Correction: you witnessed your second Omen in Stormveil. Margit is an Omen as well. Personally, I wish Rogier had some dialogue when you encounter him in Stormveil Chapel where he talks about how unusual Margit's presence is, how Omens don't usually have their horns uncut and how Margit doesn't seem to be coordinated with the rest of Godrick's men at all. Morgott's reveal during his boss fight was something I feel the game should have tried to build up a bit.
characters explicitly explaining plot never makes a story better, elden rings story shows instead of tells which is what makes it so great and is why videos like this even exist.
There’s a cut quest with an NPC named “Lord Shanehaight” who you’d meet in Leyndell, and he would talk about the Omen making noise in the sewers. You would likely meet him again before approaching Morgott, where he’d have dialogue expressing his distress at the realization that the Lord of Leyndell is an Omen. He might have even been intended to be summonable, but that’s more speculative.
@@Dekuzek , it may be kind off topic are what do you think of this theory of mine ? finlay betrayed Malenia upon taking her to the haligtree after jerren started making highly innacurate fanart of her and malenia and sending it to everyone in the lands between so as to destroy malenias image. That was not before finlay was borrowing mohgs ass cheeks and rannis hair strand to do a roast battle with bernhal, vagram, Gideon, Alexander alongside ansbach, varre, lannseax until midra was paid by patches to transform into a frenzy powered armored core. To witness the destruction, patches invited master Wilhelm, Sekiro to try out the device but Sekiro died of shock and wilheim t posed, ascending into the skies and meeting goldmask After the battle of aeonia, castellan of redmane castle jerren swore revenge against Malenia for driving his master Radahn insane. The heavily injured Jerren who was about to pass out watched as finlay carried Malenia out of caelid, cursing them but was helpless given finlay was ranni extremely fast. However He had a plan to destroy malenias image. He paid his former enemy Seluvis. The plan was to have Seluvis, a master of lore inaccurate fanartd draw highly lore.. inaccurate fanart of malenia and finlay which would make Malenia seem like a massive piece of shit that is only good for reproduction. Also the fanart would depict vleanrot knights looking human which is something miquella has denied since the formation of the haligtree. To depict finlay a cleanort knight looking human would just give the message that miquella is a liar and his age is a scam. Jerren hired patcehs to introduce tech so jerren could cancel Malenia online. Finlay on the way to the haligtree was kicked by patches who promised 100000000 runes to participate in a roast tournament. Finlay was loyal to Malenia but money was more important to her. Finlay with 100000000 Trina lilies from patches gave them to the unconscious Malenia to make her stay unconscious for 24h. Finlay to do the roast battle proceeded to borrow mohgs ass cheeks which mog regenerated and rannis hair which she used to make a machine gun with some of malenias skin(numen skin can graft stuff). The roast battle involved bernhal, vagram, Gideon, Alexander alongside ansbach varre, lannseax. Finlay won it after 13 hours. Patches reveals the entire roast tournament is a scam and he won't be rewarding the winner. Patches pays midra to transform onto a frenzy powered armoured core Which he uses to destroy all of limgrave. This happened because Jerren paid patches 3478494 trillion runes. Patches had Wilhelm and Sekiro shows up to try out the device and witness the destruction. Sekiro was the shocked to death by a lighting which struck him. Master Wilhelm used mods to ascend into the skies but he met goldmask and they both t posed. Patches within 4 hours distributed technology and internet to the entire lands between. Finlay returned Malenia to the haligtree. By the time she returned she realised that everyone had a lore innacurate view of her and malenia. Thinking Malenia was behind this (finlay is dumb) finlay killed malenia but not before gwyndolin shot her to death using a missile launcher. Bernhal who had used the zip glitch and ended up in the haligtree questioned why gwyndolin is here if Aldrich ate him in DS3. Patches explains that time is convoluted in the lands between. MichAl zaki shows up and beats patches to death. Patches is not surprised given the entire situation was caused by his timeline alterations. Patches lets Michael kills him. Michael undoes the events of this entire parody and patches awakes in murkwater cave in the present like nothing happened. many years ago, finlay took Malenia to the haligtree. Patches time travelled and showed up and claimed that malenia made lore.innacurate fanart of malenia and finlay. This angered finlay who decided to betray malenia. This time instead of killing Malena, malenia awoke as finlay stabbed jer she did not receive the large dosage Trina lilies who caused her to be unconscious for 24h in the erased events. Malenia killed finlay, Finlay's dying words saying that malenia will pay for that terrible faner and asked morgott to do something about it because she thought she paid morgott to protect her(she didn't she halluctanted it because she drank some of the godrick brand orange juice on the way to the haligtree). Malenia asked morgott to explain this and morgott asked hewg to do some spirit tuning on finlayz Turing finlay into a spirit summon. Please do share this theory, I want the entire fandom to hear this! Also you can find more theories on my community post!
As a natural skeptic... I take what I like from lore videos and apply them to how I view elden ring..... I have never seen such sensible but unique takes. The perspectives you have offered have been crucial to my own view of the world of elden ring.... Thank you
After much thought I might have an answer to the order of events.... Maybe... I'll tell it as a story in broad strokes. A long time ago, there was a tree, well a crucible to be exact, life, power and blessings sprung forth from the crucible, the foremost of the people that worshiped the crucible were the crucible knights. Honorable and pure, they formed a belief system centered around what was most holy to them. The leader of this vaunted order of knights was there leader Godfrey (I know he doesn't take that name tell later I'm trying to make this straight forward tho) Godfrey in the eyes of his own people was second only to there god and consort. Such a renown knight of the realm must by necessity have a wife of equal status, it's really hard to tell by how the shaman are treated but they are considered holy by the hornsent, able to fuse there life essence with others, its very close to what the crucible does. Marika is chosen and marries the foremost knight of the realm.... Sadly, on there honeymoon (it's more thematic this way) they stumble across Bonnie village... Neither of them are aware of what transpires in the goal.... But they find out..... In horror and disgust for how could life be the most sacred thing to them and yet do this to marika's people, they go to a nearby church and start talking..... In secret they declare them self king and queen of a new order, an order that will never let such horror happen again, the rest writes it self pretty much. It could be that after discovering boony goal they rush to marika's home town and to save her family her friends only to find nothing.... What Marika asks for on her last visit to shaman village depends on where you want to place the forming of the plan to become a god and overthrow the crucible... Could use some refinement but that's how I see it with what I know
About the connection spirits-horns, in this universe seems Horns are something that connect the creatures with the spirits and possibly some gods. Horned Omens, and only Horned ones under Leyndell, are capable to shoot fire and call little vengeful spirits (The little yellow-brown flames) Torrent and Ancestral Creature became literally beings of spirit, and in the end of the dlc who calls Miquella through the gate? Radanh with the body of Mohg, an OMEN, with HORNS. (I also noticed, Commander Niall at Sol Castle calls spirits... and his armor has horns on it.) Possibly because Crucible is a thing of Life and Death and Life from Death, and horns rappresent this more than wings or tails.
One thing i believe is worthy of note is how the divine beings the Horsent invoke seem to originate in something different from Crucible, albeit closely related to it. The impression i got is that the Crucible itself seems to act like a conduit to reach out to something else. It reminds me of how the player needs to offer some life energy (Crimson Flask) for a spirit (Torrent) to be able to take root on the physical world.
I think much like we see in the incantations, the Crucible has many facets. It appears in physical traits but also in things like storms, lighting, frost and the direct harnessed power seen with the Hornsent. I think they all originate from the same base power but are manifested in different ways. As you mention with Torrent, I think it is likely that physical existences & spirits are 100% a result of the Crucible.
I think I’d like to consider the possibility that Marika is actually a saint, that is to say, the end result of a Jar ritual, and so she harbors a visceral disdain for the hornsent and a desire to forget about them and end the crucible rituals. I personally think that the red junk Marika is standing in for the trailer is the innards of her jar, and that the crucible in that spot is a sort of metaphorical furnace that forges a god, wherein the Elden Beast is a type of Ancestral Spirit born through Marika’s ascension… somehow. That’s the feeling I get from all this. Its possible that only a saint can become a God, and that the process requires dropping off “body parts”, which is to say, shriving the imperfect flesh of the other people, making room for the communion to take place. This flesh, when separated from the main host, could take the form of a less powerful being under uncertain circumstances. In this way, Marika may have shed Radagon before ever becoming a god, in much the same way Miquella shed saint Trina before his ascension to godhood. Is it a mere coincidence that Trina is a “saint”, or could that title be hinting at the Jar saints? Who can say… Of note, Miquella and Malenia both shed whole people in order to ascend closer to godhood. Perhaps communion with the Rot god has been taking place since Malenia’s birth, and with each flowering she becomes a better vessal for it, shedding her buds in the form of millicent and her many sisters… yet in the case of Miquella, perhaps he was a saint born prematurely from a small jar, and thus his permanent childlike stature? Obviously he is no less powerful for it due to his… persuasive skill set. It could be that the womb in general is a sort of crucible, which is why the Omen occur… yet, I think morgot and mohg are not the same as emperians, and cannot commune with a god (or the crucible), since they were not saints, nor even capable of being made into saints due to their horns. I also think the sight of horns elicits a disgust in Marika due to her own beginnings, so she hides the omen the same way she had hidden the shadow lands. Lastly, i think the fire of blasphemy, and the blasphemous serpent, are somehow part of the situation. Where a god is (hypothetically) made by shedding the unnecessary parts and communing with the crucible/greater will or some other being, the blasphemous serpent seems to devour incessantly to become stronger. Perhaps the blasphemous serpent itself is attempting to serve as the jar, and by eating strong warriors it seeks to become a “saint” type, or a being on the level of an emperian. Messmer could be a similar creature, or was deceived by them, much like Rykard. I know this is all sorta incoherent and I apologize for how disorganized it is… watching your video just kinda instantly brought this all to mind so I started typing lol. Its just my theory in the moment, but maybe it has legs enough for somebody of your caliber to put the pieces together, if it even passes muster. Bless!
major theme of ER is having strong opinions / believes about things you have only partial understanding, cults and civilizations sprouting from misunderstanding and the lack of info. It seems to me that hornsent were worshipping the crucible energy but didn't know about the elden ring: there is no iconography or any mentions that suggest they would be aware of it. Why? because it was removed from their sights : it was the age of dragon lords, possibly even lacking a god who fled. that is why they're obsessed with creating saints and reaching heavens, echoing Babel's story. Divine powers and rules defining the world were not near their reach. It changes when Marika becomes a god and a vessel of elden ring. No one now needs to reach for the divine, because it is right there, a tree visible from everywhere, and a human and a mother bestowing blessings.
A significant part of world-building is related to souls, births and deaths. Thanks to stone coffins at Cerulean Coast, we know that a proper handling of these matters is necessary, and every ancient culture had to deal with it somehow. But everything has changed when Marika's ascended to godhood, and the Erdtree was created. Now, "Erdtree governs all" is the leading doctrine, and Erdtree burial has replaced almost all other burial rights (Ancestral Followers were isolated in Nokron, so they weren't affected). But it's not only about the dead - Erdtree also was able to produce new lives. It embodies both sides of the cycle of life. That's one clue what the Crucible is. Another clue comes from Rauh, who learned to use spirits to control the flow of water. The water was a trivial case: it took only a simple spirit and a hollow rock. Later the spirit technology was advanced to control a flow of molten rock, and applied to animate Golems. So there's an underlying principle there. Flows and currents can be controlled by specific kinds of spirits put into a fitting vessel. If we follow this line of reasoning, the Crucible is the primal, untamed loop the souls follow. And the Crucible is shaped like a double spiral - one branch goes "up", another returns "down". But this complicated cycle of life is just a flow of souls. And flows can be controlled with spirits. Since the cycle is really complicated, it requires a very powerful spirits to control it - which, in turn, implies the need for a potent vessel, that fits for the task, and which is physically able to contain this super-spirit (also known as Elden Ring). The combination of vessel and spirit capable to control a cycle of life (the Crucible) is called a God. And the God's primary function is ecological. Not religious or political.
Something I've noticed i haven't seen anyone else mention, there's a "Talisman of _All Crucibles_ " referring to the crucible in the plural as well as six distinctly mentioned "aspects". Further the cut item Miranda's Prayer explicitly refers to a "Flower Crucible", lining up nicely with the "bloom" aspect. All this suggests to me that at least at some point, the crucible was presented or perceived in the plural, not as a singular entity or concept. There also just happens to be six divine towers, which may or may not be relevant 🤔
Personally I always took the 'all crucibles' to just mean the multiple crucible aspects rather than multiple crucibles. As for the Divine Towers it's hard to say. There are ties to the Fell God/Giants and the Astrologers, but I haven't found any direct connection to anything crucible related so far.
One thing to note is that the crucible is related to storms Placidusax was the elden lord of the ancient crucible era, he seems to have the power of the storm, whe know that the beasts(which are very close to the dragons) are also related to the storm(the stormhawk in the base game) The red lightning(red is closer to life thus is fitting that the ancient dragons which are probably the first lifeforms and closest to the crucible), the wind that stormveil uses,the golden lightining are all related because they are the power of the crucible but in different forms
This is a great observation. I just realized that in many cases storms, particularly Farum Azula's storm beyond time, are also in the shape of spirals, a normalized crucible current that reaches into the heavens.
100%. Reflecting, I think I should have mentioned it outright in the video that I think the Crucible is all forms of Nature (Life, weather, etc) Which is why it has such strong ties to storms, lightning and frost along with life itself.
Since this a good crucible video, showcasing pretty much all its mentions, I've got to mention a couple really important things to point to- -- the crucible heavily borrows from the flame of chaos in ds1 and ds3s profraned flame even moreso. Even the fingers borrow heavily from ds3 and ds1. --while the greattree is mentioned, it could simply be the scadutree. The scadutree does not have an explained birth like the erdtree does, and pre history, the people responsible for building catacombs, are heavily explored in the DLC, and renamed. For example the hornsent are obviously retconned ancestral followers. The storm lord retconned into a lion, from a bird. Theres no reason to think the greattree isnt an example of this -- the crucibles power, the normalized current, much like grace, clearly mutates people, as well as birthed all golem/stone-hybrid lifeforms. Misbegotten were in contact and cursed by it, demi-human, bat ladys, and worm faced monsters all curse, cry, and pray for their curse, and blame it on marika-(implying the shattering mutated them, in a wrath of the gods situation), while the omen curse rune mirrors and explains the rest of the curse/blessing lore(a curse when accepted and normal, is a blessing) The crucible is represented most, physically, on crucible knight armor and weapons. Armor, shields, and weapons will often have a large blood gem(primordial red tinged gold), with vein like imagery spreading out from the gem. Combine that with GRRMs game of thrones lore, with weirwood trees being very similar in nature, and the divine gate of punishment(one of its japanese names)/purifying chamber being an allusion to crags from ds3- and we get an even heavier picture of evil gods found through sacrifice. (Though the theme is absolutely moreso war, and conflict, rather than sacrifice, the divine gate is meant to represent a barbed wire barb for instance,and crucible knights are seen as chaotic[war,fire,evolution-is the symbolism] and even the concept of colloseum combat was the one tradition allowed to stay throughout the orders of ages)
About the Scadutree, I do think that it is the Great tree and the original form of the Erdtree prior to the Golden replacement. My theory is that the Shadow Realm is in stasis (similar to Farum) and that it was sealed before the Lands Between Erdtree was burned. So the Scadutree still stands as it did when sealed.
I thought it was interesting that crucible incantations tend to have gold and holy damage properties, shows to me that they both originated in similar energies of sorts.
I think the scadu tree is a giant sunflower starting to wilt, with the lands between as the sun realm, losing its foundation. Also the sprigs on a lot of murals are, for sure, baby sunflowers. I take it as the scadutree is the flower crucible, and its so big that it pushes the shadow realm downwards as it grew. The minor erdtree church has a four ringed elden ring engraving on the ground, with pots around it. The erdtree might have been grown in a pot, with the depiction at farum azula showing it in a stage of growth, if you look at the ground around maliketh, you can see the same mural as the one with gold, and it looks more like half of it is underground, spreading its roots. This would mean the farum azula depiction is after the minor erdtrees engravings depiction, growing out of its pot. This would also mean, while the erdtree was young, dragons were the ones defending it, perhaps against the Giants. The giant dragon in leyndell is protecting the lower area with the shadow of its wing, where you can find a church that has regrowing flowers on their metal windows. This was a culture within the capitol that worship flowers, that the erdtree replaced. You can also see a statue of someone holding a single flower and catering to it while the others wilt and try and grow up the person standing on them. I think the old culture was accepting of the death of their flowers, knowing they regrow. With the erdtree instead being chosen to grow forever at the expense of this older culture. The confusing part to me is Radagon vs Marika, I don't think the golden order and erdtree faithful are the same team. I think Radagon is the head of the Golden Order, and Marika is the head of the Tarnished or Erdtree Faithful. I know they are the same person, but Radagon has different laws with the Colloseum, which is closer in culture to the Radahn festival and the blooming of flowers. It could be that Radagon is a part of her that does not want to die, while Marika would have the tarnished end it and restart. Its also interesting that in seluria's tree spear, the erdtree is mentioned to be based on its crucible. I don't see why I shouldn't consider this as saying, at the end of of one tree, came another. Something I also think of, is if Messmer purged the hornsent because he felt abandoned, there's a hornsent spirit that says something about Messmer still holding resentment
after thinking about it, the erdtree already blossomed, it already spread its seeds around like a sunflower, and I think its symbolic to the sun falling along with Godwyn
I think the crucible is the dead bodies piled up together. The aspects are probably the result of using certain creatures with those traits. The tree seems to be a catalyst or a way to gather and collect the energy from the bodies. The euporia can't get energy from reanimated bodies because the energy is gone. Burning the tree the first time cleared the crucible, erd tree burial was controlled and limited. It seems to fit with the underground cities and farum azula as well. The bodies were used to focus life energy into whatever they were working on. Crucibles by other names. The rune of death being removed meant no new crucibles could be made. It makes me think creatures are created instead of being born.
But what about the fell god being the original horned being from the furnace visage? Is the fell god itself the crusible's vassel? Like how the elden beast is the greater will's?
Hear me out: I still think the scadutree is the original form of the crucible, it is said that the scadutree is the shadow of the erdtree giving most people the idea they are 2 sides of one coin, but shadow can be used to describe the former form or state of something aswell as in "the shadow of your past is haunting you" to give one example. so what i think happened here is miyazaki used a clever wordplay to hide the obvious, which is that the scadutree or rather the life energy of the scadutree shown as golden liquid like energy was used to nurture the erdtree giving it it's golden color and connection. we have to keep in mind the greater will and it's gold was already in use with placidusax and his god who is the serpent that marika slayed at the gate of divinity causing placidusax to think it fled and abandoned him. this makes the crucible the greater wills first attempt on a world order and after marika took the serpent gods golden strings (godly dna if you will) she forcefully made herself a god with help of the strings and the divine gate, elden ring leans heavily into race and DNA making the strings a perfect fit to be basically godly DNA. Now this is where i'm reaching alot and i understand it sounds unlikely but here goes: after all this happened marika planted a minor erdtree incantation (she put one in her home village right after ascending) at where leyndell is now and drained the scadutree of it's energy to nurture what will later become the great erdtree, that's also why the scadutree looks so unhealthy, it's been stripped off most of it's energy. what made me think that is that the minor erdtree is a tree made purely out of gold and the erdtree is exactly that in bigger, so what's logically the one and only thing that could nurture a thing like that? exactly the raw energy sapped from the scadutree. and with that did marika not only strip future hornsent of their horns, but using it's power to birth her own order, this also neatly ties in as to why some beings are still making contact with the crucible, because it's not gone but part of the erdtree now it's energy scource so the misbegotten are nothing more than unlucky accident caused by a error of the erdtree that happens from time to time. thanks alot for whoever read this, i hope it makes sense.
Hornsents seems have a bad treatment for Not-Horned creatures. And, just to be very clear, Hornsents are still humans, just they have horns on their head, and if horns are a thing of Superiority, then no horns? You're inferior. Japanese about the clan of people that became the Bloodfiends, says they were a clan of Slaves. Even because we find in the tower inquisitors, fat inquisitors and high priests have DAMN big horns. Marika, Shamans (Imiko in japanese, a caste of ancient japanese maidens who are close to spirit world, only women) and seems Midra were a special kind of no-horned people, maybe all of them for the same reason of be numen. Also, about Godfrey and Hornsents, there is a clear connection between Godfrey and Crucible, but i don't think he cares a lot about it. There is a theory he's one of those who hunts the bears. Possibly Marika just used him, Crucible Knight and Hornsents for her goals and when they were not important anymore zac, exiled and purged. P.P.S: In the cut content the Euphoria was connected to Miquella, not the Hornsents (From here the power not very good with Those who live in death, something Miquella hates.)
"And in the Shadow Keep we found that Messmer is Marika's son" *Literally everyone knew it from the first day from the Trailer and even Miyazaki said it in an interview*
I actually was of the theory that she was already queen before ascending to godhood, because of the location of the shadow, keep along with the hinterland's I believe that was originally her palace, but after marrying into the royal family of the hornsent she went to Enir illim
I like this! I've definitely changed my opinion on the timeline a few times. It's really hard to nail down a definitive series of events. Big fan of the OSRS prof pic too!
Two things I want to add to your ideas that may be relevant: 1. The Divine Bird Feathers incantation mentions, "The divine bird warriors, and indeed this technique, are said to bear resemblance to the golden Crucible." 2. Many depictions of the Crucible are of a spiral around a vertical structure. Personally, I think the Scadutree and Erdtree were once one and known as the Crucible. When the Shadowlands was displaced from the Lands Between, the spiral no longer had the brace of the erdtree to wrap around and is why the scadutree is now twisting into its own self destruction. Considering both of these points... I have no idea and have been stumped for months on how it could be relevant to the lore. It seems important though.
Marika wished for eternal life for her family, who would go on to be regarded as the Shamans. This eternal nature would attract others who sought the Shamans life for their own. They would torment and butcher the shamans, trying to imbue themselves with the Shamans gift. Marika witnessed the blessing upon her people become a curse.
I feel like the crucible is like the lifestream from Final Fantasy VII and I can see that as being the inspiration for it since it is the life coursing through the planet, it is very spirally and it is spiritual energy. And after the meteor impact in FF7 those infected with the geostigma are considered impure which I think parallels the misbegotten/omen.
Dunno what you mean, I think I'm subscribed to all the lore channels (lol) and I find it's generally a good vibe with ppl bringing their theories fw, good comments sections with active discussions with participation from channel owners etc
@@trapadvisor I don't need to look it up. My mom has severe bipolar. And I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole with you. It's been hard for her and all of us. All I can really say about it, is that you are drastically downplaying the experience and impact of actual mania, if you think Elden Ring loretubers are remotely manic. It's a lot more than just getting deeply pie in the sky about a video game where the story is doing everything it can to bait your imagination out. Elden Ring is a game where you can never know the full answer, but can ask an infinite amount of questions. What people make of that might resemble thought processes seen in mania and psychosis... but the context matters A LOT. Being obsessed with something, talking a lot about it, and having weird ideas doesn't mean anything. Like, for all that you know, this mindset is specific to when they are engaging with Elden Ring, and then the rest of the time they're just living normal, boring lives. I've been playing guitar for over 20 years. I love not just guitar music, but all of it. I have already expanded into other instruments, could stand to learn a few more before I go. If all you ever see of me is me talking about that with a free platform to do as much of it as I want, you're going to see a total maniac. Real mania hits you in every area of your life and debilitates you - the regular things that you do stop, and everything falls apart in this cascading breakdown. Sometimes it seems short and sudden, but usually it's weeks to months where you're not holding frame for your days anymore and making a lot of damaging and nonsensical choices. You can't look at just a sliver of a life, people engaging with entertainment, and glean nearly enough to see actual mania. You just won't know. Getting pie in the sky with a big, nascent story built for exactly that, is expected. There is enough depth to it, that you can make studying this game a full time hobby and I still wouldn't call that unhealthy. Like, a normal person who gets this story and enjoys it, would probably seem manic to you too. It's more a reflection of the story itself and how it is told. It's a rabbit hole, and we are Alice. But it's not a full trip to wonderland, just a curated visitation. It might look like hypomania by some superficial markers, but that honestly may as well be nothing. There's not a lot of difference between someone who is hypomanic and someone who's just passionate. The difference will show in how that slots into everything else in their lives. Also consider that how these individuals present to you, is in fact a presentation. The internet itself is kind of "manic" in that way. You take vaguer ideas and make them declarative statements because being ontological is favored by algos. And people tend to respond better to creators who strike them as very passionate and invested. You will see a lot of people on the internet lean into that high-energy, rapidly diverging presentation where they're making a lot of a big statements. But I tend to think that's much more telling of what people want to see than necessarily who the creators actually are, let alone how they actually live lol Saying stuff on the internet is just never gonna be enough to reach that conclusion. Mania is mania because of what it does to your life. You can look at the list of symptoms and make comparisons, but actually diagnosing it is FAR more than that. To figure it out, a professional will be assessing everything in your life. Taken in a vacuum, tons of normal things will fit that list, and still not be remotely connected to a mental illness. There's a big picture to it that none of us have with any of these people. Go read the DSM and tell me you don't start wondering if you're not crazy yourself. It's not a good gauge to just pick up and use like that. You need training to make the right distinctions and put it all into context. You can't look at a list of symptoms and just go "Yup." It's not just symptoms in the moment, it's patterning over years, across different areas of life.
About the Crucible Tree or Spiral, yep, they worship the same thing, but give a look to the giant dark tree on the horizon. Spiral is a common thing in Hornsent society, and literally one of the first thing we can find in Belurat are stone tables with a spiral tree. Also, in their tower we can find some pieces of the Scadutree, placed in altars and holy places. On the other side, Messmer soldiers have the Scadutree on their armor, but seems they don't like have it, as make it Gold is a little consolation. So, Hornsent worship the Scadutree, a tree obscured by Marika, the SHADOW of the Erdtree and Erdtree's soldiers hates it. So, there are no real answers. I don't think someone even burden the Tree, not at least in Marika's timeline, but in any case possibly the original form the Hornsent worshipped was the Scadutree, not obscured and less ruined and twisted. About Rauh, fun fact, seems Rauh is a strange translation german-japanese of Leif. Leif=Tree, and that place is full of big roots.
So I have a theory that the Shadow Realm is in a form of stasis (similar to Farum), where it has stayed in it's original state since being sealed. So I believe that the Scadutree is the Original form of the Erdtree and that Marika & Melina burned the 'overworld' Erdtree and replaced it with the golden one. Hence why the Shadow Realm has the wooden form and still as sap.
I need your help. Can you try to connect some of your theories with mesopotamian mythology? Elden ring lore is clearly based on mesopotamia. The people of Mesopotamia were astronomers who looked at the night sky for signs of “cycles” and the sun was divine. For them, an eclipse represented an “omen” which is a motif in elden ring. One of the statues in the eternal city of elden ring is holding a perfect copy of a real world map of babylon (the oldest world-map of the world) and babylon is located in mesopotamia. Also, mesopotamia was defined as a land between two rivers, just like in elden ring the underground ancient cities are all in between two rivers (the siofra and ainsel rivers) which are clearly inspired in the euphrates and tigris rivers that surround mesopotamia. The hornsent are probably inspired by the greeks, and there is a real world statue of moses where he has horns, and those horns were suppose to be “divine” which fits the ideology of the hornsent in elden ring. I also think that the rise of marika was inspired by the rise of christianity, which is pretty obvious when you consider the similarities between statues of marika and the statues of jesus christ. Sun realm = mesopotamia, hornsent = greeks, golden order = christianity I will add some more context. First, there is something I forgot to mention related to mesopotamia. Most people have heard of the story about the arc of noah, where he puts animals in a giant boat and saves himself in the apocalypse thanks to the advice of god. A lot of people don’t know that this tale is actually inspired by the mesopotamian tale called the “epic of gilgamesh” where the events are pretty much the same as the arc of noah. The reason why I bring this up is because in the dlc, there is a place (where st trina is found) filled with giants boats that look ancients, and near the cliff (where you have to jump from to begin the boss fight) there are a group of EVERY non-hostile animal from elden ring, they are just laying there with the giant boats, I think that this is a direct reference to the tale of gilgamesh where he saved one animal for every species in a giant boat. There is clearly something we are missing here and its definetely related to mesopotamia. Another thing that I think a lot of people are missing, is that there seems to be theme in elden ring that connects "water" with "death", if a great flood once ocurred in elden ring then it would make sense that the world of elden ring relates those two. The map of elden ring is filled boats in the seas, which could be a depiction of how people first arrived from the giants boats during the great flood, the mariners who represent those who live in death are always found in a pond of water riding a boat, the prince of death giant body grave seems to have a bunch of aquatic animals features, which makes sense if "water" is related to 'death" and lastly, the mesopotamians needed water for agriculture, and thus water represented "life" (which is similar to how marika's tree represents life) but at the same time they feared floods (flooding of water), because it would destroy their crops, I think that this could be interpreted as the duality of water representing both "life" and "death" which would explain the water connection with "those who live in death" and it would also explain why godwin's body is developing aquatic features since he is neither death or alive, but somewhere in between, I still have countless more connections that I would like to share, but for now, I hope somebody was able to develop a theory from this extra context.
I love the connections to real world societies, however I must admit that I don't find myself well versed enough in historical societies to have an meaningful input in my videos. I would HIGHLY recommend checking out Quelaag if you haven't already. She does some incredible deep dives into connections like this. While I understand the influence and inspiration of real world references in FS games, I personally enjoy sticking to in-game information to avoid drawing potential incorrect ideas. Appreciate the feedback though! Thanks for watching!
I love ER lore videos, but this one seemed to me just a restatement of the game I already played, rather than focusing on lore. I couldn’t make it past 10mins. That’s just me though.
In the crucible time period the giant crusher hammer states an iten description summarising that humans were stronger back then. Maybe one of the reasons why marika doesnt want people to find the truth.
A note on the power of Death: it might actually be an energy, similar to the energy that gives beings life. If the Erdtree is, or was, related to the Crucible, and the Crucible provided Life to the Land, then the Erdtree's counterpart - the Scadutree - is what provides Death. This assumption can be based on more than just being the counterpart of the Erdtree, as the Scadutree is comprised of two colors mixed together - black and gold - which we find mixed together in all things relating to Death, or more specifically Deathblight.
I've been saying for years the Erdtree is a fake, that the actual tree is just a stub you can see at the throne room and underground, with regular wooden roots in the catacombs, but every golden part is just an incantation, and no one believes me. In several parts we can clearly see the tree is transparent but people tell me it's not. I thought I was going mad!!!
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Correction: you witnessed your second Omen in Stormveil. Margit is an Omen as well. Personally, I wish Rogier had some dialogue when you encounter him in Stormveil Chapel where he talks about how unusual Margit's presence is, how Omens don't usually have their horns uncut and how Margit doesn't seem to be coordinated with the rest of Godrick's men at all. Morgott's reveal during his boss fight was something I feel the game should have tried to build up a bit.
@@Nemo12417 lol, I have no idea how I forgot Margit/Morgott. Thanks for the correction
characters explicitly explaining plot never makes a story better, elden rings story shows instead of tells which is what makes it so great and is why videos like this even exist.
There’s a cut quest with an NPC named “Lord Shanehaight” who you’d meet in Leyndell, and he would talk about the Omen making noise in the sewers. You would likely meet him again before approaching Morgott, where he’d have dialogue expressing his distress at the realization that the Lord of Leyndell is an Omen. He might have even been intended to be summonable, but that’s more speculative.
He's not a regular omen though. He's like a damn KANG!
@@Dekuzek , it may be kind off topic are what do you think of this theory of mine ?
finlay betrayed Malenia upon taking her to the haligtree after jerren started making highly innacurate fanart of her and malenia and sending it to everyone in the lands between so as to destroy malenias image. That was not before finlay was borrowing mohgs ass cheeks and rannis hair strand to do a roast battle with bernhal, vagram, Gideon, Alexander alongside ansbach, varre, lannseax until midra was paid by patches to transform into a frenzy powered armored core. To witness the destruction, patches invited master Wilhelm, Sekiro to try out the device but Sekiro died of shock and wilheim t posed, ascending into the skies and meeting goldmask
After the battle of aeonia, castellan of redmane castle jerren swore revenge against Malenia for driving his master Radahn insane. The heavily injured Jerren who was about to pass out watched as finlay carried Malenia out of caelid, cursing them but was helpless given finlay was ranni extremely fast. However He had a plan to destroy malenias image. He paid his former enemy Seluvis. The plan was to have Seluvis, a master of lore inaccurate fanartd draw highly lore.. inaccurate fanart of malenia and finlay which would make Malenia seem like a massive piece of shit that is only good for reproduction. Also the fanart would depict vleanrot knights looking human which is something miquella has denied since the formation of the haligtree. To depict finlay a cleanort knight looking human would just give the message that miquella is a liar and his age is a scam. Jerren hired patcehs to introduce tech so jerren could cancel Malenia online. Finlay on the way to the haligtree was kicked by patches who promised 100000000 runes to participate in a roast tournament. Finlay was loyal to Malenia but money was more important to her. Finlay with 100000000 Trina lilies from patches gave them to the unconscious Malenia to make her stay unconscious for 24h. Finlay to do the roast battle proceeded to borrow mohgs ass cheeks which mog regenerated and rannis hair which she used to make a machine gun with some of malenias skin(numen skin can graft stuff). The roast battle involved bernhal, vagram, Gideon, Alexander alongside ansbach varre, lannseax. Finlay won it after 13 hours. Patches reveals the entire roast tournament is a scam and he won't be rewarding the winner. Patches pays midra to transform onto a frenzy powered armoured core Which he uses to destroy all of limgrave. This happened because Jerren paid patches 3478494 trillion runes. Patches had Wilhelm and Sekiro shows up to try out the device and witness the destruction. Sekiro was the shocked to death by a lighting which struck him. Master Wilhelm used mods to ascend into the skies but he met goldmask and they both t posed. Patches within 4 hours distributed technology and internet to the entire lands between. Finlay returned Malenia to the haligtree. By the time she returned she realised that everyone had a lore innacurate view of her and malenia. Thinking Malenia was behind this (finlay is dumb) finlay killed malenia but not before gwyndolin shot her to death using a missile launcher. Bernhal who had used the zip glitch and ended up in the haligtree questioned why gwyndolin is here if Aldrich ate him in DS3. Patches explains that time is convoluted in the lands between. MichAl zaki shows up and beats patches to death. Patches is not surprised given the entire situation was caused by his timeline alterations. Patches lets Michael kills him. Michael undoes the events of this entire parody and patches awakes in murkwater cave in the present like nothing happened. many years ago, finlay took Malenia to the haligtree. Patches time travelled and showed up and claimed that malenia made lore.innacurate fanart of malenia and finlay. This angered finlay who decided to betray malenia. This time instead of killing Malena, malenia awoke as finlay stabbed jer she did not receive the large dosage Trina lilies who caused her to be unconscious for 24h in the erased events. Malenia killed finlay, Finlay's dying words saying that malenia will pay for that terrible faner and asked morgott to do something about it because she thought she paid morgott to protect her(she didn't she halluctanted it because she drank some of the godrick brand orange juice on the way to the haligtree). Malenia asked morgott to explain this and morgott asked hewg to do some spirit tuning on finlayz Turing finlay into a spirit summon.
Please do share this theory, I want the entire fandom to hear this!
Also you can find more theories on my community post!
As a natural skeptic... I take what I like from lore videos and apply them to how I view elden ring..... I have never seen such sensible but unique takes. The perspectives you have offered have been crucial to my own view of the world of elden ring.... Thank you
After much thought I might have an answer to the order of events.... Maybe... I'll tell it as a story in broad strokes. A long time ago, there was a tree, well a crucible to be exact, life, power and blessings sprung forth from the crucible, the foremost of the people that worshiped the crucible were the crucible knights. Honorable and pure, they formed a belief system centered around what was most holy to them. The leader of this vaunted order of knights was there leader Godfrey (I know he doesn't take that name tell later I'm trying to make this straight forward tho) Godfrey in the eyes of his own people was second only to there god and consort. Such a renown knight of the realm must by necessity have a wife of equal status, it's really hard to tell by how the shaman are treated but they are considered holy by the hornsent, able to fuse there life essence with others, its very close to what the crucible does. Marika is chosen and marries the foremost knight of the realm.... Sadly, on there honeymoon (it's more thematic this way) they stumble across Bonnie village... Neither of them are aware of what transpires in the goal.... But they find out..... In horror and disgust for how could life be the most sacred thing to them and yet do this to marika's people, they go to a nearby church and start talking..... In secret they declare them self king and queen of a new order, an order that will never let such horror happen again, the rest writes it self pretty much. It could be that after discovering boony goal they rush to marika's home town and to save her family her friends only to find nothing.... What Marika asks for on her last visit to shaman village depends on where you want to place the forming of the plan to become a god and overthrow the crucible... Could use some refinement but that's how I see it with what I know
14:45 "the Won Ton strumpet" 😂😂 I'll admit to kinda being a ho for dumplings sometimes
I kept thinking the same thing 😂😂😂😂😂😂
About the connection spirits-horns, in this universe seems Horns are something that connect the creatures with the spirits and possibly some gods. Horned Omens, and only Horned ones under Leyndell, are capable to shoot fire and call little vengeful spirits (The little yellow-brown flames) Torrent and Ancestral Creature became literally beings of spirit, and in the end of the dlc who calls Miquella through the gate? Radanh with the body of Mohg, an OMEN, with HORNS. (I also noticed, Commander Niall at Sol Castle calls spirits... and his armor has horns on it.) Possibly because Crucible is a thing of Life and Death and Life from Death, and horns rappresent this more than wings or tails.
One thing i believe is worthy of note is how the divine beings the Horsent invoke seem to originate in something different from Crucible, albeit closely related to it.
The impression i got is that the Crucible itself seems to act like a conduit to reach out to something else.
It reminds me of how the player needs to offer some life energy (Crimson Flask) for a spirit (Torrent) to be able to take root on the physical world.
I think much like we see in the incantations, the Crucible has many facets. It appears in physical traits but also in things like storms, lighting, frost and the direct harnessed power seen with the Hornsent. I think they all originate from the same base power but are manifested in different ways. As you mention with Torrent, I think it is likely that physical existences & spirits are 100% a result of the Crucible.
Great video. One of the best videos about the crucible I've seen, and all backed up by our journey in-game without wild speculation!
I love the chronological discovery format of this video. Great job!
delicious wonton strumpets
I think I’d like to consider the possibility that Marika is actually a saint, that is to say, the end result of a Jar ritual, and so she harbors a visceral disdain for the hornsent and a desire to forget about them and end the crucible rituals. I personally think that the red junk Marika is standing in for the trailer is the innards of her jar, and that the crucible in that spot is a sort of metaphorical furnace that forges a god, wherein the Elden Beast is a type of Ancestral Spirit born through Marika’s ascension… somehow. That’s the feeling I get from all this.
Its possible that only a saint can become a God, and that the process requires dropping off “body parts”, which is to say, shriving the imperfect flesh of the other people, making room for the communion to take place. This flesh, when separated from the main host, could take the form of a less powerful being under uncertain circumstances. In this way, Marika may have shed Radagon before ever becoming a god, in much the same way Miquella shed saint Trina before his ascension to godhood. Is it a mere coincidence that Trina is a “saint”, or could that title be hinting at the Jar saints? Who can say…
Of note, Miquella and Malenia both shed whole people in order to ascend closer to godhood. Perhaps communion with the Rot god has been taking place since Malenia’s birth, and with each flowering she becomes a better vessal for it, shedding her buds in the form of millicent and her many sisters… yet in the case of Miquella, perhaps he was a saint born prematurely from a small jar, and thus his permanent childlike stature? Obviously he is no less powerful for it due to his… persuasive skill set.
It could be that the womb in general is a sort of crucible, which is why the Omen occur… yet, I think morgot and mohg are not the same as emperians, and cannot commune with a god (or the crucible), since they were not saints, nor even capable of being made into saints due to their horns. I also think the sight of horns elicits a disgust in Marika due to her own beginnings, so she hides the omen the same way she had hidden the shadow lands.
Lastly, i think the fire of blasphemy, and the blasphemous serpent, are somehow part of the situation. Where a god is (hypothetically) made by shedding the unnecessary parts and communing with the crucible/greater will or some other being, the blasphemous serpent seems to devour incessantly to become stronger. Perhaps the blasphemous serpent itself is attempting to serve as the jar, and by eating strong warriors it seeks to become a “saint” type, or a being on the level of an emperian. Messmer could be a similar creature, or was deceived by them, much like Rykard.
I know this is all sorta incoherent and I apologize for how disorganized it is… watching your video just kinda instantly brought this all to mind so I started typing lol. Its just my theory in the moment, but maybe it has legs enough for somebody of your caliber to put the pieces together, if it even passes muster. Bless!
major theme of ER is having strong opinions / believes about things you have only partial understanding, cults and civilizations sprouting from misunderstanding and the lack of info. It seems to me that hornsent were worshipping the crucible energy but didn't know about the elden ring: there is no iconography or any mentions that suggest they would be aware of it. Why? because it was removed from their sights : it was the age of dragon lords, possibly even lacking a god who fled. that is why they're obsessed with creating saints and reaching heavens, echoing Babel's story. Divine powers and rules defining the world were not near their reach. It changes when Marika becomes a god and a vessel of elden ring. No one now needs to reach for the divine, because it is right there, a tree visible from everywhere, and a human and a mother bestowing blessings.
A significant part of world-building is related to souls, births and deaths. Thanks to stone coffins at Cerulean Coast, we know that a proper handling of these matters is necessary, and every ancient culture had to deal with it somehow.
But everything has changed when Marika's ascended to godhood, and the Erdtree was created. Now, "Erdtree governs all" is the leading doctrine, and Erdtree burial has replaced almost all other burial rights (Ancestral Followers were isolated in Nokron, so they weren't affected). But it's not only about the dead - Erdtree also was able to produce new lives. It embodies both sides of the cycle of life. That's one clue what the Crucible is.
Another clue comes from Rauh, who learned to use spirits to control the flow of water. The water was a trivial case: it took only a simple spirit and a hollow rock.
Later the spirit technology was advanced to control a flow of molten rock, and applied to animate Golems. So there's an underlying principle there. Flows and currents can be controlled by specific kinds of spirits put into a fitting vessel.
If we follow this line of reasoning, the Crucible is the primal, untamed loop the souls follow. And the Crucible is shaped like a double spiral - one branch goes "up", another returns "down". But this complicated cycle of life is just a flow of souls. And flows can be controlled with spirits.
Since the cycle is really complicated, it requires a very powerful spirits to control it - which, in turn, implies the need for a potent vessel, that fits for the task, and which is physically able to contain this super-spirit (also known as Elden Ring).
The combination of vessel and spirit capable to control a cycle of life (the Crucible) is called a God. And the God's primary function is ecological. Not religious or political.
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Something I've noticed i haven't seen anyone else mention, there's a "Talisman of _All Crucibles_ " referring to the crucible in the plural as well as six distinctly mentioned "aspects". Further the cut item Miranda's Prayer explicitly refers to a "Flower Crucible", lining up nicely with the "bloom" aspect. All this suggests to me that at least at some point, the crucible was presented or perceived in the plural, not as a singular entity or concept. There also just happens to be six divine towers, which may or may not be relevant 🤔
Personally I always took the 'all crucibles' to just mean the multiple crucible aspects rather than multiple crucibles. As for the Divine Towers it's hard to say. There are ties to the Fell God/Giants and the Astrologers, but I haven't found any direct connection to anything crucible related so far.
One thing to note is that the crucible is related to storms
Placidusax was the elden lord of the ancient crucible era, he seems to have the power of the storm, whe know that the beasts(which are very close to the dragons) are also related to the storm(the stormhawk in the base game)
The red lightning(red is closer to life thus is fitting that the ancient dragons which are probably the first lifeforms and closest to the crucible), the wind that stormveil uses,the golden lightining are all related because they are the power of the crucible but in different forms
This is a great observation. I just realized that in many cases storms, particularly Farum Azula's storm beyond time, are also in the shape of spirals, a normalized crucible current that reaches into the heavens.
100%. Reflecting, I think I should have mentioned it outright in the video that I think the Crucible is all forms of Nature (Life, weather, etc) Which is why it has such strong ties to storms, lightning and frost along with life itself.
Since this a good crucible video, showcasing pretty much all its mentions, I've got to mention a couple really important things to point to-
-- the crucible heavily borrows from the flame of chaos in ds1 and ds3s profraned flame even moreso. Even the fingers borrow heavily from ds3 and ds1.
--while the greattree is mentioned, it could simply be the scadutree. The scadutree does not have an explained birth like the erdtree does, and pre history, the people responsible for building catacombs, are heavily explored in the DLC, and renamed. For example the hornsent are obviously retconned ancestral followers. The storm lord retconned into a lion, from a bird. Theres no reason to think the greattree isnt an example of this
-- the crucibles power, the normalized current, much like grace, clearly mutates people, as well as birthed all golem/stone-hybrid lifeforms. Misbegotten were in contact and cursed by it, demi-human, bat ladys, and worm faced monsters all curse, cry, and pray for their curse, and blame it on marika-(implying the shattering mutated them, in a wrath of the gods situation), while the omen curse rune mirrors and explains the rest of the curse/blessing lore(a curse when accepted and normal, is a blessing)
The crucible is represented most, physically, on crucible knight armor and weapons. Armor, shields, and weapons will often have a large blood gem(primordial red tinged gold), with vein like imagery spreading out from the gem. Combine that with GRRMs game of thrones lore, with weirwood trees being very similar in nature, and the divine gate of punishment(one of its japanese names)/purifying chamber being an allusion to crags from ds3- and we get an even heavier picture of evil gods found through sacrifice.
(Though the theme is absolutely moreso war, and conflict, rather than sacrifice, the divine gate is meant to represent a barbed wire barb for instance,and crucible knights are seen as chaotic[war,fire,evolution-is the symbolism] and even the concept of colloseum combat was the one tradition allowed to stay throughout the orders of ages)
About the Scadutree, I do think that it is the Great tree and the original form of the Erdtree prior to the Golden replacement. My theory is that the Shadow Realm is in stasis (similar to Farum) and that it was sealed before the Lands Between Erdtree was burned. So the Scadutree still stands as it did when sealed.
I thought it was interesting that crucible incantations tend to have gold and holy damage properties, shows to me that they both originated in similar energies of sorts.
I think the scadu tree is a giant sunflower starting to wilt, with the lands between as the sun realm, losing its foundation. Also the sprigs on a lot of murals are, for sure, baby sunflowers.
I take it as the scadutree is the flower crucible, and its so big that it pushes the shadow realm downwards as it grew.
The minor erdtree church has a four ringed elden ring engraving on the ground, with pots around it. The erdtree might have been grown in a pot, with the depiction at farum azula showing it in a stage of growth, if you look at the ground around maliketh, you can see the same mural as the one with gold, and it looks more like half of it is underground, spreading its roots. This would mean the farum azula depiction is after the minor erdtrees engravings depiction, growing out of its pot. This would also mean, while the erdtree was young, dragons were the ones defending it, perhaps against the Giants.
The giant dragon in leyndell is protecting the lower area with the shadow of its wing, where you can find a church that has regrowing flowers on their metal windows. This was a culture within the capitol that worship flowers, that the erdtree replaced. You can also see a statue of someone holding a single flower and catering to it while the others wilt and try and grow up the person standing on them.
I think the old culture was accepting of the death of their flowers, knowing they regrow. With the erdtree instead being chosen to grow forever at the expense of this older culture. The confusing part to me is Radagon vs Marika, I don't think the golden order and erdtree faithful are the same team. I think Radagon is the head of the Golden Order, and Marika is the head of the Tarnished or Erdtree Faithful. I know they are the same person, but Radagon has different laws with the Colloseum, which is closer in culture to the Radahn festival and the blooming of flowers. It could be that Radagon is a part of her that does not want to die, while Marika would have the tarnished end it and restart. Its also interesting that in seluria's tree spear, the erdtree is mentioned to be based on its crucible. I don't see why I shouldn't consider this as saying, at the end of of one tree, came another.
Something I also think of, is if Messmer purged the hornsent because he felt abandoned, there's a hornsent spirit that says something about Messmer still holding resentment
after thinking about it, the erdtree already blossomed, it already spread its seeds around like a sunflower, and I think its symbolic to the sun falling along with Godwyn
I think the crucible is the dead bodies piled up together. The aspects are probably the result of using certain creatures with those traits. The tree seems to be a catalyst or a way to gather and collect the energy from the bodies. The euporia can't get energy from reanimated bodies because the energy is gone. Burning the tree the first time cleared the crucible, erd tree burial was controlled and limited. It seems to fit with the underground cities and farum azula as well. The bodies were used to focus life energy into whatever they were working on. Crucibles by other names. The rune of death being removed meant no new crucibles could be made. It makes me think creatures are created instead of being born.
I always pictured the crucible as the big old bucket Marika planted the baby Erdtree in.
But what about the fell god being the original horned being from the furnace visage?
Is the fell god itself the crusible's vassel? Like how the elden beast is the greater will's?
Hear me out: I still think the scadutree is the original form of the crucible, it is said that the scadutree is the shadow of the erdtree giving most people the idea they are 2 sides of one coin, but shadow can be used to describe the former form or state of something aswell as in "the shadow of your past is haunting you" to give one example.
so what i think happened here is miyazaki used a clever wordplay to hide the obvious, which is that the scadutree or rather the life energy of the scadutree shown as golden liquid like energy was used to nurture the erdtree giving it it's golden color and connection.
we have to keep in mind the greater will and it's gold was already in use with placidusax and his god who is the serpent that marika slayed at the gate of divinity causing placidusax to think it fled and abandoned him.
this makes the crucible the greater wills first attempt on a world order and after marika took the serpent gods golden strings (godly dna if you will) she forcefully made herself a god with help of the strings and the divine gate, elden ring leans heavily into race and DNA making the strings a perfect fit to be basically godly DNA.
Now this is where i'm reaching alot and i understand it sounds unlikely but here goes: after all this happened marika planted a minor erdtree incantation (she put one in her home village right after ascending) at where leyndell is now and drained the scadutree of it's energy to nurture what will later become the great erdtree, that's also why the scadutree looks so unhealthy, it's been stripped off most of it's energy.
what made me think that is that the minor erdtree is a tree made purely out of gold and the erdtree is exactly that in bigger, so what's logically the one and only thing that could nurture a thing like that? exactly the raw energy sapped from the scadutree.
and with that did marika not only strip future hornsent of their horns, but using it's power to birth her own order, this also neatly ties in as to why some beings are still making contact with the crucible, because it's not gone but part of the erdtree now it's energy scource so the misbegotten are nothing more than unlucky accident caused by a error of the erdtree that happens from time to time.
thanks alot for whoever read this, i hope it makes sense.
Nice video! Should maybe also added how dna and spirals fit. also no beginning and no end
Hornsents seems have a bad treatment for Not-Horned creatures. And, just to be very clear, Hornsents are still humans, just they have horns on their head, and if horns are a thing of Superiority, then no horns? You're inferior. Japanese about the clan of people that became the Bloodfiends, says they were a clan of Slaves. Even because we find in the tower inquisitors, fat inquisitors and high priests have DAMN big horns.
Marika, Shamans (Imiko in japanese, a caste of ancient japanese maidens who are close to spirit world, only women) and seems Midra were a special kind of no-horned people, maybe all of them for the same reason of be numen.
Also, about Godfrey and Hornsents, there is a clear connection between Godfrey and Crucible, but i don't think he cares a lot about it. There is a theory he's one of those who hunts the bears. Possibly Marika just used him, Crucible Knight and Hornsents for her goals and when they were not important anymore zac, exiled and purged.
P.P.S: In the cut content the Euphoria was connected to Miquella, not the Hornsents (From here the power not very good with Those who live in death, something Miquella hates.)
"And in the Shadow Keep we found that Messmer is Marika's son"
*Literally everyone knew it from the first day from the Trailer and even Miyazaki said it in an interview*
You are correct but this is when it is officially confirmed in game.
6:42 And perhaps because spirits are what the Erdtree feeds upon.
I actually was of the theory that she was already queen before ascending to godhood, because of the location of the shadow, keep along with the hinterland's
I believe that was originally her palace, but after marrying into the royal family of the hornsent she went to Enir illim
I like this! I've definitely changed my opinion on the timeline a few times. It's really hard to nail down a definitive series of events.
Big fan of the OSRS prof pic too!
Thank You So Much. This Was Fantastic!
Two things I want to add to your ideas that may be relevant:
1. The Divine Bird Feathers incantation mentions, "The divine bird warriors, and indeed this technique, are said to bear resemblance to the golden Crucible."
2. Many depictions of the Crucible are of a spiral around a vertical structure. Personally, I think the Scadutree and Erdtree were once one and known as the Crucible. When the Shadowlands was displaced from the Lands Between, the spiral no longer had the brace of the erdtree to wrap around and is why the scadutree is now twisting into its own self destruction.
Considering both of these points... I have no idea and have been stumped for months on how it could be relevant to the lore. It seems important though.
Marika wished for eternal life for her family, who would go on to be regarded as the Shamans. This eternal nature would attract others who sought the Shamans life for their own. They would torment and butcher the shamans, trying to imbue themselves with the Shamans gift. Marika witnessed the blessing upon her people become a curse.
I feel like the crucible is like the lifestream from Final Fantasy VII and I can see that as being the inspiration for it since it is the life coursing through the planet, it is very spirally and it is spiritual energy. And after the meteor impact in FF7 those infected with the geostigma are considered impure which I think parallels the misbegotten/omen.
Good video, I like your stuff. It doesn’t feel like your having a manic breakdown like it does when I watch other small Elden ring theorists.
Dunno what you mean, I think I'm subscribed to all the lore channels (lol) and I find it's generally a good vibe with ppl bringing their theories fw, good comments sections with active discussions with participation from channel owners etc
Look up the definition of mania. I’m not saying they’re like crazy or bad people. They just show signs of being caught up in a manic state.
@trapadvisor yeah I know what it is, just never struck me that way. See a lot of work and enthusiasm generally, and openness to being wrong etc
@@trapadvisor I don't need to look it up. My mom has severe bipolar. And I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole with you. It's been hard for her and all of us.
All I can really say about it, is that you are drastically downplaying the experience and impact of actual mania, if you think Elden Ring loretubers are remotely manic. It's a lot more than just getting deeply pie in the sky about a video game where the story is doing everything it can to bait your imagination out. Elden Ring is a game where you can never know the full answer, but can ask an infinite amount of questions.
What people make of that might resemble thought processes seen in mania and psychosis... but the context matters A LOT. Being obsessed with something, talking a lot about it, and having weird ideas doesn't mean anything. Like, for all that you know, this mindset is specific to when they are engaging with Elden Ring, and then the rest of the time they're just living normal, boring lives. I've been playing guitar for over 20 years. I love not just guitar music, but all of it. I have already expanded into other instruments, could stand to learn a few more before I go. If all you ever see of me is me talking about that with a free platform to do as much of it as I want, you're going to see a total maniac.
Real mania hits you in every area of your life and debilitates you - the regular things that you do stop, and everything falls apart in this cascading breakdown. Sometimes it seems short and sudden, but usually it's weeks to months where you're not holding frame for your days anymore and making a lot of damaging and nonsensical choices.
You can't look at just a sliver of a life, people engaging with entertainment, and glean nearly enough to see actual mania. You just won't know. Getting pie in the sky with a big, nascent story built for exactly that, is expected. There is enough depth to it, that you can make studying this game a full time hobby and I still wouldn't call that unhealthy.
Like, a normal person who gets this story and enjoys it, would probably seem manic to you too. It's more a reflection of the story itself and how it is told. It's a rabbit hole, and we are Alice. But it's not a full trip to wonderland, just a curated visitation. It might look like hypomania by some superficial markers, but that honestly may as well be nothing. There's not a lot of difference between someone who is hypomanic and someone who's just passionate. The difference will show in how that slots into everything else in their lives.
Also consider that how these individuals present to you, is in fact a presentation. The internet itself is kind of "manic" in that way. You take vaguer ideas and make them declarative statements because being ontological is favored by algos. And people tend to respond better to creators who strike them as very passionate and invested. You will see a lot of people on the internet lean into that high-energy, rapidly diverging presentation where they're making a lot of a big statements. But I tend to think that's much more telling of what people want to see than necessarily who the creators actually are, let alone how they actually live lol
Saying stuff on the internet is just never gonna be enough to reach that conclusion. Mania is mania because of what it does to your life. You can look at the list of symptoms and make comparisons, but actually diagnosing it is FAR more than that. To figure it out, a professional will be assessing everything in your life. Taken in a vacuum, tons of normal things will fit that list, and still not be remotely connected to a mental illness. There's a big picture to it that none of us have with any of these people. Go read the DSM and tell me you don't start wondering if you're not crazy yourself. It's not a good gauge to just pick up and use like that. You need training to make the right distinctions and put it all into context. You can't look at a list of symptoms and just go "Yup." It's not just symptoms in the moment, it's patterning over years, across different areas of life.
About the Crucible Tree or Spiral, yep, they worship the same thing, but give a look to the giant dark tree on the horizon. Spiral is a common thing in Hornsent society, and literally one of the first thing we can find in Belurat are stone tables with a spiral tree. Also, in their tower we can find some pieces of the Scadutree, placed in altars and holy places. On the other side, Messmer soldiers have the Scadutree on their armor, but seems they don't like have it, as make it Gold is a little consolation. So, Hornsent worship the Scadutree, a tree obscured by Marika, the SHADOW of the Erdtree and Erdtree's soldiers hates it.
So, there are no real answers. I don't think someone even burden the Tree, not at least in Marika's timeline, but in any case possibly the original form the Hornsent worshipped was the Scadutree, not obscured and less ruined and twisted.
About Rauh, fun fact, seems Rauh is a strange translation german-japanese of Leif. Leif=Tree, and that place is full of big roots.
Is the shadow tree, what is left of the tree that burned? Is that why it has the sap still?
So I have a theory that the Shadow Realm is in a form of stasis (similar to Farum), where it has stayed in it's original state since being sealed. So I believe that the Scadutree is the Original form of the Erdtree and that Marika & Melina burned the 'overworld' Erdtree and replaced it with the golden one. Hence why the Shadow Realm has the wooden form and still as sap.
I need your help. Can you try to connect some of your theories with mesopotamian mythology? Elden ring lore is clearly based on mesopotamia. The people of Mesopotamia were astronomers who looked at the night sky for signs of “cycles” and the sun was divine. For them, an eclipse represented an “omen” which is a motif in elden ring. One of the statues in the eternal city of elden ring is holding a perfect copy of a real world map of babylon (the oldest world-map of the world) and babylon is located in mesopotamia. Also, mesopotamia was defined as a land between two rivers, just like in elden ring the underground ancient cities are all in between two rivers (the siofra and ainsel rivers) which are clearly inspired in the euphrates and tigris rivers that surround mesopotamia. The hornsent are probably inspired by the greeks, and there is a real world statue of moses where he has horns, and those horns were suppose to be “divine” which fits the ideology of the hornsent in elden ring. I also think that the rise of marika was inspired by the rise of christianity, which is pretty obvious when you consider the similarities between statues of marika and the statues of jesus christ. Sun realm = mesopotamia, hornsent = greeks, golden order = christianity
I will add some more context. First, there is something I forgot to mention related to mesopotamia. Most people have heard of the story about the arc of noah, where he puts animals in a giant boat and saves himself in the apocalypse thanks to the advice of god. A lot of people don’t know that this tale is actually inspired by the mesopotamian tale called the “epic of gilgamesh” where the events are pretty much the same as the arc of noah. The reason why I bring this up is because in the dlc, there is a place (where st trina is found) filled with giants boats that look ancients, and near the cliff (where you have to jump from to begin the boss fight) there are a group of EVERY non-hostile animal from elden ring, they are just laying there with the giant boats, I think that this is a direct reference to the tale of gilgamesh where he saved one animal for every species in a giant boat. There is clearly something we are missing here and its definetely related to mesopotamia.
Another thing that I think a lot of people are missing, is that there seems to be theme in elden ring that connects "water" with "death", if a great flood once ocurred in elden ring then it would make sense that the world of elden ring relates those two. The map of elden ring is filled boats in the seas, which could be a depiction of how people first arrived from the giants boats during the great flood, the mariners who represent those who live in death are always found in a pond of water riding a boat, the prince of death giant body grave seems to have a bunch of aquatic animals features, which makes sense if "water" is related to 'death" and lastly, the mesopotamians needed water for agriculture, and thus water represented "life" (which is similar to how marika's tree represents life) but at the same time they feared floods (flooding of water), because it would destroy their crops, I think that this could be interpreted as the duality of water representing both "life" and "death" which would explain the water connection with "those who live in death" and it would also explain why godwin's body is developing aquatic features since he is neither death or alive, but somewhere in between, I still have countless more connections that I would like to share, but for now, I hope somebody was able to develop a theory from this extra context.
I love the connections to real world societies, however I must admit that I don't find myself well versed enough in historical societies to have an meaningful input in my videos. I would HIGHLY recommend checking out Quelaag if you haven't already. She does some incredible deep dives into connections like this.
While I understand the influence and inspiration of real world references in FS games, I personally enjoy sticking to in-game information to avoid drawing potential incorrect ideas.
Appreciate the feedback though! Thanks for watching!
Is the crucible just an outer god like scarlet rot is?
32:07 So we're going back to Demon's souls where two different fundamentalists believe in the same thing but are too blind to see it. 😆
I love ER lore videos, but this one seemed to me just a restatement of the game I already played, rather than focusing on lore. I couldn’t make it past 10mins. That’s just me though.
Yes someone who thinks like me. Good video.
In the crucible time period the giant crusher hammer states an iten description summarising that humans were stronger back then. Maybe one of the reasons why marika doesnt want people to find the truth.
A note on the power of Death: it might actually be an energy, similar to the energy that gives beings life.
If the Erdtree is, or was, related to the Crucible, and the Crucible provided Life to the Land, then the Erdtree's counterpart - the Scadutree - is what provides Death. This assumption can be based on more than just being the counterpart of the Erdtree, as the Scadutree is comprised of two colors mixed together - black and gold - which we find mixed together in all things relating to Death, or more specifically Deathblight.
That accoutrement pronunciation though. Hahaha
Honestly, didn't realize that I was reading the letter order wrong until this comment lol. Thanks for pointing it out
@@Dekuzek It's also French.
@@OlExtraRegularBass Clearly my mandatory highschool french class did not teach me enough
@@Dekuzek *weeps in Daniel Coulier
👏👏👏👏👏👏👍
so many loretubers popped up after dlc release, could someone tell me how to recognize if one is legit or full of bs?
i like it
Fix the Thumbnaill broskk
@@shortyfizlo Doing my best out here lol.
I've been saying for years the Erdtree is a fake, that the actual tree is just a stub you can see at the throne room and underground, with regular wooden roots in the catacombs, but every golden part is just an incantation, and no one believes me. In several parts we can clearly see the tree is transparent but people tell me it's not. I thought I was going mad!!!
Is the shadow tree the real form of the erdtree without the golden transparent bs that Marika put on top of that?
Wanton is not pronounced like Won Ton...