Testing a Bunch of Natural Leather Tanning Materials- leaves, barks, roots, acorn caps, etc.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2015
- This is the book I have used for most of my tanning materials research: amzn.to/1JnJ1uh It is a great book, but mostly full of information that most people don't need. I'll have some info from it and other research in the book whenever I get that finished.
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I'm testing a whole bunch of tanning materials on skin samples. I've collected at least 16 different barks, leaves, roots and stuff so far. Manzanita, madrone, acacia, willow, acorn caps, oak bark, oak galls, artichoke, rosemary etc... The tannic acids used in tanning leather are actually very common in plants, the problem is finding sources that are concentrated enough to actually tan skins. The actual tanning properties of materials vary as well. It's not just the amount of tannic acid, but the type, it's solubility, other acids and fermentable substances in the plant material that can all make a big difference.
The skin is being prepared in lime before tanning After the lime treatment, it will be soaked in chicken manure tea (bating) to mellow the skin and smooth out the grain, and then drenched in an acid bath of fermenting bran or grains to help remove residual lime.
The test pieces will be small, each one probably about 6x6 inches. The samples will be weighed and a set amount of plant material weighed out for each sample to get an idea of the tanning strength of the various plants. After tanning, the skin samples will all be finished the same way by oiling and drying. I expect to see differences in color, feel and pliability, as well as differences in penetration times.
Forgot to get out several materials, Canaigre (sand dock), sumach leaves, fir bark and green harvested madrone bark.
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The skin I was going to use for these tests was damaged from oversoaking. I have over 20 materials accumulated and will get back to this project someday. The project is not just about testing these materials, but to look toward a sort of system for testing materials so that people can more effectively experiment with local materials. And also to encourage people to do so. My vegetable tanning book is on hold for now.
SkillCult I'm looking forward to this project. Your leather tanning videos are fascinating
Yidris I second that ☝🏽
What about coffee and black tee?
I can not wait for the book, it's gonna be so useful
Gordon TheFisherman That's the idea anyway! My goal with the book is primarily to make veg tanning very accessible to everyone by keeping things really simple. However, there will also be a lot of really cool supporting materials in there and quite a bit of research material on plants used in tanning. I think people will find it useful at any level and a quick way for beginners to get out of the gate and running quickly.
thanx bro for this . you're a good teacher.
Interesting video. I have been involved with the outdoors all my life but not quite so much as you. I take it you are in (Northern) California. Glad to learn something new everyday.
Thanks!!
Just over a week ago I knew absolutely nothing about this fascinating process.
I watched one single movie where black tea was the source of tannin. My first 3 fish skins are not even ready for drying and I'm fully hooked!
I've been binge watching your channel and just wanted to thank you for this info.
I've been a fish monger/fisherman for decades and in a few months will be harvesting the abundant sumac that grows in ditches here in New Jersey.
We both share the "I need to know all I can" on a subject AND having a channel.
I'll be publishing my fish skin tanning journey as well...
I'm thinking quite compulsively as I now have 3 salmon skins, 1 walleye, 2 haddock and 3 bass.
Fun. Yeah, it's an easy process to fall in love with. When you see the transformation happen. there is a fish skin tannery opened in the northwest called 7 leagues leather. they have an instagram account. Basically a wasted resource.
Could you please make a historical replica of Russian Leather or Russian Reindeer leather? It includes yeast, birch tar, birch bark, willow bark, oak bark among other ingredients. It's high demand right now the 1786 Russian leather. You seem to have the skills to pull this off.
Not going to happen anytime soon, but i'd like to do more research and development with leather tanning in the future.
So much interesting and unique information in here, thank-you! I wish there was someone in my bioregion doing a comparison on what we have available. Maybe I'll get there... I'm wanting to work on sheepskins though, so not sure this will help, going to sort through your other videos!!
What region. I might be able to rattle off a few...
Vancouver Island!
Very cool. I can't wait to see the results. What are your thoughts on oak leaves? I'd think they'd be high in tannins and abundant to collect in the fall.
I'm sure it's possible. It would probably take a lot of them and there is still the question of qualities of the finished leather as well. You would want to get them before they rain did. As far as green or dead in the fall goes, I'm not sure. I'm trying one species, but it is very thick evergreen leaf.
Is there a way to determine tannin content without finding it recorded somewhere.
I love every single thing you do. Thank you for educating us.
You're welcome :) certainly there are more sophisticated ways. The most accessible is measuring specific gravity. there is actually a hydrometer called a barkometer for measuring tannin. But it is not entirely reliable, because it measures liquid density, not tannin. It's just that in a high tannin material, often the higher density is mostly due to tannin. But sugars also affect it, and you use the same tool to measure specific gravity for sugar, the scale on the hydrometer is just different, ditto for salt, or battery acid, etc. But they are useful if you can find one. Personally, i'd just take the experimental/experiential approach and learn to read the skin and liquor as it tans. you just add more if you need it and by the time the skin is done, you have a pretty good idea if the material is high or low tannin.
@@SkillCult I am trying to learn enough to tan my first ever hide. It's a little mind boggling.
Holy crap Sir. This video blew my mind. I have SO much to study now. Thank You! I just use commercial chemicals. I didn't know you could use all of these things! Do you have any recommendations for a natural substance for a Floridian?
sorrry, I missed this comment. You can look into mangrove bark! Not sure what else, but you probably have some oaks.
oak galls used to be used to make ink with
Fantastic video! I'm dying to know how these came out, did a part 2 ever come to pass?
No, sorry, but it will this summer or sooner, promise! (ish) I have even more materials collected now.
Hmmm I have rice bran... what does the bran tea do exactly? I'd be very interested in this book if you ever got back around to it.
Hey Steven,
I noticed you very often mention the research you do when preparing for your projects. Ever thought of doing a video just about the books & materials you use to help develop your methods? It would be really cool to see a ploymath's library as well as how you source information and develop skills.
Great stuff as always!
Cool idea. I have an evolving philosophy and preferences on research I could probably talk your ear off about. One word though. Googlebooks OMFG, googlebooks! I've actually thought about doing a video on googlebooks and how to use it to good effect.
I'd love to hear your ideas on research in all of its forms!
I have thought about mentioning this to you for quite a while.as it is clearly a predominant part of your work. Since your health is a limiting factor at times...this might be a topic easier to work on...?
Aside from just gaining knowledge.....knowing how to go about pursuing meaningful information is as big of a deal imho. Lastly, how the various different knowledge bases inform, overlap and spill over into each other is very significant as well.
I use research sparingly most of the time, but once in a while go on a binge when I feel like I'm ready. One odd way I operate is to avoid taking in too much information. That forces me to mull over what I have to work with instead of substituting other peoples ideas or assertions as working assumptions. Information is dangerous. I think the most profound ways that various disciplines and understandings overlap and influence each other may be pretty invisible. The definition of Intuition is basically that it is not a forward cerebral process. While I might understand one subject because there is a direct obvious similarity that I can observe and think about, I have a feeling (intuition :) that all that stuff mixing up and cross pollinating in our subconscious is probably more useful in the end. I might do something new and succeed at it well the first time, but I probably won't think out all of those reasons that I'm doing things a certain way, even if they were ultimately informed by previous experience.
Interesting concept & method. I particularly liked the idea of thinking deeply on what one has available without clouding it up with the working methods of others. I find I over load on info when trying to learn something new and often see real value in backing away from it at times. The internet has been a help and hindrance for me. Lots of interesting topics to learn but to much info stops progress. Your mention of intuition is interesting. The older I get the more I value and listen to my 'feelings' about things. Hope you decide to make a video about this topic...
hanging it from the head, great idea. gonna try that.
also a tip that helps with defleshing meat and membrain. lay the hide down and pour water on the inside. fold in the ends and let it sit overnight.
That is a good tip. I have noticed that a quick soak seems to help a little with fleshing, but it's not always desired to let the hair get wet. Thanks.
Subscribed, super fascinating stuff!! I'm curious if you have ever attempted to tan with evergreen bark/needles? Where I live cedar and pines are extremely abundant and was wondering if this is a viable option? I'm mostly curious about cedar bark. Cheers
I have not, but I think you could find information on the tannin content. I recently posted on my blog skillcult.com/blog a huge list of tanning materials. One is a reference to an article on tanning materials of the northwest. it probably covers most if not all of the conifers. But tannin content is one thing and quality of the tan is another.
Great video! Do you plan to show the results of this experiment in the future?
Yes! I have everything stockpiled. I should get to it this winter'
Where can we buy your book, and when will it be ready to buy? I have a pretty good fur handling book, but I have learned things from your videos that were not in that book.
I think the Eucalyptus is stringy bark
G'day, thanks for the videos. Gonna give veg tanning a shot here in Australia, and whilst we lack a lot of useful and easy to prepare natural resources like NA or Europe, we do happen to have some of the best veg tannin sources on the planet. Shall have to learn from your other videos on hide preparation before I knock up some wattle bark "tea" and give it a go! Apologies if it's somewhere in a video I am yet to watch, but can you comment on the ability to "concentrate" tannin solutions? Is it possible to boil down or somehow reduce the tannin tea, to store it more compactly for later use?
It can be done, though some tannins are affected by high temps. Solid Concentrates are common in the tanning industry though. they are probably made by vacuum evaporation. Seems like a lot of work. Check out The Bush Tannery, just met that guy online.
Any update on these experiments? I've been preparing to do the same thing, I've got some dried bindweed, golden willow bark, and juniper bark. I'm am very interested to see how your materials turn out. I hope to start liming my deer hide this fall, then cut into pieces tan three of those pieces and dry the rest for future use.
HI Kyle: The update is that the skin I prepared got messed up and the project has been shelved waiting for me to prepare another one. I should do that soon. So many projects to get back to...
Do you think black walnut husks would work well for tanning because of their high tannin content?
Great video by the way!
+Owen Poteet I hear they do work. My friend did a hide with them and said it took a huge amount. The color is very dark. I would think that in most areas you will find better and probably easier (and less messy!) materials. Many of these materials I'm testing, even if they work, won't be the best option in a given area.
SkillCult Alright, thanks for the information and the quick reply man! I just found your channel today and I've really liked your videos so far. They cover subjects that other channels don't neccessarily do well with, such as the leathermaking proccess and growing apples, and you cover them very well. You've earned another subscriber!
+Owen Poteet Thanks Owen, definitely need subscribers! It's been pretty slow getting any momentum going, but they say after 1000 it gets easier. We'll see. Got some fun stuff planned!
Subscribed. I was wondering if Indian almond leaves can be used for tanning or not because it's in abundance where I'm from. Many aquarists use Indian almond leaves to create blackwater.
+Eddie Puah Looks like it. "The bark, roots, astringent green fruits, and leaves con- tain tannin and have been used in tanning. A black dye serving for ink has been obtained from bark, fruits, and foliage also." google >terminalia catalppa tanning
+SkillCult I'll definitely give it a try when I can. Can't wait for your book.
I was wondering the same thing. Where you from?
+waddaho gooday, I'm from Malaysia.
Did you ever upload a follow up video?
Not yet, I have to prepare another hide. That one got screwed up.
SkillCult well... looking forward to it.
I live in reno nv can i use pine tree bark ??
I'm sure you could. I'm somewhat familiar with that country. My grandparents lived in Susanville and I spent the summers there. If you drive out that way at least, or up into the hills, there is black oak as well. Anywhere there's water, there will also be willow which is good. In the desert hills, you probably have mountain mahogany, which I haven't used, but I would be surprised if it didn't work. Also up into the hills you will start finding other conifers, many of which are useful for tanning, most of them it seems. Check out my recent vid on tanning materials and my blog for a long list. I'm pretty sure ponderosa pine is in that list www.skillcult.com/blog
I have read some have used grape seeds for tanning likely a commercial byproduct of the wine industry. As a very small home scale grape grower I don't get near enough seeds for tanning. I do get a couple of bushels of shreaded vine prunings every year. I have found no data for the vines themselves. Is there a test for tannin content?
I think the test should be tanning with them to see if it works and if the leather seems good. That is very interesting. I can probably get those by the truckload, or at least whole pommace. If you have a source for that information, I'd love to look at it.
SkillCult here is the link.
ec.europa.eu/environment/life/project/Projects/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.dspPage&n_proj_id=2687&docType=pdf
Are you going to make a Merlot colored leather? Lol
SkillCult I wonder if a simple PH test strip might give some indication? Have you ever tested your known solution?
A taste test would probably be more useful. If it's very astringent, make tea and throw in a squirrel hide.
do you know if pecan husks would work?
I'm not sure. I would be surprised if you couldn't use them at all, but it may take a lot of them and if the tannin is very weak, extracting multiple batches with the same liquid. Black Walnut hulls can be used, but apparently it takes a lot of them.. I can't find anything on their tannin content.
OK, thanks for your answer
Do you know where I could get some tan oak acorns? I think that that’s the best source of tannin that you have.
Where do you think I could get some tan oak acorns.
Could someone grow them in another part of the country from where you are? Just out of curiosity. Because once I get my own property and get everything going this would be something I’m interested in
I wouldn't plant them thinking of tannin. They grow slow and they are also probably going to go extinct from phytopthera ramorum. I have a video on tanning materials in different places and a huge list on my website. Find something that grows already, or is indigenous to your area.
Ok
have you ever used tea? as it is very high in tannin, it should be good?
I haven't. I remember reading somewhere that old tea leaves were collected and used in tanning in England, but I think another source said they are not used. Can't remember for sure though. You'd need a whole lot that's for sure, especially if they were already steeped. And as with all of this stuff, just because it will tan, doesn't mean it will really make for a nice tan. I know people that have used coffee grounds, but I've never seen any leather tanned with it that looked very nice.
thanks for the info. I was thinking of buying some loose tea and give it a go.
I'll bet you can find something free that will work better.
sumac leaves!:o have you had sumac drink?
I have tasted sumac berries and we have a relative here that has similar berries you can make a drink from. I do have some sumach leaves sent by friends from back east,, but they don't grow here. I hear nothing but good things about them though.
@6:10 out machete is that?
ps: amazing vids
They don't make that anymore. it was called black jack. Not sure who made it. It's a heavy chopper type knife. Good for limbing, using as a froe and light chopping. I usually prefer a hatchet, but this is good for peeling stuff too.
@@SkillCult ye a hatchet is better for the forests of the north hemisphere. My grandad used to say: "There is a tool for every job and there is a job for every tool..that's true for people too"
@@mapleenderson8541 I pretty well agree with that assessment. The thing I use those big chopping knives for the most is limbing up small stuff, mostly taking the twigs off of limbs.
@@SkillCult i have kukri machete from cold steal, kinda looks like the one in the video. If i have to choose between hatchet or that it is hatchet all the way but those big knives are fun and they have a place
What was Spanish Leather? And why was it sooo prized? Make some bro!
don't forget to add urine!
There are all kinds of prized leathers from all over the world in different periods. Often processes were proprietary, but there may be some information if a person were willing to dig deep into very old books and probably learn spanish to read some of them.
oak galls used to be used to make ink with
With iron. I prefer carbon ink for the most part, but I've made the gall and iron ink too.
SkillCult ill have to find that video on your channel. thanks for the content