Very great idea, I use one similar to that for my Old Atlas mill, and my G 0709 + my other lathes, they won't go over 4000 RPM, make a lever to hold the closer from being thrown out, very impressed with your work, great job. 👍👍
Another great and extremely informative video. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your vast wealth of knowledge, you are a gifted and very talented millwright 🙂.
Good point about getting behind work. That’s another advantage I did not consider. High speed production work is also a very good aspect. There’s no such thing as a perfect scroll chuck and even if you had a perfectly balanced four jaw chuck it would be much too slow for production work. Thank you. These are the kind of things your just not going to learn as a hobbyist. When someone is putting food on the table as a professional machinist, they just know more, make fewer mistakes, and have natural effective work flow.
The Timken bearing pulls the draw bar to center when tightening and makes releasing the collet easier but takes up more room than just a flat thrust bearing. Thanks!
I would like to do that I am enough at ease after 500 videos to meet any challenge. I just don't know how to do it yet, all I have is a low powered lap top and a go pro9
Hey Don, I have a 14" Clausing 6313 or something like that , the hydraulic variable speed model.... I purchased a Royal hand wheel closer 5C collet closer and spindle nose....It cost about $900....but that was in the dark ages.... 1997.....I ended up giving to Lyle Peterson [Mr Pete 222] for his Clausing...as my gal ended up out of commission due to unforeseen circumstances and weather.....anyway, this wa a super informative video, and I thank you so much......Paul
Very interesting and clever. Can you please show how the chuck centering mechanism works? Is it just three set screws? Are they fine threaded? What do they bear on? Thanks!
Very informative! I'd like to hear your views on Set-Tru or similar adjustable chucks in general. I can dial in my 5C (D1-4) ST to a tenth but it appears to drift over time. Seems like more when off the machine for a period vs mounted on the spindle. I've tried different torque settings on the set screws & axial/retention bolts (too much? too little? its not specified). Maybe this system is intended to be tweaked more often vs. set & forget? Rob Renzetti did an interesting video showing chuck body distortion of these radial adjust systems.
Yes, any forces at all show up working in tenths. The adjust true chucks should be more carefully by not having tension on the side adjusting screws when the front screws set. The best conventional chucking is with a small as possible 4 jaw chuck, and even there the chuck jaws need even tension not to distort the chuck body, the ultimate is a shrink chuck where the workpiece is simply held using a steel disk with a slightly under size hole, that may be needed to avoid stress risers from chuck jaws on some materials. Thanks!
Donnie- Amazing video. Lots of knowledge you shared here. I honestly did not know all those things about drawbars and 5C collets. What are your opinions on the ER collet system ? Like ER32 or ER40 ? There are smaller ones too. I know you can get ER collets on a flat flange adapter. Nice for set-true mounting them. Are their double tapers good for accuracy or do they fight their alignments? Interested to know your thoughts. THanks. ---Doozer
The Boeing company switched from Erickson double angle collets to the ER system in the 1980s because of better overall performance. I used Erickson from the 1980s because Boeing sold out so cheap. I bought my first ER 40 set for the horizontal mill and a holder for my lathe and drill and it is working really good. The only small problem is a part rotates when tightening the collet, the 5c stays fixed from its locating slot making it better on the cutter grinder work head for easier positioning of a tool. I have read that the ER are the most accurate available when they cost $171 each!
@@deedeeindustrialsuperprecision Thank you Donnie for your insight. I have an all Hardinge 5C set from 1/16 to 1" and a bunch of larger pot chucks and step collets. I have a Tsugami chucker, which is a copy of a Hardinge HC. I also have an HLV-H. I started with a cheaper ER40 set for my SIP MP5 jig borer, and I am going to fit a face plate on my B&S #13 grinder with an ER40 adapter as well. It is good to know the ER system is a good collet system. THanks. ---Doozer
Great discussion on 5c issues, I have the Monarch nose 5c chuck for my 10ee, but never built the drawbar (on the list), but do have the handwheel chuck along with a collet chuck, I have a lever closer for my Clausing 6313….never thought of the possibility of what you discussed…thanks for sharing
I understand how a collet chuck for the lathe can be useful for doing repetitive production type work on nominal diameter size stock. Are there any other advantages over a reasonably accurate three jaw or four jaw when you need the precision? Thank you in advance.
You can get behind a workpiece easier, polish and have your hands close better with collet chucks, I mostly found a 4 jaw is hard to beat. I will do a demo with scroll chuck and show what happens when they are sped up to top speeds, thanks!
OOps! We woke up Charlie again lol. Now I'm a little confused. A millwright made a Precision tool on a Tool Makers lathe. Or did a Toolmaker make it? If a Millwright made it, they were a Top Shelf Millwright. Now I have a serious question. I bought 2 brand new Harding HlHV lathes (for our Toolroom where I worked) both tooled with factory lever closures and 5-c collets. I once heard that Harding developed the 5-c collet and theirs is better than any others. Does Harding still guarantee .0002 with their collets and closure?
Most manufacturers will have a line of high precision collets I have not had to purchase 5c collets in a very long time. I saw a price of $171 for a single precision ER 40 collet recently.
Around here (NJ/NY - North East) the scrap yards won't allow you to peruse what they have out of fear of liability. Most of us are left to purchase raw materials which sometimes cost more than purchasing a finished or semi finished product. Quite sad....
It is rapidly changing here, you my have seen old Robert in my video at the recovery yard, that is how long left on the clock for that scrap pile. I have got all I can take with me, I am getting out of here.
@@deedeeindustrialsuperprecision I was just saying when round stock runs down on the bed ways its self some thing is not level. Was not being a butt. I love your videos also.
This is the best informational video so far! I’ll have to watch several times, and take notes. Thanks for sharing, have a great day.
Hi Thanks!
Very great idea, I use one similar to that for my Old Atlas mill, and my G 0709 + my other lathes, they won't go over 4000 RPM, make a lever to hold the closer from being thrown out, very impressed with your work, great job. 👍👍
Thanks for the warnings on the handwheel closers. When everyone quietly stops making them it's telling.
I inquired about parts from Royal several years ago, they had some parts but discontinued sales of the complete closer.
You just gave me ideas for improving my Hardinge TL5 draw bar. Thanks Don. That is why I watch lots of machine videos.
Glad to hear it! I find bits and pieces I can use too poking around, thanks!
Hey D D I enjoy all of your videos. I was a tool and die guy and you have taught me quite a few new things. Pet the Dachshund for me.
She says thanks for that, and its about time!
Another great and extremely informative video.
Thanks so much for taking the time to share your vast wealth of knowledge, you are a gifted and very talented millwright 🙂.
My grandfather was a WW1 Navy machinist and my dad was a WW2 Army Air Corps Line Chief, sort of a super mechanic, I just grew up with it.
@@deedeeindustrialsuperprecision Three of my four sons were in the Navy, one still is, a combat diver. I thank your family for their service.
Good point about getting behind work. That’s another advantage I did not consider. High speed production work is also a very good aspect. There’s no such thing as a perfect scroll chuck and even if you had a perfectly balanced four jaw chuck it would be much too slow for production work. Thank you. These are the kind of things your just not going to learn as a hobbyist. When someone is putting food on the table as a professional machinist, they just know more, make fewer mistakes, and have natural effective work flow.
That is partially it, there was survival of the fittest, no union to save your lazy ass, you work and figure things out
Beautiful piece and great idea! I was thinking thrust bearing and you presented much better with the Timken...really nice.
The Timken bearing pulls the draw bar to center when tightening and makes releasing the collet easier but takes up more room than just a flat thrust bearing. Thanks!
Awesome piece of advice dee dee! You should organize a live session so we can ask you questions!
I would like to do that I am enough at ease after 500 videos to meet any challenge. I just don't know how to do it yet, all I have is a low powered lap top and a go pro9
Hey Don,
I have a 14" Clausing 6313 or something like that , the hydraulic
variable speed model.... I purchased a Royal hand wheel closer 5C collet closer
and spindle nose....It cost about $900....but that was in the dark ages....
1997.....I ended up giving to Lyle Peterson [Mr Pete 222] for his Clausing...as my gal
ended up out of commission due to unforeseen circumstances and weather.....anyway,
this wa a super informative video, and I thank you so much......Paul
You are welcome! Royal quietly dropped the handwheel closer some years ago.
@@deedeeindustrialsuperprecision probably lack of sales????anyway, Lyle 'Mr Pete' now has one for his lathe.....cheers...Paul
Very interesting and clever. Can you please show how the chuck centering mechanism works? Is it just three set screws? Are they fine threaded? What do they bear on? Thanks!
Next video at the end shows two versions, thanks
Can’t you build one with a running groove and fork retainer for the draw bar .??🇦🇺🐈⬛😎
Awesome
Thanks!
my 1942 Leblond regal 13 has the hand wheel collet closure, so far so good, of course I make it point never to leave it in .
I have heard stories of little draw bars flying around in the watch trade days
Amen. I kludged a honk-o-junk collet closer and the parts I produced were +/- .002". Duhhh I been wonderingwhy. Thanks Dee.
you are sure welcome thanks!
Very informative! I'd like to hear your views on Set-Tru or similar adjustable chucks in general. I can dial in my 5C (D1-4) ST to a tenth but it appears to drift over time. Seems like more when off the machine for a period vs mounted on the spindle. I've tried different torque settings on the set screws & axial/retention bolts (too much? too little? its not specified). Maybe this system is intended to be tweaked more often vs. set & forget? Rob Renzetti did an interesting video showing chuck body distortion of these radial adjust systems.
Yes, any forces at all show up working in tenths. The adjust true chucks should be more carefully by not having tension on the side adjusting screws when the front screws set. The best conventional chucking is with a small as possible 4 jaw chuck, and even there the chuck jaws need even tension not to distort the chuck body, the ultimate is a shrink chuck where the workpiece is simply held using a steel disk with a slightly under size hole, that may be needed to avoid stress risers from chuck jaws on some materials. Thanks!
@@deedeeindustrialsuperprecision great info Sir....cheers, Paul
Donnie- Amazing video. Lots of knowledge you shared here. I honestly did not know all those things about drawbars and 5C collets. What are your opinions on the ER collet system ? Like ER32 or ER40 ? There are smaller ones too. I know you can get ER collets on a flat flange adapter. Nice for set-true mounting them. Are their double tapers good for accuracy or do they fight their alignments? Interested to know your thoughts. THanks. ---Doozer
The Boeing company switched from Erickson double angle collets to the ER system in the 1980s because of better overall performance. I used Erickson from the 1980s because Boeing sold out so cheap. I bought my first ER 40 set for the horizontal mill and a holder for my lathe and drill and it is working really good. The only small problem is a part rotates when tightening the collet, the 5c stays fixed from its locating slot making it better on the cutter grinder work head for easier positioning of a tool.
I have read that the ER are the most accurate available when they cost $171 each!
@@deedeeindustrialsuperprecision Thank you Donnie for your insight. I have an all Hardinge 5C set from 1/16 to 1" and a bunch of larger pot chucks and step collets. I have a Tsugami chucker, which is a copy of a Hardinge HC. I also have an HLV-H. I started with a cheaper ER40 set for my SIP MP5 jig borer, and I am going to fit a face plate on my B&S #13 grinder with an ER40 adapter as well. It is good to know the ER system is a good collet system. THanks. ---Doozer
Great discussion on 5c issues, I have the Monarch nose 5c chuck for my 10ee, but never built the drawbar (on the list), but do have the handwheel chuck along with a collet chuck, I have a lever closer for my Clausing 6313….never thought of the possibility of what you discussed…thanks for sharing
I understand how a collet chuck for the lathe can be useful for doing repetitive production type work on nominal diameter size stock. Are there any other advantages over a reasonably accurate three jaw or four jaw when you need the precision? Thank you in advance.
You can get behind a workpiece easier, polish and have your hands close better with collet chucks, I mostly found a 4 jaw is hard to beat. I will do a demo with scroll chuck and show what happens when they are sped up to top speeds, thanks!
OOps! We woke up Charlie again lol. Now I'm a little confused. A millwright made a Precision tool on a Tool Makers lathe. Or did a Toolmaker make it? If a Millwright made it, they were a Top Shelf Millwright. Now I have a serious question. I bought 2 brand new Harding HlHV lathes (for our Toolroom where I worked) both tooled with factory lever closures and 5-c collets. I once heard that Harding developed the 5-c collet and theirs is better than any others. Does Harding still guarantee .0002 with their collets and closure?
Most manufacturers will have a line of high precision collets I have not had to purchase 5c collets in a very long time. I saw a price of $171 for a single precision ER 40 collet recently.
Around here (NJ/NY - North East) the scrap yards won't allow you to peruse what they have out of fear of liability. Most of us are left to purchase raw materials which sometimes cost more than purchasing a finished or semi finished product. Quite sad....
It is rapidly changing here, you my have seen old Robert in my video at the recovery yard, that is how long left on the clock for that scrap pile. I have got all I can take with me, I am getting out of here.
you should level that lathe
Dont you know it does not need it, do you ever read instructions?
@@deedeeindustrialsuperprecision I was just saying when round stock runs down on the bed ways its self some thing is not level. Was not being a butt. I love your videos also.