I've been in the trade for 42 years and for the last 15 years in electrical compliance and Electrical Project Management. I'm also a full member of the IET. I think your knowledge and understanding of domestic work and the 18th edition is a credit to yourself and the tutors who have trained you. I also understand you're competing against people that will under cut you time after time. I wish you the very best of luck and I'm sure you'll do well. Great video.
I'm studying level 1 installations and I've been through dozens of youtube channels to help with my learning and you are by far the best source. Keep up the good work and I can't wait to be competing against you for work 🤣
On the grommet strip - recently got a great tip from another spark I was working with. Take a bit of sheath you've stripped off a cable, split it down the edge, and use that.
I'm by no means an electrician, I'm in Canada, so we have 120v, I find what you do absolutely fascinating. It's neat to see how different your breaker boxes are (that's what we call em.. or I do anyway). Switches on plugs... a foreign concept to me!
Very thorough indeed just like in all your previous videos. It’s good to know there are tradesmen like you out there. It’s just knowing which ones they are when we need one.
Thanks for answering our simple question following a couple of C2's on recent EICR. Our sparks gave us one price to continue with the existing plastic CU or and a higher one to install metal. Your video explained that very nicely. Thankyou, enjoyable, informative watching. You guys are artists.
I enjoy your videos and you clearly love your work.👍 I do smile when I hear instructors scare stories of do this or don’t do that or you will end up in court. Yes maybe you should but how many electricians or pseudo electricians have appeared in court for negligence or non compliance with Regs? Nice move by the National Grid delegating responsibility for power surges to the consumer.😉
IMO the trouble with SPDs right now is they could fail the very next day after you install them, nothing beeps, no circuits trip or are disconnected, there is only a tiny red non illuminated flag in a small window behind the cover and as we all know homeowners don't lift the flap on the board unless something trips! Customer would never know they were not protected for years until the next inspection, and when you do see one has failed and go to buy the "cartridge" most manufactures don't actually sell the cartridge as a separate item, you have to buy the whole SPD unit again lol. Maybe they need to make something like an audible signal on fail same as when smoke detector batteries run down.
The hager mcb's have a little see through plastic window you can label each one looks nice and also wont fall off. Great video look forward to the next one!
Good videos. Bring back memories of 14 yrs of self employment. I felt for you with that N-CPC issue. Been there (numerous times) when on the tools, even with my own fresh installation - because of long-standing defects in old appliances, particularly cooking appliances and lighting control eqpt. One customer had a nightmare of tripping after the power co upgraded (actually enabled) the main earthing. Tough to explain and tough to rip up kitchen floor and raggle nice walls to replace circuit segments! Just a couple points that might make you think / bear in mind about an important distinction with responsibility / liability. You gave a bit of advice to other sparks re if not fitting a SPD - in order to protect themself from a claim in the uncommon event of a surge severe enough to damage appliances - they ought to get a record of the customer saying that they understand what a SPD is for... and they choose not to have one fitted? My understanding (though perhaps I'm interpreting regs incorrectly) is that from 2019 that would in fact do little to absolve the installer of liability - because although fitting of SPDs is advised, rather than mandated, _for compliance_ the installer would then have to produce a report justifying _in a technical sense_ why a SPD wasn't necessary, including a detailed assessment of various aspects of the incoming supply (characteristics, length, configuration in supply-side network etc), much of which would require formal queries to the power provider... and hence not fitting a SPD would not be a route that most sparks would want to go down now. - regardless of what the customer's written instructions were... Then there's the temp fix thing. Been in that position as well - many times... and yes I may have done something like temporarily put a HR (not flame resistant) flex somewhat close to a possible source of flame. Eventually though I became less pliable / far more cautious in offering 'easy' temp solutions ('temp' often ended up long term once the spark has gone) You see it doesn't matter that you advise someone to do or not to do something unusual just temporarily. In the final analysis if the safety of a piece of work hinges on (for instance) a customer not using a gas hob ring... and somehow ensuring that any/all other possible users know about and remember to comply with that; then technically, whether for 5 days, 5 months, or 5 hrs, it is not acceptably safe. And _legally_ you are not safe. All would change if things went pear shaped and lawyers or HSE or plod got involved - and what the customer said or understood or agreed with (even if you video'd their relieved agreement), would be secondary to the central issue of technical compliance, of which you are held to be the competent party - not the customer. \_(シ)_/ Take care and keep up the vids.
Artisan Electrics I’ve pulled plenty and resealed them, got some seals from eBay and crimped them with snips. the guys i did my apprenticeship with, used to cut and pull these main fuses without batting an eyelid so it was normal to me. But I’ve read so many horror stories online recently about the carriers coming away and them blowing up and what not, it’s made me think twice. I know if the board is isolated and you carry out the right procedures then there shouldn’t be an issue. How many of you out there make sure you megger the tails before you put fuse back in incase (however unlikely) live has snagged on the metal board?
I really do enjoy your videos. Reminds me of the work I did with cat 5 - the shit you saw. Incredible. As for your honesty, you can never be too honest mate. Ever. Keep up the hard work and the great vids!
Great video! I love the Hager boards, really good quality. Hager do have moulded grommets (shown on the leaflet I got in the last Hager I fitted). It’s nice that you get the grommet for the tails with it and at least they supply a bit of strip that’s way better than nothing. Great fault finding and testing demo, fair play
One problem with 18th edition boards is that you will never know if the SPD blows. A solid metal lid on the CU, how many clients will look under the lid unless the power goes off especially if the board is in the garage or under the stairs behind the Dyson.
I'm not a sparky but it's watching and learning that I find useful. Would never attempt anything that I'm not 100% sure of. But I'm trying to understand and get a little knowledge 👍👍. Thanks for video your work is very proffetional.
yeah thats something i do when i remember, what gets me is, on the MK boards there are 3 large holes in the back, yet only enough grommet strip for two is provided with a short piece left over why?
What temperature can super glue withstand? The flash point of super glue is around 80°C.. Dried superglue is fairly resistant to heat but it's strength will be reduced. Typical outdoor temperatures will pose no problems (by typical I mean up to 100-110degrees F).
Before changing any consumer unit I run IR tests on everything, won't fit one unless they all pass, or client agrees to fix faults etc. Changed a board in my earlier years only to find everything tripping with the old rubber insulation being perished. Only made that mistake once. Enjoyed the video, cheers pal.
I always recommend a prework survey before a board change consisting of a full test on the installation. Speeds up a board change no end. RCBO boards as standard.
@@ashmanelectricalservices4318 by full system test I mean an individual test on each circuit. A few hours testing agreed with customer before hand. A simple r1r2, Ir, r2. Not as full on as an eicr and doesn't take long in the grand scheme of things and helps highlight any issues. Depending on the outcome of those tests an eicr may well be required. :)
on them hager boards are you finding the Spade connections for the SPD that terminate on the load side of the main switch to be loose ? even after i terminate correctly they literally just pull straight out ? I rang up technical and they said they had a "issue" with the Spade crimps not being the correct size for the main switch Terminals. even though its Low current, I wouldn't like to leave a property knowing a connection is loose.
18th edition states that consumer units must be made of non combustible materials. It doesn't state they need to be fire proof or sealed. So long as the IP rating is maintained that is all that is required.
I have not been fitting SPD's because it is not mandatory in a domestic environment unless the requirements of the equation are met..... And yes, I mostly check rn's and r2's on my installs. :) Great video and congrats on the pass. As if you would have failed dude........ :)
I was taught on my 18th that if the price of installing an spd is higher than the price of the electronics likely to be damaged by a Serge. Sounds iffy when he told us but that was he said
DaC27 96 I’d say if the customer doesn’t think the extra £40-80 for spd isnt worth protecting their electronically equipment then note it on cert and don’t worry about it . You can’t know the total price of electronically equipment in someone’s property.
@@robswingler It's not the cost of the SPD that's the issue but the cost of the spark to come out and do it. Really needs to be a consumer replaceable item assuming one is needed at all.
Have you never tested before continuity of main equipotential bonding ? Quite an important test even before 18th. Also high ohm reading more than likely the resistance through the dimmer. Can also get accessories to fit into the huge back knockouts in Hager dbs. Other than that not bad bud
I was wondering if the folding of the conductor to have greater surface area contact under the terminal is stated in the product manufacturers literature or is an electricians tradition.
I don't think it's written down in any electrical documentation or manufacturers instruction as it's a call on the installers part. If the terminal is big enough to accommodate a wire being doubled over, then it should be, it's more of a best working practice than anything else.
I understood that all terminations in a cu for 18th edition were supposed to have mandatory ferrules fitted, as per prefitted live and neutral feeds to busbars and isolators? Not the case?
Its ok these guys that teach the regs saying you need to do x,y and z, but in the real world it's not always possible, and we do a lot of crap we shouldn't be doing anyway. With spd protection, blame the IET, if they said it must be fitted fair enough, but as usual they don't, so it won't get fitted most of the time, and in 30 years of doing this job I have come across it once on a neighbour's house and don't get me started on torque settings.
@@Cjrelectrical Cheeky bugger, really had to get my squint on to see them 😆 Keep up the good work with the vids. Remember first watching when you was running a shower supply through an airing cupboard and now you're one of the best on here for real life sparking 👍🏻
18 th edition training basically = Let's legally mug all the sparky's out there for more fooking money.......Bastards........😡 Cheers Chris , nice video.....👍
You should take a look at the Fusebox 18th rcbo spd consumer units. Its all I fit now. Technically a dual rcd board doesn't comply with reg 314.2 A single circuit failure should not affect another circuit.
R1+R2 isn't enough to prove polarity as the line and cpc could be reversed at an accessory or outlet, R1+R2 and R1+Rn prove everything is where it should be.
Great vid Chris, Just regarding the SPD stuff, with the examples given while going through the 18th edition course, i still can't see any good reason to be installing them in a domestic property. I rang the technical help line at the NIC only last week and even he couldn't tell me that "You MUST fit them". Seems like a load of scare mongering in order to sell more materials to me.
Give it a while I believe we will be fitting them more often. If you think the cost of one around £100 then think what equipment is in a house plugged in or hardwired it might shock you. Know of any gas boilers under £100
@@Cjrelectrical I understand they might be a good idea, but do we HAVE to fit them? And if I'm carrying out a EICR, do we have to start giving "Unsatisfactory" reports because they aren't installed as a consequence? Judging from what I've seen so far, I think not.
Great video Chris! Do you get the homeowner to get an asbestos check before you work on the textured coated ceilings? Ps have you seen the Brother PTE550WVP label printer, connects to a PC, prints over wi-fi and amongst many things does the labels for CU boards as one long strip
@@LAnonHubbard it's all about risk and potential. If there is a risk or potential for an asbestos to be released then appropriate working methods set out by the HSE needs to be followed. It's not about will you breathe it in, it's also about will the fibres go elsewhere in the home and need decontamination. If this is the case, any item in the property that can hold a fibre needs to be disposed of or carpets, sofas, clothing, electronics
Great video 👍 had u any issue testing those Hager A Rated RCD’S? find they read very high, I’m testing on the correct A waveform with a Megger MFT1730, acceptable readings can just about be achieved when re testing on the AC waveform
@@dommcvey1987 I had the conversation with hager technical. They've got an instructional pdf for rcd testing on their main page. Long story short, type A RCD testing should be done in manual mode and it does produce different and quicker trip times. They're still higher than AC type rcds but they at least comply.
I have been fitting Hager SPD board's since January now, you can't get much better than them. But got to say nice looking board and all those labels on it? I put mine underneath the flap it's not like anyone reads them anyway, May aswel make it look nice. Good vid bud!
Labelling giving instruction should be visible... RCD test label, Next inspection & test label etc. Everything else can be hidden underneath the cover.
@@ashmanelectricalservices4318 It will be visible when you lift the flap, which is what you would have to do if you need to do anything on the board ; )
@@serenetysteel7007 No homeowner is ever gonna lift the cover to check how frequently to test the RCD or when the next test is due, at least if it's clearly visible, half the works already done.
@@ashmanelectricalservices4318 I have met only 1 homeowner that has ever tested their RCD out of hundreds, despite an RCD test quarterly label being present in full view of the world. Likewise for commercial customers who have never tested an RCBO or RCD full full labeling being present
The torque is a great issue, the most common reason for CU fires. seen it so often. especially in the commercial word. were machines are tossed in over shut down.
@Steve Mclean surely the onus is the supply company to ensure a supply fit for purpose, if it blows your kit it's not the sparks fault, just another way to wriggle out of paying out.
You won't lose power to the house - the SPD will quietly stop protecting against spikes. The sensible option (Ha! Ha!) would be for the manufacturers to come up with a standard user-serviceable SPD module; the Sparky gets paid for the CU installation, then the householder monitors the indicator - when that shows red they pull the worn out one and replace with new. Many punters won't bother of course, but having to call an electrician to replace? Almost no one is going to do that.
@Steve Mclean it's not only lighting that causes surges the power companies have been responsible in the past, I remember a case locally when a joint in the road was wrongly connected 415 volts instead of 230v routed to houses ,lots of bangs!!
Hi Chris very interesting video with the torque screwdriver do you need to have it calibrated every 6-12 months to check they are still correct? Cheers great channel
Pulled some wire in my current house to replace older wiring for the light to switch circuits and I saw some brown/light brown/earth at the shop, which I thought was a cool idea. Ended up running triple/earth and sleeved it in the appropriate colours in case we upgrade to powered switches later down the line, though.
Re measuring resistance on a radial from neutral to cpc, if you short L & N at the far end to do R1+R2, can't you then do one insulation resistance test from L+N to cpc which will show you any leak from either conductor. Obviously if you get a fail you can remove the short and investigate whether the fault is on L or N.
Great vid again Chris , Did you perform an IR on cooker circuit ? I always test through isolator to outlet plate, if you disconnected the oven and hob then completed R1R2 and IR with isolator on (no neon so no need to link out ) that fault would have been highlighted before new CU was installed ? Keep vids coming always learning 👍
I hope you removed that twin socket for the oven and Hob when you was testing for the oven, because it could of been a faulty socket? Didn’t see it removed in any of the videos? Would be the first thing I’d of done but you didn’t mention it in your video? As I’ve sockets like that hidden away with damp problems etc causing that.
Thanks for the comment unfortunately I don’t get to fill every think otherwise my videos would be six hours Long. I did however disconnect the socket and retest to find the cable was faulty
This video now a year old. I'm sure you found the neutral earth fault by now? I'm sure that you also would have fitted an mcb lock on that faulty cooker circuit.... Presumably the board that you changed it from didn't have rcd protection on the cooker.?
Wylex make a intumescent strip which you can stick on the back of the C/U and bring the cables through a slit. It can also be stuck on the inside of the MCB flap aswell, in case one melts/combusts.
I always say the same about the grommet strip mate! I don’t get why they can’t give you a grommet or something similar to the whiska grommets to use for back entry! I always feel it’s the only thing that let Hager down really as we also fit these as standard.
I've tried tape, super glue etc, fits great till you lift it on the wall and it pops off, got to the point of leaving it and letting the mastic do the job of stopping the cables rubbing against the metal
Last year I had everything go bang and everyone on my road had the same turn out uk power network lost a neutral at the sub station luck haste sorted it all out and uk power network foot the bill. Would spds stop it happening again??
Hi! I have been watching your video really interested video and I have been learn a lots also I call myself electrician but I am not nearly up there, do you mind if I ask how many years are on this work thanks
my cousin lives in the states and they have been installing AFD devises for decades now and he says they work ok in urban areas but in areas supplied by TT systems they tend to be a pain in the a hole and they dont just reset you have to change them ...i dont yet know how ours work in that respect ?? they only really use them for lightening strikes something we dont really suffer from too much in the UK oh and those wall anchors need a setting tool they dont really like being set with the screw it puts a lot of strain on them
Hi Chris thanks for taking the time to create your videos, great channel. Could you tell me if when installing a Combi boiler if you have to have a dedicated radial from fuse board or is that only for immersion type heating? Can you still come off the ring final to a 3amp spur? Thanks for your time.
4:03 You say under the 18th edition we are now allowed to cut the seal and pull the fuse.. This is the first time I have heard this, last time I checked that was illegal without permission from DNO?
Steve I’ve never heard this either . DNO have their own rules so there’s nothing in the 18th as far as I can see . But personally I’ve never seen a seal on a main fuse so all good lol
SPDs are a nice idea that i am sure will become standard, a better upgarde in my opinion would be to make RCBOs mandatory rather than split loads which arguably don't comply due to the disruption they cause in the event of a fault and the RCD not resetting.
I was told a few years ago breaking the seal on the main fuse is ok but breaking the seal on the meter is a no no , suspicion of fiddling , this was told to me by a meter guy.Never had a problem doing this .
@@zjzozn when I had to withdraw company fuse I made sure no load was present, have seen the professionals put fuse in under load conditions quite a splash if not put in first time!
@@Cjrelectrical yeah lol that what I said but he said you need to get the dno to come out put an Isolator in and they will confirm fuse size what you reckon lol
Love hearing my fellow electricians who have just passed the 18th as they're suddenly "reborn" with all this knowledge they never knew before. :D
I've been in the trade for 42 years and for the last 15 years in electrical compliance and Electrical Project Management. I'm also a full member of the IET. I think your knowledge and understanding of domestic work and the 18th edition is a credit to yourself and the tutors who have trained you. I also understand you're competing against people that will under cut you time after time. I wish you the very best of luck and I'm sure you'll do well. Great video.
I'm studying level 1 installations and I've been through dozens of youtube channels to help with my learning and you are by far the best source. Keep up the good work and I can't wait to be competing against you for work 🤣
On the grommet strip - recently got a great tip from another spark I was working with. Take a bit of sheath you've stripped off a cable, split it down the edge, and use that.
I've been doing that for years.
Been using that like that for years
Looks rough as toast too
Super glue it on!! Plus always good to have it in your bag in case you break any of the customers household items. Shhh!!!
I'm by no means an electrician, I'm in Canada, so we have 120v, I find what you do absolutely fascinating. It's neat to see how different your breaker boxes are (that's what we call em.. or I do anyway). Switches on plugs... a foreign concept to me!
Very thorough indeed just like in all your previous videos. It’s good to know there are tradesmen like you out there. It’s just knowing which ones they are when we need one.
Thanks for answering our simple question following a couple of C2's on recent EICR. Our sparks gave us one price to continue with the existing plastic CU or and a higher one to install metal. Your video explained that very nicely. Thankyou, enjoyable, informative watching. You guys are artists.
I enjoy your videos and you clearly love your work.👍 I do smile when I hear instructors scare stories of do this or don’t do that or you will end up in court. Yes maybe you should but how many electricians or pseudo electricians have appeared in court for negligence or non compliance with Regs?
Nice move by the National Grid delegating responsibility for power surges to the consumer.😉
Love the sound your torque screwdriver makes ❤️
Never mind the sound of his torque screwdriver... When are you putting another video out? 😂😂😂
Alvin ashman 😂😂 soon been so busy and kids have been ill do not had a spare minute 👍
Sounds like an m1 garand
IMO the trouble with SPDs right now is they could fail the very next day after you install them, nothing beeps, no circuits trip or are disconnected, there is only a tiny red non illuminated flag in a small window behind the cover and as we all know homeowners don't lift the flap on the board unless something trips! Customer would never know they were not protected for years until the next inspection, and when you do see one has failed and go to buy the "cartridge" most manufactures don't actually sell the cartridge as a separate item, you have to buy the whole SPD unit again lol. Maybe they need to make something like an audible signal on fail same as when smoke detector batteries run down.
Totally agree
I liked the reference to bigclive near the beginning. He must get some interesting packages in the post every week.
The hager mcb's have a little see through plastic window you can label each one looks nice and also wont fall off. Great video look forward to the next one!
Good videos. Bring back memories of 14 yrs of self employment. I felt for you with that N-CPC issue. Been there (numerous times) when on the tools, even with my own fresh installation - because of long-standing defects in old appliances, particularly cooking appliances and lighting control eqpt. One customer had a nightmare of tripping after the power co upgraded (actually enabled) the main earthing. Tough to explain and tough to rip up kitchen floor and raggle nice walls to replace circuit segments!
Just a couple points that might make you think / bear in mind about an important distinction with responsibility / liability.
You gave a bit of advice to other sparks re if not fitting a SPD - in order to protect themself from a claim in the uncommon event of a surge severe enough to damage appliances - they ought to get a record of the customer saying that they understand what a SPD is for... and they choose not to have one fitted?
My understanding (though perhaps I'm interpreting regs incorrectly) is that from 2019 that would in fact do little to absolve the installer of liability - because although fitting of SPDs is advised, rather than mandated, _for compliance_ the installer would then have to produce a report justifying _in a technical sense_ why a SPD wasn't necessary, including a detailed assessment of various aspects of the incoming supply (characteristics, length, configuration in supply-side network etc), much of which would require formal queries to the power provider... and hence not fitting a SPD would not be a route that most sparks would want to go down now. - regardless of what the customer's written instructions were...
Then there's the temp fix thing. Been in that position as well - many times... and yes I may have done something like temporarily put a HR (not flame resistant) flex somewhat close to a possible source of flame.
Eventually though I became less pliable / far more cautious in offering 'easy' temp solutions ('temp' often ended up long term once the spark has gone) You see it doesn't matter that you advise someone to do or not to do something unusual just temporarily. In the final analysis if the safety of a piece of work hinges on (for instance) a customer not using a gas hob ring... and somehow ensuring that any/all other possible users know about and remember to comply with that; then technically, whether for 5 days, 5 months, or 5 hrs, it is not acceptably safe. And _legally_ you are not safe. All would change if things went pear shaped and lawyers or HSE or plod got involved - and what the customer said or understood or agreed with (even if you video'd their relieved agreement), would be secondary to the central issue of technical compliance, of which you are held to be the competent party - not the customer.
\_(シ)_/
Take care and keep up the vids.
When you mentioned about the rn+r2 I smiled as I always make sure I prove the neural to be intact.
Finally we can cut the seal guilt free! Do you have a tool to reseal it? Would love a recommendation.
Get one from eBay.
Artisan Electrics I’ve pulled plenty and resealed them, got some seals from eBay and crimped them with snips. the guys i did my apprenticeship with, used to cut and pull these main fuses without batting an eyelid so it was normal to me. But I’ve read so many horror stories online recently about the carriers coming away and them blowing up and what not, it’s made me think twice. I know if the board is isolated and you carry out the right procedures then there shouldn’t be an issue. How many of you out there make sure you megger the tails before you put fuse back in incase (however unlikely) live has snagged on the metal board?
Yes they are available in every tool supply store!
They go under the name Snips or Sidecutters ;0)
I really do enjoy your videos. Reminds me of the work I did with cat 5 - the shit you saw. Incredible. As for your honesty, you can never be too honest mate. Ever. Keep up the hard work and the great vids!
Great video! I love the Hager boards, really good quality. Hager do have moulded grommets (shown on the leaflet I got in the last Hager I fitted). It’s nice that you get the grommet for the tails with it and at least they supply a bit of strip that’s way better than nothing. Great fault finding and testing demo, fair play
One problem with 18th edition boards is that you will never know if the SPD blows. A solid metal lid on the CU, how many clients will look under the lid unless the power goes off especially if the board is in the garage or under the stairs behind the Dyson.
The customer will have to check it the same time as they do the six monthly RCD test 😂😂😂
Ah, is that where the Dyson is, I'll mention it to the wife.
People actually test the rcd?
I think the only people who test RCDs are sparks.
@@mowcius press the test button?
bigclive! We need a vid of all the great British electrical geeks together.
I think you're reading through the dimmer module, hence the high Ohm measurement.
I'm not a sparky but it's watching and learning that I find useful. Would never attempt anything that I'm not 100% sure of. But I'm trying to understand and get a little knowledge 👍👍. Thanks for video your work is very proffetional.
i super glue the grommet strip in about 20 mins before fitting, it helps.
Super glue could be viewed as an accelerant of not fire rated.
@@tresslerj1985 good point, but you used the word 'Could' just saying.
@@arniewheeler4673 shrodingers cat. Untill the CU catches fire and investigation happens, it is neither an Hazard nor nothing to worry about. "Could"
yeah thats something i do when i remember, what gets me is, on the MK boards there are 3 large holes in the back, yet only enough grommet strip for two is provided with a short piece left over why?
What temperature can super glue withstand?
The flash point of super glue is around 80°C.. Dried superglue is fairly resistant to heat but it's strength will be reduced. Typical outdoor temperatures will pose no problems (by typical I mean up to 100-110degrees F).
Before changing any consumer unit I run IR tests on everything, won't fit one unless they all pass, or client agrees to fix faults etc. Changed a board in my earlier years only to find everything tripping with the old rubber insulation being perished. Only made that mistake once. Enjoyed the video, cheers pal.
I always recommend a prework survey before a board change consisting of a full test on the installation. Speeds up a board change no end. RCBO boards as standard.
A lot of customers aren't willing to pay for an EICR before a consumer unit upgrade.
@@ashmanelectricalservices4318 by full system test I mean an individual test on each circuit. A few hours testing agreed with customer before hand. A simple r1r2, Ir, r2. Not as full on as an eicr and doesn't take long in the grand scheme of things and helps highlight any issues. Depending on the outcome of those tests an eicr may well be required. :)
on them hager boards are you finding the Spade connections for the SPD that terminate on the load side of the main switch to be loose ? even after i terminate correctly they literally just pull straight out ? I rang up technical and they said they had a "issue" with the Spade crimps not being the correct size for the main switch Terminals. even though its Low current, I wouldn't like to leave a property knowing a connection is loose.
18th edition states that consumer units must be made of non combustible materials. It doesn't state they need to be fire proof or sealed. So long as the IP rating is maintained that is all that is required.
Yes your correct but why not break the mould and go above and beyond.
Correct! I don't understand why people insist on sealing every hole in a consumer unit. Especially when the consumer unit has plastic MCBs and RCDs.
Fire barrier?
I can understand in this case as there is a gaping hole into a stud work wall (fire propagating) but as stated it’s not strictly needed.
bs7671 is a standard you can always go above and beyond , but all you have to acheie is ipx4 top ipx2 ipxxd min .
Love Hager boards I only fit them now!
I quite like British General, Screwfix also sell them fully loaded.
I thought the Regs required 25mm tails now. I always upgrade them.
Artisan Electrics not if main fuse is 60A. You can just about get away with an 80A if clipped direct on 16mm tails
Basically a myth, your design dictates what size your cables need to be
I have not been fitting SPD's because it is not mandatory in a domestic environment unless the requirements of the equation are met..... And yes, I mostly check rn's and r2's on my installs. :) Great video and congrats on the pass. As if you would have failed dude........ :)
I was taught on my 18th that if the price of installing an spd is higher than the price of the electronics likely to be damaged by a Serge. Sounds iffy when he told us but that was he said
DaC27 96 I’d say if the customer doesn’t think the extra £40-80 for spd isnt worth protecting their electronically equipment then note it on cert and don’t worry about it . You can’t know the total price of electronically equipment in someone’s property.
@@robswingler It's not the cost of the SPD that's the issue but the cost of the spark to come out and do it. Really needs to be a consumer replaceable item assuming one is needed at all.
Hypatiakitten I only fit one when upgrading boards
Have you never tested before continuity of main equipotential bonding ? Quite an important test even before 18th. Also high ohm reading more than likely the resistance through the dimmer. Can also get accessories to fit into the huge back knockouts in Hager dbs. Other than that not bad bud
How do you do the link? Do you do it with croc clips at the board or take the conductors out and wago them together?
Great video Chris, love the way you do take your time to explain things. Keep them coming. 👍
A nice informative video Chris. Some top tips being given out on today’s video. Cheers 🍻
Great satisfaction from knowing how to and doing a good safe job.
You said something about getting giving that fuse board to someone. It would be great if I could have it for my students at college for an example
Enjoyed watching that mate. Good couple of points. Keep up the good work 👍
I was wondering if the folding of the conductor to have greater surface area contact under the terminal is stated in the product manufacturers literature or is an electricians tradition.
I don't think it's written down in any electrical documentation or manufacturers instruction as it's a call on the installers part. If the terminal is big enough to accommodate a wire being doubled over, then it should be, it's more of a best working practice than anything else.
This has been your best video
Running over thermal insulation in the loft, would that not require a 16mm T&E??
I understood that all terminations in a cu for 18th edition were supposed to have mandatory ferrules fitted, as per prefitted live and neutral feeds to busbars and isolators? Not the case?
the king is back
Its ok these guys that teach the regs saying you need to do x,y and z, but in the real world it's not always possible, and we do a lot of crap we shouldn't be doing anyway. With spd protection, blame the IET, if they said it must be fitted fair enough, but as usual they don't, so it won't get fitted most of the time, and in 30 years of doing this job I have come across it once on a neighbour's house and don't get me started on torque settings.
Talking about regs all vid but did I see some test leads not conforming to GS38 🤔 7:35
Transparent test tips
@@Cjrelectrical
Cheeky bugger, really had to get my squint on to see them 😆 Keep up the good work with the vids. Remember first watching when you was running a shower supply through an airing cupboard and now you're one of the best on here for real life sparking 👍🏻
I enjoy the vids, thanks for taking the time :)
I thought you did a test before you replaced the consumer unit. Why wasn't the earth neutral fault found then?
That's a good question. Maybe the cooker switch was off during the IR test, so the fault was disconnected from the circuit.
I use industrial glue from CEF when fitting the grommit strip, that way it doesn’t slip off....
18 th edition training basically = Let's legally mug all the sparky's out there for more fooking money.......Bastards........😡
Cheers Chris , nice video.....👍
Cant you lot claim it on your tax return?
Always find your videos interesting bud 👍🏼
Was always told to leave a bit of spare on cables as if you fit it right and and breaks then what do you do
You should take a look at the Fusebox 18th rcbo spd consumer units. Its all I fit now. Technically a dual rcd board doesn't comply with reg
314.2 A single circuit failure should not affect another circuit.
R1+R2 isn't enough to prove polarity as the line and cpc could be reversed at an accessory or outlet, R1+R2 and R1+Rn prove everything is where it should be.
Typo chap on your labelling - “intumescent” @23:20 😊 cheers for the vid!
18th Edition test obviously doesn't cover speeling :-)
You can buy these for Hager boards VM02CE, the last board I did came with only one.
Grrreat job as ALWAYS! Keep'm coming bro! Cheers from Canada eh
Just a quick one
How is 0.33 ohms higher resistance than of 0.55 ohms?
Great vid Chris,
Just regarding the SPD stuff, with the examples given while going through the 18th edition course, i still can't see any good reason to be installing them in a domestic property.
I rang the technical help line at the NIC only last week and even he couldn't tell me that "You MUST fit them". Seems like a load of scare mongering in order to sell more materials to me.
Give it a while I believe we will be fitting them more often.
If you think the cost of one around £100 then think what equipment is in a house plugged in or hardwired it might shock you. Know of any gas boilers under £100
@@Cjrelectrical
I understand they might be a good idea, but do we HAVE to fit them?
And if I'm carrying out a EICR, do we have to start giving "Unsatisfactory" reports because they aren't installed as a consequence? Judging from what I've seen so far, I think not.
Great video Chris! Do you get the homeowner to get an asbestos check before you work on the textured coated ceilings?
Ps have you seen the Brother PTE550WVP label printer, connects to a PC, prints over wi-fi and amongst many things does the labels for CU boards as one long strip
Michael Beckett good question that ! often wonder that myself regarding asbestos within households , artex coatings etc .
Is that necessary as little to no dust was generated?
@@LAnonHubbard it's all about risk and potential. If there is a risk or potential for an asbestos to be released then appropriate working methods set out by the HSE needs to be followed. It's not about will you breathe it in, it's also about will the fibres go elsewhere in the home and need decontamination. If this is the case, any item in the property that can hold a fibre needs to be disposed of or carpets, sofas, clothing, electronics
If the groumet is coming off on the fusebox, I always put glue onto the groumet and it's magic... Never comes off.
Great video 👍 had u any issue testing those Hager A Rated RCD’S? find they read very high, I’m testing on the correct A waveform with a Megger MFT1730, acceptable readings can just about be achieved when re testing on the AC waveform
Yes your correct higher readings than AC form
Had the same, saw a YT by e5 talking to Hager about this
Repeat the testing in manual mode, not auto. Thank me later ;)
Cheers will give that a try, any reason why manual mode would give a more favourable reading?
@@dommcvey1987 I had the conversation with hager technical. They've got an instructional pdf for rcd testing on their main page. Long story short, type A RCD testing should be done in manual mode and it does produce different and quicker trip times. They're still higher than AC type rcds but they at least comply.
I have been fitting Hager SPD board's since January now, you can't get much better than them. But got to say nice looking board and all those labels on it? I put mine underneath the flap it's not like anyone reads them anyway, May aswel make it look nice. Good vid bud!
Labelling giving instruction should be visible... RCD test label, Next inspection & test label etc. Everything else can be hidden underneath the cover.
@@ashmanelectricalservices4318 It will be visible when you lift the flap, which is what you would have to do if you need to do anything on the board ; )
@@serenetysteel7007 No homeowner is ever gonna lift the cover to check how frequently to test the RCD or when the next test is due, at least if it's clearly visible, half the works already done.
@@ashmanelectricalservices4318 I have met only 1 homeowner that has ever tested their RCD out of hundreds, despite an RCD test quarterly label being present in full view of the world. Likewise for commercial customers who have never tested an RCBO or RCD full full labeling being present
Plus you have to lift the lid to check the RCD!
Im an 3rd year apprentice and i fitted a SPD 18th edition Hager board, i personally prefer hager boards and Schneider boards.
Nice one Chris. Keep em coming.
Nice job mate, just wonder why cooker didn’t trip rcd on existing board if there was a n/e fault ?
No rcd
The torque is a great issue, the most common reason for CU fires. seen it so often. especially in the commercial word. were machines are tossed in over shut down.
Interesting I have never tested N-R2 before, I guess now with AFDDs that is a good idea.
If you're reading this comment in 2030+ please let me know if almost every house has a CU with an expired and ignored SPD ;)
@Steve Mclean surely the onus is the supply company to ensure a supply fit for purpose, if it blows your kit it's not the sparks fault, just another way to wriggle out of paying out.
You won't lose power to the house - the SPD will quietly stop protecting against spikes. The sensible option (Ha! Ha!) would be for the manufacturers to come up with a standard user-serviceable SPD module; the Sparky gets paid for the CU installation, then the householder monitors the indicator - when that shows red they pull the worn out one and replace with new. Many punters won't bother of course, but having to call an electrician to replace? Almost no one is going to do that.
18th amendment 1 2019 another label "Check SPD quarterly", 18th amendment 2 2020 " check SPD every 6 months" sigh :(
Steve Mclean That’s the problem, they only work once and no one will ever check them. Has there been a lot of problems with surges in the uk?
@Steve Mclean it's not only lighting that causes surges the power companies have been responsible in the past, I remember a case locally when a joint in the road was wrongly connected 415 volts instead of 230v routed to houses ,lots of bangs!!
GN3 said PEB's should read 0.05 Ohm max. Dunno if that still applies to 18th.
Sdp up to the client if he wants it which reg states that you most fit it ?
The wiring type should have been listed as "A" on the circuit detail chart as it was T&E (PVC/PVC).
plugs on hob and cooker no 1/2 insulation on L & N did you change them ?
its about time your back on and i wod like that old consumer unit lol
Beware live vs line, or did you mean live conductors?
You didn't add flylead earth in PE terminal of SPD to the earth bar in the board.
Hi Chris very interesting video with the torque screwdriver do you need to have it calibrated every 6-12 months to check they are still correct? Cheers great channel
Why all of a sudden should voltage spikes be a thing?
Nice video, but hope you didn't reuse that unsleeved plug for the oven? PS also recently passed my 18th too.
Pulled some wire in my current house to replace older wiring for the light to switch circuits and I saw some brown/light brown/earth at the shop, which I thought was a cool idea. Ended up running triple/earth and sleeved it in the appropriate colours in case we upgrade to powered switches later down the line, though.
Who does the best teardown... John Ward or Big Clive???
Top Sparks great job.. showing it how it really is
Re measuring resistance on a radial from neutral to cpc, if you short L & N at the far end to do R1+R2, can't you then do one insulation resistance test from L+N to cpc which will show you any leak from either conductor. Obviously if you get a fail you can remove the short and investigate whether the fault is on L or N.
Yes I’ve just purchased a piggy back lead to carry out such test.
Great vid again Chris ,
Did you perform an IR on cooker circuit ? I always test through isolator to outlet plate, if you disconnected the oven and hob then completed R1R2 and IR with isolator on (no neon so no need to link out ) that fault would have been highlighted before new CU was installed ?
Keep vids coming always learning 👍
Ryan Mckenna I can't help thinking that it was just the 2 gang outlet that was faulty.
You’d presume the cable between isolator and outlet would be disconnected both ends and IR performed between cores.....well I did 😁
I hope you removed that twin socket for the oven and Hob when you was testing for the oven, because it could of been a faulty socket? Didn’t see it removed in any of the videos? Would be the first thing I’d of done but you didn’t mention it in your video? As I’ve sockets like that hidden away with damp problems etc causing that.
Thanks for the comment unfortunately I don’t get to fill every think otherwise my videos would be six hours Long. I did however disconnect the socket and retest to find the cable was faulty
above and beyond, exactly what i stated a while back, no harm in it, be proud of your finished installation....
This video now a year old. I'm sure you found the neutral earth fault by now? I'm sure that you also would have fitted an mcb lock on that faulty cooker circuit.... Presumably the board that you changed it from didn't have rcd protection on the cooker.?
Wylex make a intumescent strip which you can stick on the back of the C/U and bring the cables through a slit. It can also be stuck on the inside of the MCB flap aswell, in case one melts/combusts.
Is that mastic now a reg….
Are spd not just a recommended device not compulsory?
I always say the same about the grommet strip mate! I don’t get why they can’t give you a grommet or something similar to the whiska grommets to use for back entry! I always feel it’s the only thing that let Hager down really as we also fit these as standard.
I've tried tape, super glue etc, fits great till you lift it on the wall and it pops off, got to the point of leaving it and letting the mastic do the job of stopping the cables rubbing against the metal
Last year I had everything go bang and everyone on my road had the same turn out uk power network lost a neutral at the sub station luck haste sorted it all out and uk power network foot the bill. Would spds stop it happening again??
Nope.. SPD's arrest over voltage surges in the supply, not detect missing neutrals.
Hi! I have been watching your video really interested video and I have been learn a lots also I call myself electrician but I am not nearly up there, do you mind if I ask how many years are on this work thanks
Is that fire mastic easy to remove if you needed to pull another cable through in the future?
Yeah just push a driver through or stripped cable
@@Cjrelectrical Great! Thanks for the reply
my cousin lives in the states and they have been installing AFD devises for decades now and he says they work ok in urban areas but in areas supplied by TT systems they tend to be a pain in the a hole and they dont just reset you have to change them ...i dont yet know how ours work in that respect ?? they only really use them for lightening strikes something we dont really suffer from too much in the UK
oh and those wall anchors need a setting tool they dont really like being set with the screw it puts a lot of strain on them
Firsteerr Lastmwwew don’t you mean spd? Afd is for loose connections which creates an arc
Hi Chris thanks for taking the time to create your videos, great channel. Could you tell me if when installing a Combi boiler if you have to have a dedicated radial from fuse board or is that only for immersion type heating? Can you still come off the ring final to a 3amp spur? Thanks for your time.
Yes perfectly acceptable but remember any problem on the circuit you will loose the boiler too.
CJR ELECTRICAL thanks Chris
Sorry so is it best practice to run a separate radial?
4:03 You say under the 18th edition we are now allowed to cut the seal and pull the fuse.. This is the first time I have heard this, last time I checked that was illegal without permission from DNO?
First I've heard of this also, I'll have to double check with UK Power Networks.
Steve I’ve never heard this either . DNO have their own rules so there’s nothing in the 18th as far as I can see . But personally I’ve never seen a seal on a main fuse so all good lol
@@robswingler Those darn seal fairies 😉
Once again... nice one Chris. 👍🏻
congratulations!! Great video Chris.
Where does it say in the 18th edition that you can pull th main fuse? Can you give me a reg number?
SPDs are a nice idea that i am sure will become standard, a better upgarde in my opinion would be to make RCBOs mandatory rather than split loads which arguably don't comply due to the disruption they cause in the event of a fault and the RCD not resetting.
I was told a few years ago breaking the seal on the main fuse is ok but breaking the seal on the meter is a no no , suspicion of fiddling , this was told to me by a meter guy.Never had a problem doing this .
Ray Chambers you need the right safety gear.... best not to do it
@@zjzozn when I had to withdraw company fuse I made sure no load was present, have seen the professionals put fuse in under load conditions quite a splash if not put in first time!
Quick question for you, what size cable would you use as a bond on 16mm SWA
Hi mate did they give you any info saying we are allowed to cut seals to check fuse size I just had a assessor saying we are not allowed
Haha funny that I was told that the seals are always cut aren’t they.
@@Cjrelectrical yeah lol that what I said but he said you need to get the dno to come out put an Isolator in and they will confirm fuse size what you reckon lol
Have you ever fitted one of them isolators your self seem pretty cheap from toolstation
greg davies yes I try to now on every board change.
@@Cjrelectrical do you use any particular make are some better than others