THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COVERING US!!! It's pretty spot on besides the little fill bits but those are hard to hear anyway, here's the actual tab if you wanted to compare drive.google.com/file/d/17oIm7D1D2lLz6CPgKvW7egGZZbvm3EFH/view?usp=drivesdk
Sweet thanks! Very cool to see the behind the scenes! And yeah I could tell those fill things weren't quite right but couldn't quite make them out. Thanks for the awesome music!
Honestly I immediately went "oh, that's that 5/8 pattern" and started drumming along when it came in and then after a couple measures went "oh wait, maybe I'm wrong and it's just a simple 3-2 polyrhythm" and started doing that instead, so that seems like pretty strong evidence that you're onto something here. I think the cymbal pattern might have something to do with it but it's so washy that I'm having a hard time telling exactly what it's supposed to be as well, it almost sounds like they're actively trying to smooth out the 5/8 into a 6/8 which would make a loooot of sense in the context of the video but also might just be focusing on the thing I was just told is happening. Either way, I was literally playing around with this pattern on the drums yesterday (and have both this and the polyrhythm ingrained in muscle memory about as natural as a 4/4 backbeat) and still got bamboozled so the illusion definitely seems to be there in some form. Anyway, thanks for another cool find. Definitely going to check out the full album later.
Fantastic video! I'm not a big music theory guy but this was fascinating. Been a big fan of Pupil Slicer since MIrrors came out, I got to see them live last month which was awesome
I dont know whether what Im gonna say is a misinterpretation of what you explained but i would almost describe the feeling, playing the riff at full speed correctly, as playing very much in front of Beat 1. So like you would rush Beat 1. I think that would be easier to understand than trying to explain to someone why he thinks 6/8 but why its 5/8. Which is kind of going back to the whole theory-vs-feeling-thing.
Very interesting, as always. In the end when trying to hear either 6/8th or 5/8th, i somehow get the feeling the 5/8th seems to speed up, or more like i get the feel of it being ahead of me, if that makes sense. The short part before the next sequence starts falls in place quite nice and more expected. When hearing the 6/8th the riff itself feels more right/expected and the parts after it feel out of place. really wierd... Thanks for the braintwister 🙃 \m/
Dude, you make some of the best videos. I can't wait to see where your channel is in a year or two when you have 5 times as many subs! Keep up the great break downs!
Thank you for the book recommendation! I'm a prog-minded drummer entering a PhD program in neuroscience and angling to eventually study musical rhythm cognition. The way you discuss music theory with an eye toward psychological phenomena is exciting and validating. Also Pupil Slicer is extremely sick, good call
FWIW from this particular chug 'n' screech mathcore fan, I had to listen to the riff a few times to start to feel the 2/3 vibe you're talking about and it still felt way more unstable to me than the 3+3+2+2 interpretation. The first screech does dominate but I overwhelmingly hear it as being on an off beat. I'm personally far more tempted to treat the riff as a dembow than a hemiola.
Funny how my brain defaulted to 5/8 probably because I was in a strict diet of mathcore during teenagehood (my musician years). Lots of Botch made me catch 5/8s on the fly like this.
I hear it more like 10/16 if I need to be pedantic. And I headbanged in different pulse too. Maybe it's because I'm all too used to this kind of metre but all the alternatives you provided were much more baffling to me. I kinda get the 6/8 though and sometimes I use this effect to get this 'drunk' unquantized feel for a riff. Anyway I aint even heard of this band what happened...
Hello Metal Music Theory, I'd love to hear you do an analysis of "This Mortal Coil" by Carcass. There's some crazy time signatures in the main riff but still a great hook.
what are some of the books that you have on your shelf behind you? a couple are readable (i can kinda see the metal music manual, choosing death, and black metal) but i cant make out the others
Haha full list since people ask every video (though it changes a bit week to week and doesn't really have any significance, other than that they're all good books, mostly about music): James Baldwin - The Devil Finds Work Robert Fink et al. - The Relentless Pursuit of Tone Mariusz Kozak - Enacting Musical Time Christopher Doll - Hearing Harmony Mark Mynett - Metal Music Manual Lerdahl and Jackendoff - Generative Theory of Tonal Music Alex Ross - The Rest is Noise Maury Yeston - The Stratification of Musical Rhythm Michelle Phillipov - Death Metal and Music Criticism Robert Walser - Running With the Devil Ramón Oscuro Marton - And Justice For Art Keith Kahn-Harris - Extreme Metal Dayal Patterson - Black Metal Albert Mudrian - Choosing Death Mudrian et al. - Precious Metal Dora Hanninen - A Theory of Music Analysis Brad Osborn - Everything In Its Right Place Schwarz et al. - Keeping Score David Lewin - Generalized Musical Intervals and Transformations William Caplin - Classical Form Stravinsky - Rite of Spring Those are the horizontally stacked ones, the rest is mostly fiction going off to the right. I will eventually do a video about theory books!
Thanks for this, one of my favorite albums of 2021. Saw them live in August and it was an experience🤯
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COVERING US!!! It's pretty spot on besides the little fill bits but those are hard to hear anyway, here's the actual tab if you wanted to compare drive.google.com/file/d/17oIm7D1D2lLz6CPgKvW7egGZZbvm3EFH/view?usp=drivesdk
Yo this album absolutely rips, been a huge fan since the day it came out.
Sweet thanks! Very cool to see the behind the scenes! And yeah I could tell those fill things weren't quite right but couldn't quite make them out. Thanks for the awesome music!
Honestly I immediately went "oh, that's that 5/8 pattern" and started drumming along when it came in and then after a couple measures went "oh wait, maybe I'm wrong and it's just a simple 3-2 polyrhythm" and started doing that instead, so that seems like pretty strong evidence that you're onto something here. I think the cymbal pattern might have something to do with it but it's so washy that I'm having a hard time telling exactly what it's supposed to be as well, it almost sounds like they're actively trying to smooth out the 5/8 into a 6/8 which would make a loooot of sense in the context of the video but also might just be focusing on the thing I was just told is happening. Either way, I was literally playing around with this pattern on the drums yesterday (and have both this and the polyrhythm ingrained in muscle memory about as natural as a 4/4 backbeat) and still got bamboozled so the illusion definitely seems to be there in some form.
Anyway, thanks for another cool find. Definitely going to check out the full album later.
Fantastic video! I'm not a big music theory guy but this was fascinating. Been a big fan of Pupil Slicer since MIrrors came out, I got to see them live last month which was awesome
I kind of love how deliberate your lighting solution for the background is
YOOOO PUPIL SLICER, VERY NICE! Keep it up man!
Excellent video. Sick shirt and sick editing. 🤘
My brain is melting from this
I dont know whether what Im gonna say is a misinterpretation of what you explained but i would almost describe the feeling, playing the riff at full speed correctly, as playing very much in front of Beat 1. So like you would rush Beat 1. I think that would be easier to understand than trying to explain to someone why he thinks 6/8 but why its 5/8. Which is kind of going back to the whole theory-vs-feeling-thing.
Thanks for covering this song, these guys absolutely fucking rule! Awesome video man
Very interesting, as always. In the end when trying to hear either 6/8th or 5/8th, i somehow get the feeling the 5/8th seems to speed up, or more like i get the feel of it being ahead of me, if that makes sense. The short part before the next sequence starts falls in place quite nice and more expected. When hearing the 6/8th the riff itself feels more right/expected and the parts after it feel out of place. really wierd... Thanks for the braintwister 🙃 \m/
Hey!!! Adam Neely featured something akin to this in his new essay!
Great video and a new band to check out to boot.
The Doc does it again.
Dude, you make some of the best videos. I can't wait to see where your channel is in a year or two when you have 5 times as many subs! Keep up the great break downs!
don't even listen to metal anymore but this channel is so good. keep it up, amazing stuff
First we got Mr. Metal Music Theory and now Handsome Young Man? The cinematic universe is ever so growing.
Loved this!
Thank you for the book recommendation! I'm a prog-minded drummer entering a PhD program in neuroscience and angling to eventually study musical rhythm cognition. The way you discuss music theory with an eye toward psychological phenomena is exciting and validating. Also Pupil Slicer is extremely sick, good call
FWIW from this particular chug 'n' screech mathcore fan, I had to listen to the riff a few times to start to feel the 2/3 vibe you're talking about and it still felt way more unstable to me than the 3+3+2+2 interpretation. The first screech does dominate but I overwhelmingly hear it as being on an off beat. I'm personally far more tempted to treat the riff as a dembow than a hemiola.
Yoooooo big up the slicer
i did the artwork for this record and their previous ones its so nuts to just have it land in my subscriptions now
and ithaca as well! you are definitely keeping up with the new shit
Congrats, it's great artwork!
Funny how my brain defaulted to 5/8 probably because I was in a strict diet of mathcore during teenagehood (my musician years). Lots of Botch made me catch 5/8s on the fly like this.
I hear it more like 10/16 if I need to be pedantic. And I headbanged in different pulse too. Maybe it's because I'm all too used to this kind of metre but all the alternatives you provided were much more baffling to me. I kinda get the 6/8 though and sometimes I use this effect to get this 'drunk' unquantized feel for a riff. Anyway I aint even heard of this band what happened...
I fucking love your content.
You kind of look like Michael Ironside
Lol that's a new one
As a teacher, I can't make any promises.
Hello Metal Music Theory,
I'd love to hear you do an analysis of "This Mortal Coil" by Carcass. There's some crazy time signatures in the main riff but still a great hook.
...was that a Kroll Show reference with dolphinitely?
u know it
@@metalmusictheory5401 turtley
Illuuuuusionn
Hey Calder I'm thinking of doing a PhD related to your research, any chance you could give me advice? Thanks!
Sure shoot me an email! cmh2243@columbia.edu
@@metalmusictheory5401 Thank you so much!
The pulse for me is on the crash. Lol at the Radiohead.
Dolphinately? Kroll show fan by chance?
Ah, yes.
What I call the Hemiola with Hemroids
made me chuckle
Useless my ass.. this is the stuff us metals nerds need in life
Also wasn't this in a botch song?
That's not a joke or a dig at the band
yeah it must have been subconscious because I only realized we basically did the same thing 1:1 after the song was already written
what are some of the books that you have on your shelf behind you? a couple are readable (i can kinda see the metal music manual, choosing death, and black metal) but i cant make out the others
Haha full list since people ask every video (though it changes a bit week to week and doesn't really have any significance, other than that they're all good books, mostly about music):
James Baldwin - The Devil Finds Work
Robert Fink et al. - The Relentless Pursuit of Tone
Mariusz Kozak - Enacting Musical Time
Christopher Doll - Hearing Harmony
Mark Mynett - Metal Music Manual
Lerdahl and Jackendoff - Generative Theory of Tonal Music
Alex Ross - The Rest is Noise
Maury Yeston - The Stratification of Musical Rhythm
Michelle Phillipov - Death Metal and Music Criticism
Robert Walser - Running With the Devil
Ramón Oscuro Marton - And Justice For Art
Keith Kahn-Harris - Extreme Metal
Dayal Patterson - Black Metal
Albert Mudrian - Choosing Death
Mudrian et al. - Precious Metal
Dora Hanninen - A Theory of Music Analysis
Brad Osborn - Everything In Its Right Place
Schwarz et al. - Keeping Score
David Lewin - Generalized Musical Intervals and Transformations
William Caplin - Classical Form
Stravinsky - Rite of Spring
Those are the horizontally stacked ones, the rest is mostly fiction going off to the right. I will eventually do a video about theory books!