The problem is, each phrase in this demo (and most demos) is played without any lead-in notes before a section, or any ending notes after a section. So, sure, it's easy for the "make song" feature to move his sections around or to start/stop sections, because each phrase [of the lead instrument] is 100% contained within the time-frame of its single section. As soon as you write a melody/riff that comes in _before_ the bar line, or continues a bit _after_ the bar line, the song arranger won't understand that those notes also belong to that section. So it'll cut off those notes when you rearrange the section order, and you'll never be able to actually hear what it would sound like to play your segments in a different order. There needs to be a way to associate/assign those lead-in and trailing notes to that section, so the system can include them when you rearrange sections.
Exactly. If I want to record a section, for example, between 3 bars and 4. How do I do it exactly? It's not like DAW, that I can exactly my time zone. I tried to record and it's very difficult to finish exactly in the bar zone. I find more I find myself repeatedly canceling the recorded section and recording again... it's much easier to record in DAW, than with keyboards.
You do bring up a good point. As presented here, it appears that it's got that very 'column style' approach, almost like how it is on the MPC although there are workarounds on that device. I think there were sections with different lengths here so that should help to provide a workaround.
The intro notes or the trailing notes would just be assigned as another bar wouldn't it? Instead of the static 4 bar phrases it might be 6 for those instruments doing the intro or ending. It almost has to be written out on staff paper to transfer to the screen.
I actually find this pattern sequencer help me to stay organized and creative. I love it. It's a quite capable sequencer and the issue with lead-in notes can be dealt with by creating a short intro pattern that plays before the main pattern. The one thing I would like is being able to move patterns (from one letter to another) more quickly. I currently have to copy the pattern and then delete the original.
I want my melody to come in BEFORE the 1. Literally none of these devices let us do that without taking up an entire section/group just for that pickup..
This video is very helpful in explaining how a composer can lay down a quick idea. Unfortunately, it also leads one to understand you still seem to need a DAW to deal with the nuances that exist in every composition. For example, even if you're composing a simple 4/4 pattern but have an 8th note (or quarter note or whatever) lead-in to the song, you can't insert that one note or that one "introductory measure" into the sequence / pattern. At least I haven't figured out how to do it, if you can. But this is a very helpful video and I recommend it to anyone who has just purchased a Roland Fantom.
Thats all it is though really, track ideas. You have to move to a DAW to do anything with it in terms of song creation, sequencing, copy and paste. You name it, it's so slow to do any of this on the Fantom. One thing in the fantoms favour is that the output sounds really full and glued together. It's just a pain in the scrotum to work on. For example, if you have a 16 bar played in piano section, if you want to add in a few notes on the 14 bar, you have to play the entire song through so it goes back to the beginning. It takes an eternity to work on. No audio bounce, no linear workflow, only ONE effect per zone if you have the USB on individual 16 channels in your DAW. No reverb printed or analog filter colour this way. If you mention these lacklustre, half hearted, half realised, half functional things on the Roland Facebook then you get told, well you should have trialed it at the shop or read every part of the manual so that you wouldn't be disappointed which is ridiculous. No GM MIDI implementation either. Roland pushing DAW implementation to the max whereas Akai catering for standalone.
Spot on, except that if you DO wanna run either Ableton or Logic through it plus maybe sign up for Roland Cloud this thing is unstoppable. I was gonna get the 61 but that waiting for sounds to load would drive me nuts. My friend has both and trust me , the Fantom sounds much richer and more detailed side by side w it .
You are right. All this is is a groove making machine, it cannot create a full song arrangement without having to spend hours of your life on it and that takes all the fun out of it.
Yup the Fantom series of keyboards are really just "scratch pads" for production work. It works great as a keyboard for live play and it has great DAW integration. Outside of only having one "multieffect" (insert effect) per channel it's also a great synthesizer as well. The Zencore sound design parameters can be quite the paradise for those who live for endless editing parameters. The main issue with the Fantom is failed expectations. Roland decided to use the name "Fantom." Their product specialists refer to it as a "workstation." (Although their website downplays the whole "workstation" title.) So people expect a "Roland Fantom Workstation" to have certain features automatically and rightfully so. The sampler is a "bare bones" sampler with very few features. There is no time stretching for instance. The sequencing has a 64 bar loop limit. Works great for certain genres but not all. There is no option to record in a linear fashion. The Fantom-0 only gives the user 256mb of storage for multisamples and that is shared with expansion packs. And only having one insert effect per zone becomes a bit of an achilles heel when engaging in a full production. This is simply not what people expect from a "workstation" that launched in 2019 and 2022 (Fantom-0). It's pretty clear that the sequencer and sampler were not high priorities on their list of features. So while you CAN technically create full songs on the Fantom and Fantom-0, be prepared to make some big compromises. And what I say does not come from disdain for the Fantom. It's my main keyboard. But standalone production work is just not where it shines.
@@darrickkeels6387 thanks Darrick. I’ve been using my MPC more recently and getting to know the workflow for sampling and sequencing. I’d like to marry them together but still unsure of the best way. You mentioned a Presonus mixer a while back although this is too big for my room and too expensive for my budget and a bit overkill for my set up. I’ve veered towards MPC Out to Fantom In so that I can in some way use the onboard filter and Master FX to colour my sound. The Fantom sounds fantastic and I’ve lowered my expectations somewhat so that I just learn to play better keys. Still, there are lots of little things that aren’t right and hoping for a thoughtful update sometime this year.
The Fantom O series just became available in Canada, though the 07 (which I ordered) should be around by the end of March 2023. While I'll be using it primarily as a lightweight gigging keyboard, to see the ease of use in terms of creating patterns is pretty cool.
I bought The Phantom of 6 a couple of weeks ago did the program update downloaded abelton light tried to use the key they gave me in the box to activate it it does not work as the key they gave me is for activating Ableton light 11 but you can only download able to like 12 and of course the key doesn't work so it really doesn't come in the box as he states all I got was the keyboard and a copy of abelton that doesn't connect to the keyboard key is incorrect not happy Jan
is amazing instrument. Anyone who is a good musician and wants something of quality at a better price will not find anything better. I have this cool thing, then I sample what I want like on an MPC and I do my compositions step by step, I can also play live and improvise from the screen and the controls. This machine is a great jewel, they improved this product line a lot and I really see it great to use it with Logic Pro X and also with other machines like Elektron digitakt, to use the Fantom as a sound module and sequence with Digitakt to record in real time With Logic, it's really a very good machine and the sounds, even if they aren't the best, are perfect to process and improve in the DAW.
When I started on the fantom S I use to do music via step record method I didn’t know about quantize since the Yamaha DJX never had that and to record in real time you’ll have to be real good any mess up and you’ll have to do it over so yeah I started with step time recording since tge Yamaha DJX actually the MTV Music Generator but that’s another story lol
It’s not a Daw it’s a keyboard, sounds and keyboard. And they have sequencers to record ideas etc. If you want better work flow use a daw. If you want more tactile and friendly work flow try Mpc. Workstations have always had fairly limited sequencing on them. Good enough for ideas and performance etc. Tr rec is cool. But don’t expect a recording studio.
The problem no one tells is that this is THE ONLY way of writing a song in the fantom 0. The "conventional" way is simply non existent. Good luck trying to do anything that is not a 20 second loop in that.
..just remember to set your zones and pattern lengths ahead of time exactly how you think youll want them (in the song youre still actively writing) or you will never be able to do this in real time.. Also.. all setup all of your FX and pads ahead of time before you know you want them.. you know.. as one does when improvising..
I have the 06 and find it quite limited in this regard. You can choose one time division and tempo for the whole scene. Not even per pattern, for *all* patterns. I made manual accelerando and ritardando live using the jog wheel during a song with tempo changes haha. It worked, but you know... Compared to my Elektron Octatrack this is very basic, but programming the Octatrack is way slower for me.
I’m not sure what you’re asking but in the old Fantom S I definitely have many tracks with different time signatures within 1 or 2 bars I don’t see why this wouldn’t be able to do this but I do it I’m song mode if they took that feature out that’ll be so freaking A$$ 😅
The grouping demo really solved my frustration of how to put together certain pattern to drop in the song sections. Thanks for showing us how to get ease of use out the fantom 06
Roland kills me with the jump in price from the 06 at $1600 to the 6 at 3k! Nearly double the price? Same basic software inside, a couple more knobs (I think) and what else am I paying double for? I do admit, this is worlds better then the old FA 06, but that was only around grand or so when I got it. Not to mention, if I want the very latest tech, I have to spend even more now for the Fantom EX upgrade. Roland sure doesn't give anything away these days.
You get all model expansions and acb expansion “free” with the big brother. You also get more storage and better cpu capable of more simultaneous tasks such as note remain. I do agree that the price is too high though but somebody must be buying them.
64 bars natively, in a daw, you can just write your midi inside a daw and literally send the audio from each of the 16 tracks on their own mixer channel into your daw
Great video! I would love to see more videos like this on using the Fantom-O. Question... Any idea what the juicy bass voice is that Andy used in the song? Thanks! I've watched this video at least 100 times. ; )
I realise this is an old comment, but it's the "Jupiter 4 Bass" preset from the SDZ021 New Romantic sound pack. He used the same one in a Fantom-0 video on the Roland channel
Is there any way to connect the Cubase software to the Phantom O, because I don't have Ableton and buying Ableton is an additional $300. I'd love to hear your opinion.
You can hook this up to any DAW I use the old fantom S with studio one, you just need a audio interface wan connect either the left TRS or left and right TRS cable into the audio interface. Create an audio track and arm it so you’ll be able to hear it and you’ll be good to go.
thanks for wonderful video tutorial. I have a fantom 6 and want to know how to import a full midi file from external source like a pendrive. I know that i have to go to pattern utility and then import after choosing file in memory stick but there is limitations of 64 bars . One cannot import a midi file which is longer than 64 bars unless you import it in multiple parts in sections A, B and C in parts which is tedious. Please share if there’s a straightforward method
There's none. The Fantom Fantom cannot import Patterns longer than 64 bars, there's no way around it. If you have many MIDI files from external sources and want to import them, buy a different synth. It's frustrating for many people.
This is really a pretty terrible tutorial. As someone new to this workstation and workstations like this in general, I could not at all follow what you were doing.
![[Live] ศึกมหึมันส์มวยไทยสังเวียนเดือด เวทีมวยชั่วคราวสวนสยาม | จันทร์ 30 กันยายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pM1k6f7JXUc/mqdefault.jpg)
The problem is, each phrase in this demo (and most demos) is played without any lead-in notes before a section, or any ending notes after a section. So, sure, it's easy for the "make song" feature to move his sections around or to start/stop sections, because each phrase [of the lead instrument] is 100% contained within the time-frame of its single section. As soon as you write a melody/riff that comes in _before_ the bar line, or continues a bit _after_ the bar line, the song arranger won't understand that those notes also belong to that section. So it'll cut off those notes when you rearrange the section order, and you'll never be able to actually hear what it would sound like to play your segments in a different order. There needs to be a way to associate/assign those lead-in and trailing notes to that section, so the system can include them when you rearrange sections.
I’m sure he rehearsed his performance and did a lot of tweaking before he came to the studio!!! Post production!!!
Exactly. If I want to record a section, for example, between 3 bars and 4. How do I do it exactly? It's not like DAW, that I can exactly my time zone. I tried to record and it's very difficult to finish exactly in the bar zone. I find more I find myself repeatedly canceling the recorded section and recording again... it's much easier to record in DAW, than with keyboards.
You do bring up a good point. As presented here, it appears that it's got that very 'column style' approach, almost like how it is on the MPC although there are workarounds on that device. I think there were sections with different lengths here so that should help to provide a workaround.
The intro notes or the trailing notes would just be assigned as another bar wouldn't it? Instead of the static 4 bar phrases it might be 6 for those instruments doing the intro or ending. It almost has to be written out on staff paper to transfer to the screen.
I actually find this pattern sequencer help me to stay organized and creative. I love it. It's a quite capable sequencer and the issue with lead-in notes can be dealt with by creating a short intro pattern that plays before the main pattern. The one thing I would like is being able to move patterns (from one letter to another) more quickly. I currently have to copy the pattern and then delete the original.
This song could be done also in 2004 on an old fantomx, nothin really new, but definitly the performer is Professional!
You had me extremely confused at the beginning with the Fantom-6 on the table and not the Fantom-06...:)
Yes. What was the purpose of that?
Want one of these so bad. Can't truly justify it as my existing midi keyboard is really good enough for my skill level, but I still want.
you never need to justify buying gear, it's all about fun.
We're supposed to be "playing" these things.
Don’t be cheap
I want my melody to come in BEFORE the 1. Literally none of these devices let us do that without taking up an entire section/group just for that pickup..
This video is very helpful in explaining how a composer can lay down a quick idea. Unfortunately, it also leads one to understand you still seem to need a DAW to deal with the nuances that exist in every composition. For example, even if you're composing a simple 4/4 pattern but have an 8th note (or quarter note or whatever) lead-in to the song, you can't insert that one note or that one "introductory measure" into the sequence / pattern. At least I haven't figured out how to do it, if you can. But this is a very helpful video and I recommend it to anyone who has just purchased a Roland Fantom.
This was the best showcasing of this unit that I seen so far. Amazing stuff brother...SBN RESONATE
Hello ! Is it possible to load long samples ( about 4min) through the pads ?
Thats all it is though really, track ideas. You have to move to a DAW to do anything with it in terms of song creation, sequencing, copy and paste. You name it, it's so slow to do any of this on the Fantom. One thing in the fantoms favour is that the output sounds really full and glued together. It's just a pain in the scrotum to work on. For example, if you have a 16 bar played in piano section, if you want to add in a few notes on the 14 bar, you have to play the entire song through so it goes back to the beginning. It takes an eternity to work on. No audio bounce, no linear workflow, only ONE effect per zone if you have the USB on individual 16 channels in your DAW. No reverb printed or analog filter colour this way.
If you mention these lacklustre, half hearted, half realised, half functional things on the Roland Facebook then you get told, well you should have trialed it at the shop or read every part of the manual so that you wouldn't be disappointed which is ridiculous. No GM MIDI implementation either. Roland pushing DAW implementation to the max whereas Akai catering for standalone.
Spot on, except that if you DO wanna run either Ableton or Logic through it plus maybe sign up for Roland Cloud this thing is unstoppable. I was gonna get the 61 but that waiting for sounds to load would drive me nuts. My friend has both and trust me , the Fantom sounds much richer and more detailed side by side w it .
You are right. All this is is a groove making machine, it cannot create a full song arrangement without having to spend hours of your life on it and that takes all the fun out of it.
Yup the Fantom series of keyboards are really just "scratch pads" for production work. It works great as a keyboard for live play and it has great DAW integration. Outside of only having one "multieffect" (insert effect) per channel it's also a great synthesizer as well. The Zencore sound design parameters can be quite the paradise for those who live for endless editing parameters. The main issue with the Fantom is failed expectations. Roland decided to use the name "Fantom." Their product specialists refer to it as a "workstation." (Although their website downplays the whole "workstation" title.) So people expect a "Roland Fantom Workstation" to have certain features automatically and rightfully so. The sampler is a "bare bones" sampler with very few features. There is no time stretching for instance. The sequencing has a 64 bar loop limit. Works great for certain genres but not all. There is no option to record in a linear fashion. The Fantom-0 only gives the user 256mb of storage for multisamples and that is shared with expansion packs. And only having one insert effect per zone becomes a bit of an achilles heel when engaging in a full production. This is simply not what people expect from a "workstation" that launched in 2019 and 2022 (Fantom-0). It's pretty clear that the sequencer and sampler were not high priorities on their list of features. So while you CAN technically create full songs on the Fantom and Fantom-0, be prepared to make some big compromises. And what I say does not come from disdain for the Fantom. It's my main keyboard. But standalone production work is just not where it shines.
@@darrickkeels6387 thanks Darrick. I’ve been using my MPC more recently and getting to know the workflow for sampling and sequencing. I’d like to marry them together but still unsure of the best way. You mentioned a Presonus mixer a while back although this is too big for my room and too expensive for my budget and a bit overkill for my set up. I’ve veered towards MPC Out to Fantom In so that I can in some way use the onboard filter and Master FX to colour my sound. The Fantom sounds fantastic and I’ve lowered my expectations somewhat so that I just learn to play better keys. Still, there are lots of little things that aren’t right and hoping for a thoughtful update sometime this year.
@@darrickkeels6387 Sketchpad sequencer notwithstanding, which synth would you choose at this point in time between Fantom 0 and Yamaha MODX+?
Brilliant showcase. SO easy to understand, need to do more tutorials
The Fantom O series just became available in Canada, though the 07 (which I ordered) should be around by the end of March 2023. While I'll be using it primarily as a lightweight gigging keyboard, to see the ease of use in terms of creating patterns is pretty cool.
Greetings from Las Vegas 🎰
Behind my Fantom06 🎹🤗
I bought The Phantom of 6 a couple of weeks ago did the program update downloaded abelton light tried to use the key they gave me in the box to activate it it does not work as the key they gave me is for activating Ableton light 11 but you can only download able to like 12 and of course the key doesn't work so it really doesn't come in the box as he states all I got was the keyboard and a copy of abelton that doesn't connect to the keyboard key is incorrect not happy Jan
Can u use sampeled tones or an the panterns you just created in an "arranger mode" ? which means basiclly play back with possibilty to chnaage chords?
Amazing. But is possible why d fanton can be this, and roland fa we can't rec this form😢
is amazing instrument.
Anyone who is a good musician and wants something of quality at a better price will not find anything better.
I have this cool thing, then I sample what I want like on an MPC and I do my compositions step by step, I can also play live and improvise from the screen and the controls.
This machine is a great jewel, they improved this product line a lot and I really see it great to use it with Logic Pro X and also with other machines like Elektron digitakt, to use the Fantom as a sound module and sequence with Digitakt to record in real time With Logic, it's really a very good machine and the sounds, even if they aren't the best, are perfect to process and improve in the DAW.
When I started on the fantom S I use to do music via step record method I didn’t know about quantize since the Yamaha DJX never had that and to record in real time you’ll have to be real good any mess up and you’ll have to do it over so yeah I started with step time recording since tge Yamaha DJX actually the MTV Music Generator but that’s another story lol
Can't buy the Fantom 06 anywhere though! Out of stock everywhere
You know you've put wrong keyboard in the intro? Right?
I have a fantom 08 it sets in its box peice of crap
why cant i hear the rhythm patters on the synth.. it shows it play but no sound
Andy needs his own TH-cam Channel!! Does he have one??
Second this - great clarity. Something on creative use of it’s LFO would get my vote 😊
Hi mate. I think I have your keyboard at home. I bought ex-demo version
00:12 "On the Roland Fantom O-series" (meanwhile showing a 'big' Fantom... Sloppy!!!)
00:19 And again. That's a Fantom. Not a Fantom *O* .
they said done on purpose above both boards work like this so relavent to both models
Super video ... just answered a myriad of questions i had ... thank you so much!!
But does it have audio tracks?
How to save the final song ?
It’s not a Daw it’s a keyboard, sounds and keyboard. And they have sequencers to record ideas etc. If you want better work flow use a daw. If you want more tactile and friendly work flow try Mpc. Workstations have always had fairly limited sequencing on them. Good enough for ideas and performance etc. Tr rec is cool. But don’t expect a recording studio.
How do you export your song in wave format, and not roland file format?
I think you have to sample it in realtime to a pad THEN export the resulting wav file.
Hello guys from Tallinn! I am first today!
Hello from York, and welcome to our new video! 👍👍
Wow❤
Hi. How many full songs can store in internal memory? To launch as playback on a live stage? Thank you.
Who works strictly in a workstation anymore? All the complaints that it can't do what a DAW does. Well yeah, but you missed the point.
The problem no one tells is that this is THE ONLY way of writing a song in the fantom 0. The "conventional" way is simply non existent. Good luck trying to do anything that is not a 20 second loop in that.
This is a great machine. I just complain about the lack of probability in the tr-rec or any where.
How do send an SMF to my DAW. I know how to hook logic up and send Audio but I want the SMF of my song after I arrange the order
Sorry but this is just a rehearsed live performance. And no one wants to hear you setup a loop with a click track live.
..just remember to set your zones and pattern lengths ahead of time exactly how you think youll want them (in the song youre still actively writing) or you will never be able to do this in real time.. Also.. all setup all of your FX and pads ahead of time before you know you want them.. you know.. as one does when improvising..
I have never seen a demo showing if poly-rhythms are possible by having two or three zones specified as 16, 15 and 14 step sequences.
I have the 06 and find it quite limited in this regard. You can choose one time division and tempo for the whole scene. Not even per pattern, for *all* patterns. I made manual accelerando and ritardando live using the jog wheel during a song with tempo changes haha. It worked, but you know... Compared to my Elektron Octatrack this is very basic, but programming the Octatrack is way slower for me.
Only one time signature at a time. No time signature changes possible in a Song. It is what it is.
I’m not sure what you’re asking but in the old Fantom S I definitely have many tracks with different time signatures within 1 or 2 bars I don’t see why this wouldn’t be able to do this but I do it I’m song mode if they took that feature out that’ll be so freaking A$$ 😅
The grouping demo really solved my frustration of how to put together certain pattern to drop in the song sections. Thanks for showing us how to get ease of use out the fantom 06
why do you guys keep swapping the real fantom in over the fantom 0?
Fantastic Andy, damn your good! moooore!
Thank you for this explanation!!! This is what I needed to see for when I buy my Fantom I’ll be aware and ahead of the learning curve!!!
Roland kills me with the jump in price from the 06 at $1600 to the 6 at 3k! Nearly double the price? Same basic software inside, a couple more knobs (I think) and what else am I paying double for? I do admit, this is worlds better then the old FA 06, but that was only around grand or so when I got it. Not to mention, if I want the very latest tech, I have to spend even more now for the Fantom EX upgrade. Roland sure doesn't give anything away these days.
You get all model expansions and acb expansion “free” with the big brother. You also get more storage and better cpu capable of more simultaneous tasks such as note remain. I do agree that the price is too high though but somebody must be buying them.
Does it record the songs onto a SD card ?
Darn thats a horrible voice
how maximum bars can be use with the patern recording?[ when recording windows open in keyboard ]
64 bars natively, in a daw, you can just write your midi inside a daw and literally send the audio from each of the 16 tracks on their own mixer channel into your daw
but is it cool?
Is a DI box required to connect to Rodecaster Pro or play on CPU?
No, the outputs are line level and can go straight in.
Great video! I would love to see more videos like this on using the Fantom-O.
Question... Any idea what the juicy bass voice is that Andy used in the song? Thanks! I've watched this video at least 100 times. ; )
It’s nice isn’t it. He said Jupiter 4 style base (you can check this in the Transcript). Might be a paid plugin…
I realise this is an old comment, but it's the "Jupiter 4 Bass" preset from the SDZ021 New Romantic sound pack. He used the same one in a Fantom-0 video on the Roland channel
Super hit 👆 👌
sounds a lot like all the other stuff nowadays made.
👍
Excellent tutorial and on the fly music composition. Very well explained. This synth is complex so need to watch multiple times.
Is there any way to connect the Cubase software to the Phantom O, because I don't have Ableton and buying Ableton is an additional $300. I'd love to hear your opinion.
You can hook this up to any DAW I use the old fantom S with studio one, you just need a audio interface wan connect either the left TRS or left and right TRS cable into the audio interface. Create an audio track and arm it so you’ll be able to hear it and you’ll be good to go.
thanks for wonderful video tutorial. I have a fantom 6 and want to know how to import a full midi file from external source like a pendrive. I know that i have to go to pattern utility and then import after choosing file in memory stick but there is limitations of 64 bars . One cannot import a midi file which is longer than 64 bars unless you import it in multiple parts in sections A, B and C in parts which is tedious. Please share if there’s a straightforward method
There's none. The Fantom Fantom cannot import Patterns longer than 64 bars, there's no way around it. If you have many MIDI files from external sources and want to import them, buy a different synth. It's frustrating for many people.
This is really a pretty terrible tutorial. As someone new to this workstation and workstations like this in general, I could not at all follow what you were doing.
Read the title