Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Prodigy 1.12 - Let The Sleeping Borg Lie
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2022
- The Borg are back!
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Q to his son, “If the Continnum's told you once, they've told you a thousand times. DON'T PROVOKE THE BORG!”
I really hope Q shows up, I get he's 'dead' or whatever post Picard.... but this is before Picard and... Q are supposed to be able to do whatever when it comes to time soooo pre-picard Q should totally be able to show up.
@@Daggoth65 maybe here or in lower decks we can find out what happened to Q and rest of the continuum.
I have but one like to give, and you sir, have it.
The best part about the doctor is that its an actual spot on in canon bit of lore regarding how Telerites talk and like to be spoken to, total unfiltered honesty and snark.
I freaking love it
EXACTLY! I believe Sean got it wrong on this one. This was totally a compliment if coming from a Tellarite. She even smiled!
Can we talk about how awesome the Borg looked in this? The variation in mechanisms, and throwing in some non-human shaped bodies. The one with the square mask hiding their face was awesome.
I loved the non-human borg. That goes back to the TAS thing of "It's animated, go crazy". Love seeing them take advantage of that and show of things that would be hard to do in live action.
The Borg have always been techno-zombies, so I found myself wondering if the big square headed Borg were a sly reference to the mushroom zombie Clickers in the Last of Us.
For the down around not going in "Tubules first". The Janeaway hologram when talking about the cube being dormant, speculates a contributing factor to that was a virus which had shut down their nanoprobes. So the episode does account for the reason they take them to a chamber, and not start the process there and then.
So a couple things;
1. The Diviner may NOT have known about the Borg. Consider his story; the Vau N'kat thought they were alone in the universe until First Contact from Starfleet, and that revelation triggered a literal religious civil war because it was so unsettling to half their population that they WEREN'T the apex of creation. By the sound of it his quest for revenge drove him to ignore everything else.
2. Big ups to the design team for not taking the easy way out and copy-pasting drones. Every one looks unique, ironically.
I came here to point out that very fact! The Vau N'Kat most certainly wouldn't have heard of the Borg.
Also I want to know what is up with Borg drone with a car grill on their face. What is up with that? Are they just there to be a sensor drone?
Also, Gwyn was raised by just the Diviner and his henchman alone, and her education was very controlled. Maybe they specifically didn't tell her?
I'd add to this that Gwyn likely grew up in or around the region Voyager started its journey, quite a distance from Borg space, as evidenced by a Kazon showing up. That combined with the low probability of the Borg leaving many witnesses behind leaves me to doubt that Gwyn would absolutely know about them. She didn't know about the Federation or Starfleet either. Why are the Borg so much different?
@@elliotlevy8610 Because the Borg are native to the Delta, all space-faring races would have heard about them at some point. The thing that bugs me about the SF/VN first contact is, we don’t know _when_ it happened, but we can take an educated guess that it was Chakotay and the Protostar that did it (the Prodigy game even states that, but i don’t know if that’s canon or not).
The thing is, the Prime Directive does not allow for First Contact with a species unless the species in question has warp drive. So either the Protostar made first contact with Solum literally right after their first warp flight (like the Vulcans did with earth), or soon after, before the Vau N’akat discovered any other races. Which admittedly would explain why they probably don’t know about the Borg, or the Diviner _does_ know, but never considered them a potential threat.
@@TheGuardianofAzarath The Delta Quadrant is literally a quarter of the galaxy. Voyager, a rather fast and advanced ship for its time even relative to the races they encountered, had traveled the quadrant for years before encountering them.
To say that there's little way the races there could remain ignorant of the Borg is like saying that the Vulcans in ENT could not have been unaware of the Romulans because both are in the Alpha Quadrant (not to mention their shared ancestry).
There's that one scene in Dark Frontier where Seven saves those people who were waiting in the assimilation room and none of them were infected (besides the one already being operated on). So apparently it does/can happen. Maybe if the Borg sees that person as a threat/target, they inject but if they feel unbothered then just bring them to the chamber.
One thing I loved about the Borg from this episode, in a meta-textual sense, was the reappearance of something I love about animation as a medium; the Borg were varied in a way that's MUCH easier to accomplish in animation than with make-up. It reminded me of how TAS gave us a three-armed navigator who certainly NEVER would have appeared in live action television of the time.
Yeah agreed - being able to really play into the multi-species drones gave a new dynamic to the Borg from my perspective
So true. It is sad that animation has such a stigma of being "just for kids" in the US. Not needing an actor to physically be able to portray a species opens up so many possibilities for design instead of human with different colored skin and/or various things glued onto their head.
The attitude has been changing but it still has a long way to go before it is generally accepted.
The comment from the doctor that was rude is a tellarite’s way of complimenting. She smiled when he brought up her being a captain. It’s because he knew she could be. That’s how I read the scene. That smile was what softened the comment for me.
YES. He was being incredibly nice to the ensign and she knew it.
Yeah this. I definitelly disagree with the down, he is just being a Tellarite.
Tellatites are by nature rude and combative, just like the Andorians. Federation founders have to be to survive in the galaxy.
Total garbage episode and series
This is a Garbage series
As for "how the Borg work" the only problem in this episode for me is Gwyn in the "act harmless" bit. That doesn't usually work AFTER the Borg go into counter-infiltration mode.
exactly. they were acting really weird in not simply and immediately ASSIMILATING EVERYONE also..I just assumed they were all operating outside of normal due to being effected by the neurolytic pathogen the alternative timeline Admiral Janeway released way back in "Endgame" (VGR), though it also demonstrates that they've pretty much largely recovered from that pathogen
@@louisbrantmeyer8786 They couldn't assimilate the way they normally would have because their nanoprobes were destroyed. I also assume the pathogen was different from the one used in Voyager, otherwise "Janeway" would have already known about it.
I don't think Deviner would have had a reason to tell Gwyn about the Space Boogeymen. The story idea is possible but for species that are in general less powerful if they encounter the Borg they didn't live to tell about them. And if you didn't provoke them you wouldn't have a scary story.
You see, she'd dropped agro and....
Well, the Borg took notice of her and when she entered the assimilation chamber, they came for her immediately. Looks like the Borg have learned to be duplicitous if the situation demands it.
I was truly moved by Zero in this episode! The drama this show is committing to is brilliantly executed!
This was a visually stunning episode. I backed up the story twice, to take in the beauty of the Borg sphere and interior. The scene of Zero interacting with the collective was memorable.
I'm finding the Medusans more and more fascinating thanks to this show. I hope they continue to build Medusan cannon.
"Now lets think about the existentialism of being Borg" I say as we tune into this weeks episode of Star Trek: Kid's Edition
Missed that whole part of conversation this episode huh?
The first half of Prodigy was great, but it really seems like they've found their legs in the second half which is impressive as it takes most shows a full season or so to do this. Now they've settled into a nice rhythm with the characters and how the overall story is going to play out.
Great video as always and for next week if Janeway doesn't see through the Diviner right away I will be massively disappointed because she is an excellent judge of character and should not buy his bs for a second. But we'll see next week. Have a wonderful weekend guys!
Considering they had to be really careful with dark themes due to the younger viewers, I think they did an amazing job of painting the threat of the Borg! shame they couldn't assume we'd all seen Voyager and had Janeway skip the explanation and shout "RUN"
Its really an interesting dynamic with Janeway not being in command. Oddly it's given her a lot more to do with the character because she can't just look at the crew and say "No, you won't do this."
Picard's assimiliation wasn't the "usual" one. He didn't say "We are the Borg". He said "I am Locutus of Borg". So his experience must have been different to any other drone.
Aside from the Queen.
His treatment was similar to that of the Queen
Remember, the Borg created Locutus specifically for the purpose of communicating with humans, and they may have selected Picard for that role because of his experience as a diplomat. So yeah, his assimilation was, by design, entirely different from that of a mere drone.
I want to get more of Jankom Pog (well...I'm really partial to Jason Mantzoukas). This ep was great getting into more of our "cadets" in another trying situation...especially Zero. I feel for them, but Zero is realizing they aren't destined to hurt their group. Great delving into this Seán Ferrick (ups n downs)...thanks! ❤💛💙🤓🖖🏾
A couple things: when Picard cried to his brother about that he tried but couldn't stop the Borg I think plays directly into Picard as to why he couldn't. It felt like bliss. How do you fight that, not very would think.
And Gwyn was born and raised on the mining colony, why would either Diviner or Dreadnought discuss the Borg with her if that wasn't her purpose?
Other than that, great episode as usual!
They should at the end of the episode have HoloJaneway hail the Borg at the end and the Borg should be like "oh sh**, it's HER". Would be a funny moment.
This show is getting better & better!
"Tea... Black!"
The hairs on the back of my neck were standing on end when I heard that.
I can imagine Doctor finding out about Janeway's new...prescription. "If I told her to switch from coffee to tea, I'd have to have called in Commander Tuvok and half of security to keep her from ripping my memory processors out from the walls and jettison them out the nearest airlock."
I also loved how they went all in and had fun with these Borg. We had completely inhuman designs, a vast array of aliens, and a few of them looked like they would pass for something H.R. Geiger drew or some cybenetic Cenobyte.
I have to agree on your comments about Holo-Janeway not forcing them away from the cube. She would completely be trying to get them as far from the problem as possible.
Another reason for taking them to the assimilation chamber might be due to them being, well, kids...
The entire thing is that we never see a direct assimilation of children in their other situations. The borg kids from Voyager aren't shown being assimilated, so there may be issues with assimilation of juveniles or those who haven't fully grown up.
You also have the potential that Admiral Janeway's virus might mean that they're more careful with assimilating from the Federation to prevent a repeat.
Come to think of it, we've actually seen others brought to assimilation chambers before nanoprobes in one episode. Civilians from a world that had been conquered. It's possible the tubule thing is "combat assimilation" done under fire, and low-threat individuals are sent straight to the chambers for processing.
"More careful with assimilating from the Federation"
I love this because it means Jankom's presence saved them lmao that'd definitely give him a bigger head 😂
@@kilo1012 Plus the Protostar is an obviously Federation design...extremely advanced and seems to be crewed by kids, I could see the Borg getting the obvious take of it being a trap.
And if they managed to do a normal borg thing and realized there's holo-Janeway, it's surprising they didn't just run away screaming.
@@AzraelThanatos And they are wearing Starfleet combadges and carrying starfleet-issue phasers.
One also have to wonder if they are not tied to the Picard series Borg Queen.
Like post Janeway's mucking them up, do you think the Borg split into sperate cells to adapt to the flaw of the system wide damage having everything tied to the Borg Queen and a central hub?
Like in order to save the species from another such calamity, they are now no longer one massive hive, and are now several smaller, segregated hubs waiting for the day of total galactic assimilation before they once again fuse into one singular collective?
The one thing you should have downed was that the escape pod with the outpost crewman wasn't recovered. Assuming it wasn't already recovered.
Ageee, i was wondering about that when janeway showed up and they said no life present...
Maybe they killed him for abandoning the kids?
14:30 I fully expect her to stay as an ensign for the duration of the series. Janeway doesn't know how to promote somebody of that rank, after all.
Thanks again for another wonderful recap! You are a delight! Lots of love!
This iteration of the Borg are a scary introduction for kids. As for the assimilation chamber perhaps they were going to go to a maturation process. The Borg generally haven't been shown to put their tubes in children.
ya i don't think the team is all matrue physically to be on the spot also the last few times in the delta quadrant the borg assmilated a kid on the spot they got robo nut checked by a virus
Agreed, probably they would be put in the maturation chamber, some of these kids are younger than Icheb and Gwyn is about Icheb's age. Definitely were going into the pod.
When we first meet the born TNG, there is a baby borg with tubes and all.... so....
@@BritneyLaZonga Children assimilated by the Borg go into maturation chamber for 17 cycles. Borg clearly have a separate process for children.
Combat assimilation may be more a means of neutralization.
Jankom Pog looking for a keyboard on the Borg cube is another callback to Voyage Home (when Scotty settles for using a keyboard after realizing he cannot just talk to a 20th century computer).
Scotty trying to talk to the mouse will always make me laugh. every. single. time.
This series is so much better than i expected. I love it.
love this episode, love this show. A great set of episodes so far.
I love how we saw some new species that were assimilated as well as some unusual decisions for the prosthetics like the hammerhead drone.
most people are commenting on the chat but I'll just say I loved this episode and love Ups and Downs
Agree 100%
This show is all the stuff I like about Star Trek.
This channel is all the stuff I used to love about TH-cam.
This show continues to impress me every week as it grows.
I found another easter egg. After Gwyn walked past the Borg she tried to contact the others, by calling out: "Dal? Rok? Are you there?" Seems to me to be a very deep cut reference to the Dal'Rok from the DS9 episode "The Storyteller", and maybe the very reason these characters got those names in the first place.
Is Cetacean Observations not going to comment on the Com Badges with the two bars being the Alternative/Dark Timeline Com badges???
Thank you for more Prodigy videos!!!!
I like anything star trek. Thank you for all the work you do
I haven't been watching these "Ups & Downs" because I'd like to binge watch this season. However I tuned into this one, cause I've missed seeing Sean on screen. If you see this homie, we reply a little on Twitter, but I totally miss your face.. I mean hosting.. yeah hosting videos. 😆
Simply Lovely
Personally felt the Gwynn scene was the first time the Borg felt like they were intended to be scary in probably half my lifetime
The darks were darker, the greens were greener. It was the most horrific of the borg they have ever shown I think....and for the kids....hahaha
I'm not sure I agree about Gwyn and the borg. The diviner came from the future, it's quite possible the borg in his time were more passive via Jirati or the neuropathic virus from janeway in endgame. Coming back in time the borg could have easily been assumed as a nonthreat, and if other cubes like this one were also offline the borg could have become a faded memory in the delta quadrant by this point. 5 years or so with no borg encounters could do that making them nothing more than a myth or legend to people to talk about in ghost stories.
…In five years? Five years after 9/11, no one talked about Al Qaeda that was.
Prodigy is great for the same reason Clone Wars was great: It's a kid's show that respects the kids watching it. Kids can handle heavy stuff!
Sincerely,
A kid who read Cujo at age 6
I just came off a fresh viewing and I think the mention that a ‘neuroletic outbreak’ that caused the ship to go dormant might also explain why they didn’t use the probe tube method. The nanites were disabled
Keep them coming!
Massive thumbs up for the concept of flying the Protostar inside the cube. Those things are BIG!
Umm, the tellarite doctor was fully in character.
Sean, your hair looks amazing! Thanks for the great episode analysis.
Wicked episode!!
Good afternoon Sean, I am happy with this episode it was good.
"Someone's not getting a promotion" no, his name isn't Harry Kim
I love the different Borg designs. Some of the head peices are interesting and over-elaborate. They're more like Cenobites which is terrifying.
I was thinking the same thing there was one with like a Long head that I really liked
It's amazing how much further you can go with the cybernetics when you don't have to glue them onto a live actor...
It was great seeing a non-human-looking drone. An advantage of animation I guess.
Fantastic!
8:30 Sean... did you forget about maturation chambers? Maybe the Borg recognized them as juveniles and so were taking them there? The Borg have also adapted to circumvent other things, so why does dragging them instead of using tubules that can be deflected and damage juvenile material. Just sayin'
keep these ups and downs coming please
Thanks for the vid!
So no-one noticed that they added a Prodigy version of the "Star Trek" intro this week (that wasn't there last week)?
Where ?
@@eoghanlacey6384 At the very beginning at least on Paramount Plus
The bridge of Adm. Janeway’s Dauntless mirrors the one from the same episode in VOY. Keep in mind Arturis “generated” that bridge as a holographic simulation, but on this ship it’s the exact same. Kinda cool throwback Sean.
It’s a sad day when even the animated versions of my fictional friends are to old for coffee
I was hoping Robert Picardo would be back as Voyager's EMH, now serving as chief medical officer on the Dauntless.
I love the Prodigy!
You should go rewatch The Raven. Seven is very clear she was taken from the ship and became borg on their vessel. Combine that with The Collective and it should be obvious that the most likely explanation was that, as kids, the Protostar crew were getting prepped for maturation chambers. Looking forward to the retraction!
17 cycles of maturation per Seven's first reaction in social discourse.
The great part about animated Borg is you get to see all the assimilated species which are not just humans with forehead ridges
I love ST Prodigy.
Thanks! 👋
love some of the drone designs
I’m glad you ended up and downs just started prodigy really needed it it tells everyone that it’s a real Star Trek show I believe I love canon watch especially this week I completely agree about Jean way and the borg !
I always feel the sass from doctors in Star fleet comes with the territory like what's the captain of admiral going to do fire them? They are essentially the only thing that prevents certain death in their professions no wonder they are all sass
I noticed that as well. Follows the trope of cranky, self assured, arrogant Star Trek doctor which I don't mind at all.
So there is a lore friendly theory about the nano probes in that after voyager used them to defeat the Undine and returned to Earth, the borg stopped using them out of fear starfleet knew too much about that method and had a means to counter it, which was given more credence by the time janeway allowed herself to be assimilated temporarily and admiral janeways sacrifice and how it hobbled them.
Still loving prodigy. It's some harmless trek fun that doesn't talk down to the viewers because it's geared for kids. Found it interesting that it's implied Borg can look upon medusans in their true form. Loved the Borg designs too. Finally I just love we get a new star trek episode every week now. Just...what a renaissance we're having now ☺️
Did people forget that STVOY's Admiral Janeway said she gave up coffee? Has a cup with Captain Janeway in the past and says "I don't know why I ever gave this up". Seeing the teacup I immediately remembered and thought a doctor had to have recommended it.
Sean is so cute when he's angry. I mean he's normally cute, but also when he's angry.
I loved to see more different Borg-drones
I have to totally agree the Borg use the nanoprodes as part of the assimilation so by that alone the kids weren't in any real danger of being assimilated sure they could of installed the "upgrades" but the major control of drones was the nanoprobes spreading through out the body. Look at "First Contact" the nanoprodes had started to assimilate any crew member without the camber!
I really like the look of the cube.
When I first watched this episode I did not like it at all and felt the borg storyline was unbelevable. This video did make me rethink some of the issues I thought I saw with the episode. Still think the episode could have used some work (mainly with how the protostar was able to just fly away from the borg cube with no issues at all). That being said I actually am ok with this episode now. I also will counter your argument about the tellerite and I loved it. I remember when they were first seen on enterprise and how archer talked with them when first seen and they were just throwing the most horrible insults at eachother and the interaction with janeway in this episode totally made me think of that. I loved it.
Ya make every show better Sean
Sean, I’m with you on Janeway’s reaction lol!!!
I do believe that the lack of nanoprobes/tubes was brought up when they were discussing going aboard the Cube, and trying to figure out why it was just resting in space.
Hopefully, Janeway will get her beloved coffee back at some point 😃
Was it just me or did the living construct look kinda like the Synth tentacles from hell in disco s2 and picard s1?
Definitely visually similar. Perhaps that could be an interesting connection.
Pretty sure they Sikarians were assimilated well before Voyager returned from the Delta Quadrant
Cannon watch has gotten so much better!
Who knew that all you needed to shut down a cube was a medusan and The Power Of Friendship?
CETACEAN OBSERVATION!!! Janeway's teacup is the world-famous Picard teacup design from Next Gen!! I have a set of four of these and they're the pride of my "trek props from real-world items" collection!! Bodum brand, if anyone is curious. 🙂
I think they are doing a good job, so far this season (second half of the season).
I didn’t know they’d released that picture of Janeway drinking tea! That’s brilliant! I wonder how many people thought she was from the mirror universe.
It's definitely a fair argument about how the Borg seemed de-fanged this episode. However, I personally felt they were still very impressive and a definite threat. I certainly think they were more darker and threatening than in "Lower Decks", although obviously that's a comedy show. I had expected the Prodigy Borg to be more like the LDS Borg than the ones we're familiar with in the live-action shows. But, they honestly felt like a proper, scary threat in this. They went back to the whole relentless, slow, unstoppable force they were originally conceived of in TNG. The Protostar crew only manage to get off one or two shots before the Borg adapt. Also, our characters can very much run away from them fast, but it's the sheer numbers and the fear of the drones slowly marching towards you which is where they're most scary. I also liked how there were a few variations of drones. You had some which were bigger and meaner. You had some which looked like Hammerhead Sharks. I thought this was a great choice, as it's something they can obviously do in animation. I was also very happy in how the Protostar crew leaves the Cube intact, rather than the usual cliche of overloading the power systems so it explodes or something. We all know the Borg will be back, so it's stupid trying to make it seem like they won't! Finally, I was very happy to hear little bits of Joel Goldsmith's Borg synth theme working it's way into the score!
Fun. Realized have been mixing vinculum and speculum, though Borg likely have used both.
& congrats to Prodigy for their Emmy nomination!
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes!!!!
Sean I love ya, and I agree with most of what you say in most Ups & Downs, but it's been bugging me for so long I'm finally going to say something: my wife and I find Canon Watch to be tedious and pointless. It makes us sad because we find everything else about Ups & Downs just great, even when we disagree with your assessments.
Agreed. I have to skip that segment each week
Spot on about how the show is written... Doctor Who used to be that way... written for kids but introducing mature concepts...
Yo, cetacean ops: the cup of tea… Looks exactly as the one replicators served onboard the Enterprise D!
I just subscribed
on the one hand, holo-janeway has to weigh the pro/con of risking a handful of kids to remove a deadly weapon to the very life of the federation itself. as in, is a gamble with her crew vs the life of every federation member world, which is worth more? the needs of the many and on top of that, these kids are going in eyes wide. that's like, kobayashi maru level of command decisions. you're not going to like 'em all, but it is, i think, understandable. the pros and cons were weighed and if you can't get federation resources to tackle the problem, borg resources are superior with the caveat that they might assimilate you.
Aside from the general revitalizing of the Borg, the Protostar rivals or surpasses the Borg's transwarp conduits, so that's another tasty technology they could add, and one that would at least allow for a redundancy to supplement their normal top speed techniques.
I think the issue is, this wasn't a borg cube that was fully functioning. Even when the Borg came online, you could see only a fraction were active. Before they went on board, they were told the Borg were having a problem and the cube had to shut down. This was not a normal Borg encounter, the kids got very lucky.
I presume they couldn't all wake up, because of the problem. Its a cube that can't do what the borg normally do.