In the Fux example, is the Bb in measure 4 used to keep the interval from D to Bb in the melodic minor scale? The effect is beautiful. I've tried this with B natural and it is very plain - perhaps wrong?
Good question. It is hard to tell if B natural would have been incorrect. My only guess as to a rule that could have been broken is a very obscure version of the “Mi against Fa” rule that prohibits two consecutive major thirds (G-B in m4 and F-A in m5 because of the tritone between B and F). This rule is very old fashioned and is broken pretty regularly.
Can you move down a step from a consonance to disonance? For example: B D C B G D G A 7th is created between the C and D but it was approach in step motion, is that allowed?
Good question. In real music, you will often see the seventh of a seventh chord used as a dissonant preparation of a suspension, or a passing tone tied across the bar line. But in strict counterpoint the preparation must always be a consonance, so dissonances should not occur on the weak beat of any 4th species exercise. That’s just the rules of this particular “mini game.”
@@JacobGran thank you, and when we diverge to 2nd species counterpoint (if needed) during an excersice, can the weak beat in that bar be a passing dissonance (for it's allowed in 2nd species)?
Hi, Dr. Gran. Great video, thanks for it. I have a doubt, when I tried to write a fourth species counterpoint below the Schoenberg Cantus Firmus you put at the end of the video, I find the 2-3-1 cadence means to either write a dissonance (descendent 4th) in the upbeat of the antepenultimate note (F) or writing a 2nd in downbeat of the penultimate note (D)… what would be the correct solution for this? Thanks in advance!
That's a very good question that hadn't occurred to me. Actually it seems the most fluent thing to do would be to break the species here and adopt a first species cadence, a whole note B in the penultimate measure.
th-cam.com/video/olvz-4tKiRc/w-d-xo.html in this example we have 3 measures that start with fifth. is it ok? i have read boyden's and stoks's books and I think each one says different.
@@Parsapotter in that example, Fux wanted to limit himself to only consonant suspensions, which is why so many of the intervals are perfect. In a normal exercise, we wouldn’t want so many perfect intervals, not because they create incorrect voice leading (parallels or anything like that) but because perfect intervals sound hollow and “lack harmony” as Fux put it. Perfect intervals on consecutive downbeats are more tolerable in fourth species than in second or third because the suspension weakens the strength of the downbeat and creates a sense of oblique motion
Thank you for your videos, very helpful and demonstrative
Iam emotionally grateful for this
In the Fux example, is the Bb in measure 4 used to keep the interval from D to Bb in the melodic minor scale? The effect is beautiful. I've tried this with B natural and it is very plain - perhaps wrong?
Good question. It is hard to tell if B natural would have been incorrect. My only guess as to a rule that could have been broken is a very obscure version of the “Mi against Fa” rule that prohibits two consecutive major thirds (G-B in m4 and F-A in m5 because of the tritone between B and F). This rule is very old fashioned and is broken pretty regularly.
@@JacobGran Thank you for the reply. That helps. I wish I had studied counterpoint earlier in my musical life, but your lessons have really helped.
Can you move down a step from a consonance to disonance?
For example:
B D C B
G D G
A 7th is created between the C and D but it was approach in step motion, is that allowed?
Good question. In real music, you will often see the seventh of a seventh chord used as a dissonant preparation of a suspension, or a passing tone tied across the bar line. But in strict counterpoint the preparation must always be a consonance, so dissonances should not occur on the weak beat of any 4th species exercise. That’s just the rules of this particular “mini game.”
@@JacobGran thank you, and when we diverge to 2nd species counterpoint (if needed) during an excersice, can the weak beat in that bar be a passing dissonance (for it's allowed in 2nd species)?
Hi, Dr. Gran.
Great video, thanks for it.
I have a doubt, when I tried to write a fourth species counterpoint below the Schoenberg Cantus Firmus you put at the end of the video, I find the 2-3-1 cadence means to either write a dissonance (descendent 4th) in the upbeat of the antepenultimate note (F) or writing a 2nd in downbeat of the penultimate note (D)… what would be the correct solution for this?
Thanks in advance!
That's a very good question that hadn't occurred to me. Actually it seems the most fluent thing to do would be to break the species here and adopt a first species cadence, a whole note B in the penultimate measure.
Really good explanation
Great tutorial! Thank you so much!
should we also avoid parlor fifth and octaves in each down beat ? I mean in any species
th-cam.com/video/olvz-4tKiRc/w-d-xo.html in this example we have 3 measures that start with fifth. is it ok? i have read boyden's and stoks's books and I think each one says different.
its not clear for me when to use or avoid fifth and octaves.
@@Parsapotter in that example, Fux wanted to limit himself to only consonant suspensions, which is why so many of the intervals are perfect. In a normal exercise, we wouldn’t want so many perfect intervals, not because they create incorrect voice leading (parallels or anything like that) but because perfect intervals sound hollow and “lack harmony” as Fux put it. Perfect intervals on consecutive downbeats are more tolerable in fourth species than in second or third because the suspension weakens the strength of the downbeat and creates a sense of oblique motion
DON'T DO THAT