This New Thai Tax Law Has EVERYONE Scared
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ธ.ค. 2023
- This new Thai Tax Law has everyone in Thailand talking, and scared. How will it impact you in 2024? I sit down with a Bangkok Lawyer to discuss where things are now, and where things are going, and how it might impact people looking to retire or become a digital nomad in Thailand.
This video is not sponsored in any way. My guest was nice enough to share his thoughts with all of you, so consider it a free visit to a high end tax lawyer.
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Imagine how difficult it would be to enforce these crazy and complicated laws. Actually moving savings into Thailand is counted as income !? That’s absurd.
The problem is the origin of the savings.. it could be dividend, capital gains, pension money that someone moved to their savings account... etc. there is no telling! This will be a cluster F of an amendment to implement!
@@ianmcnamee1652 Not savings. Income yes but not savings. Savings are post income tax. So if I bring in $1000 to Thailand how would they determine in which year it was saved? 1981? 2005? What was the tax rate in that year in that country ? How would anybody know ? Nobody keeps tax returns forever.
@@timkdiamond Absolutely.
The law failed to pass Parliament.
Enforcement for Expats will eventually be through the Visa application process requiring your tax number and if you have paid the tax the Thai Revenue department demand and accept.
That's a bummer - the US has a $500K capital gains tax exemption for a couple selling a house. If Thailand wants to tax 35% of that $500K, I'm out.
Agree
@@Thewootanglife I don't like the idea of renting. I want to be able to make changes & renovations.
Renting is extremely expensive now. You get less for more. Buying was still reasonable until this new wave of sh*t hit the fan
retiree
Its worse for the Brits (like myself) as our primary residence is not taxed at all!! Could be £10m and its still tax free when you sell (we only pay taxes when you buy). So if I sold my house in the UK and brought that money here it would be taxed at 35%!! There is zero chance of that happening! The other issue is pensions. In the UK pensions are highly tax efficient so people put a lot of money into pensions. We are also given a generous tax free lump sum benefit (25% of the pot). This is a total mess and people could very very easily lose 35% of their pensions, homes etc under these new rules. Dont even get me started on ISAs which are tax free!! Again Thailand will want their cut.
1. Don't retire in Thailand.
2. Don't bring big money into Thailand.
3. Rent, don't buy.
4. Consider other countries
This change is timely for me. I planned on retirement in Bangkok, but now I can look elsewhere and sidestep this issue. If this had happened after I arrived, it would have caused great difficulty. This will not only stop the flow of expats into Thailand, it will reverse it.
That's correct. If this goes through, we will be relocating.
What is happening to SE Asia, first Malaysia put their visa requirements beyond 99% of retirees and now this. I know they want to clean up the image of their countries but slamming on the brakes of the steady flow foreign money is surely not the answer.
I want to live in Thailand for free without paying money to their country.😂
@@overpeople-tz4xd putting tens of thousands of dollars in spending into the economy is not free. Which country in this world charges taxes as explained here to foreigners? None
@@overpeople-tz4xd Pay attention, please. I'm happy to pay tax on income earned in Thailand. Plus, retirees will spend loads of money in Thailand aside from any taxes. But paying income tax on savings earned in 1980, which, btw, was taxed at that time by my my home country? That's not right, and compliance will be virtually impossible. How can I prove that money may or may not have been taxed.
This has definately changed my mind on staying in Thailand, I think I will start looking where to move to. As much as I love living in Thailand, the government just makes it to hard
if they did not make it hard the country would be destroyed just look at the UK , EU , US , CANADA they are soon to be Muslim countries within 15 years
sure ..all the expats are going to check out ..i start my plan next week so on...
Zimbabwe is welcoming you anytime 🤪
@19:58 they talk about UK & US pensions being taxable again in Thailand when money is transferred into Thailand. BUT! The US-Thai DTA excludes that in Article 20. Then Article 21 excludes Thailand from taxing government pensions/annuities. Also, Article 6 excludes Thailand taxing rental house income unless the US gives up its right to that tax money from their citizen. The IRS hasn't surrendered the right to collect its citizens' rental income tax that I can find. So, the word 'may' in Article 6 is not in force.
Yet another country shoots itself in the foot.
I'm just as confused after watching the video. When I cash in my Roth IRA and sell my home and take Social Security and retire, if I have to pay tax to bring it in to Thailand, I won't be coming to Thailand. I'm not going to do taxes in the states and taxes in a foreign country. The Thai government better think long and hard about what they're doing.
It's turning into the same clownshow here as US. Time to look elsewhere.
Or you get the annual retirement visa based on bank balance and don’t bring any money over. Go to the ATM once or twice a month.
You cannot get annual retirement VISA without putting at least $22k in Thai bank account or proving six ways to Sunday you have income of at least 800k baht. Honestly all the freaking hoops to jump through plus this new tax fiasco just make it too ridiculous. Lots of great places to live around the world, Thai government needs to wake up. @@aeroAdvocate
It's straight forward, Thailand plans on taxing all income coming into the country. US expats can deduct whatever they have already paid but for most I'm guessing this means an additional 10-13% new taxes paid to Thailand. It's an attempted robbery.
Worse for Roth funds as you would have 0% tax liability in the US but pay the full Thai progressive tax rate. So if you were bringing in say $40k per year of funds(all Roth) you would owe Thailand 25% of that 40k($10k US).
Under the treaty, Social Security is not taxable Everything else is up in the air
This is a MASSIVE RED FLAG for me considering retiring in Thailand! Thanks for a very informative video 👍
Red flags have been popping up for years. Thailand is no longer a destination for retirees/expats. Those who can are leaving. Those who purchased and built homes are screwed.
Don't do it! Okay for partying short term. Nightmare long term. Money sucking
Why? Income is taxable...if you've paid due tax on your income, it won't be taxed again.
Don't retire in Thailand just move on every 3 months.. Let's see how this decision helps in the long term their economic situation. The money they will lose on this will now help Indonesia Malaysia etc... This whole change sounds completely unfair so people will not pay for it.
@@beefdripinit is not about when you've earned it, it's about when you will use it. Saving is classed as an accessible income. Pension falls into that category too 😂... ridiculous imo.
Well, I think this is going to crush the housing market in Thailand.
Yup all those new condos they are building for foreigners will be in grave jeopardy
What housing market 🤔
Shed sales
@@britcan4067 Beautiful places in Thailand I guess you have never been?
Isn't that a good thing? The locals need somewhere to live also
This conversation has stalled my plans to move to Thailand. I need a LOT more clarity before I am comfortable knowing what my tax status would be. Thanks Chris.
I reached that conclusion years ago. Thailand is a "no go".
I can't pay 30-35% tax on pensions and my rental house income AFTER paying tax in the USA. Don't do it, this is just the straw that broke the camel's back. And we usually accept things and just roll with it...
Look at the Philippines. Cheap lifestyle and more than likely your country has a pension agreement with them
This new Thai policy is in line with other countries' new moronic initiatives that only make a country less attractive for foreign capital, so no surprise here. So much for hopes of retiring in a beautiful tropic paradise.
It seems to me that Thai government does not want retirees with monthly pension or small savings. Personally, I have decided to put Thailand aside if the government plans to make my retirement super difficult with harsh immigration and taxation laws. There are many countries that don't tax my pension and savings. Hopefully Thai government learns a lesson from this taxation experiment and backtracks...
Have fun in the Philippines
@@alexandermeile6951 Shits all over Thailand. Unless you’re a drug addict of course. Then Thailand is the place for you along with all the other toxic ones there.
@@ianmcnamee1652 only pensions would not be taxed or just with rabates if they alredy have been taxed in the homecountry according to the DTA.
Actually not much thinking happens in Thailand. I have been here full time for 7 years and my days are numbered.
I think Thailand will figure it out. The money that people bring into the country and spend will go to the government anyhow in one form or another.
My wife and I have been retired in Thailand for a bit over a year now and planned on being here forever but now with the headaches of financial reporting and to also have the need for an accountant in Thailand, we will live in Thailand for under the 180 days per year and the rest back in Australia!
Bloody disappointing situation!
Or somewhere else in SE Asia instead of Australia?
But Australia and Thailand have double taxation prevention laws no?
Careful -- that lawyer said that the new law applies to both tax residents and non-tax residents (defined as people living there less than 180 days). What is the distinction between "resident for less than 180 days" and tourist for five months? Not sure. Lots unclear here. @michaeljolley6812
@@magicaree you still have to register and show proof that the tax has been paid in Australialand.
@@natfash6026that’s so insane. I should have bought more bitcoin. This is only going to make bitcoin payments more mainstream
My father retired to Thailand some 20 years ago. He is now in his mid 80's living in a nursing home after losing his wife at the beginning of 2023. There is absolutely zero chance of him having the wherewithal to be able to provide proof of taxes paid throughout is working life. He barely knows who he banks with. I myself am in my 50's and having seen what a good life he has had during his retirement was starting to consider it as an option for myself. Should the laws be implemented as proposed, I will choose to spend my retirement elsewhere.
Smart. Just try it first.
Try MM2H Malaysia
So we get taxed in our home country on our earnings and then we get taxed again if we move to Thailand and bring our savings with us?! That's completely unfair and absolutely unacceptable to me. Thank you Chris for bring this to light.
That’s is not what was stated, but you have convinced yourself.
@@danporath536if the thai tax % is greater than home, you pay the extra
Don't forget we also pay 7% tax on expenses (VAT)
It looks to me that the powers that be have severely misunderstood people from the Anglosphere's attitude to being taxed . Paying double price to enter a national park in Thailand is one thing but supporting chairwarmers with the last shekels a Westener will ever have just won't wash .
I want to live in Thailand for free without paying money to their country.😂
Well, that just knocked Thailand off my retirement list...
Good for you and Zimbabwe welcoming you 🤪
Mine too, it’s a joke the income was not acquired in the country, you are already being tax by your home country
Yes.
@@avia1669 GAZA CITY welcoming you 🤪
Many people will stay in Thailand 170 days not 180 days is it because they have so many rich Russians in the south
Who in their right mind would want to buy any property in Thailand next year? If we sell our property in Australia and many other countries, we are usually afforded capital gains tax exemptions or discounts of 50% tax free. There is absolutely no way I would want to move a large amount of a property sale proceed in Australia to Thailand if I am found to be subjected to potentially 35% tax! No vehicle purchases either. Everything now cancelled/on hold. Basically adding tax charges for remittance of funds to Thailand plus VAT tax on top!!
A property market crash to come? A huge glut of unsold properties and bankrupted/insolvent property developments could ensue, that relied on foreign investments before. Plus unemployment for Thais.
Basically so many income sources are targeted if this is enforced.
My privately funded Superannuation pension also will be taxed. Contributions put into my Super fund were from taxed income. Our Australian government has pushed hard for Australians to achieve a self funded retirement pension and enjoy tax-free benefits. Now Thailand is considered a hostile taxing country where my very hard earnt retirement pension is going to be fleeced by probably around 15%. No thanks. I don't love Thailand that much. And triple tiered pricing in hospitals, national parks etc. No entitlements as a tax payer really. So for what?
Even countries that have their pensions pre-taxed, you may still be taxed the difference if the Thai tax rate is higher. So if you think that you are safe because your country's pension already taxes you, you may want to make sure it's above Thai rates. Read the fine print of your dual tax treaty arrangement.
How many of us seriously have set up different accounts for each income asset class? Share dividends, managed fund distributions, other investment distributions, savings interest, capital gains proceeds, salaries, pensions, tax refunds (including franking credits), etc? Now the thought of having to forensically dissect my account for past deposits is basically impossible. In Australia we only need to keep tax records for 7 years. It's only property investments where we would retain all records of outgoings, from purchase date to claim a capital gains deduction on sale.
If we had for example 10 years of savings in an account, who realistically keeps records of every transaction source? Once a tax return is lodged each year in Oz that is it. Now under Thai law interpretation, I need to be able to backdate each source! Ridiculous.
Until there is clarity, I'd suggest any person planning on retiring to Thailand, be extremely cautious and move minimal funds in. Don't buy, just rent. Do not purchase high ticket items. And perhaps look at other countries to retire as a backup.
Wealthy elites and investors will have the loudest voices. And expats as a whole contribute a fair amount to Thailand. There are billions of Baht in Thai banks from foreigners. So we are not an annoying insignficance.
A large majority of expats retire here because of cost of living benefits. The extra taxes take that away. Exodus coming.
Run from Thailand. Holidays and run fast. Thank you Chris! You are n1!!!
Thanks to Mahanakorn Partners Group for this interview. Excellent find and referral Chris !
For my own notes: If I already paid income tax in the U.S., I don't want that money taxed again just for moving it into a Thai bank just so I can meet residency requirements. Also, the complexity of the tax risk sounds uncessarily painful (IMO). So skip the residency, just be a winter snowbird. 5Dec2023.
move it all into a thai bank now and you'll be fine
Pension is monthly
Moving all your savings into a THAI bank CRAZY. What year was the las t military coup attempt where police shot civilian s on the main streets and people were stuck at the airport for days.
I agree totally 👍
@@SilverwidowsThat's what I did.
Hi Chris, I have been watching your videos and many others that really got me excited to move to Thailand. I paid $18,920.00 US dollars for an elite visa. I was going to sell my condo in Hawaii and move to Thailand. Now I am totally pissed off and regret the thought of moving there. I guess I will just visit Thailand for about 5 months of the year and spend the rest of my time in Hawaii until my visa expires and then I will look at the Philippines as a retirement place and spend my money there. This law is going to chase foreigners out of Thailand and stop many people from ever thinking of retiring there. The government can sit back and watch their economy get destroyed by making terrible laws like this. Even if they make changes to the new law people will not have any faith in moving there because of the scary rules that they think of imposing after they have already moved there. I for one of many that will be in that category. Thanks for investigating Chris. I love your channel keep up the good work. This law affects people like you that are trying to get people to move there also. (What is the government thinking .)
Canadian government is trying to chase out their own citizens with climate tax, HST, vacancy tax, new increased property tax...we are overdue for world revolution...lol
You got that right @@drmorales3009
@@drmorales3009Philippines aren’t even close to Thailand for a lot of things…
I was getting bored of being on an island. Once you travel around the island 2 or 3 times you have seen and done everything and there is nothing new. But now I will use it as a home base and just go to Thailand for a extended vacation every year until my visa expires.
@@heellicker Paradise? Have you been there? 🤡
As a Canadian currently retired in Thailand, I very much appreciate your work digging into these tax changes for us. Nice work bringing in some expertise on this one. Thanks Chris!
Thai has a DTA with Canada so there is no question of you paying double tax. If you pay tax on your income in Canada you don't pay in Thai. If you have any doubts, Google it !
I'm currently on holidays in Thailand, watching this in horror. I'm 52 and intended to retire at 60 and live off my Superannuation. If i have to pay tax AGAIN on my savings. Then I'll be retiring somewhere else. Side note. Every time i buy something its got tax on it.
Same boat- I was even hoping to invest into a business inTL, but the compounding taxes have appeared to derail those plans. Bloody shame.
@@mishaknierim4737very bad idea to do a business in Thailand. We just started a Thai Co ltd. If you want to have nightmares - do it. When I knew before what I know now I would NEVER start it!!;;
This is next level Chris. Absolutely the best explanation I've heard. As a fellow Canadian I was weighing the complications of full expat vs snowbird. Think I'm going with the under 180 days now. Avoid Thailand tax and keep my Canadian perks. Cheers
As another Canadian, I second that.
USA here and I'm thinking the same
@@aspenward390 Me too!
Other than large purchases such as a villa, there are other ways to get access to your funds rather than a large transfer that could get flagged.
@@ChaoticCacophonywhy would anyone buy a villa that they dont actually own anyway, just rent and live it up
Im not paying taxes again on my income... my savings is mine... I planned on selling my house and using it to retire there... now I dont see how this is possible. Really upset and have to think of other spots...
It’s literally insane for savings to be targeted. If this is the case I’ll be retiring to Portugal and not Thailand.
Agreed. Retirees should not even have to file a tax return to the Thai government. Should be considered taken care of during the visa process.
Portugal also has new rules for non-EU citizens now...
@truusjenskens8485 Yeah due to Brexit the UK have made that decision 🙄. Borders well and truly controlled eh. No issue for me - not british so plenty of great options in Europe.
Portugal is history, they just got rid of the NHR tax regime. It's probably not a coincidence that both Thailand and Portugal are trying money grabs.
We don’t want you either!
Meeting with a tax specialist and receiving the proper information was an excellent initiative. Thank you very much 🙏
LOL a "Tax Specialist"
Yes pay tax on your money that has already been taxed No
@@rufanuf1 Tax attorneys can work as generalists or specialize in specific areas of tax law. Two popular specialties for tax attorneys are corporate tax and estate planning.
@@pierremarel Yes but there still all just legalised thiefs
Another great video...thanks Chris! After working and saving all our lives, my wife and I were originally planning on spending a great deal of time during retirement in Thailand. But now, unless they change the definition of taxable income, there's NO WAY in hell I'm spending more than 180 days in Thailand going forward. This is yet another example of a poorly thought out process by Thai officials and it's going to backfire on them spectacularly. No smart foreigner is going to allow a money grab on their already taxed foreign income...definitely not me! I've already spent a lifetime carefully navigating and planning around the US tax code to allow a 15-20% tax by the Thai government. Can you imagine having to submit years of sensitive US tax returns to the Thai government to decide what is taxed and at what rate over the years!?!?! Yeah...that's not happening!
Hello the rest of SE Asia that isn't Thailand!
It's funny that you guys came to our house. But he didn't help us repair the house. We don't want foreigners who think like this. We provide you with a high quality of life at a low price. You should help us back as well. You're saying I will go to your house. But if the road is broken The train is broken. I won't help fix it because I'm of no use. Our neighboring country, Thailand, is probably more suitable for you. You go to live in Laos. Myanmar can get it, Cambodia can get it without having to pay taxes. You will have a different quality of life.
😂
BACKFIRE ...lol
@bankk7314 True and I agreed. Take & Give, that they need to learn and understand
@@hgvbabe2561 ❤️❤️❤️❤️🙏🙏🙏🙏
Who the hell do you think is supporting all the bars, restaurants and bushinesses in tourist areas of Thailand? I'll give you a clue: it's not Thai people. @@bankk7314
Thank you. We are Americans who have been Retired in Honduras and were planning to sell everything and move to Thailand. Since we live off our dividends, this would have a huge impact on us. Thanks again Awesome videos.
Who has savings? Most people are living off of investment accounts which are earning dividends and growth. You should just assume you will pay 25-35% taxes on retirement income split between the U.S. and Thailand per the tax treaty. That's what I'm getting out of this. Hadn't considered this. This changes everything.
That would the bare minimum.@@Real_Natural
Only rent, never buy in Thailand. They sneaky.
OMG !! We were planning of moving to Thailand , we are both retired , my wife and me , but this new law changes everything !! If this is truly a fact , I will keep following your updates , but then I don't think we will be coming to Thailand .... This is really a crazy law !!
Nobody listened to what he said, only if YOUR HIGHER INCOME.....Not regular Guys middle income, so WERE GOOD😂😂😂😂
Try MM2H Malaysia, next door to Thailand
Great clarity and information, Chris.
So, retiring in Thailand brings not only Thai income taxes on monthly pension and other income earned outside the country on top of paying income taxes on worldwide income to your home (US) country, but also on any savings to supplement living expenses one pulls in. This latter tax resembles the wealth taxes of Spain, Italy, Greece and other countries, which claim to tax one’s worldwide assets of. Any value about a threshold of about 100,000 euros. So, money that these govts did nothing to help one earn decide they want the money anyway. Of the countries, Spain has the highest such tax, which is 2.8% annually, which means over 10 years the Spanish govt takes nearly 1/3 of your assets. For all of these govts and Thailand as well, one also must file annual returns in a foreign language which means having to hire firms to do this, including transaction costs, just to remain in them.
Here in the Philippines, I only pay US income taxes, and nothing to the Philippine govt. As a US expat, I can consult online from here, and exempt up to $124,000 of income from US income taxes. My visa to live here required I only had to deposit $1,500 in. Philippine bank and it renews annually for $10. English is spoken through the country. A total zero BS lifestyle.
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to put themselves through the nonsense of retiring to the Thailands and Spains of the world just to have a retirement in warm weather.
Wow. Wow, wow, wow. My husband and I have been considering retiring to Thailand. Now it looks like we will retire elsewhere and visit. Keep my money out of Thailand. Thank you so much for this comprehensive interview. Excellent information. I think this is going to lead to LESS money for the Thai government, not what they expected.
In Aus we complain about the Tax Office but this is a perfect example of the clarity we’re accustomed to in western countries that just isn’t a thing in Thailand. You gotta take the good with the bad… but in this case I might just skip out of this place.
Man...this changes a lot for me. I have about 3 years before I was planning on moving to Thailand. Living off my 401K and Pension... Now I am definitely second guessing that decision .
This is NUTS!!
I had Thailand on my list to retire but these Tax changes have me reconsidering.
Dale (Perth Australia)
Staying in France or maybe Spain.
Yes. It’s going to hurt people moving to Thailand. We will probably be looking elsewhere. Sad.
From what I understand ATM withdrawals, purchases on foreign credit cards, etc… are all still taxed. Paying for a visa then just paying for stuff using a debit card for cash and a credit card will not keep you out of paying taxes.
@@dhow414Good point. How could RD possibly sift through each and every foreign debit card transaction and then determine which withdrawal was from who? One of the millions of tourists or someone on a retirement visa. I can't see how that would be possible.
@@dhow414 How on earth would they possibly know if you've withdrawn cash from an ATM. Do the ATM companies report every transaction to the Thai tax authorities?
@@Reyone13 Exactly my question. I suppose there will be information on the transaction slip. A hypothetical situ. A foreign debit card withdraws 30k from a Thai ATM. Then what happens? Does an alarm ring somewhere that a foreign card has withdrawn $ 8XX.00 . Now they will have to determine if the foreigner is a tax resident or a tourist? Has the withdrawer been in the country for 6 months? Am I missing something here? Two 30k withdrawals per month will do me plus maybe a couple small purchases via my foreign credit card. My house is paid for and have no debts.I will not pay tax on already taxed income thank you.
@@GlennMaiKhaoRevenue could be alert and call you in to ask how you are supporting yourself on no declared income. Not sure what their capabilities are - however in Western countries the Revenue department is always the most efficient.
Can you make a video on “Exit Strategy - Thai style”, many people will prefer to just leave rather then deal with the uncertainty
That would be a very interesting topic and I for one would love to see. I've lived here for 20years and would like some guidance on how to make the move to Siem Reap for example.
@@jaideedave Just pay 100 USD,and get on the Jet, $49 USD for 30 day visa(can be done on line), $399 for 1 year year Visa(no income/insurance requirments), no 90 day reporting like a convict parollie, no drivers licence on 125 cc or lower,scooter, even cheaper rents.....
@@jdshemp Thanks jd.
@@jdshemp Plus Thai EXIT TAX! They get you coming and going.
Great explanation of the very draconian new tax laws. I was thinking of retiring there, but now it's out of the question. Will remain in the Philippines or Cambodia, where the visa and tax laws are so much better for foreigners.
Go where you are made welcome folks.
Thailand is really shooting itself in the foot...again.
Jeez my thoughts are sad I'm planning to retire and support a lovely Thy family with 2 children in care that had been abandoned 😢 Basically 😢 Now I'm sadly confused with the Tax law's implementation
Cambodia has same laws, just not enforced yet, they will, when directed by IMF. You will own nothing,and be happy....
@@AnthonyVallantine What's difficult to understand?
Thailand is going to tax all funds coming into Thailand at the Thai progressive tax rates. If the country of origin has a tax treaty that could lower the total tax due to Thailand by subtracting from the Thai income tax rate whatever has already been paid to the country of origin. It's basically a money grab attempt by Thailand and will probably blow up pretty fast.
@@MrSean03839 I think that retirees are mostly disappointed with this new responsibility to file taxes declarations in Thailand because they will have to pay tax accountants who prepare all necessary documents even if they do not have to pay additional taxes.
It means additional expenses and time spent for unpleasant activities.
It would be great to declare that retirees are exempt from the foreign income tax and do not need to file a tax declaration if they have no Thai income.
@@dmitriikurilov1569 I think the average person will be looking at an additional 5-10% increase in taxes. Hopefully Thailand changes the ruling again.
My sister comes from u k and now lives in Spain. She is fortunate to have the funds to employ solicitors and accountants. The tax system for her in Spain appears similar to what the Thai Government wish to start in 2024. She said even though I have an accountant it is still a headache trying to provide evidence of funds. Don’t need the headache or the uncertainty in my retirement.
You mean shes "unfortunate" enough to have the funds, surely?
It is different, the problem in Spain is the infamous 720 Model created by the conservative party back in 2013. Now it is been prove ilegal and the money have to be returned but even so you do not want that to happen in Thai. 10 years to repair the damaged is too much.
Oh my... scary to move to Thailand in 2024 until more info on how this new tax law plays out.
The first tax season where the new rules will come into play will be 2025. So until the first half of 2025 we won’t know what will happen. Not good idea to move to Thailand before then.
This is potentially a game-changer for me. I've been retired in Thailand for 4 years now, taxed in the US, but if this rats' nest of tax red tape remains in place, I'll be looking elsewhere (I'm sad to say).
Depends what rate you're tax at in America and how much you earn
@@Silverwidowshe would still have to file a race return.
You’re right, me too!!
This is exactly why RENTING is so much better than buying in Thailand…dodged that bullet 🎉🎉🎉
Absolutely. So many reasons to rent v. buy when in retirement.
I believe renting is not the issue. The problem is ALL money you bring to Thailand will be subject to their tax.
Thank you so much for this video. I have been saving and planning for years to retire in Thailand, infact I just came back a couple of weeks ago from spending a month there, partially a scouting trip for potential places to live. Two days after I got home I heard about this and well, if this is the case I will now be looking elsewhere for retirement. For those of us who will not be retiring millionaires this makes to much of in impact on me, financially. Also, I am bringing pets with me so moving around to other countries half the year to avoid this isn't an option. It's such a bummer, I love Thailand but not enough to pay taxes to them on money I've already paid taxes on.
Thanks Chris. So to get to Thailand I have to travel 30 hours. Then I get a 30 day exemption. Have to get a visa agent to arrange a bank account to deposit 25k to get a retirement visa for a year. Then I have to report my address to immigration every 90 days. And now I have to file a tax return and possibly pay the difference in taxes between Thailand and the U.S. I love Thailand, but I will have to pass on this. It is more about the BS paperwork than the taxes.
An option is to take several 30hr one way trips a year back home and bring back cash with you....or open a bank account in Singapore fly down a few times a year and bring your cash in.....but the tricky bit is there likely too ask for proof of tax residency status on applying for long stay visas...
@@user-ci6fd2co1r i think most of the banks require an ID to convert large sums. not sure about that tho. my local Isaan banks do require ID for anything over $5000. not that i've tried :D
@@user-ci6fd2co1rMoney sniffer dogs at airport, plus scanners through security will see bundles of cash in carry-on. May be stopped, money counted and your details recorded and flagged in system for revenue department database. They will know that people will use this as an attempt to back-door money into Thailand to evade tax. And if you are doing multiple trips doing this, you'll be putting a bullseye on you and probably stopped each trip back.
@@Peace-nb5lm i think they are jumping the gun. the powers that be can see this shift and they don't want the retirees taking off without depositing all their money. Thailand is still the best value for retirement money in the world, considering the modern infrastructure, top notch hospitals, low prices, and relaxed laws on everything...
Thailand will always be the same. they even turned off the traffic ticket cams because of too many complaints. if it hurts Thai people, which this law does, it won't make it far. i wouldn't panic until its set in stone (and they figure out how to enforce it). Best thing to do is stop listening to the panicking farangs and enjoy your life.
btw the law was proposed to get Thai expat money, not farang money. it wasn't thought all the way thru (as usual)....
Correct, but where's the alternative? 1 week of BS paperwork and $100 tax payment may not be bad. And maybe this is a precedent, that the UN started to gradually roll out to all countries. At least in Thailand, I already know the village I'll be staying in because finding another country and scoping the village where one stays is the equivalent of perhaps $10K of flights, hotels, food, etc. as sunk cost. I know that is what I spent on my trips here in Thailand as tourist scoping the area since 2014.
I live here and am worried I may only stay under the 180 days next year, also several of my friends paused their move here after hearing about this new law.
decision changed after this crystal clear discussion. THANK YOU SO MUCH..
Just like anywhere else, if you ask 10 attorneys their views on yet to be enacted laws, you are going to get 10 different interpretations. Worse case scenario is I live 6 months in Thailand and 6 months elsewhere. Best case scenario is this whole thing dies in a flaming heap like so many other things in Thailand have in the recent past. Just over a year ago you could do serious prison time for smoking a joint, now there is a shop every 100 meters selling you all the weed you could smoke.
Oh, remember, according to Top Officials and Police, there is NO prostitution in Thailand.
You can still go to prison for vaping, which i think is mad
It's all part of the Great Reset. They are falling into line with what the 'One World Government' (UN) are saying. Bookmark this
That thing you said about weed, well that law is about to change as well.
Ever the optimist. Goodluck with that mate
There is no prostitution in Thailand indeed because there are no prostitutes.
There are bar girls, gogo girls, freelancers, and no prostitutes 😉
Retiring Thailand is on permanent hold now. Can't own property, duel pricing, taxation without representation.
I have enjoyed living 7 years in Thailand. However this new government has lost me. Its time to go. Philippines 🇵🇭 maybe? VIETNAM, Bye-bye Thailand
Great choice of interviewees. The man is very knowledgable and articulate.
Agreed. That guy did a very good job. Chris did a good job setting things up as wel. I'm sure there was some prior understandings and prep. before the interview.
On a subject like this it's not the easiest thing to do.
Exellent, the best information I've seen on this so far. It really is far reaching for retirees. Not only the burden of paying tax but also the administration and paperwork, cost of a tax accountant etc. All of those coming next year (that was our plan) potentially paying tax on the $800k each transferred in for the visa bank balance too.
Its a bit like Brexit - all the Brits retired to Spain thinking it won't apply to them, but of course it does. You either fess up, do the tax return, pay the tax, or break the law and potentially get caught. Or third option - retire somewhere else instead. Option 3 is looking more and more attractive!
Option 3. Get out of there as fast as you can :)
Thank you for posting this Chris. I just scrapped my plan to move to Thailand. The overreach of this amendment is so destructive. Thailand will just be on my list of places to visit now. Truly disappointed. Thai government needs to rethink this. I'm not opposed to paying taxes but you get nothing in return after spending money on Thai rent and services. Plus having to pay an accountant to prove you were already taxed? That's more money out the window. This will hurt Thailand in the long run I fear. So disappointed.
Cheap Charlies are getting the boot
You pay more than the locals for every day expenses, now you may have to pay draconian taxes on foreign income - and in return you’ll get absolutely nothing. Welcome to Thailand
@cryptocrusader6078 how is it about "Cheap Charlies"? If you save for your entire life, pay tax your entire life, & Thailand wants to tax you on your already taxed savings, that's not "cheap" that's robbery dude 🤷♂️
@@shanefoster9296 Thailand has made it clear they don't want Expats living here on the cheap , they know the West is bankrupt hence the move to BRICS+
Enjoy paying double tax do you? @@cryptocrusader6078
Fascinating, Intriguing, and Absolutely Mind Blowing. So after more than 30 years of listening to it, it is actually true about how the Thai Brain works. As an EU citizen my retirement choice, although very different, was between Hua Hin, TL, and Corfu, Greece. Greece being the more expensive but least problematic has now gotten my money.
TL?
Taxing money which was accrued prior to becoming a tax resident is crazy and I don't think that is done anywhere in the world. I doubt that will stand up to the inevitable court challenges if that is indeed the interpretation.
I believe you are correct. This would make Thailand have the most draconian taxation in the world, possibly in history. Something tells me this will fall flat on it's face. Let's hope so. These people are so out of touch with reality. Are they even human? Makes me wonder.
@@markob17 Yeah there is NO way this last. In the last 18 months Thailand has seen over 40k of milionaires come in on elite Visas or busines ventures to stay long term. I am pretty sure all of them came to Thailand as a tax haven, now to charge them more than even America or the UK would....yeah...this is going to fall hard on it's face.....
Is Thailand's economy seriously going this bad they are F'n over everyone moving here? It was just last year they made an elite visa wanting more people to come and retire, or was that the bait and this is the switch?
@@EndlessTravelsHope not. They will probably try to squeeze foreigners some other way, like raising the retirement and elite visa costs, etc. But I guess this is better than this insane tax scheme. Let's hope they don't meddle in either and just scrap this.
@@markob17 It has to be revised. Exempt the citizens of the 61 DTA countries from requiring tax filing as it is now.
@@EndlessTravels It does feel like a bait and switch. I waited 3 months for Thai government to revise the ruling prior to 1/1/2024 to exempt DTA expats but nothing happened and I lost hope they will do that tomorrow, 12/31/2023.
I am happily married with a Thai women for the last 12 years and we live in a South mediterenian European country.
My wife is working and she has a resident card that provides to her ALL the Same rights every person in this country has.
Health insurance pension social benefits education unemployment benefits exc exc.
She do not have to go to make a year Visa get stamped report every 3 months and take photographs of our home and our bed.
She pays taxes but the first 10.000 euro is tax free.
If we move back to Thailand and we want to take our savings our pensions and our home renting income that all are already taxed in our country we will need to have all this hustle for what....
I am farang i will never have a proper resident card i will never have acces to the Thai health system i will never have any kind of rights.. and i will still need to report stamped take photos of my bed and charged X5 times the price of a Thai in a national park exc......even though i will now be double taxed.
SPOT ON! Thailand wants to eat the cake but shit on the plate.
May I ask what South Mediterranean European country you live in? I may need to move there. Thank you
I like the way you phrase it: "with a Thai women" You're my idol and will follow that lifestyle. It has the sanctity of a couple but within the scope of a harem.
So, the conclusion from this video is that we are unsure how this law will affect people bringing savings into Thailand. According to the interview, the accountant suggested that a tax event is triggered when savings are transferred into a Thai bank account. If that’s the case, then this is an absolute game-changer, and many people from the West will likely be rethinking their strategy when it comes to living in Thailand.
Agreed. I basically live on my savings. Was planning on spending 3 million baht or so of it next year to build my Thai wife a home in Isaan. I earned the majority of this savings a well over a decade ago. No way in hell I'm paying these scum a penny of that money. One, I paid taxes on it already, two, I worked my ass off in corporate hell for years to acquire it, and three, it's not income, period. And I'm not ready or willing to bring that money into Thailand now because I shouldn't have to. It lives in my USA accounts, and will continue to do so until I'm ready to spend it here. That's how I've always spent my money here. Don't trust these banks and this currency is crap. They also don't pay you a lick of interest for holding it here. Sucks that I have to already basically hold 400k in limbo to begin with to deal with their ridiculous visa process. I hope this tax thing fails, because it's a joke, and obviously it will negatively impact my life. I hope I don't have to end my marriage and leave this place. Hoping this fails or there are solutions. Because no way in hell I'm paying these people an extra dime for money I've earned via blood, sweat and tears over a decade ago.
@@markob17 the devil is in the detail… and at the moment no one knows the detail. Hang in there mate and let’s see how this rolls out in 2024 🙏
Thank you @@jjmstudios!
There is always a loop hole you have the ability to send money to your wife as a gift they would not tax her problem solved. The tax code if it says money sent to your account will be taxed or money that you send over to your bank acct will be taxed bingo don’t send it to your acct period f them They wanna play games with retirees bring it
@@roymoxley2587 "....you have the ability to send money to your wife as a gift they would not tax her problem solved."
Not sure about that. IIRC spouses are treated in Thai law as the same "juristic person"?
I genuinely love Thailand and I've been visiting here for 30 years from the US. I've been living here in semi-retirement for almost 18 months now. It appears that as it's written now, it could cause a significant net negative impact on the economy of Thailand. Sure they could get more in taxes from money transfers, but they will potentially loose billions of USD overall because Investors want stability, not new tax laws made specifically to target them. Foreigners will invest in places with less tax liability, and less paperwork to prove where the income was derrived. Even retirees that don't have to pay additional taxes might have to go through additional filings. I don't want that hassle or the potential that I might be charged taxes here erroneously or even accidentally. Another solid report Chris - thank you !!
And this is the duality of Thailand. Their economy basically runs on tourism. Tourism dollars feed all strata socioeconomically. I could argue that it’s a significant contributor at the lower to medium end of the economy giving Thai mums and dads real opportunity. But the flip side is they don’t want to admit that the country runs on foreign dollars because it erodes their national pride. Once you understand that then all the bullshit that takes place around things like this make sense. Eg. Put a bill forward to tax foreigners. But don’t actually pass the bill or do t enforce it. Ie. Look like you’re doing something but don’t harm the goose.
This is what happens when a political party uses bribes to get elected.
They should revise the law to state that "citizens from DTA countries are exempted from filing Thai income tax".
@@timkdiamond It's not a bill, it's a new interpretation of existing tax laws and went into effect Jan-1-2024.
@@timkdiamond Excellent post. And is similar to my line of thinking.
When you break down the numbers and think about it.... They have created their own hornets nest, big time. If they don't make quick and reasonable adjustments the fallout will be enormous. Foreign investment will shrivel up like a prune.
My wife is Thai. This kills any idea she ever entertained about buying a home for us to retire in. Thailand can pound sand. She has little enough good to say about her government.
Chris another great video. As a brit expat been living in Thailand for the last 12 years and married to a thai, I will definitely consider and probably will move elsewhere. I am not paying additional taxation on already heavily taxed income. Thanks so much.
It may not be bad as you think it is. In the end, might end up paying just a couple hundred dollars per filing. I calculated $20K (head of household) and there was no tax liability. Thai even owes me $50 of refund.
@@bigradwolf5001Two people living on only $20k? LoL.
@@MrSean03839 Haha no just 1 person. My kids stay in US. It looks like B750K is $21.8K which keeps my tax rate at 15%.
@@bigradwolf5001 750k baht is right at the line for $15%. One more baht over will bump you to 20%. Not to mention you are trapped living on only $20k a year, no thanks on that!
I'm trying to figure out the Thai deductions listed below. I'm wondering if that means my wife and I can deduct 220k Thai baht each year?
Deductible expenses for income:
50% of income (capped at 100,000 baht)
Personal allowance:
60,000 baht
Spouses (with no income):
60,000 baht
WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, with a tax law like this, would be encouraged to retire in Thailand off of savings, that's ALREADY been taxed over the years? Hence, Social Security and personal savings accounts. Who on earth would want to bring any retirement resource of savings into Thailand? NO one!. THIS IS ABSURD indeed. There is no way I would want to retire there under those circumstances. That's just highway robbery and basically DOUBLE taxed. It's SAVINGS for god sake, NOT an income. Thailand would be cutting themselves off at the knees under this new law IF this is the case. I would never retire there and have my money moved there if it is considered "Income". That's crazy! RUN for the hills retirees. I might as well stay where I'm at in the states.
Thanks for this highly informative video. Currently, as an expat from the US for example, you could easily retire in Thailand on social security benefits of $2,000 - $3,000 a month. For people like this, the new law would be a game changer because their lifestyle In Thailand would be considerably impacted. Hopefully Thailand will be smart enough to not penalize people who want to being their earnings and savings in order to spend it a country where the workforce would benefit. I see it as a TRIPLE tax - once at the origin, once in Thailand , and once again in Thailand from the businesses and people who derive income from the money spent. NOT good .
Maybe the Thai govt doesn't really want or need poor retirees coming in anymore? Especially when there's throngs of richer Chinese to take their place?
Human greed has no limits :(
Great explanation. Hope the Thai Govt won’t mess their future up. Am quite sure a lot of people will rethink retiring in The kingdom or not.
Don't worry. I don't think it will happen. They might experiment it, but they will change the laws after they realize that they will lose the money for sure!
@fuzzyboomboom9742 We will see how Rich the Chinese are with the real estate collapse, most companies diversifying supply chains by moving some manufacturing to India and Vietnam.
Why would any foreigner agree to this as we get zero benefits from the country. Example: we pay ten times more to enter a park.
Chris, great video! Thank you for all your hard work! I have been in Thailand for 2+ years, love it, but due to this law, i am now in Vietnam as a plan B, should clarification not come promplty or at all in retirees favor. New plan is less than 6 months Thailand, then share the economic benefit with Laos, Vietnam & The Philippines for 6 months plus 1 day each year. Red tape and tax head aches are not what we need to be dealing with in the 2nd half of our lives! Looking forward to your update! 🤞🙏 Thanks again and Cheers for doing this for the rest of us! 🙏🙏🙏
Well this is a bit awkward Chris!
Thank you for attempting to get some clarification on the implications on retirees savings / retirement payments when bought into Thailand. My wife and have been setting up our future here in Thailand for a number of years, and we both hope the new amendments don't kill this dream.
So you either pay heavy taxes there or you stay in country less than 180 days. If you want to stay longer you need to hire a lawyer or tax pro to plan you tax strategy (money flying away), you still likely need to pay some on taxes (more money flying away). Mess anything up in paper and may need to pay even more in taxes. When I move overseas to retire I have no desire to need to jump through hoops to try to keep as much of my retirement money as possible. The Visa, no matter what version you go for, is already going to cost a fair amount and lead to a lot of hoops to jump through.
I was looking at retiring very well off, about $7k a month, in Thailand. Now I will retire someplace else.
This law and changes to Visa laws has made things expensive and complicated enough to write Thailand off my list. I will still visit Thailand but I will not move there and invest my money in property there. I suspect this will influence a very large percentage of expats resulting in a large drop in people moving to Thailand. Thailand may become a small player in retirement from overseas.
Changes in the future may negate this but once this goes active, even if only for a month or two, trying to undue the damage will be hard as the expats trust will have been lost.
I guess that's their ultimate end goal..less expats retiring LT there!
@@lecannetI don’t think so, foreign retirees are big revenue driver for Thailand…
@@freedominsteadof1984 🧐what do u think? Nobody is gonna line up for double even tripple taxing!
@@lecannet I agree but as the lawyer says: it’s all of this law passes and will be used against retirees instead of the big fishes only.
@@freedominsteadof1984 so less retireees will WANT to reside FT then...as will b the natural outcome?
Well was retiring in 3 years and moving abroad. First Malaysia bit the dust and now Thailand. I feel sorry for those in the condo and retail businesses. Not only is this a nightmare to enforce but also a major disincentive to move to Thailand. They are off my list. Looking to Panama now and only vacations sometimes in Thailand. Even if they modify this, uncertainty and the prospects of draconian changes nullifies the appeal of the country for residence. Good luck to Thailand as they will need it.
100% correct ✅ who in their right mind would move there not knowing when they would change the law again..
Yeah, my dream . To retire in a place where I have to file and pay tax on my retirement and savings . Every 90 days do a report. Every year do a visa update for a new visa.
And everytime you want to leave you need a re-entry permit. And even we will pay taxes we will pay Farang fees in the national parks....555
beats winter depression in northern Europe
11:00 And, as a tax resident of Thailand, I would have to report all income, no matter where it is earned on the planet and no matter whether the money is repatriated into Thailand !!! This sounds aweful !
This is crazy stuff, you can get 6 months in prison if you don't declare all your income world wide even if you are exempted from tax!
This means all foreigners who live permanently commit this crime and can be punished for it. But in most cases Thailand just ignore it and thet don't even give out TIN. But if they dislike you...
With this rule, the Thai revenue dept will have all foreigners residing in Thailand permanently over a barrel. At any point they could audit your foreign income and good luck figuring out of the money you remitted into Thailand what was previously taxed in your home country, at what rates, etc…. The Thai authorities will likely reject all foreign tax documentation so youll be screwed no matter what.
So the money i have in tax free isa investment accounts in the UK will be taxed at the full Thai rate when brought into the country as monthly income. Currently between 15-20%. We also have a tax threshold in the UK where you only pay tax after a certain amount, in Thailand that would be fully taxable. This also makes bringing the 800k bht into the country for the visa will be subject to it even if it comes from UK savings. If Thailand don't want me to come and spend my money there, I'll have to look elsewhere.
The 25% tax free lump sum on UK work/private pensions will also be taxable in Thailand. Nightmare
Exactly. Anything not taxed in your source country would be subject to taxation in Thailand at whatever rates apply there. Makes zero sense to move to Thailand anymore.
Yep, Somchai will con you out of your tax free investments. Clownshow government. Miss the old dictator Doop now....f'ing clownshow. Time to go elsewhere..
Tax exemptions and rules in a foreign jurisdictions don't apply in Thailand, if that is where you are being taxed. That is the same for every country. The money is taxed according to the rules of the jurisdiction of residence, not the jurisdiction it was earned in. Like I said, every country does that.
Great topic for these times. Thanks for bringing in a pro Tim, great topic! I learn something every time I tune in to your channel. Great work buddy!
Wow, great video Chris!!! Thank you so much for fielding these tough questions and researching a tax professional to help explain all this, again, many thanks!!!
We are 3 weeks before Jan 1st and its still a total mess. Just WOW
This government and every past one here is beyond incompetent, and way beyond out of touch with reality. Let's see how this money grab plays out.
Nothing will be clarified. The Thai authority will keep this vague so they can arbitrarily squeeze extra taxes from you whenever they feel like
Starting to look like Thailand will just be a short term visit from now on. What a shame. Thanks for the info Chris.
This is such a pity... I was born in Thailand of America parents and all I wanted to do all my life was to live in Thailand. I have just a few more years to my retirement. I was looking forward to my new life and my learning all things Thai. I feel as if "The rug of my deepest personal dream to live in Thailand" has been pulled out from under my feet. My husband is from Mexico, so I guess we will either live full time in Mexico and just visit once and a while Thailand. It is very sad for me.
I did notice that there is a flooding of Chinese coming into Thailand. I wonder due to the poor economy of China if the Thai government decided to watch "incoming money" from outside sources and declare a "type of war" to these personalities hiding their riches inside Thailand and away from the CCP. Maybe Thailand realizes that this is their chance to create great wealth for the government by fixing this "loophole" of "no taxes paid by extremely wealthy personalities running away from China" into the arms of Thailand.... "Thailand decided... no way will money come in this way".... now... "small already taxed incomes like mine and my husband will be "more than likely be taxed twice".... the economic problems of one country (China specially) is creating a huge economic impact of financial uncertainty at a 35% tax on money already earned and taxed..this is extremely unfair. My dream (my life goal) to return to Thailand where I was born and experience this world will not happen for me. Thailand will suffer in the long run. Thank you Chris for the information and providing someone like me make good financial information on such a heavy tax from Thailand that I am not willing to pay twice (once from US then follow a second pay to Thailand).... "poof" goes my dream to live in Thailand.
Outstanding interview! You asked all good questions. Thank you for posting.
Your video quality is always amazing! Keep up the great work. Planning on visiting Thailand soon.
Great video and very helpful Chris. Thanks for taking the time and finding a good resource to bring us up to date on this. Hate say it is clear as mud at the moment and only time will tell but at least some of the implications are coming into focus. My thought is to hire this firm. 🙂
It still sounds like taxes will be assessed on ANY savings brought into the country. I have savings on income I earned and paid taxes on 20 or 30 years ago. If I bring that money into Thailand will that be considered assessable income? That’s crazy. Sounds like Thailand does not want any foreign investment at all.
That appears to be the situation. I live on a somewhat meager savings, so this is a no go for me. Earned that money 13 years ago.
Good luck trying to prove to the Thai tax authorities when and at what rates taxes were paid on accumulated savings. This is madness
Thank you for taking the time to put this together It's very insightful and very thoughtful great work
Chris, time to do "Retired Working for You: Indonesia Edition". Maybe Philippines also? I think if I need to hire a tax accountant in Thailand, it's likely gonna be marked off my list. Also, if your hypothetical guy had $250k in savings that was a mixture of salary, inheritance, and investment returns earned over a 30 yr period all commingled in one account, how do you sort out which money he's bringing into Thailand if he's only bringing in $10k at a time?
Philipiness ??5555 Indonesia??? Seriously????. Terrible infrastructure and natural disasters are all too common
My thoughts exactly, if all your savings are accrued into a single bank account and you only send a portion of it to Thailand then how the heck can you identify which dollar came from when/where!
@@Peace-nb5lm Its all about what the WEF world bank wants, Start connecting the dots.
@@Peace-nb5lm I understand what they're doing but personally for me the cost maybe too much for my retirement. It makes sense that people using their infrastructure and services should pay for it, ie police, fire, roads, etc. Expats shouldn't be exempt from it, that's just fair. They may be in a position now with an influx of Russian and other foreign expats flooding their country that they can be picky with the quality of expats that they attract. It sucks for us lower net worth expats.
@@robmac3103 or just don't send anything to thailand. pay for your expenses with your international credit card. get money from the atm. That's what tourists do. why wouldn't you do it if you live fulltime in thailand?
Excellent interview. The case study questions were a brilliant way to glean information from an obviously keenly smart and knowledgable advisor. Very informative. Fantastic journalism. Great job Chris!
This would completely screw our plans. We wanted to sell our house and move to Thailand. I would work remotely there under the digital nomad visa but I am not going to pay 35% tax on our savings and our sold property. Especially as we would buy new property with that money in Thailand.
Luckily you at least found out in time to avoid falling into the Thai tax trap! Lots of foreigners got long-term residence visas and are now stuck subject to the whims of the arbitrary Thai tax authorities.
Thailand has agreements with 61 countries that exempt double taxation.
Me too. In same situation. Let's hope they see some logic in their stupidity.
@@littlevampire79 You clearly weren't paying attention. CGT exemptions and progressive tax differentials will result in huge outlay for most expats.
As it stands based on this conversation, I would have to reconsider my plan to move to Thailand. I know this might change in terms of the law but there is now way I will pay tax twice on my savings or pension, as I have spent my life being careful about pay tax and wont want to file taxes in Thailand.
It’s pretty much a progressive sales tax because you’re transferring money over there to spend it. The ways to avoid it are to spend less or not be there over six months. It will have a lot of unintended consequences. Just the extra compliance effort and cost, plus, do you really want Thai officials knowing how much money you have? I don’t.
Well they knew it already as soon as you had to bring all those bank letters and bank statements every year to the IO for extension of stay
@@susanzimmerli5178 No,thats only the account you have deposited the 800000 Baht,or equivilant into.....
thanks chris for going above and beyond with looking out for and keeping us informed about this new ammendment that will affect us all in one way or another still keeping the dream alive i hope that they work out in a positve way for us all
So my plan will become to semi retire less than 6 months in Thailamd, partially in Philippines and partially in US. Basically they have encouraged me to spend less time in Thailand.
The Philippines is now looking SO much better! I lived in Manila before for eleven years. They don’t have any of these complicated over the top laws for retirees. No. At least not yet and haven’t done so. So far. This is insane for Thailand to do this! It’s like they have these older people sitting there in their government jobs bored to death and they feel like they must stir up the waters! Just to do something! They don’t use their brains. They don’t realize how this is going to now affect so many foreigners out there from having to think twice now about retiring in Thailand! I would! It’s typical mentality and behavior from the Thai government. They don’t believe or can’t believe that “Less IS More!” Not “more is more”.
Don't worry to much, its the Thai love affair of paper work, there must be a city created somewhere in Thailand just to store it all.....there will be amendments id be very surprised they go after pensioners or self funded retires, in the end it it defeats there purpose of elite visas and encouraging more well heeled people into there country...
100% accurate assessment. 🙏
Deadly serious - it’s like the whole nation has a learning disability.
There’s two factors to this, neither of them actual valid valuable reasons.
One is it’s a backlash to the degradation of Thai culture from them letting waaay too many foreigners into the country and having a lot of them stay. So from their perspective they now think they have a potentially untapped onshore financial resource from which they can raise government funds from.
Two, because of the total lack of enforcement, it’s basically a matter of looking like you’re doing something as opposed to actually doing something.
In other words, taxing expats is good political currency regardless of whether the government even raises a single dollar off it.
Don’t even ask where the tax dollars are actually going…
Which really gives you a good insight into the Thai mindset. Every foreigner is subject to being a financial resource for Thailand first and an actual person second.
I’ve experienced it first hand. I’ve bought land and built houses in Thailand and lived there for five years. Could speak the language fairly well but nothing seemed to make any difference whatsoever to my standing in the Thai community. In fact, by doing those things made me even more of a target. People would come to the house and ask for money. 😳
In the end I decided to enjoy my retirement instead of putting up with a whole country’s BS.
Yeah, it's unfortunate that Thai authorities not only fail to see the bigger picture, mostly because Thais believe Thailand is the centre of the world, but Thai authorities do not give a FF about foreigners. Pre-Covid, I actually had planned to retire in the Philippines, definitely fewer hoops to jump through, and my wife is Filipino, but a fair bit younger than me and she wants to stay in Australia and work. However their absolutely ridiculous response to Covid, which persisted after other ridiculous responses, persuaded me that it is sufficiently backward, moreso than Thailand, not to be worth spending too much time in. Having said that, as I am not yet retired I have already worked out how I will stagger my time in Thailand, which I do love, with time elsewhere in SEA, or home. 3 months in Thailand 2x a year, and the rest interspersed with the Philippines, Bali, Cambodia and Laos, then home, perhaps a month at a time. This is perhaps an even better plan than living full-time in Thailand as I will have a trip to look forward to, something new, and I won't get stale. I may actually in that case have gto rethink a retirement visa for Thailand!
@@mcconnellpeter Now we’re talking. Bravo! Similar for me. ❤️🙏
The problem with the Philippines is that the internet is poor and public transportation is really poor. Now that Thailand is not in the list, the better option would be Malaysia or Vietnam.
Thailand just did that to make klauss schwab happy, he came few years ago to set rules after covid operation.
This is absolutely the best and most intelligent video I have seen on the subject, keep up the good work.
Great video, very informative - thanks for all your hard work
This definitely changes my plans. I was going to spend 9 months in Thailand and 3 in the USA. With Thailand being my home and all the toys included cancel that plan now. There are a lot of other sunny beachy places with better expat tax rules
Way too many "what if" scenarios for me. My 1st reaction is not Thailand for retirement. So, if a person is obtain a retirement visa $25000, now an American would have to pay tax on this money that already has been taxed. Thank you for the work you've done.
They are not getting a dime of my money via some tax. I will have to leave my Thai wife and leave this shit show of a country if so.
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This $25000 Thai Elite visa smelled fishy from the very beginning 😂
I has always been too suspicious to trust $25000 to any dictatorship and then hope that they are not going to keep their end of the bargain.
From ur channel I got this Tax n Law consultant firm. And i have sent them one inquriy. And believe me I got the reply within 30min and tomorrow 2nd Jan, i will have my Zoom call with them.
No show off, no attitude. Simple approach.
Great Tax n Law firm.
Thank you.
This level of scrutiny would take all the joy out of living there... imagine constantly having to comply and be subject to these policies year after year
This is very bad for the retirees if they pass this law.!! I may change my new home to Vietnam instead of Thailand.
There is a work-around for that@@Thewootanglife
Check The Phillipines out for retirement. Better infrastructure. People are educated and friendly - definitely unlike Thailand - and usually speak English perfectly well. Check out the island of Palawan. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Visas are easy. Takes 15 minutes in a government office in an air conditioned shopping mall most of the time - unlike the absolute bullshit you have to go through at any Thai Immigration office. Better beaches. Better climate. No substance abusing expat crowd. And it's almost half the price. Anyone going to Thailand these days just hasn't done their homework BEFORE the tax laws. Check it out.
@@timkdiamondThe Phillipines doesn't have a better infrastructure than Thailand. Friendly people and easy visa rules are the only two benefits i can think of.
@@neonomad1939 Where do you live in Thailand? And where have you been in The Philippines?
@@timkdiamondfood is horrible, crime is higher and I don’t know where you think you’d have a better infrastructure? And let’s not forget the Islamist problems.
👍 for a well conducted and informative (although at times baffling) interview. 👎🏼 for my plans on moving to a bureaucratic nightmare when I already have that in the USA! Sorry Thailand~
This all seams very confusing and difficult to prove. Can’t imagine how I would go about proving that I already paid taxes on my money after a lifetime of saving. Makes me think Thailand is not the place I want to retire.
Hi Chris, very good information. Thanx for the input
I literally just spoke to a private immigration consulting firm about this and was told that the long term resident visa holders would NOT be affected by this new amendment. However, im very skeptical. One of the benefits of the visa soecifically states that foreign income is tax exempt. I wish you asked the lawyer about that specifically as he mentioned the visa.
If you’re a tax resident living in Thailand 180+ days I don’t think your visa status matters.
@jeffgreenwaldJLG You'd think so but there's a reason why they marketed this VISA with that rule... the VISA even provides you a work permit to work in the country and is meant to attract work from home individuals to work from Thailand so more than 180 days
@@glogie19 with a work-visa-permit you have to prove and show the workcontract ai your employer, and then you pay tax anyway
Amendment didn't pass. Are we living in the past or future?
@@masteryancodesan link?
Great Video Chris , good idea to actually talk to someone that can comment professionally on this, so my understanding is for example if you are taxed in the Uk on your income you will only pay any difference in tax in Thailand if their tax rate is higher. lets see how things pan out early 2024 but this is a very negative step for Thailand, you are right many will start looking elsewhere, which is a real shame as Thailand is such a wonderful country.
Hi Chris, you asked very good questions. Thanx
Excellent information provided, CP. Thanks very much!
Fantastic and professional interview. Great tax expert, and wonderful guy to listen to. Thanks a lot Chris. Well done mate !.
Hello❤❤❤
Absolutely agree, that lawyer is fantastic and very straightforward.