The New Thai Tax Law that EVERYONE is Talking About
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- Big news in Thailand. This new tax law has everyone talking, and a bit scared. I will detail the rules and how it might affect you. So if you're ever considering relocating to Bangkok, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Samui or anywhere else in Thailand, there's lots of information in this video.
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0:00 New Thailand Tax Law Explained
2:15 Digital Nomad Visas
3:11 Case Studies - Will this Affect You?
4:52 Will this Actually Happen?
5:40 What Are The Risks?
7:04 Thai Government Update
ok, since so many of you have asked in the comments, here's a link to the 2nd Channel. This one is going to start to go in the direction of informational videos all about the topic of relocating to Thailand, so if that isn't of interest to you no need to check it out. But here's the link anyways: th-cam.com/channels/jHMnzMFiA-q2ttl-lh54Bw.html
Where can i get the Tee^?
Thank You. I'm a wheelchiar bound Dude hit my mid-50's and am about to relocate from Cali to Pattaya. Apprieciate the info as I try and figure this all out.
Stop putting fear into everyone not going to happen.
@davidhanak2767 what do you base that statement on? Please share.
Read my explanation below.
Chris,
There’s close to ZERO chance of this happening. I suggest interviewing a Thai tax accountant for clarity. I did that and here’s what I learned:
1/ There IS NO LAW. It’s just a proposal. Thailand has a long history of proposals that go nowhere.
2/ The Thai banks don’t have the technology to report and administer this concept. It would probably take years to adapt. Note that the January 2024 implementation date you quoted has already been pushed to July 2024 per the update you displayed.
3/ Reviewing and administering the 61 tax treaties is beyond complicated, close to impossible.
4/ The government can only tax what it can track. Thai banks would be a starting point. However, most foreigners maintain a foreign bank account, which won’t report to another government.
Eg A person could withdraw Thai baht from their US bank via a Thai ATM, which isn’t a taxable activity. Then there’s crypto, etc.
When to worry about this:
1/ If you’re required to adopt a Thai tax ID number
2/ When it becomes an actual law, backed by an actual rollout plan (not just an idea).
For now, just enjoy Thailand 🇹🇭 ❤
What Ihave learned over the years....if governments can generate easy money, they will do just that. I think this will be a stupid move coz neighbouring countries are getting the attention from foreigners too.
@@Akula1963 This isn’t easy money. It’s way too complicated for the tax dept to administer. They would have to invest in massive tech and staff expansion. Also, you have a good point about neighboring countries offering competition, which means lost foreign expenditure, which lowers the tax base. More reasons why this proposals won’t become a law.
What about expats who do have a tax ID number. Should they be worried?
But its good youtube click bait founded by online panic by people who love to panic about any minor thing because they need some fear in their lives. (not Chris, but everyone else that goes into uproar over the slightest news about anything, anywhere, "THIS IS THE DEATH OF XXXX")
@@Baleur True 👍🏼
I’m 70 now and traveled in 45 countries. 23 years ago, I visited Thailand. I gave up on Thailand then, after understanding their immigration policies. Now on a Philippines 3 year tourist visa. Most passport holders extend monthly, every 2 or 6 month extensions, up to 3 years. Do a visa run for one day, return and reset for another 3 years. Currently Philippines immigration just started tourist extensions electronically. There are no taxes on your incoming money transfers. I’ve been coming here for 22 years, part-time and full-time. Thank you to The Philippine people for helping make a great retirement location.
This Tax won’t apply to foreigners for sure
I would have picked the Philippines if crime and safety is not an issue there.
Is it still 3 years and do you have any issues getting a 6 month extension? This question just came up in a WhatsApp group chat (gc) im in. When I looked it up I saw 24 months (or 2 yrs) being the max.
As for the 6 month question - someone else commented in the gc, that he's not been able to get a 6-month but rather at most a 2-month. He said he always asks but they never give...
I have to say the electronic form is great. I used it recently when I came on a 30-day visa exemption - got another 29 days no problem, just paid the fee. When I left the country the immigration officer asked if i had the document of said extended exemption - not a min or 2 passed while I was looking for it in my phone till he said, nm I found it ❤
Last two times I came to TH, I get questioned by immigration asking why im there so long...last time was after I had been away for about 2 months...some places are just built differently
@@thekoshertourist
Hello from Mike,
I’m not sure what the current policy is on 6 month extensions. I just heard about the 6 month issue. I’m sure we will be hearing more later. Also I did look at the new immigration website for electronic extensions. Sounds real nice. Good luck!
@@Michael-xp9ln it seems its hit and miss on the 6-month extension - but either way can still stay here much longer without leaving and easier to extend then other countries
Wow, I was seriously considering retiring in Thailand in 2028. However, if this new tax were implemented, my second choice - the Philippines, would become my new retirement destination.
Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam?
Before changing your plans I would wait, and also get proper guidance from a tax specialist to take into account your individual circumstances.
To give you an idea, I have a friend and ex colleague who has worked in investment banking for about 20 years and is very senior. Given my circumstances, he said that for about £2000 it would be possible to offshore, slash the amount of income tax due, as long as other criteria were met, such as being outside the UK, living in another country, and paying myself through the offshore company and taking dividends and so on.
I suspect that it will not take very long before some accountants and tax lawyers in Thailand will understand what is needed to ensure people don't ever pay tax twice, and only pay what is rightly due.
Same here! Was going to do the exact same thing around the same time. Malaysia or Philippines are my plan B, Indonesia Plan C, japan plan D. I will eventually live my last days in Japan which is home!
By 2028 complete totalitarianism you won't be going anyway without paying any taxes. Digital ID and CBDC will ensure that!!
@@vktravellog1242 have recently been researching Langkawi (Malaysia), starting to become more popular, and similar size to Phuket.
This ends Thailand as a place to retire, and digital nomads will leave. Good luck with that.
This will be a mass migration for Plan B for sure....
Agree
Yep, it was already iffy but now it's a NO
One fake news video was enough to put you off? This is utterly false clickbait.
It's still a proposal
along with the 90 days reporting to immigration this new tax law will just be another headache for retirees.
with the tendency of Thailand to flip flop on their decisions I'm going to spend less than 180 days in Thailand to avoid any risk of taxation. I was living here permanently- so I am now going to be spending less than half of what I would in a year in Thailand.
I'm from the US and even with a tax treaty- Thailand does not have the deductions and special taxation categories that the US has. My Taxes would increase hugely to stay. This is not a good plan to attract wealth into Thailand
if they continue with this their economy probably could be effected around half of what covid did but not recover as people might choose other affordable countries with favorable tax rules and warm climate i hope Thailand can find a win win for them and us
After nearly 2 years of dreaming of moving to Thailand (thanks to you Chris!) I'm just grateful for their announcement coming out just after I had applied for the Thai Elite visa and before I had paid.... I am certain that Thai Elite has seen a rapid decline in the number of people proceeding with their new membership especially after raising their prices. Not sure that I want to pay a chunk for a visa that's only good for less than half a year
It is better that you go to the Philippines my friend no stress with visa at all
No foreigner will ever pay tax on their overseas income. They can make any laws they want, they just can't enforce them.
Same. I was going to apply for the Thai Elite Visa (which I obviously halted) and I am now seriously considering moving to Philippines
Thailand hates you and your money...They do anything to make sure you have no rights and feel cheated on every occassion.
This entire video is false. There is no law, simply a proposal. I can't count how many proposals died days after being written... I've been here 20 years.
Thailand Elite is the best money I've ever spent and continues to be so.
I have lived here for 3 years and if they tax my retirement income then I will be leaving.
Thailand has an unfriendly immigration policy already. Having to sit in immigration every three months is no way to enjoy your golden years. Also dealing with tax treaties is horrible because they can still denied claims, so it's never a clean deal. Best way to deal with these issues is to set up a multiple country system where you don't spend 180 days in a country per year. Keep in mind that is not calendar year also, its any 365 day period. As a US citizen I am always paying Uncle Sam but don't want to be on the hook with another country so its 140 days in Colombia, 140 in Panama and 85 on the beach in Brazil. It's more expensive even though we have homes in each but it is nice to break it up because you grow mental cobwebs from staying in one place too long.
If you have homes in four countries you shouldn't be crying about a bit of taxes. Jezus man....
@@selvmortsydd he didn't work hard all is life so that a big chunk of his savings is taken away.
Is it expensive to maintain (taxes) a house in Thailand and Brazil?
@@robverro566 Stop crying, we all pay taxes ..
@@selvmortsydd seems kinda unfair he's taxed twice..once from America then second from another country on the same income. Then a third time when making purchases. Thrice taxation, even for a millionaire seems wrong.
i'm thai and i have poor knowledge about TAX
just wanna say goodluck to you all and don't have to go through this TAX problem long
and enjoy your stay in thailand
GL 😘
The best case for an American (eg digital nomad or high income 401k/pensions) is not to stay anywhere longer than 180 days and stay out of the USA for 330 days. You can exempt $120k from your US income tax and then move around to avoid becoming anyone else’s tax resident. It’s like a free $10-15k depending on your filing status (single, married, etc).
Or have two bank accounts, one for savings and one for salary earned in current year. Use the savings bank for money for the current year while putting earnings into the other bank account, then after a year passes transfer that earned money to the savings, rinse and repeat.
@@blue-gx5tmwasn't this exactly what the new law is trying to target?
@@blue-gx5tm That won't work next year. Thats the loophole the new law is trying to close. If you are a tax resident it doesn't matter what year it was earned in the future. This video didn't mention enough about the tax treaties apply though to offset what you may pay.
That's too much of a headache. I'll take my money to either Philippines or cambodia.
The downside is you have to move every 6 months at a minimum.
Great show Chris! Yes I heard about this. It definitely changes everything. I'm getting ready to retire and this makes everything alot harder. As alway's stay cool,kind and generous!
I agree with all the points you made about the new tax law . I think you should gather as much comments as you can from your subscribers about the downside of the law and reflect it to the Thai government before they made the stupid mistake which would hurt the country’s economy!
TH-cam comments will make a difference 😅. Okay man..
I am completely new to your channel and didn't know until the end of the video that you are actually having a new studio! The very first thing that I thought was that your audio just sounds phenomenal! It's so unlike to so many channels nowadays. People totally underestimate good audio when recording yet this is the no. 1 that either keeps me on a channel or, even when the topic might be really interesting, keeps me off their yard.
Good job!
Also your reporting is done great. Seems the Thai government is putting off a lot of investors and retirees. That's so unnecessary. They really should think it over.
Wow, this video is absolutely incredible! I'm so glad I stumbled upon your channel. I subscribed to your other channel first, and I'm definitely going to be binge-watching all of your Thailand content. Thank you for sharing your insights and experiences with us.
Thanks for the attempt at clarification. As for me, I've shelved my plans to move to Thailand until it's all sorted out and a legal professional can advise me on the facts of what my obligations would be. This situation reminds me of the old saying, "If it sounds too good to be true ..."
Nice summary, good job.
As per usual, this proposal has been dreamt up under the usual knee jerk guise of a 'crackdown'.
Those of us who have lived here for any length of time know that the one common thread that is completely absent from the Thai psyche is ability for 'forethought'.
It impacts every single decision they they make day to day. The complete absence to 'think thing's through', or 'consider the consequences' of a given action.
Right back around to TiT. If nothing else, at least that is consistent here!
Great video. I like this format.
Im 44 year old American and ’ve been living in Bangkok the past year, I fall into your 3rd example of people, living off investments. been on edu visa. But lately just tourist visa. I got stopped at immigration last entry so now I was planning my 2024.
And I come conclusion will be splitting my time between 6 months in Thailand and other countries Japan, Malaysia, Spain because I don’t have a visa and I’m not paying taxes.
You are one of the best when it comes to important informations about Thailand, great presentation and nice studio - awesome work Chris P. Thanks !👍🙏 i`m not retired but love Thailand, i`m interested in everything about life in this country, i have a few friends they live in TH
One of the most obvious questions that i have and probably many other expats living in Thailand regarding these new tax laws is ! How on earth is the system going to regulated that fairness and professionalism is applied to all expats that reside in the kingdom when assessing their , individual tax liabilities .
Most peoples financial situations are not they same .Most people will have tax liabilities that will be calculated on their own individual merits based on their different forms of income. Where are all of these qualified international English speaking tax law specialist going to come from , not only to police these new laws . but ! also to resolve disputes that individual tax payers living in the Kingdom will have in a professional, knowledgeable manner insuring all parties are happy with the end result ! regarding how much tax they should pay , also understanding reciprocal foreign tax laws ect.
This is not the Thailand i have ever experienced so far to date !
Thai bureaucracy in itself for most people is a daunting experience to say the least .The language barrier ,the lack of knowledge , also in some cases a lack of patients to clearly explain instructions !
So where are all of these great qualified professional minds going to come from to assess the paper work for this latest change in the tax laws !
I'm a U.S. expat of means now living in Costa Rica. I had planned on staying in Thailand for at least 3 years. I am now reconsidering that decision! Since, there are so many other tax friendly countries in Asia. It's bad enough, to have to pay U.S. Federal Taxes, and not live in the U.S.!
Great informative video Chris. Like the studio type presentation. Clear sound, must be an expensive microphone 🎤 😂
Thanks for the info, Chris! I'm probably going to have to keep an eye on this now. Hope they reconsider this law. Like you said, the amount to potentially lose and drive expats away could be disastrous. Now , im going try to find your new channel 😂
Portugal recently enacted new income tax requirements for expats starting 2024 too. This is the problem with becoming too wedded to any one foreign country, they can start changing the rules on you at a drop of a hat and then you’re stuck owning expensive property that you can’t even use. Good info, please keep us informed of any new developments.
Good
Thank you so much for making this video and bringing the many potential issues to light. This has been on my mind and on the minds of other foreigners who call Thailand home. I’ve lived here long enough that I’ve seen new laws passed or older laws suddenly strictly enforced that have made it more difficult or cumbersome for the average foreigner to live here year-round. Sometimes the government quietly backtracks once they’ve noticed the negative impact a change has made. Sometimes they don’t. I’m currently considering the possibility that it might be best if I stay in Thailand less than 180 days a year which would drastically change my life. Please keep reporting on this as new information and clarity hopefully eventually becomes available.
The 180 days may change also. If you look at the extra criteria they use in Australia and UK it may be impossible to avoid tax if you live in Thailand for extended periods even if shorter than 180 days.
@@johndowding9303Looks like doors are closing each year. I don't blame Thailand for making foreigners pay tax for staying there. The foreigners can afford it.
@@WISERandHAPPIERYes but they can also afford to go somewhere else and take their spending with them.
@@jw841 I am not sure the government want low income elderly in Thailand. Some things are worth paying for. Thailand is the most amazing place for entertainment, worth paying the taxes.
@@WISERandHAPPIERToo funny. I guess you enjoy licking Thai boots while begging for annual visas and doing 90 days report like a criminal? If I am going to require filing a tax return, I will do it in a country where I could at least have some right as a TAX RESIDENT. I have plenty of money to stay in Thailand, but I also have some pride left.
Thanks you for this update, much needed and wasn't aware of it🙏 much love!
If they tax savings it's game over for thailand, instead of enjoy the tens of thousands $ i spend every year.
Double taxing is insane😂
Getting greedy?
To much complexity!
And yes, no problem to be less than 180 days, gona leave the apartment while I'm out and still be net positive.
Your videos are good!! Very likeable character with up to date information. Slick production too…
I would go for the Philippines. I lived there for eleven years. They have this great law for foreigners that if you buy a condo for at least $60,000 you automatically get a permanent resident visa. Which entitles you to some good things. Not having to renew your visa every few months. You can open up a business. No waiting in long lines at the airport because they have a special window at immigration for you. I got this. I bought a condo and then I got this visa. It’s called the quota visa. ICR-card. You don’t need to get married to a Filipina. To get a permanent resident visa. It’s great. Plus in the Philippines mostly everyone speaks fluent English. Everything is in English. Women are beautiful. That mix of Spanish and Asian. Think about it. Thailand just has way too many laws against foreigners. It’s crazy. Why I don’t live there. Too difficult.
Shhhh, don't tell to many people. Lol. Ive been debating between Thailand and the Philippines. I'm a Disabled veteran i get a lot more benefits in the Philippines and with this Thailand tax would definitely be a deal breaker... I'm looking into Angeles/ Clark area, especially with the hight speed rail being built from Manila. Any thoughts on Angeles City?
But Filipino food is not good.
Yeah but food is absolute shit.. No way I would live somewhere just because it is easier and let my health suffer. Fk that
@@hobo1704 yep.
@@oSnapMillerTime
Have to agree with you. I hardly ate Filipino food the entire time I was there. So I just ate at all the other different restaurants. There are so many there. Different types. Lots of western style ones too.
As always here the rich will find "accommodation", the middle bracket will find an "agent", and the rest of us will fill in the paperwork. Oh, good presentation Chris I enjoyed it
Great summary
When I was looking for a location to retire to I considered Thailand but the changing visa situation and since I also didn't speak Thai I choose the Philippines. Next month will be 8 years in the Philippines and I'm very happy with the decision. Everyone is free to try Thailand or the Philippines and see which one they like, shoot there is also Cambodia and Vietnam to also consider.
I learnt a lot from this video and even more in the comments.
Great work, as always 👏 👍
I had considered Thailand as my retirement Destination. Sad to say, I will stop all thoughts. I cant mess about with governmental stupidity, its bad enough in my own Country. I had a fairly large designated money equivalent that I had salted away with Thailand as the desired spending destination. I am a guy that hears bad and ridiculous news comic g out of a country, and that totally kiss it for me. I was planning to go to Thailand Ina few months, I wont bother, go elsewhere, I hope the Thai government regret this money grab, but it wont affect me, not giving them the chance .
Already pay 50% tax State/Fed in America, so yeah Mexico, Philippines seems a change of destination. I’ll miss you Thailand.
Thanks Chris🙏🏻
seee ya bud. lol, nobody has or will pay any of this, but the weak hands always fold first.
Thanks Uncle Chris! A precise update with some real world scenarios to help us understand what it all means. All under 10 minutes. ขอบคุณมากนะครับ ❤
It's all fake news.
Excellent video. Very articulate , clear and informative.
Well said Chris! As a retired finance professional I can tell you expats thinking because their country has a tax treaty w / Thailand gets them off the hook is incorrect. It will still require filing taxes in both countries and paying the difference between the spread you paid in your home country! You are exactly correct about your predictions: next year I will be sure to spend 6 months in Bali, Vietnam, and even the Mediterranean to be sure I don’t fall into “Tax residency” status. Many of my TH-cam followers tell me the same. Thailand will shoot themselves in the foot of they are not careful. All that cash will be spent elsewhere and the condo sales and rental market will definitely suffer! Thinking Thailand will adjust this before implementing in 2024 🙏
If you are not required to file in the US because there is no taxation of disability retirement benefits, how will Thailand even know that your only income is not taxable ?
Also, if your SS benefits are not over the taxable threshold, you have no real reason to file and as I understand it are not required to even file unless there is additional taxable income.
I'm not a professional so I am asking and appreciate any insight. TIA and thanks Chris. Lots of anxious retirees roaming about :)
Yep! Its better to bounce around Vietnam, Malaysia and then Thailand. If you are not already on a retirement visa. But think I will reconsider my plans to retire in Thailand if this new tax law is implemented. Its just too much hassle and extra paperwork every year.
Me too. From 330 nights in Thailand to 180.
Imagine filing tax tax return even if you don't owe... would be a Nightmare.
Thai can't get 90 day report right. No way will they be competent on Taxes.
That’s incorrect. I lived half of my life outside of Germany. If your country have an agreement, you tax where you life under the local IRIS tax regulations. For me, I need to tax, if I choose to move to Thailand, in Thailand.
@@jw841specialy if you live from your life savings who are in a bank overseas and you don't need to fill in any taxpapers there because you are not a resident anymore plus you are taxed automaticly if you get interests paid
........do they want me to provide taxpapers if i have none because of the formentioned reasons
it will be a easy and very swift decision on my part if they really try that GRAB
hey Chris, save us the hunt and put the new channel in the description. We love what you do
I think it is a violation of youtube community standards to do so.
Just click the link at the end of the video, on the top left.
Otherwise it’s called RW4U
Thankyou for this video Chris. I'm due to move for employment in BKK, definitely probed me to check how that's going to effect me in my situation.
I’m new to your channel. Great job on your videos. You’re very articulate and informative and easy to understand. I can see you pay great attention to details. Your new studio looks great too. On the topic, my pension is only $1,400 US dollars a month. Not enough money to relocate there I’m afraid. It looks to be amazing to live there. Unless I can increase my income, I guess I’m stuck in Crazyland, USA. Looking forward to watch all your videos. Thanks for the great quality videos. I enjoy and appreciate it a lot.
A simple solution could be NOT to transfer any money but to use a foreign credit card. Thus there is no money brought in from a foreign to a Thai bank. You simply take it out from your foreign bank directly in cash, same as tourists usually do. Besides, double taxing would be a crime, too, and probably end in confiscations of Thai assets abroad.
People will understand why Bitcoin is so important soon, maybe.🤔
How you want tho buy property, with your CC? I find that’s a high risk
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 how do you buy food and a house with shit coins?
A requirement of becoming a resident is both opening a bank account and proving you have cash in it or a flow of income into it lol
In the UK, this is considered the same as remitting the money into the country. Thus making it taxable. I know it requires great effort from the tax authority side to track someone's purchases, but if they are targeting someone, they will have the paper trail to prove it.
Thanks for doing this video, because you are quite correct, it DOES affect my decision about whether to retire to Thailand or elsewhere. I am delighted to spend my pension in Thailand, or my savings, but there is no way I am paying 35% tax on those already taxed monies, and NO, I do not want to keep doing border runs. I WILL just cut Thailand out of my plans altogether. A short term partial solution may be to use a Ferang credit card in Thailand, and repay it using a Ferang bank account in a Ferang country.... a bit of a pain in the 'Ask' though, and not without its own costs. I haven't got any stats, but my intuition tells me this will cost Thailand far more than it gains if they really do it as it is proposed. How incredible!
Chris there is a lot of expat Chanels focusing on the new Tax law . Unfortunately its just speculations and click bait's for the expat community , excellent video and keep up your fantastic energy to try to make some sense of the stuff that the new government try to do without thinking about the consequences with implementation of various policys , most of them won't work , feel sorry for the Thai people , and it won't looking good for the future. Cheers from an expat that have invested in Thailand for 9 consecutive years... ❤
Chris, Thank You so much for Your Videos.
Their Great, very Informative !!
Thank you Chris, although you're a bit late jumping on the bandwagon ;) I plan to retire in Thailand next year and I will make sure that I am not staying there more than 180 days per calendar year (please note the day you arrive and the day you leave each count as 1 day). I will do this for a couple of years until the smoke has cleared and the application of the law has become foreseable. There is no problem buying condos, houses and cars in Thailand if you are not a tax resident. And if you do become a tax resident, you have to make sure to bring in the bare minimum to Thailand. Also, what does it mean, to bring money into Thailand? Technically, if I pay my restaurant or hotel bill with my Wise card, I have not brought any money into Thailand...
Like you say, more questions than answers and at the end we will probably see that this new law will blow up in their faces like the 300 THB "tourist tax" they wanted to levy on plane tickets.
Many wealthy people I know in Thailand are considering moving to Dubai if that law is implemented. Thailand will never see the colour of these THB-bills they hope to collect. They should move to better tax the thai businesses but they won't do that because it might cost them some votes in the next election.
Thnx Chris, WELL DONE as usual! I'll just follow the KISS rule for Thailand: Keep It Simple Stupid! Less than 180 days/year. No Thai bank accounts. Rent only. Use foreign ATM cards for cash withdrawals. Arrive with $10K usd cash as a buffer. And like you said, spend 180 days/year outside of Thailand in places like Laos, Cambodia, VN, etc. Mix it up! 👍😎🍻...
Great work, I like your new style of vids. Very informative
wow so many questions and it's hard to have a plan for all . i can see a big problem here . great video and information thanks for posting
As an expat living in Thailand who relies on a pension and investments from Canada for my living expenses this sounds to me like some government beaurocrat or politician spoke before thinking.
Your pension is exempt, the tax treaty clearly outlines that and that is not abolished due to some new law they come up with. Unless that treaty is re ratified, it stands. As for investments, you are probably already paying tax in thailand and claiming the treaty credits in Canada to reduce that tax burden.
@@JayandSarahwhat About Australia ?
@@Chuck_Dalton it's the standard dual taxation agreement that most nations use.
It explicitly states that "pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State."
That will stand. Thailand is not at liberty to ignore the standard DTT agreements it has signed with all these nations.
Thailand needs tax agreements with other countries far more than the reverse.
@@Chuck_Dalton other foreign income was already subject to taxation based on treaties, it always has been... it is just that they had this "year in which it was earned" provision that basically allowed honest people to just use money from prior years income, and for dishonest people to just avoid paying taxes.
Like people living as residents and working online with employers from foreign countries. That income is and always has been taxable based on treaties if you were using that income to support yourself in Thailand during the course of the year.
It wouldn't likely increase their tax burden, but would shift the tax collection from 100% their other country, to splitting that income with Thailand based on treaties, or no treaties.
It's really just bringing Thailand in line with most other countries rather than having this loophole being exploited by probably tons of people - and costing Thailand lots of money in uncollected revenue they otherwise should be earning.
Chris, your opening statement is absolutely right. The purpose of the legislation is to target wealthy Thai nationals and Thai residents with significant overseas income.
Yes many are about & please leave us ‘normal ‘ retirees who worked bloody hard to in the uk & elsewhere to try & enjoy our monies & life from company pension’s 😊😢
Thank you for sharing this major news. I was planning in moving to Thailand. Thank God I listened to you video.
Interesting as always and very helpful. Off topic: Have you done a video on retiring on dialysis in Thailand?
This just killed my plans to retire to Thailand. Going to have to look for somewhere else now. I was planning on living off of long term capital gains from stock investments. In the US, if you make less than $40k/year in long term capital gains, you pay 0% in taxes. We also have a standard deduction which reduces our taxable income by a certain amount. Normally in Thailand you wouldn't get taxed on the long term capital gains because you could bring it in during a different tax year. Also, because the US and Thailand have a tax treaty, even if you did get taxed on it (like this new rule would require), you'd normally be able to offset it based on how much taxes you paid in the US. But, because you paid no taxes on it in the US (due to long term cap gains tax rate and the standard deduction), you'd be paying the full Thailand tax on a long term investment that was started waaaay before becoming a thailand tax resident. This is pretty much a show stopper for me. So, for right now, I'll just sit and wait to see whether this proposal actually gets passed into law or not.
Just use transfer wise. No Thai Bank account needed
@@scott1572 how do you get the money from your wise account when u stay in thailand ?
This ranks up there with their proposal to legalise methamphetamines...IE: it'll never see the light of day again..
@@Pfurz1 FYI this is what I did: I live in Thailand but have a UK address and used this as my WISE address. I always use WISE to transfer money from UK to my Thai Bank Account but I have now ordered a WISE debit card that has already been sent to my UK address and is now on its way to Thailand. You have an on-line account with WISE and pay money into that. I transfer money from my Santander account into my WISE account. You then use your WISE debit card to withdraw money from a Thai ATM and this is deducted from your WISE Account. This means no money ever comes into your Thai Bank account. Obviously, you will have to pay ATM fees and WISE fees. But these are considerably less than the proposed Thai Tax amounts. I thinks Aeon or Krungsri Bank ATMs will allow you to withdraw up to a maximum of 20,000.00 THB per day and will only charge 150.00 THB per transaction.
@@hewhoknowsknows thank you for the information
Thanks Chris,. A lot of people hanging out for clarification on this one. The Thai expat economy is going to take a serious hit even due to loss of confidence even if it doesn't eventuate.
Thank you Chris! Always informative and clear.
I can see this having a significant impact on many of those foreign corporations considering setting up business in Thailand. Most have specialized and executive staff from their home countries, who are sent to work at a local office, usually for 1-3 years, then return home. Their personal accounts would still be back in their homeland, and they use either credit cards or wire transfers to cover expenses in their temporary work country. If that's considered 'external income', and even if the business accounts transferring money from their home countries into Thailand accounts, might fall under those rather vague guidelines, then it could have an impact on foreign investments as well.
I honestly cannot believe the needless panic this is causing amongst everyone!
It 💯 will not affect pensions or money you transfer from overseas into a Thai bank account.
Agreed. And knowing the Thai banks here. They will never report to the government their clients activities.
Even if it never happens, just the threat is going to cause a significant reduction to people working and retiring here. Good job Thai government.
@@ubiquitousdiabolus you are correct.
Which is in a way quite good. As we don't want everyone to know that Thailand is the best country in the world to reside. It needs to stay a secret.
We had been locked up in thailand for 2 years for Covid with no tourist whatsoever, it was the best time ever.
@@BenoitThailandThailand has many people employed in the tourism section and many lost everything during covid.
I even know people in Thailand who committed suicide after losing everything.
Celebrating the death of tourism in Thailand is moronic.
I transfer easily 100,000thb every month to my Thai bank acct. with this law, 30,000 of that would now have to go straight to taxes. That would be a show stopper and I’d have to move somewhere else
tell me how they're going to bill you the 30,000 per month please. or if you transfer it to your gf or wife or Thai friend's accounts, please tell me how they will go about tracking and billing them? Hint: they won't and this means nothing to you.
@@luxuryseaviewvillas6744 They will track the transfer through the blockchain. CBDCs are coming. There is absolutely no doubt about that.
@@luxuryseaviewvillas6744 very simple.... it's just a data match to immigration, which, always requires you to nominate your address.
Even easier if you own property!
I do the monthly transfer for two reasons. One for living expenses and two for reporting income to maintain retirement visa. So I need to report x many of transfers anyway to renew visa. That’s one way they’ll track it. Other ways? I don’t know but if you think it’s not possible for the government to track, I think you’re being naive.
It's a graduated tax system. The first Bt150k is free, next Bt150k at 5%, next Bt500k at 10%, then Bt1M at 15%. Your total on Bt1.2M remittance is Bt117.5k or 9.7%.
Another incredibly well done video, from start to finish!
Great video. As usual, governments always disappoint.
I reached out to you on our last trip trying to find a place to get. You rejected the opportunity to talk to my wife and I, but we did find a place in Bangkok through other sources, and we are happy. (Even if we aren't there full time). This tax thing has been a stressor. Hoping it works out.
Thank you for your videos. They are appreciated.
Wow, this is terrible news for those who were planning to retire full time in Thailand and also those already there...
I hope they back off or find a way to provide workarounds for expats...
Agree that the income flowing in now will slow down to a trickle and it will adversely affect many areas of the economy...
The overall losses will far outweigh any new inflows of tax revenue...
This makes no sense, even to a dummy like me...
👍😎👍
I'm already here. This is a proposal and if you've been here long enough you know that proposals very often go nowhere. There are lots of possibilities here:
1. This just disappears. Nothing happens
2. They make some substantial changes and we wait to see what they are
3. It goes forward just as feared and that will be be a big hit for everyone
4. It dies because they can't effectively implement it - too complicated
5. It effects some people and not others, maybe only Thais - wait and see
6. I owe the different between my US taxes and the Thai taxes - annoying but probably a small difference
7. Pensions and savings transferred to Thailand are not taxed
8. I have a pensioner LTR - maybe it won't apply to me or some visa categories?
. . . . I'm sure others can think of other scenarios good and bad
If you are not here yet then this might scare you. I'm here already and I'm not losing sleep over this . . . yet.
More chance of an asteroid colliding with earth than this policy happening
Well I'm scratching Thailand off my travel list lol. I was thinking about Thailand being a permanent place of residence until that piece of news, thanks for the heads up.
To be honest I have never been interested in Thailand and this further solidifies my opinion. Thanks bud!
If you earn money in thailand it should be taxed. If you earned it somewhere else it should be yours 100%. This is dumb.
Thanks for the info Chris, I'm one of the latter cases. I'm currently 54yo, planning to retire early (3 years from now) and live out my days in Thailand (Chiang Mai area). The first few years of my retirement will be funded by the proceeds from selling my house (about $100,000 after U.S. taxes) and just over $1000/mo from my pension (frozen seven years ago). I'm bringing my mother with me (she is VERY excited), she gets $1900/mo from Social Security. My plan is to buy a house with the $100K and not have to budget rent. I can pull my 401K out at 59.5 years old, that will double my income, then at 62 start withdrawing my Social Security. So, I believe I'm OK on money, the way the system is currently. I saw the comment below stating that this is a proposal atm, and I know the Thai govt' is really trying to help the Thai population. I'm hopeful they will take in the point of people having the choice of where to retire/vacation and not go with this tax law change as it would severely reduce the influx of cash they currently enjoy. A 35% tax would, of course, force me to find another country in which to retire.
Aside from that, if I have your ear (eye) for a moment, I'd like to request a video topic. I plan to buy/build a traditional Thai home (stilt house) for my mom, and every video I can find on the matter only states "you can buy a leasehold for 30 years with the possibility to extend it for another 30 at the end". That is what I want, but I can't find any information beyond that statement. I've looked at property companies, they only list land "for sale", I'm not Thai and cannot buy. So, my question is how do I find a leasehold/plot of land and what is the usual price range per rai in town and out of town? Or, do I have to just drive around looking for possibles and asking "who owns this lot" and negotiate in person (I'm not good at bartering). So, a video about the actual process of finding and leasing a plot of land to build a home on would be greatly appreciated. If anyone reading this has a link to that information, again greatly appreciated.
Thank you so much for the work you and the crew do for us out here in the world Chris! Thailand should make you their official ambassador.
Official ambassador???? He is spreading fake news for the clicks and you champion his efforts......
You'd be better off just renting an old Thai wooden house and renovating it a bit. But be aware that low-priced rentals will be some distance outside of downtown Chiang Mai. You could get something less than $400/month.
Great & informative video Chris, thanks 😊
Thanks for this, useful info.
Hm, that’s bad news. My wife (Thai) and I considering to retire early. We both life in Germany. We have shortlisted Italy and Thailand. With the new tax law we will go to the South of Italy with 7% tax on passive income and very reasonable living costs. Also Portugal with the extension of the NHB tax and retire option is very attractive.
Dont go to Thailand, its been going down hill for years, i think they dont want anymore foreign money coming in, thats the only reason they would be making all of these bad choices
the Portuguese government has decided to end its 10-year tax relief scheme for new residents starting from 2024. Greece is a better option.
@@kayrush i just saw in article, they will not. Need to google. Sinatra is on our list, but I think we will denke up for now in Salento and when we get older maybe Thailand
Suddenly, the Philippines looks a lot more inviting. Considering they speak English in PI, it is probably where I relocate when my Visa expires. Thailand really shows why its a second world country sometimes.
This is fake news and you have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.
Yup! I've found the new channel. Thank you so much for the info.
welcome back Chris the time off did you good and now nice to enjoy your return
MUCH, more sensible vid than Ben from Integrity Global. A first class, simple and concise video with zero speculation and actual meat on it. Well done Sir!
Personally, I am one of those that has written off TH as a retirement place. I was going to bring in excess of 2M THB per year into the country, plus buy a condo plus spend money there. But I will not do any such thing.
TH loses. Period.
I have rented a place (hundreds of such places exist in TH) that cater to expat rentals, and all will fail Money does not wait for Gov. stupidity, it moves first.
Capital is mobile. As a country that WANTS to become like Singapore or HK, or Dubai - this is an asinine move. Instead of curtailing tax evasion by citizens, and Gov. overspending, it’s just a plain ole' money grab. Do Thai officials think we are stupid?
So you've fallen for this clickbait hook line and sinker have you? This is the most fake news I've seen all year. There is no new law, only a proposal that will never get enacted.
@@michael-masi-2021 Yeah, I admit I might have - However, this has been confirmed by one of the ministers (albeit it only a bureaucrat saying this).
What makes you say its all clickbait?
Both Ben at Integrity Global and my own lawyer (Siam Legal) have suggested it may happen
@@SimplerTrades lets break it down. Thaksin just returned to Thailand and has MUCH influence. Thaksin has millions of dollars overseas.
Do you think Thaksin will allow this to happen?
They once proposed legalising Methamphetamines here also. Don't believe anything until it's been made law.
@@michael-masi-2021 Thanks, I take things at face value, and that is a good perspective.
Thailand has a demographic and hence, an impending economic problem coming. SOme bureaucrats may recognize this. ANd they are often known (all over the world) to make dumb decisions.
Perhaps, here they won't.
@@SimplerTrades I've been here 20 years. Thailand has constantly been "on the verge" of some financial crisis or another since Thaksin left. The fact he is back is joyous news to me... Maybe I'll see 42:1 on the USD again... Thaksin is the consummate businessman... He doesn't need taxes... Thailand is an export nation with lots to export.
Am based in Thailand full time now. If they enforce this law I will spend the majority of my time in Dubai instead.
Wow, you’d live in that shithole by choice?
Saw you at the buffalo races. Looking forward to your video!
On top of the cost of airline tickets being three times what they cost from my first visit in 2013 this would make Thailand a very distant happy memory , adios amigo,.. I’ve always wanted to try Mexico ,Portugal,Vietnam …. And the list of new adventure goes on and on
Thailand is nice, but I wouldn't put any of my money there. If they wanted to tax me on my foreign income I'd GTFO ASAP
So my retirement plan 2026 for thailand is currently on hold because of this tax idea, and if its become reality, there are plenty of other countrys to retire/spend your wealth.
GREAT VIDEO ! EVERYTHING EXTREMELY WELL SAID !
Info for Australians below... but first.. Thanks for the vlog Chris, your content is always top shelf and much appreciated. :)
To provide context, we are at the very start of our journey, considering Thailand to be a worthy retirement idea, so to hear the news about the closure of the tax loophole has piqued my interest.
After some research, I understand the situation may not be as dramatic as first read, especially if you live in one of the 61 countries that have a double taxation agreement with Thailand.
Now I could be mistaken, but what I understand for my fellow Aussies is the following (full disclaimer, this is only MY interpretation of the tax payable, and it's best to come to your own conclusions):
Our superannuation savings are taxed at 15% all the way through to retirement (this includes employer contributions) - Unless I am wrong, then I would expect a tax credit of 15% to be applied to the funds we transfer to a Thai bank. For example, a perfectly reasonable $80k per annum (around 1.9m baht pa) would be taxed at Thailand's marginal tax rate, similar to how Aussie tax is calculated. The tax payable would be 358,062 baht, or about $15,000 (or about 18.75% tax). If we consider the tax credit of 15%, then I calculate only 3.75% tax would be payable. This works out to be tax of around $3,000 on $80k.
However, we do get a little stung once we transfer our Super to Pension though, as no tax is paid in a Pension account, therefore the 18.75% tax might apply, but that should be only calculated on the income and capital gains we make AFTER the Super is transferred to Pension.
Other assets, such as our homes may be a little more complicated. The amount we have paid for our homes are paid with after tax dollars, therefore I believe the tax credit that should be applied is our average tax rates we were subject to whilst paying off our mortgage. I reckon in most cases, the tax credit applied should eradicate the tax the Thai Government would apply. If the overall amount of repayments (including bank interest) is higher than the price we sell our homes for, then I can't see how we would be taxed on this IF we drip feed our funds through on a yearly basis.
I expect our super and home capital should make up the majority the average Australian uses to fund their retirement in Thailand, therefore to conclude, the double tax agreement our Government has with Thailand shouldn't put too much of a dint in our income streams being funnelled over.
Not a harsh price to pay for living in such an awesome country.
My 2 cents.
Hey Chris, speaking of taxes and being legitimate. Do you have a work permit as a TH-camr? It’s my understanding TH-camrs living in Thailand (like yourself) need a work permit. I’m guessing you don’t, since you work for yourself. So what Visa do you have?
So the Thai government wants a piece of the pie. They can see that people are investing a lot of money in Thailand and they just want a cut of that investment money. There's no real benefit to this, except that government officials will make money. This will have a massive effect not only on the economy, but smaller businesses who possibly rely on foreign investment.
Mate great video's, really appreciate your time and effort.
I'm 55, Australian, retiring next year and have been looking at Thailand over the last 2 years as the destination.
Now, I definitely won't be moving in 2024, I'll be waiting to see what happens because I'm not paying double tax or wasting my retirement savings.
There's no way I'd buy any property in Thailand anyway and will be leaving my money in Australia and visiting for less than 180 until it's settled, or I'll look elsewhere.
IMO - a really stupid thing to do by the Thai's and makes no sense at all.
Worst case scenario it's going to ruin the Thailand experience.
Very grateful for your time..🙏🙏
Your graphic is LIT!! Well done!👍
For tax, how about you move all your money in the Thai bank and you can be exempted.
For Thais, we don’t understand why we need to pay tax and you don’t.
I was planning on taking early retirement to Thailand and buy an elite visa but since that changed that put up a big hurdle... now with this I think it has pretty much completely ruled out any move to Thailand for retirement.. certainly not gonna pay double tax on my pension/uk investments that I would have lived on after already payed up to 50% tax on it in UK...!! F that!!! will move somewhere else and just holiday there for a month or few instead!!
I think your UK pension is exempt due to treaty, that doesn't change. If you were a resident you would have to declare your investment income and probably pay some to both countries you are resident of, as outlined in the treaty. It's not a tax haven, never was.
@@JayandSarah never thought it was.. but dont wanna have to pay tax twice regardless..
Just bought 2x Thai Elite for me and my gf. Not going to use it now, as her country doesnt have dual tax agreement and it puts her in a very difficult position. So we are out for now.
No point in the Elite visa now. Its better to just bouce around every few months around SEAsia.
@@jw841 i agree, but my gf didnt have visa free access to Thailand, thats mainly why we did it. All to shit now, well for now it seems like
@@wouter1602 I understand your frustration. Unfortunately Thailand has a habit of changing goal posts with little warning. Thats why I never invested there. But I wish you well and hopefully there is a u-turn on this idiotic policy.
@@jw841 yeah lets 🙏 :)
Thanks for the videos! Very helpful! ✌️ I just saw the one where you took a visit to the hospital spa. Looks nice there! You should consider going plant based to have low cholesterol and low blood pressure ✌️ 🌱 ✨
Thank you so much for this very valuable information. I am planning to retire in January next year which is less than 2 months from today. I was going to move to Thailand cuz I like how beautiful the houses are built there. But now with this new tax law, I would rather move back to the Philippines.
So I'm the British female version of Sam. I've just returned to the UK after 3 months in Thailand testing the water as I'd not been since 2019 due to covid/restrictions etc.
I was planning on moving to Thailand in Jan 2024 on a retirement visa but now I'll wait until 'they' confirm what 'they' are implementing on Jan 1st.
If needs be I'll just stay for 180 days on another visa then go to another SE Asian country and take it from there.
Shame really as I just want to be settled in Thailand, however I've worked hard for my money, paid taxes so will be damned if i fall into being taxed again.
Lets see what materialises over the next few weeks and hope Thailand doesn't shoot itself in the foot......
What is the tax treaty between the UK and Thailand? I doubt it's a blanket "no tax" thing, it never is. So you are probably going to be paying tax in Thailand as a resident anyway, and getting a credit against your UK tax liability. Pensions usually exempt, but capital gains, dividends, interest income... could very well be taxed, make sure you know. Just trying to help.
@@JayandSarahYes I will and thank you.
I'm quite a bit off drawing a pension so savings would be my income and I'd be shocked if that would be taxed but who knows eh.....lol.
I'm returning to Thailand regardless so it just might be approx 6 months there and then onto somewhere else, anything is better than the UK right now lol.
After visiting Thailand for almost 20 years I'm not planning to give it up just yet.
@@boobooj6739 they wont' tax your savings. tax investment income yes, but moving money into an account to live off, no way.
@@JayandSarahI already pay 65% tax in the UK (25% company tax plus 40% dividend tax). Not sure I want to pay another 35% on top.
I'm sure they will make the tax forms online and simple to complete??? Dream on!
They can't even automate an address form TM30
Go on Thailand, bring this in, and watch us all leave.
Vietnam & The Philippines have the red carpet out.....hahaha
Thanks for the info, I was looking to go back soon but I don't want my pension taxed
Upps, I missed that !
But no savings to import, no monthly payments to here - but from Germany not a problem, if - ... no income at all.
But we will face that impact then also ... as Landlords = less investors, lower prices.
Thanks for pointing out some unclear options.
But as always here since 17 years - keep cool, and wait it out.
The tank nearby at intersection has also gone ...
Correct TIT, it's possible none of this comes to pass. They'll continue mulling this over for years to come, is my guess, and may implement some sort of tax on foreigners without a tax treaty, but it would have to be very low, less than 5%. This endeavor may lead to a positive outcome of realizing they must offer an easy path for foreigners married to Thai nationals to get residency. Essentially, how can they tax people that are regarded as tourists? On another thread, tourism will not come back to 2019 levels. Once this reality sets in the paradigm will shift.
Oh, man! They'll never manage to unpick the UK-Thai Tax Treaty without adversely affecting a lot of Thais living in the UK and sending money home from their businesses, jobs or whatever. But, if they do, I'll pay tax in Thailand and get it refunded from back home if I can. Getting taxed twice is not something I'd put up with, though.
Kind regards From Portugal! Stay safe
Chris, thanks for the proposed tax law change discussion . If Thailand implements double taxation scheme , I would need to find another country to continue my retirement. I know people who send to their Thai family money that they earn working outside Thailand, is that also going to be taxed?! Very concerning.
This is a completely self inflicted injury on the part of the Thai government, especially as we are at the very beginning of a worldwide recession. The potential fallout will be that the numbers of average to wealthy expatriates thinking of coming to Thailand to retire will dry up very fast, as they will find other places that are much more inviting like Maylaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, and even Japan to retire to. Thailand will also lose many of their existing expat retirees, and the ripple effect will be felt with thousands of small Thai businesses that cater to these expat areas going belly up, as well as the residential construction industry in these areas taking a massive hit, also Thailand has always prided itself on their holding large foreign currency reserves, however this too will dwindle as the expats leave enmasse, and tourism takes a hit as well. It's kind of like the old story about killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, the new Thai government should be careful what they wish for, as they might very well get just that!
Yes, perfectly said, what are they thinking!
Not to mention what has happened to the Thai Stock Exchange. Had just started recovering from the Covid "hangover" and then fell another 15%.
This is all my fault I am sorry guys. I am on the cusp of moving to Thailand permanently and this sort of thing always happens to me. So I am sorry. Bad luck like this always happens to me!!
And here's me taking all the blame, when it's your fault all along! 🙈
Go to the Philippines insted Mate
Don't do it again, go to your room and think about what you did, no ice cream for you tonight either 😉
You bastard, you killed Kenny!
Has the fillipines got lenient pot laws ?
Please keep us in the loop on what's going on with the tax issue, how will retirement funds, and lawsuit settlements be affected
Thanks for info Chris, will need new destination for retirement if this law goes thru. Any suggestions? New channel topics?