I'm obviously not saying that Isogai invented ne waza or ground grappling, but thanks to him the Ne Waza curriculum we have today because of his rivalry with Tanabe was founded, that people like Kanemitsu and Oda (who learned from Hajime Isogai) added to it and it became this sophisticated ground game.
Where did Tanabi get his ground game from? I understand the familiar ground game we have to what was made to defeat him, but what type of ground game was Tanabi using? Was it similar to what was used to defeat him after coming up with counters, transitions, sweeps, etc?
Tanabe says he invented a lot of his own techniques. To me, he is the father or modern Newaza, though I am curious to know about where Samura got his newaza skills.
It was Tanabe, not Hajime Isogai that Kano Jigoro asked to teach Ne Waza to his students, due to Fusen Ryu constantly beating Kodokan. It was Tanabe that included Ashi Garami in the Judo curriculum. So how can you day Hajime Isogai is father of Ne Waza?
I love history and I love martial arts. The old film just adds to your narration. I've been training BJJ for 4 years and I love watching old Japanese judo films on ne waza. Excellent video🥋
@@Chadi I won't say his name he's a highly respected BJJ black belt and respected figure but year's ago I found out about Kosen JUDO so I asked him if you had to rank Kosen JUDO to BJJ belt rank system what would it be ? The guy said blue belt that's offensive in my opinion what do you think ?
@@Chadi another question I've never lived in Japan or know the history like yourself but in Japan besides Kosen Judo that's taught at Kyoto University do they have other forms of JUDO or do they have Kosen JUDO schools or just JUDO schools in general outside of Kyoto that mainly focus on Newaza ????
Once again lad you have come too scratch and delivered a mighty blow. Thank you for keeping alive the memory of Professor Isogai. God bless you and your family.
By the style of clothing this is judo, jiujitsu clothes had short sleeves above the elbow and short pants above the knee. Jigoro Kano, the founder of judo, was the one who introduced longer sleeves and pants to protect those areas of the body that hurt a lot when rubbing on the mat.
Benjamin Fry To me, Tanabe is more the father of Newaza as he started the arms race on the ground. Also, Tanabe’s students (Miyake, Tani, Uyenishi) were the ones sent to England to fight no holds bar against wrestler and boxers, developing what we call the Gracie Combatives. Maeda then became their partners while in Europe and some of Tanabe’s students end up opening schools in Brazil I believe around the time Maeda did as they traveled to Brazil together . Tanabe wasn’t part of the Kodokan
Muchas gracias por este video una auténtica reliquia este video hecha por tierra la teoria de los gracies que han adaptado no han adaptado nada esto ya se hacia en japón muchos años antes
magnifique ce mini documentaire!!! De la part d'un pratiquant de jiu jitsu brésilien, merci pour toute cette richesse historique apportée, tu es un vrai historien des arts martiaux! Et merci de nous faire découvrir des maîtres de judo/jiu jitsu peu connus qui ont posé les bases du newaza
If I remember correctly, you referred to the fourth "soke" of Fusen Ryu as equivalent to fouth dan. " Soke" actually means "Family inheritor" or head master. Soke is not a rank, but position. If Kodokan were classical budo, Jigoro Kano would be the first Soke. I am amazed by the amount of great information you are able to come up with and put into these videos and think it is impossible to do them without an occasional small error. Thank you for your work.
Thank you Ken! I wasn't sure either, I'm looking into the ryu gendai etc and planning to make a video detailing the differences between old and new system.
@@Chadi Indeed. The dividing line between koryu and gendai budo may not really exist. If it does exist, then it is obscure to say the least. For example. Daito ryu is certainly gendai by some definitions, but traces it's origins back to truly ancient times. It is a very difficult task and I wish you the best. I look forward to more videos.
Buen video!!! Y del bjj también, aunque el video es antiguo, se ven técnicas que se usan en bjj. Siempre he creido que el bjj es judo antiguo. Soy un eterno aprendiz de ambos. Saludos
nice video about Newaza!!! I wish that some people practice newaza too...the kids in my dojo are used to after throwing someone you should immediately pin them in any way possible(this is for kids ages 5-16) and if you are at the proper age submissions will be taught. Unfortunately, some schools just concentrate on the standing aspect, and don't teach grounds that much. I'm happy we have a sensei that teaches us both, and from time to time teaches us some banned techniques so that we are to be ready with any grappling tournaments. Keep up the good work sir, the information and knowledge we gain from your videos is a treasure.
For those interested in Japanese Feudal Grappling applications vs. Post feudal Japanese competitive grappling here's a good examination between a canadian master of 1532 Takenouchi Ryu and a Brazilian Jiujitsu Ne Waza professor...th-cam.com/video/PL8ywtIOtfY/w-d-xo.html
It is said that Isogai perfected his ne waza with the help of Kaichiro Samura, who was supposedly an expert in ground fighting who had come from the now extinct Takeuchi Santo-ryū and happened to be the son of Masaaki Samura, who himself happened to be the referee in one of the Isogai/Tanabe matches. Is there any more information as for as Kaichiro Samura's newaza or contributions thereof to the Kodokan? And is there any information out there on Takeuchi Santo-ryū's newaza repertoire? Interesting is that the Yano family supposedly founded Takeuchi Santo-ryu and a Yano Takeo, supposedly of this family, was a student of Isogai Hajime and this Yano Takeo supposedly went/moved to Brazil and fought in jiujitsu and luta livre matches there from the late 1920’s through the 1950’s and developed a professional relationship with a Jorge (George) Gracie. kogenbudo.org/takeuchi-santo-ryu/
It looks like there is a more current third edition of this Choque book (that covers Brazilian Jiujitsu history from 1859 to 1949) that is readily available and more affordable. www.amazon.com/Choque-Third-Jiu-Jitsu-1856-1949-History/dp/1533568626/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1600008591&refinements=p_27%3ARoberto+Pedreira&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Roberto+Pedreira
Any notable students of his who immigrated to Brazil to teach Judo/Jiu-Jitsu? Looking at their ground work, I see techniques used in BJJ today. I note Rafael Barbosa who OFTEN pulls straight to hook sweeps. The Torreando pass in this video is a staple of BJJ at all levels of competition.
Chadi, i think u made a mistake soke is headmaster, not equivalent to 4th dan. Similar to Yoshinkan Aikido founder Soke Gozo Shida (btw did u read the interview of him and Kimura? They were from same university)
Shutaro Debana is a judoka whose highest achievement was 3rd place in 2004 All Japan Judo Selection Weight Division Championship -73kg Class. He drew with Gracie Hunter Kazushi Sakuraba in QUINTET Free Fight (all strikes are prohibited). th-cam.com/video/qNypaF3TuLo/w-d-xo.html Even a 2nd rated judoka like Debana drew with Sakuraba in a grappling match. This proves that judo has absolutely nothing to learn from BJJ. But judo still has much to learn from wrestling as the following video shows. th-cam.com/video/s4B96ZZM9D4/w-d-xo.html Ryo Kawabata (in white judo-gi) won 2010 Kodokan Cup and 2013 All Japan Judo Selection Weight Division Championship -60kg Class. Shinobu Ota won the Silver in 2016 Olympics 59kg Class Greco-Roman Wrestling, and the Gold in 2019 World Wrestling Championship 63kg Class Greco-Roman Wrestling. Ota, without any experience in judo, scored Ippon from Kawabata. Kawabata said he could not understand what happened. Ota then explained what he did to Kawabata.
I'm obviously not saying that Isogai invented ne waza or ground grappling, but thanks to him the Ne Waza curriculum we have today because of his rivalry with Tanabe was founded, that people like Kanemitsu and Oda (who learned from Hajime Isogai) added to it and it became this sophisticated ground game.
Where did Tanabi get his ground game from? I understand the familiar ground game we have to what was made to defeat him, but what type of ground game was Tanabi using? Was it similar to what was used to defeat him after coming up with counters, transitions, sweeps, etc?
Tanabe says he invented a lot of his own techniques. To me, he is the father or modern Newaza, though I am curious to know about where Samura got his newaza skills.
It was Tanabe, not Hajime Isogai that Kano Jigoro asked to teach Ne Waza to his students, due to Fusen Ryu constantly beating Kodokan. It was Tanabe that included Ashi Garami in the Judo curriculum. So how can you day Hajime Isogai is father of Ne Waza?
Tanabe’s nickname was Ne Waza Tanabe. Tanabe is the father of Ne Waza.
@@Euthyphro With the snake and eel concept I imagine tanabe was using counters and sweeps from the bottom to get on top
I love history and I love martial arts. The old film just adds to your narration. I've been training BJJ for 4 years and I love watching old Japanese judo films on ne waza. Excellent video🥋
Thank you Jaime
@@Chadi I won't say his name he's a highly respected BJJ black belt and respected figure but year's ago I found out about Kosen JUDO so I asked him if you had to rank Kosen JUDO to BJJ belt rank system what would it be ? The guy said blue belt that's offensive in my opinion what do you think ?
@@Chadi another question I've never lived in Japan or know the history like yourself but in Japan besides Kosen Judo that's taught at Kyoto University do they have other forms of JUDO or do they have Kosen JUDO schools or just JUDO schools in general outside of Kyoto that mainly focus on Newaza ????
Once again lad you have come too scratch and delivered a mighty blow. Thank you for keeping alive the memory of Professor Isogai. God bless you and your family.
Thank you 🙇🏻♂️
By the style of clothing this is judo, jiujitsu clothes had short sleeves above the elbow and short pants above the knee. Jigoro Kano, the founder of judo, was the one who introduced longer sleeves and pants to protect those areas of the body that hurt a lot when rubbing on the mat.
The footage of Isogai and the arm bars, body triangles and sonmuch us is just amazing.
Benjamin Fry
To me, Tanabe is more the father of Newaza as he started the arms race on the ground. Also, Tanabe’s students (Miyake, Tani, Uyenishi) were the ones sent to England to fight no holds bar against wrestler and boxers, developing what we call the Gracie Combatives. Maeda then became their partners while in Europe and some of Tanabe’s students end up opening schools in Brazil I believe around the time Maeda did as they traveled to Brazil together . Tanabe wasn’t part of the Kodokan
Muchas gracias por este video una auténtica reliquia este video hecha por tierra la teoria de los gracies que han adaptado no han adaptado nada esto ya se hacia en japón muchos años antes
magnifique ce mini documentaire!!! De la part d'un pratiquant de jiu jitsu brésilien, merci pour toute cette richesse historique apportée, tu es un vrai historien des arts martiaux! Et merci de nous faire découvrir des maîtres de judo/jiu jitsu peu connus qui ont posé les bases du newaza
Merci beaucoup pour ce commentaire! Ça me pousse à créer plus du contenu.
If I remember correctly, you referred to the fourth "soke" of Fusen Ryu as equivalent to fouth dan. " Soke" actually means "Family inheritor" or head master. Soke is not a rank, but position. If Kodokan were classical budo, Jigoro Kano would be the first Soke. I am amazed by the amount of great information you are able to come up with and put into these videos and think it is impossible to do them without an occasional small error. Thank you for your work.
Thank you Ken! I wasn't sure either, I'm looking into the ryu gendai etc and planning to make a video detailing the differences between old and new system.
@@Chadi Indeed. The dividing line between koryu and gendai budo may not really exist. If it does exist, then it is obscure to say the least. For example. Daito ryu is certainly gendai by some definitions, but traces it's origins back to truly ancient times. It is a very difficult task and I wish you the best. I look forward to more videos.
Very interesting to see. Thank you for posting!
Thank you Stephen
Buen video!!! Y del bjj también, aunque el video es antiguo, se ven técnicas que se usan en bjj. Siempre he creido que el bjj es judo antiguo. Soy un eterno aprendiz de ambos. Saludos
Gracias Mario!
BJJ is a carbon copy of Judo's ground game.
Thank you very much Chadi for providing such amazing content
Thank you Ralph for watching
磯貝さんは我が地元の偉人。
彼は若い頃、不遷流の田辺さんに寝技で苦しめられてから寝技に目覚め、努力して寝技の名手となった。
牛島さんも岡山の高専選手に寝技で苦しめられてから寝技を極め、その寝技を弟子の木村に教えたことによって木村は立っても寝ても最強の選手となった。。
戦後、佐藤さんという寝技の名手が居たが、彼も元高専出身の先生に鍛えられて寝技師となり、その寝技を弟子の山下に教えたことによって山下は立っても寝ても最強の選手となった。
今は不遷流の先生も高専の先生も居ないから、例えば阿部一二三がBJJの先生から寝技を教われば、阿部一二三も立ち技寝技共にこなせるパーフェクトな選手になるのになぁ…などと思う今日この頃。
私のビデオへのあなたのコメントをありがとう、そして私に聞いてくれてありがとう 感謝しています
高専柔道は七帝柔道として今も行われている。
ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%83%E5%B8%9D%E6%9F%94%E9%81%93
木村政彦の柔道技術は拓殖大学で継承されている。木村はエリオを子ども扱いしてBJJなど完全なゴミ屑であることを証明した。木村ｖｓエリオはサッカーで言えば100対0で圧勝したようなものだ。吉田ｖｓホイスの柔術マッチは予想通り、木村ｖｓエリオの再現であった。この試合で吉田は観客を楽しませるために、わざと7分以上試合を続けたが、それを見ていた古賀稔彦は苛立って、「こんな雑魚相手なら、中村謙三なら10秒で試合を終わらせていた。」、と語っていた。既に世界選手権で2回も金メダルを取っている阿部一二三がBJJ から学ぶことなど何もない。木村も10秒で試合を終わらすことができたのに、それでは面白くないので、関節技や絞め技を20回以上かけては外しを繰り返した。これが柔道の頂点とBJJ の頂点の差である。
Excellent video as usual :)
Thank you Rashid;)
nice video about Newaza!!! I wish that some people practice newaza too...the kids in my dojo are used to after throwing someone you should immediately pin them in any way possible(this is for kids ages 5-16) and if you are at the proper age submissions will be taught. Unfortunately, some schools just concentrate on the standing aspect, and don't teach grounds that much. I'm happy we have a sensei that teaches us both, and from time to time teaches us some banned techniques so that we are to be ready with any grappling tournaments. Keep up the good work sir, the information and knowledge we gain from your videos is a treasure.
I agree Richie i know black belts barely know any osaekomi, thank you for watching
@@Chadi I showed this to my classmates, and seniors, hopefully you get some new subscribers!!!
@@thatasianguy1768 thank you Richie!
Another very informative video ! Thanks, Chadi !
Thank you Donald!
Thank you for your work! I love this channel.
Thank you Silvio
Thanx Chadi.sehr interessant!!!
Amazing Master, thank you Japan for all this.
indeed
You should have this all in a book or at least a site
I'm trying
Keep the good job Bro
Thank you Diogo
Great video. Video of Tsunetane Oda is gold!
Thank you!
For those interested in Japanese Feudal Grappling applications vs. Post feudal Japanese competitive grappling here's a good examination between a canadian master of 1532 Takenouchi Ryu and a Brazilian Jiujitsu Ne Waza professor...th-cam.com/video/PL8ywtIOtfY/w-d-xo.html
Chadi, did Isogai vc and Cho Kawakami get along during the sane epoch?
Beautiful stuff! Too many people think BJJ has a monopoly on ground work. Do you know what year(s) this was filmed?
Around the 1940s
I just got home from my dojo. I'm licking my wounds. My neck hurts from being in neck lock.
Ouch! Stay safe
I'm making friends with an ice pack here.
It is said that Isogai perfected his ne waza with the help of Kaichiro Samura, who was supposedly an expert in ground fighting who had come from the now extinct Takeuchi Santo-ryū and happened to be the son of Masaaki Samura, who himself happened to be the referee in one of the Isogai/Tanabe matches. Is there any more information as for as Kaichiro Samura's newaza or contributions thereof to the Kodokan? And is there any information out there on Takeuchi Santo-ryū's newaza repertoire?
Interesting is that the Yano family supposedly founded Takeuchi Santo-ryu and a Yano Takeo, supposedly of this family, was a student of Isogai Hajime and this Yano Takeo supposedly went/moved to Brazil and fought in jiujitsu and luta livre matches there from the late 1920’s through the 1950’s and developed a professional relationship with a Jorge (George) Gracie. kogenbudo.org/takeuchi-santo-ryu/
Thank you for this
It looks like there is a more current third edition of this Choque book (that covers Brazilian Jiujitsu history from 1859 to 1949) that is readily available and more affordable.
www.amazon.com/Choque-Third-Jiu-Jitsu-1856-1949-History/dp/1533568626/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1600008591&refinements=p_27%3ARoberto+Pedreira&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Roberto+Pedreira
I get what he is saying but they have been grappling for centuries before in JIU JITSU or Judo whatever the correct term is
Any notable students of his who immigrated to Brazil to teach Judo/Jiu-Jitsu? Looking at their ground work, I see techniques used in BJJ today. I note Rafael Barbosa who OFTEN pulls straight to hook sweeps. The Torreando pass in this video is a staple of BJJ at all levels of competition.
Kanemitsu and Oda were under his supervision, Kanemitsu taught the Ono brothers who rivaled the Gracies.
Chadi, i think u made a mistake soke is headmaster, not equivalent to 4th dan. Similar to Yoshinkan Aikido founder Soke Gozo Shida (btw did u read the interview of him and Kimura? They were from same university)
Can you link it???
Is north south choke legal in judo
"Hajime Isogai" ... Just that name is interesting in and of itself.
Exactly
So this is the real father of bjj
Yes! Without this man, the foundation of Kodokan's sophisticated ground work curriculum wouldn't have existed
Lots of good guard passes there
indeed
Is NEWAZA good at throws i dont know to much a out NEWAZA
Ne waza is the ground techniques of Judo, it is part of the judo curriculum
Shutaro Debana is a judoka whose highest achievement was 3rd place in 2004 All Japan Judo Selection Weight Division Championship -73kg Class. He drew with Gracie Hunter Kazushi Sakuraba in QUINTET Free Fight (all strikes are prohibited). th-cam.com/video/qNypaF3TuLo/w-d-xo.html
Even a 2nd rated judoka like Debana drew with Sakuraba in a grappling match. This proves that judo has absolutely nothing to learn from BJJ. But judo still has much to learn from wrestling as the following video shows.
th-cam.com/video/s4B96ZZM9D4/w-d-xo.html
Ryo Kawabata (in white judo-gi) won 2010 Kodokan Cup and 2013 All Japan Judo Selection Weight Division Championship -60kg Class. Shinobu Ota won the Silver in 2016 Olympics 59kg Class Greco-Roman Wrestling, and the Gold in 2019 World Wrestling Championship 63kg Class Greco-Roman Wrestling. Ota, without any experience in judo, scored Ippon from Kawabata. Kawabata said he could not understand what happened. Ota then explained what he did to Kawabata.
Indeed thank you so much
5:35 is so hard to do its like not even worth it lol
The father of....Gracie Jiu Jitsu?
Gracie's claim their creat newaza😏
BJJ Blue Belt, '... but can he Berimbolo?'
Berimbolo video coming soon!
Chadi
I have never Berim or Boloed in my life, and I never will.
But I will watch your video.
sounds like a brazilian BJJ everyday porrada.... lol....
dislikes are from Gracies