"I do not believe in being constrained by directives that have nothing to do with science or the actual health of the woman." THANK YOU, DR. NATARAJAN!
Thanks to Sam Bee for making this story "a thing". Another important point is that, depending on where you live, a catholic facility may be the only game in town. You can't just walk across the street to another hospital. And, as this doctor recounts, trying to transport someone who is in the middle of a medical crisis can be very dangerous. I really don't see how anyone who advocates these barbaric practices can call themselves christian.
I live in one of the top 100 most populated cities in the US, and as I'm thinking about it... I think all of our hospitals are run by Catholics. Or, actually, one of them might be run by Protestants. But I can't think of a secular hospital in the entire city, and I can't believe it took me this long to realize it. I mean, I've never had to go in for women's health care or pregnancy or anything like that, so it never occurred to me. Now I wonder what kind of care I could expect in those instances. At the very least, I think I'll look into that locally just to stay informed.
It should not be against the church, but against hospitals that knowingly put patients' lives at risk. You cannot hold a religion responsible for something, only individuals.
Thank you, both to the doctor for speaking so candidly and with genuine concern for the wellbeing of her patients, and to Samantha Bee for providing the forum for her to speak.
thank you for sharing this. worldwide, we need to understand that our beliefs our our own, that we can cherish them and the people around us, without imposing mindless ridiculous boundaries and restrict others' right to choose.
Hear hear Dr. Natarajan, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment. As a physician as well I feel it is disgusting that such a burden of unscientific dogma from "ordained" administrators precludes us from doing what is right for our patients.
Is it also not a violation of the Hippocratic Oath; particularly in a circumstance like that described by Dr. Natajaran? Dogma was causing harm and contributing to the physical and mental detriment of the patient.
+RhondaH I live in Venezuela. we have different problems and I haven't heard of the catholic institution meddeling with the way we perform at hospitals. However I understand her angst in wanting to provide the best care for her patients without religion getting in the way, dictating rules. We have a crisis with shortage of supplies, sanitary conditions and even having enough colleagues who are well prepared because they have all left. We'll keep speaking up, always.
It is very brave to for a doctor to be coming forward with these comments. Thank you, Dr Rupa Natarajan! And thank you, Samantha Bee - you have been a voice of reason in the midst of the craziness we see happening in this US election.
Very good interview. Thanks to Sam Bee + co. for raising awareness of this horrible situation in Catholic churches and to Dr. Natarajan for speaking so humanely on the matter
this is so excellent. Both aesthetically (as a contrast to the typically firebomb ciritique of the show) and contentful. Thank you for producing this type of content every once in a while! (I say this as a male that find Full Frontal to be the most interesting place on TV today)
Sam Bee..I have been following your show from the day you launched. you have been doing a phenomenal job my friend. very heartening story and my heart goes to all the women who has to go through such nonsense based on religion
I'm glad Dr. Natarajan left and went on to be the doctor she knew she could and should be for her patients. And I appreciate her taking the time to tell her story.
Thank you, Samantha Bee, for bringing this to the public! I had a baby in a Catholic hospital via C-section at 36 years old and was denied a tubal ligation during the surgery because of their religious beliefs. I had no choice but to go to another facility 5 weeks later and undergo general anesthesia to get the procedure done. Thank you, Dr. Natarajan for speaking out!
I have such respect for Dr. Natarajan. She articulates the words and ethics of the Hippocratic oath that her and all the other med students who graduated with her said aloud, but it's so inspiring to hear from one who seems to remember what it all meant. I can only hope that if I ever need it, I can be treated by a physician with the integrity that Dr. Natarajan proved before she even finished residency.
Refusing treatment is a violation of the hippocratic oath, especially in a life or death situation. Refusing to allow necessary aid to be administered, for religious reasons, is discrimination, and is illegal. The hospitals that have these policies should lose their non-profit tax exemption status immediately !!
I thought doctors took an oath to save their patients, and the hospital should let them do their jobs. I never understand this society, where "religion" can surpass life and moral.
Slight rephrasing: the only way to make a normally good person do heinously immoral things while continuing all the while to think that they are a good person, is religion. People doing bad things for money will normally feel guilty if they are a generally decent person forced by circumstances to do something bad.
RhondaH And the worse part is that these good people think they are doing good things. You see Catholic church is arguing that they're just protecting women from "something evil". This sounds absurd to any sane person.
+ Victoria The Finch Well obviously this doctor didn't take an oath to save anyone's baby. She seems more offended that her right to perform an abortion on a living human being was denied.
I am an atheist, and I respect the right of freedom of religion. But this is too crazy, I think any religion do harmful actions towards innocent people in the name of God should be defined as cult or terrorist. I know sometimes there is a moral dilemma that people need to choose between saving the mom or saving the child. But that is the diction should be made by the family or medical professional, not by the government or by any religion organization.
Didn't know this about Catholic Hospitals. My wife and I chose to have our children at at Catholic hospital and we are not Catholic. Really changed my mind and taught me something. Thanks to the Full Frontal team.
This is unconscionable. Human beings like that 19 year old kid should not be put through such a difficult time when it is absolutely not her fault. Thanks Sam Bee for bringing this to light.
Thanks Samantha for bringing up this important issue. No one in the USA thinks much about the fact that hospitals are religious in a lot of cases and how this stands in the way of providing healthcare. Keep up the good fight!
I worked as a hospital chaplain, and we got many patients from the other hospital (catholic) that basically fit this exact story. My job was essentially to comfort the shell shocked parents who not only had to deal with the loss of their child but also with the completely unnecessary drama from anti abortion activists. It was upsetting to witness and, I have no doubt, worse to live through.
this physician spoke so well and these stories that Samantha bee has brought attention too really are quiet terrifying. as an aspiring physician, I'm glad I've been made more aware of what's going on with these hospitals. like this doctor, I want to be an advocate for my patients. give them choices with all the knowledge at my disposal. this is so sad to think that there are probably thousands of more women with stories like this and that these hospitals will continue to operate this way
Both are implied. Indeed, it isn't possible to HAVE freedom of religion without having freedom from religion. If other people are free to inflict their religious convictions on others, then isn't freedom of religion by definition.
@North: Learn to pay attention to what is being discussed. Nobody compared private Catholic hospitals to Public ones. The question was: Do Hospitals that adhere to a strict religious code and therefore provide fewer services charge their patients less, and the answer was no. Now, do those same hospitals charge the govt any less for their services (say, for taking on medicare or medicaid pts who don't have insurance) the answer is once again NO. You're the one who brought up public hospitals. And then patted yourself on the back for knowing the difference between public & private ones. Feel free to celebrate with a cookie.
/j/ catholic Hospitals have a shitton of crucifix hanging about them. Also, if you're an Atheist, you should feel a slight burning sensation, like you're about to burst out in flames whenever you enter one. /j/ The easiest way to figure that out is look them up online. There might even be a govt. website (fed. or state) that has infos on hospitals??? Or ask your family doctor, on the off chance they might know that kinda stuff. Other then that, maybe walk straight up to a hospital's front desk and ask them directly.
Sadly, this isn't just about Catholic run medical facilities. Take a look at the number of state laws created and enacted in the last few years preventing and/or serious manipulating information being shared with patients regarding family planning. Not to mention adding even more hurdles to the prescription of birth control and chemical abortifacients resulting in an increase in 2nd trimester (read: higher risk) medical terminations. Can't believe we've time-warpped back to the 70s. Or, forward to the Republic of Gilead, take your pick.
At any other hospital, a case like this could be sued for malpractice, but it is allowed because of religion...? And why are they allowed to subject others who may not be of the same faith to the standards of Catholocism? I can sort of understand refusing to supply birth control or something at a pharmacy or choosing to deny your cake baking services as a private business, but in a hospital? How are we allowing them to play with actual life and death like that and justify it with religion? That's messed up.
Makes me really angry that we allow this to happen!! Why isn't the medical boards doing anything? Why aren't licences of these hospitals being suspended? If someone opens up a Scientology hospital where the mandatory treatment for psyciatric patients is electroshock therapy - do we allow this too?? ARGH!!!
First of all, electroshock therapy is still in place and used on patients that can have depression or who are bipolar. Why isn't the medical board doing anything? Because it's legal.
I support your constitutionally-protected right to choose. I vote for candidates that vote pro-choice. I also strongly support that privately-owned hospital's right to create their own guidelines as they see fit. As well, I support her decision to not work there if she does not agree with those guidelines.
NorthernChev Yes I did read your post but as I have stated before freedom is important but when it comes at the risk of people dying or getting seriously hurt it just ridiculous we need to regulate this like we do for most other businesses. Plus why is the Hospital's freedom more important then the woman's the women is an actual person the hospital isn't.
Fox Face Oh, man. As a liberal, your comment about why (you think) the hospital's freedom is more important than the woman's concerns me greatly... You really need to read a little more on this topic, because we're not talking about something that is as easily defined and simple as you're making it. You're suggesting treading on some much larger ideals than just that. Do a little research on WHY it is important to safeguard EVERYONE's rights in this matter, then come back and we'll have this conversation. Because I'm not going to spend the next ten days trying to help you understand why. Trust me. I agree with you totally. But it is VERY important as to why you NEED to understand WHY. I say this with respect so don't take it wrong. Remember upholding personal freedoms is a liberal value... not a conservative one.
Great, take all the hospitals away from private hands and give us national health care. We don't need ancient nonsense dictating modern medicine any more than we need money blocking access. We would all be happier never dealing with privately owned hospitals and never ever dealing with health insurance companies or paying their profit margins again.
Maybe that is one of the reasons they were confined to the desert - and by this I don't mean Apfelstrudel. Why should I respect the mormon religion? Contempt is more appropriate. What worries me is the Mormon-mop: Orrin Hatch, Mike Pence and Mitt Romney - I don't see how a catholic or baptist can be enthused for that bunch of deplorable basket cases.
The Dark Ages never ended; society is still in the shadow of organized religion. Although I will say that the one silver lining to come from this Trump buffoon, is that for once the Republican presidential nominee is not a religious nut. I hope this is a sign that religion is fading from politics.
But unfortunately, his vice presidential pick, who may potentially be in charge of all foreign and domestic policy, is one of the biggest religious nutters out there...
I really thought this whole abortion argument would be behind us by now. Can we just make it about our right to privacy? That way, what you don't know, won't hurt you. I now know there's a lot of wisdom packed into that saying ( or maybe that's just the alcohol talkin').
avispartan117 Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I have an ethics degree from a Catholic University; your reply transported me back to my undergrad days :) It never failed to amaze me, in the saddest sort of way, what sort of harm and sometimes atrocities, are justifiable in moral theology by DDE. The issue with Thomism and Aristotelian ethics is that almost any act is justifiable based on the precept that every act is moral so long as the intention of the actor is deemed to be good or in service of a "right" principle regardless of the actual outcome or implications of said action.
Here we are in a universe that is 13.8 billion years old, on a planet that is at least 4 billion years old, and so many people still think that there is some validity to 2,000 year old mythology. It's sad.
If someone wants to build a hospital, they should build a hospital. If they want to build a church, they should build a church. Having both under the same roof is a very bad combination.
As per dictionary, each of these mean a different thing; but that's what it has come down to. Republicans = catholic = conservatives = racists = whites = trump.
I'm a Christian and this is disgusting. No one should suffer like this, and NO ONE should say that this is how my God would have them treat others. And if that's how they believe God would have us treat others - the same God who told us to love others and to be the advocate for the "least of these" - then they need to get the hell away from medicine
You are talking about an infintessimal percentage that this one case constitutes as do all medical necessity abortions. Secondly, it sounds like the baby aborted naturally so what's the problem? Thirdly, why did she go to that hospital? Fourthly, did somebody force you to work there?
The problem they are trying to bring to light is that this doctors patient was suffering, and risked death, when every medical professional involved knew the baby wasn't going to make it. The patient and the patients doctor assumed that if a hospital has a wing for reproductive services, that it can provide adequate reproductive services, at least enough that the patients life is not at risk.
Jane Lin someone with logic. why work for a Catholic hospital if you know what Catholics believe? I'm not blaming her. But she knew where she was working so...why is she surprised when these situations occur?
Q&I&J&N lol, That's it? "Logic?" Well, your logic is as threadbare as your soul, since she didn't choose to work there, she was assigned a few month rotation there as part of her OB/GYN residency at Tufts.
Religion and beliefs must never have primacy over science. As we can see doing so is catastrophic. Let doctors decide what has to be done with patients, not politicians or Evangelicals. Also, dump the guy who wants to take this into his own tiny hands. You know who I am talking about.
This doctor is apparently too young and inexperienced to know loopholes. I had a ob/gyn doctor that was affiliated with an Catholic hospital and I received birth control and even a partial hysterectomy (to prevent pregnancy). It's all in how the doctor decides to give reasons as to why something needs to be done. And if it needs to be recorded in any records at all. Yes it is sneaky and illegal, but a good doctor will do what needs to be done for the patient.
"I do not believe in being constrained by directives that have nothing to do with science or the actual health of the woman."
THANK YOU, DR. NATARAJAN!
These extended interviews are most welcome! Thank you, Full Frontal.
Thanks to Sam Bee for making this story "a thing".
Another important point is that, depending on where you live, a catholic facility may be the only game in town. You can't just walk across the street to another hospital. And, as this doctor recounts, trying to transport someone who is in the middle of a medical crisis can be very dangerous. I really don't see how anyone who advocates these barbaric practices can call themselves christian.
I live in one of the top 100 most populated cities in the US, and as I'm thinking about it... I think all of our hospitals are run by Catholics. Or, actually, one of them might be run by Protestants. But I can't think of a secular hospital in the entire city, and I can't believe it took me this long to realize it.
I mean, I've never had to go in for women's health care or pregnancy or anything like that, so it never occurred to me. Now I wonder what kind of care I could expect in those instances. At the very least, I think I'll look into that locally just to stay informed.
there should be a map, if not i'm sure will be out soon now, listing each hospital & religious puppet masters
This doctor is incredible, so inspiring.
I hope more and more women come forward with their story and file class action lawsuits against the church.
It should not be against the church, but against hospitals that knowingly put patients' lives at risk. You cannot hold a religion responsible for something, only individuals.
If the catholic church is running/owning the hospital, it's the church's fault.
What if the religion is an international business that owns, runs, and profits from facilities such as hospitals?
Thank you, both to the doctor for speaking so candidly and with genuine concern for the wellbeing of her patients, and to Samantha Bee for providing the forum for her to speak.
This hurts my heart
That just means you're human.
thank you for sharing this. worldwide, we need to understand that our beliefs our our own, that we can cherish them and the people around us, without imposing mindless ridiculous boundaries and restrict others' right to choose.
Hear hear Dr. Natarajan, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment. As a physician as well I feel it is disgusting that such a burden of unscientific dogma from "ordained" administrators precludes us from doing what is right for our patients.
Is it also not a violation of the Hippocratic Oath; particularly in a circumstance like that described by Dr. Natajaran? Dogma was causing harm and contributing to the physical and mental detriment of the patient.
Thank you Dr. Rupa Natarajan and Sam Bee!
Thank you Dr. Natarajan for your testimony and your advocacy.
What a perfect and matter of fact video. Keep them coming.
Thank you for this. I feel for her, as a doctor myself.
As a doctor, please speak out as often as you ca on this issue. Your voice is louder than your patients' voices.
+RhondaH I live in Venezuela. we have different problems and I haven't heard of the catholic institution meddeling with the way we perform at hospitals. However I understand her angst in wanting to provide the best care for her patients without religion getting in the way, dictating rules. We have a crisis with shortage of supplies, sanitary conditions and even having enough colleagues who are well prepared because they have all left. We'll keep speaking up, always.
It is very brave to for a doctor to be coming forward with these comments. Thank you, Dr Rupa Natarajan! And thank you, Samantha Bee - you have been a voice of reason in the midst of the craziness we see happening in this US election.
Very good interview. Thanks to Sam Bee + co. for raising awareness of this horrible situation in Catholic churches and to Dr. Natarajan for speaking so humanely on the matter
Thank you, Samantha and Dr. Natarajan.
Sam, keep up the good work, we are with you :)
this is so excellent. Both aesthetically (as a contrast to the typically firebomb ciritique of the show) and contentful. Thank you for producing this type of content every once in a while! (I say this as a male that find Full Frontal to be the most interesting place on TV today)
I love the format, wherein the interviewer didn't ask any questions felt refreshing and put the core issue right in the centre.
Sam Bee..I have been following your show from the day you launched. you have been doing a phenomenal job my friend. very heartening story and my heart goes to all the women who has to go through such nonsense based on religion
I'm glad Dr. Natarajan left and went on to be the doctor she knew she could and should be for her patients. And I appreciate her taking the time to tell her story.
Thank you, Samantha Bee, for bringing this to the public! I had a baby in a Catholic hospital via C-section at 36 years old and was denied a tubal ligation during the surgery because of their religious beliefs. I had no choice but to go to another facility 5 weeks later and undergo general anesthesia to get the procedure done. Thank you, Dr. Natarajan for speaking out!
how is being catholic an excuse for medical negligence? If you can't provide proper medical care, you should not be running a hospital.
I have such respect for Dr. Natarajan. She articulates the words and ethics of the Hippocratic oath that her and all the other med students who graduated with her said aloud, but it's so inspiring to hear from one who seems to remember what it all meant. I can only hope that if I ever need it, I can be treated by a physician with the integrity that Dr. Natarajan proved before she even finished residency.
Refusing treatment is a violation of the hippocratic oath, especially in a life or death situation. Refusing to allow necessary aid to be administered, for religious reasons, is discrimination, and is illegal. The hospitals that have these policies should lose their non-profit tax exemption status immediately !!
I thought doctors took an oath to save their patients, and the hospital should let them do their jobs. I never understand this society, where "religion" can surpass life and moral.
Victoria
The only thing that can make a normally good person actually do heinously immoral things is religion.
money ?
Slight rephrasing: the only way to make a normally good person do heinously immoral things while continuing all the while to think that they are a good person, is religion. People doing bad things for money will normally feel guilty if they are a generally decent person forced by circumstances to do something bad.
RhondaH And the worse part is that these good people think they are doing good things. You see Catholic church is arguing that they're just protecting women from "something evil". This sounds absurd to any sane person.
+ Victoria The Finch
Well obviously this doctor didn't take an oath to save anyone's baby. She seems more offended that her right to perform an abortion on a living human being was denied.
This video needs to go viral
thank you Samantha Bee you're doing all of the amazing interviews that you do and allowing people to see this doctor speak
Thank you for the work you do, Dr. Natarajan, in preserving women's' reproductive health, their physical health, and their emotional well being.
When the baby has no chance of life, pro-life means nothing.
Plus a woman's right to make health decisions for herself is no one's business but her own. Period.
It's disgusting how they give more rights to a dead body than a living person.
Dark Koi - Oh, hoho! You've made the common, yet regrettable, mistake of thinking women are people too.
I am an atheist, and I respect the right of freedom of religion.
But this is too crazy, I think any religion do harmful actions towards innocent people in the name of God should be defined as cult or terrorist.
I know sometimes there is a moral dilemma that people need to choose between saving the mom or saving the child.
But that is the diction should be made by the family or medical professional, not by the government or by any religion organization.
Didn't know this about Catholic Hospitals. My wife and I chose to have our children at at Catholic hospital and we are not Catholic. Really changed my mind and taught me something. Thanks to the Full Frontal team.
Thank you for shining a light on this. ❤
Wow, just incredible that in this day and age, with such a litigious society, this could be allowed to happen.
Government and religion does not have the right to dictate what women should do with our bodies.
Great work as always 👍👍👍👏
This is unconscionable. Human beings like that 19 year old kid should not be put through such a difficult time when it is absolutely not her fault. Thanks Sam Bee for bringing this to light.
Thanks Samantha for bringing up this important issue. No one in the USA thinks much about the fact that hospitals are religious in a lot of cases and how this stands in the way of providing healthcare. Keep up the good fight!
I worked as a hospital chaplain, and we got many patients from the other hospital (catholic) that basically fit this exact story. My job was essentially to comfort the shell shocked parents who not only had to deal with the loss of their child but also with the completely unnecessary drama from anti abortion activists. It was upsetting to witness and, I have no doubt, worse to live through.
I think it is great, that you are sharing this kind of stories! It's time to reduces churches influence in our daily and public life.
How can I check whether a hospital have this catholic directives or not? Is there a list going around
this physician spoke so well and these stories that Samantha bee has brought attention too really are quiet terrifying.
as an aspiring physician, I'm glad I've been made more aware of what's going on with these hospitals. like this doctor, I want to be an advocate for my patients. give them choices with all the knowledge at my disposal.
this is so sad to think that there are probably thousands of more women with stories like this and that these hospitals will continue to operate this way
These stories are so infuriating and heartbreaking.
Our Bill of Rights declares 'freedom of religion' I SAY YOU SHOULD READ THAT as 'freedom FROM religion'
Why not both?
Both are implied. Indeed, it isn't possible to HAVE freedom of religion without having freedom from religion.
If other people are free to inflict their religious convictions on others, then isn't freedom of religion by definition.
Religion should not be involved in the medical industry at all for any reason. We need to put health and safety first and foremost.
Do patients at Catholic hospitals pay less for this constrained care?
Nope. But the hospitals make just as much from Govt funds. And often, they are the only ones available to a particular geographic location.
GrizzleyBruin You are misled on the equality of government funding for privately-owned hospitals vs public.
@North: Learn to pay attention to what is being discussed. Nobody compared private Catholic hospitals to Public ones. The question was: Do Hospitals that adhere to a strict religious code and therefore provide fewer services charge their patients less, and the answer was no.
Now, do those same hospitals charge the govt any less for their services (say, for taking on medicare or medicaid pts who don't have insurance) the answer is once again NO.
You're the one who brought up public hospitals. And then patted yourself on the back for knowing the difference between public & private ones. Feel free to celebrate with a cookie.
GrizzleyBruin that was not what was said. Read your comment again.
Cookie, north. And leave the policy discussions to the grown ups.
BRAVO~!!!!
If your patient has a seizure, make sure you call the exorcist on staff.
So are there any outlawed procedures for men at Catholic hospitals, other than a vasectomy (not usually done on an emergency basis.?
She has my sympathies.
How do you figure out whether your hospital is a catholic hospital?
Good question, I'd like to know as well because I only know one of the local hospitals here is Catholic because my mom worked their briefly.
/j/ catholic Hospitals have a shitton of crucifix hanging about them. Also, if you're an Atheist, you should feel a slight burning sensation, like you're about to burst out in flames whenever you enter one. /j/
The easiest way to figure that out is look them up online. There might even be a govt. website (fed. or state) that has infos on hospitals??? Or ask your family doctor, on the off chance they might know that kinda stuff. Other then that, maybe walk straight up to a hospital's front desk and ask them directly.
in Montana they are all named after saints, patrick, Vincent, etc. after these vids I will never go to one again.
Sadly, this isn't just about Catholic run medical facilities. Take a look at the number of state laws created and enacted in the last few years preventing and/or serious manipulating information being shared with patients regarding family planning. Not to mention adding even more hurdles to the prescription of birth control and chemical abortifacients resulting in an increase in 2nd trimester (read: higher risk) medical terminations.
Can't believe we've time-warpped back to the 70s. Or, forward to the Republic of Gilead, take your pick.
the doctor says she was prohibited from doing this at the hospital. what does that mean, exactly? she would have been fired? could have been sued?
At any other hospital, a case like this could be sued for malpractice, but it is allowed because of religion...? And why are they allowed to subject others who may not be of the same faith to the standards of Catholocism? I can sort of understand refusing to supply birth control or something at a pharmacy or choosing to deny your cake baking services as a private business, but in a hospital? How are we allowing them to play with actual life and death like that and justify it with religion? That's messed up.
Makes me really angry that we allow this to happen!! Why isn't the medical boards doing anything? Why aren't licences of these hospitals being suspended? If someone opens up a Scientology hospital where the mandatory treatment for psyciatric patients is electroshock therapy - do we allow this too?? ARGH!!!
First of all, electroshock therapy is still in place and used on patients that can have depression or who are bipolar.
Why isn't the medical board doing anything? Because it's legal.
I support your constitutionally-protected right to choose. I vote for candidates that vote pro-choice. I also strongly support that privately-owned hospital's right to create their own guidelines as they see fit. As well, I support her decision to not work there if she does not agree with those guidelines.
NorthernChev and exactly how many times have you been pregnant?
Those hospitals are dealing with people's LIVES this isn't just some baker who doesn't want to bake a cake this has serious consequences.
Fox Face Read my post again. I don't agree with their policy. But I most definitely support the freedom from law that allows them to do it.
NorthernChev Yes I did read your post but as I have stated before freedom is important but when it comes at the risk of people dying or getting seriously hurt it just ridiculous we need to regulate this like we do for most other businesses. Plus why is the Hospital's freedom more important then the woman's the women is an actual person the hospital isn't.
Fox Face Oh, man. As a liberal, your comment about why (you think) the hospital's freedom is more important than the woman's concerns me greatly... You really need to read a little more on this topic, because we're not talking about something that is as easily defined and simple as you're making it. You're suggesting treading on some much larger ideals than just that. Do a little research on WHY it is important to safeguard EVERYONE's rights in this matter, then come back and we'll have this conversation. Because I'm not going to spend the next ten days trying to help you understand why. Trust me. I agree with you totally. But it is VERY important as to why you NEED to understand WHY. I say this with respect so don't take it wrong. Remember upholding personal freedoms is a liberal value... not a conservative one.
This is what happens when you allow a 2000 year old book to apply to modern day society and medicine.....unbelievable!!!!
How about ethical doctors don't work at Catholic hospitals ever? How is this even ethical? And thanks, Sam Bee. Keep this up!
I'm impressed, it's about time we stopped using religion when it comes to a patients life.
Great, take all the hospitals away from private hands and give us national health care. We don't need ancient nonsense dictating modern medicine any more than we need money blocking access. We would all be happier never dealing with privately owned hospitals and never ever dealing with health insurance companies or paying their profit margins again.
But she survived. No harm done. God's will. /s
-Iscovimi Garga
/s for sarcasm?
yes
How is this legal?! How are these hospitals not being sued?!
Thats my Doctor!
The problem is that according to medical ethics that is malpractice.
Maybe that is one of the reasons they were confined to the desert - and by this I don't mean Apfelstrudel. Why should I respect the mormon religion? Contempt is more appropriate. What worries me is the Mormon-mop: Orrin Hatch, Mike Pence and Mitt Romney - I don't see how a catholic or baptist can be enthused for that bunch of deplorable basket cases.
RUPA FOR PRESIDENT!
The Dark Ages never ended; society is still in the shadow of organized religion. Although I will say that the one silver lining to come from this Trump buffoon, is that for once the Republican presidential nominee is not a religious nut. I hope this is a sign that religion is fading from politics.
But unfortunately, his vice presidential pick, who may potentially be in charge of all foreign and domestic policy, is one of the biggest religious nutters out there...
How have Catholic hospitals not been shut down or sued for malpractice. If this would happen at any other hospital it would have been shut down.
separation of church and hospital
I really thought this whole abortion argument would be behind us by now. Can we just make it about our right to privacy? That way, what you don't know, won't hurt you. I now know there's a lot of wisdom packed into that saying ( or maybe that's just the alcohol talkin').
This is so heartbreaking and absolutely disgusting. How does the Hippocratic Oath fit into the Catholic Medical System?
avispartan117 Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I have an ethics degree from a Catholic University; your reply transported me back to my undergrad days :) It never failed to amaze me, in the saddest sort of way, what sort of harm and sometimes atrocities, are justifiable in moral theology by DDE. The issue with Thomism and Aristotelian ethics is that almost any act is justifiable based on the precept that every act is moral so long as the intention of the actor is deemed to be good or in service of a "right" principle regardless of the actual outcome or implications of said action.
This is cold, unfeeling evil. I wouldn't wish a Catholic hospital on my worst enemy.
In the end, we will all face God to answer for our actions.
No, no we won't. Btw the jungle book has a talking snake too. Cool story
Jason Luong
Yeah... no
Who is God? Some mental idol, or concept that you have created in your mind.
And now for the punchline. We pay buckets of tax dollars for this. Faith Based Initiatives folks.
you're lucky this patient didn't die. in ireland, women do die for exactly this reason.
Here we are in a universe that is 13.8 billion years old, on a planet that is at least 4 billion years old, and so many people still think that there is some validity to 2,000 year old mythology. It's sad.
If someone wants to build a hospital, they should build a hospital. If they want to build a church, they should build a church. Having both under the same roof is a very bad combination.
"Dismayed" is right!
I'm currently attending a religion class in college where the professor says that catholics have no conflict with science...
Ok. And what do YOU think about it?
Obviously that's not true. I'm just surprised they think they can convince people otherwise when stuff like this is still going on.
Watch it turn out that this same Catholic hospital has no problem prescribing erectile dysfunction medication.
Well done Catholicism! Truly, this is f*cked up. If I was young, I know how I'd vote. As a dedicated citizen of world health, same vote.
This has been known for years.
As a veterinarian, we don't even treat dogs this way.
Religious supremacy is just as destructive as racial supremacy. Glad to see people waking up to that fact!
in god u beleive.
ignorance is the root of all evil.
This is basically how Ireland's entire health system functions. :(
God Bless amerika!
can she work someplace else?
MariPili Carrasco she says it in the interview it was during her residency. So basically she was still "in school".
thanx... missed it...
This. Just this.
god this is horrific
Is having babies more important than staying alive for the ones you already have? Are babies more important than Pregnant Women?
As per dictionary, each of these mean a different thing; but that's what it has come down to. Republicans = catholic = conservatives = racists = whites = trump.
I'm a Christian and this is disgusting. No one should suffer like this, and NO ONE should say that this is how my God would have them treat others. And if that's how they believe God would have us treat others - the same God who told us to love others and to be the advocate for the "least of these" - then they need to get the hell away from medicine
All unwanted babies should be given into the loving arms of priests.
Hey now that is a bit unfair to the babies...
Edward Rhoads Why? Love is love, ask Jesus, or more precisely the God's representatives, the priests. They know all about loving children.
I'd wager that the majority of pedophiles aren't pro-choice.
You are talking about an infintessimal percentage that this one case constitutes as do all medical necessity abortions. Secondly, it sounds like the baby aborted naturally so what's the problem? Thirdly, why did she go to that hospital? Fourthly, did somebody force you to work there?
The problem they are trying to bring to light is that this doctors patient was suffering, and risked death, when every medical professional involved knew the baby wasn't going to make it. The patient and the patients doctor assumed that if a hospital has a wing for reproductive services, that it can provide adequate reproductive services, at least enough that the patients life is not at risk.
Why work for a hospital like this if you don't agree with their protocol?
You're seriously blaming the doctor?
What species are you?
Jane Lin someone with logic. why work for a Catholic hospital if you know what Catholics believe? I'm not blaming her. But she knew where she was working so...why is she surprised when these situations occur?
Evelyn Vaya I am aware. I've worked at a hospital. and no, she isn't there anymore.
Maybe it was the best job she could get at the time, and she didn't truly grasp how dangerous those protocols are.
Q&I&J&N
lol, That's it? "Logic?" Well, your logic is as threadbare as your soul, since she didn't choose to work there, she was assigned a few month rotation there as part of her OB/GYN residency at Tufts.
wow she doesnt have an accent
That is racist...
Religion and beliefs must never have primacy over science. As we can see doing so is catastrophic. Let doctors decide what has to be done with patients, not politicians or Evangelicals. Also, dump the guy who wants to take this into his own tiny hands. You know who I am talking about.
This doctor is apparently too young and inexperienced to know loopholes. I had a ob/gyn doctor that was affiliated with an Catholic hospital and I received birth control and even a partial hysterectomy (to prevent pregnancy). It's all in how the doctor decides to give reasons as to why something needs to be done. And if it needs to be recorded in any records at all. Yes it is sneaky and illegal, but a good doctor will do what needs to be done for the patient.
it's a Catholic hospital, first thing u should try is prayer :)