i lose track of how many times i watch each of these and continue to learn and remember more of what i didn't fullyabsorb the previous times. Long live Danny on TH-cam
Very enjoyable work, information and video here Danny, I hope this Vintage & New series continues for a good long time, really fun and interesting excercise here. 👍🏼
Another great video, Danny! I'm really surprised how much better the vintage KEF performed. Definitely excited to see the process on the next two speakers! 👍
I have desired to own a good system for years but could not afford it,but now I'm excited because there is hope.Thanks.I live in South Africa and due to the exchange rate and whether you can find them it's not easy.Thanks again.
A lot of thought has gone into the objective & results of this video I am impressed... For 40 years I have used various pairs of original Quad electrostatic speakers(57's) so I know all about impedance effects.
It's great to see some science brought to the world of audio transducers. All too often there are subjective opinions based dogma, fashion, placebo and an absence of physics knowledge. Keep up with the quantification. Subscribed!!
Danny - Looking forward to the B+W tear down - These were a very popular speaker in the day too include having the 801 as studio monitor - - I have a set of B&W towers I bought back in 1990 - Thanks
Love your videos. A huge number of people have the KEF LS50 speakers. If you can find ways to make them better you have a huge winner in views and sales :)
I want to thank you for the video you did on the explanation of how and why shielded interconnects work. I bought a couple pairs and the difference in my system is amazing!
Next week is the one I'll be waiting for! So fascinated by ATC speakers, been lusting for one of the SCM range. Looking forward to seeing the innards and what you think of them!
I bought a pair of vintage SCM20ASL about a year ago direct from a small studio. They are the active type and run most of the time in Class A. They have cast aluminium cabinets and weigh a ton! They sound amazing on good quality source material but might need the help of a sub, depending on your taste and music choices. I could wax lyrical all day about the sound all day but really you need to hear them for decide for yourself.
@Bob mind you, the model on the table is the SCM11, the 19 uses a different mid/bass. But still.. Can't wait.. Been searching for a look inside vid of ATC for ages lol
Take your point on the Kef cabinet .. I had a pair of so called 'classis' Spendor BC1 - and if you ran them with a oscillator, you could get the side panels to resonate at a particular frequency - it was very audible and ebn more obvious if you put your hand on it ! An old analogue oscillator wmis probably best for this test as you can quickly sweep throughcheck frequencies by rotating the big knob on the front !
Awesome Danny, much appreciated!!! It is nice coming to GR Research Speaker Engineering School and learning. Your experience is such that no vetting or double blind test / further analysis is required. Thank you sir! I have learned more here than the past 40 years associated to the consumer electronics HiFi field.
Seriously? You know they actually “sound better“. I think a few people would do better by selling your high-quality speakers, taking that money and buying an upgraded pair. Some of what he’s doing good dramatically change the characteristics of the speaker that you really like!
Hello Danny, My dad had a set of the Bose 501 series IV and when I took them apart - it was the first time that I saw a 12 volt light bulb attached to the input. I do understand that the bulbs purpose is protection from excessive current but I haven't seen this used elsewhere. It also seems like it's putting unnecessary resistance on the circuit and I think that this probably some kind of band-aid. When I saw that replacement bulbs are still available I figured that someone must be still using them...but why? This question is a little off topic but I've always wondered about the advantages if any.
I got a pair of RtR HPR-12 Magnums, made in the early 70s, for a song. These are over 70# apiece, with the woofer, mid, and tweeter all in separate, fiberglass-lined compartments (and the woofers have these enormous alnico magnets) so there was already a lot going for them. I replaced the electrolytic caps with Clarity film caps ($70) and while the sound was pretty nice before, the improvement was astounding. The soundstage opened up considerably (and it was not bad before) and there is much greater transparency (which, again, was good before) without losing musicality. So I'd like to underscore that a great improvement can be made in upgrading the internal electronics. Audiophile-grade film caps are not cheap and can be an inch in diameter, but they are worth the investment and it's extremely satisfying to do these upgrades yourself.
Keep those great videos coming, you're crucial for our music retail store business and purchases which has allowed us to communicate with the distributors who can hold the manufactures to a higher standard level. Do you have a place where we can by different copper binding posts and cables to upgrade our personal speakers? Because of our location, is it possible to just take out the crossovers and send those to you for an upgrade. I have some old JBL's that I want to upgrade. I hope you can do a video on Polk Audio and Definitive Technology speakers soon. Thanks again for taking the time to educate many audio enthusiasts, industry retailers, and people who want to improve their listening experience. If I'm in your area, I'd like to discuss a possible franchise training program to get one of my employees GR-Research certified. He can work for you for three weeks free while I pay his way, etc.
All new Clarisys Audio Panel Loudspeakers are unreal, nothing on the world market like them period ! They will be raving about them for many many years to come ! They will be at the Florida Audio Expo 2023 Show on the 17th of this month in rooms 1&2 and 915 from Suncoast Audio in South Florida. You don't want to miss this one ! 😇😊
why are speakers round and cabinets rectangles/cubes? I know there have been some innovations. Seems like the reason is that building from wood back in the early days dictated squares. However, seems like sound would be better surved by curves paired to the components. Thoughts?
I have a couple of vintage b&w DM 12's down here in Holland. Cabinet is pretty solid and lined with bitume. I'm interested in what they would do, and what upgrade set you would come up with. They look a bit like the atc
Hello, I like your no nonsense approach to your presentation and work. Indeed, flimsy cabinets like the KEF unit really need to be upgraded and that is pretty simple with a bit of talent in woodworking and proper materials being applied/used to do so (including proper bracing to prevent mega resonances). As for using Air core inductors, that is indeed a no-brainer if you want to have clean audio ( by staying away from Magnetic hysteresis and therefore from saturation during dynamic passages). As for better/faster caps and cleaner resistances, not to mention proper wires, that also makes a big difference. -- One point however that I have to wonder about: Do you compensate for transducer’s age? As you more than probably know (even if many music lovers and audio newcomers are not aware of this) with time all components usually have their Thiele/Small (electromechanical) parameters being altered by having been utilized/”broken-in”. (and these KEF probably have quite a bit of “mileage”/music playing in them considering how old this model is.) That would often mean/translate in a different and altered Fs, Vas, Qes, Qms, Bl, Re, SPL, etc., than when the loudspeaker was originally conceived by the manufacturer… This would also mean that there should probably be some retargeting of values for the “updated/revamped” cross-over. Side Note : One could even “shield & boost” the transducers by using a smaller reversed magnet glued to the main magnet backside of the Woofer transducer. That would slightly change the Qte & Qts & Bl and also some other Thiele/Small parameters, but that could probably and easily be offset/corrected by retargeting the specs on the cross-over and adjusting the port or moving mass of a passive radiator - if/should any be used in a given cabinet design - or even simply adjusting the Vb of the cabinet itself - by paying attention to the innards of the cabinet, as is already done & altered by the added materials & bracings to the unit in the first place- All this to adjust resonance and tuning and, in the end, make for a “tighter” and more “responsive” transducer while not affecting too much the performance of the transducer’s upper range and the F3 or F10 of the enclosure all that much… One could even argue that it could make for a better speaker overall if well done. So, I'm just curious and looking forward to your comments (if any). Salutations, M :) PS Please do keep the good work. You, Sir, are one of the most serious “speaker expert” out there when it comes to doing things right and getting the most out of a system. All this with no BS or smoke and mirrors, which is very nice and refreshing indeed! :)
Yes you flatten the response at the expense of sensitivity. No doubt by tweaking the crossover values not solely by increasing the quality of components.
can you compare cables and binding posts? like the average house wiring type cable from home depot or a roll of cheap car hifi CCA on screw or banana terminals vs some fancy "whatever audiophilios swear at this moment" cable with tube connectors. most people just say its this, and that, more clear and open.. but they dont show any measurements that prove that theres a real difference.
I ordered this center channel kit yesterday, can't wait to get it installed. When Danny creates his kit for the Ultra bookshelf, I'll likely order those as well. The jury is still out on fiberglass. I'll decide once I have the speaker taken apart.
Hey Marcus! How did the upgrade work out? Was it a noticeable improvement? I am considering purchasing the center channel upgrade kit myself. What did you decide with the fiberglass? Would love to get your feedback on your experience.
@@askmatt7283 The upgrade was an improvement. More clarity. Even though Danny makes it look easy in his videos, building a crossover is not easy for a novice. In fact, on the audio circles forum an individual has offered (unknown cost) to build the crossover for you. I did go with fiberglass but many people do not because there is a port. They fear fiberglass coming out the port. I also installed norez. This was a pain to cut. At the end of the day, it is a worthwhile upgrade if you plan to keep the speakers.
@@marcusdibenedetto7958does it still sound as good with music and movies? and did you test it with the stock filling pads before changing them and just the crossover kit installed ??
Hey Danny, any chance you could put together a video building the crossover for the svs ultra center. I've had your upgrade kit for a short while a little nervous about starting
Cement board as a cabinet liner? Currently have some cabinets made out of oak plywood very sturdy well-built boxes what would be the best thing to keep them from Singing to me?
I avoid fiber glass because of the glass fibers. Get a ported sub moving and shine a flashlight by the port and look but don't breath. Also I think the glass fibers cannot be good for vented coils. When I first started building speakers as a poor preteen I tried using some Organic Cotton Batting out of my futon mattress. I could certainly hear the extra density of the cotton tame the cabinet and mid range. I really enjoy the meticulous comparisons.
Would an intentionally rough cabinet surface affect surface reflections and hence diffraction of the sound? My personal belief is no surface at all; that's why my 'grail' speakers I've been slowly designing and acquiring parts for over the last two years uses a cylindrical construction for the cabinets with the cylinder OD as close to the driver OD as possible. That small ledge I plan on covering with foam tape to further absorb reflections. The sides of the cylinder are curved, and will break up the sound waves that travel rearward, albeit it will be lower frequencies. I'm hoping to get the x-over just right and end up with a nice response curve
Great video, as usual! We know that you like the fibre glass, but aren’t there in general, a lot of nano fibres in mineral wool that can harm the coil, over time? A ported speaker moves a lot of air, that blows thru the mineral wool. Just curious, but I will follow your advise.
You can also use that insulation that is made out of recycled textiles, (i.e. ground up blue jeans and other cotton based clothing), as that type of insulation can also be found in pressed together sheets which are usually about 1-1.5" thick, (perfect for most speakers!), it has extremely good sound damping properties, (even better than acoustic foam OR fiberglass, and at least as good as "rockwool/mineral wool" of the same thickness, in my experience), and it is also MUCH easier to work with than either fiberglass OR "rockwool" or mineral wool, OR even REAL (animal) wool, as the recycled clothing type of insulation doesn't make you itch or cough at all, NOR do you have to worry about its fibers getting into and damaging the driver voicecoils, etc. because it isn't as "dusty" as fiberglass or mineral wool, nor are the individual fibers of recycled clothing insulation nearly as sharp edged as fiberglass or even the rockwool type!... I just discovered how excellent the recycled clothing insulation works in speakers by "accident", from a little "experiment" that I did, because I came across some of it in the packing material of a shipping box one time, and I took the plastic bag wrapping off of it and I decided to just try it in a speaker to see what it would do... I wasn't expecting anything in particular, but when I tried it I was VERY thoroughly impressed!... Now it's pretty much all I use for internal speaker cabinet damping, simply because it is so beautifully effective AND I am constantly finding it for FREE in recycle dumpsters, discarded shipping boxes, etc.
Would like to see you upgrade an "AR9ls. They have potential but crossover not giving presence especially in high frequency range. Some reviews suggest one cap. change but I would like to see you experiment
Hello, love your videos! I have a set of Kef 104/2 and a set of Kef Cantana speakers and I am wondering if you have any upgrade kits for those or if you have any recommendations to make them sound as good as possible? Thanks in advance!
lyle miller....I am 68. Wayyy back in the early 1970's I was in the U.S. Navy and in an aviation land based squadron. A couple of guys in the dorms had the two way Advent speakers. How "original" do you mean...that far back..?? Advent speakers were real popular then but I didn't like the mid-range. They also cost well over $100.00 a piece. I had a pair of a brand called Lyric and they were three way's: 16" woofer, 6" mid-range and 1 3/4" tweeter( I think...long time ago..lol..!! ). The Lyrics were only about $45.00 each. I caught a lot of ridicule from the Advent guys for my 'cheap' speakers until they heard the same album on my system that they had on theirs and heard vocals and other stuff that they did not hear on their expensive Advents. Just because speakers are expensive doesn't always mean they are better than a less expensive speaker.
@@marbleman52 Well you do have a point understood correctly originals boxes were made of a different composite wood I don’t clearly remember everything but I stack them I had 8 of them Surrounding in an audio room, But in the last 20 years I’ve had a pair of EV’s studio and they came from the original EV electronics engineer, Who had them for himself there about 1000 a piece but I eventually got away from the audiophile characteristics just listen to headphones. but more importantly it’s electronics it runs through to reproduced the sound.
I've got some Joseph Audio Infinite Slope model 2's ...They each have 5 drivers in them...weigh 125lbs each. Should I upgrade these things with a better crossover?
I would really love to talk speakers with you in person for a few hours sometime!... In all of my decades of experimenting with, repairing, improving, and even designing and building speakers from scratch, (mainly from improving existing speakers because it's cheapest to do), I have found a very effective way to get rid of most of the baffle reflections on speakers like this that have a too large baffle surface area. What I do is really cheap, not too difficult, and very noticeably effective, but it's also something that takes a while to explain properly, so a comment on TH-cam probably won't cut it, I'd have to show you in person... Maybe someday I can visit your shop and see what all you do, as I'm sure we could both learn something from each other!... I really love your speaker videos man, keep up the great work, and Happy Holidays to you and yours! (as good as they can be this year!)
@@dannyrichie9743 Yeah, that would be really cool!... Maybe once all of this Covid shit is finally over I could do that. What city/state are you in again? (I think you mentioned it before in one of your vids, but I forgot.)
@@dannyrichie9743 Cool. I'll definitely have to check it out sometime, maybe in route to visit my Mom sometime. She lives in Arkansas. I'm in Albuquerque, NM. You're only about a 7-8 hour drive from me. Looks like it would only be a slight detour for me in route to my Mom's house to come visit your shop and trade info for a few hours or so. So that'll be on my bucket list of things to do once Covid is under control and it's totally safe to travel everywhere again.
Aren’t those Kef tweeters ferrofluid cooled? It seems likely that the rolled off top end could be the old dried fluid inhibiting the voice coil of the tweeter, and replacing the fluid should bring them back to life. I have vintage kef and mission speakers with tweeters developing ferrofluid related problems sounding dull.
Danny, what would happen if you tried Rock wool instead of fiberglass? I was thinking it might be an option. I know it is more dense than fiberglass, but that may be a plus or not. Might be that I am not the only or the first to ask this one. Stay safe mates!😊👍🏻😷
i used batting cause i found that fiber galss fly out ports in small amount so they stop using it cause people where geting it there lungs.but i like what you do.just this why dont you just sell high end speakers you made??? in big amounts like kef or bw.cause you make more sense than any one eles .thank you
I believe he’s placing that in the mid base portion of the speaker. And the ports are in the Wolfer area, and there are dividers sealing the two portions between the woofer in the mid. The box I believe is got three cavities . Where he’s placing the fiberglass is in the sealed cavity
As always, good video. Question on one of your comments about the SVS Ultra Center, you mentioned that reflections from the surface areas on the front baffle were the cause of some of the variations in f response but wouldn't that be true of most center speakers, the Ultra doesn't impress me as being all that different from other big 3 way cc's.
I have listened to some of Danny's speakers and they are definitely end game. I can vouch for what I heard and if you want extremely clean speakers that sound about as coherent as any speaker I've ever heard.... the nxtreme and Oticas are it. I would definitely recommend using something with it to take care of below 50 hz. His servo subs are on my short list as well.
@@ufarkingicehole ive been lucky enough to hear Dannys pair of NX-Tremes as well & theyre incredible, even with only 8W from his modded 300B Tube amp, they're clean, fast, & transparent, with next-level soundstaging and imaging.
Hi Danny, I have pair of KEF CS3 (DIY kit speakers from 1982). I compared them with with Spendor floorstander speakers (DIY kit from same period) and conclusion was that midrange on my speakers is veiled (piano sounded like piano cover is closed, while on Spendors it sounded like cover is open). I thought the crossover might be a problem because it is made of cheap components (iron core inductors - size of dollar coin, polystirene capacitors - very small in size - 2-3 grains of bean) so the whole crossover is a size of cigarette box, component were just soldered together. I also changed a factory suggested crossover scheme (i did not use some capacitors, and i am not sure about inductance value of inductors because my friend made it for me). What is your opinion will my speakers sound better if i upgrade crossover with better parts.
I happened to have sort of concerto 1967 kef I googlit it ..one of a kind 4 tweeter 3 mains 2 bass on one speaker. What upgrade for crossover any suggestions ?
A newbie question. Can Audyssey calibration software via home theater receiver /pre-amp correct some of these frequency response issues? Thank you for this video, very informative.
To a certain extent, yes, but it's much, MUCH better to start out with a really great sounding speaker with a decently smooth frequency response across the musical frequency spectrum first and foremost, and then only EQ it very slightly, and even then ONLY IF it's still actually even needed in your specific listening room or position, (AND if you can't first improve it by changing positions in the room, either by moving yourself and/or the speakers themselves), rather than trying to use "DSP" as a "Band-Aid type fix" for a horrible sounding to begin with speaker, because DSP adds its own level of phase shift and harmonic distortion to the sound, therefore usually ruining the overall imaging and soundstage of the speakers, even if the overall frequency response might become slightly smoother... Using ANY kind of DSP "correction" software to try and "fix" a horrible to start with speaker is kind of like trying to fix E.D. with Viagra or whatever... It only deals with the "symptoms" instead of the root cause of the bad sound quality, so DSP can in some ways make it sound even *worse, after* the DSP "correction" is applied, because of the reasons stated in the first paragraph above.
I just discovered your channel and it looks very interesting. I searched for 'active' in your videos and didn't find anything. Wouldn't it be a good idea to build (or convert to) active speakers with built in amplifiers which don't need the expensive crossovers? Thanks
Thanks for joining in. Active speakers start you down a rabbit hole of a whole new group of problems and bottlenecks. Have you noticed that most active speakers are super budget level in price and performance? There is a reason (a lot of reasons) for that.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks for your fast reply. A long time ago I helped my father buying an expensive HiFi system. And at that time active speakers were promoted for their better sound because they have separate amplifiers for each loudspeaker and the crossover (not sure if that name was used) for line level signals doesn't cost much. That's where my thoughts come from.
Could I get the details of your measurement techniques ? I recently looked a at friends Klipsh 8000 you did a fix on it it had poor build quality so I shit caned the whole crossover and replaced it with good 10gage solder connections them bimmped them with a 24 db crossover set at 1.2k it sounded great till. It died , and took about a week from what I have see. The small voice coil could not take the power can you suggest one that might?
Danny have you also tried mineral wool insulation like Rockwool/Roxoul inside speaker enclosures? Did you find you liked the result of using it vs fiberglass or polyfil?
I have used some of that kind of insulation in speakers before, and it definitely works quite well! Probably even better than plain fiberglass does, probably because that mineral/rock wool insulation is specifically designed to dampen sound... However, because that type of insulation is so effective at absorbing and dissipating sound, you have to be careful not to use too much of it, because it will almost dampen TOO much if you stuff the speaker cabinet full of it, resulting in a lower SPL output of the speaker overall. That's why you have to use it strategically!... But it definitely does what it's designed to do! So I would also love to hear what Danny has to say about it, given all of his many years of experience with speakers of all different designs!
@@JoeJ-8282 can a speaker cabinet be dampened too much? Wouldn’t a dead cabinet be the ideal cabinet? Re SPL’s: isn’t this a case of quality vs quantity? If you are not limited in amplifier power, isn’t getting clean SPL’s better?
@@doronor6552 Is too much damping even possible?... The short answer to that is YES, but that totally depends on MANY factors, the overall design of the speaker being the main one, and how well the whole system (of a speaker as a whole) is implemented and how well all of its individual components integrate and work together... or don't... Isn't a totally "dead" or inert cabinet always the best/ideal?... In most cases I agree, yes, however, that is NOT ALWAYS the case. Some speakers are actually designed very similarly to carefully tuned musical instruments, especially stringed ones, (like a guitar, etc.), where the entire cabinet, along with all of its specific resonances and resulting harmonics, is designed into (to become an integral part of) the overall sound of the speaker, to very subtly enhance the overall sound produced by the entire speaker as a whole... (Yeah, IKR?! I just learned that recently too!) I have recently personally listened (IN PERSON, IN STORE) to one brand in particular that incorporated that exact design aspect into their speakers, and as it turns out, they are some of the most awe inspiring, lifelike, and euphorically pleasing speakers I have EVER heard in my entire life so far!... That company is GamuT btw, in case you are wondering... Apparently they are one of a small handful of speaker companies that use that kind of design in their speakers, where they essentially take advantage of specific exotic wood laminates' frequency resonances and associated harmonics, and use those to *enhance* the overall sound quality of the speaker as an entire system... I believe that Tekton Design is another company that does that, even though I've never heard any of their speakers personally, so I cannot attest to how good they are... But they usually get pretty great reviews, so I would love to compare some Tekton Design speakers with a few GamuT speakers sometime, side by side in the same listening room, (preferably my own), and see which ones I actually like best overall, because both brands are very impressively built, beautiful looking, (IMO), and relatively inexpensive for what they seem to offer in design and capabilities/specs. Most models from both of those companies are (only) in the multiple 1000's of dollars price range, instead of multiple 10,000's or even some 100,000+ dollars price range, like some "boutique audiophile" brands are, and IMO, usually the $1K-$10K price range is that "magic sweet spot" (or range) where speakers are usually the overall BEST price/performance ratio. Now, as far as SPLs go, (when relating to speaker cabinet damping level), cleaner sound is definitely better to have than louder sound, (IF it's just a simple tradeoff between those two aspects, where all else is equal, and if a given speaker HAS to be lower SPL just to produce a clean output, and/or a speaker HAS to have a "dirtier" output just in order to have a louder output, however, that's usually not always a balanced tradeoff, and it is totally possible to have a relatively loud AND clean speaker, just as it's also totally possible to have a speaker that has relatively low SPL output, but is still rather "distorted" sounding), but if a speaker cabinet is too overdamped, (even MORE than what is necessary to eliminate any UNwanted cabinet resonances), it can also reach a point where you lose too much efficiency, and the individual speaker driver(s) that are in the overdamped cabinet section has to work TOO hard to produce sufficient SPL sound levels... In that case, TOO much amplifier power is also needed to compensate and the driver(s) may not be able to handle it, possibly overdriving either the amp &/or the speaker driver(s) themselves in an attempt to produce sufficient SPL levels... and doing that in itself increases distortion levels produced by the driver itself, therefore defeating the purpose of the damping material, so there is always a balance, a "sweet spot" of just the right amount of cabinet damping, but without going overboard with it and ultimately making the speaker sound too "flat", or in other words, too dull, boring, lifeless, and/or muffled sounding... You definitely don't want THAT!... The important thing to note is that most speaker companies UNDER-damp their speaker cabinets, mainly because it's cheaper, easier, and quicker to build them, most people don't ever see the inside of a speaker anyway so they don't think about it, plus most ("average", NON-audiophile) listeners don't even know what cabinet resonances specifically sound like anyway, OR how any UNtuned and/or UNwanted resonances can degrade the overall sound quality and imaging of a speaker. Also, most ordinary speakers are NOT of the "tuned cabinet resonance" type, so the "bottom line" here is that in MOST cases, MOST speakers can benefit from SOME additional damping material being added into their cabinets for better, cleaner, less "colored", less "muddy" sound out of them, especially in the midrange and midbass regions of the overall sound spectrum... Hence what Danny does with that "No-Res" stuff he usually adds... He just doesn't stuff the entire cabinet FULL of that stuff, he only lines the underdamped cabinet walls with it, because overstuffing the cabinet past the point that is beneficial for basic cabinet wall resonance reduction would be totally unnecessary AND actually detrimental to the overall sound of the speaker, for all of the reasons explained above... Hopefully this "mini novel" here, (lol), will help you (or anyone reading this comment thread), to better understand the finer nuances of speaker cabinet damping, and also show you just one of the MANY reasons why speaker designing, building, and improving is a VERY complicated, but truly "fine ART"!
To be honest, I have both the prime and ultra centers. Absolutely the worst and most fatiguing sound ever. I thought maybe it was my emotiva gear. Then I bought a parasound A23+, and a A23 bridged to mono for the center. I have Dirac, I used equalizers, even a BBE sonic maximizer. I am dumping all my ultras and moving on to focal. I am glad you found the fix. Yes, tempted to upgrade. But just Absolutely disappointed in SVS. I hooked up am old DCM KX center and it blew away the ultra center. Unbelievable.
I have almost exact experience. I am tempted to pay the $315 to do the Center Ultra upgrade but worried it will still sound terrible. For a little more I can buy a Focal center.
How about complete parts for the alon IV speaker crossovers.they took a short burst of DC voltage from a adcom 555 amplifier.all drivers still sound fine and test good ohm reading wise they just lost the deep soundstage effect.please let me know if u can help.thanks Pete.
I doubt that, especially given their age AND especially the material they're made out of! (cheap particle board) ALL of the speakers that I've seen where the company actually finely tunes their cabinets like a very fine, delicately nuanced musical instrument to resonate *in harmony* with and enhancing of the drivers in the overall speaker's total "system" sound, therefore actually enhancing, (in a good way), the drivers, all of those speaker companies are VERY high-end, and they always use either very specific, hand selected types of REAL SOLID WOOD for the walls of the cabinets, or even more often, usually a hydraulically pressed laminate "plywood", made from a few different types of solid wood sheets glued and very tightly pressed together, in order to get the best and most positively enhancing acoustic properties from the cabinet itself, kind of like an expensive piano or something!... THOSE types of cabinets are sometimes designed like that on purpose, in which case you'd probably be best not fucking with them at all, but any speaker with a flimsy, cheap particle board cabinet, especially an older *vintage* speaker like that KEF there, (before very many speaker companies were doing that kind of thing, of tuning the cabinet wood), is NOT going to be purposely *designed* to be resonant in any specific way... If it is resonant or rattles or sounds like a drum or hollow, and it's just cheaply made, (out of particle board especially), and it also doesn't have any kind of internal bracing inside of it, like that KEF he has there, then anything that you can do to the cabinet, insulation and bracing-wise will only improve the clarity of the sound from it, especially in the midbass and midrange! (get rid of boominess and "muddyness", but still retaining the fullness and richness) The only minor caveat to improving the cabinet's "sound", (or wanted lack thereof), by adding bracing and an extra layer of wood to the inside of it to make it stiffer and less resonant, is that adding all of that stuff inside the box will possibly change the low-end tuning of the box, possibly sometimes negatively affecting the lowest frequency response ability of the speaker because the internal cabinet volume (space) is reduced by adding the stuff to make the cabinet stiffer and tighter... Making the bass much cleaner and tighter, but with possibly less extreme low-end ability due to the slightly smaller volume cabinet after the mods to make it stronger. (but that usually CAN be accommodated for in other ways if needed)... Luckily that KEF he has there is a passive radiator design instead of ported, which is slightly more forgiving in general to minor cabinet size, (internal cubic inch volume), changes than a ported design is. A ported box works best with a very specific box volume and driver parameters. Anyway, I totally understand what you were talking about, but I don't think that this specific vintage KEF speaker could be hurt by slightly modifying the cabinet in the ways Danny's talking about here, simply because "it is what it is", (i.e. nothing special), so I think it would be at least worth a try to improve it!... Given what it is, I would try to improve it also, if those were my speakers!
is that not one of the speaker design concepts with the British ? Thin wall cabinet construction ? Harbeth , Spendor Rogers have similar cabinet designs as well --
"The passive radiator is tuned to 40Hz" -Starts graph at 200Hz. 🤔 For a 100W rated AVR a 3 ohm speaker would want to draw 33W more than a 4 ohm in a worst case scenario. That's only 1.2dB, not a big deal. If you're pushing your center that hard to hit reference levels, it's time to get larger/more efficient designs or upgrade power.
Hey you should go for a set of Pioneer HPM 100 by the great engeener Bart Lancotti who desighned them to stomp all over the old jbl l-100 Bart desighned. The hpm 100 their a crazy 4 way speaker that can actually punch you in the chest and 92.5 db efficancy ! I would send you mine but their 75 pounds each !
![ช่วยพาฉันผ่านเวลา - วสันต์17 [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HFnntWoqc54/mqdefault.jpg)
i lose track of how many times i watch each of these and continue to learn and remember more of what i didn't fullyabsorb the previous times. Long live Danny on TH-cam
Accidently bumped into this channel. Amazing work, you deserve 10000x the subs. Keep up the good work!
Very enjoyable work, information and video here Danny, I hope this Vintage & New series continues for a good long time, really fun and interesting excercise here. 👍🏼
The best explanations Danny! A must of a channel... 👍
Another great video, Danny! I'm really surprised how much better the vintage KEF performed.
Definitely excited to see the process on the next two speakers! 👍
Die Frage ist: warum wird eine solche Qualität heute nicht mehr hergestellt? Nur noch Schrott für teures Geld.
Kef really nailed it with the drivers they were making during that period. IMF used their drivers. IMF sound absolutely fantastic.
I have desired to own a good system for years but could not afford it,but now I'm excited because there is hope.Thanks.I live in South Africa and due to the exchange rate and whether you can find them it's not easy.Thanks again.
A lot of thought has gone into the objective & results of this video I am impressed... For 40 years I have used various pairs of original Quad electrostatic speakers(57's) so I know all about impedance effects.
It's great to see some science brought to the world of audio transducers. All too often there are subjective opinions based dogma, fashion, placebo and an absence of physics knowledge. Keep up with the quantification. Subscribed!!
Danny - Looking forward to the B+W tear down - These were a very popular speaker in the day too include having the 801 as studio monitor - - I have a set of B&W towers I bought back in 1990 - Thanks
Can't wait to see what you'll do on the ATC and BW speakers.
We all need to get this guy some more subs. I think this is a great way of upgrading your speakers . .
i've learned so much listening to him, man knows his stuff.
I'd be interested in seeing a study of the Spica TC-50 v TC-50i. I'm hoping to do a project.
Love your videos. A huge number of people have the KEF LS50 speakers. If you can find ways to make them better you have a huge winner in views and sales :)
If someone sends one in then I'll take a look at them.
Very I interested in what you find with the B&W in particular...
Great stuff !
Another great job. Keep it up. Idea for new video: What is the model with the biggest difference you’ve been able to make with an upgrade?
Thanks for watching. Some of the upgrades that I did to the Klipsch models were pretty huge.
I will love to hear the difference between the upgrade and the out-of-the-box edition. I wonder if it's audible.
I want to thank you for the video you did on the explanation of how and why shielded interconnects work. I bought a couple pairs and the difference in my system is amazing!
Next week is the one I'll be waiting for! So fascinated by ATC speakers, been lusting for one of the SCM range. Looking forward to seeing the innards and what you think of them!
Hope he does the SCM40's because that's the one's I've got.
I bought a pair of vintage SCM20ASL about a year ago direct from a small studio. They are the active type and run most of the time in Class A. They have cast aluminium cabinets and weigh a ton! They sound amazing on good quality source material but might need the help of a sub, depending on your taste and music choices. I could wax lyrical all day about the sound all day but really you need to hear them for decide for yourself.
@Bob yes, they talk about their drivers a lot but no mention of the Crossovers in their "entry" SCM range.
@Bob mind you, the model on the table is the SCM11, the 19 uses a different mid/bass. But still.. Can't wait.. Been searching for a look inside vid of ATC for ages lol
Stay tuned it will be interesting.
Take your point on the Kef cabinet .. I had a pair of so called 'classis' Spendor BC1 - and if you ran them with a oscillator, you could get the side panels to resonate at a particular frequency - it was very audible and ebn more obvious if you put your hand on it !
An old analogue oscillator wmis probably best for this test as you can quickly sweep throughcheck frequencies by rotating the big knob on the front !
Awesome Danny, much appreciated!!! It is nice coming to GR Research Speaker Engineering School and learning.
Your experience is such that no vetting or double blind test / further analysis is required. Thank you sir!
I have learned more here than the past 40 years associated to the consumer electronics HiFi field.
Great work in the refurbish! Give a new lease on life to old greats and make them greater! Thumbs up!
Seriously? You know they actually “sound better“. I think a few people would do better by selling your high-quality speakers, taking that money and buying an upgraded pair. Some of what he’s doing good dramatically change the characteristics of the speaker that you really like!
Woah, this is my channel! What a find! Subscribed
Hello Danny, My dad had a set of the Bose 501 series IV and when I took them apart - it was the first time that I saw a 12 volt light bulb attached to the input. I do understand that the bulbs purpose is protection from excessive current but I haven't seen this used elsewhere. It also seems like it's putting unnecessary resistance on the circuit and I think that this probably some kind of band-aid. When I saw that replacement bulbs are still available I figured that someone must be still using them...but why? This question is a little off topic but I've always wondered about the advantages if any.
I got a pair of RtR HPR-12 Magnums, made in the early 70s, for a song. These are over 70# apiece, with the woofer, mid, and tweeter all in separate, fiberglass-lined compartments (and the woofers have these enormous alnico magnets) so there was already a lot going for them. I replaced the electrolytic caps with Clarity film caps ($70) and while the sound was pretty nice before, the improvement was astounding. The soundstage opened up considerably (and it was not bad before) and there is much greater transparency (which, again, was good before) without losing musicality.
So I'd like to underscore that a great improvement can be made in upgrading the internal electronics. Audiophile-grade film caps are not cheap and can be an inch in diameter, but they are worth the investment and it's extremely satisfying to do these upgrades yourself.
Keep those great videos coming, you're crucial for our music retail store business and purchases which has allowed us to communicate with the distributors who can hold the manufactures to a higher standard level. Do you have a place where we can by different copper binding posts and cables to upgrade our personal speakers? Because of our location, is it possible to just take out the crossovers and send those to you for an upgrade. I have some old JBL's that I want to upgrade. I hope you can do a video on Polk Audio and Definitive Technology speakers soon. Thanks again for taking the time to educate many audio enthusiasts, industry retailers, and people who want to improve their listening experience. If I'm in your area, I'd like to discuss a possible franchise training program to get one of my employees GR-Research certified. He can work for you for three weeks free while I pay his way, etc.
All new Clarisys Audio Panel Loudspeakers are unreal, nothing on the world market like them period ! They will be raving about them for many many years to come !
They will be at the Florida Audio Expo 2023 Show on the 17th of this month in rooms 1&2 and 915 from Suncoast Audio in South Florida. You don't want to miss this one ! 😇😊
why are speakers round and cabinets rectangles/cubes? I know there have been some innovations. Seems like the reason is that building from wood back in the early days dictated squares. However, seems like sound would be better surved by curves paired to the components. Thoughts?
I have a couple of vintage b&w DM 12's down here in Holland. Cabinet is pretty solid and lined with bitume. I'm interested in what they would do, and what upgrade set you would come up with. They look a bit like the atc
Hello,
I like your no nonsense approach to your presentation and work.
Indeed, flimsy cabinets like the KEF unit really need to be upgraded and that is pretty simple with a bit of talent in woodworking and proper materials being applied/used to do so (including proper bracing to prevent mega resonances).
As for using Air core inductors, that is indeed a no-brainer if you want to have clean audio ( by staying away from Magnetic hysteresis and therefore from saturation during dynamic passages).
As for better/faster caps and cleaner resistances, not to mention proper wires, that also makes a big difference.
--
One point however that I have to wonder about:
Do you compensate for transducer’s age?
As you more than probably know (even if many music lovers and audio newcomers are not aware of this) with time all components usually have their Thiele/Small (electromechanical) parameters being altered by having been utilized/”broken-in”.
(and these KEF probably have quite a bit of “mileage”/music playing in them considering how old this model is.)
That would often mean/translate in a different and altered Fs, Vas, Qes, Qms, Bl, Re, SPL, etc., than when the loudspeaker was originally conceived by the manufacturer…
This would also mean that there should probably be some retargeting of values for the “updated/revamped” cross-over.
Side Note : One could even “shield & boost” the transducers by using a smaller reversed magnet glued to the main magnet backside of the Woofer transducer. That would slightly change the Qte & Qts & Bl and also some other Thiele/Small parameters, but that could probably and easily be offset/corrected by retargeting the specs on the cross-over and adjusting the port or moving mass of a passive radiator - if/should any be used in a given cabinet design - or even simply adjusting the Vb of the cabinet itself - by paying attention to the innards of the cabinet, as is already done & altered by the added materials & bracings to the unit in the first place-
All this to adjust resonance and tuning and, in the end, make for a “tighter” and more “responsive” transducer while not affecting too much the performance of the transducer’s upper range and the F3 or F10 of the enclosure all that much… One could even argue that it could make for a better speaker overall if well done.
So, I'm just curious and looking forward to your comments (if any).
Salutations,
M :)
PS Please do keep the good work.
You, Sir, are one of the most serious “speaker expert” out there when it comes to doing things right and getting the most out of a system.
All this with no BS or smoke and mirrors, which is very nice and refreshing indeed!
:)
Yes you flatten the response at the expense of sensitivity. No doubt by tweaking the crossover values not solely by increasing the quality of components.
In both cases sensitivity came up in areas where they were low.
can you compare cables and binding posts? like the average house wiring type cable from home depot or a roll of cheap car hifi CCA on screw or banana terminals vs some fancy "whatever audiophilios swear at this moment" cable with tube connectors.
most people just say its this, and that, more clear and open.. but they dont show any measurements that prove that theres a real difference.
Wondering - What would the best modern bookshelf speaker be for a vintage Yamaha CR-2040? So confusing looking over all the new speakers!
I ordered this center channel kit yesterday, can't wait to get it installed. When Danny creates his kit for the Ultra bookshelf, I'll likely order those as well. The jury is still out on fiberglass. I'll decide once I have the speaker taken apart.
Hey Marcus! How did the upgrade work out? Was it a noticeable improvement? I am considering purchasing the center channel upgrade kit myself. What did you decide with the fiberglass? Would love to get your feedback on your experience.
@@askmatt7283 The upgrade was an improvement. More clarity. Even though Danny makes it look easy in his videos, building a crossover is not easy for a novice. In fact, on the audio circles forum an individual has offered (unknown cost) to build the crossover for you. I did go with fiberglass but many people do not because there is a port. They fear fiberglass coming out the port. I also installed norez. This was a pain to cut. At the end of the day, it is a worthwhile upgrade if you plan to keep the speakers.
@@marcusdibenedetto7958does it still sound as good with music and movies? and did you test it with the stock filling pads before changing them and just the crossover kit installed ??
Hey Danny, any chance you could put together a video building the crossover for the svs ultra center. I've had your upgrade kit for a short while a little nervous about starting
Danny, what's the polyethylene-insulated internal lead you used to replace the wimpy wire in the KEF?
What can you do With old Tannoy gold monitors , used for recording and mixing, in the 1960 to now
I would foam sponge the front panel on the SVS to reduce the reflection. That's a surprisingly bad response curve out of the SVS.
Cement board as a cabinet liner? Currently have some cabinets made out of oak plywood very sturdy well-built boxes what would be the best thing to keep them from Singing to me?
I avoid fiber glass because of the glass fibers. Get a ported sub moving and shine a flashlight by the port and look but don't breath. Also I think the glass fibers cannot be good for vented coils. When I first started building speakers as a poor preteen I tried using some Organic Cotton Batting out of my futon mattress. I could certainly hear the extra density of the cotton tame the cabinet and mid range. I really enjoy the meticulous comparisons.
Awesome channel and amazing concept. Have you done any Celestion Ditton 44 or 66s yet?
Would an intentionally rough cabinet surface affect surface reflections and hence diffraction of the sound? My personal belief is no surface at all; that's why my 'grail' speakers I've been slowly designing and acquiring parts for over the last two years uses a cylindrical construction for the cabinets with the cylinder OD as close to the driver OD as possible. That small ledge I plan on covering with foam tape to further absorb reflections. The sides of the cylinder are curved, and will break up the sound waves that travel rearward, albeit it will be lower frequencies. I'm hoping to get the x-over just right and end up with a nice response curve
Great video, as usual! We know that you like the fibre glass, but aren’t there in general, a lot of nano fibres in mineral wool that can harm the coil, over time? A ported speaker moves a lot of air, that blows thru the mineral wool. Just curious, but I will follow your advise.
Cover the fiberglass insulation with grill cloth. Problem solved.
Try raw lambs wool instead of fibreglass. It has similar acoustic properties and is a million times better to work with.
You can also use that insulation that is made out of recycled textiles, (i.e. ground up blue jeans and other cotton based clothing), as that type of insulation can also be found in pressed together sheets which are usually about 1-1.5" thick, (perfect for most speakers!), it has extremely good sound damping properties, (even better than acoustic foam OR fiberglass, and at least as good as "rockwool/mineral wool" of the same thickness, in my experience), and it is also MUCH easier to work with than either fiberglass OR "rockwool" or mineral wool, OR even REAL (animal) wool, as the recycled clothing type of insulation doesn't make you itch or cough at all, NOR do you have to worry about its fibers getting into and damaging the driver voicecoils, etc. because it isn't as "dusty" as fiberglass or mineral wool, nor are the individual fibers of recycled clothing insulation nearly as sharp edged as fiberglass or even the rockwool type!...
I just discovered how excellent the recycled clothing insulation works in speakers by "accident", from a little "experiment" that I did, because I came across some of it in the packing material of a shipping box one time, and I took the plastic bag wrapping off of it and I decided to just try it in a speaker to see what it would do... I wasn't expecting anything in particular, but when I tried it I was VERY thoroughly impressed!... Now it's pretty much all I use for internal speaker cabinet damping, simply because it is so beautifully effective AND I am constantly finding it for FREE in recycle dumpsters, discarded shipping boxes, etc.
great videos. It would be great to listen to a before and after on a video , if that is possibility
I have some B&O Beovox S80. I wonder would replacing those 40 year old cross overs help...?
You should do Tannoy HPD 385/315 and the Monitor Golds. It will be a hit.
Before and after tests please.
Do you do 70’s vintage speakers? I have Infinity Quantum 3s I’d like todo some crossover work on. Thanks.
can u do a video on how to install this
Would like to see you upgrade an "AR9ls. They have potential but crossover not giving presence especially in high frequency range. Some reviews suggest one cap. change but I would like to see you experiment
Hello, love your videos! I have a set of Kef 104/2 and a set of Kef Cantana speakers and I am wondering if you have any upgrade kits for those or if you have any recommendations to make them sound as good as possible? Thanks in advance!
I would like to see The original Advent floor model checked out...I always liked em stacked....thanks...aaa..as yea with TUBE POWER...
lyle miller....I am 68. Wayyy back in the early 1970's I was in the U.S. Navy and in an aviation land based squadron. A couple of guys in the dorms had the two way Advent speakers. How "original" do you mean...that far back..?? Advent speakers were real popular then but I didn't like the mid-range. They also cost well over $100.00 a piece. I had a pair of a brand called Lyric and they were three way's: 16" woofer, 6" mid-range and 1 3/4" tweeter( I think...long time ago..lol..!! ). The Lyrics were only about $45.00 each. I caught a lot of ridicule from the Advent guys for my 'cheap' speakers until they heard the same album on my system that they had on theirs and heard vocals and other stuff that they did not hear on their expensive Advents. Just because speakers are expensive doesn't always mean they are better than a less expensive speaker.
@@marbleman52 Well you do have a point understood correctly originals boxes were made of a different composite wood I don’t clearly remember everything but I stack them I had 8 of them Surrounding in an audio room, But in the last 20 years I’ve had a pair of EV’s studio and they came from the original EV electronics engineer, Who had them for himself there about 1000 a piece but I eventually got away from the audiophile characteristics just listen to headphones. but more importantly it’s electronics it runs through to reproduced the sound.
thanks for the inquiry though have a good dayAnd stay safe
I've got some Joseph Audio Infinite Slope model 2's ...They each have 5 drivers in them...weigh 125lbs each. Should I upgrade these things with a better crossover?
Do you have a video showing how to do this update? I’m a novice, I know how to solder but I’m not great at following a Schematic is this over my head?
How would you rate my AR-11’s. Nothing has been replaced in the crossovers. I bought them in 1977 for $750 a pair! Still sound awesome.
I would really love to talk speakers with you in person for a few hours sometime!...
In all of my decades of experimenting with, repairing, improving, and even designing and building speakers from scratch, (mainly from improving existing speakers because it's cheapest to do), I have found a very effective way to get rid of most of the baffle reflections on speakers like this that have a too large baffle surface area. What I do is really cheap, not too difficult, and very noticeably effective, but it's also something that takes a while to explain properly, so a comment on TH-cam probably won't cut it, I'd have to show you in person...
Maybe someday I can visit your shop and see what all you do, as I'm sure we could both learn something from each other!...
I really love your speaker videos man, keep up the great work, and Happy Holidays to you and yours! (as good as they can be this year!)
Come on over sometime.
@@dannyrichie9743 Yeah, that would be really cool!... Maybe once all of this Covid shit is finally over I could do that. What city/state are you in again? (I think you mentioned it before in one of your vids, but I forgot.)
@@JoeJ-8282 Iowa Park, TX
@@dannyrichie9743 Cool. I'll definitely have to check it out sometime, maybe in route to visit my Mom sometime. She lives in Arkansas. I'm in Albuquerque, NM. You're only about a 7-8 hour drive from me. Looks like it would only be a slight detour for me in route to my Mom's house to come visit your shop and trade info for a few hours or so. So that'll be on my bucket list of things to do once Covid is under control and it's totally safe to travel everywhere again.
@@JoeJ-8282 Not a problem. I'm just about 2 miles off the highway you'd be traveling down.
Your link for the SVS Center Speaker doesn't work. Also, can't find the "parts kit" for the SVS on your webpage...
What are your thoughts on the parts express kits it would be nice if you could review some of those
Do these come already assembled on a board and all you got to do is connect the wires up to the speaker
Aren’t those Kef tweeters ferrofluid cooled? It seems likely that the rolled off top end could be the old dried fluid inhibiting the voice coil of the tweeter, and replacing the fluid should bring them back to life. I have vintage kef and mission speakers with tweeters developing ferrofluid related problems sounding dull.
Danny, what would happen if you tried Rock wool instead of fiberglass? I was thinking it might be an option. I know it is more dense than fiberglass, but that may be a plus or not. Might be that I am not the only or the first to ask this one. Stay safe mates!😊👍🏻😷
Do ported subwoofer enclosures need or improve sound when adding no resonance foam??
i used batting cause i found that fiber galss fly out ports in small amount so they stop using it cause people where geting it there lungs.but i like what you do.just this why dont you just sell high end speakers you made??? in big amounts like kef or bw.cause you make more sense than any one eles .thank you
The mid cabinet is sealed. So nothing blows out. And we sell tons of our own designs. You can see them on our site.
ATC - B&W please yes check those things out
What about glass fiber dust and particles? Ported boxes and voice coils, is there a potential issue with that? Is rockwool a suitable alternative?
I believe he’s placing that in the mid base portion of the speaker. And the ports are in the Wolfer area, and there are dividers sealing the two portions between the woofer in the mid. The box I believe is got three cavities . Where he’s placing the fiberglass is in the sealed cavity
As always, good video. Question on one of your comments about the SVS Ultra Center, you mentioned that reflections from the surface areas on the front baffle were the cause of some of the variations in f response but wouldn't that be true of most center speakers, the Ultra doesn't impress me as being all that different from other big 3 way cc's.
Some are very different from others even if they looks similar.
i want to see some of your other speakers. would love to see the xstatics.
He did a video about the X-Statik a couple months ago.
@@hoth2112 i would like to hear a demo. i heard the nx otica, xls encores. But i have never heard the xstatics.
I have listened to some of Danny's speakers and they are definitely end game. I can vouch for what I heard and if you want extremely clean speakers that sound about as coherent as any speaker I've ever heard.... the nxtreme and Oticas are it. I would definitely recommend using something with it to take care of below 50 hz. His servo subs are on my short list as well.
And thankyou very much for your explanation of how you go about making improvements i have learned a great deal from your content.
@@ufarkingicehole ive been lucky enough to hear Dannys pair of NX-Tremes as well & theyre incredible, even with only 8W from his modded 300B Tube amp, they're clean, fast, & transparent, with next-level soundstaging and imaging.
Hi Danny, I have pair of KEF CS3 (DIY kit speakers from 1982). I compared them with with Spendor floorstander speakers (DIY kit from same period) and conclusion was that midrange on my speakers is veiled (piano sounded like piano cover is closed, while on Spendors it sounded like cover is open). I thought the crossover might be a problem because it is made of cheap components (iron core inductors - size of dollar coin, polystirene capacitors - very small in size - 2-3 grains of bean) so the whole crossover is a size of cigarette box, component were just soldered together. I also changed a factory suggested crossover scheme (i did not use some capacitors, and i am not sure about inductance value of inductors because my friend made it for me). What is your opinion will my speakers sound better if i upgrade crossover with better parts.
Put that polyfill to centterspk's in to reflex-tubes 🤗
ATC has a really good crossover with air core inductors and bennic capacitors but I’m sure you can make it even better.
everything is built to a price point
Link?
Have u upgraded the B&W's(602s2) and if so what are the results?
Good idea.
I happened to have sort of concerto 1967 kef I googlit it ..one of a kind 4 tweeter 3 mains 2 bass on one speaker.
What upgrade for crossover any suggestions ?
A newbie question. Can Audyssey calibration software via home theater receiver /pre-amp correct some of these frequency response issues? Thank you for this video, very informative.
To a certain extent, yes, but it's much, MUCH better to start out with a really great sounding speaker with a decently smooth frequency response across the musical frequency spectrum first and foremost, and then only EQ it very slightly, and even then ONLY IF it's still actually even needed in your specific listening room or position, (AND if you can't first improve it by changing positions in the room, either by moving yourself and/or the speakers themselves), rather than trying to use "DSP" as a "Band-Aid type fix" for a horrible sounding to begin with speaker, because DSP adds its own level of phase shift and harmonic distortion to the sound, therefore usually ruining the overall imaging and soundstage of the speakers, even if the overall frequency response might become slightly smoother...
Using ANY kind of DSP "correction" software to try and "fix" a horrible to start with speaker is kind of like trying to fix E.D. with Viagra or whatever... It only deals with the "symptoms" instead of the root cause of the bad sound quality, so DSP can in some ways make it sound even *worse, after* the DSP "correction" is applied, because of the reasons stated in the first paragraph above.
I tried to EQ but still sounded terrible
Have you ever done any upgrades to Definitive Technology speakers?
A few.
Does upgrade measurable in terms of transients?
How about a kit for a JBL 8o TI?
Dear sir, do you sell parts for an upgrade for the Acoustic Research ar3a?
I just discovered your channel and it looks very interesting. I searched for 'active' in your videos and didn't find anything. Wouldn't it be a good idea to build (or convert to) active speakers with built in amplifiers which don't need the expensive crossovers? Thanks
Thanks for joining in. Active speakers start you down a rabbit hole of a whole new group of problems and bottlenecks. Have you noticed that most active speakers are super budget level in price and performance? There is a reason (a lot of reasons) for that.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks for your fast reply. A long time ago I helped my father buying an expensive HiFi system. And at that time active speakers were promoted for their better sound because they have separate amplifiers for each loudspeaker and the crossover (not sure if that name was used) for line level signals doesn't cost much. That's where my thoughts come from.
Ever try DCM speakers?
ok so what manufacturer uses parts acceptable to you? I havent seen one yet
The KEF parts are crucial to the sound, inferior and all. Keep it that way.
Could I get the details of your measurement techniques ? I recently looked a at friends Klipsh 8000 you did a fix on it it had poor build quality so I shit caned the whole crossover and replaced it with good 10gage solder connections them bimmped them with a 24 db crossover set at 1.2k it sounded great till. It died , and took about a week from what I have see. The small voice coil could not take the power can you suggest one that might?
Oh I forgot I added a 6 my open coil 18 gage coke on the bottom driver to 🏡Illuminate their interaction and make it a 2.5 way
Danny have you also tried mineral wool insulation like Rockwool/Roxoul inside speaker enclosures? Did you find you liked the result of using it vs fiberglass or polyfil?
I have used some of that kind of insulation in speakers before, and it definitely works quite well! Probably even better than plain fiberglass does, probably because that mineral/rock wool insulation is specifically designed to dampen sound... However, because that type of insulation is so effective at absorbing and dissipating sound, you have to be careful not to use too much of it, because it will almost dampen TOO much if you stuff the speaker cabinet full of it, resulting in a lower SPL output of the speaker overall. That's why you have to use it strategically!...
But it definitely does what it's designed to do! So I would also love to hear what Danny has to say about it, given all of his many years of experience with speakers of all different designs!
@@JoeJ-8282 can a speaker cabinet be dampened too much?
Wouldn’t a dead cabinet be the ideal cabinet? Re SPL’s: isn’t this a case of quality vs quantity? If you are not limited in amplifier power, isn’t getting clean SPL’s better?
@@doronor6552 Is too much damping even possible?... The short answer to that is YES, but that totally depends on MANY factors, the overall design of the speaker being the main one, and how well the whole system (of a speaker as a whole) is implemented and how well all of its individual components integrate and work together... or don't...
Isn't a totally "dead" or inert cabinet always the best/ideal?... In most cases I agree, yes, however, that is NOT ALWAYS the case. Some speakers are actually designed very similarly to carefully tuned musical instruments, especially stringed ones, (like a guitar, etc.), where the entire cabinet, along with all of its specific resonances and resulting harmonics, is designed into (to become an integral part of) the overall sound of the speaker, to very subtly enhance the overall sound produced by the entire speaker as a whole... (Yeah, IKR?! I just learned that recently too!) I have recently personally listened (IN PERSON, IN STORE) to one brand in particular that incorporated that exact design aspect into their speakers, and as it turns out, they are some of the most awe inspiring, lifelike, and euphorically pleasing speakers I have EVER heard in my entire life so far!... That company is GamuT btw, in case you are wondering... Apparently they are one of a small handful of speaker companies that use that kind of design in their speakers, where they essentially take advantage of specific exotic wood laminates' frequency resonances and associated harmonics, and use those to *enhance* the overall sound quality of the speaker as an entire system... I believe that Tekton Design is another company that does that, even though I've never heard any of their speakers personally, so I cannot attest to how good they are... But they usually get pretty great reviews, so I would love to compare some Tekton Design speakers with a few GamuT speakers sometime, side by side in the same listening room, (preferably my own), and see which ones I actually like best overall, because both brands are very impressively built, beautiful looking, (IMO), and relatively inexpensive for what they seem to offer in design and capabilities/specs. Most models from both of those companies are (only) in the multiple 1000's of dollars price range, instead of multiple 10,000's or even some 100,000+ dollars price range, like some "boutique audiophile" brands are, and IMO, usually the $1K-$10K price range is that "magic sweet spot" (or range) where speakers are usually the overall BEST price/performance ratio.
Now, as far as SPLs go, (when relating to speaker cabinet damping level), cleaner sound is definitely better to have than louder sound, (IF it's just a simple tradeoff between those two aspects, where all else is equal, and if a given speaker HAS to be lower SPL just to produce a clean output, and/or a speaker HAS to have a "dirtier" output just in order to have a louder output, however, that's usually not always a balanced tradeoff, and it is totally possible to have a relatively loud AND clean speaker, just as it's also totally possible to have a speaker that has relatively low SPL output, but is still rather "distorted" sounding), but if a speaker cabinet is too overdamped, (even MORE than what is necessary to eliminate any UNwanted cabinet resonances), it can also reach a point where you lose too much efficiency, and the individual speaker driver(s) that are in the overdamped cabinet section has to work TOO hard to produce sufficient SPL sound levels... In that case, TOO much amplifier power is also needed to compensate and the driver(s) may not be able to handle it, possibly overdriving either the amp &/or the speaker driver(s) themselves in an attempt to produce sufficient SPL levels... and doing that in itself increases distortion levels produced by the driver itself, therefore defeating the purpose of the damping material, so there is always a balance, a "sweet spot" of just the right amount of cabinet damping, but without going overboard with it and ultimately making the speaker sound too "flat", or in other words, too dull, boring, lifeless, and/or muffled sounding... You definitely don't want THAT!...
The important thing to note is that most speaker companies UNDER-damp their speaker cabinets, mainly because it's cheaper, easier, and quicker to build them, most people don't ever see the inside of a speaker anyway so they don't think about it, plus most ("average", NON-audiophile) listeners don't even know what cabinet resonances specifically sound like anyway, OR how any UNtuned and/or UNwanted resonances can degrade the overall sound quality and imaging of a speaker. Also, most ordinary speakers are NOT of the "tuned cabinet resonance" type, so the "bottom line" here is that in MOST cases, MOST speakers can benefit from SOME additional damping material being added into their cabinets for better, cleaner, less "colored", less "muddy" sound out of them, especially in the midrange and midbass regions of the overall sound spectrum... Hence what Danny does with that "No-Res" stuff he usually adds... He just doesn't stuff the entire cabinet FULL of that stuff, he only lines the underdamped cabinet walls with it, because overstuffing the cabinet past the point that is beneficial for basic cabinet wall resonance reduction would be totally unnecessary AND actually detrimental to the overall sound of the speaker, for all of the reasons explained above...
Hopefully this "mini novel" here, (lol), will help you (or anyone reading this comment thread), to better understand the finer nuances of speaker cabinet damping, and also show you just one of the MANY reasons why speaker designing, building, and improving is a VERY complicated, but truly "fine ART"!
Hello, do you have solutions for svs prime Pinnacle towers?
To be honest, I have both the prime and ultra centers. Absolutely the worst and most fatiguing sound ever. I thought maybe it was my emotiva gear. Then I bought a parasound A23+, and a A23 bridged to mono for the center. I have Dirac, I used equalizers, even a BBE sonic maximizer. I am dumping all my ultras and moving on to focal. I am glad you found the fix. Yes, tempted to upgrade. But just Absolutely disappointed in SVS. I hooked up am old DCM KX center and it blew away the ultra center. Unbelievable.
I have almost exact experience. I am tempted to pay the $315 to do the Center Ultra upgrade but worried it will still sound terrible. For a little more I can buy a Focal center.
How about complete parts for the alon IV speaker crossovers.they took a short burst of DC voltage from a adcom 555 amplifier.all drivers still sound fine and test good ohm reading wise they just lost the deep soundstage effect.please let me know if u can help.thanks Pete.
I'd have to have one of them here to help you with it.
@@dannyrichie9743 Hey Danny.thanks for the reply.I'm gonna pull one from one of the cabinets and i will send u a couple of pictures.thanks Pete.
Someone should send in a KEF Q7. A great but cheap speaker that I am sure could need an upgrade kit.
hi i am after a nice warmmmmm speakers any thought ?
Do you like the klipsch sixes?
Hi jim here just found your channel quick question what do you think of the kliptch KLF-20 legend and do you have an upgrade thanks for your time. Jim
I really haven't thought too much of their designs thus far, but I have not had that one over here yet.
@Dannok thanks maybe ill send you one thanks again. Jim
Love you guys
Would you consider doing something similar for the SVS ultra bookshelves?
He just posted a video for the ultra bookshelves so I hope a kit is coming soon!
Already available online.
Are the components assemble or pre?
Yes, put in better cross over parts, but don't touch the cabinet, they're thin wall, like the Spendor BC1 for a reason.
I doubt that, especially given their age AND especially the material they're made out of! (cheap particle board)
ALL of the speakers that I've seen where the company actually finely tunes their cabinets like a very fine, delicately nuanced musical instrument to resonate *in harmony* with and enhancing of the drivers in the overall speaker's total "system" sound, therefore actually enhancing, (in a good way), the drivers, all of those speaker companies are VERY high-end, and they always use either very specific, hand selected types of REAL SOLID WOOD for the walls of the cabinets, or even more often, usually a hydraulically pressed laminate "plywood", made from a few different types of solid wood sheets glued and very tightly pressed together, in order to get the best and most positively enhancing acoustic properties from the cabinet itself, kind of like an expensive piano or something!... THOSE types of cabinets are sometimes designed like that on purpose, in which case you'd probably be best not fucking with them at all, but any speaker with a flimsy, cheap particle board cabinet, especially an older *vintage* speaker like that KEF there, (before very many speaker companies were doing that kind of thing, of tuning the cabinet wood), is NOT going to be purposely *designed* to be resonant in any specific way... If it is resonant or rattles or sounds like a drum or hollow, and it's just cheaply made, (out of particle board especially), and it also doesn't have any kind of internal bracing inside of it, like that KEF he has there, then anything that you can do to the cabinet, insulation and bracing-wise will only improve the clarity of the sound from it, especially in the midbass and midrange! (get rid of boominess and "muddyness", but still retaining the fullness and richness)
The only minor caveat to improving the cabinet's "sound", (or wanted lack thereof), by adding bracing and an extra layer of wood to the inside of it to make it stiffer and less resonant, is that adding all of that stuff inside the box will possibly change the low-end tuning of the box, possibly sometimes negatively affecting the lowest frequency response ability of the speaker because the internal cabinet volume (space) is reduced by adding the stuff to make the cabinet stiffer and tighter... Making the bass much cleaner and tighter, but with possibly less extreme low-end ability due to the slightly smaller volume cabinet after the mods to make it stronger. (but that usually CAN be accommodated for in other ways if needed)... Luckily that KEF he has there is a passive radiator design instead of ported, which is slightly more forgiving in general to minor cabinet size, (internal cubic inch volume), changes than a ported design is. A ported box works best with a very specific box volume and driver parameters.
Anyway, I totally understand what you were talking about, but I don't think that this specific vintage KEF speaker could be hurt by slightly modifying the cabinet in the ways Danny's talking about here, simply because "it is what it is", (i.e. nothing special), so I think it would be at least worth a try to improve it!... Given what it is, I would try to improve it also, if those were my speakers!
is that not one of the speaker design concepts with the British ? Thin wall cabinet construction ? Harbeth , Spendor Rogers have similar cabinet designs as well --
Can you record music through them before and after?
then you have to go there to hear it, cheers
"The passive radiator is tuned to 40Hz" -Starts graph at 200Hz. 🤔
For a 100W rated AVR a 3 ohm speaker would want to draw 33W more than a 4 ohm in a worst case scenario. That's only 1.2dB, not a big deal. If you're pushing your center that hard to hit reference levels, it's time to get larger/more efficient designs or upgrade power.
Have you done a kit for the JBL L80T THANKS.
I have a pair of L80 T3 crossovers if interested.Pete.
@@clydebaker3484 are they the upgraded or stock and the magic question how much? and thank you.
@@clydebaker3484 ok Pete are these upgraded or originals? then what would the cost be?
@@michaeleales7097 Hey Michael.they are bone stock and the price is 80.00 plus probably 15.00 for s&h.Pete
@@clydebaker3484 im looking to upgrade mine I have them bone stock as well but thank you kindly
Hey you should go for a set of Pioneer HPM 100 by the great engeener Bart Lancotti who desighned them to stomp all over the old jbl l-100 Bart desighned. The hpm 100 their a crazy 4 way speaker that can actually punch you in the chest and 92.5 db efficancy ! I would send you mine but their 75 pounds each !
Do you have a video on the pioneer?🤔😉😬