"The mark of someone's character is what they do with their power." So strong. I needed this exact episode. I'm recently divorced and agree that as difficult as the truth is, it WILL come out. Do the right thing, early and often. Life is too short. I told my now ex- husband that we just need to rip off the bandaid and get on with our own lives. Affairs are never good for anybody but there is another chapter for everyone. Everyone deserves respect and dignity.
Ask, “Are you married?” If they are honest and say, “Yes,”…run, run, run. Absolutely never, ever, go for it, no matter how fabulous, charismatic, honest, rich, sincere, beautiful, ripped, attracting, charming like no other ever. Rule of life, 1.2.3., like real estate. Walk away and thank God for unanswered prayers.
People also love to dismiss love as infatuation. Once you felt "supernatural" love or Shakespearean love as I like to call it, you know it can happen at any time between any two people whether there's a "future" or not. In fact, if can happen between people who would not be good marriage partners, takes maturity to know this because that kind of love you're lucky to experience it at least once in your life.
She needs to leave this man unless he divorces and actually leaves. It's a workplace crush with flirting it's exciting but not worth loosing his marriage .
Divorce Lawyer On Signs Of A Doomed Relationship-James Sexton podcast🌞 Marriage And Severe Avoidant Attachers - Ken Reid podcast 🌞 Why You Choose The Wrong People-Ken Reid podcast 🌞 Never Forgive Infidelity Cheating-Sam Vaknin podcast 🌞 What You Need To Do To In Order To Recover Off The Back Of A Bad Breakup 🌞 Healing From A Breakup-Ken Reid podcast 🌞 Self Love To Self Healing -Sam Vaknin podcast ♥️ Take Back Your Life Own It! Sam Vaknin podcast ♥️
I have fallen into the trap of falling for a married man. I am 52 years & not married. Please believe me when I told you that he is not going to leave her for you.
Of course he's not! He's having his cake and eating it, too! He's getting the best of both worlds. As long as the wife doesn't find out what's going on, he's not going anywhere!
Normally yes but not always. I was that guy and ultimately did get the divorce and married the "mistress" and we have been married 15 years. To add, I have never stepped outside the marriage. Definitely not the norm but there are exceptions to the rule
Rarely do they leave. The cake and eat it too. James Sexton has excellent educational podcasts Never Forgive Infidelity Cheating-Sam Vaknin podcast Married and attached men are kryptonite. Think of their wife or girlfriend. Players are also kryptonite. Do you want to be part of a harem?
I was in a very similar situation decades ago. It was incredible, crazy making, painful and I felt SO MUCH PAIN! Fortunately I got out but it was not easy since we worked together and had to see each other every day. When I went on to date an AVAILABLE man my former “partner” began constantly criticizing my new man. Ridiculous. I did end up leaving that job. I made a lot of sacrifices because of that. It was heartbreaking. It is the only way to honor yourself and live in your values. Thank you both for this episode. I am sure many snap judge these situations and do not understand how it can happen. Matthew - I appreciated the way you explained how it can happen so much easier than “dating/ looking” for love and a partner. It helps me feel less shame about even “letting” it happen!!
Remember this: If he/she cheated on their partner with you, they will eventually do it to you as well. It really speaks to their character, and a host of underlying problems that predispose them to lie and cheat. Problems that don’t magically disappear with you, even if it appears that way for a while. And there will always be looming mistrust and disrespect for each other (even if no one admits it) for engaging in an affair. The success rate of people who date the person they cheated with is about 5%
I was once the wife who was cheated on. I had 2 small kids at home. Don't be the other woman. It won't work as soon as you become the main he will start looking for another one. Dont be naive and say "he will chamge for me," he wont. The stories he is telling you can be bunch of lies.
I’m sorry to hear that. I hope you’re OK today. When I was younger, I was approached by several married males, and I always turned them down. Because even though I was young, I had ethics and I said if I was married, I wouldn’t want my husband doing that to me. Now that I’m older and a widow, I’m glad I never breached my personal policy
Ah, the crazy wife scenario. Not while they were dating, not when he decided to propose, not when they said I DO, not when they had sex and got pregnant. . . . Honestly, why do they always think that is a good excuse?
Yeah obviously the woman he shares all of life’s stresses with, including raising their children, will seem “crazier” than a woman he doesn’t share any responsibilities with. He has seen his wife on her worst days. He hasnt seen his mistress on her worst days.
What about the scenario where they got pregnant by accident but decided to keep it/stay together/become a family...have had an off and on relationship? And don't share values/big life goals?
@@annapclarke1293 even if a man says he is married only for the children, your relationship can only continue in one of two ways. 1. he leaves his wife to be with you and breaks up his family, creating a broken home and chaos for the children. The children will always see you as the other woman that broke up their parents. 2. He keeps his family together. You continue being the side chick and never the wife. Any woman in this position should ask herself: why do you think that’s the relationship you deserve? Why are you willing to put yourself into a relationship you’ll never be the main woman or it causes total chaos? Why don’t you think you deserve to be the main woman from the beginning, in a stable relationship that does not cause emotional turmoil for innocent children? Also important to note, men have a tendency to lie to get women into bed. He says he is married only for the children. Does his wife know this? Does she agree? Are they openly seeing other people? If she does know, I’d still refer to the questions in the paragraph above. If she doesn’t know, that man is a liar. And it’s only a matter of time until he lies to you too. Both you and the wife deserve better. *edited for clarity
I was last year in the same position. I let him go and said: “Once you are a free man i will be happy to hear from you and if I am free woman at that point of my life, i would love to go out on a real date with you”. We parted ways with mutual understanding ❤️❤❤
@@emilytaylor1001 but why would you want to hear from him if he is the type of man that will even for a second entertain women outside of his marriage? What makes you think that he wouldn’t do the same thing to you if you got married to him? A cheat is a cheat. They are opportunistic by nature and that doesn’t change if they have a “great” partner. You dodged a bullet for sure.
@@thecrazymuzician1 It is not only people who are evel by nature that happen to cheat. Cheating can happen to people with a conscience, who do it out of lack of mental tools to handle a sour relationship and understand what they want and need. Not every cheater is a serial cheater. If the person in Emily`s comment is simply stranded and not by nature evil, she is giving him the space to manage his relationship maturely and maybe reach out to her as a single person. That makes total sense.
Married and attached men are kryptonite. Think of their wife and girlfriend. Hand's off. Players are also kryptonite. Think about being part of a harem and juggling act. Never Forgive Infidelity Cheating-Sam Vaknin podcast🌞 Divorce Lawyer On Signs Of A Doomed Relationship -James Sexton podcast 🌞 Why You Choose The Wrong People-Ken Reid podcast 🌞 What You Need To Do In Order To Recover Off The Back Of A Bad Breakup - Ken Reid podcast 🌞 Healing From A Breakup-Ken Reid podcast 🌞 Ken Reads Episode 20 They're Still Acting Like A Player podcast 🌞 Self Love To Self Healing -Sam Vaknin podcast ♥️ Take Back Your Life Own It! Sam Vaknin podcast ♥️. Biology is psychology. Behavior is a language.
He treats you well and is vulnerable with you because he’s not invested in you or married to you and will say anything to keep you around. Everything he tells you about his poor wife is a LIE.
Oh yes.. been there, covert narcissistic abuser..no excuse for cheating and absolutely no excuse for it. The expression once a cheater always a cheater is true. If he cheats with you he’ll cheat ON you. And he has no respect for you and owes you nothing.
TRUTH. Temporarily disenchanted with “the wife” and intrigued by YOU, he’s a consummate player, liar and cheater out to ensure his needs get met via empty promises, empty words, promises he knows he has no intention of fulfilling, ETC.
Yes. I been there, done there. Was so unbelievable naive believe what he said . My explanation for myself was that I never even thought those extremely great liars exist .They should have Oscar for that role .
Mistress told me that he never spoke bad about me so that made it worse for her to deal with. She told me what he was doing (with her) was not right and she felt bad for participating. Nevertheless she did not remove herself and stayed 8 years. A double life for sure. She told me how they pulled it off all those years.
I think women who date/go after/seduce/ are attracted to committed men are avoiding rejection. They can tell themselves it is because he is in a relationship rather than take a risk with someone who isn't and might not want them. It's an easy way to gain BIG validation since he denies someone else for them and if he doesn't cheat with them then it's because he can't not because he wanted to
Most powerful line for me was "Character is demonstrated by the choices one makes when they have power." -Oof, so good! I always also like the line/statistic that 100% of divorces started with a lifelong commitment that can only be broken upon death. That in mind, something probably similar to the connection Jenny feels they have, he probably had with his wife to drive him to get married and have a child. I would always be suspicious that whatever happened between the courtship and now would happen again... once the reality of smelling your farts, the predictability of foreplay, or the routine/familiarity of dates/activities set in, will I be the one villainized and tossed aside? And if things evolved eventually to the point of marriage, I doubt I could be at the altar and hear "til death do us part" and not think "hm, heard that one before..." Poor Jenny. I hope she find a new connection even better after leaving this guy. It's a bit sad that no one has treated her this good before and that being loved is scarce in her world and she feels this is her only opportunity. I'll be rooting for her, that being loved and treated with kindess, compassion and as a priority will become something she's very accustomed to and can have a buffet of loving choices to choose from down the road. Thanks Jenny, Matthew and Audrey for an amazing and insightful episode!
Dear Audrey and Matthew, The anxiety, grief, nerves and fear in such a situation are not worth it. (P. S. The conversation with the grief expert is incredibly comforting and awesome. Thank you).
Women need to respect one another and hold each other up. If you meet a man who is either married or has a girlfriend just move on. You'll be saving yourself, and her, from a huge amount of pain.
No sir. Women are not responsible for the actions of MEN. I know it hurts but being entitled to telling other women to choose your best interests is just too much. Do you have the same standards when it comes to men or you just blame women? I think some men are always going to cheat and there will always be someone to do so, that's why call girls exist.
There's something else. When a man wants to cheat on his wife, you're "special" only if you say yes. If you say no to him, he'll find someone else to have an affair with. Don't fall for "we were meant to be". He was supposed to think he was meant to be with his wife, the mother of his children.
I was in a similar situation. We were door-to-door neighbors (it was his “work home”). This podcast captured the truth and reality without shaming the AP. I also bought into his victimhood story when in actuality I now believe he is a narcissist or possibly sociopath. I ended up selling my unit (for other reasons too, but that was one of them). I couldn’t stay in that environment. That was one of the most destructive experiences of my life, it can cost years of recovery and rebuilding, and the guilt and shame fester since there is no real solution. I cannot state the importance of needing a safe place and people to be able to have this type of conversation and guidance - and also, to protect yourself from ever being in this situation. It is absolutely not worth it. Thank you so much to Matthew & Aubrey for beautifully navigating this difficult and important discussion.
I think delving more into topics like these - like pitfalls in marriage, monogamy, affairs etc would be a fantastic growth opportunity for Matt and Audrey’s podcast. ❤❤
Some target a person who is insecure and buys into the competitive and scarcity mindsets when it comes to dating. This person essentially gets used as a "useful idiot" to get back at the ex, the current, or some other rival. They lovebomb/flatter this person while demonizing the target and this can turn into abuse by proxy if the side is gullible enough. The side is the one that gets charged for harassment, assault, etc. against the ex and the instigator's hands remain clean.
Yes. I didn’t realise because we were the same age, but as soon as we hit 30, after 10 years together, he left me for an 18 year old foster kid. It absolutely destroyed me and I was disgusted with myself for being part of it. Like I made him look like a suitable partner and that enabled him to prey on a foster kid and made it easy for him to convince her I was crazy and he was a victim - because I was furious.
yes, opportunists at work. You spend 5 days / 40 hours a week together, it is not as if he even has to go outside to find external partner. Do not mix business with pleasure.
After 6 years of marriage, I found out that my husband had been dating his colleague for around 2.5 years. Note, he never told me so; I found out! I even spoke to that girl. She said to me she didn't know he was married and has a child at the beginning. Now she knows but she still thinks he has reasons to be unhappy. She adviced me that may be I should learn from him why he is unhappy. She literally had no idea about me. I couldn't believe he had painted such a picture to her. I told her he claimed to be in love with me in the past and till that day I believed it to be true. I will be happy for you if at least he stays honest with you. I thank God, I could see his reality because of you. I am out of his life. I left, never to look back again.
These men give your brain chronic trauma bond that affects you neurologically and I have got first hand experience and it's extremely physically painful , like an incurable disease
A big applause to both presenters for exposing the intentions of someone married choosing their ego and what's best for them over the other party's happiness, there is nothing healthy in relationships like that, it's a trap with severe consequences 😢
1) He married her, as far as we know he didn’t have a gun to his head. He loved his wife enough at one point to think she was “the one”, enough to enter a binding legal contract. If he was wrong about her, he could be wrong about you. OR take comfort in the fact that you could be wrong about him. 2) If you give that ultimatum, and his wife does withhold his child. You, and only you, will get the blame for that. He will resent you for making him choose between his child and you. Be very careful if you see any signs of this.
I've been seeing a married man since January and we were definitely falling in love. However he just could not make the time and he was always up front that he was never leaving his marriage because of his son. The biggest issue when you are seeing someone who is married is they just do not have the time for you. I believe that people do fall out of love and I don't believe a sexless marriage is fair for anyone to be in. Obviously he needs to leave his marriage but I can't be the one to ask that. So I broke it off with him and I feel like that was the perfect decision for me.
I had a similar situation beside he was not married but in a relationship since 9 years with a little son. He was very ambivalent in his behaviour, very unsure about his own actions what lead us to an on/off affair (off-time were just a few days). He always came back but he never was sure about what he wanted. So I left. I couldn't handle the hot and cold behaviour anymore, it really broke me in the end.
@@Polly1589 I'm so sorry it broke you. I felt great about my decision to end it. I'm good with whatever happens and decided not to get attached to whether he decides to end his other relationship or not.
@veganbetti You’re not be honest with yourself. If he’s cheating on his wife, he has no integrity and he’s a coward. Cheating is a CHOICE. You choose to swallow his version of his marriage. How can you know the truth, without hearing his wife’s side of the story. Good that you left
They don't have time because they literally have a family!!! A sexless marriage is the first LIE they will tell you because they want you to fall for it, and you did The perfect decision would have been not to be a mistress....know your worth
What a fantastic podcast on such a difficult subject! Well done. 👏 I think so many people besides Jenny will benefit tremendously from such an intelligent, sensitive and encouraging discussion. You two are a wonderful pair! ❤
This podcast was so helpful. It was exactly my situation and now she's moved on and blamed me while she cheated on him with me and pursued me...a tragic lesson to learn but a worthwhile one
I did enjoy the conversation, though I must say, for once I find myself not agreeing with Matt and Audrey as much as usual. Situations like this one usually have a lot of shades of grey and rarely come down to "the cheater just has a bad character". When kids are involved, the fear of them being taken away often comes above any strong love that the 'cheater' might be feeling for someone else. It's not easy to just make a decision and respond to an ultimatum within a month from it happening. One of my husband and I's great friends separated from his partner for a while and decided to go into a new relationship with a girl he absolutely adored. He has a heart of absolute gold, but in the end he could give all of himself to this new relationship because the fear of losing his daughter was bigger than anything else. Sometimes people just need to be a bit more understanding of someone's complicated circumstances, especially where they claim there's big love. Not everyone is a liar and a bad cheat.
Is this guy still with the new girl? Also, they don't say the guy in this relationship can't take time away from it, deal with his current marriage and then come back later. The writer here needs to walk away and let him do what he needs to do. The cheater here, if he does not do that, does have "bad character". Also, "my husband and I's" is not correct. Take away "my husband" and see how it sounds - which is "one of I's great friends". Instead, it should be "one of my and my husband's great friends".
@@kimberlyf4888 no, he's not with her anymore unfortunately, but I brought it up because the conversations they were having before it ended were similar to the ones the writer mentions in Matt's video. Despite the fact that he's been separated from his wife for a month he just wasn't able to give the new girl as much of his time, or to introduce her into his daughter's life because of fear that his ex-partner would take the child away from him. So when his gf wanted more commitment and to just have an 100% normal relationship where she would just act like his daughter's step mum straightaway, he just couldn't give her that. It was too soon and too complicated for him to risk everything because she wanted things to happen in her 'normal' ways straightaway. I'm not saying his way was right or that she had high demands or anything like that. They both, in my eyes, had reasonable arguments in the dynamic, which is why my comment to Matt's video was more like "there's A LOT MORE GREY" in situations like this. I certainly don't think in the video we all watched, they have enough proof from the email to say the guy has a bad character, is not right for her etc.
@@alexandraneag1229I see what you mean, but maybe they were pressed for time on the podcast and only hit the main points. Plus Matt had to give advice right away.
Matthew you made such a a good point about the husband convincing himself and believing his own stories about the terribie marriage to try to justify the affair. The same thing happened to me last year, my ex husband (28 years’together) had an affair and after I found out he decided to leave our family and 2 teenage kids to be with this woman. He tried to convince so many people that he was in a toxic marriage, to justify his actions. My 20 year old son hasn’t spoken to him since he left. All so sad for the whole family and so many relationships fractured because of this. He has lost everything now and not even sure if he’s still with that woman he left us for…..
Been there,he was separated from wife and we loved each other dearly…till he thought about the divorce and financial implications and went back.Left broken hearted,he eventually left marriage but got a different woman. 1:07
I wish i stumbbled on this video few months ago. I am now in the grieving stage. For little context, my married sp and I, are no longer in communication. This situation seriously affected me. I was sure that he had feelings for me (due to his actions) although he had never claimed it. I think a married man can leave his wife but it is not always the case. Some of them love the comfort the other one brings to them. Moreover, if they share the same accomodation, proprieties, children : chances are low. If he does not officially commit to you, leave him, grieve, cry, bring the best to your life and move on. I know, it is not easy but some months are better to be sacrified than years.
If he officially commits to you when he’s married, still run. My marriage is ending due to him having an affair. It seems so obvious from my point of view, my husband was just attracted to all the brain chemicals released during the early stages of a relationship. As those chemicals fade, that’s when real love begins. That’s when the deep, loyal love begins. My husband cheated because as soon as life got a little stressful, he wanted to chase those new love chemicals instead of dealing with the problems head on. I now know he has done the same in previous relationships. He will continue to do the same with every woman he will be with. Good luck to the next girl that’s all I gotta say.
To Matthews point about doing the right thing under duress being forced to is different than “Grace under pressure, which is a true test of character “ I always say.
Thank you so much for addressing this subject. I am in a similar situation for the last 15 months and it's absolutely heart breaking. No one can win. He told me he was leaving and I should have waited for that to happen as now he has changed his mind and doesn't think he can leave. I'm devastated and feeling very trapped in this awful situation.
@heatjub1317 I’d like to offer you a piece of advice from a wife’s perspective, if you don’t mind. Unless their home life is absolutely treacherous, the likelihood of him leaving his wife is probably close to null. I would also bet you weren’t the only one he’s cheated with. If his wife is smart, she may already know who you are, she just hasn’t said anything and she’s gathering the information/evidence she needs when she finally decides to divorce him. At least that’s what I would do.😉 I don’t know where you’re located but some states in the US allow the wife to sue the mistress for alienation of affection/emotional distress if the mistress got involved with the husband knowing he was married. I’m sure you’re a very nice person and you deserve better. Good luck to you.😊
@@pattyc655 girl you're pathetic. Why all the blame is on women? Sue your man. I'm just laughing how you put so much hate into a woman that is not married to you. If you get cheated on and keep your husband, you're the clown here
People cannot help feelings, especially affection and love. What they can help is the choices they make when they deal with their feelings. An adult considers the feelings of others and they act accordingly. You still go in the direction that makes you happy, but you do it with love and honesty. Getting involved with a married person romantically is getting involved with someone who is currently betraying his own commitment to someone. He is not a stand up guy at this point in his life. He is incapable of being any more loyal to her than his wife until he does the inner work. Knowing what you really want and then honestly discussing it with your spouse and, if it comes to that, breaking up as kindly, supportively and lovingly as possible is the best that anyone can do and he will need to do that in order to grow enough to be someone who can be loyal in the future. Cheating is wrong, not because they own you. It's wrong because you are not being honest (with yourself or them) or loyal.
Oh Matthew, so wish ur my counsellor! I’m going thru an extremely rough time! Even my therapist is like, “hell, you have had a lot going on the last few years! A brother who killed himself, a lost job at 62, making me move back home after 25 years of living away, and recently involved with married man, something I’d never dreamed of! But I was in a place, vulnerable, alone, etc and really thought they weren’t together. With it all, I almost took my life, just feeling like, what is wrong with me?”… am so f’ing empty! Thank u for making things clear!
:( how awful. im deeply sorry you are going through so much. hang in there, i know what it's like to feel that low and eventually see the light again. We want you here
Men can delay marriage or forego it altogether. They don't need to be married to be a father or to have a woman live with them. So when a man gets married, he is making a conscious decision to set someone apart as belonging to him, and he wants the law of the land to know it. It's a huge sign of respect, and frankly society doesn't even demand it of him. Then we have the child. How young is she? Five? Three? Let's say she's five. Five years ago his wife was good enough to be the mother of his child, the person he wanted to procreate with. What man would have a child with a woman he knew to be terrible? If she were so bad, the last thing he'd do is have a kid with her and be stuck with her the rest of his life, even if they got divorced. I remember a quote "When you marry your mistress, you create an open position." If this person can treat their spouse so poorly, the person they announced to the world they wanted to be legally bound to, he will treat the other woman 10x worse. And if you manage to get the guy, the second you have needs or problems, he'll start looking around for someone 'more fun'. However he's treating his wife is how he treats his wife. Whoever fills the Wife position will be treated that way.
I absolutely loved how you looked at the problem. How you explained the process of getting into it almost unconsciously. At first I wanted to say “ girl it is your fault, you should have known better. And then I saw the other side of it. Love… people do crazy things. I hope Jenny will listen carefully to the advice and have enough strength to get out from it as soon as possible. There is a beautiful person that will really appreciate you Jenny ❤
Exactly. Once a cheater, always a cheater! The cycle is not going to stop simply because he leaves his wife for you! He'll just eventually find a new mistress and start the same BS all over again!
Matthew and Audrey, thank you for always standing up for honesty and integrity. You shared great insights. Love this podcast. Matthew, your level of empathy is out of this world.
I love how Matthew and Audrey talk about any subject, make a disection, and explain it from many angles. I also appreciates that you don't judge in a moral way, you just explain how do you see things, so that the audience can notice something they have missed.
I don’t get it. If the hottest man in the world started flirting with me, and I found out he was married, he is no longer hot to me. He is disgusting. Loyalty is sexy. Men that prioritize their family are sexy.
Probably it has never happened to you. I know sounds illogical but in the game of love many things are like that. Let's not judge from prejudice and actually be open to learning. If you don't get it, it has never happened to you, why are you losing your time here contributing nothing but judgement? For real
What I love about Matt being married now and having Audrey on his show is that we also have a female perspective on the issues that are discussed. She is so smart insightful.
Women need to have more respect for themselves. Everyone experiences the feeling of flattery/ego boost when they receive attention from somebody. If you find out the person paying you the attention is married or in a relationship, you've got to ask yourself about the character/morals of this person. Is this REALLY the type of person YOU want to be spending time with? Why would you waste your emotional time with such a person?
Thank you for the insight. Very informative episode. I truly believe in character, integrity and discipline. Empathy is a big one too. We as people must know right from wrong no matter how much we crave being loved. Separate work from private life and to always look at peoples actions above their words. Another thing is if someone speaks ill of others it is a bad sign of that persons maturity, so be aware. Hear both sides before you choose to think highly of that person. You might be surprised about what the other side has to say. Be on your guard and don’t let people take advantage of your good heart. Also take peoples words with a grain of salt, because of course they want to come off good in front of you.
This is such a difficult situation to be in, but it could happen to anyone... and youre certainly not a bad person at all. i do hope things turn out right .... wishing this person Jenny all the very best .
OH MY GOD THIS IS SO RELATABLE!!! Insane! I wish I had this knowledge bloody six years ago!!! Exactly this kind of relationship with exactly this kind of person with COMPLETE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND EMPATHY costed me six years of life, my best friend, my job at the time and quite a good relationship Insane
Nope. Let him go, and find out why you fell for someone taken, because there’s likely a reason it didn’t immediately turn you off that he was willing to cheat. You can heal and find someone worthwhile ❤
I’ve been in both sides but I didn’t know he had somebody. I found out 5 months into the relationship that he had a double life. He left her for me (more like she left him)… n I was dumb enough to continue w him after finding out. He did the same thing to me later on. Never again. I wasted years of my life with that person. I was so miserable. Lots of emotional abuse. Even today I am dealing with the trauma from those years. If you find yourself in this situation run asap.
41:55 not only is he not exercising empathy, he is breaking his vow of fidelity that he made at their marriage. He is showing himself to be certainly not a man of his word. What then, does either woman get except lies.
Walk away. Even if he thinks you are the one and he is sincere of his feelings for you you are putting your life on hold for someone you do not truly know. Maybe when he cleans up his life and is divorced for a time you can try again. He will need to court you properly and make the effort to have a true relationship. But don’t forget you are the rebound either way.
I cleary attract lots of married men since I m single, sexy ,depressed & vulnerable. Go and Ask why men are such Predators. I dis not ask for this. ( I also attract single men).
Two things come to mind without bias. If he can put that much energy into her, he can put that energy into his wife and child. That relationship deserves his priority over Jenny. If he does it with you, he’ll do it to you. This rarely doesn’t work this way.
Audrey has some really great points! I have a hard time believing his marriage is miserable but he's such a great guy. Why isn't his marriage a reflection of what a great guy he is? If his marriage is indeed miserable, as a man it is his fault and what is he doing to fix it? Is he providing, protecting and cherishing his wife? In regard to Jenny, I do think maybe a way to look at it is that she can find those characteristics in someone else who isn't married. She didn't say she was attracted to him because of his looks, which you may not be able to find 'his looks' in another person, but since she described his characteristics, it gives her a guideline of what she would want in a potential partner. There are others who are good listeners, allow you to be authentic, seen, feel good about yourself, etc. As far as him 'marrying the wrong person,', I look at it as that was his decision and she needs to respect that decision regardless of how she feels about it.
Matthew- I bought your LOve life book and it is anything short of authentic, gut-punching, gut-realizing, gut-owning, and open-heart surgery for me! Just got out of a 12 year relationship (Im 37) and we still love each other but the elements that you discuss in the book is so powerful...that its helped me to process grief and loss but also be able to see glimmers of sunlight through it....this book is going to help a generation....keep your authenticity...so real and so pure...thanks Nats
I think the married person does though... I think it's a risk they're willing to take vs working with a therapist and fixing themselves. And they manipulate the person to create a grand image of themselves... And that's where what you state is 100% true for the person they choose.
In CO if you get caught cheating the spouse gets everything...so he is also not thinking he could get less time with his kid instead of just doing the right thing of divorcing if he is not happy. Thank you both for your wisdom and true steady outlooks on this-while I haven't been in this particular situation there are some nuances of prior dating someone that lived out of town that are similar. You said it beautifully, there's no risk or investment on his part which isn't a relationship nor are they being clear with their intentions with you.
Something they didn't touch on which I think is quite important is that even if he DID make her a priority and leave his wife then the woman writing in will forever be labelled as a home wrecker and that is incredibly hard to live with - it's a label I carry due to a relationship with a man who hid his marriage from me - I was the evil succubus that lured him away from a wife I didn't even know existed. Another point is the longer you stay in one of these kinds of "situation-ships" the harder it is to actually find someone that actually measures up afterwards because you've just exclusively had the best of someone and that doesn't happen in a fulltime relationship - so your perception is permanently skewed. It's so sad and happens so often, I have seen it many times in my line of work and it just breaks my heart every time that these women are literally having the best/kindest and most vulnerable parts of themselves used against them, it's ALWAYS kind people that tend to fall prey to two-timers because they see the best in people.
I just want to note that I think your point on these kinds of situationships making it hard to find someone who measures up since you've only seen the best of someone is such a good point. She was my first love and I don't really know what else to expect. The vulnerability and kindness I tried to give her and fed into her lies really only ended up hurting me. She ended up going back to him which I suppose in the context of this podcast is a good thing,...but it can't help but make me feel like the used tool. I'm sorry you had to go through what you had.
@@arthurlihar786 Thank you, I'm sorry you had to go through what you did too 🤗 it's never easy coming out of an unhealthy relationship, even when we know it's for the better it doesn't take away the fact that we're morning a reality we thought existed but didn't.
Matt, could you please do a dedicated episode on coworkers who have dated and broke up but are working in the same department or so? I would like to learn from different perspectives - either of them broke up with the other, avoidant behavior after break up, how to navigate awkwardness with someone who gives silent treatment, how to handle emotions while the one who broke up starts chilling with other people while the other person is hurting, etc.
What this situation is is a man who isn’t getting some need met with his wife and hasn’t communicated his needs (possibly doesn’t even know what they are), so instead of going to his wife and telling her his needs and giving her the opportunity to meet his needs, he cheats. He’s not a victim. He doesn’t love either of these ladies as much as he loves himself. It may not be malicious, but it is toxic.
And there’s all sorts of versions of this situationship Run Jenny, there’s better fish out there. And good on you to share your story. You’re worth more than that. Thank you for this podcast very informative Matthew and Audrey
I enjoyed listening to this conversation. All you said is in allignment with my core beliefs, except for one thing. I feel you portray the guy as all bad and Jenny as his victim. I think, when the woman is an adult and aware of his marriage, she is not a victim at all, rather she is equally probable to be good or bad as he is. Even though I perceive myself to be too valuable to be anyone`s second option, that is not the only reason for me not to get into a sexual relationship with someone who already has a wife or a girlfriend. There is also the responsibility to another human being, or “Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you.” I don`t think that cheaters are necessarily bad, but I do think that the probability of being good or bad is equal for the "taken" and the "single" person engageing in this relationship.
It’s ALWAYS the same story you hear about. The cheating married man always says that his wife is so terrible and acts like a victim. If that is really the case, why don’t you leave instead of cheating on your wife with another woman? Cheating is still cheating and is still bad at the end of the day, horrible partner or not. If he will cheat with you he will cheat on you!
It's not complicated. HE IS MARRIED. GET AWAY FROM IT. You'll never trust him or her if they leave whomever they are with for YOU, not to mention the damage you are doing to someone else.
Ironically an affair can prolong a marriage that may have otherwise broken up by making the situation that much more tolerable for the dissatisfied husband. Jenny deserves to be more than an emotional pressure valve. I think M’s advice should go further - even if the married man does leave his wife, it still isn’t safe to be explore the possibility of a real relationship until such time as he is divorced and has fully processed that divorce.
Big thank you to Jenny for her courage. Matthew I’m amazed at your wisdom. You and your beautiful wife look so cute together in your little white socks. Thank you both for such helpful advice.
And this is why saying young women are easy to manipulate are foolish. Anyone who wants to be swept off their feet is easy to manipulate. Why lie when the woman will lie to themselves?
Totally agree. My older sister, a widower and a 40+ year old woman, is in love with a married man. Predictably, the wife is “crazy” and “narcissistic”. Whether or not she is isn’t the issue. The real issue is, why would you be with someone who not only *chooses* to be with - and stay with - someone they think is so horrible, but also someone who gets into another relationship before ending things with the wife and airing out their problems and complaining to someone outside of the marriage? It’s usually not a case of age but maturity and attachment issues I think. In addition to feeling special and feeling like they’re better than the current partner
Fathers that get divorced have a right to see their children if he’s so miserable then he needs to do what he needs to do and that’s get out of the marriage not cheat, and make himself look worse.
they are working together - its a big dose of vasopressin bonding because of problem solving together or at least caring for the same company/general work outcome, not love
Enlightening and impactful!!! This podcast has been a revelation, offering wise guidance. The thoughtful and compassionate approach has made a profound impact, shedding light on a complex issue and providing a clear path forward. Thank you so much!
I experienced this type of relationship in my 20s as the other woman. The price I paid was a lifetime of super sense and reaction to spoken or written communication that is not ringing true, is deceptive, is not responding to a question or just an out and out lie. In other words it caused me to have trouble trusting my future husband and also affected relationships after my divorce. I think that is a very very big price and even though he left his family to be with me, I eventually saw him too clearly for the liar and uncaring man he was.
shouldn’t be a decisive topic at all. Someone who breaks their marriage vows will not make a good partner to “bet” your life on until they have done inner work on themselves and turned their back on their behavior.
Exactly, but instead of doing the work, they're choosing the lazy option of medicating themselves with sex outside their marriage to pump up their ego. And they're using someone at work because it's easy and convenient. A cheater always has a lot of inner issues they refuse to address in a healthy manner, i.e., therapy.
@@elenad.2959 I haven’t finished the whole podcast yet but i’m already annoyed with the logic I’ve heard and i’m annoyed with people’s naïveté in these situations. Maybe it’s because i’m a guy and have known a ton of scumbags so I can see through their behavior, but I personally know men who have gotten into these situations by playing the victim of an ogre of a wife when in all reality she was a good person. they didn’t think I was being a very good friend when I called them a piece of shit and told them they needed to tell their spouse before I did.
Thank you both for handling this with kindness, empathy, compassion and sensitivity and a huge pinch of common sense....well done to you both, best podcast I have listened to addressing this subject❤❤❤❤❤
If there's no future, let go immediately, no matter how difficult
Future isn’t important to everyone though
@@___melanie Then they r okay wasting their time
@@tjotjo6140right. Or it’s not even a waste if they are enjoying it and getting what they want
@@___melanie thats not the case in this situation though
@@___melanie, if people are casual and unaffected, great. If not, emotional hell awaits the person who's more attached.
"The mark of someone's character is what they do with their power." So strong.
I needed this exact episode. I'm recently divorced and agree that as difficult as the truth is, it WILL come out. Do the right thing, early and often. Life is too short. I told my now ex- husband that we just need to rip off the bandaid and get on with our own lives. Affairs are never good for anybody but there is another chapter for everyone. Everyone deserves respect and dignity.
True!
Ask, “Are you married?” If they are honest and say, “Yes,”…run, run, run. Absolutely never, ever, go for it, no matter how fabulous, charismatic, honest, rich, sincere, beautiful, ripped, attracting, charming like no other ever. Rule of life, 1.2.3., like real estate. Walk away and thank God for unanswered prayers.
Don't talk yourself to being "just the emotional one", Audrey. You are a sharp analyser.
I remember someone once said “a crush is a lack of information”. I feel like an infatuation is similar except worse.
People also love to dismiss love as infatuation. Once you felt "supernatural" love or Shakespearean love as I like to call it, you know it can happen at any time between any two people whether there's a "future" or not. In fact, if can happen between people who would not be good marriage partners, takes maturity to know this because that kind of love you're lucky to experience it at least once in your life.
She needs to leave this man unless he divorces and actually leaves. It's a workplace crush with flirting it's exciting but not worth loosing his marriage .
Divorce Lawyer On Signs Of A Doomed Relationship-James Sexton podcast🌞
Marriage And Severe Avoidant Attachers - Ken Reid podcast 🌞
Why You Choose The Wrong People-Ken Reid podcast 🌞
Never Forgive Infidelity Cheating-Sam Vaknin podcast 🌞
What You Need To Do To In Order To Recover Off The Back Of A Bad Breakup 🌞
Healing From A Breakup-Ken Reid podcast 🌞
Self Love To Self Healing -Sam Vaknin podcast ♥️
Take Back Your Life Own It! Sam Vaknin podcast ♥️
Such an intelligent, balanced, thoughtful, yet empathetic discussion on this subject
I have fallen into the trap of falling for a married man. I am 52 years & not married. Please believe me when I told you that he is not going to leave her for you.
Of course he's not! He's having his cake and eating it, too! He's getting the best of both worlds. As long as the wife doesn't find out what's going on, he's not going anywhere!
@@jrwheeler81 He'll eventually dump the mistress....
Normally yes but not always. I was that guy and ultimately did get the divorce and married the "mistress" and we have been married 15 years. To add, I have never stepped outside the marriage. Definitely not the norm but there are exceptions to the rule
@@shanef53 Why weren't the married ones that I knew ever like you? It sucks to be 52 with nobody.
Rarely do they leave. The cake and eat it too.
James Sexton has excellent educational podcasts
Never Forgive Infidelity Cheating-Sam Vaknin podcast
Married and attached men are kryptonite. Think of their wife or girlfriend. Players are also kryptonite. Do you want to be part of a harem?
I was in a very similar situation decades ago. It was incredible, crazy making, painful and I felt SO MUCH PAIN!
Fortunately I got out but it was not easy since we worked together and had to see each other every day. When I went on to date an AVAILABLE man my former “partner” began constantly criticizing my new man. Ridiculous.
I did end up leaving that job. I made a lot of sacrifices because of that. It was heartbreaking.
It is the only way to honor yourself and live in your values.
Thank you both for this episode. I am sure many snap judge these situations and do not understand how it can happen. Matthew - I appreciated the way you explained how it can happen so much easier than “dating/ looking” for love and a partner. It helps me feel less shame about even “letting” it happen!!
Many of these men, it’s about the fear of losing a lot financially
Remember this: If he/she cheated on their partner with you, they will eventually do it to you as well. It really speaks to their character, and a host of underlying problems that predispose them to lie and cheat. Problems that don’t magically disappear with you, even if it appears that way for a while. And there will always be looming mistrust and disrespect for each other (even if no one admits it) for engaging in an affair. The success rate of people who date the person they cheated with is about 5%
Agreed ❤
Isn't there a saying about 'you lose them how you got them'?
@@RaquellePhillips Exactly! 🎯
💯
Absolutely....I could never trust a cheater.. the fact that they cheat also makes them a liar..deep down inside you will.always wonder
I was once the wife who was cheated on. I had 2 small kids at home. Don't be the other woman. It won't work as soon as you become the main he will start looking for another one. Dont be naive and say "he will chamge for me," he wont. The stories he is telling you can be bunch of lies.
I’m sorry to hear that. I hope you’re OK today. When I was younger, I was approached by several married males, and I always turned them down. Because even though I was young, I had ethics and I said if I was married, I wouldn’t want my husband doing that to me.
Now that I’m older and a widow, I’m glad I never breached my personal policy
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏as soon as you become main, he’ll look for another one!!!! Very true👏👏👏👏👏
@@zohrehkhalesy6616 that's not necessarily true ladies.
And are you still the wife who gets cheated on?
I heard someone say once, “when a man makes his mistress his wife, there is a vacancy left open.”
Also remember, Jenny: He wasn't your type anyway, as you told us. He tricked you with intermittent reinforcement into finding him attractive at all!
Intermittent reinforcement is a real thibg
This is soooo true. It's actually a thing.
Ah, the crazy wife scenario. Not while they were dating, not when he decided to propose, not when they said I DO, not when they had sex and got pregnant. . . . Honestly, why do they always think that is a good excuse?
Yeah obviously the woman he shares all of life’s stresses with, including raising their children, will seem “crazier” than a woman he doesn’t share any responsibilities with. He has seen his wife on her worst days. He hasnt seen his mistress on her worst days.
@@etaritero23 excellent point.
@@Olivia-bl8ez excellent point
What about the scenario where they got pregnant by accident but decided to keep it/stay together/become a family...have had an off and on relationship? And don't share values/big life goals?
@@annapclarke1293 even if a man says he is married only for the children, your relationship can only continue in one of two ways.
1. he leaves his wife to be with you and breaks up his family, creating a broken home and chaos for the children. The children will always see you as the other woman that broke up their parents.
2. He keeps his family together. You continue being the side chick and never the wife.
Any woman in this position should ask herself: why do you think that’s the relationship you deserve? Why are you willing to put yourself into a relationship you’ll never be the main woman or it causes total chaos? Why don’t you think you deserve to be the main woman from the beginning, in a stable relationship that does not cause emotional turmoil for innocent children?
Also important to note, men have a tendency to lie to get women into bed. He says he is married only for the children. Does his wife know this? Does she agree? Are they openly seeing other people? If she does know, I’d still refer to the questions in the paragraph above. If she doesn’t know, that man is a liar. And it’s only a matter of time until he lies to you too. Both you and the wife deserve better.
*edited for clarity
Girl, blocca blocca blocca blocca. You are worth more than a married man that is cheating on his wife.
I needed to heat that message TT
I was last year in the same position. I let him go and said: “Once you are a free man i will be happy to hear from you and if I am free woman at that point of my life, i would love to go out on a real date with you”. We parted ways with mutual understanding ❤️❤❤
You’ll always be a free woman….
@@emilytaylor1001 but why would you want to hear from him if he is the type of man that will even for a second entertain women outside of his marriage? What makes you think that he wouldn’t do the same thing to you if you got married to him? A cheat is a cheat. They are opportunistic by nature and that doesn’t change if they have a “great” partner. You dodged a bullet for sure.
@@thecrazymuzician1 It is not only people who are evel by nature that happen to cheat. Cheating can happen to people with a conscience, who do it out of lack of mental tools to handle a sour relationship and understand what they want and need. Not every cheater is a serial cheater. If the person in Emily`s comment is simply stranded and not by nature evil, she is giving him the space to manage his relationship maturely and maybe reach out to her as a single person. That makes total sense.
Married and attached men are kryptonite. Think of their wife and girlfriend. Hand's off.
Players are also kryptonite.
Think about being part of a harem and juggling act.
Never Forgive Infidelity Cheating-Sam Vaknin podcast🌞
Divorce Lawyer On Signs Of A Doomed Relationship -James Sexton podcast 🌞
Why You Choose The Wrong People-Ken Reid podcast 🌞
What You Need To Do In Order To Recover Off The Back Of A Bad Breakup - Ken Reid podcast 🌞
Healing From A Breakup-Ken Reid podcast 🌞
Ken Reads Episode 20 They're Still Acting Like A Player podcast 🌞
Self Love To Self Healing -Sam Vaknin podcast ♥️
Take Back Your Life Own It! Sam Vaknin podcast ♥️.
Biology is psychology. Behavior is a language.
@@SherriFlemmingWhat should that mean that a person is a kryptonite? Who is Superman in this analogy?
He treats you well and is vulnerable with you because he’s not invested in you or married to you and will say anything to keep you around. Everything he tells you about his poor wife is a LIE.
Oh yes.. been there, covert narcissistic abuser..no excuse for cheating and absolutely no excuse for it. The expression once a cheater always a cheater is true. If he cheats with you he’ll cheat ON you. And he has no respect for you and owes you nothing.
TRUTH. Temporarily disenchanted with “the wife” and intrigued by YOU, he’s a consummate player, liar and cheater out to ensure his needs get met via empty promises, empty words, promises he knows he has no intention of fulfilling, ETC.
Yes. I been there, done there. Was so unbelievable naive believe what he said . My explanation for myself was that I never even thought those extremely great liars exist .They should have Oscar for that role .
Mistress told me that he never spoke bad about me so that made it worse for her to deal with. She told me what he was doing (with her) was not right and she felt bad for participating. Nevertheless she did not remove herself and stayed 8 years. A double life for sure. She told me how they pulled it off all those years.
Your wife is really good at this. So happy she's your co-host now.
🙂
People who fall for married men might be afraid of commitment. It’s safe to choose a chosen one. 🙏🏻
I think this is such a valid point!
They have no morals
Or simply be avoidant.
I think women who date/go after/seduce/ are attracted to committed men are avoiding rejection. They can tell themselves it is because he is in a relationship rather than take a risk with someone who isn't and might not want them. It's an easy way to gain BIG validation since he denies someone else for them and if he doesn't cheat with them then it's because he can't not because he wanted to
@@Nimmie111someone can have morals and values and not live up to them. That’s most people in these scenarios
Most powerful line for me was "Character is demonstrated by the choices one makes when they have power." -Oof, so good!
I always also like the line/statistic that 100% of divorces started with a lifelong commitment that can only be broken upon death. That in mind, something probably similar to the connection Jenny feels they have, he probably had with his wife to drive him to get married and have a child. I would always be suspicious that whatever happened between the courtship and now would happen again... once the reality of smelling your farts, the predictability of foreplay, or the routine/familiarity of dates/activities set in, will I be the one villainized and tossed aside? And if things evolved eventually to the point of marriage, I doubt I could be at the altar and hear "til death do us part" and not think "hm, heard that one before..."
Poor Jenny. I hope she find a new connection even better after leaving this guy. It's a bit sad that no one has treated her this good before and that being loved is scarce in her world and she feels this is her only opportunity. I'll be rooting for her, that being loved and treated with kindess, compassion and as a priority will become something she's very accustomed to and can have a buffet of loving choices to choose from down the road. Thanks Jenny, Matthew and Audrey for an amazing and insightful episode!
Thank you for the beautiful lines
Dear Audrey and Matthew,
The anxiety, grief, nerves and fear in such a situation are not worth it.
(P. S. The conversation with the grief expert is
incredibly comforting and
awesome. Thank you).
Women need to respect one another and hold each other up. If you meet a man who is either married or has a girlfriend just move on. You'll be saving yourself, and her, from a huge amount of pain.
Exactly
No sir. Women are not responsible for the actions of MEN. I know it hurts but being entitled to telling other women to choose your best interests is just too much.
Do you have the same standards when it comes to men or you just blame women?
I think some men are always going to cheat and there will always be someone to do so, that's why call girls exist.
There's something else. When a man wants to cheat on his wife, you're "special" only if you say yes. If you say no to him, he'll find someone else to have an affair with. Don't fall for "we were meant to be". He was supposed to think he was meant to be with his wife, the mother of his children.
I was in a similar situation. We were door-to-door neighbors (it was his “work home”). This podcast captured the truth and reality without shaming the AP. I also bought into his victimhood story when in actuality I now believe he is a narcissist or possibly sociopath. I ended up selling my unit (for other reasons too, but that was one of them). I couldn’t stay in that environment. That was one of the most destructive experiences of my life, it can cost years of recovery and rebuilding, and the guilt and shame fester since there is no real solution. I cannot state the importance of needing a safe place and people to be able to have this type of conversation and guidance - and also, to protect yourself from ever being in this situation. It is absolutely not worth it. Thank you so much to Matthew & Aubrey for beautifully navigating this difficult and important discussion.
I think delving more into topics like these - like pitfalls in marriage, monogamy, affairs etc would be a fantastic growth opportunity for Matt and Audrey’s podcast. ❤❤
Some of these married people who seek out singles are predators.
Some target a person who is insecure and buys into the competitive and scarcity mindsets when it comes to dating. This person essentially gets used as a "useful idiot" to get back at the ex, the current, or some other rival. They lovebomb/flatter this person while demonizing the target and this can turn into abuse by proxy if the side is gullible enough. The side is the one that gets charged for harassment, assault, etc. against the ex and the instigator's hands remain clean.
Yes.
I didn’t realise because we were the same age, but as soon as we hit 30, after 10 years together, he left me for an 18 year old foster kid.
It absolutely destroyed me and I was disgusted with myself for being part of it. Like I made him look like a suitable partner and that enabled him to prey on a foster kid and made it easy for him to convince her I was crazy and he was a victim - because I was furious.
yes, opportunists at work. You spend 5 days / 40 hours a week together, it is not as if he even has to go outside to find external partner. Do not mix business with pleasure.
After 6 years of marriage, I found out that my husband had been dating his colleague for around 2.5 years. Note, he never told me so; I found out!
I even spoke to that girl. She said to me she didn't know he was married and has a child at the beginning. Now she knows but she still thinks he has reasons to be unhappy. She adviced me that may be I should learn from him why he is unhappy. She literally had no idea about me. I couldn't believe he had painted such a picture to her.
I told her he claimed to be in love with me in the past and till that day I believed it to be true. I will be happy for you if at least he stays honest with you.
I thank God, I could see his reality because of you. I am out of his life. I left, never to look back again.
These men give your brain chronic trauma bond that affects you neurologically and I have got first hand experience and it's extremely physically painful , like an incurable disease
A married or separated person is unavailable in every way! Save yourself from the potential drama and trauma, cut it off and move on.
A big applause to both presenters for exposing the intentions of someone married choosing their ego and what's best for them over the other party's happiness, there is nothing healthy in relationships like that, it's a trap with severe consequences 😢
Run
1) He married her, as far as we know he didn’t have a gun to his head. He loved his wife enough at one point to think she was “the one”, enough to enter a binding legal contract. If he was wrong about her, he could be wrong about you. OR take comfort in the fact that you could be wrong about him.
2) If you give that ultimatum, and his wife does withhold his child. You, and only you, will get the blame for that. He will resent you for making him choose between his child and you. Be very careful if you see any signs of this.
I've been seeing a married man since January and we were definitely falling in love. However he just could not make the time and he was always up front that he was never leaving his marriage because of his son. The biggest issue when you are seeing someone who is married is they just do not have the time for you. I believe that people do fall out of love and I don't believe a sexless marriage is fair for anyone to be in. Obviously he needs to leave his marriage but I can't be the one to ask that. So I broke it off with him and I feel like that was the perfect decision for me.
I had a similar situation beside he was not married but in a relationship since 9 years with a little son. He was very ambivalent in his behaviour, very unsure about his own actions what lead us to an on/off affair (off-time were just a few days). He always came back but he never was sure about what he wanted. So I left. I couldn't handle the hot and cold behaviour anymore, it really broke me in the end.
@@Polly1589 I'm so sorry it broke you. I felt great about my decision to end it. I'm good with whatever happens and decided not to get attached to whether he decides to end his other relationship or not.
@veganbetti You’re not be honest with yourself. If he’s cheating on his wife, he has no integrity and he’s a coward. Cheating is a CHOICE. You choose to swallow his version of his marriage. How can you know the truth, without hearing his wife’s side of the story. Good that you left
They don't have time because they literally have a family!!!
A sexless marriage is the first LIE they will tell you because they want you to fall for it, and you did
The perfect decision would have been not to be a mistress....know your worth
I love how he shuts up the minute Audrey speaks. He totally respects her. ❤
What a fantastic podcast on such a difficult subject! Well done. 👏 I think so many people besides Jenny will benefit tremendously from such an intelligent, sensitive and encouraging discussion. You two are a wonderful pair! ❤
This podcast was so helpful. It was exactly my situation and now she's moved on and blamed me while she cheated on him with me and pursued me...a tragic lesson to learn but a worthwhile one
I did enjoy the conversation, though I must say, for once I find myself not agreeing with Matt and Audrey as much as usual. Situations like this one usually have a lot of shades of grey and rarely come down to "the cheater just has a bad character". When kids are involved, the fear of them being taken away often comes above any strong love that the 'cheater' might be feeling for someone else. It's not easy to just make a decision and respond to an ultimatum within a month from it happening.
One of my husband and I's great friends separated from his partner for a while and decided to go into a new relationship with a girl he absolutely adored. He has a heart of absolute gold, but in the end he could give all of himself to this new relationship because the fear of losing his daughter was bigger than anything else. Sometimes people just need to be a bit more understanding of someone's complicated circumstances, especially where they claim there's big love. Not everyone is a liar and a bad cheat.
Is this guy still with the new girl? Also, they don't say the guy in this relationship can't take time away from it, deal with his current marriage and then come back later. The writer here needs to walk away and let him do what he needs to do. The cheater here, if he does not do that, does have "bad character". Also, "my husband and I's" is not correct. Take away "my husband" and see how it sounds - which is "one of I's great friends". Instead, it should be "one of my and my husband's great friends".
@@kimberlyf4888 no, he's not with her anymore unfortunately, but I brought it up because the conversations they were having before it ended were similar to the ones the writer mentions in Matt's video. Despite the fact that he's been separated from his wife for a month he just wasn't able to give the new girl as much of his time, or to introduce her into his daughter's life because of fear that his ex-partner would take the child away from him. So when his gf wanted more commitment and to just have an 100% normal relationship where she would just act like his daughter's step mum straightaway, he just couldn't give her that. It was too soon and too complicated for him to risk everything because she wanted things to happen in her 'normal' ways straightaway.
I'm not saying his way was right or that she had high demands or anything like that. They both, in my eyes, had reasonable arguments in the dynamic, which is why my comment to Matt's video was more like "there's A LOT MORE GREY" in situations like this. I certainly don't think in the video we all watched, they have enough proof from the email to say the guy has a bad character, is not right for her etc.
@@alexandraneag1229I see what you mean, but maybe they were pressed for time on the podcast and only hit the main points. Plus Matt had to give advice right away.
@@al5068 yes! I completely see your point, it could have been that x
Legally she can't NOT let him see his daughter
Yes. A cheater is always a cheater. Someone who lies to someone once for you, will also lie to you.
Matthew you made such a a good point about the husband convincing himself and believing his own stories about the terribie marriage to try to justify the affair. The same thing happened to me last year, my ex husband (28 years’together) had an affair and after I found out he decided to leave our family and 2 teenage kids to be with this woman. He tried to convince so many people that he was in a toxic marriage, to justify his actions. My 20 year old son hasn’t spoken to him since he left. All so sad for the whole family and so many relationships fractured because of this. He has lost everything now and not even sure if he’s still with that woman he left us for…..
Been there,he was separated from wife and we loved each other dearly…till he thought about the divorce and financial implications and went back.Left broken hearted,he eventually left marriage but got a different woman. 1:07
I wish i stumbbled on this video few months ago. I am now in the grieving stage. For little context, my married sp and I, are no longer in communication. This situation seriously affected me. I was sure that he had feelings for me (due to his actions) although he had never claimed it.
I think a married man can leave his wife but it is not always the case.
Some of them love the comfort the other one brings to them. Moreover, if they share the same accomodation, proprieties, children : chances are low. If he does not officially commit to you, leave him, grieve, cry, bring the best to your life and move on. I know, it is not easy but some months are better to be sacrified than years.
If he officially commits to you when he’s married, still run. My marriage is ending due to him having an affair. It seems so obvious from my point of view, my husband was just attracted to all the brain chemicals released during the early stages of a relationship. As those chemicals fade, that’s when real love begins. That’s when the deep, loyal love begins. My husband cheated because as soon as life got a little stressful, he wanted to chase those new love chemicals instead of dealing with the problems head on. I now know he has done the same in previous relationships. He will continue to do the same with every woman he will be with. Good luck to the next girl that’s all I gotta say.
They aren't yours.. they are already with someone 😂
To Matthews point about doing the right thing under duress being forced to is different than “Grace under pressure, which is a true test of character “ I always say.
Thank you so much for addressing this subject. I am in a similar situation for the last 15 months and it's absolutely heart breaking. No one can win. He told me he was leaving and I should have waited for that to happen as now he has changed his mind and doesn't think he can leave. I'm devastated and feeling very trapped in this awful situation.
Have respect for other women
@heatjub1317 I’d like to offer you a piece of advice from a wife’s perspective, if you don’t mind. Unless their home life is absolutely treacherous, the likelihood of him leaving his wife is probably close to null. I would also bet you weren’t the only one he’s cheated with. If his wife is smart, she may already know who you are, she just hasn’t said anything and she’s gathering the information/evidence she needs when she finally decides to divorce him. At least that’s what I would do.😉 I don’t know where you’re located but some states in the US allow the wife to sue the mistress for alienation of affection/emotional distress if the mistress got involved with the husband knowing he was married. I’m sure you’re a very nice person and you deserve better. Good luck to you.😊
Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it.@@pattyc655
@@pattyc655 girl you're pathetic. Why all the blame is on women? Sue your man.
I'm just laughing how you put so much hate into a woman that is not married to you. If you get cheated on and keep your husband, you're the clown here
@@nbabombshell why is her obligation? Not even her husband respects her
People cannot help feelings, especially affection and love. What they can help is the choices they make when they deal with their feelings. An adult considers the feelings of others and they act accordingly. You still go in the direction that makes you happy, but you do it with love and honesty. Getting involved with a married person romantically is getting involved with someone who is currently betraying his own commitment to someone. He is not a stand up guy at this point in his life. He is incapable of being any more loyal to her than his wife until he does the inner work. Knowing what you really want and then honestly discussing it with your spouse and, if it comes to that, breaking up as kindly, supportively and lovingly as possible is the best that anyone can do and he will need to do that in order to grow enough to be someone who can be loyal in the future. Cheating is wrong, not because they own you. It's wrong because you are not being honest (with yourself or them) or loyal.
Such a powerful and necessary deconstruction of a pitfall on the journey towards love. Thank you
Oh Matthew, so wish ur my counsellor! I’m going thru an extremely rough time! Even my therapist is like, “hell, you have had a lot going on the last few years! A brother who killed himself, a lost job at 62, making me move back home after 25 years of living away, and recently involved with married man, something I’d never dreamed of! But I was in a place, vulnerable, alone, etc and really thought they weren’t together. With it all, I almost took my life, just feeling like, what is wrong with me?”… am so f’ing empty! Thank u for making things clear!
So sorry. Tim heals all wounds. Volunteer if u can. Get with church folks. Organized religion helps.
:( how awful. im deeply sorry you are going through so much. hang in there, i know what it's like to feel that low and eventually see the light again. We want you here
Audrey is a very wise woman and Matthew and her make a perfect respectful team with each other!! May you have a lifetime of love!💕
Men can delay marriage or forego it altogether. They don't need to be married to be a father or to have a woman live with them. So when a man gets married, he is making a conscious decision to set someone apart as belonging to him, and he wants the law of the land to know it. It's a huge sign of respect, and frankly society doesn't even demand it of him. Then we have the child. How young is she? Five? Three? Let's say she's five. Five years ago his wife was good enough to be the mother of his child, the person he wanted to procreate with. What man would have a child with a woman he knew to be terrible? If she were so bad, the last thing he'd do is have a kid with her and be stuck with her the rest of his life, even if they got divorced.
I remember a quote "When you marry your mistress, you create an open position." If this person can treat their spouse so poorly, the person they announced to the world they wanted to be legally bound to, he will treat the other woman 10x worse. And if you manage to get the guy, the second you have needs or problems, he'll start looking around for someone 'more fun'. However he's treating his wife is how he treats his wife. Whoever fills the Wife position will be treated that way.
Excellent points. So well said.
I agree... People repeat patterns, and typically treat every partner the same
I'm a therapist and I can't tell you the amount of courage it takes for people to speak and share things that they feel shameful of. It's amazing.
I absolutely loved how you looked at the problem. How you explained the process of getting into it almost unconsciously. At first I wanted to say “ girl it is your fault, you should have known better. And then I saw the other side of it. Love… people do crazy things. I hope Jenny will listen carefully to the advice and have enough strength to get out from it as soon as possible. There is a beautiful person that will really appreciate you Jenny ❤
He will not leave his wife .. if he cheated With you he will cheat On you.
Perfectly worded! I'm going to quote this :)
Exactly. Once a cheater, always a cheater! The cycle is not going to stop simply because he leaves his wife for you! He'll just eventually find a new mistress and start the same BS all over again!
Matthew and Audrey, thank you for always standing up for honesty and integrity. You shared great insights. Love this podcast. Matthew, your level of empathy is out of this world.
This was very compassionate advice while still being firm.
I love how Matthew and Audrey talk about any subject, make a disection, and explain it from many angles. I also appreciates that you don't judge in a moral way, you just explain how do you see things, so that the audience can notice something they have missed.
I don’t get it. If the hottest man in the world started flirting with me, and I found out he was married, he is no longer hot to me. He is disgusting. Loyalty is sexy. Men that prioritize their family are sexy.
🎯🎯🎯
Loyalty is also beautiful. I enjoy (immensely) seeing dads of young children fully engaging with their wives and kids. It’s so fun to watch their joy.
And honesty is sexy!
Probably it has never happened to you. I know sounds illogical but in the game of love many things are like that. Let's not judge from prejudice and actually be open to learning.
If you don't get it, it has never happened to you, why are you losing your time here contributing nothing but judgement? For real
@@marte1376why are you wasting time responding to a comment you obviously do not align with?
What I love about Matt being married now and having Audrey on his show is that we also have a female perspective on the issues that are discussed. She is so smart insightful.
Women need to have more respect for themselves. Everyone experiences the feeling of flattery/ego boost when they receive attention from somebody. If you find out the person paying you the attention is married or in a relationship, you've got to ask yourself about the character/morals of this person. Is this REALLY the type of person YOU want to be spending time with? Why would you waste your emotional time with such a person?
Thank you for the insight. Very informative episode.
I truly believe in character, integrity and discipline. Empathy is a big one too. We as people must know right from wrong no matter how much we crave being loved.
Separate work from private life and to always look at peoples actions above their words.
Another thing is if someone speaks ill of others it is a bad sign of that persons maturity, so be aware.
Hear both sides before you choose to think highly of that person. You might be surprised about what the other side has to say.
Be on your guard and don’t let people take advantage of your good heart. Also take peoples words with a grain of salt, because of course they want to come off good in front of you.
This is such a difficult situation to be in, but it could happen to anyone... and youre certainly not a bad person at all. i do hope things turn out right .... wishing this person Jenny all the very best .
OH MY GOD THIS IS SO RELATABLE!!! Insane! I wish I had this knowledge bloody six years ago!!! Exactly this kind of relationship with exactly this kind of person with COMPLETE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND EMPATHY costed me six years of life, my best friend, my job at the time and quite a good relationship
Insane
Wow, finished the whole thing! Amazing! Seeing married man last three years, no kids involved, but hell! This is crazy
Nope. Let him go, and find out why you fell for someone taken, because there’s likely a reason it didn’t immediately turn you off that he was willing to cheat. You can heal and find someone worthwhile ❤
Yes, there she did also her part. If she takes her part of the responsibility, she goes out of the victim-role.
I’ve been in both sides but I didn’t know he had somebody. I found out 5 months into the relationship that he had a double life. He left her for me (more like she left him)… n I was dumb enough to continue w him after finding out. He did the same thing to me later on. Never again. I wasted years of my life with that person. I was so miserable. Lots of emotional abuse. Even today I am dealing with the trauma from those years. If you find yourself in this situation run asap.
41:55 not only is he not exercising empathy, he is breaking his vow of fidelity that he made at their marriage. He is showing himself to be certainly not a man of his word. What then, does either woman get except lies.
Walk away. Even if he thinks you are the one and he is sincere of his feelings for you you are putting your life on hold for someone you do not truly know. Maybe when he cleans up his life and is divorced for a time you can try again. He will need to court you properly and make the effort to have a true relationship. But don’t forget you are the rebound either way.
High value men and women don’t go after people who are married. People should respect the sanctity of marriage and people’s families.
I cleary attract lots of married men since I m single, sexy ,depressed & vulnerable.
Go and Ask why men are such Predators. I dis not ask for this. ( I also attract single men).
Married people made the vows they should stay loyal. Don’t you fucking make it about other people! That sounds like such an idiotic statement
Married people should respect their own marriage first. Your comment is vomit inducing🤮
Two things come to mind without bias.
If he can put that much energy into her, he can put that energy into his wife and child. That relationship deserves his priority over Jenny.
If he does it with you, he’ll do it to you. This rarely doesn’t work this way.
Audrey has some really great points! I have a hard time believing his marriage is miserable but he's such a great guy. Why isn't his marriage a reflection of what a great guy he is? If his marriage is indeed miserable, as a man it is his fault and what is he doing to fix it? Is he providing, protecting and cherishing his wife? In regard to Jenny, I do think maybe a way to look at it is that she can find those characteristics in someone else who isn't married. She didn't say she was attracted to him because of his looks, which you may not be able to find 'his looks' in another person, but since she described his characteristics, it gives her a guideline of what she would want in a potential partner. There are others who are good listeners, allow you to be authentic, seen, feel good about yourself, etc.
As far as him 'marrying the wrong person,', I look at it as that was his decision and she needs to respect that decision regardless of how she feels about it.
Matthew- I bought your LOve life book and it is anything short of authentic, gut-punching, gut-realizing, gut-owning, and open-heart surgery for me! Just got out of a 12 year relationship (Im 37) and we still love each other but the elements that you discuss in the book is so powerful...that its helped me to process grief and loss but also be able to see glimmers of sunlight through it....this book is going to help a generation....keep your authenticity...so real and so pure...thanks Nats
No one ever goes willingly onto these things it’s a total headfuck and nightmare for all
I think the married person does though... I think it's a risk they're willing to take vs working with a therapist and fixing themselves. And they manipulate the person to create a grand image of themselves... And that's where what you state is 100% true for the person they choose.
In CO if you get caught cheating the spouse gets everything...so he is also not thinking he could get less time with his kid instead of just doing the right thing of divorcing if he is not happy.
Thank you both for your wisdom and true steady outlooks on this-while I haven't been in this particular situation there are some nuances of prior dating someone that lived out of town that are similar. You said it beautifully, there's no risk or investment on his part which isn't a relationship nor are they being clear with their intentions with you.
What my late mother said to me about being with a married man, "Now Daughter, that is the road to nowhere!"
Something they didn't touch on which I think is quite important is that even if he DID make her a priority and leave his wife then the woman writing in will forever be labelled as a home wrecker and that is incredibly hard to live with - it's a label I carry due to a relationship with a man who hid his marriage from me - I was the evil succubus that lured him away from a wife I didn't even know existed.
Another point is the longer you stay in one of these kinds of "situation-ships" the harder it is to actually find someone that actually measures up afterwards because you've just exclusively had the best of someone and that doesn't happen in a fulltime relationship - so your perception is permanently skewed.
It's so sad and happens so often, I have seen it many times in my line of work and it just breaks my heart every time that these women are literally having the best/kindest and most vulnerable parts of themselves used against them, it's ALWAYS kind people that tend to fall prey to two-timers because they see the best in people.
I just want to note that I think your point on these kinds of situationships making it hard to find someone who measures up since you've only seen the best of someone is such a good point. She was my first love and I don't really know what else to expect. The vulnerability and kindness I tried to give her and fed into her lies really only ended up hurting me. She ended up going back to him which I suppose in the context of this podcast is a good thing,...but it can't help but make me feel like the used tool. I'm sorry you had to go through what you had.
@@arthurlihar786 Thank you, I'm sorry you had to go through what you did too 🤗 it's never easy coming out of an unhealthy relationship, even when we know it's for the better it doesn't take away the fact that we're morning a reality we thought existed but didn't.
Just remember. The foundation of a new relationship should not be laid upon the heartbreak of someone else.
Matt, could you please do a dedicated episode on coworkers who have dated and broke up but are working in the same department or so? I would like to learn from different perspectives - either of them broke up with the other, avoidant behavior after break up, how to navigate awkwardness with someone who gives silent treatment, how to handle emotions while the one who broke up starts chilling with other people while the other person is hurting, etc.
What this situation is is a man who isn’t getting some need met with his wife and hasn’t communicated his needs (possibly doesn’t even know what they are), so instead of going to his wife and telling her his needs and giving her the opportunity to meet his needs, he cheats. He’s not a victim. He doesn’t love either of these ladies as much as he loves himself. It may not be malicious, but it is toxic.
And there’s all sorts of versions of this situationship
Run Jenny, there’s better fish out there. And good on you to share your story. You’re worth more than that.
Thank you for this podcast very informative Matthew and Audrey
Just because he married the wrong person doesn’t make it ok to have affairs. A stand up guy goes through the pain of divorce first.
He has all the POWER, you do not …. think about that.
Spot on. Regardless of how he couches it, HE calls the shots.
I enjoyed listening to this conversation. All you said is in allignment with my core beliefs, except for one thing. I feel you portray the guy as all bad and Jenny as his victim. I think, when the woman is an adult and aware of his marriage, she is not a victim at all, rather she is equally probable to be good or bad as he is.
Even though I perceive myself to be too valuable to be anyone`s second option, that is not the only reason for me not to get into a sexual relationship with someone who already has a wife or a girlfriend. There is also the responsibility to another human being, or “Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you.” I don`t think that cheaters are necessarily bad, but I do think that the probability of being good or bad is equal for the "taken" and the "single" person engageing in this relationship.
It’s ALWAYS the same story you hear about. The cheating married man always says that his wife is so terrible and acts like a victim. If that is really the case, why don’t you leave instead of cheating on your wife with another woman? Cheating is still cheating and is still bad at the end of the day, horrible partner or not. If he will cheat with you he will cheat on you!
It's not complicated. HE IS MARRIED. GET AWAY FROM IT. You'll never trust him or her if they leave whomever they are with for YOU, not to mention the damage you are doing to someone else.
Exactly !!!!! I can relate. The longer the situation goes on the harder it's to recover and restore
Ironically an affair can prolong a marriage that may have otherwise broken up by making the situation that much more tolerable for the dissatisfied husband. Jenny deserves to be more than an emotional pressure valve.
I think M’s advice should go further - even if the married man does leave his wife, it still isn’t safe to be explore the possibility of a real relationship until such time as he is divorced and has fully processed that divorce.
Once cheat always cheat
100%. A mistress can provide the missing 20% in his marriage. So he’s having his cake and eating it. Sounds great for him!
Big thank you to Jenny for her courage. Matthew I’m amazed at your wisdom. You and your beautiful wife look so cute together in your little white socks. Thank you both for such helpful advice.
And this is why saying young women are easy to manipulate are foolish. Anyone who wants to be swept off their feet is easy to manipulate. Why lie when the woman will lie to themselves?
Totally agree. My older sister, a widower and a 40+ year old woman, is in love with a married man. Predictably, the wife is “crazy” and “narcissistic”. Whether or not she is isn’t the issue. The real issue is, why would you be with someone who not only *chooses* to be with - and stay with - someone they think is so horrible, but also someone who gets into another relationship before ending things with the wife and airing out their problems and complaining to someone outside of the marriage? It’s usually not a case of age but maturity and attachment issues I think. In addition to feeling special and feeling like they’re better than the current partner
I agree that’s a logical fallacy.
You people solved a mystery of my life also, you are incredible and Real Coaches.. God bless u both
Fathers that get divorced have a right to see their children if he’s so miserable then he needs to do what he needs to do and that’s get out of the marriage not cheat, and make himself look worse.
Thank you for doing this Mathew and Audrey ❤
looking forward to the episode
Good video, bro. I agree with you in many ways. I also have a video on this topic.
they are working together - its a big dose of vasopressin bonding because of problem solving together or at least caring for the same company/general work outcome, not love
That can lead to love though or just a very strong sexual attraction that no one can't stop. Just because of the point you made.
Divine help only works in such situations
Great explanation given by Matthew and the partner
My goodness this was powerful . Thank you Matthew and Audrey . Your podcasts are amazing always xx
Enlightening and impactful!!!
This podcast has been a revelation, offering wise guidance. The thoughtful and compassionate approach has made a profound impact, shedding light on a complex issue and providing a clear path forward. Thank you so much!
Such a good convo, love hearing the back and forth
"I can't get rejected by someone who isn't available to begin with" wowwww
I experienced this type of relationship in my 20s as the other woman.
The price I paid was a lifetime of super sense and reaction to spoken or written communication that is not ringing true, is deceptive, is not responding to a question or just an out and out lie. In other words it caused me to have trouble trusting my future husband and also affected relationships after my divorce.
I think that is a very very big price and even though he left his family to be with me, I eventually saw him too clearly for the liar and uncaring man he was.
Very insightful. Helpful for anyone in a relationship whether an affair or not!
shouldn’t be a decisive topic at all. Someone who breaks their marriage vows will not make a good partner to “bet” your life on until they have done inner work on themselves and turned their back on their behavior.
Exactly, but instead of doing the work, they're choosing the lazy option of medicating themselves with sex outside their marriage to pump up their ego. And they're using someone at work because it's easy and convenient. A cheater always has a lot of inner issues they refuse to address in a healthy manner, i.e., therapy.
@@elenad.2959 I haven’t finished the whole podcast yet but i’m already annoyed with the logic I’ve heard and i’m annoyed with people’s naïveté in these situations. Maybe it’s because i’m a guy and have known a ton of scumbags so I can see through their behavior, but I personally know men who have gotten into these situations by playing the victim of an ogre of a wife when in all reality she was a good person. they didn’t think I was being a very good friend when I called them a piece of shit and told them they needed to tell their spouse before I did.
nothing is perfect, until he divorces you are not more than entertaining for him
work on your selfsteem girl! 💪🏽
Thank you both for handling this with kindness, empathy, compassion and sensitivity and a huge pinch of common sense....well done to you both, best podcast I have listened to addressing this subject❤❤❤❤❤
It’s not love. There’s no mutual respect.