I did a fundaments course with you in Peterborough, Canada last September and six months, many matches and maybe 15,000 rounds later I can say I am FINALLY starting to shoot target focused with the iron sights on my Shadow II. At first I would do the back and forth thing (you kept telling me "you're over confirming, you're still over confirming") but after a while I realized when I went back to the front sight it was right where it should be so now I just send it. What's really weird too is I now see the holes going in the target as my focus is there instead of on the front sight. I havta admit tho for tight/tough shots I still want to check back to the sight, I got more work to do...
FINALLY! Great job! As and eye doctor for 35 years, you're talking about depth of focus. At any age, you cannot have simultaneous focus of the target and the iron sights. It's not possible. SO....target focus and it's OK if the irons are in a "soft" or blurry focus...You will be just as accurate.
Not sure how relevant this is, but I found that spending a year learning to shoot a red dot pistol was absolutely the best thing I ever did to improve my iron sights shooting. I didn't even train that hard with it, just a couple nights of dryfire a week learning my presentation and where the dot was. Then one day after a live fire session I pulled out the ol' 1911 and found to my surprise that not only was I shooting target focused with iron sights, but I could now shoot irons with both eyes open, something that had eluded me for decades. Really enjoy your videos, thanks for putting them up.
I experienced the same thing after shooting a dot the last 6 months. I can shoot irons better than ever before and I haven’t used them for months. I learned more about my refining my grip and trigger pull after 1 month on a red dot than I had learned in the last 5 years with irons too.
The great thing about this technique, is this is what you would really do in a real life self defense situation . . . focus on the threat with aligned but blurry sights.
Thanks for brining this to more people's attention. And yes it works. Target focused shooting is for both dots and irons. Not needing to switch techniques between the two just makes life easier and training consistent regardless of sighting system.
This is the same technique that is taught in clay target shooting and makes so much more sense to me than sight-focused shooting. Same logic applies to any ball sport, or for that matter, driving or anything else that requires hand-eye coordination. Always focus on the target, not your hands or what's in your hands.
I shot like that when I was younger and people were amazed and how well I could shoot. Got back into guns and shooting about 10 years ago and started using current methods. Still a good shot, but not as good as I used to be. I need to retrain myself. Great video and advice!
Ben thank you for posting these excellent training videos. All the hours of work you share with us has made me a much better pistol shooter. Today I had day/night qual with the new AZ law enforcement qual. 40rds compared to the 50, and I made easy work of the qual. Your tech and presentation is very easy to understand and your calm approach is definitely underestimated. Thank you for helping me become a better pistol shooter. 👍
Another thing I've found is that if people are looking at their (iron) front sight, they're usually closing one eye to avoid seeing the target in double. Make sure both eyes are open and it's a lot easier to get them to focus on the target. One of the troubles you'll still run into is that their focus (in the optical sense) may be on the target, but their attention (in the mental sense) is on the sights. Meaning they'll still wait to see something (however blurry) from the sights and pull the trigger at a moment that the sights aren't covering what they're ostensibly aiming at. I think the root of that problem is simply not enough time put in to build consistency with the gun placement, whereas a more experienced shooter places the gun in the same orientation every time and points without devoting significant conscious resources to front and rear sight alignment.
This is how I learned to shoot as a kid, all on my own, and I had no idea how to shoot otherwise. It just never felt comfortable to stare at something close like the sights. Switching to a red dot actually screwed me up because my eyes would want to focus on the dot, but it's doubly worse due to my astigmatism. (I've got it 95% corrected with glasses but there is still a halation effect going on around the dot. Considering switching back to irons...)
I’m so happy I stumbled across your videos. I’ve been a shotgun shooter my whole life and learned to focus on the target and see the bead in the peripheral. I got interested in handguns a few years ago and all the training videos said to focus on the front sight and I’ve really struggled with that. After seeing your video I realize I can go back to doing what makes sense to me. Thank you.
I was quite literally explaining this to a shooter tonight (who was shooting Production). This is the second time I talk a training point with someone, come home, and then see you posted a video that same day on that same topic lol
In my years of Clay shooting and wing shooting, I learned how to target focus exclusively and it transitioned over to pistol shooting nicely. As a result, thankfully I never went through a sight focused phase with irons on handguns. Target focused is the best
I realized today that this is how I instinctively shoot. Didn’t even realize I was doing it. Anything less then 7 yards drawing and firing quickly I’m focused at a specific spot on the target and while the front sight is fuzzy it is superimposed over the target and everything is lined up. They just naturally line up with where I’m focusing. It’s not precision stuff but it hits the target just fine. Once I’m at 7 yards and further I naturally, unconsciously, switch my focus to the front sight. Again not much attention at all to the rear sights. I think now this is why I have always hated 3 dot sights cause the rear sight dots pull my attention away from both the front sight a bit and definitely away from the target. I grew up shooting revolvers, especially SAA types. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it. Also never been a big fan of fat front sight blade as it kind of obscures the spot on the target I want to aim and hit. That was a struggle for me when getting into semiautos. In any case, I believe in a real world scenario when the stuff hits the fan that most people will automatically and instinctively be focused on the threat, not the sights. It’s probably quite unnatural to pull your focus off a threat feet in front of you to focus instead on something else like the sights. Just my thoughts and observations, right or wrong.
yep.. that's what i do when i practice and i compete in Idpa.. blurry sights superimposed on the target zone where i want the bullet to go.. Sometimes it does sometimes it don't .. 🙂
How do you stay consistent with where the barrel is pointing with a blurry sight picture? I'm imagining a method to get used to it: 1) Target focus. 2) Sight focus to verify a properly aligned sight picture. 3) Back to target focus - observe and memorize what a blurry sight picture looks like. After a while you shoot target focused and you're bringing your now familiar friend Mr Blurry Sights along for the ride. 😅
I've always had a problem with front sight focus. Seems my eye domination is a little screwy. Since i started practicing Target focus, I can see the sights (yes they are blury) but perfectly visible and it's so much easier to get the lined up. Was really and AHA moment. Thank you.
I’ve heard you talk about this before and I had a hard time getting there. So I’m back to dots to try and build the habit a little more thoroughly before dropping back to irons. Wish me luck.
I think this is a much needed topic specific to irons b/c most of the conversation around it is re: rds. This is great. Any dry or live drills to help work on this would be fantastic. Although the application is the same, the execution can be difficult to stay focused/honest with irons. So, w/ a dot, you can occlude the dot, but with irons you have to force your eyes to stay target focused without a training aid (tape on sight, etc.) to point out error. It can be difficult to keep from pulling your focus in to the sight on tighter/farther shots or when your shooting speeds up. I saw how well your class worked for Nick Reynolds!
I’ve shot irons like this for many many years. I have NEVER don’t the front sight focus nonsense. Yes, the irons may be a little blurry, but you can still align them in your peripheral vision. As Pat Mac said “embrace the blur”. That being said, I have recently switched to using an optic and it has been an easy transition for me because I have always target focused.
Thanks for the tip at the end to practice with slow groups to build confidence. I found myself switching back and forth from target to sight focused because i lacked confidence. I will be training this hard till i can get the same speed i had with a RDS.
I pracrice indoors. Quarter size black dots at 15 ft, 20ft etc and yea the sights blur but i verify my aim with a laser. This has improved my shooting at the range.
Hello again! I’ve been target focused training with iron sights since 9-2020, with roughly 37k live rounds under my belt…which places me squarely on the bunny hill, learning to snowplow in this company…but I’m doing my best to figure it out. I had a Romeo Zero on my P320 for a short period and I put the fixed sights back on. For me at this stage, the dot is a crutch. IMHO, target focused handgun manipulation works because it reallocates sensory bandwidth away from vision, to touch and feel; fine motor control…and this game is all about feel…as the big dogs surely already know. Take target “focus” to the next level, and you don’t need to see the firearm to place shots on target…and of course, this is not anything like “point shooting” or natural point of aim.
Hey Ben, I have some concerns and thoughts about that topic, which I want to share with you. I'm following you for a while now and I applied target focussed shooting into my training about a year ago (iron sights). But there are often times, where I'm 'switching' in between target focus and sight focus, but not in the 'one or the other' way. For understanding: My left eye is on the target, my right eye (dominant) is watching the sights or should I say it is aware of the sight. I can apply target focus on all target situations (smaller targets in a distance, moving target, partials etc) with good precision. But only if there is no time pressure (static e.g.) or until 'im shooting a match. Because I don't want to mess up and lose points, I'm re-using old aiming schemes for better confirmation 'in a hurry', but because of target focussed practice, my eyes are setting themselves to a 'in-between-distance'. Let me explain, maybe you can relate to that from your first months or years of target focussed shooting with irons. Targets up to 5 meters...no problem. Above that, especially on harder targets with no-shoots etc, my right eye is getting a clearer image of the front sight post (red fiber) and my left eye is losing SOME clarity from the target. BUT neither is the target now blurry nor the sights completely sharp. I'm adjusting both so that I have a good confirmation for the upcoming shot. Target has still a good shape and no frayed and somewhat blurry outsides although it is not totally sharp, I would say 60% target sharpness, and 40% Irons. I experimented with it. For example I shot a stage in my training and at a certain point after running a bit and shooting, I 'freezed' myself in a difficult aiming position to analyze and observe the sight picture. Found out, that I can always put more focus on the sight or the target which leaves me with the idea of me using some 'hybrid-aiming-schemes', which is a bit frustrating for me, because it's an addictive feeling to shoot ONLY target focussed. :D So in conclusion, my shooting would be considered as sight-focussed shooting, right? Because there is no mix in between. I would highly appreciate, if you could share your thoughts on that. Has this happened to you as well at some point or stage of your carreer? And is that just part of the process to get target-focussed or am I too frightened to go 'all the way' with my practice? Had a two-day-coaching with Eric Grauffel at the beginning of this year in France and he told me to be sight focussed above 3-5 meters, because IPSC is about the points and target focus at a high level is still not accurate enough with irons. So I'm a bit confused. If you made it until this point: much appreciated. :) Greets from Germany and thank you for everything you've done for the shooting sports so far.
So normally as we get older and I am 78, I need glasses with magnification that would allow me to see the front sight. So based on this just shoot without them as then the sights are blurry all the time anyway and just target focus,. I do target focus with the red dot. Works great.
I’ve been shooting this way for quite a while. When I figured it out, I felt like I had “cracked the code”. I have astigmatism and mild cataracts, so dots are not a good fit for me.
I did transitioning to shot like this years ago and don't shoot less precise with this technique. The big plus is, that you train what you end up with: I can't imagine anybody focus at the irons, while getting attacked or something.
Good advice I will try this approach I shot a couple matches in the last couple weeks with irons and I think I was switching back and forth between the front sight and target will need to keep practicing at this but when your in a match there's so much more going on so fast and the pressure it's not a good place to really drill down on fundamentals. Also a new gun, new shooting rig set up really need to focus on getting good at one thing at a time !
So its very interesting as everone I have ever had a lesson with or heard on youtube before Ben has stressed front sight focus. Everything Ben says makes sense as well as the comment from the one eye doctor below. I cannot wait to get to the range when I actually have some money again and try this for the very first time
I was taught to shoot like this in the military 20 years ago. I focus on the target and my non-dominant (left) eye projects another set of sights ( whole gun, really) to the right of my actual sight picture. I just discern which set of sights I need to impose over the in-focus target.
It seems like the type of irons is more relevant for target focus. Like, you can align J frame (almost non-existent) sights okay with a front sight focus, but I feel like you will barely see them at all using sight focus. Whereas a Big Dot sight is essentially the iron version of a red dot - you just simply see it glowing over your target focus and know you're aligned properly.
It definitely does work. The hard part is keeping the off eye focused on the spot on the target. You naturally want to switch back to looking and following the dot. As I do this more I see that it becomes easier to stay focused on the spot and not the dot. The key is learning to recognize when you are back to watching the dot.
It would be interesting to start out new shooters with this technique as opposed to the traditional hard front sight focus and see how they progress? Thanks for the information.
I'm going to try again. I have so far failed to get this. But that slow fire tip seems like a good one. I'll get out to the range and do it a bunch. I did just buy a case of training ammo. Thanks Ben.
Ben, Target focused with Irons what is your definition of shooting "effectively" at distance? Specifically A- zone vs. NRA B8 for score at 25 yards. When the accuracy level required increases at distance isn't there a requisite increase in sight alignment confirmation needed?
Im not a comp guy, just a defensive/combat shooter if you will. And before I knew you existed, I instinctively target focused during live on live training with sim rounds. Only recently have I begun to commit to training target focused even out to 50 yards with my G47 and Taran sights, green finer with black serrated rear. And sure as crap, it works. Wish I wouldve known sooner
When I started shooting IPSC matches, I naturally developed a tendency to target focus on anything within 7 or 10 yards, I guess mostly because it speeds things up and seems more naturally. After later shooting dots mostly I stopped further experimenting with it and basically shoot targetfocus up close and front sight focus for harder shots. However, with most of my latest irons pistol matches beeing indoor, the lighting conditions there also f+ck around with some of the more seasoned irong sight shooters. Adding another layer of target focusing for also the precise shots there probably needs quite a bit of getting used to. But I coming from a lot of dot shooting I totally understand the benefits. Especially on the move or on moving targets...
I've always been told "watch the front sight only" don't look at the target, it should be blurry. If I'm hearing you correctly?....I've been doing it wrong? Correct me...?
So I guess the equivalent of seeing flash of red or seeing the dot is going to be see the front sight, see the front sight anywhere in the notch, or see the front sight aligned in the notch depending on range for shot accountability?
When I started I was shooting irons but then I did not have the knowledge to understand if I was target focused, front sight focused or whatever. Then after a year or so I switched to a red dot for a while. Started watching your videos, experimenting and experiencing things. Then I switched back to irons and I realized what a target focus is. Now I know that when I started shooting I was front sight focused all day, but now I very occasionally focus on the front sight for shots I consider difficult. And sometimes I feel like I shoot a stage without consciously even seeing my front sight, but kinda subconsciously I know it's there because otherwise how would I get good hits? For me It's reeeealllyy weird feeling to be target focused. It's almost like super uncomfortable because I feel like I don't know where I'm shooting. Very often when I shoot a high pace stage I get this surprised feeling that my shots were actually good but I didn't perceive them to be good. I don't know if you get what I mean.
I understand your explanation, but how do you precisely align the sights if you’re not focussed on the front sight?? With the red dot there’s no alignment so target focus makes sense.
Being cross eye dominant this has been a real pain 😂, I have to use the second, even more blurry, set of sights I am seeing as I keep both eyes open. Training away though to try and make it second nature.
That's how I was I started taping my left eye with clear tape and practicing then after a month or a little more started just practice 2 eyes open target focus with a airsoft gun just aiming at random shit in garage and now it works mint one day It just fixed itself and I was like wtf lmao
Can you talk about the process of shot calling while target focused? My problem is that when the target is small enough or far away, then a blurry red or green fiber streak does not give me enough information to precisely tell where the bullet hit. I just don't know how aligned my gun is with a small/far target with sights that are blurry. Thanks.
I find that I can stay target focused using irons. But only if I keep my non dominant eye closed or almost closed. The second I try to shoot both eyes open on irons and target focused I lose the irons into a blurry mess. I can shoot red dots both eyes open and target focused just fine. Any tips on shooting both eyes open with irons and target focused?
I actually never learned about front sight focus until my 30s. I cant figure it out. I genuinely cant do it even if i try hard for whatever reason. But it hasnt been a problem. When i got a dot i couldnt relate to people who struggled with target focus. Is interesting stuff how brains work...
Can someone who shoots in the high 90’s on a 25 yard bullseye (NRA B8) do as well target focused? Target focused sounds like when I was told to not to look over my sights.
Ben, would you be able to address sighting in a red dot on a pistol in a video? Is there any point in time I should be focused on the dot in the sighting in process or do I still stay target focused? Would there be any reason that constitutes focusing on the dot? Thanks in advance!
If you focus on the dot with a red dot, it becomes less clear. You may not notice this with a simple dot reticle, but if you add circles or BDC or what have you, you'll notice that if you try to focus on the dot your view of the sight will simply become blurry rather than getting any clearer. Always look at the target for RDS.
The problem I'm having is that when the front sight gets blurry I tend to line up the fiber optic with the top of the sights, particularly when going fast(ish). Would this be a training issue or a vision issue (I have less than optimal eyesight)
I feel farther targets are easier to shoot target focused with irons and stay target focused. At least in match conditions where a red dot is going to be bright enough to be easily noticed.
No problem to shoot tight groups with both eyes open when shooting slow. But one opens two eyes to get some speed. And at minipoper at 25 yards would be much faster to shoot with one eye than with two eyes open. How do I gain the same speed?
You can do that, but it is less precise. Plenty of people probably do that on 3-7y hosing targets. You'll learn to adjust the level of sight confirmation you need based on the difficulty of the shot. Ben actually has lots of videos about this! Even when remaining target focused the whole time, you can adjust the level of sight confirmation in your awareness that you are reacting to. Close and easy? React to the flash of color of your sight. Farther away? Very aware of the post in the notch. 25 yards or past? Might need to be aware of the post being centered and level in the notch.
I do that with the front sight on my Hellcat. It's a circle and at close distances it is easier and faster to treat it like a dot. For 3-5 yards, and sometimes out to 7, I just plop the dot inside the a-zone and pull the trigger. My holds actually change as I get further out from the target. And they will change if I'm trying to be super precise.
Coming from high power and bullseye, this concept sounded heretical at first. Those two disciplines ingrain the target is a distraction and the tip of the front sights needs to be clearer than your future. Needless to say, I was way slower than others in 3 gun, 2 gun, USPSA etc. Putting all Ben's and Pranka's tutorials together, it suddenly clicked! Confirming sights is merely making sure the right tensions at wrists and fingers resulting in perfect alignment. So why not "skip" the sights and put the mental focus to tensions instead (as in the series of double taps drill). I put that to practice and the results have been mind blowing. Never knew you could get one ragged hole at 10 and beyond with blurry sights
I thought this was how you were supposed to shoot anyway, everyone has told me Ive been doing it wrong whenever I explain how I shoot, both eyes open focused on the target, sights are just being aligned with my eyes
@@notetaking9308 ahh I went to their website and it's turbo rainbows everywhere (not that there is anything wrong with that). It looks like I'll be squinting thru clears in the sun with a hundo still in my pocket.
I could target focus in the late seventies and early eighties with my super blackhawk. Who the hell said you couldn't target focus period that's the only way you're supposed to properly shoot a pistol in any tactical environment. The only time you revert to sight alignment within a site picture is when you have to provide a precise shot. The fifty yards or so i've never had a problem, after training, in making good hits.
Ben, i was taught this method a few decades ago. It was called point shooting. Same concept. This is how your brain works under stress at bad breath distance. However, once i get to 10 yards I HAVE to close one eye and front sight focus. YMMV
That just sounds like point shooting with extra steps. 1 step to be precise. In all seriousness though, I've been trying to be target focused with my Irons while I was shooting irons. I noticed in scenario trainings though that I have reverted to staring at the front sight because "Get your hits sonny" type training. still working on not focusing on the dancing stripper on my gun. (Red dots are much more distracting lol) I have found that point shooting really helped me be target focused. It also helped with general proprioception and finding the sights on the draw. I'm not saying to point shoot 40 yards, but use point shooting drills early in training to jumpstart some important fundamentals. My draw is basically a point shot to the sight and then use the sights as a reference.
People don't know how to shoot, they don't know how to think outside the box, they don't know how to trust muscle memory, they are bots reading gun rags. Love your stuff.
Why not practice both techniques same time? We do not have to choose one or another. Yes target focused during steel challenge 10 inch gongs at 10 yards and front sight shooting bullseye 1.5 inch at 50 yards... But we can practice alternating the focus while shooting and teach ourselves which method to employ depending on the accuracy needed for each shot. Eye muscles are pretty small but very fast, but we need to train moving those muscles focusing into sights and out to targets, just like training any other motor skill. Of course if you have specialized sights for a discipline it might be harder to do one of the other method, say you have a bullseye gun with sharp smoked wide sights with tight airgap, or one of them XS sights ball on a dinner plate kind of sight picture. Otherwise with most open sights both focus methods can be trained and selected for each shot during a string
I did a fundaments course with you in Peterborough, Canada last September and six months, many matches and maybe 15,000 rounds later I can say I am FINALLY starting to shoot target focused with the iron sights on my Shadow II. At first I would do the back and forth thing (you kept telling me "you're over confirming, you're still over confirming") but after a while I realized when I went back to the front sight it was right where it should be so now I just send it. What's really weird too is I now see the holes going in the target as my focus is there instead of on the front sight. I havta admit tho for tight/tough shots I still want to check back to the sight, I got more work to do...
@Dive-Deeper
Had that today when the red fibre insert took off. Was weird trying to line up the top edge not being used to it.
Blurry front sight clear target, blurry front sight clear target, blurry front sight clear target…say it with me…
FINALLY! Great job! As and eye doctor for 35 years, you're talking about depth of focus. At any age, you cannot have simultaneous focus of the target and the iron sights. It's not possible. SO....target focus and it's OK if the irons are in a "soft" or blurry focus...You will be just as accurate.
Not sure how relevant this is, but I found that spending a year learning to shoot a red dot pistol was absolutely the best thing I ever did to improve my iron sights shooting. I didn't even train that hard with it, just a couple nights of dryfire a week learning my presentation and where the dot was. Then one day after a live fire session I pulled out the ol' 1911 and found to my surprise that not only was I shooting target focused with iron sights, but I could now shoot irons with both eyes open, something that had eluded me for decades.
Really enjoy your videos, thanks for putting them up.
I experienced the same thing after shooting a dot the last 6 months. I can shoot irons better than ever before and I haven’t used them for months. I learned more about my refining my grip and trigger pull after 1 month on a red dot than I had learned in the last 5 years with irons too.
same thing for me using a dot sparingly on my glock 40.
The great thing about this technique, is this is what you would really do in a real life self defense situation . . . focus on the threat with aligned but blurry sights.
Thanks for brining this to more people's attention. And yes it works. Target focused shooting is for both dots and irons. Not needing to switch techniques between the two just makes life easier and training consistent regardless of sighting system.
This is the same technique that is taught in clay target shooting and makes so much more sense to me than sight-focused shooting. Same logic applies to any ball sport, or for that matter, driving or anything else that requires hand-eye coordination. Always focus on the target, not your hands or what's in your hands.
Instinctive archery is another. Like Lars Anderson.
I shot like that when I was younger and people were amazed and how well I could shoot. Got back into guns and shooting about 10 years ago and started using current methods. Still a good shot, but not as good as I used to be. I need to retrain myself. Great video and advice!
This is how I decided to use irons awhile ago. Glad my thought process makes sense to someone much more skilled than me
This technique really works for me. I feel like I'm driving the bullet into the target. Thanks fir the info 👍🏽
Ben thank you for posting these excellent training videos. All the hours of work you share with us has made me a much better pistol shooter. Today I had day/night qual with the new AZ law enforcement qual. 40rds compared to the 50, and I made easy work of the qual. Your tech and presentation is very easy to understand and your calm approach is definitely underestimated. Thank you for helping me become a better pistol shooter. 👍
Here to help !
Another thing I've found is that if people are looking at their (iron) front sight, they're usually closing one eye to avoid seeing the target in double. Make sure both eyes are open and it's a lot easier to get them to focus on the target. One of the troubles you'll still run into is that their focus (in the optical sense) may be on the target, but their attention (in the mental sense) is on the sights. Meaning they'll still wait to see something (however blurry) from the sights and pull the trigger at a moment that the sights aren't covering what they're ostensibly aiming at. I think the root of that problem is simply not enough time put in to build consistency with the gun placement, whereas a more experienced shooter places the gun in the same orientation every time and points without devoting significant conscious resources to front and rear sight alignment.
This is how I learned to shoot as a kid, all on my own, and I had no idea how to shoot otherwise. It just never felt comfortable to stare at something close like the sights.
Switching to a red dot actually screwed me up because my eyes would want to focus on the dot, but it's doubly worse due to my astigmatism. (I've got it 95% corrected with glasses but there is still a halation effect going on around the dot. Considering switching back to irons...)
I’m so happy I stumbled across your videos. I’ve been a shotgun shooter my whole life and learned to focus on the target and see the bead in the peripheral. I got interested in handguns a few years ago and all the training videos said to focus on the front sight and I’ve really struggled with that. After seeing your video I realize I can go back to doing what makes sense to me. Thank you.
I was quite literally explaining this to a shooter tonight (who was shooting Production). This is the second time I talk a training point with someone, come home, and then see you posted a video that same day on that same topic lol
In my years of Clay shooting and wing shooting, I learned how to target focus exclusively and it transitioned over to pistol shooting nicely. As a result, thankfully I never went through a sight focused phase with irons on handguns. Target focused is the best
I realized today that this is how I instinctively shoot. Didn’t even realize I was doing it. Anything less then 7 yards drawing and firing quickly I’m focused at a specific spot on the target and while the front sight is fuzzy it is superimposed over the target and everything is lined up. They just naturally line up with where I’m focusing. It’s not precision stuff but it hits the target just fine. Once I’m at 7 yards and further I naturally, unconsciously, switch my focus to the front sight. Again not much attention at all to the rear sights. I think now this is why I have always hated 3 dot sights cause the rear sight dots pull my attention away from both the front sight a bit and definitely away from the target. I grew up shooting revolvers, especially SAA types. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it. Also never been a big fan of fat front sight blade as it kind of obscures the spot on the target I want to aim and hit. That was a struggle for me when getting into semiautos. In any case, I believe in a real world scenario when the stuff hits the fan that most people will automatically and instinctively be focused on the threat, not the sights. It’s probably quite unnatural to pull your focus off a threat feet in front of you to focus instead on something else like the sights. Just my thoughts and observations, right or wrong.
yep.. that's what i do when i practice and i compete in Idpa.. blurry sights superimposed on the target zone where i want the bullet to go.. Sometimes it does sometimes it don't .. 🙂
I learned that way, on my own ,im Defnitly better with the 2 eye open blur.
Great video
How do you stay consistent with where the barrel is pointing with a blurry sight picture?
I'm imagining a method to get used to it:
1) Target focus.
2) Sight focus to verify a properly aligned sight picture.
3) Back to target focus - observe and memorize what a blurry sight picture looks like.
After a while you shoot target focused and you're bringing your now familiar friend Mr Blurry Sights along for the ride.
😅
I've always had a problem with front sight focus. Seems my eye domination is a little screwy. Since i started practicing Target focus, I can see the sights (yes they are blury) but perfectly visible and it's so much easier to get the lined up. Was really and AHA moment. Thank you.
Thanks a lot Ben.
Was wondering about exactly this when describing this in your other video. Thank you for clarifying!
With a laser, it is really easy to focus on the target (because that is where the dot is).
I’ve heard you talk about this before and I had a hard time getting there. So I’m back to dots to try and build the habit a little more thoroughly before dropping back to irons. Wish me luck.
I think this is a much needed topic specific to irons b/c most of the conversation around it is re: rds. This is great. Any dry or live drills to help work on this would be fantastic. Although the application is the same, the execution can be difficult to stay focused/honest with irons. So, w/ a dot, you can occlude the dot, but with irons you have to force your eyes to stay target focused without a training aid (tape on sight, etc.) to point out error. It can be difficult to keep from pulling your focus in to the sight on tighter/farther shots or when your shooting speeds up. I saw how well your class worked for Nick Reynolds!
I’ve shot irons like this for many many years. I have NEVER don’t the front sight focus nonsense. Yes, the irons may be a little blurry, but you can still align them in your peripheral vision. As Pat Mac said “embrace the blur”. That being said, I have recently switched to using an optic and it has been an easy transition for me because I have always target focused.
Ben, you are a resource that every pistol (and occasionally rifle) shooter should be paying attention to. Cheers!
Thanks for the tip at the end to practice with slow groups to build confidence. I found myself switching back and forth from target to sight focused because i lacked confidence. I will be training this hard till i can get the same speed i had with a RDS.
Still working on being target focused with iron sights. Love this video! Thank you Ben!
And here I thought I was the weird one for target focusing with irons
Same
I pracrice indoors. Quarter size black dots at 15 ft, 20ft etc and yea the sights blur but i verify my aim with a laser. This has improved my shooting at the range.
I have this horrible habit of closing one eye when I miss plates at distance....Great video "keep em coming"👌
Hello again! I’ve been target focused training with iron sights since 9-2020, with roughly 37k live rounds under my belt…which places me squarely on the bunny hill, learning to snowplow in this company…but I’m doing my best to figure it out.
I had a Romeo Zero on my P320 for a short period and I put the fixed sights back on. For me at this stage, the dot is a crutch.
IMHO, target focused handgun manipulation works because it reallocates sensory bandwidth away from vision, to touch and feel; fine motor control…and this game is all about feel…as the big dogs surely already know.
Take target “focus” to the next level, and you don’t need to see the firearm to place shots on target…and of course, this is not anything like “point shooting” or natural point of aim.
Hey Ben,
I have some concerns and thoughts about that topic, which I want to share with you.
I'm following you for a while now and I applied target focussed shooting into my training about a year ago (iron sights). But there are often times, where I'm 'switching' in between target focus and sight focus, but not in the 'one or the other' way.
For understanding:
My left eye is on the target, my right eye (dominant) is watching the sights or should I say it is aware of the sight.
I can apply target focus on all target situations (smaller targets in a distance, moving target, partials etc) with good precision. But only if there is no time pressure (static e.g.) or until 'im shooting a match. Because I don't want to mess up and lose points, I'm re-using old aiming schemes for better confirmation 'in a hurry', but because of target focussed practice, my eyes are setting themselves to a 'in-between-distance'.
Let me explain, maybe you can relate to that from your first months or years of target focussed shooting with irons.
Targets up to 5 meters...no problem. Above that, especially on harder targets with no-shoots etc, my right eye is getting a clearer image of the front sight post (red fiber) and my left eye is losing SOME clarity from the target. BUT neither is the target now blurry nor the sights completely sharp. I'm adjusting both so that I have a good confirmation for the upcoming shot. Target has still a good shape and no frayed and somewhat blurry outsides although it is not totally sharp, I would say 60% target sharpness, and 40% Irons. I experimented with it. For example I shot a stage in my training and at a certain point after running a bit and shooting, I 'freezed' myself in a difficult aiming position to analyze and observe the sight picture. Found out, that I can always put more focus on the sight or the target which leaves me with the idea of me using some 'hybrid-aiming-schemes', which is a bit frustrating for me, because it's an addictive feeling to shoot ONLY target focussed. :D
So in conclusion, my shooting would be considered as sight-focussed shooting, right? Because there is no mix in between.
I would highly appreciate, if you could share your thoughts on that. Has this happened to you as well at some point or stage of your carreer? And is that just part of the process to get target-focussed or am I too frightened to go 'all the way' with my practice? Had a two-day-coaching with Eric Grauffel at the beginning of this year in France and he told me to be sight focussed above 3-5 meters, because IPSC is about the points and target focus at a high level is still not accurate enough with irons. So I'm a bit confused.
If you made it until this point: much appreciated. :)
Greets from Germany and thank you for everything you've done for the shooting sports so far.
Ben Stoeger is the Wayne Gretzky of shooting sports.
So normally as we get older and I am 78, I need glasses with magnification that would allow me to see the front sight. So based on this just shoot without them as then the sights are blurry all the time anyway and just target focus,. I do target focus with the red dot. Works great.
I’ve been shooting this way for quite a while. When I figured it out, I felt like I had “cracked the code”. I have astigmatism and mild cataracts, so dots are not a good fit for me.
*cries in astigmatism*
Your instruction is excellent, helpful, and valuable. thank you for that.
I did transitioning to shot like this years ago and don't shoot less precise with this technique. The big plus is, that you train what you end up with: I can't imagine anybody focus at the irons, while getting attacked or something.
Good advice I will try this approach I shot a couple matches in the last couple weeks with irons and I think I was switching back and forth between the front sight and target will need to keep practicing at this but when your in a match there's so much more going on so fast and the pressure it's not a good place to really drill down on fundamentals. Also a new gun, new shooting rig set up really need to focus on getting good at one thing at a time !
So its very interesting as everone I have ever had a lesson with or heard on youtube before Ben has stressed front sight focus. Everything Ben says makes sense as well as the comment from the one eye doctor below. I cannot wait to get to the range when I actually have some money again and try this for the very first time
I target focus but squint the non dominant eye a bit for longer precise shots. Sharpens the blur enough but still keep a little bit of peripheral.
I was taught to shoot like this in the military 20 years ago. I focus on the target and my non-dominant (left) eye projects another set of sights ( whole gun, really) to the right of my actual sight picture. I just discern which set of sights I need to impose over the in-focus target.
It seems like the type of irons is more relevant for target focus.
Like, you can align J frame (almost non-existent) sights okay with a front sight focus, but I feel like you will barely see them at all using sight focus.
Whereas a Big Dot sight is essentially the iron version of a red dot - you just simply see it glowing over your target focus and know you're aligned properly.
It works. The best explanation of this I can't imagine. 👏🏼
I use orange Trijicon HDs and when I target focus I have a very clear picture of where my sights are. It’s almost like having a giant fuzzy dot lol.
It definitely does work. The hard part is keeping the off eye focused on the spot on the target. You naturally want to switch back to looking and following the dot. As I do this more I see that it becomes easier to stay focused on the spot and not the dot. The key is learning to recognize when you are back to watching the dot.
Thank you for this. I don't use a dot so been waiting for some irons talk lol
It would be interesting to start out new shooters with this technique as opposed to the traditional hard front sight focus and see how they progress? Thanks for the information.
I'm going to try again. I have so far failed to get this. But that slow fire tip seems like a good one. I'll get out to the range and do it a bunch. I did just buy a case of training ammo. Thanks Ben.
I got an optic guard. Been dry firing with it. I think it does help when teaching yourself to be target focused
Ben, Target focused with Irons what is your definition of shooting "effectively" at distance? Specifically A- zone vs. NRA B8 for score at 25 yards. When the accuracy level required increases at distance isn't there a requisite increase in sight alignment confirmation needed?
Im not a comp guy, just a defensive/combat shooter if you will. And before I knew you existed, I instinctively target focused during live on live training with sim rounds. Only recently have I begun to commit to training target focused even out to 50 yards with my G47 and Taran sights, green finer with black serrated rear. And sure as crap, it works. Wish I wouldve known sooner
Thank you sir. A very good video.
When I started shooting IPSC matches, I naturally developed a tendency to target focus on anything within 7 or 10 yards, I guess mostly because it speeds things up and seems more naturally. After later shooting dots mostly I stopped further experimenting with it and basically shoot targetfocus up close and front sight focus for harder shots. However, with most of my latest irons pistol matches beeing indoor, the lighting conditions there also f+ck around with some of the more seasoned irong sight shooters. Adding another layer of target focusing for also the precise shots there probably needs quite a bit of getting used to. But I coming from a lot of dot shooting I totally understand the benefits. Especially on the move or on moving targets...
Reminds me of instinctive recurve bow shootng which works well for me.
Beautiful range!
I've always been told "watch the front sight only" don't look at the target, it should be blurry. If I'm hearing you correctly?....I've been doing it wrong? Correct me...?
I've been doing this under 7 yds the entire 40+ years I've been shooting. Never knew what it was called. My grandpa taught me how to do it.
So I guess the equivalent of seeing flash of red or seeing the dot is going to be see the front sight, see the front sight anywhere in the notch, or see the front sight aligned in the notch depending on range for shot accountability?
But seeing the front sight will only work at really close range which is why iron sights can never be as fast as a red dot?
Makes sense to me!!
Just me going to a range this weekend to practice literally only this.
When I started I was shooting irons but then I did not have the knowledge to understand if I was target focused, front sight focused or whatever. Then after a year or so I switched to a red dot for a while. Started watching your videos, experimenting and experiencing things. Then I switched back to irons and I realized what a target focus is. Now I know that when I started shooting I was front sight focused all day, but now I very occasionally focus on the front sight for shots I consider difficult. And sometimes I feel like I shoot a stage without consciously even seeing my front sight, but kinda subconsciously I know it's there because otherwise how would I get good hits? For me It's reeeealllyy weird feeling to be target focused. It's almost like super uncomfortable because I feel like I don't know where I'm shooting. Very often when I shoot a high pace stage I get this surprised feeling that my shots were actually good but I didn't perceive them to be good. I don't know if you get what I mean.
If you have difficulty explaining what target focused shooting is, just liken it to a camera focusing on the target and not the sights
I understand your explanation, but how do you precisely align the sights if you’re not focussed on the front sight?? With the red dot there’s no alignment so target focus makes sense.
Being cross eye dominant this has been a real pain 😂, I have to use the second, even more blurry, set of sights I am seeing as I keep both eyes open. Training away though to try and make it second nature.
That's how I was I started taping my left eye with clear tape and practicing then after a month or a little more started just practice 2 eyes open target focus with a airsoft gun just aiming at random shit in garage and now it works mint one day It just fixed itself and I was like wtf lmao
@@henrysoares8334 crazy right! Nice once it finally clicked!
@joshdalton275 crazy right it's out of no where
how about swingers still target focused? about 25 yards? and how about swinging plates at 25?
Can you talk about the process of shot calling while target focused? My problem is that when the target is small enough or far away, then a blurry red or green fiber streak does not give me enough information to precisely tell where the bullet hit. I just don't know how aligned my gun is with a small/far target with sights that are blurry. Thanks.
I find that I can stay target focused using irons. But only if I keep my non dominant eye closed or almost closed. The second I try to shoot both eyes open on irons and target focused I lose the irons into a blurry mess. I can shoot red dots both eyes open and target focused just fine. Any tips on shooting both eyes open with irons and target focused?
I can't front sight focus. Never have been able to. target focus with irons just makes more sense to my brain
I actually never learned about front sight focus until my 30s. I cant figure it out. I genuinely cant do it even if i try hard for whatever reason. But it hasnt been a problem. When i got a dot i couldnt relate to people who struggled with target focus. Is interesting stuff how brains work...
So is the goal to be target focused, aiming spot HD sharp, with the front + rear sights not in focus BUT still in “blurry alignment“?
Focus your eyes on the target. Focus your attention on the sights aligned to the target.
That's how I would put it.
Can someone who shoots in the high 90’s on a 25 yard bullseye (NRA B8) do as well target focused? Target focused sounds like when I was told to not to look over my sights.
Ben, would you be able to address sighting in a red dot on a pistol in a video? Is there any point in time I should be focused on the dot in the sighting in process or do I still stay target focused? Would there be any reason that constitutes focusing on the dot?
Thanks in advance!
For a red dot, there is no reason I can think of to ever focus on the dot rather than the target.
If you focus on the dot with a red dot, it becomes less clear. You may not notice this with a simple dot reticle, but if you add circles or BDC or what have you, you'll notice that if you try to focus on the dot your view of the sight will simply become blurry rather than getting any clearer. Always look at the target for RDS.
Man, I really wanna live in a place like that. Is that Arizona? It's beautiful wherever that is.
How do you shoot irons with both eyes open?
Same as shooting a compound bow. Focus on target with a blurry pin.
The problem I'm having is that when the front sight gets blurry I tend to line up the fiber optic with the top of the sights, particularly when going fast(ish).
Would this be a training issue or a vision issue (I have less than optimal eyesight)
I feel farther targets are easier to shoot target focused with irons and stay target focused. At least in match conditions where a red dot is going to be bright enough to be easily noticed.
Do you have any particular g19/34 sized guns that you prefer over others?
No problem to shoot tight groups with both eyes open when shooting slow. But one opens two eyes to get some speed. And at minipoper at 25 yards would be much faster to shoot with one eye than with two eyes open. How do I gain the same speed?
Yeah, let me re-phrase. What are your thoughts on using the fiber optic like a red dot, instead of the top of the front sight for point of aim?
You can do that, but it is less precise. Plenty of people probably do that on 3-7y hosing targets. You'll learn to adjust the level of sight confirmation you need based on the difficulty of the shot. Ben actually has lots of videos about this! Even when remaining target focused the whole time, you can adjust the level of sight confirmation in your awareness that you are reacting to. Close and easy? React to the flash of color of your sight. Farther away? Very aware of the post in the notch. 25 yards or past? Might need to be aware of the post being centered and level in the notch.
I do that with the front sight on my Hellcat. It's a circle and at close distances it is easier and faster to treat it like a dot. For 3-5 yards, and sometimes out to 7, I just plop the dot inside the a-zone and pull the trigger. My holds actually change as I get further out from the target. And they will change if I'm trying to be super precise.
Coming from high power and bullseye, this concept sounded heretical at first. Those two disciplines ingrain the target is a distraction and the tip of the front sights needs to be clearer than your future.
Needless to say, I was way slower than others in 3 gun, 2 gun, USPSA etc.
Putting all Ben's and Pranka's tutorials together, it suddenly clicked! Confirming sights is merely making sure the right tensions at wrists and fingers resulting in perfect alignment. So why not "skip" the sights and put the mental focus to tensions instead (as in the series of double taps drill). I put that to practice and the results have been mind blowing. Never knew you could get one ragged hole at 10 and beyond with blurry sights
230 views in 12 seconds. 37 👍🏼. Hey, folks?!))) You just saved a ton of ammo and time to figure this out.
Can you target focus if you have a Astigmatism.
Yes you can.
I took my gun (SRO) with to the eye specialist...its still not perfect but its much better than before.
No no no … old gunny sergeant told me to stare at the front sight!
I thought this was how you were supposed to shoot anyway, everyone has told me Ive been doing it wrong whenever I explain how I shoot, both eyes open focused on the target, sights are just being aligned with my eyes
Baller shades bro! What are they?
Dude I practiced Tuesday 74 in the north wood's mag dump looking for a mag malfunction 13 yards all upper A zone hits target focus works.
@@notetaking9308 ahh I went to their website and it's turbo rainbows everywhere (not that there is anything wrong with that). It looks like I'll be squinting thru clears in the sun with a hundo still in my pocket.
I could target focus in the late seventies and early eighties with my super blackhawk. Who the hell said you couldn't target focus period that's the only way you're supposed to properly shoot a pistol in any tactical environment. The only time you revert to sight alignment within a site picture is when you have to provide a precise shot. The fifty yards or so i've never had a problem, after training, in making good hits.
Wait... this isn't what people do with irons?
This is how I've always used irons.
You should get this thumbnail printed
Ayup!
Ben, i was taught this method a few decades ago. It was called point shooting. Same concept. This is how your brain works under stress at bad breath distance. However, once i get to 10 yards I HAVE to close one eye and front sight focus. YMMV
That just sounds like point shooting with extra steps. 1 step to be precise. In all seriousness though, I've been trying to be target focused with my Irons while I was shooting irons. I noticed in scenario trainings though that I have reverted to staring at the front sight because "Get your hits sonny" type training. still working on not focusing on the dancing stripper on my gun. (Red dots are much more distracting lol)
I have found that point shooting really helped me be target focused. It also helped with general proprioception and finding the sights on the draw. I'm not saying to point shoot 40 yards, but use point shooting drills early in training to jumpstart some important fundamentals. My draw is basically a point shot to the sight and then use the sights as a reference.
Remember, they are forever blurry!!!!
🤘🇧🇻
People don't know how to shoot, they don't know how to think outside the box, they don't know how to trust muscle memory, they are bots reading gun rags. Love your stuff.
Will blurrrrry get us free tacos at Taco Bell?
Why not practice both techniques same time? We do not have to choose one or another. Yes target focused during steel challenge 10 inch gongs at 10 yards and front sight shooting bullseye 1.5 inch at 50 yards...
But we can practice alternating the focus while shooting and teach ourselves which method to employ depending on the accuracy needed for each shot. Eye muscles are pretty small but very fast, but we need to train moving those muscles focusing into sights and out to targets, just like training any other motor skill.
Of course if you have specialized sights for a discipline it might be harder to do one of the other method, say you have a bullseye gun with sharp smoked wide sights with tight airgap, or one of them XS sights ball on a dinner plate kind of sight picture. Otherwise with most open sights both focus methods can be trained and selected for each shot during a string