I have F83 S55 tuned. S58 extremely strong and easy to become 1200 horsepower. Every five years, BMW develops a new engine. I am happy with the S55, but of course I would love to own the S58 because lots of new technology like fuel pump new dme etc.. and the S58 very convenient for tune..
I own a F82 and was considering change to G82 but have few issues with is mainy the front and also the fact it’s not as nimble as F82. The new car is line an older 5 series.
I recently bought an S55 engine and it came with a convenient Hockenheim Silver carrying package. ;) It's an incredibly torquey engine. I'm curious how the percentage of different parts between the N55 and S55 as compared to the B58 and S58 was calculated. If it's based on counting part numbers, it's somewhat misleading. If you look at the major components, the changes from the B to S engines are not that different. They have different blocks, cylinder heads, crankshafts, pistons, etc.
Hi, the percentage differences are quoted by BMW, but is not a scientific number, because as you very rightly point out, it doesn't specify what is being measured (unique part numbers, part quantities, part weights, part costs, etc). Personally I always take it to mean, how many new engineering drawings had to go through final approval (so when BMW says the S58 is 90% new compared to B58, this means 90% new engineering schematics to build parts), but this is my personal guess and is not based on anything. Much of what BMW and pretty much all manufacturers state are heavily influenced by marketing considerations aswell, so it is always difficult to extract useful scientific conclusions from their press releases.
I saw video where drifters were testing f82 and g80 and s58 was overheating where s55 was still in operational range. Perhaps new regulations a killing m engines
@@NoBrainerTalk Video in Russian language but you can see cars dash with warnings th-cam.com/video/65ykbiYoWWg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=CKnqfuup2vkARbp8 they start their test at 8 min and around 9 minute mark they travel to the dude with m4 and do same test on both cars in same conditions. He said they took it to service and they didn’t find anything wrong with engine
Just watched several of your S58-related videos, absolutely excellent content, thank you. Could you consider doing a breakdown of the changes that go into the S58 competition package?
I'm under the impression that the additional power output for the competition-version engines is through an ECU tune alone (i.e. there are no noteworthy physical changes). However, I will double-check this.
@@rodgazinya Yes, I think so too. I was hoping to find any competition version car on RealOEM fitted with S58 to compare S58 comp and S58 non-comp, but I can't find any comp car fitted with S58 on RealOEM (See M2 for example, there is both M2 and M2 competition on RealOEM). Anyway, I don't think there are any hardware changes, it must be similar to M-Performance Power and Sound Kit (MPPSK) for B58 cars, extra power comes from ECU remap.
There are a number of changes here that will make the S58 quite a bit harder to work on. Injection system, timing chain location, 4th gen VANOS, etc. I feel bad for mechanics.
i have an s55 in my f87 m2. i currently have 25k miles on stage 2 tune. so far its been extremely reliable but its a bit noisy at idle. i think thats been a common complaint wit the s55. seems like the s58 has better turbos and responds better to tunes
Another great videos. Can you comment on the changes done to the S58 for the G90 M3/M4 that the new 2022 LCI X3 refresh got? Is it just a 3D printed cylinder head and perhaps engine mapping? The increased torque rating seems significant based on improved acceleration times. The 3D printing probably allow more optimized flow geometry and boosts low and mid-range torque. Some reviewers say it got a forged crankshaft but I believe the original S58 crank was also forged. I just ordered a 2022 X3 M yesterday!
Hi, there are configuration differences between M3/M4 and X3M/X4M with S58. The engine cover doubles as the intake muffler and combined filter box on the X3M/X4M but the M3/M4 feature a simpler engine cover and traditional separated intake muffler boxes, this means alot of the air ducts are different. There are different braces in the engine bay, differences in the location of coolant expansion tanks and other miscellaneous changes, I believe driven by the space available between the two engine bays (M3/M4 vs X3M/X4M). But I believe the internals (turbos, crankshaft, pistons, block, cylinder head, etc) are identical. All S58s have 3D printed cylinder head, forged pistons, forged crankhaft, etc. The engine mapping difference is between the competition and non competition cars. "Competition package" cars will have more hp and torque purely through the engine mapping, as again the internals are identical.
@@NoBrainerTalk Thanks! Great info. So the 2022 X3 M S58 torque increase is just an engine programming difference, i.e. more boost? There’s no mechanical differences between 2020/2021 and 2022 models?
@@BurnsRubber Correct, they are all S58B30T0 engines and if you have a competition version you get a tune that gives you more power. Even with the competition tune, it's probably still underpowered (probably power will increase further with more limited edition versions like CS).
I've also noticed the S58 engine uses the main cap design for the crankshft, while the S55 block has a solid two-piece design with fixed girdles. Does this mean that the S55 block would be slightly more robust?
Hi there, one way BMW has been able to increase the power of the S58 over the S55 is by optimising the design to minimize pressure losses, hence the S58 engine block is designed to be continuously subjected to higher pressures. It therefore needs to be more robust than previous designs. It's also unlikely that it was designed just for max output of 510hp of the competition package engines, it's quite likely that future variants e.g. in future LCI or limited edition M-Cars, could have an even higher power output. I would therefore personally conclude that the S58 block is designed to be more robust than the S55's.
@@NoBrainerTalkThanks for your reply! Makes a lot sense considering there are more powerful upcoming models equip with the S58 and S58 has to be more robust to handle the extra power
I think the M division followed a very similar formula (in the case of both S55 and S58) in terms of what they added and what they removed compared to the baseline engine. However the baseline engine design is what truly drives fuel efficiency and performance potential. Having said that, the S58 is 90% new compared to the B58TU (maybe would have been different percentage compared with 1st gen B58) so possibly you are right... You make an interesting point!
Do you left out the boost level the new engine is boosted at over 20 psi, where the old engine only needed half of that to make almost the same power. The older engine is a more powerful engine, most likely due to the regulations.
Actually the S55 has lower fuel consumption and lower emissions according to BMW, and it seems to be confirmed in real life. Keep in mind the S58 is fitted to heavier cars so it has to do more work to accomplish the same performance as the S55. If someone fits an S58 into an F80 M3 for example, then we could really see how much the engines are different in economy. Or alternatively maybe cut 200kg off a G80 M3 is another way to do a comparison..
Hi, so I did not include details about weight because I do not have accurate information. There is some weight information available but the exact peripherals included is unclear (i.e. how the dressed the engine is in each case). Some sources place the dry weight of the N55 at about 190kg, and the S55 at about 205kg. This means the M-Division added roughly 15kg of weight with the modifications made (second fuel pump, etc). At the time the M-Division said that the two smaller single scroll turbos did not weigh much more than the single twin scroll turbo, so with the use of more advanced materials they kept the weight increase to a minimum. In any case the B58 weighs less than the N55, at about 140kg. In the case of the S58, the M-Division modified the B58 engine more substantially, including deletion of the heat management module. I would therefore purely guess that the S58 did not gain more than 15kg over the baseline B58, so I would purely guess that the S58 should be approx. 155kg. So it is my pure guess that the S58 could weigh as much as 60kg less than the S55 (but of course I could be completely wrong as this is based on many assumptions). MY COMMENT IS INACCURATE AND SHOULD BE IGNORED... :)
@@NoBrainerTalk This is very interesting information and more than I've been able to find myself. Are you sure the B58 is that much lighter than the N55? I read somewhere it was actually 10kg heavier.
@@harbl2479 Hey there, I am completely unsure is the honest answer. 🥺😨 Some sources place the weight of both N55 and B58 engines at between 130-133kg, so everything I said before could be wrong! Actually, let's just say it's wrong. The only weight that is confirmed by BMW is the weight of the S55 at 205kg. But we don't actually know what components are included or excluded in each case, so we might be comparing apples with oranges. Ignore my previous answer, and if you are able to find an accurate weight for each engine I will be very interested to know. :)
I'm subbing, this was one of the most direct and informative videos on BMW engines
I have F83 S55 tuned. S58 extremely strong and easy to become 1200 horsepower. Every five years, BMW develops a new engine. I am happy with the S55, but of course I would love to own the S58 because lots of new technology like fuel pump new dme etc.. and the S58 very convenient for tune..
I own a F82 and was considering change to G82 but have few issues with is mainy the front and also the fact it’s not as nimble as F82. The new car is line an older 5 series.
I dream of a world where your channel would be the standard for what a 'no brainer talk' is.
Thanks for the valuable information, as always!
Thank you for such kind words...
🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷👏🏻, S58, the best engine BMW has ever made!
Bad ass presentation. I really enjoyed it.
After reviewing the information presented here, it is a no brainer, I just subscribed!
Thank you for you're time and genius. Great in depth explanation of both engines as a s55 owner im honored to see this video! 🍻
Do a video on n54 n55 and b58 comparison
I recently bought an S55 engine and it came with a convenient Hockenheim Silver carrying package. ;) It's an incredibly torquey engine. I'm curious how the percentage of different parts between the N55 and S55 as compared to the B58 and S58 was calculated. If it's based on counting part numbers, it's somewhat misleading. If you look at the major components, the changes from the B to S engines are not that different. They have different blocks, cylinder heads, crankshafts, pistons, etc.
I agree
Hi, the percentage differences are quoted by BMW, but is not a scientific number, because as you very rightly point out, it doesn't specify what is being measured (unique part numbers, part quantities, part weights, part costs, etc). Personally I always take it to mean, how many new engineering drawings had to go through final approval (so when BMW says the S58 is 90% new compared to B58, this means 90% new engineering schematics to build parts), but this is my personal guess and is not based on anything. Much of what BMW and pretty much all manufacturers state are heavily influenced by marketing considerations aswell, so it is always difficult to extract useful scientific conclusions from their press releases.
I saw video where drifters were testing f82 and g80 and s58 was overheating where s55 was still in operational range. Perhaps new regulations a killing m engines
Sounds interesting, would love to check out the video if you have the link.
@@NoBrainerTalk Video in Russian language but you can see cars dash with warnings th-cam.com/video/65ykbiYoWWg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=CKnqfuup2vkARbp8 they start their test at 8 min and around 9 minute mark they travel to the dude with m4 and do same test on both cars in same conditions. He said they took it to service and they didn’t find anything wrong with engine
Superb video 👍
Just watched several of your S58-related videos, absolutely excellent content, thank you.
Could you consider doing a breakdown of the changes that go into the S58 competition package?
I'm under the impression that the additional power output for the competition-version engines is through an ECU tune alone (i.e. there are no noteworthy physical changes). However, I will double-check this.
It's just more aggressive software. Engine is the same
@@rodgazinya Yes, I think so too. I was hoping to find any competition version car on RealOEM fitted with S58 to compare S58 comp and S58 non-comp, but I can't find any comp car fitted with S58 on RealOEM (See M2 for example, there is both M2 and M2 competition on RealOEM). Anyway, I don't think there are any hardware changes, it must be similar to M-Performance Power and Sound Kit (MPPSK) for B58 cars, extra power comes from ECU remap.
Awesome video, great information. Just curious as to what your history is with these engines/BMW? You are very knowledgeable about them!
Thank you, just a very happy owner of one or two BMWs. ;)
Very good comparison mate 👍
There are a number of changes here that will make the S58 quite a bit harder to work on. Injection system, timing chain location, 4th gen VANOS, etc. I feel bad for mechanics.
Can confirm, plugs are surely easier to remove on the S58 than the S55.
i have an s55 in my f87 m2. i currently have 25k miles on stage 2 tune. so far its been extremely reliable but its a bit noisy at idle. i think thats been a common complaint wit the s55. seems like the s58 has better turbos and responds better to tunes
Thanks for sharing.
S55 already a remarkable engine. Drive it feels unstoppable source of power.
Intro lick dissolved my brain
🤣😂
Great video
Another great videos. Can you comment on the changes done to the S58 for the G90 M3/M4 that the new 2022 LCI X3 refresh got? Is it just a 3D printed cylinder head and perhaps engine mapping? The increased torque rating seems significant based on improved acceleration times. The 3D printing probably allow more optimized flow geometry and boosts low and mid-range torque. Some reviewers say it got a forged crankshaft but I believe the original S58 crank was also forged. I just ordered a 2022 X3 M yesterday!
Hi, there are configuration differences between M3/M4 and X3M/X4M with S58. The engine cover doubles as the intake muffler and combined filter box on the X3M/X4M but the M3/M4 feature a simpler engine cover and traditional separated intake muffler boxes, this means alot of the air ducts are different. There are different braces in the engine bay, differences in the location of coolant expansion tanks and other miscellaneous changes, I believe driven by the space available between the two engine bays (M3/M4 vs X3M/X4M). But I believe the internals (turbos, crankshaft, pistons, block, cylinder head, etc) are identical. All S58s have 3D printed cylinder head, forged pistons, forged crankhaft, etc. The engine mapping difference is between the competition and non competition cars. "Competition package" cars will have more hp and torque purely through the engine mapping, as again the internals are identical.
@@NoBrainerTalk Thanks! Great info. So the 2022 X3 M S58 torque increase is just an engine programming difference, i.e. more boost? There’s no mechanical differences between 2020/2021 and 2022 models?
@@BurnsRubber Correct, they are all S58B30T0 engines and if you have a competition version you get a tune that gives you more power. Even with the competition tune, it's probably still underpowered (probably power will increase further with more limited edition versions like CS).
I've also noticed the S58 engine uses the main cap design for the crankshft, while the S55 block has a solid two-piece design with fixed girdles. Does this mean that the S55 block would be slightly more robust?
Hi there, one way BMW has been able to increase the power of the S58 over the S55 is by optimising the design to minimize pressure losses, hence the S58 engine block is designed to be continuously subjected to higher pressures. It therefore needs to be more robust than previous designs. It's also unlikely that it was designed just for max output of 510hp of the competition package engines, it's quite likely that future variants e.g. in future LCI or limited edition M-Cars, could have an even higher power output. I would therefore personally conclude that the S58 block is designed to be more robust than the S55's.
@@NoBrainerTalkThanks for your reply! Makes a lot sense considering there are more powerful upcoming models equip with the S58 and S58 has to be more robust to handle the extra power
What about the crank hub? Will the S58 be a 1 piece crank or a 2 piece like the S55?
On the S58 the hub is one piece with the crankshaft.
So basically S58 has more similarities with S55 than B58.
I think the M division followed a very similar formula (in the case of both S55 and S58) in terms of what they added and what they removed compared to the baseline engine. However the baseline engine design is what truly drives fuel efficiency and performance potential. Having said that, the S58 is 90% new compared to the B58TU (maybe would have been different percentage compared with 1st gen B58) so possibly you are right... You make an interesting point!
Do you left out the boost level the new engine is boosted at over 20 psi, where the old engine only needed half of that to make almost the same power. The older engine is a more powerful engine, most likely due to the regulations.
Crank hub design for these two engines ?
I believe the S58 uses the B58's design (4 bolt).
Which engine is more fuel efficient?
Actually the S55 has lower fuel consumption and lower emissions according to BMW, and it seems to be confirmed in real life. Keep in mind the S58 is fitted to heavier cars so it has to do more work to accomplish the same performance as the S55. If someone fits an S58 into an F80 M3 for example, then we could really see how much the engines are different in economy. Or alternatively maybe cut 200kg off a G80 M3 is another way to do a comparison..
@@NoBrainerTalk 👍 Thanks, that would be an interesting project for comparison.
What about the weight?
Hi, so I did not include details about weight because I do not have accurate information. There is some weight information available but the exact peripherals included is unclear (i.e. how the dressed the engine is in each case). Some sources place the dry weight of the N55 at about 190kg, and the S55 at about 205kg. This means the M-Division added roughly 15kg of weight with the modifications made (second fuel pump, etc). At the time the M-Division said that the two smaller single scroll turbos did not weigh much more than the single twin scroll turbo, so with the use of more advanced materials they kept the weight increase to a minimum. In any case the B58 weighs less than the N55, at about 140kg. In the case of the S58, the M-Division modified the B58 engine more substantially, including deletion of the heat management module. I would therefore purely guess that the S58 did not gain more than 15kg over the baseline B58, so I would purely guess that the S58 should be approx. 155kg. So it is my pure guess that the S58 could weigh as much as 60kg less than the S55 (but of course I could be completely wrong as this is based on many assumptions). MY COMMENT IS INACCURATE AND SHOULD BE IGNORED... :)
@@NoBrainerTalk This is very interesting information and more than I've been able to find myself. Are you sure the B58 is that much lighter than the N55? I read somewhere it was actually 10kg heavier.
@@harbl2479 Hey there, I am completely unsure is the honest answer. 🥺😨 Some sources place the weight of both N55 and B58 engines at between 130-133kg, so everything I said before could be wrong! Actually, let's just say it's wrong. The only weight that is confirmed by BMW is the weight of the S55 at 205kg. But we don't actually know what components are included or excluded in each case, so we might be comparing apples with oranges. Ignore my previous answer, and if you are able to find an accurate weight for each engine I will be very interested to know. :)
@@NoBrainerTalk I store info at the back of my head, that the B58 dry wieght is 139kg.
Ok NoBrainer why don't you link to your sources? Here you go everyone: www.bimmerpost.com/goodiesforyou/docs/ST1926-S58-Engine.pdf
Nice, thanks!