Just subscribed! Ihave owned a 65 Mustang Fastback since 1988 while in high school. 351w AFR heads, Global West strut suspension. I have to get it finished. Got disabled, Addison's Disease and a couple other complicated. Wish you lived closer. I'm in Southern California. Thanks for sharing your valuable information.
I found this channel by chance. You have answered every question I’ve had about my 66 mustang 289, and have helped me methodically diagnose and repair my cooling issues. You’re a humble, respectable and knowledgeable guy and that’s hard to find. Great videos brother!
The R888R is just a test fit tire, so it doesn’t matter on that one. The RA1s will be road force balanced when I install them. I was just making sure I had adequate clearance, and exceeded my own expectations.
Incredible video. Learned tons! Going through the suspension on my 65 now and the parts mentioned and philosophy behind them are great. Look forward to binging your content 😊
Thanks! I’ve been very busy this year, bought a newer home which includes a much larger GT350 Garage 2.0. Remodeled and sold my old home, and we’ve had some major family related events that demanded my full presence. The new garage is almost set up, and I’ll be back to making content in a few short weeks.
@@TheGT350Garage congrats! What state do you live in? I'd love a big enough garage one day to spread all the projects but I'm working out of a smaller 2 car garage, lucky enough to have that even here in California.
Hell yeah brother! This is going to be a sweet ride! I totally agree with your "be honest with yourself" motto with the car build ups. Really helped out with my decision making with my 2001 New Edge Cobra.
The 1.5” UCA drop is really helping with the camber gain! I did the typical 1” drop and I don’t see more than 3.5° or so with my current SoT arms. Was great to see someone measure the difference that extra drop made! Keep up the great content!
The SoT stuff is very nice, and the way Shaun builds the Arning drop into the upper A-arm shaft is slick, but it was the wrong look for me. My alignment is very aggressive, and so is my setup, for so much camber gain. By getting the arm close to parallel to the ground at ride height using the drop spindle and longer spring, I can run less camber initially and throughout the suspension travel I gain negative camber in both compression and extension. Like I said in the video a lot of effort went into this setup.
@@TheGT350Garage the effort shows! Have you measured how caster is contributing even more camber gain when the wheels are turned? I think the SoT dropped cross shaft is also at 1" so I got a standard cross-shaft so I can drill my towers to be lower instead, this video helped seal the deal! I have a 67, but I plan to also offset the holes 1/8" rearward (as was done with the 65-66 drop) to introduce positive caster that way. Hoping it will only take minimal tweaks to the UCA mounting points and strut rod to arrive at +5 caster, which is my target as well.
@jerrybates7490 keep in mind, my arms have caster built into the shafts, and I have a 1/8” shim on the front of the shaft to further add caster. That’s another thing you can tweak to gain more caster, I can put up to 3/8” of shim on the front bolt, with that I was well over 7° positive caster.
Dude, I only clicked on yer vid, to checkout yer wheel/tire size combo... What an unintended freaking educational foray into early Ford racing front suspension theory!!! I am doing a 65 FB GT350 clone, as well, not on the road yet. 1" Arning drop, Roller perches, 620 standard springs, I saw conflicting data on ball joint bind, so I modified my upper standard arms, with the ball joint wedge kit, was gonna use my, older though new stock lower arms, I also installed the Street&T Lower Camber kit, I also reinforced my lower control arm mounting brackets, with 1/8" steel plates, was trying the low pressure KYB's for a change....Did the Borgeson power box and ididit column, and I'm looking forward to seeing how different, it feels, to to 64 coupe, w/stock everything, w/drag link p/s and 15" old school Torque Thrusts... What do ya think 🤔?
It sounds like you have a good starting point. The 1” Shelby/Arning drop produces a less drastic camber curve than I’m running, but still corrects the flawed factory geometry. So from ride height to full compression you’ll see 3° to 3.5° of camber gain and you’ll go slightly positive as the car unloads the suspension. The wedges are absolutely fine with the 1” arm relocation by the way. “620” springs are fine, they’re about 540lbs/in rate and that’s healthy for a light car, my spring rate initially is almost identical to a 620, but once ai get past the initial rate my Eibachs jump up to the 700lb/in zone which is monstrous comparatively. I’m running 195lb rear leafs as well, so it will ride like a go kart. Your KYBs will be the challenge; they aren’t valved correctly for that spring rate, so the car may feel bouncy or porpoise at times. I like the KYB Gas-A-Just high pressure gas shocks with the 620 springs, but I also just spent a bunch of seat time in a car with Bilsteins from Opentracker and that valving is perfection for a road car.
Walter, this is great - and quite timely as I literally just came in from doing a driveway alignment on my '65 fastback. Can you please give more details on how to correctly adjust the Baer Tracker kit? I have one, but I don't really understand how to dial it in for maximum gain. I'm running an overall 1.5" drop from stock height but I'd still like to keep the (relatively minimal) bump steer reigned in. Cheers from Canada!
Nice video. I have a 66 hardtop and also went with John’s strut rods, Global Western upper and lower arms with their Arning drop specs, NOS 65-66 big pin factory spindles (difficult to find), bearing spring perches, Bilstein shocks, John’s roller idler, and a softer spring than you are running, and factory power steering with a larger pulley on the pump. The car is still a project, but I hope to have it on the road next year and look forward to seeing how it handles. I expect stiffer than stock ride. I haven’t decided on wheels but am leaning toward 16x7; I wish tire selection was better on the 15” as I really like the 15” Shelby style wheel. The 17” wheels are just too big IMO but to each their own. I also went with the Kelsey Hays stock front disc with upgraded pads - keeping stock rear drums On the strut rods, I cut the stops off the rod and used the factory steering stops; that just seemed a little more original to me. I look forward to seeing how you like the changes.
If you go Torque Thrust II 16x8 4.879 backspace, you can always space the wheel out for a little extra clearance on the inner side of the wheel and tire.
I’m glad to see you posted again! I always enjoy your content and the detailed thoughts that go along with the work. I’ve got a question for you - I’ve got a 65 coupe that’s built specifically to be a driver. It gets me to work and back with a smile on my face. No car I’d rather own or drive. It’s got the standard Arning drop and coil overs for the front, new springs and shocks in the rear. 225 60R15s. Handles great for what I do with it. BUT the one thing that’s annoying is the rear jumping sideways when I go over a harsh bump. The front takes it just fine, but the rear likes to twerk. I understand that’s standard fare for straight axels in a light car, but I’d like to minimize it if possible. I’ve seen some folks recommend a panhard bar/rod to help mitigate this. Do you have any experience/opinion? I’m looking forward to seeing your beast on the road!
I’ll be running a 5-leaf with reverse eye spring with Global West Del-A-Lum shackles and bushings. Stops the side step without a panhard or watts link.
Would you mind sharing again the wheel offset and width specifications you were able to go with for your 16" wheels with this specific suspension setup? I have a 1965 2+2 that I'm gathering information for.
Calipers are reproductions of the originals, available from a number of sources. Pads are EBC Red Stuff. The rotors are Powerstop. The brake hoses are Russell. Make sure you order ‘65-66 calipers and a ‘65-66 Hose kit, or ‘67 Calipers and a ‘67 Hose kit. The front brake hose connection are different sizes between the changeover so even though all the parts will look identical the hoses and calipers have to be for the same year.
When you say your set up would be uncomfortable for street driving, are you referring to primarily the spring rate and shock set up, or are you also referring to alignment specs?
Spring rates are part of it, the shocks will dial out most of the harshness. The caster will make low speed maneuvers challenging with manual steering. So city driving will take a lot of effort, highway driving will be pretty firm.
Not for a stock type suspension like I’m using. If you want power steering the 14:1 Borgeson conversion would be the best option, a stock steering system is perfectly safe and adequate for a manual steering car. I’ve been working with a combination in California using the AJE Colt 65 suspension and we drove it for Hot Rod Power Tour West in December, it’s an entirely different experience from a stock suspension car, it actually feels more like driving a Fox Body. To me it changes the character of the car too much, but there are advantages like removing the spring towers, where it gets problematic is for guys who don’t have the means or knowledge to do their own alignment, shops do t seem to know how to handle cars like that, so a basic alignment can be an expensive and trying experience.
Great video! I am currently selecting suspension for my ‘66 GT350 clone through Open Tracker. I have landed on all the same stuff barring the drop spindles and Vikings. I had not considered the Baer bump steer kit. I find it odd that people regularly specify toe IN for these cars and have yet to understand the reason. I was planning on running 0 toe or 1/16 toe out. Should I consider the bump steer kit? Also do you mind sharing what sway bar end link you have? My Scott Drake poly links are far too long. Thanks!
Toe in on any car helps with wander and darting on uneven surfaces. It also helps mask a lack of caster. I actually ordered the Vikings and spindles in a secondary order when I decided to push the combination to the limit. If your links are too long, just shorten the tubes and use shorter bolts, mine are from a company that is long gone, but you can order any number of lengths from Energy Suspension or Prothane if you want “kits”.
@@TheGT350Garage thank you for the advice. Do you expect your car to wander with the toe set out like you mentioned in the video or will this be mitigated by running the 6+ degrees of positive caster? Look forward to more of your content.
@porschenut9 it will probably chase grooved concrete but be fine on asphalt. Toe is fortunately very easy to change, so if I find it annoying on the road, I can easily switch between a road and track setting. Perks of having over 35 years of experience include being able to do these things without really having to think much about them.
Excellent video. Running TTDs 16x8 @ the front with new stock spindle and yoko 225 50 16 without any clearance issue but 245 did rub a bit when turning. So I wish I had known the spindle would have made a difference to run a square tire set up. Except for my Ridetech Street Grip dual rate coils (absolutely love em btw) I have all new front suspension components from CJ but I have a slight persisting wobble starting at 55MPH + that feels and look like I have parkinson despite installing new wheels and tires and having everything tighten up properly. This isn’t an issue at low speed or when braking and there’s no noticeable funny noise coming from the front end. I didn’t do an alignment since I replaced everything but the car drives really straight regardless. So any thought as to what I should be troubleshooting next aside from tearing everything apart and rebuilding my front suspension?
Could be the tires, some tread patterns chase the road more than others. Could be a steering or suspension component that’s misbehaving, but most likely it’s the alignment.
You can get a simple bubble gauge off Amazon. I have an over the hub Blue Point (Snap-On) that needs to be repaired, one of my employees must have dropped it years ago, I hadn’t looked at it until just before this video and discovered one of the bubble tubes had leaked.
@@TheGT350Garage Maybe put the measuring tool between the studs? Will this be straiter then the outer of the disc? On Amazon you have clamp that clamp on the wheels bit will this be 100 percent straight? I don't know . For hobby cars maybe it will be enough
-.5° to -.75° with the 1” Arning drop will make a world of difference. Manual steering you still want 3.5-4.5° positive caster. And 1/16” to 1/8” toe in.
The SPC arms and ViKing coil overs should be a really nice setup. If you have a 65-66 you’ll want to move the camber adjustment to the lower arm and be sure to use an adjustable strut rod. Then as long as the car is square you should be able to use no shims on the rear bolt for the UCA shaft and install 1/8” to 1/4” of shim on the forward stud to build in additional caster. The camber conversion and strut rods from Opentracker are about $325-350 these days, and completely worth every penny if you do t have adjustability at those points.
@@TheGT350Garage thank you for the advise. This video was a great explanation/learning lesson. I’m now going to order the camber kit. The SPC arms came with adjustable strut rods. The questions now is should I get the roller lower arms too?
@MrJoea11 if you want to maximize caster with an adjustable strut rod, the rubber bushing in the lower arms will take a beating. If your arms are in good shape, lower mileage, you can get the parts from Opentracker and convert them.
Just subscribed! Ihave owned a 65 Mustang Fastback since 1988 while in high school. 351w AFR heads, Global West strut suspension. I have to get it finished. Got disabled, Addison's Disease and a couple other complicated. Wish you lived closer. I'm in Southern California.
Thanks for sharing your valuable information.
The camber change on compression was more than I expected - nice
Just now say that you posted again. Great video. Thanks.
Great knowledge! Wish I'd known all this a year ago I could only fit 215/55/16 tires on 16×7 torque thrust. Had to roll fenders too
I found this channel by chance. You have answered every question I’ve had about my 66 mustang 289, and have helped me methodically diagnose and repair my cooling issues. You’re a humble, respectable and knowledgeable guy and that’s hard to find. Great videos brother!
that yellow dot under the R in proxy should be at the valve stem
The R888R is just a test fit tire, so it doesn’t matter on that one. The RA1s will be road force balanced when I install them. I was just making sure I had adequate clearance, and exceeded my own expectations.
Incredible video. Learned tons! Going through the suspension on my 65 now and the parts mentioned and philosophy behind them are great. Look forward to binging your content 😊
Thanks! I’ve been very busy this year, bought a newer home which includes a much larger GT350 Garage 2.0. Remodeled and sold my old home, and we’ve had some major family related events that demanded my full presence. The new garage is almost set up, and I’ll be back to making content in a few short weeks.
@@TheGT350Garage congrats! What state do you live in? I'd love a big enough garage one day to spread all the projects but I'm working out of a smaller 2 car garage, lucky enough to have that even here in California.
Hell yeah brother! This is going to be a sweet ride! I totally agree with your "be honest with yourself" motto with the car build ups. Really helped out with my decision making with my 2001 New Edge Cobra.
The 1.5” UCA drop is really helping with the camber gain! I did the typical 1” drop and I don’t see more than 3.5° or so with my current SoT arms. Was great to see someone measure the difference that extra drop made! Keep up the great content!
The SoT stuff is very nice, and the way Shaun builds the Arning drop into the upper A-arm shaft is slick, but it was the wrong look for me. My alignment is very aggressive, and so is my setup, for so much camber gain. By getting the arm close to parallel to the ground at ride height using the drop spindle and longer spring, I can run less camber initially and throughout the suspension travel I gain negative camber in both compression and extension. Like I said in the video a lot of effort went into this setup.
@@TheGT350Garage the effort shows! Have you measured how caster is contributing even more camber gain when the wheels are turned? I think the SoT dropped cross shaft is also at 1" so I got a standard cross-shaft so I can drill my towers to be lower instead, this video helped seal the deal! I have a 67, but I plan to also offset the holes 1/8" rearward (as was done with the 65-66 drop) to introduce positive caster that way. Hoping it will only take minimal tweaks to the UCA mounting points and strut rod to arrive at +5 caster, which is my target as well.
@jerrybates7490 keep in mind, my arms have caster built into the shafts, and I have a 1/8” shim on the front of the shaft to further add caster. That’s another thing you can tweak to gain more caster, I can put up to 3/8” of shim on the front bolt, with that I was well over 7° positive caster.
Thanks!
I always add a couple washers to the front upper control arm bolt when redoing front ends. Great video, informative and correct. Ty
On a stock 65-66 it’s a necessity because that’s the only place to add caster, but on the later 67-73 cars, it’s just “bonus” caster.
I have the Opentracker Spring Perches in my 66' GT350 Tribute. My car is also on the OT website. Great products and people.
Love your videos! Anything upcoming?
Absolutely, but I moved and that meant setting up an entirely new workspace.
Thanks, Walter.
Great video and I agree Opentracker is great!
Dude, I only clicked on yer vid, to checkout yer wheel/tire size combo... What an unintended freaking educational foray into early Ford racing front suspension theory!!! I am doing a 65 FB GT350 clone, as well, not on the road yet. 1" Arning drop, Roller perches, 620 standard springs, I saw conflicting data on ball joint bind, so I modified my upper standard arms, with the ball joint wedge kit, was gonna use my, older though new stock lower arms, I also installed the Street&T Lower Camber kit, I also reinforced my lower control arm mounting brackets, with 1/8" steel plates, was trying the low pressure KYB's for a change....Did the Borgeson power box and ididit column, and I'm looking forward to seeing how different, it feels, to to 64 coupe, w/stock everything, w/drag link p/s and 15" old school Torque Thrusts... What do ya think 🤔?
It sounds like you have a good starting point. The 1” Shelby/Arning drop produces a less drastic camber curve than I’m running, but still corrects the flawed factory geometry. So from ride height to full compression you’ll see 3° to 3.5° of camber gain and you’ll go slightly positive as the car unloads the suspension. The wedges are absolutely fine with the 1” arm relocation by the way. “620” springs are fine, they’re about 540lbs/in rate and that’s healthy for a light car, my spring rate initially is almost identical to a 620, but once ai get past the initial rate my Eibachs jump up to the 700lb/in zone which is monstrous comparatively. I’m running 195lb rear leafs as well, so it will ride like a go kart. Your KYBs will be the challenge; they aren’t valved correctly for that spring rate, so the car may feel bouncy or porpoise at times. I like the KYB Gas-A-Just high pressure gas shocks with the 620 springs, but I also just spent a bunch of seat time in a car with Bilsteins from Opentracker and that valving is perfection for a road car.
Walter, this is great - and quite timely as I literally just came in from doing a driveway alignment on my '65 fastback.
Can you please give more details on how to correctly adjust the Baer Tracker kit? I have one, but I don't really understand how to dial it in for maximum gain. I'm running an overall 1.5" drop from stock height but I'd still like to keep the (relatively minimal) bump steer reigned in.
Cheers from Canada!
Nice video. I have a 66 hardtop and also went with John’s strut rods, Global Western upper and lower arms with their Arning drop specs, NOS 65-66 big pin factory spindles (difficult to find), bearing spring perches, Bilstein shocks, John’s roller idler, and a softer spring than you are running, and factory power steering with a larger pulley on the pump. The car is still a project, but I hope to have it on the road next year and look forward to seeing how it handles. I expect stiffer than stock ride.
I haven’t decided on wheels but am leaning toward 16x7; I wish tire selection was better on the 15” as I really like the 15” Shelby style wheel. The 17” wheels are just too big IMO but to each their own.
I also went with the Kelsey Hays stock front disc with upgraded pads - keeping stock rear drums
On the strut rods, I cut the stops off the rod and used the factory steering stops; that just seemed a little more original to me. I look forward to seeing how you like the changes.
If you go Torque Thrust II 16x8 4.879 backspace, you can always space the wheel out for a little extra clearance on the inner side of the wheel and tire.
I’m glad to see you posted again! I always enjoy your content and the detailed thoughts that go along with the work.
I’ve got a question for you - I’ve got a 65 coupe that’s built specifically to be a driver. It gets me to work and back with a smile on my face. No car I’d rather own or drive.
It’s got the standard Arning drop and coil overs for the front, new springs and shocks in the rear. 225 60R15s. Handles great for what I do with it.
BUT the one thing that’s annoying is the rear jumping sideways when I go over a harsh bump. The front takes it just fine, but the rear likes to twerk. I understand that’s standard fare for straight axels in a light car, but I’d like to minimize it if possible. I’ve seen some folks recommend a panhard bar/rod to help mitigate this. Do you have any experience/opinion?
I’m looking forward to seeing your beast on the road!
I’ll be running a 5-leaf with reverse eye spring with Global West Del-A-Lum shackles and bushings. Stops the side step without a panhard or watts link.
Would you mind sharing again the wheel offset and width specifications you were able to go with for your 16" wheels with this specific suspension setup? I have a 1965 2+2 that I'm gathering information for.
Shoot me an email to TheGT350Garage@gmail.com and I can send you the full details on the suspension, brakes, wheels, and tires.
@@TheGT350Garage Awesome - will do.
Hey there Walter. How could i get a hold of you for some basic questions?
Email: TheGT350Garage@gmail.com
Where did you get your caliper and what's size are your rotos .they look great
Calipers are reproductions of the originals, available from a number of sources. Pads are EBC Red Stuff. The rotors are Powerstop. The brake hoses are Russell. Make sure you order ‘65-66 calipers and a ‘65-66 Hose kit, or ‘67 Calipers and a ‘67 Hose kit. The front brake hose connection are different sizes between the changeover so even though all the parts will look identical the hoses and calipers have to be for the same year.
When you say your set up would be uncomfortable for street driving, are you referring to primarily the spring rate and shock set up, or are you also referring to alignment specs?
Spring rates are part of it, the shocks will dial out most of the harshness. The caster will make low speed maneuvers challenging with manual steering. So city driving will take a lot of effort, highway driving will be pretty firm.
Do you recommend any of the rack and pinion steering conversions?
Not for a stock type suspension like I’m using. If you want power steering the 14:1 Borgeson conversion would be the best option, a stock steering system is perfectly safe and adequate for a manual steering car.
I’ve been working with a combination in California using the AJE Colt 65 suspension and we drove it for Hot Rod Power Tour West in December, it’s an entirely different experience from a stock suspension car, it actually feels more like driving a Fox Body. To me it changes the character of the car too much, but there are advantages like removing the spring towers, where it gets problematic is for guys who don’t have the means or knowledge to do their own alignment, shops do t seem to know how to handle cars like that, so a basic alignment can be an expensive and trying experience.
Great video! I am currently selecting suspension for my ‘66 GT350 clone through Open Tracker. I have landed on all the same stuff barring the drop
spindles and Vikings. I had not considered the Baer bump steer kit. I find it odd that people regularly specify toe IN for these cars and have yet to understand the reason. I was planning on running 0 toe or 1/16 toe out. Should I consider the bump steer kit? Also do you mind sharing what sway bar end link you have? My Scott Drake poly links are far too long. Thanks!
Toe in on any car helps with wander and darting on uneven surfaces. It also helps mask a lack of caster. I actually ordered the Vikings and spindles in a secondary order when I decided to push the combination to the limit. If your links are too long, just shorten the tubes and use shorter bolts, mine are from a company that is long gone, but you can order any number of lengths from Energy Suspension or Prothane if you want “kits”.
@@TheGT350Garage thank you for the advice. Do you expect your car to wander with the toe set out like you mentioned in the video or will this be mitigated by running the 6+ degrees of positive caster? Look forward to more of your content.
@porschenut9 it will probably chase grooved concrete but be fine on asphalt. Toe is fortunately very easy to change, so if I find it annoying on the road, I can easily switch between a road and track setting. Perks of having over 35 years of experience include being able to do these things without really having to think much about them.
Excellent video. Running TTDs 16x8 @ the front with new stock spindle and yoko 225 50 16 without any clearance issue but 245 did rub a bit when turning. So I wish I had known the spindle would have made a difference to run a square tire set up. Except for my Ridetech Street Grip dual rate coils (absolutely love em btw) I have all new front suspension components from CJ but I have a slight persisting wobble starting at 55MPH + that feels and look like I have parkinson despite installing new wheels and tires and having everything tighten up properly. This isn’t an issue at low speed or when braking and there’s no noticeable funny noise coming from the front end. I didn’t do an alignment since I replaced everything but the car drives really straight regardless. So any thought as to what I should be troubleshooting next aside from tearing everything apart and rebuilding my front suspension?
Could be the tires, some tread patterns chase the road more than others. Could be a steering or suspension component that’s misbehaving, but most likely it’s the alignment.
when you spinned the disc i could see that it was not straight si i think youre messurement now is off ? where did you buy the degrees tool?
You can get a simple bubble gauge off Amazon. I have an over the hub Blue Point (Snap-On) that needs to be repaired, one of my employees must have dropped it years ago, I hadn’t looked at it until just before this video and discovered one of the bubble tubes had leaked.
@@TheGT350Garage
Maybe put the measuring tool between the studs? Will this be straiter then the outer of the disc?
On Amazon you have clamp that clamp on the wheels bit will this be 100 percent straight? I don't know . For hobby cars maybe it will be enough
@chevroletbelair1 you’re overthinking it.
What camber/caster would be good to for street cruiser/ occasional race?
-.5° to -.75° with the 1” Arning drop will make a world of difference. Manual steering you still want 3.5-4.5° positive caster. And 1/16” to 1/8” toe in.
@@TheGT350Garage ok thank you. I got spc control arms with Shelby drop in them and Viking coil overs. I will try those thanks.
The SPC arms and ViKing coil overs should be a really nice setup. If you have a 65-66 you’ll want to move the camber adjustment to the lower arm and be sure to use an adjustable strut rod. Then as long as the car is square you should be able to use no shims on the rear bolt for the UCA shaft and install 1/8” to 1/4” of shim on the forward stud to build in additional caster. The camber conversion and strut rods from Opentracker are about $325-350 these days, and completely worth every penny if you do t have adjustability at those points.
@@TheGT350Garage thank you for the advise. This video was a great explanation/learning lesson. I’m now going to order the camber kit. The SPC arms came with adjustable strut rods. The questions now is should I get the roller lower arms too?
@MrJoea11 if you want to maximize caster with an adjustable strut rod, the rubber bushing in the lower arms will take a beating. If your arms are in good shape, lower mileage, you can get the parts from Opentracker and convert them.
Only the 67 Cougar had an an articulated strut rod from the factory! It was done away in 68 for cost reasons.
Unfortunate too, my ‘67 Cougar remains one of my favorite cars, and those articulated strut rods worked.