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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2019
- Siglent have entered the 1GHz oscilloscope market with the SDS5000X, is it a worthy competitor?
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#Oscilloscope #Review #Siglent
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I like watching tests of the higher end gear, not because i could justify the expense for hobbyist purposes, but it gives me an idea of what the current price/performance ratio looks like, what the market has to offer and what could be in the used market in some time. So thanks for showing these real in-depth reviews.
I really appreciate you taking the time to do a review of any type of testgear. And I would like to see a teardown.
It wouldn't be a review of a new product without Dave finding a couple of bugs just playing around.
Genghisnico13 the sorayn of hardware.
A good, thorough review. Thank you.
This is probably the most bit of kit that you will need to review though, as only a tiny percentage of your viewers will be in a position to specify anything more expensive than that.
I have found that SIGLENT products are physically of a perfectly acceptable quality for general use. Where they cut costs is in the overhead of the number of engineering hours they invest in software testing and refinement.
The bugs and UI quirks are irritating to be sure, but rarely are they complete show-stoppers. For the advanced hobbyist or SOHO business, SIGLENT provide a way to obtain test equipment at performance levels that would otherwise be unaffordable.
I myself have invested in their SDS2304X 300MHz 4-channel oscilloscope, and their SSA3032X spectrum analyser, and both have proven to be very useful and cost effective.
Do be aware though that they do charge a LOT for software licenses for features that you might have reasonably expected to get included in the main equipment price.
Loving the chrome knobs. Giving your $3k 2019 scope that 1977 Cobra 19 CB rig vibe, good buddy.
Smokey and the Bandit vibe
10-4
proudsnowtiger hey, the Chinese gotta rip off someone why not 70s American CB gear?
The whole thing looks a lot like 90's is calling to want it back really soon
I'm always impressed by how much you can suss out about a scope by putting it through a familiar series of tests. Even if you can't cover every last bit of functionality, it gives a great idea of the overall performance, fit & finish and usability.
I hope you keep at least a few high-end reviews in the mix. It's helpful to know what the cheaper stuff wants to be when it grows up.
I really just bum around for bit. I should have some form of formal checklist....
@@EEVblog Nah, stick to your style, it works a treat.
Hoping this is the start of a series that will cover the Rhode & Schwarz RTM3000 scopes soon! Dave is so great at evaluating the utility of the features, the configuration, and the shortcomings...
I'm a big fan of any equipment review. The fact that I can / can't afford them isn't an issue. This was an hour well-spent for me. Thanks.
I use Siglent scopes because I can afford them, they do the job. Enjoyed the review, I would like to see a teardown.
Exactly. I appreciate Siglent for making really serious gear affordable.
There is a history button but its always easier for the person looking over your shoulder to see
Was Getting my son into electronics. Had a plan so got him hooked on racing drones because I know we would break something real fast and would use that as the doorway to teach him and start getting him into arduino’s/bread boards. He’s homeschooled and was gonna treat it like a shop class which he would be starting this year if he was going to a public school. He needs to see things to learn. Hate how much anything decent costs but my wife grenaded my master plan anyway. Thanks for your reviews. You are my go to channel for everything electronic
And for what it’s worth I prefer the low end but best bang for your buck. Prob like most
Yes, most people will find the bang-per-buck reviews the most useful. I don't expect high end test gear to appeal to many.
*Redeemed * get him into sports or something with a social aspect. He’s already homeschooled which limits his social interaction, having him alone tinkering with electronics just further limits his social interaction. Last thing the world needs is another socially awkward engineer. This is coming from a engineer that wishes I was into sports at his age then programming my Commodore 64.
I wish your son the best of luck for the rest of his life..
..competing against 50 million Chinese engineers at $40 dollars a day.
Please, for his own sake, teach him Law or Medicine instead.
(FWIW, I've 40+ years in Engineering - mechanical, electrical and software.)
Thanks a lot Dave~ Looking forward for the teardown :D
56:37 I can see History button in the center of the front panel
Hi Dave, I love the higher-end stuff, really interesting to see how the industry advances and what‘s new in terms of features and usability. Personally, I even prefer these videos to the low-end gear. Cheers!
My note on high-end gear reviews, they can be very useful. Often there are cases that manufacturers provide very little testing / UI information, and lots of marketing stuff on high end instruments. Of course as a business with high-end expensive gear you'd just call the support, and manufacturer FAE will be at your lab, ready to answer your questions (or not!), but having hands on experience review, like you do here for SDS5000X could save somebody thousands of $ not buying wrong equipment. And with modern trend to add shiny touchscreeny features instead of more focus on performance/usability such reviews would be even more important. Also unlike low-end gear, which released often/obsoleted fast, high-end 4GHz scope could be very well doing it's job on R&D team desk for decade. You can see live example of that on forum, where many engineers specifically buy old high-end scopes, and it's not always the cost factor alone. :) So I'm in the camp that need more real-life content on high-end gear (not talking about crazy stuff like multi-GHz UXR for serial analysis, customers for that already know what that is). But more like Tek 5-6/KS 6 and S-series, etc.
You may be surprised if you know how many questions I get about 10K$ multimeter (3458A) from people on forum and email :D.
5:02 The loss of sharpness and details/edges has nothing to do with the VGA standard, it is because the resolution differs from your monitor's native resolution. It would have been just as bad with DVI or HDMI. VGA can produce perfect picture up to 1080p or more - eg. 2048x1536 @100Hz. Though, being analog, a very good quality VGA cable with proper, low loss, well shielded 75 ohm coaxes inside is needed for these high resolutions.
The problem with external display looks more like a monitor upscaling the picture than the analog output issue - I used 1920x1080 display with VGA cable and it had zero issues as long as cable was of reasonable length.
Came to say similar VGA worked great for many years, more likely not native res of the screen making it blurred. Of course would be nice if the scope output higher res on the VGA (user set?)
The upscaler could be at fault for poor sharpness, but the official VGA standard only specs resolutions up to 800x600. So while 1080p works absolutely fine, I don't think Siglent would support it in favor of compliance.
@@spacenomad5484 Now you're being ridiculous, VGA connector had been used in the real world for much higher resolutions even in the 90's, so it would mean that no vendor followed official specs.
Dave, I see the value in reviewing "high end bits of gear" like that because the Siglent 2000X series is basically the same scope, with the same UI, just at a lower price point that most people can afford, which is why your review of this higher end model is quite helpful indeed. And people who buy the lower end scopes aren't normally going to get a demo unit to try out first. Your reviews may be their main source of info prior to purchase! So keep it up!
Around 58:00. Dave, RTFM! :) when you press the buttons left or right, the sequences are "played" with the interval, that you can adjust. In a video the interval is at 1.00 us, that is why you didn't see the "playing" effect.
Many of these reviews is flawed with a lack of understanding of the scope and how it works.
So the scopes that aren't operated as the ones he uses the most gets a beating.
Manual reading should be mandatory before doing reviews.
Welcome to Siglent - This type of frustration is par for the course after you've used one in anger.
A note on the serial decoders: if you turn on serial decoding, the scope decrements the remaining free trail counts of EVERY optional decoder. So if turn on I2C decoding- which is on of the included ones -ALL of the optional ones decrement. Thus if you decode any of the included ones 30 times, you have no trials of the optional ones remaining! (Jan 2024)
I like review of more affordable products but given the price point of this unit I thought it was a good choice to review. I found this review very helpful
Dave.. you really know how to make the machines go! Impressive as always.
39:00 I think the return button is just farther down in the menu. That blue vertical line on the side looks like a scrollbar.
Thanks for sharing your review of this new beast!
It's great reviews like this as the price falls, making it affordable.
Will be interesting to see if any of Daves comments/bugs/recomendations are added and how fast updates are published, for c a high end scope updates should be quick.
That would make a good t-shirt for an O-Scope manufacturer...."Biggest Horizontal Knobs in the Business"
56:41 The history button is right there above the channel 3 dial
But there's a lot of value in these reviews that you do on the high end equipment. Please keep doing them!
I prefer focusing on the lower end products for exactly the reasons you describe. I enjoyed this review, but care a *lot* more about affordable gear. Thanks for all the content!
I can't see a single reason anyone would buy this over the much better alternatives.
As bandwidth goes up so does noise. That's the reason of R&S displaying higher noise. Whatever I measure with mine I see in the FFT all the local FM radio transmitters!
That screen zoom is choppy as hell. Why is the update rate so slow?
Love your vids! Always informative and thoughtful!
My only scope is a USB Analog Discovery. When I eventually buy a "real" scope, it will be $400-$1kUSD. I can't afford to consider anything more expensive than that. I'd only consider saving for a $1500 scope if I had a great reason and *really* stretched it. So naturally I'm more interested in reviews of low end scopes than anything else, because it helps me decide between those models.
However, I'm still interested in some reviews of more expensive scopes as well.
It's interesting and somewhat useful to see what advantages there are in the higher tier scopes, and how the competition between brands looks at that level. Presumably, the features of scopes in the ~$2K-$10K range will eventually become relevant in the low end, or already are relevant and are just implemented better. It provides a reference of what I could expect (or hope) to see from scopes that I can afford, and where these low end scopes are falling short.
On my budget I'm probably going to end up with a Chinese scope, but I like to have a perspective on how the various brands compare as the budget gets bigger, and why the premium brands might be worth consideration.
The really expensive stuff (say >$10K), is probably not much relevance anymore, but it might be fun to see those scopes reviewed very occasionally, just to see the state of the art for curiosity's sake.
For pure entertainment value, people like to see high-end stuff. But it can go too far - look at all the car shows and magazines that never talk about cars more than a few of their readers/viewers can afford. Most of their audience is giggling and not taking the subject seriously.
So please don't fall into that trap, just look at the super expensive stuff rarely. But IMO it's okay to spend some time on equipment that's slightly out of most people's reach, but close enough to be relevant (say
Siglent CEO: "Let's hire Mr. Dave to our Quality Assurance department!"
Guess why they send them to him .. they don't have to pay him and get free advertisement if they didn't f... up too badly.
So they can shut him up?
Going forward, Dave's strict new product evaluation may pass the "Dave logo" to new products.
But it seems that this 5000 is still impossible.
歌舞喜 it's more than that, it's polish, they don't have time and resources/expertise to do it; this scope is expensive for what it is
@@FooBar89 Well it definately got a Dave Score whether it got a number or not.😎
These videos dissecting all the little buggies you find in scopes really outline you expertise in this area. Engineers had month upon months to find these things, and you are finding them AND EXPLAINING them in minutes.
Watching you operating that touch screen made me think about eye tracking.
One of those days eye/gesture trackers will be integrated into stuff, and you'll be able to resize the right channel because the software will choose it based on your gaze.
Hit auto adjust on the monitor after using VGA, some monitors auto adjust better than others, but a good monitor, good cable, and good source can produce a great picture.
Of course, that's NO excuse for using a standard that's been around since NINETEEN EIGHTY FREAKING SEVEN when DVI would already produce a perfect picture with no tweaking
I agree about the lower end reviews. They're better for most people and those buying higher end equipment seem more likely to know how to run it through its paces.
Yolo.
Will it come pre rusted? Don't turn it on, take it apaaaart.
@14:00 that is displaying the history for segmented memory, so you are seeing a stored sample.
2000 for +150MHz from the factory and 3000 for upgrade on a base model? Signal gen for 390 when stand alone cost 320? Gimme a break! I think Siglent is developing the same shitty behaviour like the big players... Quite nice spec scope for that money but why is Siglent trying to make fools from us?
Thanks for the review! Keep it up!
I'm interested in high end kit reviews not because I'm in the market but just because it's interesting! Otherwise I'd prefer low end kit reviews. Thanks Dave.
Looks like some one at Siglent is a very big fan of the LeCroy UI. This one seems identical to the LeCroy one :-)
I think in fact that Siglent is working in some ways together with LeCroy and B&K Precision or selling them oscilloscopes/spectrum analyzers. The new LeCroy and BK Precision oscilloscopes looks exactly like the one which Siglent has released. Just with other name tag.
LeCroy: www.globaltestsupply.com/product/teledyne-lecroy-t3dso2304-oscilloscope-4-channel-300-mhz
BK Precision: www.mouser.ch/new/BK-Precision/bk-precision-2560-oscilloscopes/
On the question of reviewing high-end gear - I suggest reviewing the sort of gear you have used or would use. Highest value (to me) is where you explain how this product benefits (or not) your usage pattern. No point reviewing some high-end piece of RF gear you won't use in a blue moon as it wouldn't be any more useful than the manufacturer's demo. This review has lots of your experience and expectations in it which is great.
Excellent review. Thanks so much.
What would be interesting is if you put together a 'white paper' design for your dream first scope. Pick the best bits from the scopes you have and eliminate what is not needed in a first scope. There are so many options available these days that probably only server to confuse many people wanting to invest in their first expensive piece of test equipment. Incidentally the menu system and screen layout on that scope is very similar to my LeCroy.
Personally, I like to see reviews on affordable equipment
Sure, and that's what I expect. I don't expect review of high end gear to appeal to many.
Doesn't really matter what you review its all good always interesting stuff. I guess it comes down what your subscriber base would actually use and this I have no clue but even though I would not spend that kind of coin on equipment does not mean I lack the interest to watch said equipment being reviewed or torn down.
We like reviews of "high end" gear. Reviews of this cheap high-end stuff are good. Reviews of the absurdly high-end stuff (like Signal Path's review of the million+$ Tek scope are fun too.) Not everyone is a cheapskate. < $10K is "reasonable/"
VGA does give a reasonably good picture at least up to full HD, I tested it on many displays (unless cables are really bad). It's the display does blurring. Try adjusting settings (e.g., timings on VGA, there is often "auto" button). If it doesn't help, then it's the display simply cannot handle the non-native resolution without blurry interpolation.
I like touchscreens on scopes, but pinch & zoom just dont play along well IMO, I understand why some scope vendors dont incl. that on their scopes touchscreen not least if there is also physical knobs... it feels tacky.
Modern solid state software based instrumentation is amazing but you have to be an order of magnitude better to be able to take a piece like that, hit the ground running and squeeze out a review of this quality.
Silly question from a beginner, would it be possible use a mouse like a computer instead of using you fingers in this kind of oscilloscope?
As far as I know, a lot of modern scopes support it.
Not an expert, but I've seen some scopes that did it.
Also, older gear that ran on windows could do this too.
Sure can, mouse and keyboard.
You just know those chrome tipped knobs will wear their coating in a few months of wear and tear..
I was thinking to maybe use some sand paper on the first day.
I don't own any oscilloscopes but I still find this video interesting ... a lot of what you say can be applied to entry level scopes, especially in terms of what to look for in a scope
By the way, on this series of the Scopes the Acquire does not work in the Serial Decode mode. But the lower (and newer) 1000X-E series does! the serial decoding from the earlier acquired samples.
Scope has to trigger trdaditionally even if zone trigger is on - in this case it is an AND condition
+7K dollars and you can't put the waveform generator inside. come on..... lazy
@@deadgaming20 I guess they got that idea from the gaming industry :/
@@deadgaming20 I'm not familiar with equipment like this either but to me it just seems like they're nickel and diming you for every little feature, is this really high end equipment or is this some cheap sub $1000 consumer scope being sold for more than it's worth? I'm not against a bunch of addons/software unlocks if the base product is fairly inexpensive.
I think the modules are taken out to make the main oscilloscope affordable, not everybody need those modules
I think this was a good video, but i think reviews of the cheapest scopes are most fun , like 200-500$ there are more "surprises" in those videos... When you spend 5k+ on something like this, you kinda expect that it's good and everything thats not is a huge minus.. However on the cheap scopes you dont expect much so everything that does not suck is a fun surprise ;) So things sticking out in a review like this one are the issues that it had... I think it's more fun when they find something thats bang for your buck and even hackable to get even more out of it
No way I would buy a buggy copy product full of small things that would make my day bad.. so I bought the original, a fully loaded MSOX6004A. Looks, feels, works without any problems! Life is to short, time to expensive to work with bad instrumentation.
I love my budget Siglent gear, but I don’t think they are nearly ready for the high end market, for nearly 10 grand total cost of ownership I think we all expect extremely polished near perfect devices...
prefer the lower end reviews myself. There's zero percent chance of me buying an $8k scope but I'm a sample of one and even with hyper aggressive interpolation I don't make a trend.
Thanks Dave, I am thinking seriously about getting one.
For this kind of money make sure you demo it yourself first.
You can buy the same analyzer for a quarter of the price and have a proper GUI and display on a laptop. With those high software fees they should at least put a proper OLED in the thing.
There's no recent dso7000 review. The one I had in December was riddled with bugs. Maybe it's not a well loved scope enough to review. Also the 5000 series you did was bug riddled but there's claims many have been fixed and more to come. An updated review would be useful. The R&S 2000 series has a segmented memory replay bug that hasn't been highlighted on any channel. So many scopes with great potential all being let down by bugs to one degree or another. It's not a case of choosing the best scope.. its choosing which one has less bugs.
Just a whiff under $3k for a Chinese designed scope with cheap Chinese rust and user interface? Are they nuts? I’d get a used HP or Tek.
These reviews always seem to come down to get a keysight
If you are spending money on gear in that market, I'd go for the proven name as well.
Not really. You spend a few times more to get similar functionality. If you don't care about budget or can afford, sure. Otherwise siglent is really appealing.
@@johnyang799 Spending $7K on that ? For that money you can already get a new Tektronix 4 serie.
Stair stepped sinewaves. Can't tell if you're looking at the output of a dac or if that's the resolution crude essay of the display.
Such a brilliant review. Like gold for the manufacturer too. Could you get better than Dave for this sort of thing? I doubt it.
I just don't understand why these scope companies can't implement a separate, dedicated processor just for handling the UI and display. That UI is hopelessly unresponsive. Looks like it's running at 7 FPS almost all of the time. At the price point of this scope, there is just no excuse for the poor UI performance.
58:31 is the kind of stuff i would like to see from the start of the video
I think Siglent Engineers are all sitting around a monitor watching your video review of their project with paper and pencil in hand....
taking notes on what is wrong and what could be improved,
I think you are their product tester and rather than pay you, they give you a scope which you firmware upgrade when they sort out the things you find wrong with it...
Cool.......
Although I would like to be paid as well as a new scope...
Especially for touch screens I prefer menus that popup from the bottom up rather top down, the reason is that with top down, you cover the video and then the menu with your hand, so you always need to do useless hand movements.
30:00 is it becouse Chanel1 and Chanel2 have the sharing samples and C3 ,C4 with the same ADC.
34:20 Hmm, I see the C1 cursor on The R&H is offset from the centre (average) of the trace. This will make RMS much higher. Maybe you should do AC coupling? Or put a resistor on input?
Dave moaning that the VGA output wasn't sharp when in reality the external monitor was likely scaling the image (poorly) because the scope wasn't running at the monitors native resolution.... ..not the fault of the VGA interface, HDMI would have a similar issue
It is the fault of the software. At this level, at todays technology, I expect that the scope reading the EDID data to acquire the native resolution then scales the output to that size. Today, literally an IoT device could have a GUI which autoscales to the display. That behavior is unacceptable for an instrument in thousands dollar range.
Is there any evaluation of the 12-bit vertical resolution of the SDS5000?
Of course high-end reviews are nice ... I want to dream !
"haitch dee am ieeee" :'D
51:30 "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness." , said Oscar Wilde.
Actually, I don't consider their gear to be "mediocre", but my personal experience with them has been similar to Dave's and other TH-cam reviewers experiences (an extremely "mixed bag").
Just got my SDS5034X with free 500Mhz upgrade. I do get a 108kHz update rate when setting it to dot mode. You have to measure a signal of at least 110kHz and set the time base to 20ns/div. When switching to vector mode it will drop to 23kHz. I wonder why. Is it trying to draw the vectors for each trigger?
That bit where you compare the waveform counts between the R&S and Siglent - this could just be to do with triggering. Could the R&S auto-triggers more often than siglent. DId you have the trigger level set to 0V?
could you compare entry level scopes your videos are partly very old from what I get the rigol 1054z is still one of the best entry level scopes. Is that still true?
Loved the video..
..but Shahriar's already beaten you to the decent high-end brands!
Guess he's just younger and better-looking. :)
Seriously, though: great video; would love to see more like this. There's no way I could ever afford this stuff, so YT videos are my only access to it. Guess that's true for about 95% of your audience too! :)
and DVI FTW!
no HDMI rubbish (connectors are rather fragile compared to real Computer DVI Connection) and also the licensing cost for HDMI as well...
$7000 for this scope and it has graphics capability of 1990 computer? For that price the display wanna be 300 points per inch like modern cell phone and tablet displays.
I cannot bring myself to support companies that are effectively bottom feeders whose sole focus is to make it cheap.
If my goal is to save a few bucks - I would rather buy a used Keysight or other serious player over any of the offerings from Siglent.
This would be perfect for my CRT.
DVI=1999, HDMI=2002
But i guess you can't expect to much on a lowcost scope
For low cost you can't beat Rigol, less than half as much and you get HDMI out, two sig gens built in, higher sample rate, etc.
HDMI is noisy. Interferes with measurement?
When comparing update and measurement rates you really should make sure to compare at the same record length. Maybe you did, but it's not clear from the video.
Yes, I did, sorry if that wasn't clear.
"If you're still with me" -hell yeah I am... Waffle on Dave, I will listen. Just get that damn yellow box off the scope screen!
4096 bins might be the fastest speed worth using.
GaP green LED's? I thought bright InGaN LED's are cheap enough it would have been better for the button backlighting._
Nice gift. :-)
Use the horse power for signal processing
Let's wait a year and then install the newest firmware, quite sure that will fix most of the problems. Siglent is known for bananaware.
The big name brands are catching up though.
So the one you are demoing is $7200 yank, how much is that in Aussie money? $10K?