This is How To Fix Criterion Dungeons FFXIV | Xeno's Solution (Rant)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ย. 2023
- Criterion Dungeons have been an underwhelming new content introduced in Endwalker despite having the potential to be some of the best in the game. In this video Xeno goes over what he likes and dislikes about the current state of Criterion Dungeons and Criterion Dungeons Savage and gives his suggestions on what Square Enix could change to make Criterion better in the future expansions of Final Fantasy 14.
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It's worth pointing out that the Variant dungeons were designed to be released 8 weeks after the raid tiers. Sil'dih released 8 weeks after Abyssos. Rokkon was 8 weeks after Anabaseios. This was advertised as content designed for people who had EARLY CLEARS OF THE SAVAGE TIER and were supposedly already BIS on their chosen jobs (lol). Aloalo is off pattern (probably because they wanted to release three dungeons this expansion) but I expect that in the 7.x patches they'd have each tier have its own Criterion dungeon. I think they intend for the Criterion weapon upgrade to be a reasonable side grade weapon at that 8 week post-raid release point, on the same patch where they release the catch-up non-BIS relic. Aloalo is very unfortunately timed to be right before the patches where we're getting the final relic + at a time when everyone is EXTREMELY DISSATISFIED WITH TOME GEAR PROGRESSION.
The reward I really want though is sidegrades for tome gear (rather than raid gear), or even a totem or something to trade for one piece of tome gear. :( The tome lock is STILL the biggest hurdle for any gear progression imo.
I think raid equivalent sidegrades would be best imo. It gives raiders a reason to keep clearing, and if the difficulty is correctly tuned it gives a different progression for people who raid to get improved gear that will help raid progression. Currently, you pretty much get crafted, tome gear at snails pace, and work to raid gear. I'd like to be able to prog both at the same time to give myself breaks from the wiping on the same mechanics in PF, that would be very nice for me at least. I think it should drop raid equivalent accessories and armor slots, but leave out chest and weapon maybe, idk I haven't thought it through much.
Oh if criterion had gear progression like the typical savage raiding it would be so much better for healers and tanks since they get gear last in statics anyway, which ironically, it's four players.
SE makes upgrading weapons from design contest impossible for casual players who desperately want to glam. What a shame.
To me it just seems like they need to call the Normal version savage and get rid of the no death one.
Edit Xenos also agrees
I'm still pissed that the Blu Mage weapon upgrade is behind content that Blu Mages can't even do.
The Blu weapon being among the disaster of rewards is when I knew SE was hardcore out of touch. It would be like adding a food crafting recipe at the end of P12S.
@@Magguscaster blu weapon is there because it was a weapon design contest winner along with all the other tome weapons, so they didn't want to leave it out from getting a glow
Blu Mage is getting a lv 90 update in 7.0. Basically, they want you to go back to it later
@sizzychittybangbang except at the moment, it seems that like Bozja and Eureka Limited Jobs will not be allowed into said Dungeons even if we are at level.
@@Bikonito they could've put it pretty much anywhere else. It's not like BLU got any rewards in stuff it actually can do. But instead all SE decided to do for BLU was excluding it from the most recent moogle tomestone event. I like BLU but people complaining about lack of rewards for criterion should check what BLU received throughout the entirety of the expansion.
I think the Criterion should be at Extreme trial difficulty level to call these 'catch-up' gears.
Please don't make this content easier. It's nice to finally have some more difficult four man content.
@@ArborusVitaeI don't think it's wrong for their to be more hard core content especially for 4 man content, however I still think the rewards of Criterion aren't really worth it. I fully agree with Xeno that the weapon should have just dropped from the chest and locked out weekly. This should be an alternative to the raid progression not require you to do raid clears for these rewards.
@@HowlingDoom For it to be an alternative I feel like it would to come out earlier and be loot exclusive with raids. If it's out later and basically requires raid gear anyways it's not an alternative and if it's out at the same time and isn't loot exclusive then it's not an alternative, it's a mandatory thing you do to get BiS faster. I would personally prefer it be kept to cosmetic rewards only or come out late enough that the gear is irrelevant outside of gearing alts.
I personally don't need criterion to have rewards at all to want to do it- again, the fun is going in with three friends and progressing the bosses. Not to mention that if the gear has no use then it's kind of irrelevant anyways- currently the only thing to do with gear is Ultimates (when they're current with the tier), Criterion, or hunt parses (xd lmao). If anything, we need more content that requires or encourages BiS to motivate you to actually get it.
This. If you are a midcore players the only thing you had to do this expansion was farm EX trials, every other content was only focused of hard core raider.
@@dragonmares59110 if you can do extremes you can do Criterion and Savage. The step up isn’t that big. You could even go do UWU, UCOB, or TEA. This content is very accessible on a midcore schedule.
if i want glam from hard content, i wait until it can be unsynced lmao
crit savage has a hard ilvl sync on it
I just hate how criterion THE CONTENT FOR 4 PLAYERS requires you to do 8 PLAYER savage to even use the weapon you get from the 4 PLAYER savage. It makes no sense they made this exactly for people who want tougher stuff in smaller groups. Also why is the gentleman's umbrella there you can't even do this on blue mage.
Because SE really likes to shit on BLU players in EW
Please post this to the forums, SE never properly watches videos or reddit for feedback, this is a good breakdown of the reward issues.
I doubt Square Enix reads the English forums either. Probably for the best, the place is a dumpster fire.
As the other person said they may not read forums, but in Xeno’s FanFest videos with Arthars, Yoshi-P tells them verbatim that they watch their streams sometimes. So honestly, their streams are probably the best place to put out opinions from NA for them to be listened to.
Lmao what makes you think they look at the forums?
Really hope the dev's see this video and consider it when designing the 7.0 Criterion system
The way it currently is, they are missing the point of why people wanted harder 4-man content. I believe like myself most of them simply don't have the schedule stability to maintain a static raid group and don't have the time to wait for a full-party to form in PF.
nah, it's in english, aka they won't bother with it.
Yoshi said that himself at some point, if there's no japanese subtitles, they aren't watching it, basically strong arming the content creators to get a translater and spend money on that to give them suggestions on how to fix key area's.
@@DarkDyllon This is wrong, have you tried turning on the captions? all of Xeno's videos are translated to Japanese by one of his editors. Again check the captions
the sad thing about criterion is that its actually good content and we get to see different ways devs approach mechanics, another way to get people to do the content is have a BiS piece for ultimates in fututre
The main thing I play for is how experimental it is, Specially going the variant mode, not searching up and figuring out most of the clues is such a thrill and it does deliver hype moments.
Not to mention the possibility to switch jobs mid variant dungeon.
I just wish both criterion modes also had the same option to play with a undersized party or straight up solo queue into it, You already got the skills for DPS, Healing and mitigation. They could legit go with something like bozja and eureka and allow players to buy/unlock more duty actions for more variety and better viability in general.
Overall they should simply be even more experimental with it.
I play with three irl friends and we've talked about wanting something exactly like this for year. Hopefully they can listen and get it right with Dawntrail!
Normal criterion is pretty good, even if you dont care about the reward they still for a shiton of gils
Honestly, being able to do difficult content with close personal friends is really a reward in itself for us, too! @@lucasvallet4487
It might be interesting if they dropped the criterion savage for each tier, and then released a savage at the end that had the end or secret bosses from each previous criterion, no trash - just boss rush.
I have a three friends who would love to try some harder content but they're too nervous to try 8 man random groups and too busy to join a static. Crit would be incredible for them... if it was an actual progression path. Right now it's just a novelty, as useful and rewarding as deep dungeon aka ZERO.
Progression path? mf just run the content if you actually want to do it.
@@undercoverspy123 You ever think maybe people want to do content for the feeling of progression?
Extreme is the perfect content for this, easy to pick up and no need static
Whats it progressing to?
@@ArchieGamez his point is he wanted it for 4 people not 8
When criterions were first announced I was SO hoping it would finally be mid-core content, instead it was just more savage-level crap. The gap in content difficulty and lack of mid-core content is still one of this game's biggest flaws imo.
Extremes and half of each Savage tier in this expansion were mid-core, no? I'm not sure whether your definition includes mere difficulty alone, or some external factors like time/grind or gear reward/requirement.
@@KaeiandKinda sucks that half the raids are midcore though because, yeah I don’t mind mid but I don’t like hardcore so I won’t finish the rest of them.
@@Kaeiand Savage isn't midcore.
@@Tystolfo 1S, 2S, 5S, 6S, 9S, and 11S are very doable for a player looking to dip their toes into slightly more serious content, even in PF. Assuming your gear is decent and you know your rotation, they're perfectly doable.
@@Kaeiand Savage is not midcore. It's not forgiving enough to be midcore and most mechanics still need a good amount of practice to clear.
Really hoping in one of the (obviously) upcoming interviews that Yoshi-P finally explains what their mindset is/was around developing Criterion.
From what I can tell I think it was actually supposed to be a 4 man ultimate. Ultimate raiders complained about there not being enough hard stuff. Everyone complained about how uninteresting dungeons have been the last few expac’s. The devs figured they could kill two birds with one stone.
@@RaddyC I don't know if its popular or unpopular of an opinion but I really would like regular dungeons in Dawntrail to become substantially deadlier. Not through tons of boss mechanics but through how hard mobs hit, to effectively kill the meta of wall-to-wall pulling and the mindless aoe spam. I think the power creep that has allowed that rush/spam meta to develop is why dungeons are so uninteresting, there's literally no thought needed for them and that just makes them a chore to get done instead of engaging content in their own right. It's also kind of ridiculous that class balance and gear power creep has made party comp completely irrelevant in the content. Tanks should always need a healer in a group setting, healers shouldn't be able to just pull on their own and heal through it because they got impatient, and having competent dps in the group should add far more damage than tanks and healers themselves can pull alone even with a large gear gap between them. Even with XIV's slightly looser-than-traditional take on the class-trinity of tank/healer/dps, things have just been allowed to blur so much in regular dungeon content that its made those dungeons into thoughtless busy work.
@@troikas3353 I want to say the hallway simulator style isn't particularly interesting either for dungeons. At least the Criterion dungeons have alternate paths and such. It's hard to develop content for a community with a "get it done so we can spam it" mentality, which is frankly most mmo's I've ever seen, but like... I'd rather have fun than content I can put on a treadmill
@@troikas3353 imo they should do dungeons more similar to how they are in WoW (bad dead game boohoo). They don't even have to be difficult, just not the same exact dungeon with different visuals.
@@troikas3353That will never happen. FFXIV is a story-MMO first and foremost, and they've shown the past few expansions that they want to design dungeons around even the most smoothbrain of players being able to clear it and progress.
As a glamour chaser your 100% correct, most of us are casual and if the content is too bothersome wont bother especially if our time is more limited. My red mage glam has always been the dreadwyrm weapon, i'd love the gold one but i've always disliked the idea of trying to form a group with strangers for an Ultimate cause people can get downright nasty in those raids. Critera Savage is a similar boat, a lot of effort if your a mostly solo player for practically little pay off.
The idea of one or more extra boss in the savage is really neat, especially when you consider the secret route in the variant. Like imagine a portal opening after the last boss dies and you have the secret boss show up, that would rule. Or even the first boss that shows up in every variant path coming into play. Plus some variations in the variant weren't used, like the thin green square that buffs you and the whoopie cushions for the faerie
@25:20 the chatter who said bis should only be from savage stuff dont let them know about the x.55 relic or they'll be mad
The addition of the glamour weapon is a tiny step in the correct direction but it definitely doesn't cover the issues that most content creators like Mr. Happy, Arthars, and Xenos have covered. The glam could be a motivator for a few more people sort of like mini-ultimates.
I hope Square continues to listen and find time and resources to fix Criterion because the battle content in normal Criterion is quite fun and a bit more unique than your standard raid savage or extreme. It is like one team (the battle team led by Mr. Ozma) is doing its best and using Criterion as a mini testing ground, the art team goes ham on the assets and spectacle, but the rewards team is phoning it in.
I think adding the weapon was a step in the right direction, but its not enough. Also this is for the SAVAGE, not the normal, which I think needs help too on the rewards.
People barely have a reason to do the normal criterion as it is. The mounts and orchastrations are purchasable on the market board, and there are much easier, more profitable, ways to farm gil in this game than doing Criterion. Criterion Savage having glam is fine, but Criterion Normal needs help in the rewards department too imo. Like give us an armor set or something. stuff like the twines and shines would be a great reward too with maybe some nice glam that isn't on the weekly lockout.
I think Variant’s rewards are okay. There are minions, furniture items and the like you can farm and the potsherd items are valuable. However Variant could also do with a roullete of some sort.
Edit: to add to the Criterion Savage idea of having more bosses. SE ALREADY HAS A RECIPIE FOR THIS, THEY LITTERALLY HAVE A FOURH BOSS IN THE VARIANT THEY COULD BE USING BUT AREN'T! Like, get the first three bosses, make them slightly harder with a new mechanic, do more damage or whatever. And then instead of the normal last, boss the last boss can be a Criterion, harder version of the secret route boss for the savage! That would be perfect! Heck, why not use the midboss too?! We can have a five boss dungeon, sure, lets go!
Remove the savage difficulty and this would be more interesting and worthwhile to do.
Facts. The criterion is already hard enough, with most groups. The savage version is just a headache, with subpar rewards. I’d rather just prog/do a ultimate with my time.
I think they need to rethink savage. Going for endurance/consistency test isn't fun for most players, especially when ultimate is right over there and much more fun to do (imo)
Savage should have this:
- checkpoints after every boss/trash just like in normal
- no rez still, and the fights and adds still have boosted damage values
- remove the dungeon-wide timed enrage
- add the secret boss to the end of the savage dungeon (4 bosses total)
Reward materials for regular criterion should prepare you for savage on a weekly lockout, and give you one twine, one shine, and one tomestone augment (and maybe the disc too, but you can get one from normal raids before criterion comes out). With these rewards you can get full upgraded tome gear and an augmented weapon. This should be more than enough to get you into savage to get your weapon, and you can be max ilvl (not bis) without even touching the tier this way
Please no, my group just cleared Savage after doing Normal/Savage intensely the last 3 days and it's been some of the most fun hardcore-raid experience I've ever had. More high-end content never hurts.
Just make the content like the 8 man savage where you have to learn new mechs and add checkpoints.
I agree with xeno's solution. Because it Opens up the raid tier and is a great catch up mechanic. I think Criterioni savage should just be removed IMO because the implementation leaves no desire to do it. Unless there are different mechanics who cares? Because the reward would be so monumental to force people to do it, it would be a crying shame.
Also, i think adding more raid tier to reward to Criterion also targets MORE Than just those who dont have 7 other people to do savage. It can help struggling casual and Midcore groups get gear as well.
Regular Criterion is already the "savage" and Criterion Savage should actually be Criterion Ultimate. A boss gauntlet. No Trash. Bring in the variant boss from the "secret" path, bring in the first boss from variant - a 5 boss gauntlet with 4 rezzes, no reset of rezzes after each boss. Maybe each boss is slightly shorter than in savage, but with new and different, harder mechanics.
As a PLD Main, I practically HAVE TO do Savage now. The Sword and Shield look just wayyy too good.
Honestly i just want to get the glowing NIN daggers from the savage aloalo, but finding another 3 people that share same sentiments with me is a daunting task lmaooo
(Not even my static members want the hassle of progging criterion savage kekw)
I'm in the same boat, I want to do it but don't think anyone in my group does
make it drop upgrade for normal raid gear and tombstone weapon, you still have to run the normal raid but dont force you to do savage also make getting alt gear more easier
absolutely agree and on point with the new rewards. I dont like doing hard content much, but the glamour has actually motivated me to try criterion dungeon. but needing to go through other savage raids for the shiny weapons rewards just demotivated me. i thought criterion was suppposed to be a lower stakes style raid that is outside of getting bis.
I didn't know the Ilvl665 weapon from Criterion still required you to augment your tome weapon from P11S. Holy shit when you pointed that out, I understood immediately the rewards are still garbo.
you can get the augment mat for exchanging unsung blades from p12n. 0 savage raiding required
@jocco997 I think you may be mistaken. What you get from turning the blades in is the hermetic tomeston to get the initial weapon. To upgrade that weapon you need the divine solvent which you can only get right now in savage.Unless there is a vendor you know that we don't know about?
@@tylerspaulding3684 Typically they add the solvent (weapon upgrade) as unockable through hunts and tomes..... in the last catchup patch. Aka, 6.55 in 2-3 more months. at THAT point, it will finally be farmable.
@@tylerspaulding3684
oh right, i had the feeling that i could get the 630 weap last tier without raiding. im sorry :D
@TS-uc4hi and at that point literally who cares since the Manderville is better and a drooling child can get it?
I am getting tome cap every week since week one and i still don't have all the BiS armor for all jobs from tomes, i only bought one tome weapon before clearing P12.
Honestly I would have preferred the weapons just being ilvl 1 glam items. Like you said, tomes are already at a premium for gearing alt jobs, and on top of that, I have to hope I get lucky on loot rolls in p11s for a few weeks. I feel sorry for anyone who can't find a group to even clear that fight since they have no hope of getting the weapons before 6.55, or even 6.58 if they wait on releasing the weapon upgrades.
as a raider I wouldn't mind doing the variant and criterion mode? Idk all the modes but the savage sounds like a straight up headache no matter how you slice it
Have you been able to look into adding JP subtitles for your videos?
yes! some of the videos do have them
Appreciated!@@XenosysVex
For me there is really multiple instances where they could introduce some horizontal progress.
- Dungeon gear, it is such a shame that this is really just glam and maybe for ultimate bis. Why do we not introduce a way to maybe make it BiS in the end. Would be fine with the catch up patch and the upgrading it with the 2nd rate tomes.
- Alliance raids: I dont care how you do it, it should max ilvl. Make it augmentable for all i care.
- In my opinion there should be a gear set in the expansion that follows a similar system as the relic weapon (no, i dont want a relic armor set), but something like eureka armor, bozja whatever, and here it would have been cool to have variant themed sets you can upgrade. -10 ilvl from variant, then upgrade it via criterion. Get the weapon via savage.
And on a side note, please make it that I get faster my tome stuff. It is miserable. I want it at least in the catch up patch to be like this:
- the one week cap should allow me to buy anthing from chest,legs, weapon whatever
- what is this BS with the weapon, I dont understand why it is not buyable like any other gear. Having a shitty token in savage, requiring 7 weeks of last tier normal, come on.
- with full capped stomes I should be able to buy everything.o
- At the end of the raid patch I want to have all relevant tome gear
Thank you so much for bringing up horizontal progression. That's all I wanted from Criterion! I got a couple friends together much easier than putting an 8 man static together.
But we walked into the first one in crafted gear and got *demolished*. We couldn't get over enrage timers! How do we overcome that? Go into Savage to get better gear?
That defeated the point!
Everyone was complaining about rewards, meanwhile it didn't appeal to non-raiders b/c it was tuned for people who already had raid gear. Crazy Frustrating.
Great video Xeems, TBH the one major thing I've wished FFXIV had for years is more linear progression. Hopefully people get it and they'll make adjustments for Dawntrail.
you nailed it!!! That's exactly what the game is missing, it would be a dream and so epic!!!
I think Criterion being savage is a huge mistake, if they added an extreme mode that had extreme level gear I think it would be way more popular and accessible since way more of the community is willing to do extreme level content. I'm not sure if other people have this experience but I have lots of friends who don't have time for savage but still want somewhat challenging content and they love farming extremes and I thought criterion being extreme would be perfect since it would give them more things to do and I could have more things to do with my more casual friends who don't want to do savage or ultimate.
I am a raider, I love glamour but I will not subject myself to criterion. I hate it I cant be asked for just a weapon glam thats not even mid to me...
On top of all this, the weapon upgrade will be OBE by 6.55, whats the point have having that higher ilvl when all the stuff you need you could use it for is done, ultimate? maybe
Criterion should be a bit easier, make a mid point between extreme and Savage, this savage + lvl is horrible with no good rewards, having to be decked out in savage gear to do criteron is crazy. Id rather personally have it been a "midcore" which we dont have much of, and almost none in 6.x I would prefer extreme SOLO content.
What is and isn't midcore/hardcore has been a hot topic recently. I wouldn't mind seeing you grade XIV content by how difficult you classify it as. Like on a 1-10 scale, 1 is casual 5 is midcore 10 is hardcore. Or do a tier list
"When they add the to the 24 man, it's gonna be with the relic patch, right?"
Unless I'm mistaken, it's after the relic patch. Relic patch is 6.55 for sure and the 660 tome item from the alliance raid shop should be 6.58. At the very least, it was x.58 for stormblood and shadowbringers (checked patch notes).
x.55 and x.58 tend to be around 2.5 months apart.
I plan to do all crits as my entry into hardercore content as i dont have enough active friends to do stuff like actual raids easily and scheduling is a nightmare but got like 4 people
I like to collect glam, but I don't do savage/raid content, so if it's too hard or require too much commitment, then I'll skip it, even when I like the glam.
I'm glad you said that the ultimate raiders do it for the fight and not the item (the item is just a trophy for them). A lot of people play for the sake of optimization and that is what SE struggles with understanding and catering to. People who play for optimization do not care about hardmode content outside of being a means to compete on the numeric values and in many cases, do not even like doing the savage content they are forced to clear. The devs intend that measly 5 point boost to the weapon score as a trophy, but in reality it becomes a requirement for people who are about optimization, so they end up being forced to do the fight just to get max iLvL so they can do what they really want to do.
And people who Optimize are not strictly end game hardcore raiders! A lot of people who are into optimization can only afford to do savage maybe 9 hours in a week and sometimes get walled all over the place because of that. Some can't even really get what they want until the last patch of the entire expansion, as that is the only point where the max iLvL gear is mostly accessible. Even then, they have to deal with not having BiS armor which does impact what they are doing.
i mean i never did the savage versions for the reward, it was just a fun thing to do while waiting for the next ultimate. Guess the weapon is more of a glamour piece like the ultimate weapons.
If the Savage Criterion needs BiS gear, then the normal Criterion should be a way to get that BiS gear, either through tome upgrades or alternate gear. At least add the tome weapon upgrade if the Savage is meant to upgrade that weapon to be equivalent to the raid weapon
I really appreciate the final turn you took from "lazy" to "cautious". I agree 100% that the devs are worried about breaking their sandbox and pissing people off, and end up pissing people off by default.
it's the classic "can't please all of them" but in return they're pissing off more people.
there's a reason why it's impossible to please everyone at all times.
if you do patchs more focused on crafting/gathering than combat content, the raiders are going to complain.
if you do it reversed then the crafters/gatherer mains are going to complain.
if you do it 1 patch them 1 patch them, then you'll have them complain about how they'll have to basically wait 8 months for an update, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
it's the same with criterion, who is this content for? midcore players? maybe the normal criterion dungeon, since you get 1 raise+unlimited tries aslong as the timer allows.
but the savage version is definitely aimed more torwards the savage raider, which they won't care much especially for this 1 since in 2 months time the last tome relic step releases, which is gonna be BiS regardless, so the 665 weapons are obselete and for a juicy 6000 tomes you can get yourself a BiS weapon.
they need to take chances, this game isn't in that phase anymore where they need to treat carefully, they can take risks, maybe spice up the content cycle a bit, sure it'll piss some off, but that's also happening with keeping this riggid schedule.
Who translates your videos into Japanese in the captions? That's kinda cool.
5:03 yes, you are completely correct. I want the blue mage weapon, so l am just going to use "alternative method" to get it
There's no point for the savage version to even exist. Just make it an achievement to do the content without any party members dying. There's no point in putting that content out if its no different mechanically from the regular criterion dungeon and there's no point in locking catchup gear behind it if it's going to be a direct endurance test. What they should have done is make ilvl 655 armor coffers drop from the regular variant dungeon bosses (slot depends on the path you take), an ilvl 655 weapon coffer drop from the secret boss of the variant dungeon, then ilvl 660 weapon & armor enhancement items for completing base criterion with the weapon being directly exchanged for an ilvl 665 glowy version of the weapon at a specific vendor once you complete the no-death achievement. What they're doing right now makes absolutely no sense.
my fix for rewards:
- normal mode drop upgrade for tomestone weapon 660->665, drop upgrade for tomestone gear 650->660 (alternative source for upgrade other than alli-raid coins)
- savage mode drop upgrade for tomestone/raid gear 660->665
for how much ff14 likes to say it's casual friendly it's one of the most casual unfriendly when it comes to gearing. You either raid or you slowly collect a pittance of 450 tomestones a week which is 10 ilvls behind and ends up taking months to just gear 1 role and that doesn't even count weapon which is not shared between classes which takes 3 weeks by itself. Then months later once a week you get an item from alliance that finally let's you upgrade it to raid ilvl, but even then you'll still be stuck with garbage like piety tenacity and speed stuff.
When I heard hard dungeons were coming out I thought it would be an alternate path like wow m+ for those who don't want to raid and all it is yet again is more content for raiders to use their gear on with dumpster rewards that you can just buy off the market if you even care about them.
For me, I do the normal Criterion dungeons because I find it fun to progress them and I would do them even if they have no loot at all. But I would obviously only do it until I managed to clear it once and I would not go for Savage.
Kinda agreed tbh. def not gonna grind a headache savage crit run + do p11s reclears, for all the weapons i want to upgrade, just for a weapon with the same stats as p12s weapons. id rather just do p12s again LOL. but i respect if people do want to do it.
add more bosses is probably the most important thing. they have those secret bosses in the variant dungeons and basically havent used them for criterion. that's so dumb.
I compared criterion savage to ultimate only in the capacity that I am presuming that you will never be able to do the content unsynced, and therefore you won't be able to cheese the content for the weapon, just like ultimate weapons. Beyond that I don't think the two pieces of content are similar at all.
I agree, the difficulty for the Criterion just feels so unnecessary for the level of rewards your getting. I get it that its a savage lvl item lvl, but after so many months of raiding on the final tier many people already have those lvl of weapons with p12s. They honestly should have either add more to the reward pool like mount or a new really gorgeous glamour armor set, or at least lower the difficulty so thats its above Extreme but easier than savage because those mechanics are just plain nutty.
Only 10% raid savage and even fewer cleared p12s.
They should introduce crafting materials (which can be sold in the auction house) for upgrading weapons, even to the same item level as the savage ones. At this point, the raid has been available for a long time, so the item level may not matter as much.
I also believe players should have the option to enhance the visual appearance of their savage gear through crafting (with creterion materials for exemple). This could involve purchasing materials with raid currency after a few clears or with unused tokens, which can be traded in the auction house. It's important to note that you would still need the original savage gear for the upgrade, and the crafting process would only affect the appearance.
The current criterion is poorly designed, and the difficulty is poorly balanced. To address this, they should consider adopting a system similar to the mythic mode in World of Warcraft. I'm not suggesting they copy mechanics, but they should add a progression system. Even if you're not a highly skilled player, you can still work your way up in mythic plus dungeons in WoW because the difficulty primarily depends on numbers and less on mechanics on the lower tiers. It becomes challenging when you need to meet specific DPS requirements and take a lot of damage, can't do perfectly the mechanics and you can't handle it. Some players might struggle because they can't meet the DPS requirements or are at their limit, but they can still progress to a certain extent, albeit with lower item level rewards. Highly skilled players can push their limits, obtain the best gear, and then continue challenging themselves beyond their limits. This approach could be made even more relevant with a ranking system and additional rewards.
I'll be real, I've avoided doing criterion because of lack of reward. Finally decided to start going through with them starting with this one that just came out. 100% agree with your sentiment here. I think what would make a good savage is design it just like an ultimate where you have to do back to back encounters with the bosses that appear in the criterion boss. Revamped mechanics and include a 4th boss that you see by doing all the 12 routes in the Variant. More rewards ofcourse.
Also, comment on adds. I like difficult add clearing in mmos, but they are done poorly in criterion. Tbh, I don't even think, with how ffxiv is designed, difficult add packs are really possible to design well.
I wanna think they made Criterion with the hope it could patch the lack of variety in Expert and weekly roulettes (see only one dungeon per patch), but they didnt wanna actually make another dungeon because it was the least played content
I have an idea for savage. Savage should have rez like criterion, and there should be 2 boss rooms with each room having a set of 4 bosses swapping between each other or combining mechs in a 10 minute fight per room (sort of like a mini ult). So you end up with a 18-20 minute dungeon with 2 boss rooms, 8 bosses total, and no trash.
Now I don’t know if that works or sounds fun for others but it does to me.
As for rewards I think that normal criterion should have weekly tome upgrades like xeno said, with savage having a 665 tome wep right away instead of an upgrade, or something of that level, given that there are A lot of jobs and we’re getting more soon.
Imo they should've make the normal give you "Replicas" of the weapon with the VFX while the Savage just like Xeno said give you the whole weapon.
It is disappointing that the normal Criterion doesnt give any rewards that encourage you to do this besides a mount that you can buy from the market board
Then you get a weapon that maybe is pretty for your job (or maybe not?) that is not even worth doing because its identical to the raid weapon. And for this you have to play this without dying
Criterion would be worthier as catch up content that is more challenging than alliance raids
I hope they give savage item rewards in Dawntrail, otherwise good content with no rewards
Someone really needs to summarize the points Xeno made and translate it to japanese to be posted in JP forum. These are good points. People has been suggesting the kind of proper rewards they would like to see in Criterion, but I never really see the devs responding why those rewards are not there yet. They really seem to only look at JP forum and not twitch, twitter, youtube or probably even non-JP forum. I'm completely baffled at how out of touch the devs seem regarding Criterion. When they did LL and said that there's going to ilvl upgrade rewards, I expected them to explain what they are going to put and not going to put. And more importantly, why? Devs have history of such discussion for other things in the game, but it feels like they're avoiding any discussions about criterion as if they're planning to shut it down for good. Who knows.
If they do it this way. One clear should give you all the weapons. And then make an easier grindier way of getting them outside of that. And/or god forbid, put in some unique items to gather and let us craft them. Now there are 3 different ways of getting these cool unique community designed weapons.
This man is spittin'. Especially the part about the ilevel sync.
Wait .. doesn't savage have MORE mechanics which is why it's different?
No. In Savage:
1. The bosses deal more damage.
2. The bosses have more HP.
3. Some aoes might be untelegraphed (as an example, the Yuki's half cleave in AMR becomes untelegraphed in AMR(S); you have to pay attention to which hand the Yuki has raised)
4. You cannot rez
5. No checkpoints
6. There is an enrage timer that begins counting down the moment the first mob is pulled.
There are no new mechanics, but the higher boss hp means you have to deal with some mechanics that are commonly skipped in base Criterion (such as Gorai's Malformed Reincarnation in Another Mount Rokkon).
@akrob1152 man, it was nice of you to list all of that but aside from me questioning boss mechanics. Most of that info was already known.
Appreciate your effort thought 😘
Variant should be normal mode, criterion extreme , and savage, savage difficulty. Normal to criterion is a huge jump in difficulty
I must be a weird BLM at a 2.43 GCD. I trying to go lower SPS. And was hoping the new Criterion weapon offered some incentive.
They coulda just made an achievement for getting through Criterion without a death/wipe that rewards a title or something simple like PotD/HoH.
We have Variant to act as the "normal" and Criterion to act as the "savage" equivalents. I dont know why it was so hard for them to get that right. I fear that the design teams have some misconception that higher end players want painful fights and encounters as a form of challenge. But that's how we get encounters like TOP and Crit Sav. They just need to be a fair challenge for time invested that doesn't miss out on the fun factor.
So, here's my take (as a relatively scrub player who WANTS to get into end game raiding):
Criterion itself should just provide *UNIQUE* gear just slightly below the most recent raid tier. That way, it acts as a way for players to effectively "raid" without needing an 8-man static etc, AND acts as a stepping stone to 8 man content, without "devaluing" (not that I think it would devalue anything imo) the raid content available.
The SAVAGE should be treated similarly to Ultimates - Provide a big chase title and unique glowing weapon that exists purely for bragging rights - Ultimates themselves, aren't "really" worth doing in terms of reward, but people do it anyway BECAUSE they want those weapons and titles for bragging rights; same will apply here.
I think Variant and Criterion are some of the best content we've received (fight me, shits fun and ACCESSIBLE, while still being challenging, and the Variant stuff is a nice change of pace from regular generic dungeon runs), but the rewards just aren't there yet - And honestly, SE needs to stop being scared, and actually give rewards to match the content - The problem is, raiders *will* bitch if Criterion/Savage gets rewards that echoed Savage/Ultimates respectively; when the reality is, that's EXACTLY what Criterion needs as a whole to be relevant and worth engaging with.
I *really* hope SE continues to give us this content, but with better rewards, because I'd hate to see it go, just because of the negativity surrounding the rewards.
Personally I'm glad they didn't add more than just the weapon upgrades for this patch.
Not because the content and the rewards are now perfect, cause we all know it's not.
But because we're not in a situation where criterion has now become so good reward wise it replaces everything else.
So instead of massive adjustments that could break the game balance entirely, I believe we'll likely see more small tweaks and updates to the rewards until it is finally in a really good place.
The potential of this content is high but theres the denizens of ff offical forums who will say "casuals shouldn't have raid level gear" if the dungeons come every catch up patch, the raid gear is already past expiration.
Yoshida needs to just reconize that this isnt going to be another Diadem 1.0 situation (the 135 pink weapon controversey) since they have the gear power level progression standardized. There needs to be horizontal progresson because it becomes annoying when you want to gear more than 1 class and your raid group becomes lazy about reclears.
Here is an idea if they are so worried about rewards being too easy to get:
1. No savage mode.
2. Make the first bosses of variant mode (the gigas, ninja lady, and wooden dog) be apart of criterion.
3. Make the hidden bosses from variant mode the final boss of criterion.
That is 5 bosses with a savage element to them. Well worth the reward of shines, twines, titles, glams, and weapons. No copy paste, and its just a fun challenging marathon with a weekly lockout.
Hard disagree on second point And third point.
Why is that? @@Paraguai123
@@Lurki- I think the Criterion mode already has enough time as it is to complete. Adding a new boss makes it way too exhausting.
I'd prefer those to be the Savage version instead.
That is completely understandable, but we don't want a savage version right? If they let us have some "raise" points, it makes the criterion more like a marathon of fights than stress of trying to not die once. Its just a bummer that the first boss of each variant dungeon has unique mechanics according to the path you take and it never gets taken to the next level if they were all mixed together, and the hidden boss seems to stay hidden to a lot of players and all 3 of them have been awesome. I was just thinking of a method they could use so they don't have rely on savage mode for rewards.@@Paraguai123
I only do the variant to get the 12 logs to get the mount/achievement/trophy
I'm one of those "I do Savage for the glam" people. I started in Eden because I wanted the greatsword from Shiva (and mounts.)
And I don't mind the challenge.
But I haven't even side-eyed Criterion. My Static can't do it because we're an 8-man, not a 4-man. We're also a pretty slow static. So I'd need to find a second, smaller Static, with different hours from my normal Static, that fits my ALREADY very tight free time schedule, for a dungeon we'd run maybe a couple of times.
Same reason I haven't done the Blue Mage savage content despite wanting to. Way too much of a hassle for something that's really not worth the energy.
Glam hunters are a dice roll - they are either super casual or walk around with a TOP weapon on wearing the fucking hellhound armor
True can't generalize.. that Eureka armor was easy to get too, but no joke in terms of grind per glam.
it can't be catchup gear if it's easier to clear p12s than criterion savage
Semi-related rant based on something mentioned in the video. Not only is the weekly limit on current-patch tomes way to low, but I feel its also stupid that you *have* to choose between getting current-patch tomes by doing roulettes as a max level job OR get EXP for leveling below max level jobs.
They *want* to encourage people to level all of their jobs, but then wall off the one thing that would incentivise doing that because if you want to GEAR for new content you HAVE to play as the job you finished the content with! There is absolutely no reason they could not give you current-patch tomes when doing roulettes with a job you are leveling.
I can 100% confirm that it's nice because of the smaller group size. Some of us aren't streamers that can just call on 100 people to show up. A group of four at high difficulty content is much easier to put together.
It is basically what I feel from criterion 1. When criterion dungeon 1 arrived, I tried to progress with minimum ilvl and it is awful. The boss hit hard, if 1 of the party members were not functioning, I basically died due to damage alone. Then I tried with my main job, holy shit the difficulty dropped like night and day.
Now the problem is like what you said, what is this content for (even for normal) ? You need to at least have raid gear or all tome gear, to at least make your life (and other players) slightly not miserable.
Reward (even though the mount can become a gil source) is also pathetic. It is like you say, why not add gear rewards like savage and locked weekly. Then we have 7 types of gear (tank, healer, maiming, slaying, aiming, scouting, caster). FFXIV is basically marketed as if you want to play as a tank then healer later in the same content, you can. Why not make this dungeon to liven up with the jargon ? Sure the gearing of the alt job will be delayed 8 weeks, but the result ? The player can have another resource to gear towards alt which results in variety gameplay. Now rather than only have 2 jobs geared, you have 3 after 16 weeks (or maybe 4).
I agree with Criterion being like an alterbstive version to get gear. The problem is the gear itself, much like 8-man savage, do nothing. Savage gear is just to re-clear savage fights easier and it's only true importance is when there is an ultimate fight around. Dungeons are item level capped so your top tier gear is almost useless
665 gear across the board was the answer with the relic weapon finishing at 670
Imo the criterion savage should be accessible to people with 640-650 gear, like the beginning of the raid tier is. Healing criterion sucks because there’s only 4 people, so a WHM main like me is already handicapped because of having no shield/few mits. The damage coming out is on par with end-tier raids, while we don’t have the 8-man 5% buff. I feel like I healed nothing in criterion compared to savage/ultimate.
Variant actually the best content of the expansion imop. they are gorgeous dungeons particularly the new one the branching pathways are fun to explore. Criterion i havent touched much but i did enjoy what i did. i have seen people go mad for glamour
all we wanted were slightly challenging 4 mans.
Savage is really weird... Based on interviews I get the impression that they had the basic plan for criterion, and they thought it would be neat to have a no death timed challenge achievement, but to make it work it had to be a separate instance. Their biggest mistake was calling it savage. The content doesn't line up at all with how the community sees savage, and while they're trying to bandaid the problem by matching ultimate in rewards (title+glam), it's still fundamentally missing its target audience. The kind of person who would enjoy criterion savage is the same kind of person that would solo deep dungeons, the people that enjoy overcoming unreasonable content. I'm not sure there's a big overlap between that kind of player and the kind of player that would get bis from the raid tier to even be able to do it though. I really hope they revisit it in dawntrail, they have to know just how little uptake there is in the community.
33.30 yeh the variant has like 5 boss the first boss on each path which isnt in criterion then has the 3 criterion and then the secret path 12 boss so savage could have all 5 with the final havent a door boss
Add rewards to Savage
Make the Savage version be Boss Rush only
Add one or two new mechanics
Third boss is door boss
Last boss is the secret boss from Variant.
1:42 - 1:47
*The entire FF community needs to hear this daily*
Fucking fr
Excellent vid. Yoshi should just hire you to sort it out Xeems
They should add Beard for clearing Criterion Savage, I think Xeno would be happy with that lol
I rather do ultimate for endurance test. Every step of mechs I conquered I feel an achievement. At first it’s for glamour, after the 3rd ult,It’s more on the fun of prog.
Criterion on the other hand imo, well not a very fun thing for me to do. But it would be good if it can give me different tomb cap that I can exchange for savage bis. Better still I can farm some Gil instead of dependent solely on market board and duty or drop things I can use to level up my island faster if I don’t enjoy the island toiling.
SE should give players more path to do stuff. And seriously ultimate and savage is my main content in FF14. It’s the only 2 things that got me excited. The rest not so much except for the story.
So, at first I was like 'Awesome they added an actual reward.' Then I saw it was only to make weapons Savage tier equals instead of giving alternative gear opportunities too. For this reason I agree with Xenos, Savage Criterion is still not worth the difficulty to reward ratio. Not when you have to not only not die at all, but make it by a specific timer or everything in the dungeon enrages.
I'm just ignoring the weapon's stats, it's glowy and therefore from 7.0-onwards, its point would be as glam. There's no kidding ourselves, it's a glam weapon in the same way old ultimates are glam weapons.
@@TS-uc4hi You can look at it that way all you want. After the content is no longer current/relevant everything is just glam. The problem on the table is that they are releasing current content that requires gear and nearly raid equivalent competent players to complete.....and for the most part doesn't give jack in return. For current content...that is dumb plain and simple.
I still dont know wtf they where doing putting a bluemage upgrade in criterion
I think the best solution is to complete remove (Savage) Criterion and merge all rewards into the normal Criterion mode. Criterion is already dead in PF after 3 days. Nobody cares about normal mode already, what makes people think that (Savage) Criterion will ever be interesting in any way to any player. That's like less the amount of players who do Ultimates in the community. It's too boring and insufferable to prog and reclear Savage Criterion for any of these rewards and it makes no sense. The real midcore solution would be to merge the Savage rewards into Normal mode Criterion and then erase the Savage version from existence. People who think this is a "mini" Ultimate need to get their head checked lmao
The weapon rewards is literally at the end of the patch cycle.
Like why not just add it in the beginning of the raid tier ? Just tone down it a little bit I say like extreme level rewards. Or some accessories that is 5 Ilvl lower, it's better than crafting, slightly better than non augmented tome gear but slightly lower than raid gear.
I don't get the "don"t ilvl sync Criterion NM" argument. The min ilvl is crafted & the ilvl sync is max current (when released) raid gear ilvl. I don't understand, really. Post the raid tier they were released in (and if SE digs into making it catch-up / alternative way of gearing), it loses all value anyway (unless it gets a specific set & some pieces are BiS).
Before continuing the video (paused to comment on that one), if Criterion Savage keeps being "bragging rights" (and, for what it's worth, my group is finally motivated by doing it because of the weapon glow), ilvl syncing it means the challenge is more or less preserved, a la ultimate, which was their inspiration as Yoshi-p said.
Ultimately, what I believe could happen is Criterion NM could be Critical Encounter (Bozja) / EX difficulty and gives non-upgraded tome stuff. Criterion Savage is current criterion, serves the purpose of 1st wave of catch-up / alternative gearing (released in X.[even]5 patches).
I love criterion as is already, so I'm fine with whatever happens as long as I get my criterion challenge.