Fixing Problems with my late model SVEA 123R
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ธ.ค. 2019
- I show the process I went through trying to fix some problems with a newer model of a SVEA 123R stove.
I bought a new version of the classic SVEA 123 design stove (circa 2014) and it had some annoying behaviors, 1 the stove candled, did not turn off completely and would burn for a while, and 2 the flame would pulse.
Using ideas I found on other TH-cam channels and the internet I try to correct the issues.
BernieDawg rebuild videos:
• BernieDawg's Svea 123R...
• BernieDawg's Svea 123R...
• Svea 123R Test Post Re...
Blog:
www.berniedawg.com/category/ho...
Classic Camp Stoves:
classiccampstoves.com/threads...
My SVEA 123R Cook-kit:
• My Svea 123R cook kit
Stoves and Burners Playlist:
• Stoves and Burners - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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Good video. Thanks. I'm very familiar with this stove and its siblings such as the models 8R and 71 and 80 made under the other Swedish brand names of Optimus and Primus. Two things worth noting for preppers are that you can used leaded gasoline in these stoves, and that they should never be used indoors because they can release a huge fireball if the safety valve goes or it can simply blow up if the valve fails.
When younger, I took an Optimus 80 (similar to a Svea 123 without the R) with me on a three-year trip through a number of third-world countries where gasoline was the only available fuel and I must have put 3 or 4 gallons of leaded gasoline through it until if finally clogged up. Even then I was easily able to clear the stem with a 1/16th inch drill bit. It is still my favorite camping stove. The hardest thing I found with extensive use of these stoves is the tank cap's gasket and the little rubber plug in the safety valve can fail. The same cap is common to all these models. The gaskets and plugs dry out from the heat and will crack leaking a flammable gas.
Decades ago I bought and gave to friend travelling in remote areas a "Taiwan Svea" that you referred to. He said he was using it while camping near the old Mayan ruins near Tikal in Guatemala in Central America. He said it caused him a lot of trouble while the army was watching him (there was a low-level civil war on then) when the safety valve did not open, and as he put it, "the tank puffed up like a football and the stem shot into the sky".
Wow! I only had my safety valve on the cap go open once while camping in the rain forests of Sierra Leone in West Africa. I had been running it hot and nearly out of fuel (a good way to scorch the feed wick) and I had just shut off the stove with the key which was so hot I burned my finger. That burn helped me knock the shut-off stove over and the remaining gasoline hit the rest of the hot tank. The 3-foot spray of atomized gasoline shooting into the air attracted a lot of attention from the dozen natives that come to watch me try to cook a meal.
I've had other mishaps with fuel. While backpacking in the wilderness in the mountains of Washington state on a quiet still evening with no wind, I moved about 25 feet uphill away from my campfire to fuel that same Optimus 80 stove. After I did that and wiped off a little white gas spillover with a small rag, I saw the rag burst into flames. The fumes had travelled downhill to the campfire in the cold still air, lit and followed the path uphill to the rag.
Gasoline is dangerous. Be careful, be safe. For your own safety, please don't light these stoves indoors.
-- John
Great stove stories :-) The Washington story is surprising and scary.
I'm very aware of the dangers of gas, I learned that as a kid playing with the stuff. :-) Luckily no serious lessons.
Hello !
The pulsing was a result of the vapour pressure falling during the flame burn then rebuilding as the heat vaporised more fuel as you said. (Not enough vapour to sustain a constant burn without hunting).
The wick metal twist centre should be a few millimetres longer than the start of the wick.
The wick should not be that tight when dry fitting as it will swell with the fuel, causing a potential restriction to fuel flow.
(Fuel flow restrictions can cause hunting).
Insert the wick as far as it will go using the wire centre to assist pushing it in, then pull it back again, a few millimetres.
(This will increase the area for vapour to form at the end of the warm wick but not big enough that it allows for pressure drop and the resultant hunting flame).
Rebuild and retest. All else being equal, you should be good to go.
Nice vid.
Cheers !
Thank you for the tips. I'll definitely give them a try, probably in the fall when the weather slows down the house and garden projects. 🙂
When you shut it down, be gentle ! There's a graphite gasket in the valve. If you crank it hard you strip the graphite gasket and the graphite migrates to the burner jet eventually plugging the jet and,... ruining the graphite gasket !
As soon as you struggled to take the wick out I could see that that was one of your problems, I have been repairing these for some time now, and have two or three 123Rs and two or three 123s the principal is the same as the 8Rs also the 111 etc, but the jet is very small compared to those others, so I suggest you reduce the wick thickness as I think it is too thick for the stove to vaporizer it, then give the jet needle cleaner one more click when turning the valve open, this should allow the valve spindle to close fully in the stove, last thing, check the jet hole. I think you will find that old stove is a 123 (only my opinion)
I did thin down the original wick but I'll try thinning it down again.
thanks.
Bless you for shouting out to the great Colin Fletcher!!
He's my man, I've read all of his books and "The Complete Walker" is how I learned to backpack.
Good vid. I haven't fired mine up in a long time so i appreciate the trouble shooting you went thru may help me should i have any issues so thank you. Yes i do have the original with a beautiful patina from the yrs of use. Thx for sharing 👍
I have one of the 123 Taiwan copies which I bought new at a bankruptcy sale in maybe 1984 and it is my best stove (I have a M1950, a optimus 8R and a Coleman 502) I have used it continuously for decades with zero problems. It works well in cold temperatures. My Optimus 8R is not as good . I have taken it apart twice and I noted the wick issue that you had so if I take it apart again I will thin the wick.
Great video.
Thanks. To add one more similar experience, mine wasn't at all, after it has sat for 10 years with fuel in it. The wick wasn't letting fuel through. And then it would give off sparks, which I later found out was the wick burning.
I 80% repaired it by replacing the filler cap seal, and running a tank of 25% ethanol through it. I probably could have left it that way, but I ended up replacing the wick and the valve graphite seals as well.
I got some feedback that maybe the wick is too thick. Later this winter I may break down the stove and try a thinner wick.
Check the valve in the cap. It controls the pressure level in the tank. I ended up rebuilding the valve and the stove (70's 123R) now works like new. GOOD LUCK!
A bad cap could be a problem. I know older white gas stove used pressure in the tank to control the flame.
Thanks for the tip.
Love the stove , my first one i bought was replaced by the stove company , because the valve leaked and turned into a fireball on a bwca trip .
It seems your on to something with the wick density. I’d clip the wire and pull a few strands of cotton out then safety wire the remaining wick and test for tightness. It’s a flow issue. The next thing is the jet hole, the size or if it or it has micro burs from when it was punched. Metal Flashing there at its exit. Jet size would be the next thing. I had candling with my new one. Taking out the jet and needle, then opening the valve and cleaning with carb cleaner spray seemed to fix that. Opening and closing to wear in the valve seat. Maybe a brass bur there?. I also noticed that from off to full was only a 1/4 turn. I timed the cleaning needle at 4 clicks. That gave me the shut off with no candling and a 1/2 turn from off to full and the needle up through the jet a little past that. Similar to my 1974 version which runs great. They are similar now as to how they run and operate. Seems they only had 3 clicks on the new one.. Like anything you buy these days, most things need “tuning”. Great vid, btw!!!
i bought one of these ...at garage sale. so TY for the video...I need to trouble shoot mine too!
Cool find. Check out the links to Berniedawg;s how to videos, and blog, they're very helpful.
Good luck on your referb.
th-cam.com/video/LNJSDacuCHQ/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/-svgLuqyGG4/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/y7smIlR7zqY/w-d-xo.html
Blog:
www.berniedawg.com/category/howto/ask-berniedawg/
That was a great video! You're very diligent. I need to make a flame spreader for mine. Pick up my stove for five bucks at a flea market. 😅
Great find, I've seen a lot of used stoves missing spreaders, if something is not nailed down it will be lost or like my kids who
"use it and lose it" 😀
I looked on line for spreader, yikes, expensive.
I did find this,
classiccampstoves.com/threads/making-a-flame-spreader.35927/
After what you found, did you try switching jets with the older one to compare the flame? I’d try that.
For some,the pulsing sound is what they like about it.Look at birnie dogs silencer ,3d copied for approx 35$.Quiets it down and gives a cleaner flame spread
I have had the same problem with mine and have tried "re- timing" the cleaning needle but the candleing still persisted plus it was burning with a yellowish flame. So.....there were two problems. I checked the jet and noticed that the hole appeared to be enlarged. I changed the jet after which the cleaning needle would not function at all. It seems that the brass section in which the needle is set was moving out of alignment somehow and had damaged the jet. This was certainly the case as after fitting the new jet it jammed completely. So I removed the cleaning needle and it runs better now. As for shutting off, I dismantled the valve, cleaned it, reassembled and opened and closed it a few times and now it shuts down OK......which leaves me, in effect, with a 123 instead of a 123R. I can live with that. My stove was a gift from a good friend. He bought it at a car boot sale (I think you call them yard sales) and paid £8.00 (about $12) for it. I guess the previous owner had problems too. You could try removing the cleaning needle and swapping the jet with the one one your 123. It may fit but only with the cleaning needle removed. The 123R jet, is made to accomodate that cleaning needle. If you need a new jet it is part number 2509 and this jet fits these stoves....Jet for stoves 8R, 11, 111, 123R, 199, 5R, 55, 155, 535. Hope this helps.....Regards, Dave
Dave, thanks for comment. 8 pounds for a 123R working correctly or not is a good deal.
I did get mine to run correctly and stop candling.
It is a real shame that the quality of these stoves has gone down since they stopped making them in Sweden.
@@planetsideagent I like David's idea. White flame tips suggest incomplete combustion, hence over fuelling. So the wrong jet or a damaged jet.
I’ve been using Svea stoves since the seventies and all of them make the roaring noise!
It's not the roaring that bothers me, I like it, its' that the burner pulses. I have an old 123 and Primus stoves with the same type of burner and they don't pulse.
The pulsing doesn't effect the performance it's just annoying. I'll still keep using the stove. 😊
Great video. Have you tried to place the stove on a piece of insulating material, in order to make it burn hotter.
My stove burns the same way, when it's staying on a cold stone.
Great job fixing the stove all the same 💪
For regular use I do have a isolating ground pad made from a political yard sign covered with aluminum foil.
Here is a video of my 123 cookkit:
th-cam.com/video/f2NLTof8I-k/w-d-xo.html
I had one commenter suggest that the wick may be to thick, I' going to take a look at that.
Have you heard of a way to test the spring loaded relief valve in the cap?
No I haven't. There is a group that does have a lot of information on classic camp stoves, you might find something there.
classiccampstoves.com/
Also there is a online shop from the UK that sells parts for old stoves
fettlebox.co.uk/
Can you pull up and take away the little "resting legs" for the pot or frying pan from the wind shield, or are they fixed?
They are fixed. You can twist them in or out for storage or for different sizes pots.
Sorry, but just another little point, the early 123Rs did-not have that long stem on them that looks like a thread, if you know what I mean!! my belief is that this has reduced the pressure in the vaporize chamber, hence you will not get the roar that the old ones have.
I think you are correct on that and I suspect that having the built in cleaner doesn't help ether.
The earlier versions had a smaller vaporizer body with less mass to heat, so they built pressure faster and burned hotter. The newer ones will eventually heat up but it takes much longer.
I have a couple older 123s. They do not candle.
I have a couple new 123Rs. They both candle. (or did, I no longer have one of them)
I also have a couple 8Rs. Despite them also having similar embedded cleaning needles, they do not candle.
Although I'd be curious to know if a different, perhaps an older Swedish made vaporizer would fix the candling, I won't spend money fixing what shouldn't need fixing. (They were bought new) At least not while I have a couple older ones that don't require fixing.
I'm sure you've noticed how the older Swedish made models are stamped "Made in Sweden" while the newer Taiwanese models are just stamped "Sweden". I'm sure they realize many folks see "Sweden" stamped into the tank and wrongly assume it's still made in Sweden (rather than just based in Sweden).
Truthfully, I was surprised a different vaporizer fixed your candling. I had come to the conclusion the the candling was due to having extra fuel in the cavity holding the cleaning assembly.
I cut a piece out of an old leather belt, folded it around the key and sewed it in place. Saves burned fingers. :)
the different vaporizer and the old one started candling again. My guess is the Taiwanese stoves valve assemblies are not made with the same precision as the Swedish made stoves.
My 8R doesn't candle nor the Primus 71s and Optimus 80s.
The 71s and 80s valves have a very smooth action.
Thank you. Now I definitely know what to not buy.
You lost your klick count with the cleaning needle. Pull the cleaner close it up. Reinsert it. Give it 1 or 2 clicks. Thats the cause of the candling.
Your pressure valve is releasing over pressure, causing that up and down.
Thanks, I'll double check that.
No 3 clics...3
Left turn..closes....right turn closes! ....use the better side...
Left turn raises the needel to clean/clear the jet. If used to close it will leak fuel and may damage the jamed in needle.
Right turn fully to shut off.
상향식 저소음여ㄴ소캡 잇써요
I thought the pulsing was normal sounding like helicopter
When running correctly it does pulse or flutter. The effect I was getting was more accurately a surge, which it shouldn't do. The wrong nomenclature on my part :-)
First of all you turned the key the wrong way. With the needle out it will sputter. That’s 41 minutes I’ll never get back.
Sorry. Actually my SVEA 123, Primus and Optamus stoves all shut down immediately without sputtering.
@@planetsideagent if you turn the key to the left like you did the cleaning pin sticks out of the hole in the burner. If you turn it right that shuts off the fuel. Try it.
Only an american would have "Praablems" with something as simple as this. Perhaps you'd even find fault with a box of matches?
These are beautifully designed stoves that is why I own three. My problem is not with the simplicity but with the workmanship of my newer 123R. The flame pulsed and it would not shut down completely when the valve was closed. I would think no matter where you are from that poor performance would be considered a problem.
@@planetsideagent Yes, it sounds like a fault with the valve system. I suppose i am rather biased against the newer models having used the same "original" for thirty odd years with zero faults even under the harshest conditions. It's old, old story with everything - the moment it becomes fashionable, it becomes modernised and improved and made down to a price rather than up to a standard. I mean, would you buy an ice pick with a plastic handle or crampons with velcro straps??
Pip Pip Tally Ho! We Yanks like to correct Praablems on produucts that don't function correectly. 🤣 Chill brotha we're all put our socks on the same way. What I'm wondering is why guys have your steering wheel on the wrong side and exactly why drive on the wrong side of the dang road??? "Long live the Queen!"
++@@Nashoba432++ What ever are you running on about? We've some of the oldest "roads" in the world here in the UK and I'm not talking about the Roman ones either, so who the hell are you to tell us we're driving on the wrong side of them?
@@JohnSmith-pd1fz I'm an American that uses matches correctly. As You stated we "Americans can find fault with a box of matches." So hey, why so ruffled? I'm talking in reply to Your insult to Americans mate. We hardly even use matches any more. Have you heard, there's a rather nice tool called a lighter. Just saying. "Who the hell am I?" I'm American!" You pushed me and my entire country, what the Frik do you expect. Oh & btw, Merry Christmas !!!