PGA Tour: “Greed is a terrible thing.” Average guy: “I’ll take one T-shirt from the merchandise tent and one michelob ultra please.” PGA Tour: “Ok, that’ll be $97 dollars.”
Gouging for concessions and merchandise is overpriced anywhere, PGA, NFL, MLS and down to minor league baseball and concerts. Is this news to you? If so, how big is that rock you live under?
@@majscrap2629 I’ve been to AA and AAA baseball games within the last three months…saw T-shirts made of the same material for $12 and bought the same size domestic beers for $5…sounds like when it comes to greed, the PGA Tour takes it to a whole new level.
@@gep2771 PGA Tour is sweating a whole heck of a lot more than what they’re letting on right now. Their tactic of bullying, dictating, and threatening is going to backfire on them. That crap doesn’t work like it used to.
@@gep2771 its pretty obvious you are repeating the PGA PR talking points. but if were gonna go there. I live in an underserved community. trust me when i tell you we have not seen the PGA reportedly epic philanthropy here. i think its double speak for "tax deductions / good pr" end of the day. its a business. like anything else. contrary to what the PR machine is telling you. the players are their own brand. even if the pga says. those things are one and the same. if the PGA wants to own them even more ( they currently own the players media rights. at the exclusion of the actual player being able turn around and profit from their own image). They can pay the players a minimum stipend. or put them on a contract that guarantees income. even a modest one. with the potential for more with a win. they dont. If we take another step back, turn off ranting ridiculous Chambleee. and look at it objectively. Competition is good. the free market is generally good. and yes. ryder cup etc is long in prestigous history. last i checked, you cant pay your bills and feed your kids with "prestige" so all that lofty ideals stuff goes right out the window. if the PGA wants to own these guys. they should pay them a salary. it aint rocket science man. im not saying SAUDI league good. but im saying PGA whiny child behaviour very bad... bad for them . bad for the game. but not a surprise for me at all. dont belive the hype my friend. the CEOS and others all pull a salary. like any other "non profit" rant over. have a great day. xo
PGA tour made 1.1 billion last year , the top players work for them. Look at NBA, imagine a NBA player gets payed only by winning while the NBA makes dollars out of their media rights.
The PGA Tour will not lose anything in court - contract law 101; the LIV players have penned their signatures in agreement to the rules and digressions and cause of the PGA Tour. They all signed a contractual agreement of conditional employment, as all members of the American workforce do - in fact, those LIV players who did not request a release could quite easily see themselves having to pay the PGA Tour for breach of contract. In terms of contract law, the LIV players have no legal footing, as long as they signed on a dotted line.
@@krismm2003 This is my opinion. Even though I am not an attorney I do work with litigators in large law firm market. One guy said "the Saudi's" will win because they have more money. I said back to him that I can guarantee that the PGA works with the best top tier law firms in the country and they will have the top talent working for them.
If the PGA Tour had just said sure, go play 8 tournaments a year, as long as you maintain a playing schedule on the PGA Tour there's no problem, then this LIV stuff would just fizzle out and nobody would care.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahaha!!! This made my day... Vindictive always.... Ahahahahahahahahahahaha!! Good one man...
If someone offers me double the amount of money for less hours of work, Ill definitely go for it. 72 holes vs 54. Also the golfers that don't make the cut in PGA, don't get paid anything, whereas everybody gets paid in the LIV. The PGA is acting like a dictatorship...
Yeah, but only handful of players get paid, because it's 48-man competition. If you wanna get to that level, for the Saudi organizers wanting to sign you, you still have to go trough PGA tour. There are no junior tournaments, there is no admission to 200th best player in the world. You are in only if you are a proven player. And they don't give 22-yearold a chance to prove themselves unless they already won n major. Nobody else, but those high profile players gets their fair chance in these events. Everybody still have to climb to their status through PGA events. So it actually does nothing for the sport. It's a small millionaire's private club, nothing more than that. PGA does all the work, and they just want to skim the cream...
@@gibson3lespaul please check the world rankings of the players entered in the first event, you might be surprised. ex. Chase Koepka 1543. Graeme McDowell 376. and others.
Most business people know that when new competitors come around you've got to pay attention to what they are offering your potential customers. In this case, the "customer" is the player(s) and if their counter offer is to tell the customer "use my business now or never call me back" you'll soon be out of business
I love how everyone “Duval” is trying to shame the guys who went and played in the LIV tournament this week. These guys are still good Dudes no matter where they play. This is Golf, not politics.
@@TH-cam_is_full_of_trolls NFL, MLB and MLS players aren't independent contractors. They're under contract. PGA players aren't under contract. That's the entire point. If you want to not pay the players a contract, you can't act like you own them when they want to go play somewhere else for more money.
@@That_Cajun_Guy they are pga of America members... they agreed to tos conditions... like anything else... in return, they get national TV coverage, pga retirement benefits, etc... and all the branding hype associated...
@@TH-cam_is_full_of_trolls But you asked how the NFL, MLB, etc would react... and it would be warranted as they PAY their players a contract. PGA does not. There's a difference. Like I previously stated, if you don't want to pay them a contract to play solely for you, acting like you own them when they leave to play somewhere that will is childish.
"What some are willing to do in pursuit of the dollar" coming from the league that changes $22 for a Michelob Ultra at its tournaments, and $100 for shirts. How about the PGA figure out how to appropriately compensate its athletes instead of trying to suspend them for trying to secure a future for their families.
Hahaha exactly! Apparently fedex have accepted hundreds of millions in donations and investment from the Saudi’s too. Literally funded by the same people
@@dbo4506 Seriously. Man, I was hoping Tiger and Rory would have jumped over to LIV as well. Good luck PGA with your biggest names going elsewhere. haha!
Do me a favour, they're all multi millionaires many times over. I have no problem with them playing where they like but lets not pretend it's this or poverty. Frankly it's insulting to anyone who has to graft just to live week to week and it's completely disingenuous. This bollocks about providing for their families from Westwood and Poulter, who are worth between 80 and 100 million between them, is a joke. Just say you want to milk as much as you can from the game before you retire and I'll retain a little respect.
Losing Mickelson, DJ and Sergio was just the first shot across the bow. When you add in DeChambeau, Patrick Reed, Ricky Fowler, Bubba Watson and Brooks Koepka you've got a real turf war on your hands. And if Justin Thomas and Rory make the jump...well then shit just got real. Grab your popcorn and a comfortable seat because this LIV tour is here to stay; like it or not.
Rory is the most gutless mindless sheep, who serves the elitists. JT said one three letter word under his breath, leading to his sponsor world being turned upside down. Neither is leaving the pga!
Saudi Arabia finances al-Qaeda, so keep watching. Not much different than watching the 1936 German Olympics. It’s great to give money to a country that put people in planes that took down the World Trade Center buildings. Like it or not, you’re helping to fund terrorism if you watch this shit. And who cares if the PGA tour suspends the players, people are going to cry over million dollar athletes not being allowed to play in a tour. Society is a joke now.
The PGA needs some competition! They want to be the only game in town, and expect their players to be good little slaves. When was the last time the PGA was audited? An organization that claims to be nonprofit but rakes in the money they do, should have yearly audits.
Both the PGA and LIV do nothing for the average golfer except drive up the price of equipment thanks to insane endorsement money, which is now wholly unaffordable for many.
I have no interest in third grade golf tournaments, which is about all that the LIV events amount to. There is zero prestige attached to the highly overpaid LIV circus.
Not so good for the community of gays, women seeking human rights, journalists, and anyone else dissenting against MBS and the Saudis. Even a grade schooler could understand that.
@@platypusjonesy2757 wonder why US still buy oil and sell them weapons.... Golfing world should surely step up if American govt can't. Blood is in the hands of Phil Mickelson
@@danmardavdyl Have you ever read a history book? You think the US government isn't shady as hell? Two wrongs don't make a right. Mickelson is still wrong, no matter what brush you'd like to paint it with.
Why would anybody leave a job that you have to pay your own travel fee and work two days to miss a cut and not get a paycheck?? This is all about the top guys and does nothing for the bottom rung of the ladder. Phil was deeply criticized but was spot on. This will end up changing things sooner than later. The PGA takes in Billions and members will see a better model soon. That is brought on thru good competition
The PGA would have been better off allowing the players to choose without penalty. Provide a superior product and you don't have to worry about competition. This move makes them seem bitter and worried about the LIV tour. On the other hand, from the day they threatened sanctions, they had to follow through with them.
Ok, so an NHL player gets an offer for more money to play in European League. I’d say good bye and good luck with that but we won’t continue to pay your very generous salary and benefits.
@@Petertrottierrealtor if you play in the NHL you make a lot of money. It's the too league and even the 4th line gets hundreds of thousands of dollars. PGA most players lose money when they go to tournament
That is what employers do. Those who do not like it can leave. Why do you even care? You do not live their lifestyle and you should say the same about Mc Donalds employees who complain about their jobs. That is on your level.
@@thetruthfornow6045 The PGA is not their employer. It doesn't pay just because your there. You don't make the cut, tough shit. It brings performers to it's stage. Now if the player signed a contract, then I could see the PGA' s side. Players are independent workers. They go where the money is.
@@mikemcdonald9337 okay they left and went for the money. We all leave jobs at some point for more money. But once we leave there is no looking back. The reason they made so much money is because the PGA is a top shelf product. They secure the best courses and improve on them. That costs money. If the PGA was rinky dink viewers would not be watching and the purses would be like the Hogan tour or whatever they are calling the tour below. Pros who graduate to the PGA are in awe of the first class treatment and the organization of the PGA. That takes money.
@@thetruthfornow6045 so the government should have just let southwestern Bell monopolize everything back in the day. Whoever you work for, that should be the only company in that form of business. With that thought in mind, there would only have been Apple and no Microsoft.
For those who said that playing the PGA Tour is not for money...yah if they cut the prize to 1/10th, let's see how many top players will stay. The Tour simply can't stand another tour paying more prizes...
@@TH-cam_is_full_of_trolls These things can turn on a dime, 10 years from now people might not care about who wins the Masters The thing is you just don't know
@@DanielSong39 yes yes you do know.... nobody gives a shit about winning a golf tournament (as replacement for a major) that has a 10 year history and doesn't have a tradition of drawing the world's greatest players... golf like any sport is built on history and traditions... not how much money the Arabs pay you
@@DanielSong39 That is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard, the masters has way too much historical significance for golfers to stop caring about it lmao.
So they can play maybe 6-8 tournaments a year? Not gonna happen... and least not for the young guns. LIV may get a few more on the downhill side of their careers like the 12 or so that left... maybe.
So the PGA tour spends the week in Canada, where the prime minster, trampled their citizens right to peacefully protest by: physical abuse, financial threats, trampled by horses, and arrests for peaceful protests. Sounds like a fascist state to me. Never heard any outrage by the golf channel, the pga tour, and the pga players!
All I see coming of this is the PGA having to walk back these sanctions. More and more players are going to start the move over to LIV. As soon as LIV lands even one young budding superstar, it’s over for the PGA. They have no ground to stand on other than the “legacy” of the tour and majors.
Since you have the power of clairvoyance and can predict the future, would you mind giving me the next jackpot winning PowerBall number. I could use the extra $239 million dollars. Thanks.
@@majscrap2629 hahaha the flood gates are about to open mate. They will budge or they’ll lose the integrity of their product because they’re going to lose a host of top 50 players.
The pga is only trying to protect their business as any would. These players are only making the move for $. All the history and legacy will disappear. The only thing left for golf will be $ matches that very few will be interested of . It’s sad that the pga will possibly be ended by a brutal regime with tons of $ only trying to improve their image. Pga golf is the best in the world that all of these guys dreamed of joining as kids .
@@dbo4506 not really. Those LIV events don't have official world golf ranking points. So as these guys play in LIV they lose ranking points. After while none of them will be ranked inside the top 100 in the world. The masters invites the top 50, PGA tour winners, previous masters winners. These guys will eventually lose out chasing a quick buck. Flood gates. Not so much its only 48 players that's it. These players will forever have a shit stain on their reputation. It's all going to come down to majors and whether or not the Saudis make money. Make no mistake they don't want to just willy nilly hand out a few hundred million without an opportunity to make it back and then some. They need a TV deal in the US and sponsors, otherwise it will fail
It’s only a game of golf and they are professional players, they should have the opportunity to play anywhere they choose. Does the PGA own players ??? maybe their membership is archaic and needs to be brought up to date. Maybe both parties are thinking money money money.
Well PGA is an association and they are member of that association. I don't know about you, but if I want to be part of some club, I usually follow their rules. And these player freely decided (as you put it yourself) they will play for another association, breaking the rules of their previous association. And this association has every right to deny them participation in the events that they organize. Kind of simple if you think about it...
“Greed is a terrible attribute. Now if you don’t mind we’re going to go back to our everyday attributes, which are bullying, threatening, dictating, and monopolizing.” -The PGA Tour
The PGA Tour does not own “the players” they qualify and work their asses off to make the tour and play. i have much respect for what the PGA Tour has done for golf etc.. but did the Canadian tour ban Mike Wier when he made the PGA Tour? Did the European tour banned Rory, Lee Westwood and many others for coming to America to play? Absolutely not because they knew if and when Rory or others made an appearance back in their country or played a tournament on the European tour that event would see more spectators and get more coverage than ever. If I was a tour player the response and actions of the PGA would really make me rethink my commitment and furthermore their commitment to the players who represent and made the PGA Tour what it is. LIV is good for golf, the PGA should be happy and maybe look at the positive expansion of the game instead of the dollars or hurt to their image
@@larrymosher5045 The US government has killed countless innocents and destroyed communities by starting proxy wars across the planet to line the pockets of politicians and war profiteers. But somehow we have some sort of moral highground over Saudi Arabia? This is laughable. Let's also point out all of the PGA merchandise that's manufactured in China, the bastion of human rights. While we're at it, let's talk about all of the imported oil that we buy from Saudi Arabia. Why do folks keep calling LIV golf the "Saudi backed" golf league. If the Saudis were funding an orphanage or a cancer research facility, would everyone be tacking "Saudi backed" on the front of it? This is nothing but defamatory PGA propaganda.
@@madisonmathews9849 I don’t think it’s easy to know anymore since most of the top players stats will be scrubbed due to the ban. You should be able to see top players according to the PGA website though. Just note due to PGA monopoly the stats may not reflect every golfer in the world.
It’s sickening to hear the PGA whine about this. Players have been complaining for years about not making the cut, not getting paid for appearing, Pro-Am’s, travel and long work weeks and they haven’t addressed it. Guess what? Somebody else was listening! The cry baby announcers on XM radio are sickening too. If someone walked into their office today and said “I’m going to pay you as much money next year as you have made in the last 15” They would be gone in a second! Those that don’t leave shouldn’t whine either, they just eliminated 48 players from the next cut line. Those on the mini tour should be ecstatic! Moving up the ladder! NEXT 48 UP BOYS, LETS GO MAKE SOME MONEY!
I find it amazing that a player deciding to play 8 events and not on Sundays gets told that they are not thinking about their families. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 That's EXACTLY who are they thinking about vs 30 events all away from home.
LIV will fly them home on Sundays jn private jets . I’m starting to wonder about if PGA charitable tax free status is a shell, weird to see a charity being draconian
It’s funny how a league that doesn’t guarantee anything to its players acts like the players owe them loyalty. Give me a break. I don’t want to hear anything about the Saudi’s either. Where is your President at right now. He’s going to break bread with the Crown Prince. We as Americans have been in business/trade with the Saudi’s for decades. The PGA has been able to operate without any competition for decades and they’ve taken advantage of that status. The PGA has been on the wrong side of history time and time again.
The PGA Tour has been saying for a long time now that they want to see the game of golf expand globally. Congratulations. Your dreams are coming to fruition. Take a bow.
Not really. A monopoly would be the PGA filing injunctions to prevent players from choosing to play anywhere else. Telling players that make that choice to go elsewhere that they aren’t welcome to play for you while playing for a competition is fairly capitalistic in nature. Letting players play both would likely rank the tour, as without some downside risk nothing would be there to stop every top player from playing in LIV and making the PGA obsolete.
@@Matt-cr4vv not true. Why do u think the bold print suspended indefinitely? They are stating if you play for LIV and if that league fails, your career is over. U can't ever come back to PGA. That is not free market. That is what someone who owns the whole market would say.
If the aim of being a professional golfer is to get paid, then these LIV blokes just won. How pathetic for "The Tour" to suspend them. They're supposed to be growing the game, and as far as I can tell, LIV just grew the game and gave more opportunity to golfers than the PGA Tour have done in a while. Maybe work WITH them and not against them then everyone can win!?
It’s interesting - the argument about human rights and the Saudis being the reason why these golfers shouldn’t participate. China has MUCH worse human rights issues, genocide in fact, however the PGA and other sports welcome their sports people, and we all still buy stuff made in China! - a bit hypocritical don’t you think? Also I believe that it’s good for golf. The 50 plus golfers leaving the PGA will give an opportunity to 50 plus up and coming future stars to get into touring golf earlier.
I 100% agree. if they're using the human rights card they need to direct their attention to the government. and ask why they never imposed any sanctions after the murder of Khashoggi and leave the players out of it
China produces too many golf products for dirt cheap. That would mess up their business model if they messed with china. They don’t want to cut into their own profits. 👀
@@MsCh1mp Mass shootings, LOL. Every day people shoot each other in cities around the nation but mass shootings are the problem? No one cares when there are 100+ shootings in big cities around the country each and every month. But mass shootings are the real problem huh? It’s violence that is the problem. People wanting to kill each other and we ignore this problem. We ignore small atrocities which turn into large atrocities, then finally people speak up. Maybe start with the everyday killings and murderers then we might actually get somewhere. People do speak out against China, in fact Trump did just that and he was called xenophobic.
DJ got a exemption earlier this year from the pga to play in Saudi Arabia….sooooooo what are we doing. Oh side note, the pga has a WGC in china. Just saying
Golfers should be allowed to play wherever they want. The Pga could say that you have to compete in this number of events, but not suspend them. Why can't we hear from the guys that this will effect? Cover the LIV tour as well. You are the golf channel, not the pga channel.
The PGA tour needs these players a hell of a lot more than they need them. There are plenty of tours. I honestly hope more players follow and leave these "dedicated" pga players with something to think about when hardly any one is playing on the PGA tour.
That will never happen. Too much history with the pga tour in golf, and the courses and events that hold major significance all fall within the pga tour.
@@Jonathan-cz4ky I hear ya...I just never use the N word! Also....money talks! When more players jump ship, the PGA tour will adjust their thinking! Until then...EFFF the pga tour!
No, you GTFOH. You can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that supporting a government that murders journalists, women seeking human rights, gays, and anyone else with dissenting thought against MBS and the Saudis. Or maybe you simply lack any sort of morality system. It's not complicated. You just don't give a shit because it doesn't effect anyone you care about directly. What size clown shoes do you wear?
I keep reading and hearing "the players are doing what's best for them" Well,,,,, the PGA is now doing what's best for THEM. YOUR FIRED!!!! They gave warning to the golfers leaving. And they left anyway. I'm reminded of when Air Traffic controllers when on strike in 1981. President Reagan told them to return to work or be terminated. They didn't and they we're Terminated!!!! I applaud 👏 the PGA for keep their promise.
No, but they have associated themselves with a criminal regime. In the current climate these golfers had an opportunity to stand up to a corrupt regime but instead they sold themselves out. Very disappointing.
@@barryosullivan1486 they are just playing golf mate. As if America isn’t doing trade with countries with what we call shady. The PGA isn’t happy about competition
@@phillnavin1212 and being paid in blood money. I am not saying the PGA is perfect and I support competition but sure this is wrong. A corrupt, murderous regime backing a new tour can't be the way forward.
@@barryosullivan1486 yet America & Saudi Arabia are large traders……. Why is that fine, yet a PGA member not allowed to play in a golf tournament. Seems hypocritical. Why are Russian tennis players allowed to play in US tournaments when war crimes are being made by their country.
@@barryosullivan1486 they allowed a tournament in Saudi Arabia, have an event in China, you're likely using a Chinese iPhone and using Arabian oil. Imagine thinking that America doesn't have blood on their own hands (was slavery conveniently forgotten about or killing native americans). Pretty hypocritical...
All suspended players can join the DP World Tour when not playing on the Liv Tour and Majors. Plus not all players have broken the rules as some have resigned from the PGA Tour in advance. I'm concerned that some comments made by journalists and others could be considered defamatory.
I'd love for the suspended players win a multimillion dollar lawsuit against PGA for restriction of trade. As long as they play the minimum required tournaments and are good enough to earn enough to keep PGA cards, what's the problem?
If the PGA were truly comfortable with their position on the golf viewer totem pole, they wouldn't be lashing out. They are injured already and perhaps may be on life support if LIV catches fire.
Injured??😅 From what? A dozen golfers past their prime, on their downhill side of their career jumping ship? Don't really have much of a head for business do you?😅
But in a league that generates $1.5B in revenue you can’t monetarily compete with an entity with a bottomless pit of cash that allows itself to pay guys 9 figure deals just to join. But I don’t see them crumbling with the percentage of guys who want to stay.
BTW; I did watch the LIV coverage of the London Invitational and guess what: no molesting add-breaks every 7 minutes, pure and simple golf. That’s what I like…
A question to those who know, what "tournament regulations" exactly are being referred to? Because what about the people that play both DP world and PGA tournaments? Wouldn't any co-sanctioning of events in any case contravene these regulations? OR does it only count for tours or events that might compete with PGA on a fair footing?
@F Democrats Because that is in the rules that they sign when they become a member. see it is not that hard. Of course for Republicans the English language is hard to understand.
@@Gnofg Yes but I don't think it's quite that simple, they are independent contractors, there will be some interesting legal battles that come out of this. There are limits to what companies can dictate and control when it comes to a contract employee. Nobody has ever really challenged it before with the PGA, but it sounds like they will now. Especially in the case of Mickelson who is a lifetime PGA tour member, this means that he's not required to play a single PGA tour even to keep his membership. How can they dictate to him what he's doing when he's not playing? The guys that are not life time members are required to play 15 events per year to keep their membership, that is something that is likely enforceable by the PGA.
It would be so funny if RORY made the change to LIV… he’s definitely getting low key offers from them… So is Ricky… and probably a hand full of others… this is great…
@@davidchipman7612 Or maybe Rory just has morals and values that he isn't willing to sacrifice for some extra money when he's already rich. Your "two wrongs make a right" argument is weak and tired. "Well the NBA is in bed with China!"...as if that somehow makes taking Saudi money ok. The NBA is just as complicit for doing what they do. MBS and the Saudis kill journalists, gays, and women who seek the same rights you sure as hell would demand for your own wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, etc. But you don't give a shit because it's not effecting the people you care about. So who cares, right? Out of sight, out of mind. They're trying to cover all that up by putting on big sporting events and you can't wait to buy in. I could give a shit about golf, really. But there's right, and then there's wrong. It's sad to see so many people on here with the mindset of "Well, the world is already on fire, what's a little more gasoline gonna hurt if I come out ahead in the end." Love that. Way to be a part of the problem guys. 👏👏👏
the PGA is fighting to maintain the monopoly of golf around the world. It's just normal for them to belittle the competition. When they started forcing players to play 15 (or so) tournaments per year, and not only majors and big money tournaments, I knew it was just a matter of time. The LIV tour is right on cue and more players will be joining it soon.
It’s tough running a monopoly. Keeping control of all these rogue golfers is tough. I think any entertaining golf is good for the game no matter what tour or series it is.
We will see what happens when the gimmick wears off and these garbage ass player fields produce shitty golf if you won’t flip the channel when a major is on !
When the PGA tour recognizes that youtubers like Not A Scratch Golfer, Rick Schiels, Peter Finch, etc. are tremendous for the growth of the sport (because they really are) I don't think we can trust the PGA really cares about growing the sport. This is going to be a crazy opinion to some but they remind me of the promoters and sanctioning body of Supercross and Motocross...heavy hitters that aren't doing much to actually grow the sport but to rather get more money. This all being said, I don't believe the Saudi's give a crap about the sport either...they're opportunists....so it's a little disingenuous to say Liv is "good for the sport."....it will remain to be seen.
Don't disagree with your views on what's best for the sport in principle, but I'm not sure about their relevance in this specific situation, which really boils down to a contractual dispute (legally, a potential tort - I'm sure that's coming). So I'm also not sure what the role, good or otherwise, of club pro TH-camr coaches like Rick Shiels have to do with any of this in those terms. The PGA has its weaknesses for sure, but that's not what this is really about. This is Packer-like attempted coup. I certainly agree with your last points.
Im not sure why Rory is bashing LIV. If LIV takes 10 or 15 more top players, he might have a chance to actually win a PGA event for the first time in over a year 😂
@@therookiemistake9714 believe it or not many corporate services / products we use here in the US are funded by saudis (I.e. Boeing, Facebook, Disney, Starbucks, and etc.). If you are so conscious about “blood money”, suggest you literally stop using technology and current products and time travel to the 70-80’s…
@@therookiemistake9714 you gotta start the league from somewhere… I think you are missing the point here, all these sports leagues get complacent with their fans because there is no competitive threat which last time I checked, is a huge anti trust problem… if you want to golf to flourish like I do, you want to see pga and LIV come up with more creative ways to present their product for consumers like us. What’s the problem with that? LIV may start with washed up players but once other big name golfers see their value, they will jump ships and pga will be forced to get creative too
If the golfers are truly independent contractors as they claim to be, then the PGA has every right to terminate their contracts if they choose to move to help a competitor. Whether it is a good business decision or not remains to be seen.
It’s not a contract, it’s a membership. The PGA tour has had a monopoly on pro golf for decades. Looks to me like the PGA is afraid of some competition.
@@madD8845 The PGA is more than the men's league. It is the development tours, Korn Ferry, LPG and Seniors. They get the venues, sponsorships and TV contracts. Liv does nothing to support the entire golfing community.
Every independent contractor still has regulations to follow! One of the regulations on the pga tour is they are not allowed to play conflicting events ie Canadian open is this week but the liv players are playing in london
@@madD8845 It was the players that said they were independent contractors not me or the PGA. You can't have it both ways. If they are members of the club...then they should follow the rules of the club. If they are independent contractors then they abide by the rules for those they contract with. L(iv) golf has rules too...lets see what happens when they violate those.
I did the math out earlier. If the PGA (based on revenue/number of players) paid their members the same as the NBA, all players would have a minimum of $500k/year salary.
You mean if they don't pay any of their employees of course? And don't organize a single tournament of course? And don't give anything to charities or youth competitions? And you accounted to all 29,000 members in the US and other ones that are international members as well, of course? I mean I got a significantly different number, but who cares, right... You are just making a point.
Very disappointing that so many golfers would sell out in this manner. Not surprised at Mickelson or Norman as they come across as very shallow individuals but the others have let themselves down very badly. Talk about doing anything for money.
It's so great to see with every interview these guys get a little less cocky about how they're not worried. These company Men are about to be left behind and I love it
@@markanderson7833 Phil made that this week.But shouldn't be worried bout the money but the so called prestige of winning on tour.It was all fun and games when they just had Phil to go after now they are scared
How is the PGA Tour a 501C? MLB and NFL use to have this status, they lost it. NBA never had it probably because historically among the NFL, MLB and NBA, the NBA was always historically more the niche sport. Golf because it has always done charity in the past would historically be a 501C. But today, are they really a 501C? How many 501C's have Pension plans like the PGA has?
@@krismm2003 Well these would be more of 401 or 403 type plans, not Defined Benefit plans. The Pension plan would have to be more of a Defined Contribution plan, with the employees of the 501C making a contribution from their own earnings and the 501C being set up to spend some of the money it raised on employee pension plans i.e. make a matching contribution to the employees plan. So is the PGA a private 501C or more of a Public 501C. Private ones like Bill Gates 501C rely on funding from a few big time wealthy donors (himself included). Pubic 501C's like Universities are different and have different requirements on how their money can be spent. I have read best practices to stay true to mission and not get into the IRS crosshair is to spend 75% of revenues on programs/mission and 25% on Administrative costs, so pension costs would be included therefore within the Admin costs. Remember, at one time the NFL and MLB had 501C status, they lost it. Of course, the MLB and NFL had Labor Unions, signed contracts to play for their respective teams, which in substance made them more like businesses, while they in form were 501C's. The PGA Tour does not have employees/labor (the PGA tour members are 1099 Independent contractors not W2 employees) nor do the PGA tour players have a labor union. Seems like the PGA tour is acting more like the MLB and NFL treating the PGA tour players as W2 employees, who sign contracts. Phil Mickelson "earned" lifetime exemption on the PGA tour with 45 wins. If he is a 1099 Independent Contractor, he should be able to go play whatever Tournament he wants, if the Sponsor of the Tournament wants him to play in it. Personally, I think the PGA Tour while in legal form is structured as a 501C, is in substance more like a business. This to me seems very similar to the NCAA and NIL situation, Universities under the guise of being 501C's and NCAA athletes deemed amateurs while the Schools, Coaches, TV networks, make billions of dollars.
@@roycedot I agree they do charitable work. And I think that is great. But they act like PGA tour players signed contracts to play with the PGA tour? While the PGA Tour has Pension plans like the other professional sports (MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA), the PGA tour players do not have a players Union. All of those players that are signed by those other professional teams get a contract to play and they have labor unions. They get paid as W2 employees. PGA tour players are paid as 1099 Independent contractors. So while in Legal Form the PGA is a 501C, their business model is in substance not a 501C and more like a private business. In many ways, I see the PGA tour as being similar to the NCAA and Universities with big time sports programs, and in this case I am talking about Football and Men's Basketball. Universities are 501C's and the NCAA have operated revenue producing sports, i.e. March Madness (Final Four) NCAA Mens BB tournament and big-time Power 5 college football under the guise of amateurism. SCOTUS 9-0!!! ruled that the no organization in America could operate like NCAA sports and ruled that NCAA athletes should be able to profit off their Name, Image and Likeness (NIL) and we now have that going one. I predict that big-time NCAA "Mens" sports that operate and make a profit are going to split off. Players that play big-time Men's college basketball and football are going to get paid salaries to play (with some salary cap similar to Pro sports) and the players themselves will be able to go to the market and negotiate NIL deals at market rates. If the PGA tour wants the best players to play, negotiate contracts with the players. Sign them to 3-5 year deals with fixed salary, bonuses, etc and of course the players make what they can earn by their play. Players that don't pan out, when their contract ends, they may no longer be on contract with the tour and they have to back and earn their tour card. In my view, all players that are on the Tour should get the cost of attendance (lodging, Meals and travel). I would think players like Tiger and Phil in their prime would have been able to sign to the PGA tour but put in their contracts they have the right to go play 1 event on the Asian Tour, 1 in Europe and 1 in the Middle East, if they choose, for a lucrative appearance fee without impacting their status on the PGA tour. Some players, maybe like Jordan, JT, Rory might sign to only play exclusively on the PGA tour. Fine.
So what happens to someone who is not a member of the PGA tour and plays in Liv golf? will they be allowed to later go to Qschool to try to earn a card?
Well I would rather not play for an association that think they own you, all the players that went to liv are probably thinking “well. Screw you then” 😂 I for one think the liv tour is a well needed modernised approach to the game to get more people involved, it’s exciting and team based which I think will approve to a bigger variety of younger audience
More people involved? It's 48 top tier players. No chance for anybody to get into this league unless they prove them selves through what? PGA tour events of course. Which PGA organizes... On all levels, not only top-tier level. Giving the same chance to everybody. While LIV gives the same chance only to 48 players...
I wonder if all the Euros who can't win by themselves for decades at a time like the $$ or the team thing more. God knows IP & LW made the correct decision. Good luck chaps!
Liv Golf media is superior to the Golf channel and the networks. Not forced to use silly words and descriptions like penalty area, teeing ground , putting surface. Good to hear pins, greens, water, 3 woods, back on the tee. Great job by a strong staff of announcers and commentators on the LIV tour. Great presentation. I thought the networks lost it. Especially CBS. This was confirmation. Love Dottie, Maltbie, Azinger, a couple others . Send the rest home.
I'm not even interested in watching the PGA tours now, considering how they have acted like a bunch of petulant children just because someone finally threatened their monopoly.
I agree, at first I didn’t think much about this, then I saw how the PGA reacted, golf channel “analysts” reacted and I started paying attention. The virtue signaling act like they care about Saudi Arabia and human rights, where have they been for the last 50 years? Now that Phil left…he has to answer for that stuff? The condescending attitude of people saying it’s just “for the money” and it’s selfish. Absolutely it is, so what? Good for them. If they can make more money, working less and still enjoy the sport they love, great. They owe nobody anything…except to be the best person for their family.
I saw a pga official mentioning how families of 9/11 are upset about the LIV tour, European tour have been going to Saudi for years but haven't heard such outrage from them about it.
The PGA tour is too greedy if you're in the tournament and you don't make the cut the pros make zero while they still have all the expenses. While the PGA tour uses the pros play on TV. The PGA tour makes over a billion dollars from TV rights, how much of that did they pay out to the pros. I thought they were supposed to be a non-profit. What are they doing with all the money that they're hoarding from the players? They have a huge endowment. Yet they charge over $5,000 from the young kids doing q School. PGA tour is ridiculously greedy.
Feed you family guys and don't regret It. You made it this far so play for money, then When you make enough to sit comfortably, then play for your legacy.
Tiger only declined cause he see's a weak field in future majors. If he was 22, he make 2 billion dollars with LIV. Let's stop treating golfers like their not in it for the money. Zero judgment to get the bag of GUARANTEED cash!
Reading the comments here, I suspect that LIV has adopted the paid comments or bots approach in an effort to lift the esteem in which its third grade golf events are held by the public. No more than a curiosity at the start, but I can't see holding the interest of the public when you look at the quality of players that are participating.
Exactly... I watched 30 mins and had to turn it. It was like watching the Korn Ferry tour with an occasional appearance by a PGA player on the downhill side of their career😅
I am for the players and am not a bot or paid. I am a golfer and golf is a job for these players. I get them going for the paycheck. If the PGA changes to a for profit company, they can start paying players to show up also. They have saved 200-300 million in taxes by being a non profit. That decision helps the PGA , not the golfers. This is a business and the players have to make whatever business decision is best for them and their families.
@@batsonelectronics You make it sound as if these poor bastards are starving because of the pittance they earn on the established tours. Hopefully some of their sponsors will walk away from them because the exposure through LIV events will be very limited.
@@gustaaf1892 except for the top 3-5 names, I doubt the others make a whole lot. Getting free golf equipment doesn't pay any bills. Many sponsorships are just free custom equipment, not actual money.
@@batsonelectronics They get their expenses covered, they make good to excellent prize money, they get appearance money in plenty of countries outside the US, they get large sponsorship incomes. All the golfers on the main PGA tour are very well to do.
Incorrect - absurd attempt at correlation - these issues are rooted in contract law and unfortunately, the LIV players signed a contractual agreement with an employer and have now breached their terms of employment - easy case - the signatures stand as evidence for no legal footing.
@@krismm2003 never realized so many people had read a pga tour contract. f'n amazing. in a democracy the pga's actions would be ok, we are a republic though
PGA Tour: “Greed is a terrible thing.”
Average guy: “I’ll take one T-shirt from the merchandise tent and one michelob ultra please.”
PGA Tour: “Ok, that’ll be $97 dollars.”
Gouging for concessions and merchandise is overpriced anywhere, PGA, NFL, MLS and down to minor league baseball and concerts. Is this news to you? If so, how big is that rock you live under?
@@majscrap2629 I’ve been to AA and AAA baseball games within the last three months…saw T-shirts made of the same material for $12 and bought the same size domestic beers for $5…sounds like when it comes to greed, the PGA Tour takes it to a whole new level.
@@gep2771 PGA Tour is sweating a whole heck of a lot more than what they’re letting on right now. Their tactic of bullying, dictating, and threatening is going to backfire on them. That crap doesn’t work like it used to.
Apparently you haven't checked out what it costs to enjoy this crap....it shud be no charge.
@@gep2771 its pretty obvious you are repeating the PGA PR talking points. but if were gonna go there. I live in an underserved community. trust me when i tell you we have not seen the PGA reportedly epic philanthropy here. i think its double speak for "tax deductions / good pr" end of the day. its a business. like anything else. contrary to what the PR machine is telling you. the players are their own brand. even if the pga says. those things are one and the same. if the PGA wants to own them even more ( they currently own the players media rights. at the exclusion of the actual player being able turn around and profit from their own image). They can pay the players a minimum stipend. or put them on a contract that guarantees income. even a modest one. with the potential for more with a win. they dont. If we take another step back, turn off ranting ridiculous Chambleee. and look at it objectively. Competition is good. the free market is generally good. and yes. ryder cup etc is long in prestigous history. last i checked, you cant pay your bills and feed your kids with "prestige" so all that lofty ideals stuff goes right out the window. if the PGA wants to own these guys. they should pay them a salary. it aint rocket science man. im not saying SAUDI league good. but im saying PGA whiny child behaviour very bad... bad for them . bad for the game. but not a surprise for me at all. dont belive the hype my friend. the CEOS and others all pull a salary. like any other "non profit" rant over. have a great day. xo
PGA Tour is doing a fantastic job of promoting LIV golf… keep it up boys 👍🏻
🤣
😂😂😂😂😂
You clowns. Tiger!!!!! 1 billion? LIV is what it is!!! MEDIOCRE!!!
PGA tour made 1.1 billion last year , the top players work for them. Look at NBA, imagine a NBA player gets payed only by winning while the NBA makes dollars out of their media rights.
maybe the pga tour wants everyone to see how bad it is? because it is bad. very bad. round 1 was awful.
@@jb-golf007 do you play golf
The pga has never done anything for me so I have no allegiance and the liv tour seams a good watch especially without an ad break every 8 minutes
You’ll have your eyeballs glued to the next PGA event just like you always have! If not nobody’s gonna miss you!
I think that will change eventually. I liked the LIV coverage
@@jerry9535 why are you mad ?? I feel bad for your family it must be unpleasant to live with you.
@@jerry9535 I enjoy watching pro golf. I even watch the LPGA LOL
Why would anyone ever have allegiance to a brand or company or job or career?
The PGA is trying to enforce a global monopoly on the sport of golf...
I look forward to them losing their ass in court...
Are you a lawyer?
This brings to mind Kerry Packer World Series Cricket was a commercial professional cricket competition staged between 1977 and 1979
Court is for the lawyers, ratings and viewership is the real golden ring.
The PGA Tour will not lose anything in court - contract law 101; the LIV players have penned their signatures in agreement to the rules and digressions and cause of the PGA Tour. They all signed a contractual agreement of conditional employment, as all members of the American workforce do - in fact, those LIV players who did not request a release could quite easily see themselves having to pay the PGA Tour for breach of contract. In terms of contract law, the LIV players have no legal footing, as long as they signed on a dotted line.
@@krismm2003 This is my opinion. Even though I am not an attorney I do work with litigators in large law firm market. One guy said "the Saudi's" will win because they have more money. I said back to him that I can guarantee that the PGA works with the best top tier law firms in the country and they will have the top talent working for them.
If the PGA Tour had just said sure, go play 8 tournaments a year, as long as you maintain a playing schedule on the PGA Tour there's no problem, then this LIV stuff would just fizzle out and nobody would care.
not a exactly Nostradamus
Asian Tour would have continued to grow and probably become the equivalent of the DP World Tour, nothing PGA Tour could do to stop that
The PGA tour is a jealous tour you may not have another tour before me
@@DanielSong39 The Asian Tour has a very strong future. Can't wait!!
yes, but they cannot help it. They are destroying themselves.
Indefinite suspension!? PGA will die over this!!! The vindictive always lose!!!!!
Lol! No....
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahaha!!! This made my day... Vindictive always.... Ahahahahahahahahahahaha!! Good one man...
What are you 12 years old? Whatever you do don't drop out of school 🤦♂️
🤣🤣🤣🤣
They’re not being vindictive, they run a business & they made a business decision…as did the players who left. Calm down
If someone offers me double the amount of money for less hours of work, Ill definitely go for it. 72 holes vs 54. Also the golfers that don't make the cut in PGA, don't get paid anything, whereas everybody gets paid in the LIV. The PGA is acting like a dictatorship...
Don't forget u get a sign on bonus worth 10 years of your salary. Who could say no
Yeah, but only handful of players get paid, because it's 48-man competition. If you wanna get to that level, for the Saudi organizers wanting to sign you, you still have to go trough PGA tour. There are no junior tournaments, there is no admission to 200th best player in the world. You are in only if you are a proven player. And they don't give 22-yearold a chance to prove themselves unless they already won n major. Nobody else, but those high profile players gets their fair chance in these events. Everybody still have to climb to their status through PGA events. So it actually does nothing for the sport. It's a small millionaire's private club, nothing more than that. PGA does all the work, and they just want to skim the cream...
@@gibson3lespaul It's called competition, last time I checked people aren't slaves to the PGA.
@@gibson3lespaul please check the world rankings of the players entered in the first event, you might be surprised. ex. Chase Koepka 1543. Graeme McDowell
376. and others.
@@gibson3lespaul Trough, good one. where the farm animals go to eat!
Most business people know that when new competitors come around you've got to pay attention to what they are offering your potential customers. In this case, the "customer" is the player(s) and if their counter offer is to tell the customer "use my business now or never call me back" you'll soon be out of business
Your analogy is a tad bit off. The PGA pays its players. The players are not "customers" they are "employees".
@@bradleynoneofyourbizz5341 going to be free agents now it’s more akin to contracting work now
Sounds like a drug dealer
@@bradleynoneofyourbizz5341 they are not employees, they are contract labor.
@@bradleynoneofyourbizz5341 closer to independent contractors
I love how everyone “Duval” is trying to shame the guys who went and played in the LIV tournament this week. These guys are still good Dudes no matter where they play. This is Golf, not politics.
Don't fool yourself, it's always POLITICS
They even went as far as mentioning 9/11 families sending a letter complaining about the liv tour, did I miss something?!!!!
PGA acting like that spoiled child - " Im taking my ball and going home"! Geez! 🙄
Lol how would the NFL react? Or MLB or a soccer league 🤔 🤣
Exactly
@@TH-cam_is_full_of_trolls NFL, MLB and MLS players aren't independent contractors. They're under contract. PGA players aren't under contract. That's the entire point. If you want to not pay the players a contract, you can't act like you own them when they want to go play somewhere else for more money.
@@That_Cajun_Guy they are pga of America members... they agreed to tos conditions... like anything else... in return, they get national TV coverage, pga retirement benefits, etc... and all the branding hype associated...
@@TH-cam_is_full_of_trolls But you asked how the NFL, MLB, etc would react... and it would be warranted as they PAY their players a contract. PGA does not. There's a difference. Like I previously stated, if you don't want to pay them a contract to play solely for you, acting like you own them when they leave to play somewhere that will is childish.
"What some are willing to do in pursuit of the dollar" coming from the league that changes $22 for a Michelob Ultra at its tournaments, and $100 for shirts. How about the PGA figure out how to appropriately compensate its athletes instead of trying to suspend them for trying to secure a future for their families.
Hahaha exactly! Apparently fedex have accepted hundreds of millions in donations and investment from the Saudi’s too. Literally funded by the same people
@@dbo4506 Seriously. Man, I was hoping Tiger and Rory would have jumped over to LIV as well. Good luck PGA with your biggest names going elsewhere. haha!
Do me a favour, they're all multi millionaires many times over. I have no problem with them playing where they like but lets not pretend it's this or poverty. Frankly it's insulting to anyone who has to graft just to live week to week and it's completely disingenuous. This bollocks about providing for their families from Westwood and Poulter, who are worth between 80 and 100 million between them, is a joke. Just say you want to milk as much as you can from the game before you retire and I'll retain a little respect.
They have by charging $22 for a Michelle Ultra
here is an idea if players don't like the prize pool find another tour to play on, nobody is forced to play on the pga tour.
Losing Mickelson, DJ and Sergio was just the first shot across the bow. When you add in DeChambeau, Patrick Reed, Ricky Fowler, Bubba Watson and Brooks Koepka you've got a real turf war on your hands. And if Justin Thomas and Rory make the jump...well then shit just got real. Grab your popcorn and a comfortable seat because this LIV tour is here to stay; like it or not.
only a matter of time
Rory is the most gutless mindless sheep, who serves the elitists. JT said one three letter word under his breath, leading to his sponsor world being turned upside down. Neither is leaving the pga!
JT and Rory sound like they'll stick around in the PGA even if they're the only two guys playing.
Saudi Arabia finances al-Qaeda, so keep watching. Not much different than watching the 1936 German Olympics. It’s great to give money to a country that put people in planes that took down the World Trade Center buildings. Like it or not, you’re helping to fund terrorism if you watch this shit. And who cares if the PGA tour suspends the players, people are going to cry over million dollar athletes not being allowed to play in a tour. Society is a joke now.
@@MoneyIsSilver someones got to polish tigers shaft
The PGA needs some competition! They want to be the only game in town, and expect their players to be good little slaves. When was the last time the PGA was audited? An organization that claims to be nonprofit but rakes in the money they do, should have yearly audits.
Non profit in the most expensive sport in the world that’s funny
@@hoosiernative9668 NFL is non profit.
@@Gnofg yOu ArE SuPPosSed tO Type LIkE ThIS FoR Sarcasm. Or are you a Dolt?
@@Gnofg 🤣🤣
Slaves😂😂
I learned in grade school that in a competitive capitalist world more choices is better for the consumer. PGA + LIV = better for golf community.
Both the PGA and LIV do nothing for the average golfer except drive up the price of equipment thanks to insane endorsement money, which is now wholly unaffordable for many.
I have no interest in third grade golf tournaments, which is about all that the LIV events amount to. There is zero prestige attached to the highly overpaid LIV circus.
Not so good for the community of gays, women seeking human rights, journalists, and anyone else dissenting against MBS and the Saudis. Even a grade schooler could understand that.
@@platypusjonesy2757 wonder why US still buy oil and sell them weapons.... Golfing world should surely step up if American govt can't. Blood is in the hands of Phil Mickelson
@@danmardavdyl Have you ever read a history book? You think the US government isn't shady as hell? Two wrongs don't make a right. Mickelson is still wrong, no matter what brush you'd like to paint it with.
Why would anybody leave a job that you have to pay your own travel fee and work two days to miss a cut and not get a paycheck?? This is all about the top guys and does nothing for the bottom rung of the ladder.
Phil was deeply criticized but was spot on. This will end up changing things sooner than later. The PGA takes in Billions and members will see a better model soon. That is brought on thru good competition
The PGA would have been better off allowing the players to choose without penalty. Provide a superior product and you don't have to worry about competition. This move makes them seem bitter and worried about the LIV tour.
On the other hand, from the day they threatened sanctions, they had to follow through with them.
Ok, so an NHL player gets an offer for more money to play in European League. I’d say good bye and good luck with that but we won’t continue to pay your very generous salary and benefits.
@@Petertrottierrealtor but the NHL doesn't "indefinitely" suspend them...
The L1V is a 48 man play the same guys every week
@@Petertrottierrealtor if you play in the NHL you make a lot of money. It's the too league and even the 4th line gets hundreds of thousands of dollars.
PGA most players lose money when they go to tournament
Agree
I’ve grabbed so much popcorn. Looking forward to see these circumstances evolve, on both sides.
What brand popcorn? And is it old fashion, the way you make it, or microwave popcorn?
PGA only worries about its control and power over the players and their events. Plain and simple.
That is what employers do. Those who do not like it can leave. Why do you even care? You do not live their lifestyle and you should say the same about Mc Donalds employees who complain about their jobs. That is on your level.
@@thetruthfornow6045 The PGA is not their employer. It doesn't pay just because your there. You don't make the cut, tough shit. It brings performers to it's stage. Now if the player signed a contract, then I could see the PGA' s side. Players are independent workers. They go where the money is.
@@mikemcdonald9337 okay they left and went for the money. We all leave jobs at some point for more money. But once we leave there is no looking back. The reason they made so much money is because the PGA is a top shelf product. They secure the best courses and improve on them. That costs money. If the PGA was rinky dink viewers would not be watching and the purses would be like the Hogan tour or whatever they are calling the tour below. Pros who graduate to the PGA are in awe of the first class treatment and the organization of the PGA. That takes money.
False
@@thetruthfornow6045 so the government should have just let southwestern Bell monopolize everything back in the day. Whoever you work for, that should be the only company in that form of business. With that thought in mind, there would only have been Apple and no Microsoft.
For those who said that playing the PGA Tour is not for money...yah if they cut the prize to 1/10th, let's see how many top players will stay. The Tour simply can't stand another tour paying more prizes...
Lol you don't understand golf or sports... the hall of fame doesn't give a shit about how many liv tournaments you win
@@TH-cam_is_full_of_trolls These things can turn on a dime, 10 years from now people might not care about who wins the Masters
The thing is you just don't know
@@DanielSong39 yes yes you do know.... nobody gives a shit about winning a golf tournament (as replacement for a major) that has a 10 year history and doesn't have a tradition of drawing the world's greatest players... golf like any sport is built on history and traditions... not how much money the Arabs pay you
@@DanielSong39 That is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard, the masters has way too much historical significance for golfers to stop caring about it lmao.
@Thomas Woodward paid entries? Who exactly is that?
JT must have gotten a check from the PGA… don’t know how he’s become the spokes person for the PGA. Looking forward to more guys leaving the PGA.
So they can play maybe 6-8 tournaments a year? Not gonna happen... and least not for the young guns. LIV may get a few more on the downhill side of their careers like the 12 or so that left... maybe.
JT said "everybody has a number" - i wonder what his number is?
JT has always been a shill
He sucks up to Tiger too
So the PGA tour spends the week in Canada, where the prime minster, trampled their citizens right to peacefully protest by: physical abuse, financial threats, trampled by horses, and arrests for peaceful protests. Sounds like a fascist state to me. Never heard any outrage by the golf channel, the pga tour, and the pga players!
Not one PGA Tour player had to answer questions about human rights violations committed by Canada
All I see coming of this is the PGA having to walk back these sanctions. More and more players are going to start the move over to LIV. As soon as LIV lands even one young budding superstar, it’s over for the PGA. They have no ground to stand on other than the “legacy” of the tour and majors.
The PGA won't budge. They don't have to. You are wrong.
Since you have the power of clairvoyance and can predict the future, would you mind giving me the next jackpot winning PowerBall number. I could use the extra $239 million dollars. Thanks.
@@majscrap2629 hahaha the flood gates are about to open mate. They will budge or they’ll lose the integrity of their product because they’re going to lose a host of top 50 players.
The pga is only trying to protect their business as any would. These players are only making the move for $. All the history and legacy will disappear. The only thing left for golf will be $ matches that very few will be interested of . It’s sad that the pga will possibly be ended by a brutal regime with tons of $ only trying to improve their image. Pga golf is the best in the world that all of these guys dreamed of joining as kids .
@@dbo4506 not really. Those LIV events don't have official world golf ranking points. So as these guys play in LIV they lose ranking points. After while none of them will be ranked inside the top 100 in the world. The masters invites the top 50, PGA tour winners, previous masters winners. These guys will eventually lose out chasing a quick buck. Flood gates. Not so much its only 48 players that's it. These players will forever have a shit stain on their reputation. It's all going to come down to majors and whether or not the Saudis make money. Make no mistake they don't want to just willy nilly hand out a few hundred million without an opportunity to make it back and then some. They need a TV deal in the US and sponsors, otherwise it will fail
You can play the PGA tour or the European tour or the Asian tour or the Japan tour or maybe the Korean tour but not the LIV tour !
The PGA Tour will probably try to cut off Asian Tour too. They're owned by LIV Investments
It’s only a game of golf and they are professional players, they should have the opportunity to play anywhere they choose. Does the PGA own players ??? maybe their membership is archaic and needs to be brought up to date. Maybe both parties are thinking money money money.
Yes, the pga tour owns the players media rights
@@matttran4431 no.
WHO IS LOOKING AFTER ALL THEIR PLAYERS ? WHO HAS NO CUT ?
Like US foreign politics, you are with us or you are sanctioned
Well PGA is an association and they are member of that association. I don't know about you, but if I want to be part of some club, I usually follow their rules. And these player freely decided (as you put it yourself) they will play for another association, breaking the rules of their previous association. And this association has every right to deny them participation in the events that they organize. Kind of simple if you think about it...
“Greed is a terrible attribute. Now if you don’t mind we’re going to go back to our everyday attributes, which are bullying, threatening, dictating, and monopolizing.”
-The PGA Tour
Sounds like the Saudi Government.
@@batswbennett Yep, both the Saudi government and the PGA Tour.
@@WinstonSmith24LIV. If this was 1944, and Gene Sarazen, Sam Snead and Byron Nelson all played for big bucks on the Third Reich Tour.
@@batswbennett .....Was America smitten with Nazis too? I don't think that's a very good analogy.
The PGA Tour does not own “the players” they qualify and work their asses off to make the tour and play. i have much respect for what the PGA Tour has done for golf etc.. but did the Canadian tour ban Mike Wier when he made the PGA Tour? Did the European tour banned Rory, Lee Westwood and many others for coming to America to play? Absolutely not because they knew if and when Rory or others made an appearance back in their country or played a tournament on the European tour that event would see more spectators and get more coverage than ever. If I was a tour player the response and actions of the PGA would really make me rethink my commitment and furthermore their commitment to the players who represent and made the PGA Tour what it is. LIV is good for golf, the PGA should be happy and maybe look at the positive expansion of the game instead of the dollars or hurt to their image
Just wait for the players to criticize the royal family or Saudi Arabia.They may be the next Khashoggi.LIV golf is dirty money,may be fatal.
@@larrymosher5045 your ivory tower will keep you safe, don't worry :)
@@larrymosher5045 The US government has killed countless innocents and destroyed communities by starting proxy wars across the planet to line the pockets of politicians and war profiteers. But somehow we have some sort of moral highground over Saudi Arabia? This is laughable. Let's also point out all of the PGA merchandise that's manufactured in China, the bastion of human rights. While we're at it, let's talk about all of the imported oil that we buy from Saudi Arabia. Why do folks keep calling LIV golf the "Saudi backed" golf league. If the Saudis were funding an orphanage or a cancer research facility, would everyone be tacking "Saudi backed" on the front of it? This is nothing but defamatory PGA propaganda.
Asking for a friend can y’all help me with the top 10 in golf right now? Help please just want to know. 😃
@@madisonmathews9849 I don’t think it’s easy to know anymore since most of the top players stats will be scrubbed due to the ban. You should be able to see top players according to the PGA website though. Just note due to PGA monopoly the stats may not reflect every golfer in the world.
It’s sickening to hear the PGA whine about this. Players have been complaining for years about not making the cut, not getting paid for appearing, Pro-Am’s, travel and long work weeks and they haven’t addressed it. Guess what? Somebody else was listening! The cry baby announcers on XM radio are sickening too. If someone walked into their office today and said “I’m going to pay you as much money next year as you have made in the last 15”
They would be gone in a second! Those that don’t leave shouldn’t whine either, they just eliminated 48 players from the next cut line. Those on the mini tour should be ecstatic! Moving up the ladder! NEXT 48 UP BOYS, LETS GO MAKE SOME MONEY!
How dare someone consider other employment
Hahahahaha - this cracked me up! Good one!
I find it amazing that a player deciding to play 8 events and not on Sundays gets told that they are not thinking about their families.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
That's EXACTLY who are they thinking about vs 30 events all away from home.
Go laugh at your own jokes 🙄
LIV will fly them home on Sundays jn private jets .
I’m starting to wonder about if PGA charitable tax free status is a shell, weird to see a charity being draconian
You got it! ALL about their familie$$$
It’s funny how a league that doesn’t guarantee anything to its players acts like the players owe them loyalty. Give me a break. I don’t want to hear anything about the Saudi’s either. Where is your President at right now. He’s going to break bread with the Crown Prince. We as Americans have been in business/trade with the Saudi’s for decades.
The PGA has been able to operate without any competition for decades and they’ve taken advantage of that status. The PGA has been on the wrong side of history time and time again.
@@jacobjorgenson9285 The PGA is not perfect but it does contribute to charities. LIV does execute gay people. That is pretty even.,
PGA Tour didn’t allow releases because they’re afraid of competition.
I’m glad LIV exists but let’s not pretend it’s realistic for any business to hand a competitor “assets” to compete for their market share.
Bollox
@@Matt-cr4vv feck the human rights eh 🙄
The PGA Tour has been saying for a long time now that they want to see the game of golf expand globally. Congratulations. Your dreams are coming to fruition. Take a bow.
Good luck on the Bonesaw tour Phil. Just remember not to criticize the prince or you’ll have an appointment at the embassy
PGAs conduct is against the basic tenets of Fairplay in golf. It's acting like a cabalistic monopoly.
Not really. A monopoly would be the PGA filing injunctions to prevent players from choosing to play anywhere else. Telling players that make that choice to go elsewhere that they aren’t welcome to play for you while playing for a competition is fairly capitalistic in nature. Letting players play both would likely rank the tour, as without some downside risk nothing would be there to stop every top player from playing in LIV and making the PGA obsolete.
@@Matt-cr4vv not true. Why do u think the bold print suspended indefinitely? They are stating if you play for LIV and if that league fails, your career is over. U can't ever come back to PGA. That is not free market. That is what someone who owns the whole market would say.
If the aim of being a professional golfer is to get paid, then these LIV blokes just won.
How pathetic for "The Tour" to suspend them. They're supposed to be growing the game, and as far as I can tell, LIV just grew the game and gave more opportunity to golfers than the PGA Tour have done in a while.
Maybe work WITH them and not against them then everyone can win!?
US OPEN next week. Please oh please liv put your all knowing tournament on tv. 😂😂🖕🏻🖕🏻😂🖕🏻🖕🏻😂🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻🖕🏻
There's guys that play on the PGA Tour and the European Tour? What's different about LIV Golf?
who cares what the pga says it just proves they are all about themselves full credit to the players and LIV
It’s interesting - the argument about human rights and the Saudis being the reason why these golfers shouldn’t participate. China has MUCH worse human rights issues, genocide in fact, however the PGA and other sports welcome their sports people, and we all still buy stuff made in China! - a bit hypocritical don’t you think?
Also I believe that it’s good for golf. The 50 plus golfers leaving the PGA will give an opportunity to 50 plus up and coming future stars to get into touring golf earlier.
I 100% agree. if they're using the human rights card they need to direct their attention to the government. and ask why they never imposed any sanctions after the murder of Khashoggi and leave the players out of it
China produces too many golf products for dirt cheap. That would mess up their business model if they messed with china. They don’t want to cut into their own profits. 👀
Mass shootings in America is way bigger problem than Human Rights in Saudi if u ask me.
@@MsCh1mp Mass shootings, LOL. Every day people shoot each other in cities around the nation but mass shootings are the problem? No one cares when there are 100+ shootings in big cities around the country each and every month. But mass shootings are the real problem huh? It’s violence that is the problem. People wanting to kill each other and we ignore this problem. We ignore small atrocities which turn into large atrocities, then finally people speak up. Maybe start with the everyday killings and murderers then we might actually get somewhere. People do speak out against China, in fact Trump did just that and he was called xenophobic.
People in the USA complaining about human rights violations committed by China and Saudi Arabia, LOL
DJ got a exemption earlier this year from the pga to play in Saudi Arabia….sooooooo what are we doing. Oh side note, the pga has a WGC in china. Just saying
Golfers should be allowed to play wherever they want. The Pga could say that you have to compete in this number of events, but not suspend them. Why can't we hear from the guys that this will effect? Cover the LIV tour as well. You are the golf channel, not the pga channel.
I think they are the PGA channel. It's like CNN is liberal and Fox News is conservative. They've taken their side already.
The PGA tour needs these players a hell of a lot more than they need them. There are plenty of tours. I honestly hope more players follow and leave these "dedicated" pga players with something to think about when hardly any one is playing on the PGA tour.
That will never happen. Too much history with the pga tour in golf, and the courses and events that hold major significance all fall within the pga tour.
@@Jonathan-cz4ky I hear ya...I just never use the N word! Also....money talks! When more players jump ship, the PGA tour will adjust their thinking! Until then...EFFF the pga tour!
David Duval must be wearing clown shoes. “I wonder if any thought has ever gone in to the examples you set for your wife and children…” GTFOH 🤡
No, you GTFOH. You can't seem to wrap your head around the idea that supporting a government that murders journalists, women seeking human rights, gays, and anyone else with dissenting thought against MBS and the Saudis. Or maybe you simply lack any sort of morality system. It's not complicated. You just don't give a shit because it doesn't effect anyone you care about directly. What size clown shoes do you wear?
you know what i love this guy even tho i like LIV hes honest and truthfull in his answers and you can tell by the quick response
I keep reading and hearing
"the players are doing what's best for them"
Well,,,,, the PGA is now doing what's best for THEM. YOUR FIRED!!!!
They gave warning to the golfers leaving. And they left anyway.
I'm reminded of when Air Traffic controllers when on strike in 1981.
President Reagan told them to return to work or be terminated. They didn't and they we're Terminated!!!!
I applaud 👏 the PGA for keep their promise.
I officially suspend being a fan of the PGA. and it’s players.
You’d think they were criminals
No, but they have associated themselves with a criminal regime. In the current climate these golfers had an opportunity to stand up to a corrupt regime but instead they sold themselves out. Very disappointing.
@@barryosullivan1486 they are just playing golf mate. As if America isn’t doing trade with countries with what we call shady. The PGA isn’t happy about competition
@@phillnavin1212 and being paid in blood money. I am not saying the PGA is perfect and I support competition but sure this is wrong. A corrupt, murderous regime backing a new tour can't be the way forward.
@@barryosullivan1486 yet America & Saudi Arabia are large traders……. Why is that fine, yet a PGA member not allowed to play in a golf tournament. Seems hypocritical. Why are Russian tennis players allowed to play in US tournaments when war crimes are being made by their country.
@@barryosullivan1486 they allowed a tournament in Saudi Arabia, have an event in China, you're likely using a Chinese iPhone and using Arabian oil. Imagine thinking that America doesn't have blood on their own hands (was slavery conveniently forgotten about or killing native americans). Pretty hypocritical...
All suspended players can join the DP World Tour when not playing on the Liv Tour and Majors. Plus not all players have broken the rules as some have resigned from the PGA Tour in advance. I'm concerned that some comments made by journalists and others could be considered defamatory.
I'd love for the suspended players win a multimillion dollar lawsuit against PGA for restriction of trade. As long as they play the minimum required tournaments and are good enough to earn enough to keep PGA cards, what's the problem?
If the PGA were truly comfortable with their position on the golf viewer totem pole, they wouldn't be lashing out. They are injured already and perhaps may be on life support if LIV catches fire.
Injured??😅 From what? A dozen golfers past their prime, on their downhill side of their career jumping ship? Don't really have much of a head for business do you?😅
Wouldn’t go that far.
But in a league that generates $1.5B in revenue you can’t monetarily compete with an entity with a bottomless pit of cash that allows itself to pay guys 9 figure deals just to join. But I don’t see them crumbling with the percentage of guys who want to stay.
@@ForsakenWar You think Bryson Dechambeau is on the downhill side of his career?
Really?
BTW; I did watch the LIV coverage of the London Invitational and guess what: no molesting add-breaks every 7 minutes, pure and simple golf. That’s what I like…
they don't have TV deals yet
@@roycedot I believe it was on TH-cam streaming, their own website and a few other places as well.
A question to those who know, what "tournament regulations" exactly are being referred to? Because what about the people that play both DP world and PGA tournaments? Wouldn't any co-sanctioning of events in any case contravene these regulations? OR does it only count for tours or events that might compete with PGA on a fair footing?
The PGA tour grant releases for their players to play European tour events. When the players asked to play the LIV event the tour declined the release
You have to have permission from the tour to play another event. These players either got denied or just didn’t ask.
@F Democrats Because that is in the rules that they sign when they become a member. see it is not that hard. Of course for Republicans the English language is hard to understand.
Most of the west seems a feudal dictatorship these days....
@@Gnofg Yes but I don't think it's quite that simple, they are independent contractors, there will be some interesting legal battles that come out of this. There are limits to what companies can dictate and control when it comes to a contract employee. Nobody has ever really challenged it before with the PGA, but it sounds like they will now. Especially in the case of Mickelson who is a lifetime PGA tour member, this means that he's not required to play a single PGA tour even to keep his membership. How can they dictate to him what he's doing when he's not playing? The guys that are not life time members are required to play 15 events per year to keep their membership, that is something that is likely enforceable by the PGA.
It would be so funny if RORY made the change to LIV… he’s definitely getting low key offers from them… So is Ricky… and probably a hand full of others… this is great…
Rorys like a little muppet for the Pga 🤣😂
i dont think Liv would want him.Lol
I would bet that there are some shady deals going on to keep certain players in the PGA NDA's and everything.
@@deltax1204 110 % but the pgas reputation is destroyed now as to what some of tbe players have said controling them etc
@@davidchipman7612 Or maybe Rory just has morals and values that he isn't willing to sacrifice for some extra money when he's already rich. Your "two wrongs make a right" argument is weak and tired. "Well the NBA is in bed with China!"...as if that somehow makes taking Saudi money ok. The NBA is just as complicit for doing what they do. MBS and the Saudis kill journalists, gays, and women who seek the same rights you sure as hell would demand for your own wives, daughters, sisters, mothers, etc. But you don't give a shit because it's not effecting the people you care about. So who cares, right? Out of sight, out of mind. They're trying to cover all that up by putting on big sporting events and you can't wait to buy in. I could give a shit about golf, really. But there's right, and then there's wrong. It's sad to see so many people on here with the mindset of "Well, the world is already on fire, what's a little more gasoline gonna hurt if I come out ahead in the end." Love that. Way to be a part of the problem guys. 👏👏👏
Talk about a kiss up Rory 😂
Sounds like you're working for the Saudis JD??🤔😅
As he wears his Nike hat..oh the hypocrisy
the PGA is fighting to maintain the monopoly of golf around the world. It's just normal for them to belittle the competition. When they started forcing players to play 15 (or so) tournaments per year, and not only majors and big money tournaments, I knew it was just a matter of time. The LIV tour is right on cue and more players will be joining it soon.
You are 💯 right. More money less work absolutely no brainer🤑
It’s tough running a monopoly. Keeping control of all these rogue golfers is tough. I think any entertaining golf is good for the game no matter what tour or series it is.
Lol wut
Letting those POS murdering Saudi princes have a hand in our beloved game isn't good for it imo
You must've not watched the first round today... boring as hell. Turned it after 30 mins...
@@ForsakenWar how many run of the mill pga events are you watching? Because they are all boring as hell, every single one of them.
PGA Tour screwed this up, I’ll be watching the LIV tourneys moving forward.
This is exactly why players are leaving PGA Tour, egotistical management within PGA tour
LIV tourneys are painful to watch. It’s like a circus sideshow.
We will see what happens when the gimmick wears off and these garbage ass player fields produce shitty golf if you won’t flip the channel when a major is on !
Go ahead and watch that third rate tour funded with blood money. It will be funny if the Masters and PGA Championship ban them as well.
@@earnwithhearn180 There's only been one! Give it some time.. I'm sure your first time wasn't something to write home about!
When the PGA tour recognizes that youtubers like Not A Scratch Golfer, Rick Schiels, Peter Finch, etc. are tremendous for the growth of the sport (because they really are) I don't think we can trust the PGA really cares about growing the sport. This is going to be a crazy opinion to some but they remind me of the promoters and sanctioning body of Supercross and Motocross...heavy hitters that aren't doing much to actually grow the sport but to rather get more money.
This all being said, I don't believe the Saudi's give a crap about the sport either...they're opportunists....so it's a little disingenuous to say Liv is "good for the sport."....it will remain to be seen.
Don't disagree with your views on what's best for the sport in principle, but I'm not sure about their relevance in this specific situation, which really boils down to a contractual dispute (legally, a potential tort - I'm sure that's coming).
So I'm also not sure what the role, good or otherwise, of club pro TH-camr coaches like Rick Shiels have to do with any of this in those terms. The PGA has its weaknesses for sure, but that's not what this is really about. This is Packer-like attempted coup.
I certainly agree with your last points.
Saudi don’t care, but Greg cares and he’s using that money to grow it
LIV is Roman numerals for mediocre!!!
The AMA and FIM suck balls.
@TheRickShielsGolfShow is fantastic
Didn’t Rory opt to not carry a PGA tour card so he can play on the European tour longer?
No
Im not sure why Rory is bashing LIV. If LIV takes 10 or 15 more top players, he might have a chance to actually win a PGA event for the first time in over a year 😂
@@Jrocc811 Fun fact; Rory hasn't won a major in 8 years.
??? The European tour is run by the PGA too, a separate card to play but nothing stops players playing both.
Like every industry, competition is good for quality of overall product.. PGA may be scared but golf fans should be pumped
Not when funded with blood money
@@therookiemistake9714 believe it or not many corporate services / products we use here in the US are funded by saudis (I.e. Boeing, Facebook, Disney, Starbucks, and etc.). If you are so conscious about “blood money”, suggest you literally stop using technology and current products and time travel to the 70-80’s…
@@therookiemistake9714 is thinking you know about the money.
@@yungheehong5613 but supporting over the hill golfers who are paid millions… thats not a sport
@@therookiemistake9714 you gotta start the league from somewhere… I think you are missing the point here, all these sports leagues get complacent with their fans because there is no competitive threat which last time I checked, is a huge anti trust problem… if you want to golf to flourish like I do, you want to see pga and LIV come up with more creative ways to present their product for consumers like us. What’s the problem with that? LIV may start with washed up players but once other big name golfers see their value, they will jump ships and pga will be forced to get creative too
When professional golfers play in the PGA they are independent contractors. When they play in LIV they are employees.
Players should just stfo of the subject and play golf. PGA is making a fool of itself.
No different than any other professional sports. You can only play in one league at a time.
I welcome LIV, finally some competition in golf
So you are ok with some of people behind it
@@timcomley3241 Tim , your president soon will be going to S Arabia begging the saudis to give more oil to the free world. So are you ok with this ?
I love Rory and Nike, but the big swoosh on his cap has violated human rights in the race for #1.
If the golfers are truly independent contractors as they claim to be, then the PGA has every right to terminate their contracts if they choose to move to help a competitor. Whether it is a good business decision or not remains to be seen.
I THINK THERE IS CLEAR EVIDENCE ALREADY, $25M PER TOURNAMENT WORTH
It’s not a contract, it’s a membership. The PGA tour has had a monopoly on pro golf for decades. Looks to me like the PGA is afraid of some competition.
@@madD8845 The PGA is more than the men's league. It is the development tours, Korn Ferry, LPG and Seniors. They get the venues, sponsorships and TV contracts. Liv does nothing to support the entire golfing community.
Every independent contractor still has regulations to follow! One of the regulations on the pga tour is they are not allowed to play conflicting events ie Canadian open is this week but the liv players are playing in london
@@madD8845 It was the players that said they were independent contractors not me or the PGA. You can't have it both ways. If they are members of the club...then they should follow the rules of the club. If they are independent contractors then they abide by the rules for those they contract with. L(iv) golf has rules too...lets see what happens when they violate those.
They chose to work for murderous gangsters.
Of course they should be criticized.
I did the math out earlier. If the PGA (based on revenue/number of players) paid their members the same as the NBA, all players would have a minimum of $500k/year salary.
PGA is non profit
@@jacobjorgenson9285 I was told NFL is also nonprofit.
You mean if they don't pay any of their employees of course? And don't organize a single tournament of course? And don't give anything to charities or youth competitions? And you accounted to all 29,000 members in the US and other ones that are international members as well, of course? I mean I got a significantly different number, but who cares, right... You are just making a point.
@@Eqnotalent the teams pay the players not the nfl
@@gibson3lespaul are you a tax accountant
Very disappointing that so many golfers would sell out in this manner. Not surprised at Mickelson or Norman as they come across as very shallow individuals but the others have let themselves down very badly. Talk about doing anything for money.
It's so great to see with every interview these guys get a little less cocky about how they're not worried. These company Men are about to be left behind and I love it
I doubt Rory ($220M net worth) is worried.
@@markanderson7833 Phil made that this week.But shouldn't be worried bout the money but the so called prestige of winning on tour.It was all fun and games when they just had Phil to go after now they are scared
Where can I watch the LIV tournaments?
I kind of funny when PGA talking about human rights play where they want is human rights PGA doesn't control the world of golf tournaments
A month ago I thought LIV would be a flop. How the pendulum has swung...
JT and Rory acting like they don't care about money
What will this look like a year from now?
How is the PGA Tour a 501C? MLB and NFL use to have this status, they lost it. NBA never had it probably because historically among the NFL, MLB and NBA, the NBA was always historically more the niche sport. Golf because it has always done charity in the past would historically be a 501C. But today, are they really a 501C? How many 501C's have Pension plans like the PGA has?
Most well-established 501C organizations have pension plans - there are many types of 501C structures.
@@krismm2003 Well these would be more of 401 or 403 type plans, not Defined Benefit plans. The Pension plan would have to be more of a Defined Contribution plan, with the employees of the 501C making a contribution from their own earnings and the 501C being set up to spend some of the money it raised on employee pension plans i.e. make a matching contribution to the employees plan.
So is the PGA a private 501C or more of a Public 501C. Private ones like Bill Gates 501C rely on funding from a few big time wealthy donors (himself included). Pubic 501C's like Universities are different and have different requirements on how their money can be spent. I have read best practices to stay true to mission and not get into the IRS crosshair is to spend 75% of revenues on programs/mission and 25% on Administrative costs, so pension costs would be included therefore within the Admin costs.
Remember, at one time the NFL and MLB had 501C status, they lost it. Of course, the MLB and NFL had Labor Unions, signed contracts to play for their respective teams, which in substance made them more like businesses, while they in form were 501C's. The PGA Tour does not have employees/labor (the PGA tour members are 1099 Independent contractors not W2 employees) nor do the PGA tour players have a labor union. Seems like the PGA tour is acting more like the MLB and NFL treating the PGA tour players as W2 employees, who sign contracts.
Phil Mickelson "earned" lifetime exemption on the PGA tour with 45 wins. If he is a 1099 Independent Contractor, he should be able to go play whatever Tournament he wants, if the Sponsor of the Tournament wants him to play in it.
Personally, I think the PGA Tour while in legal form is structured as a 501C, is in substance more like a business. This to me seems very similar to the NCAA and NIL situation, Universities under the guise of being 501C's and NCAA athletes deemed amateurs while the Schools, Coaches, TV networks, make billions of dollars.
they give a sizable amount to charities and do community outreach programs, etc. Sports Illustrated estimated PGA gave close to $3billion so far.
@@roycedot I agree they do charitable work. And I think that is great.
But they act like PGA tour players signed contracts to play with the PGA tour? While the PGA Tour has Pension plans like the other professional sports (MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA), the PGA tour players do not have a players Union. All of those players that are signed by those other professional teams get a contract to play and they have labor unions. They get paid as W2 employees. PGA tour players are paid as 1099 Independent contractors. So while in Legal Form the PGA is a 501C, their business model is in substance not a 501C and more like a private business. In many ways, I see the PGA tour as being similar to the NCAA and Universities with big time sports programs, and in this case I am talking about Football and Men's Basketball. Universities are 501C's and the NCAA have operated revenue producing sports, i.e. March Madness (Final Four) NCAA Mens BB tournament and big-time Power 5 college football under the guise of amateurism. SCOTUS 9-0!!! ruled that the no organization in America could operate like NCAA sports and ruled that NCAA athletes should be able to profit off their Name, Image and Likeness (NIL) and we now have that going one. I predict that big-time NCAA "Mens" sports that operate and make a profit are going to split off. Players that play big-time Men's college basketball and football are going to get paid salaries to play (with some salary cap similar to Pro sports) and the players themselves will be able to go to the market and negotiate NIL deals at market rates.
If the PGA tour wants the best players to play, negotiate contracts with the players. Sign them to 3-5 year deals with fixed salary, bonuses, etc and of course the players make what they can earn by their play. Players that don't pan out, when their contract ends, they may no longer be on contract with the tour and they have to back and earn their tour card. In my view, all players that are on the Tour should get the cost of attendance (lodging, Meals and travel). I would think players like Tiger and Phil in their prime would have been able to sign to the PGA tour but put in their contracts they have the right to go play 1 event on the Asian Tour, 1 in Europe and 1 in the Middle East, if they choose, for a lucrative appearance fee without impacting their status on the PGA tour. Some players, maybe like Jordan, JT, Rory might sign to only play exclusively on the PGA tour. Fine.
PGA Tour presses the self destruct button
So what happens to someone who is not a member of the PGA tour and plays in Liv golf? will they be allowed to later go to Qschool to try to earn a card?
No, Qschool is part of PGA, they are prob blacklisted and suspended PGA membership
It seems like Rory has an opinion on most everything and has an open mouth policy. Everything from US politics to LIV. My respect for him has faded
Well I would rather not play for an association that think they own you, all the players that went to liv are probably thinking “well. Screw you then” 😂 I for one think the liv tour is a well needed modernised approach to the game to get more people involved, it’s exciting and team based which I think will approve to a bigger variety of younger audience
More people involved? It's 48 top tier players. No chance for anybody to get into this league unless they prove them selves through what? PGA tour events of course. Which PGA organizes... On all levels, not only top-tier level. Giving the same chance to everybody. While LIV gives the same chance only to 48 players...
I wonder if all the Euros who can't win by themselves for decades at a time like the $$ or the team thing more. God knows IP & LW made the correct decision. Good luck chaps!
@@gibson3lespaul not directly involved I apologise, I mean in terms of interest, people who don’t watch golf now will watch this
Liv Golf media is superior to the Golf channel and the networks. Not forced to use silly words and descriptions like penalty area, teeing ground , putting surface. Good to hear pins, greens, water, 3 woods, back on the tee. Great job by a strong staff of announcers and commentators on the LIV tour. Great presentation. I thought the networks lost it. Especially CBS. This was confirmation. Love Dottie, Maltbie, Azinger, a couple others . Send the rest home.
Well done PGA
Is it just me, or does this make you think less of the PGA?
Thumbs up if you support LIV golf tour.
Rory proud of his $200 million dollar Nike deal and all of China's atrocities lol.
I'm not even interested in watching the PGA tours now, considering how they have acted like a bunch of petulant children just because someone finally threatened their monopoly.
Like watching Us foreign politics “you are with us or against us” no middle ground or you will be sanctioned
I agree, at first I didn’t think much about this, then I saw how the PGA reacted, golf channel “analysts” reacted and I started paying attention. The virtue signaling act like they care about Saudi Arabia and human rights, where have they been for the last 50 years? Now that Phil left…he has to answer for that stuff? The condescending attitude of people saying it’s just “for the money” and it’s selfish. Absolutely it is, so what? Good for them. If they can make more money, working less and still enjoy the sport they love, great. They owe nobody anything…except to be the best person for their family.
I saw a pga official mentioning how families of 9/11 are upset about the LIV tour, European tour have been going to Saudi for years but haven't heard such outrage from them about it.
It's definitely time for some competition. I'm glad for Liv.
Maybe they can compete again each other
Thats what the PGA is afraid of.
Much respect for the people that spoke in this TH-cam.
Loyalty is a great quality...
Until you get 100 million up front.
Yes. Loyalty to the game and rules of golf not the pga.
You must been at the same job for past 35 years
@@abrahamlokoski4475 Excellent. That's the bottom line.
The PGA is only loyal to money. If they go gave a crap about the players, no one would be leaving.
The PGA tour is too greedy if you're in the tournament and you don't make the cut the pros make zero while they still have all the expenses. While the PGA tour uses the pros play on TV. The PGA tour makes over a billion dollars from TV rights, how much of that did they pay out to the pros. I thought they were supposed to be a non-profit. What are they doing with all the money that they're hoarding from the players? They have a huge endowment. Yet they charge over $5,000 from the young kids doing q School. PGA tour is ridiculously greedy.
Well stated David Duvall ! i always liked him... like him even more now
HE"S A PGA PUPPET
@@killerangel4613 if u knew anything about duval u would respect his opinion
@@killerangel4613 as opposed to a 9/11 apologist?
These 17 players are effectively launching their own competing tour. Hell, no, you can't stay a PGA member while you attempt to ruin it.
Feed you family guys and don't regret It. You made it this far so play for money, then When you make enough to sit comfortably, then play for your legacy.
Yea.... about that legacy...😅
Or gamble it away, spit in the cup, & put the final nail in the coffin holding their "legacy"..
I have no plans to watch LIV golf. It's just exhibition golf. Have no interest what so ever.
As much as I despise Norman, these golfers are independent contractors. They should play where they wish…or not, for whatever reasons.
Tiger only declined cause he see's a weak field in future majors. If he was 22, he make 2 billion dollars with LIV. Let's stop treating golfers like their not in it for the money. Zero judgment to get the bag of GUARANTEED cash!
you know this because
Pga tour in trouble…😂🤷🏼♂️
Big Time. Get ready for the Lawyers to start making their $money$.
Lol! No....
Perhaps time for a federal anti-trust lawsuit against the PGA.
What an absurd statement.
Reading the comments here, I suspect that LIV has adopted the paid comments or bots approach in an effort to lift the esteem in which its third grade golf events are held by the public. No more than a curiosity at the start, but I can't see holding the interest of the public when you look at the quality of players that are participating.
Exactly... I watched 30 mins and had to turn it. It was like watching the Korn Ferry tour with an occasional appearance by a PGA player on the downhill side of their career😅
I am for the players and am not a bot or paid. I am a golfer and golf is a job for these players. I get them going for the paycheck. If the PGA changes to a for profit company, they can start paying players to show up also. They have saved 200-300 million in taxes by being a non profit. That decision helps the PGA , not the golfers. This is a business and the players have to make whatever business decision is best for them and their families.
@@batsonelectronics You make it sound as if these poor bastards are starving because of the pittance they earn on the established tours. Hopefully some of their sponsors will walk away from them because the exposure through LIV events will be very limited.
@@gustaaf1892 except for the top 3-5 names, I doubt the others make a whole lot. Getting free golf equipment doesn't pay any bills. Many sponsorships are just free custom equipment, not actual money.
@@batsonelectronics They get their expenses covered, they make good to excellent prize money, they get appearance money in plenty of countries outside the US, they get large sponsorship incomes. All the golfers on the main PGA tour are very well to do.
Media is reeeally trying to paint the Liv golfers as wrong-thinkers. Shamelessly doing it for the PGA Tour.
Display of American Democracy as its finest!
Nope. Display of American business decisions and market competition, as well as contractual obligations as a part of a wholesome legal system.
Incorrect - absurd attempt at correlation - these issues are rooted in contract law and unfortunately, the LIV players signed a contractual agreement with an employer and have now breached their terms of employment - easy case - the signatures stand as evidence for no legal footing.
@@krismm2003 never realized so many people had read a pga tour contract. f'n amazing. in a democracy the pga's actions would be ok, we are a republic though