disney does not want to do the hard part. No new permits, no new land prep, no new infrastructure (bathrooms, food service). Just level an existing area and put in something new whether it fits or not.
Yes, you’re absolutely right. I made the video with the assumption that the land was feasible to build on and that Disney was able to get the areas around the river rezoned. Without that, there is no elegant way of getting people back behind the river like at Disneyland
Agreed
I just hope the current unfair plan ain’t because of well thei recent proposed rainwater tax laws in some us states, akak if anyone hasn’t read the news!!
Initially there was an expansion plan many years ago that literally placed a new walking path behind Big Thunder and the Train station. That way they would easily be able to access the expansion pads and not have to mess with the River at all. If I remember correctly, they planned to have it dump out next to Small World.
@@Cheezbat and that was planned out even mixed with the trees and link to expansion areas+ loop from thunder mountain to the mansion too
Honestly they should've just made a bridge into tom sawyer but (it would've probably looked bad) and removed half the river and made Liberty bell to be stationed into a walkthrough and or moved
That was my thought too. Can shorten the river and permanently dock the Liberty Bell. Then the pathway size issue by Big Thunder wouldn’t be an issue. I’m overall fine getting rid of Tom Sawyer Island and the boat as a ride as they didn’t seem that popular, but keeping part of it for the aesthetics would have been nice.
Best and only? If by your explanation, there is no access to a behind Big Thunder Mountain Carsland, then why not replace the Tomorrowland Speedway, which no one particularly likes anyhow, with Carsland? As Fresh Baked noted, Carsland is any area with cars that have eyes. They aren't limited to a Southwest or Western theme. That said, couldn't guests access a new Carsland by going to the left of Big Thunder Mountain, where all of those trees are currently? Removing RoA is one of the worst ideas Disney has ever had and with recent decisions, that's saying a lot. It's completely scatter brained. I thought demolishing Innoventions West was a big mistake, but this Americana destruction takes the cake!
As I said in the video, this is the only solution if you were to do Beyond Big Thunder. In fact, in the beginning of the video I expressed my distaste with the idea of Cars Land being right in the middle of Frontierland. I also never said there weren't other places this expansion couldn't go.
@@ChriswithaK Unless I'm missing some aspect of the topography, I don't see why a large path can't be made to the left of BtM, with a draw bridge over the little canal and as for Villians land, there are many ways to get to that area to the left of the Haunted Mansion and from Fantasyland.
What a hateful thing for Disney to do.
I understand what you are saying, however, I think that there are solutions for many of these issues that you bring up.
I would start by moving the train station beyond Big Thunder and mark it as the split between Car’s area and Frontierland. The walkway does not have to be on the River of America side of Big Thunder it can be near the train tracks, under, over and around the area. I can think of 3 or 4 options there.
On the Haunted Mansion side, I would take out the current queue. Turn that space into a walkway and along the side of the Haunted Mansion build a split-level haunted town. The upper level would have shops and a haunted bar/restaurant. The lower level would be the HM queue and walkway to the new area.
That would require bulldozing the train station, haunted mansion queue, and Tiana’s queue while also building lower down into the utilidoors. You have to remember, imagineers do not control the park, there are multiple groups of people this has to go through like operations, maintenance, horticulture, local government bodies, and multiple others just to be approved. ALL parties must agree when doing something that major.
The pathway I showed in the video has the least amount of resistance, destroying very little of the park without adding much complexity. Once you start repositioning and rebuilding structures, it becomes significantly harder to get something approved.
Arm chair imagineering is one thing, but real life is a completely different story.
@@ChriswithaK I am sorry if I gave the impression that I thought my suggestions were going to be easy or cheap. No, it would take lots of money and someone with strong leadership to pull this off, along with getting everyone to sign off on this.
I hope that you didn’t take my post as an attack on your information. You position is 100% solid and well presented.
Why couldn’t Disney just shorten the river and installed a dock like they have at Disneyland for the repairs? This could allow for the installation of wider paths, solve the issue of getting the boat out of the magic kingdom, and keep the rivers of America in some form.
Exactly! Or make the River a loop at each end connected by a stream that would allow the boat to travel each way. That way you solve the width problems and still have access to the connecting canals.
Because they’re so short sighted in their thinking.
Ive never been to Magic Kingdom in my life, but this announcement makes me mad as if ive been there before.
Theres plenty of useable land BEHIND BIG THUNDER that could be used! Or what about using Tom Sawyer Island as a mini Cars Land or something?
Really mad at this, and hopefully it NEVER HAPPENS at my home park Disneyland.
“The only way to bring Beyond Thunder Mountain to life is to destroy Rivers of America.”
Maybe don’t bring Beyond Thunder Mountain to life….
Steve Jobs and Walt Disney were great at telling imbeciles like this “NO”.
Being able to shut down idiotic, be it logical, ideas was both of those men’s greatest asset into their design philosophy. Unfortunately, when you remove the intelligent overseers, you end up with Lightning McQueen, unannounced, in your driveway.
They could’ve just made pathways behind the river
My personal theory is that villains land ended being so big that it took up most of the land alotted for the expansion
it’s called parking the boat, turning that into a restaurant, and building bridges if that’s the case, but filling the river in ruins one of the only parts of the park that feels breathable
it does not have to happen.
*crawls out from under a rock*. They’re doing what now? 😂
This is the people mover scenario all over again 😢
I liked the riverboat it was relaxxing
Maybe they can relocate the Liberty Bell to Disney Springs.
This was a great video and I can totally see your point of view. And it makes sense why Disney is going this route because all they care about is cost-cutting at every turn. I think in the end it’s gonna come back to bite them.
We’ve constructed 1,000-foot skyscrapers, sent men to the moon, and built the entire Magic Kingdom area, complete with two hotels and a monorail, in roughly four years (admittedly with much less focus on health and safety). Nothing is impossible, as you said. We could easily remove the boat and keep the river scenery which is what sets them apart from the rest of the competition.
The truth is, they simply don’t want to spend the money to do it. From a financial standpoint, I don’t blame them, but it’s still disappointing as these pushed back land expansions will help spread the guests out over bigger distances making it all feel less crowded.
And Replace Galaxy’s Edge in Disneyland for Discoveryland:
Replace Rise of the Resistance for an Expedition Everest Style Journey to the Center of the Earth, Replace Millennium Falcon’s Smuggler Run for A reimagined 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, and Change the Batuu aesthetic for a Jules Verne aesthetic!
The best part of your video is explaining how difficult it is to service the Liberty Belle. What a shame they didn't learn from Disneyland and build a suitable dry dock nearby like Disneyland has with Fowler's Harbor. So, I "buy" the argument they needed to retire the Liberty Belle.
But I absolutely do not buy the argument that they couldn't then dramatically modify the shape of the river and islands to accommodate a walkway on either side: a rustic boardwalk of suitable width by Big Thunder Mountain and a path along Haunted Mansion. Once the river is drained, the earth-moving is straight-forward, as we saw at Disneyland. The entire queue could have been moved above Haunted Mansion and in fact combined with an incredibly popular Haunted Mansion bar or restaurant to pay for it.
(The Cars attractions will cost $200-$300 million so these paths are the least of the budgetary concerns.)
They could have retired the Liberty Belle, built these paths, enhanced Tom Sawyer's Island with new interactive discoveries (re-name it if necessary) and create a bridge from the new cross-path from HM to BTM to get to it. That would have preserved the river as a scenic element (no more wasteful than World Showcase Lagoon and many other bodies of water in theme parks worldwide).
Then the Cars attraction could have gone where the upper portion of the lake was and Villains land to the right connecting to Fantasyland. Or put the Cars land in Hollywood Studio or replacing Tomorrowland speedway with a planetary explorers/rovers theme with fantastical other-worldly landscape.
And if they absolutely, absolutely HAD to put an attraction right exactly where Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer's Island are in the heart of Frontierland, they should have dreamed up a WATER RIDE so that it...had water still! They could have innovated on the decades old "river rapids" style ride with such features as:
1. Three rows of forward-facing seating with increasing "water shield" side panels from front to back. Sit in the back if you want to stay dry, sit up front if you want to get wet.
2. Elevator lift. Boat goes into a perforated elevator basket/cage and is lifted directly up (inside the mountain) and release up high, saving land. Theme it like you'r being blasted up by a geyser or in a mine or mill.
3. Like other "water coaster" attractions at other parks, have exciting drops.
With these, and other, innovations, Disney could have created essentially Rivers of America 2.0 ... an exciting new take on the Rivers of America. It could have linked all the different biomes around Frontierland together from New England's rushing rivers to the exciting bayou to desert old west rapids. It could have been *the* signature E-ticket attraction that made all of Frontierland make sense. And best of all, people would not be rejecting it like the anthropomorphic Cars ride, because it would make sense. It would look and feel "right" in Frontierland.
Give its a Woody, Jessie, Bullseye theme, if IP is necessary. That franchise has more movies and has made more money than Cars anyway.
Really cool ideas man. I mean, I would have started with keeping the entire river and plussing the whole thing, but even if you had to cut off the back 3rd like at Disneyland's, your key point about doing ROA 2.0 is spot on! And you mentioned a number of cool ideas if they felt obliged to drop in an e ticket in that ROA space. Big Thunder in Paris boards off the island and goes through an underground tunnel. I know Florida has a high water table but get that imagination and engineering ramped up! Hire you to get us ROA 2.0 integrated properly.
We have waiter springs racers, right in California adventure
What I would have done was build a New Orleans land behind Tina bayou adventure that would then lead to cars land. The villain land entrance would just be at tangled bathrooms.
Yes, it would be a tight squeeze.
Now I'll never see Florida's rivers of America in real life😮
i guess we keep people mover and disneyland keeps rivers of america? what a sad reality we live in :/
I’m an old (60+) and classic Disney fan. For me, PIXAR is not Disney, for example. Put all these brands (Marvels, Star Wars and so) at Hollywood Studios. Or in the already messy DCA. The park launched the Theming Nightmare Age! And thinking that Walt Disney invented a theme park exactly for being tired of the mess of visual information at those old carnival fairs!!! Disney should create new things for the Magic Kingdom following It’s original ideas! Walt Disney was smart enough to not tie any of the original lands of his first theme park, Disneyland, to any movie in particular. The rides could be related to some movies, but not the lands. It’s a safer way not to became outdated fast. They already ruined the fantastic Epcot Center from the 80’s. Now is the Magic Kingdom in jeopardy!!!!! They have enough land at WDW to build new things without eliminating some Walt Disney’s classic creations. It seems that the “Today Disney” doesn’t care or respects the real legacy of It’s once whole world beloved name! So sad!!! ☹️
they can just park the boat and not fill in the rivers then
Should have included explanations as to how paths west of Big Thunder and/or from Fantasyland wouldn't work, either.
I make a lot of great points. Of course, they could build a different path to your 8:46 proposed site for Cars Land and Villians Land via a themed tunnel from Fantasy Land like the tunnel to Star Wars. That would allow them to keep the Liberty Bell and the construction (which will take a long time) will be out of site.
While sad RoA is on the list, I hope Disney makes something useful with Liberty Belle like leaving it on display at Port Orleans Resort.
I wish they'd just start another small park (of which Villains might be a large part) that could use the same parking lots and hotels around Seven Seas It wouldn't have to be a full size park at the beginning and could grow. heck. they could build Monsters, inc, Cars, and Villains, Tropical Americas there. Done. and leave Hollywood to Hollywood, Animal Kingdom to animals and Frontier to frontier. Plus charge a whole new ticket price to pay for it rather than their current plan which does not cost one more day ticket.
This isn’t California where they can just add another theme park across from Disneyland without issue, this is Walt Disney World. The only way for guests to get from one place to another is by using Disney’s transportation systems.
The bus transportation system is one of the biggest expenses at the Walt Disney World resort. Adding a new theme park would mean adding a new bus route to every Disney hotel plus Disney Springs and the other parks in the resort for park hopping. The number 1 way of making more money in business is not to raise prices or add more options for consumers, it’s to reduce costs. It’s the reason why the skyliner was added and partially the reason why the magical express was removed.
Also the parks at Walt Disney World have a significantly lower attendance than the Magic kingdom, with Hollywood studios and animal kingdom being extremely close to islands of adventure at USF. If they were to add an additional park, they would even further reduce people coming to those parks. It would be much smarter to increase the capacity of their current parks before expanding to another park.
I don’t agree with what they’re doing to the river, but adding a new theme park just compounds all the issues Disney is already having.
Yea, not crazy about all of this. Wish it could be preserved pretty much as is. I thought maybe keep a bit of river in front loading area for looks and aster is, keep shop permanently docked as a walk on/off attraction and/or a food service, if filling in the remainder were necessary. At least that would maintain the facade of the land and time setting. The rover would just “fade out” around the bend. That idea could also lend itself to some water spray or evening show.
It was fine for 50 years. They could built outside of the berm. Our tastes are in rapid decline if they think this is acceptable. They are destroying the Magic Kingdom significantly. It is starting to not look like Disney World. I got the album The Legacy Collection: Disneyland just so I can listen to the rides I remember from my memories, many of which don't or won't exist anymore. They want to remove everything scenic, romantic, and peaceful in place of thrill rides. This ride could be enjoyed by grandparents and the youngest of children together, and they just threw it into a dust bin.
Also, they have the money to build two entirely new lands, they can afford to build a new walkway if this project really does matter to the company. They took a financial risk with Galactic Starcruiser and plenty of other high stakes ventures with Galaxy's Edge.
Cars land should have been placed behind fantasy land accessible from the circus area and Villainsland should have been its own park.
Horrible, Horrible, horrible!
They are not thinking long term.
Putting a Cars ride in HWS would be the best place for it, but where? Star Wars Launch Bay. How important is it? Important enough that the ones in Disneyland and Shanghai are both closed. The only issue is I have no clue what the rest of the building is for, but say they get rid of it, along with the two small parking lots next to it. That will be giving Cars about over 6 acres of land compared to the 4 acres in Rivers of America. From this spot, Cars could also have 3 entrances from Toy Story Land, Animation Courtyard, and Sunset Blvd. Still, what is that building for? Can it just be relocated?
That’s one of two rumored locations for Monsters Inc land as well.
They were just lazy to think where they could put Cars...They prefer to erase a great cool historic theming for just entertainerment. If you want to a lot of ride, go to a funfair 💁
What will happen to the ship? Discovery Island is large enough they could move the ship, Tom Sawyer Island and even Frontier land there. The Liberty Belle could give a few long tours of Bay Lake and such. Or will it sail The Sassagoula River?
But talking and singing bears were totally in the frontier, in fact I saw a grizzly a few weeks ago who who sang me a sad song near Yosemite.
bears did exist in the 1880s yes
I can think of one idea that would save Rivers of America. Remove Small World, store it away for a while, then, you can make a much larger path through right to the area where these new lands are being built. And as for Small World, it won't be completely gone. For it will be remade in this new area with a better facade like the one at Disneyland. That's what I would do.
The cost & difficulty of moving the riverboat to dry dock are a real issue, but the other reasons for getting rid of the ROA don't seem insurmountable. My hunch is the main reason they're ripping out the river is for the same reason they tore out Epcot's Fountain of Nations. Or why they're wasting big dollars on ripping out a perfectly good attraction, Splash Mountain, in order to satisfy some odd creative-political agenda. Back in 2001, the Disney Co poured hundreds of millions of $$ into their very mediocre California Adventure. IOW, the planners back then actually didn't think they were creative clods. So the past predicts the future.
Are we just going to pretend that tunnels don’t exist?
Yes, because this whole tirade is anti-americana cope.
I originally answered that in video. You can not build a tunnel that goes under the river/thunder mountain that is Ada compliant, it’s going to be too steep. The only way to do it is to start the tunnel back where the exit is in Thunder Mountain.
There is also foundation work under thunder mountain unless you expect Disney to burrow through it and cause issues for the attraction.
Additionally, this is Florida, the state where rain is a massive issue. Disneyland has a sort of tunnel leading to Mickey’s ToonTown and that gets flooded during rain storms. Imagine loosing one of your major entrances because it rains.
2:45 Triss plan better can work out and though remove few trees but leave thousands more unscaved in the area even when seeing the park form google maps, akak mix inbetween sparks and trees good ecosystem and life support in the area ( houghnpeopsed dubailand was all clustered together due to lifelessness in the current desert, though taking its time to build though)
Putting Cars land in Hollywood studios was the original plan, I thought. What made them change it?
They put Galaxy’s Edge where Cars Land was supposed to go.
@@Cheezbat I could have sworn it was going to go beyond ToT. It was supposed to begin construction right after Galaxies Edge. Shows what I know..
They’ve got plenty of land to build on in Florida. Doesn’t make sense at all until you admit to the influence of internal politics.
Let’s also not forget the fact that guests often already take a boat to get to the Magic Kingdom. Most guests are not going to waste time going on a second boat given that they will have already used a boat to get to or leave the magic kingdom.it’s basically a redundant attraction for the magic kingdom, especially in comparison to Disneyland.
Though the boat inside the park is an attraction altogether and scenic for wanting the rest in the middle of the day
@@mikeohawk95 but once again, Disney does not care about the guests who basically don’t want to be in the park. They are trying to increase capacity that way they can fill more people into the park and therefore sell more tickets.
@@SagaciousSilence and additional land usage up tot eh limits(to evade eco disters) is the proper way to hosue more stuff and guests + built up to the lad limits and not waste the alrady made rivers is the best way to buid a best cars wilderness and and villions land!!
@@mikeohawk95 The river boat was relaxing
@@SagaciousSilence "Disney does not care about the guests..." Sell more tickets when the park is already at an atrocious capacity. Many, many people go to Disney World because of the nostalgia they have for it. It becomes alot less compelling when more and more of the rides they remember from their childhood are not there to visit any longer. Disney World is not Six Flags which updates each year by building another roller coaster. I want to ride Pirates, or the Haunted Mansion, because I remember having an awesome time, 20, 15, 10 years ago on it and want to pass those memories to my own children. Universal is building an entirely new park while the original park still keeps many older rides even though most of theirs are not as beloved as Disney's are. The Riverboat is not as redundant as you think. Most people actually take the monorail. The Riverboat seldom if ever has capacity issues, pulls weight off busier attractions within the area like Splash Mountain (don't gaf about the refurb) or Big Thunder Mountain, and allows a wide variety of people, especially elderly or young children, a chance to enjoy the park for its atmosphere and atmosphere alone. Removing the boat is a big L for Disney when considerably less prestigious parks like Busch Gardens will keep their boats in operation, just as stupid as it was to take down the skyride in the 1990s. This is as big as removing the Disney World Railroad. It forms the physical geography of the park, the hub and spoke model that makes the park easy to navigate.
Epic mistake...
What are you talking about? Im looking at roads connecting to lands on the map. Also Toontown in Disneyland is behind the the rail road track. So they built a bridge so we walk under the tracks into Toon town. Then do the same here or build a nice long bridge with a low incline over the tracks. Wide and sturdy for cars and guests and some effects in tunnel for the train. The better idea would be to put it in the Hollywood park, but the best idea is to not do it all and fix park instead. Magic Kingdom will be another Six Flags soon.
At this stage Disney should scrap Cars all together, focus on Villains given the fandom have been asking for this for years, and focus on the rumoured Moana attraction behind Pirates instead.
I don't see any reason why the riverboat needs to be moving on the river. It could simply be docked and serve as a restaurant. The river could be adjusted, perhaps made narrower, with the back end disappearing to create access points. I believe that imagineerings skilled designers could address any traffic flow issues effectively. It seems unlikely that imaginary involved in the decision to destroy the river. this seems very much like a money grab from the likes of Joel, Bob, and Jeff
Yeah, giving you a thumbs down. 👎🏻
This is going to backfire ... mark my words. The MK has been losing less and less green space to merchandise carts, etc. It is starting to feel more like a carnival or state fair. Somewhere you go, walk around rides and then can't wait to leave because you are overwhelmed by crowds. This area is like the 'Central Park' of the MK ... an oasis away from crowds and hoards and lines. It might not seem crowded ... but that's the idea. It gives people a little time to recharge and escape and makes it feel more like a KINGDOM and less like a theme park. By putting a noisy track with speeding cards there, not only do you lose a little relaxation green space ... now you're going to go to the Haunted mansion and hear car engines. The whole idea of MK and DL was to create a themepark, which felt like a magical land of fairy tales and mystery. You were transported to a magical KINGDOM ... and did not feel like you were in the middle of a crowded carnival. If I am visiting Disney, I can't wait to do the rides and get the heck out of there because of all the people. Recharging my batteries in that space might allow me the sanity to have a meal (counter-service or restaurant), linger for an extra ride, or just walk around and/or shop a little. There's no going back from this change. And it's clear Disney doesn't give a squat about anything other than IP ... the whole idea behind Rivers of AMERICA was to inspire kids through the spirit of the founding of this country. Now, it's trash talking cars. Lame Disney.
Yikes! Your video makes a lot of sense.
The only good thing out of all of this is all the money I will save by never visiting WDW again.
Why not Hollywood studios
The outrage is over what its changing into not the change itself.
There were many people who were upset over the removal of the river, that is what this video is about.
They have plenty of land dude
I explain that in the video
Really? Remove and Fill in Rivers of America. Frankly , this is their Chef's kiss Up Yours to traditionslist customers. Disney is hopeless.
Wow! you are completely wrong.
1. You can go behind BTM to the west.
2. You could modify the island by narrowing it.
3. You can use the Riverboat as transportation to get to the area behind BTM
4. Saying they would have to destroy structures to make pathways. Well that's 100% better than destroying the Rivers of America for a knockoff Cars ride.
5. The Tomorrow Land Speedway is a much better option for a Cars themed area.
The real reason for the removal.
Disney decision makers hate expansionist America and this area is completely associated with that tine period.
They Hate America.
Firstly yall are blind. You wouldn't add a path and modify the island since it would look ugly and yall are completely against the river being made into something worse right? Making the river boat into a transportation vehicle it would probably break down more since probably more people will ride it and will quickly get replaced by a ferry probably but who knows they could fix it. Secondly they don't have america because if they did they wouldn't theme the cars road trip into an expedition into American mountains and would've removed fourth of July fireworks a long time ago. You should've just said "just dont add a land in the back" since they wouldn't touch the river.
@ascallednobody
Modification to the Rivers of America is completely different than filling it in and placing an out of place knockoff version of Cars in it.
Why would it have too look ugly?
Expansion era America.
You haven't been paying attention to political agendas being pushed by this company if you can with a clear conscious say that the decision makers inside Disney respect America.
They clearly hate it and the people who love it. Both are undesirable now.
Yes the River boat would be used more and would require more maintenance. It would still require a physical walking path to get behind BTM.
The monorail, trains, busses, skyway, boats all require maintenance.
That area behind BTM should be the new Frontier Land Disney can put all the undesirable problematic stuff in a Frontier Rivertown. Move the train north add a boat dock.
For the island, add a swing bridge for more convenient access.
Yes, I'm beginning to believe that "Westward Ho!" and "Manifest Destiny" are an inconvenient truth that Disney is quietly trying to erase. Thanks DEI Disney folk. Look, our history is kind of messy and at times cruel, but the America we know today wouldn't exist if our ancestors had stopped at the Louisiana Purchase. That said, this new plan is really pathetic. Frontierland is all but pushed to the periphery like some ugly afterthought.
@phillyguy199
Everywhere has a messy history.
Look at Adventure Land for the messy history of 3 empires British, French, Spanish.
Don't see Jungle Boat Cruise or Pirates being removed small changes sure but not removal.
You act like the imagineers can do anything they want to the park.
You have to remember, imagineers do not control the park, there are multiple groups of people this has to go through like operations, maintenance, horticulture, local government bodies, and multiple others just to be approved. ALL parties must agree when doing something that major.
The pathway I showed in the video has the least amount of resistance, destroying very little of the park without adding much complexity. Once you start repositioning and rebuilding structures, it becomes significantly harder to get something approved. You need to critically think about these things.
Also, this video has to do with beyond big Thunder and the logistical challenges that come with it, idk why are you trying to convince me it should go into Tomorrowland lol
A company with massive land holdings and nearly unlimited money doesn't "need to" destroy major aspects of the parks to add lame rides that no one is asking for. Weird cope.
hi
I feel like it would’ve been better if Cars Land had moved to Disney Hollywood Studios to replace Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge (since Disney doesn’t handle Star Wars well) so we can have a Pixar Land!
Do you really believe your ridiculous opinion or is this just click bait? To suggest Disney can't build bridges, when it's built many of them, is nonsense. As a former cast member, I know there is a very simple way to get to those areas. Tron and Space Mountain are also outside of the railroad tracks. I'm reporting you for a misleading title and clickbait to TH-cam also.
Did you even watch this video? lol
@@ChriswithaKhe's right. They can build a path west of TM under the train tracks. Remove that train station. Widen the path and relocate the station north of TM to the new cars land above TM. Rivers is SAVED. The RIVER WAS NEVER THE PROBLEM. It's Disney's apathy and lying to the public. There is room as stated above to take people into cars land behind TM.
Cars can be put behind rivers of america at magic kingdom just like how galaxy edge is at disneyland.
Bro did not watch the video😭🙏💀
the boat is as much of a staple as the castle.