Sorry about the intro on this one guys. You can probably already guess, but this was done for copyright reasons. Unfortunately I didn’t have enough time to re-edit the video with different footage, so this was the best solution. The good news is that I have uploaded the intro without the filters over on my Patreon! - It’s not paywalled so anyone can watch it: www.patreon.com/posts/gran-turismos-93625936? Whilst I’m here I may as well address a couple of things which I didn’t get to in the video. When it comes to the AI in rally events this is mostly the same as the normal races in each game. The general trend is that from GT1-4 the AI were decently fast but also pretty unaware and sometimes erratic. From GT5 onwards they became more aware but generally slower and less intense, with their actual speed often being manipulated to make them seem even slower than they are. One issue that every GT game has when it comes to rally is the invisible walls at each track. And not just because it’s annoying to bump into them, but also because it means the level of risk is severely reduced - which is a large part of the appeal of actual rally. But what seems to have been forgotten in the mists of time is that PD were at one point planning for there to be harsher consequences in GT4. Here’s an old interview with Kaz where he mentions the possibility for your car falling into the Grand Canyon if you make a mistake on that track: www.eurogamer.net/i-gt4-ps2 Also, just a small thing, but the spectators which jump in and out of cover at GT4’s ‘special conditions’ circuits is a really cool feature. This is most obvious at Grand Canyon where they will literally run into the middle of the road to take pictures before running back. Why this is specific to just a handful of circuits in GT4, and has never been brought back for the rally circuits in any of the later games either, is kind of a mystery to me, but it’s yet another thing that makes GT4’s version of rally so unique and interesting.
GT6 had multiple point to point rally stages that were not even set on this planet! Electric car from the 70's on the MOON - Titanium Metal Treaded Tyres - Perfect for carving up that green cheese lunar surface! - Great content as ever. I bought an actual real copy of GT3 because of you! - You interweb influencer you!
Another thing, the reason why the gold medals for the rally license events in GT2 are so easy is that the Japanese version had rally physics with less grip, which forced you to take the corners slower. Later versions gave you extra grip on dirt but didn't adjust the license times to compensate (or at least didn't adjust them much)
It comes down to perspective and resource management. Although GT never was the perfect base for pure Rallying, the same cannot be said for Hillclimb Racing or Touge. And they never explored that properly...
A pure hillclimb game would be a completely fresh and unexplored experience, instead of it being only tacked onto rally games. I want the KW Berg Cup grid, and a career mode where the player rises through the performance factors to the top. The final tier would be either the FIA championship or Pikes Peak. I need Normas and other prototypes, repurposed formula cars, extreme touring cars (not just the Pikes Peak ones, EU too), the slower touring car classes, repurposed rally and circuit racers like a Skoda Fabia WRC or a Z4 GT3, historic hillclimb cars, some dirt hillclimbs from the US and a selection of cars from those, british hillclimbs and their unique formula cars, the GLP as a small second game mode, etc... SO MUCH POTENTIAL.
One thing you may not have known was that Dirt 4's procedurally generated stages were just sections of track predesigned by the developers and then just kind of stuck together over a rally course. You drove over a lot of the same types of road and the placement of objects was always the same.
Yeah, that's the definition of "procedurally generated". You create a procedure, and then you generate stuff based on the procedure. No one said it was "randomly generated".
6:23 The reason the GT2 dirt-track license tests are so easy is because the international versions of the game changed the rally physics to make the cars much more grippy, but didn't change the time requirements to accommodate this. In the original Japanese version the off-road handling is much more slippery so the gold times are a lot harder to beat.
I think GT4's narrow Special Condition circuits were designed with GT3's handling model in mind, simply because in GT4 Prologue (which retains GT3's handling model), Citta di Aria and Grand Canyon are playable, and I think GT3's handling model makes them a fair bit easier to navigate for novice players.
A surprisingly positive overview of GT4's rally events in particular. Too often, discussion around GT4 Special Condition events boils down to specific talking points: "penalties suck", "cars have no grip on dirt/snow", "RSC grind is game-breaking" etc., so it's nice to see a more in-depth perspective. I agree that the new-to-GT4 tracks are a lot of fun; Grand Canyon is so satisfying to hotlap around once you learn the track. Something worth mentioning though is the imbalance between rally cars in GT4, and how inferior rally cars are overall. In general, newer cars have much better chassis/grip stats than older ones, and the Celica and Delta Integrale really struggle to apply their power out of corners, compared to the newer Impreza and Evo rally cars. Even then, their lowly 13 / 18 downforce makes them grip less than an Impreza Spec C road car with a rear wing and 30 / 30 downforce. This isn't helped either by how awful the stock setups are on rally cars (8 bounds/rebounds, 1.0 rear camber and 6/6 stabilisers?), so understeer and lack of traction are big issues until you soften the suspension, lengthen the gears and set the center diff to 50 : 50. GT4's rally redeems itself IMO once you keep these things in mind and work around its (admittedly unfair) penalty system.
I really need to re-plugin my PS3 just to play GT6 again. GT6 was my first GT game and I have so many memories, the only other GT games I’ve played are GT Sport and GT7
One thing to mention about GT4's rally is the amazing atmosphere and details to it, the crazy spectactors with cameras, background noises, it's amazing
My rating for rally in GT PSP is a 7/10 Really close to the one in GT4, with all the circuits and a new one added, and as driver missions are optional license tests, any rally stage is accessible from the get-go, with the Pontiac Vibe GT being one possible starter car as a bonus, so you have a car to enter (plus the 100k cash at the very start lol). But the cars are limited, as most of them are restricted to road tires only. The usual form of 1v1 remains and with the time trial mode, you also have the form of rally from GT2 (but obviously, against yourself). My major problem is more of the game itself, that being the fact that your only incentive to engage with certain things is entirely a preference thing. Time trial, drift, rally and circuit are all just options for you to get money the way you want. So if you want to do only one thing, you can get away with the lack of variety
I'm only 3 minutes in, and I'm already amazed with the fact that not only you share my views regarding rally drivers but also that you are using music both from Sega Rally 1 and Sega Rally 2, which are the games that are most close to my heart in terms of rally racing or motorsport in general for that matter. You're the best, dude!
Another thing that actually bugs me: In GT2, they have an ice car (Tigra Ice Car for exact) but no ice track for that, and in GT4, they finally have an ice racing track (two if you count Chamonix and account Snow conditions as one) but not the Tigra Ice Car. God forbid how the ice car would drive on those ice tracks...
The importance of rally in the series was almost always parallel to the importance of WRC in the real world. Once the championship started to become irrelevant, Kazunori also stopped focusing on it as well.
i would love to see the course maker in GT7. Something they could add in the future if they still don't want to put rally stages (or togue) are the courses that are featured in MF Ghost, which basically are togue made closed circuits.
To be fair, and despite Rally being quite neglected, some of the most fun I've had in GT7 was taking the 90s Celica rally car to the red chili event where you have to race the modern GT86 rally car at Fishermans Ranch. It was a 1v1 and reminded me a lot of GT3/GT4. Wish they had more of these races, they should be the standard.
They do have more, there's a 1v1 race at each of the three base dirt courses. The disappointing part is that they didn't include similar events at the new off-road courses.
instead of mimicking rally events, they were more to mimicking dirt trial events which are popular in japan ..even ebisu circuit was born as dirt trial circuit bfr drifting came over
I've always seen DiRT 4 as being the "Gran Turismo of Rally games" because it has everything that GT has: buy and selling used cars, upgrading vehicles, money management and strategy, multiple disciplines and vehicle types, so many campaign events, time trials, even has a team management and partnerships system. I think its the best DiRT Single-Player experience.
@co.1157 As someone who’s put so many hours in DiRT4 (since its launch, on PS4), I have to agree with the sentiment. After you're done with the main Career Mode, there’s basically nothing you can do; after that. Sure, there’s Joyride Mode; but, it just feels like a soulless iteration of Gymkhana from DiRT3/Showdown, regardless of which handling model you’re personally using. Also, I don’t know if people are still playing DiRT4's Multiplayer (that isn’t just Rallycross, nor Competitive scene); at least, in-console, anymore. Also, the game’s branding and atmosphere/aesthetic just feels cold and cynical. Sure, a video game's aesthetic is subjective. But, it feels like Codemasters didn’t know if they wanted DiRT4 to be a try-hard oriented simulator, like the DiRT Rally games. But, also didn’t want to alienate casual players; who (probably) also played the previous arcade-oriented DiRT installments. Hence, why they’d even brought back Land Rush racing; despite, being the most despised class/segment, in the game. Like, regardless of its features, DiRT4 would’ve been looked more favorably; if, Codemasters took their time to figure out what they wanted the game to be, tone and personality-wise. And, probably implemented other forms/classes of off-road racing, like in previous DiRT titles. If, they were willing to pay for the licensing fees for certain manufacturers and sanctioning bodies of certain (off-road) racing championships. Also, could’ve had more environments/countries used for rally stages.
I wanted to like that game so bad. But dang. The weird handling and instability on PC were untenable, especially coming from the buttery and polished experience of DiRT 3 & DiRT Rally on the same platform.
Still love all the 90s rally cars on my GT2 save, every 90s impreza and lancer decal, along with the celicas, megane, lancias, peugeots, citroens, escort, corolla etc etc
Now that I watched your video, I now understand why Gran Turismo doesn’t take rallying too seriously. It had a very awkward history. I still have hope for Gran Turismo, and I love rallying no matter what. I just race, and wait for what Polyphony is cooking up next.
Quick fun fact about the advanced difficulty toscana rally in gt5, prior to the update 2.0 (or spec 2.0) there was no Performance Points (PP) being enforced on the event, only the horsepower limit, so what you could use the Ferrari F1 car detuned to the exact 350hp cap in order to use it
You needed to detune you car only to load a race. After that you could go to te tunning menu right before the race itself and tune your car back to 100% power, making the race even more incredible easy.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but personally I never liked rally in GT. I understand *why* it's been included historically, after all how can you have a game dedicated to car culture and automobile industry without featuring the iconic machines which brought the likes of Colin mcrae, Sebastian loeb and tommi makinen to world champion status, but considering the technical limitations and driving physics I'd rather play a dedicated WRC game like the one that ran alongside Gran Turismo back in the day by Evolution Studios or currently by Codemasters/Milestone, same with Formula class vehicles. I mean you couldn't even have more than a couple opponents until GT5
I found WRC thanks to tv. I fell in love with WRC thanks to GT. Amongst my friends I was the GOAT on dirt with the 206 WRC and Tahiti Maze (the track we used). I miss those days. With love: a 40 year old man who still plays GT.
One of my mates worked on GT5, I can remember losing my s*** with him over the citroen C4 on snow with tarmac tyres, and some of the points you bring up here, but for what ever reason, this is what the higher-ups wanted. mind blowing really.
I'm not 100% sure about this. But seems to me the AI in GT4 dirt and snow events are broken, really faster than in tarmac. To me is the hardest events in the game except mission 34.
What made rally in GT special for me, similar to Circuit racing in GT, was that at least some of the events took place with normal cars. And by that I don't mean road legal sportscars like Evos, Imprezas, or M3s, but also that red hatchback your neighbour used to drive in the 90s. That might even be part of the reason why Gran Turismo Sport isn't a "number title". I think the best would be to go back to the Special Events of GT4, and make a dedicated section in the career about narrow streets, loose surfaces, and maybe even mixed surfaces. And for the love of god either give up the exclusive rights for Pikes Peak or give us some actual Pikes Peak content! Even Electronic Arts had the decency to throw in a 911 in like every 4th Need for Speed game
Even though I have rally games like dirt and wrc…even Sebastian Loeb rally…I always appreciated the gran turismo take on rally…and since I loved gt 4 so much growing up, I still have GT psp installed on my vita.
While I respect everyone 's right to have an opinion, I think one thing that's missing in this analysis for me is the fact that GT allowed you to take just about anything on a dirt track. The whole appeal of GT was not just Motorsport from the perspective of race cars on real tracks, but the ability to take a car that you may own in real life and put it in a racing environment. Understandably if you are a rally fan, that may not scratch any itch, but as a rally fan myself I thought it was a pretty wonderful possibility, so the abundance or lack of rally vehicles was never too much of an issue for me.
I think the biggest issue I have with GT4's prize cars in the Special Conditions Hall is Tsukuba Wet (Hard) You race Literal Le Mans Prototypes with zero handicap, on a reduced grip surface, on a tight track where handling and acceleration are crucial And you get a bog standard (even if contextually unique) Ford GT I know it can be beaten with a heavily upgraded Lancer or Impreza but it doesn't really line up
The rally in gt sport got me interested in focused rally games when I really wasn't before so I think if people get a taste of it in a game like GT7 or whatever it's still a good thing.
I think the reason they resorted to ghost cars in GT2 was because they couldn't make the AI competitive. Even in GT3's Arcade Mode (where rally was necessary to progress), I found the Easy AI and the Normal AI too forgiving for being allegedly a mirror match.
The rally physics in GT2 and GT3 were surprisingly, if not suspiciously, similar to Sega Rally's gameplay, and I loved it that way. When GT4 dropped I was so disappointed to see how much slower and unfun they made the physics on gravel/dirt. But the tarmac tracks are indeed fantastic. Yes, yet again another "GT4 was a mistake" post from me. Great video !
I will always complain immensely about how wide rally tracks are in all of them. The fact you have an entire car park worth of room to slide is nothing, nothing like what you see rally drivers doing. No cliffs, no trees, no threading the needle. Citta di Aria was such a treasure in that sense, but then even Lake Louise feels like yet another car park worth of sliding room.
I’d like to make a special mention to one car that Gran Turismo 4 added: The Mitsubishi Starion 4WD. The Starion 4WD was never properly rallied in the WRC. It was expected to show up for the 1986 RAC rally, but the announcement that Group B would be canceled after ‘86 made any effort in the program rather unnecessary. As the Starion, anyways. GT4 is likely the reason anyone knows about the car and its program, and I find that very fascinating. It’s not anything super interesting, such as the 288 Evo concept or any Group S prototypes, but the Starion is still interesting as an inclusion nonetheless.
i think the ideal situation is if Gran Turismo can combine the concept of rally racing with its strongest point which is its car roster, and create a sort of 'amateur rally' scene ... where instead of purpose built rally cars, you have road cars with modifications which can be conceivably be done by the average enthusiast such as tyre and suspension upgrades, and maybe a roll cage to simulate the safety regulations this would allow for some interesting sights, such as bringing your homemade shoestring weekend beater car to glamorous rally tracks all over the world
Very cool video thanks, it was nice to go through GT Rally history. In the end, I'd say that rallying in GT is closer to rallycross or simply off road track racing. Personally, I've always felt that rally never found its place in the games. Cars and tracks were there because GT is an overall racing game that features every category in the world, but rally being so specific, it never really had a proper representation of it (as I said, it was more rallycross and offroad track racing than proper rally). On one side rally cars were always highly represented with enough cars to make a rally game but we were missing all other aspects of rallying. Maybe, if GT wants to keep only closed circuit, I wonder why they never, for rallying, implemented a mode that looks like Sega Rally : closed circuits but with checkpoints and time running, that would feel a bit more like rallying, and despite having other cars with you, you're actually runinng against time. Also, among all the failures in terms of rallying for GT Sport and 7, the biggest one must be the cars. Honestly, I don't care if I only have 3 or 4 dirt/snow tracks to drive, what I really like are the cars, and the total absence of real rally cars (the only two being the 205 Turbo 16 and the recently added Celica Group A). These fictive Group B cars are indeed fast and pleasant to drive, but they just feel boring and without personality compare to real rally cars (and especially WRC). Good thing is you can recreate some of them thanks to car tuning system that came back in GT7.
Funnily enough, the way the course maker was employed by GT5 was already in a previous rallying game: International Rally Championship for the PC released in 1997. The game allowed you to randomly generate courses, both point-to-point and circuit style, in a bunch of different biomes, and you had similar options with a custom number of sections adding varied complexity. You could also add up to 30 of these courses (in addition to pre-made ones) to custom championships, deciding or randomising the conditions per race. I'm always for these sorts of options, as I much prefer setting up custom races in driving games over pre-made and often a limited number of championships. So the concept definitely wasn't novel by the time GT5 rolled around 10+ years later, especially because the underlying concept was p much the same.
My theory as to why we haven't seen Pikes Peak yet, is due to Kaz's realisim hunt. That road changes quite a bit each year, so in his eyes he would have to start over again and make it more realistic. But I don't know. I'm just some commentor on the internet. Great vid, keep 'em coming.
If anything it has to be system limitations. Unlike a circuit, it’s 12.2 miles point to point. That’s a lot of ground to cover and an enormous amount of scenery to get up to GT7’s standards that can also be run on PS4 & PS5. If it ever comes it will probably be limited to 1 or 2 cars on track at a time and will be useless for daily races and GTWS, which PD definitely care too much about regarding track choice
@@RowdyGT but the Nürburgring 24hr layout is nearly 16miles in length and Polyphony seems to have no trouble getting that to meet their standards 🤔 Granted it still is a circuit with fairly homogenous scenery but they still need to model a whole load of its local surroundings. If anything the lack of vegetation in the later Stages of Pikes peak make modelling it easier, no?
@@mrspandel5737 yes, towards the top it wouldn’t require as much work in terms of foliage but it’s exchanged with far more visibility around the landscape, and boulders. It will probably be loaded with invisible barriers too unless they just add reset points just outside the tarmac
Tip: If you want extremely difficult and fun rally, play BeamNG (yes i know it offers a lot more outside the rally nieche, but still), it is amazing, and with some mods (like the "Douglas Rally" mod), it gets even better.
When talking about rally in Gran Turismo, I feels like their idea back at GT4, seems to be the most realistic we could have, with the creativity of GT5 included. Current GT feels like a dirt race than a rally, I admit it (even Lake Louisiana resemble dirt race, a race in dirt/snow, than a rally with technical sector and pace notes) But here's the thing, GT seems to always be trying to accommodate everything (it's their only game, after all), with Gymkhana inspired event on GT Sport (I just knew that), and how they're trying to keep rally/dirt race in game, but that's the problem. They keep it for the sake of keeping it, so the player base will be satisfied, which we didn't, apparently. Sometimes I do questioning their approach to realism, where they're always boasting about how realistic GT7 is, but then there's stretched out start, with me in last, rally that feels like dirt race than rally, and... I dunno, they lost their touch, their authenticity, makes me wonder what do they do with the Pikes Peak license anyway. If they want to include rally in GT Sport, might aswell include it in a competition, then do it. The chaos seems like fun, than just zooming in circuit, but that's that, they just there, leaving us with few gravel track, without update. Which GT7 we started to get more.... In the end, I feels like they should reset their game once more, to the point every priority is clear. If GT supposed to be road only racing game, go for it, Forza Motorsport was known for being road racing game. Wanna include rally? Instead of squeezing it into GT, make a spin-off, kinda like Forza Horizon (although FH was meant against NFS, but their off-road physics is perfect to accommodate rally segment in Forza franchise), call it Rally Turismo or something, with different team that have their priority straight to rally. Worst thing possible, if Polyphony only care about detail on cars, they might aswell stop making Gran Turismo and make a game where we just be able to see details of cars and driving it for few laps, much like Forzavista if it's it own game. Hell, even I adore Forzavista's detail on car model more than just looking at how perfect my car looks on GT7 Ahem, again, that's that. I think GT should stop trying to be everything they could, and acquired the hyper realism, it's what makes the game lose focus, might aswell flop as hard as FM8, except only the old fan that seems to be able to see it
I think GT rally mode was always a form of define a different game driving style and not Rally in itself as we know it. I mean , in GT 1 you could select between Grip and Drift driving styles. If they call it Drift mode anyone would expect the D1 licensed track and cars. I mean , GT was never and it will never be 100% discipline real fidelity. Rally , Drifting , JGTC , BTCC , DTM , Nascar, etc , you can recreate some "aura" with some cars and some tracks , but to go 100% on some speciffic discipline its too much even for a game like GT. I think their vision of Rally its pretty nice and simple. Like a Sega Rally 2 but with Amazing graphics. Sega Rally isnt Rally or it is? I mean , i grew up with GT1 and 2 and i think think GT6 and GT Sport now are not too far from their original formula. I liked them all anyway and still waiting to have money to buy GT7 some day. Nice video , i like your channel and your devotion to this franchise , nice editions , a pleasure to watch and listen 😊
Man, the chase to get those esports dollars has really harmed video games. It's so hard to find big budget experiences these days. Competitive games are fun, but not when that's the only option. People joke about how they can't grasp how Nintendo keeps going. It's because they make games to be played by yourself or _with_ friends, not against them. Take Tekken. The games were really good up until online multiplayer came about. But now it's all about frame data and hitboxes. That isn't fun for most people. At least Tekken Tag Tournament tries to be lighthearted and content rich. But with no focus on content that isn't for PvP, games are just boring. Where is the _game_ part?
I feel this way for all aspects of Gran Turismo from GT4 onwards, which does link to the move to PS3. I feel like Polyphony went for "realism", and "content" over "feel", or even outright enjoyment. The more "professional" the image has become, the less fun these games are to play. I really want to enjoy, and I'm always suckered into buying the next installments, but they're just.. boring? Bland as you say. Sure, the cars might handle very realistically, but driving around in a long line of 16 cars in a deserted nurburgring gp circuit is not nearly as fun as 6 cars around apricot hill or red rock valley, or even El capitan.
This is probably the perfect time to say this but the move to the PS2 was when Polyphony started to show their bad game design and their spectacle > authenticity style of game. 3 started the timed race bs (4 is an exception) 4 started the stiff chase camera bs (Sport is an exception) 3 might be the 3rd best GT game and 4 might be the best GT game but we have to understand that those 2 started some bs that we see in Modern GT.
I'm actually wondering on whether the Prize Cars for GT4's rally events were bugged in a way that the rewards were reversed. Maybe you weren't meant to get something like the RCS Rally Raid Car on Easy, but on Hard instead. But seeing as how GT4 has a reputation for it's prize cars being unbalanced, nobody ever noticed this.
My feeling towards rally in Gran Turismo is quite unique. I see a potential not exploited and it simply breaks my heart. PD could definitely compete with EA's WRC if they really want to. The same thing apply for motorcycle, but that take is even more debatable. Sony should step in and expand the Gran Turismo universe with other studios working with/for PD.
I think the intent of GT3's rally structure is that you _wouldn't_ complete an entire event at once but would complete the easy races of them _all_ first followed by their intermediate and difficult races.
I would like to say Gran Turismo always had rally in mind but the implementation was always difficult because they knew where the core player base will spend most of their time, being on tarmac.
I get the feeling that Dirt racing was another victim of the rushed nature for the holiday season with GT2 (Much like the completely cut Drag Racing section).
I did noticed the lack of rally in GT5 back then when I first played it, as for GT6 boy it really went down hill, and now here we are fully restart and slowly putting everything back together as we speak, is just that is going to keep expanding more and more maybe in GT8 will, no I don't have high hopes of it but as long they add more events it should be fine. Now I would like to see your rating of the lisence and maybe the challange event some sort since you are going to go right ahead looking back in the past to the current day. I know I have to wait another month for it and the another update is coming close too, maybe in Christmas, who knows all I want is to expand bigger as much as possible.
I never liked the rally controls outside of 3. There it was smooth and felt almost like a dance to string the best movements together. Afterwards it’s just a mess of unpredictable understeer and your grip seems to be completely random on every corner. In 7 it’s just terrible, the car shakes so much it’s hard to focus and the car has a tendency to fly into the air on hitting bumps, pulling a wheelie and blinding you. Strange how these things work.
Not sure how hard it would be to make a decent procedural generator for rally stages, though it would be awesome to have something like that. Maybe it would be better to put together one or two track areas with a mix of tarmac and dirt sections that can be combined for different layouts. Those could be used for licence tests, especially early game events, and eventually special events. That's where you'd see rallycross layouts with a few cars, longer track versions for 1v1 races, and either single lap super long layouts or a point to point track as a rally stage. Given that PD likely wouldn't go for the latter as it doesn't conform to their idea of realism and all that, but there's a lot of options. What I find the most baffling is how they in many cases already have the content made (tracks and cars that is) and just don't bother combining both to create more events.
I loved the "Special Conditions" races in GT4, enjoying equally as the other mods in the game (the only time that happened to me in GT series). Always wanted a proper rally game (or something like the Codemasters' DIRT series, with more disciplines such Rallycross, Hillclimbs and Raids) from Polyphony because the resources of the company to bring a massive roster of cars. But sadly, we don't know if Polyphony have the same interest.
Eh, rally isn't even a thing in America, and the WRC isn't broadcast on TV here, even though Ford competes in the WRC, and I can buy a WRC game that's published by EA, also the "dirt event" was called "rally events" in the US version of the game.
This, along with the Endurance video for me, pretty much sums up how I feel about the Gran Turismo series GT1: A solid start GT2: Good progress, quantity over quality GT3: Quality over quantity. Insane quality even GT4: THE GOAT GT5: Good, but not as good as it should be GT6: yaaay 1000 cars yippeee but disappointing game GT7: All the potential in the world... but so far it is all wasted potential Sidebar: I get so pissed off when a new GT7 update is announced and they add more vision GT cars. I can't be the only person that gives ZERO shits about them. I want more random cars - gimme a '13 Dodge Avenger SXT, or a '21 TRD Avalon, or an '07 Mitsubishi Galant Ralliart. These cars, namely the Avenger or Galant, are first/early cars for a LOT OF PEOPLE - and the SXT/Ralliart models are the more fun, fast ones. I think they would be a hit if they got added, as lots of people can relate to them. They'd be amazing to see in the used car market. But nah we gotta have f*ckn hotwheels in the game. Disappointing.
*My ranking of Rally in GTs:* GT2: 7/10 great gameplay but a bit boring GT3: 9/10 awesome gameplay and cool tracks GT4: 5,5/10 weird physics but coolest tracks GT5: 3/10 awful physics GT6: 3/10 same as GT5 GT Sport: i have no opinion GT7: 5/10 not great but still better than the previous PS3 games
The handling in GRAN TURISMO 2 on Worldwide versions is surprisingly very grippy unlike Japanese versions. So thats why the gold medal times are very easy to get.
From time trials, Smokey Mountain South being Swiss Alps, varied cars, less tracks, GT2-4 great, GT5-7 it's hmm. New tracks Sport/7, big tracks eh events. GT/Forza few/no hill climbs/A-B tracks.
They need to release this or these games on PC because I, lol, want to play them so bad. To the point of having considered actually buying a console, but logic is that I already have a PC, still. Gran Turismo seem such good games. Oh well... At least they brought us Metal Gear Solid to PC :smiling_face:
I honestly love GT2 an GT4, I love the rally in both games, my only gripe with GT4's rally, is the god awful ground physics. I can literally drive sideways in the corners... it jus feels like your drivin on ice with random frozen dirt patches that suddenly yank your car like it's got snap oversteer (MR-2 moment), which throws off the entire run at times. GT2 was good, it was easy to manage, but a bit stiff at times. I honestly like GT2 jus for the expansive options you can have like takin a borin road car an slapin the race modifications on it (how I found my favorite french race car, the Peugeot 406 BTCC). Or some dinky AWD sedan with dirt tires goin against WRC rally cars. GT4 really hit me hard when I couldn jus slap race liverys on all my favorite cars (some of which didn even return like the 406 for example) but I could at least put dirt tires on stuff still, not like it mattered since I was drivin on ice lol.
9/10 for GT4's Rally?! Hard disagree with you on that one. Funny how you said in GT4 Rally races you can't brute force them due to penalties. True, but it's too bad the AI didn't get that memo. He will not hesitate to plow right through you to get ahead which results in YOU getting a penalty. There's nothing like going through the final hairpin at Grand Canyon on lap 5 and getting T-Boned by that assassin and getting a 5 second penalty for good measure. Immersion destroyed. Between that and the absolutely insane traction the AI got in those events and it was a wash. 4/10 IMO. GT3's Rally was king. Best physics and most fun. Though, sadly, far too few tracks.
I am surprised you didnt get into WHY the rally racing in Gran Turismo is the way it is? I thought for sure you would segue on the GT5 "Dirt Trials" missions, but you did not. You need to look up Japanese Dirt Trial on TH-cam. I think it will put WAY more perspective on how and why the GT Rally stages turned out like they did. As Dirt Trials are typically the only exposure someone from Japan might get, in real life, to specialized rally cars. And, in fact, the Japanese Dirt Trial Scene is where the first radical Suzuki's driven by Monster Tajima originated. And where later optimized into what we now consider the quintessential Pikes Peak vehicles. There have been plenty of Dirt Trial special vehicles that have come from Cusco, RallyArt, STi, Daihatsu Sport, and TRD. For those that dont bother to look it up. Dirt Trials are basically like an on dirt "stage" form of Gymkhana racing. Im not talking Ken Block Gymkhana, but Horse or motorcycle Gymkhana. Effectively they have a gravel pit arena that has been purpose built to carve roads for rally driving into, and then they have multiple different variants of layout they can modify with cones. The GT Rally Circuits are a very literal translation of those styles of Dirt Trial circuits. It is something very unique to Japan, and a big part of Japanese Motorsport Culture.
Sorry about the intro on this one guys. You can probably already guess, but this was done for copyright reasons. Unfortunately I didn’t have enough time to re-edit the video with different footage, so this was the best solution. The good news is that I have uploaded the intro without the filters over on my Patreon! - It’s not paywalled so anyone can watch it: www.patreon.com/posts/gran-turismos-93625936?
Whilst I’m here I may as well address a couple of things which I didn’t get to in the video. When it comes to the AI in rally events this is mostly the same as the normal races in each game. The general trend is that from GT1-4 the AI were decently fast but also pretty unaware and sometimes erratic. From GT5 onwards they became more aware but generally slower and less intense, with their actual speed often being manipulated to make them seem even slower than they are.
One issue that every GT game has when it comes to rally is the invisible walls at each track. And not just because it’s annoying to bump into them, but also because it means the level of risk is severely reduced - which is a large part of the appeal of actual rally. But what seems to have been forgotten in the mists of time is that PD were at one point planning for there to be harsher consequences in GT4. Here’s an old interview with Kaz where he mentions the possibility for your car falling into the Grand Canyon if you make a mistake on that track: www.eurogamer.net/i-gt4-ps2
Also, just a small thing, but the spectators which jump in and out of cover at GT4’s ‘special conditions’ circuits is a really cool feature. This is most obvious at Grand Canyon where they will literally run into the middle of the road to take pictures before running back. Why this is specific to just a handful of circuits in GT4, and has never been brought back for the rally circuits in any of the later games either, is kind of a mystery to me, but it’s yet another thing that makes GT4’s version of rally so unique and interesting.
I thought it's my phone having stroke at first 😂
Great video ma dude, keep it up!
GT6 had multiple point to point rally stages that were not even set on this planet!
Electric car from the 70's on the MOON -
Titanium Metal Treaded Tyres - Perfect for carving up that green cheese lunar surface!
- Great content as ever.
I bought an actual real copy of GT3 because of you! - You interweb influencer you!
Another thing, the reason why the gold medals for the rally license events in GT2 are so easy is that the Japanese version had rally physics with less grip, which forced you to take the corners slower. Later versions gave you extra grip on dirt but didn't adjust the license times to compensate (or at least didn't adjust them much)
@@ryklatortuga4146there is also a dirt special event on GT6 SEASONAL EVENTS.
It comes down to perspective and resource management. Although GT never was the perfect base for pure Rallying, the same cannot be said for Hillclimb Racing or Touge. And they never explored that properly...
Its him, The HillClimbMonster!
Yo I've been binge watching your clips recently!
Yo, the person with the most credit for rally and hill climb is here
No way you're here! Now this is straight up the words of the authority right here.
A pure hillclimb game would be a completely fresh and unexplored experience, instead of it being only tacked onto rally games. I want the KW Berg Cup grid, and a career mode where the player rises through the performance factors to the top. The final tier would be either the FIA championship or Pikes Peak. I need Normas and other prototypes, repurposed formula cars, extreme touring cars (not just the Pikes Peak ones, EU too), the slower touring car classes, repurposed rally and circuit racers like a Skoda Fabia WRC or a Z4 GT3, historic hillclimb cars, some dirt hillclimbs from the US and a selection of cars from those, british hillclimbs and their unique formula cars, the GLP as a small second game mode, etc...
SO MUCH POTENTIAL.
One thing you may not have known was that Dirt 4's procedurally generated stages were just sections of track predesigned by the developers and then just kind of stuck together over a rally course. You drove over a lot of the same types of road and the placement of objects was always the same.
true, that's why they aren't as lifeless as GT5's tracks
DiRT4's technique showed up decades before as all stages in V-Rally 2 use generic scenery
my mind imagines a train that throws tracks in front of itself and collects the tracks behind it.
Yeah, that's the definition of "procedurally generated". You create a procedure, and then you generate stuff based on the procedure. No one said it was "randomly generated".
6:23 The reason the GT2 dirt-track license tests are so easy is because the international versions of the game changed the rally physics to make the cars much more grippy, but didn't change the time requirements to accommodate this. In the original Japanese version the off-road handling is much more slippery so the gold times are a lot harder to beat.
Definitely gonna try that version someday!
Exactly , more like the "drift" driving style in the GT1 arcade mode
@@hashrulsubzerofor me i already tried it. I somehow only got 1 gold medal on that Japanese port 😅
@@gamezonevideo282and drift handling from 1993 Ridge Racer 1.
@@purwantiallan5089 Is that challenging eh? Well, now I'm really interested to try out myself. I'll let you know how it goes for me.
the moon is technically a rally in GT6 as it is a point to point race
I think GT4's narrow Special Condition circuits were designed with GT3's handling model in mind, simply because in GT4 Prologue (which retains GT3's handling model), Citta di Aria and Grand Canyon are playable, and I think GT3's handling model makes them a fair bit easier to navigate for novice players.
Gran Turismo 3 handling model is the easiest one to manage tho.
The AI seems to me are handling with GT3 physics, too fast.
A surprisingly positive overview of GT4's rally events in particular. Too often, discussion around GT4 Special Condition events boils down to specific talking points: "penalties suck", "cars have no grip on dirt/snow", "RSC grind is game-breaking" etc., so it's nice to see a more in-depth perspective. I agree that the new-to-GT4 tracks are a lot of fun; Grand Canyon is so satisfying to hotlap around once you learn the track.
Something worth mentioning though is the imbalance between rally cars in GT4, and how inferior rally cars are overall. In general, newer cars have much better chassis/grip stats than older ones, and the Celica and Delta Integrale really struggle to apply their power out of corners, compared to the newer Impreza and Evo rally cars. Even then, their lowly 13 / 18 downforce makes them grip less than an Impreza Spec C road car with a rear wing and 30 / 30 downforce. This isn't helped either by how awful the stock setups are on rally cars (8 bounds/rebounds, 1.0 rear camber and 6/6 stabilisers?), so understeer and lack of traction are big issues until you soften the suspension, lengthen the gears and set the center diff to 50 : 50. GT4's rally redeems itself IMO once you keep these things in mind and work around its (admittedly unfair) penalty system.
I'm fine of giving penalty if I hit a wall or shunt the opponent, but being shunt into a wall and received a penalty for it is just....😂
@@kazefw3834i somehow ever got 3 5 second penalties despite i got rammed from the back by an AI.😅
@@purwantiallan5089 yeah, the penalty system just favor the AI, how in the f do I get penalty if it was the AI shunt me into the barrier 😂
I really need to re-plugin my PS3 just to play GT6 again. GT6 was my first GT game and I have so many memories, the only other GT games I’ve played are GT Sport and GT7
One thing to mention about GT4's rally is the amazing atmosphere and details to it, the crazy spectactors with cameras, background noises, it's amazing
The history of GT's Rally is as weird as its handling.
That's why I hated those rally tests in GT PSP lol, I literally cannot get gold there
Gt4 rally = drifting😂
My rating for rally in GT PSP is a 7/10
Really close to the one in GT4, with all the circuits and a new one added, and as driver missions are optional license tests, any rally stage is accessible from the get-go, with the Pontiac Vibe GT being one possible starter car as a bonus, so you have a car to enter (plus the 100k cash at the very start lol). But the cars are limited, as most of them are restricted to road tires only. The usual form of 1v1 remains and with the time trial mode, you also have the form of rally from GT2 (but obviously, against yourself). My major problem is more of the game itself, that being the fact that your only incentive to engage with certain things is entirely a preference thing. Time trial, drift, rally and circuit are all just options for you to get money the way you want. So if you want to do only one thing, you can get away with the lack of variety
I'm only 3 minutes in, and I'm already amazed with the fact that not only you share my views regarding rally drivers but also that you are using music both from Sega Rally 1 and Sega Rally 2, which are the games that are most close to my heart in terms of rally racing or motorsport in general for that matter.
You're the best, dude!
Another thing that actually bugs me: In GT2, they have an ice car (Tigra Ice Car for exact) but no ice track for that, and in GT4, they finally have an ice racing track (two if you count Chamonix and account Snow conditions as one) but not the Tigra Ice Car.
God forbid how the ice car would drive on those ice tracks...
Setsuna yuki also love the Tigra Ice Rally Car in Gran Turismo 2. The car is so OP.
Yeah there's the drag car too but no drag... I think they abandoned the idea.
The importance of rally in the series was almost always parallel to the importance of WRC in the real world. Once the championship started to become irrelevant, Kazunori also stopped focusing on it as well.
Having 6 cars in each rally race would've been insanely fun in GT2 & GT3.
i would love to see the course maker in GT7. Something they could add in the future if they still don't want to put rally stages (or togue) are the courses that are featured in MF Ghost, which basically are togue made closed circuits.
To be fair, and despite Rally being quite neglected, some of the most fun I've had in GT7 was taking the 90s Celica rally car to the red chili event where you have to race the modern GT86 rally car at Fishermans Ranch. It was a 1v1 and reminded me a lot of GT3/GT4. Wish they had more of these races, they should be the standard.
They do have more, there's a 1v1 race at each of the three base dirt courses. The disappointing part is that they didn't include similar events at the new off-road courses.
These rally cars are a ton of fun on tracks like the Nurburgring
instead of mimicking rally events, they were more to mimicking dirt trial events which are popular in japan ..even ebisu circuit was born as dirt trial circuit bfr drifting came over
I know the channel revolves around GT in general but I'd love to see more coverage on rally and hillclimb games.
Keep up the good work!
GT3 Rally was so fun! Bought PS2 based on playing GT3 demo in a shop. Impreza, Smokey Mountain, Sunset = Sold!
I've always seen DiRT 4 as being the "Gran Turismo of Rally games" because it has everything that GT has: buy and selling used cars, upgrading vehicles, money management and strategy, multiple disciplines and vehicle types, so many campaign events, time trials, even has a team management and partnerships system. I think its the best DiRT Single-Player experience.
It's so boring
@@co.1157I agree I couldn’t get into it on my steam deck….id prefer 3 but I love forza horizon 4.
@co.1157
As someone who’s put so many hours in DiRT4 (since its launch, on PS4), I have to agree with the sentiment. After you're done with the main Career Mode, there’s basically nothing you can do; after that.
Sure, there’s Joyride Mode; but, it just feels like a soulless iteration of Gymkhana from DiRT3/Showdown, regardless of which handling model you’re personally using. Also, I don’t know if people are still playing DiRT4's Multiplayer (that isn’t just Rallycross, nor Competitive scene); at least, in-console, anymore.
Also, the game’s branding and atmosphere/aesthetic just feels cold and cynical. Sure, a video game's aesthetic is subjective. But, it feels like Codemasters didn’t know if they wanted DiRT4 to be a try-hard oriented simulator, like the DiRT Rally games. But, also didn’t want to alienate casual players; who (probably) also played the previous arcade-oriented DiRT installments. Hence, why they’d even brought back Land Rush racing; despite, being the most despised class/segment, in the game.
Like, regardless of its features, DiRT4 would’ve been looked more favorably; if, Codemasters took their time to figure out what they wanted the game to be, tone and personality-wise. And, probably implemented other forms/classes of off-road racing, like in previous DiRT titles. If, they were willing to pay for the licensing fees for certain manufacturers and sanctioning bodies of certain (off-road) racing championships. Also, could’ve had more environments/countries used for rally stages.
@@taegonlewis1398 very good take. Did you play the first DiRT game? That had a lot of replay-ability
I wanted to like that game so bad. But dang. The weird handling and instability on PC were untenable, especially coming from the buttery and polished experience of DiRT 3 & DiRT Rally on the same platform.
Still love all the 90s rally cars on my GT2 save, every 90s impreza and lancer decal, along with the celicas, megane, lancias, peugeots, citroens, escort, corolla etc etc
Now that I watched your video, I now understand why Gran Turismo doesn’t take rallying too seriously. It had a very awkward history. I still have hope for Gran Turismo, and I love rallying no matter what. I just race, and wait for what Polyphony is cooking up next.
Quick fun fact about the advanced difficulty toscana rally in gt5, prior to the update 2.0 (or spec 2.0) there was no Performance Points (PP) being enforced on the event, only the horsepower limit, so what you could use the Ferrari F1 car detuned to the exact 350hp cap in order to use it
You needed to detune you car only to load a race. After that you could go to te tunning menu right before the race itself and tune your car back to 100% power, making the race even more incredible easy.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but personally I never liked rally in GT. I understand *why* it's been included historically, after all how can you have a game dedicated to car culture and automobile industry without featuring the iconic machines which brought the likes of Colin mcrae, Sebastian loeb and tommi makinen to world champion status, but considering the technical limitations and driving physics I'd rather play a dedicated WRC game like the one that ran alongside Gran Turismo back in the day by Evolution Studios or currently by Codemasters/Milestone, same with Formula class vehicles. I mean you couldn't even have more than a couple opponents until GT5
I found WRC thanks to tv. I fell in love with WRC thanks to GT. Amongst my friends I was the GOAT on dirt with the 206 WRC and Tahiti Maze (the track we used). I miss those days.
With love: a 40 year old man who still plays GT.
Hopefully Polyphony and PlayStation Studios want to create another Spin-off called Gran Turismo Presents GT Rally
One of my mates worked on GT5, I can remember losing my s*** with him over the citroen C4 on snow with tarmac tyres, and some of the points you bring up here, but for what ever reason, this is what the higher-ups wanted. mind blowing really.
I'm not 100% sure about this. But seems to me the AI in GT4 dirt and snow events are broken, really faster than in tarmac. To me is the hardest events in the game except mission 34.
What made rally in GT special for me, similar to Circuit racing in GT, was that at least some of the events took place with normal cars. And by that I don't mean road legal sportscars like Evos, Imprezas, or M3s, but also that red hatchback your neighbour used to drive in the 90s. That might even be part of the reason why Gran Turismo Sport isn't a "number title". I think the best would be to go back to the Special Events of GT4, and make a dedicated section in the career about narrow streets, loose surfaces, and maybe even mixed surfaces. And for the love of god either give up the exclusive rights for Pikes Peak or give us some actual Pikes Peak content! Even Electronic Arts had the decency to throw in a 911 in like every 4th Need for Speed game
Even though I have rally games like dirt and wrc…even Sebastian Loeb rally…I always appreciated the gran turismo take on rally…and since I loved gt 4 so much growing up, I still have GT psp installed on my vita.
I love that you used 2000s WRC broadcast soundtracks here. They are so good!
While I respect everyone 's right to have an opinion, I think one thing that's missing in this analysis for me is the fact that GT allowed you to take just about anything on a dirt track. The whole appeal of GT was not just Motorsport from the perspective of race cars on real tracks, but the ability to take a car that you may own in real life and put it in a racing environment. Understandably if you are a rally fan, that may not scratch any itch, but as a rally fan myself I thought it was a pretty wonderful possibility, so the abundance or lack of rally vehicles was never too much of an issue for me.
We need you to cover the Dirt series (including Dirt Rally and the newest EA WRC) amazing video as always ❤
I think the biggest issue I have with GT4's prize cars in the Special Conditions Hall is
Tsukuba Wet (Hard)
You race
Literal Le Mans Prototypes with zero handicap, on a reduced grip surface, on a tight track where handling and acceleration are crucial
And you get a bog standard (even if contextually unique) Ford GT
I know it can be beaten with a heavily upgraded Lancer or Impreza but it doesn't really line up
This made me just realize that I never once played Rally in GT6 even though I've played hours and hours of it
The rally in gt sport got me interested in focused rally games when I really wasn't before so I think if people get a taste of it in a game like GT7 or whatever it's still a good thing.
Gotta appreciate the use of the WRC AXN theme used in this.
For me Toca Race Driver 3 nailed the multiple racing disciplines in a single game. GT should have taken a leaf out of Codemaster's book.
I think the reason they resorted to ghost cars in GT2 was because they couldn't make the AI competitive. Even in GT3's Arcade Mode (where rally was necessary to progress), I found the Easy AI and the Normal AI too forgiving for being allegedly a mirror match.
The rally physics in GT2 and GT3 were surprisingly, if not suspiciously, similar to Sega Rally's gameplay, and I loved it that way. When GT4 dropped I was so disappointed to see how much slower and unfun they made the physics on gravel/dirt. But the tarmac tracks are indeed fantastic.
Yes, yet again another "GT4 was a mistake" post from me. Great video !
The GT4 handling model on rally tracks are like the one from Ridge Racer Revolution.
gt4 rally is my favorite, it's neither too much arcady or realistic. gt5 rally feels tedious
I will always complain immensely about how wide rally tracks are in all of them. The fact you have an entire car park worth of room to slide is nothing, nothing like what you see rally drivers doing. No cliffs, no trees, no threading the needle. Citta di Aria was such a treasure in that sense, but then even Lake Louise feels like yet another car park worth of sliding room.
This has always been my biggest gripe and no one ever mentions it. The tracks are as wide as a six lane highway.
I feel that Rally much like football is funner to watch than play as a video game.
I’d like to make a special mention to one car that Gran Turismo 4 added: The Mitsubishi Starion 4WD.
The Starion 4WD was never properly rallied in the WRC. It was expected to show up for the 1986 RAC rally, but the announcement that Group B would be canceled after ‘86 made any effort in the program rather unnecessary. As the Starion, anyways.
GT4 is likely the reason anyone knows about the car and its program, and I find that very fascinating. It’s not anything super interesting, such as the 288 Evo concept or any Group S prototypes, but the Starion is still interesting as an inclusion nonetheless.
I was not aware that GT holds the license for Pike’s Peak. No wonder we haven’t seen it in a rally game since DiRT Rally. That’s so disappointing.
i think the ideal situation is if Gran Turismo can combine the concept of rally racing with its strongest point which is its car roster, and create a sort of 'amateur rally' scene ... where instead of purpose built rally cars, you have road cars with modifications which can be conceivably be done by the average enthusiast such as tyre and suspension upgrades, and maybe a roll cage to simulate the safety regulations
this would allow for some interesting sights, such as bringing your homemade shoestring weekend beater car to glamorous rally tracks all over the world
Very cool video thanks, it was nice to go through GT Rally history. In the end, I'd say that rallying in GT is closer to rallycross or simply off road track racing.
Personally, I've always felt that rally never found its place in the games. Cars and tracks were there because GT is an overall racing game that features every category in the world, but rally being so specific, it never really had a proper representation of it (as I said, it was more rallycross and offroad track racing than proper rally). On one side rally cars were always highly represented with enough cars to make a rally game but we were missing all other aspects of rallying.
Maybe, if GT wants to keep only closed circuit, I wonder why they never, for rallying, implemented a mode that looks like Sega Rally : closed circuits but with checkpoints and time running, that would feel a bit more like rallying, and despite having other cars with you, you're actually runinng against time.
Also, among all the failures in terms of rallying for GT Sport and 7, the biggest one must be the cars. Honestly, I don't care if I only have 3 or 4 dirt/snow tracks to drive, what I really like are the cars, and the total absence of real rally cars (the only two being the 205 Turbo 16 and the recently added Celica Group A). These fictive Group B cars are indeed fast and pleasant to drive, but they just feel boring and without personality compare to real rally cars (and especially WRC). Good thing is you can recreate some of them thanks to car tuning system that came back in GT7.
Shoutout to everyone that used the Lexus LS LM car for the rally stages in GT3
To describe the off road races on closed off circuits, I use the term "Rallysprint", as the tracks are too long for Rallycross.
Funnily enough, the way the course maker was employed by GT5 was already in a previous rallying game: International Rally Championship for the PC released in 1997. The game allowed you to randomly generate courses, both point-to-point and circuit style, in a bunch of different biomes, and you had similar options with a custom number of sections adding varied complexity. You could also add up to 30 of these courses (in addition to pre-made ones) to custom championships, deciding or randomising the conditions per race. I'm always for these sorts of options, as I much prefer setting up custom races in driving games over pre-made and often a limited number of championships. So the concept definitely wasn't novel by the time GT5 rolled around 10+ years later, especially because the underlying concept was p much the same.
you can get prize cars in rally events but on gt2 plus, a modded version
My theory as to why we haven't seen Pikes Peak yet, is due to Kaz's realisim hunt.
That road changes quite a bit each year, so in his eyes he would have to start over again and make it more realistic.
But I don't know. I'm just some commentor on the internet.
Great vid, keep 'em coming.
If anything it has to be system limitations. Unlike a circuit, it’s 12.2 miles point to point. That’s a lot of ground to cover and an enormous amount of scenery to get up to GT7’s standards that can also be run on PS4 & PS5. If it ever comes it will probably be limited to 1 or 2 cars on track at a time and will be useless for daily races and GTWS, which PD definitely care too much about regarding track choice
@@RowdyGT
I was going to mention Dirt Rally 2.0, but the graphics are not Polyphony rated, as you said.
@@RowdyGT but the Nürburgring 24hr layout is nearly 16miles in length and Polyphony seems to have no trouble getting that to meet their standards 🤔
Granted it still is a circuit with fairly homogenous scenery but they still need to model a whole load of its local surroundings.
If anything the lack of vegetation in the later Stages of Pikes peak make modelling it easier, no?
@@mrspandel5737 yes, towards the top it wouldn’t require as much work in terms of foliage but it’s exchanged with far more visibility around the landscape, and boulders. It will probably be loaded with invisible barriers too unless they just add reset points just outside the tarmac
I loved the rally stages in gt4, this is gonna be a great video!
I remember being amazed at the crowds jumping in front of your car, and when you hit a chicane just right to power through it it’s just *chef’s kiss
Tip: If you want extremely difficult and fun rally, play BeamNG (yes i know it offers a lot more outside the rally nieche, but still), it is amazing, and with some mods (like the "Douglas Rally" mod), it gets even better.
12:32 "Rain, pavement and concrete become a black terror." Looking back, I'm not sure if PD's translation blunders are funny or morbid.
When talking about rally in Gran Turismo, I feels like their idea back at GT4, seems to be the most realistic we could have, with the creativity of GT5 included. Current GT feels like a dirt race than a rally, I admit it (even Lake Louisiana resemble dirt race, a race in dirt/snow, than a rally with technical sector and pace notes)
But here's the thing, GT seems to always be trying to accommodate everything (it's their only game, after all), with Gymkhana inspired event on GT Sport (I just knew that), and how they're trying to keep rally/dirt race in game, but that's the problem. They keep it for the sake of keeping it, so the player base will be satisfied, which we didn't, apparently. Sometimes I do questioning their approach to realism, where they're always boasting about how realistic GT7 is, but then there's stretched out start, with me in last, rally that feels like dirt race than rally, and...
I dunno, they lost their touch, their authenticity, makes me wonder what do they do with the Pikes Peak license anyway. If they want to include rally in GT Sport, might aswell include it in a competition, then do it. The chaos seems like fun, than just zooming in circuit, but that's that, they just there, leaving us with few gravel track, without update. Which GT7 we started to get more....
In the end, I feels like they should reset their game once more, to the point every priority is clear. If GT supposed to be road only racing game, go for it, Forza Motorsport was known for being road racing game. Wanna include rally? Instead of squeezing it into GT, make a spin-off, kinda like Forza Horizon (although FH was meant against NFS, but their off-road physics is perfect to accommodate rally segment in Forza franchise), call it Rally Turismo or something, with different team that have their priority straight to rally. Worst thing possible, if Polyphony only care about detail on cars, they might aswell stop making Gran Turismo and make a game where we just be able to see details of cars and driving it for few laps, much like Forzavista if it's it own game. Hell, even I adore Forzavista's detail on car model more than just looking at how perfect my car looks on GT7
Ahem, again, that's that. I think GT should stop trying to be everything they could, and acquired the hyper realism, it's what makes the game lose focus, might aswell flop as hard as FM8, except only the old fan that seems to be able to see it
I think GT rally mode was always a form of define a different game driving style and not Rally in itself as we know it. I mean , in GT 1 you could select between Grip and Drift driving styles. If they call it Drift mode anyone would expect the D1 licensed track and cars. I mean , GT was never and it will never be 100% discipline real fidelity. Rally , Drifting , JGTC , BTCC , DTM , Nascar, etc , you can recreate some "aura" with some cars and some tracks , but to go 100% on some speciffic discipline its too much even for a game like GT. I think their vision of Rally its pretty nice and simple. Like a Sega Rally 2 but with Amazing graphics. Sega Rally isnt Rally or it is? I mean , i grew up with GT1 and 2 and i think think GT6 and GT Sport now are not too far from their original formula. I liked them all anyway and still waiting to have money to buy GT7 some day. Nice video , i like your channel and your devotion to this franchise , nice editions , a pleasure to watch and listen 😊
My favorite way to break GT4 is to do easy Costa Amalfi, and then cheese with RSC(or other decent rally car) the Hard Yosemite 1 for Suzuki Escudo.
Man, the chase to get those esports dollars has really harmed video games. It's so hard to find big budget experiences these days. Competitive games are fun, but not when that's the only option.
People joke about how they can't grasp how Nintendo keeps going. It's because they make games to be played by yourself or _with_ friends, not against them.
Take Tekken. The games were really good up until online multiplayer came about. But now it's all about frame data and hitboxes. That isn't fun for most people. At least Tekken Tag Tournament tries to be lighthearted and content rich.
But with no focus on content that isn't for PvP, games are just boring. Where is the _game_ part?
You guys still have it much better than us Forza Motorsport players!
I am really thinking about getting a PS5 for GT7!
I was always disappointed in the "Rally" content in Gran Turismo...still nice reminders that rally exists though.
I feel this way for all aspects of Gran Turismo from GT4 onwards, which does link to the move to PS3. I feel like Polyphony went for "realism", and "content" over "feel", or even outright enjoyment. The more "professional" the image has become, the less fun these games are to play. I really want to enjoy, and I'm always suckered into buying the next installments, but they're just.. boring? Bland as you say. Sure, the cars might handle very realistically, but driving around in a long line of 16 cars in a deserted nurburgring gp circuit is not nearly as fun as 6 cars around apricot hill or red rock valley, or even El capitan.
This is probably the perfect time to say this but the move to the PS2 was when Polyphony started to show their bad game design and their spectacle > authenticity style of game.
3 started the timed race bs (4 is an exception)
4 started the stiff chase camera bs (Sport is an exception)
3 might be the 3rd best GT game and 4 might be the best GT game but we have to understand that those 2 started some bs that we see in Modern GT.
Perhaps Polypony could make a Rally dedicated game.
I'm actually wondering on whether the Prize Cars for GT4's rally events were bugged in a way that the rewards were reversed. Maybe you weren't meant to get something like the RCS Rally Raid Car on Easy, but on Hard instead. But seeing as how GT4 has a reputation for it's prize cars being unbalanced, nobody ever noticed this.
I hope one day gran Turismo add pikes peak. They even have a whole class for it!
Probably just a coincidence, but notice how GT's peak of interest is before Loeb's domination, and during it nobody in GT cared anymore about WRC.
My feeling towards rally in Gran Turismo is quite unique. I see a potential not exploited and it simply breaks my heart. PD could definitely compete with EA's WRC if they really want to. The same thing apply for motorcycle, but that take is even more debatable. Sony should step in and expand the Gran Turismo universe with other studios working with/for PD.
Fun fact: in the mod GT2 plus mod, you can now earn prize cars in rally events.
Rally was more like mini rallycross events and it didn't feel like they were properly implemented lol
I think the intent of GT3's rally structure is that you _wouldn't_ complete an entire event at once but would complete the easy races of them _all_ first followed by their intermediate and difficult races.
I would like to say Gran Turismo always had rally in mind but the implementation was always difficult because they knew where the core player base will spend most of their time, being on tarmac.
I get the feeling that Dirt racing was another victim of the rushed nature for the holiday season with GT2 (Much like the completely cut Drag Racing section).
I did noticed the lack of rally in GT5 back then when I first played it, as for GT6 boy it really went down hill, and now here we are fully restart and slowly putting everything back together as we speak, is just that is going to keep expanding more and more maybe in GT8 will, no I don't have high hopes of it but as long they add more events it should be fine.
Now I would like to see your rating of the lisence and maybe the challange event some sort since you are going to go right ahead looking back in the past to the current day. I know I have to wait another month for it and the another update is coming close too, maybe in Christmas, who knows all I want is to expand bigger as much as possible.
I never liked Rally in GT games but i just played up to GT4.
In gt5 i had a rally generate with a 30 second cliff fall. Think i have the replay still on my ps3. Was like what
I never liked the rally controls outside of 3. There it was smooth and felt almost like a dance to string the best movements together. Afterwards it’s just a mess of unpredictable understeer and your grip seems to be completely random on every corner. In 7 it’s just terrible, the car shakes so much it’s hard to focus and the car has a tendency to fly into the air on hitting bumps, pulling a wheelie and blinding you. Strange how these things work.
Can you please ask poliphony to bring back those city circuit , I will love to battle a friend there 😭❤️
Not sure how hard it would be to make a decent procedural generator for rally stages, though it would be awesome to have something like that. Maybe it would be better to put together one or two track areas with a mix of tarmac and dirt sections that can be combined for different layouts. Those could be used for licence tests, especially early game events, and eventually special events.
That's where you'd see rallycross layouts with a few cars, longer track versions for 1v1 races, and either single lap super long layouts or a point to point track as a rally stage. Given that PD likely wouldn't go for the latter as it doesn't conform to their idea of realism and all that, but there's a lot of options.
What I find the most baffling is how they in many cases already have the content made (tracks and cars that is) and just don't bother combining both to create more events.
Great memories, but you've forgot, from GT6, the Lunar event, a rally on the moon
I always enjoyed the rally mode in early gt games. Nice tracks & handling. Pity they don’t add more thought to it now.
Sigh, Rally in GT seems like just such an afterthought. No heart or soul.
I loved the "Special Conditions" races in GT4, enjoying equally as the other mods in the game (the only time that happened to me in GT series).
Always wanted a proper rally game (or something like the Codemasters' DIRT series, with more disciplines such Rallycross, Hillclimbs and Raids) from Polyphony because the resources of the company to bring a massive roster of cars. But sadly, we don't know if Polyphony have the same interest.
I love watching these videos because I can listen to them in the background while making scale model cars!
Eh, rally isn't even a thing in America, and the WRC isn't broadcast on TV here, even though Ford competes in the WRC, and I can buy a WRC game that's published by EA, also the "dirt event" was called "rally events" in the US version of the game.
I suddenly want to do a public lobby online for group B cars on Nordschleife. I dont know why
gt sport and gt7 has both been just huge grinding. not much else
This, along with the Endurance video for me, pretty much sums up how I feel about the Gran Turismo series
GT1: A solid start
GT2: Good progress, quantity over quality
GT3: Quality over quantity. Insane quality even
GT4: THE GOAT
GT5: Good, but not as good as it should be
GT6: yaaay 1000 cars yippeee but disappointing game
GT7: All the potential in the world... but so far it is all wasted potential
Sidebar: I get so pissed off when a new GT7 update is announced and they add more vision GT cars. I can't be the only person that gives ZERO shits about them. I want more random cars - gimme a '13 Dodge Avenger SXT, or a '21 TRD Avalon, or an '07 Mitsubishi Galant Ralliart. These cars, namely the Avenger or Galant, are first/early cars for a LOT OF PEOPLE - and the SXT/Ralliart models are the more fun, fast ones. I think they would be a hit if they got added, as lots of people can relate to them. They'd be amazing to see in the used car market. But nah we gotta have f*ckn hotwheels in the game. Disappointing.
*My ranking of Rally in GTs:*
GT2: 7/10 great gameplay but a bit boring
GT3: 9/10 awesome gameplay and cool tracks
GT4: 5,5/10 weird physics but coolest tracks
GT5: 3/10 awful physics
GT6: 3/10 same as GT5
GT Sport: i have no opinion
GT7: 5/10 not great but still better than the previous PS3 games
rally wise, no game has beaten Colin Mcrae V rally 2.0. What a game!... the best to date
The handling in GRAN TURISMO 2 on Worldwide versions is surprisingly very grippy unlike Japanese versions. So thats why the gold medal times are very easy to get.
From time trials, Smokey Mountain South being Swiss Alps, varied cars, less tracks, GT2-4 great, GT5-7 it's hmm. New tracks Sport/7, big tracks eh events. GT/Forza few/no hill climbs/A-B tracks.
Open wheel next?
You've already done endurance and now rally.
They need to release this or these games on PC because I, lol, want to play them so bad. To the point of having considered actually buying a console, but logic is that I already have a PC, still.
Gran Turismo seem such good games.
Oh well... At least they brought us Metal Gear Solid to PC :smiling_face:
Really cool vidéo
great video as always :) how do you deal with copyright claims on your videos?
would love a vid on GT's 2 year fling with karting
One thing I agree. Rally drivers are the best drivers in motorsport.
I honestly love GT2 an GT4, I love the rally in both games, my only gripe with GT4's rally, is the god awful ground physics. I can literally drive sideways in the corners... it jus feels like your drivin on ice with random frozen dirt patches that suddenly yank your car like it's got snap oversteer (MR-2 moment), which throws off the entire run at times. GT2 was good, it was easy to manage, but a bit stiff at times. I honestly like GT2 jus for the expansive options you can have like takin a borin road car an slapin the race modifications on it (how I found my favorite french race car, the Peugeot 406 BTCC). Or some dinky AWD sedan with dirt tires goin against WRC rally cars. GT4 really hit me hard when I couldn jus slap race liverys on all my favorite cars (some of which didn even return like the 406 for example) but I could at least put dirt tires on stuff still, not like it mattered since I was drivin on ice lol.
9/10 for GT4's Rally?! Hard disagree with you on that one. Funny how you said in GT4 Rally races you can't brute force them due to penalties. True, but it's too bad the AI didn't get that memo. He will not hesitate to plow right through you to get ahead which results in YOU getting a penalty. There's nothing like going through the final hairpin at Grand Canyon on lap 5 and getting T-Boned by that assassin and getting a 5 second penalty for good measure. Immersion destroyed. Between that and the absolutely insane traction the AI got in those events and it was a wash. 4/10 IMO. GT3's Rally was king. Best physics and most fun. Though, sadly, far too few tracks.
I am surprised you didnt get into WHY the rally racing in Gran Turismo is the way it is? I thought for sure you would segue on the GT5 "Dirt Trials" missions, but you did not.
You need to look up Japanese Dirt Trial on TH-cam. I think it will put WAY more perspective on how and why the GT Rally stages turned out like they did. As Dirt Trials are typically the only exposure someone from Japan might get, in real life, to specialized rally cars. And, in fact, the Japanese Dirt Trial Scene is where the first radical Suzuki's driven by Monster Tajima originated. And where later optimized into what we now consider the quintessential Pikes Peak vehicles. There have been plenty of Dirt Trial special vehicles that have come from Cusco, RallyArt, STi, Daihatsu Sport, and TRD.
For those that dont bother to look it up. Dirt Trials are basically like an on dirt "stage" form of Gymkhana racing. Im not talking Ken Block Gymkhana, but Horse or motorcycle Gymkhana. Effectively they have a gravel pit arena that has been purpose built to carve roads for rally driving into, and then they have multiple different variants of layout they can modify with cones. The GT Rally Circuits are a very literal translation of those styles of Dirt Trial circuits. It is something very unique to Japan, and a big part of Japanese Motorsport Culture.