Vintage Vs new amplifiers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2021
- In one of Paul's earlier videos he suggested it's better to buy a newer amplifier than recapping an older, vintage amp. Here's a customer response and question.
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I love vintage. Not used and abused unless I plan on fixing it. And modern vintage is insane. Just picked up a QSC amp that's almost 10 years old, church used (and looked like it), listed for 2 grand new, 200 bucks to my house. You have to keep in mind I'm 52 years old. Stuff a decade or two old was crazy futuristic stuff at one point in my life. Couldn't afford it then but today I can buy the best of the best of 10 years ago for pennies and there really hasn't been a big enough change in the audio world to warrant the purchase of something new.
Damn Paul you look incredible for 72. Whatever you are doing it’s working
Probably the "audiophile version" of sex, drugs and rock n' roll. 😆
Paul is Vegitarian and watches his diet... nuf said
A lucky draw of genetics don't hurt either.
He re-capped himself
I had my approx. 30 years old Naim 250 recapped last year; included uprated reservoir caps and cost a little under $200 dollars by a local specialist, the current new equivalent (which has fundamentally the same circuitry but different cosmetics) retails at over $3000. There's no way that I could have bought an new amplifier of similar quality for the same price as a recap. Also the naim was considered state of the art when I bought it; I'm sure technology hasn't moved on to the point where a $200 amplifier is going to outperform it. Also, from an ecological point of view, there's no point sending perfectly good, serviceable equipment to landfill
quite right..paul is spouting his usual bollox
Yes lots of good older designs still going strong nothing really new in amp design
I recapped my two vintage Nikko amps (built 1981) a few years ago. I've been very happy with the results. I can tell you for sure that shelling out an additional $6k for two new amps was out of the question. I have several friends with high dollar systems and a couple of them sound equally good, but none of them are blowing my vintage setup out of the water. I think its all a matter of income and opinion anyway.
@@edjackson4389 Remember to compare amplifier to amplifier not a system to system. Speakers today are still hard to make
@@johnholmes912 Otherwise how to sell new amps? 🙂
A recent hobby of mine is refurbishing old receivers and turntables. I have to say that when I'm finished they sound great!
Modern capacitors and transistors are so much better than old ones. I put Panasonic or Nichicon "standard" caps in power supply or regulation circuits. I put "FG" Nichicons and WIMA film caps in audio path circuits. Upgrade the size of the filter caps, replace failure-prone old transistors and you're good to go. On average, I might have about $120 in new parts. Worth every penny, and the resurrected component will outlive me.
I’m elderly as well. In 1962 I talked my parents out of purchasing a Zenith console stereo and into a Fisher 500 B receiver. In 1972 they went to a solid state receiver and gave the Fisher 500 B to me. It has resided in my bedroom since then along with my vintage 1985 VPI turntable, Oppo SACD player, Cambridge Audio CNX music streamer which I use to listen to BBC Radio 3 and a pair of Bowers and Wilkins small bookshelf speakers. I had the receiver totally restored about ten years ago. It will be with me until my time here is over. Thanks Paul for your daily videos.
I finished the re-cap/ rebuild on my Counterpoint amp (Paul's video "How Far Can You Take Vintage Electronics") and *Holy $hit!* I'd put it up against almost any new amp. Very pleased with the results.
Did same with my Silver Seven’s and TFM-45’s. Will NEVER part with my Carver’s!
I'm running the Amp I purchased in 1984! Sony TA 555ES and couldn't be happier. It was stored unused for 25 years...It's a joy just turning it on and hearing that relay clack.... The sound is just as good as anything made today
No, it does not sound as good as today's "stuff"....it sounds BETTER!!!!!
Same here, I got a new Sony TA-2650 amplifier in 1978. It's still going strong with the tuner, turntable and speakers I purchased with it that same year.
In addition to my Carver Silver Seven’s and TFM-45, I run a Sony TA-N9000ES (and accompanying TA-E9000ES Processor) for my 5.2 home AV, and could not be happier!! Sony in the 90’s created some amazing ES gear!
I will keep running my elderly and cheap junk.
Junk ? No. Elderly that performs yes🙂
@@jmp622 I am looking into vintage pa equipment so the line is very thin
I got an old school Technics SA-300 receiver. But I bet it doesn't have a 120 db signal to noise ratio that my Audiolab amp's supposed to have.
@@Justwantahover I have been running an sa500. What a great amp
Great amplifiers have been made decades ago and are made today. The recipe is still the same: passionate audio engineers with deep understanding and experience are allowed to make the best of product possible.
The thing is the engineer usually isn't the one with the check book paying for it. So the company will say you have a $40 budget, so that's why most have cheap components and that is where the "greatness" is and it's just the way the cookie crumbles. Take the same design, but good components and then you have something.
@@ranbymonkeys2384 Products designed for high volume mass production often get engineered towards a target BOM cost and the lower the BOM cost the more the profit. Very audiophile gear produced in low volume production is sold at a high price where the BOM cost can be a small fraction of the MSRP thus it's usually not a concern to choose the best components available. Reality nowadays is that transistors, resistors, capacitors, inductors, op-amps etc. often cost pennies and audio fidelity is much more about very skilled circuit design in how you use them than the component cost itself.
@@ThinkingBetter To give you an example I use muses01 and muses02 op amps that are $50 each also I like to use sparkos discrete op amps around $70 each Burson is really good at around $80. I like using WIMA film caps $5 for a 1uF pure polypropylene and occasionally Nichicon 10uF film caps around $20 each. I know what cheap components are trust me.
@@ranbymonkeys2384 JRC knows how to price their silicon high for audiophile customers LOL. People claim to hear all sorts of improvement when they know they have paid 20 times more for an op-amp than what should be the price of it. Have you ever done a blind test with a muses op amp vs a quality TI op amp (e.g. OPA1656)?
sure thing think boy
Thanks for the video. One thing no one has mentioned is the nostalgia some of us elderly have. Some old design s are visually appealing.
I have been listening to a set of " vintage " valve ( tube ) Quad 22 pre-amp and two Quad 11 power amps for decades . It still gives me as much musical pleasure as it ever did . I just keep it serviced on a regular basis to keep it in full working order . To my ears it sounds a lot better than some of today's solid state equipment i have owned and heard .
I guess it depends. Last year I compared my vintage and recapped Krell with a set of PS-Audio M700 and had to decide to keep the Krell. Recap was about $500.
That crazy expensive, I’m glad I learned how to do those kinds of things myself!!
it’s still way cheaper than a modern amp, i wonder why he says it’s about the same price fixing than buying a new 🤷🏼
what is the difference between RECAP or RECAPPED to REFURBISHED ?
@@graxjpg Crazy expensive? That is how much new gear cost to get the same enjoyment as vintage gear. $500 is appropriate for competent professional overhaul. Because see, it isn't only recapping, the amps get dc offset adjustment, bias, etc etc etc. Those who only "we-crap" vintage amps aren't even going half way. Hack "recaps" are lame.
@@doofwop new gear that’s as good as old gear is much more expensive. If you’re insinuating that my recaps are hack, I’ve got plenty of testimonials from clients at this point that satisfy any concerns I may have about my competence lol.
i think that there are a lot of quality old amps from the 80s that would blow most new amps out of the water including yours;
100% true
That's hilarious... i have owned many TOTL receivers from the 70s-80s.... now I own Macs, PAS Labs and some PS audio....forget blow them out of the water...thr new stuff destroys the old more lika an Atomic bomb... I highly doubt you even tried any of the stuff i listed above... The old stuff will NEVER be as resolving and dynamic as the current stuff...
@@SantanKGhey1234 receivers? hahaha....we are discussing quality amps
@@johnholmes912 I have wondered this myself. Most people assume that new amp modules will outperform because of miniaturization. But is it necessarily so? Can point to point wiring or old thick PCB with parts soldered on outperform new tiny PCBs with IC's?
@@SantanKGhey1234 Try old Tube from the late 60's just before the transistor revolution. Have a listen to my ancient system: th-cam.com/video/LzdpoZV8EMU/w-d-xo.html
I have my full Pioneer SA608 set and it still brings a smile to my face every time I play my tunes.
It’s all bells and whistles with all the ‘gadgets’ on its front panel. Dude, I have mission Cyrus one integrated amplifier I bought new in 1985 and still in use today. It only has 3 knobs on its front panel; volume, input selection and record selection. No balance, no treble, no bass knobs, nothing else. Only 25 wpc and is capable of driving difficult speakers that are rated down to 4 ohms! And it’s made in England 🏴
I’m a Pioneer SA-8800 and Pioneer SA-9000 owner. Plus, I have some Denon class”A” integrated amps from the past … 👍
Hi Paul, I'm a vintage fan, greetings from the Philippines.
A professional restoration/upgrade of a vintage amplifier will give you an amp that sounds better than it did new and sound about as good or better than anything being made today. I have rebuilt/upgraded LOTS of 30+ year old Hafler amps and they are amazing even by today's standards. And I can do it for a fraction of some of today's high-end audiophile amps that cost several thousand dollars. High-end sound does not have to cost an arm and a leg.
Very well said.
Hi, what do you think of MCintosh amps from around 2003 Era? Can they hold their own against the latest and greatest Class D amps, like Ncore, Pascal, etc?
Bottom line is that a well recapped vintage amp is a winner :)
Hi Paul, I have a Naimnate 1 amplifer 1983 and I cannot get a better sounding amp and I have tested about 10 new ones over the years and always go back to the Naim. It has never had a recap and still working fine.The amp operates cold and no light gets on to circuit, I think that is why the caps have lasted so long.You look great for 72 years , love the show,Brian
Carver amps are great . Bob is a twisted genius.
I got tired of messing around with vintage receivers, amps and turntables and made a modest investment of $350 in a Cambridge Audio integrated amplifier and couldn't be happier. It sounds great and I won't have to worry about anything for many years to come. Of course for someone with technical know-how that can make their own repairs I'm sure vintage gear is a great choice and working on them a great hobby or even vocation but more trouble than they're worth for those of us that just want to listen to good quality music.
I agree :) ! So I "imagine" the perfect sound with Hi Fidelity and High End devices is almost impossible to get. Assuming all that, I forget it and I discover that old devices, "vintage" devices, new, analog or digital devices, can give us excellent sound quality pointed in our purposes and the music we like. With an advantage of new devices: it is new, with new technology, and there are cheap, average or expensive depending the quality of materials. Some devices old or vintage could not bring DTS effect or Atmos, one new (skip the price) is a fantastic one. !
Always look forward to these vids no matter the subject always something intersting
Hi Paul,
Thank you for your entertaining videos, l enjoy them very much.
I have a vintage/old “Vacuum State FVP” pre-amplifier that I purchased new in 1982. I purchase this over a Audio Research and VTL preamp for its superb phono stage.
I have on a number of occasions done factory approved updates and mods to bring it up to current spec over the years. I have also update the power amps and sources many times over the years. l am very satisfied and I haven’t heard a better phono stage to this day, that I can afford or that sounds better to my ear.
Gosh I like all of these videos. Always puts a smile on my face
Thanks!
My mapleshade HH Scott 222d integrated was one of the best amps I’ve ever heard until I purchased the Leben integrated amp. The low power vintage tube amps with strategic updates can be terrific.
It is a great time to be an audiophile on a budget.
Bad time to be an amplifier maker of overpriced product
Well done Darren and Paul plus the Elves for your M1200 Brilliant review in ABSOLUTE SOUND from a sceptical reviewer.
Paul, I have 2 Aragon 8008X3's, an 8008BB & an 8002 (basically a rebadged Acurus). They're about 30 years old, but I've had them recapped and they sound great and are rock solid. They & my speakers (Energy Veritas 2.8 & 1.8's, Triad in-room Gold) have been the best audio investments I've made. In the same time, I have gone through so many different AVP's (HK Citation, Proceed AVP, EAD, Marantz 8802-A, etc.).
Spend your $$'s on good quality amps & speakers and they'll last a long, long time.
I've got a "vintage" Sansui AU9500 and I would definitely recap it one day. Hailed as the best solid state amp ever made by Sansui and possibly even the best ever of the 70s and early 80s. This type of equipment is what I can afford but allows me to listen to quality HIFI at a fraction of the price. Not for everyone but there is a place. Also these classics should not be forgotten, you wouldn't forget about a 63 split window vet or a 32 Ford just because modern sport cars blow them out of water for performance...that's just my 2 cents. I love modern gear too btw.
The best ever would be B2301/B2302, the amplifier that put them out of business
Got one too, sound Fantastic ! I'm recapping in as and when.
Not sure at all a modern amplifier will sound better :D
Love you videos Paul very informative you're such a character I wish I had a boss like you ..
Good explanation Paul.
Still using my main amp with its original 6922 / 6DJ8 / ECC88 preamp tubes from 1995 that still registers ok on a tube tester.
I started my journey into the audiophile world a year ago at the age of 22, buying myself a pair of B&W 685 S2s along with a vintage Quad 405-2, and they sound fantastic. Clean, expressive, with very clear imaging and broad dynamics. Granted this is my first system, I'm sure a more advanced or modern one would blow it out of the water, but I love it - my little Quad especially. For only £300 I got the legendary current dumping amp with 100W per channel into 8 ohms and a sound that, to my (admittedly untrained) ears anyway, sounds just as good as any other system that I've trialled. This is without the Toroidal transformer and cap upgrades that I have planned for it in the next year. It looks amazing too, the massive heat sinks and industrial 1980s design is timeless.
The 405-2 is an excellent amp, I use a Marantz 2230 as a pre with a pair of Klipsch Fortes as my vintage set up and I much prefer the sound to my newer more costly system, the newer kit is too bright and fatiguing to my ears.
Good for you, dude! I’m on the opposite extreme from where you are and I appreciate your I interest in vintage gear. Paul’s position that a PS Audio Sprout sounds far better than an old Bob Carver amp is up to the ears of the person hearing them and their sound preference. A lot depends on what you’re listening to. Everyone has differs musical tastes and the system pushing it out makes a difference to what you hear. Hip hop, Rap versus old school rock n roll vs classical is an obvious example..
I have my original Macs, Tamberg series pre and amp tuner seperates, as well as Akai 747 reel to reel and Nakamichi Dragon, Mac Syatem Anaylzer all bought circa 1970 along with Home theater Carver Sunfires bought 20 years ago.. all powredvand used weekly. Except for the scope where I refurbished the power stage and changing of belts and recapping the Mac preamp a dozen years ago, peer audio manufacturers have come to my home and auditioned my equipment. Swapping out the Mac or Tanberg preamp with a Rowland Capri or a swap of the amps with the latest Butler Audio mono blogs when played on Lawrence Cellos or JBL original LS112, sounds still good to us all.
I just installed the power cap (C9) and speaker coupling caps (C7) in a *truly* vintage Dynaco SCA-80Q (I actually have TWO of them!) along with new RCA input panels. Total cost was $67USD. The improvement made by the capacitors was absolutely amazing! Is this amp high end? No, of course not. It serves as the amp for my back porch and outside speakers. So the value for money is certainly there. I agree that a complete recap of something as old as a Carver 400 *as someone’s main system” would probably be a waste of money. What I think is more sensible is to weigh the *purpose or context* of a piece of vintage gear, the pleasure it might bring in doing the work vs. the cost. I’m currently looking to buy a Sansui TU-717 turner; it may even need or deserve some upgrades as documented on the tuner info site. Worth it? Especially given FM is an “obsolete” medium? Maybe not to some, but for someone like me who loves analog, the value proposition is different than from many others. And, BTW, I learned some things while doing the Dyna upgrades ... like how to read a schematic, voltage test points, how to document before/after, etc.
I respectfully disagree with you about recapping the Carver 400's. I have a pair of M400a's that I am running as "monocubes", which can deliver 400w/ch into 8ohms, for one of my main systems. At some point I will probably recap each amp myself, as I have that skill set & time now that I am retired. The main reason I would do it would be more to prevent an electronic failure than a sound improvement. I believe there are a few other items to replace on those amps as well, but right now they sound really good to me. Good luck with the Sansui TU-717- FM is alive and well in my book.
@@SLCVideoProductions agree on the Carvers. Any of them will be incredible with a competent overhaul.
@@doofwop So I actually created my own audio channel for vintage audio since my post here. I ended up pulling both the M400a's out of the system they were in, mainly to test them for a future video and let another one of my amps get some work in. Both of the M400a's need to be recapped- can't get but maybe 80-100w/8ohms out of them and they are very noisy measurement-wise. I only heard a bit of low level ticking when they were idling with no music. Can't wait to see what they will do when they are recapped.
At 72 you have super energy
Keep the momentum. Hope I can be that spirited when I am 70
People love to dump on Carver because he's an iconoclast that found a brilliant solution to bring high end sound to the masses at affordable prices. A lot of the cork-sniffing crowd didn't like that a $600 Carver could outperform their Conrad Johnson monoblocks at $3,000 each.
You didn’t mention the name of Nelson Pass, who’s considered the Godfather of S/S Class A HiFi components. His Threshold line in the 80’s had the best clarity vs Levinson, Krell, etc. In the mid 90’s his Aleph amps were proclaimed by many, to be the amp of the decade. Most of the best designers favor simple circuit topography, but insist on the scoping/matching of high quality parts, to maintain signal purity. Vintage may be old, but not outdated! Restoring them by a competent tech is vital. Modern HiFi hasn’t improved dramatically sound quality-wise, it’s only gotten more overbuilt, glitzy & has more circuitry than needed. Find a 80’s Threshold amp or 90’s Pass Labs amp, spend a few hundred having it restored. You’ll save thousands in the long run, & have equipment as good, if not better than today’s overpriced offerings👍🏆😎.
In order to find something new that can compete with my Harman Kardon A402 (300 bucks) you are gonna have to spend AT LEAST 1k. And usually modern stuff has a much shorter life span than vintage stuff. So I'd take vintage everyday of the year
How can you say modern stuff has shorter life span when a PS audio amp built perhaps 5 years ago is still in use and it certainly has not had the advantage of time yet when compared to something old????
May you have many more decades with us Uncle Paul :o)
I took my Audiolab 8000Q and 8000M's to be checked out by one of my customers who used to work for them many years ago, his garage was a wall of test equipment. He ran a series of checks on the amps and told me he'd leave them alone until something went wrong. After what, 30+ years they were all still up to spec and the power amps measured identically.
We made some amazing gear back then.
I think whats KEY here is Paul referring to PAYING someone to re-cap your amp. Yes that can get pricey depending on who your getting for the job. ON THE OTHER HAND, for those bold enough to break out the ole screw driver and solder station and DIY re-capping is CHEAP AS HELL!!!! Even if you choose to go for quality caps. I have an old subwoofer I am currently re-capping and the total cost of parts hasnt exceeded even $50 yet. Thats using all Nippon Chemi-con caps that meet or exceed the ripple current of the bad ones. The sub cost $850 in 1987, DIY re-capping is a NO BRAINER IMHO.
Nothing wrong with “new” to bought “used” contemporary amplifiers! But a couple of years ago, I had a 1974 Marantz 2270 (receiver @ 8 ohms 70 W, measured output @ 95 W) recapped, etc. & it might be hard to beat for the $210. costs. I bought a ($23.) Bluetooth adapter. Currently, it powers 2 sets of speakers, one set of 47 year old McIntosh ML 1 C, 4 way 12 in , & 27 year old NHT 1.1, 2 way 6.5 in speakers.
Actually vintage sounds much better than new audio equipment. I learned this in 1977, the first time I went to Audio Warehouse in Akron Ohio, when I was going to the University of Akron. I wanted to buy my first stereo receiver, and they had them all set up, with speakers so that you could switch from one receiver to another and compare the sound. I narrowed it down to a Harman Kardon receiver and a Pioneer receiver. The Harman Kardon sounded like I was listening to an orchestra out in the middle of a forest. The Pioneer sounded like it was in a box. Why? HK used only discreet components, resistors, transistors, capacitors, etc., and had a frequency response from 20 to 100kHz plus or minus 3 db. The Pioneer had started using ICs, which are limited in their frequency response to 20 to 20kHz. Currently the only receivers that still follow this philosophy are Onkyos. I bought an HK930 and an HK730 about 5 years ago and replaced all of the electrolytic capacitors. I can't tell you how musical, sweet, and nuanced they are. You couldn't give me a new receiver or monoblock amp. unless they only used discreet components, and I don't know of any that do.
I love my M500 MKII, absolutely amazing
I have a 35 year old Carver system that is just as resolving as my 15 year old Sunfire system , the main difference is Sunfire can double the power when you half the impedance down to 2 ohms and it sounds somewhat warmer and it sounds better than anything new I've heard that's near it's price. People who listen to my old Carver system are still impressed with it's sound/resolution after all these years.
Get it overhauled by a competent Carver tech and it will impress even further. Value of old Carvers are skyrocketing. Word is getting around.
@@doofwop Being an electronics tech with 40 years experience I have replaced all bad or questionable caps , replaced some undersized power resistors and the output relays ,re soldered some cold joints and re-calibrated it to factory specs ,and all the effort has improved the sound. I may repair and sell a unit I got for parts when I get the time..
I found a used, twenty-five year old 'vintage' Harman/Kardon Citation (the Steve Manz iteration) that was pretty cheap, but a 'brick with a click.' I decided to save it as it was so unique and rare.
Manz is still re-building these in California, but I had a local tech do the recap . . . 60 capacitors!
It is a powerful amp, four discrete power supplies . . . I bridge into 300 wpc channel which drive my Dahlquist DQ-10's (more restored vintage) effortlessly, producing 'live' sound and soundstage, 90 dB+ at 3 meters.
Wow, you just made me realize how old my Naim Nait is. I bought it in 1984 so it is probably time to upgrade. I would look into a trade in on a sprout but I made too many modifications.
I bet they would take it. Sprout is a great little integrated.
If you're happy with your Nait, why change it? The Sprout may be a fine little entry-level amp, but the Nait is in a higher class.
To my ears, the Naim Nait is galaxies ahead of the PS Audio Sprout in terms of sound quality.
Used to have a Naim Nait in a second system back in 84. Great amp, well worth servicing. Had Naim NAC42/Snaps/NAP110 in main system and still do. It still sounds incredible now 😎👍
I have 55year solid state technics which going strong without recapping 🔥✊
When my Harman Kardon Signature 2.1 is due for a repair or recap. I will invest in that amp. Best sounding amp i ever heard.
Some redesigning of the Carver amplifier can make then sound superb like the local feedback circuitry adding more distortion, changing op-amps can be beneficial like FET instead of bipolar older amplifiers changing transistors for modern transistors changing resistors for better type of resistor changing caps for different types of caps.
Up until recently I had a PS Audio Elite Plus integrated amp I bought new, decades ago, that would blow the socks off anything you'd care to put up against it. (had to sell it two years ago to pay bills and put food on the table otherwise I'd still be enjoying it.) Sold my PS Audio Phono Preamp II a few months prior to that (and the new owner wrote me back to say "What is this thing?" and told me how it was so much better than this much more expensive phono pre he owned. That phono amp was the first piece of audiophile equipment I bought. The salesman who sold it to me was a young guy named Mike Moffat, from a local store, Absolute Audio, a few blocks off the Santa Ana Frwy on 17th St. in Santa Ana. (I think Mike went on to do some other things in audio.) My friend, Mark Merlino, who later built the Lantana and Qysonic speaker lines, was my advisor in all things audio back then. In fact it was Mark who bought my Elite Plus when I had put it up on Ebay. He wrote to see if it was me selling it. We hadn't seen each other since I retired to Utah 5 years previously. I still had the original box which had an ingenious way they protected the amp during shipping. They shot some spray foam in the bottom and quickly laid a sheet of blue plastic over it then put the amp in and the foam expanded around everything for a perfect fit.
In 2003 I was putting together a Home theater system, after my divorce so cash wasn't readily available. I owned a Rotel RTC 965 pre-amp processor and was looking for a good used 5 channel amp. Read some reviews of a Carver av705x, found one on Ebay for $450. It was $1199 MSRP and both pro reviews and owner reviews were very good. I took the dive in. I still own that Carver today 18 years of great performance and great sound. Maybe I'm lucky that's my story
I recapped a Av705x and repaired the power supply diodes and run this amp in Stereo (180W/channel in stereo I think) with a CT-26 I picked up (both for less than $100), added a Carver DT-200 mkII for $60. New belts. Playing through a pair of Elac Debut 2.0 speakers ($250/pr) and for less than $500 I am very happy with this system in my bedroom.
Reading the comments below, majority of people agree that vintage equipments are still ruling! I personally don’t see a point paying stratospheric prices for todays Amps and think they sound magic and much better. Same goes to vintage watches, the amount of joy they bring are unmatched!
I paid £10 for my Vision AR-2600 amp. It was broken and cost me a bit of solder to repair a 100w 20+ year old amp. It sounds brilliant. You may argue that your amps are better and they maybe better - however I could never afford one (even second hand).
Love the sales pitch- sounds better- blows the socks off- classic sales pitches saying nothing- I’m a 71 X audio sales guy
Hello, he is here to promote his gear after all he is a salesman. Don't forget some decades ago they never heard of planned obsolescence. Greetings,Ed
If you can score a TOTL vintage amp for cheap (estate sale) as I did with a Yamaha B-2 its worth the $2K I paid for a full restoration. New modern speaker terminals. updated input/speaker board, the works. The vfet sound and power unlike anything I've heard.
as an electrical engineer i would dream working for you !
I recently unsoldered the power supply caps of my denon monoblocks, which were manufactured around 1990, so they are around 30 years old, which I would consider to be vintage. Heck, they are even older than I am, being in my early 20's. I measured their capacity and they have still ~94% of their original capacity. One day I would love to get some BHK series power amplifiers. Does your offer of testing and listening to your products also apply to Germany? Love the videos, I learn something new about audio and electronics every day. :)
Paul didn't you know the only tech that hasn't improved in the last 40 years is is audio... lol
That last line: "...I'm just elderly."
Nah, Paul--you're "vintage," of course!
No he's prehistoric!
I (original) own two Carver amps that are both mono blocked, Carver Silver Sevens’ and TFM-45’s. The Seven’s are mated to by Polk Audio SDS-SRA 1.2tl’s and the 45’s are mated to my Polk Audio RTA 11tl’s. Ever 10 years I replace the Seven’s tubes and have its inners cleaned and inspected. The 45’s have been serviced once by Rita’s.
I’ll never rid my Carver’s anything new. The warmth generated by the Seven’s and soundstage created by the 1.2’s are unparalleled.
PS: got my Polk’s and Carver’s while stationed at VAFB. That was when PS Audio was still in Santa Maria, CA. Time flies!
Hi from scotland paul no way ur that age maybe its your passion for everything that keeps you young or its terry keep up the good vids love them.
Glasgow?
@@godzilla12325 east kilbride
@@bigsteviesri sweet, im in Falkirk. Small world 😁👍
I have a 1973 Sherwood and 2007 Onkyo. The Onkyo is cleaner, but for radio listening, me and others I've tested on prefer the Sherwood. When comparing, the Onkyo sounds extremely clean; especially on digital sources and using the optical cable. USing a digital cable, there's no comparison. It's also just a more accurate sound all around. I think the biggest reason a modern receiver (not amp necessarily, but a combo) might sound much better is the simple reason of the digital signal it is capable of getting. Still, when tuning in a signal, I don't use the autotune on the Onkyo, I use the Sherwood's dial.
Why can't more tube manufacturers use polypropylene filter capacitors in their high voltage power supplies rather than electrolytic capacitors which have a limited shelf life? I like them in the 1000 Volt power supply pi filters for my DIY 833A SET amplifiers.
It's that soft "bye" at the end of every video that makes me feel at home. Idk, maybe I'm wierd
Comforting right?! :D
You’re not weird. It’s a soothing, calm, heartfelt “bye” that melts into you. Ok, maybe I’m weird.
First, one has to make apples-to-apples comparisons. I often find people comparing vintage flagship amplifiers or receivers to mid-level modern ones. Of course, the vintage ones sound better in such cases. Secondly, though capacitors are most likely the first things to need replacement, eventually other parts of old amplifiers will need repair (I have owned several). My experience has led me to fully agree with Paul that the best bargains with sound quality in mind are found in buying amplifiers that are four or five years old. Vintage audio is admittedly a cool hobby, though.
The reason you compare a vintage flagship to a mid-level modern amplifier is because of cost. I picked up two Aragon 4004 MK2 for $500 each. Comparing that $500 bucks to what $500 bucks can get you in new gear and the winner is very clear.
@@keithalexander36 I said it was others who make such comparisons. Those are great amps you bought, and that is, for some reason, the going price for them. Still, it is hard for me to consider something made in the 90s vintage since I was born in the 50s and sold audio gear in the 90s (I still own much gear from that era). Personally, I consider components from the 70s and earlier to be vintage (though I have heard others say from the 80s and earlier) -- but your definition of the term might differ from mine, which is fine.
Older 50+ year old tube amps or the combination design tube and transitor amps like Eico, Altec, Dynaco, etc. Are those worth keeping up on?
I'm still using my pre Carver C , 19 Tube and my Sumo Andromeda amplifier the only upgrade I did was to change the interc
I got a classic vintage amp (Technics SA-300) and it is bright enough and definitely doesn't seem to roll off in the treble (but might right up top) and the bass does roll off just enough to be able to tell. A large inductor and a very small resistor (in parallel) on the woofers might do the trick. That's something I would do if I used that receiver as my listening amp. Maybe also have a 1mf cap and .47 ohm resistor (in parallel) on the tweeter. I also have my Audiolab (new) amp. And I bet my old school receiver doesn't have a 120 db signal to noise ratio (that my Audiolab claims).😆
Paul, apart from Class D, most other amplifier circuit topologies are quite old now. So surely, only the quality of parts used sets the old amps apart from new one?
I'm invest in 4 tube amps and 2 years and more money than I'd have spent if I'd spent it on something new
...... BUT, I didn't know a thing two years ago and I've learned a lot about what makes a good system.
I've also learned how to make many costly mistakes chasing the tubbby dream.
Paul, I'm a "tinkerer" I like to replace cheap products with great caps and I tried your "bypass" idea and holy smokes. I got to thinking what if I "bypass" a .01 uF with a .001 uF. I have bypass caps all over the place.
At the end of the day it's still the speakers that you are listening to. What he's saying that if you buy a vintage used piece of equipment that in the long run the money you spend on repairs could equal the cost of a new one. I have a Rotel separate power amplifier that I bought in 1994 and it still hasn't failed me and sounds great.
Hi Paul, I have a older Pioneer M-72 4x100 amp. Was curious if it made sense to use the M-72 to bi amp my L/R Polk LSI9s. I'm currently using a Yamaha RXA 3080 to run my 5.1.2 system. I thought using the amp would to some load off the Yamaha. Being retired I thought of using the old gear The Pioneer was just on a shelf not being used. Thanks Ron
Vintage vs modern is one I can't decide for myself. I wasn't a fan of vintage speakers until I got some klh 6 and wow what a bargin! Great performers but admittedly colored. Vintage amps(late 70's) are really enjoyable esp on 90's and earlier music. But when it's all said and done I listen to my modern gear more. My solution is to buy lots of gear then mix and match,rotate.
LOL "colored"? How do you know? Were you there in the studio when it was recorded? How do you know the sound is "colored"?
Re-capped a friends inherited Quad 405-2, I think it was around £100 for parts inc the op amps and power caps. Sounds really good - weighty and warmish, and significantly better in texture and detail than it did initially. However, starting from scratch they command a 'vintage appeal' price tag, and if you had someone do the work the overall cost would be working against you I think.
btw; a complete birds nest of wire and switching all to make the thing compatible with a plethora of voltage supplies - ripped all that out and hard wired the transformer to 240v. On top of that, signal cable strapped to mains I think to make it look neat - isolated all that.
Morale; think twice about buying it but don't chuck it out!
will me keeping my musical fidelity a370 thank you very much :)
Reminiscing returns is true .The problem is finding direct replacements parts .Transistors are out of production and replacing to get same characteristics is like custom building one from scratch
Hey Paul!
You make very valid points especially regarding the values of 5-10 year old equipment and relatively young ages. What brands of this age equipment do you like? I’m a vintage equipment guy and not knowledgeable about the newer stuff. Thanks
Awesome sound quality from the past often still is awesome. But how many amps really sounded awesome, knowing how an amp can sound these days? Then there is musical sounding and perhaps audiophile. At the end of the day what most matters to me is if my system invites me to enjoy the music and sound every time again.
I may be biased, but I think my 39-year-old Luxman sounds pretty awesome. And that's with its original caps!
@Jingle Nuts 40 years ago, most standard parts would be considered "high end" today. Cost-cutting was rife in the 80s, and that's left a permanent scar on the electronics industry. Look at the cheap-ass microswitches on today's amplifiers - they're the same ones you find in a $10 mouse.
I can get a vintage Amp recapped for less than $200. Pre-amp power amp phono amp the works.
I don’t really think that you can get the highest quality capacitors for only $200. Why would you want to use types of capacitors that have been surpassed with newer technology capacitors that are made for audio equipment specifically. That doesn’t make much sense to me. But if it makes you happy, that’s all that matters.
Thats great but its more than bad caps and other electrical components that make them inferior to modern amplification. Now weather you prefer the sound of a particular vintage vs modern amp thats up to the listener. Obviously buy what you like but doesn't necessarily mean its better than the next amp. To many people mix subjectivity with objectivity in audio. You want to know whats objectively better go over to AudioScienceReview. You want what subjectivity better for you, use your own ears.
@@iowaudioreviews I am not an objective listener most of the time. Measurements have their place but it takes qualified design engineers to interpret what they measure to understand where to make changes in the circuit. I’m a music lover first and foremost. I just know about the progress in the component area so if you’re going to make a change your amp you may do some due diligence locating quality capacitors of the proper type for each area that you’re working in.
@@stimpy1226 If a capacitor performs to spec year after year after year after year, that's a quality capacitor. And a lot of humble 40-year-old caps are still doing just that.
@@thisisnev I never meant to turn this into a debate. Everyone has their own ideas and if it works for that person that’s great. Because I recommend some thing that doesn’t mean it may be for you.
As we get older ... Do we except that our ears are not as good as 20 yrs ago????? I have upgraded my system over the yrs & still feel happy with what I have... Coming up 72yrs in 8 wks & my ears are still ok??? But would I hear the difference ??? Maybe... Maybe not ??? But with what I have I love.... Because I can't afford anymore.. So I live with what I have & enjoy it.. Rock & Roll never dies...
Might have to build the sprout into a 19 inch box with 2 giant VU meters and a whole lot of pots and switches.
With age comes wisdom Paul. Are you still hiking with a large format camera to get that great shot? Think I saw a photo of you kayaking with Terri so you ain’t that old in your body and you certainly think young. We all know now that age is just a number. Just keep moving, it’s hard to hit a moving target.😎
And yes, when it comes to vintage audio electronics, you may be correct but I still love my Audio Research VT-100 Mk III amp. I’ll be re-tubing this baby within another couple of weeks with Telefunken Black Sable tubes. If I have to recap this amp I’ll do it myself with the best capacitors that I can afford and possibly higher quality, tighter tolerance resistors as well. That should breathe new life into the sound of my system which still sounds terrific today.
Since I owned a Phase Linear amplifier many years ago, I certainly agree with you that any current PS Audio amp would blow your socks off in comparison.
I have equipment that is 40 or more years old that sounds plenty good to me without replacing any parts,
and if it needed parts replaced I could do it myself at a fraction of the cost of a new unit.
You're correct in being cautious about the word vintage, I would far listen to my music through my Leak TL12's than a modern pair of amplifiers only because I like the sound it makes which I know is not super clean and does have that lovely valve sound. However, I have an ageing Krell KSA150 in mint condition who has now given up the ghost recently and I am wondering if it's really worth having it stripped down and rebuilt, it's been loyal for the past 25 years but possibly I'll sell it for scrap. It would possibly be cheaper to buy another amp than have this one restored, the down side is you just don't know the history of someone else's second hand amp and how they have used it or heaven forbid had it repaired.
I do have 25 old diy hybrid amps monoblocks and they are unbeaten. Except for some monster Krells with hudge power supplies who can have a bit tighter or cleaner bass. The reaon for this is that good sounding circuits are well known for decades and there are no major changes except from class D. So you focus on good components and good voltage supplies. Modern amps tend to gave additional circuitry for convenience (integrated circuits for switching and controling) while old amps choose for mechanical switching with less sound degrading circuitry. Specially todays cheap all in one crap will sound inferior compared to a decent vintage.
I owned a Cambridge CX80 amp. A few years ago I picked up a Sansui AU517 for 400.00. I got it recapped for 500.00 (payed too much in my opinion). So I have a 900 restored dinosaur amp and a Cambridge. The Sansui beats it hands down whether I’m using digital or CD. I use a Shitt phono amp and the Sansui wins easily.
Thanks. How much would a DS audio power amplifier cost ? Whare can I buy one ?? Any suggestions
Hard to find one of them.
I purchased a couple of old Sansui units, their 2000 and 4000, they sound incredible. I will be going through both and recapping and replacing anything else that is needed. I cannot part with them.
I recently acquired a Prinz Sound Model a-5000 and am having issues understanding how to hook up a sub to this vintage amp. Any tips?
Around two years ago I was very lucky ,I have bought a rare ! new never been used in the original sealed box ADCOM GFA 555MK2 , To find like this condition it is once in a life time . any way it was at the seller stored in his closet for more then 20-25 years and as I mentioned in original sealed box, It is sound amazing and I am not gonna replaced it or thinking to do it, it sounds amazing and it is a beast of an amp. I have paid 600$ and plus shipping to Israel and tax another 200$, so total 800$ and believe me I am lucky, and I don't see any reason to recap it as it is new even if it was babed for more then 20 yrs.
check the bias and DC offset. them Adcoms can be grossly off even from new. Make sure both channels run the same temp.
@@keithalexander36 Hey Kith , yes I have checked the bias and DC offset it is easy to do, and yes both channel warm the same. Thanks 👍
Made me laugh.
😉 Looking great for 73.
🎶🎶🎶👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I got a old amplifier from 1982 it's 41 years and it's never been recup and it still works so does the radio turntable tape recorder it's all 41 years old and it still
There are some really good vintage amplifiers from the 70s / 80s / 90s, but there are also a lot of really mediocre amplifiers from that time period as well that were marketed quite heavily. Remember, the Phase Linear wasn't famous for being the best sounding amplifier on the market... it was just an enormously powerful amplifier that was wasn't outlandishly expensive.
Where the sweet spot can be is in some of the 90s and early 2000s professional equipment. It usually isn't a huge project to get it up to snuff and much of it has really excellent performance.
Hello Paul, I am thinking on phasing out my vintage amp and get a Sprout100. Are there plans for a newer version anytime soon?
Nope. No changes contemplated for Sprout. We're selling them as fast as we can get them. And, on that note, due to pandemic semiconductor shortages we will likely run out in the next week or so for as much as 5 months. Ugh.
@@Paulmcgowanpsaudio Thank you! I guess better now than never.
solid state have improved a lot but old tube designs are still good and not expensive to improve due to simpler design and much less components
Have a listen to my ancient tube system: th-cam.com/video/LzdpoZV8EMU/w-d-xo.html
I think a modern boutique manufacturer like PS Audio that takes 2 channel audio seriously will be heavier built than a vintage 70s Marantz for example (which I love and own) But it's worth spending maybe up to 1500 or 2k restoring an old Marantz. Secondly define better. Better is subjective. Also I think we can all agree that the 70s was better than the 80s overall. I think a lot of those big brands regressed in the 80s and succumbed to cost cutting with inflation etc.
In today's world you have better tech but there is a lot of other things to consider. Yamaha, Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui etc had engineers out the wazoo in the 70s and all of this gear was auditioned at the dealer. Now we are mostly just going by word of mouth.