@@CIRCLEOFTONE wished i kept the plecs but they gave that that sound..that motown thud.alas i was into punk n motorhead n that little kay sounded a bit rickenbakerish so i was away lol...
I think the age of the "TH-cam Musician" has painted a "wrong" picture of music and musicianship. Music has shifted to this dress to impress over the top point of virtue. Instead of writing music for other people to enjoy these master slappers and shredders are just showing off. And that just fucks with me, music and playing any instrument shouldn't be a Sport. It's about creating emotion and energy and not some wank fest à la "Look how fast I can play!"
Yep. Writing is an afterthought. We need to work on hooks, anthemic choruses, verses and stuff you can wave a beer to. Tone chasing and technique have done a lot of damage to the scene. I talk about it more here: th-cam.com/video/YCoqAjrGOo8/w-d-xo.html
Sounds like you're describing hair metal, great players awful songs, I love EVHs solos (especially on beat it), but I'd never listen to a van Halen song, cheesey rubbish
@Beam Out I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Any way record sales don't mean a thing, or Justin Beiber is better than VH. Name one van halen song to convert me. Not panama, hot for teacher, aint talking about love as I know all those. I do like Chicken foot though, not for Satch especially, but sammy hager is great
This is probably the reason why rock is dead. Everyone wants to be famous and sell out arenas but nobody wants to make music, be in a band or even get out of their fucking bedroom. Honestly any level of skill above Eddie Van Halen is too much to be popular. Eddie is the most technical you can be and maintain rockstar status and Eddie is still an absolute genius of songwriting.
@@CIRCLEOFTONEagreed. he's Also the only guitarist who can have busy guitar parts without distracting you from the song. That's why he's the greatest ever, in my opinion of course.
I feel like it's pretty basic: How many great songwriters are dying to hire a lead bass player? What song hits hard that also has a high tuned/eq'd bass that "cuts through the mix"? Slap bass can be great... in funk music. ie, music that also has a piano, synth, or horns to cover the low end. sometimes all of the above. But somethings got to play actual bass frequencies in a band... preferably the bassist. I once recorded a metal band were the bass player was a lead bass player fancy guy type who eq'd all the bass frequencies out of his tone until it was all attack and the drummer did the same thing to his kick drum. (i suspect at the bassists suggestion) when i tried to tell them the problem with this while trying to make a heavy drop tuned metal groove album, everybody looked at me like i was crazy and didn't know what i was doing, then proceeded not to listen to anything else i said after that point. it was pretty amazing. and by amazing i mean a nightmare. The only thing that had bass was the guitar. lol. It was like trying to mix And Justice For All... if there was no bass in the kick drum either.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE always about the song, and the emotion/experience of that song. bring your audience real emotions, and you'll actually have one. (an audience that is. can't help y'all robots put technique aside and learn vulnerability). ;)
Les Claypool is the only bassist I could tolerate "playing on that level" in a popular genre. And even he twisted it in such a way where it worked FOR the music and the band.
Yep. There are a handful of outliers but they have one thing on common....they could write songs with hooks and choruses like Les. Les's verses were gold. My dad actually bought me sailing the seas of cheese back in the day for me to check out.
Shout out to Bobby Vega who is an amazing pick player. Any bassist worth their salt should have chops from all the various techniques but should know when to use them and when not to
Really interesting video, when I hear these type of bass players, I always feel where’s the low end! They put themselves up front and centre in the mix, where the guitars should be....hold the bottom end together!✌️
There aren't many modern records with slap anyway. No one hasn't even cared about bass in decades. Yes there are exceptions but thats the rule. Also all professional recording bassists no not to slap unless they are told to.
You're 100% right. Gravitated away from this style immediately once I wasn't a fourteen year old wanker. It works in some situations but is by and large unpleasant to listen to. It's a neat trick.
Yeear, you are so right, It's about writing good songs. Not showing off for bass nerds. If you go on a desert island , would you pick a good song or a youtuber solo to listen to? Thanks man, you do great job here.
I see it as it’s up to the bass player personally. My father is an amazing slapper but he does play with a pick and fingers as well. It’s up to him or her to choose how they want to play
The only bass players I really like on a more technical level are Cliff Burton, Les Claypool, and Jaco. When I started playing bass (even as a guitarist) I thought I had to play crazy slap salad stuff and noodly sounding solos to be good. Bass is really best at what you described in this video with maybe the odd solo every once in awhile, I'm glad I reached that conclusion before I even watched this. I have a new appreciation for the instrument.
The thing is, you can use your fingers and be busy and still fit in the pocket. Duck Dunn is probably my favorite bass player, and he has some really nice licks that move around but he always occupies his own sonic space and supports the song instead of being the focus. And wouldn’t you know it, he used flatwounds.
I have played as much bass as guitar, oddly I absolutely never played with a pick until recently. I went on a wrecking crew kick, put a sponge by the bridge, and bought a heavy ass pick. Fun stuff. Another toy for me, that is how I look at.it. His point about playing for others is dead on. I am super consistent with the pick. Proper mechanics are key.
17:11 I feel the same thing about Jazz the only people that be going to those jazz gigs predominantly are other Jazz players not to mention I think a huge reason why jazz is relevant is because of what it can teach other than that I have only ran into a few folks in my life that actually appreciate jazz and not become bored to death.
Exactly. It's a bubble. Guitarists are also in a bubble where they think whatever guitar based TH-cam channel is popular etc. It's jazz. The music buying, loving public has moved on.
I'm just getting into bass (guitarist) ... I really needed this video xD I got sucked into the whole "play with your fingers to get out of the guitarist mindset"-thing and I'm hating it, though before seeing this I guess I was too stubborn to admit it ... Thank you!
I like fairly upfront bass that cuts through and most of that bass is picked becuase picked bass cuts through in a mix so much better, some genres like dub of course work way better with that thumpy warm bass but for a bit more attack and less wooly sustain a pick if needed. I'm mainly talking old school rock and pop but some of my favourite bass parts comes from the likes of Paul McCartney, Sting, John Paul Jones, Roger Waters, Mark Hoppus, Mike Dirnt. When I record (im more of guitarist) I always try to go with a pick because thats the tone I want, P bass with pick > tube amp and di blended.
Exactly. I love dub bass. It's horses for courses. I just notice lots of pops and slaps in a song rarely results in seminal hits on the underground or mainstream.
Big fat YES TO FLATWOUNDS from this bass player! As for pick vs fingers, I just do which ever suits the song best. Usually works! Glenn Fricker is the only person on Earth who likes the sound of brand new roundwound bass strings.
Dunno I grew up with Primus, I get what you're saying, but this is true for every instrument, know you're place and know when to shine. No one wants constant blast beats either, but occasionally we do want some flash in songs. Listen to some sly and the family Stone too, slap can work
After watching your video, I'm glad I never learned how to play with my fingers. I started out on the bass then moved to guitar then to drums. I play very little with my fingers when recording my original music. I do enjoy the sound when you play with your fingers on some songs but that's really rare for me.
I used to play with a pick and am able to do it now, if the situation/the song needs it. I play three finger fingerstyle, learned it in the 1990's from Billy Sheehan Instruction videos. I like this more, because I am able to be more dynamic and bring more nuances of tone into my playing. I am also playing a good slapp bass, but don't slap regularly - maybe a bit, when I have to play a bass solo. I have students, and I teach them that there is no wrong or right, when it comes to playing the bass. If you want to use a pick, use it. If you want to use your fingers, use them. If you want to slap, it is OK, but don't overdo it. It is showing off with the bass and does not work with heavy music. You forgot to mention James Jamerson, the man that fights Carol Kaye as the most recorded bass player. He used only one finger, what gave him the name "The Hook". Think about Frank Bello (Anthrax) and David Ellefson (Megadeath). Ellefson plays with the pick, Bello is a finger style player. So does Steve Harris of Iron Maiden and Bryan Beller of Dethklock, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai and so on. He plays fingerstyle. As I said before, there is no right or wrong. But there are a lot of real fast playing bass players that play fingerstyle. Sure I know lots of heavy bass players that use a pick, at least as much as fingerstyle players. Carol Kaye is a guitarist that picked up the bass as there was no bassplayer available. She made her way through the music industry and was the trendsetter of kinda hearable basstone in times, when bass used to be "this rumbling thing in the background of the band". And when a car or home radio was not able to produce bass tones we are used to nowadays. Think of it like this: back I in the days of Motown Records the President of the company had a crappy tape machine, and he put it into an empty tin paper basket. When the sound of the recording still was decent, he gave the recording his ok. You see, the desired tone was different back in this days.
Yep I did say finger style is great in the video when I talked about the chain/Fleetwood Mac etc. It's the slapping aspect I zoomed in on as a failed model vs trad pick etc. When you get to a point like John Entwistle he would still mute the bass usually with eq and tone controls etc despite his fingers being like wodden mallets. Most of the players you mentioned don't have the classic slap and pop attack etc on thier hits. Eg Billy Sheehan's hits have usually been subdued like Be With You etc. The bass players you mentioned don't have many hits. Even famous slappers like Flea's biggest hits are subdued bass like Under The Bridge etc. Great post btw. Horses for courses. Steve Harris is a beast. No slaps and all crazy finger style. Love it. You may like this guitar video I did on early Maiden th-cam.com/video/X-DUIUyyNuM/w-d-xo.html
Argh. The Fleetwood Mac riff is the the bass playing equivalent of the guitarist who plays the Sweet Child O' Mine riff... Ignoring that, as a bass player, I totally agree with you. So much snobbery from other bass players about playing with fingers vs plectrum. Especially metal bassists. Whatever works for you is fine. If you get something that sounds good out of the technique you're comfortable with, that's the way forward.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE When I did a popular music BTEC at Walsall College of Art (which I failed), playing this was one of the cardinal sins. This was just because you heard it so very very often.
Calling shenanigans on this. How can beardless bassist possibly be your brother? No beard? Come on now. In all seriousness though, the other thing that makes me give bass and guitar forums, and even some non-professional demo vids the stink eye, is when they insist on playing everything with the amp settings flat. Nobody actually plays that way! Maybe you walk into a music store, plug in and play a minute to get a feel for it, but after that, you go twisting knobs for a sound you like. This insistence on "hearing the true tone" of the bass through the amp is maddening! It's not an acoustic instrument, the amp is half the sound! It would be like unplugging 3 speakers from the Marshall 4x12 so you can hear the true sound of the cab. Freaking stupid.
I've been playing bass for two years now, completely self-taught. Back in the day, I spent something like 15 years playing woodwind instruments school bands, so using fingers to hit specific notes felt immediately natural and I made very quick progress with finger-style bass (haven't done any slap though). On the other hand, I've tried to also learn to play with a pick and it's a fucking disaster. Complete pile of fail and discouragement.
Finger style is great. Check out Entwistle etc. It's the slapping and popping constantly that is overdone imo. Even notorious Slappers like Red Hot Chilli Peppers... Most of their hits were mellower finger style like Under The Bridge. More muted.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE Oh for sure. Geezer is kind of my #1 bass hero, and he of course plays finger style. I guess the distinction is that the technique of slapping/popping itself, as you point out, doesn't lend itself to the bass doing its proper role in the context of a band... ...unless you're Primus and the bass is essentially the lead instrument.
@@StephenBecker do what feels best for you but I would definitely get some facility on using a pick and some slapping chops in their too. Do you need to be Victor Wooten? No but definitely try to learn some basic stuff. Check out guys like Larry Graham for Slapping and bassists like Bob Daisley who played on the early Ozzy stuff for some great pick playing
@@RonnieThrillsap yeah, I'm familiar with Daisley's work. Excellent stuff! Reason I picked up bass was that I kind of realized I missed playing music after about 15 years of not touching an instrument, my kids were learning to play guitar, and so I thought why don't I do something at the same time? I don't really have aspirations of being in a band or anything. Just happy to play along with songs I like when I get home from work, and maybe have an occasional jam with some local folks. I'm not sure spending the time I'd need to get my pick chops up is worth the effort for that.
Cliff Williams, quality bassist! You were saying about everyone staying in their lane, now there's one dude who definitely didn't cut anyone up, rockin! 👍
Didn't Cliff wear a wrist brace too at some point? Plus all the plasters too! (maybe just watched let there be rock too many times!) Totally agree about putting songwriting above technique, let's have less of the vanilla sausage of sameness ha ha!
Every tech is a tool, picks, fingers, slap, but everything you do as a bass player, must and should be used for one thing: To serve the song. That's what i've been heard say it from many great pro modern/classic bass players as Billy Sheehan and Víctor Wooten to less known people on many interviews and clinics. And of course, there is the matter about the tone, as you show in your playing here👍...cos not all the people, have full control over things around a band as Steve Harris or Thunder fingers😒
Best bass Video yet. 💯% agree I respect bass Wank, but it won't get you anywhere! A bass player about 15 years a fingers or pick guy (song dependant) Always flatwounds. Now where do I line up for my women, drugs and money????
When I listen to Iron Maiden, Sabbath, Primus, Korn, Chili Peppers and all the other bands popular for the bass even Motorhead. It's not about how they can show off or be the center of it all. They always think about complementing the music and playing the same music as their band mates. And most of them know how to use different techniques.
Having high levels of technicality means you are on a level to ALLOW yourself the opportunity to bring these things. Using sparingly. When the technicality becomes an ornament to your tools of writing it can become more than those who are unable to pull these things off. Less black-and-white perspective in that case would be good :) Another good example was Prince. A great bass player, but he knew when to curb his chops. 8:16 I could say the same about Lee Sklar. He was on hundreds of the most famous records. And how often did he use a pick on those?
@@CIRCLEOFTONE I'm not sure I can bear this responsibility and commitment! Also be careful what you wish for :D But yeah, the big issue and difficulty is to find something that hasn't been done before. All the "easy hooks" have already been taken, which is exactly the reason why we never get "those classics" any more. Because we can't. That birthed the requirement for technicality to "one-up" the stages in certain genres, while others just stayed put with their copypaste nature. A LOT of electronic music still continues the same beaten path, but the same can be said for A LOT of band-music. Which is also why we got such a blend of many genres, as this also is a way to keep things fresh. What also keeps things fresh though is to look past one's own borders. Hebrew folk rap is a thing, and it's not that bad at all. Balkan and Indian music has an entirely different approach to rhythm and notes altogether. For some it's "too out there", for others it's exactly what they need. See Mattias Ia Eklundh and bringing Konnakol into metal. I never could get into most of the blues and nowadays can't stand it to a fault because it's the same god damn thing over and over again. It's a great tool to jam, and I value the movement that blues was and for WHAT it was at the time. I just rather learn songs and find a common denominator if I want to play with people together, if they have no original songs and do not want to or can not learn my songs. There is also a lot of rose-tinted hypocrisy all over the place. The same people who said that today's pop music is bad because it's all "vocals and drums" are often the same people who enjoyed songs from back in the days which essentially were... vocals and drums. It's just the soundscape is different and the style of singing is. The same people who say "there are no guitar heroes any more" are the same people who are stuck with their Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton, because they do not LOOK for what is current. The same people who say guitar is dead in music are the ones who look only at Gibson and Fender companies and how they fare, and are the same ones that still look for "their known sound" in music. The guitar is alive and well, it's just used differently. The same goes for bass slapping. As I said, it's alive and well if used SPARINGLY and WITH INTENT instead of just slapptapping all over the place all the time.
Nah there are many moving cogs on why rock/metal is in the toilet when it comes to the general public. I go over some of them here th-cam.com/video/YCoqAjrGOo8/w-d-xo.html
Slapping is more like circus attraction to me. It is here to amaze the audience, but it is a rare case that really contributes to music. Everything played with that technique may be played with the pick or ordinary finger style (if it's a good line). Louis Johnson, some Mark King stuff, maybe, and that's all. Even great Bernard Edwards often play his parts with the pick. All others... just a gymnastic. Attractive, but no music, just percussive effects. And for that, I like drums more. Like I said before, everything you can do with fingers or with slap technique you can do with the pick too. The only downside to pick is... you can very easy drop them and lose, so you must have many of them and in all places :)
There are always outliers. But Metallica went huge on the black album which was Jason with a pick. Geezer and Harris are not exactly Slappers, pluckers and poppers though which this vid is dedicated to. I did say finger style is fine. I attempted the Geezer style here th-cam.com/video/C-yaJjGbPY8/w-d-xo.html
@@CIRCLEOFTONE tbh I don't like slap bass at all but I can appreciate a good slap bass player. My point was pick & finger style are both fine in metal. I personally feel finger style gives you more scope & feel but a pick makes speed easier.
All these techniques are valuable and cool and useful. Why not learn to use them all and expand your palate as much as possible? Slap, pick, finger, etc all serve purposes in bands and music that people know and love. Plus alot of 80>present rnb and pop use synth bass sounds that emulate slap and pop so thats incredibly necessary for say, luther vandross and aaliyah styled music. Double thumping shows up in metal as an alternative to using a pick and its basically slapping but all thumb.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE thats my point though. Alot of hits make use a soooo many techniques and sounds that its ridiculous to say one is more or less important. They all show up, so shouldnt the arguement be "diversify yourself to be as capable as you may need to be" and not "slap is useless, just use a pick cause this range of songs *sometimes* made active use of it"? Think of the motown songs with just fingerstyle, the 70s/80s funk that used slap so prevelantly or 90s metal using a pick....like just learn how to be as functional as you can be cause why not, ya know.
I agree with almost - not all - of what you're saying. I play bass and as I've got better you actually learn what not to play. Give me the groove any day!
Thank you! Honestly I think it takes more talent to write a song than it does to slap and pop and all that horse shit that nobody wants to listen to. Same with these new age guitar shreaders. Write songs.
The best bass solos of all time were both played by Lemmy. No1. The solo in Stay Clean with motorhead and No2 the bass solo in Time we left the world today by Hawkwind. Fucking genius!
So I have been playing bass for 20 years now and there is only one universal truth about bass; people will forever argue about how a REAL bass player hits the strings.... that and the lack of string changing. It is beyond tiresome. Been playing with a pick the whole time and I cannot even count how many times some old fuck has said "you should play with fingers like a TRVE bassist!!!!!" It is almost as annoying as bass snobs saying that all bass players should use a compressor. Side bar: Having hair hanging off the end of your bass is only annoying because it just reminds me of people who cannot string a bass properly. ;)
I live in Philadelphia, PA and my band is in need of a bass player. We are like a cross between Helmet, 311 and the Stray Cats. Let me know if your bro is interested in reinventing himself. We can definitely work something out!
I agree with your view on slap, to me it's a party piece that you can use in the right place to really add to a song. Lots of the old school slap players like Marcus Miller and Larry Graham used it to great effect but obviously you can go over the top. You do see some slap lines in modern pop music too like Bruno Mars for example. To me it's not to be relied on to make the song what it is but it's a nice trick to throw in. To me pick, fingers, and slap are all just skills you need in your locker. For me it's all about fingerstyle but I can use a pick if needed (Motorhead!). If you play a lot of jazz or funk you can probably make a living playing slap but like you said it's unlikely. I think your commentary on paying the bills and making a living is less about your technique specifically and what you do with your hands, and more about your style of play. If you hold down a groove well and don't overplay then the money will pour in.
Finger style works ok on slow stuff but for metal, beating the fuck out of the bass sounds best. Plus big ass picks sound great. I was using some an iPhone tool that looks like a thick pick.
Because paola and corporatism didn't tell you to like it via repetition and subniminal pushes. Plus it's okayish and I'm not attractive. th-cam.com/video/dQoQgpMooyY/w-d-xo.html
@@CIRCLEOFTONE The Ox is famous to be the man who made Rotosound invent the Superwound roundwound strings, with only the naked core wire to have contact with the saddles of the bridge, to have a more brilliant tone with lots of overtones.
Great video! But there's a reason metallica sounds heavier with finger style players, Chuck Dukowski made black flag sound so heavy, and my all-time favorite Geezer butler filled out Sabbath! Nomatter your technique the fundamental of the note and filling out the mix is 100% more important than "cutting through" the mix. If you have a fat dead tone you can play more interesting melodic parts and not crowd out evertone else. COT RULEZ!
I've play bass for 14 years and I prefer slap/fingerstyle, however, a pick has its place for sure. Theres no replacement for the attack you get in the studio from a pick
@@CIRCLEOFTONE I play with my fingers the majority of the time but even alot of players who use their fingers model their style after pick style of playing. Geezer butler and Geddy Lee are perfect examples. I give people hell that play with a pick unless they are actually trying to stand out a bit instead if hiding in the background.
I play fingerstyle not for any reason other than it's the way I play best. I don't do it to show off, I do it because it's easier for me and if I did use a pick my music would suffer.
Finger style is fine. It's just the overly busy runs plucks, slaps and pops are not vibed by the general public. It's more of a bass player fanbase that likes it.
from what i can tell, the whole thing about davie504 hating picks seems to be nothing more than a weird meme, maybe a subtle jab at the bass elitists who are like that. i've actually seen a few videos of him playing with picks (such as his roundabout cover). however, most of his fans are not bass players and so they just assume that playing bass with a pick is just an "easy shortcut" or whatever, but it really isn't. I am a bassist, I play with both pick and finger depending on the song and the tone I want to achieve, and i wouldn't say one is easier than the other. they are just different. slapping definitely takes some practice, but in the end of the day, it is just one of the many techniques for playing bass. it can be really effective in certain songs and genres (such as funk), but it doesn't work with every song. slap bass works really well on, for example, toto's rosanna. however, it would just sound weird and out of place in songs like i saw her standing there, for example.
Yep he's funny as hell and works the angle and it's good satire. But the amount of serious pushback I get for using a pick when I play bass is what I'm pointing at.
The warning everyone needs to hear . I fear it's too late, and the seed is sewn. For me it isnt even about working doing bass as a living, but no-one is pushing the boundaries anymore. Vanilla sausage, anyone?
@@freq9939 the boundary in this case is the self imposed nonsense people say and do. The "jaco only needed 4" and that if you use a pick you arent a "real" bassist. All boundaries. Look what happens when people break them: John Entwistle, constantly pushed the boundaries of tone, people like Billy Sheehan pushed the limits of speed, while still keeping a groove. Everyone seems so scared to make a mistake, they're polishing the humanity out of music and making it a banal unlistenable vanilla sausage
I'm more fingers now that my grip on plectrums turned to shite with arthritis and carpal tunnel. Such a small number of tunes our cover band do has slapping that I never tried to get beyond not-even-on-bottom-rung. It took me twenty years to stop-sticking-to-root-note, I'm never going to slap. Davie504's channel is funny at times though.
I don't think Davie fell for any trap. Obviously he is very successful with what he does. And what I find most important: He makes the Bass interesting for a lot of young people. The whole slap stuff is a meme. Bass has the reputation of being almost irrelevant in a Rock Band context. Davie shows people that Bass can be far more than just the thing that strictly accompanies with the root notes of what the guitar is playing. It is not just the alternative instrument for people that are too lazy to learn to play the guitar properly. Having said that, I still agree with your general sentiment. If you wanna make it with music you can't just stick to your skills on one particular thing anymore. While being a session musician is still a thing for some people, you should also learn composition and production techniques while also keeping in mind that the market is pretty much saturated anyway.
I play bass and guitar I think you should learn alot of different techniques to express yourself in a MUSICAL way -the song matters. I remember when you said the internet made music a coffee shop vibe and I totally agree....where are the rockstars
I'm a punk/noise rock freak, so I've always been a pick player. Flipper, Nirvana, Rollins Band, Jesus Lizard, all that overdriven riffy stuff. It's always so basic but so fun and groovy.
you know, I'm glad someone else is against slap. I've never liked the sound, as soon as you're tappy slapping, you're not holding the low end, and it's no longer a bass.
I like the control of the fingers but advanced slap bass really has to be done by a guy who will hide in the background who will never be a front man, if you want it all the time. I think of Earth Wimd and Fire or Cool and the Gang. They had frontmen bassists but they are only two. Even Flea stands at the back.
You seem like a nice dude Cot. And you make a good point. You should also include the over flowery Metal music you champion so much. You and your brother have painted yourselves into a corner of very nich public appeal. Nothing wrong with it if that's your cup of tea, but not everyone likes 10 sugars.
Flowery metal I champion? I've done everything from Raketkanon to Godflesh to INXS and Adam and the Ants. The previous video I did was Napalm Death A side bass. th-cam.com/video/glNlV6E53-E/w-d-xo.html
Here's the "thing" M king did something with the slap thing. Harris had his gallop going on. Karn had his thing too and so did all the great bass players out there, Jameson, Dunn, Kaye etc. No one had a hit (imho) without a great bass line. Same too with your "end of the world zombie apocalypse metal noise" Good Music is art, Simon Cowell makes money, metal invokes the demon. I guess it's just a matter who you chose to be your dance partner.
Harris didn't slap. I said finger bass is fine and he used flatwounds too. You'd may like this video I did. Did you watch my video? I said songwriting it's key for most of it. Maiden had anthemic choruses etc th-cam.com/video/X-DUIUyyNuM/w-d-xo.html
if you'll do bass, would love you to mess around with the tones of a rick, it sounds humongous on some records, and then completely varies on others, pls unveil its mystery cap'n neckwool : D
Yep I need one in my life. If anyone want's to loan me one (I'm in Florida) let me know. My neck beard is tingling. I bust out a bit of Lemmy in this video. hehe.
I kind of agree in the larger sense, but I don't understand the angle you've specifically taken: the emphasis on the '"hits" make right' argument, especially coming from a channel that's covered Napalm Death and other largely underground music. Your same argument can be used to say "Death Metal vocalists, It's a fact: Statistics demonstrate that growled vocals never make "hits" therefore are waste of time." To me this is a strange case to make when one could simply say: Dave Ellefson. The end.
I'm a pick player, but musicians should use/do whatever the hell they want. If they "suck" or are doing it "wrong" in someone else's opinion it doesn't matter at all. If you don't like something you're not forced to listen to it. There's way too much vomiting of rules or "recipes" for views or self promotion everywhere.
Honestly I don't quite like the video and don't think it's very helpful to beginners as well. Circle of Tone has this ongoing theme of making a fair point but then just completely missing out on everything else. Here are some points I think are very much over the top: 1) Saying that you shouldn't slap is about as good of an advice as telling bass players not to use a pick. It's a technique that has it's place like all techniques have. 2) Slapping is often used by "solo artists" like Marcus Miller, Victor Wooten, Wojitek Pilichowski, Lary Graham or even Davie504. So it makes perfect sense for him to do it. And he is quite successful with it. By the way I am not even a fan of him mainly due to his memes, but that's not the point here. 3) Telling musicians to "stay in their lane" is not really "rock n roll". If not for roundwounds and agressive tones we wouldn't have 90% of rock and metal tones we have today. 4) Depending on the genre being able to slap can come in quite handy. If you wanna play in a funk band for example. Yes, slapping can be overused but so can every other technique as well. 5) In this video you make it sound like nearly every song was recorded with flatwounds and a pick which just isn't true. Yes back in 60s it was, but maybe because roundwound strings weren't even invented until 63 has something to do with it. 6) And lastly the argument of not getting anywhere with slapping. To me it sounds like your saying: "if you write good music you will be successful and if you slap you won't". I mean sadly being successful nowaydays depends on way more then just writing good music. But being able to slap or be good at your instrument obviously is no hurdle ever. Just make the music you wanna make. And if you wanna make the big money better not even pick up the bass and go for computer generated music instead. To sum it up: flatwounds with pick sound great so do roundwounds with fingers and slapping and reverse. Do what you wanna make and make it sound good!
I think the whole scene needs a slap. Songwriting has been overtaken by either trying to be as primitive or brutal or technical as possible. Big tone is all the rage and now songwriting is an afterthought. I don't give a shit if it rubs people up the wrong way. The scene is DYING. We need some hard truths.
Its more a matter of genre and time period. Did bass players in rock in the late 60s use a pick? I doubt it because of their blues and jazz style influences. What about modern jazz? You'll never waste your time slapping a bass my friend `~`.
60's was the main period of pick. You shoukd watch the whole video. Wrecking crew staple. Nobody listens to modern jazz. It's an oxymoron at this point.
Roundwounds and picks don't mix well, too much noises. If you want to play with a pick then flatwounds would be ideal but at the expense of the benefits of roundwounds.
I’m a bass player, like to slap, but not good at it. But I totally get you! Love to play with my fingers and my pick, serving the band. Using Roundwounds and flatwounds, depending on the song or project :)
So bass players should play a certain way because they wont ever be popular? that's what it sounds like your saying. If I played bass and saw this, it would make me want to play slap even more. Davie does slap bass more of as a novelty, I don't think he is interested in making a band or writing radio hits.
What he is saying is that if you wanna play bass in a band you should play in whatever way you make the band sound the best and unfortunately that's rarely slapping.
Last time someone put that many words in my mouth, I was eating alphabetti spaghetti. Davie is the full package when it comes to bass. He's funny as fuck too.
Davie504 fell into his own slap meme persona, but in regards to writing, he does have a few good videos with catchy disco-like lines that shows he is capable.
What`s most important for me is that apart from being great bass player, he also writes and records music. There are many YT shredders just for being YT shredders, nothing more comes out of it.
I've spent time learning the Victor Wooten technique, I've tried to play Marcus Miller's stuff, etc. At the end of the day, it boils down to a 4-string bass and a pick - since I've discovered that 3 years ago I haven't looked back. It's good to have that fiddly stuff in your arsenal, but it doesn't write songs. If anyone needs a definition of what the bass does, all I'll say is GODFLESH.
I agree. Slap bass is kinda like guitar shredding. There a place for hard parts and for simple parts. Look at Eddie Van Halen, one of bigger inspirations for many guitarists. Van Halen songs aren't 100 % mindless fast tapping, there are places for tapping and there are simple riffs, hooks, etc., people enjoy the repeating easy hook, people enjoy the complicated fast solo, and then it's time for the chorus again.
I think that some forget that no matter if you use a pick, play finger style and or use round or flat wound strings it just a tool to make music. It's how you connect with your listener that truly matters. Your are right some are dead setting against using a pick. As you stated the greats all used one.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE did Carol Kaye play on Frank Sinatra sessions as well. I no she did a TV theme songs I believe Streets of San Francisco was one of them could be mistaken.
So your saying that James Jamerson and THE HOOK, John Paul Jones,Geezer Butler. I could go on all day NONE OF THEM USE A PICK,Vic Wooten,Marcus Miller,, Stanley Clark ,mostly slappers , ALL GREATS ,NONE USE A PICK then there's Geddy Lee who does it except use a pick. The whole reason I EVER picked up the bass is because my dad was a sound guy for some pretty big acts in the 80s (mostly country some rock) I always wondered why one guitar was bigger had Les strings and played with fingers. I think your assessment is to closed minded, What about Flea? Slap bass is still pretty new , considering the bass itself is only 60 years old so to say most hits aren't slap is an unfair assessment ,today's music isn't the same industry as when Carol Kaye was in it,you want to see someone full of themselves? Carol DEFINITELY is,watch some of her more recent vids. Give it another 69years and revisit this question,I think your answer will be different. Most of what I listen to for new music is either slap or fingerstyle DEFINITELY no picks. Bass coming into it's own as something more than just a rhythm instrument using ALL techniques is necessary but a pick is definitely the least,I can get a picked sound with my fingers ,you can't get a good LEAD bass tone without slapping. Plus the more you know the more your worth
The first lot you mentioned were finger players. I'm focusing more on the busy Slappers if you watch the video. Speaking of which, how many hit singles has Wooten, Miller etc had? You could ask 10,000 people in an airport and nobody will be able sing you a single riff from any of them. That is my point.
At the other end of the spectrum to slapping as a horrible group think phenomenon is the massive trend to go into precision bass only, strictly with flatwounds (and a tortoise pickguard of course), and play so deeply and so shroudedly in the pocket that no one knows that you and the bass guitar exist and no one can tell what notes you're playing. It's the other extreme to the slap bass which is heard loud and crystal clear, this other extreme yeah, certainly it can be felt but it's a mush sonically to the listener's ear because no one can understand what you're playing. There needs to be a balance between articulation and the viscerally felt side of the bass that can very easily turn into a mud fest.
Just look at the successful bassists and how many of them slap. If you asked most rock fans for their 10 favorite bassists how many of them would be slappers? Maybe Les and Flea. If they’re really into music they might know Victor Wooten, but he probably won’t be in their 10.
Fleas biggest hits were slow and mostly finger style like Under the bridge etc. Plus that was in the 90's. Bass and guitar players are in a bubble. I'm not saying slap was never popular. It's just like bongos today. It sounds dated to the new generation. Great songwriting never fails.
Dave Ellefson plays with a pick and he created one of the most recognizable bass tracks in metal music. I can see slap and other crazy techniques as a one time trick in an album to add a flavour or during live performances and show offs but not something that is listenable for the whole time.
Compare an “emotional” Joe Satriani solo with an emotional John Frusciante solo. The technique isn’t all that different. It’s not which technique or style you use, it’s your artistic intuition and self-awareness that makes something work or not. Just listen to smooth jazz radio and you’ll hear nothing but cheesy slap (and a lot of Satriani-esque guitar). There are good slap songs out there, but a little bit goes a long way.
So true! There`s a great finnish bassist Jan Olof Strandberg. I love his album Great Moments, but the saddest thing is in terms of recognition and internet is like he wouldn`t exist, and this album i have only because it was a bonus when you bought a bass from Mayones (veeeery long ago, when You didn`t need to bust a few banks to buy one :D). And about Wojtek Pilichowski, he is also well known session musician for artists and bands that don`t really make use of SLAPP;)
Are Slappers wasting thier talent? Smash unemployment now.
Haha lol
my first guitar was a cheapo kay bass.it came with 2 felt plectrums....and this was 79.
the bassline to shot by both sides by magazine...........
@@rikantony6571 felt? Very cool. I have a Kay amp from that era, perhaps, earlier. Check it out: th-cam.com/video/fXTPlc0rKL8/w-d-xo.html
@@CIRCLEOFTONE wished i kept the plecs but they gave that that sound..that motown thud.alas i was into punk n motorhead n that little kay sounded a bit rickenbakerish so i was away lol...
I think the age of the "TH-cam Musician" has painted a "wrong" picture of music and musicianship. Music has shifted to this dress to impress over the top point of virtue. Instead of writing music for other people to enjoy these master slappers and shredders are just showing off. And that just fucks with me, music and playing any instrument shouldn't be a Sport. It's about creating emotion and energy and not some wank fest à la "Look how fast I can play!"
Yep. Writing is an afterthought. We need to work on hooks, anthemic choruses, verses and stuff you can wave a beer to. Tone chasing and technique have done a lot of damage to the scene. I talk about it more here: th-cam.com/video/YCoqAjrGOo8/w-d-xo.html
Agreed, musicianship should never take precedence over songwriting.
Thank you! I have felt this way for years, glad i'm not the only one who feels this way.
Sounds like you're describing hair metal, great players awful songs, I love EVHs solos (especially on beat it), but I'd never listen to a van Halen song, cheesey rubbish
@Beam Out I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Any way record sales don't mean a thing, or Justin Beiber is better than VH. Name one van halen song to convert me. Not panama, hot for teacher, aint talking about love as I know all those. I do like Chicken foot though, not for Satch especially, but sammy hager is great
This is probably the reason why rock is dead. Everyone wants to be famous and sell out arenas but nobody wants to make music, be in a band or even get out of their fucking bedroom. Honestly any level of skill above Eddie Van Halen is too much to be popular. Eddie is the most technical you can be and maintain rockstar status and Eddie is still an absolute genius of songwriting.
Eddie's hooks, songwriting and ass shaking swagger in his music was amazing. Add to that the skill on top... Unstoppable.
@@CIRCLEOFTONEagreed. he's Also the only guitarist who can have busy guitar parts without distracting you from the song. That's why he's the greatest ever, in my opinion of course.
Chris Squire and Dave Ellefson play(ed) with picks and they wrote some of the most memorable bass lines of all time.
Yep. As it happens I just did another Megadeth vid. It should be live at noon.
Simple caveman riffs that take no thought or technique gets people going way harder than any whiddly whiddly lick ever has.
Agreed. Rock and metal is spit and sawdust but it's turned into flight of the bumblebee. Recorded half speed and snapped to a grid.
No thought is kinda pushing it. You gotta have a good ear to put together interesting riffs, even if they are just a few notes.
Primus
@@comfy_21771 Have not been relevant for 30 years. Even then in the grand scheme of things they were never that big.
I feel like it's pretty basic: How many great songwriters are dying to hire a lead bass player? What song hits hard that also has a high tuned/eq'd bass that "cuts through the mix"? Slap bass can be great... in funk music. ie, music that also has a piano, synth, or horns to cover the low end. sometimes all of the above. But somethings got to play actual bass frequencies in a band... preferably the bassist.
I once recorded a metal band were the bass player was a lead bass player fancy guy type who eq'd all the bass frequencies out of his tone until it was all attack and the drummer did the same thing to his kick drum. (i suspect at the bassists suggestion) when i tried to tell them the problem with this while trying to make a heavy drop tuned metal groove album, everybody looked at me like i was crazy and didn't know what i was doing, then proceeded not to listen to anything else i said after that point. it was pretty amazing. and by amazing i mean a nightmare. The only thing that had bass was the guitar. lol. It was like trying to mix And Justice For All... if there was no bass in the kick drum either.
Yep. The song is key.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE always about the song, and the emotion/experience of that song. bring your audience real emotions, and you'll actually have one. (an audience that is. can't help y'all robots put technique aside and learn vulnerability). ;)
Late to the party, but I would love to hear that mess of a band with my own ears
Great song at the beginning, did you make it?
Les Claypool is the only bassist I could tolerate "playing on that level" in a popular genre. And even he twisted it in such a way where it worked FOR the music and the band.
Yep. There are a handful of outliers but they have one thing on common....they could write songs with hooks and choruses like Les. Les's verses were gold. My dad actually bought me sailing the seas of cheese back in the day for me to check out.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE Definitely check out his work with the Lennon Claypool Delirium.
Les is a killer song writer for sure. He would play complex riffs but a lot of songs only have one or 2 riffs in it
Love the outro song you did. Did you invent that?
Yep. Check out my fuzz war vid O.
I can't imagine a lot of classic David Ellefson bass lines without a pick
Yep. I have a crack at it here but I lack the attack. th-cam.com/video/bOOhNPZvV80/w-d-xo.html
Shout out to Bobby Vega who is an amazing pick player. Any bassist worth their salt should have chops from all the various techniques but should know when to use them and when not to
1:00 I love that part love the arpeggiation with the use of base chords I don’t think that’s Done enough in music I’ve always love those sounds.
Really interesting video, when I hear these type of bass players, I always feel where’s the low end! They put themselves up front and centre in the mix, where the guitars should be....hold the bottom end together!✌️
Yep. It's good to show off now and then but don't writing is key.
There aren't many modern records with slap anyway. No one hasn't even cared about bass in decades. Yes there are exceptions but thats the rule. Also all professional recording bassists no not to slap unless they are told to.
You're 100% right. Gravitated away from this style immediately once I wasn't a fourteen year old wanker. It works in some situations but is by and large unpleasant to listen to. It's a neat trick.
Slap bass rules!! But I get your point.
Yeear, you are so right,
It's about writing good songs.
Not showing off for bass nerds.
If you go on a desert island , would you pick a good song or a youtuber solo to listen to?
Thanks man, you do great job here.
I see it as it’s up to the bass player personally. My father is an amazing slapper but he does play with a pick and fingers as well. It’s up to him or her to choose how they want to play
The only bass players I really like on a more technical level are Cliff Burton, Les Claypool, and Jaco. When I started playing bass (even as a guitarist) I thought I had to play crazy slap salad stuff and noodly sounding solos to be good. Bass is really best at what you described in this video with maybe the odd solo every once in awhile, I'm glad I reached that conclusion before I even watched this. I have a new appreciation for the instrument.
Good taste. Jaco is such a strange tragic story.
The thing is, you can use your fingers and be busy and still fit in the pocket. Duck Dunn is probably my favorite bass player, and he has some really nice licks that move around but he always occupies his own sonic space and supports the song instead of being the focus. And wouldn’t you know it, he used flatwounds.
Yep. There is a place for hooks etc.
Didn't slap have its peak on the Seinfeld theme song...
Brutal.
Even that was done on a piano 😰
Yup, that was done on a synth
I like the bassists that can keep it simple and don’t try too show off
I have played as much bass as guitar, oddly I absolutely never played with a pick until recently. I went on a wrecking crew kick, put a sponge by the bridge, and bought a heavy ass pick. Fun stuff. Another toy for me, that is how I look at.it. His point about playing for others is dead on. I am super consistent with the pick. Proper mechanics are key.
17:11 I feel the same thing about Jazz the only people that be going to those jazz gigs predominantly are other Jazz players not to mention I think a huge reason why jazz is relevant is because of what it can teach other than that I have only ran into a few folks in my life that actually appreciate jazz and not become bored to death.
Exactly. It's a bubble. Guitarists are also in a bubble where they think whatever guitar based TH-cam channel is popular etc. It's jazz. The music buying, loving public has moved on.
I'm just getting into bass (guitarist) ... I really needed this video xD
I got sucked into the whole "play with your fingers to get out of the guitarist mindset"-thing and I'm hating it, though before seeing this I guess I was too stubborn to admit it ...
Thank you!
I like fairly upfront bass that cuts through and most of that bass is picked becuase picked bass cuts through in a mix so much better, some genres like dub of course work way better with that thumpy warm bass but for a bit more attack and less wooly sustain a pick if needed. I'm mainly talking old school rock and pop but some of my favourite bass parts comes from the likes of Paul McCartney, Sting, John Paul Jones, Roger Waters, Mark Hoppus, Mike Dirnt. When I record (im more of guitarist) I always try to go with a pick because thats the tone I want, P bass with pick > tube amp and di blended.
Exactly. I love dub bass. It's horses for courses. I just notice lots of pops and slaps in a song rarely results in seminal hits on the underground or mainstream.
Big fat YES TO FLATWOUNDS from this bass player!
As for pick vs fingers, I just do which ever suits the song best. Usually works!
Glenn Fricker is the only person on Earth who likes the sound of brand new roundwound bass strings.
@Toxic Potato Might have been a joke :-) I do love flats, though!
Dunno I grew up with Primus, I get what you're saying, but this is true for every instrument, know you're place and know when to shine. No one wants constant blast beats either, but occasionally we do want some flash in songs. Listen to some sly and the family Stone too, slap can work
There are always outliers.
After watching your video, I'm glad I never learned how to play with my fingers. I started out on the bass then moved to guitar then to drums. I play very little with my fingers when recording my original music. I do enjoy the sound when you play with your fingers on some songs but that's really rare for me.
I used to play with a pick and am able to do it now, if the situation/the song needs it. I play three finger fingerstyle, learned it in the 1990's from Billy Sheehan Instruction videos. I like this more, because I am able to be more dynamic and bring more nuances of tone into my playing.
I am also playing a good slapp bass, but don't slap regularly - maybe a bit, when I have to play a bass solo.
I have students, and I teach them that there is no wrong or right, when it comes to playing the bass. If you want to use a pick, use it. If you want to use your fingers, use them. If you want to slap, it is OK, but don't overdo it. It is showing off with the bass and does not work with heavy music.
You forgot to mention James Jamerson, the man that fights Carol Kaye as the most recorded bass player. He used only one finger, what gave him the name "The Hook".
Think about Frank Bello (Anthrax) and David Ellefson (Megadeath). Ellefson plays with the pick, Bello is a finger style player. So does Steve Harris of Iron Maiden and Bryan Beller of Dethklock, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai and so on. He plays fingerstyle.
As I said before, there is no right or wrong. But there are a lot of real fast playing bass players that play fingerstyle. Sure I know lots of heavy bass players that use a pick, at least as much as fingerstyle players.
Carol Kaye is a guitarist that picked up the bass as there was no bassplayer available. She made her way through the music industry and was the trendsetter of kinda hearable basstone in times, when bass used to be "this rumbling thing in the background of the band". And when a car or home radio was not able to produce bass tones we are used to nowadays.
Think of it like this: back I in the days of Motown Records the President of the company had a crappy tape machine, and he put it into an empty tin paper basket. When the sound of the recording still was decent, he gave the recording his ok. You see, the desired tone was different back in this days.
Yep I did say finger style is great in the video when I talked about the chain/Fleetwood Mac etc. It's the slapping aspect I zoomed in on as a failed model vs trad pick etc. When you get to a point like John Entwistle he would still mute the bass usually with eq and tone controls etc despite his fingers being like wodden mallets.
Most of the players you mentioned don't have the classic slap and pop attack etc on thier hits. Eg Billy Sheehan's hits have usually been subdued like Be With You etc. The bass players you mentioned don't have many hits. Even famous slappers like Flea's biggest hits are subdued bass like Under The Bridge etc. Great post btw. Horses for courses.
Steve Harris is a beast. No slaps and all crazy finger style. Love it. You may like this guitar video I did on early Maiden th-cam.com/video/X-DUIUyyNuM/w-d-xo.html
Love this bass series man!
Gotta do one one the beloved thrash clank!
Perfect! I did that on an old vid th-cam.com/video/y-e-dGcSY1M/w-d-xo.html
CIRCLE OF TONE love your channel man!
Argh. The Fleetwood Mac riff is the the bass playing equivalent of the guitarist who plays the Sweet Child O' Mine riff... Ignoring that, as a bass player, I totally agree with you. So much snobbery from other bass players about playing with fingers vs plectrum. Especially metal bassists. Whatever works for you is fine. If you get something that sounds good out of the technique you're comfortable with, that's the way forward.
Haha. Yeah sorry about that. You could see my grin...could not resist.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE When I did a popular music BTEC at Walsall College of Art (which I failed), playing this was one of the cardinal sins. This was just because you heard it so very very often.
@@barondelararie hehe
slapping is like the vanilla sausage of jazz music, but that's my two cents lol
True.
it's definitely cool as an effect, but like any other effects (especially those damn shimverb clean guitars), the key is to use it sparingly
Calling shenanigans on this.
How can beardless bassist possibly be your brother?
No beard? Come on now.
In all seriousness though, the other thing that makes me give bass and guitar forums, and even some non-professional demo vids the stink eye, is when they insist on playing everything with the amp settings flat. Nobody actually plays that way! Maybe you walk into a music store, plug in and play a minute to get a feel for it, but after that, you go twisting knobs for a sound you like.
This insistence on "hearing the true tone" of the bass through the amp is maddening! It's not an acoustic instrument, the amp is half the sound! It would be like unplugging 3 speakers from the Marshall 4x12 so you can hear the true sound of the cab. Freaking stupid.
I've been playing bass for two years now, completely self-taught. Back in the day, I spent something like 15 years playing woodwind instruments school bands, so using fingers to hit specific notes felt immediately natural and I made very quick progress with finger-style bass (haven't done any slap though).
On the other hand, I've tried to also learn to play with a pick and it's a fucking disaster. Complete pile of fail and discouragement.
Finger style is great. Check out Entwistle etc. It's the slapping and popping constantly that is overdone imo. Even notorious Slappers like Red Hot Chilli Peppers... Most of their hits were mellower finger style like Under The Bridge. More muted.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE Oh for sure. Geezer is kind of my #1 bass hero, and he of course plays finger style. I guess the distinction is that the technique of slapping/popping itself, as you point out, doesn't lend itself to the bass doing its proper role in the context of a band...
...unless you're Primus and the bass is essentially the lead instrument.
@@StephenBecker do what feels best for you but I would definitely get some facility on using a pick and some slapping chops in their too. Do you need to be Victor Wooten? No but definitely try to learn some basic stuff. Check out guys like Larry Graham for Slapping and bassists like Bob Daisley who played on the early Ozzy stuff for some great pick playing
@@RonnieThrillsap yeah, I'm familiar with Daisley's work. Excellent stuff!
Reason I picked up bass was that I kind of realized I missed playing music after about 15 years of not touching an instrument, my kids were learning to play guitar, and so I thought why don't I do something at the same time?
I don't really have aspirations of being in a band or anything. Just happy to play along with songs I like when I get home from work, and maybe have an occasional jam with some local folks. I'm not sure spending the time I'd need to get my pick chops up is worth the effort for that.
Cliff Williams, quality bassist! You were saying about everyone staying in their lane, now there's one dude who definitely didn't cut anyone up, rockin! 👍
Epic. I went down a huge rabbit hole with AC/DC guitar tone spanning 3 videos. th-cam.com/video/P43ACU7zHlc/w-d-xo.html
Didn't Cliff wear a wrist brace too at some point? Plus all the plasters too! (maybe just watched let there be rock too many times!) Totally agree about putting songwriting above technique, let's have less of the vanilla sausage of sameness ha ha!
Every tech is a tool, picks, fingers, slap, but everything you do as a bass player, must and should be used for one thing: To serve the song. That's what i've been heard say it from many great pro modern/classic bass players as Billy Sheehan and Víctor Wooten to less known people on many interviews and clinics. And of course, there is the matter about the tone, as you show in your playing here👍...cos not all the people, have full control over things around a band as Steve Harris or Thunder fingers😒
Best bass Video yet. 💯% agree I respect bass Wank, but it won't get you anywhere! A bass player about 15 years a fingers or pick guy (song dependant) Always flatwounds. Now where do I line up for my women, drugs and money????
Hehe
When I listen to Iron Maiden, Sabbath, Primus, Korn, Chili Peppers and all the other bands popular for the bass even Motorhead. It's not about how they can show off or be the center of it all. They always think about complementing the music and playing the same music as their band mates. And most of them know how to use different techniques.
Yep
Having high levels of technicality means you are on a level to ALLOW yourself the opportunity to bring these things. Using sparingly. When the technicality becomes an ornament to your tools of writing it can become more than those who are unable to pull these things off. Less black-and-white perspective in that case would be good :) Another good example was Prince. A great bass player, but he knew when to curb his chops.
8:16 I could say the same about Lee Sklar. He was on hundreds of the most famous records. And how often did he use a pick on those?
You said the word Prince. Please accept my friendship forever.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE I'm not sure I can bear this responsibility and commitment! Also be careful what you wish for :D
But yeah, the big issue and difficulty is to find something that hasn't been done before. All the "easy hooks" have already been taken, which is exactly the reason why we never get "those classics" any more. Because we can't. That birthed the requirement for technicality to "one-up" the stages in certain genres, while others just stayed put with their copypaste nature. A LOT of electronic music still continues the same beaten path, but the same can be said for A LOT of band-music. Which is also why we got such a blend of many genres, as this also is a way to keep things fresh.
What also keeps things fresh though is to look past one's own borders. Hebrew folk rap is a thing, and it's not that bad at all. Balkan and Indian music has an entirely different approach to rhythm and notes altogether. For some it's "too out there", for others it's exactly what they need. See Mattias Ia Eklundh and bringing Konnakol into metal.
I never could get into most of the blues and nowadays can't stand it to a fault because it's the same god damn thing over and over again. It's a great tool to jam, and I value the movement that blues was and for WHAT it was at the time. I just rather learn songs and find a common denominator if I want to play with people together, if they have no original songs and do not want to or can not learn my songs.
There is also a lot of rose-tinted hypocrisy all over the place. The same people who said that today's pop music is bad because it's all "vocals and drums" are often the same people who enjoyed songs from back in the days which essentially were... vocals and drums. It's just the soundscape is different and the style of singing is.
The same people who say "there are no guitar heroes any more" are the same people who are stuck with their Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton, because they do not LOOK for what is current. The same people who say guitar is dead in music are the ones who look only at Gibson and Fender companies and how they fare, and are the same ones that still look for "their known sound" in music. The guitar is alive and well, it's just used differently. The same goes for bass slapping. As I said, it's alive and well if used SPARINGLY and WITH INTENT instead of just slapptapping all over the place all the time.
Nah there are many moving cogs on why rock/metal is in the toilet when it comes to the general public. I go over some of them here th-cam.com/video/YCoqAjrGOo8/w-d-xo.html
Slapping is more like circus attraction to me. It is here to amaze the audience, but it is a rare case that really contributes to music. Everything played with that technique may be played with the pick or ordinary finger style (if it's a good line). Louis Johnson, some Mark King stuff, maybe, and that's all. Even great Bernard Edwards often play his parts with the pick. All others... just a gymnastic. Attractive, but no music, just percussive effects. And for that, I like drums more. Like I said before, everything you can do with fingers or with slap technique you can do with the pick too. The only downside to pick is... you can very easy drop them and lose, so you must have many of them and in all places :)
@@Djole_NS246 Mark King was a great shout. His mellow laid back songwriting was perfect for the busy bass
Just to say Steve Harris, Cliff Burton, Geezer Butler to name only three do not use plectrums.
I use fingers & pick depending on feel & speed of riff
There are always outliers. But Metallica went huge on the black album which was Jason with a pick. Geezer and Harris are not exactly Slappers, pluckers and poppers though which this vid is dedicated to. I did say finger style is fine. I attempted the Geezer style here th-cam.com/video/C-yaJjGbPY8/w-d-xo.html
@@CIRCLEOFTONE tbh I don't like slap bass at all but I can appreciate a good slap bass player.
My point was pick & finger style are both fine in metal.
I personally feel finger style gives you more scope & feel but a pick makes speed easier.
All these techniques are valuable and cool and useful. Why not learn to use them all and expand your palate as much as possible? Slap, pick, finger, etc all serve purposes in bands and music that people know and love.
Plus alot of 80>present rnb and pop use synth bass sounds that emulate slap and pop so thats incredibly necessary for say, luther vandross and aaliyah styled music. Double thumping shows up in metal as an alternative to using a pick and its basically slapping but all thumb.
Because writing songs and hooks is way more important in the grand scheme of things.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE thats my point though. Alot of hits make use a soooo many techniques and sounds that its ridiculous to say one is more or less important. They all show up, so shouldnt the arguement be "diversify yourself to be as capable as you may need to be" and not "slap is useless, just use a pick cause this range of songs *sometimes* made active use of it"? Think of the motown songs with just fingerstyle, the 70s/80s funk that used slap so prevelantly or 90s metal using a pick....like just learn how to be as functional as you can be cause why not, ya know.
I agree with almost - not all - of what you're saying. I play bass and as I've got better you actually learn what not to play. Give me the groove any day!
Thank you! Honestly I think it takes more talent to write a song than it does to slap and pop and all that horse shit that nobody wants to listen to. Same with these new age guitar shreaders. Write songs.
Yep. That's the biggest issue from a lot of aspects of rock and metal on general.
God bless neck beard god, can't wait for Davie to make a response video on this. Feels like you gonna get your 100 patreons soon
He might get literally thousands of views!
How many records in 2018-2020 have pick style bass ?
24
CIRCLE OF TONE. Please can you share them with me? will be interested in listening to how they fit to the new types of music coming out
The best bass solos of all time were both played by Lemmy. No1. The solo in Stay Clean with motorhead and No2 the bass solo in Time we left the world today by Hawkwind. Fucking genius!
With a heavy heart I agree. Band dynamics are number 1 :)
So I have been playing bass for 20 years now and there is only one universal truth about bass; people will forever argue about how a REAL bass player hits the strings.... that and the lack of string changing. It is beyond tiresome. Been playing with a pick the whole time and I cannot even count how many times some old fuck has said "you should play with fingers like a TRVE bassist!!!!!" It is almost as annoying as bass snobs saying that all bass players should use a compressor.
Side bar: Having hair hanging off the end of your bass is only annoying because it just reminds me of people who cannot string a bass properly. ;)
Haha. Yep.
I live in Philadelphia, PA and my band is in need of a bass player. We are like a cross between Helmet, 311 and the Stray Cats. Let me know if your bro is interested in reinventing himself. We can definitely work something out!
I agree with your view on slap, to me it's a party piece that you can use in the right place to really add to a song. Lots of the old school slap players like Marcus Miller and Larry Graham used it to great effect but obviously you can go over the top. You do see some slap lines in modern pop music too like Bruno Mars for example. To me it's not to be relied on to make the song what it is but it's a nice trick to throw in.
To me pick, fingers, and slap are all just skills you need in your locker. For me it's all about fingerstyle but I can use a pick if needed (Motorhead!). If you play a lot of jazz or funk you can probably make a living playing slap but like you said it's unlikely. I think your commentary on paying the bills and making a living is less about your technique specifically and what you do with your hands, and more about your style of play. If you hold down a groove well and don't overplay then the money will pour in.
Yep. Horses for courses.
Finger style works ok on slow stuff but for metal, beating the fuck out of the bass sounds best. Plus big ass picks sound great. I was using some an iPhone tool that looks like a thick pick.
Why isnt the Band circle of tone featuring the gibbins brothers a Thing?
Because paola and corporatism didn't tell you to like it via repetition and subniminal pushes. Plus it's okayish and I'm not attractive. th-cam.com/video/dQoQgpMooyY/w-d-xo.html
The only thing Peter Steele slapped was the gear shift of a garbage truck.
*Laughs in John Entwistle, Chris Squire, Dee Dee Ramone, Tony Lombardo, and David Wm. Sims*
Enwistles finger style on Flatwounds is gold. His fingers were like wooden hammers.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE There's a reason why he was called "Thunderfingers," and he could knock it out with a pick too
Yep. Horses for courses.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE He was a Thunderhorse before Bendon Small was even born
@@CIRCLEOFTONE
The Ox is famous to be the man who made Rotosound invent the Superwound roundwound strings, with only the naked core wire to have contact with the saddles of the bridge, to have a more brilliant tone with lots of overtones.
Great video! But there's a reason metallica sounds heavier with finger style players, Chuck Dukowski made black flag sound so heavy, and my all-time favorite Geezer butler filled out Sabbath! Nomatter your technique the fundamental of the note and filling out the mix is 100% more important than "cutting through" the mix. If you have a fat dead tone you can play more interesting melodic parts and not crowd out evertone else. COT RULEZ!
Yep. I mention finger style is fine. It's just the slapping and busy popping etc I was aiming at.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE Yeah ya did, well why don't you take that pick of yours and do a fat strings Friday for the Stranglers! I dare ya!
I've play bass for 14 years and I prefer slap/fingerstyle, however, a pick has its place for sure. Theres no replacement for the attack you get in the studio from a pick
Yep. They even used felt picks back in the day to mute the chime.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE I play with my fingers the majority of the time but even alot of players who use their fingers model their style after pick style of playing. Geezer butler and Geddy Lee are perfect examples. I give people hell that play with a pick unless they are actually trying to stand out a bit instead if hiding in the background.
Billy Gould, GC Green, Rex Brown, Lemmy.
Props to your brother for that Aperture Labs shirt
I play fingerstyle not for any reason other than it's the way I play best. I don't do it to show off, I do it because it's easier for me and if I did use a pick my music would suffer.
Finger style is fine. It's just the overly busy runs plucks, slaps and pops are not vibed by the general public. It's more of a bass player fanbase that likes it.
You're 100% right when you say that the thing that most modern music lacks is writing SONGS instead of just putting out an album of riffs and fills.
from what i can tell, the whole thing about davie504 hating picks seems to be nothing more than a weird meme, maybe a subtle jab at the bass elitists who are like that. i've actually seen a few videos of him playing with picks (such as his roundabout cover). however, most of his fans are not bass players and so they just assume that playing bass with a pick is just an "easy shortcut" or whatever, but it really isn't.
I am a bassist, I play with both pick and finger depending on the song and the tone I want to achieve, and i wouldn't say one is easier than the other. they are just different. slapping definitely takes some practice, but in the end of the day, it is just one of the many techniques for playing bass. it can be really effective in certain songs and genres (such as funk), but it doesn't work with every song. slap bass works really well on, for example, toto's rosanna. however, it would just sound weird and out of place in songs like i saw her standing there, for example.
Yep he's funny as hell and works the angle and it's good satire. But the amount of serious pushback I get for using a pick when I play bass is what I'm pointing at.
The warning everyone needs to hear . I fear it's too late, and the seed is sewn. For me it isnt even about working doing bass as a living, but no-one is pushing the boundaries anymore. Vanilla sausage, anyone?
What exactly is the boundary at this point?
@@freq9939 the boundary in this case is the self imposed nonsense people say and do. The "jaco only needed 4" and that if you use a pick you arent a "real" bassist. All boundaries. Look what happens when people break them: John Entwistle, constantly pushed the boundaries of tone, people like Billy Sheehan pushed the limits of speed, while still keeping a groove. Everyone seems so scared to make a mistake, they're polishing the humanity out of music and making it a banal unlistenable vanilla sausage
Justin Chancellor is my favorite Pick Bass player
I'm more fingers now that my grip on plectrums turned to shite with arthritis and carpal tunnel. Such a small number of tunes our cover band do has slapping that I never tried to get beyond not-even-on-bottom-rung.
It took me twenty years to stop-sticking-to-root-note, I'm never going to slap.
Davie504's channel is funny at times though.
Davie is hilarious. And an absolute beast with a pick and slap. Total package bass wise.
I don't think Davie fell for any trap. Obviously he is very successful with what he does. And what I find most important: He makes the Bass interesting for a lot of young people. The whole slap stuff is a meme. Bass has the reputation of being almost irrelevant in a Rock Band context. Davie shows people that Bass can be far more than just the thing that strictly accompanies with the root notes of what the guitar is playing. It is not just the alternative instrument for people that are too lazy to learn to play the guitar properly.
Having said that, I still agree with your general sentiment. If you wanna make it with music you can't just stick to your skills on one particular thing anymore. While being a session musician is still a thing for some people, you should also learn composition and production techniques while also keeping in mind that the market is pretty much saturated anyway.
Davie is the man. The full package. I'm not seriously calling him out. Just flying the flag for picks. He should call the police.
I play bass and guitar I think you should learn alot of different techniques to express yourself in a MUSICAL way -the song matters. I remember when you said the internet made music a coffee shop vibe and I totally agree....where are the rockstars
Yep. Agreed. Horses for courses.
I'm a punk/noise rock freak, so I've always been a pick player. Flipper, Nirvana, Rollins Band, Jesus Lizard, all that overdriven riffy stuff. It's always so basic but so fun and groovy.
Flipper and especially the Jesus Lizard are bands I hope to be featured in future episodes.
I just slap bass i like it but i hate using pick its little bit too simple. Ofc in My opinion
you know, I'm glad someone else is against slap.
I've never liked the sound, as soon as you're tappy slapping, you're not holding the low end, and it's no longer a bass.
Yep. It's like McDonalds. Nice when you have it once in a while.
I like the control of the fingers but advanced slap bass really has to be done by a guy who will hide in the background who will never be a front man, if you want it all the time. I think of Earth Wimd and Fire or Cool and the Gang. They had frontmen bassists but they are only two. Even Flea stands at the back.
You seem like a nice dude Cot. And you make a good point. You should also include the over flowery Metal music you champion so much. You and your brother have painted yourselves into a corner of very nich public appeal. Nothing wrong with it if that's your cup of tea, but not everyone likes 10 sugars.
Flowery metal I champion? I've done everything from Raketkanon to Godflesh to INXS and Adam and the Ants. The previous video I did was Napalm Death A side bass. th-cam.com/video/glNlV6E53-E/w-d-xo.html
Here's the "thing" M king did something with the slap thing.
Harris had his gallop going on. Karn had his thing too and so did all the great bass players out there, Jameson, Dunn, Kaye etc. No one had a hit (imho) without a great bass line. Same too with your "end of the world zombie apocalypse metal noise"
Good Music is art, Simon Cowell makes money, metal invokes the demon. I guess it's just a matter who you chose to be your dance partner.
Harris didn't slap. I said finger bass is fine and he used flatwounds too. You'd may like this video I did. Did you watch my video? I said songwriting it's key for most of it. Maiden had anthemic choruses etc th-cam.com/video/X-DUIUyyNuM/w-d-xo.html
if you'll do bass, would love you to mess around with the tones of a rick, it sounds humongous on some records, and then completely varies on others, pls unveil its mystery cap'n neckwool : D
Yep I need one in my life. If anyone want's to loan me one (I'm in Florida) let me know. My neck beard is tingling. I bust out a bit of Lemmy in this video. hehe.
The Bassline from Gates of Babylon from Rainbow is evidence enough for the validity of picking bass.
Hell yeah
@@jonnyrepta5391 you mean plectrums?
I kind of agree in the larger sense, but I don't understand the angle you've specifically taken: the emphasis on the '"hits" make right' argument, especially coming from a channel that's covered Napalm Death and other largely underground music. Your same argument can be used to say "Death Metal vocalists, It's a fact: Statistics demonstrate that growled vocals never make "hits" therefore are waste of time." To me this is a strange case to make when one could simply say: Dave Ellefson. The end.
When I say hits, I also mentioned "hits" re the underground. Relative hits etc. It's a long vid though.
I'm a pick player, but musicians should use/do whatever the hell they want. If they "suck" or are doing it "wrong" in someone else's opinion it doesn't matter at all. If you don't like something you're not forced to listen to it. There's way too much vomiting of rules or "recipes" for views or self promotion everywhere.
Watch the video. I talk about not following rules 100%. Don't judge by my title alone which is just a click magnet.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE I know, not talking about you specifically. Though I do problematize the click magnet titles about these "rules".
Honestly I don't quite like the video and don't think it's very helpful to beginners as well. Circle of Tone has this ongoing theme of making a fair point but then just completely missing out on everything else. Here are some points I think are very much over the top:
1) Saying that you shouldn't slap is about as good of an advice as telling bass players not to use a pick. It's a technique that has it's place like all techniques have.
2) Slapping is often used by "solo artists" like Marcus Miller, Victor Wooten, Wojitek Pilichowski, Lary Graham or even Davie504. So it makes perfect sense for him to do it. And he is quite successful with it. By the way I am not even a fan of him mainly due to his memes, but that's not the point here.
3) Telling musicians to "stay in their lane" is not really "rock n roll". If not for roundwounds and agressive tones we wouldn't have 90% of rock and metal tones we have today.
4) Depending on the genre being able to slap can come in quite handy. If you wanna play in a funk band for example. Yes, slapping can be overused but so can every other technique as well.
5) In this video you make it sound like nearly every song was recorded with flatwounds and a pick which just isn't true. Yes back in 60s it was, but maybe because roundwound strings weren't even invented until 63 has something to do with it.
6) And lastly the argument of not getting anywhere with slapping. To me it sounds like your saying: "if you write good music you will be successful and if you slap you won't". I mean sadly being successful nowaydays depends on way more then just writing good music. But being able to slap or be good at your instrument obviously is no hurdle ever. Just make the music you wanna make. And if you wanna make the big money better not even pick up the bass and go for computer generated music instead.
To sum it up: flatwounds with pick sound great so do roundwounds with fingers and slapping and reverse. Do what you wanna make and make it sound good!
I think the whole scene needs a slap. Songwriting has been overtaken by either trying to be as primitive or brutal or technical as possible. Big tone is all the rage and now songwriting is an afterthought. I don't give a shit if it rubs people up the wrong way. The scene is DYING. We need some hard truths.
Its more a matter of genre and time period. Did bass players in rock in the late 60s use a pick? I doubt it because of their blues and jazz style influences. What about modern jazz? You'll never waste your time slapping a bass my friend `~`.
60's was the main period of pick. You shoukd watch the whole video. Wrecking crew staple. Nobody listens to modern jazz. It's an oxymoron at this point.
Roundwounds and picks don't mix well, too much noises. If you want to play with a pick then flatwounds would be ideal but at the expense of the benefits of roundwounds.
13:13 Fleetwood Mac The Chain. Nice
I’m a bass player, like to slap, but not good at it.
But I totally get you! Love to play with my fingers and my pick, serving the band.
Using Roundwounds and flatwounds, depending on the song or project :)
I think that based on this what I am getting is that yes, slapping is ok, but it has a time and place.
Yep.
Slap can definetely be overused. but pick and normal fingerstyle is all about preference and possible musical influences
Yep. Horses for courses.
So bass players should play a certain way because they wont ever be popular? that's what it sounds like your saying. If I played bass and saw this, it would make me want to play slap even more. Davie does slap bass more of as a novelty, I don't think he is interested in making a band or writing radio hits.
What he is saying is that if you wanna play bass in a band you should play in whatever way you make the band sound the best and unfortunately that's rarely slapping.
Last time someone put that many words in my mouth, I was eating alphabetti spaghetti. Davie is the full package when it comes to bass. He's funny as fuck too.
8:40 Phil Specter! 😂 Oh man that got me. Stay healthy!
That wig from the court case was gold. I was wondering when someone would notice. Haha.
Davie504 fell into his own slap meme persona, but in regards to writing, he does have a few good videos with catchy disco-like lines that shows he is capable.
He's amazing. His technique with less busy styles is perfect. He's funny as fuck and a great gateway drug for future bass players.
What`s most important for me is that apart from being great bass player, he also writes and records music. There are many YT shredders just for being YT shredders, nothing more comes out of it.
I've spent time learning the Victor Wooten technique, I've tried to play Marcus Miller's stuff, etc. At the end of the day, it boils down to a 4-string bass and a pick - since I've discovered that 3 years ago I haven't looked back. It's good to have that fiddly stuff in your arsenal, but it doesn't write songs. If anyone needs a definition of what the bass does, all I'll say is GODFLESH.
Your may like this video I did th-cam.com/video/jWmYkeRoRPA/w-d-xo.html
@@CIRCLEOFTONE Already seen it! Thanks for the reminder though!
I agree. Slap bass is kinda like guitar shredding. There a place for hard parts and for simple parts. Look at Eddie Van Halen, one of bigger inspirations for many guitarists. Van Halen songs aren't 100 % mindless fast tapping, there are places for tapping and there are simple riffs, hooks, etc., people enjoy the repeating easy hook, people enjoy the complicated fast solo, and then it's time for the chorus again.
Exactly. The full package is missing.
I think that some forget that no matter if you use a pick, play finger style and or use round or flat wound strings it just a tool to make music. It's how you connect with your listener that truly matters. Your are right some are dead setting against using a pick. As you stated the greats all used one.
Yep it's more and songwriting.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE did Carol Kaye play on Frank Sinatra sessions as well. I no she did a TV theme songs I believe Streets of San Francisco was one of them could be mistaken.
So your saying that James Jamerson and THE HOOK, John Paul Jones,Geezer Butler. I could go on all day NONE OF THEM USE A PICK,Vic Wooten,Marcus Miller,, Stanley Clark ,mostly slappers , ALL GREATS ,NONE USE A PICK then there's Geddy Lee who does it except use a pick. The whole reason I EVER picked up the bass is because my dad was a sound guy for some pretty big acts in the 80s (mostly country some rock) I always wondered why one guitar was bigger had Les strings and played with fingers. I think your assessment is to closed minded, What about Flea? Slap bass is still pretty new , considering the bass itself is only 60 years old so to say most hits aren't slap is an unfair assessment ,today's music isn't the same industry as when Carol Kaye was in it,you want to see someone full of themselves? Carol DEFINITELY is,watch some of her more recent vids. Give it another 69years and revisit this question,I think your answer will be different. Most of what I listen to for new music is either slap or fingerstyle DEFINITELY no picks. Bass coming into it's own as something more than just a rhythm instrument using ALL techniques is necessary but a pick is definitely the least,I can get a picked sound with my fingers ,you can't get a good LEAD bass tone without slapping. Plus the more you know the more your worth
The first lot you mentioned were finger players. I'm focusing more on the busy Slappers if you watch the video. Speaking of which, how many hit singles has Wooten, Miller etc had? You could ask 10,000 people in an airport and nobody will be able sing you a single riff from any of them. That is my point.
Ryan Martinie is the perfect example of a golden ratio between high-end slap/pop and low-end bass.
At the other end of the spectrum to slapping as a horrible group think phenomenon is the massive trend to go into precision bass only, strictly with flatwounds (and a tortoise pickguard of course), and play so deeply and so shroudedly in the pocket that no one knows that you and the bass guitar exist and no one can tell what notes you're playing. It's the other extreme to the slap bass which is heard loud and crystal clear, this other extreme yeah, certainly it can be felt but it's a mush sonically to the listener's ear because no one can understand what you're playing. There needs to be a balance between articulation and the viscerally felt side of the bass that can very easily turn into a mud fest.
Yep I agree with a lot of that.
Oh no
Just look at the successful bassists and how many of them slap. If you asked most rock fans for their 10 favorite bassists how many of them would be slappers? Maybe Les and Flea. If they’re really into music they might know Victor Wooten, but he probably won’t be in their 10.
Fleas biggest hits were slow and mostly finger style like Under the bridge etc. Plus that was in the 90's. Bass and guitar players are in a bubble. I'm not saying slap was never popular. It's just like bongos today. It sounds dated to the new generation. Great songwriting never fails.
I'll record with a pick but I never play live with one
Dave Ellefson plays with a pick and he created one of the most recognizable bass tracks in metal music. I can see slap and other crazy techniques as a one time trick in an album to add a flavour or during live performances and show offs but not something that is listenable for the whole time.
I did a video on Megadeth a few weeks ago and had fun playing the bass. Check it out: th-cam.com/video/bOOhNPZvV80/w-d-xo.html
@@CIRCLEOFTONE Dave Ellefson and Duff have one of the most recognizable tones in music
I saw him at a London bass show.
He described slap as popcorn bass .
Spot on
Compare an “emotional” Joe Satriani solo with an emotional John Frusciante solo. The technique isn’t all that different. It’s not which technique or style you use, it’s your artistic intuition and self-awareness that makes something work or not. Just listen to smooth jazz radio and you’ll hear nothing but cheesy slap (and a lot of Satriani-esque guitar). There are good slap songs out there, but a little bit goes a long way.
Haha. Agreed.
Lmao please don't tell me you're trying to suggest Satch "has no feel"
GoodGuyJamie smooth jazz has plenty of feel as well
Also Fender bass tone cult eternal
So true! There`s a great finnish bassist Jan Olof Strandberg. I love his album Great Moments, but the saddest thing is in terms of recognition and internet is like he wouldn`t exist, and this album i have only because it was a bonus when you bought a bass from Mayones (veeeery long ago, when You didn`t need to bust a few banks to buy one :D). And about Wojtek Pilichowski, he is also well known session musician for artists and bands that don`t really make use of SLAPP;)
Both.