Sugar talked herself out of a win at final tribal because she thought she couldn’t win. Even Randy said in his pre-final tribal confessional that he would consider giving her a vote but she told him not to at final tribal. She had a screw you attitude at final tribal which does not help you win votes.
Stop it. The girl just lost her father and there was literally nothing "screw you" about her attitude outside of Corrine. This is a freezing cold take if you listened to any of the juror's after game interviews.
There's a difference between a "screw you" attitude and a "I'm not gonna bother" attitude. As odd as it came to be, Sugar had more influence on the game than anyone on that jury, and they resented it. Sugar decided not to bother trying to sway them to see her worth. She knew their bitterness wouldn't grant her their vote.
It's more of a "I cannot care anymore" thing because it seems everyone wanted to screw her over I mean they didn't even send her to exile for a good reason they just hated her. It's hard to keep caring when most people don't seem to like you
I think Kass kind of explains why she didn't vote for Spencer in her response, at least it's implied. When she told him that he played like Chaos Kass, she was trying to get him to admit that he was wrong to criticize her gameplay the way he did; instead, he just says that he's changed which doesn't give Kass the acknowledgement that her gameplay deserved.
JT burying Stephen at FTC is a brilliant social play. It gets slept upon bc he was likely winning 7-0 anyway, but he completely stunned his competition by lashing out in the way he did. I'm surprised more people don't try this, especially considering how many alliances end up at ftc together.
Dee did this to an extent, she basically let Austin HAVE IT and I was even shook she went hard like that... I LOVE when that happens. Sophie also called out Coach on the whole HII and how it was found.
@randomyoutuber0524 Where's your sources? Everything I've ever heard has stated Tyson was the only one who was going to vote for him. Some people seemed open to voting for him, but were leaning JT going in. Here is what the jury looked like going in Brendan- was team JT from day 1 of the merge. Wanted JT to win at the cost of his own game if needed. Tyson- Respected Stephen's game more than JT's. Sierra- Didn't like or respect Stephen for lying to people. Liked JT. Debby- Liked both boys. Seemed to respect JT more, especially when Stephen didn't own he'd have voted JT out. Coach- Liked JT much more as he didn't vote him out. Taj- was hurt by Stephen's betrayal. Erin- wasn't really seen being close to either. She knew her chances were better with Stephen. She probably respected JT more.
@@Rames28 Don't think so. Sarah would have won. But for suuuuuuure, Michelle deserved the 2nd place. Fuck, she was on her own and the was telling everyone that Tony was a huge threat. Thank you Denise, Ben and co.
I genuinely think sugar could’ve gotten a 7-1 vote if she answerd correctly bc some of kota tribe was giving her a chance and only talked to her (Charlie, Marcus, Randy etc.) and better answers overall like to Kenny, crystal, and Marty I guess but no way she would get Corrine
I really don't think so. I think Sugar's only potential votes based on everything we have from the actual jurors were Randy (because he was SO ANGRY with all 3), Marcus seemed on the fence, Kenny I was a little surprised didn't vote for her but those are the best case 3. And that's 3 including a Randy who hated her, that's not great. Matty was going for Susie regardless, they had a bond that was apparently way deeper than shown in the show and he didn't really have any respect for Sugar's game. Crystal was still made at her and had a better relationship with Susie. Corrine you more or less covered. Charlie has stated he was voting for Bob regardless. So her best case was to convince the 3 jurors who have admitted they COULD vote for her to vote for her and split the 4 who under no circumstances considered voting for her. Now fortunately those 4 are split and aren't moving. But oh boy the final tribal speech to win over Randy is.........a thing.
Matty was NEVER voting her after she betrayed him, and Charlie, Marcus, Corrine were always voting Bob in that Final 3. Sugar's best case is somehow getting Ken, Crystal, Randy, but I really don't see Crystal voting her as she was also bitter at Sugar for her blindside, or Randy who hated Sugar even though he hated all 3. And even if she got all Susie gives it to Bob in the tiebreaker of the 3-3-1 vote, over Sugar, for sure.
She was up against Tony and the other chick who got voted out day 1 and grinded her way to get back in the game and somehow managed to get to the finals so it makes sense she didn’t get a vote
I think most zero-vote finalists end up that way because of their own mistakes. A couple of exceptions are JT in Tocantins and Michele in Winners at War. They just had the misfortune of being against unbeatable opponents. I agree that Michele should have finished second, but it was more important to make sure the right person (Tony) won, so I applaud the jurors.
Yeah, to me all that really matters is who wins it. Voting to ensure someone gets second or remains third isn't how I want people voting. They're there to vote for who they think should win.
Im genuine in asking this bc I haven't rewatched WaW in a while, but what did michelle do to deserve a vote? As far as I remember her entire post merge game was atrocious, she never got a footing, and would've been voted out at final five if she didn't get to play an immunity challenge she'd already done before. Only redeeming part of her game that I can remember was surviving tribe swap. I agree that natalie didn't really deserve votes, but I don't think michelle was much better.
@@nathangaspacio6128I know some people were bothered that Natalie made it to the end through the Edge, and felt she didn't deserve any votes due to that (and by extension shouldn't have been ahead of Michele). Aside from that, I don't really remember why people think she deserved votes. Between her and Tony, Tony played the better game hands down and if you're voting for who should win then he should still get the votes.
Thank you for mentioning Hannah. Games like hers shows how subconcious bias is prevalent in decision making. People are more likely to assume that the man is the one in charge of the situation. And with Adam playing his sob story of course he was going to win. But Hannah deserved some votes.
Part of the reason Sugar got 0 votes is because she was throwing the game. I don't know how people are shocked she got nothing. Her strategy was to play to make Bob win. If she was trying to play for herself, she'd push for a Final 3 of herself, Crystal, and Suzie. Carolyn getting 0 votes when the Jury spent the entire FTC and Reunion talking about how much they loved her and how she changed their lives when she actually did have a good FTC though, will always upset me and make no sense.
One robbed zero vote finalist who isn't on this list but should be is Dawn from Caramoan. She was actually a descent player and probably wins against any one of the finale players outside of Cochran (Sherri, and Eddie for example).
@@ralphtrynor9719wow people who get enraged if a woman dares play still exist. I can tell by the hateful language. "Exposed as manipulative?" I can assure you your favorite men also cried and had emotions. Or are you a Brenda stan and think Dawn getting pressured to embarrass herself was what the bitch deserved for not getting your way? Get help, buddy.
I feel like Jerry genuinely was going to vote for Russell until she got to Ponderosa, and there I can only assume the Russell hate fest showed her that there’s no way she could vote for him.
Michelle , should I got second place in winners at war. Natalie couldn't even pull off what Chris. Chris had the balls to put himself against the top dog Devons and beat him? But Natalie couldn't face Tony cause she couldn't beat and she knew it. So she took the easy way out.
Natalie should have took out Michelle, and let the votes SPLIT between TONY and SARAH... they did good but so did she... there was a smaller chance she got the votes and all of Tonys were split... or she would have gotten 3rd but i dont think that.
@@LilPuppet-f1z Natalie got 4 votes at the Final Tribal, and nobody who voted Tony would've voted Natalie if Sarah was in the final instead of Michelle. So she would've gotten 2nd or 3rd anyway.
I think Jake also had the same problem of Michele, people didn't want to vote for 3rd place, they wanted their vote to be fore one of the 2 that might win.
Sugar was NOT robbed. She had no social game, and her final tribal performance was one of the worst ever. I'm sure she is a lovely person and all that in real life, but Sugar lost because of Sugar.
I agree. I loved Sugar but at no point was she playing to win. She was playing to be a fan fav. She got what she deserved. Susie was definitely robbed though
For me, Dawn on Caramoan also falls into the category of "Shouldn't have won, but should have gotten votes." She was a partner to Cochran, and so should get at least some credit for the moves he gets credit for. Plus, she was the one who was able to get information from other alliances that ENABLED the pair of them to get to the end. Granted, her unwillingness to cut Cochran at some point, plus her emotional breakdowns (which I could see being grating over time if you were out there living with her) probably precludes her win, but IMO, this is a "Loses to Cochran" game, not a "Gets skunked by Cochran" game.
Sometimes I wonder what the point of a final 3 is if one of the finalists gets shafted by the jury. Then I remember what happened at Ghost Island’s final tribal. Then I ask, why isn’t the jury just 9 members anyway?
I mean a lot of competitive players never got a chance to make their case to a final tribal because they got ousted for comp reasons at final 3. We probably don’t get a Hatch win, for one, Rob C. makes it to final tribal, and Cirie gets to final tribal in Micronesia instead of the surprise final comp failure. Not to say any of these outcomes are inherently better or worse, just to point out Final 2s result in very different outcomes than Final 3s, even if one of the finalists receives no votes.
The finalist who gets shafted is the goat who would be taken to the final two anyway. It's more interesting to watch two people battle it out while a third is just there than it is to watch one obvious winner curbstomp someone with no chance of winning.
@@sentientsardine9729 Sometimes 2 goats who couldn't win vs a rock get to FTC though. Fiji- Cassandra and Dreamz Gabon- Susie and Sugar. Although this was basically an all goat Final 3. Redemption island- Phillip and Natalie T (this is still the biggest example EVER) Blood vs Water- Monica and Gervase Millenials vs Generation X- Ken and Hannah (I know a lot think Hannah is a strong player but she was still so hated anyone beats Ken and Hannah in a Final 3, even Will or Taylor) Edge of Extinction- Gavin and Julie Island of Idols- Dean and Noura, although granted 1 of them probably wins if Karishma is the 3rd finalist, but that would be a massive all goat Final 3. Season 41- Xander and DeShawn Season 43- Cassidy and Owen. I know some people think Cassidy is a strong player but these two lose to everyone who made the merge, even Ryan who was both hated and a horrible player wins a Final 3 vs those two. There are many others but these are some super obvious ones.
Hannah is still one of the biggest head scratchers to me on how she didnt get any votes. She went toe to toe with Adam at FTC and made a slew of valid points. I couldnt believe she got zero votes and still cant on rewatches.
he literally viewed her as a goat….he knew he would beat her because of her emotionally illogical gameplay. she knew this, why else would she say she’s more of a Noura than a Wentworth or Parvati.
Glad Hannah got a mention, I’ll die on the hill that Hannah should have won over Adam imo! But Adam won how you should, getting the Jury to vote for him can’t deny that!
No idea why people think Hannah should have won over Adam. Best case for her they played an equal strategic game, voting the same almost every round, and Adam had a much better social game in that literally everyone apart from maybe Ken liked him better. And that is generous since she made one much poorer strategic choice (keeping David at Final 5) vs Adam who made a much better one in the same round (trying to vote out David at Final 5) which would be enough to mark his strategic game better too with all else roughly equal.
Hannah absolutely deserved votes at the end of Millenials vs Gen X. The jury gave Adam credit for literally everything. He's my least favorite winner, by far.
I couldn't stand Jake. He didn't "play so hard that he broke a challenge," he was a sore loser who broke the challenge due to not following the rules. Deserved no votes.
I never thought of "not voting for who you want to win only to stop another person from accidentally winning" just like politics. that makes me want the to go back to final two even more....... or the can rank the final 3 and the player with the highest average wins. That way people will be more comfortable voting the way they want and not as strategic.
Kaleb lost my respect when he yelled “JAKE!” on the way to the vote. Pulling the same jerk move when voting for Jay after his save at TC. I hope he doesnt come back as a hero in a season.
Yeah that was messed up, but I’ll defend him when he did it to Jay, she was targeting him relentlessly and he just wanted one last jab at her in case his shot in the dark didn’t work. But I do respect your opinion.
Hannah absolutely deserved her zero votes, not only for her “big moves” that were unnecessary and very poorly thought out, but also for her constant interruptions at the final tribal. Michele also deserved her zero votes, because she was completely out of the loop in too many votes, and she had little to no control. That’s very poor social game and poor strategic game. Plus her constant whines about how her first win was received were extremely childish and cringy.
Not entirely, he was admitting his past mistakes and was also apologizing for the way he acted, plus if someone screwed up your chance at a million dollars wouldn’t you be pissed off.
One thing I absolutely hated about Winners at War were the ‘jury’ of every past voted out winner on the edge of extinction, decided unanimously that they weren’t giving Michele a single vote FOR THE SOLE REASON THAT THEY THOUGHT SHE DESERVED SECOND PLACE HER FIRST SEASON AND DIDNT WANT TO RISK HER POSSIBLY ‘STEALING’ FIRST AGAIN. They deliberately colluded to sabotage any chance of even coming in second to Michele for no reason other then making sure Tony would win, because Natalie had been there with all those people for an entire month but had practically no gameplay to claim. The same winners who talked her out of her doubts (Rob) were one of these people who actively supported her sabotage. If she was a man, people would’ve been giving her such accolades since she single handedly beat Aubrey and Tai in a final tribal THEN managed to perfectly call out the pecking order at the merge until the final three. Won two immunities when the entire tribe at that point had segregated her basically trying to ensure she was next to be voted out, successfully played an advantage in a possible tie vote situation against Jeremy, got the most fire tokens out of any other player, bought the most advantages with tokens (while in game and not on the edge), AND she navigated through a 5-6 person blockade at the final seven where when Natalie came back they had the majority since the idol was in Nat’s hands and immunity was in Michele’s. This is such a great example why the edge was broken, it’s a collision event where all the bitter people who got their torches snuffed to brew in negativity against specific people who did nothing to them. Most of these winners tried to vote Michele out when they were booted so I feel like no matter the situation they wouldn’t want to let Michele win.
No idea where you’re getting this idea. The jury came out and said they really did wish they could have voted Michele for her to get 2nd as she deserved it. The problem was they didn’t know how many people were voting for Natalie in case Tony suddenly somehow had his win stolen from, which would of been a much bigger issue than what we have here.
@@extremelyfordham4811 They could have, but that's only in retrospect. At the time no one knew how many of the Jurors were voting for Natalie and that risk was too high to take. This one is more personal, and not offense to Michele, she played a great game, but the final vote regardless of who was 2nd is the type of vote that shows how much Tony lapped the rest of the cast this season. 12-4-0 is more fitting for his win than a 7-5-4 win.
Tony has stated in at least one interview that he was keeping her out of the loop because he was afraid of her and only talked highly of her game. When the person who beats you is saying you were a threat, I think we should probably go with the people who were there rather than the edit.
@@sentientsardine9729 Just because she was a threat doesn't mean she deserved votes. Yes thats eveidence for her being a decent player, but in terms of the game she played on this season, you said it yourself. She was kept out of the loop. She was a threat to tony's game, not to win the game.
@@nathangaspacio6128 So that's where the whole "the jury's perception matters" thing comes from. Because to the jury - they are seeing one player (Tony) be the obvious winner, and that obvious winner is saying that another player (Michelle) has him worried. In many ways this makes her win equity increase as the narrative of new jurors becomes "Tony is totally running the show, but Michelle is making him freak". And creates an idea that "so what about her game are we missing?" Ultimately that argument only has huge strength if Tony is not there, because then it comes across as "the threat to Tony's game beat him", but I see how a world exists where she would get a vote based on the spread of information.
I think sash should have gotten at least one. He was extremely smart and even got someone to give him a idol. He played the premerge really great and slowed down in post which cost him. Plus the fact his personality didnt work with the jury. He played the most strategic game out of those 3 but it was a jury that cared more about feeling and emotion. I understand why he didnt win but i think he should have gotten 1 vote. Sorry about the paragraph of text i dont imagine you read it all but hope yall have a great day
Spencer is THE most robbed player, since it wasn't even a close call game-wise. Jeremy was a terrible player he only won cause he "needed the money more". apparently returning players have even less respect for the game than normal seasons....
Jake blew it at final tribal. At least remind the jury that he fought from the bottom all game with minimum help against Dee and Austin who were helping each other up all game as a couple wich is easier
I think there is only a handful of players that can argue they were robbed and its mostly a result of stupid production decisions (Cirie, Gavin, Lex), but if you make it to the FTC and don't get a single vote, there is no way you can argue that you deserved to win.
Putting Gavin in with Lex and Cirie as players who got robbed by production is a joke. Gavin loses to Rick, Lauren, and Victoria even if there’s no f6 challenge. He was a coattail rider
If the Winners at War cast at least try to give Michele 2nd, Tony would be the first winner to win a plurality vote, 7-5-4. Ben, Adam, Danni, Nick & Wendell said that they wanted to vote for her. They should at least knew Jeremy was a lock for Natalie.
Ngl Jake should of gotten 2nd he was better then The Guy who got 2nd (was it tyler?? I forgot his name it's been like a year since that season) but when he did that challenge and Broke the stick holding everything up EVEN JEFF was pissed off I don't think breaking a challenge then giving up would help his case at all tbh (was this like final 5 or 4 challenge i can't remember) if he didn't break that challenge yes He probably would of gotten 2nd place.
Edge of extinction screwed Michele. It allowed natalie to somehow get millions of advantages and build relationships while Tony blitzed the endgame. Michele had no shot. Natalie played the hand she was dealt but the EoE gave her such an unfair advantage lmao.
Not surprised at Michelle’s zero vote because she even admitted that she was completely out of the loop throughout the last half of the game. She said no one would play with her and she didn’t know what was going on. Even Nick, who was supposed to be in her alliance that fell apart started playing more with Tony than her in the end. So if no one had enough respect for her to include her, why would they vote for her?
I want to mention Dawn as she pretty much controlled the game with Cochran, but got most of the heat for the moves. It just feels wrong that she tied with Sherri
Dawn would probably smoke Sherri in a Final 2, but the real question is there anyone you could have reasonably expected to vote her over Cochran? And the answer is unfortunately no. The obvious one would have been Brenda if she didn't blindside her in a brutal way, but since that happened that leaves nobody and unfortunately means the tie with Sherri makes sense, as it isn't a Final 2 of her and Sherri, but a Final 3 with Cochran. Honestly Sherri was more likely to get a vote in that Final 3 from Michael Snow, than Dawn was from any particular juror.
Sugar could have won if she tried to get votes and not having a screw it because I’m not going win mindset Sugar wasn’t in the perfect headspace to play the game so she was very emotional
I felt like Michele could’ve won that fire making elim to beat Tony like Tony was afraid of her when she made that fire like Michele could’ve won this season so bad literally
Haven't watched 45, so can't comment on Jake, but as Dan Foley said, you've got to listen like a woman- oh, wrong quote, to win, it depends on who you take with you to the FTC, and who you put on the jury, but unlike Mike, Russell didn't care about either seasons jury, he burned bridges, and treated everyone sent to the jury, like crap, but he should have won? Not a chance
Why did Michelle not get any votes? Because she didn't deserve any. Every single episode it seemed opened with a confessional from her being mad about being left out of the vote. Why does she of all people get the pity party about not getting any votes when consistently on the wrong side of the vote and largely got to the end because of the Denise and Ben stimulus package of offering themselves up as vote out tributes + Natalie coming back in WITH an idol? Plus have we got any source other than Michelle herself about how people were going to vote for her but switched to Tony?
Michele made it to the end despite being on the bottom from the very first vote, she made good social connections which kept her from being targeted on the swap tribe, she won clutch individual immunities when she needed to, orchestrated and took part in some of the bigger blindsides of the season (such as Ethan, Yul and Sophie) and still had their respect when they were on the edge. She is the only returning player to never be voted out, and that’s a testament to her incredible social game, as well as her great physical and strategic game, which makes her a top 20 winner for me
She’s really not great strategically lol…Sophie was Tony’s move, and Yul overplayed himself out of the game. My issue is that everyone feels bad for her when others have had their games knocked for being consistently on the bottom and on the wrong side of votes. Yeah being on the bottom makes your threat level minimal but no one’s going to respect you at FTC-again something that others have been knocked for.
@@listo393 but her being on the bottom means that she is a constant target, compared to someone like Ben, whose name was never really bought up as he was in the majority, despite being a “big threat” In fact at the beginning of the merge, Tony immediately names her, Adam and Wendell as targets. Those two go consecutively and yet she makes the final 3
@@listo393 yes Wendell, Nick, Danni, and Adam all stated in their post game interviews they would’ve liked to vote for Michele. i mean come on Winners At War was 4 years ago, the articles and interviews are still available. you just gotta do your own research to find them.
Figures there’d be someone with a condescending response. Wendell’s exit interview was spent mostly on Michelle and somehow nowhere does he say he was going to vote for her. Even if he (or the rest of them) did…the record shows them voting for Tony
@@OnceUponAnIsland but I think you actually have it backwards. Her game wasn’t good at all, Yam Yam was better by a mile. and the approach she was taking at FTC in my opinion seemed effective enough to show her growth and her human side and show yes she’s emotional but it didn’t mean she was non strategic.
@@petreandres nah Heidi deserved it. She had roles in getting out Brandon, Kane, Claire and Carson. That’s more than Carolyn who was just kind of confused the whole game and crying
Sugar basically gave Bob $1M simply because she is genuine to nice people. Spencer was gonna get a vote, but when Jeremy said his truth it became clear of who everyone should vote. JT’s game 10/10 times tops Stephen. And to me, Michelle is a joke. First he steals Aubry’s deserved win. And now she makes it to the end again and doesn’t even gets Nick not even WENDELL’s. (Mind you they dated) & look what happened. As for you, Great Video. Keep it up. ❤
didn’t Adam, Wendell, Nick, and Danni all state that they wanted to vote for Michele? they wanted her to finish second behind Tony due to their dislike of Natalie (among other reasons) but because Natalie did have some people on her side, they didn’t want to risk her winning instead of Tony.
Parvati was more robbed then Russel imo she had an amazing tribal and dominated the game, had a better social and competitive game and her crazy plays definitely was better then Sandra’s and russel
Nah Russell did everything for her, he’s the one that flipped Coach and Jerri to their side, blindsided her closest ally in Danielle making her look powerless She started the season in a bad spot but failing to keep Danielle in the game was a game ended for her, Jerri would’ve wiped the floor with Parv at final tribal
@@XanderMatthews-nv9zf not true at all but ok, Russel knew nothing about her idols, she controlled him and made it so that no villains were aloud to flip, and used her flirtatious and cunning peronality to make sure Russel will do whatever she wants her to.
@@onepieceontop133 I have absolutely no idea how you could finish watching the season and come away with that point of view, Parvati was lucky as hell that Russell cared enough to save her at her 2nd tribal And the whole “allowed to flip” business is a point I don’t where you’re coming from on, seasons without swaps especially in the older era of the show had an extremely low amount of flips
@Octobris I'm trying to get laid does or well I don't want to make any good move because I don't want to make any good game play I just want to follow the leader.
Hannah should've won for sure. And she wasn't even bad at the final tribal, she explained very well how she made her game and controlled things but the jury seems very closed mind with her and didn't liked that she kept a huge threat like David until final 4.
“she wasn’t even bad at the final tribal” Give me a break. Constantly interrupting is VERY bad at the final tribal. Plus, similar to Ciera Eastin, Hannah failed to see the difference between a big move and a good move.
While I actually agree she should have won form a textbook application of game theory her FTC was not that good. She came off mostly as a heckler which decent offensive tactic but it doesn't really engender much positive emotion for your own case. Now I still think she should have gotten Zeke, Michelle and Will's votes and had a shot at Jay, Chris, Sunday and Taylor.........(mostly cause I have no idea what Taylor's criteria even would be, he literally voted for the guy he hated the most)
@@Meodread LOL at thinking she could ever get Jay, Chris, or Sunday. That is absurd. Jay and Adam were super close, so no way Hannah is getting his vote over Adam. And then Chris HATED both Hannah and Ken, and so did Sunday, so by default Adam had their votes completely locked in that Final 3 too.
@@petreandres I mean all 3 have interviews suggesting they pondered voting for her. Don't get me wrong. I was unsurprised Hannah lost. Her social game was quite poor with a number of people. Her game unrespected. And poorly articulated when given the chance. Her social anxiety making her Cochran 1.0 at best and Cochran 1.0 was quite bad. But I watch a lot of jury interviews cause I wanna know their criteria, I want to know their considerations. And most of them with the exceptions of Jessica, Brett and David were considering it. Well maybe not Taylor, I remember just being incredibly confused listening to his interviews. Still no idea what his criteria was.
Dreamz was robbed in fiji, he played a good game, I just feel like if he explained his moves better, he could have gotten a vote or 2 from people like boo or edgardo
Xander made a flashy play with the "you can have this fake", but from there proceeded to do nothing with his idol to the point that everyone just ignored him. He can speak well to a camera but like... he didn't really do much beyond "waiting for the time to make a move".
Can we stop dragging Sugar especially after she attempted to you know what! That jury was mostly villains like Chlorine and Randy. Also as far as i know there were people who wanted to vote Michelle but were told by other that if they vote for her Tony might lose to Natalie. Natalie's strategy was for Sarah to beat Tony and then hope to beat her. But it didn't work. If she put Michelle and she beat him, Michelle was winning it. Nats only option was for Sarah to beat Tony. If she was to go against him and she lost she was losing her runner up money too so she played it safe. Did 2nd place WaW got 200k or more that time?
Not surprised at Michelle’s zero vote because she even admitted that she was completely out of the loop throughout the last half of the game. She said no one would play with her and she didn’t know what was going on. Even Nick, who was supposed to be in her alliance that fell apart started playing more with Tony than her in the end. So if no one had enough respect for her to include her, why would they vote for her?
y’all gotta read exit interviews and post game interviews….MICHELE didn’t receive votes because she was out of the loop. she didn’t receive votes because there was a select few pushing for Natalie to win. and if they split some of Tony’s votes with Michele, Natalie could’ve won on a plurality.
@@smallss7197 Ok but that's a reason to vote for Tony as well. The Nat push was for some very specific reasons that didn't apply to Michelle. Now I will note she should have got votes because multiple jurors said they voted for Tony as a protest vote against the Pro Natalie folks. But the comparison of Nat vs Michelle wasn't a factor. Either the juror was Locked in on Nat or considering between Tony and Michelle.
Sugar talked herself out of a win at final tribal because she thought she couldn’t win. Even Randy said in his pre-final tribal confessional that he would consider giving her a vote but she told him not to at final tribal. She had a screw you attitude at final tribal which does not help you win votes.
I'm pretty sure any theoretical vote Randy gives Sugar is just to try and flip the bird to Bob and Susie, and not for her to actually win.
There is no way Sugar wins, maybe she talked herself out of receiving 1 vote, but under no circumstances could she win.
Stop it. The girl just lost her father and there was literally nothing "screw you" about her attitude outside of Corrine. This is a freezing cold take if you listened to any of the juror's after game interviews.
There's a difference between a "screw you" attitude and a "I'm not gonna bother" attitude. As odd as it came to be, Sugar had more influence on the game than anyone on that jury, and they resented it. Sugar decided not to bother trying to sway them to see her worth. She knew their bitterness wouldn't grant her their vote.
It's more of a "I cannot care anymore" thing because it seems everyone wanted to screw her over I mean they didn't even send her to exile for a good reason they just hated her. It's hard to keep caring when most people don't seem to like you
I think Kass kind of explains why she didn't vote for Spencer in her response, at least it's implied. When she told him that he played like Chaos Kass, she was trying to get him to admit that he was wrong to criticize her gameplay the way he did; instead, he just says that he's changed which doesn't give Kass the acknowledgement that her gameplay deserved.
JT burying Stephen at FTC is a brilliant social play. It gets slept upon bc he was likely winning 7-0 anyway, but he completely stunned his competition by lashing out in the way he did. I'm surprised more people don't try this, especially considering how many alliances end up at ftc together.
Dee did this to an extent, she basically let Austin HAVE IT and I was even shook she went hard like that... I LOVE when that happens. Sophie also called out Coach on the whole HII and how it was found.
He was originally not going to get Tyson's vote, but he gave it to him after how bad Stephen performed.
This is wrong, multiple players confirmed it was 4-3 going into FTC in JT’s favour. Stephen needed to flip 1 person to win :)
@randomyoutuber0524 Where's your sources? Everything I've ever heard has stated Tyson was the only one who was going to vote for him. Some people seemed open to voting for him, but were leaning JT going in. Here is what the jury looked like going in
Brendan- was team JT from day 1 of the merge. Wanted JT to win at the cost of his own game if needed.
Tyson- Respected Stephen's game more than JT's.
Sierra- Didn't like or respect Stephen for lying to people. Liked JT.
Debby- Liked both boys. Seemed to respect JT more, especially when Stephen didn't own he'd have voted JT out.
Coach- Liked JT much more as he didn't vote him out.
Taj- was hurt by Stephen's betrayal.
Erin- wasn't really seen being close to either. She knew her chances were better with Stephen. She probably respected JT more.
This is crazy I just finished rewatching Winners at War and Michelle definitely deserved 2nd place at least.
That’s what I am saying. She played a great game. I think if Natalie had put her against Tony in fire Michelle wins and might win the whole game!
@@aperson22222well considering 2nd place gets paid more than 3rd place it definitely matters lol
@@Rames28 Don't think so. Sarah would have won. But for suuuuuuure, Michelle deserved the 2nd place. Fuck, she was on her own and the was telling everyone that Tony was a huge threat. Thank you Denise, Ben and co.
Yes Tony is still the clear winter
Tony deserved to win but Michelle deserved runner up. Though i give credit for Natalie for almost pulling a Chris Underwood.
I genuinely think sugar could’ve gotten a 7-1 vote if she answerd correctly bc some of kota tribe was giving her a chance and only talked to her (Charlie, Marcus, Randy etc.) and better answers overall like to Kenny, crystal, and Marty I guess but no way she would get Corrine
I really don't think so. I think Sugar's only potential votes based on everything we have from the actual jurors were Randy (because he was SO ANGRY with all 3), Marcus seemed on the fence, Kenny I was a little surprised didn't vote for her but those are the best case 3.
And that's 3 including a Randy who hated her, that's not great.
Matty was going for Susie regardless, they had a bond that was apparently way deeper than shown in the show and he didn't really have any respect for Sugar's game.
Crystal was still made at her and had a better relationship with Susie.
Corrine you more or less covered.
Charlie has stated he was voting for Bob regardless.
So her best case was to convince the 3 jurors who have admitted they COULD vote for her to vote for her and split the 4 who under no circumstances considered voting for her. Now fortunately those 4 are split and aren't moving. But oh boy the final tribal speech to win over Randy is.........a thing.
Matty was NEVER voting her after she betrayed him, and Charlie, Marcus, Corrine were always voting Bob in that Final 3. Sugar's best case is somehow getting Ken, Crystal, Randy, but I really don't see Crystal voting her as she was also bitter at Sugar for her blindside, or Randy who hated Sugar even though he hated all 3. And even if she got all Susie gives it to Bob in the tiebreaker of the 3-3-1 vote, over Sugar, for sure.
#JUSTICE4MICHELLE
Ew no
@@HotRoute7I agree she is the most controversial winner and now she gets what she deserves, which is nothing.
@@itacryanShe should had not win 😭
@@itacryan
She got paid over $80,000. She definitely didn't get nothing.
She was up against Tony and the other chick who got voted out day 1 and grinded her way to get back in the game and somehow managed to get to the finals so it makes sense she didn’t get a vote
I think most zero-vote finalists end up that way because of their own mistakes. A couple of exceptions are JT in Tocantins and Michele in Winners at War. They just had the misfortune of being against unbeatable opponents. I agree that Michele should have finished second, but it was more important to make sure the right person (Tony) won, so I applaud the jurors.
You mean Stephen and not JT?
Yeah, to me all that really matters is who wins it. Voting to ensure someone gets second or remains third isn't how I want people voting. They're there to vote for who they think should win.
Im genuine in asking this bc I haven't rewatched WaW in a while, but what did michelle do to deserve a vote? As far as I remember her entire post merge game was atrocious, she never got a footing, and would've been voted out at final five if she didn't get to play an immunity challenge she'd already done before. Only redeeming part of her game that I can remember was surviving tribe swap.
I agree that natalie didn't really deserve votes, but I don't think michelle was much better.
@@nathangaspacio6128I know some people were bothered that Natalie made it to the end through the Edge, and felt she didn't deserve any votes due to that (and by extension shouldn't have been ahead of Michele).
Aside from that, I don't really remember why people think she deserved votes. Between her and Tony, Tony played the better game hands down and if you're voting for who should win then he should still get the votes.
In comparison to Natalie, Michele played a hell of a better game
Thank you for mentioning Hannah. Games like hers shows how subconcious bias is prevalent in decision making. People are more likely to assume that the man is the one in charge of the situation. And with Adam playing his sob story of course he was going to win. But Hannah deserved some votes.
Part of the reason Sugar got 0 votes is because she was throwing the game. I don't know how people are shocked she got nothing. Her strategy was to play to make Bob win. If she was trying to play for herself, she'd push for a Final 3 of herself, Crystal, and Suzie. Carolyn getting 0 votes when the Jury spent the entire FTC and Reunion talking about how much they loved her and how she changed their lives when she actually did have a good FTC though, will always upset me and make no sense.
Fishbach is number one in my book. he is the superior player. JT’s last two appearances do make you wonder, how he won.
JT just trusted the wrong people at the end.
Fishbach is the only one who did not have a single vote in the FTC in the final two. It must be very frustrating
One robbed zero vote finalist who isn't on this list but should be is Dawn from Caramoan. She was actually a descent player and probably wins against any one of the finale players outside of Cochran (Sherri, and Eddie for example).
You should re-watch it again because no, she wasn't.
Even in the end, she was exposed as a liar and manipulative
@@ralphtrynor9719wow people who get enraged if a woman dares play still exist. I can tell by the hateful language. "Exposed as manipulative?" I can assure you your favorite men also cried and had emotions. Or are you a Brenda stan and think Dawn getting pressured to embarrass herself was what the bitch deserved for not getting your way? Get help, buddy.
Also if your first response is something like "did I T R I G G E R you? 😂" you're also a PREDICTABLE little shit.
@@ralphtrynor9719I mean so was Cochran but Dawn got all the heat for it lol
@@ralphtrynor9719yeah that's the point of survivor lol
I feel like Jerry genuinely was going to vote for Russell until she got to Ponderosa, and there I can only assume the Russell hate fest showed her that there’s no way she could vote for him.
Michelle , should I got second place in winners at war. Natalie couldn't even pull off what Chris. Chris had the balls to put himself against the top dog Devons and beat him? But Natalie couldn't face Tony cause she couldn't beat and she knew it. So she took the easy way out.
Natalie should have took out Michelle, and let the votes SPLIT between TONY and SARAH... they did good but so did she... there was a smaller chance she got the votes and all of Tonys were split... or she would have gotten 3rd but i dont think that.
@@LilPuppet-f1z Natalie got 4 votes at the Final Tribal, and nobody who voted Tony would've voted Natalie if Sarah was in the final instead of Michelle. So she would've gotten 2nd or 3rd anyway.
The show portrayed Julie as a huge threat to win. Jake messed up that move by being cagey and never establishing trust with Katurah
Exactly
I think Jake also had the same problem of Michele, people didn't want to vote for 3rd place, they wanted their vote to be fore one of the 2 that might win.
Sugar was NOT robbed. She had no social game, and her final tribal performance was one of the worst ever. I'm sure she is a lovely person and all that in real life, but Sugar lost because of Sugar.
Yeah, at that point, she was like what do I’ve got to lose that I’m just gonna help Bob win
I agree. I loved Sugar but at no point was she playing to win. She was playing to be a fan fav. She got what she deserved. Susie was definitely robbed though
Yea I agree! She talked herself out of a million bucks😭
For me, Dawn on Caramoan also falls into the category of "Shouldn't have won, but should have gotten votes." She was a partner to Cochran, and so should get at least some credit for the moves he gets credit for. Plus, she was the one who was able to get information from other alliances that ENABLED the pair of them to get to the end. Granted, her unwillingness to cut Cochran at some point, plus her emotional breakdowns (which I could see being grating over time if you were out there living with her) probably precludes her win, but IMO, this is a "Loses to Cochran" game, not a "Gets skunked by Cochran" game.
Sometimes I wonder what the point of a final 3 is if one of the finalists gets shafted by the jury. Then I remember what happened at Ghost Island’s final tribal. Then I ask, why isn’t the jury just 9 members anyway?
I fully agree but I never expect the F2 to be brought back since it would just be another round favorite players would need to survive the vote.
I mean a lot of competitive players never got a chance to make their case to a final tribal because they got ousted for comp reasons at final 3. We probably don’t get a Hatch win, for one, Rob C. makes it to final tribal, and Cirie gets to final tribal in Micronesia instead of the surprise final comp failure.
Not to say any of these outcomes are inherently better or worse, just to point out Final 2s result in very different outcomes than Final 3s, even if one of the finalists receives no votes.
The finalist who gets shafted is the goat who would be taken to the final two anyway.
It's more interesting to watch two people battle it out while a third is just there than it is to watch one obvious winner curbstomp someone with no chance of winning.
@@sentientsardine9729 Sometimes 2 goats who couldn't win vs a rock get to FTC though.
Fiji- Cassandra and Dreamz
Gabon- Susie and Sugar. Although this was basically an all goat Final 3.
Redemption island- Phillip and Natalie T (this is still the biggest example EVER)
Blood vs Water- Monica and Gervase
Millenials vs Generation X- Ken and Hannah (I know a lot think Hannah is a strong player but she was still so hated anyone beats Ken and Hannah in a Final 3, even Will or Taylor)
Edge of Extinction- Gavin and Julie
Island of Idols- Dean and Noura, although granted 1 of them probably wins if Karishma is the 3rd finalist, but that would be a massive all goat Final 3.
Season 41- Xander and DeShawn
Season 43- Cassidy and Owen. I know some people think Cassidy is a strong player but these two lose to everyone who made the merge, even Ryan who was both hated and a horrible player wins a Final 3 vs those two.
There are many others but these are some super obvious ones.
if there are no hannah stans left on this earth I'm dead
👋🏼
Hannah is still one of the biggest head scratchers to me on how she didnt get any votes. She went toe to toe with Adam at FTC and made a slew of valid points. I couldnt believe she got zero votes and still cant on rewatches.
I will never forgive Carson for not bvoting for carolyn. Once again someone who was scared of the 2nd place winning
he literally viewed her as a goat….he knew he would beat her because of her emotionally illogical gameplay. she knew this, why else would she say she’s more of a Noura than a Wentworth or Parvati.
Glad Hannah got a mention, I’ll die on the hill that Hannah should have won over Adam imo! But Adam won how you should, getting the Jury to vote for him can’t deny that!
No idea why people think Hannah should have won over Adam. Best case for her they played an equal strategic game, voting the same almost every round, and Adam had a much better social game in that literally everyone apart from maybe Ken liked him better. And that is generous since she made one much poorer strategic choice (keeping David at Final 5) vs Adam who made a much better one in the same round (trying to vote out David at Final 5) which would be enough to mark his strategic game better too with all else roughly equal.
Hannah absolutely deserved votes at the end of Millenials vs Gen X. The jury gave Adam credit for literally everything. He's my least favorite winner, by far.
I couldn't stand Jake. He didn't "play so hard that he broke a challenge," he was a sore loser who broke the challenge due to not following the rules. Deserved no votes.
I never thought of "not voting for who you want to win only to stop another person from accidentally winning" just like politics. that makes me want the to go back to final two even more....... or the can rank the final 3 and the player with the highest average wins. That way people will be more comfortable voting the way they want and not as strategic.
Jake was clueless the whole game. He did not deserve a single vote. That surprised no one.
Kaleb lost my respect when he yelled “JAKE!” on the way to the vote. Pulling the same jerk move when voting for Jay after his save at TC. I hope he doesnt come back as a hero in a season.
Yeah that was messed up, but I’ll defend him when he did it to Jay, she was targeting him relentlessly and he just wanted one last jab at her in case his shot in the dark didn’t work. But I do respect your opinion.
Hannah absolutely deserved her zero votes, not only for her “big moves” that were unnecessary and very poorly thought out, but also for her constant interruptions at the final tribal.
Michele also deserved her zero votes, because she was completely out of the loop in too many votes, and she had little to no control. That’s very poor social game and poor strategic game. Plus her constant whines about how her first win was received were extremely childish and cringy.
Spencer's answer to Kass was awful. He totally dodged it by saying "well I've changed" but that doesn't answer the question at all!
Not entirely, he was admitting his past mistakes and was also apologizing for the way he acted, plus if someone screwed up your chance at a million dollars wouldn’t you be pissed off.
On like any other season Steven could’ve won
Fishbach is a great strategist but terrible in public speaking. Whenever he speaks to a group, it's like nails in a blackboard. 😂
feel like thats how id be on survivor. i have a strategic mind but could never pull things off
xander really dont deserve having 0 too
Spencer not getting one was a little crazy.
I’m glad we saw JT play again so we could see when someone else isn’t doing LITERALLY ALL of his thinking for him, he’s a dumpster fire.
Chrissy was robbed on survivor 35, Ben and his idols did not deserve to win
One thing I absolutely hated about Winners at War were the ‘jury’ of every past voted out winner on the edge of extinction, decided unanimously that they weren’t giving Michele a single vote FOR THE SOLE REASON THAT THEY THOUGHT SHE DESERVED SECOND PLACE HER FIRST SEASON AND DIDNT WANT TO RISK HER POSSIBLY ‘STEALING’ FIRST AGAIN.
They deliberately colluded to sabotage any chance of even coming in second to Michele for no reason other then making sure Tony would win, because Natalie had been there with all those people for an entire month but had practically no gameplay to claim. The same winners who talked her out of her doubts (Rob) were one of these people who actively supported her sabotage. If she was a man, people would’ve been giving her such accolades since she single handedly beat Aubrey and Tai in a final tribal THEN managed to perfectly call out the pecking order at the merge until the final three. Won two immunities when the entire tribe at that point had segregated her basically trying to ensure she was next to be voted out, successfully played an advantage in a possible tie vote situation against Jeremy, got the most fire tokens out of any other player, bought the most advantages with tokens (while in game and not on the edge), AND she navigated through a 5-6 person blockade at the final seven where when Natalie came back they had the majority since the idol was in Nat’s hands and immunity was in Michele’s.
This is such a great example why the edge was broken, it’s a collision event where all the bitter people who got their torches snuffed to brew in negativity against specific people who did nothing to them. Most of these winners tried to vote Michele out when they were booted so I feel like no matter the situation they wouldn’t want to let Michele win.
No idea where you’re getting this idea. The jury came out and said they really did wish they could have voted Michele for her to get 2nd as she deserved it. The problem was they didn’t know how many people were voting for Natalie in case Tony suddenly somehow had his win stolen from, which would of been a much bigger issue than what we have here.
@@yellercat500cat712 people voted tony they could have gave her five
@@extremelyfordham4811 They could have, but that's only in retrospect. At the time no one knew how many of the Jurors were voting for Natalie and that risk was too high to take. This one is more personal, and not offense to Michele, she played a great game, but the final vote regardless of who was 2nd is the type of vote that shows how much Tony lapped the rest of the cast this season. 12-4-0 is more fitting for his win than a 7-5-4 win.
“How did Susie get more votes?” Because she is MOTHER
Michelle didnt deserve any votes. She did absolutley nothing at against one of the best games of all time
Tony has stated in at least one interview that he was keeping her out of the loop because he was afraid of her and only talked highly of her game.
When the person who beats you is saying you were a threat, I think we should probably go with the people who were there rather than the edit.
I agree and the people who wanted her to win, they’re probably blinded by Tony’s successful game play.
@@sentientsardine9729 Just because she was a threat doesn't mean she deserved votes. Yes thats eveidence for her being a decent player, but in terms of the game she played on this season, you said it yourself. She was kept out of the loop. She was a threat to tony's game, not to win the game.
@@nathangaspacio6128
So that's where the whole "the jury's perception matters" thing comes from.
Because to the jury - they are seeing one player (Tony) be the obvious winner, and that obvious winner is saying that another player (Michelle) has him worried. In many ways this makes her win equity increase as the narrative of new jurors becomes "Tony is totally running the show, but Michelle is making him freak". And creates an idea that "so what about her game are we missing?"
Ultimately that argument only has huge strength if Tony is not there, because then it comes across as "the threat to Tony's game beat him", but I see how a world exists where she would get a vote based on the spread of information.
I think sash should have gotten at least one. He was extremely smart and even got someone to give him a idol. He played the premerge really great and slowed down in post which cost him. Plus the fact his personality didnt work with the jury. He played the most strategic game out of those 3 but it was a jury that cared more about feeling and emotion.
I understand why he didnt win but i think he should have gotten 1 vote.
Sorry about the paragraph of text i dont imagine you read it all but hope yall have a great day
Sugar was absolutely in the drivers seat all of Gabon
Spencer is THE most robbed player, since it wasn't even a close call game-wise. Jeremy was a terrible player he only won cause he "needed the money more". apparently returning players have even less respect for the game than normal seasons....
Jake blew it at final tribal. At least remind the jury that he fought from the bottom all game with minimum help against Dee and Austin who were helping each other up all game as a couple wich is easier
I think there is only a handful of players that can argue they were robbed and its mostly a result of stupid production decisions (Cirie, Gavin, Lex), but if you make it to the FTC and don't get a single vote, there is no way you can argue that you deserved to win.
Putting Gavin in with Lex and Cirie as players who got robbed by production is a joke. Gavin loses to Rick, Lauren, and Victoria even if there’s no f6 challenge. He was a coattail rider
I think replace Gavin with ozzy and terry
That Hannah clip was mad cringe
If the Winners at War cast at least try to give Michele 2nd, Tony would be the first winner to win a plurality vote, 7-5-4. Ben, Adam, Danni, Nick & Wendell said that they wanted to vote for her. They should at least knew Jeremy was a lock for Natalie.
Ngl Jake should of gotten 2nd he was better then The Guy who got 2nd (was it tyler?? I forgot his name it's been like a year since that season) but when he did that challenge and Broke the stick holding everything up EVEN JEFF was pissed off I don't think breaking a challenge then giving up would help his case at all tbh (was this like final 5 or 4 challenge i can't remember) if he didn't break that challenge yes He probably would of gotten 2nd place.
Chaos Kass video when??
Whenever the patrons pick it.
Edge of extinction screwed Michele. It allowed natalie to somehow get millions of advantages and build relationships while Tony blitzed the endgame. Michele had no shot. Natalie played the hand she was dealt but the EoE gave her such an unfair advantage lmao.
How Sugar was a hero is a big question....
Not surprised at Michelle’s zero vote because she even admitted that she was completely out of the loop throughout the last half of the game. She said no one would play with her and she didn’t know what was going on. Even Nick, who was supposed to be in her alliance that fell apart started playing more with Tony than her in the end. So if no one had enough respect for her to include her, why would they vote for her?
Tony has stated since that the reason he kept her out of the loop was because he was afraid of her game - not because he didn't respect it.
I want to mention Dawn as she pretty much controlled the game with Cochran, but got most of the heat for the moves. It just feels wrong that she tied with Sherri
Dawn would probably smoke Sherri in a Final 2, but the real question is there anyone you could have reasonably expected to vote her over Cochran? And the answer is unfortunately no. The obvious one would have been Brenda if she didn't blindside her in a brutal way, but since that happened that leaves nobody and unfortunately means the tie with Sherri makes sense, as it isn't a Final 2 of her and Sherri, but a Final 3 with Cochran. Honestly Sherri was more likely to get a vote in that Final 3 from Michael Snow, than Dawn was from any particular juror.
tbh i feel like tasha deserved at least 1 vote but i do understand why she didn't considering not even spencer could
Sugar could have won if she tried to get votes and not having a screw it because I’m not going win mindset
Sugar wasn’t in the perfect headspace to play the game so she was very emotional
michelle did NOT deserve 3rd and if tony lost fire, she FULLY deserved to win. i hate that sarah would have won the game when she did nothing.
What did Michele do but be out of the majority consistently lol
I felt like Michele could’ve won that fire making elim to beat Tony like Tony was afraid of her when she made that fire like Michele could’ve won this season so bad literally
Hannah is my favorite
I know it's the most recent season and this video was probably made before 46 wrapped, but honestly, justice for Ben
No one said Ben when I made the video.
Jake and Russell should have won they played the best game
Haven't watched 45, so can't comment on Jake, but as Dan Foley said, you've got to listen like a woman- oh, wrong quote, to win, it depends on who you take with you to the FTC, and who you put on the jury, but unlike Mike, Russell didn't care about either seasons jury, he burned bridges, and treated everyone sent to the jury, like crap, but he should have won? Not a chance
Why did Michelle not get any votes? Because she didn't deserve any. Every single episode it seemed opened with a confessional from her being mad about being left out of the vote. Why does she of all people get the pity party about not getting any votes when consistently on the wrong side of the vote and largely got to the end because of the Denise and Ben stimulus package of offering themselves up as vote out tributes + Natalie coming back in WITH an idol? Plus have we got any source other than Michelle herself about how people were going to vote for her but switched to Tony?
Michele made it to the end despite being on the bottom from the very first vote, she made good social connections which kept her from being targeted on the swap tribe, she won clutch individual immunities when she needed to, orchestrated and took part in some of the bigger blindsides of the season (such as Ethan, Yul and Sophie) and still had their respect when they were on the edge. She is the only returning player to never be voted out, and that’s a testament to her incredible social game, as well as her great physical and strategic game, which makes her a top 20 winner for me
She’s really not great strategically lol…Sophie was Tony’s move, and Yul overplayed himself out of the game. My issue is that everyone feels bad for her when others have had their games knocked for being consistently on the bottom and on the wrong side of votes. Yeah being on the bottom makes your threat level minimal but no one’s going to respect you at FTC-again something that others have been knocked for.
@@listo393 but her being on the bottom means that she is a constant target, compared to someone like Ben, whose name was never really bought up as he was in the majority, despite being a “big threat” In fact at the beginning of the merge, Tony immediately names her, Adam and Wendell as targets. Those two go consecutively and yet she makes the final 3
@@listo393 yes Wendell, Nick, Danni, and Adam all stated in their post game interviews they would’ve liked to vote for Michele. i mean come on Winners At War was 4 years ago, the articles and interviews are still available. you just gotta do your own research to find them.
Figures there’d be someone with a condescending response. Wendell’s exit interview was spent mostly on Michelle and somehow nowhere does he say he was going to vote for her. Even if he (or the rest of them) did…the record shows them voting for Tony
14:20 I don’t get your assessment on this, Carolyn gave a fantastic FTC but her game wasn’t that good
She fumbled FTC and did nothing to effectively explain her game.
@@OnceUponAnIsland but I think you actually have it backwards. Her game wasn’t good at all, Yam Yam was better by a mile. and the approach she was taking at FTC in my opinion seemed effective enough to show her growth and her human side and show yes she’s emotional but it didn’t mean she was non strategic.
@@devondonato4609 I believe the thinking is Heidi even got a vote, and no way was her game better than Carolyn's, so Carolyn deserved atleast one.
@@petreandres nah Heidi deserved it. She had roles in getting out Brandon, Kane, Claire and Carson. That’s more than Carolyn who was just kind of confused the whole game and crying
⭐️ made it early
Watch your mouth with how you talk about 3 Vote Finalist, One Cookie Short of $1 Million, Queen Jesusita Smith!
I think one of the reasons for Carolyn not getting any votes is partly attributed to the fact that everyone found her extremely annoying by the end
Sugar sugar, dun dun dun dun dun dun....
Spencer reminds me of a large "wet paint" stain on a pair of Air Jordans.
Sugar basically gave Bob $1M simply because she is genuine to nice people. Spencer was gonna get a vote, but when Jeremy said his truth it became clear of who everyone should vote. JT’s game 10/10 times tops Stephen. And to me, Michelle is a joke. First he steals Aubry’s deserved win. And now she makes it to the end again and doesn’t even gets Nick not even WENDELL’s. (Mind you they dated) & look what happened.
As for you, Great Video. Keep it up. ❤
Sugar was basically a kingmaker - because Matty would've dominated the jury even more than Bob
didn’t Adam, Wendell, Nick, and Danni all state that they wanted to vote for Michele? they wanted her to finish second behind Tony due to their dislike of Natalie (among other reasons) but because Natalie did have some people on her side, they didn’t want to risk her winning instead of Tony.
@@markjackson6431 if they did why did they do it in the moment it’s because the other two people were so much better than her in 40
Parvati was more robbed then Russel imo she had an amazing tribal and dominated the game, had a better social and competitive game and her crazy plays definitely was better then Sandra’s and russel
But she got 3 votes
Nah Russell did everything for her, he’s the one that flipped Coach and Jerri to their side, blindsided her closest ally in Danielle making her look powerless
She started the season in a bad spot but failing to keep Danielle in the game was a game ended for her, Jerri would’ve wiped the floor with Parv at final tribal
@@XanderMatthews-nv9zf not true at all but ok, Russel knew nothing about her idols, she controlled him and made it so that no villains were aloud to flip, and used her flirtatious and cunning peronality to make sure Russel will do whatever she wants her to.
@@onepieceontop133 I have absolutely no idea how you could finish watching the season and come away with that point of view, Parvati was lucky as hell that Russell cared enough to save her at her 2nd tribal
And the whole “allowed to flip” business is a point I don’t where you’re coming from on, seasons without swaps especially in the older era of the show had an extremely low amount of flips
Than*
I was really rooting for Jake in 45. If he and some of the other players tried to get rid of Reba sooner things might have been different.
Jake that man should have won. He wanted to make so many good moves, but everybody was scared. All Austin did was try to get laid.
But the fact is he didn't make any moves. Wanting to make moves doesn't make you deserving of the win.
@@PintheDog Still more then Austin who was just trying to bang Dee! Jake was undone because everyone was scarycats!
Jake's personality is lovely but his gameplay absolutely did not deserve any votes.
@Octobris I'm trying to get laid does or well I don't want to make any good move because I don't want to make any good game play I just want to follow the leader.
@lastdayonearthmysteryman4849 Austin at least won challenges, so that helped.
i love michelle
Hannah should've won for sure. And she wasn't even bad at the final tribal, she explained very well how she made her game and controlled things but the jury seems very closed mind with her and didn't liked that she kept a huge threat like David until final 4.
“she wasn’t even bad at the final tribal”
Give me a break. Constantly interrupting is VERY bad at the final tribal.
Plus, similar to Ciera Eastin, Hannah failed to see the difference between a big move and a good move.
While I actually agree she should have won form a textbook application of game theory her FTC was not that good. She came off mostly as a heckler which decent offensive tactic but it doesn't really engender much positive emotion for your own case.
Now I still think she should have gotten Zeke, Michelle and Will's votes and had a shot at Jay, Chris, Sunday and Taylor.........(mostly cause I have no idea what Taylor's criteria even would be, he literally voted for the guy he hated the most)
@@Meodread LOL at thinking she could ever get Jay, Chris, or Sunday. That is absurd. Jay and Adam were super close, so no way Hannah is getting his vote over Adam. And then Chris HATED both Hannah and Ken, and so did Sunday, so by default Adam had their votes completely locked in that Final 3 too.
@@petreandres I mean all 3 have interviews suggesting they pondered voting for her.
Don't get me wrong. I was unsurprised Hannah lost. Her social game was quite poor with a number of people. Her game unrespected. And poorly articulated when given the chance. Her social anxiety making her Cochran 1.0 at best and Cochran 1.0 was quite bad.
But I watch a lot of jury interviews cause I wanna know their criteria, I want to know their considerations. And most of them with the exceptions of Jessica, Brett and David were considering it. Well maybe not Taylor, I remember just being incredibly confused listening to his interviews. Still no idea what his criteria was.
Xander should be on the list in my opinion
Dreamz was robbed in fiji, he played a good game, I just feel like if he explained his moves better, he could have gotten a vote or 2 from people like boo or edgardo
never had a chance after the yao ming situation. he didn't deserve the money either.
How did you not mention Xander? Played a good, flashy game but jury gave him no respect
No one mentioned him.
@@OnceUponAnIslandBecause he wasn't robbed.
Xander made a flashy play with the "you can have this fake", but from there proceeded to do nothing with his idol to the point that everyone just ignored him.
He can speak well to a camera but like... he didn't really do much beyond "waiting for the time to make a move".
Can we stop dragging Sugar especially after she attempted to you know what!
That jury was mostly villains like Chlorine and Randy.
Also as far as i know there were people who wanted to vote Michelle but were told by other that if they vote for her Tony might lose to Natalie.
Natalie's strategy was for Sarah to beat Tony and then hope to beat her. But it didn't work. If she put Michelle and she beat him, Michelle was winning it. Nats only option was for Sarah to beat Tony. If she was to go against him and she lost she was losing her runner up money too so she played it safe. Did 2nd place WaW got 200k or more that time?
Have you heard the waw jury interviews at ponderosa? It’s clear most of them didn’t respect Michele
Not surprised at Michelle’s zero vote because she even admitted that she was completely out of the loop throughout the last half of the game. She said no one would play with her and she didn’t know what was going on. Even Nick, who was supposed to be in her alliance that fell apart started playing more with Tony than her in the end. So if no one had enough respect for her to include her, why would they vote for her?
Because Nattalie played worse when she came back from the Edge.
y’all gotta read exit interviews and post game interviews….MICHELE didn’t receive votes because she was out of the loop. she didn’t receive votes because there was a select few pushing for Natalie to win. and if they split some of Tony’s votes with Michele, Natalie could’ve won on a plurality.
@@smallss7197 then vote for tony. imo tony would've and should've got a perfect game if the jury hadn't spent over a month with natalie on the edge.
@@smallss7197 Ok but that's a reason to vote for Tony as well. The Nat push was for some very specific reasons that didn't apply to Michelle.
Now I will note she should have got votes because multiple jurors said they voted for Tony as a protest vote against the Pro Natalie folks.
But the comparison of Nat vs Michelle wasn't a factor. Either the juror was Locked in on Nat or considering between Tony and Michelle.