When I learned, we studied dojime front and back, various grapevines, leg, ankle, hip, spine,etc., locks. We just were not allowed to apply them in randori. We were told that Kano banned them because they did not give enough warning in terms of pain before permanent damage occurred. The elbow has the ulnar nerve which screams with pain before the elbow dislocated. Wrists also tend to break, so no full power and speed wrist locks against resisting opponents. We were also told that Kano opposed the Oda style fighting because it ran counter to honorable battlefield combat. You don’t attack a man who is sitting on the ground. It is also insulting to sit down to fight. Imagine this on a battlefield. Jujutsu was originally a battlefield art. Osae and locks were used more as follow-ups to control and finish. Osaekomi was a study in how to control an opponent from any position or angle, not an end in and of itself. We were also told that if you develop or rely on ne-waza too early, you would never fully develop your throwing, which was more important in real fighting and harder to develop. Tach-waza teaches balance, footwork, closing, trapping, and control, etc. ultimately, you want to learn fighting at all levels, ne-waza, half standing (hantachi), standing, etc. what Oda did would never allow randori to develop standing skills so was destructive to the development of broad based technical skills.
Another great piece! I just wanted to chime in with a perspective on leglocks. 1.In a self defense context they have been seen in judo/jujutsu. also in Muay Thai. Lets say I block a low to medium roundhouse kick by stepping in with my hip and securing his kicking leg. Then I can sweep the foot hes standing on. When his back hits the ground I can use a leglock from standing position to prevent my larger and stronger opponent from pursuing me as I exit or to fight off his buddy. All of this to say that Leglocks are fine as long as you can keep standing. Never Give up position to go for a leg lock. 2.In a sportive setting I don't mind attempting a leglock If I am escaping from a bottom of a Leg Dominant pin (Mount and Rear Mount) Where as I escape my opponents main connection to me is through his legs. So the Legs are right there in front of me to attack out of an inferior position. Also We Ought to keep in mind the Primacy of strangles as those are the ultimate match finishers and so generally we move from the opponent's legs through a hierarchy of positions towards his OFF SWITCH aka the neck. I am echoing both John Danaher as well as Helio Gracie who said that "there are no tough guys when it comes to strangles". Of course there is a caveat in this: If I am always ready to attack the legs, it makes jiu jitsu Bi directional. I am dangerous moving up his body towards his neck and back down towards the legs. As opposed to My skilled opponent knowing that I am only going to seek to move from his feet/legs (guard) to side or mount or rear mount for a strangulation finish. Just some thoughts to ponder..
Several of my teachers in Japan, who later became 8th and 9th dans, said that Kano was well versed in newaza, but it wasn't his favorite part of jujutsu, so he had others do most of the work on it. They also said that until problems developed between them, he considered Oda and some others to be somewhat superior in that aspect. I was taught that newaza was important in self defense only because you may not be able to prevent going to the ground. In a real fight without rules you may be subject to, and helpless from, others interfering, ie; your opponent's friends.
That’s not what the bullshit is the bullshit was their marketing tools such as saying Kimura weigh 40 kilograms more than helio. This is false. Or the fact that helio was an ill and weak kid, once again that was a lie. Or let’s not forget the fact that helio, Carlos, and another brother assaulted a competitor after that competitor beat Carlos. One can thank the gracies and still think critically. Kano was ahead of his time
@@calebberaud9747 When the Gracies stated that Helio was too small and weak to perform the stand-up "Tachi-waza techniques, or some bullcrap like that. Obviously, when the “G” family began spinning their web of lies they had no clue of the physical stature of Kano and Mifune. 🤦♂️
I strongly agree with Kano's stress on using competition to develop good habits in what is important for self-defense. In this, I feel judo, BJJ and SAMBO all have something to contribute to this, and that we haven't yet found the ideal ruleset for safely encouraging this development, but I have some ideas. I am pro-leglock, pro-newaza, and pro-greater emphasis on throws, takedowns and tachiwaza. In short I'd like to see rules similar to BJJ on the ground, but I feel that SAMBO's distinction between throws which would simply score ippon in judo and throws where tori remains standing is an important one for self-defense. In BJJ you are essentially forced to engage if someone goes to the ground - I wouldn't end matches on throws, but they would score points - I would give the standing athlete the choice to disengage and force the other competitor to stand up again IF and only if they just performed a clean powerful throw and remained standing, as this is a good habit to learn for self-defense unlike reckless attempts at throws that would end a judo match but which end in roll-through and no control (we often see this with competition uchi mata in particular) The idea here is to allow someone to win the match without ever going to the ground at all, yet allowing freedom of technique if they do choose to go there. Only then with multiple roads to victory can we encourage the best grappling habits for self-defense. I would also distinguish between passive and proactive guard pulls. Pulling guard then immediately attempting a submission or sweep is great, passive guard pulls in which no serious attempt is made should give the opponent points just as if they had scored a takedown.
Great explantation. We can judge with today criteria because of medicine technology and today way of life. In 1926 one judoka suggest kano to make judo 50/50 nit 60/30 kano want to favour tahi waza because consider is more important for self defence and for the historical salvation of ju jutsu teachniques
Judo was/is for for personal and mutual development rather than competitive glory primarily in I think in Kano’s mind. Therefore what was the point in training diligently only to be potentially maimed in Competitive Sport. I feel that Kano felt that it was more important to attain fluency and understanding of principles, obviously Ju being the main one. To this end he felt that standing throws gave a clearer opportunity to learn this principle early in training. An opportunity that might be lost by focus too early or obsessively on me-wasa. It would the be possible to attain proficiency in both nage-wasa and me-wasa. However for practical purposes he understood the necessity for comprehensive knowledge in self defence techniques including leg locks, strikes etc, so maintained them in the form of Kata and therefore they were to be available for special study. Another aspect is that because striking was banned in contest in order to maintain good form of practical use in self defence (where striking was used) within Randori it was necessary to ban or restrict certain aspects of fighting that would be given an “unnatural” advantage. To begin with this was perhaps understood as a gentleman’s agreement, but had to be enforced by regulation as boundaries were stretched by players. Similar to changing laws to make Body-line tactics less used in Cricket say.
I was taught that Kano also wanted to preserve the ancient arts, but thought that to do so you need to offer additional rationale for them. He also realized that training methods were as important as techniques in the development of practical fighting skills. The objective was not to discard good techniques (like atemi, for example), but rather to recognize the value in limited the range of techniques at times so you can go full out.
Excelente video, practico jiu jitsu japonés de chico y también BJJ, lamentablemente todos piensan que el brazilian invento la lucha en el suelo. Gracias por el video, sepan que hace mas de 100 años ya hacían ne waza. Saludos desde Argentina.
En realidad el jiu jitsu Brasileño se deberia llamar Judo Brasileño, Mitsuo Maeda y todos los otros maestros Japoeneses (como Geo Omori) de lo que hoy se llama Jiu Jitsu eran representajes del Kodokan. Casi todas las tecnicas de Jiu Jitsu vienen en el kata de Judo llamado Katame No Kata. Jigoro Kano creo un arte marcial muy equilibrado con derribos (Nague Waza), grappling en el suelo y de pie (Katame Waza), y hasta algunos golpes (Atemi Waza). Que las reglas de las competencias olimpicas modernas hayan hecho que los Judokas se concentren mas en derribos no es culpa del arte ni de Jigoro Kano, es culpa del reglamento de competencia y la excesiva importancia que le dan al aspecto deportivo las actuales escuelas de Judo.
Risk of injuries in shiai or randori concerning leg-locks is a serious issue of course... Also from a self defence perspective it takes focus away from controlling arms and upper body. Very dangerous in a times when use of hidden daggers, knifes or other weapons was common. Control of lead arm for throws - or standing locks - such as waki-gatame - following up with focus on arms and upper body in ne-waza - rather than fikling with the lower extremities of your opponent. Kano Jigoro was very vise to take out the leg locks in my opinion...
Great video bro, I lot people in the BJJ world don't know that BJJ came from Judo and that Traditional Judo has newaza. The 90% of BJJ is Judo newaza, Thanks for the video once again.
There are good reasons for certain techniques to be banned in randori & shiai. But in practice, this means that most schools, which focus on competition only, do not study these techniques and they become lost. For example, ashi garami is part of judo, but i did not learn it until studying katame no kata. If we want to develop as complete judoka, we need the entire art, not just the subset of techniques that are used in competition.
People saying that leglocks were banned because he didn't understand them is ignorant. Leglocks are used in Jujutsu, they just aren't as prevalent as they were in Judo. Because Jujutsu was only used after the main weapons of the samurai were exhausted. The last of which is the Tanto which was used in close combat, after the Katana and Wakazashi. If you pin an opponent and the Tanto is available guess what comes next, otherwise you would just break a persons limb from a joint lock or keep the shime-waza technique going. I once visited a Judo dojo, I was on holiday for a single lesson, I was grabbing legs with my hands, I didn't realize that I was doing the wrong thing, I was breaking oseakomi and used a leglock later that night - it wasn't until I was back at the hotel that maybe I was doing the wrong thing! Still they managed to blow my mind a couple of times, same with Aikido they showed me a thing or two about kuzushi.
I think Judo is superior to bjj because in self defence on street fight it would be very hard to grapel on the gorund because it would be painful but if you throw someone he pobably wil not get up.(sory for my english)
@@tjl4688 most of the time when someone goes to the ground its because they got knocked out. Yes, there are times when both fighters end up on the ground though its not most of the time.
do you have an updated link on where i could find the illustrations from the tenshin jujutsu scrolls? or books that have such illustrations that i could find or buy?
Depends what "broke his leg" means. The danger of ashi guruma etc. is that he tendons snap or get ripped out of the bone. You have a student injured like that: you had a _paying_ student. You get injured yourself like that, it takes years to heal. I know a guy who wanted to show another guy that his Kote Gaeshi is bullshit. Unfortunately that "other guy" was the bigger asshole and ripped his hand tendons out of his forearm. 5 Years no Aikido for the "stupid challenger". Imagine that happens with your knee! You can not even drive a car. Yet alone a bicycle.
Bro, what are you smoking? , The Gracies learned Kodokan Judo with Maeda. The Gracies adapted the techniques to a simpler way to do it but 90% of BJJ newaza is from Judo. Maeda a "JUdoka" is the father of the BJJ and the teacher of the Gracies.
Jigoro Kano developed Judo as a physical education activity for “children.” Go figure, that even as a sport for adults, that Kano would ban any new painful techniques, considering how many traditional techniques that he’d already “filtered out” of the jujitsu systems he had studied. “Sport” is not supposed to be as brutal as hand-to-hand moral combat.
Where did that argument came from?? In general I like Robert Drysdale speech of his research and Im expecting to see his documentary close guard but I saw he saying that "Kano disliked ne waza and that is because he was not good in it"... I think that is just disrespectful and a misunderstand of Judo's objetive. Just read Mind Over Muscle and you can see that clearly. Im a brazilian judoka who likes your channel very much! Domo arigato gozaimasu Chadi-san!
He Ofc knew about ground game and guard, he didn't only study grappling he studied everything so he also knew what he was talking about, I have seen pictures of him with advanced submission details, so whoever sais that he was afraid of ground game etc is just an ignorant bjj fanboi, what I think will make those fanbois come to their senses would be for them to feel how hard can someone plant you , just unban the slams in bjj competition and see what will happen when they are against judocas and wrestlers.
Slams are not banned in bjj,only guard slamming is.Judoka wont get to use their throws much in bjj because of the defensive posturing and guard pulling.I mean even travis Stevens hasn't killed anyone with his throws.
@@scarred10 In bjj there is a chasm between stand up and the ground, most schools prefer wrestling over judo and they learn like 8 throws , a throw needs years of practice to perfect in order to use it effectively all the time against everyone, I know a lot of high end bjj competitors who straggle with stand up. Another thing is that there is a fear among bjj coaches that stand up gets you more injuries and they avoid it, I believe this happens because they don't learn proper breakfalling or how to throw someone without hurting them and judo offers exactly that. I don't think you can plant someone in bjj don't ever forget the power of the shock when someone throws you, you can lose your breath or even consciousness from a strong fall.
You can slam as hard as you like in bjj,just not in guard. There are very few clean throws in bjj because they wont engage on the feet and are not rewarded either for the effort.
@@Chadi neither of those focus on the ground. Newaza is largely a product of sparring and wont feature much in any battlefield art.There is no martial art in history that focuses on newaza other than bjj which was only a strategy for match fighting.
@@scarred10 You really did not read any history? if you are a sensei.. then why would you forget about kito ryu's groundwork? this was 100 years before the Gracie's and the Gracie's took their system from Judo's newaza and enhanced it.
Indeed jigoro kano did a major contribution to the martial arts world , but from what I read and eard from judo specialists , jigoro kano also did big mistakes , I'm sure that he had some skills on the ground but he also said that only animals fight on the ground ,men fight on their two feet standing up ... He also showed not being a fan of the ground fighting by allowing changes in judo that separeted the standing up Grappling from the ground Grappling, and by do it so, they got more focused in throws and standing then actually letting the sistem grow unified like it was in the biggening a complete Grappling sistem standing up , clinch , swipes ,throws and ground fighting bottom and mont ( on top ) remember that any japanese art it's not a democracy.. everything cames from above ( the head ) and the rest follows ... So every change in judo had to came from the top Jigoro kano and his Senior black belt students ... If he was good on the ground ?? Well I don't know ,but I bet he knew very well the ground Grappling,. But for whatever reason he dismissed that part of judo ... I mean they didn't trained with the same intensity as they do with thee standing up Grappling that became the main image of judo .. This is what I had read and eared from judo specialists about judo today and the old kodokan judo ... Jigoro kano was a gentleman a professor and a visionary but he made a big mistake by look down happon ground fighting ( kosen judo )
Gordon Ryan is good at all the rest of the two he’s not a typical leg guy and I have a feeling he has the gene the caveman gene for fighting and I have a feeling he practices it also. The other hand Galvan whatever whatever his name is has learned those self-defense. For example the Hixson gracie put your hands up with someone gets close to you. That would’ve stopped both slaps it’s so funny that a champion that’s been doing jujitsu forever does know the basics of self-defense wow That was the best less than he ever learned I hope you learned it
Legs locks needed to be addressed it was a hidden thing in the closet you needed to be brought out and mastered now we need a mouse to the defenses of like locks and go back to the beauty of jujitsu judo eventually as we learn the defenses it’s just the evolution
For me 2 men destroy judo or make it unable to evolve in ground and as mix combat sport a lot judokas Aldo did karate back then. First is jigoro kano second is Genaral Mc Arthur.
@@thunderflower7998 It is even suggested by some Japanese Judo sensei that Kano had menkyo from Daito Ryu. Also that the menkyo were mostly as a favor from the Takeda family for favors from Kano, although they say that he did study some.
The problem with UFC is there’s rounds and gloves in a ring otherwise they would be much more ground fighting the ground has a bigger part to play in the streets in the UFC pretends with its rules.
I mean sure but even world class fighters' stamina would fall flat in a Vale Tudo length type grappling match. I think some rules are bs but u gotta think practically about trained fighters willing to clobber each other for an extended period of time and pitting someone with 30 minute conditioning vs round conditioning is unfair in practice imo.
Pulling guard is done in MMA all the time. It's also in the Gracie Combatives curriculum. Obviously you don't do it without protecting yourself from strikes in the process and it is not a move to do in isolation. To say that pulling guard is not a legitimate takedown is ridiculous. It might not be a beautiful throw, but it's a legit tactic for sure.
I heard that in MMA, the guy on the ground can kick, but the standing guy can’t kick the guy playing guard. Is that correct? It seems that if the standing guy could kick, guard pulling loses its appeal. Sakuraba did that, and it looked like it really hurt those receiving his kicks and stomps.
@@GoDaveGo pulling guard means pulling someone down to the ground into your guard. It does not mean laying on the ground and letting yourself be assaulted with strikes.
@@Chadi th-cam.com/video/h-9dhrzlPoY/w-d-xo.html Royce pulled guard regularly in the UFC. In this clip at 0:10. Is it done on modern MMA? Not so much. But early UFCs had less rules, no weight limits. Much more like a real fight.
you would get "smashed in the face" standing in front of a guy doing grip fighting as well. You will get hurt falling from your own sloppy throws when both guys hit a hard surface in the real world. The selective appeal to "reality" is quite disingenuous. J. E Harrison, the early English writer who trained in Japan said that many throws were far more dangerous than a foot lock, and he should know having trained in the early 1900s. Personally, having done combat sports most of my life, the simple statistical reality is most injuries that i saw in judo and wrestling came from falling or trying not to fall. I saw some very stupid knee and ankle twists in Judo simply because people were hung up on not touching their backs on the ground (an very artificial rule) instead of actually doing "judo" by excepting the force and going with it to transition into ground work.- like is done in good BJJ. the truth is despite the many more submissions allowed in BJJ training i think i saw more injuries in a week of judo, than i did in years of BJJ. and that is no exaggeration. So there is a whole lot more to it than what subs are allowed.
I believe he was skilled on ground but not to level where students could not be defeated. I don't believe it was fear that made him resist leg locks but ego. He refused to acknowledge there was holes in judo. Newaza clearly showed that. It made absolutely no sense for judo to be challenged in tachi waza which is the strength. Newaza clearly is effective in self defense as well as leg locks. Firas zahabi did experiment to show that. th-cam.com/video/s2MFYTDGGZQ/w-d-xo.html
I don't think it's ego, yes ne waza has defensive purposes, his old jujutsu school had it, he wasn't against ne waza he was against not engaging in stand up, and leg locks back then were detrimental, no ACL surgeries ore anything
@@Chadi I don't agree with ACL argument. Clearly getting dumped on head is more dangerous. Plus armbars and chokes. Like I said engaging in combat against someones strengths is a silly strategy. Same strategy fada used against Gracie's and helio said same thing. History repeats itself.
@@Chadi I agree with Chadi on this. Kano Jigoro wrote about making Judo safer for randori training by banning frequent crippling techniques that caused more life changing injuries in his day. He didn't like how I'll old school jujutsu masters would leave students crippled or injured by throwing against joints, leg locks, small joint manipulations. Kano wanted students to train & spar in a relatively safer way to grow in the art. Kano was a compassionate teacher.
@Peasant Scrublord I agree that the training environment makes a difference but kano wasn't aware of CTE so he might have changed his thoughts with that information.
Ha ha. First!
Sorry. Couldn't help myself... :-)
Félicitations 🥇
Dang... you took over my reign!!!
@@hiskandar better luck next time
When I learned, we studied dojime front and back, various grapevines, leg, ankle, hip, spine,etc., locks. We just were not allowed to apply them in randori. We were told that Kano banned them because they did not give enough warning in terms of pain before permanent damage occurred. The elbow has the ulnar nerve which screams with pain before the elbow dislocated. Wrists also tend to break, so no full power and speed wrist locks against resisting opponents. We were also told that Kano opposed the Oda style fighting because it ran counter to honorable battlefield combat. You don’t attack a man who is sitting on the ground. It is also insulting to sit down to fight. Imagine this on a battlefield. Jujutsu was originally a battlefield art. Osae and locks were used more as follow-ups to control and finish. Osaekomi was a study in how to control an opponent from any position or angle, not an end in and of itself. We were also told that if you develop or rely on ne-waza too early, you would never fully develop your throwing, which was more important in real fighting and harder to develop. Tach-waza teaches balance, footwork, closing, trapping, and control, etc. ultimately, you want to learn fighting at all levels, ne-waza, half standing (hantachi), standing, etc. what Oda did would never allow randori to develop standing skills so was destructive to the development of broad based technical skills.
Your sensei is amazing all techniques should be taught and following Kano's footsteps
Amazing insight 👏👏👏 Jigaro Kano's contribution to martial arts is unrivaled. What we have today would not exist without him.
Agreed 100%🙇🏻♂️
Your channel is a light in the dark of modern BJJ and MMA so called experts.
Thank you so much Felipe
I love how youtubers like you still have a connection with their viewers, nice to see you going through the comments, great man, wish you all the best
Thank You Daniel
Another great piece! I just wanted to chime in with a perspective on leglocks.
1.In a self defense context they have been seen in judo/jujutsu. also in Muay Thai. Lets say I block a low to medium roundhouse kick by stepping in with my hip and securing his kicking leg. Then I can sweep the foot hes standing on. When his back hits the ground I can use a leglock from standing position to prevent my larger and stronger opponent from pursuing me as I exit or to fight off his buddy.
All of this to say that Leglocks are fine as long as you can keep standing. Never Give up position to go for a leg lock.
2.In a sportive setting I don't mind attempting a leglock If I am escaping from a bottom of a Leg Dominant pin (Mount and Rear Mount) Where as I escape my opponents main connection to me is through his legs. So the Legs are right there in front of me to attack out of an inferior position.
Also We Ought to keep in mind the Primacy of strangles as those are the ultimate match finishers and so generally we move from the opponent's legs through a hierarchy of positions towards his OFF SWITCH aka the neck.
I am echoing both John Danaher as well as Helio Gracie who said that "there are no tough guys when it comes to strangles".
Of course there is a caveat in this: If I am always ready to attack the legs, it makes jiu jitsu Bi directional. I am dangerous moving up his body towards his neck and back down towards the legs. As opposed to My skilled opponent knowing that I am only going to seek to move from his feet/legs (guard) to side or mount or rear mount for a strangulation finish.
Just some thoughts to ponder..
Several of my teachers in Japan, who later became 8th and 9th dans, said that Kano was well versed in newaza, but it wasn't his favorite part of jujutsu, so he had others do most of the work on it. They also said that until problems developed between them, he considered Oda and some others to be somewhat superior in that aspect. I was taught that newaza was important in self defense only because you may not be able to prevent going to the ground. In a real fight without rules you may be subject to, and helpless from, others interfering, ie; your opponent's friends.
Tnx Chadi for being a truth seeker Historian... no bs unlike some Family we know
Thank you so much
That’s not what the bullshit is the bullshit was their marketing tools such as saying Kimura weigh 40 kilograms more than helio. This is false. Or the fact that helio was an ill and weak kid, once again that was a lie. Or let’s not forget the fact that helio, Carlos, and another brother assaulted a competitor after that competitor beat Carlos.
One can thank the gracies and still think critically.
Kano was ahead of his time
@@calebberaud9747 dude!! I have been telling people what you just stated for several years now!! So glad you added this to the comments!!!
@@calebberaud9747 When the Gracies stated that Helio was too small and weak to perform the stand-up "Tachi-waza techniques, or some bullcrap like that. Obviously, when the “G” family began spinning their web of lies they had no clue of the physical stature of Kano and Mifune. 🤦♂️
I strongly agree with Kano's stress on using competition to develop good habits in what is important for self-defense. In this, I feel judo, BJJ and SAMBO all have something to contribute to this, and that we haven't yet found the ideal ruleset for safely encouraging this development, but I have some ideas. I am pro-leglock, pro-newaza, and pro-greater emphasis on throws, takedowns and tachiwaza.
In short I'd like to see rules similar to BJJ on the ground, but I feel that SAMBO's distinction between throws which would simply score ippon in judo and throws where tori remains standing is an important one for self-defense.
In BJJ you are essentially forced to engage if someone goes to the ground - I wouldn't end matches on throws, but they would score points - I would give the standing athlete the choice to disengage and force the other competitor to stand up again IF and only if they just performed a clean powerful throw and remained standing, as this is a good habit to learn for self-defense unlike reckless attempts at throws that would end a judo match but which end in roll-through and no control (we often see this with competition uchi mata in particular)
The idea here is to allow someone to win the match without ever going to the ground at all, yet allowing freedom of technique if they do choose to go there. Only then with multiple roads to victory can we encourage the best grappling habits for self-defense.
I would also distinguish between passive and proactive guard pulls. Pulling guard then immediately attempting a submission or sweep is great, passive guard pulls in which no serious attempt is made should give the opponent points just as if they had scored a takedown.
Great explantation. We can judge with today criteria because of medicine technology and today way of life. In 1926 one judoka suggest kano to make judo 50/50 nit 60/30 kano want to favour tahi waza because consider is more important for self defence and for the historical salvation of ju jutsu teachniques
I agree with Kano 100%
Professor Chadi, you sir are on 🔥 with the latest sets of videos. They are very informative and inspirational.
Merci beaucoup, Much Appreciated!
Thank you Floyd
Judo was/is for for personal and mutual development rather than competitive glory primarily in I think in Kano’s mind. Therefore what was the point in training diligently only to be potentially maimed in Competitive Sport. I feel that Kano felt that it was more important to attain fluency and understanding of principles, obviously Ju being the main one. To this end he felt that standing throws gave a clearer opportunity to learn this principle early in training. An opportunity that might be lost by focus too early or obsessively on me-wasa. It would the be possible to attain proficiency in both nage-wasa and me-wasa. However for practical purposes he understood the necessity for comprehensive knowledge in self defence techniques including leg locks, strikes etc, so maintained them in the form of Kata and therefore they were to be available for special study.
Another aspect is that because striking was banned in contest in order to maintain good form of practical use in self defence (where striking was used) within Randori it was necessary to ban or restrict certain aspects of fighting that would be given an “unnatural” advantage. To begin with this was perhaps understood as a gentleman’s agreement, but had to be enforced by regulation as boundaries were stretched by players. Similar to changing laws to make Body-line tactics less used in Cricket say.
Agreed
I was taught that Kano also wanted to preserve the ancient arts, but thought that to do so you need to offer additional rationale for them. He also realized that training methods were as important as techniques in the development of practical fighting skills. The objective was not to discard good techniques (like atemi, for example), but rather to recognize the value in limited the range of techniques at times so you can go full out.
Excelente video, practico jiu jitsu japonés de chico y también BJJ, lamentablemente todos piensan que el brazilian invento la lucha en el suelo. Gracias por el video, sepan que hace mas de 100 años ya hacían ne waza.
Saludos desde Argentina.
All my love to Argentina❤🙇🏻♂️
En realidad el jiu jitsu Brasileño se deberia llamar Judo Brasileño, Mitsuo Maeda y todos los otros maestros Japoeneses (como Geo Omori) de lo que hoy se llama Jiu Jitsu eran representajes del Kodokan. Casi todas las tecnicas de Jiu Jitsu vienen en el kata de Judo llamado Katame No Kata. Jigoro Kano creo un arte marcial muy equilibrado con derribos (Nague Waza), grappling en el suelo y de pie (Katame Waza), y hasta algunos golpes (Atemi Waza). Que las reglas de las competencias olimpicas modernas hayan hecho que los Judokas se concentren mas en derribos no es culpa del arte ni de Jigoro Kano, es culpa del reglamento de competencia y la excesiva importancia que le dan al aspecto deportivo las actuales escuelas de Judo.
Agreed!! Thanks to awesome guys like Chadi this information is becoming more well-known among BJJ and MMA practitioners
I always loved your video Chadi, especially the sumo, jujutsu and judo content. I love Japanese grappling arts. You've earn a new subscriber.
Thank you 🙏🏻
@@Chadi Thank you for quality content, its very nice to get quality information on these arts.
@@Projectdarksource I truly appreciate it
Watching this after training jiu-jitsu is the best 👌
Hope training was good
I have books from the 1920s featuring yukio tani and s Uyenishi. I can send you some high quality pictures if you want
Thank you! YES please do
can you upload them in google drive and send them to me?
Rashid : I would love to see your pics
I agree we all have to learn all the defenses of leg locks so the beautiful Marcello Garcia jujitsu can come back in to play
Bro, Please share with me does pictures. I will appreciate it a lot or you can also tell me where to find this book and Ill buy it.
Thanks chadi! I had asked this question on an other video of yours. Thank you sir!
You're welcome Sir
Risk of injuries in shiai or randori concerning leg-locks is a serious issue of course... Also from a self defence perspective it takes focus away from controlling arms and upper body. Very dangerous in a times when use of hidden daggers, knifes or other weapons was common. Control of lead arm for throws - or standing locks - such as waki-gatame - following up with focus on arms and upper body in ne-waza - rather than fikling with the lower extremities of your opponent. Kano Jigoro was very vise to take out the leg locks in my opinion...
Great video bro, I lot people in the BJJ world don't know that BJJ came from Judo and that Traditional Judo has newaza.
The 90% of BJJ is Judo newaza, Thanks for the video once again.
I like the pulling the hair was someone’s going to the lake lock interesting
Great video. Love watching these types of videos
Thank you Walter
awsome as usual... sorry for slight off topic but anyting on one of my favorite judokas:
katsuhiko Kashiwazaki
just did a search on your site.... saw it!
Enjoy it
Very nice video thank you chadi 👏👏👏👏
Thank you
There are good reasons for certain techniques to be banned in randori & shiai. But in practice, this means that most schools, which focus on competition only, do not study these techniques and they become lost. For example, ashi garami is part of judo, but i did not learn it until studying katame no kata. If we want to develop as complete judoka, we need the entire art, not just the subset of techniques that are used in competition.
Banned techniques should at least be part of the exams
As a BJJ practician I haven't heard any person say negative about Judo. A lot of the guys say they'd love to learn more of it.
People saying that leglocks were banned because he didn't understand them is ignorant. Leglocks are used in Jujutsu, they just aren't as prevalent as they were in Judo. Because Jujutsu was only used after the main weapons of the samurai were exhausted. The last of which is the Tanto which was used in close combat, after the Katana and Wakazashi. If you pin an opponent and the Tanto is available guess what comes next, otherwise you would just break a persons limb from a joint lock or keep the shime-waza technique going. I once visited a Judo dojo, I was on holiday for a single lesson, I was grabbing legs with my hands, I didn't realize that I was doing the wrong thing, I was breaking oseakomi and used a leglock later that night - it wasn't until I was back at the hotel that maybe I was doing the wrong thing! Still they managed to blow my mind a couple of times, same with Aikido they showed me a thing or two about kuzushi.
I agree 100%
I think Judo is superior to bjj because in self defence on street fight it would be very hard to grapel on the gorund because it would be painful but if you throw someone he pobably wil not get up.(sory for my english)
you're right
So why is it that most street fight footage ends up on the ground?
@@tjl4688 but all of them start standing up
@@tjl4688 most of the time when someone goes to the ground its because they got knocked out. Yes, there are times when both fighters end up on the ground though its not most of the time.
Depends on the surface
do you have an updated link on where i could find the illustrations from the tenshin jujutsu scrolls? or books that have such illustrations that i could find or buy?
Five stars !! 🖐👺 keep up the great work !!
Thank you Hamad🙇🏻♂️
Depends what "broke his leg" means. The danger of ashi guruma etc. is that he tendons snap or get ripped out of the bone. You have a student injured like that: you had a _paying_ student. You get injured yourself like that, it takes years to heal. I know a guy who wanted to show another guy that his Kote Gaeshi is bullshit. Unfortunately that "other guy" was the bigger asshole and ripped his hand tendons out of his forearm. 5 Years no Aikido for the "stupid challenger". Imagine that happens with your knee! You can not even drive a car. Yet alone a bicycle.
Jesus that's horrendous
Legend says Kano, the founder of modern Judo got submitted by a bjj blue belt during a te-waza seminar.
😂
the founder of bjj can't submitted kano
🤣
Bro, what are you smoking? , The Gracies learned Kodokan Judo with Maeda. The Gracies adapted the techniques to a simpler way to do it but 90% of BJJ newaza is from Judo. Maeda a "JUdoka" is the father of the BJJ and the teacher of the Gracies.
Well done :)
Kept loosing judo matches so focused on katamewaza only to have a chance... Where have I heard that story before?... Hmmm...
History repeats itself
Jigoro Kano developed Judo as a physical education activity for “children.” Go figure, that even as a sport for adults, that Kano would ban any new painful techniques, considering how many traditional techniques that he’d already “filtered out” of the jujitsu systems he had studied. “Sport” is not supposed to be as brutal as hand-to-hand moral combat.
Where does it say it's for children??
Where did that argument came from??
In general I like Robert Drysdale speech of his research and Im expecting to see his documentary close guard but I saw he saying that "Kano disliked ne waza and that is because he was not good in it"... I think that is just disrespectful and a misunderstand of Judo's objetive. Just read Mind Over Muscle and you can see that clearly.
Im a brazilian judoka who likes your channel very much! Domo arigato gozaimasu Chadi-san!
Domo arigato🙇🏻♂️
He Ofc knew about ground game and guard, he didn't only study grappling he studied everything so he also knew what he was talking about, I have seen pictures of him with advanced submission details, so whoever sais that he was afraid of ground game etc is just an ignorant bjj fanboi, what I think will make those fanbois come to their senses would be for them to feel how hard can someone plant you , just unban the slams in bjj competition and see what will happen when they are against judocas and wrestlers.
You're absolutely right
Slams are not banned in bjj,only guard slamming is.Judoka wont get to use their throws much in bjj because of the defensive posturing and guard pulling.I mean even travis Stevens hasn't killed anyone with his throws.
@@scarred10 In bjj there is a chasm between stand up and the ground, most schools prefer wrestling over judo and they learn like 8 throws , a throw needs years of practice to perfect in order to use it effectively all the time against everyone, I know a lot of high end bjj competitors who straggle with stand up. Another thing is that there is a fear among bjj coaches that stand up gets you more injuries and they avoid it, I believe this happens because they don't learn proper breakfalling or how to throw someone without hurting them and judo offers exactly that.
I don't think you can plant someone in bjj don't ever forget the power of the shock when someone throws you, you can lose your breath or even consciousness from a strong fall.
You can slam as hard as you like in bjj,just not in guard. There are very few clean throws in bjj because they wont engage on the feet and are not rewarded either for the effort.
@@scarred10 strange, once I grabbed someone kata guruma and it was forbidden to throw him powerfully to the ground maybe the rules changed.
Question: did Japan have a grappling system/folklore type wrestling prior to Judo that had large focus on ground?
Tenjin Shinyo ryu Jujutsu
@@Chadi neither of those focus on the ground. Newaza is largely a product of sparring and wont feature much in any battlefield art.There is no martial art in history that focuses on newaza other than bjj which was only a strategy for match fighting.
@@Chadi ground sumo?
@@mpforeverunlimited no! I misread it's tenjin shinyo ryu jujutsu
@@scarred10 You really did not read any history? if you are a sensei.. then why would you forget about kito ryu's groundwork? this was 100 years before the Gracie's and the Gracie's took their system from Judo's newaza and enhanced it.
You only don’t need them if you’re a master of escaping them which I agree with this philosophy but it is the reality
Indeed jigoro kano did a major contribution to the martial arts world , but from what I read and eard from judo specialists , jigoro kano also did big mistakes , I'm sure that he had some skills on the ground but he also said that only animals fight on the ground ,men fight on their two feet standing up ... He also showed not being a fan of the ground fighting by allowing changes in judo that separeted the standing up Grappling from the ground Grappling, and by do it so, they got more focused in throws and standing then actually letting the sistem grow unified like it was in the biggening a complete Grappling sistem standing up , clinch , swipes ,throws and ground fighting bottom and mont ( on top ) remember that any japanese art it's not a democracy.. everything cames from above ( the head ) and the rest follows ... So every change in judo had to came from the top Jigoro kano and his Senior black belt students ... If he was good on the ground ?? Well I don't know ,but I bet he knew very well the ground Grappling,. But for whatever reason he dismissed that part of judo ... I mean they didn't trained with the same intensity as they do with thee standing up Grappling that became the main image of judo ..
This is what I had read and eared from judo specialists about judo today and the old kodokan judo ... Jigoro kano was a gentleman a professor and a visionary but he made a big mistake by look down happon ground fighting ( kosen judo )
Gordon Ryan is good at all the rest of the two he’s not a typical leg guy and I have a feeling he has the gene the caveman gene for fighting and I have a feeling he practices it also.
The other hand Galvan whatever whatever his name is has learned those self-defense.
For example the Hixson gracie put your hands up with someone gets close to you. That would’ve stopped both slaps it’s so funny that a champion that’s been doing jujitsu forever does know the basics of self-defense wow
That was the best less than he ever learned I hope you learned it
Legs locks needed to be addressed it was a hidden thing in the closet you needed to be brought out and mastered now we need a mouse to the defenses of like locks and go back to the beauty of jujitsu judo eventually as we learn the defenses it’s just the evolution
Judo , Karate, Aïkido all 3 come from Jujutsu that is the oldest one. Il has been divided in 3 for the population.
Wow they had stripes on the belt even then.
That wasn't his belt i believe
@@Chadi the guy he had in the armbar photo had stripes on his belt.
@@berniekatzroy No, that wasn't his belt. He has a black belt tied around his waist, the black stripes were underneath his gi.
@@Finger_Lock_ ohh
For me 2 men destroy judo or make it unable to evolve in ground and as mix combat sport a lot judokas Aldo did karate back then. First is jigoro kano second is Genaral Mc Arthur.
Kimura did Karate
Takeda and Kano knew one another?
Matsugai Takeda??? Or sokaku?
@@Chadi Sokaku Takeda.And also if we have some quotes of them about one another?
@@thunderflower7998 It is even suggested by some Japanese Judo sensei that Kano had menkyo from Daito Ryu. Also that the menkyo were mostly as a favor from the Takeda family for favors from Kano, although they say that he did study some.
The problem with UFC is there’s rounds and gloves in a ring otherwise they would be much more ground fighting the ground has a bigger part to play in the streets in the UFC pretends with its rules.
I mean sure but even world class fighters' stamina would fall flat in a Vale Tudo length type grappling match. I think some rules are bs but u gotta think practically about trained fighters willing to clobber each other for an extended period of time and pitting someone with 30 minute conditioning vs round conditioning is unfair in practice imo.
I agree they should run varied bare knuckled matches and incentivize grappling but it would be a very long adjustment process for everyone involved
Stand up fighting is cool to the UFC is improved on that. Perhaps there could be no rounds but still time limit same time limit just without rounds?
If they don’t want to do that people want to see the way it is I think money wise
In my opinion mma and bjj wouldn't even be a thing
I agree
Gordon got clubbed from his butterfly guard agains cyborg lol
when?
@@Chadi th-cam.com/video/lmbRw6SmQkY/w-d-xo.html
Last years no gi worlds Gordon was talking trash to cyborg online prior to the match.
and who won?
@@williamadamsbjj cyborg got dq-ed
Pulling guard is done in MMA all the time. It's also in the Gracie Combatives curriculum. Obviously you don't do it without protecting yourself from strikes in the process and it is not a move to do in isolation. To say that pulling guard is not a legitimate takedown is ridiculous. It might not be a beautiful throw, but it's a legit tactic for sure.
Can you link a video on tactical guard pulling??
I heard that in MMA, the guy on the ground can kick, but the standing guy can’t kick the guy playing guard. Is that correct? It seems that if the standing guy could kick, guard pulling loses its appeal. Sakuraba did that, and it looked like it really hurt those receiving his kicks and stomps.
@@GoDaveGo pulling guard means pulling someone down to the ground into your guard. It does not mean laying on the ground and letting yourself be assaulted with strikes.
@@Chadi th-cam.com/video/h-9dhrzlPoY/w-d-xo.html
Royce pulled guard regularly in the UFC. In this clip at 0:10. Is it done on modern MMA? Not so much. But early UFCs had less rules, no weight limits. Much more like a real fight.
you would get "smashed in the face" standing in front of a guy doing grip fighting as well. You will get hurt falling from your own sloppy throws when both guys hit a hard surface in the real world. The selective appeal to "reality" is quite disingenuous. J. E Harrison, the early English writer who trained in Japan said that many throws were far more dangerous than a foot lock, and he should know having trained in the early 1900s. Personally, having done combat sports most of my life, the simple statistical reality is most injuries that i saw in judo and wrestling came from falling or trying not to fall. I saw some very stupid knee and ankle twists in Judo simply because people were hung up on not touching their backs on the ground (an very artificial rule) instead of actually doing "judo" by excepting the force and going with it to transition into ground work.- like is done in good BJJ. the truth is despite the many more submissions allowed in BJJ training i think i saw more injuries in a week of judo, than i did in years of BJJ. and that is no exaggeration. So there is a whole lot more to it than what subs are allowed.
I believe he was skilled on ground but not to level where students could not be defeated. I don't believe it was fear that made him resist leg locks but ego. He refused to acknowledge there was holes in judo. Newaza clearly showed that. It made absolutely no sense for judo to be challenged in tachi waza which is the strength. Newaza clearly is effective in self defense as well as leg locks. Firas zahabi did experiment to show that. th-cam.com/video/s2MFYTDGGZQ/w-d-xo.html
I don't think it's ego, yes ne waza has defensive purposes, his old jujutsu school had it, he wasn't against ne waza he was against not engaging in stand up, and leg locks back then were detrimental, no ACL surgeries ore anything
@@Chadi I don't agree with ACL argument. Clearly getting dumped on head is more dangerous. Plus armbars and chokes. Like I said engaging in combat against someones strengths is a silly strategy. Same strategy fada used against Gracie's and helio said same thing. History repeats itself.
@@Chadi I agree with Chadi on this. Kano Jigoro wrote about making Judo safer for randori training by banning frequent crippling techniques that caused more life changing injuries in his day. He didn't like how I'll old school jujutsu masters would leave students crippled or injured by throwing against joints, leg locks, small joint manipulations. Kano wanted students to train & spar in a relatively safer way to grow in the art. Kano was a compassionate teacher.
@Peasant Scrublord I agree that the training environment makes a difference but kano wasn't aware of CTE so he might have changed his thoughts with that information.