This helped me understand why Falco is so good and frustrating to play against. He has a guaranteed mixup if he attacks your shield properly. Thank you.
Great video, I never realised staling affects shieldstun. I never know if it's even worth doing autocancel bair etc. because as you say, if you shorthop autocancel you're probably going to be hitting the top of shield so it's pretty punishable as it is
Yeah it’s the kind of thing you don’t want to assume will always make a difference, as sometimes two different percents do the same amount of shield stun, so it just depends. Falco is a good example, as his shine can be slightly stale and it won’t change things. Easy way to tell is just to look at the frame advantage on block chart, and check if 1% less damage will do 1 less frame, then staling is gonna be relevant. Mostly I put it in the video because there’s gonna be situations where people have no idea why a thing works sometimes and not other times, and clearing that up felt important. In a lot of situations 1 frame less probably doesn’t matter, but if you’re the kind of player that really likes going for frame-tight punishes it def will
Wow, this is a great video! The effort in production is very apparent, and it's not often we get such accessible, in-depth explanations of one of the most complex, yet fundamental aspects of Melee. Also did you say doc's nair just for the meme at 11:12 lmao
@@Radarssbm Yeah it's a meme when doc shows up/is mentioned to just unprompted say "did you know that doctor mario's nair gets stronger the longer it stays out???" since it's such a well-known silly melee fact haha
great video. then I just spent like 30 mins exploring my OoPowershield options with yoshi, just to remember that yoshi's powershield cant be cancelled at all :(
Great video! Lots of information told in a concise and engaging way! One small criticism, though. The color choice in your frame visualizer you use at about 4:00 and 21:00 is difficult to discern for colorblind people (or at least for me). I actually couldn't tell the last square was a different color until I took a color-picker to a screenshot. So if you use something similar in the future I recommend using a darker shade of green.
Oh wait I thought you meant the hit box bubbles within the game, and not the frame stuff. Yep, definitely could’ve changed that, sorry about that! Will keep it in mind. Would different colours work better?
@@Radarssbm Yellow, green, and blue are fine together for the most part. You just need to up the contrast. I recommend doing it in grayscale first, then applying the color over top.
Yes! I might do a video on how stale moves work (would need to understand it more deeply than I do now) but the TLDR is this: -resets after death - stale queue is 9 moves long, each new move pushes old moves out of the queue. -doing two moves in a row is more impactful than having them spaced out across the queue (as in you did shine 6 moves ago vs 2 shines in a row)
@@tiebex Usually it's a combination of things! In this case, you can do testing in game, and you can use ikneedata's stale queue as a reference (go to ikneedata.com, click on the specific move, then experiment with the stale queue in the bottom left) In general though, researching this stuff has been historically tricky, but the existence of sites like ikneedata, meleeframedata.com and 20XX/Uncle Punch make it soooo much easier. Really hoping to help educate people on this stuff so we can see sick innovations in the game!
I think frame date another things could go through some standard fighting games standardization and probably be a lot better off for it You've got startup active and recovery frames. So you call it iasa but really it's just the first interruptible frame. So the frame right after the move Stops being active or the first recovery frame. Something you could borrow from taking as well is s or basically if the move is done completely perfectly as if by a computer that's the amount of startup it has.
What you’re describing is not what IASA is though. It’s not the first frame after the move is done being active, it’s something entirely different lol.
Could someone make this but for the new Smash Brothers? I mean I'm from when melee came out so I guess I'm basically a smash Boomer these days but like The local tournaments here don't play Street Fighter or tech and then they basically Play nothing but ssbu
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
This helped me understand why Falco is so good and frustrating to play against. He has a guaranteed mixup if he attacks your shield properly. Thank you.
It's so insane that such a comprehensive and well crafted video like this only has 4k views. Awesome work michael
As someone who gets easily lost in Melee science, the way you breakdown the info is very digestible. Great work dude
This is why Melee is so much like a traditional fighting game to me :)
Radar POG
Great video, I never realised staling affects shieldstun. I never know if it's even worth doing autocancel bair etc. because as you say, if you shorthop autocancel you're probably going to be hitting the top of shield so it's pretty punishable as it is
Yeah it’s the kind of thing you don’t want to assume will always make a difference, as sometimes two different percents do the same amount of shield stun, so it just depends. Falco is a good example, as his shine can be slightly stale and it won’t change things.
Easy way to tell is just to look at the frame advantage on block chart, and check if 1% less damage will do 1 less frame, then staling is gonna be relevant.
Mostly I put it in the video because there’s gonna be situations where people have no idea why a thing works sometimes and not other times, and clearing that up felt important. In a lot of situations 1 frame less probably doesn’t matter, but if you’re the kind of player that really likes going for frame-tight punishes it def will
Yes, useful for the future
Fantastic content as always, gonna save this for later!
Amazing video, thanks for making it! Lots of useful info here.
Wow, this is a great video! The effort in production is very apparent, and it's not often we get such accessible, in-depth explanations of one of the most complex, yet fundamental aspects of Melee.
Also did you say doc's nair just for the meme at 11:12 lmao
It’s a meme?? Lol I was being completely serious ahahaha
@@Radarssbm Yeah it's a meme when doc shows up/is mentioned to just unprompted say "did you know that doctor mario's nair gets stronger the longer it stays out???" since it's such a well-known silly melee fact haha
@@SSB_Seal it's the 'mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell' of melee
@@SSB_Seal"it's a reverse sex kick"
man i wish this video existed 8 years ago lol
my goat ty for this
great video.
then I just spent like 30 mins exploring my OoPowershield options with yoshi, just to remember that yoshi's powershield cant be cancelled at all :(
yeaaaahh this is in the spreadsheet but i forgot to mention it in the video
Great video! Lots of information told in a concise and engaging way! One small criticism, though. The color choice in your frame visualizer you use at about 4:00 and 21:00 is difficult to discern for colorblind people (or at least for me). I actually couldn't tell the last square was a different color until I took a color-picker to a screenshot. So if you use something similar in the future I recommend using a darker shade of green.
This isn’t something I can control unfortunately, or at least if I can, I’m not aware of how
Oh wait I thought you meant the hit box bubbles within the game, and not the frame stuff. Yep, definitely could’ve changed that, sorry about that! Will keep it in mind. Would different colours work better?
@@Radarssbm Yellow, green, and blue are fine together for the most part. You just need to up the contrast. I recommend doing it in grayscale first, then applying the color over top.
Yeah!
Great vid! Do stale moves reset when you respawn?
Yes! I might do a video on how stale moves work (would need to understand it more deeply than I do now) but the TLDR is this:
-resets after death
- stale queue is 9 moves long, each new move pushes old moves out of the queue.
-doing two moves in a row is more impactful than having them spaced out across the queue (as in you did shine 6 moves ago vs 2 shines in a row)
@@Radarssbm ah, interesting! Follow up question, where do you go to research this kind of stuff?
@@tiebex Usually it's a combination of things!
In this case, you can do testing in game, and you can use ikneedata's stale queue as a reference (go to ikneedata.com, click on the specific move, then experiment with the stale queue in the bottom left)
In general though, researching this stuff has been historically tricky, but the existence of sites like ikneedata, meleeframedata.com and 20XX/Uncle Punch make it soooo much easier.
Really hoping to help educate people on this stuff so we can see sick innovations in the game!
I think frame date another things could go through some standard fighting games standardization and probably be a lot better off for it
You've got startup active and recovery frames.
So you call it iasa but really it's just the first interruptible frame. So the frame right after the move Stops being active or the first recovery frame.
Something you could borrow from taking as well is s or basically if the move is done completely perfectly as if by a computer that's the amount of startup it has.
What you’re describing is not what IASA is though. It’s not the first frame after the move is done being active, it’s something entirely different lol.
It was cute
Could someone make this but for the new Smash Brothers?
I mean I'm from when melee came out so I guess I'm basically a smash Boomer these days but like
The local tournaments here don't play Street Fighter or tech and then they basically Play nothing but ssbu